Rep. Jack Kingston Proposes That Poor Students Sweep Floors In Exchange For Lunch

12 years ago

It has at least been PROPOSED, that EVERYONE should get a free lunch, so that NOBODY feels the shame of this. SHAME is a GOOD thing! PUNISHMENT is a good thing. IMAGINE if there were NO shame or punishment. If a person wanted to buy a hotdog, they could simply mug people!

GEE, when I see all the HANDOUTS the poor get, YIKES! And many are for things that MY generation didn't even HAVE when we were in school. and I am one of the YOUNGEST in my generation. IMAGINE! Some in my generation were thinking about retirement when some of this stuff became popular! The oldest in my generation, according to wikipedia, are now 68! The youngest are maybe 48. SO, take the internet, for example... The oldest were about 48. And that was BEFORE google, paypal, and amazon!

MY generation didn't have them and didn't even get a cut on encyclopedias, payphones, or trips to the library! And NOW, they claim WE are somehow privileged and THEY MUST be SUBSIDIZED!?!?!?!?

Steve

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yukon

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

It has at least been PROPOSED, that EVERYONE should get a free lunch, so that NOBODY feels the shame of this. SHAME is a GOOD thing! PUNISHMENT is a good thing. IMAGINE if there were NO shame or punishment. If a person wanted to buy a hotdog, they could simply mug people!

GEE, when I see all the HANDOUTS the poor get, YIKES! And many are for things that MY generation didn't even HAVE when we were in school. and I am one of the YOUNGEST in my generation. IMAGINE! Some in my generation were thinking about retirement when some of this stuff became popular! The oldest in my generation, according to wikipedia, are now 68! The youngest are maybe 48. SO, take the internet, for example... The oldest were about 48. And that was BEFORE google, paypal, and amazon!

MY generation didn't have them and didn't even get a cut on encyclopedias, payphones, or trips to the library! And NOW, they claim WE are somehow privileged and THEY MUST be SUBSIDIZED!?!?!?!?

Steve

So you wouldn't mind your only meal being one school lunch every 24 hours. Forget the weekend, you won't be eating. It's like that for a lot of school kids.

It's easy to talk when your not wearing the other persons shoes.

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

So you wouldn't mind your only meal being one school lunch every 24 hours. Forget the weekend, you won't be eating. It's like that for a lot of school kids.

It's easy to talk when your not wearing the other persons shoes.

I have LOG said that it is ok to pay for those in REAL need! ALSO, families SHOULD NOT HAVE KIDS if they have no viable plans to afford them!

Steve

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yukon Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

also, families should not have kids if they have no viable plans to afford them!

Steve

If that was the case there would be like 10,000 people on earth.

I've revoked your caps-lock privileges.
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- HeySal 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by yukon
  
  If that was the case there would be like 10,000 people on earth.
  
  I've revoked your caps-lock privileges.
  
  You say that like it would be a bad thing.
  
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  yukon Banned 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by HeySal
  
  You say that like it would be a bad thing.
  
  They better all be farmers, otherwise they won't be eating.
  
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- TimPhelan 12 years ago
  
  My vote for post of the week!
  
  Originally Posted by yukon
  
  If that was the case there would be like 10,000 people on earth.
  
  I've revoked your caps-lock privileges.
  
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- seasoned 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by yukon
  
  If that was the case there would be like 10,000 people on earth.
  
  I've revoked your caps-lock privileges.
  
  THANKS! I HATE cap lock! ESPECIALLY on the IBM PC since it toggles. Cap lock USED to force CAPS.
  
  No, there would be FAR more than 10,000 people on earth. It would not be NEAR 6 billion, but it would certainly be much more than 10,000.
  
  There would also be fewer wars, less corruption, and less talk about politics!
  
  Steve
  
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Dan Riffle

12 years ago

What about teaching the non-poor kids? They get a free lunch, too, just from their parents.

Additionally, I don't like the idea of making children work to pay their parents' debts. However, making the children pay a nominal amount is a decent idea.

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

What about teaching the non-poor kids? They get a free lunch too, just from their parents.

Additionally, I don't like the idea of making children work to pay their parents' debts. However, making the children pay a nominal amount is a decent idea.

How do you know? Somehow, I NEVER thought things were free! I can't remember a time when I did. I remember buying a book when I was about 3, and I had to ask for money for THAT! About the same time, I came up with a project I researched for like 13 years. I constantly checked the prices of things I would need. I got to see inflation affect those prices. BTW I calculated prices on an old MECHANICAL adding machine I was lucky to have, at least when I started trying to figure out all the costs. TODAY, what I wanted to build only exists in my mind. Some parts are just too involved, and I think working out the kinks would be too expensive.

Steve

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Dan Riffle

12 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

How do you know? Somehow, I NEVER thought things were free! I can't remember a time when I did. I remember buying a book when I was about 3, and I had to ask for money for THAT! About the same time, I came up with a project I researched for like 13 years. I constantly checked the prices of things I would need. I got to see inflation affect those prices. BTW I calculated prices on an old MECHANICAL adding machine I was lucky to have, at least when I started trying to figure out all the costs. TODAY, what I wanted to build only exists in my mind. Some parts are just too involved, and I think working out the kinks would be too expensive.

Steve

How do I know what, Steve? In fact, how does anything I said relate to your response to what I said?

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Claude Whitacre 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

How do I know what, Steve? In fact, how does anything I said relate to your response to what I said?

For the love of God, Man...Don't ask him that question!
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- Dan Riffle 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre
  
  For the love of God, Man...Don't ask him that question!
  
  Sh!t. You're right. I may have just inadvertently activated Skynet.
  
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David Maschke

12 years ago

A government forcing children to work for food.

The only thing I find sicker is adults who think it's a good idea.

Your post clearly states it was proposed by a rep, but you want to keep politics out of it. Really good logic.

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by David Maschke

A government forcing children to work for food.

The only thing I find sicker is adults who think it's a good idea.

Your post clearly states it was proposed by a rep, but you want to keep politics out of it. Really good logic.

