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'The KKK wants you!'

by David Braybrooke
96 replies
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Sadly enough, this isn't an April Fool's joke!

THEY believe in the defence of white supremacy and they're on the hunt for new recruits.

The notorious Ku Klux Klan, which claims to promote non-violent defence of white people's rights, is on a recruitment drive across America.

Residents in towns across Texas, Louisiana, Illinois and Pennsylvania received leaflets in their letterboxes and cars promoting the white supremacy group.

The leaflets feature a hooded figure in robes with the Klan insignia and the words 'The KKK wants you!'. They also contain contact details and information for anyone wanting to join.
Ku Klux Klan launch fresh recruitment drive with offensive leaflet | News.com.au
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    They should ask Sharpton if he wants to join. Might be entertaining to watch.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Did I read that right "Non violent defence"?

      That's not the image I've seen portrayed, having said that I'm not exactly knowledgeable on it.

      Most of my KKK knowledge comes from watching Django.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      They should ask Sharpton if he wants to join. Might be entertaining to watch.
      WHY NOT? In a way, he does the SAME thing, but from the other side!

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        WHY NOT? In a way, he does the SAME thing, but from the other side!

        Steve
        In what way, exactly? KKK are terrorists with a long criminal history. Do you know the difference between terrorists and the right to peaceful assembly?

        KKK Acts of Terror - KuKluxKlan.net is a historical reference site for the ku klux klan. The site entails reference articles for users researching kkk history and ranges in scope from biographies to philosophies held by the ku klux klan - Ku Klux Kla
        The Ku Klux Klan — Carnival of Death: The Barbaric History of Lynching in America — Crime Library
        Ku Klux Klan -- Extremism in America
        Ku Klux Klan - Facts & Summary - HISTORY.com
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        • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
          Not wishing to upset anyone but does anyone know why they're called the Ku Klux Klan?

          I did look but there are various answers. I just wondered if anyone more in the know knew.

          It doesn't really matter it's just seems (to me at least) an odd name for white American racists to pick.
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

            Not wishing to upset anyone but does anyone know why they're called the Ku Klux Klan?

            I did look but there are various answers. I just wondered if anyone more in the know knew.

            It doesn't really matter it's just seems (to me at least) an odd name for white American racists to pick.
            I heard a REALLY good explanation once, but forgot it. Some idiot sals the three are names of older and similar orgs. NO WAY. KLAN is an old word meaning a group of people! So that is 1/3rd of the answer. Wikipedia has that really STUPID answer. The OTHERS give the answer of kyklos, and one says it is kuklos(Does sound like Ku klux!), and say it means circle or wheel. Wikipedia gave an answer that, even if wrong, is something to keep in mind. I wondered a while how this doesn't happen, but have seen this happen a LOT since. It is happening all over now, so.....

            The Kyklos (Ancient Greek: κύκλος, IPA: [kýklos], "cycle") is a term used by some classical Greek authors to describe what they saw as the political cycle of governments in a society. It was roughly based on the history of Greek city-states in the same period. The concept of "The Kyklos" is first elaborated in Plato's Republic, chapters VIII and IX. Polybius calls it the anakyklosis or "anacyclosis".

            According to Polybius, who has the most fully developed version of the cycle, it rotates through the three basic forms of government, democracy, aristocracy, and monarchy and the three degenerate forms of each of these governments ochlocracy, oligarchy, and tyranny. Originally society is in anarchy but the strongest figure emerges and sets up a monarchy. The monarch's descendants, who because of their family's power lack virtue, become despots and the monarchy degenerates into a tyranny. Because of the excesses of the ruler the tyranny is overthrown by the leading citizens of the state who set up an aristocracy. They too quickly forget about virtue and the state becomes an oligarchy. These oligarchs are overthrown by the people who set up a democracy. Democracy soon becomes corrupt and degenerates into mob rule, beginning the cycle anew.
            Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          OK, OK, The KKK is a group HAS been around longer than AL sharpton. BOTH spread hatred against the other race. BOTH incite violence. Listen to sharpton some time. OH, WHITES ARE RICH! WHITES HATE BLACKS! The RICH HATE THE POOR, etc... HEY, the KKK often assemble JUST as peacefully as AL SHARPTON! It is relatively rare that such assemblies exist to attack a given place or person. The KKK may have even had parades, like the NAZIS have here. I heard about one NAZI parade where THEY were the only ones that got hurt, from the protesters that attacked them.

          Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

            OK, OK, The KKK is a group HAS been around longer than AL sharpton. BOTH spread hatred against the other race. BOTH incite violence.
            Can I see your resources (links) to Sharpton inciting violence?
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          • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
            Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

            OK, OK, The KKK is a group HAS been around longer than AL sharpton.

            BOTH spread hatred against the other race.

            BOTH incite violence. Listen to sharpton some time.

            OH, WHITES ARE RICH! WHITES HATE BLACKS! The RICH HATE THE POOR, etc... HEY, the KKK often assemble JUST as peacefully as AL SHARPTON!

            It is relatively rare that such assemblies exist to attack a given place or person.

            The KKK may have even had parades, like the NAZIS have here.

            I heard about one NAZI parade where THEY were the only ones that got hurt, from the protesters that attacked them.

            Steve
            I remember when they were supposed to come to DC about 15-20 years ago.

            There were at least 25K people waiting for them.

            The decided to go to a little park far away from the 25K, walked around it shouting their slogans for about 30 minutes and got back into their bus and jetted.


            BTW...

            Like the KKK could get a 1 hour show on any of the major cable news outlets.

            You'd be much more in tune with reality by bringing up Farrakhan and the nation of islam instead of Sharpton.

            As a matter of fact back in the late 1960s & early 1970s the Nation Of Islam and the KKK actually had meetings about working together.
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            • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
              Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

              They were originally called the Krispy Kreme Klub,

              but some grand dragon decided it wasn't intimidating enough of a name
              That makes sense, I had a feeling it was a spelling issue. I always thought klan was spelt clan anyway.

              Good response too, I choked on my lunch laughing.

              Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

              As a matter of fact back in the late 1960s & early 1970s the Nation Of Islam and the KKK actually had meetings about working together.
              Seriously? So they're both a bunch of mugs then. Thanks TL, I most certainly didn't know that.

              I just don't understand how on earth a bunch of people that used to hang and burn people can honestly get any traction over there? I think they kind of shot themselves in the foot a long time ago.
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              • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                No doubt they will be on a lookout for Cat Marrying individuals? :rolleyes:


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              • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

                That makes sense, I had a feeling it was a spelling issue. I always thought klan was spelt clan anyway.

                Good response too, I choked on my lunch laughing.



                Seriously? So they're both a bunch of mugs then. Thanks TL, I most certainly didn't know that.

                I just don't understand how on earth a bunch of people that used to hang and burn people can honestly get any traction over there? I think they kind of shot themselves in the foot a long time ago.
                Since as a foreigner you seem to be intrigued by this part of American history...

                The KKK does not have much traction nowadays - since about mid 1980s, but there a bunch of people in this country who secretly endorse what they're about ( especially since the POTUS is non-white) ...

                ...but its just not cool to do it publicly anymore.

                IMHO, the KKK had already done their main job by the late 1920s.

                Somehow, someway in less than 40 years after American slavery,...

                ... the former slaves at come to own land in the southern part of the U.S. that was equivalent to 1/3 the land in Alabama, Georgia and I think Mississippi.

                The KKK's job was to run them off the land and I hear ownership of that land is now down to 5% of what it was in 1900.

                Other than that, their job was to harass, hang and burn a few of us, get as many of us to leave the south as possible - ...

                ...hence you had two great migrations of blacks leaving the southern part of the country. One in the 1920s and one in the 1940s.

                The leaders had strict instructions to not wholesale mass murder them - (which I have no doubt could have been done),...

                ... because they would also be used as labor leverage against the whites down south.

                IMHO...

                Good ole capitalism stopped the mass murder of blacks in the south - after the civil war.

                Of course the rank and file KKK members had no idea what was going on except hating on a bunch of people and also feeling good about themselves in the process.

                Thus ends your lesson on American terrorism.
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                • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                  Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                  Thus ends your lesson on American terrorism.
                  ANOTHER EXAMPLE WHY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx4pN-aiofw

                  Steve
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                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                  I grew up in Lodi Ohio. A very small town. All white. The Grand Wizard of the KKK was on my paper route. He was an old man, in a small home...who never mowed his lawn. I used to see the giant crosses in fields. I asked my parents what these things were. My Dad said "Some people are evil, and do evil things."

                  I was lucky in that my parents weren't prejudiced, and they didn't teach me to be, either. But there were kids in my school that hated black people.


                  Fear, ignorance, stupidity...If these things apply to you..the KKK is your answer.
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                • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
                  Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                  Since as a foreigner you seem to be intrigued by this part of American history...

                  The KKK does not have much traction nowadays - since about mid 1980s, but there a bunch of people in this country who secretly endorse what they're about ( especially since the POTUS is non-white) ...

                  ...but its just not cool to do it publicly anymore.

                  IMHO, the KKK had already done their main job by the late 1920s.

                  Somehow, someway in less than 40 years after American slavery,...

                  ... the former slaves at come to own land in the southern part of the U.S. that was equivalent to 1/3 the land in Alabama, Georgia and I think Mississippi.

                  The KKK's job was to run them off the land and I hear ownership of that land is now down to 5% of what it was in 1900.

                  Other than that, their job was to harass, hang and burn a few of us, get as many of us to leave the south as possible - ...

