Hypothetically speaking....

by lcombs 70 replies
You're holding onto the ledge of sanity by your fingertips.

Do you hang on and try to pull yourself up off the ledge?

Or, do you simply let go and give up a losing battle?
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    While you'd hope that people would try to pull themselves up, too often the decision comes down to is there more perceived pain up or down and then they act accordingly.

    That answer is about the big issues - life and death types.

    Other types of insanity such as going around in circles doing the same thing and getting the same rotten results in business, on the job, in relationships, etc. the better answer may be to let go. And in many cases letting go may be the ONLY sane response.

    Mark

    Originally Posted by lcombs View Post

    You're holding onto the ledge of sanity by your fingertips.

    Do you hang on and try to pull yourself up off the ledge?

    Or, do you simply let go and give up a losing battle?
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  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    Originally Posted by lcombs View Post

    You're holding onto the ledge of sanity by your fingertips.

    Do you hang on and try to pull yourself up off the ledge?

    Or, do you simply let go and give up a losing battle?
    I can only speak for myself.

    I'd pull myself up. I'vs seen the result of letting go. Not for me.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      I can only speak for myself.

      I'd pull myself up. I'vs seen the result of letting go. Not for me.
      Um, Claude, I hate to tell you this, but I witnessed your incident. You weren't hanging from the cliff of sanity. You casually walked up to it and swan dove over the side.

      Everything else is just an illusion.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sarevok
    I'd wait for Domingo Montoya to throw me a rope.



    (Were I on the Cliffs of insanity).

    But... That would be inconceivable.
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  • Profile picture of the author Halcyon
    Hard to say without knowing the facts.

    But a losing battle does not always mean defeat. Sometimes we need to reassess our strategy and reengage from a different vantage point. So letting go may free your hands to grab that big branch right underneath.

    But IMHO any one who still questions their sanity, is perfectly sane. So I wouldn't worry too much. Plus sanity is over rated and limiting.
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  • Profile picture of the author Anne0521
    Hmmmm.....It all depends on the situation. Sometimes the mind wants to fight but the body can't. Sometimes circumstances can affect your choice.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Sometimes . . . I wonder which side of the line I'm on. There are things in the world that seem crazy to me, but are, apparently, regarded as normal.
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  • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
    Originally Posted by lcombs View Post

    You're holding onto the ledge of sanity by your fingertips.

    Do you hang on and try to pull yourself up off the ledge?

    Or, do you simply let go and give up a losing battle?
    If your truly losing your sanity ... do you even know you are?
    Do insane people know they are insane? ( that is a real question ... do they? )
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

      If your truly losing your sanity ... do you even know you are?
      Do insane people know they are insane? ( that is a real question ... do they? )
      Sometimes; My brother was schizophrenic. Part of him knew that the voices were coming from him. But it didn't matter. He still heard them. They still told him to do strange and dangerous things. When he was in his late teens, he started showing signs of being disconnected. I would talk to him, and intellectually he knew that his behavior wasn't normal. But that soon passed. And he couldn't tell the difference between illusion and reality.

      He simply saw the world in a different way. And there was no convincing him that his view was skewed.

      I agree, that if you question your sanity, you're still sane. But you can have mental problems and still be sane. Depression is real, but you can still reason.
      You can have a very strong phobia, and know that it's baseless...but you still have it.


      But the people that are in hospitals? I suspect they don't know that their worldview is way off.

      That's a guess.
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    • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
      Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

      If your truly losing your sanity ... do you even know you are?
      Do insane people know they are insane? ( that is a real question ... do they? )
      It's a very good question. Very important to distinguish awareness.

      I think in rare instances - such as schizophrenia -people
      do not know they are insane. My nephew has schizophrenia.
      Onset was when he was about 25. (Very bright guy. Working his first job
      after college. Headed for Law School...) During his first episode, he
      tore up a train station and got arrested because he thought
      "they" were after him. When beginning to explore his condition,
      he would insist that if a character in a book had his name, then
      the book was about him. You could not convince him of the
      coincidence.

      In the majority of other instances, people are conscious of what
      they are thinking and doing. And they use crazy verbal or physical
      behavior as a way to manipulate, intimidate, abuse, or otherwise
      get their way. This is why it is very important to distinguish the
      awareness and consciousness of what someone is thinking and doing.

