Some pretty historical stuff took place in Indian politics today!

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For the first time in 30 years, any single party got a majority (and not a Coalition).
First time in history, any party other than the Congress party got a full majority.
First time a Chief Minister of State (akin to a Governor in US), will become the Prime Minister of the country.
The Congress Party - the only other national party - which has ruled India for most part of its history, has been reduced to double digit number of seats (less than 50 seats as of now out of a total of 543 but votes are still being counted).
Some big names from the last government are losing badly from their pocket borough constituencies (constituencies that have been held by their fathers and grandfathers.)
Most of the ministers from the last cabinet are losing/have lost.
Our stock markets hit all-time high this morning.

This is the greatest political reordering that has taken place since I've been born. And the thing I like about it is, Narendra Modi is a pro-capitalism political leader in an otherwise socialist country. He is a big-government capitalist but a capitalist nonetheless.

Hopefully, he'll steer the country into the right direction.

Sumit.
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Well, that's news, Sumit. I just hope it turns out to be real good news for you all over there. I hope we have one hella shake up here in Nov, too.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Originally Posted by Sumit Menon View Post

    For the first time in 30 years, any single party got a majority (and not a Coalition).
    First time in history, any party other than the Congress party got a full majority.
    First time a Chief Minister of State (akin to a Governor in US), will become the Prime Minister of the country.
    The Congress Party - the only other national party - which has ruled India for most part of its history, has been reduced to double digit number of seats (less than 50 seats as of now out of a total of 543 but votes are still being counted).
    Some big names from the last government are losing badly from their pocket borough constituencies (constituencies that have been held by their fathers and grandfathers.)
    Most of the ministers from the last cabinet are losing/have lost.
    Our stock markets hit all-time high this morning.

    This is the greatest political reordering that has taken place since I've been born. And the thing I like about it is, Narendra Modi is a pro-capitalism political leader in an otherwise socialist country. He is a big-government capitalist but a capitalist nonetheless.

    Hopefully, he'll steer the country into the right direction.

    Sumit.
    GOOD LUCK! The same sorts of things are happening world wide, I hope this time around the change will be better for the countries.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Sumit Menon
    US had rejected Narendra Modi's visa application previously, btw. He does not have a visa to enter America.
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Originally Posted by Sumit Menon View Post

    For the first time in 30 years, any single party got a majority (and not a Coalition).
    First time in history, any party other than the Congress party got a full majority.
    First time a Chief Minister of State (akin to a Governor in US), will become the Prime Minister of the country.
    The Congress Party - the only other national party - which has ruled India for most part of its history, has been reduced to double digit number of seats (less than 50 seats as of now out of a total of 543 but votes are still being counted).
    Some big names from the last government are losing badly from their pocket borough constituencies (constituencies that have been held by their fathers and grandfathers.)
    Most of the ministers from the last cabinet are losing/have lost.
    Our stock markets hit all-time high this morning.

    This is the greatest political reordering that has taken place since I've been born. And the thing I like about it is, Narendra Modi is a pro-capitalism political leader in an otherwise socialist country. He is a big-government capitalist but a capitalist nonetheless.

    Hopefully, he'll steer the country into the right direction.

    Sumit.
    Its got to be interesting when a party that has been in power for a long time loses its power.

    Sounds like lots of people were sick of the other guys and are willing to give the new folks a chance.


    What is the name of the new party in power?

    Can you tell me what was their theme message(s) that helped them get elected?

    I wonder what type of opposition party the Congress Party will be?

    How long before the nation turns back to that party?

    How long would you like it to be?

    I hope I'm not offending you by saying I think they did a decent job with the nation since independence.

    I could be wrong but they had to make a choice between building a bomb and economic development for the nation.

    The bomb was developed and now its time to move on to economic matters. From what I heard India has everything it needs to become economically, a first rate middle class nation.

    All the best to the fortunes of your people.


    BTW...

    In America from 1932 until 1952 one party held the POTUS and then Americans elected the head of the opposition party as POTUS.

    The next 20 years 1952-1972 one party held the POTUS 12 years and the other 8.

