YOU NEED TO KNOW - UKRAINE IS ON FIRE! I AM CRYING!

by maksym
289 replies
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Hi Warriors!
May be you heard from news about the situation in Ukraine, but I decided
to share here some information as well. The situation is so critical that at any moment civil war can start! I do want that ALL WARRIORS around the world should know what is going in my country!



And here is one video (please take out children from your computer)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0zD3pOG-Tk

regards
Warrior Maksym V
#ukraine #war
  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    I wish the best for the people of Ukraine.
    Signature

    Project HERE.

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    • Profile picture of the author maksym
      Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

      I wish the best for the people of Ukraine.
      Thaaanks! Canada is always a huuuge friend and partner for our people!
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      • Profile picture of the author Devin X
        Banned
        Originally Posted by maksym View Post

        Thaaanks! Canada is always a huuuge friend and partner for our people!
        I'm sorry to hear it. Don't forget about your friends in the U.S. We'll probably be getting involved very soon in more ways than one. We always do.
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        • Profile picture of the author maksym
          Originally Posted by TheRealDudeman View Post

          I'm sorry to hear it. Don't forget about your friends in the U.S. We'll probably be getting involved very soon in more ways than one. We always do.
          Yes, you are right! Actually, we already asked soooo much your government to take actions and block banking accounts of people who are responsible for nightmare in Ukraine.
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          • Profile picture of the author HN
            Banned
            Originally Posted by maksym View Post

            Yes, you are right! Actually, we already asked soooo much your government to take actions and block banking accounts of people who are responsible for nightmare in Ukraine.
            Which government did you ask to block banking accounts of Victoria Nuland?

            http://www.theguardian.com/world/vid...l-leaked-video

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur..._7OZX1xg#t=519

            Have you, Maksym, actually read the agreement between the UA and EU?
            UA was offered to join EU under conditions which would devastate the country. Break down all the industry and take over the natural resources eventually, for free.
            How can any sane citizen of Ukraine (Russian or Ukrainian) want to join EU under such conditions?
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            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
              Originally Posted by HN View Post

              Which government did you ask to block banking accounts of Victoria Nuland?

              http://www.theguardian.com/world/vid...l-leaked-video

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur..._7OZX1xg#t=519

              Have you, Maksym, actually read the agreement between the UA and EU?
              UA was offered to join EU under conditions which would devastate the country. Break down all the industry and take over the natural resources eventually, for free.
              How can any sane citizen of Ukraine (Russian or Ukrainian) want to join EU under such conditions?
              I was curious, so I skimmed the info on wikipedia. ADMITTEDLY they, or I, could have missed something, but HERE is what I got from it. 1. Some russian aligned countries would break relations. That is understandable, considering the conflict. It is called the DCFTA and is likely the SAME one that moldova and Georgia signed! WHY THESE THREE? Perhaps it is because, as russian countries, they are the only ones having such ties. 2. ALSO "ukrainian law" is an impediment. Apparently, they have a dual tiered system so oligarchs are judged differently. 3. ALSO, the courts are setup in about the worst way possible. They have ONE STRANGER, who may be "encouraged" to vote the wrong way, DECIDE! I imagine the EU does it in a FAR better way as I couldn't see them as standing for the ukranian way. The US is certainly different, I can tell you THAT much!

              So what are YOU saying that the ukraine would give up?
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              • Profile picture of the author HN
                Banned
                Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                So what are YOU saying that the ukraine would give up?
                I didn't really want to waste my time on this, but here you go.
                When Estonia joined EU, they (EU) banned Ukrainian goods here, esp. the sugar. Estonia was importing cheap sugar from Ukraine for pennies, but since that was hurting EU they imposed huge fine on Estonia for importing sugar and made us buy European sugar for 3-4 times higher price.
                Last year Estonian industry produced more milk than EU had allowed. Again, the Estonian milk producers had to pay huge fine for exceeding the quotes.
                When Estonia switched to Euro most prices went up by 50 - 100%. Eg. air mail letter to US was 0.56 EUR (9 EEK), went up to 1.10 EUR.

                What Ukraine would give up? Their independence of course. Why would they want to become another EU colony and let EU tell their local businesses and industry what they can or can't do? It will have no impact on their IT businesses, that this guy was mentioning, but think about the average people.
                They are fighting for freedom and independence? WTH? Like UA isn't an independent country? On the contrary they are trying to give up their freedom and independence and become a EU colony.

                They probably want to switch to Euro as well. Well, the country that can't even print it's own money, isn't an independent country. Their people do the hard work to provide the goods and services and just get paper in return. All the EU has to do is print some money.
                Think about it. Russia, Saudi Arabia are trading 10 tonnes of gold (oil, gas) for 1 ton of paper (US dollars) which cost like a few cents per $100 bill. If it's e-money, they don't even have to waste paper and ink. No wonder they are after Iran, because Iran refuses to trade their goods for useless paper (dollars). There are a few other countries that ware planning to dump dollars - Iraq (preferred EUR to USD) and Libya (were about to switch to golden dinar).

                Saudis hold 600+ B, or close to a trillion useless dollars. Not sure how much Russia holds. This money is useless. There are no goods that US can provide for this money.

                What will happen to Ukraine? EU will ban them to import cheap goods from Russia and other non-EU countries and make them spend twice as much money on EU goods, making the people even poorer than before. I can't imagine how naive people can get and think that if they join EU their salaries will magically go up to match the salaries in EU countries.
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                • Profile picture of the author maksym
                  Originally Posted by HN View Post

                  ....

                  What will happen to Ukraine? EU will ban them to import cheap goods from Russia and other non-EU countries and make them spend twice as much money on EU goods, making the people even poorer than before. I can't imagine how naive people can get and think that if they join EU their salaries will magically go up to match the salaries in EU countries.
                  Hi HN
                  thanks for your point of view. But I disagree with you. I am not speaking that life in EU is awesome without any problems. The criticial point here is do we want to go to Russia or to EU. Do we want to live with rules like in North Korea or like in EU. That's why the asnwer is obvious one - if to choose between 2 of them, EU is better choice. Right?
                  Now, regarding EU products and prices. I am going to Poland time to time and let me tell you that products over there like by 40-50% cheaper than in UKRAINE! The perfect example is with cars. Audi 6 has a price 3-5K in Poland (used one), in Ukraine - 13-15K. And I can provide you a lot of such examples. As about Russia products, who wants them??? Russian iPhone? Russian car? Russia vodka? So... we can live without them.

                  regards
                  Maksym
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                  • Profile picture of the author HN
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by maksym View Post

                    The perfect example is with cars. Audi 6 has a price 3-5K in Poland (used one), in Ukraine - 13-15K. And I can provide you a lot of such examples. As about Russia products, who wants them??? Russian iPhone? Russian car? Russia vodka? So... we can live without them.

                    regards
                    Maksym
                    That's too cheap you want to sell your country to EU. Give up the freedom for cheap cars? How many of those do you need to buy during the lifetime? Why do you compare Russia to North Korea? Those are opposites. What's wrong with having death penalty for prostitution? Sure NK is too extreme, but what's wrong with banning the western movies that promote prostitution, drugs, smoking and alcohol? You just mentioned Vodka. So you prefer Marlboro to Russian Vodka? Do you think western cigarettes or alcohol is better, or you think people will magically stop drinking and smoking? Can you name at least one recent western movie where smoking and drinking weren't promoted? At least Russians talk about it.
                    Е'„имов Глобал'ŒÐ½Ð¾Ðµ 'ƒÐ¿'€Ð°Ð²Ð»ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ðµ - полна' ве'€'Ð¸'! - YouTube

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...3xpxP-s#t=6174
                    It's not the Russian people or language that are your problems, it's the government and politicians. Why don't you learn from other countries that joined EU and had their economies crushed? How about Greece, Romania, Bulgaria?

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gzv65Wd95O4
                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NWncKjBPPM
                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQao12Ae5-g
                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mNmKlrkTBM
                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz_VhsyVbmI
                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-jXd9KO8oU
                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfsArL_0keg

                    In Russia only 5 GMO products are legal, in US over 170. Europe is getting worse as well. No wonder the owners of this world want to break down Russia, and Ukraine is just a tool in their hands, people being puppets who will be disposed when the goal is achieved. Do you really think EU or US care about people of Ukraine? I mean the owners, not the average people who are basically cool in any country of the world.

                    Finally, you were being sarcastic about Russian iPhone. But why won't Ukraine invent it's own high technology? Or start building HQ cars? Why do you think you have to chose the sides? Did it only take a couple of decades for people to realize that they don't really know what to do with their independence and freedom that they gained from USSR?

                    Am I missing something? Is Ukraine being forced to chose sides? By who?
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                  • Profile picture of the author HN
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by maksym View Post

                    That's why the asnwer is obvious one - if to choose between 2 of them, EU is better choice. Right?
                    regards
                    Maksym
                    I realize that you probably don't have time to check all the links, but how would you comment this one:
                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-jX...tailpage#t=930

                    Ukraine is exporting 80% of goods to Russia and 20% to EU. When you join EU, the Russian border will be closed so to speak. Where are you going to sell your goods? To EU? That video ridicules this idea. What can you say about it?
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                    • Profile picture of the author maksym
                      Originally Posted by HN View Post

                      I realize that you probably don't have time to check all the links, but how would you comment this one:
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-jX...tailpage#t=930

                      Ukraine is exporting 80% of goods to Russia and 20% to EU. When you join EU, the Russian border will be closed so to speak. Where are you going to sell your goods? To EU? That video ridicules this idea. What can you say about it?
                      Thanks one more time for sharing your point of view.
                      But the question is not about card. You made an example with products in your Estonia and I made an example with cars in Ukraine. Most important is about the situation with freedom in Russia. Make reserch in Youtube as long as you want about the situation with Russia. Just one quick video about cars of Putin:

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsPO_l2UagU

                      Now about products, yes, nobody said that it will be easy at the beginning, but again, there is way more opportunities with global markets than with Russia.

                      And the last point about the lates situation with Crimea, it does show who is friend and who is not. Georgia, Poland, Canada and many, many other countries showed sooooo huge help. And what we got from Russia?

                      Lastly, if you don't like EU and situation in Estonia, simply go to Russia or Belarus and that's it. Or do you wait when Russia will protect russians in Estonia and invade it? That what I tried to tell to everybody - don't sit and wait. If you don't like - you can change your place.

                      regards
                      Maksym
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                      • Profile picture of the author HN
                        Banned
                        Originally Posted by maksym View Post

                        Lastly, if you don't like EU and situation in Estonia, simply go to Russia or Belarus and that's it. Or do you wait when Russia will protect russians in Estonia and invade it? That what I tried to tell to everybody - don't sit and wait. If you don't like - you can change your place.

                        regards
                        Maksym
                        Protect Russians in Estonia? From what or whom? Russian people can easily speak Russian in shops, banks, hospitals (90% of nurses are Russian), there are Russian schools and kindergartens. Russia invading Estonia is even sillier idea. There is no reason for that, hint - no natural resources. If there were any it would have already been taken over, not by Russia, but by US like Iraq or Libya, under pretense of human rights violation.

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z340Oa40iAI

                        Why should I go to Belarus if I am Estonian? You don't have to be Russian to understand what is going on in the world and avoid being manipulated and threatened by boogieman (Osama or Putin). After all, Russians don't even have to leave Estonia, they can just move to Narva where 90% of population and all the infrastructure is Russian. You can't even buy aspirin there if you don't speak Estonian. LOL, Russians need protection in Estonia.
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                        • Profile picture of the author maksym
                          Originally Posted by HN View Post

                          Protect Russians in Estonia? From what or whom? Russian people can easily speak Russian in shops, banks, hospitals (90% of nurses are Russian), there are Russian schools and kindergartens. Russia invading Estonia is even sillier idea. There is no reason for that, hint - no natural resources. If there were any it would have already been taken over, not by Russia, but by US like Iraq or Libya, under pretense of human rights violation.

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z340Oa40iAI

                          Why should I go to Belarus if I am Estonian? You don't have to be Russian to understand what is going on in the world and avoid being manipulated and threatened by boogieman (Osama or Putin). After all, Russians don't even have to leave Estonia, they can just move to Narva where 90% of population and all the infrastructure is Russian. You can't even buy aspirin there if you don't speak Estonian. LOL, Russians need protection in Estonia.
                          So... what is the purpose of writing previous posts? If you are ok with Estonia - than what is the reason to say about how it was in your country?
                          May be let's compare prices on the market 40-50 years ago and now??? Everywhere prices are going higher. Right? That's why dinosaurs dies because they couldn't adjust themselves to the changes.
                          And now you are saying that Russians need protection in Estonia. LOL. It looks like you do want to be back in USSR. But those times are OVER.

                          regards
                          Maksym V
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                          • Profile picture of the author HN
                            Banned
                            Originally Posted by maksym View Post

                            So... what is the purpose of writing previous posts? If you are ok with Estonia - than what is the reason to say about how it was in your country?
                            And now you are saying that Russians need protection in Estonia. LOL. It looks like you do want to be back in USSR. But those times are OVER.

                            regards
                            Maksym V
                            1. Did I say Russians need protection??? I quote myself: "LOL, do you REALLY think Russians need protection in Estonia?"

                            2. I am not OK with Estonia or it's dumb politicians and people who are killing themselves by consuming tobacco, alcohol, GMO and taking vaccines. I am however OK IN Estonia, just like I would be OK in almost any country of the world that has an internet connection, ATMs to withdraw money and a low crime rate. I worked in Estonian government agency, but quit in 1999 and never had a boss since. I am independent. Not 100% as I don't produce my own electricity or grow my own food. But I don't have to work, my computer does it for me even while I sleep.
                            If I lost my internet business I could go to any European city and make 500 EUR a day selling the knowledge I possess to some random people on the streets, or rather in libraries or bookstores, that's where you might locate intelligent people who would pay for knowledge. I 'll be shooting a documentary about me doing this in Sweden and Lithuania this summer.
                            I am not OK however with everyone else being poor. To have a stable society you need the average people at least being able to pay for shelter and food, which is not going to happen in UA if they join EU.
                            BTW, do you know that in Spain there is tax for using private solar panels? What? The government has monopolized the sun? Go ahead and join EU, they will soon make you pay for the air you are breathing.
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                • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                  Originally Posted by HN View Post

                  I didn't really want to waste my time on this, but here you go.
                  When Estonia joined EU, they (EU) banned Ukrainian goods here, esp. the sugar. Estonia was importing cheap sugar from Ukraine for pennies, but since that was hurting EU they imposed huge fine on Estonia for importing sugar and made us buy European sugar for 3-4 times higher price.
                  Well, that IS part of that trade agreement I mentioned. If the ukraine joined, it would allow estonia to buy from them again!

                  Last year Estonian industry produced more milk than EU had allowed. Again, the Estonian milk producers had to pay huge fine for exceeding the quotes.
                  When Estonia switched to Euro most prices went up by 50 - 100%. Eg. air mail letter to US was 0.56 EUR (9 EEK), went up to 1.10 EUR.
                  Yeah, a lot of federations, and the US, work like that. some "states" get subsidies, some don't, etc... The EU, like all before it, is give and take.

                  What Ukraine would give up? Their independence of course. Why would they want to become another EU colony and let EU tell their local businesses and industry what they can or can't do? It will have no impact on their IT businesses, that this guy was mentioning, but think about the average people.
                  Yeah, you can go it alone, or unite with some larger entity. I always disliked that, but the world is setup for it. At one point, the average person did EVERYTHING for them. Eventually, they probably realized they could specialize, and do things in bulk. They lost skills, and someone decided to control them, and they had kingdoms. People didn't like that, so they tried to be fairer. Eventually, wars were fought, and they outsourced THAT. The EU is one of the latest incarnations of that. The USSR(which russia is trying to become again) was another. The US is another.

                  They are fighting for freedom and independence? WTH? Like UA isn't an independent country? On the contrary they are trying to give up their freedom and independence and become a EU colony.
                  As I implied, the lesser of two evils.

                  They probably want to switch to Euro as well. Well, the country that can't even print it's own money, isn't an independent country. Their people do the hard work to provide the goods and services and just get paper in return. All the EU has to do is print some money.
                  Think about it. Russia, Saudi Arabia are trading 10 tonnes of gold (oil, gas) for 1 ton of paper (US dollars) which cost like a few cents per $100 bill. If it's e-money, they don't even have to waste paper and ink. No wonder they are after Iran, because Iran refuses to trade their goods for useless paper (dollars). There are a few other countries that ware planning to dump dollars - Iraq (preferred EUR to USD) and Libya (were about to switch to golden dinar).

                  Saudis hold 600+ B, or close to a trillion useless dollars. Not sure how much Russia holds. This money is useless. There are no goods that US can provide for this money.
                  Like we said before here, TRUE! But it is true of a LOT of currency now. Even the SWISS FRANC!!!!!!!!!! UNREAL!

                  What will happen to Ukraine? EU will ban them to import cheap goods from Russia and other non-EU countries and make them spend twice as much money on EU goods, making the people even poorer than before. I can't imagine how naive people can get and think that if they join EU their salaries will magically go up to match the salaries in EU countries.
                  Well, NO country is closer to russia than russia ITSELF, so YEP, it is under that ban, with the trade agreement. They don't ACTUALLY believe their salaries would go up, do they? If they did, it would effectively lower everyone else's, and theirs would STILL mean little to them.

                  Steve
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                  • Profile picture of the author HN
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                    Well, that IS part of that trade agreement I mentioned. If the ukraine joined, it would allow estonia to buy from them again!
                    Steve
                    Do our two countries need a middleman, that decides who can buy from whom and at what price? Ukraine exports only 20% to EU and 80% to Russia. If they join they might lose the Russian market.

                    Estonia is OK, just like other EU members, it's Ukraine who has a lot to lose by joining EU. It's not a win-win situation and I am not going to lie to them to benefit from people who can't see father than their own nose. I personally don't have a dog in this fight.
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                    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                      Originally Posted by HN View Post

                      Do our two countries need a middleman, that decides who can buy from whom and at what price? Ukraine exports only 20% to EU and 80% to Russia. If they join they might lose the Russian market.