      For example: If you become aware that someone is intentionally cruel
      to you, then it's time to end the relationship and stop excusing the alcohol,
      or saying "that's just how they are", or they are just crazy...

      In other cases, you can call their bluff and stop their manipulation.

      Dan
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

        It's a very good question. Very important to distinguish awareness.

        I think in rare instances - such as schizophrenia -people
        do not know they are insane. My nephew has schizophrenia.
        Onset was when he was about 25. (Very bright guy. Working his first job
        after college. Headed for Law School...) During his first episode, he
        tore up a train station and got arrested because he thought
        "they" were after him. When beginning to explore his condition,
        he would insist that if a character in a book had his name, then
        the book was about him. You could not convince him of the
        coincidence.
        My brother was popular in school. Bright, a good kid. A loyal little brother.

        My brother started showing signs when he was about 21. He would think the people on TV were talking to him. He would think people around town were saying bad things about him, and he would just punch them. He got arrested many times.

        Once, he went into a church and (If I remember) threatened everyone, and had to be arrested.

        We lived in a very small town. I had already moved away. Almost all of this was kept from me by my parents. (The arrests and crimes) I found out when I read a scrapbook my mom kept of all the news stories of my brother...the local crazy.

        When he was alive, for some reason, he would hit me repeatedly when he saw me. Not playfully, but trying to hurt me. The last time I saw him, he hit my wife in the chest. We had to leave (after my Dad convinced me not to hit him).

        That's the last time I saw my brother. A week later he was found robbed, and beaten to death.

        A very real threat to my parents, and a danger to others.

        I didn't know about most of it until my mom showed me that scrapbook years later. He had a few moments over the years where he might say to me "Those voices aren't real, are they?". Imagine hearing that.

        And then he would go back to claiming he could read my mind, and that the tree outside was after him. He lived with my parents, and a few tolerant relatives, the rest of his life. What a hell it must have been for both him and my parents.

        Sorry, sometimes these things just hit me.
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        • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          My brother was popular in school. Bright, a good kid. A loyal little brother.

          My brother started showing signs when he was about 21. He would think the people on TV were talking to him. He would think people around town were saying bad things about him, and he would just punch them. He got arrested many times.

          Once, he went into a church and (If I remember) threatened everyone, and had to be arrested.

          We lived in a very small town. I had already moved away. Almost all of this was kept from me by my parents. (The arrests and crimes) I found out when I read a scrapbook my mom kept of all the news stories of my brother...the local crazy.

          When he was alive, for some reason, he would hit me repeatedly when he saw me. Not playfully, but trying to hurt me. The last time I saw him, he hit my wife in the chest. We had to leave (after my Dad convinced me not to hit him).

          That's the last time I saw my brother. A week later he was found robbed, and beaten to death.

          A very real threat to my parents, and a danger to others.

          I didn't know about most of it until my mom showed me that scrapbook years later. He had a few moments over the years where he might say to me "Those voices aren't real, are they?". Imagine hearing that.

          And then he would go back to claiming he could read my mind, and that the tree outside was after him. He lived with my parents, and a few tolerant relatives, the rest of his life. What a hell it must have been for both him and my parents.

          Sorry, sometimes these things just hit me.

          Now I feel bad about the joke I made. However, now I know why we get along so well. We have a lot in common.
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

            Now I feel bad about the joke I made. However, now I know why we get along so well. We have a lot in common.
            Please don't feel bad. It wasn't until after I posted it that I thought I might be ruining the flow.

            It was years ago, now...and everyone has at least one story like that.
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            • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              Please don't feel bad. It wasn't until after I posted it that I thought I might be ruining the flow.

              It was years ago, now...and everyone has at least one story like that.

              Oh, don't worry. I didn't feel that bad.
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              • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
                Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

                Oh, don't worry. I didn't feel that bad.
                Claude, neither does your other brother Dan.

                Respect you, yes, but as Richard alluded about
                skeered. No. Certain I could outrun you for at least 100
                feet in Ohio, and at least 200 feet up here at 8500 feet.

                Dan
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                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                  Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

                  Claude, neither does your other brother Dan.