    From 1972-1992 it was 16 years to 4 years with the Ford= 4, Regan = 8 and Bush1 = 4 years.

    From 1992-2012 it was 12-8 in favor of the Dems.



    You spoke of direction...


    And what direction is that?


    What would you like the see happen on the national economic policy level?


    Anything, something, nothing? Should the feds stay out of it?


    You are now in charge of promoting the economic fortunes of the Indian Nation.


    What's the national debt situation?


    What's the Indian nation's GDP?


    What would you do Mr. Future Prime Minister?


    I'd love to hear your policy prescriptions for your nation's future - especially the economic ones.


    Thanks!


    TL
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    • Profile picture of the author Sumit Menon
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      Its got to be interesting when a party that has been in power for a long time loses its power. Sounds like lots of people were sick of the other guys and are willing to give the new folks a chance.

      I wonder what type of opposition party they will be.

      How long before the nation turns back to that party?

      How long would you like it to be?

      BTW...

      In America from 1932 until 1952 one party held the POTUS and then Americans elected the head of the opposition party as POTUS.



      And what direction is that?


      What would you like the see happen on the national economic policy level?



      Anything, something, nothing? Should the feds stay out of it?


      You are now in charge of promoting the economic fortunes of the Indian Nation.


      What's the Indian nation's GDP? What's the national debt situation?


      What would you do Mr. Future Prime Minister?


      I'd love to hear your policy prescriptions for your nation's future - especially the economic ones.


      Thanks!


      TL
      Okay...

      How long before the nation turns back to that party?
      How long would you like it to be?

      Ans: The nation will eventually turn back to the other party. It's not reasonable to expect that he is gonna stay in power for the rest of his life. I'd like him to win one more term in 2019. The other party will have to reinvent itself by then. Like after Reagan and Busk 41, Democrats nominated Clinton who was probably the most fiscal conservative President from the Democratic Party ever. After 12 years of Thatcher and I think 7 years of Major government, The Labour Party nominated Tony Blair who led the New Labour movement to reform the party. Similarly, Congress and the others around them, will have to reinvent themselves.

      And what direction is that?

      Ans: To the fiscal right.

      What would you like the see happen on the national economic policy level? Anything, something, nothing? Should the feds stay out of it?
      Ans: For starters, we are languishing at the bottom of the freedom to do business lists among all countries. We have a ranking of 100+. That needs to change. There are many obstacles to starting a business in India. You have to get permission from a whole lot of bodies even today to start certain kind of businesses.

      Secondly, inflation is out of check. We've had onion prices hitting Rs.80/kg for a few months in the last 3 years. They usually sell for Rs. 12/kg. Inflation needs to be managed. We've got a respectable RBI governor to take care of monetary policy. So, with decent fiscal and monetary policy it can be brought down. Our growth has gone down from 8.X% to 4.X% over the last few years. Sure some of it is to be blamed on the recession but it didn't affect us as badly as it did for the West. It is believed that if the economy had been better managed we could have sustained 6.X% levels.

      We need to be an attractive location for foreign investments. Our Forex reserve levels aren't very good. We have to open up our markets more and allow foreign investments there.

      The thing about Modi is he has done some of it before. He was the head of Indian state of Gujarat for three terms and has transformed the state. Until last year Gujarat was the place where most of the investments in India took place. It was the fastest growing state for a long time under him. The infrastructure in the state has improved vastly. He has put into motion various power plant projects many of them running on hydro-electricity. Gujarat was (and is still is) ranked highest on the Economic Freedom Index list for almost a decade I think. It was also the state where the Index grew the most last year.

      This is the first time we have a 'been there done that' kind of Prime Minister.

      What's the Indian nation's GDP? What's the national debt situation?
      Ans: We have a GDP of more than a trillion dollar. The GDP to debt ratio is 66% I think. It is difficult to get the info though, because no one talks about these things over here. In the first term of Congress led UPA coalition (2004-2009), the debt increased like Rs. 200 crores/day. In the second term, the number was Rs. 1600 crores/day. This happened mostly due to the social/populist schemes (MNREGA, Food Security Bill etc) that the Congress government implemented in the second term. The business community started losing faith over the last part of the regime and our economy is in trouble ever since.

