The internet is dying and the future of IM is worse than you think..

by Devin X Banned
64 replies
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Okay, let's have some intelligent discussion here. This isn't a boo hoo poor me poor me thread. I'm doing fine...for now. But I believe there is strong evidence to support the idea that it is becoming increasingly harder and harder to start and maintain profitable businesses...especially online.

This is ironic since the internet reduced the barriers to entry, costs of entry, and created new distribution channels. However, that was only the beginning of the market cycle. You know how they say that everything operates in cycles? Same principle here.

It's similar to the years leading up to the turn of the 20th century in America. The West was being populated, the gold rush was happening, and a window of opportunity rose up from the expansion into the West. Lots of people got rich and lots of other people lost everything. However, as the West became saturated and things got settled down, it became harder for anyone to strike it rich by going out West either by starting fresh or looting gold. A few years later and it became impossible for the average joe to go from zero to hero on their own. Same thing is happening here.

1990-2000 - Internet Gold Rush. People flock to the new technology and innovation. Dot Com bubble expands. Lots of people get rich as ****.

2000-2010 - Wild Wild West. Dot Com bubble bursts. No rules, no regs, low cost of entry, low everything. People make money but everything starts getting saturated and fewer and fewer people strike it rich. Those that get rich here start larger companies, grab larger market shares, and expand their control and influence.

2010-2020 Big Business. Similar to the Industrial Age, only the established will make money as conglomerates form, Big Business takes hold, and the small internet business owners are consumed by the Leviathans...similar to what has been happening offline over the past century. Eventually, it becomes impossible for the average joe to start an online business, or any business, since only the top dogs are left with complete control over their market shares. New technology will also raise the barriers and costs of entry so that it will cost as much to start an online business as it does a brick and mortar one does.

What this means to us? You better make your business work now, because if you don't, you'll be left behind. If you have made your business work, then you better be planning to expand into a larger company or conglomerate. The idea of being this solopreneur who quietly makes a fortune is dying. Soon, you will either be part of the new economy owning a medium-large company, or you will be working for one.

What do you think? I have more, but this isn't an article, it's a (hopefully) discussion.

P.S. A lot of the responses have shown that people either didn't understand what this thread is about...or they didn't read the OP here. Please read the thread and think about the concepts here before chiming in.
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I think the only problem we have with the Internet is that governments are putting their noses into it, trying to control information and trying to figure out how to line their pockets from it.

    As far as business - I don't see any problem there other than a lot of people that are trying to start a business know shyte from shinola about running ANY business, off or online.
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    • Profile picture of the author lcombs
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I think the only problem we have with the Internet is that governments are putting their noses into it, trying to control information and trying to figure out how to line their pockets from it.

      As far as business - I don't see any problem there other than a lot of people that are trying to start a business know shyte from shinola about running ANY business, off or online.
      It's not only that the gov't is intervening.
      IM has become big business.
      In 2003 I had the idea of advertising my online gift store
      in the local news paper for Mother's Day.
      I'd never seen or heard of an online only business market off-line
      in the manor of a conventional business.

      Today, I see affiliates advertising on major TV networks.
      To say nothing of the Billion dollar businesses like Macy's, Walmart,
      Target, Lowe's,and virtually every other brick-n-morter, pre-internet giant.

      Multi-thousand dollar courses are a thing of the past.
      All the information you need is freely available.

      There are small niches that allow an individual to make a good living working online.
      But, I believe the ".com" gold rush is over.
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by lcombs View Post

        It's not only that the gov't is intervening.
        IM has become big business.
        In 2003 I had the idea of advertising my online gift store
        in the local news paper for Mother's Day.
        I'd never seen or heard of an online only business market off-line
        in the manor of a conventional business.

        Today, I see affiliates advertising on major TV networks.
        To say nothing of the Billion dollar businesses like Macy's, Walmart,
        Target, Lowe's,and virtually every other brick-n-morter, pre-internet giant.

        Multi-thousand dollar courses are a thing of the past.
        All the information you need is freely available.

        There are small niches that allow an individual to make a good living working online.
        But, I believe the ".com" gold rush is over.
        I can agree with the rush being over. Maybe it's the niches I'm in that things just don't seem to have changed much. My rock and gem hunting has never been 100% online. Never will be, so that hasn't changed a tad other than I need to beef up the blog again starting January if I'm going to do the offline projects I want to do. The rest of what I do is writing, so that doesn't change much either - you either stick the ebook on Kindle or you sell it as PLR. Not much changing with that one either.

        While I can see some niches taking a complete dive - that's no different from any other time in history, either. Some businesses will thrive for awhile, then hit the skids when something changes. A lot of Mom and Pop stores took a dive when chain corporations took over the markets, but people are becoming fed up with them now, so are shopping with local businesses instead. I can't imagine buying meat from a factory farm, for example, and shop local butchers now like my mom did when I was a kid.

        Part of the decline in the IM market, I believe, is that it was saturated with "get rich quick" crap in the first place. People actually believed that you needed no skills or education whatsoever to make vast fortunes. They are finding out, for the most part, that isn't the case. There's always someone with no knowledge that gets lucky here and there - happens offline, too, now and again (remember the pet rock?). For the most part though, what I think I'm seeing is that people are realizing they need to understand how to run the business or at least be able to pay someone who does to survive in a competitive market and the scam shams and regurgitation millers are dying out.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Braybrooke
    Such is the nature of the Internet that it tends to have a life of its own. A creative space so large can never be totally owned or controlled by a few. In spite of all the naysayers, some entrepreneurial spirits continue to find new and innovative ways to make money online. Buy in to negative rationality if you wish but fortunes will be continued to be made by those with fresh, dynamic ideas and by them who can offer affordable and practical solutions to the world's ever-evolving problems.
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    I don't think IM is dying. I just think that many "old-timer" IMers are getting lazy. The internet is more like a river that is constantly changing. You have to follow the flow and get in front of it. At one time that was easy, because most of it flowed through google. But that's changing, and has changed. There are still easy ways to get in front of the flow of the internet. And as long as you're not lazy, and you stay aware of the internet flow, then you'll be able to market and make money.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    The OP is wrong in several respects. For one, the Internet started BEFORE 1990!