                  Respect you, yes, but as Richard alluded about
                  skeered. No. Certain I could outrun you for at least 100
                  feet in Ohio, and at least 200 feet up here at 8500 feet.

                  Dan
                  You can run? Ahhh, those were the days.
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                  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
                    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                    You can run? Ahhh, those were the days.
                    I did write that I could run. But, it's the internet.
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                • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
                  Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

                  Claude, neither does your other brother Dan.

                  Respect you, yes, but as Richard alluded about
                  skeered. No. Certain I could outrun you for at least 100
                  feet in Ohio, and at least 200 feet up here at 8500 feet.

                  Dan
                  But Dan, Ip man could do those flying jump things. You would run and Claude would simply levitate in front of you.

                  I agree though, I'm sure you could outrun me to most things.

                  If it was get to a beer though, I'd take anyone on. Usain Bolt wouldn't know what had happened.
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                  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
                    Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

                    But Dan, Ip man could do those flying jump things. You would run and Claude would simply levitate in front of you.

                    I agree though, I'm sure you could outrun me to most things.

                    If it was get to a beer though, I'd take anyone on. Usain Bolt wouldn't know what had happened.
                    Shhh, master's can't do those levitation jump things over 8000 feet because the air is
                    too thin. (And, for some reason chocolate and ice cream have no calories over 8000 feet.)
                    In Claude's case, because he does not believe in Kung Fu magic stuff, he can't do the jump things anywhere. So, I think I'm safe.

                    They serve beer 25 feet from me and I don't like beer, so you can walk over there.

                    Dan
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                    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

                      Shhh, master's can't do those levitation jump things over 8000 feet because the air is
                      too thin. (And, for some reason chocolate and ice cream have no calories over 8000 feet.)
                      In Claude's case, because he does not believe in Kung Fu magic stuff, he can't do the jump things anywhere. So, I think I'm safe.

                      They serve beer 25 feet from me and I don't like beer, so you can walk over there.

                      Dan
                      When will those flatlanders learn?
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                    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
                      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

                      Shhh, master's can't do those levitation jump things over 8000 feet because the air is
                      too thin.
                      But it's a film so it must be true. Hollywood said so. Or was it China?

                      In Claude's case, because he does not believe in Kung Fu magic stuff, he can't do the jump things anywhere. So, I think I'm safe.
                      Yes I think you're right. Don't believe in magic, you don't get magic. Don't believe in Santa and you wind up getting presents from the wife.

                      They serve beer 25 feet from me and I don't like beer
                      Now you're just trying to make me feel jealous.....and come to terms with the reality that in life, the resources we need, are always in front of people who don't bloody well need them.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

                      In Claude's case, because he does not believe in Kung Fu magic stuff, he can't do the jump things anywhere. So, I think I'm safe.

                      Dan
                      Dan; When I was 18 years old (1973) it was the year that Kung Fu came to America. I remember getting sooo excited to see Five Fingers Of Death at the theater. It was the worst kind of Kung Fu movie. But I had no idea. I thought everything was real. I started taking Kung Fu, hoping to develop those skills (Like leaping across a lake, running on water). My instructor had to put up with every new student's fantasy. Most quit after a week, because it was really just a lot of hard work.

                      When I was a teenager, I also tried to levitate. I mean I spent a few years...trying all sorts of stupid ways to make it happen. Bought books on it...meditated....

                      What a silly young man I was. But I was raised by a mother that believed in demons and thought witches were real. So it took awhile for my brain to adapt to reality.


                      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                      I live in the country - 3 neighbor women. They all do psychotropic drugs and they are getting crazier by the week.
                      Sal; Um...move.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
                        Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

                        @HeySal, Dennis - At least where I live a lot of little off characters move to the country because they can't handle the city. Astonishing to me is that most of the 20 somethings I've met in my county have or have had meth problems.
                        Dan - There's meth here, but nothing like that. Most people, young or old, haven't tried it (guessing of course). Do you live in a city? I've got cousins in Colorado Springs, and a friends in Denver and Rocky Ford. You near any of those places?


                        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                        There's one couple out here that are sane. They are rarely home, but I get to talk to them periodically and it's a damn thrill and a half.
                        We've got our share of looney tunes, but from what I've seen most of them live in the towns and the country folk are normal ... mostly.