Well, the idea of declaring EVERY neat thing a NECESSITY, and charging the public money, they can't afford, to subsidize it is pretty sick! What about OUR retirements? What about the recession, etc? I am supposed to have a mediocre retirement so some kid can get a snickers bar, or the city dumps get their daily ration of "pizza"? NO THANKS!

The PUBLIC sector won't stand for it! Why should the PRIVATE sector stand for it?

Steve

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David Maschke

12 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Well, the idea of declaring EVERY neat thing a NECESSITY, and charging the public money, they can't afford, to subsidize it is pretty sick! What about OUR retirements? What about the recession, etc? I am supposed to have a mediocre retirement so some kid can get a snickers bar, or the city dumps get their daily ration of "pizza"? NO THANKS!

The PUBLIC sector won't stand for it! Why should the PRIVATE sector stand for it?

Steve

I can use CAPS too.

'CAUSE THEY ARE KIDS

How about getting the adults to do their jobs? You ever hear of child labor laws?

Do you want to tax those kids too so they can share in the burden of your retirement?

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mojojuju 12 years ago

Originally Posted by David Maschke

I can use CAPS too.

'CAUSE THEY ARE KIDS

seasoned can't write without using CAPS. I can tell if a post is from seasoned without even looking at the username 90% of the time. He's the best.
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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by David Maschke

I can use CAPS too.

'CAUSE THEY ARE KIDS

How about getting the adults to do their jobs? You ever hear of child labor laws?

Do you want to tax those kids too so they can share in the burden of your retirement?

Then LET THE PUBLIC sector pay ALSO! FUNNY! They only mention kids to get money from the PRIVATE sector!

And if they take $1000 from my retirement, it might actually cost me ten times that. For the retirement, I am talking about money ****I**** sacrificed to save!

Steve

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Sarevok 12 years ago

How about making state reps (and all politicians) work for their food?
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yukon

Banned 12 years ago

Rep. Jack Kingston Proposes That Poor Students Sweep Floors In Exchange For Lunch

What a douche.

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HeySal

12 years ago

Ya know - high school kids always have worked. A lot of kids work in high school - paper routes, babysitting, etc. It's ILLEGAL to hire someone under 16 years of age. Yet it's okay to turn them into slaves or indentured servants at young ages? Some little kids learn business with lemonade stand type enterprises (well - wherever they won't get fined and shut down for it now). It is NOT okay to work a child for their food. You don't make a slave out of a kid - -this is class warfare and nothing but. They could just as easily give rewards for achievement instead, couldn't they? I don't see them offering that. A little kid's job at school is to learn - it's not to scrub floors to be fed. Really? That's called slavery. Pure and simple. Even people old enough to be worked legally get a minimum wage exchange for their labor.

Is that what you want the children of our poor to live like. Really? That's really a brown shirt attitude.

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Kay King

12 years ago

I'm not outraged as some are but there is a core problem I have with the idea of this.

When the free school lunch program was fairly new - the kids kidding free lunches waited in a separate line at most schools. In schools I know of now, that is no longer the case.

Thing is - the children are not getting a free lunch because they are slackers. They are getting a free lunch because their parents don't have the resources to pay for them.

This would have the same effect as kids waiting in separate lines - it would set them apart as "poor kids" and it's wrong to put children in boxes or make them feel "less than".

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Marvin Johnston

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

I'm not outraged as some are but there is a core problem I have with the idea of this.

When the free school lunch program was fairly new - the kids kidding free lunches waited in a separate line at most schools. In schools I know of now, that is no longer the case.

Thing is - the children are not getting a free lunch because they are slackers. They are getting a free lunch because their parents don't have the resources to pay for them.

This would have the same effect as kids waiting in separate lines - it would set them apart as "poor kids" and it's wrong to put children in boxes or make them feel "less than".

What is more of a shame is actively encouraging the entitlement mentality that is so common today.

What is MUCH more shameful is the unwillingness to address why the action proposed in the OP is a good idea.

So why is it wrong to put children in boxes, but right to encourage and develop their entitlement mentality?

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HeySal

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Marvin Johnston

What is more of a shame is actively encouraging the entitlement mentality that is so common today.

What is MUCH more shameful is the unwillingness to address why the action proposed in the OP is a good idea.

So why is it wrong to put children in boxes, but right to encourage and develop their entitlement mentality?

So inflicting slavery on poor children is your idea of an answer to the entitlement attitude? What is the answer to the entitlement attitude of people that feel they have the right to put a child into slavery because they don't have as much money as the enslaver. Do you "get" it we're talking about young children? Worked for food, not for wages........but for food. Indentured servitude.

I repeat - you have to be a true brown shirt to even start to think like this. Congratulations on your indoctrination. Mussolini would have loved you.

I am just enraged that US citizens of any class or race would ever consider this even starting to be okay. Freaking like living in a Charles Dickens movie or a Stalin documentary.

If I have offended anyone with this post. Tough crap. I'm willing to risk it. I'm severely offended by anyone who thinks slaving out kids because mommy and daddy are broke is in any way a "good thing" -- let lone a good "learning" experience for a kid. The only lesson they'll learn is which side of a civil war they'll be on if it hits.

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Paul Myers

12 years ago

Thought: For public schools, this is disturbing. For private schools, there might be a way to flip the thing.

Teach them that paying your own way is preferable to having your parents do it for you. Treat the kids (of any income bracket) who work for their tuition with visible respect for their efforts. And make it a choice that's open to all of the students.

That could create a whole other dynamic.

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LarryC

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Thought: For public schools, this is disturbing. For private schools, there might be a way to flip the thing.

Teach them that paying your own way is preferable to having your parents do it for you. Treat the kids (of any income bracket) who work for their tuition with visible respect for their efforts. And make it a choice that's open to all of the students.

That could create a whole other dynamic.

Wouldn't that encourage a caste system in schools (public or private), with kids from wealthier families getting used to poorer kids working while they don't have to do anything?

College students have a concept of working for their education, but young kids are basically victims of the families into which they were born. You might be able to train teachers and school officials to treat kids who work with respect, but what about other kids? It just seems like something that would drill in the idea of inequality at a young age.