      What would you do Mr. Future Prime Minister?
      Ans: Well, I would do a lot of other things rather than liberalizing the economy. There are public sector businesses that are running at billions of dollars in loses. Those need to be privatized. Grants should be provided for small businesses and the government should strike off all laws that act as an hindrance to starting a business. I'll give you one example. In India, if you want to start a medical school (I don't know about other type of schools), you need to be a non-profit organization. That is just stupid. We lack what 3 million doctors and that's because we don't have medical schools to train them.

      Apart from these, I have a lot of judicial (fast track courts, making Supreme Court an appellate court rather than a trial court, strengthening the powers of High court and lower courts etc.) and educational reforms (get rid of the reservation system based on caste and introduce a reservation system based on economic status and few others.) in mind. But, I don't think Modi is going to be implementing those. It was not on their agenda. But, neither was it on any of the agenda of other parties. So, I'll take what I get.

      Hope that answers all your questions.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      Its got to be interesting when a party that has been in power for a long time loses its power.

      Sounds like lots of people were sick of the other guys and are willing to give the new folks a chance.


      What is the name of the new party in power?

      Can you tell me what was their theme message that got them elected?

      I wonder what type of opposition party the Congress Party will be?

      How long before the nation turns back to that party?

      How long would you like it to be?

      I hope I'm not offending you by saying I think they did a decent job with the nation since independence.

      I could be wrong but they had to make a choice between building a bomb and economic development for the nation.

      The bomb was developed and now its time to move on to economic matters. From what I heard India has everything it needs to become economically, a first rate middle class nation.


      BTW...

      In America from 1932 until 1952 one party held the POTUS and then Americans elected the head of the opposition party as POTUS.

      The next 20 years 1952-1972 one party held the POTUS 12 years and the other 8.

      From 1972-1992 it was 16 years to 4 years with the Ford= 4, Regan = 8 and Bush1 = 4 years.

      From 1992-2012 it was 12-8 in favor of the Dems.



      You spoke of direction...


      And what direction is that?


      What would you like the see happen on the national economic policy level?


      Anything, something, nothing? Should the feds stay out of it?


      You are now in charge of promoting the economic fortunes of the Indian Nation.


      What's the national debt situation?


      What's the Indian nation's GDP?


      What would you do Mr. Future Prime Minister?


      I'd love to hear your policy prescriptions for your nation's future - especially the economic ones.


      Thanks!


      TL
      Sumit answered a lot of that towards the end of the post:

      This is the greatest political reordering that has taken place since I've been born. And the thing I like about it is, Narendra Modi is a pro-capitalism political leader in an otherwise socialist country. He is a big-government capitalist but a capitalist nonetheless.

      Hopefully, he'll steer the country into the right direction.
      I imagine people were just sick of the old party. From what I have seen of india, it could certainly be better on the whole. I'm sure sumit would agree.

      According to the CIA

      National GDP? The CIA says it is equivalent to $4.962 trillion (2013 est.).
      National DEBT? 51.8% and increasing. Apparently people startworrying when it gets to around 70%. The US is over 100%!
      5.7% budget deficit.
      9.6% inflation
      7.75% federal funds rate
      They have a maybe 30% trade deficit.
      The currency is falling against the dollar.

      What I gather, especially after talking to a lot of indians about this....

      So they certainly have more ability to easily improve than the US does.

      ANOTHER thing! I have heard that it is a lifelong endeavor to get to college in india. To hear some speak, you would think there is only ONE university you can really go to that is respected(though they have like 7 campuses and apparently or mythically respected). But it is very unlikely the average indian would ever be accepted.

      ANOTHER thing! Apparently NOBODY, not even an ethnic indian fluent in hindi, english, etc... born to two indian parents born in india, can ever vote in india unless they were BORN there!

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author Sumit Menon
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        Sumit answered a lot of that towards the end of the post:



        I imagine people were just sick of the old party. From what I have seen of india, it could certainly be better on the whole. I'm sure sumit would agree.

