spam blockers?

Banned 10 years ago

I agree.

I'd happily help more than I do, to get it removed, if I could.

I report about 40 posts per day, I think, but it's a bit of a pain when you have to wait a whole minute between every one. Would the forum Admininstrator consider shortening the waiting-period required between "reports", so that we can at least report it a bit more easily, please? We're trying to "do our share" but you could help us to do that, by making it a little easier, you know?

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Dennis Gaskill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

I agree.

I'd happily help more than I do, to get it removed, if I could.

I report about 40 posts per day, I think, but it's a bit of a pain when you have to wait a whole minute between every one. Would the forum Admininstrator consider shortening the waiting-period required between "reports", so that we can at least report it a bit more easily, please? We're trying to "do our share" but you could help us to do that, by making it a little easier, you know?

As I understand it, the spammers have to wait a minute between posts, too. So, if not for that minute wait, you'd see even more spam.

If it helps, when you see several obvious spam threads in the same forum, you don't have to report them all - just mention that there are several spam threads in the forum when you report one and the rest will get taken care of as well.

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Alexa Smith

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

As I understand it, the spammers have to wait a minute between posts, too.

Yes, I wondered about this. Thank you.

Does the wait between "reports" have to be the same as the wait between posts? Can they not be separated and have different time-interval requirements? It would make a big difference?

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

If it helps, when you see several obvious spam threads in the same forum, you don't have to report them all - just mention that there are several spam threads in the forum when you report one and the rest will get taken care of as well.

But only when there's next a moderator online. That doesn't help to get them soft-deleted right away by "multiple reports" (and that facility's been turned back on, now).

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

If they keep the place clean, I'll gladly help. If they're going to ignore it, I'm walking right past the trash.

I suspect they're not ignoring it, but trying, and struggling. It's obviously really difficult. But I can't imagine that anyone would spend what this forum cost, to buy, and then ignore a problem that drives so many away?

The simple solution of asking a few more of us well-established members who are here very frequently to help out, though, does seem always to fall on stony ground. And that is disappointing, I admit, because that would solve about 90%+ of it really efficiently and quickly.

As it is, I don't envy the moderators, of whom I think there are too few (and maybe in similar time-zones)?

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Dan Riffle

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

I suspect they're not ignoring it, but trying, and struggling. It's obviously really difficult. But I can't imagine that anyone would spend what this forum cost, to buy, and then ignore a problem that drives so many away?

I get where you're coming from, but it wasn't as much of a problem before. The new company purchased the forum and BOOM! spam is a problem. Sure, they're supposedly implementing systems, yada, yada, yada. I'll believe it when I see it and, when I do, I'll go back to reporting spam. Until then, they filled the pool. They can drown in it.

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Dan Riffle

10 years ago

I've stopped reporting spam. I had no problem self-modding when the forum administration took spam seriously. I am not, however, going to spend extra portions of my time reporting spam when it's obviously not something the administration is serious about.

If they keep the place clean, I'll gladly help. If they're going to ignore it, I'm walking right past the trash.

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MikeAmbrosio

10 years ago

Well, in some ways it helps me - with the recent onslaught of spam, I've spent less time here. Who wants to wade through spam posts to get to the real ones?

I stopped reporting spam as well. Pointless, as Dan stated.

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bizgrower

10 years ago

Make the spammers wait 5 minutes.
(Although a lot is probably automated.)

Let the reporters have very little, if any, wait time.
Maybe base it upon member's profile recognition.

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waterotter

10 years ago

Would the forum Admininstrator consider shortening the waiting-period required between "reports", so that we can at least report it a bit more easily, please?

Suzanne posted about the time delay in another forum:

It is put in because to eliminate it would overload the server. It is a function of "Email Flood Check" in vbulletin.

I would like to see a work-around.

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Paul Myers

10 years ago

Dennis,

As I understand it, the spammers have to wait a minute between posts, too. So, if not for that minute wait, you'd see even more spam.

When they're posting one spam per account, that doesn't help. They can create new accounts and post much more quickly than that with the software they use.

Alexa,

It's obviously really difficult.

Not so much, actually. The systems exist and were installed. They could be put back in place, at least until the new ones Freelancer is developing are ready.

Paul

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ThomM

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Dennis,When they're posting one spam per account, that doesn't help. They can create new accounts and post much more quickly than that with the software they use.

Paul

Paul a quick question about that.
I use roboform to login and I've noticed many times that the site will go through the motions of logging me in but I end up not logged in (I hope that made sense).
I've often wondered if it was simply a glitch or if it was a type of spam blocker that tries to recognize logins from software and blocks them.