                        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                        What a silly young man I was. But I was raised by a mother that believed in demons and thought witches were real. So it took awhile for my brain to adapt to reality.
                        Well, uh ... never mind.
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        • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
          Sorry to hear about your Brother Claude.

          Typically, people with schizophrenia don't go around hitting people (etc.) They're more a danger to themselves than anything else.

          And there are plenty of “sane” people that assault people and break the law.
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          • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
            I think the biggest issue is defining insane, or at least putting a stick in the ground and saying "This is where it begins".

            Schizophrenics that hear voices in our culture are blessed witch doctors with connections to the spirit world in others.

            Are eccentrics really just eccentric?

            Some could argue you have to be bonkers just to be happy in this loopy old world.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Oh I'd have to just get in off that ledge immediately. Ledges drive me insane.

    Seriously, though - just let go? Um...........is that really an option? How do you do that? You just say, "okay, sane is too hard so I'm just gonna be crazy now? I don't get it. Do people actually KNOW when they are truly going insane? I don't think it's really a "choice".

    This is a very strange conversation.
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

      If your truly losing your sanity ... do you even know you are?
      Do insane people know they are insane? ( that is a real question ... do they? )
      I think I can answer that for you.

      I was in a car accident when I was 18 and got a closed head injury. I was in a coma for a week. When I sort of regained consciousness, I could hear the doctor and nurse talking but I couldn't see or move. It was like the only thing I could do was hear. I didn't remember what had happened to me or know where I was. I seriously wondered if I had gone crazy.

      When I completely came around, I told the doctor what happened and what I was thinking. He told me that if I could reason enough to wonder if I was crazy, then I wasn't. He said crazy people don't know they are crazy, they don't even consider or question it.

      That is what I was told anyway.

      Terra
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      • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
        Originally Posted by lcombs View Post

        You're holding onto the ledge of sanity by your fingertips.

        Do you hang on and try to pull yourself up off the ledge?

        Or, do you simply let go and give up a losing battle?

        Hmm, been there done that, and used every trick in the book to figure out how to scale the brick wall.


        Or l bought the biggest block of Chocolate l could find, to munch on, and researched a promising area, l thought was a waste of time, at the time, (l really was on the edge after 5 years of brick wall headbutting).

        That was after trying something, that proved to be too difficult and slow to be viable. Well many things, that is why l was on the edge emotionally!


        Then l hit the jackpot, and moved into something new, that l could do myself, and l enjoyed doing, and was substantially quicker and easier than what l was doing.


        If you are on the edge then you are most likely on the verge of finding a way through the wall, you just need to keep your sanity in the meantime! :rolleyes:

        A block of Chocolate usually helps me, or a big piece of Chocolate cake if l get really depressed!

        Shane
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    Not sure what I'd do. But if I did let go I'd expect an open-bed truck full of pillows or marshmallows or Big Beautiful Bouncy women would be happening by at just the right moment.
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    • Profile picture of the author Horny Devil
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      Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

      I'd expect an open-bed truck full of pillows or marshmallows Big Beautiful Bouncy women would be happening by at just the right moment.
      The marshmallows bit I can understand, but the other . . .well . . I never knew you were that way inclined. Still, to each his own.

      Enjoy . . .

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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Originally Posted by lcombs View Post

    You're holding onto the ledge of sanity by your fingertips.

    Do you hang on and try to pull yourself up off the ledge?

    Or, do you simply let go and give up a losing battle?
    Sorry for the double post, but I think I have two separate
    and equally important points. (At least in my mind, so to speak. LOL)

    If you're not talking about a disease such as schizophrenia, or true
    sociopathic stuff, then I think it is time to pull back and isolate
    the things that are driving you crazy. See the trees and pieces
    and not the whole, overwhelming forest. Pull yourself up.

    Then, it's time to prioritize and take action on those items.
    Maybe change your reaction. Maybe end a relationship.
    Maybe change your job, or business or services you offer...
    Maybe some items you do "let go and let God" (or the equivalent
    in your belief system).

    The power does lie in your hands and your decisions as to what you are going
    to do about your situations.