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Kay King

12 years ago

Jumping to the "slavery" argument basically shuts down intelligent discussion on any issue.

The estimate of waste in the Free lunch program was 1.5 Billion in 2011 - payment made for families that didn't qualify but had been approved for the free lunches because no one checks the info given on the application.

Families on food stamps or other cash benefits automatically qualify for the school lunch program - that's half the families in the country these days.

The reimbursement for one free lunch is almost $3 - it doesn't cost $3 to feed one child lunch when it's a group you are feeding. Most of the money is going to other programs that have been added to this lunch program and to administrative fees. Since the 70's there have been addition such as summer food program, adult food programs, snack programs, etc that drive costs up and aren't widely available.

Question that needs to be asked is: could you privatize school lunches and provide FREE lunches for all students for $1.50 per student? I think you could do that - and remove all the waste from the program. Put every dime spent into feeding children. How much more food could you provide students if you cut out the administrative costs all the way up the line?

It takes views and opinion from both sides issues to find a way to control costs and make programs work efficiently. If all you do is scream when a change is suggested - nothing gets done.

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mojojuju

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Question that needs to be asked is: could you privatize school lunches and provide FREE lunches for all students for $1.50 per student? I think you could do that - and remove all the waste from the program. Put every dime spent into feeding children. How much more food could you provide students if you cut out the administrative costs all the way up the line?

I've been told by the TV that I can feed a child in a third world country for just 10 cents a day. I wonder if that's possible here.

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Claude Whitacre

12 years ago

Originally Posted by mojojuju

I've been told by the TV that I can feed a child in a third world country for just 10 cents a day. I wonder if that's possible here.

I think that's a smart question. I don't know the answer, but I would guess that "Feed" in another country means something different than "Feed" in the US.

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mojojuju

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I think that's a smart question. I don't know the answer, but I would guess that "Feed" in another country means something different than "Feed" in the US.

Yeah, they're probably not talking about sloppy joes.

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seasoned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by mojojuju

I've been told by the TV that I can feed a child in a third world country for just 10 cents a day. I wonder if that's possible here.

Just the political garbage would cost more than that in the US.

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TimPhelan

12 years ago

I find it interesting that with all the very serious problems we face in this country and in the world that the main issues some seem to be concerned with are: ending unemployement insurance extensions, cutting the food stamp program, cutting social security, taxing the poor, making kids work for food... All this comes during a time when the gap between the rich and the poor is at it's greatest in generations and when we are still trying to recover from one of the worst economic downturns in our history. Why is this?

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ThomM

12 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

I find it interesting that with all the very serious problems we face in this country and in the world that the main issues some seem to be concerned with are: ending unemployement insurance extensions, cutting the food stamp program, cutting social security, taxing the poor, making kids work for food... All this comes during a time when the gap between the rich and the poor is at it's greatest in generations and when we are still trying to recover from one of the worst economic downturns in our history. Why is this?

Maybe you should ask the millionaires in Congress and the White House that. Especially since almost all of them became millionaires after taking office. The easiest way to become a millionaire today is to become a politician.
Why are we cutting veterans benefits to give more benefits to illegals?
As long as the rich run this country nothing will change that benefits the poor.
All those things you're complaining about have to be signed off on by the guy in charge, so ask him.

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TimPhelan

12 years ago

Actually, most are already millionaires before they get to office. That's the real problem. :/

Originally Posted by ThomM

Especially since almost all of them became millionaires after taking office. The easiest way to become a millionaire today is to become a politician.

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Actually, most are already millionaires before they get to office. That's the real problem. :/

Well, they certainly get RICHER in office. MUCH richer! But many ARE politicians their whole life, and get money from THERE.

Steve

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Kay King

12 years ago

Yesterday's local paper highlighted a volunteer program here that is heart warming.

Volunteers provide "backpack meals" to kids who need food at home. These backpacks go with those kids every weekend and contain 2 days of meals to get them through till Monday.

This isn't government - these are people helping people. Kids are nominated by youth groups, churches, doctors, neighbors....anyone who sees a child who might not have enough to eat can nominate that kid.

The program has spread since it was started a few years ago. Today there are hundreds of backpacks sent home with needy kids every Friday.

The honesty is refreshing as quite a few parents have contacted the program to say they've gotten a job and can feed their kids again - so please give the food to someone who needs it more. When does that ever happen on a govt program?

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yukon

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Yesterday's local paper highlighted a volunteer program here that is heart warming.

Volunteers provide "backpack meals" to kids who need food at home. These backpacks go with those kids every weekend and contain 2 days of meals to get them through till Monday.

This isn't government - these are people helping people. Kids are nominated by youth groups, churches, doctors, neighbors....anyone who sees a child who might not have enough to eat can nominate that kid.

The program has spread since it was started a few years ago. Today there are hundreds of backpacks sent home with needy kids every Friday.

The honesty is refreshing as quite a few parents have contacted the program to say they've gotten a job and can feed their kids again - so please give the food to someone who needs it more. When does that ever happen on a govt program?

That's what I was talking about in my earlier post, a lot of kids have it rough without school meals. Imagine all the hungry kids that don't get backpacks with food, I'm sure it makes Mon. morning the highlight of the week (school food).

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MissTerraK 12 years ago

I think that is the most horrible suggestion I have ever heard! A child's psyche is so fragile in the formative years! I can't think for the life of me why someone, anyone would want to damage it. Don't they realize that poor children have brilliant minds too and the exact same potential to become a person who could change the world for the better with an invention or discovery, etc.?

But go ahead and create a situation that causes them to have low self esteem, low self worth, and a sign that reads I am less of a person, so pick on me and damage me further! Snuff out all of my potential and possibilities! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I have heard from so many people that they were poor growing up as a child and didn't even know it, didn't even realize it til they were older. Why can't it be that way again?

The one year we lived with my grandmother when our new home was being built, (it was the third grade for me) the school had a brilliant lunch program. See, they didn't have a cafeteria with a kitchen and all children either went home for lunch or brought their own and sat in the auditorium to eat.

