Scenes From a Militarized America

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As the author says, when some of us talk about the militarization of US police departments, this is what we're talking about. There is no excuse for this, and I seriously question the judgement of anyone who authorized this type of police action.

Scenes from a militarized America: Iowa family ‘terrorized’
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Excerpt from: Rise of the Warrior Cop: The Militarization of America's Police Forces,

    The rise of SWAT teams nationwide, the number of annual SWAT deployments in the U.S., has gone from a few hundred in the '70s, to 30,000 per year in the early '80s, to 50,000 in 2005. That's 100, 150 times a day in this country you have these heavily armed police teams breaking into homes, and the vast majority of times it's to enforce laws against consensual crimes.
    That was 2005. Now they are being given military vehicles, too. Seems people only understand fascism when there are concentration camps running. Unfortunately - by that time the State has convinced large numbers of the population that the action is "necessary".

    Right now the police are under scrutiny for shooting family dogs - even though they are presenting no threat to them.

    It's called "indoctrination" and it would be a good thing for people to address their concerns about it to their legislators now - because if you wait til later, it may well be illegal to do so.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      What seems so odd is to use this level of force in a city of 45k people. And they say they have NO policies for search warrants? Are they crazy. They've got the fancy clothing but no procedural training?

      This sounds to me less like militarization than like a bunch of wannabe rambos. I have a feeling this will cost the town some money....and it should.
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  • Profile picture of the author socialentry
    If I were a cop, I'd ask for an armored van with a minigun on top.

    Or just a minigun for myself.


    But I'd be a chill cop, like I would give pass to minor traffic violations.
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
    Strangely, miniguns are actually not illegal in most places, because
    they were produced before current laws.

    But in the extremely rare cases that one goes up for sale,
    they are normally in the $300K to $450K range.
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    • Profile picture of the author socialentry
      Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

      Strangely, miniguns are actually not illegal in most places, because
      they were produced before current laws.

      But in the extremely rare cases that one goes up for sale,
      they are normally in the $300K to $450K range.
      It could prove very useful for hunting lions in Africa.

      Thanks for the heads up as lions are extremely dangerous creatures to men, I now have another item on my christmas list.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
    Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post

    As the author says, when some of us talk about the militarization of US police departments, this is what we're talking about. There is no excuse for this, and I seriously question the judgement of anyone who authorized this type of police action.

    Scenes from a militarized America: Iowa family ‘terrorized’
    LOL. People don't want to hear about this. Let's talk about important subjects, like Justin Bieber and superbowl commercials.

    A few days ago I was listening to the radio, and the host asked the audience, "What is the name of the third planet from the sun?" For a half hour, I was listening to answers like, "the moon," and "the big dipper." Mind you these were grown adults calling in, not second graders.
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by David Maschke View Post

      LOL. People don't want to hear about this. Let's talk about important subjects, like Justin Bieber and superbowl commercials.

      A few days ago I was listening to the radio, and the host asked the audience, "What is the name of the third planet from the sun?" For a half hour, I was listening to answers like, "the moon," and "the big dipper." Mind you these were grown adults calling in, not second graders.

      I don't mind people having a little fun now and again - fascism takes too much of that away from us.........but I wonder how many would watch Cable TV if they realized their TV might just be watching them back.
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      • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        but I wonder how many would watch Cable TV if they realized their TV might just be watching them back.
        This is where you get to put the dunce cap on my noggin. I'm using chrome even though I know better.

        You are right, though. A good mental attitude can't be taken away.
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          David,
          A few days ago I was listening to the radio, and the host asked the audience, "What is the name of the third planet from the sun?"
          Any good country music fan would immediately know that one. It's in a Joe Diffie song!



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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        I don't mind people having a little fun now and again - fascism takes too much of that away from us.........but I wonder how many would watch Cable TV if they realized their TV might just be watching them back.
        I HOPE you are kidding! When I got my current TVs, those standards and/or technology didn't exist yet. TODAY, they DO! A camera could EASILY by LEFT in the basic design and send data back through the cable people likely have.

        Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by David Maschke View Post

      LOL. People don't want to hear about this. Let's talk about important subjects, like Justin Bieber and superbowl commercials.

