Snow in the Middle East!

by LarryC
62 replies
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No matter what you think about manmade global warming, it's hard to deny that the climate is changing. It's snowing for the first time in over a century in the Middle East. I especially like the photo of the camel in the snow.

Snow Blankets Middle East and Hits Egypt For First Time in Century [PHOTOS]
  • Profile picture of the author LynnM
    The picture of the refugees playing in the snow (although it's good to see some lightheartedness) doesn't exactly match the reality of how the snow is affecting them:
    BBC News - Syrian refugees in Lebanon hit by winter storm
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    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
      Yep, Europe is obviously experiencing a mini ice age, world temp, haven't moved much in 15 years, but the BS, money grabbing F**** wits are still out there!


      I know l can't talk politics, but there are some seriously insane young politically inclined people in AU, who will ignore this!

      I think that we should get all the brainwashed, greenies on a plane and send them over there? :rolleyes:


      I suspect with weird weather like this, that we will wake up in 10 or 20 years time, and realize that we are actually in a mini ice age, (we might realize it, when the Thames river in England freezes over again).


      Although by then this man made GW will switch over to Man Made Global Cooling, with the associated, we will all be dead or starving by the year 2100 BS?


      Money is the root of all stupidity! :rolleyes:


      Shane
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by LynnM View Post

      The picture of the refugees playing in the snow (although it's good to see some lightheartedness) doesn't exactly match the reality of how the snow is affecting them:
      BBC News - Syrian refugees in Lebanon hit by winter storm

      What do you do, Lynn - it's a problem for the place, but ya just gotta know anywhere snow hits, kids and dogs are going to be playing in it. In fact - a lot of those people have never seen the stuff before, so they're going to have a little fun even if in the grand scheme of things it's going to make life heck for awhile.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Well, it is NOT global! it is LOCAL! and there are reasons to doubt it is manmade though deforestation and the population explosion will likely kill the human race BEFORE the temperature will.

    When I was a kid, they said we would have another ICE AGE! THEN, they said we would BOIL! THEN they realized that that was wrong, and said it would change. ******DUH******!

    They have said for MILLENIA that NOTHING is perfect! That includes this planet! They have said for a LONG time that this planet is moving not only on ALL AXISs, but in its polar position. Weather does NOT follow the land! If it did, we would have NO TIDE, NO WIND, NO SEASONS, etc..... NO, it does NOT follow the land! It follows the RELATION of the land to everything else, sun moon, etc.... HEY, HEYSAL spoke of how removing plant life will make land more arid. It ALSO means there will be less oxygen, which means more CO2. MANY countries WANT to have LOTS of people, which means LESS O2 and MORE CO2!

    So there is one constant! YEAH! ONE CONSTANT! FINALLY! So what is it? CHANGE!

    But WHY do we even discuss this? HEY, I LIKE the idea of getting rid of the flourocarbon aerosols used a LOT in various things. STILL, there is a LOT of waste! I like how they cut down on paper, but they INCREASED the use which made things WORSE! They SUPPOSEDLY outlawed freon in the 1990s, But it is a real SCAM! They STILL sell freon, though it is SUPPOSEDLY less dangerous, and they have designed a world wide obsolescence into various goods. It ALREADY affected my 1991 VW Jetta and NOW, it has affected the airconditioner on my home. I am told that if it loses freon(someone STOLE it once already), that it will cost over $500 to recharge! When I was a kid, I could do this MYSELF for less than $10! I was ALSO told that within about 5 years, I will have to get a NEW airconditioner that will have a restricted life, and it will be about 3 TIMES as large! IMAGINE the extra CO2 created to move the conditioners and power everything!

    In short, the solution is WORSE than the problem they claim they are trying to solve! Some will get RICH though! THOUSANDS of dollars to do what in the 1980s would cost like $10? Getting something that will have a planned life of 5 years, and USED to be more like 50? GIVE ME A BREAK!

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    It's not localized, Steve - we have more ice at both poles right now than we've had in.....I believe the number has risen to 25 years now. This is the progressively colder winter now in around 3 or 4 years. If someone doesn't like that statement - just go check out weather histories around the world.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      It's not localized, Steve - we have more ice at both poles right now than we've had in.....I believe the number has risen to 25 years now. This is the progressively colder winter now in around 3 or 4 years. If someone doesn't like that statement - just go check out weather histories around the world.
      By localized, I wasn't saying it wasn't a global phenomena, but that the weather changes were local. let's say everything else were perfect, and the world merely shifted 3 degrees, areas would get warmer, other areas would get colder, but if the communicated with one another, they would realize that the GLOBAL weather never changed, but simply their LOCAL share of it.

      I STILL say that our time would be better spent with weather trying to limit population, and bringing back plant life. Those that talk MOST about poverty and starvation, as a country, and have a bigger problem with it almost ALWAYS seem to be the ones ensuring that the problem can NEVER be solved! They seem to think that if those that eat a lot cut down, and those that were rich paid the poor almost every penny, that the problem would be solved. HECK, a lot of fat people even get fat not because of eating so much, but eating the wrong things.

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author myob
        My oh my, how quickly some have forgotten the record-breaking hot summers in many areas of the world in recent years. Extremes of weather is becoming the new norm, as the average global temperature continues to rise. Global warming now is THE driver for climate change, including extremes of cold excursions due to weather pattern shifts from the polar regions and increasing amounts of atmospheric water vapor from warming of the oceans. Global changes are amplified most dramatically in the Arctic and spill over into other continents as a result.

        As data points and accuracies in measurement instruments improve, there is a very strong and growing consensus among climatologists that the planet is warming. Atmospheric CO2 accumulation has surpassed the highest levels ever recorded since prehistoric times. The direct effect that increasing levels of CO2 has on global temperatures has been studied and well-known for more than a century - a la the runaway greenhouse effect on planet Venus. CO2 is the culprit, and we are doing this to ourselves through burning of fossil fuels.
        Carbon is Forever - Nature journal Nov 20, 2008

        For years, environmentalists have maintained that industry knew early on that the scientific evidence supported a human influence on rising temperatures, but that the evidence was ignored for the sake of companies’ fight against curbs on greenhouse gas emissions. Some environmentalists have compared the tactic to that once used by tobacco companies, which for decades insisted that the science linking cigarette smoking to lung cancer was uncertain.

        By questioning the science on global warming and playing on the low scientific education among the general public, groups like the Global Climate Coalition were able to sow enough doubt to blunt public concern about a consequential issue and delay government action. A document filed in a federal lawsuit demonstrates that even as the coalition worked to sway opinion, its own scientific and technical experts were advising that the science backing the role of greenhouse gases in global warming could not be refuted.
        Industry Ignored Its Scientists on Climate - NY Times April 24, 2009
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        • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
          The Earth, left to it's devices periodically freezes over completely, then, Vulcanism kicks in and melts it. Our time here is finite anyway. We are just a fleeting blip in the Earths history. The Earth provides times of temperate stable climates conducive to life then takes them away.

          The eventual re-eruption of the Yellowstone super-volcano for instance will kick up enough dust and ash to blot out the sun for 1000 years worldwide thus extinguishing us and most other life.

          If global warming due to us is true and left unchecked then the overheating will extinguish life. We will not survive it. It only delays the inevitable though, The Earth will eventually recover over a long period to resume it's natural cycles.

