Seek the high ground to survive? Ask Custer.

by coop47
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We may never know exactly what happened at The Little Big Horn Battle but we do know who won and who lost that day, the 25th of June, 1876 in remote Montana Territory. In hindsight, the spreading out of his resources was Custer's downfall. Impetuous, a bull in a china shop, he took the offensive, seeking a bloody victory. His strategy didn't pan out. Perhaps he was killed early in the offensive at the Medicine Tail Coulee Ford as some scholars think, the 'strategy' then falling to others. Sometimes it pays to scatter your eggs while at other times it is wise to keep them in the same basket. Custer scattered his eggs (his 5 companies....F,E,L,I,C) and gambled on routing a far superior numerical force. It could have been quite the victory for him. It became a terrible defeat.
It often pays to be somewhat cautious. The high ground was the place to be that day but only if you had one basket. Custer's men cluttered the battlefield going from stable offense to abrupt unstable defense.
Life really is a crap shoot. Is there a lesson to be gleaned here concerning your approach to life? Yes. Outcomes are never certain. Not to have made a mistake in life means never to have tried. What is your comfort level? Are you a bull in a china shop, an overly cautious, slow plodder, or somewhere in the middle? Before entering 'battle' be prepared for victory or defeat. Nothing is certain. Prepare by uncluttering your world (both physically and mentally) and stay within your comfort zone. 'Circe the wagons' if need be, but do it only after reaching the high ground and remain stable. Focus. It is all about risk and its management. Victory or defeat? Only those who don't try are truly defeated.
  • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
    Sorry, but I couldn't concentrate on your post because I could only think of chocolate covered custard eclairs. Yum!







    Terra
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    • Profile picture of the author taskemann
      Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

      Sorry, but I couldn't concentrate on your post because I could only think of chocolate covered custard eclairs. Yum!







      Terra
      Those look delicious Terra. Is that pastry filled with vanilla cream?

      Edit: The big G' helped me figuring it out.
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      • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
        Originally Posted by taskemann View Post

        Those look delicious Terra. Is that pastry filled with vanilla cram?

        Edit: The big G' helped me figuring it out.
        So you know it's custard in them there eclairs, right?


        Terra
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        • Profile picture of the author taskemann
          Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

          So you know it's custard in them there eclairs, right?


          Terra
          Yup. Pastry filled with vanilla cream = custard filled eclairs, right?
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          • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
            Originally Posted by taskemann View Post

            Yup. Pastry filled with vanilla cream = custard filled eclairs, right?
            Yes, although there are a variety of custard flavors. Vanilla cream is my favorite though.

            Terra
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            • Profile picture of the author JimDucharme
              Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

              Yes, although there are a variety of custard flavors. Vanilla cream is my favorite though.

              Terra
              The awesomeness is strong with this one.
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

      Sorry, but I couldn't concentrate on your post because I could only think of chocolate covered custard eclairs. Yum!

      Terra
      JEEZ Terra. LMAO - you need to touch up a little - the blond roots are showing. :rolleyes:

      Custer made a few mistakes. He underestimated his competition - and he forgot about home field advantage. Those indians hunted herd game for centuries before he or his crew ever stepped foot on that land - they knew how to split and corner the herds. If the Indians were that scary, he should have let them hit the home playing field before tangling with them.
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      • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        JEEZ Terra. LMAO - you need to touch up a little - the blond roots are showing. :rolleyes:
        LOL! I can't help it, hearing about General Custer always has made me think of custard. That's probably why I didn't fare so well in Mr. Beardon's eighth grade history class. :p

        Terra
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  • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
    There are a lot of theories surrounding Custer's last stand.

    A couple of things that you can conclude though.

    1. He wasn't better prepared than his opponent that day.

    2. He underestimated his opponent's willingness to fight.

    Those are poor qualities in a leader.
    It cost him and most of his men, their lives.


