American footballer Michael Sam set to become NFL's first openly gay player

He's got guts and I respect that very much, but won't it be nice when you won't need such courage simply to be who you are?

Regards,
jim

I heard he dropped 70 slots in projections on where he'll go in the NFL draft.

ESPN's major draft guru Mel Kipper said he'd go in the mid 4th round. That would be around selection #105.

I thought that was a little low for a first team all American who lead the tough SEC in sacks and tackles for a loss and someone with his credentials should be one of the first 50 picks - unless he doesn't look all that great at the upcoming NFL combine.

This is very likely going to cost him money.

I'm not sure I'd like showering next to a dude who might like me. If it was a gal, that's one thing but a dude?

He will be a distraction until the team that drafts him gets firm with the meddlesome press to leave the issue alone.

I wish him well in all his endeavors.

I've never understood the need, after however many years of being famous for something, to announce ones sexual preferences.

What a famous football player does behind closed doors, be it gay or not, is of frank irrelevance to me.

Tom Daley a British diver recently felt the need to announce on YouTube that he was that way inclined. All I remember thinking was that I watched him dive at the Olympics, at no point did my mind wonder to him having sex with someone, so I didn't actually ever need to be informed that he liked it with chaps.

I'm not anti gay at all, I just don't need that level of info, because I don't need it if you're straight either.

Whatever though, at least he's happy.

We've got good people getting their asses shot off overseas every day in wars we should never have entered. And we never hear a word about it when they die for nothing but power and greed. We have actors that overdose on heroin and receive day after day of public empathy. We have people who are "courageous" because they publicly admit to their sexual orientation.

I firmly believe people should do what they want in their personal lives as long as they aren't hurting others. But I'm tired of hearing stuff like admitting you're gay is courageous while the public turns up their noses at those who really are, as they put their lives on the line every day for only God knows what purpose.

I understand your frustration TG. However, there are many kinds of courage. Please don't assume just because someone recognizes one kind of courage, they don't appreciate the courage of others. But from what I know of you from your posts, I'm going to assume you are not generalizing but speaking from personal experience. It's terribly sad and wrong that people put the politics behind conflicts before their willingness to recognize our brothers and sisters who risk their lives for us. As the son of a serviceman I have nothing but the upmost respect for those who serve their countries and to me their courage is absolutely unquestionable. My admiration and respect for them is without bounds.

However, that doesn't prevent me from recognizing the courage it takes to stand up to for example, disease, bigotry, hate, injustice (which includes political correctness run amok) or the child who stands up to a bully in the school yard and says "enough." There are many kinds of courage and appreciating one example does not mean one cannot repect the others. In fact, I would hope that recognizing one means you are more capable of seeing the courage in all.

Regards,
jim

exactly why i use bodywash in the shower, you do not have to worry about dropping the soap

Plenty of people admire the sacrifices that defence service personnel make. I am one of them. My salute and hat off to them.

I'm sure if a thread about their incredible courage was 'hijacked' with comments about how 'gay' people are not appreciated for their own acts of courage, there would be a huge uproar! Homophobia is still homophobia, doesn't matter how it is dressed up. Fire away troops.

As stated, I'm more interested in Michael Sam's football performances but I will tip my hat to him for courage displayed off the field too.

That is just another example of typical prejudice IMO.

David,

This is where the problem comes up for me. Hardraysnight made a joke and you smacked him with the nuke hammer . Is it in poor taste? I'll let each person decide, but the more we leap on people when they express themselves on such topics the more defensive they get and the less anyone learns. We need to talk more and judge less.

Joe, I'm perplexed as to how anyone is not allowing your freedom of opinion here in this discussion. I think it's pretty clear why the policy for the OTF does not allow politics or religion discussions -- people get very emotional and it's strife and drama the mods just don't want to bother with. As a former admin I can tell you that they have no interest in supressing opinions, they just don't want to deal with the drama.

Right now in Toronto we have a trainwreck of a mayor who's trying to use the issue of gay rights and the Olympics for his own political gain. It's rather disturbing. His issue is that along with dozens of other cities, we've raised the rainbow flag on what is called the courtesy flag pole -- where we often fly flags from such countries as Cuba or China and flags representing such groups as the Salvation Army and Autism. The flag was raised to show solidarity against the violent supression of the LGBT community in Russia.

He's repeatedly talked about this flag replacing the Canadian flag which is not true. The Canadian flag always flies on the main flag pole atop city hall -- this is the law. His agenda is rather clear, he's trying to sow discord and distract from a growing drug scandal which is overtaking him. He may also be trying to cater to a group of voters who oppose any LGBT equality.