          So no reason not to help keep it green, clean and lush for as long as possible. give ourselves some time to spread out to other worlds perhaps.
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          • Profile picture of the author HeySal
            Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

            The Earth, left to it's devices periodically freezes over completely, then, Vulcanism kicks in and melts it. Our time here is finite anyway. We are just a fleeting blip in the Earths history. The Earth provides times of temperate stable climates conducive to life then takes them away.

            The eventual re-eruption of the Yellowstone super-volcano for instance will kick up enough dust and ash to blot out the sun for 1000 years worldwide thus extinguishing us and most other life.

            If global warming due to us is true and left unchecked then the overheating will extinguish life. We will not survive it. It only delays the inevitable though, The Earth will eventually recover over a long period to resume it's natural cycles.

            So no reason not to help keep it green, clean and lush for as long as possible. give ourselves some time to spread out to other worlds perhaps.
            That's about the size of it. We actually had a pretty nice inter-glacial period this time around. Allowed us to over-breed sufficiently enough to tear stuff up more than a tad, though.

            Steve -- gottcha. Miscommunication. BTW - I think you said something about axis? The electromagnetic pole is cranking toward Siberia right now at 40 miles per year - that's really fast. It was already fast at the 25 miles a year it was moving for the last decade or so. It's moved far enough now that physical matter is starting to align back with it, so that will change the axis points some. We've had a few electro-magnetic pole shifts in the last 200 years and we've gotten some huge quakes the last few years from this shift as the magnetic pole has really shifted from the geological pole -- so if the axis hasn't moved yet, it's working on it. (No it won't be catastrophic, just a few degrees of shift).
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            • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
              Originally Posted by myob View Post

              My oh my, how quickly some have forgotten the record-breaking hot summers in many areas of the world in recent years. Extremes of weather is becoming the new norm, as the average global temperature continues to rise. Global warming now is THE driver for climate change, including extremes of cold excursions due to weather pattern shifts from the polar regions and increasing amounts of atmospheric water vapor from warming of the oceans. Global changes are amplified most dramatically in the Arctic and spill over into other continents as a result.

              As data points and accuracies in measurement instruments improve, there is a very strong and growing consensus among climatologists that the planet is warming. Atmospheric CO2 accumulation has surpassed the highest levels ever recorded since prehistoric times. The direct effect that increasing levels of CO2 has on global temperatures has been studied and well-known for more than a century - a la the runaway greenhouse effect on planet Venus. CO2 is the culprit, and we are doing this to ourselves through burning of fossil fuels.
              Carbon is Forever - Nature journal Nov 20, 2008

              For years, environmentalists have maintained that industry knew early on that the scientific evidence supported a human influence on rising temperatures, but that the evidence was ignored for the sake of companies' fight against curbs on greenhouse gas emissions. Some environmentalists have compared the tactic to that once used by tobacco companies, which for decades insisted that the science linking cigarette smoking to lung cancer was uncertain.

              By questioning the science on global warming and playing on the low scientific education among the general public, groups like the Global Climate Coalition were able to sow enough doubt to blunt public concern about a consequential issue and delay government action. A document filed in a federal lawsuit demonstrates that even as the coalition worked to sway opinion, its own scientific and technical experts were advising that the science backing the role of greenhouse gases in global warming could not be refuted.
              Industry Ignored Its Scientists on Climate - NY Times April 24, 2009
              Right so the planet is warming, but we are getting snow in the Middle Eastern Deserts????

              Can't argue with that logic! :rolleyes:


              Shane
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              • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

                Right so the planet is warming, but we are getting snow in the Middle Eastern Deserts????

                Can't argue with that logic! :rolleyes:


                Shane
                Yes, the earth is warming, it causes erratic weather patterns, shifts in the gulf stream, shut downs in the gulf stream as well. So places that never get snow, do. Nothing suprising here.

                The overall trend is warming.

                Even more worrying than C02 tipping the balance is the amount of Methane gas locked up in the cold ocean floor and in frozen wastes like Siberia, Greenland etc. Trillions and Trillions of tons that could be released into the atmosphere due to warming and Siberia and especially Greenland showing strong signs of warming. Siberia's land oil pipelines were anchored to the permafrost to an extent, now showing signs of instability.

                Methane Gas is 25 times more potent than co2 as a sun trapping gas and stays up a lot longer. A few degrees warmer causing melt could increase warming a lot faster by the release of this gas, than we anticipate. Methane Gas is often swept under the carpet by the media because it just too depressing to think about. It's also highly inflamable.
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                • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                  Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                  Yes, the earth is warming, it causes erratic weather patterns, shifts in the gulf stream, shut downs in the gulf stream as well. So places that never get snow, do. Nothing suprising here.

                  The overall trend is warming.

                  Even more worrying than C02 tipping the balance is the amount of Methane gas locked up in the cold ocean floor and in frozen wastes like Siberia, Greenland etc. Trillions and Trillions of tons that could be released into the atmosphere due to warming and Siberia and especially Greenland showing strong signs of warming. Siberia's land oil pipelines were anchored to the permafrost to an extent, now showing signs of instability.

                  Methane Gas is 25 times more potent than co2 as a sun trapping gas and stays up a lot longer. A few degrees warmer causing melt could increase warming a lot faster by the release of this gas, than we anticipate. Methane Gas is often swept under the carpet by the media because it just too depressing to think about. It's also highly inflamable.
                  Methane IS flammable. That will release CO2! But HEY, the amount of methane is skyrocketing ANYWAY! AGAIN, POPULATION!

                  Steve
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                  • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                    Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                    It's not localized, Steve - we have more ice at both poles right now than we've had in.....I believe the number has risen to 25 years now. This is the progressively colder winter now in around 3 or 4 years. If someone doesn't like that statement - just go check out weather histories around the world.
                    I am using Sal as an example, she shouldn't mind!

                    Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                    Yes, the earth is warming, it causes erratic weather patterns, shifts in the gulf stream, shut downs in the gulf stream as well. So places that never get snow, do. Nothing suprising here.

                    The overall trend is warming.

                    Even more worrying than C02 tipping the balance is the amount of Methane gas locked up in the cold ocean floor and in frozen wastes like Siberia, Greenland etc. Trillions and Trillions of tons that could be released into the atmosphere due to warming and Siberia and especially Greenland showing strong signs of warming. Siberia's land oil pipelines were anchored to the permafrost to an extent, now showing signs of instability.

                    Methane Gas is 25 times more potent than co2 as a sun trapping gas and stays up a lot longer. A few degrees warmer causing melt could increase warming a lot faster by the release of this gas, than we anticipate. Methane Gas is often swept under the carpet by the media because it just too depressing to think about. It's also highly inflamable.
                    Originally Posted by myob View Post

                    The atmosphere is only a small part of the warming. In the last 50 years alone, the average global temperature has risen by about 0.4°C. It doesn't sound like much, but on a larger timescale this represents a very rapid increase and an immense amount of additional energy in the atmosphere, the oceans, glaciers and ice. That energy shows up unevenly as more extremes of weather and more water vapor in the atmosphere.

                    Unless strong measures are taken to reduce CO2 emissions, the IPCC projects that the planet will warm 2.5-4°C over the next century. That's a net warming in the ballpark of 3 to 5 times as much as over the 20th century. Regional weather extremes of heat, cold, rain, snow, violent storms, etc are occurring more frequently as thermal dynamics alter the seasons. Snow in arid regions is not an unexpected result in the meteorological physics of the global warming model.