        According to the CIA

        National GDP? The CIA says it is equivalent to $4.962 trillion (2013 est.).
        National DEBT? 51.8% and increasing. Apparently people startworrying when it gets to around 70%. The US is over 100%!
        5.7% budget deficit.
        9.6% inflation
        7.75% federal funds rate
        They have a maybe 30% trade deficit.
        The currency is falling against the dollar.

        So they certainly have more ability to easily improve than the US does.

        Steve
        GDP according to wikipedia:
        $1.87 trillion (nominal)

        $5.07 trillion (PPP)

        US has the advantage that it is the reserve currency. If our debt was over our heads, most people would dump our currency and we'd be in serious shit. We saw a lot of that in the last year when the rupee almost hit 70 for a dollar.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by Sumit Menon View Post

          GDP according to wikipedia:
          $1.87 trillion (nominal)

          $5.07 trillion (PPP)

          US has the advantage that it is the reserve currency. If our debt was over our heads, most people would dump our currency and we'd be in serious shit. We saw a lot of that in the last year when the rupee almost hit 70 for a dollar.
          I was trying to be nice, to YKW, and used the highest number in CIA WB. But YEAH, you're right, they show 1.87T also.

          I actually said that, as a percentage of GDP, you have LESS debt than the US, and "certainly have more ability to easily improve than the US does.".

          Still, India has a LOT more people than the US. and they claim "29.8%" are below the poverty line. The US has "15.1% (2010 est.)" below the poverty line.

          Oh well, it will be interesting to see how things change. One would hope they improve the trade deficit, infrastructure, and regulations. I bet EVERYONE could benefit.

          Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author Sumit Menon
            Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

            I was trying to be nice, to YKW, and used the highest number in CIA WB. But YEAH, you're right, they show 1.87T also.

            I actually said that, as a percentage of GDP, you have LESS debt than the US, and "certainly have more ability to easily improve than the US does.".

            Still, India has a LOT more people than the US. and they claim "29.8%" are below the poverty line. The US has "15.1% (2010 est.)" below the poverty line.

            Oh well, it will be interesting to see how things change. One would hope they improve the trade deficit, infrastructure, and regulations. I bet EVERYONE could benefit.

            Steve
            There is no comparison between the US and Indian poverty line. In India if you are below the poverty line, you don't have enough money to put food on the table three times a day (and very likely you don't even own a table). Our poverty lines are according to the UN poverty line. You have your own federal poverty standards right? Our poverty is far higher than what the statistics show.
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            • Profile picture of the author HeySal
              Originally Posted by Sumit Menon View Post

              There is no comparison between the US and Indian poverty line. In India if you are below the poverty line, you don't have enough money to put food on the table three times a day (and very likely you don't even own a table). Our poverty lines are according to the UN poverty line. You have your own federal poverty standards right? Our poverty is far higher than what the statistics show.
              It is here, too, Sumit. We have millions of homeless and millions of people starving, even in a country where the middle class and above are convinced that social services take care of everyone.
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              • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                It is here, too, Sumit. We have millions of homeless and millions of people starving, even in a country where the middle class and above are convinced that social services take care of everyone.
                You're right, of course, but it IS hard to tell. A local talk radio show, only days agohad a whole show about all the "homeless" that may even be filthy rich. I WISH I could remember the name of the woman that had her son live in SQUALOR! EVERYONE thought she was POOR! Her son ended up losing an appendage because of her being such a cheapskate. When she died, they found out she was VERY rich!

                I wish I could remember the name, but there was one charity in california I LOVED! They basically housed men for like 6 months, and then KICKED THEM OUT! NICE CHARITY! The CATCH? They got the men nice clothes, cleaned them up, gave them basic training, and job assistance, along with amail and phone service. Decent workers would leave to a decent life with jobs at places that otherwise would probably have had the police escort them away!

                Steve
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                • Profile picture of the author Sumit Menon
                  Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                  It is here, too, Sumit. We have millions of homeless and millions of people starving, even in a country where the middle class and above are convinced that social services take care of everyone.
                  Obviously I am not gonna argue with you on that. I can't because I don't know how bad it is over there. But, I know how bad it is over here and I doubt it is as bad over there.