I see politicians and activists doing this all the time. They pile it on...create controversy and then stand by smiling while the average person rips their hair out over one issue or another...and meanwhile the media makes a killing stirring the pot and even the losing politician gets a book deal or a reality show.

Regards,
jim

I can see how announcement like this might help those struggling with their sexuality. The more people make "it" mainstream the easier it will be on others down the road.

-g

@JimDucharme I didn't think this was a political discussion. More an example of a sportsman's revelation of personal details. Cheers.

Didn't I just get leapt on for expressing my opinion on said 'joke'? The dropping the soap bit suggests that Michael may be a 'threat' to fellow shower mates. Just expressing my opinion big guy.

I don't think it has anything to do with courage. I think it was a strategic career move. I believe he came out of the closet before someone opened the closet door on him.

Let's face it, it is always better to openly confess something than to get "busted" and get smeared all over the tabloids and in mainstream media as well. I'm quite confident he isn't the only one in the world who knows he's gay.

As for me, I believe what one does in private is their business, not mine.

That being said, I wish they would keep it private. I don't go around telling everyone what I do in the bedroom and don't want to know what others do in theirs.

Terra

As a combat veteran I like to think that one of the reasons I served was for the principle that all Americans should be able to be able to live their lives with the freedom to be who they are, openly and without fear of retaliation, regardless of their lifestyle choices.

Judgement is reserved for a higher power, whatever you perceive that to be. Live and let live.

Cheers. - Frank

Call me a cynic, but I can't help but think that money has more than a little to do with this whole media three-ring circus. It isn't about his playing ability any more. If he isn't drafted in the first few rounds, it'll be because he's gay rather than because he's a mediocre player by NFL standards. If he isn't offered a major multi-million dollar contract, it is because he's being discriminated against because of sexual preference instead of because he just isn't worth that much.

My guess is that his agent is behind much of this.

Football is not about gender its about passion, talent and skills like any other sports.

His college teammates were aware of his situation.

Elway applauds Michael Sam’s gay announcement | KDVR.com

I think this just happened...

Sam Wheeler, Kent State Wrestler, Suspended For Anti-Gay Tweets About Michael Sam

And here's a whole bunch of ugly tweets about Mr. Sam.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...ef=mostpopular

As long as people still get dragged to death behind pick up trucks or beaten, it IS important to educate that being homosexual is not a choice.

Peanut butter or chocolate? Can't decide. Thanks for Reece's Peanutbutter Cups.

I have not tried it yet, but there is a joint here that serves hamburgers with peanut butter.

Yep, almost there.

Just a l i t t l e bit further now...

I have nothing further to say on this topic either unless I'm personally attacked for stating my views as others have.

I'd like to request that the thread be locked.

Joe,

That's a rather odd thing to request. You complained about censorship and then you request this thread be locked?

There's been some trolling in this thread and personally I don't take that seriously. For the most part I've found this thread to be a worthwhile discussion. Just because I may not agree with your expressed views does not mean I have any issue with your faith or how it guides your life -- any more than I have an issue with how one's orientation guides their's. This is mutual respect and we could use a little more of that in this world in general.

Yes, you could quote scripture and yes, I and others could challenge you. However, that wouldn't change your mind or mine. Nor would there be any kind of finality -- a day later and the same discussion would pop up somewhere with, again, no result. There's no need to allow a discussion here or anywhere else to get you so bothered. People can disagree and still respect each other.

As I said before, we see these kind of issues hijacked by special interest (be they a politician or some group or activists) and they exploit it for their own agendas. We saw this with the Phil Robinson saga. They play it like a football game where the only thing that matters is their team wining and there is no middle ground.

IMO the reason that faith is so powerful is because the indivual is the only one whom can truly validate it. We won't know if we are right or wrong till it's too late to say to anyone, "I told you so." If we could validate faith while alive, it would have no value.

Regards,
jim

Unoddly, this seems to be ending all right.

Probably because I brought up Reese's cups to settle the issue. lol

thankfully it is not rugby

Yep, PB and J. I'm still trying to fathom the peanut butter and hamburger idea
that my local restaurant serves. I guess I could scrape off the PB if I don't like it.

Dan

Joe,

Doesn't matter what it means to you. Freedom of speech is not at issue here because of the context of this community being private. Don't go all Don Quixote here sir.