                  ...hence you had two great migrations of blacks leaving the southern part of the country. One in the 1920s and one in the 1940s.

                  The leaders had strict instructions to not wholesale mass murder them - (which I have no doubt could have been done),...

                  ... because they would also be used as labor leverage against the whites down south.

                  IMHO...

                  Good ole capitalism stopped the mass murder of blacks in the south - after the civil war.

                  Of course the rank and file KKK members had no idea what was going on except hating on a bunch of people and also feeling good about themselves in the process.

                  Thus ends your lesson on American terrorism.
                  Crickey TL, many thanks.

                  As a foreigner to your land I appreciate the time you've taken as a black man to answer that. I also respect the way you answered without getting nasty about whites which shows what a decent chap you are.

                  I don't know your age or whether you were caught up in it but if you were or you weren't, and I'm sure your elder family were, I can't help admire the way you explained that.

                  I saw some films when I was young where they tied some poor black fella or lady to a cross and set fire to them, as a very young boy I remember even now how horrified I was. My Mum even turned one off once and explained a thing or two about how we all bleed red and that way of treating anyone was pure evil.

                  I'm fortunate to have decent parents like Claude that explained things.

                  I grew up on a council estate when I was a bit older where one half of the estate was white and one half black. Never was there an issue between us, we never understood why the council had put them one side and us the other, it was like they tried to pit us against each other or they thought we needed to be separated but we respected each other and the whites fought each other and so did they, between us we were always very friendly and I counted them as good friends. We had to join forces in the end when we were both continually attacked by another group of people and we fought side by side, sadly we all turned to football hooliganism and some of us are no more and some are doing well.

                  TL, I sincerely thank you for taking the time to explain that to a humble foreigner.
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            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sUjlle7ZVo

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r20m7K45zRI

              People rob houses ALL THE TIME! If the police failed to come to the guys home on a robbery, they would be SUED! They had their names pulled through the mud because they DID come.

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jJF0nlbJOY

              TAWANA DESTROYED PEOPLES LIVES AND WAS APPLAUDED for it!

              Tawana Brawley Rape Hoax Leads To Defamation Damage Payout 26 Years Later



              Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

              I remember when they were supposed to come to DC about 15-20 years ago.

              There were at least 25K people waiting for them.

              The decided to go to a little park far away from the 25K, walked around it shouting their slogans for about 30 minutes and got back into their bus and jetted.
              My statement about them being "peaceful" was KIND of tongue in cheek, in that I meant not PHYSICALLY violent. You see, if I don't use THAT definition, I can't say people like sharpton are peaceful either. But YEAH, the NAZIs and KKK, which both started for the same reasons and have similar goals, and try to engender hatred to get to those goals, both will shout things towards those ends. JUST LIKE THE LIKES OF AL SHARPTON, BTW!

              You'd be much more in tune with reality by bringing up Farrakhan and the nation of islam instead of Sharpton.
              Cut from the same cloth! HECK, the "pastor" at Obamas "church" of 20+ years was a member of NoI, and is still friends with Farrakhan.

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX1y6Q9PYcg

              As a matter of fact back in the late 1960s & early 1970s the Nation Of Islam and the KKK actually had meetings about working together.
              Malcolm X meets with Ku Klux Klan regarding a separate nation for black Muslims

              Doesn't really sound like working TOGETHER.

              BTW a lot of "black muslims" don't know they are "black muslims". Not all blacks are "black muslims", though a large portion that aren't still follow the "black muslim" leaders.

              Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
              If you just looked at what the KKK idiots actually DO - you'd laugh at them. What brains does it take to pass out a recruitment flyer - and not know you are handing it out in a black neighborhood? These aren't people who are going to take over anything.

              As for "recruitment" you can google "kkk recruitment" and add a year 2010, 2011, 2012, etc....and find the same recruitment stories with different states/locations mentioned. It's not a new movement sweeping across the nation - just a tired old movement trying to stay afloat.

              Problem is, the KKK name/reputation is well known so it's useful for hoaxes. Oberlin College - what a joke that was. Sharmeka Moffitt in Louisiana last Spring - pure hoax but people online were outraged and ready to "take action".
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  • Profile picture of the author Floyd Fisher
    This is about all I can say right now....



    Nazis Take a Dive - The Blues Brothers (3/9) Movie CLIP (1980) HD - YouTube
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  • Profile picture of the author TotalWebsiteControl
    Great googly moozer
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    It IS kind of ironic! This type of stuff is likely to happen EVERYWHERE, and IS happening all over! Just another thing I predicted. But HEY, hatred increased ANYWAY! It is just a question of WHO it is against. HEY, i found MORE evidence that it played a MAJOR part in WWII! NO, I DON'T mean NAZISM, but what CREATED NAZISM then and now! HECK, the ukrainian variant of nazism was blamed for the fight in the ukraine. Here is their wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party) Although it apparently wasn't targeted against russians, russia claimed it was.

    Ironically, I think the only people that really have any laws against it, that they are serious about, are the Germans.

    BTW the article says:

    The Klan flourished in the US in the 1860s and again in the 1920s and World War II.
    YEP, it fits! HEY, you don't think wars just START do you?

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author TotalWebsiteControl
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      It IS kind of ironic! This type of stuff is likely to happen EVERYWHERE, and IS happening all over! Just another thing I predicted. But HEY, hatred increased ANYWAY! It is just a question of WHO it is against. HEY, i found MORE evidence that it played a MAJOR part in WWII! NO, I DON'T mean NAZISM, but what CREATED NAZISM then and now! HECK, the ukrainian variant of nazism was blamed for the fight in the ukraine. Here is their wikipedia page: Svoboda (political party) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Although it apparently wasn't targeted against russians, russia claimed it was.

      Ironically, I think the only people that really have any laws against it, that they are serious about, are the Germans.

      BTW the article says:



      YEP, it fits! HEY, you don't think wars just START do you?

      Steve
      LOL hit the nail on the head bud
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  • Profile picture of the author socialentry
    Banned
    They were originally called the Krispy Kreme Klub,

    but some grand dragon decided it wasn't intimidating enough of a name
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    Al Sharpton is nothing like the KKK - he may incite violence (he has definitely incited violence), but I've never known him to be a violent person. The KKK has not only incited violence - but they're usually the ones that carry it out as well.

    The Black Panthers might be a close relation, but there's no way to really compare the sides. Any pro black movements are usually formed to counter the disadvantages African Americans have had to face after being forced to live here because of slavery.
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Originally Posted by garyv View Post

      Al Sharpton is nothing like the KKK ...
      I wasn't a big fan of the early Al but never hated him either. Of course the Tawana Brawley fiasco was a huge mistake and he said some pretty bad things years ago, but I think he has changed quite a bit. He admits he was always angry back then, not only at society, but at his father. Anyone who compares him to the KKK really just looks silly and loses credibility completely.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        I wasn't a big fan of the early Al but never hated him either. Of course the Tawana Brawley fiasco was a huge mistake and he said some pretty bad things years ago, but I think he has changed quite a bit. He admits he was always angry back then, not only at society, but at his father. Anyone who compares him to the KKK really just looks silly and loses credibility completely.
        I'll admit that I wasn't a fan earlier in my life. Not because he was black, but because he was religious.

        But I've heard him on panels, and he's really quite a bright man. I may not agree with what he says. But he's no moron.
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        • Profile picture of the author socialentry
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          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          I'll admit that I wasn't a fan earlier in my life. Not because he was black, but because he was religious.

          But I've heard him on panels, and he's really quite a bright man. I may not agree with what he says. But he's no moron.
          Indeed,contrarly to some of his countrymen Al Sharpton originally supported Dennis Rodman's worldwide diplomatic efforts but he showed moral cowardice by retracting his coments in front of public pressure.
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        • Profile picture of the author discrat
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          I'll admit that I wasn't a fan earlier in my life. Not because he was black, but because he was religious.
          Curious to why you do not care for people who are religious ???
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          Nothing to see here including a Sig so just move on :)

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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        Sharpton to this day defends his role in the Tawana Bradley hoax and claimed in an interview last year that "I did the right thing". According to him, the jury may have been wrong in that case...he ignores Brawley's confession that she made up the story. Brawley is finally having to take responsibility - was a long time coming:

        Pay-up time for Brawley: ’87 rape-hoaxer finally shells out for slander | New York Post

        Sharpton disgusts me because of his part in the Crown Heights riot where people were killed. He says he "didn't understand how bad the tensions were" - but he's the one that pushed the anger over the top. His anti-semitic comments were as racist as it gets.

        He is a smart man - and a genius at self promotion.
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        • Profile picture of the author garyv
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          Sharpton to this day defends his role in the Tawana Bradley hoax and claimed in an interview last year that "I did the right thing". According to him, the jury may have been wrong in that case...he ignores Brawley's confession that she made up the story. Brawley is finally having to take responsibility - was a long time coming:

          Pay-up time for Brawley: '87 rape-hoaxer finally shells out for slander | New York Post

          Sharpton disgusts me because of his part in the Crown Heights riot where people were killed. He says he "didn't understand how bad the tensions were" - but he's the one that pushed the anger over the top. His anti-semitic comments were as racist as it gets.