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Paul Myers 10 years ago

Couldn't tell you, Thom. I never had anything to do with the tech end of the place. That's a question Thomas or Scott would be better equipped to answer.
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Dennis Gaskill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

Does the wait between "reports" have to be the same as the wait between posts? Can they not be separated and have different time-interval requirements? It would make a big difference?

I have no idea about that. One would think so, but as Paul said...

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Dennis,When they're posting one spam per account, that doesn't help. They can create new accounts and post much more quickly than that with the software they use.

Good point, and it seems that's exactly what they're doing now. When that one minute limit was removed a while back, it seemed like the spam increased, so "they" have a counter-response either way.

Thom mentioned problems logging in...is anyone else finding they no longer stayed logged in between browser sessions? I used to stay logged in even after I'd shut my computer down for the night. Now I have to log in every time I start up. Anyone else having that same problem?

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ForumGuru

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

Thom mentioned problems logging in...is anyone else finding they no longer stayed logged in between browser sessions? I used to stay logged in even after I'd shut my computer down for the night. Now I have to log in every time I start up. Anyone else having that same problem?

Yes, I am experiencing the exact same issue. I used to stay logged in continuously, even after restarts.

Cheers

-don

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ThomM

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

I have no idea about that. One would think so, but as Paul said...

Good point, and it seems that's exactly what they're doing now. When that one minute limit was removed a while back, it seemed like the spam increased, so "they" have a counter-response either way.

Thom mentioned problems logging in...is anyone else finding they no longer stayed logged in between browser sessions? I used to stay logged in even after I'd shut my computer down for the night. Now I have to log in every time I start up. Anyone else having that same problem?

What happens to me Dennis is robform will fill in the two login fields, it will go to the "Thank you for logging in page", but when it goes back to the home page I'm not logged in.
I then have to (using roboform again) fill in the username and password fields and manually hit the log in button.

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waterotter

10 years ago

Dennis,

Like you, I always stay logged in and never have to log back in upon startup.

Yesterday, I clicked on an image and was redirected to another WF page where I was asked to log in - I was already logged in. There must be a few glitches in the system.

Jody

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Dennis Gaskill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by waterotter

Dennis,

Like you, I always stay logged in and never have to log back in upon startup.

Yesterday, I clicked on an image and was redirected to another WF page where I was asked to log in - I was already logged in. There must be a few glitches in the system.

Jody

I had that happen, too. Only when I pasted in my password it just kept reloading the same page. Never did get to see the image. Did it accept your password?

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Paul Myers

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

I had that happen, too. Only when I pasted in my password it just kept reloading the same page. Never did get to see the image. Did it accept your password?

Ummm... Not to sound paranoid, but are you sure the image was hosted here? It could be a glitch in the forum, but it could also have been a password phish.

If you can't find the image and verify that it was hosted at the forum, I'd recommend thinking about changing your passwords.

Thom's problem doesn't sound like anything to be concerned about. I'd look askance at those other situations, though.

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Dennis Gaskill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Ummm... Not to sound paranoid, but are you sure the image was hosted here? It could be a glitch in the forum, but it could also have been a password phish.

If you can't find the image and verify that it was hosted at the forum, I'd recommend thinking about changing your passwords.

Thom's problem doesn't sound like anything to be concerned about. I'd look askance at those other situations, though.

It was added as an attachment to a post. I think it was all on the forum, but I'll change my password to be on the safe side.

Maybe it's somehow related to folks not staying logged in. I see I'm not the only one experiencing that issue.

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waterotter

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

I had that happen, too. Only when I pasted in my password it just kept reloading the same page. Never did get to see the image. Did it accept your password?

I didn't bother signing back in, so never saw the image!

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Mark Singletary

10 years ago

I just barely posted another thread discussing my recent login problems. I log in with the remember me box checked and can surf the forum as usual. Then when I return later I have to log in again. Happens in IE and Chrome.

Is that what is happening to those having login problems?

Mark

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ForumGuru

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

I just barely posted another thread discussing my recent login problems. I log in with the remember me box checked and can surf the forum as usual. Then when I return later I have to log in again. Happens in IE and Chrome.

Is that what is happening to those having login problems?

Mark

That's it.

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laurencewins

10 years ago

I am finding that I have to log in each time whereas before, it kept me logged in.

To combat spam, would the mods consider granting some of the more experienced people here the power to delete spam instead of just reporting it?

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Mark Singletary

10 years ago

Originally Posted by laurencewins

To combat spam, would the mods consider granting some of the more experienced people here the power to delete spam instead of just reporting it?