      A few days ago I was listening to the radio, and the host asked the audience, "What is the name of the third planet from the sun?" For a half hour, I was listening to answers like, "the moon," and "the big dipper." Mind you these were grown adults calling in, not second graders.
      HECK, there was even a popular show called "third rock from the sun", and it gt a mention in MIB II! They SHOULD have asked what the FIRST planet, or the last planet considered in the 1970s, that is no longer considered a planet. Would MORE have gotten THEM right? Would the answers have been funnier?

      Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Good response, Kurt. Now, did Hendrix also do "Prop me up beside the jukebox?"

      Anyway...

      This sort of thing (the raid, not the music) is disturbing on all sorts of levels. Like, why wasn't this all over the national news? Since the people they were looking for weren't there, how do they get away with evading questions with "It's part of an ongoing investigation?" And why weren't the cops who shut down those legally placed cameras immediately suspended from duty?

      That's all aside from the extreme overkill for the situation...


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      • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Good response, Kurt. Now, did Hendrix also do "Prop me up beside the jukebox?"

        Anyway...

        This sort of thing (the raid, not the music) is disturbing on all sorts of levels. Like, why wasn't this all over the national news? Since the people they were looking for weren't there, how do they get away with evading questions with "It's part of an ongoing investigation?" And why weren't the cops who shut down those legally placed cameras immediately suspended from duty?

        That's all aside from the extreme overkill for the situation...


        Paul
        All good questions, and its doubtful that any will be answered.

        It's just my opinion, but I really think that many LEOs consider themselves above the law - not with a criminal mindset, but with a "the end justifies the means" way of thinking.

        Maybe I'm not looking at the right LEOs, but I don't see much evidence of "public servant" in their behavior any more.
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        • Profile picture of the author HeySal
          Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post

          All good questions, and its doubtful that any will be answered.

          It's just my opinion, but I really think that many LEOs consider themselves above the law - not with a criminal mindset, but with a "the end justifies the means" way of thinking.

          Maybe I'm not looking at the right LEOs, but I don't see much evidence of "public servant" in their behavior any more.
          The supreme court decided that it's not an officer's job to protect citizens. It's their job to enforce the law. Period.

          Paul - it's kinda easy for them to get away with anything that politicians have within their agenda. The MS news media is NOT a free press anymore. It's owned by 6 corporations, 4 which have high level execs with family in the current Admin staff. We don't hear much of anything they don't want us to. Every so often a reporter will go "rogue" on them and start reporting real news, but they don't last too long when they do. Our admin HATES whistleblowers.
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          • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
            Not wanting to get involved in something that's none of my business but that was for credit card fraud?

            The only time I've seen anything like that by police here is when dealing with major organised crime or terrorists.

            Granted, you have far more guns over there but that did seem a trifle over the top.

            Regarding the cameras being ripped off, er, again, the only time I've seen that is when someone is up to no good, and they are very much aware that they're up to no good.
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

            The supreme court decided that it's not an officer's job to protect citizens. It's their job to enforce the law. Period.

            Paul - it's kinda easy for them to get away with anything that politicians have within their agenda. The MS news media is NOT a free press anymore. It's owned by 6 corporations, 4 which have high level execs with family in the current Admin staff. We don't hear much of anything they don't want us to. Every so often a reporter will go "rogue" on them and start reporting real news, but they don't last too long when they do. Our admin HATES whistleblowers.
            MAN, do they have that twisted! LAWS are to protect the people! The polce are supposed to enforce the laws to PROTECT THE PEOPLE!

            Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Good response, Kurt. Now, did Hendrix also do "Prop me up beside the jukebox?"


        Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          Can Diffie kiss the sky?
          Don't know. I do know his friend, Bubba, can shoot just where he was aiming and hit the juke box.
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  • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
    I don't have a problem with the police removing the camera in the front and
    covering up the one inside. What would you do if you were about to raid
    a place and found some camera's? I know what I would do. Same as the cops did.

    Tactically it makes perfect sense. You never know who is on the other side watching.
    Where they are watching from or what they are doing in response to your actions.
    The whole point of a raid is to catch some one by surprise, you cant assume anything
    in a dangerous situation.

    Also, they don't raid with out doing some groundwork first. Like knowing who is
    in the house. One of the occupants had a registered hand gun. Bet your last dollar
    the police knew about that gun before they even went into the place.

    That knowledge changes everything. Now it is a legit threat. One that needs
    to be neutralized as quickly and safely as possible.

