Are you tired of the sellers who don't give a damn?

36 replies
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I've been selling on the 'net since 2005. Since I started, I have seen the quality of sellers decline over the years. I've seen so many ethical sellers make it big and I've seen what that has done to the masses wanting to "cash in."

I used to be able to make a purchase and get a refund when it was not "as described." Now it has become a wasteland of junk sellers who just want YOUR money. They go through the motions of putting up a great sales letter, host a great webinar, and wait for the sales to roll in. Once the money starts rolling, they're off to their next big project.

I haven't been making as purchases as I have in years past, but recently I invested in 4 products - info and software - that have not been worth the money. There is NO refund policy on their sites, so you would think you were safe in asking for a refund after stating the reason. No matter how often or what method I have used to get support, there has been NO RESPONSE.

Because of this "I don't care about my customers" attitude, I have decided to stop buying from sellers I don't know. Even affiliates telling me how great a product is will not be enough to make me buy. (I recently purchased software based on the recommendation of 2 female partner sellers in the WF who are now actually supporting the seller who does not respond to support issues!)

But what about their promises? What about their customer support?

Sound off - list your grievances (without naming names).
#damn #give #sellers #tired
  • Profile picture of the author ksmusselman
    You make an excellent point here. Lately, I won't buy from anyone unless I've had some dialogue with them already; YouTube comment replies, Facebook reciprocal likes, etc.

    It's a jungle out there to say the least, and with so many unethical wanna-get-rich newbies entering the field, it can be tough finding quality products from solid, ethical sellers.
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    • Really - I'm the only buyer submitting support tickets with NO RESPONSE?
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
    You'll find that these types of threads don't do well, especially down here in the cellar. This is where we come to be social and make fun of Claude Whitacre, not to discuss business and associated topics.
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    • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
      I know exactly what the OP means. I won't buy from any seller who doesn't offer at least one free damn. In fact, I insist on a fresh damn each month or I'll refuse to give the last one back.

      Some damn sellers get away with murder.
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  • Well, isn't that interesting. I posted this under the main discussion forum. How did it end up here? Hmmmm!
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    • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
      Originally Posted by Digital Info Diva View Post

      Well, isn't that interesting. I posted this under the main discussion forum. How did it end up here? Hmmmm!

      Mod must've moved it. I suppose it doesn't belong in the main forum as it doesn't involve making money.
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      • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
        Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

        Mod must've moved it. I suppose it doesn't belong in the main forum as it doesn't involve making money.
        I'm guessing someone decided the main forum doesn't need yet another moanathon.
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        • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
          Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

          I'm guessing someone decided the main forum doesn't need yet another moanathon.

          Hmmmm...The American being diplomatic and the Brit being direct. Modern times, eh?
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          • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
            Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

            Hmmmm...The American being diplomatic and the Brit being direct. Modern times, eh?
            Hey! It was you who mentioned the porridge.
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            • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
              I'm guessing someone decided the main forum doesn't need yet another moanathon.
              Someone got their Universal Mind Reading Helmet to work.

              Mine's buggy as hell, and the seller won't issue an update. Can you believe it???
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    I can never understand the purpose of threads like this. Is there junk out there? Sure. The answer is simple. Don't buy it. Don't buy it unless it has a refund policy. Don't buy it if the sales claims are overblown. And most important, don't buy it unless you know and trust the seller.
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  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    Originally Posted by Digital Info Diva View Post

    I've been selling on the 'net since 2005. Since I started, I have seen the quality of sellers decline over the years. I've seen so many ethical sellers make it big and I've seen what that has done to the masses wanting to "cash in."

    I used to be able to make a purchase and get a refund when it was not "as described." Now it has become a wasteland of junk sellers who just want YOUR money. They go through the motions of putting up a great sales letter, host a great webinar, and wait for the sales to roll in. Once the money starts rolling, they're off to their next big project.

