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ET: Drone home!

by Paul Myers
22 replies
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    That's OK, but if they wanted to really impress me they should deliver popcorn and a coke with the movies.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      The video had me going for a minute.
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        The video had me going for a minute.
        I loved the "plague of locusts" imagery at the end.
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    • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      That's OK, but if they wanted to really impress me they should deliver popcorn and a coke with the movies.
      JV with Domino's coming soon.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    This is great news - free movies for anyone with a bullet or slingshot.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
    I am thinking... "A real psychic would call me first"

    Nope. Phones not ringing.
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  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    It would simply be completely irresponsible if it gets off the ground. I hope the FAA will quickly pull the plug and another other similar enterprises. The "drones" in question are $499 "hobby grade" DJI Phantoms. They are completely unsuitable for commercial and industrial use and have a number of quality problems.

    The most notorious of which is the "flyaway". So basically the drone would fly away on its own and it could ending hitting a car or person and killing someone, or even bringing down a commercial airliner. It is absolutely ridiculously for Netflix to consider using such a low quality machine. In fact, I don't think any drone services should be approved at all. If it brings down a commercial airliner, then Netflix would deserved to be sued to bankruptcy.

    The "Phantom Flyaway Poll" thread - RC Groups

    RC Groups - View Poll Results

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    • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
      Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

      It would simply be completely irresponsible if it gets off the ground. I hope the FAA will quickly pull the plug. The "drones" in question are $499 "hobby grade" DJI Phantoms. They are completely unsuitable for commercial and industrial use and have a number of quality problems. The most notorious of which is the "flyaway". So basically the drone would fly away on its own and it could ending hitting a car or person and killing someone. It is absolutely ridiculously for Netflix to consider using such a low quality machine. If it brings down a commercial airliner, then Netflix would deserved to be sued to bankruptcy.

      The "Phantom Flyaway Poll" thread - RC Groups
      I don't think Netflix is going to use those drones from what I understand. Rumor has it they will use the ones that use a rubber band as its power source for the propellers. Green energy and renewable power source and all. It's a real pain on the fingers.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Ummm... Derek?

    You DO realize that was a spoof, right?
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    I never heard of fly away, but most of these are fully opensource, or based on it, and could easily be modified. And $500 is a LOT to pay, even at retail.

    But yeah, controlling a large number, at a large distance, with human intervention, and security DO make it impractical for now.

    I liked the video though.

    BTW Netflix has little reason to do this anyway. They could have people download it.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
      Paul, I did thought it was a bit strange for Netflix to offer this service. But there are a lot of other companies thinking of doing it. I am into rc helicopters and this is a very important issue to us. It was mostly a safe hobby until three people were killed by helicopters last year. But our main concern are the so call "personal drones" where some of the owners are flying very irresponsibly. There are videos of these flying up to 3000 ft in a built up area near an airport. The RC modelling community is very concerned that soon we will have a spate of accidents that will lead to a huge backlash and draconian controls.

      Steve, it is true that there is a lot of open source firmware around. But none are as good as the controllers and firmware made by DJI systems and they are not open source. In fact, DJI systems is reported to control well over half the market for high end hobbiest and commercial drones as far back as two years ago. It is unlikely that any commercial operator would risk their business on brands other than DJI.

      It is a Chinese owned and based company and there are a complaints about them being very secretive and providing little support for their products. DJI never made a statement or gave any explanation about these flyaway incidents. It seems that most if not all involved a camera being attached and that might have interfered with the GPS sensors. I have to point out though that the flyaway issue involve their cheapest product i.e. the DJI Phantom only.

      But right now, the lead and lock that DJI has over this sector is so great that I cannot see any other company challenging it in the short to medium term.

      Derek
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      • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
        They would probably try to implement something like this long before they even consider simply licensing and adding more titles to their streaming inventory..

        I did get Breaking Bad and Lillyhammer out of Netflix, so all in all not too bad...
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

        Paul, I did thought it was a bit strange for Netflix to offer this service. But there are a lot of other companies thinking of doing it. I am into rc helicopters and this is a very important issue to us. It was mostly a safe hobby until three people were killed by helicopters last year. But our main concern are the so call "personal drones" where some of the owners are flying very irresponsibly. There are videos of these flying up to 3000 ft in a built up area near an airport. The RC modelling community is very concerned that soon we will have a spate of accidents that will lead to a huge backlash and draconian controls.

        Steve, it is true that there is a lot of open source firmware around. But none are as good as the controllers and firmware made by DJI systems and they are not open source. In fact, DJI systems is reported to control well over half the market for high end hobbiest and commercial drones as far back as two years ago. It is unlikely that any commercial operator would risk their business on brands other than DJI.