                      Estonia is OK, just like other EU members, it's Ukraine who has a lot to lose by joining EU. It's not a win-win situation and I am not going to lie to them to benefit from people who can't see father than their own nose. I personally don't have a dog in this fight.
                      Yeah, if they join, they WILL lose the russian market. The EU does that as that is one thing those organizations often do. Basically it is like a government(Ukraine) within a government(EU).

                      For YEARS, for example, the world was laughing at us because the US FORBID ANY state to send encryption of like 256(IIRC) or more bits to other countries. This put small companies in the US at a disadvantage! Other countries could sell it to US, and the bigger companies ALREADY had foreign branches that could send it abroad, but most companies in the US COULDN'T! It was considered a MUNITION(like an ARMY TANK)! TO THIS DAY, the BASE JAVA distribution comes WITHOUT that encryption!

                      And I have railed here about how tryptophan and ephedra were banned. During Apartheid, people couldn't do business with South africa.

                      So YEAH, JOIN THE CLUB!

                      Steve
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                      • Profile picture of the author HN
                        Banned
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                        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                          Originally Posted by HN View Post

                          I was watching a documentary about tryptophan just a few days ago. Never heard about it before. Funny, but it was on the Russian television. Talk about it being censored.
                          WOW, that is OLD NEWS! But tryptophan? Look at this list:

                          Histidine
                          Isoleucine
                          Leucine
                          Lysine
                          Methionine
                          Phenylalanine
                          Threonine
                          Tryptophan
                          Valine

                          Tryptophan is on this list of amino acids people NEED! Other amino acids can be derived from thee if needed and so AREN'T ESSENTIAL.

                          Another documentary was talking about US being close to developing a quantum supercomputer which would do 1 billion operations per second, compared to 300,000 that US agencies have today. It won't still be powerful enough to break my own encryption algorithm that I developed a few years ago.
                          Back then if you wanted to brute force it you'd have to try 26! permutations which is about 4--10(26) or 4 with 26 zeros. At 1 billion tries per second it would take 12 billion years to brute force. This year I upgraded it to have 100! (factorial) permutations 9.3--10(157)
                          I hate to say it, but we have faster computers now!

                          I occasionally use it to send encrypted messages to a friend. Are you saying this would be illegal in US?
                          If YOU were in the US before maybe 1992 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_..._United_States ) , and sent it to a friend in another country, with software to decrypt it(EVEN TO AUSTRALIA), it WOULD have been illegal. The US has always been ok with that tecnology going the OTHER way,

                          I intend to publish an encrypted book and offer $1 million prize to person who will be able to decrypt it. I know N. Hill said: "tell the world that you intend to do but first show it." So I am breaking some rules here. I only have a small excerpt from my code that I can show.

                          Encrypted Book

                          I bet you can't even tell in which language the original is written.
                          Yeah, I won't even try. For all I know, you could have done this with a local ukrainian dialect mixed with russian, reversed it, created a file directly translated to english, and then printed it in chinese characters with an estonian code page!

                          SERIOUSLY, I imagine it would be hard to decipher. And once you get it to english, it is backwards and likely unintelligible even after you reverse it.

                          HECK I created my own that used several keys with hashes and other values, And several standards. The idea in my case is that nobody could see the data on my system and, if they downloaded data, they would likely find they have something ***I*** couldn't even decrypt, because it would be out of context!

                          BTW Do you have a million dollars USD lying around?

                          Steve
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                          • Profile picture of the author HN
                            Banned
                            Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                            Yeah, I won't even try. For all I know, you could have done this with a local ukrainian dialect mixed with russian, reversed it, created a file directly translated to english, and then printed it in chinese characters with an estonian code page!

                            SERIOUSLY, I imagine it would be hard to decipher. And once you get it to english, it is backwards and likely unintelligible even after you reverse it.

                            HECK I created my own that used several keys with hashes and other values, And several standards. The idea in my case is that nobody could see the data on my system and, if they downloaded data, they would likely find they have something ***I*** couldn't even decrypt, because it would be out of context!

                            BTW Do you have a million dollars USD lying around?

                            Steve
                            Yeah, it's funny how I mixed up the words tryptophan and thalidomide. It's too late here, gotta go to bed. I was learning too many Lithuanian words today and got some connections messed up. Need to go to sleep and let the information sink into the long term memory. Gotta learn the language by May 25th for my Lithuanian trip. Started last week.

                            I was laughing when I read the Digital Fortress. It had never occured to Mr. Brown that it could be encrypted the way you described, so not every encryption can be broken, no matter how powerful computer. Mine is not that messed up. I even made it intentionally easier, so that a space is a space so the 6 symbols actually stand for a 6 letter word. I 'd have no problem to encrypt the spaces, so there would be no way to tell where a word ends and another begins. Also it can be actually decrypted by reverse algorithm. Only the first letter will be lost. So basically I add a dummy letter at the beginning. Each key can produce 100 different results. So when I send the exact same original text encrypted with the same key to 100 people the encrypted files will look completely different.

                            Million? I 'll start with 10,000 and will be building up the prize at moderate pace.
                            I 've got a potential millon dollar business (millionkeywords * com) which could easily compete with SEMRush or any other SEO tool. Check out how fast it is. It finds about 47 thousand keywords for "free games" in 1.4 seconds. Compared to 800 keywords that Keyword planner returns per query.
                            I just lost interest in finishing this tool. I am using the keywords myself to drive traffic to my sites, so why would I share those easy keywords with the world, right? My traffic has been going up by 40% per month.
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                            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                              Originally Posted by HN View Post

                              Yeah, it's funny how I mixed up the words tryptophan and thalidomide.
                              THALIDOMIDE is FAR worse! A good example of the DAMAGE the medical industry has done us. It was a drug apparently first created for nausea(IIRC), and they started prescribing it claiming it prevented miscarriage. Apparently it DIDN'T, but it caused HORRIBLE birth defects. Basically it interfered with growth regulation in the limbs.

                              It's too late here, gotta go to bed. I was learning too many Lithuanian words today and got some connections messed up. Need to go to sleep and let the information sink into the long term memory. Gotta learn the language by May 25th for my Lithuanian trip. Started last week.
                              Well, it's nice that you are doing that.

                              I was laughing when I read the Digital Fortress. It had never occured to Mr. Brown that it could be encrypted the way you described, so not every encryption can be broken, no matter how powerful computer.
                              Yeah, people always seem to find a way, but even the multiple substitution I mention is something that would be difficult to program,

                              Mine is not that messed up. I even made it intentionally easier, so that a space is a space so the 6 symbols actually stand for a 6 letter word. I 'd have no problem to encrypt the spaces, so there would be no way to tell where a word ends and another begins. Also it can be actually decrypted by reverse algorithm. Only the first letter will be lost. So basically I add a dummy letter at the beginning. Each key can produce 100 different results. So when I send the exact same original text encrypted with the same key to 100 people the encrypted files will look completely different.
                              That sounds like the rotation algorithm used by the enigma machine. NAZI Germany used it in WWII. The allies got together and BROKE IT! One way they broke it was they noticed patterns in some texts and assumed THEY said "Heil Hitler", since they closed the communication, and found out how to set the wheels on the simple, but still PATENTED enigma machine. IT could ALSO be set to random to change codes after transmission.

                              Million? I 'll start with 10,000 and will be building up the prize at moderate pace.
                              I 've got a potential millon dollar business (millionkeywords * com) which could easily compete with SEMRush or any other SEO tool. Check out how fast it is. It finds about 47 thousand keywords for "free games" in 1.4 seconds. Compared to 800 keywords that Keyword planner returns per query.
                              I just lost interest in finishing this tool. I am using the keywords myself to drive traffic to my sites, so why would I share those easy keywords with the world, right? My traffic has been going up by 40% per month.
                              Well, GOOD LUCK! And good luck on the Lithuanian.

                              Steve
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                              • Profile picture of the author HN
                                Banned
                                Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                                That sounds like the rotation algorithm used by the enigma machine. NAZI Germany used it in WWII. The allies got together and BROKE IT! One way they broke it was they noticed patterns in some texts and assumed THEY said "Heil Hitler", since they closed the communication, and found out how to set the wheels on the simple, but still PATENTED enigma machine. IT could ALSO be set to random to change codes after transmission.

                                Steve
                                As far as I know they couldn't break it until they were able to lay hands on one of those machines. But there are many myths, it could be one. Compared with modern algorithms, Enigma is a child's play, which is understood, because they had to use a mechanical device. I think it automatically changed the wheels (code tables) for every line or a few lines. Mine is way more complicated. I wonder how long would it take to figure out having both the original and encrypted texts. And even if the algorithm is known there are billions of billions combinations to brute force.

                                Here's how the sentence
                                MY FATHER'S FATHER IS MY GRANDFATHER
                                will be enctypted:
                                1. ME NQYHVL'F CBUWAY VH NO ZHFKRJUHWLQ
                                2. UG BAPXSC'L ZRVKDP SX BY HXLTIWVXKCA
                                3. GI YCTSBM'X UPNDZT BS YK VSXFJANSDMC
                                I can get different results each time even when I use the same key (password).

                                Well, I 've got to start a new thread for this topic.
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                                • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                                  Originally Posted by HN View Post

                                  As far as I know they couldn't break it until they were able to lay hands on one of those machines. But there are many myths, it could be one. Compared with modern algorithms, Enigma is a child's play, which is understood, because they had to use a mechanical device. I think it automatically changed the wheels (code tables) for every line or a few lines. Mine is way more complicated. I wonder how long would it take to figure out having both the original and encrypted texts. And even if the algorithm is known there are billions of billions combinations to brute force.

                                  Here's how the sentence
                                  MY FATHER'S FATHER IS MY GRANDFATHER
                                  will be enctypted:
                                  1. ME NQYHVL'F CBUWAY VH NO ZHFKRJUHWLQ
                                  2. UG BAPXSC'L ZRVKDP SX BY HXLTIWVXKCA
                                  3. GI YCTSBM'X UPNDZT BS YK VSXFJANSDMC
                                  I can get different results each time even when I use the same key (password).

                                  Well, I 've got to start a new thread for this topic.
                                  They had to start from scratch and build technology up to almost the point we had in the 1970s! The story goes that they destroyed it all. Before that, the polish built a device that could do it, albeit slower, etc... But yeah, as i understand it the hardest part to start was to find part of the enigma machine left behind. They then found what the NAZIs were using, and worked around it. The nazi soldiers kept too strict to some form which you NEVER want to do with encrypted texts. If the enemy somehow breaks the code, you want them to miss it and keep trying, if possible! Of course, with the enigma, they could use a pattern like that to find the key.

                                  After that, the only problem was the UBOATS. They, for some reason, used a different enigma setup, so the allies had to struggle to capture a sub. I think the difference was a different key, and added wheel.

                                  Steve
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                                  • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                                    Originally Posted by vpsnerds View Post

                                    This is such a shame and I hope there is not another war coming. I wish all people could have the same riches and all be happy.
                                    After we get to the brink! :rolleyes:


                                    I read about this today, with Putin sending in Russian troops and killing one!

                                    This situation seems to be going from bad to worse.


                                    Putin may back down after the EU coughs up, but he could also genuinely believe that this land is his, or Russia's, and anything barring tactical nukes will change his mind.


                                    If this continues and gets worse, then Putin may use tactical or precision nukes as a show of force, or show the rest of the world, that it will get seriously ugly if he isn't allowed to claim this piece of land as Russia's.

                                    I figured that it was only a matter of time before something like this happened; and no amount of Stargate- RV, or building a flying fortress will help!


                                    Putin seems to be acting like Suddam, going for a land grab, saying that he is allowed to have it, or his country originally did, etc.


                                    But scary thing is this time, America can't say we will just invade and get rid of him.


                                    Shane
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          I've been watching the reports - I'm surprised how quickly the violence erupted. Stay safe.
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          • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
            My heart goes out to you and your people. Sending prayers your way from the US.


            Terra
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          • Profile picture of the author maksym
            Wow... Guys, the situation in my country is changing sooooo quickly and I believe that this our victory's day!
            1. President is not active one. Parlament took vote on taking him down.
            2. Constitution is back to 2004 when it was more legitimate
            3. Police and army is now with people
            4. New president election date will be already in May 2014.

            God listen to all our prayers and He is with us!

            regards
            Maksym V
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            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
              Originally Posted by maksym View Post

              Wow... Guys, the situation in my country is changing sooooo quickly and I believe that this our victory's day!
              1. President is not active one. Parlament took vote on taking him down.
              2. Constitution is back to 2004 when it was more legitimate
              3. Police and army is now with people
              4. New president election date will be already in May 2014.

              God listen to all our prayers and He is with us!

              regards
              Maksym V
              WOW! I guess it even changed within the last 8 hours! Of course, I am likely getting the news filtered and late. The last I had heard, the president still had control, and planned to keep it a while longer. He had earlier said he planned to keep it until NEXT YEAR. At least the news WE are getting(from BOTH sides, BTW) agrees that the current outcome is on the good side.

              Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author nettiapina
              Originally Posted by maksym View Post

              Wow... Guys, the situation in my country is changing sooooo quickly and I believe that this our victory's day!
              I've been watching the news, but didn't see that coming! Hopefully it all turns to better. Well, it should as long as you don't get the another corrupted wannabe dictator as the next president.
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        • Profile picture of the author mrozlat
          Originally Posted by TheRealDudeman View Post

          I'm sorry to hear it. Don't forget about your friends in the U.S. We'll probably be getting involved very soon in more ways than one. We always do.
          The US has been involved from the start, they financed and significantly aided the so-called "revolution" through US "pro-democracy" outfits like USAID, the National Endowment for Democracy (NED), Freedom House, George Soros' Open Society Institute, and a whole constellation of public-private affiliates.
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by mrozlat View Post

            The US has been involved from the start, they financed and significantly aided the so-called "revolution" through US "pro-democracy" outfits like USAID, the National Endowment for Democracy (NED), Freedom House, George Soros' Open Society Institute, and a whole constellation of public-private affiliates.
            GS is known for DESTROYING countries AND, after telling the US all is OK, GO WITH IT, has placed a bet that the US will have a nice big collapse! He stands to make a BUNDLE if it does. He can lose over a BILLION USD if it DOESN'T.

            Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
              Putin

              Talk about getting it wrong (link above) - Putin told Kerry "no invasion - just exercises" and Kerry believed it.

              The big chatter on cable news today seemed to be from talking heads who are shocked Putin would just go ahead into Ukraine....without warning or dialogue.
              He didn't set a red line. He didn't issue a press release outlining his attack. He just packed up his soldiers and went across the border.

              This is nothing like the US/Syria issue. Ukraine and Russia share a border and a history.
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              • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
                Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                Putin

                Talk about getting it wrong (link above) - Putin told Kerry "no invasion - just exercises" and Kerry believed it.

                The big chatter on cable news today seemed to be from talking heads who are shocked Putin would just go ahead into Ukraine....without warning or dialogue.
                He didn't set a red line. He didn't issue a press release outlining his attack. He just packed up his soldiers and went across the border.

                This is nothing like the US/Syria issue. Ukraine and Russia share a border and a history.
                That's going along with my prediction/funny joke...

                "What's Putin thinking and planning? Answer: He'll let you know when he's kicking your teeth in!" That's a funny joke :p But it's also scary as hell and true.

                Prediction: Putin's next move is to further reinforce Iran and let us suck on that one for a while, go all out nuclear and belligerent, and reinforce them with more anti-air batteries.
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              • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                Putin

                Talk about getting it wrong (link above) - Putin told Kerry "no invasion - just exercises" and Kerry believed it.

                The big chatter on cable news today seemed to be from talking heads who are shocked Putin would just go ahead into Ukraine....without warning or dialogue.
                He didn't set a red line. He didn't issue a press release outlining his attack. He just packed up his soldiers and went across the border.

                This is nothing like the US/Syria issue. Ukraine and Russia share a border and a history.
                If you think Kerry was mislead on this one I have a bridge to sell to you.

                Everybody's postering for the world community etc.

                Kerry's so-called surprise at Putin's actions is an act to try to make Putin look bad - nothing more and nothing less.

                One thing it has in common with the US/Syria/Libya situation is that it was/is an intervention on sovereign soil.
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              • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                Putin

                Talk about getting it wrong (link above) - Putin told Kerry "no invasion - just exercises" and Kerry believed it.
                YKW told leaders the SAME before WWII!!!!

                Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
      Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

      I wish the best for the people of Ukraine.
      Yes, there is a long historical bond between Canada and the Ukraine. There are a lot of people from the Ukraine in Canada. My sister-in-law is Ukrainian Canadian. You can be sure that we care about what is happening to the people of the Ukraine.
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  • Profile picture of the author noangel
    My thoughts and prayers are with you Max, stay safe Partner.

    We tend to take the most basic things for granted until they are threatened.

    I want to take a moment to thank all our brave service men and women for putting
    your lives on the line to protect our freedom. Your service is greatly appreciated.

    Angela
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  • Profile picture of the author Leather Rebel
    Hello Maksym, do not understand why such bright and talanted nation were given such animals at the government not saying about police. Rare situation when police protects mafia clans.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sunnieone
    So sorry to hear this. Stay safe.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    I WISH this were unusual in the world.

    I do wish you the best.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author maksym
    Hi Warriors!
    Thanks so much for your support and prayers!
    The main reason why I am spreading news here is that we can show to the world that
    we need to stop such violence and terror not only in Ukraine, but in any country.
    I do want that my children will leave on our planet with peace and love.

    regards
    Maksym V
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by maksym View Post

      Hi Warriors!
      Thanks so much for your support and prayers!
      The main reason why I am spreading news here is that we can show to the world that
      we need to stop such violence and terror not only in Ukraine, but in any country.
      I do want that my children will leave on our planet with peace and love.

      regards
      Maksym V
      GOOD LUCK! NO OFFENSE, but your area(INCLUDES COUNTRIES AROUND YOU), and history, have spoken VOLUMES for about half a century at the very least! And yet, TO THIS DAY, there are $%^&*( all over trying to EMULATE it!!!!!!!!

      And it certainly isn't anything against you, or even any people in those areas, except the governments, etc.....

      AND, surprisingly, though ******FAR****** from the best, it is also not nearly the worst.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author taskemann
    Hope the dictator flee to Russia and that the Ukrainian people get their freedom and join EU. There are too few free countries in the world.
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  • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
    This looks like getting a lot worse before it gets better.