But once every two weeks, they catered food in. Notes went home to inform the parents, and the parents sent money, I believe it was a quarter back then in a sealed envelope with the child's selection. No one went home that day. The lunches were hotdogs and fries some weeks and pizza and chips some weeks but both weeks there was also a selection for a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, either a celery or carrot stick and chips.

The morning of "lunch day" lunch tickets were handed out to the students. During lunch period, the kids handed in the tickets to the ladies at the serving table and got their selection. All of the kids whose parents couldn't afford to pay for a lunch did get the sandwich lunch. And since some children also selected the sandwich lunch because they didn't like hotdogs, like me, or the kind of pizza served, like my sister, the kids were never able to pick out the "poor" kids from their lunch.

All of the money collected was pooled together to pay for all of the catered lunches.

I thought it was pretty darn cool back then, lol!

Terra
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HeySal

12 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

Maybe you should ask the millionaires in Congress and the White House that. Especially since almost all of them became millionaires after taking office. The easiest way to become a millionaire today is to become a politician.
Why are we cutting veterans benefits to give more benefits to illegals?
As long as the rich run this country nothing will change that benefits the poor.
All those things you're complaining about have to be signed off on by the guy in charge, so ask him.

Right? I can just not believe I changed my major and career plans right after my stint on my college student gov. I was the Chief Justice and had a judical review board of a few staff and a few students and my Board ruled. I was so disgusted by the little conniving rodents we called the Senate that I rescinded their pay amendment the last week of school and dropped politics as an end plan. Screwed up big when I did that. I know a few politicians whose butts would be toast right now had I stayed in that direction. Man - kick me hard. Real hard.

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MikeTucker 12 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Man - kick me hard. Real hard.

Nah, rich people never want to go rock hounding. They are afraid
they will sweat outside of the sauna or the golf course.

I don't even like golf.
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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

I find it interesting that with all the very serious problems we face in this country and in the world that the main issues some seem to be concerned with are: ending unemployement insurance extensions, cutting the food stamp program, cutting social security, taxing the poor, making kids work for food... All this comes during a time when the gap between the rich and the poor is at it's greatest in generations and when we are still trying to recover from one of the worst economic downturns in our history. Why is this?

Half the time they talk about a CUT, they are talking about a cut in the INCREASE!

It is SICK that cuts in *****REAL***** social security should even be discussed. Of course, for those over maybe 60 or so, a lot that has been paid is UNREASONABLY low. SO, starting with the NEXT generation, they started charging a reasonable amount. With all the OTHERS getting paid, and the drain of the earlier generations, etc... The system can't support itself and they are using the later generations to make up for it. MANY now say that the younger people in my generation, and others, will see FAR less benefit from "Social Security". AND, if they SHOULD keep it, what will the NEXT generations have to pay?

DENMARK did a study, and found that increasing unemployment increased the length of time without a job!

As for the rich and poor? The poor are generally not as poor as those in the 20s, and the rich probably aren't as rich. Of course, inflation obscures this somewhat. A million dollars today is NOT really that much. Here, it is about enough to buy 20 "improved" acres of land, with NO home! You couldn't even buy 8 low end middle class homes, which would be on maybe a 1/4 acre. In california, you would probably get 1/3 as much.

Steve

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by LarryC

Wouldn't that encourage a caste system in schools (public or private), with kids from wealthier families getting used to poorer kids working while they don't have to do anything?

College students have a concept of working for their education, but young kids are basically victims of the families into which they were born. You might be able to train teachers and school officials to treat kids who work with respect, but what about other kids? It just seems like something that would drill in the idea of inequality at a young age.

You're going to turn this into an argument about THAT!?!?!? EITHER group can go to the same schools, marry people with different histories, etc... Some VERY rich people started out DIRT POOR, and some VERY poor people have, at times, been rich.

So it is quite different from a caste system.

Steve

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HeySal

12 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

You're going to turn this into an argument about THAT!?!?!? EITHER group can go to the same schools, marry people with different histories, etc... Some VERY rich people started out DIRT POOR, and some VERY poor people have, at times, been rich.

So it is quite different from a caste system.

Steve

No, it's not different. If you put poor kids to work for their food, you are actually building a caste system. Kids up to the legal working age are victims of circumstance. Making them sweep floors to be fed is indentured servitude. That builds more of a caste system than welfare does. And we KNOW what the average person thinks of welfare nowdays -- even at a time that the reason many are on welfare is because their jobs were closed. Add that to stagflation and you'll find that upward mobility is becoming more difficult every year. What people used to do in enterprise to better their existence is now often either too expensive and regulation laden to be feasible for them -- or just plain illegalized.

Example - the roadside vegetable stand. Holy cow - the regulations and licensing are now ridiculous - yet if you sell a few veggies from your garden in front of your house without them, you can be arrested.

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Marvin Johnston

12 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

So inflicting slavery on poor children is your idea of an answer to the entitlement attitude? What is the answer to the entitlement attitude of people that feel they have the right to put a child into slavery because they don't have as much money as the enslaver. Do you "get" it we're talking about young children? Worked for food, not for wages........but for food. Indentured servitude.

I repeat - you have to be a true brown shirt to even start to think like this. Congratulations on your indoctrination. Mussolini would have loved you.

I am just enraged that US citizens of any class or race would ever consider this even starting to be okay. Freaking like living in a Charles Dickens movie or a Stalin documentary.

If I have offended anyone with this post. Tough crap. I'm willing to risk it. I'm severely offended by anyone who thinks slaving out kids because mommy and daddy are broke is in any way a "good thing" -- let lone a good "learning" experience for a kid. The only lesson they'll learn is which side of a civil war they'll be on if it hits.

Well, you put an awful lot of opinion in your post not backed up by facts.

Let's start with you equating work (paying for ones own way) as slavery. That one boggles my mind as it implies long term welfare is okay... and instead you support slavery for the working people to support those who won't work.

TANSTAAFL

Not sure if you are serious with your comments. But if so, you leave a lot of holes in your arguments.

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HeySal

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Marvin Johnston

Well, you put an awful lot of opinion in your post not backed up by facts.

Let's start with you equating work (paying for ones own way) as slavery. That one boggles my mind as it implies long term welfare is okay... and instead you support slavery for the working people to support those who won't work.