    His story SEEMS to refer to the WWW, but that started AFTER 1990! The innovation was really created OUTSIDE of the companies affected by the bubble that popped in 1999. It popped because the fed thought too much money was being made, so they raised rates and KILLED the companies that had NO real value. They ALSO made it hard for companies that were teetering that WEREN'T on the internet.

    Right now, some of the BIGGEST problems are the neophytes and SCAMSTERS. Email is MUCH harder. A USP and a good platform can STILL do well. That IS, after all, about the only reason AMAZON stayed in business. TODAY, one of their offerings is BACKEND platform provisioning.

    I DO hope that they will keep the 237 year old policy of NO SALES TAX on remote sales.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    There will always be room for innovation and innovators. Copycatting may be getting harder.
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    • Profile picture of the author Devin X
      Banned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      As far as business - I don't see any problem there other than a lot of people that are trying to start a business know shyte from shinola about running ANY business, off or online.
      This is very true, however, rising costs of entry will further remove the feasibility that shoestrappers will be able to start a business in the future. I also neglected to mention that the line between an online and offline business is not blurring...they're combining so that the synthesis is a business that cannot survive in the new economy unless it is utilizing online marketing. This transformation will of course, also contribute to the rising costs of entry.

      Originally Posted by lcombs View Post

      Today, I see affiliates advertising on major TV networks. To say nothing of the Billion dollar businesses like Macy's, Walmart,
      Target, Lowe's,and virtually every other brick-n-morter, pre-internet giant.

      Multi-thousand dollar courses are a thing of the past.
      All the information you need is freely available. There are small niches that allow an individual to make a good living working online.
      But, I believe the ".com" gold rush is over.
      Exactly. Like I said, it is becoming dominated by big business, so not only is the .com gold rush over...but the feasibility of being a quiet millionaire 1 man operation is also nil. I'm working towards it, but I see that we will have to create mid sized businesses if we are to essentially survive later on this decade. Small businesses and solopreneurs will have to suck it up and adapt...or go the way of the dodo.

      Originally Posted by David Braybrooke View Post

      A creative space so large can never be totally owned or controlled by a few. In spite of all the naysayers, some entrepreneurial spirits continue to find new and innovative ways to make money online. Buy in to negative rationality if you wish but fortunes will be continued to be made by those with fresh, dynamic ideas and by them who can offer affordable and practical solutions to the world's ever-evolving problems.
      No, the internet is getting smaller and smaller. It's part of the law of power distribution and we are seeing this happen. The internet is being condensed to only the top authority sites which are all operated by big business. I hate to be the cynical one but you should be working towards building a mid-sized company...the one man operation or small business mentality will get you crushed by the giants in the later half of this decade. I'm sure of it. Forewarned is forearmed.

      Originally Posted by garyv View Post

      I don't think IM is dying. I just think that many "old-timer" IMers are getting lazy. The internet is more like a river that is constantly changing. You have to follow the flow and get in front of it. At one time that was easy, because most of it flowed through google. But that's changing, and has changed.
      Agreed. Being adaptive is part of the game here, but the times are changing and we're going to have to adapt even more to stay relevant and profitable. By adapt, I think we'll have to build bigger businesses. I don't think it will be possible to be a one person, million dollar enterprise in the near future. Costs of entry, rising operating costs, government regulations, and competition from the big businesses are going to whittle down the marketplace to a much smaller and much more competitive arena than it is today.

      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I can agree with the rush being over. Maybe it's the niches I'm in that things just don't seem to have changed much. My rock and gem hunting has never been 100% online. Never will be, so that hasn't changed a tad other than I need to beef up the blog again starting January if I'm going to do the offline projects I want to do. The rest of what I do is writing, so that doesn't change much either - you either stick the ebook on Kindle or you sell it as PLR. Not much changing with that one either.

      While I can see some niches taking a complete dive - that's no different from any other time in history, either. Some businesses will thrive for awhile, then hit the skids when something changes. A lot of Mom and Pop stores took a dive when chain corporations took over the markets, but people are becoming fed up with them now, so are shopping with local businesses instead. I can't imagine buying meat from a factory farm, for example, and shop local butchers now like my mom did when I was a kid.

      Part of the decline in the IM market, I believe, is that it was saturated with "get rich quick" crap in the first place. People actually believed that you needed no skills or education whatsoever to make vast fortunes. They are finding out, for the most part, that isn't the case. There's always someone with no knowledge that gets lucky here and there - happens offline, too, now and again (remember the pet rock?). For the most part though, what I think I'm seeing is that people are realizing they need to understand how to run the business or at least be able to pay someone who does to survive in a competitive market and the scam shams and regurgitation millers are dying out.
      I agree with you. But I think the landscape and dynamics are changing as I've explained above.

      Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

      But as others have said most won't strike it rich online, but a few that won't give up will eventually find loopholes or ways around expensive, restrictive modes of advertising, and go on to make a killing!
      No, the loopholes, ways, modes, and secrets are gone. It's down to the fundamentals, building a brand, and expanding your company to a larger and more influential presence. The traditional dream of working by yourself making millions is gone now, and not coming back. Adapt or die. And if you (plural) haven't even started yet, then you probably won't make it since the barriers to entry are rising quickly.

      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      The OP is wrong in several respects. For one, the Internet started BEFORE 1990!

      His story SEEMS to refer to the WWW, but that started AFTER 1990! The innovation was really created OUTSIDE of the companies affected by the bubble that popped in 1999. It popped because the fed thought too much money was being made, so they raised rates and KILLED the companies that had NO real value. They ALSO made it hard for companies that were teetering that WEREN'T on the internet.

      Right now, some of the BIGGEST problems are the neophytes and SCAMSTERS. Email is MUCH harder. A USP and a good platform can STILL do well. That IS, after all, about the only reason AMAZON stayed in business. TODAY, one of their offerings is BACKEND platform provisioning.

      I DO hope that they will keep the 237 year old policy of NO SALES TAX on remote sales.
      I know the internet is older than 1990...but that's not the point and I didn't say it started then. I am talking about e-commerce and the phases of the market over the last few decades. It was wide open wild west at first, then it became saturated and a little restrictive, and it will become big business where we will have to adapt, or go the way of thousands of other small businesses when corporate chains and big box marts took over and eradicated them. Same thing is happening here. So this will affect us whether we're currently making 1,000,000/month or 1,000/month. I also think that the gov't will be adding more restrictions, and will probably levy a tax on remote purchases as well. I stand by what I've said. It will become impossible for people in the future to start a business because they will need a great deal of financial and intellectual capital to do so. It will also get really hard for those of us who are doing fine now...but will refuse to change along with the rest of the landscape. I think history has proven this, and I've been seeing it happen in my own time here since 07.