    I haven't been making as purchases as I have in years past, but recently I invested in 4 products - info and software - that have not been worth the money. There is NO refund policy on their sites, so you would think you were safe in asking for a refund after stating the reason. No matter how often or what method I have used to get support, there has been NO RESPONSE.

    Because of this "I don't care about my customers" attitude, I have decided to stop buying from sellers I don't know. Even affiliates telling me how great a product is will not be enough to make me buy. (I recently purchased software based on the recommendation of 2 female partner sellers in the WF who are now actually supporting the seller who does not respond to support issues!)

    But what about their promises? What about their customer support?

    Sound off - list your grievances (without naming names).

    I have grievances, and I'm not going to take it any more.

    Do you know how hard it is to make a living selling online when customers scam you by refusing packages that they ordered, or say that they never received it ...even though UPS tracking shows that it was delivered and signed for?

    Every week, I get calls from customers that say "Where is my package?".
    And I look it up and tell them "You placed the order Saturday. It's Monday. We sent it out today, you'll get it tomorrow"....and they scream "But I need it now!"

    10% of my digital products get refund requests. The refunds are given automatically, but I know that the person bought the information..read it...and then asked for a refund...just like they always do. Some customers are serial refunders, and should be banned from buying anything online.

    Do you know how many phone calls I get from people complaining to me...when they bought from someone else? But they think I must be the company, because they see my marketing everywhere.

    Did you know, that every year in November and December..I get calls from people who bought from me a year or two ago...and now want refunds...because they need Christmas money, and couldn't think of a better way to get it than from victimizing merchants? In our industry, it's called Riffling.

    Every month, I get a customer write me a check on a closed account. Another one gives me a stolen credit card. I have to eat that loss.

    Each month, I get people returning something because they say it doesn't work. I give them their money back, and throw away the thing they bought...because they broke it...not because it didn't work.

    Selling to consumers isn't a joy. But it pays well, if you can put up with them.

    So, I'm glad you started this thread to give us merchants a chance to tell everyone how we get taken advantage of.


    What? You mean this was for consumers to complain about merchants? Yes...there are shifty merchants as well.



    Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

    I'm guessing someone decided the main forum doesn't need yet another moanathon.
    I've actually participated in several "Moanathons" when I was much younger and had more stamina. ......What?

    Oh, soooo.... that's not what you meant? Sorry.

    Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

    I know exactly what the OP means. I won't buy from any seller who doesn't offer at least one free damn. In fact, I insist on a fresh damn each month or I'll refuse to give the last one back.

    Some damn sellers get away with murder.
    You and I feel the same way.

    Every time I get a customer complaining...I think "Damn".
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    • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      ...blah, blah, blah, complain, blah, blah...

      Did you know, that every year in November and December..I get calls from people who bought from me a year or two ago...and now want refunds...because they need Christmas money, and couldn't think of a better way to get it than from victimizing merchants? In our industry, it's called Riffling.

      ....more blah, blah, blah, scratching, blah, blah, applying ointment, blah, blah, blah...

      Boy, "Riffling" sure has a lot of different meanings these days...
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

        Boy, "Riffling" sure has a lot of differnt meanings these days...
        Yup, and all of them are funny. Don't be Churlish.



        Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

        There should be no refunds on digital products. Period.

        I like the idea for two reasons, it stops the looky-lous and serial refunders, it stops weak sales people and con men from selling off the guarantee.
        Ok, I'm being serious now.

        I disagree. Sure there are serial refunders. But I think the additional sales, by having a refund policy, makes up for the bad customers.

        Even in my store, giving refunds helps sales. It's a net plus. Although that argument doesn't make me like it any more.

        I'm talking about $29 e-books. The refunds are automatic, and I don't have to see the chiselers.

        $5,000 services? No. No refunds, and that's clearly explained up front.

        Of course, that's just my opinion.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

          Selling off the guarantee is incredibly weak.

          Gee, if you don't like it, I'll give you your money back.