    When the Soviet Empire collapsed, Ukraine was heralded for its (relatively) peaceful transition. Aligning itself with Russia rather than the rest of Europe would bring back painful memories of that.

    I hope that history records this as a Revolution and not a Rebellion.

    I may not be there in person, however I am standing with the Ukranian people in spirit.
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  • Profile picture of the author maksym
    Guys, a new shocked video came just today about brutal violence from police:

    regards
    Maksym
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I'm glad you posted this. We get very little of this kind of news in the US - people are unaware. Leaders worldwide have been overstepping and oppression is becoming rampant - so are revolutions.

    Godspeed to these people. It's an atrocity that people have to go to warring to get their lives and freedoms back, but when the need is there - it's good to see people have the courage to stand for themselves.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I'm glad you posted this. We get very little of this kind of news in the US - people are unaware. Leaders worldwide have been overstepping and oppression is becoming rampant - so are revolutions.

      Godspeed to these people. It's an atrocity that people have to go to warring to get their lives and freedoms back, but when the need is there - it's good to see people have the courage to stand for themselves.
      I heard a program today quote another saying that if you want the truth in news, you should get it from ABROAD! If you look at the lead stories in Deutsche Welle(dw.de), it makes this world look like it is falling apart! The LEAD story today is about the Ukraine!

      Yanukovych holds talks with opposition in Kyiv on Ukraine unrest | News | DW.DE | 25.01.2014

      Yanukovych holds talks with opposition in Kyiv on Ukraine unrest
      The Ukrainian opposition has opened fresh talks with President Viktor Yanukovych. The president has reportedly offered the opposition leader Arseniy Yatsenyuk the position of prime minister.
      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        I heard a program today quote another saying that if you want the truth in news, you should get it from ABROAD! If you look at the lead stories in Deutsche Welle(dw.de), it makes this world look like it is falling apart! The LEAD story today is about the Ukraine!

        Yanukovych holds talks with opposition in Kyiv on Ukraine unrest | News | DW.DE | 25.01.2014

        Steve
        I do get a lot of it abroad, Steve. When the "journalist" (and I use the term lightly) is dumb enough to interrupt a US Congresswoman with a "Just in" emergency report about Justin Beiber getting popped for a DUI - I'm surprised that enough people don't just turn off the US news and watch or read overseas media (who were never given the legal right to lie) to shut down our corporate news media completely. It just disgusts me.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ross Petal
    Maksym, really sorry to hear about the troubles in your Country. It's sad to see innocent people being tortured and killed. Governments are formed to protect people. Our support is with you buddy and I hope it's sorted out immediately in a peaceful way.
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  • Profile picture of the author maricelu
    We support your country Maksym! I hope everything will calm down and Yanucovich will find a common point with the left side.
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  • Profile picture of the author maksym
    2All warriors!
    Thanks so much one more time for your support, warriors! Together we are super power!
    I really love my country and all I want is that my children will leave in peace here.

    regards
    Maksym
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  • Profile picture of the author bravo75
    At the end of the day, it's just another proxy war. Capitalism vs. Communism. Some things never go away.
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  • Profile picture of the author Caden
    I am so sorry. Sending prayers for all the people in the Ukraine.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    WOO HOO -- Great news for you Maksym

    PEOPLE POWER: The entire Ukraine government, including its prime minister, has resigned following two months of protests over anti-protest laws. Prime Minister Mykola Azarov will be temporarily replaced by his deputy until a new government is named. More details in 9 News afternoon bulletins on Channel 9. ‪#‎Ukraine‬ ‪#‎Protests‬ ‪#‎9News‬
    Congratulations -- and much admiration for the people who stood strong for their independence.

    UKRAINE --- SALUTE!
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      WOO HOO -- Great news for you Maksym



      Congratulations -- and much admiration for the people who stood strong for their independence.

      UKRAINE --- SALUTE!
      It has been going back and forth. TODAY, they apparently will get amnesty.

      Ukrainian parliament votes for protest amnesty
      Ukraine's parliament has voted to give amnesty to arrested protesters on the condition they vacate all occupied government buildings. Opposition politicians boycotted the vote, calling for amnesty without conditions.
      REMEMBER, these are "POLITICIANS" speaking! It means LITTLE! AND, to that, they say "GIVE US BACK OUR RESOURCES AS FACT, and you have our "promise" that we will forget it. ONE PROBLEM! They have redefined *****MANY***** words, and one is PROMISE!

      WHY? Think about it! LESS PROTESTING! RETURN OF RESOURCES! TIME to plan WORSE, and make sure it is less likely to happen again.

      The WORST part is that they BOTH have probably developed good stories to show how EACH side is the GOOD GUYS!

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author maksym
    Hi Warriors!
    Thanks for congratulations! And yes, we got like a first step to our victory.
    There are still pending questions like new president election, opening cases against those
    who took forces against people. We are not going to give up!

    regards
    Maksym V
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  • Profile picture of the author seomaster5
    May Almighty bless them
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  • Profile picture of the author JimDucharme
    I believe I can speak for the vast majority of Canadians when I say we support the people of Ukraine who are fighting for their rights now. Your people helped build Canada and we stand with you now.

    Regards,
    jim
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    • Profile picture of the author maksym
      Originally Posted by JimDucharme View Post

      I believe I can speak for the vast majority of Canadians when I say we support the people of Ukraine who are fighting for their rights now. Your people helped build Canada and we stand with you now.

      Regards,
      jim
      Hi Jim
      thank you a lot! I also would like to that Canada for closing vizas for government's officials. Canada did that couple days ago and that is a great example for other countries what they can do as well.

      regards
      Maksym
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      • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
        my heart goes out to your people and your country, maksym - please stay safe.
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      • Profile picture of the author JimDucharme
        Originally Posted by maksym View Post

        Hi Jim
        thank you a lot! I also would like to that Canada for closing vizas for government's officials. Canada did that couple days ago and that is a great example for other countries what they can do as well.

        regards
        Maksym
        Please contact me directly if there is something more I can do sir.

        Regards,
        jim
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  • Profile picture of the author duplication
    Is Russia any better than the middle east. Move away from these areas. They are bad for your health.
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  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    Originally Posted by duplication View Post

    Is Russia any better than the middle east. Move away from these areas. They are bad for your health.
    Russia? This is about the Ukraine.
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    • Profile picture of the author Enfusia


      I am so sorry that your people have to endure this. But in a few years we will likely be right there with you as soon as some of the things they've done take effect.
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      • Profile picture of the author maksym
        Originally Posted by Enfusia View Post



        I am so sorry that your people have to endure this. But in a few years we will likely be right there with you as soon as some of the things they've done take effect.
        Thanks for sharing this photo. This is actually father and his son. Father is one of a professor is University in Kiev.
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  • Profile picture of the author socialentry
    Ukraine is most likely going to be brought into the Russian sphere of influence once again.

    Russia is most likely willing to go to war for Ukraine. This is not the case for the EU or the US.
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    • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
      Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

      Ukraine is most likely going to be brought into the Russian sphere of influence once again.

      Russia is most likely willing to go to war for Ukraine. This is not the case for the EU or the US.
      I'll see your Russian movement. To counter that, the west will add more mercenaries, otherwise knows as rebels, otherwise known as terrorists, flown into the area to further destabilize the region. Funded and supplied by U.S. and EU.

      Next move is yours.

      In any event, this is how world politics and wars begin for real. It should make everyone sick.
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by David Maschke View Post

        I'll see your Russian movement. To counter that, the west will add more mercenaries, otherwise knows as rebels, otherwise known as terrorists, flown into the area to further destabilize the region. Funded and supplied by U.S. and EU.

        Next move is yours.

        In any event, this is how world politics and wars begin for real. It should make everyone sick.
        Not sure of that one this time. Everything they do is under scrutiny right now and I think it would hurt Russian/Canadian relations badly enough to be a very huge risk to play with it no matter what the perceived gains would be. Right now, we're setting up the Syrian and Iranian playing field, and this one will be left to Russia. This, of course, is my own humble opinion and prediction.

        I do hope the people come out ahead - we need the people to come out ahead in these wars more than ever in history, I think.
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        • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          Not sure of that one this time. Everything they do is under scrutiny right now and I think it would hurt Russian/Canadian relations badly enough to be a very huge risk to play with it no matter what the perceived gains would be. Right now, we're setting up the Syrian and Iranian playing field, and this one will be left to Russia. This, of course, is my own humble opinion and prediction.

          I do hope the people come out ahead - we need the people to come out ahead in these wars more than ever in history, I think.

          Found an interesting video that allegedly sheds some light on US involvement, as if the fall of the Ukraine government is a foregone conclusion. At the very least it shows meddling.


          As for Syria and Iran, that's one I don't like to think about. Russia would have to step in, even if they didn't want to. Putin definitely isn't a push-over or a fool.
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by David Maschke View Post

            Found an interesting video that allegedly sheds some light on US involvement, as if the fall of the Ukraine government is a foregone conclusion. At the very least it shows meddling.


            As for Syria and Iran, that's one I don't like to think about. Russia would have to step in, even if they didn't want to. Putin definitely isn't a push-over or a fool.
            Who knows!?!?!? A couple years ago I DID speak about an international conspiracy. I could find links and prove it, but it is political. I know a couple major players, but don't know who started it. And there ARE about 3 main stated goals. And you can see how it affected places in the US, EU, etc.... What they do is create unrest, protests, and economic instability, and end up causing civil war. I even stated months ago about how it seems to be going all over. I don't know why people don't ask "WHY NOW!?!?!?"! With the ukraine, WHO KNOWS who started what. The idea of protests, and occupying government/business buildings is more like the MO of the organization I mentioned earlier than it is with the standard military rebels.

            BTW a bit of investor news! A major German weapons supplier has seen an increase in sales/profit!

            Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author socialentry
        Originally Posted by David Maschke View Post

        I'll see your Russian movement. To counter that, the west will add more mercenaries, otherwise knows as rebels, otherwise known as terrorists, flown into the area to further destabilize the region. Funded and supplied by U.S. and EU.

        Next move is yours.
        Nothing.

        Western Liberals will do my dirty work for me. Russia only needs to invade the eastern portion to permanently establish a base. How did rebels work out for you in Georgia?

        When was the last time the EU stood up to putin? Oh that's right, they never did ROFLMAO.

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        • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
          [quote=socialentry;8969710]Nothing.

          Western Liberals will do my dirty work for me. Russia only needs to invade the eastern portion to permanently establish a base. How did rebels work out for you in Georgia?

          When was the last time the EU stood up to putin? Oh that's right, they never did ROFLMAO.



          Check Mate. Gotta love it
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            [quote=David Maschke;8969736]
            Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

            Nothing.

            Western Liberals will do my dirty work for me. Russia only needs to invade the eastern portion to permanently establish a base. How did rebels work out for you in Georgia?

            When was the last time the EU stood up to putin? Oh that's right, they never did ROFLMAO.



            Check Mate. Gotta love it
            Yeah, the russian government spread its garbage to some degree ALL OVER, pretty much OWNS the UN, and the G20, and got its hands in the G7(aka the G8) which the "US" wants to make the G20! It is sad really.

            Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author TechIntuit
    I really wish the best to these people but sadly it won't be over anytime soon :/
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  • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
    I'm glad when people talk about stuff like this in an analytical (sp?) perspective and a humane perspective, the humane perspective usually dominates the discussion.
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Originally Posted by maksym View Post

    Hi Warriors!
    May be you heard from news about the situation in Ukraine, but I decided
    to share here some information as well. The situation is so critical that at any moment civil war can start! I do want that ALL WARRIORS around the world should know what is going in my country!



    And here is one video (please take out children from your computer)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0zD3pOG-Tk

    regards
    Warrior Maksym V
    Is this report accurate as to the cause(s) of the conflict?

    Why Kiev Is Burning, Explained | Mother Jones
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Ukraine Facing Civil War: Lviv Declares Independence from Yanukovich Rule


    Has western Ukraine declared independence?


    Ukraine Facing Civil War: Lviv Declares Independence from Yanukovich Rule
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  • Profile picture of the author socialentry


    Great picture. We had a similar one when the Oka crisis in Canada except the insurgent's face was covered and the Canadian soldier's face was open.It is maybe a powerful commentary as to who fears who or at least the symbolism is not lost on some people.
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  • Profile picture of the author socialentry
    lol, it looks like the shields of both side were made by the same company.
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    • Profile picture of the author noangel
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Dxk...layer_embedded

      This is how police snipers are killing protestors
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

      lol, it looks like the shields of both side were made by the same company.
      Well, there could be a LOT of reasons for THAT. Still, I have gotten to be SO cynical that I don't know WHAT to believe! In that conspiracy I told you about before, the GOVERNMENT was generally the right and just side, even if it was evil. In SOME cases, like the US, they WERE both the SAME side and sort of putting on a show even if people on the lower tier may not have realized it. HERE, what I am hearing SEEMS to suggest that the rebels are the right and just side.

      But IS that true? Ironically, that is what that conspiracy really wants. They want to deceive people into working for their end, or at least not fighting against them. In SOME cases, it is a show so the government can keep power or pass an agenda. Whatever the case, people ARE hurt and may die, on either side.

      Even in a real and legitimate war, suppliers may seem the same for both sides. Between supply lines, intercepting, mislabeling shipments, etc.... the less official side may even get packages sent to the other side.

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        Looks like a deal may be signed. We'll see if this one holds.

        Ten hours after the EU added sanctions - the Ukrainian President decided to make concessions. Coincidence? I think not.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          Looks like a deal may be signed. We'll see if this one holds.

          Ten hours after the EU added sanctions - the Ukrainian President decided to make concessions. Coincidence? I think not.
          The protesters ALSO say he was forced, so they plan to CONTINUE! ALSO, things have only been MENTIONED, and the election is like a year away.

          I know **I** wouldn't trust them. Apparently, the protesters don't EITHER.

          Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
    I read earlier today that hospitals are seeing a lot of people with an eye shot out. The police or security forces are deliberately shooting them in the eyes with rubber bullets.
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  • Profile picture of the author vikingmarketer
    My country's main news channel almost exclusively covers what's going on in Ukraine at the moment.

    I know it is pretty bad right now, but it needs to get worse before it can get better.

    The people will win no doubt about that so I'm just waiting for them to win
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    So where is this NOW?

    Apparently, last friday:

    Ukraine: People went around the country destroying Lenin statues:
    In a RELATED story, in Russia, russian protestors, much like those in the ukraine, who protested PUTINS presidency, have been jailed an average of 4 years!

    The "ukrainian president" is in HIDING, and the UKRAINE put out a warrant for his arrest. People are asking other countries to be careful, as they fear that the Ukraine might be split up over this.

    Apparently, the police are STILL persecuting the public.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    WHY would they have LIVE interviews? Even in the US most, if not all, are delayed. HECK, in talk shows, the hosts almost sound like they can have entire interviews with people before the broadcast goes out. You end up hearing them publicly notify all that the previous caller lied about why they called, etc... and they never made it onto the air!

    It's nice that she did what you would hope a real protester would do though. And it is ironic that a person in a position where they should HATE a brave opponent ends up loving her. What is SHE to think though? The guy either went against his ethics for a little money, or changed his ethics all that quick over such an encounter. If I were in her place, I wouldn't trust him. I would rather be with a fellow protester.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author maksym
    2 all. Just couple minutes ago Russia's parlament voted to use military force at the south of Ukraine.
    Russian upper house approves use of military force in Ukraine - CNN.com

    We are against WAR!!!!
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by maksym View Post

      2 all. Just couple minutes ago Russia's parlament voted to use military force at the south of Ukraine.
      Russian upper house approves use of military force in Ukraine - CNN.com

      We are against WAR!!!!
      WOW, maybe I heard a bit more than you. What I have heard is:

      1. Putin(Russia) is setting up for war, with ships in the area, commandeering no less than TWO airports, and moving into crimea. He has ALSO made it clear HE wants control.
      2. Apparently, Crimea is mostly russian, but even many of THEM prefer the UKRAINIAN government.
      3. The UKRAINIAN protestors have been declared terrorists, by russia, and russia has, or soon will, effectively give a person the ability to basically say the ukraine is RUSSIAN.
      4. Obama is parroting the Ukraine, and implying the US won't stand for russia influencing this.

      Anyway, people have been predicting this for weeks and saying that putin was merely laying low for the olympics. ALL politicians, and it becomes more true as they get closer to communism, strive for machinations and deception.

      I have been saying all along that the cold war wasn't over, and I bet most believed russia wouldn't let this go TOO long. I do wish you the best though.

      BTW note to countries.... Putin wants to have control of the PLANET! If it were possible, he wants it of the galaxy. He doesn't care if it takes a millenia. And he has already started taking over perhaps every country on the planet. The former USSR is just a bit easier and, being expected, he can be more open.

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        BTW note to countries.... Putin wants to have control of the PLANET! If it were possible, he wants it of the galaxy. He doesn't care if it takes a millenia. And he has already started taking over perhaps every country on the planet. The former USSR is just a bit easier and, being expected, he can be more open.

        Steve
        Do you realize exactly how ironic a statement that is when coming from an American?
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          Do you realize exactly how ironic a statement that is when coming from an American?
          YEP! I can see how it iss ironic in a FEW ways. I wonder which way YOU mean, or if you mean ALL.

          STILL, they ironically all track back to russia even if it doesn't appear that way. I WISH I were born at a time when governments and tribes weren't involved. Granted, that would likely be a period wthout electronics or computers but SO WHAT!?!?!? I would gve it all up to live in such a place. EVEN if I had to guard the entrance, and fend for my own food against nature. I wonder if I will get to see all those negatives before my death.

          BTW YOU are awfully pessimistic today. Tough day?

          Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Musti
    What is the reason for all of this? This is much worser then what happened in Istanbul.
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    • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
      Originally Posted by Musti View Post

      What is the reason for all of this? This is much worser then what happened in Istanbul.
      Crimea belonged to Russia for centuries until it was suddenly gifted to Ukraine by Khrushchev. Russia's black sea fleet is still based there with substantial capability for military intervention. I suspect no amount of pressure will stop Putin given that he probably thinks he is on the right side of history. This is rapidly turning very sore and dangerous for Ukraine, I hope it will defuse quickly.
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      • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
        Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

        Crimea belonged to Russia for centuries until it was suddenly gifted to Ukraine by Khrushchev. Russia's black sea fleet is still based there with substantial capability for military intervention. I suspect no amount of pressure will stop Putin given that he probably thinks he is on the right side of history. This is rapidly turning very sore and dangerous for Ukraine, I hope it will defuse quickly.
        Unfortunately the U.S. is now in the same position as the Russians were when we intervened in Libya and seriously thought about bombing Syria over their use of chemical weapons.