                  Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                  I realize that to a degree. HECK, if an indian made what the average american made every year, they would be ECSTATIC, which is why so many of you guys come here. STILL, because you make so much less, things cost less there ALSO. I have heard that some cities in india now cost a LOT, and even a rich american might have trouble buying them. But we have the same thing in the US. A couple people moved into a little development, now known as hollywood. Some parts of IT are CHEAP(but not worth it), but a town on the outskirts, called beverly hills, can be expensive.

                  Still, to judge this, a person would have to know the culture, ethics, pay, and cost in both areas. Few do. Even most of the people that come here from india are likely to be the richer and have lives closer to the west. That is primarily due to the fact that they are SUPPOSED to be able to communicate in english, have a college education, and be sponsored by an employer or close relative here.

                  Steve
                  I agree. All I'm saying is I'd rather be poor in America than in India.

                  And yes, some of the property prices are astronomical in Mumbai. I've heard residential properties being sold for Rs.80K/sq.ft. Now a normal small two bedroom apartment has like 750 sq.ft (you have to include some area outside the apartment too). This comes out to be around a million dollars for a two-bedroom apartment. I bet a lot of Americas can't afford that.

                  In an area called Malabar Hill, some of the properties go for 135K/sq.ft.
                  Malabar Hill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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                  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                    Originally Posted by Sumit Menon View Post

                    Obviously I am not gonna argue with you on that. I can't because I don't know how bad it is over there. But, I know how bad it is over here and I doubt it is as bad over there.
                    Interestingly, it is about as bad everywhere the problem isn't really degree, but volume. OBVIOUSLY, india is not as bad as many are or were led to believe, and that begs the question of what the REAL volume is.

                    The US is NOWHERE NEAR as good as many are led to believe. And even the CENSUS can't be trusted. But the poorest could never be properly counted anyway. So WE don't know what the real volume is.

                    I agree. All I'm saying is I'd rather be poor in America than in India.
                    Same here, assuming it is in areas of the US I know about, etc...

                    And yes, some of the property prices are astronomical in Mumbai. I've heard residential properties being sold for Rs.80K/sq.ft. Now a normal small two bedroom apartment has like 750 sq.ft (you have to include some area outside the apartment too). This comes out to be around a million dollars for a two-bedroom apartment. I bet a lot of Americas can't afford that.
                    I WISH I could! Not that I relish living there. I just wish I had the money so freely available that I could make the choice! FEW americans could!

                    In an area called Malabar Hill, some of the properties go for 135K/sq.ft.
                    Malabar Hill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
                    It is UNREAL!

                    Steve
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                  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                    [QUOTE=Sumit Menon;9195876]Obviously I am not gonna argue with you on that. I can't because I don't know how bad it is over there. But, I know how bad it is over here and I doubt it is as bad over there.

                    /QUOTE]

                    Ditto. However, I do think you're right about the depths of poverty there - but homeless is homeless, hungry is hungry, and can't afford medical care or clean water is lack of sanity no matter what country you're in.

                    Steve......ya some people drop out of society. That's not the same thing. One wacked broad doesn't serve to negate the real world of poverty, or to explain it.
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                    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                      [quote=HeySal;9197087]
                      Originally Posted by Sumit Menon View Post

                      Steve......ya some people drop out of society. That's not the same thing. One wacked broad doesn't serve to negate the real world of poverty, or to explain it.
                      I know! Just saying!

                      As for ME, I have been hungry and poor, but it has always been something I knew would likely be short lived. Luckily, it HAS been. I haven't even thought that I would ever be as bad off as I imagine some indians are. At least not until recently. I don't even know if the average indian has, and THAT was kind of my point.

                      About that recently point? I fail to have the reference to even be able to fully understand how bad things CAN be. And MOST people, EVEN in the most impoverished regions of india with people that are pariahs(apparently this is a SANSKRIT word that indians are familiar with), may not be able to imagine such a dystopia.

                      That type of dystopia is what strikes the fear that is creating the "patriot" movement. IMAGINE a time when you lose ALL your money, your job, etc... That is ok though, because everyone else has also and there are no stores. And you may have stored up a years worth of food, but everyone else is in the same situation, so they want to steal what YOU have.