          He is a smart man - and a genius at self promotion.
          I'm definitely not sticking up for the man as much as some here might.
          He's a despicable person and an instigator for sure, and has done nothing to better race relations in this country, but he's no where near the same level as the KKK.
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          Sharpton to this day defends his role in the Tawana Bradley hoax and claimed in an interview last year that "I did the right thing". According to him, the jury may have been wrong in that case...he ignores Brawley's confession that she made up the story. Brawley is finally having to take responsibility - was a long time coming:

          Pay-up time for Brawley: '87 rape-hoaxer finally shells out for slander | New York Post

          Sharpton disgusts me because of his part in the Crown Heights riot where people were killed. He says he "didn't understand how bad the tensions were" - but he's the one that pushed the anger over the top. His anti-semitic comments were as racist as it gets.

          He is a smart man - and a genius at self promotion.
          I've never been much of a Sharpton fan. The Brawley thing was ridiculous and I'm glad she's paying. I never read about the Crown Heights riots until now, and yes, it looks very much like he at least was involved with the violent crowd.

          I don't care much for him because I don't like people who come off as angry all the time, which he mostly does. After the Trayvon Martin trial, he did come on TV several times and call for calm and peace, which I was glad to hear. Violence on top of violence solves nothing.
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        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          Sharpton disgusts me because of his part in the Crown Heights riot where people were killed. He says he "didn't understand how bad the tensions were" - but he's the one that pushed the anger over the top.
          Well, the death of Yankel Rosenbaum happened hours after the death of Gavin Cato, the little boy killed by the car which sparked the riots. Sharpton didn't get involved until the 3rd day, so saying Sharpton was the one who pushed anger over the top doesn't seem accurate to me. He has admitted his remarks at Cato's funeral were wrong.

          According to him, the jury may have been wrong in that case...he ignores Brawley's confession that she made up the story.
          Not sure where you get the idea she confessed to making up the story since the article you linked to says the ex prosecuter who sued her said he would forgive the debt if she confessed. The family has even asked the NY AG and Gov to reopen the case. :/
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          • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

            Well, the death of Yankel Rosenbaum happened hours after the death of Gavin Cato, the little boy killed by the car which sparked the riots. Sharpton didn't get involved until the 3rd day, so saying Sharpton was the one who pushed anger over the top doesn't seem accurate to me. He has admitted his remarks at Cato's funeral were wrong.
            Al Sharpton gets involved with things that help promote Al Sharpton. And he's never been a promoter of true peace. He just plays the game. If he was, he would be just as outspoken about black on black or black on white violence - but he really isn't. It's typically when white on black violence comes up.

            But like anyone similar to Sharpton, they all have their agendas and their preferred methods. Being from New York, we get more than our fair share of this clown. I stopped listening to his rhetoric years ago. Make no mistake - he's as bigoted as those he rails against as being bigoted.

            And FWIW, you can put all those KKK members on a bus and drive it over a cliff. I don't think many people would shed too many tears
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by garyv View Post

      Al Sharpton is nothing like the KKK - he may incite violence (he has definitely incited violence), but I've never known him to be a violent person. The KKK has not only incited violence - but they're usually the ones that carry it out as well.

      The Black Panthers might be a close relation, but there's no way to really compare the sides. Any pro black movements are usually formed to counter the disadvantages African Americans have had to face after being forced to live here because of slavery.
      WOW, you're nice! You consider someone that spreads evil and encourages OTHERS to carry it out as FAR better than those that also carry it out? YIKES!!!!

      Black slavery hasn't been in the US since about 1870 or so. And a little white kid that may not have even SEEN a black, let alone had any animosity towards them should NOT be a casualty of any "counter" of an event that non of the blacks have been subject to.

      HEY, ALL races, including whites, haven't been given a free pass to do whatever. On a side note, one kid in a school I went to was RICH and EVERYONE in the school wanted to be on his good side. Even the SCHOOL treated him special. HE WAS BLACK!!!!!! So even BLACKS have benefited from that. any whites HAVEN'T!

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author garyv
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        WOW, you're nice! You consider someone that spreads evil and encourages OTHERS to carry it out as FAR better than those that also carry it out? YIKES!!!!

        Black slavery hasn't been in the US since about 1870 or so. And a little white kid that may not have even SEEN a black, let alone had any animosity towards them should NOT be a casualty of any "counter" of an event that non of the blacks have been subject to.

        HEY, ALL races, including whites, haven't been given a free pass to do whatever. On a side note, one kid in a school I went to was RICH and EVERYONE in the school wanted to be on his good side. Even the SCHOOL treated him special. HE WAS BLACK!!!!!! So even BLACKS have benefited from that. any whites HAVEN'T!

        Steve
        I'm sorry Steve, but I have yet to see Al head up a group to go out and hang white people just for being white.

        Yes I think he's a despicable person, but not even close to being at the same level of hatred and violence as the KKK.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by garyv View Post

          I'm sorry Steve, but I have yet to see Al head up a group to go out and hang white people just for being white.

          Yes I think he's a despicable person, but not even close to being at the same level of hatred and violence as the KKK.
          You didn't see the parts in the films where he said whites were evil and trying to hold people down, or the scene where a group he headed had a banner saying whites were the devil?

          I'm sure a lot of KKK people never setup a cross or killed. Of course, many NAZIs didn't either.

          Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author garyv
            Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

            You didn't see the parts in the films where he said whites were evil and trying to hold people down, or the scene where a group he headed had a banner saying whites were the devil?

            I'm sure a lot of KKK people never setup a cross or killed. Of course, many NAZIs didn't either.

            Steve
            We'll just have to disagree on this one.

            I'm a white person, and I'd rather be in a room w/ Al Sharpton over the KKK any day. (Although I prefer neither).
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            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
              Suzanne -

              Sharpton often calls for calm and peace - after he gets involved and fans the flames. That way he gets credit from both sides.

              In a room with Sharpton AND the KKK my reaction would be the same - I'd turn my back on them.
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              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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                Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                Suzanne -

                Sharpton often calls for calm and peace - after he gets involved and fans the flames. That way he gets credit from both sides.

                In a room with Sharpton AND the KKK my reaction would be the same - I'd turn my back on them.
                If I were a civil rights activist, I would fan the flames also. That's what activists do. I haven't lived a life feeling the bite of bigotry because I'm caucasian. If I had, I'm certain I would feel the same anger as he does. If people like King and Sharpton (although I hold King in much higher regard) did nothing, said nothing and were not angry about discrimination, not much would have changed.

                People choose their battles and fan the flames all the time. You see it very clearly right here in Off Topic, even if they have to make up facts to persuade others. There are flames that should be fanned.

                I could easily be in a room with Sharpton and probably have an intelligent conversation that I enjoyed. I wouldn't want to be anywhere near a KKK.
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                • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                  Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                  If I were a civil rights activist, I would fan the flames also. That's what activists do. I haven't lived a life feeling the bite of bigotry because I'm caucasian.
                  MAN, I did! In schools, I saw it from SOME mexicans, SOME middle easterners, SOME blacks, SOME jewish, and SOME asians, and some that perceived themselves to be poorer than I was. Luckily, with most other whites, my big problem was with bullies that were that way regardless of my race/faith. I only recall a few indians(from india), and didn't have a problem with them. Those that identified as "american indian" considered themselves in my regard to be white. I, and perhaps they, knew only because the school wanted to know for some reason.

                  I EVEN went with a jewish friend to a conservative synagogue, and they had a woman go up to recite the shema, and she ******CHANGED****** it! It became downright RACIST! Basically Love your ****JEWISH**** neighbor as yourself. To his credit though, the Rabbi was noticably taken aback.

                  Of course, at a table of Jewish people, they forgot I was not Jewish, and said some things that weren't AHEM POLITE.

                  HECK, I once went to a church that had a church that had ex moslems and EX Jewish people in it! I went to a church that is in a building owned by a jewish synagogue, that took a LOSS on the building so the Christians could be there. They have a joint congregation every year!

                  I lived with a Jewish Iranian for about a year. I worked at a company besides a black peer(we were co-admins/tech leads), and we defended one another. My CAREER now dictates I am often surrounded by people from india. My step mother is jewish, and I had a japanese aunt and cousins. So it isn't like everyone hates me, etc... or I think they are all evil.

                  I HAVE seen a fair amount of hate though. AGAIN, LUCKILY, not lately first hand.

                  If I had, I'm certain I would feel the same anger as he does. If people like King and Sharpton (although I hold King in much higher regard) did nothing, said nothing and were not angry about discrimination, not much would have changed.

                  People choose their battles and fan the flames all the time. You see it very clearly right here in Off Topic, even if they have to make up facts to persuade others. There are flames that should be fanned.
                  Actually, whites have little recourse. HECK, people(EVEN BLACKS) have trouble with BO and are called RACIST for it.

                  I could easily be in a room with Sharpton and probably have an intelligent conversation that I enjoyed. I wouldn't want to be anywhere near a KKK.
                  Like I said before, I couldn't be with EITHER.

                  Steve
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                • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                  Spot on post. By the way, MLK was also accused of inciting violence.
                  Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                  If I were a civil rights activist, I would fan the flames also. That's what activists do. I haven't lived a life feeling the bite of bigotry because I'm caucasian. If I had, I'm certain I would feel the same anger as he does. If people like King and Sharpton (although I hold King in much higher regard) did nothing, said nothing and were not angry about discrimination, not much would have changed.

                  People choose their battles and fan the flames all the time. You see it very clearly right here in Off Topic, even if they have to make up facts to persuade others. There are flames that should be fanned.