        There will be no real response except a bunch of bitching and moaning about this being some sort of violation of international law - bla, bla, bla and of course 44's enemies will have a field day with this situation.

        Let hope the Russians don't invade Ukraine and replace the new government but that wouldn't surprise me much since no one can stop it from happening.
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        • Profile picture of the author socialentry
          Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

          Unfortunately the U.S. is now in the same position as the Russians were when we intervened in Libya and seriously thought about bombing Syria over their use of chemical weapons.

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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    I wish I could be more precise, BUT...... A site is now showing a video of Palin in 2008. Sshe made FIVE predictions about the 4 to 5 scenarios that one said the next president might have. She came up with the possible scenarios herself. I think #2 hasn't happened though. 5 did. 1 did. 3 did. And FOUR? What about FOUR? She said that Putin would likely be encouraged to go into the Ukraine! To be fair, apparently Georgia(The country in Eastern Europe) said the SAME.

    It is a pity. They had a huge campaign in the US to attract business claiming that they were so great.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    TL, Regarding the fieldday, it was asked for YEARS ago, and people merely responded!

    Obama tells Russian PM "After Election I Have More Flexibilty" 3/26/2012 - YouTube

    As for the russians invading? They HAVE invaded, I forget whether t was thursday or friday I heard of it. They were waiting for more official info, and that came. So I think that they will start moving any second, if they haven't already. HRE is what DW.de says about it:

    Russian parliament approves use of armed forces in Crimea
    Russia's parliament has approved the use of armed forces in Ukraine's Crimean peninsula. Western leaders expressed concern with the move, which President Vladimir Putin said was to protect ethnic Russians in the region.
    Ukraine Konflikt Krim 1. März 2014
    Russia's upper house of parliament, the Federation Council, unanimously approved the motion on Saturday after Putin had submitted the proposal. The chamber announced that the decision would go into effect immediately, and also recommended that Russia's ambassador to the United States be recalled over comments by President Barack Obama.
    Putin said the action, which he said he took to protect ethnic Russians and military personnel in the region, was necessary until the political situation in Ukraine stabilized. Using Russian armed forces abroad only requires approval from the Federation Council. No preliminary OK is necessary from the lower house of parliament, the Duma.
    Putin said that military involvement on the the peninsula will depend on how the situation on the ground unfolds and that no decision on sending forces to Crimea had been made.
    "We hope that the situation won't develop as it does now, that is further escalation that threatens the ethnic Russians on the Crimean peninsula," said Putin's spokesman, Dmitry Peskov.
    Appealing for assistance
    Crimea's pro-Russian Prime Minister Sergei Aksyonov had earlier asked Moscow for help in restoring calm the region, after claiming control of the military and police there. The appeal was followed by the Duma's calling on Putin to "stabilize" the crisis in Crimea using all means possible.
    On Friday armed men described as Russian soldiers took control of key airports and a communications center in Crimea. Ukraine's new pro-Western government has accused Russia of a "military invasion and occupation" in the region, which is where Moscow's Black Sea Fleet is based.
    In political speak, that doesn't sound good for the ukraine. It sounds like they want special permission to proceed in a reasonable circumstance(DONE), want that circumstance to be declared(DONE), and want to proceed(apparently in progress). The goal is to annex the UKRAINE as a part of what might become the new USSR.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      TL, Regarding the fieldday, it was asked for YEARS ago, and people merely responded!

      Obama tells Russian PM "After Election I Have More Flexibilty" 3/26/2012 - YouTube

      As for the russians invading? They HAVE invaded, I forget whether t was thursday or friday I heard of it. They were waiting for more official info, and that came. So I think that they will start moving any second, if they haven't already. HRE is what DW.de says about it:



      In political speak, that doesn't sound good for the ukraine. It sounds like they want special permission to proceed in a reasonable circumstance(DONE), want that circumstance to be declared(DONE), and want to proceed(apparently in progress). The goal is to annex the UKRAINE as a part of what might become the new USSR.

      Steve
      What could have been done to stop Russia then in Georgia and what can be done to stop Russia from re-taking the entire Ukraine now?
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

        What could have been done to stop Russia then in Georgia and what can be done to stop Russia from re-taking the entire Ukraine now?
        Well, maybe nothing would have had to have been done if it weren't encouraged, etc...

        But I can't discuss it here anyway.

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          Well, maybe nothing would have had to have been done if it weren't encouraged, etc...

          But I can't discuss it here anyway.

          Steve
          I don't see why not - unless its some crazy conspiracy stuff.

          How could those actions in the past and these Russian actions of the present been discouraged?


          The reality (that some folks in the U.S. don't want to wrap their heads around)...

          ...is that the U.S. is not omnipotent and Russia is going to do just about whatever it wants to do close to its own borders and there is nothing short of war the west can do about it - and no one is going to war or lose a whole lot of money over a former Soviet republic.

          The west can try diplomatic and even some economic actions but we're not going to go military just like the Russians were not going to go military when we intervened in Libya and were about to bomb another one of their good friends - Syria.

          The shoe is simply on the other foot now.
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

            I don't see why not - unless its some crazy conspiracy stuff.
            NOPE! No conspiracy stuff, but I don't want to discuss TOO much here. One thread locked today is ENOUGH!

            How could those actions in the past and these Russian actions of the present been discouraged?
            Encouraging causes things to happen that may never have happened otherwise. People predicted this YEARS ago!

            The reality (that some folks in the U.S. don't want to wrap their heads around)...

            ...is that the U.S. is not omnipotent and Russia is going to do just about whatever it wants to do close to its own borders and there is nothing short of war the west can do about it - and no one is going to war or lose a whole lot of money over a former Soviet republic.

            The west can try diplomatic and even some economic actions but we're not going to go military just like the Russians were not going to go military when we intervened in Libya and were about to bomb another one of their good friends - Syria.

            The shoe is simply on the other foot now.
            That is actually pretty dumb. If true, the USSR would NEVER have split up, etc... there are ALWAYS decisions that are weighed. Sometimes a MINOR change makes ALL the difference. Look at japan! If they had changed things SLIGHTLY, those bombs wouldn't have been dropped. If germany changed things slightly, the US may never have gotten the bomb ANYWAY. If germany or the US had done things a little differently, YKW wouldn't have even gained control.

            And I am NOT talking about war or even murders. With japan, avoiding pearl harbor, and a change of tempo would have done it. With Germany, not gassing people and listening more would have done it. With germany and the US, a better prison system, improving the economy, and/or locking some troublemakers up would have done it.

            Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
              Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

              NOPE! No conspiracy stuff, but I don't want to discuss TOO much here. One thread locked today is ENOUGH!



              Encouraging causes things to happen that may never have happened otherwise. People predicted this YEARS ago!



              That is actually pretty dumb. If true, the USSR would NEVER have split up, etc... there are ALWAYS decisions that are weighed. Sometimes a MINOR change makes ALL the difference. Look at japan! If they had changed things SLIGHTLY, those bombs wouldn't have been dropped. If germany changed things slightly, the US may never have gotten the bomb ANYWAY. If germany or the US had done things a little differently, YKW wouldn't have even gained control.

              And I am NOT talking about war or even murders. With japan, avoiding pearl harbor, and a change of tempo would have done it. With Germany, not gassing people and listening more would have done it. With germany and the US, a better prison system, improving the economy, and/or locking some troublemakers up would have done it.

              Steve
              Yea, its probably some super-deep nonsensical Konspiracy stuff.
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              • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                Yea, its probably some super-deep nonsensical Konspiracy stuff.
                Yeah, I knew you couldn't understand. c'est la vie!

                Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    BTW they are ALSO talking about possibly splitting the ukraine.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author socialentry


    Putin pwns obama once again
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    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by socialentry View Post



      Putin pwns obama once again
      And when were the other times you think it happened?

      I'd love to know.
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      • Profile picture of the author socialentry
        Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

        And when were the other times you think it happened?

        I'd love to know.
        Take your iphone out.
        Click on the calendar app.
        Pick a date.
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        • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
          Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

          Take your iphone out.
          Click on the calendar app.
          Pick a date.
          Nonsensical.
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          • Profile picture of the author socialentry
            Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

            Nonsensical.
            Putin disagrees.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
    We're in over our head on this one. Maybe putting a bunch of Wall Street guys, yes-men, and big-buck donor appointees in charge wasn't the best idea. These aren't peasants with small arms, these are professionals we are head to head with now.

    The Big Guy in the distorted circular office doesn't know what to do. My guess he's going to back down and say it's something Nato and Europe will have to deal with.
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    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by David Maschke View Post

      We're in over our head on this one. Maybe putting a bunch of Wall Street guys, yes-men, and big-buck donor appointees in charge wasn't the best idea. These aren't peasants with small arms, these are professionals we are head to head with now.

      The Big Guy in the distorted circular office doesn't know what to do. My guess he's going to back down and say it's something Nato and Europe will have to deal with.



      We are dealing with an equal as far as military power is concerned.

      The Big Guy in the distorted circular office is saying all the things that need to be said in a situation like this one just like Putin said all the things he felt he had to say when we intervened in Libya and punked Syria - two of Russia's best friends.

      Some people don't want to understand that in some situations even the U.S. hands are tied.

      Are we supposed to get into an serious military confrontation over this?

      If not then what?
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      • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
        Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

        Obama should just STFU. It's none of our business what happens in the Ukraine.

        He really does come off as an amateur. His actions on Syria were just plain embarrassing.
        Great acronym Ken, I do thank you for making me burst out laughing.

        He will STFU but not just yet.

        Who would expect a "pick a fight pull a gun" type of guy to understand any of the subtleties and nuances of international statecraft?

        Forgive me if I don't raise my hand.

        BTW...

        Nothing's ever anyone's business in your book except attitudes like...


        - Pick a fight pull a gun is okey dokey.

        - Businesses should be allowed to discriminate against whomever they please - even while accepting public tax breaks etc.

        - Taxes in general are evil and no gov has any right to tax anyone for any reason.

        - No govt should get in the way of businesses' relationship with customers or workers - no matter how much the customers and/or workers are being abused.

        The above are all seriously fringe positions in this society and most of the civilized world (but not around here with quite a few people)...

        ... and this is also one of those times where the minority isn't even close to being right - but do carry on.

        As far as #44 looking like an amateur and also embarrassing on the Syria situation, - even with the very positive outcome of the situation, ...

        (such as getting the planet's 3rd largest holder of chemical weapons to give them up - without firing a single shot)

        ...I'm not surprised you'd hold those opinions given your fringe attitudes that are well documented in this forum and above.


        And finally...

        There's no need for anyone to wonder what would have happened if you had been in charge during the Cuban missile crisis.
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        • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
          Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post



          You said...

          I am not surprised that your response to something that is patently none of your business (or mine) is to use force or the threat of force. All socialists are in essence bullies. If you don't agree with them they kill you or put you in a cage.


          Actually, I'm a capitalist but I don't have much of a stomach for the unfettered brand.


          ===========================================

          You said...

          Anyone who disagrees with their absurd attempts at logic is immediately labeled fringe, radical or dangerous. That of course, evolves into reason to kill them or put them into cages.


          I say...

          But Ken, you're positions are fringe. I'll offer up your no taxes positions as an example.

          Who said anything about killing anyone or putting anyone into a cage etc.?

          But I do think your philosophy needs to be contained for the good of the society - actually for the world.

          ===============================

          You said...

          I am wonderfully amused that you think Obama's silly attempt to invade Syria led to anything but his personal and our national embarrassment. Putin had to pull the idiot's chestnuts from the fire.


          I say...

          Be amused but in reality...

          All Putin did was save one of his buddy states from an pounding and also saved a little face for himself since there wasn't a damn thing he could or would have done for his buddy - had we commenced bombing Syria.

          I would have looked a lot worse for Putin if we had commenced bombing Syria.

          Putin probably told Assad...

          Tis better to give up your chemical weapons in exchange for a non-bombing verses receiving a bombing of your military infrastructure.

          If it happens, repairs are going to be mighty expensive and it might turn the tide of the war against you.

          We can't stop them from bombing you.

          You can't use them anyway without the U.S. coming down on you like a ton of bricks.

          But all is not lost because...

          We're winning the war against your rebels and nothing short of a no-fly zone will help turn the tide for them.

          At least you'll remain in power with no major damage to your military infrastructure, which I'm sure the Americans would have skillfully targeted and in all likelihood destroyed it almost completely.

          The Americans will go after everything that gives you an advantage in this war so let's offer up the chemicals instead.

          The reality on the ground whether you like it or not and no matter how you say it happened is the nation with the 3rd largest cache of chem weapons is in fact giving them up.

          http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/di...ine-achievable
          ================================

          You said...

          I don't understand where you got your pick a fight pull a gun nonsense, but I'm sure that somewhere in the deep recesses of your poorly trained mind it somehow makes a glimmer of sense.


          I say, that was your overriding philosophy regarding the TM situation.

          You were one of the very few people around here saying its all fine and dandy to...

          1: Stalk someone. (whom you had no prior knowledge of, or beef with)

          2: Get into a confrontation with them.

          3: Pull out a gun and shoot them dead.

          4: Claim "Stand Your Ground" as your defense.


          Pick a fight pull a gun


          When some folks said stuff like why did Z get out of his car when he was told not to, or he shouldn't have gotten out of his car, your reply was stuff like "he has the right to walk anywhere he wants bla, bla bla.

          That's why I feel very justified labeling you as a "pick a fight pull a gun" type of guy.

          Get it now?
          ====================

          You said...

          I understand that you have a deep-seated need to tell others what to do, but I'm damned if I understand why. Is it, perhaps, the result of a childhood trauma?

          Please share.

          I say...

          This is a public forum and people voice their opinions all the time. You haven't been all that shy yourself have you?


          ======================

          You said...

          Oh, and comparing the Cuban Missile Crisis to the current situation in Crimea is an excellent example of the conflated blather you try to pass off as cogent thought.


          I say...


          I didn't compare the CMS to the Crimea.

          I was just alluding that if you had been in charge of the U.S. at the time of the CMC - we wouldn't be here now.

          Have a nice day -


          Likewise.

          This added to get the post to submit............................................ ...
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  • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
    The U.S.'s hands are not tied. They are frozen with paralysis from fear. Russia is done with toppled governments and western expansion. Russia is recalling their ambassador, and will start expanding their military into the western hemisphere.
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    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by David Maschke View Post

      The U.S.'s hands are not tied.

      They are frozen with paralysis from fear. Russia is done with toppled governments and western expansion.

      Russia is recalling their ambassador, and will start expanding their military into the western hemisphere.


      Exactly what are you proposing we do about what Russia is doing in Ukraine?

      I'd love to know.
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      • Profile picture of the author socialentry
        Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

        Exactly what are you proposing we do about what Russia is doing in Ukraine?

        I'd love to know.
        Nothing. Putin has played his cards so well that Obama cannot do anything.

        The best thing to do for Obama is simply to roll up in a ball under his desk and pray for mercy.

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      • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
        Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

        Exactly what are you proposing we do about what Russia is doing in Ukraine?

        I'd love to know.
        I'm not suggesting anything. I'm just observing, with an interest in strategy and game theory. Endgame: Everyone has taken sides. Iran being the powder keg. At that point Israel will hold all the cards.

        It's now a sequential game. Players take turns moving.

        Eventually it will be a simultaneous game, where the players move at the same time, and the situation becomes more fluid and dynamic. That's when amateurs like myself will be unable to predict what will happen next.

        Eventually, oil will become such a hot commodity, that many nations will be willing to pay with gold and other hard assets. The petrodollar will fall, and we will lose the ability to print fiat currency to buy real goods.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Braybrooke
    Prayers for you and your country Maksym. Stay strong.

    I was heartened to read this UN Security Council meets to discuss Ukraine | Fox News
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  • Profile picture of the author mathe
    Move away from this area It will be better
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  • Profile picture of the author Sarevok
    "May one day all wars be fought on the chess board."-Senor Rossini
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Here's an interesting angle on the situation...

    Russia's Gas Can Blow Up Ukraine Tomorrow
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    A quick look at historic American responses to Russian actions since WW2...

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/02/su...ning.html?_r=0
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      A quick look at historic American responses to Russian actions since WW2...

      http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/02/su...ning.html?_r=0
      You are asking about how to get the cows into the barn, and I am saying we may not have had the problem if we kept the door locked. YESTERDAY, sites showed how palin predicted this in 2008. TODAY, they show how romney predicted it in 2012. I REMEMBER this talk from then! Obama LAUGHED at him saying "The 1980's want their foreign policy back! The cold war has been over for 20 years!". Romney called Russia a "Geo political foe"! He was right now, then, and to any period back to at least WWII!

      As for the idea of cold war? I always thought it was a MILITARY term. It would then be taken to mean it is a WAR(Planned hostilities or preparations. It could be major propaganda, supporting enemies, etc... or a full out attack) that is COLD(Weapons aren't used). Wikipedia says, in part.... "It was "cold" because there was no large-scale fighting directly between the two sides, although there were major regional wars in Korea and Vietnam. "

      Regardless of the meaning, there HAVE been wars going on that HAVE been financed by the russians, and they DO have a big impact. Some NEVER trusted the russian government!

      NOW, as to any full on punishment the US can bring, that is obviously limited. The US is like that proverbial frog in the pot. We have waited too long, etc... and there is little we can do that will be a net positive. I think EVERYONE knows that. Then again, trying to find cows that may be DOZENS of miles away, and may now be on OTHER farms, etc... is ALSO difficult. But a little latch would have been SO simple. And if that little kid(Let's call him Billy O'malley!) didn't go into the barn and kick the cows out of it, maybe they STILL would have stayed there!

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        You are asking about how to get the cows into the barn, and I am saying we may not have had the problem if we kept the door locked. YESTERDAY, sites showed how palin predicted this in 2008. TODAY, they show how romney predicted it in 2012. I REMEMBER this talk from then! Obama LAUGHED at him saying "The 1980's want their foreign policy back! The cold war has been over for 20 years!". Romney called Russia a "Geo political foe"! He was right now, then, and to any period back to at least WWII!