        It is a Chinese owned and based company and there are a complaints about them being very secretive and providing little support for their products. DJI never made a statement or gave any explanation about these flyaway incidents. It seems that most if not all involved a camera being attached and that might have interfered with the GPS sensors. I have to point out though that the flyaway issue involve their cheapest product i.e. the DJI Phantom only.

        But right now, the lead and lock that DJI has over this sector is so great that I cannot see any other company challenging it in the short to medium term.

        Derek
        It depends what you mean by hobbyist. There are a number that actually try to modify things, add programs, etc... and they can't just goto any place and buy a closed system. Of course it may be different in china because you could have dissidents finding novel ways to spy on the government.

        If the system relies on GPS, I guess that explains the flyaway. GPS isn't perfect. Even the military probably has some kind of navigation system to ride out blind spots, but THEY probably know where such spots are.

        And 3000 ft is good, but it is still pretty much worthless for a company like netflix or amazon. That is especially true since navigating under load is going to reduce that. netflix might not worry much, but amazon has to.

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          It depends what you mean by hobbyist. There are a number that actually try to modify things, add programs, etc... and they can't just goto any place and buy a closed system. Of course it may be different in china because you could have dissidents finding novel ways to spy on the government.

          If the system relies on GPS, I guess that explains the flyaway. GPS isn't perfect. Even the military probably has some kind of navigation system to ride out blind spots, but THEY probably know where such spots are.

          And 3000 ft is good, but it is still pretty much worthless for a company like netflix or amazon. That is especially true since navigating under load is going to reduce that. netflix might not worry much, but amazon has to.

          Steve

          What I meant was an altitude of 3000 ft. At that altitude, you cannot see the drone but have to depend on FPV and other instruments. It could come in the way of an aircraft. Also if the drone malfunctions at such as high altitude, it would be very difficult to predict where it will fall. The usual range for rc equipment is between 1 to 4 km. As for the fly aways, the most accepted explanation is that somehow the cameras interfered with the GPS sensors.

          The main difference between hobby and industrial grade would be much higher quality and reliability. It is true that there are a few flight controllers with open source firmware. But if you use them commercially and an accident happens, then you would be on much shakier ground.
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

            What I meant was an altitude of 3000 ft. At that altitude, you cannot see the drone but have to depend on FPV and other instruments. It could come in the way of an aircraft. Also if the drone malfunctions at such as high altitude, it would be very difficult to predict where it will fall. The usual range for rc equipment is between 1 to 4 km. As for the fly aways, the most accepted explanation is that somehow the cameras interfered with the GPS sensors.

            The main difference between hobby and industrial grade would be much higher quality and reliability. It is true that there are a few flight controllers with open source firmware. But if you use them commercially and an accident happens, then you would be on much shakier ground.
            Well, even 1-4KM is not really worthwhile.

            As for the hobby and industrial "grade" there really isn't such a thing. And opensource IS used even in COMMERCIAL software. HECK, on my last project, a large customer often spoke of prices close to a million dollars that he paid for COMMERCIAL software that was created on Opensource software. HECK, ever hear of JAVA? The most popular version, created by sun and now owned by oracle, is OPEN SOURCE! So a lot of proprietary software today is based on an OPEN SOURCE platform!

            Even the APPLE II/II+ was open source, in a way, except for the applesoft basic. They gave all the source documents hardware/firmware and you were allowed to change, but not sell, hardware.

            And ever hear of LINUX? Most of my COMMERCIAL customers now use that OPEN SOURCE platform, that encouraged hobbyists!

            And for JAVA and the APPLE, hobbyist use was encouraged.

            Or how about APACHE HTTPD(Most just call it APACHE), or TOMCAT?

            Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
              Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

              Well, even 1-4KM is not really worthwhile.

              As for the hobby and industrial "grade" there really isn't such a thing. And opensource IS used even in COMMERCIAL software. HECK, on my last project, a large customer often spoke of prices close to a million dollars that he paid for COMMERCIAL software that was created on Opensource software. HECK, ever hear of JAVA? The most popular version, created by sun and now owned by oracle, is OPEN SOURCE! So a lot of proprietary software today is based on an OPEN SOURCE platform!

              Even the APPLE II/II+ was open source, in a way, except for the applesoft basic. They gave all the source documents hardware/firmware and you were allowed to change, but not sell, hardware.

              And ever hear of LINUX? Most of my COMMERCIAL customers now use that OPEN SOURCE platform, that encouraged hobbyists!

              And for JAVA and the APPLE, hobbyist use was encouraged.

              Or how about APACHE HTTPD(Most just call it APACHE), or TOMCAT?

              Steve
              When I am talking about Hobby and Industrial Grade, I am referring to the hardware as well as the software. Earlier, I referred to the DJI Phantom as hobby grade whereas it uses a DJI NAZA controller which is regarded as high end hobby/commercial grade. However, the rest of the hardware is mainly designed for hobby use. We just don't hear much about this fly away issue in more expensive models using the same NAZA controller. In the RC model industry, the definition between toy, hobby, and industrial grade is often blurred. Just as many professional photographers would happily use a non-professional quality camera and vice-versa.