                    Ok, so snow on Earths deserts and a mini ice age in Europe at present, and Earths poles gaining more ice then they have in recent times, and world tem, not doing anything much over the last 15 years, still means world temp, are still rising, and we will all be fried in 90 years, (based on projections)? :rolleyes:

                    I am tempted to use the hell freezing over quote!


                    But to me heat melts ice!


                    And all the tech, talk in the world won't change that!


                    But if you enjoy believing that Man Made GW is real then it is!


                    I would rather believe that heat melts ice, instead of heat is building up in the worlds oceans, and will be released when the Earths water currents change, and CO2 emissions reach critical mass, blah, blah.


                    But as said before l can't argue simple concepts with complexity, it seems to be self defeating.


                    Shane
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                    • Profile picture of the author myob
                      Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

                      Ok, so snow on Earths deserts and a mini ice age in Europe at present, and Earths poles gaining more ice then they have in recent times, and world tem, not doing anything much over the last 15 years, still means world temp, are still rising, and we will all be fried in 90 years, (based on projections)? :rolleyes:

                      I am tempted to use the hell freezing over quote!


                      But to me heat melts ice!


                      And all the tech, talk in the world won't change that!


                      But if you enjoy believing that Man Made GW is real then it is!


                      I would rather believe that heat melts ice, instead of heat is building up in the worlds oceans, and will be released when the Earths water currents change, and CO2 emissions reach critical mass, blah, blah.


                      But as said before l can't argue simple concepts with complexity, it seems to be self defeating.


                      Shane
                      You seem to have ignored all my explanations and references. Perhaps you missed the record-breaking heat wave over much of Europe during the summer of 2013, and the new heat records set in the southeastern Australia summer.

                      However, part of your logic appears to be somewhat salvageable:
                      "But to me heat melts ice!"

                      Polar ice sheets melting faster than ever

                      Melting Polar Ice Cap Created A Lake On Top Of The World
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                    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                      Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

                      I am using Sal as an example, she shouldn't mind!






                      Ok, so snow on Earths deserts and a mini ice age in Europe at present, and Earths poles gaining more ice then they have in recent times, and world tem, not doing anything much over the last 15 years, still means world temp, are still rising, and we will all be fried in 90 years, (based on projections)? :rolleyes:

                      I am tempted to use the hell freezing over quote!


                      But to me heat melts ice!


                      And all the tech, talk in the world won't change that!


                      But if you enjoy believing that Man Made GW is real then it is!


                      I would rather believe that heat melts ice, instead of heat is building up in the worlds oceans, and will be released when the Earths water currents change, and CO2 emissions reach critical mass, blah, blah.


                      But as said before l can't argue simple concepts with complexity, it seems to be self defeating.


                      Shane
                      LMAO. Just asked the question the other day - how cold does it have to get and for how long for people to understand it actually is getting cold out. We could've gone to Antarctica before this last snow and taken some measurements from right over the mantle plume for "warming" evidence, Shane......a little late now. Oh well - maybe in another couple thousand years huh?

                      Hey I know - wanna freak out the warming doomsday crowd? Go to this site and monitor sun activities - when there's decent size flares during decent solar winds we can run outside and take measurements of the temporarily warmed atmosphere and report high findings and watch everyone try to find caves to hide in. LMAO.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
                      Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

                      ...and a mini ice age in Europe at present
                      Hi Shane,

                      Now, I'm not going to get involved in this endless debate of which I'm not remotely qualified to comment on.

                      However, I live in Europe and it's the 16th December today and it was 11 oC when I got up this morning. Now I appreciate as an Aussie that would qualify as an ice age temperature but I can assure you it feels positively warm here today.

                      Not only that it was the hottest summer here in seven years with all of July getting above 30 oC.

                      Forgive me but where in Europe are they experiencing a mini ice age as I've heard nothing about it?
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                      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                        Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

                        Hi Shane,

                        Now, I'm not going to get involved in this endless debate of which I'm not remotely qualified to comment on.

                        However, I live in Europe and it's the 16th December today and it was 11 oC when I got up this morning. Now I appreciate as an Aussie that would qualify as an ice age temperature but I can assure you it feels positively warm here today.

                        Not only that it was the hottest summer here in seven years with all of July getting above 30 oC.

                        Forgive me but where in Europe are they experiencing a mini ice age as I've heard nothing about it?

                        We're not at ice age yet, so don't try to build any igloos and expect them to stick around any too long, right.

                        It's funny -- we had 4 days of severe cold.......I'm talking from 10 above zero (F of course) to 26 below zero -- and after those 4 days it went up to 33 degrees - and that actually FELT warm in the sunshine. LOL. It's hitting the low side of normal cold now. Just hope that Jan and Feb, which are the coldest months here, don't slap us with any more of those record low temps this year. When it gets too cold to snow - it's just too cold.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
                          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                          We're not at ice age yet, so don't try to build any igloos and expect them to stick around any too long, right.

                          It's funny -- we had 4 days of severe cold.......I'm talking from 10 above zero (F of course) to 26 below zero -- and after those 4 days it went up to 33 degrees - and that actually FELT warm in the sunshine. LOL. It's hitting the low side of normal cold now. Just hope that Jan and Feb, which are the coldest months here, don't slap us with any more of those record low temps this year. When it gets too cold to snow - it's just too cold.
                          Hi Sal,

                          Yes I was just confused when Shane said we're in an ice age at present

                          ...and a mini ice age in Europe at present
                          Which I was blissfully unaware of or getting far too acclimatized to the cold!

                          I must admit, the last 3 years have been very cold here with snow which we wouldn't normally get, although members of my family always talk about the good old days when it snowed every Christmas.

                          This year was very odd, we even had snow in March and everything was very late sprouting, then when it did come, it was a superb summer.

                          The weather, or specifically British weather, baffles me but it has done that to Brits since the dawn of time and we always have the piss taken out of us for endlessly discussing the weather.

                          Hence the reason I try and stay out of weather debates, that and my frank admission it confuses the hell out of me.

                          tagiscom - Well l am just projecting on a likely outcome
                          Gotcha Shane, I thought I was going loopy.
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                          • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                            Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

                            Hi Sal,

                            Yes I was just confused when Shane said we're in an ice age at present



                            Which I was blissfully unaware of or getting far too acclimatized to the cold!

                            I must admit, the last 3 years have been very cold here with snow which we wouldn't normally get, although members of my family always talk about the good old days when it snowed every Christmas.

                            This year was very odd, we even had snow in March and everything was very late sprouting, then when it did come, it was a superb summer.

                            The weather, or specifically British weather, baffles me but it has done that to Brits since the dawn of time and we always have the piss taken out of us for endlessly discussing the weather.

                            Hence the reason I try and stay out of weather debates, that and my frank admission it confuses the hell out of me.



                            Gotcha Shane, I thought I was going loopy.
                            Hmmm, well give it a couple of years! :rolleyes:

                            But if the Thames river freezes over as it did last time, let us know! Then we should be able to call it a mini ice age!


                            Yep l wanted to keep out of this as well, true that oceans are getting warmer, (likely anyway) but if everything on the continents are freezing, then, it clearly doesn't translate into reliable data.


                            It is a bit like saying that build a house directly below a nuclear bomb and instead of it vaporizing it will just get flung away in pieces, (which is true, by the way).

                            But build it a reasonable distance away and it will disappear, in the initial blast.