I've suggested that. My proposal is that they could only delete things that were unquestionably 100% spam - no judgment calls. For example, handbag spam could be deleted without having to be reviewed by anyone else. A judgment call about a gun thread wouldn't be dealt with by these users but would go through the regular moderation process.

If they implemented that with trusted members that promised to only deal with those kinds of posts and they had the authority to immediately delete the post, I believe we'd see a much better, much cleaner forum.

It does get frustrating knowing that their goal is to get as many users as they can possibly get for advertising and other purposes and our goal is to discuss things with as little interference and junk as possible.

The two goals are a little at odds with each other especially when they don't seem to implement stronger spam protection and they handcuff those of us that care. That turns people that care into people that don't care and aren't willing to help for free anymore. When that level of caring goes away, perhaps the desire to visit will go down too which hurts their goal.

Mark

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Alexa Smith

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

I've suggested that. My proposal is that they could only delete things that were unquestionably 100% spam - no judgment calls. For example, handbag spam could be deleted without having to be reviewed by anyone else. A judgment call about a gun thread wouldn't be dealt with by these users but would go through the regular moderation process.

Sounds good to me.

(I also suggested that instead of just "deleting", posts could be moved to a folder vicible only by moderators - which is easy to set up in vBulletin. In other words, they could effectively be "soft deleted", if that makes anyone feel less uncomfortable about it. Just a thought.)

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

I get where you're coming from, but it wasn't as much of a problem before. The new company purchased the forum and BOOM! spam is a problem. Sure, they're supposedly implementing systems, yada, yada, yada. I'll believe it when I see it and, when I do, I'll go back to reporting spam. Until then, they filled the pool. They can drown in it.

I hear you, and I think I understand, Dan. I'll be honest: they effectively did me a favor over another, unrelated matter, and I feel like trying to do them a favor in return, if I can. I'm instinctively well-disposed toward them, and hoping they can get it together.

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Dan Riffle

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

I hear you, and I think I understand, Dan. I'll be honest: they effectively did me a favor over another, unrelated matter, and I feel like trying to do them a favor in return, if I can. I'm instinctively well-disposed toward them, and hoping they can get it together.

I know specifically what you're talking about and I don't wrong you for that. My first thought when I read about the sale was how this would affect your strike.

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Paul Myers

10 years ago

Mark,

If they implemented that with trusted members that promised to only deal with those kinds of posts and they had the authority to immediately delete the post, I believe we'd see a much better, much cleaner forum.

Combined with a section where the posts/threads went after being soft-deleted, that could possibly work. I guarantee you, though, the majority of the people who've asked for exactly that are not people I'd trust to use the delete button judiciously. And damned few who would ask such a thing should be allowed near the ban button.

If you don't truly hate that thing, you have no business being a moderator.

Happily, not my call any more.

Paul

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Richard Van

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

I've stopped reporting spam. I had no problem self-modding when the forum administration took spam seriously. I am not, however, going to spend extra portions of my time reporting spam when it's obviously not something the administration is serious about.

If they keep the place clean, I'll gladly help. If they're going to ignore it, I'm walking right past the trash.

I've stopped reporting it for now too.

I made a joke thread about you actually Dan regarding the Michael Kors handbag spammer and I thought you'd be at least one person here who may want to buy one, for yourself obviously, not the missus.

Admin came along and said "I nearly decimated this thread". I replied that I did understand and please feel free to delete it if required.

Sadly it was deleted and the Michael Kors spam that was underneath it remained for some time and I reported it after my post was deleted. (I don't care about my post but get the spam post while you're at it)

To be honest when I reported things before it was more in the hope Paul saw it as I know he'd deal with it. Now he's not and posts I report tend to stay, I'm with Dan.

I'm not saying I won't in future but not while there's little point.

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Dennis Gaskill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

To be honest when I reported things before it was more in the hope Paul saw it as I know he'd deal with it. Now he's not and posts I report tend to stay, I'm with Dan.

Paul did an incredible amount of work keeping the forum in good order. More than anyone else except perhaps Thomas. You don't easily replace a guy like that.

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Richard Van

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

Paul did an incredible amount of work keeping the forum in good order. More than anyone else except perhaps Thomas. You don't easily replace a guy like that.

I agree Dennis and you can tell the difference if you report posts.

I know Thomas did a superb job too. Is that also not the case any more? Has he gone too?

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Dennis Gaskill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

I agree Dennis and you can tell the difference if you report posts.

I know Thomas did a superb job too. Is that also not the case any more? Has he gone too?

Thomas is still here. There are a couple new mods, too, but more are needed, and as Paul said, they're needed on different shifts.