TANSTAAFL

Not sure if you are serious with your comments. But if so, you leave a lot of holes in your arguments.

There are "holes" because I didn't write a dissertation. If you don't understand the sociology of class systems - crack a book. I don't have time or will to run sociology classes here.

Repeat - we aren't talking about adults or even high school kids - we're talking young children.
2 - poor kids being worked for their food. Workhouses. Remember workhouses? Slavery. You're okay with that?
3 - being slaved doesn't teach people dignity or enterprise. It teaches the weak to grovel - and the stronger to hate and develop subversive attitudes. Teaching children to develop their own way to make money teaches dignity and enterprise. If the kid were to strike the deal, they are engaging in barter or business. When forced to work for their food............repeat -- Slavery mentality, indentured servitude - they have no way to buy themselves out of it. The abuse will continue as long as the abuser wants it to. Now - where could that lead? Hmmmmm?
4 - it's class warfare. Maybe you don't understand how that works.
5- why not make the parents work for their children's food? If they are on welfare, let them sweep the floors, not their little kids.
6. It is one more step toward developing a class system social structure in the US. You know what happens in class systems? No matter what the kid "learns" there is no upward mobility. Good plan. Way good plan.

At least slavery 2000 won't be based on race - it will be based on how much money someone's parents had at the beginning of the class system divisions.

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Paul Myers 12 years ago

A government forcing children to work for food.

The only thing I find sicker is adults who think it's a good idea.

Post of the week.

The notion of subjecting children to shame they didn't earn at the most vulnerable time in their lives in order to eat is, in a country as wealthy as this one, a truly disturbing idea.
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Dennis Gaskill

12 years ago

I don't know anything about Jackson County, Georgia, but this seems like the kind of proposal that has the potential to be a career-ender if it went viral.

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KimW

12 years ago

There is a meme going around on FB that atributes this to various republicans.

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Midnight Oil

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Marvin Johnston

What is MUCH more shameful is the unwillingness to address why the action proposed in the OP is a good idea.

No, what is much more shameful is to encourage and allow the government to force children to work for food.

Seriously, you have no problem with a 7 year old being forced to clean his or her school in order to eat lunch there?

Originally Posted by Marvin Johnston

Let's start with you equating work (paying for ones own way) as slavery.

The government forcing a child to work for food is slavery.

Originally Posted by Marvin Johnston

That one boggles my mind as it implies long term welfare is okay

What boggles my mind is that you think something is wrong with feeding children and that doing so somehow equals a "long term welfare is okay" mentality.

Originally Posted by Marvin Johnston

and instead you support slavery for the working people to support those who won't work.

You're being ridiculous. We're talking about children, not "those who won't work."

Having said that, once a child gets to a legal working age, there may . . . may . . . be something more that can be done. I can see how the program might be workable if it were somehow tied in with a school's existing work program for teens.

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Marvin Johnston

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Midnight Oil

No, what is much more shameful is to encourage and allow the government to force children to work for food.

Seriously, you have no problem with a 7 year old being forced to clean his or her school in order to eat lunch there?

The government forcing a child to work for food is slavery.

What boggles my mind is that you think something is wrong with feeding children and that doing so somehow equals a "long term welfare is okay" mentality.

You're being ridiculous. We're talking about children, not "those who won't work."

Having said that, once a child gets to a legal working age, there may . . . may . . . be something more that can be done. I can see how the program might be workable if it were somehow tied in with a school's existing work program for teens.

Why are you promoting killing the minds of defenseless children?

Oh, you say that is not what you said???

Then don't put words in my mouth or take my comments out of context either.

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ThomM

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Marvin Johnston

Why are you promoting killing the minds of defenseless children?

Oh, you say that is not what you said???

Then don't put words in my mouth or take my comments out of context either.

Actually you are the one who took Sal's comments way out of context with your reply to her post.
Midnight oil simply pointed that out.

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Joe Mobley

12 years ago

So... most of you are pretty happy (satisfied) with the current free lunch program?

Joe Mobley

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Marvin Johnston 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Joe Mobley

So... most of you are pretty happy (satisfied) with the current free lunch program?

Joe Mobley

Just replace the word "free" with "subsidized" so people aren't mislead about what is really happening .
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ThomM 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Joe Mobley

So... most of you are pretty happy (satisfied) with the current free lunch program?

Joe Mobley

From what I remember when my kids were in school it's not really a bad program. Every year we got a form from the school that asked our gross income and number of children in school and total number of people in the household. For us the kids lunches cost 25 cents. The students were issued a "debt" card and you put the money in their account. If the account didn't have the money in it needed for lunch they didn't eat.
But you have to keep in mind there are many other things we had to buy our kids for school, that the schools required.
Those included things like specific types of notebooks, specific size index cards and even calculators. There were more things, many which bordered on stupid.
At the beginning of the school year we received a list of items needed. In didn't matter if you could afford them or not. If your child didn't have the required supplies for a class they got to sit in detention for that period.
As for being pretty happy with the lunch program, I would of been happier if they weren't feeding the kids crap for food.
Instead of bitching about kids getting free lunches, how about the administrators who are receiving exorbitant salaries? Cut out the number of administrators needed in a school (opposite of what common core does) and use the money saved to provide free lunches to all students.
After all they're not really free, our school taxes pay for they (or they would if that money wasn't going towards an admins BMW)
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Claude Whitacre

12 years ago

I'm all for teaching children responsibility. I think it's a major part of raising your kids. When I first read the OP, I thought the idea may have merit.

But we are talking about kids, being set apart, because their parents are poor.

Remember when you were in school? Remember the poor kid in class? I do.
Was it his fault? No. It was his parent's fault.

It isn't about making kids work. Ever pay a kid for shoveling your walk? Mowing your lawn?
When a kid offers to shovel my walk, I always say "Yes". And I never think "That poor kid needs a handout". I always think "That kid deserves to get paid. And he's industrious. I wish more kids were like that".

If they help around the school, a free lunch is actually pretty poor compensation.