    Dan
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  • Profile picture of the author ThomM
    Originally Posted by lcombs View Post

    You're holding onto the ledge of sanity by your fingertips.
    I fell off that ledge years ago
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    • Profile picture of the author lcombs
      Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

      I fell off that ledge years ago
      Oh yeah. I've been telling people for years; "Don't put 'away' unless I get violent.":p
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      To answer your question, Larry...

      When my kids were little, they would "Mom, Mom, Momma, Momma, Mommy" me to death when I was on the phone, or answering the front door for a delivery or just otherwise preoccupied with something. I felt like I was on the edge of the ledge and really just wanted to scream at them. But I didn't want to crush their little spirits or hurt their feelings so I devised a method that worked for me.

      To keep me from falling over the edge, I just would go, "Whoop, whoop, whoop" very loudly, like a warning signal. They would say, "Oh no! She's gonna blow!", start laughing and run down the hall towards their rooms.

      It was a fun way to let them know that I had just about had it with them and they thought it was a fun game and stayed away for a bit. It worked for both them and me and allowed all of us to keep our sanity, lol.

      Terra
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      • Profile picture of the author Horny Devil
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        Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post


        I just would go, "Whoop, whoop, whoop" very loudly . . .
        I used to play at submarines as well when I was little.
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  • Profile picture of the author lcombs
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I had a neighbor who went severely schitzo in her early teens. She was a mess. Would drop and pray every time a red car passed by (it was during the cold war). Went from shy to overly open seemingly overnight. She was like that for years.

    I saw her as an adult - had gotten married and told me that her problems were due to a nerve that got pinched when her Dentist put braces on her? Didn't always swallow that, and not sure if she was on medication or if she had actually gotten better. Seeing someone for a few hours after many years didn't offer that kind of clues. I've always wondered, though, if it was the truth - if something like that could actually happen.

    She was brought up strict - and I mean STRICT - Catholic, and was often not allowed to go outside for some reason. I'd go over to have her come out and her mother would just simply say no for no reason so she ended up in the basement watching TV hour after hour after hour. To me it was the perfect set up for inducing mental illness.

    I'd loved to have been able to talk to her shrink and find out the real skinny on her illness.
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  • Profile picture of the author lcombs
    I once met a guy who had an open prescription for Thorazine.

    Just being in the room with him you "feel" he was insane.

    Very creepy. Couldn't get out of his house soon enough.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
      Originally Posted by lcombs View Post

      I once met a guy who had an open prescription for Thorazine.

      Just being in the room with him you "feel" he was insane.

      Very creepy. Couldn't get out of his house soon enough.
      Ah, you've been to Claude's house, too?
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I don't get the feel Clyde would be so strange to be around. I got the feeling his trainer........um......uh.....wife.....was usually there to help keep him off the walls and ceiling.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I don't get the feel Clyde would be so strange to be around. I got the feeling his trainer........um......uh.....wife.....was usually there to help keep him off the walls and ceiling.

      Well, I will give him this: he is clicker trained.
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

        Well, I will give him this: he is clicker trained.

        BTW Dan - about your sidebar. I'm an outsider........and fully assembled. Now what?
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        • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          BTW Dan - about your sidebar. I'm an outsider........and fully assembled. Now what?
          You know, I haven't thought about that in a while. It was a response to something Terra said long ago about OT regulars, referring to them as "insiders."

          It's probably time I came up with something new.
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          • Profile picture of the author HeySal
            Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

            You know, I haven't thought about that in a while. It was a response to something Terra said long ago about OT regulars, referring to them as "insiders."

            It's probably time I came up with something new.

            Oh. THAT kind of outsider. I was hoping we were going to go rock hunting.
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          • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
            Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

            You know, I haven't thought about that in a while. It was a response to something Terra said long ago about OT regulars, referring to them as "insiders."

            It's probably time I came up with something new.
            Hold on a cotton pickin' minute!

            The term/phrase I used was "core group" and sure I listed a few names, but I included an etc. to cover all of the group and didn't actually type by name. I never called anyone an outsider, ya poor offended friend of mine. :p

            Don't believe me? Read this!

            So now you can come inside from outside in the cold.

            Terra
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
    Terra, you've got to do a lot more to offend me.
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

      Terra, you've got to do a lot more to offend me.
      Could you be more specific, please?