                  I could easily be in a room with Sharpton and probably have an intelligent conversation that I enjoyed. I wouldn't want to be anywhere near a KKK.
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            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
              Originally Posted by garyv View Post

              We'll just have to disagree on this one.

              I'm a white person, and I'd rather be in a room w/ Al Sharpton over the KKK any day. (Although I prefer neither).
              Well, I'm white also, And wouldn't want to room with ANY of them!

              Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
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      Originally Posted by garyv View Post

      Al Sharpton is nothing like the KKK - he may incite violence (he has definitely incited violence), but I've never known him to be a violent person.
      That's like saying Hitler didn't do anything wrong, it was all the other guys that had guns that did the damage.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        That's like saying Hitler didn't do anything wrong, it was all the other guys that had guns that did the damage.
        GOOD POINT! Did hitler EVER DIRECTLY kill a person, except maybe himself? He may not have! HECK, he may not have even killed people while he was in the military. It looks like his two main jobs, according to wikipedia, were as a glorified mailman, and a spy. He "spied" on an organization called the NSDAP(AKA NAZIs). He joined soon after that.

        THINK ABOUT IT! People hate him for his ideas, what he said, inciting the masses to destroy freedom and go to war, and his orders.

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
          That's great. Now Sharpton is not only the equal of the KKK but also Hitler! Good grief. Unbelievable.
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

            That's great. Now Sharpton is not only the equal of the KKK but also Hitler! Good grief. Unbelievable.
            I COULD start comparing, point for point but.... ICSM! HEY, HITLER was against disparaging a race ALSO!
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          • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

            That's great. Now Sharpton is not only the equal of the KKK but also Hitler! Good grief. Unbelievable.
            Yeah, that kind of crosses the line a little.

            While I would not compare Sharpton to the likes of the KKK or Hitler, neither would I tout him a champion of equality. In fact, just the opposite. And while you may not be able to point at him directly as an "instigator of violence" he never really tried very hard to discourage it either. Which is a shame, a man with his following.

            Personally, I think he's a bit of a clown now. More entertainer than activist (at least until a high profile "racial" case comes along so he can bump his TV ratings a bit).

            But I have the freedom to choose not to watch him or listen to him
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          • Profile picture of the author yukon
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            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

            That's great. Now Sharpton is not only the equal of the KKK but also Hitler! Good grief. Unbelievable.
            Reading comprehension is helpful.

            My point was a person that's in a position to influence the masses has the power to make things happen without lifting a finger.

            Sharpton is an imbecile that feeds off unsuspecting followers emotions while stirring the pot. He's done nothing positive.
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            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
              Originally Posted by yukon View Post

              Reading comprehension is helpful.

              My point was a person that's in a position to influence the masses has the power to make things happen without lifting a finger.

              Sharpton is an imbecile that feeds off unsuspecting followers emotions while stirring the pot. He's done nothing positive.
              Frankly, also, I think their speech is similar! They BOTH say the other races stole from their race and are evil. They BOTH led parades/skirmishes at the beginning. They both created youth groups to that end.

              Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

            That's great. Now Sharpton is not only the equal of the KKK but also Hitler! Good grief. Unbelievable.
            If either were true I don't understand how Sharpton could be allowed to be on national TV for one hour five days a week.
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            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
              Are we really going to descend into arguing the "value" of Sharpton? A lot of people wonder why he's on TV - but he fits into MSNBC and does well there apparently.
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              • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
                Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                Are we really going to descend into arguing the "value" of Sharpton? A lot of people wonder why he's on TV - but he fits into MSNBC and does well there apparently.
                True, but to be fair, I also wonder why Honey Boo Boo and Snooki are on TV too.

                Answer: Entertainment. And like Sharptons show, I elect not to watch these either.
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                • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

                  True, but to be fair, I also wonder why Honey Boo Boo and Snooki are on TV too.

                  Answer: Entertainment. And like Sharptons show, I elect not to watch these either.
                  I watch MSNBC occasionally, but always turn it to another channel if Sharptons' show is on. I just don't like his style at all.

                  But you're right about that ... I mean ... Honey Boo Boo, The Despicable Wives of [you name the place], Duck Dynasty, Kardashians, you name it. I am so disgusted by most that TV has to offer, that I'd rather rent a movie or read than watch it.
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                  • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                    Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                    I just don't like his style at all.
                    Yeah, I don't much care for his style either. Although he's had some interesting shows I have catched here and there, his way of interviewing is not for me.

                    Chris Mathews is another who I just can't listen to for more than a few minutes because of his style even though I usually am in agreement with him on most issues. Mathews annoys the hell out of me by constantly interrupting his guests whether they agree with him or not, by making ridiculous predictions, and by his constant need to feed his ego. The spit issue can be irratating also.
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                    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                      Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                      Yeah, I don't much care for his style either. Although he's had some interesting shows I have catched here and there, his way of interviewing is not for me.

                      Chris Mathews is another who I just can't listen to for more than a few minutes because of his style even though I usually am in agreement with him on most issues. Mathews annoys the hell out of me by constantly interrupting his guests whether they agree with him or not, by making ridiculous predictions, and by his constant need to feed his ego. The spit issue can be irratating also.
                      Chris Matthews has improved a lot over the years but still interrupts people often.

                      Ed and Al Crack me up with their bombastic style but I don't watch any of them as much as I used to.

                      Chris Hayes is OK.

                      Lawrence O'Donnell is my favorite - he cracks me up.

                      Rachel is very through with her unusual angles and has an easy going style.
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            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
              Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

              If either were true I don't understand how Sharpton could be allowed to be on national TV for one hour five days a week.
              For the same reason we can't say i* extremist or terrorist or speak against m*. and BLCKS will say N* EVEN on national TV, but nobody else can.

              Steve
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              • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                For the same reason we can't say i* extremist or terrorist or speak against m*. and BLCKS will say N* EVEN on national TV, but nobody else can.

                Steve
                Once again, Sir, you are entitled.
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          • Profile picture of the author Midnight Oil
            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

            That's great. Now Sharpton is not only the equal of the KKK but also Hitler! Good grief. Unbelievable.
            There's a crowd that has no problem making the same comparisons about Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh and even conservatives in general. Usually the same crowd that has no problems labeling Ben Carson, Herman Cain, Clarence Thomas, Allen West, Colin Powell, etc. as Uncle Tom's, tokens and house-slaves.
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            • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
              Sure, and both crowds are wrong and should be called out for it. I don't like Rush and think he, Hannity and Beck are disgusting, but I'll never compare any of them to those responsible for the murders of tens of thousands or tens of millions. That's just dumb. I expect it from Seasoned but am surprised to hear it from Yukon who usually makes more thoughtful reasonable posts.

              Originally Posted by Midnight Oil View Post

              There's a crowd that has no problem making the same comparisons about Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh and even conservatives in general. Usually the same crowd that has no problems labeling Ben Carson, Herman Cain, Clarence Thomas, Allen West, Colin Powell, etc. as Uncle Tom's, tokens and house-slaves.
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              • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                Sure, and both crowds are wrong and should be called out for it. I don't like Rush and think he, Hannity and Beck are disgusting, but I'll never compare any of them to those responsible for the murders of tens of thousands or tens of millions. That's just dumb. I expect it from Seasoned but am surprised to hear it from Yukon who usually makes more thoughtful reasonable posts.
                HEY, we NEVER know how many ARE affected by such things. And it can continue long after they have died. Look at Karl Marx! People are STILL dying!

                But maybe marx was misunderstood, or just naive. Later incarnations should have learned from history. But they always say THIS is different.

                Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author hardraysnight
    be interesting to find kkk immigration policy, i think it may be populist
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    • Profile picture of the author socialentry
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      Originally Posted by hardraysnight View Post

      be interesting to find kkk immigration policy, i think it may be populist
      all US politicos are populist.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        I was wrong, Tim - Brawley didn't confess... the total lack of evidence sort of did it for her.

        29. The Tawana Brawley Hoax

        At Crown Heights, Sharpton showed up at the end of a 3 day riot - organized a "march" and the riot started all over again. A second man was later killed but not directly due to Sharpton.

        Deaths some attributed to Sharpton's activity were at Freddie's Fashion Mart.

        I think everybody should just get together and have a barbecue - it's a lot more fun than agitatin and hatin .
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        • Profile picture of the author David Braybrooke
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          I think everybody should just get together and have a barbecue - it's a lot more fun than agitatin and hatin .
          Toasting marshmallows together over a burning cross ..... Pass!

          The KKK are not the friendly BBQ types I think you'd find.
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        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post


          I think everybody should just get together and have a barbecue - it's a lot more fun than agitatin and hatin .
          I've got some nice Apple wood to smoke a Brisket, and some nice smoke to smoke the agitatin and hatin
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I love it when a black guy tells me because I'm white and from a well off family that I know nothing about bigotry. I don't think there's a woman on earth that hasn't faced men who think her only job on earth is to serve a male in some way.

    There's not a black born in this country that knows what slavery was like anymore. There's women of every race here that know what it's like to be told to get back in the kitchen and STFU. In some countries they are still owned like we own our pets.

    I've heard Sharpton's hate speech. I know a lot of blacks that he makes sick to their stomachs. I know a few whites that are still KKK bigoted. Half of our problem is that we give these people any attention at all. Let them have free speech. That way we know who we should be ignoring while the rest of us build something we can all live with in harmony.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I don't think there's a woman on earth that hasn't faced men who think her only job on earth is to serve a male in some way.
      I've never had a man say that my only job or any part of my job was to serve a male. If they had, it would have been the last conversation we had together.