      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      There will always be room for innovation and innovators.
      Of course. But you'll need substantial capital to do so, especially in the near future.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by TheRealDudeman View Post

        I know the internet is older than 1990...but that's not the point and I didn't say it started then. I am talking about e-commerce and the phases of the market over the last few decades.
        ECOMMERCE!?!?!? OH, that is different!That is FAR more recent! Cybercash was perhaps the first, and it went in business late 1994! Due to the failure of customers to patch a bug, it succumbed to the Y2K problems and went bankrupt in 2000. To put this in perspective, authorize.net went in business 1996. paypal was 1998. verisign and thawte were 1995(verisign and thawte did NOT process credit cards, but they DID provide SSL to secure such connections.)

        It was wide open wild west at first, then it became saturated and a little restrictive, and it will become big business where we will have to adapt, or go the way of thousands of other small businesses when corporate chains and big box marts took over and eradicated them.
        The internet isn't a business. It is effectively MEDIA! It is to computers what radio was to the advertising industry. IMAGINE what would happen if RADIO disappeared! HECK, maybe you never thought you listened to radio, etc.... Nearly 100% of the planet, and possible BILLIONS of people do every second of every day. It is used in WIFI, CELL PHONES, ETC....

        As for the internet? It is ALSO used all over. Even the PHONE COMPANIES, ironically now use it! So does wall street! Before that, wall street used leased lines. Before that, likely centralized. Before that, you can bet it was printed, like pink sheets today.

        So I think the infrastructure is likely here to stay. The only question is if we will be allowed to keep using it freely. By freely, I mean with a lack of crazy restraints/monitoring. Several countries have ALREADY spoken about restraints, etc...

        Same thing is happening here. So this will affect us whether we're currently making 1,000,000/month or 1,000/month. I also think that the gov't will be adding more restrictions, and will probably levy a tax on remote purchases as well. I stand by what I've said. It will become impossible for people in the future to start a business because they will need a great deal of financial and intellectual capital to do so. It will also get really hard for those of us who are doing fine now...but will refuse to change along with the rest of the landscape. I think history has proven this, and I've been seeing it happen in my own time here since 07.
        OK, I didn't even read this when I wrote the above. It ALREADY is near impossible to do it without a lot of "financial and intellectual capital". It has been for over a DECADE! THAT is why we have to pay a fortune to someone ELSE! SURE, some do it for free, but it is always at a cost of some sort. In the REALLY early days, merchant accounts were hard to get. LATER, gateway were hard to implement. It took me over an hour, and a couple calls to tech support to get cybercashes gateway installed. It was *******FAR******* harder than authorize.net, and authorize.net is harder than paypal. And the early hosting accounts may not even have given you HTTP, let alone CGI or page templates.

        Anyway, the only way they will bring back these complications is to put a LOT of companies out of business. TODAY, that could bankrupt the phone companies.

        ALSO, if you were right, they might as well forget IPv6! IPv4 is an issue ONLY because there are SO many hosting companies with SO many servers! Moving to IPv6 IS an expensive proposition. I said it would take some time, and apparently it has. Of course, many things, even cell phones, will require IPv6, but if you want to lock it up.... Phones also won't need the speed.

        BTW VERY few people have their OWN gateway! There WAS an opensource gateway out but I found out about it too late. A huge company bought it out and apparently SQUASHED IT! ANOTHER company took it and ran with it, but they charge a HUGE yearly license fee.

        It is things like THAT that keep paypal and the like so popular. IMAGINE though, if they changed account types and enforced them. NO MORE paypal, authorize.net, etc... They could use the EXISTING infrastructure to shut down MOST ecommerce. ALAS, it still means BANKRUPTCIES!

        Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        I think the only problem we have with the Internet is that governments are putting their noses into it, trying to control information and trying to figure out how to line their pockets from it.

        As far as business - I don't see any problem there other than a lot of people that are trying to start a business know shyte from shinola about running ANY business, off or online.
        ^^This 100%!!
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        • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
          If you have problems locating a seat in a cinema, are cinemas "dead"?
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          • Profile picture of the author Sarevok
            Originally Posted by Daniel Evans View Post

            If you have problems locating a seat in a cinema, are cinemas "dead"?
            What if the seats are $2,000,000?

            Is it dead then?

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            • Profile picture of the author Big Rob
              Congrats, OP.

              You managed to goad some of the most brilliant minds in the OT lounge into posting.

              Whether intentional or accidental, this is an insult to the integrity of the posters.

              Good Day,Troll.
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              • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                Originally Posted by Big Rob View Post

                Congrats, OP.

                You managed to goad some of the most brilliant minds in the OT lounge into posting.

                Whether intentional or accidental, this is an insult to the integrity of the posters.

                Good Day,Troll.
                Jeez Rob - who pissed in your wheaties this morning?
                We're just down here putting a very prevalent topic to bed for people. Maybe after this, you won't have to see the "guess what's dead now" posts in the main forum so often. :rolleyes:
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                • Profile picture of the author bluecoyotemedia
                  Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                  Jeez Rob - who pissed in your wheaties this morning?
                  We're just down here putting a very prevalent topic to bed for people. Maybe after this, you won't have to see the "guess what's dead now" posts in the main forum so often. :rolleyes:

                  hey sal

                  I think the phrase is

                  who pissed in your cheerios lol
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                  • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
                    Originally Posted by bluecoyotemedia View Post

                    hey sal

                    I think the phrase is

                    who pissed in your cheerios lol
                    Eh, it goes both ways. Personally, I prefer, "Who pissed in your Lucky Charms?"

                    By the way, the only acceptable answer to the question, regardless of phrasing, is, "Claude Whitacre."
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                  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                    Originally Posted by bluecoyotemedia View Post

                    hey sal

                    I think the phrase is

                    who pissed in your cheerios lol
                    But........Wheaties is the breakfast of Champs, don'tcha know? I just figured that Rob was the type of guy who likes advantages.:rolleyes:
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            • Profile picture of the author hardraysnight
              Originally Posted by Sarevok View Post

              What if the seats are $2,000,000?