    Iowa has a huge meth and gang problem.( from what I hear in the news ) one
    of the favorite tactics is to card ( stolen credit cards ) and kite ( stolen checks )
    in order to buy what is needed to supply the meth labs.

    People on or around meth scene are bat shit loco and tend to make really stupid decisions ...
    They also generally speaking, have security cameras and weapons.

    I can absolutely see why they went in the way they did.
    It would be foolish to do it any other way.

    The guy in that bathroom with the gun, I am not buying his story.
    How long does it take to kick a door two times or three times?

    Guy hears noise in the other room, pulls his pants up stands up, draws his weapon ..

    Kick one.

    a split second later a second kick ... and he hears the word police ...

    Do you really think there was enough time to make a decision, re holster his weapon
    and sit down before the door flew open?

    I don't think so. That door would have flown open, he would still be holding the gun
    or possibly he did have time to put it away ... but not sit down.

    and what do you do when see a gun pointing at you ... your instinct is to
    put your hands in the air ... He knew it was the police before they kicked
    in the bathroom door ... or he froze and did nothing.

    It reeks of an after effect story to make himself look good.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

      I don't have a problem with the police removing the camera in the front and
      covering up the one inside. What would you do if you were about to raid
      a place and found some camera's? I know what I would do. Same as the cops did.

      Tactically it makes perfect sense. You never know who is on the other side watching.
      Where they are watching from or what they are doing in response to your actions.
      The whole point of a raid is to catch some one by surprise, you cant assume anything
      in a dangerous situation.

      Also, they don't raid with out doing some groundwork first. Like knowing who is
      in the house. One of the occupants had a registered hand gun. Bet your last dollar
      the police knew about that gun before they even went into the place.

      That knowledge changes everything. Now it is a legit threat. One that needs
      to be neutralized as quickly and safely as possible.

      Iowa has a huge meth and gang problem.( from what I hear in the news ) one
      of the favorite tactics is to card ( stolen credit cards ) and kite ( stolen checks )
      in order to buy what is needed to supply the meth labs.

      People on or around meth scene are bat shit loco and tend to make really stupid decisions ...
      They also generally speaking, have security cameras and weapons.

      I can absolutely see why they went in the way they did.
      It would be foolish to do it any other way.

      The guy in that bathroom with the gun, I am not buying his story.
      How long does it take to kick a door two times or three times?

      Guy hears noise in the other room, pulls his pants up stands up, draws his weapon ..

      Kick one.

      a split second later a second kick ... and he hears the word police ...

      Do you really think there was enough time to make a decision, re holster his weapon
      and sit down before the door flew open?

      I don't think so. That door would have flown open, he would still be holding the gun
      or possibly he did have time to put it away ... but not sit down.

      and what do you do when see a gun pointing at you ... your instinct is to
      put your hands in the air ... He knew it was the police before they kicked
      in the bathroom door ... or he froze and did nothing.

      It reeks of an after effect story to make himself look good.
      Well Ken, I can't really argue with you, I'm across the pond and not really qualified to comment.

      Just saying what it looked like to me.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Tactically, it made sense to me too.
    But, what is missing for me is why they did the raid in the first place.
    Nothing has been mentioned about crimes serious enough to warrant this
    action, or drug or gang ties.

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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      That knowledge changes everything. Now it is a legit threat. One that needs to be neutralized as quickly and safely as possible.
      I don't agree with that, Ken. The "raid" was for "fraudulent use of credit cards" - not a violent crime. If they were raiding a meth lab or drug house - that's one thing....but this was not that classification of crime.

      Someone with a registered gun and a carry permit is not a "high threat" - it's the unregistered weapons that you don't know about that would worry you. You seem to be rewriting the news story to add theories and facts that are not mentioned or in evidence. The man said he pulled the gun - heard the people shout "police" and immediately put the gun away before the bathroom door was opened. That makes sense for someone who is not a criminal.

      To me this is the "fraud" crime where you gather evidence and pull the people in for interrogation. I can't find anything to justify this militaristic approach.
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      • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        I don't agree with that, Ken. The "raid" was for "fraudulent use of credit cards" - not a violent crime. If they were raiding a meth lab or drug house - that's one thing....but this was not that classification of crime.