    I think a better general to study is Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson.
    His ability to inspire and motivate, while driving his troops relentlessly
    across the Shenandoah Valley, is the stuff of legends.

    The Union never had a general who could match him.
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    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by Ron Lafuddy View Post

      There are a lot of theories surrounding Custer's last stand.

      A couple of things that you can conclude though.

      1. He wasn't better prepared than his opponent that day.

      2. He underestimated his opponent's willingness to fight.

      Those are poor qualities in a leader.
      It cost him and most of his men, their lives.


      I think a better general to study is Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson.
      His ability to inspire and motivate, while driving his troops relentlessly
      across the Shenandoah Valley, is the stuff of legends.

      The Union never had a general who could match him.
      You're entitled.

      I think the Union had at least 3 and they are Grant, Sherman and even Mead.
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      • Profile picture of the author lcombs
        Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

        You're entitled.

        I think the Union had at least 3 and they are Grant, Sherman and even Mead.
        Jackson was one of, if not the best general in the war.

        However, Richards was quite possibly as good. As were Grant and Sherman.

        Lee is, undoubtedly, the most over rated military leader in history.

        The Union invaded Lee on his own turf with his troops well entrenched.
        Granted, the Union generals were poor. Even though they attacked across open fields with their troops in close quarters, they still could have won the day simply through shear numbers. But, they feared bad press over enormous losses, so they with held reserve divisions that would have meant victory for the Union.

        But, when Lee invaded the north, he put his in the same position.
        Attacking well entrenched troops, on the high ground, across open fields.
        While Longstreet begged Lee too withdraw and circle around the Union troops,
        Lee refused on the grounds that he would not withdraw in the face of the enemy.
        Longstreet argued that they were not withdrawing. They were repositioning and would place themselves between the Union troops and Washing and, thereby, force the Union to fight their, (the Confederates), terms.

        Lee's army was destroyed.
        And it was only by the sake of torrential rains and Meades slow reaction that allowed the Confederates to retreat into safety and regroup.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kurt
          Originally Posted by lcombs View Post


          Lee is, undoubtedly, the most over rated military leader in history.
          A few years ago, I actually posted a thread about this subject, but it didn't draw any interest.

          IMO, Napoleon was the most overrated general in history. Sure, he had some great strategies and impressive victories, but:

          He lost his entire navy in Egypt.

          He had an epic fail in Russia.

          He was beaten at Waterloo by Wellington.

          Wellington on the other hand was undefeated in his career. He won numerous battles in India. He beat Napoleon's troops (without Napolean) in Spain (or was it Portugual?) and defeated Napoleon at Waterloo.

          I'm really not sure why Napoleon is remembered in history, while Wellington seems to be an afterthought?
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          • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
            Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

            I'm really not sure why Napoleon is remembered in history, while Wellington seems to be an afterthought?
            Because the old saying that history is written by the
            winning side is not always true?
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          • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
            Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

            A few years ago, I actually posted a thread about this subject, but it didn't draw any interest.

            IMO, Napoleon was the most overrated general in history. Sure, he had some great strategies and impressive victories, but:

            He lost his entire navy in Egypt.

            He had an epic fail in Russia.

            He was beaten at Waterloo by Wellington.

            Wellington on the other hand was undefeated in his career. He won numerous battles in India. He beat Napoleon's troops (without Napolean) in Spain (or was it Portugual?) and defeated Napoleon at Waterloo.

            I'm really not sure why Napoleon is remembered in history, while Wellington seems to be an afterthought?
            I'm not sure he was one of the most overrated generals in history but he sure made a couple of giant blunders.

            When he occupied Egypt the guns from his fleet were docked and turned inward to intimidate the natives but he should have had at least some of his guns pointing seaward just in case the Brits arrived - which they did.

            Maybe there was something else he could have done since I think the natives were pretty much under control.

            It was a great move by the Brits and very sloppy planning by Napoleon which cost him dearly.

            Of course he should have never messed with the Ruskies in the first place.