        As for the idea of cold war? I always thought it was a MILITARY term. It would then be taken to mean it is a WAR(Planned hostilities or preparations. It could be major propaganda, supporting enemies, etc... or a full out attack) that is COLD(Weapons aren't used). Wikipedia says, in part.... "It was "cold" because there was no large-scale fighting directly between the two sides, although there were major regional wars in Korea and Vietnam. "

        Regardless of the meaning, there HAVE been wars going on that HAVE been financed by the russians, and they DO have a big impact. Some NEVER trusted the russian government!

        NOW, as to any full on punishment the US can bring, that is obviously limited. The US is like that proverbial frog in the pot. We have waited too long, etc... and there is little we can do that will be a net positive. I think EVERYONE knows that. Then again, trying to find cows that may be DOZENS of miles away, and may now be on OTHER farms, etc... is ALSO difficult. But a little latch would have been SO simple. And if that little kid(Let's call him Billy O'malley!) didn't go into the barn and kick the cows out of it, maybe they STILL would have stayed there!

        Steve
        Big deal that Palin predicted that we might have some future problems with Russia. The same goes for Mitt.

        I could have predicted this myself.


        How?

        There had just been a recent problem with the Russia/Georgia conflict in 2008 and if any of the other countries of the former Soviet orbit deemed to break away from Russia and seriously turn towards the west - like joining NATO etc., - there was/is going to be a problem.

        So how is that a major prediction?

        Short of stopping the Russian revolution back in 1917 or not helping them defeat Hitler or dropping atomic bombs on them when we had the atomic bomb advantage on them for about 5 years in the late 1940s or sneak attacking them during the Cuban missile crisis or any other time...

        ... there was/is nothing we could have done to prevent Russia from becoming what they are today.

        I guess...

        We could have also militarily outspent them decades earlier and helped hasten the demise of the Soviet Union earlier, but that still would not have prevented them from dominating the former republics close to their borders and doing for example what they're doing right now with the U.S and western Europe not being able to really do much of anything about it.

        Let it go about the cow out the barn stuff because it doesn't reflect any historic reality and overstates the U.S.'s historic ability to shape events.


        And that's my final word on that particular subject.


        Historic tidbit...

        During the civil war it is rumored that England was threatening to come into the war on the side of the south and then Russia offered to come into the war on the side of the north.

        When the Russian navy sailed into New York | Russia Beyond The Headlines
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

          Big deal that Palin predicted that we might have some future problems with Russia. The same goes for Mitt.

          I could have predicted this myself.


          How?

          There had just been a recent problem with the Russia/Georgia conflict in 2008 and if any of the other countries of the former Soviet orbit deemed to break away from Russia and seriously turn towards the west - like joining NATO etc., - there was/is going to be a problem.

          So how is that a major prediction?
          I never claimed it WAS a major prediction. OBAMA did! HE said in 2012 that it was foolish to consider it a possibility. He actually LAUGHED AT, and MADE JOKES AT, the prediction!

          Short of stopping the Russian revolution back in 1917 or not helping them defeat Hitler or dropping atomic bombs on them when we had the atomic bomb advantage on them for about 5 years in the late 1940s or sneak attacking them during the Cuban missile crisis or any other time...

          ... there was/is nothing we could have done to prevent Russia from becoming what they are today.
          Actually, there was a LOT we could have done! we could have stopped them from getting the atomic bomb, or stopped all the conversions. We could have kept them out of germany, etc....

          BTW attaking them during the cuban missle crises would have been IDIOTIC! The whole idea of Cuba even thinking that atomic weapons aimed at the US was a good idea was IDIOTIC! Cuba could have EASILY been blown off the map, maybe even visibly so, but CERTAINLY as a nation. Even if it weren't, the fallout potential was high enough that one wonders how russia even got them to support it!

          quote]We could have also militarily outspent them decades earlier and helped hasten the demise of the Soviet Union earlier, but that still would not have prevented them from dominating the former republics close to their borders and doing for example what they're doing right now with the U.S and western Europe not being able to really do much of anything about it.[quote]

          The idea of spending money just for the sake of doing so is ALSO idiotic. We have ENOUGH bombs. and the idea is to have only enough to make it clear nobody should use them.

          Let it go about the cow out the barn stuff because it doesn't reflect any historic reality and overstates the U.S.'s historic ability to shape events.
          Hit too close to home? The cow is ALWAYS a good analogy. GRANTED, I could have talked about bees from a hive, or some other thing where the speed and volume is closer to what I am talking about, but bees often want to stay with the queen, etc.... The cow analogy is good enough.


          During the civil war it is rumored that England was threatening to come into the war on the side of the south and then Russia offered to come into the war on the side of the north.
          SO WHAT!?!?!?!?

          The russia WE have been talking about didn't exist until at least 1917! In fact, it is interesting. I have often said that NAZI germany started due to the depression that hit the world around the 1920s. It hit Germany to such a degree that it has often been used to illustrate this, and it hit between 1921 and 1924, according to wikipedia. YKW started to get BIG support in 1924. That was a YEAR after he wrote that book in prison. He became the leader of the party recognized as the FIRST incarnation of that infamous party, according to wikipedia, in 1921! Well, The russia WE have been talking about was built on the rubble of the russia YOU are talking about here that collapsed in 1917, from the SAME conditions!

          Word to the wise! That cycle is REPEATING ITSELF! They said "NEVER FORGET". GUESS WHAT! THEY FORGOT!

          Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author garyv
          Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

          Big deal that Palin predicted that we might have some future problems with Russia. The same goes for Mitt.

          I could have predicted this myself.

          You wouldn't have predicted it by reading the liberal websites you're always posting here - because they all made fun of her. In fact where do you think the falsified quote "I can see Russia from my house" came from? It didn't actually come from Palin - but from liberal writers attempting to make fun of her first major interview where she gave the insight she had gained living so close to Russia. - You know the interview where she actually predicted this would happen?

          In fact most from your side from the top down predicted wrong...

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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            It's so easy to predict things after the fact.

            It's sad when you are so vested in being right that you can't give any credit to any person or idea that didn't come from your partisan viewpoint.

            It's a fault of both extremes - right and left. Facts are important to those groups only if they can be bent to fit into the core belief system. It's a sorry state of affairs.
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            • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

              It's so easy to predict things after the fact.

              It's sad when you are so vested in being right that you can't give any credit to any person or idea that didn't come from your partisan viewpoint.

              It's a fault of both extremes - right and left. Facts are important to those groups only if they can be bent to fit into the core belief system. It's a sorry state of affairs.
              Who exactly are you referring to? The people who DO KNOW who Kerry is going to visit, and WHERE the money is going to come from? Knowing is a sad state of affairs in your opinion?

              Many of us have made predictions within this thread, which still have to come to pass, or proven wrong.
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          • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
            Originally Posted by garyv View Post

            You wouldn't have predicted it by reading the liberal websites you're always posting here - because they all made fun of her. In fact where do you think the falsified quote "I can see Russia from my house" came from?

            It didn't actually come from Palin - but from liberal writers attempting to make fun of her first major interview where she gave the insight she had gained living so close to Russia. - You know the interview where she actually predicted this would happen?

            In fact most from your side from the top down predicted wrong...

            Obama Ridicules Romney Calling Russia a Geo-Polical Foe - YouTube
            Predicted wrong about what?

            Who said we wouldn't have any probs in the future with Russia?

            Insight??

            If someone would have asked anyone paying attention to history and geopolitics back in 2008 if we would have any probs with Russia in the future, why would it be insightful to come to the conclusion that we'd have some probs with them from time to time - especially since there was just a conflict in Georgia?

            Predicting future probs with Russia would be as easy as...

            - Predicting a few dust ups in a major league baseball season.

            Is that the same interview in which she couldn't name a single national publication that she was regularly reading and then called it a gotcha question?


            IMHO...

            It is an act of supreme desperation to try to make some sort of sage out of that birdbrained woman but I do give her credit as she was smart enough to cash in on the desperate people that want to anoint her as something more than she is.

            BTW...

            All the main people around her during the campaign have publicly said she was/is a birdbrain.


            BTW...

            Mitt had said way before that debate in the video that Russia was our #1 geopolitical foe but then he...

            ... tempered that remark in that particular debate footage by saying they're a "geopolitical foe" and Iran was our #1 concern.

            It was/is clear public knowledge that he said Russia was our #1.

            Why'd he try to backtrack?

            Mitt Romney: Russia is America's 'number one geopolitical foe' - Telegraph

            Do check out the exchange early in the video and see him modify his position from #1 geopolitical foe to simply a geopolitical foe.

            He says "excuse me" and then lies or forgot what he said in the past then further tries to cover his tracks with some bla, bla, bla tough talk about Putin and Russia and his comments about #44's comments about having more flexibility after the election to the Russian PM.
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            • Profile picture of the author garyv
              Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

              Predicted wrong about what?

              Who said we wouldn't have any probs in the future with Russia?

              Insight??
              Did you even watch that video? Obama said "the 80s called and want their foreign policy back". Now I'm no expert in the art of Sarcasm - but I'm pretty sure that was his sarcastic way of saying that we would have no problems with Russia.



              Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

              ... tempered that remark in that particular debate footage by saying they're a "geopolitical foe" and Iran was our #1 concern.

              It was/is clear public knowledge that he said Russia was our #1.

              Why'd he try to backtrack?
              Actually if you paid close enough attention, he said Russia was our greatest "geopolitical foe" - and Iran was our greatest "National security threat". There's a difference, and he actually explained it - you can read it in the telegraph article you posted. -
              Romney said: "The greatest threat the US faces is a nuclear Iran ... [But] who is it who always stands up for the world's worst actors? It's always Russia, typically with China alongside.".


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              • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                I'm not convinced the current situation is what Putin had in mind but right now it is what it is. What we don't know is how far Russia will go.

                Our own attempts at resisting Russia's efforts are pathetic - and that's being generous.

                We will NOT send a "presidential delegation" (i.e., a group of people chosen by the administration) to the Paralympic Games in Russia this month.

                We encourage our disabled athletes to participate - but we won't send a group to support them. So - we don't care enough to boycott the games - but....

                We'll kick out or recall a diplomat or two - that'll show 'em.

                What concerns me today is the announcement that John Kerry will be back in Ukraine to offer "aid packages". Who are we supporting? And where is this money coming from?
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                • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                  Why are you concerned on one hand and at the same time mocking other smaller moves saying we aren't doing enough? Of course we are supporting the new Kiev pro EU government.
                  Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                  What concerns me today is the announcement that John Kerry will be back in Ukraine to offer "aid packages". Who are we supporting?
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                  • Profile picture of the author socialentry
                    The Americans in this thread are very seriously deluded. Because of this delusion, I am worried for world peace.

                    Perhaps the Americans will think they have too much firepower because Obama is too tough personality, and refuse to make overtures toward other world powers.

                    It is perhaps time for the world to move past pro-american, and start being pro-russian or pro-Chinese. .

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                    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                      Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

                      The Americans in this thread are very seriously deluded. Because of this delusion, I am worried for world peace.

                      Perhaps the Americans will think they have too much firepower because Obama is too tough personality, and refuse to make overtures toward other world powers.

                      It is perhaps time for the world to move past pro-american, and start being pro-russian or pro-Chinese. .

                      That's pretty stupid reasoning! SO, following YOUR reasoning, if a country A fights country B, and country B is losing, they should disable all their guns, get all their wealth and supplies, deliver them to country A, say "PLEASE, TORTURE US AS LONG AS YOU WANT!", and cut off and bandage their arms and legs! and tell country A they are ready and Country A can just walk in and do anything they want!

                      NEWS for you! If the US thought things were THAT dire, OUT OF SPITE, they might obliterate China and Russia! Don't think for a second it couldn't be done. Oh SURE, the US wouldn't win, but we would rather see all the bad guys lose everything than to see only them go on another day. If you have NOTHING to save, why spare ANYTHING?

                      But even russia and china and NK aren't so dumb as to push things THAT far. And the US, UK, ETC...., know that we can't take military action against them. The NK option might be taken here, with the former Ukrainian leader heading up crimea, and the current one heading up the UKRAINE with an area neither side is to cross.

                      Steve
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                      • Profile picture of the author socialentry
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                        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
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                          • Profile picture of the author socialentry
                            Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                            SERIOUSLY! HOW OLD ARE YOU? You ever see an atomic bomb? Well, there was this one country. They heard of a minor invasion of airspace. NOTHING. They called it off.
                            They had another small incursion. NOTHING. They then noticed they couldn't reach an area. They FLEW there and were horrified to see the city obliterated. A few days later, they had less warning and the sae thing happened. The war ended. TODAY, they could get rud of the whole country and all armies in it in a few hours. GRANTED china coud do the same. Like I said, NO WINNER! So WHO cares about the size of the army? Besides, do you think they can just ship that many over here? GOOD LUCK! ITS BEEN TRIED! And it is HARDER now!

                            Funny thing about the US. I haven't seen the types of displays they have in china and NK.

                            Steve
                            "Even if the US nuke China, China will win. Because there will be still at least 100 millions Chinese standing while there will be zero americans standing" -Mao Zedong

                            "People's warfare is superior to Nuclear Warfare "- General Giap

                            Atomic weapons == Overrated

                            If there is a war between China and the USA, China will send spies to the mainland and US and try to foment dissent like Vietnam did in the Vietnam war.Now Obama (a puppet of the lumpenproletariat)'s ratings are half that of Vladimir Putin (a true stateman).

                            Imagine if there were Chinese spies on US territory how fast dissent would go.

                            In addition to spies fomenting dissent amongst US intellectuals, China also has nuclear weapons:

                            Chinese Nuclear Testing Film (1966) Translated - YouTube
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                            • Profile picture of the author socialentry
                              Someone is reporting my posts and they keep getting deleted.
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                              • Profile picture of the author yukon
                                Banned
                                Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

                                Someone is reporting my posts and they keep getting deleted.
                                They missed one.
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                                • Profile picture of the author socialentry
                                  Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                                  They missed one.
                                  There is the culprit.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author yukon
                                    Banned
                                    Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

                                    There is the culprit.
                                    Lol, I was only playing around with my comment above. I've never reported you for anything.
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                                    • Profile picture of the author socialentry
                                      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                                      Lol, I was only playing around with my comment above. I've never reported you for anything.
                                      I know.

                                      I seriously wonder who it is though. It's like playing a game of clue. Someone seriously dislikes the DPRK on this forum.:confused:
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                                      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                                        I seriously wonder who it is though.
                                        There's a line.

                                        You've pushed quite a few people to the point of severe annoyance, including some who I don't think have ever reported anyone for posts in this section before. Not even spammers.
                                        It's like playing a game of clue.
                                        You want to play Clue? Keep bringing the DPRK into threads where it's not the main topic, or posting images that look like they might possibly be propaganda if the text was translated into English, and the answer will be "Paul, in the lounge, with the ban hammer."


                                        Paul
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                              • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                                Someone is reporting my posts and they keep getting deleted.
                                Yours aren't the only ones. Perhaps you should read the rules post at the top of this section?

                                I haven't been paying much attention to this thread, since there weren't many reports before yesterday. I would prefer not to have to keep coming in here and seeing partisan or nationalistic abuses, or people calling other people 'delusional' and the like.


                                Paul
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                                • Profile picture of the author David Braybrooke
                                  Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                                  Yours aren't the only ones. Perhaps you should read the rules post at the top of this section?

                                  I haven't been paying much attention to this thread, since there weren't many reports before yesterday. I would prefer not to have to keep coming in here and seeing partisan or nationalistic abuses, or people calling other people 'delusional' and the like.


                                  Paul
                                  Yeah people, we don't want to start WW3 with our incendiary comments on the Warrior Forum. The world is fraught with problems as it is! ☮ Peace out. ☮
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                                • Profile picture of the author socialentry
                                  Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                                  Yours aren't the only ones. Perhaps you should read the rules post at the top of this section?

                                  I haven't been paying much attention to this thread, since there weren't many reports before yesterday. I would prefer not to have to keep coming in here and seeing partisan or nationalistic abuses, or people calling other people 'delusional' and the like.


                                  Paul
                                  I can't believe someone took offense to me posting a poster of three DPRK citizens looking happy. Perhaps that particular person had a dislike for engineers??? :confused:
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                                  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                                    spcialentry,
                                    I can't believe someone took offense to me posting a poster of three DPRK citizens looking happy. Perhaps that particular person had a dislike for engineers???
                                    I must have missed that one. I was referring to other posts which I saw (and deleted) which were clearly political. And plain text.

                                    David,
                                    Yeah people, we don't want to start WW3 with our incendiary comments on the Warrior Forum.
                                    [sigh] Have you been told today, David?


                                    Paul
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                                  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
                                    Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

                                    I can't believe someone took offense to me posting a poster of three DPRK citizens looking happy. Perhaps that particular person had a dislike for engineers??? :confused:
                                    I don't know about that image, but some of the stuff you post has non-English writing on them. If they don't allow comments in non-English languages, they probably won't allow graphics with non-English comments either. It's an English-only forum.
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                                    Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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                                • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                                  That was just a friendly jab at Gary. We were having a pretty interesting and civil conversation I think.
                                  Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                                  or people calling other people 'delusional' ...
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                                  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                    In the last few hours -

                                    Crimean parliament has asked to become part of Russia.

                                    Crimean MPs vote to become part of Russia | euronews, world news

                                    UK announces it will not participate in sanctions

                                    Fascinating how fast this is moving.
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                                    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                      In the last few hours -

                                      Crimean parliament has asked to become part of Russia.

                                      Crimean MPs vote to become part of Russia | euronews, world news

                                      UK announces it will not participate in sanctions


                                      Fascinating how fast this is moving.
                                      Russia has a lot of financial interests in the UK
                                      Germany isn't to keen on sanctions either, they get a lot of oil from Russia. In fact what Russia is doing in Crimea has as much to do with oil as it does anything else.
                                      Good thing other countries don't start any wars or conflicts over oil or this world would be in a terrible state:rolleyes:
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                            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                              Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

                              "Even if the US nuke China, China will win. Because there will be still at least 100 millions Chinese standing while there will be zero americans standing" -Mao Zedong

                              "People's warfare is superior to Nuclear Warfare "- General Giap

                              Atomic weapons == Overrated

                              If there is a war between China and the USA, China will send spies to the mainland and US and try to foment dissent like Vietnam did in the Vietnam war.Now Obama (a puppet of the lumpenproletariat)'s ratings are half that of Vladimir Putin (a true stateman).