It's the fact that everyone will know why the kid is working in the school. Not because they want to. Not because they are industrious. Not because they have school spirit, but only because they are the "poor kids".

And "Poor kids" get treated differently in school. And it's not a "Nice" different.
Poor kids, that are seen as the poor kids, aren't the popular kids.

Personally, I think the comment made by the politician was an off handed comment, with no weight. It's just something else to grab onto to create a political attack.

But, if given thought, not a very good idea.

Now, tell the parents that if they work a few hours a week, their kid will get free lunches? That may get a different reaction.

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thunderbird

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

<snip>
Remember when you were in school? Remember the poor kid in class? I do.
Was it his fault? No. It was his parent's fault.<snip>

Sometimes it is nobody's fault.

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Claude Whitacre

12 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

Sometimes it is nobody's fault.

I have to agree with you. I should have said "it's the parent's responsibility". I agree, there are some people who just don't have it, and never will.

"Fault" implies a judgement that wasn't thought out.

But I do believe that it's the parent's responsibility. And that word was thought out.

Originally Posted by thunderbird

Sometimes they are, by the power of personality. I remember a popular poor kid who made no effort to hide it, but actually turned it around as a selling point for himself, that he didn't need a rich family to prop him up.

Not rich. Responsible. I agree that not every kid seen as poor is ridiculed. But it sure doesn't help. And your example may be more an exception than a rule.

Also, what I think of as "poor" may be different than what you think of as poor.
That's a guess.

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thunderbird

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

<snip>

Not rich. Responsible. I agree that not every kid seen as poor is ridiculed. But it sure doesn't help. And your example may be more an exception than a rule.

Also, what I think of as "poor" may be different than what you think of as poor.
That's a guess.

Sadly, I believe you're right. Kids do get singled out over anything that suggests a difference or disadvantage (come to think of it, it is the same with adults). In a fairly recent article that I read on bullying, one cause for a kid being singled out and bullied was if they were from a poor neighborhood, as revealed by, say, where they step off the school bus.

Sorry for being "Mr. Contrary" and picking on your well-thought-out responses in this thread.

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thunderbird

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

<snip>

And "Poor kids" get treated differently in school. And it's not a "Nice" different.
Poor kids, that are seen as the poor kids, aren't the popular kids. <snip>

Sometimes they are, by the power of personality. I remember a popular poor kid who made no effort to hide it, but actually turned it around as a selling point for himself, that he didn't need a rich family to prop him up.

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HeySal 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Joe Mobley

So... most of you are pretty happy (satisfied) with the current free lunch program?

Joe Mobley

When I was a kid we didn't spit on people for being poor. Up to high school age, I think it's every kid's right to have enough to eat just because they are humans who are not in control of their circumstances.

When they are young is when we are supposed to be teaching them - not working them. Teach them to think of ways to make money for themselves and let them dabble at it ..........if you can get gov to stop arresting them for lemonade stands. Teach them about money. Working a kid for food teaches them nothing about money if it is done via force and shame.

When they reach High school age - give them options to work for either vouchers or cash (like work is supposed to be paid for...wages....ya know) that they can buy their own vouchers with. If a kid reaches high school age and has not one damned clue about ways to make some money.........the parents and the schools both have failed miserably.

I don't have a problem with feeding little children. I have a problem with funding false wars, politicians vacations, subsidizing multi-billion dollar corporations, etc. Check where most of your tax money is going and see if feeding kids is really what you find objectionable in that list of spending.
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Marvin Johnston

12 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

Actually you are the one who took Sal's comments way out of context with your reply to her post.
Midnight oil simply pointed that out.

Actually Sal took my comments WAY out of context, and I responded in kind. I would have thought that should have been obvious.

Reread all the comments with that in mind, and it should be pretty clear what is happening.

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ThomM

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Marvin Johnston

Actually Sal took my comments WAY out of context, and I responded in kind. I would have thought that should have been obvious.

Reread all the comments with that in mind, and it should be pretty clear what is happening.

There's a lot of "out of context" comments floating around.
Sal did it, you did it, I did it, and the list goes on

One of the joys of having a conversation on the internet

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Midnight Oil

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Marvin Johnston

Why are you promoting killing the minds of defenseless children?

Oh, you say that is not what you said???

Then don't put words in my mouth or take my comments out of context either.

Feel free to clear up anything you think I may have misinterpreted.

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Michael Mayo

12 years ago

Avoiding all the thread tangents, I just want to say that if you have ever eaten a school lunch then you should know it's totally wrong to make anyone pay for it let alone work for it (excluding SOME of the catered).

As ThomM said above, I can remember when my wife and I received forms from the schools asking financial info from us in order to receive discounts and/or free meals for our children.

At the time it seemed like a helping hand although we declined giving the info to them.

My wife and I both had went through the process of trying to pay for discounted lunches our parents had set up for us in elementary school. Everyone would look at you with a weird look and it was demeaning.

I remember the first time I made my own lunch to take with me to school and hearing my mother say "Why are you making a lunch when you can get one at school for .25? I told her because school lunches were nasty tasting and I wouldn't eat them. Then I told her that it was cheaper for me to take a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and some chips than to pay for something I won't eat. At the time a Jar of peanut butter was about $2.50, jelly about $1.75, loaf of bread .75 and a large bag of chips about $1.25. which totaled $6.25 plus. It would last me a month! At the time my lunches would have cost me(in a 4 wk month)$5.00. I chose to do extra work around the house to earn the difference saving myself the embarrassment of having to stand out like that in the crowd.

I had a bunch of Multi-Quotes cued up and was ready to lite some wicks then I choose not to waste the brain cells and continue with what I was doing before I read the OP...lol

Have a Great Day!
Michael

PS, I did have to buy more bread!

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Paul Myers

12 years ago

Wouldn't that encourage a caste system in schools (public or private), with kids from wealthier families getting used to poorer kids working while they don't have to do anything?

Possibly. Like so many things that involve social factors, it would depend more on the implementation than the idea itself.

It would not work, or be appropriate, in a publicly-funded school. In a private school setting, with all students having the option, it could. And if it did, it would be a very positive learning experience.