            During the French revolution the other powers of Europe decided to see if they could take advantage of the chaotic situation in France and...

            Napoleon should have been happy with just making sure others simply left France alone but that wasn't enough for him and the rest is history.

            I'll discount Wellington's victories over the Indians since I have the feeling they were not equipped with the best weapons of the day.

            But that was a nice trick of Wellingtons' - to hide men in the folds of the of the hills of Waterloo before that battle.

            Wellington is remembered!

            I had and enjoyed Beef Wellington when I visited the UK...




            ...and of course I just had to have a napoleon pastry when I visited France.



            Napoleon's battle strategies and tactics are still taught at West Point - I think.

            All The Best!!
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            • Profile picture of the author Kurt
              Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

              I'm not sure he was one of the most overrated generals in history but he sure made a couple of giant blunders.
              Since Napoleon is widely regarded by many to be one of the greatest military leaders of all time, I believe you just made my point for me.

              Did Attila, Khan, Alexander or Hannibal make similar blunders?

              I'll discount Wellington's victories over the Indians since I have the feeling they were not equipped with the best weapons of the day.
              Do you discount Ali's victories over boxers like Chuck Wepner?


              But that was a nice trick of Wellingtons' - to hide men in the folds of the of the hills of Waterloo before that battle.
              Wellington knew the land of Waterloo very well. He had planned for battle there decades before he fought Napleon. Wellington had Nappy right where he wanted him.

              Napoleon's battle strategies and tactics are still taught at West Point - I think.

              All The Best!!
              As I posted above, Nappy did create great strategies, such as divide and conquer. However, trekking into Russia without established supply lines is a mistake Alexander would have never made. Alexander was very aware of the need for supply lines and would pass up conquests if the supply lines were lacking.
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              • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
                Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                Alexander was very aware of the need for supply lines and would pass up conquests if the supply lines were lacking.
                You finished it.

                Paul Myers started it when he talked about distribution channels.

                You just provided the other clue.

                Obvious as heck in warfare, if you know where to look.

                Translated into marketing, every great marketing strategy needs a great logistical infrastructure. Its so obvious and self evident, but easy to overlook.

                I wonder how it would look like a math equation... Velocity of Marketing = Strategy x Logistics? It may need some polishing and refinement.

                The great product launch experts do seem to be Machiavellian experts of logistics manipulation.

                Oh well, time to get some shut-eye.
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              • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                Since Napoleon is widely regarded by many to be one of the greatest military leaders of all time, I believe you just made my point for me.

                Did Attila, Khan, Alexander or Hannibal make similar blunders?



                Do you discount Ali's victories over boxers like Chuck Wepner?




                Wellington knew the land of Waterloo very well. He had planned for battle there decades before he fought Napleon. Wellington had Nappy right where he wanted him.



                As I posted above, Nappy did create great strategies, such as divide and conquer. However, trekking into Russia without established supply lines is a mistake Alexander would have never made. Alexander was very aware of the need for supply lines and would pass up conquests if the supply lines were lacking.
                You said...

                Did Attila, Khan, Alexander or Hannibal make similar blunders?

                I say...

                Not that I know of.


                You said...

                Do you discount Ali's victories over boxers like Chuck Wepner?

                I say...

                No, not really big they were no great accomplishment either.

                - I'm blown away that Wellington had planned the battle of Waterloo years ago.

                - According to the movie, Attila was poisoned and the same may be true for Alexander.

                - The original Khan fell sick & died or the horde may have reached the Atlantic.

                I read they were all the way east - close to Budapest but the leaders of Western Europe were amassing a coalition to challenge the threat.

                - After about 20 years of hanging around northern Italy, Hannibal was defeated by superior Roman numbers.

                Hannibal was also sent into exile like Nappy. And I heard that thanks to Nap, most Europeans drive on the proper side of the road making it easy for Americans to drive around Europe.


                Question???

                Can Napoleon get into your top ten list of greatest military leaders? - if you were forced to make a list?