              Is it dead then?

              no,. just means movies are getting better, finally
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      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

        There will always be room for innovation and innovators. Copycatting may be getting harder.
        Originally Posted by TheRealDudeman View Post

        Of course. But you'll need substantial capital to do so, especially in the near future.
        You're entitled to your opinion, but those determined will find a way -- just as they always have.
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      • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
        Originally Posted by TheRealDudeman View Post

        Adapt or die. And if you (plural) haven't even started yet, then you probably won't make it since the barriers to entry are rising quickly.


        Of course. But you'll need substantial capital to do so, especially in the near future.
        I so disagree with this.
        where are are getting your information?

        to run an online business you need a domain, an autoresponder, web hosting, and traffic sent to a good offer - right now the cost of that is significantly less than $100 to start - I can see that possibly doubling in the future but that is still a low cost to start a business -

        I do not agree that we have to become a medium sized business to survive - I do think we will have to adapt and change - that's a given. I didn't survive since 1997 by staying the same.

        I am all over this thread because I absolutely detest doom and gloom and fear-mongering of any type - your thread is so opposite of encouraging - it's depressing especially for new Warriors.

        All the new warriors reading this thread should not let anything posted in this thread discourage you from starting your own business - if anything it should be used as fuel to prove the OP wrong on every count.

        sorry if I ruffle any feathers here - but it's the holiday season - let's spread some hope and joy around instead, shall we?
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        • Profile picture of the author Janet Sawyer
          Geez! Dudeman- It's December, do you still need those sunglasses on at this time of year?

          Better get onto Alex (your mentor) and see what he has to say about this.
          The internet is dying and the future of IM is worse than you think..
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        • Profile picture of the author David Braybrooke
          Originally Posted by Karen Blundell View Post

          I so disagree with this.
          where are are getting your information?

          to run an online business you need a domain, an autoresponder, web hosting, and traffic sent to a good offer - right now the cost of that is significantly less than $100 to start - I can see that possibly doubling in the future but that is still a low cost to start a business -

          I do not agree that we have to become a medium sized business to survive - I do think we will have to adapt and change - that's a given. I didn't survive since 1997 by staying the same.

          I am all over this thread because I absolutely detest doom and gloom and fear-mongering of any type - your thread is so opposite of encouraging - it's depressing especially for new Warriors.

          All the new warriors reading this thread should not let anything posted in this thread discourage you from starting your own business - if anything it should be used as fuel to prove the OP wrong on every count.

          sorry if I ruffle any feathers here - but it's the holiday season - let's spread some hope and joy around instead, shall we?
          Which is why I started this thread Karen: http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...you-think.html
          Cheeky, perhaps, but I was hoping the positive side could be encouraged etc. Looking at numbers, I'd say that overall negativity rules on the WF. Sad.
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          • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
            Originally Posted by David Braybrooke View Post

            Which is why I started this thread Karen: http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...you-think.html
            Cheeky, perhaps, but I was hoping the positive side could be encouraged etc. Looking at numbers, I'd say that overall negativity rules on the WF. Sad.
            I think that it might be, or is more likely because of, it probably
            seemed like a message or communication released and given
            to the public from the Department of Redundancy Department,
            which is the department were the thread may have been started
            from?

            In fact, reading both threads, and using the science of "counting",
            one may get the impression that there are far more people
            stating positive things about the future of the Internet and IM,
            and negativity most certainly does not rule the WF?

            :p
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  • Profile picture of the author David Braybrooke
    @TheRealDudeman - a digital nihilist or the new self-appointed 'god' of cyberspace? ... ;-)
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  • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
    And Chicken Little puts in an appearance.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sarevok
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Sarevok View Post

      The main advantage small business owners have now is "agile development" and "low cost of entry".

      Agile development will always be there. Anyone can start a training course, or a blog, or offer some type of service.

      Agile development will never go away.

      The problem, the real problem, is cost of entry.

      Think of it like this.

      There's a street in Boston called "Newbury street".

      It's a fancy street, and only rich business owners can afford to even THINK about opening a shop there.

      Now imagine for another second...

      The Internet is kindof like Newbury street.

      At first... When Newbury street was empty? You could probably sneak in a spot without it costing too much money... And without much effort.

      Now... There is such a high quantity of people who want that spot.

      Am I ranting? What does this have to do with the Internet?

      Well... Think about affordable ad buys.

      In the next 10 years?

      The cost of online advertising, in my opinion, will increase drastically. This is because big corporations will have no problem spending $5 per click.

      And there will be an overall increase in the quantity of people wanting to buy ads.

      This will make the cost of advertising increase.

      (Think about how the price of adwords increased over the last decade).

      Can newbies afford to pay $5 per click? No.

      Resources will also dry up; every domain you can think of will be owned or bought up by some filthy Mr. Burns type.

      Then there's government regulations.

      In my opinion, as long as people can send email unfettered and without taxation, it gives advantage and feasibility to small Internet startups.

      But what if the Gubment' started charging $.1 per email send?

      Infeasible right?

      Maybe... But in my opinion our Gubment would absolutely love to tax email. And they eventually will.

      And they don't give a **** about small business, so this is feasible to occur.

      Point of my disorganized rant: At this time, the small guy can still compete.

      In 10 years? 20 years?

      You better have already made your fortune.

      Just my $.02
      The government once DID plan to tax email. Interestingly enough, email is one of the overall most expensive propositions. If they charge a tax, they should pay all the players. It currently costs about 1/100 of one cent for EVERY HOP for EVERY KB/or portion thereof, for JUST the disk space! Realistically, it probably costs closer to 1/20 of a cent for every KB, all inclusive. THAT would mean the average email may cost about $0.015 per KB! NOW, how do they track all that and pay all the people? They would probably have to charge 2 cents per KB, or fraction thereof, just to hope to "FAIRLY" break even!

      REALIZE that MOST UNIX/LINUX systems store things in 1024 byte blocks. Not counting all the OTHER overhead, 1025 bytes takes up 2048 bytes of space! 1 byte takes 1024 bytes of space. The OTHER overhead is probably something like 260bytes per email, and maybe 4 bytes per additional 1024 bytes allocated to the email.