                              Imagine if there were Chinese spies on US territory how fast dissent would go.

                              In addition to spies fomenting dissent amongst US intellectuals, China also has nuclear weapons:

                              Chinese Nuclear Testing Film (1966) Translated - YouTube
                              Think what you want. One of the most interesting, albeit still a bit on the scifi side, fairly true to life movies was wargames. Maybe YOU should watch it. The computer ends up trying to win virtually and decides it CAN'T, and I don't even think IT added in the radioactive element. WOW, with how powerful they think they are, and their desire to do all this..... If they don't think there is that much threat, I'm surprised they didn't try to blow up europe the us, etc.....

                              They WOULD have gotten a nasty surprise if they had though. I mean japan pulled a sucker punch to try to wipe out any naval presence of the US, and look were it got them. AGAIN, it is harder now.

                              Steve
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                    • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
                      Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

                      Perhaps the Americans will think they have too much firepower
                      Too much firepower? I should say we do.

                      People don't go to parks anymore for picnics, we go to the park to have some fun with firearms. Here's a video of the last visit to the park I went to...


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                      • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                        We don't agree on everything but I love that response!

                        Originally Posted by David Maschke View Post

                        Too much firepower? I should say we do.

                        People don't go to parks anymore for picnics, we go to the park to have some fun with firearms. Here's a video of the last visit to the park I went to...


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                        • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                          Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                          We don't agree on everything but I love that response!
                          Say Tim, this is interesting...

                          Here's What Is Going to Happen With Ukraine | Mother Jones
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                          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                            The people who DO KNOW who Kerry is going to visit, and WHERE the money is going to come from? Knowing is a sad state of affairs in your opinion?
                            My comment was related to the comment just before it and nothing at all to do with John Kerry. It was referring to Palin - not to Kerry.


                            TL - #7 on the Mother Jones article could stand alone and be done with it. That's the story in a nutshell.
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                          • Profile picture of the author garyv
                            Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                            That article is shortsighted in it's history. It's written as if the out-come must be uncertain, failing to remember that it was the showing of a firm backbone that ended the cold-war in the first place. - It doesn't necessarily take force, but someone with enough fortitude to go over there and give a firm speech in their house. Like when Reagan stood at the wall and told Gorbachev to tear it down.

                            The world can't afford to return to a time when a nation just takes what it wants without repercussion. Our entire Western system relies on the assumption that we will come to each other aid in crises - if not, America loses credibility and so do her alliances.

                            Our mistake was letting it get this far in the first place. If this action was "so predictable" then why didn't we use the Olympics to verbally bludgeon and embarrass Vladamir Putin? Instead those in charge of telecasting basically sang Russia's praises.

                            No - our admin is either not so bright, or they are complicit. If you say that the admin could have easily predicted the current situation - then you are admitting that they are complicit. Nothing else would explain this...

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                            • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                              Originally Posted by garyv View Post

                              That article is shortsighted in it's history. It's written as if the out-come must be uncertain, failing to remember that it was the showing of a firm backbone that ended the cold-war in the first place. - It doesn't necessarily take force, but someone with enough fortitude to go over there and give a firm speech in their house. Like when Reagan stood at the wall and told Gorbachev to tear it down.

                              The world can't afford to return to a time when a nation just takes what it wants without repercussion. Our entire Western system relies on the assumption that we will come to each other aid in crises - if not, America loses credibility and so do her alliances.

                              Our mistake was letting it get this far in the first place. If this action was "so predictable" then why didn't we use the Olympics to bludgeon and embarrass Vladamir Putin? Instead those in charge of telecasting basically sang Russia's praises.

                              No - our admin is either not so bright, or they are complicit. If you say that the admin could have easily predicted the current situation - then you are admitting that they are complicit. Nothing else would explain this...

                              Obama open mic slip: 'After my election I have more flexibility' - YouTube
                              I say anyone paying attention could have predicted we'd have a some issues with the Russkies sooner or later.

                              Complicit? That's a stretch.

                              Anyways...

                              I've been round and round with Seasoned who had this same argument as yourself.

                              Some folks don't want to accept American limitations in foreign affairs and would rather come up with fantasies about what we could have done etc.

                              You can see post # 84 on page #2 of this thread if you like for my response where Kay, ThomM and Midnight Oil thanked me.

                              Here's a quick look at some Russian international moves and our responses to them since the end of WW2 to help you get more prospective on the situation.

                              http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/02/su...ning.html?_r=1


                              All The Best!!


                              TL
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                              • Profile picture of the author garyv
                                Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                                Some folks don't want to accept American limitations in foreign affairs and would rather come up with fantasies about what we could have done etc.


                                All The Best!!


                                TL
                                Not really fantasy when you know history - it tends to repeat itself.
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                              • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                                Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                                I've been round and round with Seasoned who had this same argument as yourself
                                NO YOU HAVEN'T!!!!!!!!

                                There is a young girl on the ground DYING! I say YOU are responsible! You say "HOW COULD I FIX THE PROBLEM!?!?!?!? I'm no brain surgeon, and could any brain surgeon fix the problem?"

                                I say "But YOU hit her with that crescent wrench, IN THE HEAD!"

                                You say "But I couldn't have seen that coming!"!

                                I say "YEAH RIGHT!(SARC) And WHY did you do it!?!?!?".

                                It really isn't any different! HERE they set things in motion. Can we stop it? Not really! Can we NUDGE? MAYBE! Could we have prevented this? CERTAINLY!

                                Did we know it would happen? I figured it would happen the moment I saw them split up! It isn't REALLY much different from the AT&T breakup, or the microsoft breakup! YEP, read your history books! There are supposed to be THREE microsofts.(It was what ended the government suit against them as a monopoly) But did they ever REALLY breakup?

                                United States v. Microsoft Corp. - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

                                On June 7, 2000, the court ordered a breakup of Microsoft as its "remedy". According to that judgment, Microsoft would have to be broken into two separate units, one to produce the operating system, and one to produce other software components.[14][15]
                                I DID hear they were going to have one for language also. Speaking of language, SUN sued them. I knew what M/S was planning THERE ALSO. THEY want to control the world, and SUN said "NOT WITH OUR LANGUAGE!!!!!!!"!

                                Steve
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                            • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                              Ah. I see. It's so simple. Obama just needs to go to Kiev and say "Mr Putin, get your troops out of Ukraine". Someone should go tell him this great strategy.

                              Originally Posted by garyv View Post

                              It doesn't necessarily take force, but someone with enough fortitude to go over there and give a firm speech in their house. Like when Reagan stood at the wall and told Gorbachev to tear it down.
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                              • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                                Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                                Ah. I see. It's so simple. Obama just needs to go to Kiev and say "Mr Putin, get your troops out of Ukraine". Someone should go tell him this great strategy.
                                Maybe it wouldn't have happened if he didn't earlier say TELL THEM I SUPPORT YOU AND WILL DO MORE LATER TO HELP!

                                You have a funny way of looking at things. If I got drunk, drove a car down a road, ran a stop sign and killed someone, you would say people should HANG HIM, do this and that because I did EVERYTHING wrong! A friend of yours does the SAME thing and you say "What do yo expect them to do? There is NOTHING they can do! RELAX! EVERYTHING IS FINE! So a person dies, BIG DEAL!"!

                                Odd that with ME, it would start from the FIRST event! With HIM, it is the LAST! FACE IT! From a moral and constitutional standpoint, he did everything WRONG FROM THE BEGINNING! MAN, it is supposed to be like COUNTRY, ALLIES, INTERNATIONAL LAW, etc.... And he and his friends are supposed to be like the LAST things on the list!

                                BTW, I doubt he even asked putin to remove his troops.

                                Steve
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                              • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                                Ah. I see. It's so simple. Obama just needs to go to Kiev and say "Mr Putin, get your troops out of Ukraine". Someone should go tell him this great strategy.
                                I think Kerry did that this morning. He also told the Ukraine we're giving them 1 Billion in aide, TO START WITH.
                                So we can't afford to give our vets the benefits they deserve, but we can give ANOTHER country a billion+:rolleyes:
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                                  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                                    As I just said money isn't really going to help your situation now. I don't know why the ukrainians wanted their jobs back. They are less able to do the job than the russians, because the russians want to control that for RUSSIANS! That means russian laws, priorities, and probably in RUSSIAN. ALSO, it means CONFLICTS, which means you need guns, and they will want to make sure ukrainians don't have them. I know you guys probably studied russian a lot, but many say it is a myth that such societies speak the language as well as the natives.

                                    Yeah they should probably wait until the base is ukrainian again, if it ever is. Otherwise, look for new job in the rest of the ukraine, or a new career.

                                    That is just the way wars are. Russia has basically declared it RUSSIA. They apparently want to declare ALL of the ukraine russia, but it is harder elsewhere since most people there consider themselves ukrainian.

                                    I do wish you the best, but getting money from what the people selling would consider an enemy, or working for the enemy against your people, isn't the thing to do.

                                    Steve
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                                • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                                  Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                  I think Kerry did that this morning. He also told the Ukraine we're giving them 1 Billion in aide, TO START WITH.
                                  So we can't afford to give our vets the benefits they deserve, but we can give ANOTHER country a billion+:rolleyes:
                                  Yeah, MONEY wouldn't help them now anyway. It WILL hurt the US though! But HEY, he figures this looks good, and THAT is the problem. THAT is the WORST part about politics. Doing things to make someone look good that only HURTS their country. It isn't even THEIR money to give!

                                  Steve
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                                • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                                  Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                  I think Kerry did that this morning. He also told the Ukraine we're giving them 1 Billion in aide, TO START WITH.
                                  So we can't afford to give our vets the benefits they deserve, but we can give ANOTHER country a billion+:rolleyes:
                                  And some people ought to be better informed on exactly who's in favor of not giving vets the benefits they deserve.

                                  Some are a whole lot better/worse than others.

                                  Cause with some folks, its the soldiers this the troops that, but when you see their national budget proposals they always end up cutting the benefits for the vets.

                                  Blanket anti-govt condemnations seem to get a lot of hip-hip hoorays around here but they also tend to obscure who's who and who's actually for what on many, many issues.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                    Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                                    And some people ought to be better informed on exactly who's in favor of not giving vets the benefits they deserve.

                                    Some are a whole lot better/worse than others.

                                    Cause with some folks, its the soldiers this the troops that, but when you see their national budget proposals they always end up cutting the benefits for the vets.

                                    Blanket anti-govt condemnations seem to get a lot of hip-hip hoorays around here but they also tend to obscure who's who and who's actually for what on many, many issues.
                                    The benefits are being cut by Hagel. It's part of his new defense budget. Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel to recommend deep budget cuts targeting pay, benefits - CBS News
                                    But it doesn't mean it will happen.
                                    The point is we're making cuts at home, many of which will effect us and at the same time we're talking about giving another country 1+ Billion dollars.
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                                    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                                      Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                      The benefits are being cut by Hagel. It's part of his new defense budget. Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel to recommend deep budget cuts targeting pay, benefits - CBS News
                                      But it doesn't mean it will happen.
                                      The point is we're making cuts at home, many of which will effect us and at the same time we're talking about giving another country 1+ Billion dollars.

                                      If that military budget was close to clean we wouldn't have to contemplate those type of cuts.

                                      I hear the pentagon can't account for 25% of what it spends.

                                      Its one big convoluted mess with lots of waste and fraud and Ike was right.


                                      2015 Budget: #44 Seeks More Money for Veterans - Washington Wire - WSJ



                                      BTW... Foreign aid is 1% of our budget but most people thinks its much, much more.
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                                      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                        Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                                        If that military budget was close to clean we wouldn't have to contemplate those type of cuts.

                                        I hear the pentagon can't account for 25% of what it spends.

                                        Its one big convoluted mess with lots of waste and fraud.


                                        2015 Budget: #44 Seeks More Money for Veterans - Washington Wire - WSJ



                                        BTW... Foreign aid is 1% of our budget but most people thinks its much, much more.
                                        I agree.
                                        Regardless of what percentage foreign aid is in our budget, it could still be a savings to stop it.
                                        Besides how much of the aid is actually in the budget? Do you think the 1 Billion they want to gave the Ukraine is in the budget?
                                        By the way 1% is approximately $37,680,000,000 .
                                        I wouldn't mind seeing the budget drop that 1% or have that go to other more important budget items.
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                                        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                          The timing may be to flex muscle but I think Putin is focused on more than that.

                                          Access to a warm water port - potential of control over massive pipelines in Ukraine.

                                          I expect the "off ramp" talk would anger Putin - it's so obviously an attempt to "manage" him. Meanwhile - decision today to send half a dozen war planes to Poland.
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                                      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                                        Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                                        If that military budget was close to clean we wouldn't have to contemplate those type of cuts.

                                        I hear the pentagon can't account for 25% of what it spends.

                                        Its one big convoluted mess with lots of waste and fraud and Ike was right.


                                        2015 Budget: #44 Seeks More Money for Veterans - Washington Wire - WSJ



                                        BTW... Foreign aid is 1% of our budget but most people thinks its much, much more.
                                        If they say it is 1%, it is probably WELL over that! REMEMBER, they DON'T have a BUDGET and have redefined a budget to be a list of desires to be paid this year. SO, if they get a trillion, and want to spend $3Trillion, they pay 3trillion. THAT is why they keep asking for a debt ceiling increase! ***I*** don't call that a budget, and 1% in my example is really 3%! Actually, it is MORE than that after interest.

                                        Define budget any way you want, but if they say 1%, they mean 1% of what they PLAN to pay, NOT 1% of what they CAN pay, so my definition still holds.

                                        STILL, we are SERIOUSLY in debt, so I don't see your point.

                                        Steve
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                              • Profile picture of the author garyv
                                Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                                Ah. I see. It's so simple. Obama just needs to go to Kiev and say "Mr Putin, get your troops out of Ukraine". Someone should go tell him this great strategy.

                                I'm sure there were naive people saying the same thing right after Reagan gave his speech. - Not knowing that a good speech with conviction behind it, can forge great alliances.

                                - The problem is, this president has given too many empty speeches to now give one with the necessary conviction.
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                                • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                                  You are probably too young to remember but the Berlin wall stayed up another 2 years after that speech. Yes, it was a good speech and a good photo opportunity for a President who was in the midst of the Iran Contra scandal which had recently resulted in Reagan's popularity going from 67% to 46% in less than a week. ( Now that was a real scandal! ) That speech had very little to nothing to do with the tearing down of the Berlin wall or the fall of the USSR. Those things would have happened with or without that speech and Reagan.
                                  Originally Posted by garyv View Post

                                  I'm sure there were naive people saying the same thing right after Reagan gave his speech. - Not knowing that a good speech with conviction behind it, can forge great alliances.

                                  - The problem is, this president has given too many empty speeches to now give one with the necessary conviction.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                                    Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                                    You are probably too young to remember but the Berlin wall stayed up another 2 years after that speech. Yes, it was a good speech and a good photo opportunity for a President who was in the midst of the Iran Contra scandal which had recently resulted in Reagan's popularity going from 67% to 46% in less than a week. ( Now that was a real scandal! ) That speech had very little to nothing to do with the tearing down of the Berlin wall or the fall of the USSR. Those things would have happened with or without that speech.
                                    STILL, if the US were all for it, that wall may have stayed up. I could NEVER understand WHY Russia did that, but they DID, and they were SERIOUS about it.

                                    Steve
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                                  • Profile picture of the author garyv
                                    Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                                    You are probably too young to remember but the Berlin wall stayed up another 2 years after that speech. Yes, it was a good speech and a good photo opportunity for a President who was in the midst of the Iran Contra scandal which had recently resulted in Reagan's popularity going from 67% to 46% in less than a week. ( Now that was a real scandal! ) That speech had very little to nothing to do with the tearing down of the Berlin wall or the fall of the USSR. Those things would have happened with or without that speech.
                                    Sorry Tim - but I'm actually old enough to remember the speech in detail. In fact old enough to know that at the time major players from the right and the left consider that speech the beginning of the end of the cold war. - Liberals like to deny it, because they don't like giving Reagan credit for his part in ending the cold war. But that's understandable - and it's ok, because they are doing a decent job of rewriting the history books. But the truth is undeniable- and those who were actually there and listened to it knew as soon as they heard it that the wall would soon come down. - Now I'm not naive enough to think that it was the speech alone - but there's no denying that the speech was influential.

                                    Speeches do tend to have much more influence, when you actually do what you say you'll do.

                                    You may be too young to remember it... but we once had a president that actually did what he said he was going to do...

                                    Lessons from Reagan after "Tear down this wall" speech - CBS News
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                                    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
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                      • Profile picture of the author socialentry
                        Originally Posted by David Maschke View Post

                        Too much firepower? I should say we do.

                        People don't go to parks anymore for picnics, we go to the park to have some fun with firearms. Here's a video of the last visit to the park I went to...


                        Wow, this must be fun to be a military re-enactor. You guys have really nice uniforms.
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              • Profile picture of the author discrat
                This sounds like a bunch of conceded Republicans and know- it- all Democrats on this Thread.

                Same old song and dance. Rather cumbersome after awhile
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              • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                Originally Posted by garyv View Post

                Did you even watch that video? Obama said "the 80s called and want their foreign policy back". Now I'm no expert in the art of Sarcasm - but I'm pretty sure that was his sarcastic way of saying that we would have no problems with Russia.





                Actually if you paid close enough attention, he said Russia was our greatest "geopolitical foe" - and Iran was our greatest "National security threat". There's a difference, and he actually explained it - you can read it in the telegraph article you posted. -
                Romney said: "The greatest threat the US faces is a nuclear Iran ... [But] who is it who always stands up for the world's worst actors? It's always Russia, typically with China alongside.".



                As they say on the talk shows I'm going to have to leave it there.
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          • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
            Originally Posted by garyv View Post

            In fact where do you think the falsified quote "I can see Russia from my house" came from?
            I thought it was from Tina Fey's portrayal of her on Saturday Night Live.

            In other words, it wasn't a "falsified quote", it was just a joke. Nothing more, nothing less.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
    The public doesn't have any opinion on this matter, because they haven't been told what to think by the tv yet. Let alone make any predictions on the matter. Once the left/right wing cheerleaders, drone citizens, have been programmed with thoughts, then people will start talking about it.