      Got a pencil handy, Claude?
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      • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        Could you be more specific, please?

        Got a pencil handy, Claude?
        I'm starting to think Claude isn't talking to me. I might have to make a trip to Wooster.

        And you couldn't offend me either. You might aggravate me, but you won't offend me.
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

      Terra, you've got to do a lot more to offend me.
      Ha!

      Now that is a fact that I am well aware of considering some of the banter we have had here.

      And let me just add that I wouldn't have you any other way!

      Terra
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      • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
        Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

        And let me just add that I wouldn't have you any other way!

        Terra

        Terra, I'm married. You can't "have" me in any way. Now get your mind out of the gutter.
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        • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
          Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

          Terra, I'm married. You can't "have" me in any way. Now get your mind out of the gutter.
          Hahaha!

          Touche' my friend, touche'.

          Did I throw you for a loop?

          Terra
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            I'm shocked - I didn't know there WAS a ledge of sanity. If I had known, I would have tried to hold onto it when I fell off the normal train. Too late now.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
    Originally Posted by lcombs View Post

    You're holding onto the ledge of sanity by your fingertips.

    Do you hang on and try to pull yourself up off the ledge?

    Or, do you simply let go and give up a losing battle?
    I would definitely try to pull myself up and keep on going. Sure I may lose the battle, but I'll never know if I give up, and at least I can say that I gave it my all.

    : )
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    "Each problem has hidden in it an opportunity so powerful that it literally dwarfs the problem. The greatest success stories were created by people who recognized a problem and turned it into an opportunity."―Joseph Sugarman
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    "I decided to continue. To keep on dragging myself over the ice, maybe for nothing.
    At least not to die without having fought to the last; to have a chance, tiny as it may be, to live."

    During her book tour, Isabel Suppe stayed at the hotel I manage.

    She's a mountain climber who survived an 1100 foot fall on
    a mountain in the Andes. Her climbing partner did not make it
    because his head injuries were too severe.

    She literally figured she was going to die if she stayed, or if she
    tried to crawl out. She decided to try and crawl out. Her partner
    was still alive at this point. She thought she might be able to get
    help for him as well.

    Un-shameless, unaffiliated plug for her book:

    Starry Night
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Claude,

    I'm sorry I inadvertently stirred up the memory and am
    sorry to hear about your brother.

    Dan
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Come on, Claudes a big strong man, he wouldn't have brought his brother up had he not felt comfortable with it and I admire him for doing so.

      I'm just saying, he wouldn't have brought it up if he thought anyone would have thought they, had offended him.

      I'm not for one minute saying it's easy for you Claude. I just know you're a cheerful chap and I don't think you'd be annoyed with what anyone has said in this thread.

      Bizgrower, personally I think you're scared. I too read the post where Claude admitted to some 40 odd years of Kung Fu training. I'm fortunate enough to have a big pond between us but Ip Man could almost fly, so I'm not sleeping easy either.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

        Come on, Claudes a big strong man, he wouldn't have brought his brother up had he not felt comfortable with it and I admire him for doing so.

        I'm just saying, he wouldn't have brought it up if he thought anyone would have thought they, had offended him.

        I'm not for one minute saying it's easy for you Claude. I just know you're a cheerful chap and I don't think you'd be annoyed with what anyone has said in this thread.
        Absolutely. At no time did I feel uncomfortable. You guys are all great. This was all a long time ago. I just started typing, because it's what I was thinking at the moment.

        Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

        Claude,

        I'm sorry I inadvertently stirred up the memory and am
        sorry to hear about your brother.

        Dan
        Dan; Don't give it another thought.

        Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

        Sorry to hear about your Brother Claude.

        Typically, people with schizophrenia don't go around hitting people (etc.) They're more a danger to themselves than anything else.
        Yeah, the violence developed years later. I don't know why.

        But in my town, there are a few "local characters" that I suspect are suffering from some sort of dementia. One came into my store, and talked to me for an hour about converting a vacuum cleaner (We sell vacuum cleaners) to a perpetual motion machine that would allow him to travel through time. I wouldn't sell him the vacuum cleaner, because he had very little money, and I knew he was wasting it.