                            I think that the doomsayers need to recognize that the data doesn't fit together, and that black and white predictions, (100 years) is virtually impossible!


                            Shane :rolleyes:
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                            • Profile picture of the author myob
                              Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

                              Yep l wanted to keep out of this as well, true that oceans are getting warmer, (likely anyway) but if everything on the continents are freezing, then, it clearly doesn't translate into reliable data.
                              This is a very common yet unfounded misconception. Everything is not "freezing" - weather is becoming increasingly erratic with wide swings in temperatures, unseasonal precipitation, devastating storms and floods, etc.

                              As shown previously, the oceans are warming, and absorb up to 97% of the heat retained through AGW. Put simplistically, the clashes between warm, moisture-laden air from the oceans with cold fronts from the melting polar regions are altering global weather patterns and becoming increasingly violent.

                              And the apparent expansion of polar sea ice is partially due to the melting of Arctic and Antarctic continental ice, ocean/ice shelf interaction, wind/ocean currents, and iceberg decay.

                              The comparatively thin surface sea ice area (typically only about 3-6 feet thick) masks the fact that continental ice mass in these regions is in strong decline.
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                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                  Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                  . It's also highly inflamable.
                  Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                  Methane IS flammable.
                  Steve
                  I think this nicely encapsulates the essence of this discussion.
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              • Profile picture of the author myob
                Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

                Right so the planet is warming, but we are getting snow in the Middle Eastern Deserts????

                Can't argue with that logic! :rolleyes:


                Shane
                The atmosphere is only a small part of the warming. In the last 50 years alone, the average global temperature has risen by about 0.4°C. It doesn't sound like much, but on a larger timescale this represents a very rapid increase and an immense amount of additional energy in the atmosphere, the oceans, glaciers and ice. That energy shows up unevenly as more extremes of weather and more water vapor in the atmosphere.

                Unless strong measures are taken to reduce CO2 emissions, the IPCC projects that the planet will warm 2.5–4°C over the next century. That's a net warming in the ballpark of 3 to 5 times as much as over the 20th century. Regional weather extremes of heat, cold, rain, snow, violent storms, etc are occurring more frequently as thermal dynamics alter the seasons. Snow in arid regions is not an unexpected result in the meteorological physics of the global warming model.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Has anyone told them don't eat yellow snow?
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    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      Well, it is NOT global! it is LOCAL! and there are reasons to doubt it is manmade though deforestation and the population explosion will likely kill the human race BEFORE the temperature will.

      When I was a kid, they said we would have another ICE AGE! THEN, they said we would BOIL! THEN they realized that that was wrong, and said it would change. ******DUH******!

      They have said for MILLENIA that NOTHING is perfect! That includes this planet! They have said for a LONG time that this planet is moving not only on ALL AXISs, but in its polar position. Weather does NOT follow the land! If it did, we would have NO TIDE, NO WIND, NO SEASONS, etc..... NO, it does NOT follow the land! It follows the RELATION of the land to everything else, sun moon, etc.... HEY, HEYSAL spoke of how removing plant life will make land more arid. It ALSO means there will be less oxygen, which means more CO2. MANY countries WANT to have LOTS of people, which means LESS O2 and MORE CO2!

      So there is one constant! YEAH! ONE CONSTANT! FINALLY! So what is it? CHANGE!

      But WHY do we even discuss this? HEY, I LIKE the idea of getting rid of the flourocarbon aerosols used a LOT in various things. STILL, there is a LOT of waste! I like how they cut down on paper, but they INCREASED the use which made things WORSE! They SUPPOSEDLY outlawed freon in the 1990s, But it is a real SCAM! They STILL sell freon, though it is SUPPOSEDLY less dangerous, and they have designed a world wide obsolescence into various goods. It ALREADY affected my 1991 VW Jetta and NOW, it has affected the airconditioner on my home. I am told that if it loses freon(someone STOLE it once already), that it will cost over $500 to recharge! When I was a kid, I could do this MYSELF for less than $10! I was ALSO told that within about 5 years, I will have to get a NEW airconditioner that will have a restricted life, and it will be about 3 TIMES as large! IMAGINE the extra CO2 created to move the conditioners and power everything!

      In short, the solution is WORSE than the problem they claim they are trying to solve! Some will get RICH though! THOUSANDS of dollars to do what in the 1980s would cost like $10? Getting something that will have a planned life of 5 years, and USED to be more like 50? GIVE ME A BREAK!

      Steve

      Yep, England had a mini ice age, from 1860's to 1884, (something in that ballpark) and the Thames froze so much they had party's on it!

      About 100 years before that the industrial revolution started.


      We would have had more reason to crap on, back then than now, (colder weather, is less productive overall to plant crops, water is taken into account).

      But the Earth corrected it all by itself, with no help from the industrialists, who had the sc*** the planet and get as much from it as possible, (dominate nature was the correct remark).

      Now we are in a merry-go-round of brainwashed individuals, who still believe in the GW thing, and are still trying to portray gloom and doom to get ahead or make a buck!


      And the amazing thing is people just reaching the voting age, are, or seem to be lapping it up!


      Maybe that is why they are trying to dumb the population down, so they can pull this crap over and over, to chuck a few billion down a hole, and scoop a few million off the top!


      As Sal has said if these, morons were serious, apart from growing a brain and looking at all data, they would invest heavily into zero point energy systems!!!

      If a 12 year old can build one of these things, l figure they could, (least l hope so)!


      And obviously do it at such a large scale that the social paths couldn't put a lid on it!

      Ok, rant over for now!


      Shane
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

        Yep, England had a mini ice age, from 1860's to 1884, (something in that ballpark) and the Thames froze so much they had party's on it!

        About 100 years before that the industrial revolution started.


        We would have had more reason to crap on, back then than now, (colder weather, is less productive overall to plant crops, water is taken into account).

        But the Earth corrected it all by itself, with no help from the industrialists, who had the sc*** the planet and get as much from it as possible, (dominate nature was the correct remark).

        Now we are in a merry-go-round of brainwashed individuals, who still believe in the GW thing, and are still trying to portray gloom and doom to get ahead or make a buck!


        And the amazing thing is people just reaching the voting age, are, or seem to be lapping it up!


        Maybe that is why they are trying to dumb the population down, so they can pull this crap over and over, to chuck a few billion down a hole, and scoop a few million off the top!


        As Sal has said if these, morons were serious, apart from growing a brain and looking at all data, they would invest heavily into zero point energy systems!!!

        If a 12 year old can build one of these things, l figure they could, (least l hope so)!


        And obviously do it at such a large scale that the social paths couldn't put a lid on it!

        Ok, rant over for now!


        Shane
        Of course they are. They are entering colleges, where science departments only get research funding if they endorse the official political stance. Those kids never get a chance to talk to independent scientists.
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      • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
        Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

        <snip>
        It never ceases to amaze me how someone can reject the conclusions of most of the world's scientists, and yet believe that a rock on Mars that looks like something Earthly is "proof" of life on Mars.

        So, I guess we should reject the word of scientists (with alleged vested interests), and accept the word of industrialists (with provable vested interests).

        What next? Should we also reject antibiotics because they are developed with a commercial intent, and go back to leeches?

        The cost of providing a "greener" future, is miniscule compared to the cost of fixing damage caused by the increasing number of "climate events".

        You might also like to ask yourself why the insurance industry (one of the foundation stones of the capitalist system) DO believe in climate change. After all they are the ones paying out for all the damage.