                      It would be like that twilight zone episode where a war wiped out EVERYTHING, and irradiated the food. People are dying all over, but ONE little group survived with NO problem. One day an official looking squad comes by, and they turn out to be vermin looking for more food. They WANT some of the irradiated food. The leader says NO, it is IRRADIATED!

                      The squad INSISTS that he tell them about this hermit that denies people all the wine, etc.... They find out "he" is a computer, so they decide to destroy it, like that would fix the food! The movie ends with the computer destroyed, the group leader allive, and the OTHERS? His group? The squad? *****DEAD*****, because they ingested the irradiated food.

                      YEAH, it is "fiction", but people really DO act like that.

                      Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
              Originally Posted by Sumit Menon View Post

              There is no comparison between the US and Indian poverty line. In India if you are below the poverty line, you don't have enough money to put food on the table three times a day (and very likely you don't even own a table). Our poverty lines are according to the UN poverty line. You have your own federal poverty standards right? Our poverty is far higher than what the statistics show.
              I realize that to a degree. HECK, if an indian made what the average american made every year, they would be ECSTATIC, which is why so many of you guys come here. STILL, because you make so much less, things cost less there ALSO. I have heard that some cities in india now cost a LOT, and even a rich american might have trouble buying them. But we have the same thing in the US. A couple people moved into a little development, now known as hollywood. Some parts of IT are CHEAP(but not worth it), but a town on the outskirts, called beverly hills, can be expensive.

              Still, to judge this, a person would have to know the culture, ethics, pay, and cost in both areas. Few do. Even most of the people that come here from india are likely to be the richer and have lives closer to the west. That is primarily due to the fact that they are SUPPOSED to be able to communicate in english, have a college education, and be sponsored by an employer or close relative here.

              Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author domainarama
    Good luck to India under its new leader.

    I lived for a year about 8 years ago in B'lore (now B'luru?). The rapid economic strides were very obvious. I remember reading at that time that a major US investment bank predicted that by the middle of the 21st century India's economy would be larger than the US economy. Maybe that prediction won't hold anymore because of the slowdown in Indian growth...but, then again, Obama has crippled US growth so badly that the prediction might pan out.

    If anything slows down Indian growth it is due to 2 things IMHO
    1) India is such a complex country with so many governing bodies in so many places doing so many conflicting things it is almost impossible to do big country-wide things. I'm for democracy and would hate to live in a place which is not democratic. But Indians democracy can be a problem.
    2) The infrastructure is not first or second world. It is awful, to put it bluntly. I lived in Bangalore, one of the world capitals of computer tech. Yet we citizens in our private homes outside the shining new office headquarters suffered electric blackouts (darn, I forget the Indian word for blackout) several hours at a time more than one day a week. I don't think the average Indian knows what real ice cream tastes like. Ice cream in India is stored in freezers in stores or homes which turn off for hours at a time, causing the ice cream to defrost, then freeze again when the electricity returns, only to defrost again the next day or two.

    And equating poverty in India with poverty in the US is ridiculous. Americans, even the poorest among us, have no concept at all of how poor the poorest Indian can be. And to say there are millions of homeless and starving people in the US is nonsense on stilts. Not even the wildest, most flaming rabble-rousing politicians in the US make that claim.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by domainarama View Post

      1) India is such a complex country with so many governing bodies in so many places doing so many conflicting things it is almost impossible to do big country-wide things. I'm for democracy and would hate to live in a place which is not democratic. But Indians democracy can be a problem.
      The term democracy is so OVERUSED, that it is ridiculous. A democracy shouldn't be so many millions of little dictatorships. It should be governing by INFORMED CHOICE of the PUBLIC for the COUNTRY! And country does NOT mean government! The governments job is to be a CARETAKER of the country to make sure it runs smoothly.