              Right now as far as I know, there are three main open source firmware available but the hardware they use is rather basic. They are really designed for those who want to spend as little money as possible. They are mainly designed for manual flight e.g. aerobatics. In fact, the model may handle much better than the DJI and other controllers. However, they are often lacking in stability and other functions. Critically, they lack a "return to home" function that is absolutely critical if you intend to fly it outside visible range. You can certainly put these open source controllers in "industrial grade" models but there just aren't many people doing it.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    If it has not already happened, I wonder how long before irresponsible
    RC drone pilots distract a driver and cause a car accident.
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    • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      If it has not already happened, I wonder how long before irresponsible
      RC drone pilots distract a driver and cause a car accident.

      This person flew his DJI Phantom among buildings in Manhattan and crashes within a few feet of a pedestrian. The pedestrian then took out the memory card and reported it to the police. The operator was eventually arrested.
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  • Profile picture of the author workoutstuff1
    I can just imagine a bored kid with a slingshot just watching for a drone to come by.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Derek,

    It is true they are inexpensive but how could a more expensive one be worth the money? Faster? More compatible with intel? More memory? More special interfaces? That stuff requires cooling and power, and that is what you want to REDUCE in things like this. It is a required tradeoff. That said, the slowest and cheapest used today blows even 2001 technology away.

    It is sad. I still remember paying $100 for the last CPU I bought. TODAY, for half the price, you an get a CPU that can do EVERYTHING it could! It would be quicker, lower power, and be on a tiny board with a couple gig of memory and a number of interfaces, etc...

    BTW the most basic controllers today DO have the ability to have a fly home functionality. It is just with weight, power, and cost, few bother adding it. Still, it can be done.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
      Steve, for a start the more expensive ones are bigger and carry a much bigger payload. The DJI Phantom can only carry a GoPro camera whereas the larger ones can carry a high end professional Canon or Nikon SLR which is needed for commercial aerial photography. Also the larger the aircraft, the more stable it is for aerial photography. They may also use more than 4 rotors to increase stability and reduce vibrations that will to lead to poor videos being made. Sometimes, just the camera mount or gimbal could cost hundreds of dollars.

      You are right that some of the open source controllers do have return to home function. But the most popular one one is the HobbyKing KK2 and that does not. However, no other controllers have return to home, altitude and GPS hold implemented as well as DJI. If the return to home is not implemented properly, the aircraft could miss home by a wide margin and that could be very dangerous. Similarly, a stable altitude and position hold is essential for good aerial photography.

      Flight Controllers » Odd Copter

      This is what a commercial drone typically looks like. It has 6 rotors carrying a large professional camera underneath

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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

        Steve, for a start the more expensive ones are bigger and carry a much bigger payload. The DJI Phantom can only carry a GoPro camera whereas the larger ones can carry a high end professional Canon or Nikon SLR which is needed for commercial aerial photography. Also the larger the aircraft, the more stable it is for aerial photography. They may also use more than 4 rotors to increase stability and reduce vibrations that will to lead to poor videos being made. Sometimes, just the camera mount or gimbal could cost hundreds of dollars.

        You are right that some of the open source controllers do have return to home function. But the most popular one one is the HobbyKing KK2 and that does not. However, no other controllers have return to home, altitude and GPS hold implemented as well as DJI. If the return to home is not implemented properly, the aircraft could miss home by a wide margin and that could be very dangerous. Similarly, a stable altitude and position hold is essential for good aerial photography.

        Flight Controllers » Odd Copter

        This is what a commercial drone typically looks like. It has 6 rotors carrying a large professional camera underneath

        [FULL] Drone Crashes into Crowd at Great Bull Run - YouTube
        Well, the ones I am talking about likely WOULD need to be programmed. Part of the hobbyist component. And the GPS should be accurate to within a few yards. For landing and the like, a company has developed a relatively inexpensive LIDAR. THAT can accurately range from several yards away. SO, if you wanted to land on a building, lets say, you could conceivably get the accuracy down to less than an INCH(<2.54cm)! I can't speak for china in that regard. All I am saying is that all the stuff is there. If you want to do it from ABSOLUTE scratch, you CAN. If you want to do it with major parts, you can. If major assemblies, you can. If with a prebuilt product complete with a cute cover, maybe you can do that also, and still have some flexibility.

        As for payload, etc.... the larger it is, maybe the longer it can fly. In theory, you COULD get it large enough that it could power itself to a large degree. HECK, you could have a mechanical backup, like an engine driven generator. But STILL, if you want quiet, or inexpensive....

        Steve
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