        Or you could just bury your head in the sand and continue to get your "news" from a company that is in court (UK) at the moment for, among other things, hacking into a dead girl's phone.

        News Limited, providing limited news to people who are more interested in celebrity affairs than actual NEWS. An organisation that is trusted by less than 25% of Australians.

        Most Australians would rather trust the scientists than a "news" organisation that has been to court to defend it's right to lie and misinform its viewers. They were given the OK to misinform their viewers, as this represents "'free speech".

        You are entitled to your own opinion, but you're not entitled to your own facts.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      Has anyone told them don't eat yellow snow?
      Don't worry. I think I saw people warning them on Sky News. Last thing they need now is to think they've come across a miraculous bit of mango sorbet amongst the snow.
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      • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        Of course they are. They are entering colleges, where science departments only get research funding if they endorse the official political stance. Those kids never get a chance to talk to independent scientists.
        Yep, so much for the zero point energy system some company in some remote country, was developing, that was supposed to be sold worldwide 6 months ago, (that announcement was posted here).


        Yep, anything that can dramatically improve our lives overall, is always buried, etc!

        Well anything that clobbers oil profits!


        I think that we need to adopt a Moonraker, type setup, get as many companys to build components, then deliver them to an address, and get robots to build them.

        And possibly individuals to mail them.


        No doubt if 1 million Aussies got a zero point pen torch that never goes flat, the news stations would most likely come up with some BS storey that they are mini bombs, or have toxic substances, etc.

        But if blueprints are included and made from transparent plastic, then l suspect that it would be out of the socialpaths hands, and word of mouth would give it a push.


        Probably another reason these, a***** are dumbing society down as much as possible, so smart***** like me don't do things like this.

        Disclamer, - this is all hypothetical!


        One person with enough smarts and money can give these lowlifes a blood nose!

        And possibly set the wheels rolling, so the planet changes for the better!


        I suspect that even a fruitcake greenie, would applaud this announcement!


        Shane
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    A saw a pic with snow on the pyramids. Okay - you probably saw it, too right?

    Anyone else gonna admit that their first thought was about how fun it'd be to tube down the pryamids?
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    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
      Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

      Hi Shane,

      Now, I'm not going to get involved in this endless debate of which I'm not remotely qualified to comment on.

      However, I live in Europe and it's the 16th December today and it was 11 oC when I got up this morning. Now I appreciate as an Aussie that would qualify as an ice age temperature but I can assure you it feels positively warm here today.

      Not only that it was the hottest summer here in seven years with all of July getting above 30 oC.

      Forgive me but where in Europe are they experiencing a mini ice age as I've heard nothing about it?
      Well l am just projecting on a likely outcome, since it overall seems to be getting colder, and world temp,s haven't budged for 15 years. And l have seen reports of extreme cold spells in America, etc.

      Also past hot and cold spells go from hot to cold, although in the middle ages l think that there was another global warming spell that lasted for 1000 years. No BS back then, and farmers or grape growers loved it, they produced record crops.

      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      LMAO. Just asked the question the other day - how cold does it have to get and for how long for people to understand it actually is getting cold out. We could've gone to Antarctica before this last snow and taken some measurements from right over the mantle plume for "warming" evidence, Shane......a little late now. Oh well - maybe in another couple thousand years huh?

      Hey I know - wanna freak out the warming doomsday crowd? Go to this site and monitor sun activities - when there's a decent size flares during decent solar winds we can run outside and take measurements of the temporarily warmed atmosphere and report high findings and watch everyone try to find caves to hide in. LMAO.

      Hmmm, l think that the GW wheels are well and truly falling off. And eventhough according to the video below, Ice ages don't occur for a long time, we do have particularly hold or hot spells within our lifetime, so mini ice age is probably more accurate!


      Yep, apparently we will have a mini ice age within two years and the heat will disappear!

      Great, takes care of the GW, but we will all die of course! :rolleyes:

      Phew, have to stop wasting my time on this merry go round subject.

      And get back to putting Claude's head on a chicken or something! He, he!


      Originally Posted by myob View Post

      You seem to have ignored all my explanations and references. Perhaps you missed the record-breaking heat wave over much of Europe during the summer of 2013,
      Originally Posted by myob View Post

      and the new heat records set in the southeastern Australia summer.

      However, part of your logic appears to be somewhat salvageable:
      "But to me heat melts ice!"
      Hmmm, l took another look, and it still doesn't add up. World temp, haven't gone up or down since 1997. So if temp, have been steadily rising, then this doesn't work with the current model!

      As for the polar ice cap thing, Sal and others in other discussions showed that the ice has been melting quickly, but it also has been replacing itself at higher levels.


      Record hot or cold weeks or days always occur, go back through weather data and you will find it!

      I think that Australia's hottest day was in the late 1800's at almost 50 degrees!


      Although as Sal has said every time we have a hot day or fire the sky is falling crowd come out of the caves, and have a rant!


      In this world with so many nutters around it isn't' easy to find data that can be relied upon.


      Have a nice day!


      Shane
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Whateveropedia --
    Um......nobody said climate is not changing. I don't think anyone is that obtuse. The disagreement is whether it is WARMING.

    I believe it is cooling --- and if you want to take a more serious look at it.......there are a hella lot of world-class climatologists who say so. Kayoto only had 2,900 sign on - and as far as I'm concerned, hair dressers and restaurant owners are NOT climatologists. The "most climatologist" debate is a false one. You hear about those that agree with warming because our govs are trying to tax us. If they were going to tax us on cold, you'd only hear about the ones who say it's getting colder. Media is NOT the place to get your science info.

    I keep telling people to look at ICECAP and it seems that warming enthusiasts just refuse to go there........yet they have more independent, world class climatologists speaking than anywhere else. Their petition contains 30,000 scientific minds - not hair dressers or restaurant owners, etc. They are from several disciplines of science that help sort through data - such as computer scientists who understand and know where online data has been fudged, climatologists, geologists, etc. Also consider that Solar Scientists mostly disagree with the warming scientists. They have a pretty good handle on what's going on with the sun that changes our climate.

    As far as ocean temps. Where the measurements are taken is of major importance. I found all sort of research that says oceans are warming - yet if you checked their measurements, they are all taken in the vicinity of underwater volcanic activity. The northern seas have a few going off right now. Um.........molten lava has a way of heating up stuff around them. Same reason those SW African glaciers can't be honestly used as an example for glacial melt....they're sitting on activated volcanic mantle plumes.

    There's more to determining climate than just taking measurements here and there. It takes interdisciplinary data. It's kinda like the blind guy who feels part of an elephant then tries to describe it. Measuring sea temps without considering underwater volcanic action and currents is so misleading that it's ludicrous - but you can get away with it if you talk to people that know nothing about geology.

    Don't get your science (any of them) from the media. Get it from scientists who aren't paid via governments. Period - and I don't care what field of science we're talking about.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Ten
    That's pretty amazing Larry. Nothing is impossible!
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    • Profile picture of the author LarryC
      Originally Posted by Michael Ten View Post

      That's pretty amazing Larry. Nothing is impossible!
      Yes, that was my initial reaction though I guess I should have predicted that it would turn into another climate change debate!
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  • Profile picture of the author ThomM
    Originally Posted by LarryC View Post

    No matter what you think about manmade global warming, it's hard to deny that the climate is changing. It's snowing for the first time in over a century in the Middle East. I especially like the photo of the camel in the snow.