      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      There's not a black born in this country that knows what slavery was like anymore. There's women of every race here that know what it's like to be told to get back in the kitchen and STFU.
      There's a very big difference between a woman choosing to date, or live with, or marry a moron and inequality due to race. One is a choice ... the other is not. It would be a more accurate comparison of the discrimination that women face to compare mens' and womens' incomes given identical qualifications and same with promotions.
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        I've never had a man say that my only job or any part of my job was to serve a male. If they had, it would have been the last conversation we had together.



        There's a very big difference between a woman choosing to date, or live with, or marry a moron and inequality due to race. One is a choice ... the other is not. It would be a more accurate comparison of the discrimination that women face to compare mens' and womens' incomes given identical qualifications and same with promotions.
        Any more it really is our own choice. Back when I was in my 20's it wasn't. I experienced all sorts of discrimination back then. It was NOT by choice and some of it wasn't a matter of being able to just ignore it.

        1. When I tried to get my tubes cut, I was refused year after year, because -- they wanted permission from my husband (I didn't even have one, but they decided my reproductive rights belonged to whatever man I attached to instead of to me).
        2. Tried to get a loan to put out a video. They wanted a husband's signature. I got grief everywhere I tried to get that loan and finally had to give up on making the video. They even belittled my idea and told me it was "cute" but wouldn't be profitable. What was the video? It was a stretching routine very similar, and in some areas, completely convergent on Palladies. Years after I tried to get that off the ground, someone else got to put that out.
        3. Asked to chart my menstrual cycle for bosses so they'd know if I was just laying off of work because I was "on the rag" - and, yes, that term was used. That happened several times. At least I had the dignity to tell them to shove and leave instead of answering such idiotic, sexist questioning.
        4. I was hit by a man (ex-husband) and called the police. They walked him around the block to "cool him off" and told me to fix him a treat to eat. Serious. I didn't buy that even back then. I left right then and there and never went back.

        That's just a few of the incidents, Suzanne. Maybe my statement should have included an age limit in it. Women my age remember what it's like to be second class citizens. Our lives have changed a lot in just a few decades. If you don't remember this kind of thing, then you got lucky to be born after female ownership was a thing of the past. Watch a few "I love Lucy" episodes and you'll get the drift of everyday life before the 80's.
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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          • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
            Richard ... Don't be deceived by an avatar. I really am a non-violent person and have been able to handle situations without much poking of eyes and kicking. lol. I prefer to just remove myself from situations and relationships that don't work for me.
            I know I'm only kidding you. The avatar isn't violent looking anyway, kind of kinky actually.

            I'm just saying the man in question shouldn't altogether necessarily expect a non violent response like you would do.
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          • Profile picture of the author HeySal
            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            Well Sal, I'm older than you are (I have six grandchildren) and I have lived my entire life making my own decisions, including getting loans and getting my tubes tied. I've never been owned or controlled by a man (and divorced one that tried), other than permission based activities, such as doing things for a wage.

            If a man had hit me and a cop told me to make him a treat, I assure you that he would never forget that 'treat."

            As for your #3, I've never heard another person with that type of experience. Not saying it didn't happen, but I'd have dumped that pervert boss at the very instance that he asked me personal health questions that he had no business asking.

            Perhaps some of it is upbringing. My mother was way ahead of her time. We were raised to be independent, free thinkers, and while discrimination against women existed (and still exists), it's affect on my own life was really minimal. I never wanted a corporate executive position, so the glass ceiling and wage discrimination didn't affect me in the positions I had, and those were the biggest issues facing women, especially with a 50% divorce rate creating so many female single head of households. I was always able to raise and support my 4 children on my own, so I didn't feel the sting of wage inequality. I've probably spent a lot more of my working life either as an independent contractor or an entrepreneur, so if I had a shitty boss, I had no one to blame but me.


            Richard ... Don't be deceived by an avatar. I really am a non-violent person and have been able to handle situations without much poking of eyes and kicking. lol. I prefer to just remove myself from situations and relationships that don't work for me.
            The time period - 1972 - 1975. The place was Michigan.

            Suzanne - you are very fortunate to never have had to put up with any of this kind of thing. I'm sure if you think back, you might realize you were, and just put it out of your head. I was adventurous and went for non-traditional jobs.

            First off - I never did work for a boss like that. This happened to me twice during interviews and I got up and left the interviews -- with a few choice words on the way out. I also had 2 bosses pull the "put out or get out" crap on me. One ended up jobless and I was given his position. The other one was after I'd worked at the crisis center and I was pretty privy to all the tricks. I just shook my head and told him "if you were worth being with, you'd be able to seduce me, so lets avoid the ugly rumors about your lack of prowess", and I went back to work. Never heard another word about it from him. He wasn't top guy - I probably could have chewed him up and spit him out if I'd reported it, but I left it right there since he wasn't brave enough to approach me again.

            The last time was just a nutcase and it was in 2001. He was my supervisor and was just sticken by me for some reason. He attempted to keep me out of a promotion and it would have taken me out of his department. I ignored him and so did everyone else mostly. I still got the promotion. This guy wasn't "sexist" - he was a nut job. I ended up reporting him at work when he started driving around 25 miles out of his way to drive back and forth past my house for hours on days off. At that point I figured he was a danger and I thought the company might be able to put some reigns on him - otherwise it would have been the police. The company was very good about handling it. Not sure if it would have been the same story twenty years before that.

            Part of my problem was that I was young, cute, and had an innocent (read: stupid) look to me, I think. It's either the times or the change in my appearance - I rarely have any problems these days.

            I'm not saying the work incidents were mainstream, however, they were more common that most people realize. I didn't realize how common til I worked at the crisis center. We were fighting some real attitudes in the courts. One case that really stands out was the woman who's friend called upset in the middle of the night, so she got up and threw on a sweatshirt and jeans and drove over there. Her car broke down on the way and a guy stopped to "help" and raped her. She lost the case because she hadn't had a bra on. You should have been with us when we introduced rape kits (evidence kits), to the police stations. Holy cow. What a lark. That was in 79 and we were doing outreach training at the stations - that the raped are the victims not the perpetrators.

            Steve - I wanted a ligation because I didn't want kids, ever. I had to get off the pill and that was my choice of alternatives. Birth control was okay - but sterilization not? Your response was pretty much shocking. Who's business is it whether I have sex outside of wedlock or not? Are you saying I have to live by a man's code of morality - and how many of those opinions can be called other than hypocritical if that is how they see it. Does it bother them to have sex with "whores"? It's okay for them but not the women? Do you see that by trying to justify that one, you've shown exactly the type of thinking that I just listed as digusting? You cannot justify it. It's a double standard. Period. I've known women that have babies just because their husbands wanted them to. Sorry, that to me is, the self subservient attitude that Suzanne was talking about - and I have never been one to bend a knee. I was disgusted when doctors thought that it was my "man's" choice rather than mine. F*** that noise.

            I'm also a little set back that you think my video would go nowhere, although palladies did - it was the same damned thing. I knew without the cost of a good cameraman and the right advertising it wouldn't, too. That's why I wanted the funding. The fact they turned me down was only part of my reaction - it was their attitude when they did it that still gets me. It's pretty insulting that you think it wouldn't have made money for me just as well as the people it did make the money for. Thanks. Now I know you're opinion of me, huh? I've met people since those days that actually wanted to help me put out a different one.
            Signature

            Sal
            When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
            Beyond the Path

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            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
              Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

              Steve - I wanted a ligation because I didn't want kids, ever. I had to get off the pill and that was my choice of alternatives. Birth control was okay - but sterilization not? Your response was pretty much shocking. Who's business is it whether I have sex outside of wedlock or not? Are you saying I have to live by a man's code of morality - and how many of those opinions can be called other than hypocritical if that is how they see it. Does it bother them to have sex with "whores"? It's okay for them but not the women? Do you see that by trying to justify that one, you've shown exactly the type of thinking that I just listed as digusting? You cannot justify it. It's a double standard. Period. I've known women that have babies just because their husbands wanted them to. Sorry, that to me is, the self subservient attitude that Suzanne was talking about - and I have never been one to bend a knee. I was disgusted when doctors thought that it was my "man's" choice rather than mine. F*** that noise.
              First off, I thought you were talking about a time more like the 60s. I just couldn't imagine it being much later. And I was talking about the CULTURE. Yeah, they WERE hypocritical, but publicly were more demanding. HEY, I was trying t make SOME sense of it. I think it was somewhat gone by the 70s though. The guys interviewing you may have been underlings etc... HECK, they USED to ask women for marital status BUT, I believe it was before 1980, it became illegal in such a venue as it was NOT to be a criteria in hiring. My mother was an office manager/book keeper, and had to worry about such things.

              I'm also a little set back that you think my video would go nowhere, although palladies did - it was the same damned thing.
              You missed my point TOTALLY! I meant that ***I*** wouldn't have given you the money(unless I figured you could repay with it being a total flop), because I would have, and DID, figure it was a flop! YEAH, I watched that stuff take off when it did, and was SHOCKED.

              I was saying NOTHING about YOU! For all I know, YOU could have done it better and faster! I was simply saying ***I*** didn't think it would take off, and can understand why another would feel the same way.

              THAT is why I mentioned Jack la lanne! I didn't think HE would make it either, but he DID!

              Did you know a guy once laughed at the idea of arnold coming here, and again at being in movies? With THAT accent, etc? So HEY, people are WRONG sometimes.