      BTW, this would ALSO give them a reason to request all logs from all hosts which will drive up costs for ALL, and violate the 1st and 4th amendments at the very least!

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author Sarevok
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        The government once DID plan to tax email. Interestingly enough, email is one of the overall most expensive propositions. If they charge a tax, they should pay all the players. It currently costs about 1/100 of one cent for EVERY HOP for EVERY KB/or portion thereof, for JUST the disk space! Realistically, it probably costs closer to 1/20 of a cent for every KB, all inclusive. THAT would mean the average email may cost about $0.015 per KB! NOW, how do they track all that and pay all the people? They would probably have to charge 2 cents per KB, or fraction thereof, just to hope to "FAIRLY" break even!

        REALIZE that MOST UNIX/LINUX systems store things in 1024 byte blocks. Not counting all the OTHER overhead, 1025 bytes takes up 2048 bytes of space! 1 byte takes 1024 bytes of space. The OTHER overhead is probably something like 260bytes per email, and maybe 4 bytes per additional 1024 bytes allocated to the email.

        BTW, this would ALSO give them a reason to request all logs from all hosts which will drive up costs for ALL, and violate the 1st and 4th amendments at the very least!

        Steve
        Hey man... I deleted that post because it was an ugly wall of text.

        Damn you!



        Stay cool
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  • Profile picture of the author DavidAllenNeron
    I don't buy into this notion at all, ..

    The problem is everyone is trying to do what everyone else is doing;

    When everything online was new, it was new.. people had to pioneer the way, they had to use their creativity and imagination.

    Now everyone is trying to copy the next guy instead of using their innate creativity and imagination to do something new.

    Just because they big corporations finally joined the online community doesn't mean anything for the "little guy" if that little guy uses his skills and imagination, after-all we were here first.
    Just because they have tons of money doesn't really mean anything either, how many of these giant corporations have pissed away or lost tons of their money by "trying" things that just didn't work? Look at it as a godsend..
    they're spending LOTS of money doing all the leg work that you don't have to now ... you can easily use their market research to give yourself an advantage.

    The future of IM is great, and there are no limits ... only the ones you set for yourself.

    but yes I do recognize the government meddling and I dislike it, but I don't think that's any reason to get discouraged.. on the contrary, it really leaves a lot of room for growth and ideas.
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  • As long as there are humans with needs and problems, there will be opportunities for smart marketers to help them and profit at the same time.

    This is just the beginning. You'll soon look back at the Internet of today and laugh, like we do when looking at angelfire sites from 1995. The opportunities are going to explode bigger and brighter than ever before.
    Signature
    Marketing is not a battle of products. It is a battle of perceptions.
    - Jack Trout
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  • Profile picture of the author Young Financier
    Because....people have caught on to the BS that goes on in IM. People are going to shop with legitimate businesses as far as commerce, but these people selling MMO products are feeling the heat because people have finally waken up and it's about time.
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    • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
      Nearly every business on the Internet is "Internet Marketing", hence sales and marketing managers, many of whom have an exclusive role to advertise their respective business(es) on the Internet...

      Digitial products are just one sector of IM.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    +200,000 people are born every single day, that's a boat load of new internet users. Do the math.
    Signature
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      +200,000 people are born every single day, that's a boat load of new internet users. Do the math.
      You made me want to cry just to prove a point? You are so MEAN.
      Signature

      Sal
      When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
      Beyond the Path

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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      +200,000 people are born every single day, that's a boat load of new internet users. Do the math.
      +200,000 new suckers are born every single day ... Do the math.

      Fixed that for ya.
      Signature
      “If I have seen further than others, it is by standing upon the shoulders of giants.” – Isaac Newton
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    • Profile picture of the author Devin X
      Banned
      Originally Posted by David Braybrooke View Post

      @TheRealDudeman - a digital nihilist or the new self-appointed 'god' of cyberspace? ... ;-)
      I'm a cynical guy, and I have friends who are internet millionaires and even they are getting nervous about the future...so it's not just little thousandaire me getting worked up.

      Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post

      And Chicken Little puts in an appearance.
      Originally Posted by Daniel Evans View Post

      If you have problems locating a seat in a cinema, are cinemas "dead"?

      Nearly every business on the Internet is "Internet Marketing", hence sales and marketing managers, many of whom have an exclusive role to advertise their respective business(es) on the Internet...

      Digitial products are just one sector of IM
      Well Cap'n Obvious, the thread clearly went way over your head. Your analogy sucks, too.

      Originally Posted by Big Rob View Post

      Congrats, OP.

      You managed to goad some of the most brilliant minds in the OT lounge into posting.

      Whether intentional or accidental, this is an insult to the integrity of the posters.

      Good Day,Troll.
      Hey, I needed to come up with a title that would get people reading...it worked, so HAH! G'day mate!

      Originally Posted by DavidAllenNeron View Post

      Just because they big corporations finally joined the online community doesn't mean anything for the "little guy" if that little guy uses his skills and imagination, after-all we were here first.
      No, you're mistaken. It means EVERYTHING. You sound like someone who's new to entrepreneurship, otherwise you wouldn't be saying things like, "the only limits are the ones you set yourself"...and other cutesy things like that.

      Other than that...L-O-L to the responses here. I'll stay on the rise, but for those who think I might be losing a screw...don't say I didn't warn you.
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      • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
        don't say I didn't warn you.
        it's a (hopefully) discussion.
        L-O-L to the responses here.
        If your business acumen is as strong as your ability to initiate and encourage discussion your information is undoubtedly an invaluable source to heed.....
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    • Profile picture of the author Christopher Fox
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      +200,000 people are born every single day, that's a boat load of new internet users. Do the math.
      Well, you have some fuzzy math going on. First of all, I do not know many toddlers that have paypal accounts. Secondly, where are most of those 200,000 people born? I'll tell you where most of them are NOT born - in first world countries with lots of disposable income to throw at $27 packets of BS, preying upon emotions to remove money from one's wallet, telling them how to make their wee wee grow.

      The people in this world that have the disposable income to give IMers are already online. Go ahead. Give everyone in Africa internet service.

      And watch your sales do nothing.

      Most of these 200,000 people will have a hard enough time finding food, let alone the disposable income to throw at 'information products.'