        Someone with a registered gun and a carry permit is not a "high threat" - it's the unregistered weapons that you don't know about that would worry you. You seem to be rewriting the news story to add theories and facts that are not mentioned or in evidence. The man said he pulled the gun - heard the people shout "police" and immediately put the gun away before the bathroom door was opened. That makes sense for someone who is not a criminal.

        To me this is the "fraud" crime where you gather evidence and pull the people in for interrogation. I can't find anything to justify this militaristic approach.
        Let me be clear, I am in no way endorsing the use of gestapo tactics.
        I am sure my previous post may allude to that, to some people.

        Also, since i am not in enforcement of any kind, nor have I ever been.
        Everything I say about the topic is nothing more then conjecture.

        With that said. I think the gun alone merits the use of extreme caution
        and a blitz.

        To me, the why is simple. There are only two responses to an attack

        Fight or flight.

        If someone is kicking down your door, real or not the perceived threat
        of "we are being attacked" is emotionally real.

        So I guess that makes the odds real good that officers in raids
        have been shot at or even killed ... by legal gun owners in there own
        home during a raid of some sort.

        See in my eyes, until neutralized ... that gun is a threat regardless of
        who is in possession of it.


        ---

        Now with all that said. I think an investigator or two should have knocked
        on the door and talked with the suspects.

        I think that's what you were trying to convey. I agree with you.

        I missed the theories part ... Not theories, just showing a perspective
        on why ...

        Calling BS on the guy in the bathroom's story, yeah, that is a theory
        and I stand behind the thought.
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        • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
          I think in this case excessive force was used - it seems like parts of the story are missing, though - were these credit card fraudsters supposed to be armed and dangerous and that is why this search was conducted this way?

          I always thought police officers were supposed to serve and protect - not destroy private property -
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  • Profile picture of the author taskemann
    This is exactly why every man and woman in the world should be able to buy any gun they want without registration to protect themselves, their family and their property. I don't think the sheriff in Bull's Ranch county in Texas harass the 5'th generation NRA member family Dixon's in the same way as the cops (SWAT team?) in "progressive" L.A. harass young mr. Johnson because he posted a pro-gun comment on facebook.

    Being able to legally own unregistered guns should be an international human right.

    But NOOOOOO... Powerhungry politicans and their archlicking media always blame the ordinary and law-abiding Joe and his rifle when some mentally ill and overmedicated person shot people in "gun-free" zones in heavy gun-regulated cities... Why are places where almost everyone own guns so peaceful? Is it because they use 1-blade disposable razors and wear rubber boots?
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Gotta love that "archlicking" terminology.
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    • Profile picture of the author taskemann
      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      Gotta love that "archlicking" terminology.
      Bitte Deutsche ist always wuntherf├╝l.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Can Diffie kiss the sky?
    He's a country boy. They frown on the material necessary for that.

    Or they used to. Hard to keep track any more...
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    I don't have a problem with the police removing the camera in the front and covering up the one inside. What would you do if you were about to raid a place and found some camera's?
    That might hold some logical weight if the second camera hadn't been covered after they were already inside. At that point, there is no defensive stealth advantage to be gained. Only the prevention of recording of the event by the residents.

    It's fairly well established that many police officers don't want to be recorded in the performance of their duties. Over the past few years, quite a number of people have been arrested for "interfering with a police officer" for nothing more than standing well out of the way and recording police using their cell phones.

    This ranks right up there with the law in Florida that makes it a crime to photograph any part of a farm without the owner's permission.
    Do you really think there was enough time to make a decision, re holster his weapon and sit down before the door flew open?
    From the time they broke in the front door and started shouting (which was the first noise he'd have heard to indicate a potential threat) to the time they hit the bathroom door the second time? For a person who's served in the military?

    Yeah. I do.

    I think a more precise question, which could be answered more usefully by the recordings of the event, would be: How much of a lapse was there between the first time the officers shouted "Police" and the time they broke through the bathroom door.

    Given that the dude was sitting peacefully with his gun holstered when they came into the bathroom, it's pretty much a moot point, though.


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    • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      That might hold some logical weight if the second camera hadn't been covered after they were already inside. At that point, there is no defensive stealth advantage to be gained. Only the prevention of recording of the event by the residents.
      That would depend on when they covered up the second camera.

      If the entire house was cleared first, then I would 100% agree with you.

      If they had not made it into the attic, basement or any other rooms
      then its back to being the smart thing to do.

      People being arrested for filming police in action disgusts me.
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
        Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

        People being arrested for filming police in action disgusts me.
        And me as well.