              I knew without the cost of a good cameraman and the right advertising it wouldn't, too. That's why I wanted the funding. The fact they turned me down was only part of my reaction - it was their attitude when they did it that still gets me. It's pretty insulting that you think it wouldn't have made money for me just as well as the people it did make the money for. Thanks. Now I know you're opinion of me, huh?
              YEAH, their reaction was horrible. ***I*** wouldn't have laughed.

              And HOW could you think that your telling me that you once wanted to do this would lead me to change my opinion of you? I don't know WHAT you look like, or WHAT you would have done, or how good you would have been.

              I simply was trying to say that, AT THE TIME, the CONCEPT would have seemed, to many, unlikely to turn a profit.

              Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
              Banned
              Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

              The time period - 1972 - 1975. The place was Michigan.

              Suzanne - you are very fortunate to never have had to put up with any of this kind of thing. I'm sure if you think back, you might realize you were, and just put it out of your head. I was adventurous and went for non-traditional jobs.
              Suffice it to say Sal, that when I say discrimination against women had minimal impact on my life, I mean really minimal and I'm not even comfortable at all comparing it with racial discrimination. I was never concerned that I or any part of my family would be hung for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. My children weren't herded off to "black" schools, black pools, black hotels, etc. I never had to fear death for being in a "sundown" city after dark. There's so much more, but we all know history.

              I have a blended family. Two of my beloved grandchildren are "black." I have a son-in-law that I adore who is black. I couldn't have chosen a better husband for my daughter if I had hand-picked him myself.

              So, racial discrimination is just as relevant to me as discrimination against women. There are plenty of women who have reason to carry that torch, much more so than I do, so I'll let them carry it. In a youth based industry at one time, the only discrimination I actually was impacted by is age discrimination and I took care of that quite handily by becoming my own boss.

              Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

              Steve - I wanted a ligation because I didn't want kids, ever. I had to get off the pill and that was my choice of alternatives. Birth control was okay - but sterilization not? Your response was pretty much shocking. Who's business is it whether I have sex outside of wedlock or not? Are you saying I have to live by a man's code of morality - and how many of those opinions can be called other than hypocritical if that is how they see it. Does it bother them to have sex with "whores"? It's okay for them but not the women? Do you see that by trying to justify that one, you've shown exactly the type of thinking that I just listed as digusting? You cannot justify it. It's a double standard. Period. I've known women that have babies just because their husbands wanted them to. Sorry, that to me is, the self subservient attitude that Suzanne was talking about - and I have never been one to bend a knee. I was disgusted when doctors thought that it was my "man's" choice rather than mine. F*** that noise.
              The reason that you were denied is because you had no children. Doctors were/are very hesitant to do a permanent birth control procedure on someone who has no children. Here I was, single with 4 children to raise and they asked me over and over again ... am I sure I want to do this ... all the way right up to the operating table. I finally said, Doc ... I have 4 to raise by myself already. Barring a catastrophe of epic proportions, I have as many or more children than anyone needs. I'm glad I have every one of them, but enough is enough.

              I know women who have no children that have the operation, so I'm sure there are doctors who will do it and I agree completely ... it should be your choice ... not a doctors' or husbands' or boyfriends or whatever. If a woman does not want children, is it really in the best interest of possible children born to prevent her from having reliable permanent birth control?
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      • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        I've never had a man say that my only job or any part of my job was to serve a male. If they had, it would have been the last conversation we had together.
        Quite right, I'd like to think you'd poke him in the eyes before a swift one between the legs too.

        There's a very big difference between a woman choosing to date, or live with, or marry a moron and inequality due to race. One is a choice ... the other is not. It would be a more accurate comparison of the discrimination that women face to compare mens' and womens' incomes given identical qualifications and same with promotions.
        Quite right again. Although I think the income situation over here at least is pretty equal, I think over here it's the very highly paid jobs that men dominate, that have that problem still.

        One thing though, wherever Sal is, she's in the wrong place. Chivalry isn't dead where I come from and I can't think of a worse attempt to enter into a relationship with a lady if I expected her to be a slave to me.

        What's in it for her exactly?

        Well, I can think of one thing but Suzanne would have just kicked it.
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        Wibble, bark, my old man's a mushroom etc...

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  • Profile picture of the author DubDubDubDot
    KKK aren't what they used to be. They have no violent influence anymore with the authorities monitoring them so closely. If they stepped out of line you would know about it. It would be a major news story.

    They are now just a pro-white ideological group that is against everything that isn't white. Every racial group in America has an equivalent fringe organization.

    The key difference is that there isn't an air of pro-white ideology in America that influences white people in general to act out against other races. You can say what you want to about the KKK, but minority groups in America have very little reason to fear random physical violence by whites. It's something that is very rare.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by DubDubDubDot View Post

      They are now just a pro-white ideological group that is against everything that isn't white. Every racial group in America has an equivalent fringe organization.

      The key difference is that there isn't an air of pro-white ideology in America that influences white people in general to act out against other races. You can say what you want to about the KKK, but minority groups in America have very little reason to fear random physical violence by whites. It's something that is very rare.
      I would even argue that they aren't pro white. We have enough trouble in the US with all the PC PC(YEAH, I meant to type it twice) groups saying basically that whites don't even go to sleep because they spend 24 hours of every day trying to get rich and hurt all PC groups as much as they can while doing so. We don't need the KKK or "neonazis" making things WORSE.

      Frankly, whether it is giving a tip, paying for a service, working for, or providing a service to a person or company, or just helping out or being friendly, I don't even care about the sex or race of the person. I can HOPE they afford ME the same courtesy.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Heysal,

    I KNOW they treated some women bad in the 60s and earlier, but I NEVER heard about THAT stuff. Where were you?

    #1 DOES make sense. If you aren't married, in that time, WHY would you want that operation.(Tink about the CULTURE, NOT what promiscuous people might want) as for the other? There was a L&O SVU episode that shows how this could be. A woman lied, and was pregnant by another man. A man was nice enough to believe her and marry her, and she stole money from him for an abortion and kept all from him. He WANTED a child and would settle for the fact that she simply couldn't have a child. He ended up leaving her because it was all a lie.

    #2 I don't know. If there were few gainful jobs for women, they may have simply wanted a cosigner. I had to do the SAME thing to get my first car. My father cosigned.

    #3 sounds WAY out of line for ANY time in the US.(I'm NOT saying I don't believe you, only that they hopefully never did that at many places here)

    #4 is LUDICROUS! (I'm NOT saying I don't believe you, only that they hopefully never did that at many places here)

    I love lucy is a BAD example! She plays a narcissistic lazy jerk with NO idea what is going on. Frankly, EVEN TODAY, I wouldn't want to help out a person like that AT ALL! And that has NOTHING to do with her sex. She started a couple businesses, and failed at EVERY one!

    Looking at 9 to 5, or mary tyler moore, is probably closer to reality. Listen to the theme song of MTM, and watch the first episode, where she applies for the job. HECK, even the way she throws up her hat. It is reminiscent of graduating from college though she only got a mid level job at a paper.

    9 to 5, theme song AND plot, are ALL about how women were treated by some egotistical bullies, just because they were women.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
      Steve,

      Tone it down a couple of notches.

      Sal was speaking from her experiences. Ya know...real life.

      She lived it. That makes her qualified to speak about it and be heard
      without being attacked, questioned or ridiculed by someone who didn't.

      Show some respect, would ya?
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by Ron Lafuddy View Post

        Steve,

        Tone it down a couple of notches.

        Sal was speaking from her experiences. Ya know...real life.

        She lived it. That makes her qualified to speak about it and be heard
        without being attacked, questioned or ridiculed by someone who didn't.

        Show some respect, would ya?
        HOW did I not show respect? I never laughed. I ridiculed lucy's character on I love lucy(SHE ysed it as an example!) with regard to business. Did you just not watch the shows?

        She once created her aunt marthas salad dressing, and NEVER figured the cost in. She ended up losing money!

        She was once given money by a money manager for certain receipts, so she got food for neighbors and AGAIN didn't do well.

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    BTW heysal,

    For what it is worth, I would have said #2 was cute but wouldn't be profitable also. YEAH, I know, it is a multibillion dollar industry now, etc...

    Then again, when I was a kid, I saw this guy dressed in a kind of leotard thing, showing simple exercises, etc... It was on UHF as I recall. He seemed to be in good shape, but I doubt through those exercises. It was a LONG time before I found he was well known in certain circles. He even created a number of gyms, and sold them for a tidy profit, etc... His name was Jack La Lane(sp?).

    Go figure. Don't just assume that is sexism.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    I think the KKK still has quite a following in this country.

    The racial ugliness directed toward the present POTUS is evidence of their numbers.

    IMHO, not everyone that opposes the present POTUS racist - but many of them are.

    These people can't really make their feelings public but they are here in this country.

    The election of the nation's first non-European POTUS brought a lot of feeling out of the woodwork.

    They felt this country was theirs and theirs alone and they also felt they were special because they were white.

    A black POTUS totally upset their world view in many ways and many of them were also seriously embarrassed in front of their children.

    Imagine a person telling their children that this country is white people's country and we'll never allow a black to be POTUS - but then it happens.

    IMHO, most of them decided the next best thing to do was to become a "birther".

    What would someone who supported "Birtherism" be...

    ... but someone who is ignorant as hell...

    ... or someone so racist that they would want to believe that anyone could ascend to the POTUS and somehow not actually be eligible for the office?