      I gave my take on this issue here:

      http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ny-colors.html

      Similar to the OP's, I think.
      Signature
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      - Seldom Seen Smith
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  • Profile picture of the author bertyounger
    Wait five minutes and it will all change!
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    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
      Originally Posted by TheRealDudeman View Post

      This is very true, however, rising costs of entry will further remove the feasibility that shoestrappers will be able to start a business in the future. I also neglected to mention that the line between an online and offline business is not blurring...they're combining so that the synthesis is a business that cannot survive in the new economy unless it is utilizing online marketing. This transformation will of course, also contribute to the rising costs of entry.



      Exactly. Like I said, it is becoming dominated by big business, so not only is the .com gold rush over...but the feasibility of being a quiet millionaire 1 man operation is also nil. I'm working towards it, but I see that we will have to create mid sized businesses if we are to essentially survive later on this decade. Small businesses and solopreneurs will have to suck it up and adapt...or go the way of the dodo.



      No, the internet is getting smaller and smaller. It's part of the law of power distribution and we are seeing this happen. The internet is being condensed to only the top authority sites which are all operated by big business. I hate to be the cynical one but you should be working towards building a mid-sized company...the one man operation or small business mentality will get you crushed by the giants in the later half of this decade. I'm sure of it. Forewarned is forearmed.



      Agreed. Being adaptive is part of the game here, but the times are changing and we're going to have to adapt even more to stay relevant and profitable. By adapt, I think we'll have to build bigger businesses. I don't think it will be possible to be a one person, million dollar enterprise in the near future. Costs of entry, rising operating costs, government regulations, and competition from the big businesses are going to whittle down the marketplace to a much smaller and much more competitive arena than it is today.



      I agree with you. But I think the landscape and dynamics are changing as I've explained above.



      No, the loopholes, ways, modes, and secrets are gone. It's down to the fundamentals, building a brand, and expanding your company to a larger and more influential presence. The traditional dream of working by yourself making millions is gone now, and not coming back. Adapt or die. And if you (plural) haven't even started yet, then you probably won't make it since the barriers to entry are rising quickly.



      I know the internet is older than 1990...but that's not the point and I didn't say it started then. I am talking about e-commerce and the phases of the market over the last few decades. It was wide open wild west at first, then it became saturated and a little restrictive, and it will become big business where we will have to adapt, or go the way of thousands of other small businesses when corporate chains and big box marts took over and eradicated them. Same thing is happening here. So this will affect us whether we're currently making 1,000,000/month or 1,000/month. I also think that the gov't will be adding more restrictions, and will probably levy a tax on remote purchases as well. I stand by what I've said. It will become impossible for people in the future to start a business because they will need a great deal of financial and intellectual capital to do so. It will also get really hard for those of us who are doing fine now...but will refuse to change along with the rest of the landscape. I think history has proven this, and I've been seeing it happen in my own time here since 07.



      Of course. But you'll need substantial capital to do so, especially in the near future.

      Nope, not true, as l am doing the above!

      I am doing high end graphics for a hub website with great SEO.

      And every graphic product l do, l get 50% of the asking price.

      So if l do a poster, and it makes $1000 a year, (average result) and l can do them quick enough, then it comes into millions after a few years of effort!

      The reason l stated the loophole before, is because this company puts about $1000 into Adwords everyday, the search function of this site is healthy!

      Or l just need to put up new products with similar kw's and the sales will take care of themselves.

      Which means l have found a way around the Adwords sky high kw issue or barrier!


      True it took me almost 6 years online to find this, and another good 2 or more years to be able to do the graphics to the level they want.

      As well as figure out how to purchase graphic material that allows third party sales, and speeds up rendering!


      So, there are ways, but l agree that the direct approach, is probably a dead horse! :rolleyes:


      Shane
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  • Profile picture of the author trader909
    Banned
    Simply too many knuckleheads thinking they are running a real business. It's fed on its-self. "blind selling to the blind"

    Many real business people simply ignore the net these days for getting leads. Too much fraud. B*S* around.
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  • Profile picture of the author trader909
    Banned
    I'm a cynical guy, and I have friends who are internet millionaires and even they are getting nervous about the future...so it's not just little thousandaire me getting worked up.
    They have millions and are nervous about ongoing business? Doesn't make sense.
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  • Profile picture of the author J50
    Just because you can't compete in a marketplace doesn't mean it's dead, there are stores still killing it on the high street.
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    • Profile picture of the author Devin X
      Banned
      Originally Posted by trader909 View Post

      They have millions and are nervous about ongoing business? Doesn't make sense.
      Why doesn't it make sense? They naturally don't want to lose what they have built, and nothing is stagnant. The only constant in life is change. Trust me, if you made that much money, you start worrying about how to keep that money...if you get lazy and complacent...you go the way of MC Hammer.

      Originally Posted by J50 View Post

      Just because you can't compete in a marketplace doesn't mean it's dead, there are stores still killing it on the high street.
      If you actually read the thread and my responses, you'd see that I'm not making a subjective argument. This has nothing to do with me or my own business. This has to do with the future of digital media, the internet landscape, and how it will affect all of our businesses whether we like it or not. Also, just because you make a declarative statement about whatever it is you're vaguely talking about...doesn't mean it's true. Just saying, dude.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Who is MC Hammer? lol

    All things cycle. Jeff Bezos of Amazon is aware Amazon could be knocked
    down, so he is always trying to innovate and make the most of their resources.
    Take Amazon Web Services as an example.

    Dan
    Signature

    "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      Who is MC Hammer? lol
      He's the guy with the puffy pants, not to be confused with the puffy shirt.

      BTW, you can't touch this.






      Signature
      Hi
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      • Profile picture of the author goindeep
        Lol @ ^^^

        The Internet is not dying and the future of IM is no better or worse.

        My opinion is simply that the beginning of the Internet was akin to the Wild West that's why so many people made such fast money.

        The principles of making money and building a business are the same as they were two thousand years ago.

        The reason info products died in the ass is because the man came down hard on scam artists that where claimining to solve every problem on the face of the Earth with a well priced piece of literature and the occasional fancy video or audio.

        Th Internet is simply a medium. You are what sells.
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        • Profile picture of the author Young Financier
          Originally Posted by goindeep View Post

          Lol @ ^^^

          The Internet is not dying and the future of IM is no better or worse.

          My opinion is simply that the beginning of the Internet was akin to the Wild West that's why so many people made such fast money.