    While Russia is moving troops on the ground, the west has signaled they will give Putin all the time he needs. The west will play it out in the political realm, then move into trade sanctions, then move it into the banking realm and threaten the Ruble.

    If Russia wants all of Ukraine, they will move north from the Crimean southern flank, and move in from the eastern flank from Russia. Kiev must be taken, the interim government arrested, and the old leader re-installed (possibly). Mobile infantry and armored divisions with close air support from fighter/bombers and helicopters.

    Putin might be happy with just saving the Crimea region, but I don't think he's going to want a NATO that close to Moscow.

    I don't think the OP, or his country, deserves this.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by David Maschke View Post

      While Russia is moving troops on the ground, the west has signaled they will give Putin all the time he needs. The west will play it out in the political realm, then move into trade sanctions, then move it into the banking realm and threaten the Ruble.
      Russia was EARLIER given control of the UN and G20, so I doubt they will be voted down. They were THEN named a member, given a voice, and PUTIN is the current president of, the G8! The G8 would be the one to threaten/support the rubble.

      If Russia wants all of Ukraine, they will move north from the Crimean southern flank, and move in from the western flank from Russia. Kiev must be taken, the interim government arrested, and the old leader re-installed (possibly). Mobile infantry and armored divisions with close air support from fighter/bombers and helicopters.

      Putin might be happy with just saving the Crimea region, but I don't think he's going to want a NATO that close to Moscow.

      I don't think the OP, or his country, deserves this.
      I think you're right about that.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author bravo75
    So my "India was nuked in ancient times" thread got nuked, yet this political thread is allowed to continue?
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    It SOUNDS to me like the new Ukrainian government is handling this as best they can, but they aren't given much power. The former president, that helped cause the problem, is now being openly protected by Russia on land they have declared THEIRS! The words imply this is NOT russia, so most are assuming it is Crimea where he was thought to have been when this started. He may even have asked for it in advance!

    Foreign countries are trying to at least IMPLY help but ALL have made it clear that military actions are off the table. Actually, that is probably the best they can do. They can be in the region and at least watch, and russia can't treat them as enemy combatants.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author MindBuzz
    It's a terrible situation. I hope that it gets resolved quickly.
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Let's hear from someone who knows firsthand about Putin, Mikheil Saakashvili former president of Georgia:

      As the former president of the ex-Soviet nation of Georgia, Mr. Saakashvili certainly knows all about confronting Russia and Vladimir Putin. He also lost a chunk of his country in the process. Now he is here in Ukraine, a country he knows well from his youth, to advise its new leaders on how they can revive the economy as well as keep their nation intact from Russian's potentially crippling intervention.

      Mr. Saakashvili studied law and served in the Soviet military in Kiev, altogether for seven years. He has many friends and knows the major politicians, who seek out his advice.

      His own rise to power also began with the victory of a youthful street uprising over a corrupt and autocratic post-Soviet leader—Georgia's Rose Revolution of 2003. Thirty-seven years old at the time, Mr. Saakashvili became the youngest president in Europe. As president, he overhauled Georgia's government and economy, pushing the country hard westward, along the way making many foes, most perilously Mr. Putin.

      "What does he want here? Chaos," Mr. Saakashvili says. "He has good chances here this time to really chop up Ukraine. It's going toward big-scale conflict. Big, big internal conflict. He'll stir up trouble in some of the Ukrainian regions. It's a very crucial moment. Russia will try to Balkanize Ukraine."

      "If Ukraine's a success, a smooth transition, a nice government, doing nice reforms—for Putin, it's the end of him," says Mr. Saakashvili. Russians will see the contrast with their slowing economy dragged down by an oligarch-Putin complex that makes Mr. Yanukovych's corruption look thrifty. "Putin is old fashioned," says the Georgian, who is now 46. "He is really obsolete."
      So, sure, Putin has always wanted to have the Ukraine, and especially Crimia, to be part of Russia again, but there seems to be another more desperate reason for the invasion of Crimia: Putin's own survival. I really don't think Putin wanted things to go like they are now. He probably preferred to have the Ukraine accept Russia's offer of $15 billion in loans with no strings attached instead of the EU's offer of $838 million with plenty of strings attached. Yanukovych pulled out of going with the deal with the EU and Euromaiden started. I don't see how this is perceived as a huge victory and not a big embarassing mess for Putin.


      Interesting read and perspective:

      The Weekend Interview With Mikheil Saakashvili: Lessons From the Putin Wars - WSJ.com
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Signature

    "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Earlier, Russias financial instruments were private and isolated. Who says they can't do that AGAIN? FURTHER, russia has a lot of pull in "diplomatic channels".

    As for the ukraine? Russia is now fully out in the open saying what they apparently only said in their area before. They said this was illegal done by extremist terrorists, and they are there to protect russians.

    Basedon what I have seen of past history, the current threats are rather empty with no teeth. Putin is probably having a big laugh over the whole thing.

    Typical stuff.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Does debt have anything to do with the crisis in Ukraine?

    How Debt Is Driving The Ukraine Crisis
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      Does debt have anything to do with the crisis in Ukraine?

      How Debt Is Driving The Ukraine Crisis
      For the record, I predicted THAT DECADES ago! SO WHAT ELSE IS NEW!?!?!?!? People get greedy, etc... They STEAL! Eventually, thhere isn't enough reward and even the real workers complain. Work doesn't get done. Supplies become scarce. People, having the whole country CHANGED to REQUIRE such things must DEMAND things. But THAT means the thieves must become hated elsewhere and/or give up their lifestyle, so they refuse.

      The next step is often a CIVIL WAR! Check out dw.de, it shows a number of them. The US got tired of things like greece and the like.

      As for thieves, MY definition is people taking things they don't deserve without permission from one that does. You can read between the lines there, but my definition is VERY different from some on this thread.

      It is said that NERO fiddled while rome burned. Do you know ANOTHER thing he was FAMOUS for, albeit far LESS so? CLIPPING COINS! YEP, he was a THIEF!!!! Methods of coin debasement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

      Some CLAIM such a war can never happen in the US, even though it has SEVERAL TIMES! As for the thieves? They are VERY active in the US.

      As said only recently here, and I believe it was in THIS thread, I credit this kind of stealing with starting WWII. HECK, it looks like it had a hand in WWI. It MAY have one in WWIII.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Gary,

    The really IRONIC thing is that RT is a socialist station from RUSSIA! Russia Today(RT for short)!!!!! WOW, I didn't even notice. I guess they want to be the russian socialist version of Deutche Welle! They even teach russian!

    More â€" RT

    RT, previously known as Russia Today, is an international multilingual Russian-based television network. It is registered as an autonomous nonprofit organization[2][3] funded by the federal budget of Russia through the Federal Agency on Press and Mass Communications of the Russian Federation.[4][5]
    But YEAH, this WAS predictable. It WAS predicted! It is simply a requirement of allcreatures on this planet and ones with brains and the ability to control there movement work in this manner. To call it humanity is unfair since even ANTS do the same thing. The only thng I don't understand is people that want to rule everything are are down right EVIL in it! Like NERO. Being EMPEROR and running the country wasn't enough?!??!?

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    Few people know that the U.S., the UK, and Russia have all signed a treaty with Ukraine. "The Budapest Memorandum" was signed in 1994 and included security assurances against threats or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine.

    If we do nothing, our treaties from here on out will mean nothing. We are in a dangerous situation.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by garyv View Post

      Few people know that the U.S., the UK, and Russia have all signed a treaty with Ukraine. "The Budapest Memorandum" was signed in 1994 and included security assurances against threats or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine.

      If we do nothing, our treaties from here on out will mean nothing. We are in a dangerous situation.
      NAZI germany did the same with russia and poland! Apparently there were a few including: the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact and German-Polish Non-Aggression Pact.

      Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by garyv View Post

      Few people know that the U.S., the UK, and Russia have all signed a treaty with Ukraine. "The Budapest Memorandum" was signed in 1994 and included security assurances against threats or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine.

      If we do nothing, our treaties from here on out will mean nothing. We are in a dangerous situation.
      BTW Russia says that they are effectively HONORING the pact. They were INVITED, etc... This is one reason why they REFUSE to acknowledge the former presidents downfall. If the former president is the rightful one, russia is in the right, was asked there, and is merely helping out! If the current government is legit, russia is in the wrong and committed an act of war!

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author garyv
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        BTW Russia says that they are effectively HONORING the pact. They were INVITED, etc... This is one reason why they REFUSE to acknowledge the former presidents downfall. If the former president is the rightful one, russia is in the right, was asked there, and is merely helping out! If the current government is legit, russia is in the wrong and committed an act of war!

        Steve

        That's a good point. Looks like it would take a trial to figure out if the treaty was actually broken. Who's going to pause the game so a trial can take place?
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Abby Maritin IS being PUNISHED!!!!!!!

    RT Defends Host Abby Martin, Responds to Accusations of Pro-Putin Propaganda - NationalJournal.com

    We respect her views, and the views of all our journalists, presenters and program hosts, and there will be absolutely no reprimands made against Ms. Martin.

    In her comment Ms. Martin also noted that she does not possess a deep knowledge of reality of the situation in Crimea. As such we'll be sending her to Crimea to give her an opportunity to make up her own mind from the epicenter of the story.
    SO, RT is claiming they won't do anything to hurt her, but will send her into a war zone THEY created and support. Isn't that nice!(SARC) OK, she lived in costa rica and spain so she can likely speak spanish. She speaks english. I wonder about russian and ukrainian. She really can't PERSONALLY report if she DOESN'T.

    OH, regarding the UKRAINE? The current #$%^&( biased people have a new talking point. They dust it off every now and then, but this is the time it makes the least sense, and the FIRST time I saw it used in the UKRAINE. They are saying it is because everyone in the UKRAINE is a NAZI and ANTISEMITIC! There are already about 2million hits on this in google!

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Russia is getting mileage ALSO:

    Moscow: US 'Blind' to Ukrainian Anti-Semitism - Global Agenda - News - Israel National News

    They speak about russophobia! The world needs *****MORE***** "Russophobia". GIVE ME A BREAK! People trust that government WAY more than they should! And WHAT is wrong with people being hesitant anyway? If they REALLY want to get rid of Russophobia, it is EASY! FIX China, NK, Cuba, Russia, UN, G20, G8, etc..., INCLUDING, among other things, less propaganda and OPEN communication and travel! STOP the garbage in the middle east and in places like the UKRAINE. After that, wait 30-50 years, and THEN we can talk!

    But the Ukraine, and their neighbors, have been down this road before, and NOW technically are AT WAR, so they are hesitant.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Since russia spoke of how such fears were unwarranted, I found an example of what the ukraine should fear:

    Holocaust by hunger: The truth behind Stalin's Great Famine | Mail Online

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
    Putin denies having troops in the Ukraine.

    In related news, he came very close to having his first emotion and cracking a smile.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by David Maschke View Post

      Putin denies having troops in the Ukraine.

      In related news, he came very close to having his first emotion and cracking a smile.
      According to what he has said up to now, he's right! He has them in crimea which he now considers RUSSIA! Don't you just LOVE politics!?!?!?(SARC)

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        According to what he has said up to now, he's right! He has them in crimea which he now considers RUSSIA! Don't you just LOVE politics!?!?!?(SARC)

        Steve
        Kerry's actual response, "He said that?" :confused: Ha!
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        • Profile picture of the author SteveSr
          Although an American, I lived three years in Kyiv, and I have many friends there. Journalism is always biased just as any writing we do. We look for what helps to support our personal beliefs. Don't tell me the facts because it will only confuse me!
          However it helps to get closer to the subject sometimes. I do believe that Russia (read:government) is spreading as much propaganda as it can. They do employ sock puppets whose job it is to scour the blogs and plant doubt through false information and useless rhetoric.
          I offer this website to my fellow English speakers to get a glimpse of what may be happening in Ukraine in real time. Check it out for yourself but remember the bias that these people believe they have been invaded by a foreign power: https://www.facebook.com/EnglishMaidan
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by SteveSr View Post

            Although an American, I lived three years in Kyiv, and I have many friends there. Journalism is always biased just as any writing we do. We look for what helps to support our personal beliefs. Don't tell me the facts because it will only confuse me!
            However it helps to get closer to the subject sometimes. I do believe that Russia (read:government) is spreading as much propaganda as it can. They do employ sock puppets whose job it is to scour the blogs and plant doubt through false information and useless rhetoric.
            I offer this website to my fellow English speakers to get a glimpse of what may be happening in Ukraine in real time. Check it out for yourself but remember the bias that these people believe they have been invaded by a foreign power: https://www.facebook.com/EnglishMaidan
            YEAH, My generation was told about russia. TODAY, it seems all how forgotten. The idea of a closed system, people trying to get OUT, and not in, silencing all, the allies, like China, NK, Cuba, and even stories from people like Katarina Witt show that the OLD American view i pretty true. I have even listened to interviews with russian leaders, and read Das Kapital in German.

            English Maidan seems to indicate that it is as I thought it likely was. They CLAIM the CIA was involved. I HOPE NOT!

            Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
              Russia is not what the Soviet Union was and there is no point in exaggerating their threat. The Soviet had 290 million people vs less than 150 for Russia. Not only that, Russia's population is at risk of imploding. It is arguable whether its conventional forces are superior to China's let alone the US. It is very unlikely that Russia will ever become a super-power again. It is only a super-power in nuclear weapons where it retains the capability to destroy the US and the rest of world completely. That is why no third country would want to get involved militarily with them head on.

              One of the triggers for intervention was the swift cancellation of the Russian language law by the new Ukrainian government

              http://rt.com/news/minority-language-law-ukraine-035/

              This was a sign to them that the new government was about to discriminate Russians in Ukraine. To them, their intervention in Ukraine is just as justified as the American invasion of Panama and Grenada.
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              • Profile picture of the author SteveSr
                Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

                Russia is not what the Soviet Union was and there is no point in exaggerating their threat. The Soviet had 290 million people vs less than 150 for Russia. Not only that, Russia's population is at risk of imploding. It is arguable whether its conventional forces are superior to China's let alone the US. It is very unlikely that Russia will ever become a super-power again. It is only a super-power in nuclear weapons where it retains the capability to destroy the US and the rest of world completely. That is why no third country would want to get involved militarily with them head on.

                One of the triggers for intervention was the swift cancellation of the Russian language law by the new Ukrainian government

                Canceled language law in Ukraine sparks concern among Russian and EU diplomats â€" RT News

                This was a sign to them that the new government was about to discriminate Russians in Ukraine. To them, their intervention in Ukraine is just as justified as the American invasion of Panama and Grenada.
                More Russian misinformation!
                rt.com is the Russian television source. I believe you should read the Ukrainian response
                Russian Minority Language in Ukraine FAQ | Euromaidan PR
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              • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

                Russia is not what the Soviet Union was and there is no point in exaggerating their threat. The Soviet had 290 million people vs less than 150 for Russia. Not only that, Russia's population is at risk of imploding. It is arguable whether its conventional forces are superior to China's let alone the US. It is very unlikely that Russia will ever become a super-power again. It is only a super-power in nuclear weapons where it retains the capability to destroy the US and the rest of world completely. That is why no third country would want to get involved militarily with them head on.
                The USSR never really disappeared. The enforced alliance is simply not as strickly enforced, etc... This attack makes that CLEAR! So don't think they can't do what they did before, and what many others have done. As for the idea of superior forces, you shot down THAT argument ALSO! If they can destroy the world, who cares if they can fight a successful land battle with conventional weapons? Their ability to fight in the SKY has been PROVEN to be impaired, but nobody is going to take them on, because they can fight long enough to do some serious damage. Besides, if one DOES start to fail, there is always another to take their place.

                One of the triggers for intervention was the swift cancellation of the Russian language law by the new Ukrainian government

                Canceled language law in Ukraine sparks concern among Russian and EU diplomats — RT News

                This was a sign to them that the new government was about to discriminate Russians in Ukraine. To them, their intervention in Ukraine is just as justified as the American invasion of Panama and Grenada.
                That at least makes a LITTLE more sense, but most people do NOT have eidetic memories. Most that DO do NOT try to learn every language out there. Most that DO try to learn other languages have differing priorities. So they may not learn russian because of its proximity, but maybe german or english or french or some such.

                So a government with multiple official languages will AUTOMATICALLY and NATURALLY discriminate against various peoples on a rolling basis. It is NATURAL LAW that won't be legislated away!

                Suppose, for example, you are russian, on a day trip to some nearby city and end up in a car crash. BANG, SOMEBODY(AGAIN, required by NATURAL LAW, that person will likely be RANDOM) picks them up and, SURPRISE, they don't know RUSSIAN! You could start to have problems. EVEN if there are great translators, you may have to WAIT!

                And what of STREET SIGNS? Studies have shown(as if they even needed a study), that shape and color can be deciphered quicker, but that doesn't mean they will be interpreted the same by all. I don't know HOW the people in india do it, but I'm betting even THEY have problems with the signs written in multiple languages.

                HEY, even Switzerland only has 4 official languages, allocated to various regions, and law makers have to know 2 or 3 of them.

                So it makes sense that a government would want one language. It is easier on all, cheaper to teach, allows the country to communicate, and provides a STANDARD means of communication.

                As for the idea of the swastika, etc... I can't understand the attraction. But it may be propaganda, etc... WHO KNOWS? Recently, they claimed a bill here was anti-homosexual, though it mentioned NOTHING about them, and really has nothing to do with them. It was merely about freedom of association and faith. You really can't trust words these days, they are redefined in such odd ways, etc...

                Still, as STEVESR says, many speak russian. I even mentioned earlier that they at least taught(and probably still do), russian. WHY? Because it WAS the USSR. It's possible that even today all the former members and eastern european countries on the periphery teach russian.

                Steve
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              • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

                Russia is not what the Soviet Union was and there is no point in exaggerating their threat. The Soviet had 290 million people vs less than 150 for Russia. Not only that, Russia's population is at risk of imploding. It is arguable whether its conventional forces are superior to China's let alone the US. It is very unlikely that Russia will ever become a super-power again. It is only a super-power in nuclear weapons where it retains the capability to destroy the US and the rest of world completely. That is why no third country would want to get involved militarily with them head on.