    Snow Blankets Middle East and Hits Egypt For First Time in Century [PHOTOS]
    It's now 13F here and between yesterday and today I shoveled roughly 400 cu. ft. of snow with another storm coming in tomorrow.
    So as far as the Middle East getting snow? Good
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    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Whateveropedia --
      Um......nobody said climate is not changing. I don't think anyone is that obtuse. The disagreement is whether it is WARMING.

      I believe it is cooling --- and if you want to take a more serious look at it.......there are a hella lot of world-class climatologists who say so. Kayoto only had 2,900 sign on - and as far as I'm concerned, hair dressers and restaurant owners are NOT climatologists. The "most climatologist" debate is a false one. You hear about those that agree with warming because our govs are trying to tax us. If they were going to tax us on cold, you'd only hear about the ones who say it's getting colder. Media is NOT the place to get your science info.

      I keep telling people to look at ICECAP and it seems that warming enthusiasts just refuse to go there........yet they have more independent, world class climatologists speaking than anywhere else. Their petition contains 30,000 scientific minds - not hair dressers or restaurant owners, etc. They are from several disciplines of science that help sort through data - such as computer scientists who understand and know where online data has been fudged, climatologists, geologists, etc. Also consider that Solar Scientists mostly disagree with the warming scientists. They have a pretty good handle on what's going on with the sun that changes our climate.

      As far as ocean temps. Where the measurements are taken is of major importance. I found all sort of research that says oceans are warming - yet if you checked their measurements, they are all taken in the vicinity of underwater volcanic activity. The northern seas have a few going off right now. Um.........molten lava has a way of heating up stuff around them. Same reason those SW African glaciers can't be honestly used as an example for glacial melt....they're sitting on activated volcanic mantle plumes.

      There's more to determining climate than just taking measurements here and there. It takes interdisciplinary data. It's kinda like the blind guy who feels part of an elephant then tries to describe it. Measuring sea temps without considering underwater volcanic action and currents is so misleading that it's ludicrous - but you can get away with it if you talk to people that know nothing about geology.

      Don't get your science (any of them) from the media. Get it from scientists who aren't paid via governments. Period - and I don't care what field of science we're talking about.

      Thanks Sal, you gave it your best shot!


      But it seems that even with good supportive evidence, some don't want to believe that the Earth isn't warming!


      Or that it is almost a fact that intelligent life existed or does exist on Mars. But it won't go into that here, getting off thread too much.


      I am like you Sal, l want to know the truth, no matter how scary or unsettling it may be!


      But some clearly don't, and that is fine, we just need to wait for supportive evidence to catch up with us!


      Shane
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

        Thanks Sal, you gave it your best shot!


        But it seems that even with good supportive evidence, some don't want to believe that the Earth isn't warming!


        Or that it is almost a fact that intelligent life existed or does exist on Mars. But it won't go into that here, getting off thread too much.


        I am like you Sal, l want to know the truth, no matter how scary or unsettling it may be!


        But some clearly don't, and that is fine, we just need to wait for supportive evidence to catch up with us!


        Shane
        Not a problem - they're not scientists, let em think what they want to as long as they don't do something stupid like try to reduce the C02 - people need it to breath, too - or did someone forget to mention that one? Actually, as it gets colder, that should reduce on it's own. C02 always follows a warming trend.

        So.......instead of getting jacked - I'll just get some cheap swamp property in the north (gonna have to wait for summer since it's all frozen over now) and sell it to em at an incredible mark up so they can migrate north to be safe from the heat. Right. See how many years it takes for em to figure out they're freakin' freezin'.

        Do that a few times and I'll have the bucks to move south.
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        • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          Shane -- I'm not worried about it. If they still actually think MOST climatologists believe it's warming -- then try to sell em some swampland up north. LMAO....nobody else will be using it in another decade.

          Which reminds me of something that is a little nerve wracking. They used to think that it takes about 1000 years for an ice age to develop. About 2 or 3 years ago, they discovered that it can happen in 10. Doesn't mean it will - but it's still scary shyte if you've followed record lows, dwindling highs, and flood patterns over the last couple years. 7 billion people -- can you imagine an ice age hitting that fast. Beam me up Scotty - I'm ready to go make pets of those damned martian mice you're always talkin' about. This sun cycle was supposed to be a killer and it's turning out to be one of the weakest ever. Give me a ticket to EO. Jupiter's probably cranking out more heat to that moon than the sun spitting at us. Ticked - hate cold weather. Bah humbug.
          Interesting, so 15 years since world temp, stabilized, could be one??? Richard may have to eat his words, he, he!


          Another interesting thing about their arguments is if the oceans are getting warmer, then polar icebergs should be melting faster than ever before, and we should be seeing a noticeable difference in ocean levels?

          But if polar caps are gaining more than losing, then the likely mini ice age, could be putting the brakes on melting ice, or counteracting it.


          Martian mice, there seems to be a wide selection of rodents there.

          I will let you know if l bag one! He, he! :rolleyes:


          As for evidence, l believe that what l have found is far better than what was found in previous missions.

          I mean if water and blue sky's have overwhelming supportive evidence, then who knows about the rest. Especially if we don't hear a peep from the media!


          Here is some interesting info, true what we are going through now may not be a mini ice age in the true sence of the word, but it is a cool word, (sorry about that) so l will stay with it!

          Little Ice Age - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



          Shane
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          • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
            Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

            Interesting, so 15 years since world temp, stabilized, could be one??? Richard may have to eat his words, he, he!
            Er...What words?

            I'm not even remotely involved in your debate?!

            You just said Europe was in an mini ice age at present, I'm just pointing out we're not, unless you call the warmest summer in seven years and very temperate weather ever since, a mini ice age.

            I have no time or reason to get involved in these debates, I was merely pointing out Europe is not currently in an ice age. Next year perhaps, 10 years perhaps, I haven't a clue but I do have a clue about this very present second, because I'm alive and well and I can still feel the temperature and it's definitely not a mini ice age.

            Please don't drag me into this Shane, a simple read of the thread shows who is arguing with you I was merely responding to this one, tiny snippet of what you wrote.

            ...and a mini ice age in Europe at present
            At present is right now and right now, Europe is not in an ice age.

            I'm not arguing about tomorrow, next year, 3 poxy years, just the present because you said I'm presently in a mini ice age, which is wrong.

            I made it very clear and I'll do it again. I'm not a climatologist and I don't get involved in these arguments. I do however get involved when I'm told I live in somewhere presently having a mini ice age when it's not.

            So I won't eat a single word I'm afraid, I haven't made any to eat and apart from that one statement about where I live being in the said ice age, I haven't put an argument forward.

            So I'm not sure where you plucked my name from. Anyone can see that Myob and Whateverpedia are providing their side against what appears to be you and Sal.

            I wasn't and sure as hell won't, get involved.
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            • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
              Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

              Er...What words?

              I'm not even remotely involved in your debate?!

              You just said Europe was in an mini ice age at present, I'm just pointing out we're not, unless you call the warmest summer in seven years and very temperate weather ever since, a mini ice age.

              I have no time or reason to get involved in these debates, I was merely pointing out Europe is not currently in an ice age. Next year perhaps, 10 years perhaps, I haven't a clue but I do have a clue about this very present second, because I'm alive and well and I can still feel the temperature and it's definitely not a mini ice age.

              Please don't drag me into this Shane, a simple read of the thread shows who is arguing with you I was merely responding to this one, tiny snippet of what you wrote.