          The principles of making money and building a business are the same as they were two thousand years ago.

          The reason info products died in the ass is because the man came down hard on scam artists that where claimining to solve every problem on the face of the Earth with a well priced piece of literature and the occasional fancy video or audio.

          Th Internet is simply a medium. You are what sells.
          Exactly...
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        • Profile picture of the author Devin X
          Banned
          Originally Posted by goindeep View Post

          if some huge business bought me out, i wouldnt be complaining.
          They won't buy you out though. They'll simply run you right over and drive you out of business...just like what's happened offline.

          Originally Posted by goindeep View Post

          The Internet is not dying and the future of IM is no better or worse.

          My opinion is simply that the beginning of the Internet was akin to the Wild West that's why so many people made such fast money.
          Uhhh if you read my OP, then you would know that I explained this already. Did you read the OP?

          Originally Posted by goindeep View Post

          The principles of making money and building a business are the same as they were two thousand years ago.
          That's not what is in question here. You're defending a position that I'm not arguing or contesting.

          Originally Posted by goindeep View Post

          The reason info products died in the ass is because the man came down hard on scam artists that where claimining to solve every problem on the face of the Earth with a well priced piece of literature and the occasional fancy video or audio.
          Like I said...you've supported my observations that things are changing. And as I've explained in my OP, as well as my responses, things are going to get much harder for the little guy and solopreneurs. The game is changing and soon there won't be artists and solopreneurs. There will only big mid-large size companies that dominate every niche/vertical and that will be that. You'll either own that company, or you'll work for one. Act accordingly.
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
    RealDudeMan,
    I do agree with you on one point: When growth turns toward innovation,
    collaboration becomes a vital tool in the businessperson's toolbox.

    That doesn't mean that a single person can't still make millions on his or her own--
    There are still people who do in both offline/online world. Most innovators
    in most markets, however, are going to have to have some degree of
    collaboration if they ever want to get past the "long hours for low reward"
    type of business.
    Signature

    The bartender says: "We don't serve faster-than-light particles here."

    ...A tachyon enters a bar.

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  • Profile picture of the author goindeep
    if some huge business bought me out, i wouldnt be complaining.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Hall
    over the past 5 years or so I Have notice that selling info products have lost a bit of breathing room, due to the fact that video sites like you tube have popped up every where and every tom, dick and harry is an expert and showing how to .... ,it seems many people find its easier to slap a bunch of videos up and try to make some quick coin via adsense than create a info product and sell it through sites like clickbank

    What's your thoughts on this?
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  • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
    Originally Posted by TheRealDudeman View Post

    Soon, you will either be part of the new economy owning a medium-large company, or you will be working for one.

    What do you think? I have more, but this isn't an article, it's a (hopefully) discussion.

    P.S. A lot of the responses have shown that people either didn't understand what this thread is about...or they didn't read the OP here. Please read the thread and think about the concepts here before chiming in.

    I don't believe this for a minute. I believe there will still be room for the solopreneur but he or she will have to simply adapt to changes. I have seen big changes online since 1997 - I adapted - I changed - and I changed again.

    Will it be more challenging to be a successful independent internet marketer? Probably - but a true entrepreneur is always up for a challenge, right?
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  • Profile picture of the author JakeRhodes
    Internet marketing isn't dying, it's just becoming more competitive.

    I would say though that the search engines (particularly Google) seem to be changing their algorithms to make it harder for smaller businesses to rank highly. However search engines aren't the only way to attract potential customers to your website.
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  • Profile picture of the author KevMason
    Hey man,

    You touched on a real good point there and feel it is one that many people in the business, need to fully understand yet embrace.

    Personally I feel this new era we are entering where things are more organised and professional is in fact better than the previous one, as it gives the look and feel that customers demand, and allows us to serve them better.

    Though we all missed the Tech Bubble (fuming even now lol) where we currently are has its benefits take for instance.

    -We can know enter into almost ANY market without the traditional start up associated with it (ignore HealthCare.org)

    - We have the ability to get great intel research as to what is working in the industry in REAL time to save time and money.

    - Have a number of superb sources to generate traffic to our websites/blogs (Search, Video, Media Buys, Email, Facebook, Content Generation)

    - Can connect with BIG players in our industry, example many new guys have the potential to communicate with a guy such as Frank Kern. That is like someone starting trying to sell PC's in the 90's and having direct contact to Michael Dell.

    - There is waaaaay more people connected to the Internet now compared to old school times and it is only growing based on the use of Mobile/Tablet Devices oh and FaceBook!

    - If you have a bright idea you could have the potential to get funding from people that you have never even met before in order to start your project through Crowdsourcing!


    Though I agree with what "TheRealDudeman" is saying, I feel we as Marketers/Product Cretaion and Digital guys need to realize we have a special talent knowing how to attract traffic, convert it and actually creating something of value that someone would actually want to part their finances with.


    To the next digital Era....
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    Online Marketing Tips & Training Check Out >>TheOnlineTrapstar.com

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    • Profile picture of the author Janet Sawyer
      Originally Posted by KevMason View Post

      Hey man,

      You touched on a real good point there and feel it is one that many people in the business, need to fully understand yet embrace.

      -We can know enter into almost ANY market without the traditional start up associated with it (ignore HealthCare.org)

      - We have the ability to get great intel research as to what is working in the industry in REAL time to save time and money.

      - Have a number of superb sources to generate traffic to our websites/blogs (Search, Video, Media Buys, Email, Facebook, Content Generation)

      - Can connect with BIG players in our industry, example many new guys have the potential to communicate with a guy such as Frank Kern. That is like someone starting trying to sell PC's in the 90's and having direct contact to Michael Dell.

      - There is waaaaay more people connected to the Internet now compared to old school times and it is only growing based on the use of Mobile/Tablet Devices oh and FaceBook!

      - If you have a bright idea you could have the potential to get funding from people that you have never even met before in order to start your project through Crowdsourcing!


      Though I agree with what "TheRealDudeman" is saying, I feel we as Marketers/Product Cretaion and Digital guys need to realize we have a special talent knowing how to attract traffic, convert it and actually creating something of value that someone would actually want to part their finances with.


      To the next digital Era....
      Bait AND switch going on here folks.