    I almost forgot to mention the opportunists who promoted the garbage and a few of them are black such as Alan Keys.

    At one time at least 40% of voters of a certain party were not sure if #44 was actually eligible for the office.

    Who Are the Birthers? - CBS News


    Racism Rears Its Ugly Head In America:

    - A judge in Montana even disparaged the POTUS mother.

    - Lots of local politicians said lots of ugly race based things about the POTUS.

    - Radio talk show hosts had a big hand in the ugliness and fanned the flames.

    - The online world helped the racists concentrate and interject their racism far and wide.

    - Millions of parents would not allow their kids to hear the annual & normally non issue back to school message from the new POTUS.

    - Lead by the right-wing media and then followed by the MSM ...

    ... the POTUS was forced to make public his long form birth-certificate and of course his enemies claimed it was a fake.



    IMHO, one of the primary reasons the man is POTUS today is racism.


    How could that be?

    Well the conspiracy theory goes like this...


    After the terrible record of the admin of #43 and the looming economic crash of 2008, the powers that be (TPTB) understood that there was no way the American public was going to return the party in power back to the POTUS - ...

    ...especially with Hillary Clinton running from the other side.

    It was a foregone conclusion with TPTB that the POTUS would change hands to someone that wouldn't be as friendly towards their plans as the other party.

    So, when the Jr. senator from Illinois threw his hat into the ring and unexpectedly won the Iowa primary, the plot was hatched.

    It goes something like this...

    Let's pump up the black guy and maybe he'll win the democratic nomination away from Hillary - who is pretty sure to win the POTUS if she gets the Dem nomination.

    Then, because they believed the vast majority of whites (like 80%) will not vote for a black person for POTUS, they thought they had a great chance to retain the WH.

    They understood that they needed a total of about 80% of whites to not vote for the black guy in order for the plan to work.

    Many whites won't vote democratic anyways because the dem party is perceived as the party of non-whites by many white people - especially in the American south.

    Dem POTUS candidates normally don't get more than 45% of the white vote so they thought pushing that to less than 25% - with a black guy running - wouldn't be that hard of a task.

    So the primaries commenced and...

    Except for a bump in the road with the controversy of his former pastor -Reverend Wright, (which could not be ignored since it was egged on by Hillary followers),

    ... the Jr. Senator could do no wrong as far as the major media was concerned.

    The plan was once he actually secured the nomination, the friendly coverage would reverse and along with the hope that the vast majority of white voters would not vote for a black guy TPTB thought they had a great chance to retain the WH.

    I knew something was up when the media was falling all over him during the primaries and predicted the coverage would change if he secured the nomination - and it did.

    At many opponent campaign rallies shouts of "kill him" were often heard when his name was mentioned.

    But...

    The whole plan backfired big time.

    Why?

    1: The candidate and his organization was much savvier than they expected.

    2: The candidate had a new way of raising money - from the internet, that caught TPTB by surprise and actually outspent his opponent and his friends by over 200 million dollars during the election cycle.


    BTW...

    Later TPBT tried to counter this problem by getting the SCOTUS to rewrite the campaign finance laws.


    Moving along...

    3: They had actually helped create a rock-star type of candidate -the youth of the country loved him and voted for him at least 60% and surprisingly they also came out to vote.

    Another surprise for TPTB was he had a 21st century electronic and ground organization backed by the most money ever spent in American history.

    They created a monster.

    4: They could not get 80% of whites in the battleground states to vote against him - for any reason, which is what they needed in order to win the battleground states which were the key to winning the WH.

    Of course...

    - They easily got up to 90% of the white voters in the southern states to vote against him but that was a forgone conclusion and didn't matter - but the key was the battleground states.

    BTW...

    - White leaders in the battleground states had to say stuff like "I'd rather have a black friend in the WH instead of a white enemy in the WH.

    This is about our economic future and we can not have more of the same in that important office."



    Here's a story from the Obama campaign trail in 2008...

    A campaign field worker knocks on a door in the middle of Pennsylvania and asked the lady of the house who they will be voting for.

    The lady says wait a minute, let me ask my husband.

    The lady shouts, honey who are we voting for?

    The hubby shouts back...

    "We're voting for the N-Word".

    - TPTB didn't understand that in most parts of the country - economics trumps everything.

    - No only did TPTB lose the WH but they lost the house and the POTUS party also had 60 votes in the senate - meaning they could do just about anything they wanted to- for at least the next 2 years.

    - With the passage of the ACA, their long planned "roll-back" of the new deal would not only have to wait but a new part of the American safety net had been added - much to their chagrin.

    And the rest is history...
    Signature

    "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      I think the KKK still has quite a following in this country.

      The racial ugliness directed toward the present POTUS is evidence of their numbers.

      IMHO, not everyone that opposes the present POTUS is racist but many of them are.
      Most of them AREN'T! HECK, LISTEN to them sometimes! And a number of his detractors are BLACK! GIVE ME A BREAK!

      These people can't make their feelings public but they are here in this country.
      They can and DO.

      They felt this country was theirs and theirs alone and they also felt they were special because they were white and a black POTUS totally upset their world view and many OF them were also embarrassed in front of their children.


      I think you are confusing this with NAZI germany.

      IMHO, most of them decided the next best thing to do was to become a "birther".
      I KNOW you never listened to THEM! One thing you just said is that his Father wasn't a person from kenya! STILL, MCCAIN actually had to get a document from CONGRESS saying that HE was a natural born citizen. https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/110/sres511/text


      I almost forgot to mention the opportunists who promoted the garbage and a few of them are black such as Alan Keys.
      Are you saying alan keys is where he is because he figured he could win the presidency, and wanted to hurt obama just to do so? WOW!

      At one time at least 40% of voters of a certain party were not sure if #44 was actually eligible for the office.
      Reasonable, since you don't expect such things. A LAYERED document from 1961? YEAH RIGHT! The CONCEPT didn't exist until DECADES later! The PROGRAM didn't exist until DECADES later! NONE of the computers supporting it existed until DECADES LATER! I was SHOCKED when I saw that. They DID group the layers, but you can still see the layers in te group. Normally, I would figure it was a scam or something, but I tried it myself with a file from the whitehouse. Why was it released? Of course, they can't change it because that would create questions if someone noticed it. As of a couple weeks ago, they didn't change it.

      - A judge in Montana even disparaged the POTUS mother.

      - Lots of local politicians said lots of ugly race based things about the POTUS.

      - Radio talk show hosts had a big hand in the ugliness.

      - The online world helped the racists concentrate and interject their racism far and wide.



      IMHO, one of the primary reasons the man is POTUS today is racism.


      How could that be?

      Well the conspiracy theory goes like this...
      OK, I haven't heard ANY of that. Could you provide examples?

      After the economic crash of 2008, the powers that be (TPTB) understood that there was no way the American public was going to return the party in power back to the POTUS - especially with Hillary Clinton running from the other side.

      It was a foregone conclusion with TPTB that the POTUS would change hands to someone that wouldn't be as friendly towards their plans as the other party.

      So, when the Jr. senator from Illinois threw his hat into the ring and unexpectedly won the Iowa primary, the plot was hatched.

      It goes like this...
      WOW, what a theory. They guys responsible for the problem are mostly still there though.

      Let's pump up the black guy and maybe he'll win the democratic nomination away from Hillary.

      Then, because they believed the vast majority of whites (like 80%) will not vote for a black person for POTUS, they thought they had a great chance to retain the WH.

      They understood that they needed a total of about 80% of whites to not vote for the black guy in order for the plan to work.

      Many whites won't vote democratic anyways because the dem party is perceived as the party of non-whites by many white people - especially in the American south.
      MAN are you wrong. HCK, nearly all of my family, on BOTH sides would have voted AGAINST anyone on the same side as mccain!

      So the primaries commenced and...

      Except for a bump in the road with the controversy of his former pastor -Reverend Wright, (which could not be ignored since it was egged on by Hillary followers),

      ... the Jr. Senator could do no wrong as far as the major media was concerned.
      How could THAT be? You said the major media was NOT biased towards him and just now said they would NOT want him to win, since so many are white.

      At many GOP campaign rallies shouts of "kill him" were often heard when his name was mentioned.
      EXAMPLES PLEASE?

      1: The candidate and his organization was much savvier than they expected.
      DREAM ON!

      2: The candidate had a new way of raising money - from the internet, that caught TPTB by surprise and actually outspent his opponent and his friends by over 200 million dollars during the election cycle.
      YEP! Run a bunch of CRASS lotteries promising that you could enter for as little as $3 and maybe have dinner with the president at an event and meat a few celebrities. And THEN point to how your average donation is so low. That is pretty CRASS for a national leader or candidate!


      TPBT tried to counter this problem by getting the SCOTUS to rewrite the campaign finance laws.
      Actually, the OTHER side did, and STILL IS..

      OK, TALK ABOUT TWADDLE! I'm tired of reading this.

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        Most of them AREN'T! HECK, LISTEN to them sometimes! And a number of his detractors are BLACK! GIVE ME A BREAK!



        They can and DO.



        I think you are confusing this with NAZI germany.



        I KNOW you never listened to THEM! One thing you just said is that his Father wasn't a person from kenya! STILL, MCCAIN actually had to get a document from CONGRESS saying that HE was a natural born citizen. https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/110/sres511/text




        Are you saying alan keys is where he is because he figured he could win the presidency, and wanted to hurt obama just to do so? WOW!