              At present is right now and right now, Europe is not in an ice age.

              I'm not arguing about tomorrow, next year, 3 poxy years, just the present because you said I'm presently in a mini ice age, which is wrong.

              I made it very clear and I'll do it again. I'm not a climatologist and I don't get involved in these arguments. I do however get involved when I'm told I live in somewhere presently having a mini ice age when it's not.

              So I won't eat a single word I'm afraid, I haven't made any to eat and apart from that one statement about where I live being in the said ice age, I haven't put an argument forward.

              So I'm not sure where you plucked my name from. Anyone can see that Myob and Whateverpedia are providing their side against what appears to be you and Sal.

              I wasn't and sure as hell won't, get involved.

              Ok, sorry, Middle east and America are going through one!


              Shane

              I guess l am eating humble pie, but maybe not for long? :rolleyes:
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              • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
                Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

                I guess l am eating humble pie, but maybe not for long? :rolleyes:
                Shane,

                As I said, my opinion on what is going to happen or not isn't relevant. I simply don't have enough knowledge or the time to read up on it. I have learned a great deal here and other threads but not enough for me to actually take place in a discussion on one.

                My only point was that I am not experiencing any mini ice age and I'm not here to argue whether you or anyone else is right or wrong.

                And I'm certainly not going to fall out with you over it. Good grief, it's nearly Christmas.
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                • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                  There are weather experts now who are saying we may be entering a "global cooling" phase.

                  May be the problem is we have gotten too comfortable with "global warming" when the truth may be "atmospheric instability".

                  For several years, some scientists have claimed the argument should be about "climate CHANGE" not only about "warming".

                  There are some things we can't "know" for sure - and there will always be things like that. We can only do the best we can based on our current knowledge of a situation. As our data changes, we have to adjust our views to adapt...and that's where some people get stuck.
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            • Profile picture of the author HeySal
              Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

              Er...What words?

              I'm not even remotely involved in your debate?!

              You just said Europe was in an mini ice age at present, I'm just pointing out we're not, unless you call the warmest summer in seven years and very temperate weather ever since, a mini ice age.

              I have no time or reason to get involved in these debates, I was merely pointing out Europe is not currently in an ice age. Next year perhaps, 10 years perhaps, I haven't a clue but I do have a clue about this very present second, because I'm alive and well and I can still feel the temperature and it's definitely not a mini ice age.

              Please don't drag me into this Shane, a simple read of the thread shows who is arguing with you I was merely responding to this one, tiny snippet of what you wrote.



              At present is right now and right now, Europe is not in an ice age.

              I'm not arguing about tomorrow, next year, 3 poxy years, just the present because you said I'm presently in a mini ice age, which is wrong.

              I made it very clear and I'll do it again. I'm not a climatologist and I don't get involved in these arguments. I do however get involved when I'm told I live in somewhere presently having a mini ice age when it's not.

              So I won't eat a single word I'm afraid, I haven't made any to eat and apart from that one statement about where I live being in the said ice age, I haven't put an argument forward.

              So I'm not sure where you plucked my name from. Anyone can see that Myob and Whateverpedia are providing their side against what appears to be you and Sal.

              I wasn't and sure as hell won't, get involved.
              Actually - if you want to get technical - outside of hella forests having been leveled in the meantime - the climate is about what it was when I was a kid in school. We had some whopping low temps and a lot of snow in winter -- blazing hot summers. So this to me isn't "anomalous" or "scary" at all. It's nostalgia. It's not the climate that upsets me one whit..........it's the way forests have been leveled that makes me want to move to a new planet asap.

              Kay - exactly why they changed the catch phrase from "warming" to "change". In the last few years solar study has made leaps and bounds in the knowledge of how our sun effects our climate. When politicians started screaming about warming scientists were looking ahead at solar cycle 24 being the strongest on record. If that had happened, they could have bled us of more money than we've ever heard of over it. Well cycle 24 turned into one of the weakest ever. OOPS. If they can't get some of the real science out to the public and cycle 25 revs up again........you'll see some major taxes coming down the pike.

              Graphs like the one that NOAA has up are so misleading that it's crazy. One of the reasons the Icecap Scientists include computer scientists. Just a lot of colors and numbers. One of their "anomalies" is actually a floating continent of plastic. I was clicking over years and trying to match the drift of that plastic over the years and was able to get a condensed little history of how that thing is growing. It just really disgusts me to no end. There's bacteria that would eat that stuff and I think it's high time that we put a bacteria bomb in the middle of it. What the hell have we done?
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              • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                Actually - if you want to get technical - outside of hella forests having been leveled in the meantime - the climate is about what it was when I was a kid in school. We had some whopping low temps and a lot of snow in winter -- blazing hot summers. So this to me isn't "anomalous" or "scary" at all. It's nostalgia. It's not the climate that upsets me one whit..........it's the way forests have been leveled that makes me want to move to a new planet asap.
                I'm with you Sal. I have to keep explaining to my kids that this is closer to what it was like when I was a kid. It wasn't unusual at all to have three feet of snow by Thanksgiving and by January, 6 feet of the stuff.

                We used to jump out of the loft of a family friend's barn without reaching the ground or getting hurt and then tunnel our way to daylight again, lol!

                I also tell them that it was so cold that when I came back in from snowmobiling, many times my eyelashes were frozen together and I had to wait a few minutes for the ice to melt before I could open my eyes.

                This isn't even anywhere near as cold, or as snowy as it was when I was a kid.

                Terra
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Shane -- I'm not worried about it. If they still actually think MOST climatologists believe it's warming -- then try to sell em some swampland up north. LMAO....nobody else will be using it in another decade.

    Which reminds me of something that is a little nerve wracking. They used to think that it takes about 1000 years for an ice age to develop. About 2 or 3 years ago, they discovered that it can happen in 10. Doesn't mean it will - but it's still scary shyte if you've followed record lows, dwindling highs, and flood patterns over the last couple years. 7 billion people -- can you imagine an ice age hitting that fast. Beam me up Scotty - I'm ready to go make pets of those damned martian mice you're always talkin' about. This sun cycle was supposed to be a killer and it's turning out to be one of the weakest ever. Give me a ticket to EO. Jupiter's probably cranking out more heat to that moon than the sun spitting at us. Ticked - hate cold weather. Bah humbug.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Shane - that's about what I'm getting at. We can argue until we're blue in the face, but the argument's going to be over within the next 3 years. I've got my "informed you thusly" reserved already.

    As far as sea temp - there's still volcanic action on the bottom going on (last I heard anyway) so the water probably is warm. They're on the bottom so the heat's going to be deep enough to just flow out instead of hitting the surface. Not gonna touch that ice on top. Antarctica is an archipelago and the snow is back to covering that plume without a problem and that plume is really shallow. Of course - there's no molten lava spitting out of that plume either so - 6 of one, half dozen of the other.
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    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Shane - that's about what I'm getting at. We can argue until we're blue in the face, but the argument's going to be over within the next 3 years. I've got my "informed you thusly" reserved already.

      As far as sea temp - there's still volcanic action on the bottom going on (last I heard anyway) so the water probably is warm. They're on the bottom so the heat's going to be deep enough to just flow out instead of hitting the surface. Not gonna touch that ice on top. Antarctica is an archipelago and the snow is back to covering that plume without a problem and that plume is really shallow. Of course - there's no molten lava spitting out of that plume either so - 6 of one, half dozen of the other.
      And "l told you so"! :rolleyes:


      We have got to give ourselves a pat on the back occasionally! :p


      Especially when we are super intelligent, (well almost as intelligent as Claude) he, he!