      Pre sell to a WSO?
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      • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
        Internet dying for IM, being swollowed up by big corps, bull. Back in 1998 I bought a Windows 98 computer and it was thought then that it would would be only big corporations that would take advantage, hence all computers were shipped with links to AOL, MSN and a few others on the desktop. Portholes to the web. You don't see that anymore.

        If I search for something specific like a lot of people do you often end up getting the software or item from a small business site, yep, sometimes it's Amazon for sure but not always.

        There are new products all the time, there are ever changing ways to market them. You see companies and small two people operations popping up on Shark Tank telling them they created an improved version of this or that or something new and done a site and a bit of social media and sold loads already, just online! At no real expense.

        Also the offering of services is a great money maker for big guns and smaller niche operations. Fiverr, new company offering a marketplace to sell for the small guy. People are earning.

        Its just getting better, people aren't relying on seach engines so much to find stuff either. A lot of people buy there stuff via recomendations from facebook or other social media sites. If the likes of google, Bing restricted there results to big corps, they would be deserted as people become fed up with it.

        And let us not forget, affiliate marketing. If all else fails you can do that and make money. And sure, you may stick with Amazon, Clickbank and CJ for this but these outfits see the value of referal and I doubt if they will ever drop that one!

        Even if your frightened of mobile's and small screen tablets getting a lot of traffic compared to pc's and laptops and don't like the idea of having to make your site mobile friendly, whats happening, the screens are getting bigger, resolution going up so ordinary sites are rendering ok on them. I expect smarter software for site making that adjusts automatically for smaller screens will be on us soon enough, and of course more intellegent browsers that ensure good rendering.

        Nothing to fear as yet in my book. too many niches to exploit and new ones all the time. Not to mention fresh ideas.
        Signature

        Where ever you go, there you are.

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  • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
    The internet is a disruptive technology, perhaps the most disruptive in history.

    Out of the ashes of old, expensive, inefficient business models rise the phoenixes of better ways of doing stuff.

    The bold and the innovative will always challenge the established. A few of the established will incorporate boldness and innovation into their way of thinking and become even more established. Many of the established will fight against it, but eventually they too will have to innovate or else perish.

    'Twas ever thus.

    Or, if you'd prefer, nothing to see here folks, move along.
    Signature
    Arguing with an idiot is like playing chess with a pigeon.
    It'll just knock over all the pieces, poop on the board, and strut about like it's won anyway.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Um....hey, Real Dude.

    I think we "get" what you're saying. Corporations/gov took over everything offline and they're trying to do the same thing to the Net now and soon unless you are a large corp or just have furious amounts of spending cash to get your sites listed, you're going nowhere. Right? That was it, yes?

    Let's examine the issue.
    Business trends are always changing and we are entering into hardcore fascism (no - you don't have to have concentration camps to have fascism, so get over that one), where large corporations have taken over legislation and have trampled mom and pop endeavors all over - at least all over the States. Not sure what's going on elsewhere. So you're expecting it to melt onto the internet and eventually only the rich will be able to afford an online business.

    Right so far?
    1. What happens with all the companies that are actually making mega bucks offering cheap hosting? How much can they raise the "rent" before it backfires on them?
    2. Millions of peope "own" net real-estate already. How far can companies making fortunes on real-estate (domains) jack the rent for that real estate before it backfires on them?

    When companies are making millions or billions because of masses of people who pay them small fees, if they start to raise the rent, business declines. If they raise it enough, they have to then raise it enough more that they can cover that much ground with few subscribers. Exactly how far can they go without tanking their own profit margin?

    Secondly - keeping pricing for the real estate low is a very commonly known tactic to beat the snot out of competition - look at Walmart for an example of that principle.

    So as far as real estate - only a government take over of that sector will make an irrational price increase possible. I don't think people will stand for that these days. I think any rep in the US that tries that one is looking at the unemployment line. People are starting to recall reps for this kind of crap now. We're watching a global resistance starting up already.

    2. It's almost impossible to compete with major corporations.
    In paid search engine traffic alone, this has always been true. The bigger the company, the larger the advertising campaign fund. That's why the little guy has always had to have other means of getting views. It will always be that way. That's why "content is king". Unless someone goes online seeking only for the purpose of buying a specific type of product, if you have the info they are searching for, the search engine will provide it. Of course, search engines can be bought off, too - google is a great example. There are always a few loopholes here or there that the little guy can use to get through.

    3. What actually will sell online will always be changing. People might not be so hot on the WSO type product that is prevalent online now. Too many people that had no wits whatsoever other than to copycat (or sometimes outrightly steal) for certain aspects of that market to continue to draw attention. Either the information becomes stale or the viewers just become more savvy. I'm a socio-linguist and knew from the get that the over-hyped sales letter was not going to be viable for too long. People that only know how to do the traditional hype are already starting to lose their edge. That's just business as normal - offline as well as online. Business evolves and so do business tactics. Audiences become savvy and as they do, it's harder to sell anything that isn't pure quality. Look at the article writing market. Competition drove prices to slave wage levels -- however, those that are actually professionals in the field still command a pretty good price for their work. The writing market hasn't collapsed. It got filled with competitors that really weren't suited for the field, and people that used these writers -- well, you can find them in the main forum whining about google slapping the snot out of them. This isn't a bad thing for the real pro's in the field, though - just for the under-qualified wanna-be's.

    3. If you can't compete, sometimes you can team up with the big guys. Writers - amazon, B&N, etc.

    4. There are always niches in areas that the big guys aren't going to bother with. Some, such as craft or hobby niches will need to go offline as well to bring in the bucks when it's all tolled, but there will still be those areas online. I've got a rock and gem hunting site. I really can't compete with local rock shops or the lapidary corporations for prices on products - but there are things I can compete with and there are also offline areas that I can look forward to making money that will essentially be there because I have the online real estate in the field that draws the pertinent crowds.

    Then look at the stats, too. Only 5% online ever DID make it online. With figures like those, you have to figure that 95% just never figure it out in the first place. They either don't have the discipline, skills, or knowledge to do it. For those in the 5% - changes in the way things are done aren't going to present much of a problem. They have the skills to get around the business world whether it's online or offline.

    Basically, the only way you're going to stop the actual professional marketer is if Congress issues a law that everyone has to work for a major corporation and small businesses and entrepreneurship are illegal. If it comes to that we've got a LOT more problems than little crap like business online.
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    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

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