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Paul Myers

10 years ago

Dennis,

If they do something stupid enough to lose Thomas, this place is almost certainly a $3.2 million dollar digital hole in the ground. They do lots of things really well, but finding someone as genuinely nice as Thomas who has the steel that man has in him is not going to be easy for a corporate entity.

Alaister is well-equipped to do the 5% of what I did here that can't be done by anyone with simple training and some common sense. Replacing Thomas without a complete (and negative) shift of the culture here just isn't going to happen.

There's a reason Allen and I had the rule: "Abuse Thomas and let us know about it and you're gone. No questions, no excuses, no appeal."

He is the backbone of this place.

Paul

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Richard Van

10 years ago

I think the trouble is they know when to do it.

The entire front page has been filling up with spam and has been for over an hour now with the first one still there.

They either know when the mods are not on or they just do this all day and the mods get it when they are on.

It's a real shame it's got like this.

EDIT. In fact, with the sheer volume of spam threads and the fact they're posting in normal threads, I reckon any moderator that does come to clear this up has at least a few hours work just deleting this. I think this is the worst I've seen it since Freelancer took over, the spam is well onto the second page now and it's 2 hours since I first posted this and reported it.

I know people have to sleep but the shift system certainly hasn't started yet and to be frank, they'd be better off turning off the OT section while they can't moderate it, because the spammers certainly know there's no one here.

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Dennis Gaskill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

If they do something stupid enough to lose Thomas, this place is almost certainly a $3.2 million dollar digital hole in the ground.

You got that right. I also think they should have done everything they could to convince you to at least moderate the WSO's. It takes advanced skills and more than a little talent to moderate that snake pit.

Originally Posted by Richard Van

They either know when the mods are not on or they just do this all day and the mods get it when they are on.

It's a real shame it's got like this.

It's steady, it just doesn't show up as much when there are mods here. It does get heavier when certain parts of the world wake up, which is when many of the mods are sleeping. As Paul said, they need more mods and on all shifts. Getting some filtering back in place would alleviate the problem a great deal. That's been broke since they moved the site to new servers.

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Paul Myers 10 years ago

Dennis,

The "for sale" section stuff is most of the 5% I was referring to above. It probably took up 40% of the time I spent moderating, and they can't hand that to someone with no experience.

Alaister has the skill set and experience to do it, based on his work at Freelancer. I get the impression that he may be a little too eager to please to do those at this point, though. Of course, that impression is based on a very small data set, and could be completely wrong.

I feel sorry for anyone walking into that minefield for the first time. The problem sellers are a very small minority, but they're tenacious and often vindictive in ways that civilized people aren't usually well-equipped to deal with.

Paul
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Richard Van

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

It's steady, it just doesn't show up as much when there are mods here. It does get heavier when certain parts of the world wake up, which is when many of the mods are sleeping. As Paul said, they need more mods and on all shifts. Getting some filtering back in place would alleviate the problem a great deal. That's been broke since they moved the site to new servers.

Yes, you're right. Yesterday was much worse than normal but I was aware part of the world is asleep, I've not seen it that bad and yes, they probably need time to find people to do the shifts, though they did advertise for it a while back now.

I just find it fascinating this multi million dollar company with resources coming out of their ears can't sort out a spam filter and mods to do shifts in the time they've had. I may be being unfair but I am comparing that to Allen's (one man) forum with volunteer mods that did an excellent job.

Edit. In the time it took to write that there are about 10-12 new spam threads and if like yesterday, this will continue for several hours now until a mod comes on. Time to log off and pop back when America wakes up.

See you all later.

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ForumGuru Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

I've stopped reporting it for now too.

I'm considering the same...it's getting to be too much.

Cheers

-don
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- Alexa Smith Banned 10 years ago
  
  A lot of today's spamski doesn't even seem to be for handbags or shoes.
  
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  Richard Van 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Alexa Smith
  
  A lot of today's spamski doesn't even seem to be for handbags or shoes.
  
  Well, we have Micky Gor blimey hand bags up there all the time so there is that option.
  
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- sbucciarel Banned 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by ForumGuru
  
  I'm considering the same...it's getting to be too much.
  
  Cheers
  
  -don
  
  I still report it. Don't have any reason not to at this point. I did feel like Allen and his crew of moderators had earned the respect of the community, which made some of the community want to give back and help out. As for the new owners, they don't have that yet, but I'm going to continue to help out anyway.
  