      Shane
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Terra - My sister was a February baby - born in 30 below zero. Back in the early 80's I walked Kane in weeks of below (down to 20 below) weather during Jan/Feb. I never experienced a warm Halloween and it had always snowed at least once by my birthday in mid Nov. We averaged 5 snow days a year from school (my dad decided when we got those, so figure that 3 of em were real and 2 were "can't handle the kids begging anymore so let em play hookie for a day".

    This year out here in Central OR, which has proven to be about the same temp - just a lot dryer than MI, we have had 4 days of below zero with negative 26 degrees being coldest. There were low records set in scattered areas all over the country -- the low records went back before the 70's this time. The last couple of years, record lows only went back to the early 70's generally.

    Seems people missed my question in the middle of the rabble-rousing in here but I was serious. The first thing I thought of when I saw snow on the Pyramids was what a gas it would be to tube down one of em, LMAO.

    Claude - trying to think of a methane/flatulence joke and didn't quite make it?

    I didn't even see Lanfear3's comment about methane. So they are talking about the methane and not the volcanoes? Where are they telling people it's coming from - and how much sense is it making? Of course, there's methane down there - there's pyroclastic volcanic action. The fact it's going on underwater is kinda fortunate for us right now because it will disperse a lot of it. Methane is definitely not good for thriving life. Jupitor's moon Io is loaded with volcanic action and is the reason they aren't exploring that for another planet -- Europa looks promising, though. It's small, however, so it wouldn't take humans long to trash that one up pretty good, too.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post


      Claude - trying to think of a methane/flatulence joke and didn't quite make it?
      Nope. I was talking about one person not having any idea what inflamable means. I thought it was a pretty good analogy to this discussion.
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Nope. I was talking about one person not having any idea what inflamable means. I thought it was a pretty good analogy to this discussion.
        Inflamable means the same thing as flamable, even though it would seem the "in" would be equivalent to "un" and make it mean not-flamable. So.........not getting your analogy to this discussion unless you're saying warming and cooling are the same thing - in which in a very esoteric fashion - extremely esoteric, I can see what wheels are cranking.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          Inflamable means the same thing as flamable, even though it would seem the "in" would be equivalent to "un" and make it mean not-flamable. So.........not getting your analogy to this discussion unless you're saying warming and cooling are the same thing - in which in a very esoteric fashion - extremely esoteric, I can see what wheels are cranking.
          You're fluking with me, right?
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          • Profile picture of the author HeySal
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            You're fluking with me, right?

            Um....................................

            No, Clyde. No I'm not.

            This time anyhow.
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            • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
              It's always fascinated me that inflammable and flammable meant the same thing.

              English can be such an odd language at times.
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              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

                It's always fascinated me that inflammable and flammable meant the same thing.

                English can be such an odd language at times.

                You invented it. You should have fixed it before you gave it to us.



                Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                Inflamable means the same thing as flamable, even though it would seem the "in" would be equivalent to "un" and make it mean not-flamable. So.........not getting your analogy to this discussion unless you're saying warming and cooling are the same thing - in which in a very esoteric fashion - extremely esoteric, I can see what wheels are cranking.
                Sal; My post had nothing to do with global warming. it was that one person completely misunderstood what another person said, and then posted an argument.

                I'm going to have to admit...that I had to look up "inflammable". I thought it meant combustible, but wanted to make sure. I see the mistake, and sympathize....but these misunderstandings are common here. That was my point.
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Terra - My sister was a February baby - born in 30 below zero. Back in the early 80's I walked Kane in weeks of below (down to 20 below) weather during Jan/Feb. I never experienced a warm Halloween and it had always snowed at least once by my birthday in mid Nov. We averaged 5 snow days a year from school (my dad decided when we got those, so figure that 3 of em were real and 2 were "can't handle the kids begging anymore so let em play hookie for a day".
      Ahh yes, the days when you stepped outside, your buggers froze inside your nose with you first breath, lol! I remember those too.


      Terra
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  • Profile picture of the author LarryC
    "Inflammable" is really a confusing word. From Chemistry.About:

    Actually, the in- in inflammable was derived from the Latin preposition meaning en- (like enflamed), not the Latin prefix meaning -un.

    Consider the meaning of words like:

    inseparable
    incalculable
    insane

    ...and you can understand why someone might get confused. The rules of English are not very consistent, so you really just have to learn spellings and meanings case-by-case.
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  • Profile picture of the author trader909
    Banned
    oh right..so anyone that believes the science of it all is an idiot? Nice debates you must have.

    Now we are in a merry-go-round of brainwashed individuals, who still believe in the GW thing, and are still trying to portray gloom and doom to get ahead or make a buck!


    And the amazing thing is people just reaching the voting age, are, or seem to be lapping it up!
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    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
      Originally Posted by trader909 View Post

      missed that one.

      15C here last week in December....it's f**** unreal.

      but just keep denying it.... we are all going to die before the major prob's hit.
      Originally Posted by trader909 View Post

      oh right..so anyone that believes the science of it all is an idiot? Nice debates you must have.
      No l am just saying that everyone should look at ALL the data before stating that we will be dead in blah, blah, years!


      Its the ones that look at all available data and conveniently dismiss some of it, that is a concern!


      And the ones that put up another wind turbine, that doesn't turn, disrupts sensitive individuals sleep patterns and occasionally catches fire, (which makes the carbon issue, worse) doesn't seem to be a good solution!

      Or puts up electricity prices????? :confused:

      Or solar panels, that don't work half the time, and cost too much to install!


      Yep, if we don't believe in MMGW then we will all be dead in 90 years time!

      That is a great way to solve this, if we all use that one, we can ignore all data, get emotional and really F*** up our country's to reduce CO2.

      After all if a little old lady gets thrown out on the street because her electricity bill is sky high, then we can remind ourselves it is for her own good, or for the good of our country or the world!

      B****S****!


      We have brains and creatively, so we should be able to solve this, without resorting to extreme greenie crap solutions like this.

      I have lived through and am living through this BS in Australia, it will get better, but some still have this callus attitude to save the planet for a iffy theory!


      The whole world would have to go to war with China, and America to really fix this, and that would create a global winter!


      There are real solutions out there to really fix this and revolutionize the planet but our leaders won't touch it!

      Which means they know the threat isn't real or they have their heads in the sand and don't care?

      I believe it is a bit of both!


      Shane
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by trader909 View Post

      oh right..so anyone that believes the science of it all is an idiot? Nice debates you must have.
      Not at all. The debate derives from two distinctly different scientific views of what is going on. The warmers like to think that the politically backed scientists make the majority and their views are better. Their views are actually the ones the politicians want to be publicized. There are quite a small number of scientists that actually support the warming "theory" and they are supported by political funds. There are a large number that say it's cooling, and their views are contrary to what politicians want people to hear. So yeah, there's debates. No different than the debates over whether politically supported medicine is better than natural alternative health.

      The beauty of the climate debate is that it's only gonna take between 3 and 7 more years for the real events to be so obvious that there will be nothing that politicians can suppress either direction of the debate to make people think other is going on than is. LOL. In some sciences, it can take one heck of a long time for suppressed truths to become obvious to the masses.
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