Just a "toss it out there" thought at the moment.

Paul

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ThomM

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Mayo

Avoiding all the thread tangents, I just want to say that if you have ever eaten a school lunch then you should know it's totally wrong to make anyone pay for it let alone work for it (excluding SOME of the catered).

As ThomM said above, I can remember when my wife and I received forms from the schools asking financial info from us in order to receive discounts and/or free meals for our children.

At the time it seemed like a helping hand although we declined giving the info to them.

My wife and I both had went through the process of trying to pay for discounted lunches our parents had set up for us in elementary school. Everyone would look at you with a weird look and it was demeaning.

I remember the first time I made my own lunch to take with me to school and hearing my mother say "Why are you making a lunch when you can get one at school for .25? I told her because school lunches were nasty tasting and I wouldn't eat them. Then I told her that it was cheaper for me to take a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and some chips than to pay for something I won't eat. At the time a Jar of peanut butter was about $2.50, jelly about $1.75, loaf of bread .75 and a large bag of chips about $1.25. which totaled $6.25 plus. It would last me a month! At the time my lunches would have cost me(in a 4 wk month)$5.00. I chose to do extra work around the house to earn the difference saving myself the embarrassment of having to stand out like that in the crowd.

I had a bunch of Multi-Quotes cued up and was ready to lite some wicks then I choose not to waste the brain cells and continue with what I was doing before I read the OP...lol

Have a Great Day!
Michael

PS, I did have to buy more bread!

To tell the truth I had never had a school lunch and at the time we had kids in school didn't know much about them.
The school I went to was small, but serviced the whole village.
My mother graduated from there so even after we moved to the country full time I still went to it. The village was small enough that every kid could go home for lunch. If you couldn't go home then you brought a lunch and ate in your homeroom or went to the grocery store two blocks away that sold sandwiches and had booths.
Our kids not only got lunch in school but could also get breakfast if they wanted to. The reason being they would often have to catch the school bus at 6am. Ah the joys of living in the country

At the time we both worked so we normally didn't have time to fix lunches for 3.

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HeySal

12 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

To tell the truth I had never had a school lunch and at the time we had kids in school didn't know much about them.
The school I went to was small, but serviced the whole village.
My mother graduated from there so even after we moved to the country full time I still went to it. The village was small enough that every kid could go home for lunch. If you couldn't go home then you brought a lunch and ate in your homeroom or went to the grocery store two blocks away that sold sandwiches and had booths.
Our kids not only got lunch in school but could also get breakfast if they wanted to. The reason being they would often have to catch the school bus at 6am. Ah the joys of living in the country

At the time we both worked so we normally didn't have time to fix lunches for 3.

We didn't get school lunches until we got to the High school building. Before that if you stayed at school for lunch it was because you brought it from home - otherwise you went home to eat.

I lived in a rich town and the poor kids in our town were akin to the average or even maybe just a tad higher than average income kids in other towns. Our school lunches were phenomenal. My high school group from facebook has actually procured and passed around recipes our school cook used to use and we covet those recipes. I think you might have even eaten one of them, Thom - the chicken rolls with gravy? Yum huh? Good wholesome real food from local farms.

Schools now serve chemical laced GMO foods to those kids and if I had a kid in school I wouldn't allow him to eat their food. If the school had a problem with that - well that's what home schooling is for.

Frankly - I'm sick of parents thinking of schools as nannies and dumping kids they didn't even want in the first place in school and figuring the teachers will raise the kids for them. It's not the kids we need to punish for being poor -- we need to make the parents (read: adults) responsible for their child's costs. I didn't have their kid - I already pay their welfare because they had kids they aren't supporting. Make the parents work to pay for their kid's food. Let the kids see mommy and daddy being held responsible for their own actions and maybe the kid will be ashamed enough that they will work harder to break away by the time they are old enough to start thinking of working. Maybe if we start holding parents responsible for their own kid's upkeep and letting them bear the shame of sweeping floors to feed their kids they might just do something constructive like get sterilized and not have any more.

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tomm

12 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Let the kids see mommy and daddy being held responsible for their own actions and maybe the kid will be ashamed enough that they will work harder to break away by the time they are old enough to start thinking of working. Maybe if we start holding parents responsible for their own kid's upkeep and letting them bear the shame of sweeping floors to feed their kids they might just do something constructive like get sterilized and not have any more.

That would create a caste system too.

Another point is: Sweeping floors should never be seen as a shame.

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Claude Whitacre

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Mayo

Avoiding all the thread tangents, I just want to say that if you have ever eaten a school lunch then you should know it's totally wrong to make anyone pay for it let alone work for it (excluding SOME of the catered).

As ThomM said above, I can remember when my wife and I received forms from the schools asking financial info from us in order to receive discounts and/or free meals for our children.

At the time it seemed like a helping hand although we declined giving the info to them.

My wife and I both had went through the process of trying to pay for discounted lunches our parents had set up for us in elementary school. Everyone would look at you with a weird look and it was demeaning.

I remember the first time I made my own lunch to take with me to school and hearing my mother say "Why are you making a lunch when you can get one at school for .25? I told her because school lunches were nasty tasting and I wouldn't eat them. Then I told her that it was cheaper for me to take a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and some chips than to pay for something I won't eat. At the time a Jar of peanut butter was about $2.50, jelly about $1.75, loaf of bread .75 and a large bag of chips about $1.25. which totaled $6.25 plus. It would last me a month! At the time my lunches would have cost me(in a 4 wk month)$5.00. I chose to do extra work around the house to earn the difference saving myself the embarrassment of having to stand out like that in the crowd.

I had a bunch of Multi-Quotes cued up and was ready to lite some wicks then I choose not to waste the brain cells and continue with what I was doing before I read the OP...lol

Have a Great Day!
Michael

PS, I did have to buy more bread!

I can't believe I'm going to say this...

The idea to simply pack your own lunch...simply never occurred to me.

Anyone want my "Genius" badge? I don't need it any longer.

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ThomM

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I can't believe I'm going to say this...

The idea to simply pack your own lunch...simply never occurred to me.

Anyone want my "Genius" badge? I don't need it any longer.