        Over the next few days, he brought in plans (for the time machine) that I suspect he worked on all night. He told me he would take me with him.

        It was actually touching. It was a sincere gesture...

        A few days later he stopped coming by, and I assume he found another project.
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        • Profile picture of the author HeySal
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          Yeah, the violence developed years later. I don't know why.

          But in my town, there are a few "local characters" that I suspect are suffering from some sort of dementia. One came into my store, and talked to me for an hour about converting a vacuum cleaner (We sell vacuum cleaners) to a perpetual motion machine that would allow him to travel through time. I wouldn't sell him the vacuum cleaner, because he had very little money, and I knew he was wasting it.

          Over the next few days, he brought in plans (for the time machine) that I suspect he worked on all night. He told me he would take me with him.

          It was actually touching. It was a sincere gesture...

          A few days later he stopped coming by, and I assume he found another project.
          The girl I knew that went schizo was the same way - just bizarre beliefs at first, but later she became quite aggressive. Must be something in the constant release of "fear" chemicals or some such. Kinda like a constant intake of sugar can blow out your adrenal glands.

          I'm seeing more and more people go silently crazy now. Most of them are on pharms of some sort. I live in the country - 3 neighbor women. They all do psychotropic drugs and they are getting crazier by the week. Last Saturday it came to a head and one called the police on my roomie because my roomie's dogs were in her yard - she neglected to understand that her dogs are over here quite frequently and she needs to control her own dogs as well, then. All three women - and the 3rd woman's husband ended up in the yard screaming at each other - and I heard the roomie yell "you hit me and you're going to jail". I just stayed in my room on the computer to stay out of it. Later the neighbors were emailing me to "let them in" on what the police said. Just nuts stuff.

          My roomie eats her pills, drinks a few beers and babbles like an imbecile until she goes to bed to sleep her nightly 13 hours. If she goes out in the yard with a dog - the other neighbor comes out with her cat on a leash and just stands and stares at her (one of my roomie's dogs is a cat eater) - she also goes on 3 day crying jags. I never see the third, but see the kids sometimes and they have no grip on reality either. One was over in the yard one day "collecting" stuff she "found" - had to explain to her when it's in someone else's yard, it's called "stealing". This is a 9 year old kid. Mom is too far looped to be able to teach her anything.

          I'm seeing this kind of behavior all over out here - and I'm under the impression that they have a lot more people than not out here on some form of psychotropic drugs. I'm starting to get paranoid about drinking the damned water, lol. There are so many that are so nuts that I'm thinking of relocating soon. I love it out here, but man - got to find somewhere that there are more people still sane than not.
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          • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
            Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

            I live in the country - 3 neighbor women. They all do psychotropic drugs and they are getting crazier by the week.
            Most folks move to the country to get away from people like that.
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            Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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            • Profile picture of the author HeySal
              Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

              Most folks move to the country to get away from people like that.
              Yeah. Right? There's one couple out here that are sane. They are rarely home, but I get to talk to them periodically and it's a damn thrill and a half. I just wonder what would make a person just start devouring psychotropic drugs when there's nothing much "psycho" about them to start with. Okay - everyone can sing the blues now and again, but that's normal, not a condition that needs drugging. Once they start - how is it that they can miss the fact they are making them loopy? It doesn't make sense to me. Not one little bit of sense. It's kinda like the OP was asking about - like they are just voluntarily relinquishing their minds.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    @ Kurt - Keep the flatlanders in the dark so they don't move up "here."

    @HeySal, Dennis - At least where I live a lot of little off characters move to the country because they can't handle the city. Astonishing to me is that most of the 20 somethings I've met in my county have or have had meth problems.

    @Richard - Thanks to Jackie Chan and Bruce Lee, it's both countries.

    Your post reminds of the motivational literature. "If you think you can, you're right.
    If you think you can't, you're right."

    Also, the "Acres of Diamonds" story about finding everything you need in your own
    back yard.

    Dan

    (Sorry. Multi-quote was not working. I think because I uninstalled Java?)
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Claude,

    I worked at a movie theater in high school ('76-'78).
    We would watch those movies and practice our "moves"
    during shows. Lot's of broom twirling.