                TL



                Ps. Its been a bloody little planet.
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                • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                  Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                  You said...

                  Hannibal was also sent into exile like Nappy. And I heard that thanks to Nap, most Europeans drive on the proper side of the road making it easy for Americans to drive around Europe.
                  I believe Hannibal was in hiding rather than in exile.



                  Can Napoleon get into your top ten list of greatest military leaders? - if you were forced to make a list?
                  No. You can't lose your entire navy AND your entire army later based on nothing but bad decisions (not facing superior forces ) and make my top 10.

                  My top 10 would probably be something like:

                  Alexander
                  Hannibal
                  Ghengis Khan
                  Cyrus
                  Attila
                  Julius Caesar
                  Wellington (who never makes anyone's top list)
                  Patton (was the one guy the Nazis really feared and were always preparing for)
                  Rommel (Monty only beat him due to overwhelming forces)
                  Sun Tzu (wrote a good book on war, so I'm guessing he was pretty good LOL)



                  Ps. Its been a bloody little planet.
                  Yep. We are the descendants of the survivors.
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                  • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
                    Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                    My top 10 would probably be something like:

                    Alexander
                    Hannibal
                    Ghengis Khan
                    Cyrus
                    Attila
                    Julius Caesar
                    Wellington (who never makes anyone's top list)
                    Patton (was the one guy the Nazis really feared and were always preparing for)
                    Rommel (Monty only beat him due to overwhelming forces)
                    Sun Tzu (wrote a good book on war, so I'm guessing he was pretty good LOL)

                    Napoleon had his horrible blunders, but he also had some
                    brilliant victories. No one else in Europe at the time was
                    able to use mobility as a weapon so well as he.
                    In fact, I would argue that his major blunders were mostly
                    due to his lack of strong logistics-- The strategies he attempted
                    to apply were sound, but the ability of his men to follow them
                    was not.

                    I also might put Chingiss Kahn on par with Alexander, if
                    not above him. Under his guidance, the Golden Horde became
                    the most mobile military force in the history of the world,
                    and not even the technology of today can match his ability
                    to move them so far on such short notice. With the exception
                    of a couple of losses to Japan-- which were pure luck, really--
                    they had few solid defeats.
                    In addition, he knew well the power of rumors in getting his
                    enemies to surrender in fear, and like Alexander even made
                    allowances for those he conquered. For example, for the Mongols
                    it was a crime punishable by death to soil water, but he allowed
                    the Arabs under his rule to continue their practice of washing
                    themselves and their feet multiple times per day.

                    As for Sun Tzu, I memorized The Art of War when I was 15,
                    shortly after The Book of Five Rings. The fact that the book
                    has lasted for 25 centuries (2,500 years!!) as a manual on
                    military strategy certain says a lot. But he did blunder, failing
                    to follow his own advice, and met a gruesome end... I might
                    give his spot in the top 10 to Cao Cao instead, who could also
                    make the list as one of the most influential people in human
                    history, but more importantly has a ton of solid experience,
                    rather than a compilation of general knowledge.

                    I would also like to point out that while Montgomery would
                    never be mistaken for the courageous type who could adapt
                    and adjust at will, if you gave him time to calculate and plan
                    he was extremely effective-- The reason the forces against
                    Rommel at El Alamein were "overwhelming" is because he
                    gave Montgomery so much time to stack advantages against
                    him. If Rommel hadn't hesitated, allowing Monty to position
                    himself so that the terrain nullified his favored attacks, the
                    battle may have ended in a completely different manner.

                    I'm also not sure why so many people ignore Wellington,
                    who was one of the most experienced and successful
                    generals of his time? Probably has something to do with
                    the love of Napoleon, whose politics were far more popular
                    even after they were both no longer relevant?
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                    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                      Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

                      Napoleon had his horrible blunders, but he also had some
                      brilliant victories. No one else in Europe at the time was
                      able to use mobility as a weapon so well as he.
                      In fact, I would argue that his major blunders were mostly
                      due to his lack of strong logistics-- The strategies he attempted
                      to apply were sound, but the ability of his men to follow them
                      was not.
                      I said twice above that Nappy had some great strategies. And he did have some amazing victories. But so did everyone else on my list. These types of conversations are subjective and not sure why you would want to argue.