Problem with that is schools are starting to ban bagged lunches.
Many have already banned things like peanut butter because some kid in the school may have a peanut allergy.
Chicago school bans some lunches brought from home - Chicago Tribune

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Dan Riffle 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Anyone want my "Genius" badge? I don't need it any longer.

No, it was tainted to begin with.
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Claude Whitacre

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I can't believe I'm going to say this...

The idea to simply pack your own lunch...simply never occurred to me.

Anyone want my "Genius" badge? I don't need it any longer.

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

No, it was tainted to begin with.

It isn't tainted. That's a blood stain. I beat up Stephen Hawking and took it from him. He didn't put up much of a fight.

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tomm

12 years ago

Why not make all the kids, rich and poor, sweep the floor together and then, all kids get the free lunch?

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garyv

12 years ago

I'll play devil's advocate and be one of the very few contrarians to what has already been posted. I come from a family that is full of educational workers, and I can tell you that a vast majority of the school districts out there are extremely low on funds.

So what has been proposed here may not be something to single poor kids out, but provide for them a way around the already very tight budgets and allow them to still eat. - And while kids should not be punished by working for their food - they should also not be punished by not providing them ANY opportunity we possibly can to get them food to eat.

I can tell you as a kid that a majority of the time didn't eat lunch at school, because my parents had no money, that I would have gladly worked for something to eat. Kids already knew I was poor - I was the one that never had a lunch.

Sometimes we jump on these scenarios w/ the assumptions that some rich person is somewhere hoarding money and will somehow give up some of that money for a kid's school lunch. It doesn't work that way. Sometimes you have to think outside of the box to make a budget work. Having a kid sweep the floor for some lunch money may seem cruel - but not allowing him a lunch because the scenario looks bad is even more cruel.

JMO

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HeySal

12 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

I'll play devil's advocate and be one of the very few contrarians to what has already been posted. I come from a family that is full of educational workers, and I can tell you that a vast majority of the school districts out there are extremely low on funds.

So what has been proposed here may not be something to single poor kids out, but provide for them a way around the already very tight budgets and allow them to still eat. - And while kids should not be punished by working for their food - they should also not be punished by not providing them ANY opportunity we possibly can to get them food to eat.

I can tell you as a kid that a majority of the time didn't eat lunch at school, because my parents had no money, that I would have gladly worked for something to eat. Kids already knew I was poor - I was the one that never had a lunch.

Sometimes we jump on these scenarios w/ the assumptions that some rich person is somewhere hoarding money and will somehow give up some of that money for a kid's school lunch. It doesn't work that way. Sometimes you have to think outside of the box to make a budget work. Having a kid sweep the floor for some lunch money may seem cruel - but not allowing him a lunch because the scenario looks bad is even more cruel.

JMO

Ya think so huh? Schools don't have money because the Dept of Ed wastes all of it. Serious - watch their offices some time. They have continual banquets (several times a week continual) that cost hundreds and they throw out sooooo much of the food. They throw out supplies like you wouldn't believe, too - I've seen whole dumpsters of things like three ring binders, books, etc. The people in that department feel entitled to waste anything they want to. They go through all the money they want, then give the rest to the kids. It's disgraceful at the very least. I call it criminal.

We already have a welfare system -- so we already have a class system that is becoming America's "untouchables". If you don't believe me just google around a little bit and find out how people feel about people on welfare. It doesn't matter why you are on welfare, or for how long - once you are there, the gov makes it as hard as they can for you to break away and the population at large sees you as a leech, mooch, loser, etc. I think I'd rather go without a roof or food than have to deal with the gov beating the welfare mentality into me and have the public spitting on me for having the nerve to be poor and not kill myself.

One way -- the one way -- I can see putting poor kids to work without incriminating them - - turning them into the "untouchable" class, is to teach the barter system to all of the kids. "I have food - what will you do for me in exchange for some?" Set up a few things, not just sweep the floor for food. Then have the kids get together and talk about their experience. Did they feel it was a fair exchange? Why or why not. What would have been a better deal, etc.

I'm sorry - but when you point to a little kid and tell them that they are poor so they will sweep the floor for their food, you are not only tampering with slavery and child labor laws (which were enacted for a damned reason hello) you have become an elitist who thinks that it needs to be pointed out that the poor are not as good as anyone else. It's shameful. This is not an idea of helping to "educate" children about anything but learning that they are servants of those in classes above them. It teaches them to be ashamed of who they are - and it will teach the other kids to treat these kids like crap under their shoe, too.

Did anyone who agrees with this "program" ever - Ever - EVER crack a history and sociology book? Ever? Seriously - the lack of education that shows in this argument makes me wonder how this country lasted this long when the under-educated are allowed to spew chow about how it's okay to treat a poor kid like he's less relevant in the world because his mommy and daddy aren't the "right caliber" people.

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garyv

12 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Did anyone who agrees with this "program" ever - Ever - EVER crack a history and sociology book? Ever? Seriously - the lack of education that shows in this argument makes me wonder how this country lasted this long when the under-educated are allowed to spew chow about how it's okay to treat a poor kid like he's less relevant in the world because his mommy and daddy aren't the "right caliber" people.

No one's even saying to treat them like they are less relevant. Whether we like to believe it or not, there are many districts out here that are very much underfunded. And the point is to keep these kids fed while still being able to fund an education. Money does not grow on trees. - In the private school my kids attend, kids clean not only the lunchroom, but also their own classrooms before they leave each day. I don't see anything wrong with using funds - normally used to keep the school clean - to feed children that are willing to work for it. - This entire country was built on the fact that children had to do farming chores, otherwise they wouldn't eat. In fact this form of learning responsibility should very well be a part of their education. Then maybe we wouldn't have so many young adults coming out of these school systems with an entitlement mentality.

Money does not appear from thin air. It must be earned and properly budgeted. Yes you could argue that there's mismanagement going on. Sometimes that's true - but most of the time right now it's a lack of any type of budget. There are no funds to be mismanaged. It's a bad economy, and there's nothing wrong with finagling a budget in a new way to make sure a child gets some food.

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