        Reasonable, since you don't expect such things. A LAYERED document from 1961? YEAH RIGHT! The CONCEPT didn't exist until DECADES later! The PROGRAM didn't exist until DECADES later! NONE of the computers supporting it existed until DECADES LATER! I was SHOCKED when I saw that. They DID group the layers, but you can still see the layers in te group. Normally, I would figure it was a scam or something, but I tried it myself with a file from the whitehouse. Why was it released? Of course, they can't change it because that would create questions if someone noticed it. As of a couple weeks ago, they didn't change it.



        OK, I haven't heard ANY of that. Could you provide examples?



        WOW, what a theory. They guys responsible for the problem are mostly still there though.



        MAN are you wrong. HCK, nearly all of my family, on BOTH sides would have voted AGAINST anyone on the same side as mccain!



        How could THAT be? You said the major media was NOT biased towards him and just now said they would NOT want him to win, since so many are white.



        EXAMPLES PLEASE?



        DREAM ON!



        YEP! Run a bunch of CRASS lotteries promising that you could enter for as little as $3 and maybe have dinner with the president at an event and meat a few celebrities. And THEN point to how your average donation is so low. That is pretty CRASS for a national leader or candidate!




        Actually, the OTHER side did, and STILL IS..

        OK, TALK ABOUT TWADDLE! I'm tired of reading this.

        Steve
        Sir, you are entitled - which means one and/or a combo of the following.

        a: I'm not going back and forth with you. (maybe we've already done that and I don't have further time or inclination)

        b: Your response is such nonsense IMHO, and/or all over the place with non sequiturs its not worth my time to respond.

        c: You are entitled to your opinion and we have a difference of opinion - great.
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        • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
          As a foreigner to this debate I'm glad I'm here in silly little England. I'm pleased to say where I am at least, most black people and white people just don't have these issues. Most of the racial stuff here seems to be on religious lines, not colour.

          Don't mind me though, I'm hugely unqualified to comment on the subject but learning nonetheless.
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          • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
            Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

            As a foreigner to this debate I'm glad I'm here in silly little England. I'm pleased to say where I am at least, most black people and white people just don't have these issues. Most of the racial stuff here seems to be on religious lines, not colour.

            Don't mind me though, I'm hugely unqualified to comment on the subject but learning nonetheless.
            I hope you don't make the mistake of thinking there is a lot of personal racial animus with the everyday comings and goings of the vast majority of Americans because that is not the case.

            The racial stuff is mostly on the fringes and does flare up from time to time (egged on by the professionals) but its nothing like it was 30-50 years ago.

            For example, many foreigners think the Travon Martin/George Zimmerman affair was about race but in reality it was about left and right.

            Why? IMHO...

            99% of the people who thought what Zimmerman did was OK also happened to be on the right side of most issues and vice-versa.
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            • Profile picture of the author socialentry
              Banned
              Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

              I hope you don't make the mistake of thinking there is a lot of personal racial animus with the everyday comings and goings of the vast majority of Americans because that is not the case.
              No but to say your country is deeply divided would be an understatement.
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              • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

                No but to say your country is deeply divided would be an understatement.

                We definitely are divided along political lines and that is very true.

                I also said there is a contingent of racists in this country and the election of #44 brought them out of the woodwork.
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                • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                  Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                  I also said there is a contingent of racists in this country and the election of #44 brought them out of the woodwork.
                  Yeah, like carter saying blacks were SO perfect that Obama was so INCREDIBLY perfect that NOBODY ****ON THE PLANET**** could say anything against him! Since people said things against him, ALL those are RACIST! BTW that includes people in his party and blacks.

                  Steve
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                  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                    Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                    Yeah, like carter saying blacks were SO perfect that Obama was so INCREDIBLY perfect that NOBODY ****ON THE PLANET**** could say anything against him! Since people said things against him, ALL those are RACIST! BTW that includes people in his party and blacks.

                    Steve
                    He didn't say any of that blacks are perfect crap.

                    All Carter said was there's a lot of white people in the south that don't like Obama because he's black and the media turned in into Carter says all white people don't like Obama because he's black.

                    Given the history of this country I don't see how anyone could disagree with what Carter actually said.
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                    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                      He didn't say any of that blacks are perfect crap.

                      All Carter said was there's a lot of white people in the south that don't like Obama because he's black and the media turned in into Carter says all white people don't like Obama because he's black.

                      Given the history of this country I don't see how anyone could disagree with what Carter actually said.
                      Speaking as someone from the north, there are a lot of white people up here that don't like him because he's black also.
                      I still get in arguments with some of them over that.
                      As you already know, I'm not a fan of many of his policies.
                      I was hoping he would of ended many of Bush's policies instead of continuing them.
                      But I have not seen him make any policies that where based on his skin color.
                      Now I do think many voted for him because of his skin color. They wanted to be a part of electing the first black president. I also think many voted against him because of his skin color. I don't think either side was right in using that as a reason to vote or not vote for him.
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                    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                      He didn't say any of that blacks are perfect crap.

                      All Carter said was there's a lot of white people in the south that don't like Obama because he's black and the media turned in into Carter says all white people don't like Obama because he's black.

                      Given the history of this country I don't see how anyone could disagree with what Carter actually said.
                      YES HE DID! If the blacks were imperfect in ********ANY******** way, a person could find fault! If they THEN complained, the complaint might be legit!

                      To say ALL attacks, or even the majority, are RACISM, is to say that he is perfect in all those respects.

                      To be clear, I NEVER thought ANYONE was perfect, and certainly not any president, and most of them happened to be white.

                      HEY, if I were black, and complained about a white president, and someone said my VALID complaint was just racism, I would complain in the SAME fashion, and THEN you would agree with me.

                      Steve
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                      • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                        YES HE DID! If the blacks were imperfect in ********ANY******** way, a person could find fault! If they THEN complained, the complaint might be legit!

                        To say ALL attacks, or even the majority, are RACISM, is to say that he is perfect in all those respects.

                        To be clear, I NEVER thought ANYONE was perfect, and certainly not any president, and most of them happened to be white.

                        HEY, if I were black, and complained about a white president, and someone said my VALID complaint was just racism, I would complain in the SAME fashion, and THEN you would agree with me.

                        Steve
                        Sir, you are entitled.
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            • Profile picture of the author Midnight Oil
              Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

              I hope you don't make the mistake of thinking there is a lot of personal racial animus with the everyday comings and goings of the vast majority of Americans because that is not the case.

              The racial stuff is mostly on the fringes and does flare up from time to time (egged on by the professionals) but its nothing like it was 30-50 years ago.
              Worth repeating.
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          • Profile picture of the author ThomM
            It goes something like this...

            Let's pump up the black guy and maybe he'll win the democratic nomination away from Hillary - who is pretty sure to win the POTUS if she gets the Dem nomination.
            Actually it was George Soros who backed Obama against Clinton.
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            • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
              Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

              Actually it was George Soros who backed Obama against Clinton.
              And the entire media IMHO.
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        • Profile picture of the author Midnight Oil
          I grew up through my early twenties living back and forth between two small towns outside of Atlanta. One of those had, and has, a sometimes visible klan presence. It wasn't uncommon to see them from time to time on one of the busier intersections in town, all dressed out (some would have their faces covered, some wouldn't). Lots of signs and leaflets. Never saw a burning cross, but have driven by a couple that had been burned the night before.

          Daniel Carver was the well known klansman around town. I don't recall exactly how their organizational chart works, so I don't know if he was the main guy, but he was certainly one of the most vocal. I know he was an Imperial Wizard or Grand Poobah or some such nonsense. He was volatile enough that the klan eventually kicked him out for making terroristic threats during one of his marches on a black neighborhood in town. I've read that he pops up on Howard Stern's radio show from time to time.

          I held my own one-man counter protest against his bunch once in front of a restaurant in town where they liked to assemble. Just me, myself and my sad looking little white poster board with a "Kooks, Krazies and Klowns" slogan scrawled in black magic marker. Silly slogan, I know, but I was young and just wanted to show them what I thought of them. It didn't last too long. I was asked to leave because I didn't have a permit (no, the cop wasn't white). Still, they had time to see me and my little sign.

          The first thing I ever had published was a scathing commentary about that bunch in the local paper a couple of weeks later. Funny thing about small towns, once you publish something like that locally, some folks get concerned about you real quick. And then you start finding out who some of the less visible members are. A school teacher here, a doctor there, a well-known businessman down the street. They aren't always the hillbilly asshats they're often portrayed as, although I've also met a few of those. They would sometimes drift through our all night lake parties, usually the friend of a friend's friend or someone's cousin they got stuck with for a weekend.

          A couple of years later I was at the big march in nearby Forsyth County, led by Hosea Williams. Overall, a very peaceful march from what I saw, other than a a handful of whites and blacks spitting at each other and exchanging cross words. There was a pretty big group of counter-protesters, but like the marchers themselves, most were out-of-towners.

          I'll never forget Hosea, though. I was already aware of his past contributions to the civil rights movement, but my respect for him only grew over the years after that march. The work he did through Hosea Feed The Hungry and Homeless was just inspiring, and it still continues fourteen years after his death. One of the Atlanta rock stations would have him on as a morning guest from time to time, and even though he could be sharp with his criticisms, he was always so down-to-earth, humble and thoughtful, and his heart for people always came through. Nothing at all like the self-promoting, race-pimping Sharpton.

          No real point to my post. Just thinking back over some personal experiences on a Saturday morning as I've been reading through the thread.
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