    I took some Tae-Kwon-Do lessons in junior high and
    college. Later some Aikido lessons.

    Aikido was like learning a whole new language.
    The instructor is Japanese and very well regarded.
    He joked about seeing little boys trying to fight
    each other, but not knowing how because they
    knew different styles of self-defense. Wait, you
    were suppose to do this after I did this...

    Never did fall for the fake, movie stuff.
    Well, maybe wondered about some of Chi
    "power without striking" stuff in the David
    Carradine Kung Fu TV shows.

    Dan
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      Claude,

      I worked at a movie theater in high school ('76-'78).
      We would watch those movies and practice our "moves"
      during shows. Lot's of broom twirling.

      I took some Tae-Kwon-Do lessons in junior high and
      college. Later some Aikido lessons.

      Aikido was like learning a whole new language.
      The instructor is Japanese and very well regarded.
      He joked about seeing little boys trying to fight
      each other, but not knowing how because they
      knew different styles of self-defense. Wait, you
      were suppose to do this after I did this...

      Never did fall for the fake, movie stuff.
      Well, maybe wondered about some of Chi
      "power without striking" stuff in the David
      Carradine Kung Fu TV shows.

      Dan
      Dan; Around he fifth or sixth year of training, I started to be told things that I knew were simply not true. About chi projection, and Chinese superstition. In my class, we were all so involved, that everything was accepted without question. There were "tests" to see if our training worked. The tests were using simple tricks...that we were fooling ourselves with...but I dared not say anything. Eventually, I got fed up and quit. Sad, because most of the training (before the religious stuff) was top notch.

      It wasn't until later that I learned some real...real Kung Fu. My previous training gave me endurance, some techniques, and strength. But my next instructor was a no BS, my way or the highway, kind of guy. Not really a nice man, but he sure knew his stuff.

      On my first day, he placed his hand on my chest, and shook slightly (it was almost invisible). I dropped to the floor. Eventually, I could do that, but never as well as he could. He's the one that placed 5 patio blocks flat on top of each other, and said "Pick a brick". I said "Four" and he laid his palm on top of the stack (about 10 inches of concrete). He let out a little grunt, shook a little (his hand didn't move)...and the fourth brick as broken.

      None of these things were useful in self defense, but they would show what we could achieve with practice. I asked him how long that trick would take me to master. he said "Ten more years".

      I think I stayed another 8 years. I got to the point where I could break the last of three bricks. That's pretty good, but far below what he could do.

      All great skill looks like magic.

      The problem is, to the uninitiated, complete BS looks like magic too.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


    Sal; Um...move.

    Yeah - working on that one. Not as easy as it sounds at the moment. I wiggle out of catch 22 on one end, and end up in a new one every time. Sooner or later I will get the better of the game of doors and mirrors I've been playing. Right now I get to go out and put the donut on my car to see what the hell I ran over on the way back from town last night. Interesting you can 4 wheel all over out here - then ruin a tire on a paved road.

    Sigh. I'm gonna hold on to the edge -- I think I can swing a foot up over it if I can catch a couple good breaths first.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    3 bricks is good.
    Pros do make it look easy as well.
    Thanks.

    Dan
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      3 bricks is good.
      Pros do make it look easy as well.
      Thanks.

      Dan
      Dan; I didn't break three bricks. I broke the bottom brick, of a three brick stack.

      Much harder. And my palm starts out about three inches from the top brick.

      Not at all like what you see on TV, or in martial arts demonstrations.

      The bottom brick just falls, and you're left with two bricks.

      I never could break three bricks. We never used spacers.

      And I never sparred until after my third year. And then it was just drills. None of this ever had a sport aspect.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Hey Dennis,
    I'm a little west of Denver in a very small town.
    Amongst the 20 somethings here, it's terrible.
    A lot of construction contractors have a tough
    time finding good, reliable help. Many just take jobs
    they can do themselves to avoid the meth users who
    say they can do construction or painting...

    Claude,

    I did misread the that it was the third brick down, not all three.
    Have to say that I don't think I've seen that. I'll look closer at
    some YouTube vids.

    I enjoyed this movie a lot: (It seemed to get into the philosophy
    and art more than sport or fighting.)

    Circle of Iron (1978) - IMDb

    Dan
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