          It's an old mail order technique from the days when it was a major hassle to return something through the mail. Part of that reluctance lingers in digital sales, apparently enough to half sell a product.

          Just think of the orders you could get if you just let them download and pay only if they "liked" it. Why, orders would go through the roof. Everyone would be rich, right?

          I don't see any return policies on books, films and software if you don't like them. Only digital products, usually in the alternative health, MMO, get the girl of your dreams niches sell off the guarantee.

          It's one thing to have a guarantee. It's quite another to use it as your main selling point.

          I think it's weak as water.
          Ken, My dear Friend.....

          We agree on everything you said. More than you know.

          Selling off a guarantee is the worst approach, and gets you the worst customers...and guarantees plenty of refunds.

          I would never sell off a guarantee. I've been selling for decades, and know it's the worst approach.

          But I give refunds for one reason. It increases sales. And in my copy (depending on what I'm selling) it's stated clearly. But it is never the reason they buy.

          Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

          "Just think of the orders you could get if you just let them download and pay only if they "liked" it. Why, orders would go through the roof. Everyone would be rich, right?"
          I must have hit a nerve. You are implying that this would be my approach. Nope. I always get the money first. And it isn't my thought at all.


          Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

          I don't see any return policies on books, films and software if you don't like them. Only digital products, usually in the alternative health, MMO, get the girl of your dreams niches sell off the guarantee.
          Ken; Every major retailer gives refunds. Amazon gives refunds on virtually anything. Books included. People who buy my books on Amazon know that too. You know what? 10% of my books bought in Kindle format are "returned". Nobody ever returns a print book. Never. I've never had a request for a refund on any digital product (besides Amazon) either. But it's a different niche maybe. Huge companies know that a liberal refund policy increases sales. But leading with it would be suicide. A refund policy should just be to make buyers feel a little safer.

          There is a huge difference in mindset between buying and borrowing. Never let the prospect feel that they are just borrowing the product to "check it out". I suppose it still may be profitable, but it would make me sick, and I don't want those customers.

          So yeah, you're right. Some niches are swarming with serial refunders. The internet marketing niche being one. But I don't sell to that niche, not really. So I'm not exposed to that.
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        • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
          Originally Posted by Digital Info Diva View Post

          ... There is NO refund policy on their sites, so you would think you were safe in asking for a refund after stating the reason.
          No, I would think it was safe asking for a refund if there IS a posted refund policy. If there is NO refund policy, I'd think there's probably a reason for that -- like maybe they don't offer refunds.


          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          Yup, and all of them are funny. Don't be Churlish.

          Oh man, "churlish" is so last week. :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Well, it appears she was trying to riffle up main discussion with her claudacious accusations today.(1)(2) Glad to see in the Off Topic where we really do love these types of whining posts (NOT).

    (1) OP decides that WillR is the reason for the condition of the Internet, even though she doesn't appear to know him or to have purchased any of his products.
    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post8719253

    (2) OP thanks WillR for outing himself as "being all about himself and not the customer" (when she apparently has not been a customer of his) and promises a scathing expose.
    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post8721906

    I propose a new forum for threads like this. Just call it "Idiots" and be done with it.
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    • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      I propose a new forum for threads like this. Just call it "Idiots" and be done with it.
      You mean renaming the OT forum?
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      • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
        Yep!

        Claude made some valid points!

        One of my WSO's, has constant refunders or an a**** that go to a Giraffe site to grab someones Credit Card numbers.

        Usually l just go to PP, and issue a refund, but l recently had to pay the $27 for my product as well as $10, (PP fee)!


        I think that this occurred because the affiliate gave me 3 dodgy orders? But PayPal changes it's rules so often, not too many people have the time to sift through it all, and just accept the new rules, and hope that they aren't stupid ones!


        I think that if you blackball dodgy affiliates or buyers, keep your affiliate list clean, then it isn't that big an issue.


        Also if you create a cheap product it tends to keep the crooks at bay!


        Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

        I can never understand the purpose of threads like this. Is there junk out there? Sure. The answer is simple. Don't buy it. Don't buy it unless it has a refund policy. Don't buy it if the sales claims are overblown. And most important, don't buy it unless you know and trust the seller.

        What, does that mean that the software that promises untold wealth from an underground Russian hacker and pet monkey, is iffy???? :rolleyes:

        Hmmmm, best to buy the other one, with the Prostitute, turned hacker, and pet tiger, that promises the same??? He, he! :rolleyes:



        Shane
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

          Yep!
          Claude made some valid points!
          Shane
          Everyone see that? Shane just said I (Claude Whitacre) made some valid points!

          So there!


          Claude "I'm Special" Whitacre :rolleyes:
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          • Profile picture of the author joseph7384
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            Everyone see that? Shane just said I (Claude Whitacre) made some valid points!

            So there!


            Claude "I'm Special" Whitacre :rolleyes:
            I could see Dan riffling in tears over your self proclaimed title, and what a claudacious moment it would be.
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            • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
              Originally Posted by joseph7384 View Post

              I could see Dan riffling in tears over your self proclaimed title, and what a claudacious moment it would be.
              Joseph, you apparently aren't contextualizing "special" the same way I am. I think the new title is fitting.
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            • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
              claudacious
              A good word. It bears repeating.
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              • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

                Hey, no fair, my name's too easy to lampoon. You should be a-shane-d of yourself. :p
                Playing with fire Dennis!

                I might have to unleash my graphic skills! He, he! :rolleyes:


                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                Everyone see that? Shane just said I (Claude Whitacre) made some valid points!

                So there!


                Claude "I'm Special" Whitacre :rolleyes:

                Hmmmm, it is true power corrupts, he, he! :rolleyes:


                Shane
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                • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
                  Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

                  Playing with fire Dennis!

                  I might have to unleash my graphic skills! He, he! :rolleyes:

                  Like you haven't already. :rolleyes:

                  I have graphic skills too, send me your picture. *evil grin*
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                  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                    I have graphic skills too, send me your picture. *evil grin*
                    Ummm... My money is on Dennis.

                    Just sayin'. He can be an evil bastich...
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                    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
                      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                      Ummm... My money is on Dennis.

                      Just sayin'. He can be an evil bastich...
                      It's all in the training.
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                      • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                        Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

                        Like you haven't already. :rolleyes:

                        I have graphic skills too, send me your picture. *evil grin*


                        Here you go! He, he!

                        I know l look like Cary Grant, it is a curse l have had to live with. LOL!


                        Shane

                        Any resemblance to anyone living or dead is purely coincidental! He, he!
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      I just riffled through this thread and have nothing claudacious to add.
      Is that terra-ble or what?
      Gosh, biz, you're a real gaskill tonight.
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      • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
        Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

        Gosh, biz, you're a real gaskill tonight.
        At least I'm not churlish.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

        Gosh, biz, you're a real gaskill tonight.
        Hey, no fair, my name's too easy to lampoon. You should be a-shane-d of yourself. :p
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  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    I've got a lot of abandonware on my harddrive that was once so full of promise and swarms of enthusiastic affiliates. Most were costly duds, I'm afraid, but some were actually good products but still just dropped over time, who knows why. That's the nature of the beast.
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    Project HERE.

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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    I think one problem - at least in the 'make money' market is that buyers don't have
    much money to spare. So there's a lot more stress and serial refunders in that market.

    As far as buying anything in general goes: If you can't afford the risks involved, then don't buy.

    I'm considering buying a car in the $1500 - $2000 range. Of course there will be no warranty.

    I could pick a dud, but it's a risk I'm willing to take because I know cars (1.5 million miles as a courier and you can have a mechanic do a pre-check). If it was driven and maintained well, just about any everyday brand - 90's or newer - will easily run 200,000 to 300,000 miles without a whole lot of effort.

    (I hope this post is gaskillian enough.)

    Biz
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