"Single Payer System"-- Educate me?

Well, my father and uncle had the same kind of problem. My father is in the US(happened around 1995). My uncle was in denmark(maybe 2000). My father ended up getting checked out and taken care of THAT DAY!!!!!!! My uncle was sent home to wait to see if they would take care of him. They eventually did, but he could have died!

Steve

You would think. All it does is make the companies conspire together. Here's an example:

Years ago I went to marriage counseling (first wife). We really could not afford the payments because insurance only covered 50%. Our therapist said it wasn't a problem because they all double the fee when they turn it in to insurance companies so their 50% payout is 100% of their fees. I appreciated the free ride, but it drives up prices in the long run.


Personally I think if people in this country were more concerned about their health it would improve our health care system overall. I find it funny too, that we all complain abut paying a $30 co-pay, or paying 20% of a bill. In fact, people sometimes get irate. But then they go out and drop $1400 on a new flat screen TV without batting an eyelash. People avoid doctor visits for the stupidest reasons until their health is out of control and more expensive.

To say our values are skewed in this country would be an understatement. We're as complicate in the health care mess as the government, insurance companies, pharma's, etc. We're the enablers.

Of course, I am generalizing. We're not ALL like this. But it's more common than not - just look at the percentage of overweight people (with illnesses directly attributed to weight issues) we have in this country.

That's part of a reason why we would have a problem with any kind of so called healthcare program we have or will have here.
Look at what we eat here and what we are told is safe or dangerous to eat and in Europe.
Here raw milk is called dangerous, there it's sold in vending machines.
Here we rely on large corporate farms using massive amounts of chemicals to feed us, there it's smaller more organic farms.
Here rBGH is injected into dairy cows to make them produce more milk (and cause us all sorts of health problems), there (and in most of the rest of the world) it's banned.
In other words they have what I call real healthcare there, we have sick care here.

Well, when I was in buffallo NY, I got a LOT of canadian TV. It IS right at the border. One side literally shares the border with canada. The Canadian Broadcasting Corporation had a program stating how they had problems. For whatever reason, I can't remember her alias here, but Jody spoke about the expense of a treatment that could maybe have helped her. It helped a coworker of mine but IS expensive.

Record keeping can be done via computer, as can much of the filtering. There ARE distinct standards. That is how MEDICARE is done, and how doctors communicate! You REALLY don't think medicaid, the veterans administration, UHC, etc... don't use the same codes? We may ALL be familiar with the DSM codes. The other codes look the same and are similar and I bet defined as well. I bet a doctor in kiev, india, germany,china, etc... could get the gist of a diagnosis JUST from the cods used! Certain treaments WILL be approved and denied on a case by case basis. Did you all REALLY so quickly forget about the 10yo girl that nearly died because of the rules?

Ever hear of medicare? Medicare is a federal system setup to do what the ACA claims IT is setup to do. So ask your question in THAT context. Medicaid is state run, AND for medicare. Weren't the seniors told they could keep it? OH WELL, WE were told WE could stay insured OUR way, and THAT is not true!

BTW he DID often say "PERIOD". The end of a statement is NEVER declared in that way unless it is for emphasis. That emphasis can be translated as "THAT IS THE TRUTH, no more or less, and THAT is how it will REMAIN!"! There isn't any fudging outsid of that context.

Because it will NOT be "bipartisan", WILL change at the whim of elections, and the other stuff could damage the economy and is unfair.

Becaus it would be the ULTIMATE WASTE! Why spend so many BILLIONS of dollars to build what we already have?

Yeah, it means things like getting government out of our business, as REQUIRED by several laws, including HIPPA and even the 1st, 4th, and 5th amendments, for starters. It means things like mandating reasonable reasons for treatments. It means things like ENFORCING fraud laws. How about a national database to fnd doctors, along with networks tey are associated with? OK, OK, I don't know WHO can do this since it would b almost as "hard" as th HC.G website. I guess the government is OUT! How about getting all biased individuals out of such offices and taking a cue from some engineering firms. How about a 2 year TOTAL NDA! That a person can't disclose, talk about, or even WORK WITH, anything on the periphery of what they did before! So a person can't go from the FED to a brokerage, or from the FDA to a pharmaceutical firm! And OBVIOUSLY, lobbyists would be out.

ALSO, in here, I have spoken about codes. Displacement of a disc, for example can be 722.2. This means WITHOUT mylopathy. WITH it may have a higher price. Doctors know this and SOME even have businesses showing other doctors how changing a little code could make them much more money. Medicare doesn't generally consider this a concern and often hasn't tried to check.

Even COMPUTERS could be used to check. If they somehow get patients to validate they have been treated for a time on a day, and cross reference treatments and history, they COULD catch most fraud, and highlight possible fraud. For the fraud the computer catches, they could automatically send the doctor a summons, like they do regular people for so many things, saying "This doesn't make sense! EXPLAIN, PAY, or we are going to court!". Highlighted fraud could be treated like an audit, they do so often.

Steve

No - I believe insurers should be able to sell across state lines - "in a pure capitalistic environment". And not burdened by regulations preventing them from providing affordable packages for those with lesser funds.