                One of the triggers for intervention was the swift cancellation of the Russian language law by the new Ukrainian government

                Canceled language law in Ukraine sparks concern among Russian and EU diplomats — RT News

                This was a sign to them that the new government was about to discriminate Russians in Ukraine. To them, their intervention in Ukraine is just as justified as the American invasion of Panama and Grenada.

                I think Mr. Putin is trying to rebound from a couple of international setbacks - namely to his good friends in Libya and Syria.

                All the pretexts/triggers are phoney:

                If a sovereign nation wants to make its very own language the primary language of their country who's to say they shouldn't?

                It doesn't mean anyone will discriminate against Russians living in the Ukraine it just means that Ukrainian is the official language of the country.

                As far as Putins' claims that he's looking out for Russians in the Ukraine I think the...

                ...Ukrainians already knew full well if they seriously bother Russians in Ukraine there will be hell to pay.

                I think Putin wanted to flex Russia's muscles for the international community to save some face, and as far as that navel base is concerned I'm sure Ukraine already knew if they even threaten to give control of it to anyone other than the Russkies it may end with the Russian occupation of their entire country so I don't think Putin was really concerned about the base.

                But it is a opportunity to save a little face for Putin and not look like a total pushover for the west to the rest of the world especially when he knows there's not much of anything the west can do to stop him in this situation.
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            • Profile picture of the author SteveSr
              Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

              YEAH, My generation was told about russia. TODAY, it seems all how forgotten. The idea of a closed system, people trying to get OUT, and not in, silencing all, the allies, like China, NK, Cuba, and even stories from people like Katarina Witt show that the OLD American view i pretty true. I have even listened to interviews with russian leaders, and read Das Kapital in German.

              English Maidan seems to indicate that it is as I thought it likely was. They CLAIM the CIA was involved. I HOPE NOT!

              Steve
              Please quote the source for this impression. I didn't ever see that in the posts from Ukraine.
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              • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                Originally Posted by SteveSr View Post

                Please quote the source for this impression. I didn't ever see that in the posts from Ukraine.
                In the post:

                Euromaidan in English
                21 hours ago
                via Antonina Kamil Klops
                Photo: via Antonina Kamil Klops
                There is a graphic that says that "maidan faschists" were trained in poland and funded by the CIA.

                Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author rodelu
    Maksym,

    My heart goes out to you, your family and all the Ukranian people. I am 100% against war and any kind of aggression to other countries, as the innocent people are the ones who suffer the most. People just want to raise their families, go to work, enjoy life. Having another country invade your country is completely unacceptable. I am very sorry for what you and your family are going through.

    May it end soon. I will keep you and your people in my prayers.

    Gabriel
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Frankly, I'm confused and afraid of the posture US leadership is taking.
    Kerry calling it a Russian invasion of the Crimean peninsula...
    Maybe not enough accurate information. "truth is the first thing to disappear....

    One of my employees is 23, not super educated or politically savvy,
    (and English not being her first language - I may not get what she is trying
    to say about complicated issues) but she is from Sevastopol:
    Sevastopol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
    Second largest Ukrainian city. She speaks Russian and Ukranian and English.
    Most people in her country seem to speak Russian and Ukrainian. The
    languages are similar - seems that way to me anyway.

    My confusion comes from the fact the she says Sevastopol wants to become
    Russian again.

    She does agree the Ukranian leader was bad. She is worried about her country
    - Mom, Dad, and brother still there... She calls the violence that occurred stupid.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      Frankly, I'm confused and afraid of the posture US leadership is taking.
      Kerry calling it a Russian invasion of the Crimean peninsula...
      Maybe not enough accurate information. "truth is the first thing to disappear....

      One of my employees is 23, not super educated or politically savvy,
      (and English not being her first language - I may not get what she is trying
      to say about complicated issues) but she is from Sevastopol:
      Sevastopol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
      Second largest Ukrainian city. She speaks Russian and Ukranian and English.
      Most people in her country seem to speak Russian and Ukrainian. The
      languages are similar - seems that way to me anyway.

      My confusion comes from the fact the she says Sevastopol wants to become
      Russian again.

      She does agree the Ukranian leader was bad. She is worried about her country
      - Mom, Dad, and brother still there... She calls the violence that occurred stupid.
      OK, I know enough, that BOTH sides say is factual, that I can clear this up for you.

      Ukranian IS close to russian, and apparently russian leaders see it as russian mixed with polish. HEY, the Iranians see Farsi as Persian mixed with Arabic! URDU is sanscrit mixed with arabic. English looks like it is based on Danish and some low german. That is how a LOT of languages are created.

      The city of Sevastopol is located at the southwestern tip of the Crimean peninsula
      THERE is your answer!!!! Crimea is mostly russian, and many consider themselves russian. That is one reason the former leader ran there, and russia took over that part.

      Realize though that her views are tainted! All things being equal, she WILL side with russia. That doesn't mean the rest of the country does.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Speaking of history Tim, in 1979 ( a year before Regan took office) Sen. Pat Moynahan (NY) wrote a report predicting the fall of the USSR, due to economics.
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    • Profile picture of the author garyv
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Folks, please watch the politics and the name-calling.
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    Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Antagonizing Putin with the Hitler comments isn't a smart idea.
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    • Profile picture of the author Midnight Oil
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      Antagonizing Putin with the Hitler comments isn't a smart idea.
      He might be cool with it.
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  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
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    Do not get between a wombat and a chocolate biscuit; you will regret it dearly!

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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    If nothing else, the US is getting more of a glimpse of who RT is. Abby didn't like the idea of being thrown UNPREPARED into a war zone to supposedly learn what was going on. She said NO WAY! ANOTHER revealed that she shouldn't actually be working there and SHE quit! IRONICALLY, RT reported on them. I guess they HAVE TO for two US citizens!

    http://rt.com/op-edge/about-liz-wahl-media-wars-126/

    And WHAT DOES SHE MEAN "EVEN THE BLAZE"? YEAH they watch, and OF COURSE they will report. I'm shocked the like of huffington post did. And people have been speaking against the corporatocracy. Of course they don't often collect names to report them for WWII, and the like. HECK, we ALSO talk about a facet THEY likely never will.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      I don't understand the need to keep fighting for "credit" as if running the country is some big popularity contest. Oh snap - for some, that's all it is.

      Arguing the 44 vs 43 is going straight into what Paul just cautioned about - so why do it?

      (edited to avoid political fracas)

      Steve - That's a problem with out partisan media. Abby reported from both sides and our side can't take criticism without a knee jerk reaction. It's not due to "party" - both sides react that way.

      I watched a conversation (Hadley?) on CNN last night that made an interesting point. Putin doesn't need to hold all of Ukraine - the Crimea is enough. It's exactly what he did - and we let him get by with - in Georgia. The result is two countries that are not appealing to the EU (as members) because they are "divided".

      Referring to Putin as a "thug" and dissing him as a rough and undisciplined leader is a mistake in my opinion but it seems to be the D.C. policy and most of the media jump on board.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        I don't understand the need to keep fighting for "credit" as if running the country is some big popularity contest. Oh snap - for some, that's all it is.
        YEP.

        Steve - That's a problem with partisan media. Abby reported from both sides and our side can't take criticism without a knee jerk reaction. It's not due to "party" - both sides react that way.
        Well, I have heard plenty that have said otherwise freely speak ill of people, INCLUDING REAGAN. We used to make FUN of russia doing this sort of thing.

        I watched a conversation (Hadley?) on CNN last night that made an interesting point. Putin doesn't need to hold all of Ukraine - the Crimea is enough. It's exactly what he did - and we let him get by with - in Georgia. The result is two countries that are not appealing to the EU (as members) because they are "divided".

        Referring to Putin as a "thug" and dissing him as a rough and undisciplined leader is a mistake in my opinion but it seems to be the D.C. policy and most of the media jump on board.
        I agree 100% there. AGAIN on HANNITY, they practically LAUDED putin for his way of handling this and his life. I tried to find a link about it, and did, but I found ANOTHER site that compares putins life and actions to YKW. YIKES! If the IRS finds out, and they are american citizens, they will be audited BIG TIME.

        For people like that to insult PUTIN for something like this, putin is probably resting and having a great laugh.

        As for crimea, as I said earlier, they MIGHT stop there. I think putin may ask for a vote in the ukraine though. If they decide to go with russia, putin likely WILL insist. Putin really is pushing the humanitarian angle, even though apparently the russians are the one belittling, etc...

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    The latest 1:23 EST Thursday, March 6th:

    U.S. & Europe impose visa restrictions on Russians and people they deem involved in violating Ukraine's sovereignty.


    Assets are being frozen and visas are imminent.

    http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefi...s-over-ukraine designed to impose a cost on Russia/Putin.

    As reported earlier the Crimea's MPs voted to join Russia and now Russia wants a referendum in Crimea to decide if Crimea will officially join Russia again.

    I wonder how many people are involved and at what cost are these sanctions etc. from the U.S. and probably Britain, France and Germany?

    Note: In an surprising turn, Speaker Boehner supported the sanctions.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      I see more threats of sanctions - and Europe isn't fully on board.

      We have to proceed cautiously because we have many US interests in Russia - major US corporations doing business in Russia.

      What do we have to gain by imposing sanctions?

      Russia works on law to hurt EU, U.S. companies as sanctions reply-RIA | Reuters
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      • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        I see more threats of sanctions - and Europe isn't fully on board.

        We have to proceed cautiously because we have many US interests in Russia - major US corporations doing business in Russia.

        What do we have to gain by imposing sanctions?

        Russia works on law to hurt EU, U.S. companies as sanctions reply-RIA | Reuters
        Good questions.
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  • Profile picture of the author socialentry
    Look like the pwn3ge becomes more complete by the hour.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Well, people in the US HAVE said, in a kind of alpha dog speak, WE WANT TO HURT YOU, DESTROY US! NOT the type of thing to say from the position of weakness they have worked so hard to get.

    What COULD we really hope to do at this point? As for the alpha dog speak, PUTIN sees himself as an alpha dog, and is likely insulted(in an amussing way to him) by the challenge. OTHERS may look at it from a patriotic standpoint, and be willing to fight over it.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Former World Chess Champion, Garry Kasparov says...

    Cut Off the Russian Oligarchs and They'll Dump Putin.

    Target their assets abroad, their mansions and IPOs in London, their yachts.

    Use banks, not tanks.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      Former World Chess Champion, Garry Kasparov says...

      Cut Off the Russian Oligarchs and They'll Dump Putin.

      Target their assets abroad, their mansions and IPOs in London, their yachts.

      Use banks, not tanks.
      I WONDER! What kind of chess player is PUTIN?

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/0...it-Did-in-Iraq

    U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry, who voted in 2002 for the U.S. to invade Iraq on specious WMD claims, and who reiterated in 2004 that he would do so again, even if he knew there were not weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, has really laid into Russia on the Obama administration's behalf.

    "It is really a stunning, willful choice by President Putin to invade another country...You just don’t in the 21st century behave in 19th century fashion by invading another country on completely trumped up pretext."'
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

      With No Shame, U.S. Tells Russia Not to Invade Another Country on Fake Pre-Text (As it Did in Iraq)

      U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry, who voted in 2002 for the U.S. to invade Iraq on specious WMD claims, and who reiterated in 2004 that he would do so again, even if he knew there were not weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, has really laid into Russia on the Obama administration's behalf.

      "It is really a stunning, willful choice by President Putin to invade another country...You just don't in the 21st century behave in 19th century fashion by invading another country on completely trumped up pretext."'
      Well, I just got done watching 1.5 hours of the history of russia from the last "fall of communism" to the first war and propaganda under putin.

      Yeltsin was in failing health, so they decided to appoint a new leader. They picked a virtual unknown. Yeltsin HIMSELF pleaded with the guy that supposedly had no political aspirations. The guys that virtually OWNED government and the industries at that time, except for one, basically said they didn't care about the election. The other "owner" said heliked the pick. Well, the guy, who you have probably guessed was Vladimir Putin, was elected president. He invited his whole stuff as yeltsin had. And he told the "owners" to GET LOST! They said "But WE got you elected!". He said "That was yesterday and is past.". Putin ALSO demanded that all their debts be handled ASAP. They once had full control, and are now in exile.

      So it gives you an idea of how he thinks, and he WILL manipulate things easily and in a planned way. As for trumped up, it is hard to say. Many in crimea, from what I have heard, WOULD go along freely. Detractors are now claiming parliment was FORCED to vote for russia and contrary votes weren't counted. Who knows though? The US has the SAME problems!

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author beasty513
    Does anyone here think that

    this will esclate into WW3?


    Or is this just some obscure conflict that the U.S.

    shouldn't be involved with?
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by beasty513 View Post

      Does anyone here think that

      this will esclate into WW3?


      Or is this just some obscure conflict that the U.S.

      shouldn't be involved with?
      NO. What I think appears to be the current WWIII plan is on schedule. It involves russia in a somewhat indirect way, but likely NOT the Ukraine.

      I WISH I could think of a way to determine what is REALLY happening with the Ukraine, and find a way to fix it, but I think the US government is doing everything WRONG right now! Maybe that IS the plan since it could have effects that WILL bleed into the OTHER plan(WWIII).

      But the time for the US to PROPERLY handle this is LONG PAST, from what I can see. We are like japan when those planes fell to a lower level, in pearl harbor, and the pilots just released the weapons. If ONLY they knew that such an act would just trigger events that would mean a lot of deaths on their side, EVEN WITHOUT THE BOMB. They could have avoided ALL of that! THEN, they could have surrendered after nazism fell.

      Of course, if the US manages to dial things down well enough, US-Russia relations can likely return to somewhat normal levels. But this has ALREADY been likened to a similar event that happened in the late 70s. I predicted THEN that the middle east would just get more aggressive to the US, in late 2001 figured we would be attacked, and we WERE.

      As for RUSSIA, I don't know if they TRULY believe that the ukrainians want to join russia, etc... That IS what they are claiming though. If the US could EXPLAIN the situation to putin, and if putin is wrong, maybe Russia will simply pull out, or at least leave the non crimean parts alone.

      Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by beasty513 View Post

      Does anyone here think that

      this will esclate into WW3?


      Or is this just some obscure conflict that the U.S.

      shouldn't be involved with?
      I think we're into a lot of countries that we should be involved in at all. I also think that this could very well escalate into WWIII. There are a lot of corps that make hella money when masses of people from masses of countries are killing each other.

      I also hope like hell it doesn't escalate. The whole world is in turmoil right now and I think it'd be a good time to call enough is enough on global leaders.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        I think we're into a lot of countries that we should be involved in at all. I also think that this could very well escalate into WWIII. There are a lot of corps that make hella money when masses of people from masses of countries are killing each other.

        I also hope like hell it doesn't escalate. The whole world is in turmoil right now and I think it'd be a good time to call enough is enough on global leaders.
        Oh yeah, I forgot to tell you guys. NK is acting up again! SK and the USA are likely to have MORE new problems. It sounds like putin may have given that guy an idea.

        Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author HN
      Banned
      Originally Posted by beasty513 View Post

      Does anyone here think that

      this will esclate into WW3?

      Or is this just some obscure conflict that the U.S. shouldn't be involved with?
      What do you mean US shouldn't be involved with? Wasn't it orchestrated by US? US paid $5 billion for this.
      The same snipers were shooting BOTH the protestants and the police. Soccer fans of two Ukrainian teams were paid 200-500 grivna to beat the s*it out of the peaceful protestants just before the police arrived, so that policed could be blamed.
      For God's (or Darwin's - whoever is your hero) sake, there is footage that shows the bullets were fired from behind the protestants, while police forces were facing them.

      Please tell me I 've been listening to the wrong media.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh_YkdGbWqk

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9O_7OZX1xg

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nP6yqA2LX8
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by HN View Post

        What do you mean US shouldn't be involved with? Wasn't it orchestrated by US? US paid $5 billion for this.
        The same snipers were shooting BOTH the protestants and the police. Soccer fans of two Ukrainian teams were paid 200-500 grivna to beat the s*it out of the peaceful protestants just before the police arrived, so that policed could be blamed.
        For God's (or Darwin's - whoever is your hero) sake, there is footage that shows the bullets were fired from behind the protestants, while police forces were facing them.

        Please tell me I 've been listening to the wrong media.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh_YkdGbWqk

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9O_7OZX1xg

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nP6yqA2LX8
        Well, the US isn't REALLY the US anymore! There is evidence that an overriding power that now sees itself, at the highest government level as a coalition of governments supplied BOTH sides of the ukrainian conflict. Remember that "I am ukrainian" video? Apparently it was paid for by the "us" government, and created by some americans. As for that coalition? It should become more and more obvious that it is kind of tied to russia.

        BTW by "protestants" I THINK you mean "protesters"

        Anyway, it IS interesting. I don't know if this is the intent, but basically you have a government that is SO large that nobody would touch it, yet small enough that many seem to laugh at the idea that they are a threat, They have their hands in SO MANY things that many would rather WORK WITH them.

        HERE, they seem to have a foreign agency launder records to create a war that bankrupts countries that they want to be poor while giving them a reason to come in and kill their detractors. Meanwhile, they get more resources and take over. If there were no war, MORE may have been against them if there were no war.

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      Yeah, supposedly most of the people in crimea are Russian, and want to be with russia. it has historic ties to russia and is strategic. i think what really makes it hard to give it up without russia and putin losing face, is that they supposedly voted to be part of russia.

      Quite some time ago, in this thread, i said they may even separate it like nk and sk now. Between nk/sk and berlin, there is certainly precedent.

      As for gates statements on georgia, I was shocked georgia went SO far, and was wondering if russia would do anything. They actually had commercials in the US advertising GEORGIA(THE EAST EUROPEAN COUNTRY, NOT THE US STATE) as a place to come for business! They made it sound great! Still, I doubt he felt a lot of encouragement from the US to invade.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
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  • Profile picture of the author IrfanUllah
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    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by IrfanUllah View Post

      It seems Ukraine has become a playground for the big powers' interests game, i.e. Russia and the West. Unfortunately the people of Ukraine will bear the consequences in any case.
      And they may just get their freedom from the bear - but time will tell.

      The Russians get what they've always had, control of the ports in Crimea.


      BTW...

      Germany's Merkel talks tough...

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...ef=mostpopular
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