You're being a bit sensitive here. If Kay was attacking you, it would be like the Rebels vs the Death Star.

The very reason I'm not responding to your last comments (several of which I don't agree with) is because we all deserve to have all the hair we came into this thread with when we leave.

It's all good...it's almost maple syrup time here in Canada and we're about to win double gold in Olympic hockey so you can't piss off a Canuck right now.

Regards,
jim

Rasberry and chocolate - mmm
maple syrup and chocolate (or bacon) - mmm
maple syrup, chocolate, and coffee - really mmmmmm

Joe,

By the same token, I can't go on and on here about
my pantheistic beliefs and thoughts about organized
religion.

It would be unwise to do so and not likely to change a mind.

There's a time and place for everything. Just like trying to
convert me while I'm waiting tables or managing a restaurant
just is not practicable or wise.

Later tonight I am going to try that PB and hamburger/with
sweet potato fries. Followed by chocolate. Probably sooner.

Dan

Chocolate has noooooooo calories above the altitude
that deer become elk- about 8200 feet. Ya'll have to
visit sometime.

What was this thread about?

Dan

And a lot of teams won't mind because he's a great player.

Above I cited one reason for some woman turning gay is a rebellion against treatment by men and then they stayed gay.

Her are other reasons folks turn gay:

#1: Tomboy Phenomenon:

In the past quite a few gals grew up being tomboys. Most get over it but some do not and become gay for life.

I was informed of this by two hetero females who spoke of females they grew up with.


#2: Hanging Out:

Growing up (like from about 3 years old) boy spends most of his time hanging out with little girl(s) and guess what happens to some of them?

I know of this reason from family history.

This happened to a 1st cousin of mine and I bet it happened to plenty of guys who turned gay.

#3: The Sibling Effect:

Single girl or guy has many siblings of the other gender and it overwhelms them.

Attitudes can be transferred.


#4: Ugly Duckling Syndrome:

Some gals were never perceived as pretty growing up and at least a few turned to gayness for attention, love and companionship and have stayed that way.


It may not be a choice with most of them but a through examination of their backgrounds often discovers the reason(s) for them eventually going there and staying there.




BTW...

I want it made clear that I hold no ill will towards folks who engage that way and don't want any type of harm to come to them.

I wouldn't care if "sexual orientation" was added to the list of protected classes:

From Wikipedia:

Protected class - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In United States Federal anti-discrimination law, a protected class is a characteristic of a person which cannot be targeted for discrimination.

[1] The following characteristics are considered "Protected Classes" by Federal law:
Race – Civil Rights Act of 1964

Color – Civil Rights Act of 1964

Religion – Civil Rights Act of 1964

National origin – Civil Rights Act of 1964

Age (40 and over) – Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967

Sex – Equal Pay Act of 1963 and Civil Rights Act of 1964

Pregnancy – Pregnancy Discrimination Act

Citizenship – Immigration Reform and Control Act

Familial status – Civil Rights Act of 1968 Title VIII: Housing cannot discriminate for having children, with an exception for senior housing

Disability status – Vocational Rehabilitation and Other Rehabilitation Services of 1973 and Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990

Veteran status – Vietnam Era Veterans' Readjustment Assistance Act of 1974 and Uniformed Services Employment and Reemployment Rights Act

Genetic information – Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act

Dear Frank,

I hate spaghetti. Should I be worried about this?

Sincerely,
Pasta my prime in TO

It shouldn't really matter why people have the orientations they do. If we think about it as a choice than we feed into the mentality that it's something society can or even should change. We have to remember that while the most that kind of logic may do here is create animated discussion, in other locals, that mindset results in violence and persecution -- Russia being a good example of that.

We've seen what happens when minorities are targeted by governments seeking to scapegoat them and we do not speak up (Joe made reference to Nero's scapegoating of Christians for example). No matter what a personal opinion may be on anyone else, I think we can all agree that this is something we must not tolerate, most especially by lack of action.

I think it's good to keep in mind that if we don't at least fight this kind of thing on that principle alone, one day we may find ourselves among a minority facing the same violence and fear.

Regards,
jim

Dale Hansen has twice been named Sportscaster of the Year by the Associated Press:

I wish Mr Sam the best. I commend him for his courage to announce his choice of gender attraction. Good luck in the pro's and have a great career.

I'm not sure I consider Oprah.com to be a leading authority
on matters of science and biology? And I certainly don't
consider it a legitimate rebuttal against the many actual
studies done on the subject.

Especially after starting that article, which I admittedly could
not force myself to read in its entirety.