                      However, logistics and understanding supply lines is a vital part of being a great military leader.

                      It was Nappy's decision to leave his navy unprotected, not a failing of his men. It was also Nappy's choice to enter Russia and his men didn't fail him, nature and his lack of planning did.

                      At Waterloo, the Prussians backtracked to help Wellington. Nappy discovered this pretty early on in the battle. He had a chance to retreat and fight another day, but his ego told him he could still win. Not a good decision.

                      In war, there is no "trying". Being captured twice, losing your entire navy and 400,000 men in Russia isn't something I can get over.


                      I would also like to point out that while Montgomery would
                      never be mistaken for the courageous type who could adapt
                      and adjust at will, if you gave him time to calculate and plan
                      he was extremely effective-- The reason the forces against
                      Rommel at El Alamein were "overwhelming" is because he
                      gave Montgomery so much time to stack advantages against
                      him. If Rommel hadn't hesitated, allowing Monty to position
                      himself so that the terrain nullified his favored attacks, the
                      battle may have ended in a completely different manner.
                      I attribute these shortcomings to Hitler and not Rommel. Hitler hung Rommel out to dry in Africa and rejected Rommel's request for more tanks. Rommel was at a big disadvantage against Monty, with few tanks and little tank fuel. IIRC, Rommel had 125 tanks and Monty had his own plus 800 from the US.

                      I believe Rommel's plan for attack was one of "it's our only chance" as opposed to it being a true plan for victory.

                      In his war journal, Rommel wrote:

                      “When one comes to consider that supplies and materiel are the decisive factor in modern warfare, it was already becoming clear that a catastrophe was looming on the distant horizon for my army. The British were doing all they possibly could to gain control of the situation. With wondrous speed, they organized the shipment of fresh troops into the Alamein position...Our one and only chance to overrun the remains of the British Eighth Army and occupy the east Egyptian desert at a stroke was irretrievably lost.”
                      Then, compare Monty's results to the results Patton got in Africa...I'd bet everything I own the Nazis would choose to face Monty over Patton every time.
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                      • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
                        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                        These types of conversations are subjective and not sure why you would want to argue.
                        Yes they are. Not actually "argue", that was just a phrase.
                        I just love the subject, especially in the rare instance that
                        someone knows the information AND has their own opinions,
                        rather than parroting text books and teachers.

                        I also agree 100% with everything else you said... I'm off to
                        an event but I'll try to make time to add more later.
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                      • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
                        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                        However, logistics and understanding supply lines is a vital part of being a great military leader.
                        That is where your brilliance showed through. I was always asking myself, "how is logistics integrated with a strategy?" There are such things as dumb questions, and my mind was spinning for a long time trying to come up with the answer.

                        You can have a great strategy without logistics, it'll just fail, like life without food or water.
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                        • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                          Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                          Earl Flynn also played Custer in the movie "She wore a yellow ribbon".

                          If Earyl Flynn stopped looking in the mirror every 5 seconds then history would have been very different!


                          Shane
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                      • Originally Posted by David Maschke View Post

                        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                        However, logistics and understanding supply lines is a vital part of being a great military leader.
                        That is where your brilliance showed through. I was always asking myself, "how is logistics integrated with a strategy?" There are such things as dumb questions, and my mind was spinning for a long time trying to come up with the answer.

                        You can have a great strategy without logistics, it'll just fail, like life without food or water.
                        An army is like a snake: each one travels on its stomach.
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              • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
                Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                However, trekking into Russia without established supply lines is a mistake Alexander would have never made. Alexander was very aware of the need for supply lines and would pass up conquests if the supply lines were lacking.
                That was part of the Russian blunder. The other part was trying to fight a war on two fronts (east and west), the very thing that resulted in the collapse of the German effort in WWII.
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        • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
          Originally Posted by lcombs View Post

          Jackson was one of, if not the best general in the war.