      Case in point? The US government is working to pass a NEW bill to RESTRICT government flights to COACH!!!!!!!! That is LUDICROUS! Paying for first class, or on a special government subsidy for that, is CONTRARY to the health of the country. It costs more AND, for the carbon footprint conscious, ADDS to the carbon footprint! HOW? There are fewer seats per foot, and they weigh more. Also, there is more waste and preparation. The airline provides it as a service to make more money. IMAGINE! We have been paying 2-20 times as much to fly congress around. And WHY?

      2) The infrastructure is not first or second world. It is awful, to put it bluntly. I lived in Bangalore, one of the world capitals of computer tech. Yet we citizens in our private homes outside the shining new office headquarters suffered electric blackouts (darn, I forget the Indian word for blackout) several hours at a time more than one day a week. I don't think the average Indian knows what real ice cream tastes like. Ice cream in India is stored in freezers in stores or homes which turn off for hours at a time, causing the ice cream to defrost, then freeze again when the electricity returns, only to defrost again the next day or two.
      Yeah, you really can't simply refreeze ice cream. But that is one reason why I said hopefully the new government would work on infrastructure. In the US, I saw a LOT of streets torn up to do that. And most of OUR cities were BUILT with basic infrastructure. But OLD basic is now considered ARCHAIC here.

      And equating poverty in India with poverty in the US is ridiculous. Americans, even the poorest among us, have no concept at all of how poor the poorest Indian can be. And to say there are millions of homeless and starving people in the US is nonsense on stilts. Not even the wildest, most flaming rabble-rousing politicians in the US make that claim.
      There ARE some VERY poor in the US. I mean dirty, searching for shelter, hunger pangs, and malnutrition poor. I think it is mostly due to desire, mental problems, education, etc... but it is there. There COULD be millions. As for politicians? THEY have redefined poor so that anyone making less than about $35,280 is POOR(top 58% What Percent Are You? - Real Time Economics - WSJ )! That is OVER $16.96/hour! HECK, my first SKILLED job didn't pay that much! Social security says that, in 2012, the average income was $44,321.67. (WSJ ranks as top 49%).

      OK, that means that they figure that there are about 42% that are dirt poor. The dirty little secret is that even the top 92% could survive at a level that used to not be that bad.
      A person making minimum wage used to be, about a year ago, in around $17160(top 79%). If the new rule, for a $10.10/hour minimum wage, passes, with the new rules, the average minimum wage earner will get about $15230.8(top 82%).

      Still, the politicians talk about this level of poverty as if they WERE as bad as the worst in india.

      Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Sumit Menon
      Originally Posted by domainarama View Post


      The infrastructure is not first or second world. It is awful, to put it bluntly. I lived in Bangalore, one of the world capitals of computer tech. Yet we citizens in our private homes outside the shining new office headquarters suffered electric blackouts (darn, I forget the Indian word for blackout) several hours at a time more than one day a week. I don't think the average Indian knows what real ice cream tastes like. Ice cream in India is stored in freezers in stores or homes which turn off for hours at a time, causing the ice cream to defrost, then freeze again when the electricity returns, only to defrost again the next day or two.

      And equating poverty in India with poverty in the US is ridiculous. Americans, even the poorest among us, have no concept at all of how poor the poorest Indian can be. And to say there are millions of homeless and starving people in the US is nonsense on stilts. Not even the wildest, most flaming rabble-rousing politicians in the US make that claim.
      I believe you are looking for 'power cut' or 'load shedding'. Those were some horrible days. Things have changed a little over the years, at least in the towns. We used to have 8 hours of power cut each day at one time. Half the town would have a power cut at one time and the other half at another. And these timings used to alternate over the span of the week.

      I remember, I used to wake up at 7.30 in the morning when there'd be a power cut from 7.30-11.30. Then I'd have to go to school at 12.00. At school, there'd be power cut from 11.30-5.30 so there'd be no power there either (School left at 5.35). Then I'd come back home at 6.00, and we'd have power cut from 6.00-8.30. And this schedule would be followed on Monday, Wednesday and Friday in the summer. So, 3 days out of 5, I'd had to be with no power all day.

      Things have changed quite a bit however. We don't have cuts that are as bad. Power goes off occasionally but it is not regular.
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  • Profile picture of the author hardraysnight
    anything about emigration perchance?
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