        Here in Houston, they're experimenting with cameras on the shirt
        buttons of officers. Nothing hidden about them-- they are obvious,
        but they capture video and audio.

        It's less than 10% of officers right now, but in some of the toughest
        neighborhoods, everyone is a lot more polite, and complaints against
        officers has gone down by nearly 50%.

        They are considering replacing the dash cams with these new button
        cameras, which I believe is a mistake-- But I'm certainly a fan of
        what they've accomplished up to this point, and would like to see
        them a bit more widespread.
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  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    I thought America was militarized already with the highest rate of gun ownership in the world.

    Number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Sure everybody would prefer to have a police force like the British where most police officers do not carry guns. But you can't have it both ways when the population is not only well armed but also have a history of committing crimes with fire arms. Switzerland and Finland are also well armed but they do not have a high crime rate. Still, their police must be ready.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

      Sure everybody would prefer to have a police force like the British where most police officers do not carry guns.
      Not for much longer with the growing gun problem over here.

      Or the knife problem for that matter.

      Officer Seizes 15-Inch Knife From Stairwell

      Mind you, the police dogs are bloody scary enough and I love dogs.
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      • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
        Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

        Not for much longer with the growing gun problem over here.

        Or the knife problem for that matter.

        Officer Seizes 15-Inch Knife From Stairwell

        Mind you, the police dogs are bloody scary enough and I love dogs.
        If you look at the crime figures in the UK compared to other countries, then its police force should have been fully armed ages ago. But there is a vocal section of the public that is heavily against it. There is a similar situation in many countries where women PCs did not carry guns. However, it seems that most do so now.
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        • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
          Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

          If you look at the crime figures in the UK compared to other countries, then its police force should have been fully armed ages ago. But there is a vocal section of the public that is heavily against it. There is a similar situation in many countries where women PCs did not carry guns. However, it seems that most do so now.
          Yup. Society here is not what it was. Manners are vanishing fast and crime is going up.

          A few months back I was approached at a cash point by 2 kids around 15/16 years old demanding I draw money out for them. Sadly, someone from my background and upbringing doesn't go out anymore with out a tool of ones own.

          Needless to say I walked back to my car with exactly the same amount of cash and cards as I did when I got to the cash point plus what I'd withdrawn for petrol.

          Personally I'm not against police being armed here. It's the nanny state that causes the issue. Although it's changed now, it wasn't long ago a burglar could break into your home and sue if he/she cut or injured themselves.

          Now you can do what you like so long as it's considered reasonable force.

          Anything in my book is reasonable if they're not invited in.

          Unless it was the people busting into the house in the OP.
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    • Profile picture of the author McMissKathy
      Steve,

      Its just one more step toward a militarized America. Any of the heavyweight shows you see online or on sattelite like Gov. Venturi's show have already been all over this subject.

      Recently, I heard that the Gov of SC is signing into law a bill to make it legal to carry firearms into bars. Seriously, do we need guns mixed with booze? They know sooner or later that some nut half drunk will get into it shooting another one but here we have another stupid law passed.

      We have these safety checks all over America now. It is really an illegal sort of entrapment or a front for a money racket really. Go through the road block, get busted for pot, no insurance or driving permit, you're in the tank, got a hefty fine, court cost, record and other worries.

      Peeps might joke about all the things they see and hear on news and radio but it is a coming and when it gets here, don't say you weren't warned!

      Remember 2008, when the economy free-falled? The clock is ticking again folks, the handwriting is already on the wall, it was told in revelation from the good book, and you're being warned through social outlets and radio programs.

      Us older ones might not see it but our kids or their kids will see some bad things that we talked about in our times come to past. Lock n load and get ready for a Storm is Coming!

      Kathy
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      • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
        Originally Posted by McMissKathy View Post

        We have these safety checks all over America now. It is really an illegal sort of entrapment or a front for a money racket really. Go through the road block, get busted for pot, no insurance or driving permit, you're in the tank, got a hefty fine, court cost, record and other worries.
        Forgive me Kathy, I'm sure I've missed something but assuming you're stopped by a road block chuffing away on a joint without insurance or even a permit to drive, are the police not obliged to take action?

        They seem to react quite heavily to credit card fraud.
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        • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
          Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

          Forgive me Kathy, I'm sure I've missed something but assuming you're stopped by a road block chuffing away on a joint without insurance or even a permit to drive, are the police not obliged to take action?