          However, Richards was quite possibly as good. As were Grant and Sherman.

          Lee is, undoubtedly, the most over rated military leader in history.

          The Union invaded Lee on his own turf with his troops well entrenched.
          Granted, the Union generals were poor. Even though they attacked across open fields with their troops in close quarters, they still could have won the day simply through shear numbers. But, they feared bad press over enormous losses, so they with held reserve divisions that would have meant victory for the Union.

          But, when Lee invaded the north, he put his in the same position.
          Attacking well entrenched troops, on the high ground, across open fields.
          While Longstreet begged Lee too withdraw and circle around the Union troops,
          Lee refused on the grounds that he would not withdraw in the face of the enemy.
          Longstreet argued that they were not withdrawing. They were repositioning and would place themselves between the Union troops and Washing and, thereby, force the Union to fight their, (the Confederates), terms.

          Lee's army was destroyed.
          And it was only by the sake of torrential rains and Meades slow reaction that allowed the Confederates to retreat into safety and regroup.
          From everything I've seen and read about the battle of Gettysburg, Lee's army wasn't destroyed but the loss of manpower and the battle wasn't very helpful to their cause.

          But...

          Mead certainly proved he was no Grant as Grant would have immediately engaged Lee all the way back into Virginia and some.

          I also read that Lee wasn't pumped up to be a super general until the 20 year anniversary of the war came around - that's when it began.

          I never understood why Lee launched Pickett's charge trying to cross 1400 yards of open field.

          I don't know which was worse in terms of devastation - Pickett's charge or the charge of the light brigade by the Brits when they were trying to mess with the Russians.

          I just remembered, the Brits received another pretty through butt kicking at the battle of New Orleans.
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          • Profile picture of the author lcombs
            Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

            From everything I've seen and read about the battle of Gettysburg, Lee's army wasn't destroyed but the loss of manpower and the battle wasn't very helpful to their cause.

            But...

            Mead certainly proved he was no Grant as Grant would have immediately engaged Lee all the way back into Virginia and some.

            I also read that Lee wasn't pumped up to be a super general until the 20 year anniversary of the war came around - that's when it began.

            I never understood why Lee launched Pickett's charge trying to cross 1400 yards of open field.

            I don't know which was worse in terms of devastation - Pickett's charge or the charge of the light brigade by the Brits when they were trying to mess with the Russians.

            I just remembered, the Brits received another pretty through butt kicking at the battle of New Orleans.
            True. Lee's army wasn't totally destroyed.
            But, the losses were enormous.
            Meade was slow to act, but Lee had a head start by moving at night.
            Lee barely escaped only because he was able to cross the Potomac before it flooded from the torential rain which stopped the Union troops.
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            • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
              Originally Posted by lcombs View Post

              True. Lee's army wasn't totally destroyed.
              But, the losses were enormous.

              Meade was slow to act, but Lee had a head start by moving at night.
              Lee barely escaped only because he was able to cross the Potomac before it flooded from the torential rain which stopped the Union troops.
              So Lee did a Washington by escaping at night uh?


              BTW...

              If the union lost the battle of Gettysburg and if Lee had gone even further north, Lincoln may not have won reelection and his opponent Mccellan, said if elected he would end the war and would allow the south to succeed.
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  • Profile picture of the author JimDucharme
    How you react to any given situation is the only real control you have in this life.

    Regards,
    jim
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  • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
    It's been many years since I've studied that battle.

    I'm only going on memory, but if it serves me correctly he failed to do an adequate reconnaissance mission and gather the facts before acting.