  If member moderators all quit, spammers win. Period. The new mods can figure out that a hundred threads about shoes are spam, but I don't think they're trained enough to read threads and see abusive patterns of behavior that members who have been around for awhile can easily spot, like serial link dropping and self promotion, and see my sig spam and bumping old threads for sig exposure and meaningless posts for post count,etc. I still see plenty of that and even if they were hip to it all, they can't read all the threads and all the posts.
  
  Yeah, it was a lot easier when the spam filters were in place and I can't figure out any good reason to remove that, but they did for whatever reason and don't seem like they plan on putting it back. It's tedious reporting it, but again, sooner or later the new mods will get to that stuff because it's so obvious, so it probably doesn't need to be reported much either way.
  
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Mark Singletary

10 years ago

Paul, the ban power never even crossed my mind as being part of the process. I was just hoping there would be an easier way to get the junk under control by making it easier to delete the unquestionable spam.

Are you not a mod at all now?

Mark

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Paul Myers 10 years ago

Mark,

the ban power never even crossed my mind as being part of the process

And, unsurprisingly, you're someone I'd trust with it. Precisely because of that.

The levels of access aren't that granular as far as I know. You can either delete individual posts or nuke people using the Spam Decimator.

Are you not a mod at all now?

Yeah, but the only things I do any more are handle the JV section (until they train someone to do that) and deal with spammers I run across while browsing the forum. I've probably nuked 4 or 5 dozen spammers in this section today, but I'm not hunting them the way I did, or handling spam reports any more.

creiben31 seems to be doing a nice job when s/he's online. They just need a few more of him/her. Like maybe 6, spread out over multiple shifts.

Paul
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bizgrower

10 years ago

So I guess this thread isn't about blocking Batman (Claude - not Ron) and Riffle?

Copyright 1997-2014 - this is a big site to get a handle on and good mods are hard to find/vet?
Heck, even mediocre help is hard to find. (I even predict better smilies sometime.)

Maybe divide volunteer mods by topic, ie, if alleged spam involves shoes or cauliflower soup,
then Lexy gets to decide.

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Dan Riffle

10 years ago

Originally Posted by bizgrower

So I guess this thread isn't about blocking Batman (Claude - not Ron) and Riffle?

I just want to note biz's proper sentence structure. When you're saying something negative, it's always "Claude and Riffle." When you're making a positive comment, it's always "Riffle and Claude."

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bizgrower

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

I just want to note biz's proper sentence structure. When you're saying something negative, it's always "Claude and Riffle." When you're making a positive comment, it's always "Riffle and Claude."

I will endeavor to remember that.

When will Riffle's Rules be published?

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"If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

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Dan Riffle 10 years ago

Originally Posted by bizgrower

When will Riffle's Rules be published?

Riffle's Rules is meant to refute the faulty logic of Claude's forthcoming work Claude's Clues for the Clueless. Thus, I have to wait for its release. Unfortunately, Claude works at a slower pace than George RR Martin, so it's going to be a while.
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Mark Singletary

10 years ago

I hope the newbie moderators don't make us all feel that living with the spam isn't so bad after all compared to their ignorant, anxious to please, trigger fingers.

Mark

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Mark Singletary

10 years ago

And speaking of newbie moderators that I understand will be paid now, I wonder if they will eliminate the "member moderator" role or if those of us that do still report will give up voluntarily since it's not "our job" anymore.

Mark

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Paul Myers 10 years ago

Mark,

"Anxious to please" has a lot to do with the standards they're told to maintain. I doubt that the new owners will leave "good for the discussions" out of that set of expectations.

The member mod role is not something that is likely to go away any time soon. If they did eliminate it, they'd be just begging to be marginalized. That would be open season for the trolls and scammers and all the rest of the negative and/or abusive types.

Paul
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- Mark Singletary 10 years ago
  
  But whatever they are told, Paul, there is no way they will be able to understand the dynamics for a long time. For example, your "them that gives gets" thinking/rule would be impossible to transfer to someone fresh on the job because they have no clue what the history is here.
  
  Mark
  
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  Paul Myers 10 years ago
  
  Mark,
  
  Half (or more) of our long-term members don't grok a lot of the dynamics. Nobody understands all of it. The place is just too big.
  
  The "rule" you mentioned would be easily understood by anyone with any experience in online communities. Applying it is a different thing, which is what I expect you meant. And you're right. But that history is pretty much moderator-irrelevant with the change of ownership.
  
  Paul
  
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  Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.
  
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waterotter

10 years ago

I'm done, for now, reporting spam threads in the forums. If I see a spambot/spammer within a thread, I will report that.

Right now, the spam is rampant in the OT, yet sig files are being disabled. Why not clear out the spam at the same time???

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spam blockers?

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