          They seem to react quite heavily to credit card fraud.
          The safety check in and of itself is the issue, Richard. You aren't stopped for probable cause. You're stopped simple because you're there. In essence, you shouldn't have been searched in the first place.

          Of course, you shouldn't be driving without a license or with a dime bag in your car either, but that's beside the point.
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          • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
            Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

            The safety check in and of itself is the issue, Richard. You aren't stopped for probable cause. You're stopped simple because you're there. In essence, you shouldn't have been searched in the first place.

            Of course, you shouldn't be driving without a license or with a dime bag in your car either, but that's beside the point.
            Yes I thought I may have missed something and you're quite right, I'd object to being stopped for no reason when there are enough imbeciles that need stopping. I can see why that causes issues.

            They do stop and search, or did, for knife crime here but people felt victimised etc. I know around Christmas they do random breath tests too but not particularly religiously, I've never even seen it happening.

            So these safety checks, are they quite frequent, I mean do you see them often? I would have thought the police had enough on their hands without doing that.
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            • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
              Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

              So these safety checks, are they quite frequent, I mean do you see them often? I would have thought the police had enough on their hands without doing that.
              It depends where you live. I only tend to see them around "drinking" holidays and they are usually announced ahead of time so you know to avoid a certain street, if you're paying attention. Still beside the point, though.
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              • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
                Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

                Still beside the point, though.
                Yes, yes it is...As I said earlier anyway, none of my business really.

                I was visiting my Uncle who lives way out in the sticks, miles from any town. Lovely place with lovely old 400+ year pubs and lovely lashings of beer.

                Anyway, he drove and after a few he recommended we get back. I thought we'd get a cab but he insisted he was safe to drive. I naively got in.

                As we were driving along the lanes we came to a policeman on his bike. My Uncle explained that's why he drove home. The only copper there rides a bicycle and he operates alone.

                It's a different world over here when you leave a city.
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                • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                  Of course, you shouldn't be driving without a license or with a dime bag in your car either, but that's beside the point.
                  ....or drunk....or without insurance if insurance is the law in your state

                  We have those checkpoints here around major holidays - not a lot but you might run into one every few months.

                  No one likes a checkpoint - it's an inconvenience. However, it's an "invasion" argument you won't win because drivers in compliance with the law have no sympathy for drivers who aren't.
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                  Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.

                  Sometimes the fear won't go away, so you'll have to do it afraid.
                  That's just the way it is.
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        • Profile picture of the author HeySal
          Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

          Forgive me Kathy, I'm sure I've missed something but assuming you're stopped by a road block chuffing away on a joint without insurance or even a permit to drive, are the police not obliged to take action?

          They seem to react quite heavily to credit card fraud.
          The problem in this, Richard, is that road blocks set up specifically to find people doing things wrong are illegal as it infringes on the right to travel freely without harassment. It also evades the law and right of "probable cause" and "innocent until proven guilty".

          I was caught in one such roadblock once where they were looking for people who were drinking and driving. It was 10 in the morning and I was very obviously sober - yet I was put through some physical sobriety tests and held for 20 minutes - at which point I got extremely pissed off because it was my 3 day vacation they were interrupting for no reason since I was doing nothing wrong and told them to either arrest me and take me in or I was leaving. Period. The let me go. They probably saw my lawyer's phone number flashing before my eyes. I've never been so angry at the way I was treated by police in my life. They knew full well I hadn't been drinking and held me anyways - they had a whole string of people being detained that were stone cold sober. It was all nothing but a damned power play. Our laws are supposed to protect us from this kind of shyte, and anymore - those laws are just completely ignored now, whether they are just talking to you or whether they decide it would be fun to tase you to death.
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          Sal
          When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
          Beyond the Path

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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by McMissKathy View Post

        Recently, I heard that the Gov of SC is signing into law a bill to make it legal to carry firearms into bars. Seriously, do we need guns mixed with booze? They know sooner or later that some nut half drunk will get into it shooting another one but here we have another stupid law passed.
        It's mother natures way of thinning the herd.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    BTW gestapo is actually a nick name!

    GEheimnis -- Secret
    STAt -- State (AKA FEDERAL)
    POlizei -- Police

    So the spirit of it is alive and well in the US.

    Steve
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