    Rommel, from what I read, loved to do reconnaissance missions, and was able to lead from the front by quickly taking advantage of enemy weaknesses before the opportunity closed.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lloyd Buchinski
    Custer, custard? Somehow this whole topic is sticking together.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    >Seek the high ground to survive?

    Highly recommended, especially in a lightning storm or tornado.
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  • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
    The high ground wasn't all that high and there was not much cover to speak of. From what I've read, a good book on the battle decades ago, Custer's Achilles heel was his massive ego. That probably was the root of his poor command decisions more than anything else, imo. I suppose sometimes it can serve well but eventually burning the candle at both ends catches up with you.

    On that day, he was in way over his head for the reasons Sal mentioned. Custer was in someone elses back yard and they knew exactly what to do.
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
    Custer's last words?
    "How many Indians could there be?"

    Last words of his men?
    "All of them!"
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  • Now you have me thinking of the film Santa Fe Trail, in which Reagan played Custer.
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    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by Hopeless Bromantic View Post

      Now you have me thinking of the film Santa Fe Trail, in which Reagan played Custer.

      Earl Flynn also played Custer in the movie "She wore a yellow ribbon".
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by Hopeless Bromantic View Post

        Now you have me thinking of the film Santa Fe Trail, in which Reagan played Custer.
        Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

        Earl Flynn also played Custer in the movie "She wore a yellow ribbon".
        And Richard Mulligan in "Little Big Man":

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        • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          And Richard Mulligan in "Little Big Man":

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2eG0RymMyU
          If Dustin Hoffman was in the movie I think I saw it a long time ago.
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          • Profile picture of the author Kurt
            Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

            If Dustin Hoffman was in the movie I think I saw it a long time ago.
            Yep.

            Little Big Man may be my favorite movie of all time.
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            • Profile picture of the author lcombs
              Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

              Yep.

              Little Big Man may be my favorite movie of all time.
              Amen.
              I particularly like the scene where his Indian Grandfather decides "It's a good day to die."

              He says all of his goodbyes and climbs to the top of the hill where he lies down to die.
              When it starts raining he changes his mind and decides it's a good to day and goes back down the hill to rejoin the tribe.
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              • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                Originally Posted by lcombs View Post

                Amen.
                I particularly like the scene where his Indian Grandfather decides "It's a good day to die."

                He says all of his goodbyes and climbs to the top of the hill where he lies down to die.
                When it starts raining he changes his mind and decides it's a good to day and goes back down the hill to rejoin the tribe.
                I post a running joke on this forum "you'll laugh, you'll cry" and every time I do, I think of Little Big Man. And the "It's a good day to die" scene is classic and you'll laugh, you'll cry in that scene alone.

                The movie has everything, humor, tragedy, history, scenery, a great story and great acting with Dustin Hoffman, Richard Mulligan, Martin Balsam, Chief Dan George, Faye Dunaway.

                Plus, it's considered the first Hollywood movie/western using a point of view of Native Americans and showing them in a sympathetic light.

                It's a very underrated movie...
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                • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                  That's one of those movies I have always wanted to see but never have. Seeing your post here led me to read about the movie and now I'll definitely make a point to see it soon. I also learned a new word to describe the genre: Picaresque.

                  Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                  I post a running joke on this forum "you'll laugh, you'll cry" and every time I do, I think of Little Big Man. And the "It's a good day to die" scene is classic and you'll laugh, you'll cry in that scene alone.

                  The movie has everything, humor, tragedy, history, scenery, a great story and great acting with Dustin Hoffman, Richard Mulligan, Martin Balsam, Chief Dan George, Faye Dunaway.

                  Plus, it's considered the first Hollywood movie/western using a point of view of Native Americans and showing them in a sympathetic light.

                  It's a very underrated movie...
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                  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                    Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                    That's one of those movies I have always wanted to see but never have. Seeing your post here led me to read about the movie and now I'll definitely make a point to see it soon. I also learned a new word to describe the genre: Picaresque.
                    It's a movie with a lot of "layers". It even addresses respect for gays (in a humorous way), which I haven't seen in many westerns. LOL

                    The plot is about a 121 year old man being interviewed about his life in the wild west, and probably "embellishing" a story or two. I'd say the theme is about trying to "fit in".
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  • Profile picture of the author lcombs
    Custer finished last in class at Westpoint.