Right now the "if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor" portion of the current system, is being derailed by regulation preventing insurers from providing cheaper packages.

To me the fundamentals of true democracy are played out in capitalism. If people don't like a product or company, they regulate it using their purchasing power. It's not regulated by a single ideology - but by supply and demand. You cast your vote by purchasing or not purchasing - it doesn't get much more democratic than that.

Glad it all worked out. But how many people can't afford the hendful of $25 payments and the $427 etc, etc? Lots of people and that stops them from getting treated. Not an issue in our system. The quality of care is on par.

And you don't wipe everything out and hand it to the government. Healthcare is run by doctors who make medical decisions (not insurance companies). The governments only role is to pay the costs instead of insurance and the patient. I think this is where people don't get it.

That example doesn't work; nobody is forced to purchase someone else's food. You can always head for the wild and shoot a deer, catch a fish, or gather berries.

That's not the reason: the reason is that cancer treatments aren't a commodity. There aren't enough patients to justify an economy of scale.

Oh, by the way... without regulation there would be MORE anti-competitive, monopolistic practices. Not fewer. Regulations are needed to maintain a level playing field in the free market.

I knew it happened, I just felt I couldn't comment on it.

The whole act basically does! The first time she sued, they said she one EVERYTHING! Goodyear appealed, and they said she only won for 6 months.

She went to the supreme court and they said the law is the law, and it is reasonable, so we won't overturn it.

Someone in congress saw it and passed this stupid law that says every paycheck paid creates a NEW claim, and resets the statute.

Let's look at an example.

SHE makes $3000 a month and a MALE coworker came up with some great patent or something, so you now pay him $4000. She started in 1/1/2013.

HER PAYMENT DATE MADE STATUTE SET TO
$3000 2/1 8/1
$3000 3/1 9/1
$3000 4/1 10/1
$3000 5/1 11/1
etc....

Let's say you fired her on 4/1 as well. After about 11/1 you could likely claim she was past the SOL if she sued.(and owe $3000 if she succeeds). Every month you wait gives her another month to prepare, and costs you potentially another $1000.

[quote]As for why she didn't file her complaints for 19 years, do consider
that it was a different time-- It's often a little harsh to judge people
for their choices in the past based on our mindsets of the current
day and age.

As for your personal situation, I have no idea.

She COULD have gotten another job, so time has nothing t do with it. As for the deal I have, I think I just quit at that point. Seriously I HATE cigarette smoke and was working around noxious AND EXPLOSIVE chemicals, and she smoked up a storm!

If you have the flu, you should go to a hospital only if you REALLY need to! A LOT of people DIE from HOSPITAL borne illnesses after having things like the flu.

The current government probably doesn't have many that could even operate an oven, let alone follow a betty crocker cookbook, or balance their OWN checkbook. So I don't want to trust them with ANY aspect of my life!

I HAVE mentioned things, EVEN HERE that WOULD lower healthcare costs. I wish they would do THEM, instead of trying to gut the whole thing.

And this "oh, it is a SHITTY plan" excuse? Let me boil down a REAL example! It is like you are in a restroom, you have trouble breathing, and someone just "farted". A nearby "friend" says "OH, this is HORRIBLE! You should wait until we are in CLEAN air to breath!" They put a plastic bag snugly around your head, so you will "be comfortable". They meet a friend, talk a few minutes and get you to a better area. They remove the bag. "OK, you can breath now!" they tell you. OK, you're dead, I guess you had too much trouble breathing.

SERIOUSLY? You cut a person off from their hospital and doctor in the middle of a course of treatment and say "Well, it was a shitty plan"!?!?!? It may not have been the best, like that bad air, but it is still necessary!

Steve

Kay - I think it's safe to say that most people agree with this. This issue isn't about covering people - it's about HOW to cover people without bankrupting the country. This is where the divide lies. Some think throwing endless amounts of money at it (whether via the government or private business) is the answer. Some think there's nothing to fix.

If you can figure out how to get the majority of the people to agree on a solution, that's 3/4 of the battle.

Ah, I see.

I have to admit that I have a very strong bias against these
"natural" and "alternative" treatments. In my limited experience
they bring no measurable results, and I'm going to have to stick
with the professional opinions of people who actually went to
8+ years of medical school.

No insult meant here-- Just another clash of culture and opinion,
I think... It's okay, I think you and I actually did agree on something
once? :p

Sadly, we have reached an age where we have known a lot of people who have had cancers of one form or another. Far too many. And after Delia's diagnosis we discovered that even more of our friends than we had suspected have had brushes with it.

This is clearly a very small sample in the grand scheme of things, but 100% of those who sought 'alternative' treatments and therapies are now dead. 90% of those who followed the doctors' recommendations (however awful) are still alive.

God forbid I ever get it, but if the day does come I will trust my doctor.

Nope, didn't think that you did.

Yeah, there are some funny signs like that on both sides.
I've often wondered whether some of them are "real".
I'm sure that some are fake, but others are just forehead slappers.