    Having led a division of cavalry at The Battle of Gettysburg
    it's amazing that he would lead his troops into an obvious ambush at The Little Big Horn.

    He was experienced and served under the best military leaders of the Union Army.
    Buford's cavalry met Heth's division west of Gettysburg and eventually established a defensive position on the High Ground.

    After Richard's was killed early on, Hancock took charge of the Union forces
    masterfully positioning his troops in the most strategic areas and moving them to meet
    Lee's attacks from one side to the other.

    Yet, at The Little Big Horn, Custer followed a small, "baiting" band of Sioux and Cheyenne
    warriors into an open territory surrounded by 1,000s of Sioux and Cheyenne waiting on the hills above.
    An incredibly stupid mistake by an experience General.
    He was strongly advised against it by his seconds but ignored them.

    It was definitely his massive ego and lust for glory that led him and his men
    to slaughter.
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by lcombs View Post

      Custer finished last in class at Westpoint.

      Having led a division of cavalry at The Battle of Gettysburg
      it's amazing that he would lead his troops into an obvious ambush at The Little Big Horn.

      He was experienced and served under the best military leaders of the Union Army.
      Buford's cavalry met Heth's division west of Gettysburg and eventually established a defensive position on the High Ground.

      After Richard's was killed early on, Hancock took charge of the Union forces
      masterfully positioning his troops in the most strategic areas and moving them to meet
      Lee's attacks from one side to the other.

      Yet, at The Little Big Horn, Custer followed a small, "baiting" band of Sioux and Cheyenne
      warriors into an open territory surrounded by 1,000s of Sioux and Cheyenne waiting on the hills above.

      An incredibly stupid mistake by an experience General.
      He was strongly advised against it by his seconds but ignored them.

      It was definitely his massive ego and lust for glory that led him and his men
      to slaughter.
      Indians learned that from coyotes. Those men were not idiots. They watched how things were done in nature and copied that way. Where we got over was that we diseased some of them, killed women and children, thinning the numbers becoming adults and warriors, brought more deadly weapons. If it had been bow and arrow to bow and arrow, we wouldn't have stood a chance.
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  • Profile picture of the author lcombs
    Regarding the Civil War;

    Most of the historical accounts of the Civil War are focused on Lee, and
    the Union Army of The Potomic.

    There are a few battles noted on the western front.
    Shilo is one of them.
    Which, by the way, was fought at the same time as Gettysburg.

    But, the point is, while of the historical focus is on the Battles in the East, Grant and Sherman were kicking Confederate butt in the west.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
    Best post ever, Kurt, in the history of the warrior forum. I wanted to keep reading.

    I always wondered, did Napoleon have a chance during has comeback tour after exile, or was it just a matter of time and his enemies too great in number to ever conquer Europe the second time around?
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by David Maschke View Post

      Best post ever, Kurt, in the history of the warrior forum. I wanted to keep reading.

      I always wondered, did Napoleon have a chance during has comeback tour after exile, or was it just a matter of time and his enemies too great in number to ever conquer Europe the second time around?
      This is a tough question, but I'd guess Lil Nappy would have had some major victories, but his ego and the number of his enemies would have resulted in another catastrophic loss somewhere/sometime.

      One thing about Napoleon wetend to forget is how much he helped the US against the Brits. He was our biggest ally.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Mike - where are you from? I detect a tad of Mid-western redneck?

    Ya know..........smart rednecks are not people to mess with.

    Yes, it was a compliment.

    Anyhow - I love the quote in your sig - and Paul, if you are reading this.....damned stunning piece of thought. I'm sending it to FB. I know my friends will love it. Well, thought, well written. Curtsey.
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