Government moves to ban drones in 400 national parks

David Beroff

10 years ago

But I thought the drones were coming from the government? {confused}

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derekwong28

10 years ago

Originally Posted by David Beroff

But I thought the drones were coming from the government? {confused}

Nowadays, the term drone is loosely used for a RC aircraft with some autopilot ability, notably "return to home" at the flick of a switch. They can also be made to hover at a particular position and height. Personal drones are in the midst of a superboom and the one below is one of the most popular and is called "DJI Phantom". They are mainly used for aerial photography. It is likely that commercial usage will be approved soon.

I don't think there is anything new about the ban in National Parks. They are already banned for most RC aircraft activities. Here is an example of what people are using them for. In that case, he is also using FPV (first person view) equipment. That is as if he is actually sitting inside the drone and piloting it.

DJI Phantom - Niagara Falls - YouTube

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ForumGuru Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by derekwong28

Personal drones are in the midst of a superboom and the one below is one of the most popular and is called "DJI Phantom".

Yup, DJI Innovations makes some cool UAG stuff and the S800 is being used by many independent videographers as well movie and TV production companies. If you watched the series Gold Rush on the Discovery Channel last year you saw that killer waterfall shot made by the S800 (It's sorta similar to the waterfall video you posted). That copter setup ran into 5 figures but you can buy some fancy ready-to-fly S800 kits for around $8,000 not including the camera. Unfortunately that Gold Rush waterfall video is not available on the free web.

An $8000+ kit...

DJI S800 EVO RTF ZENMUSE A2 IOSD II Ready To Fly with Futaba 14SG and 8FG - Aerial Media Pros

DJI S800 EVO A2 Ready to Fly Demo, by...

DJI - Threading the Devil's Needle - YouTube

Checkout these S800 Vimeo reels...

Brazil

http://vimeo.com/68378954

Globe Flight Demo Reel

http://vimeo.com/49369884

Red Bull 24 hours Cross-Country Challenge

http://vimeo.com/58941484

Some freaking awesome copters are out there these days...

Cheers

-don
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Daniel Evans

10 years ago

Still can't bring myself to calling these "drones", but quadcopter camera work is getting interesting for sure.

Here's a video of Blackpools "Golden Mile".

For those who aren't aware Blackpool is a place in England on the west cost. A little like Las Vegas, but better.

Quadcopter flies Blackpools Golden Mile-TBS...

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derekwong28

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Daniel Evans

Still can't bring myself to calling these "drones", but quadcopter camera work is getting interesting for sure.

Here's a video of Blackpools "Golden Mile".

For those who aren't aware Blackpool is a place in England on the west cost. A little like Las Vegas, but better.

Quadcopter flies Blackpools Golden Mile-TBS Discovery FPV - YouTube

Nice as it is, it is exactly the type of flying that could get the drone flying banned. He flew it over people and houses. In the past, nobody would have tried it with their rc models. Bad things can happen in the air such as a prop breaking off. The drone would then crash straight onto the ground.

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Daniel Evans

10 years ago

Aye, there's a load of beautiful and amazing footage on the Discovery channel produced by people who have taken risks too...

I wouldn't be too confident if there were a load of these flying overhead frequently though.

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Kay King

10 years ago

It's not like you'll never see an overview of wilderness or park areas - it's just that those taking the films will be professionals with permits granted for special uses.

There have been several deaths of kids, teens and adults who were flying the drone type helicopters. It's a matter of time before someone on the ground is badly injured or killed by a hobbyist flying a drone - in a park, on a playground or in a parking lot - or in their own back yard.

If that happens - the sale and use of these RC drones will be regulated out the wazoo.

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ForumGuru

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

It's not like you'll never see an overview of wilderness or park areas - it's just that those taking the films will be professionals with permits granted for special uses.

There have been several deaths of kids, teens and adults who were flying the drone type helicopters. It's a matter of time before someone on the ground is badly injured or killed by a hobbyist flying a drone - in a park, on a playground or in a parking lot - or in their own back yard.

If that happens - the sale and use of these RC drones will be regulated out the wazoo.

Hi Kay,

I strongly disagree....deaths caused by RC helicopters are very, very, very, very, rare. Tons of people die "playing" in our parks every year. In-fact almost 200 hikers and climbers have died on Mt Rainier alone but yet hiking and climbing are still allowed, and companies still make big money selling gear and escorting people to the summit,

Mt. Rainier Fatalities

And while most of the people dying in bicycle crashes are the riders themselves, you can find bicycle from garage sales to fancy bike shops all over the US.

Check these 2010 stats...800 deaths and 515,00 emergency room visits.

In 2010 in the U.S., almost 800 bicyclists were killed and there were an estimated 515,000 emergency department visits due to bicycle-related injuries.3 Data from 2005 show fatal and non-fatal crash-related injuries to bicyclists resulted in lifetime medical costs and productivity losses of $5 billion

http://www.warriorforum.com/newreply...eply&p=9298132

I think RC helicopters one of the LAST things we should worry about regulating.

Cheers

-don

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Kay King 10 years ago

Don't get me wrong - I'm not arguing for lots of regulation. I support safety of wildlife and the right of people to spend time in natural surroundings without the noise of machines.

When you have a hobby/sport like climing or hiking, etc - you take your chances. That doesn't bother me.

The problem would be if someone on the ground....not associated with nor participating in flying drones....were seriously harmed. If you disallow flying them over busy public areas, you limit the chance of that happening.
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derekwong28

10 years ago

DJI has more or less the lower to mid end of the market cornered right now. They have got a lot of support from the Chinese and Hong Kong governments. It was started by a student at the Hong Kong Science and Technology University and still has its main office at a HKUST building in China. It made its name in China first during the 2008 Sichuan earthquake where the founder did a lot of survey work there.

Looking ahead, there is going to intense competition from companies using open source firmware for the controller such as Ardupilot APM. However, the open sourced firmware not as good as the DJI firmware yet. DJI does not have a good reputation in providing support for its products. There have also been many instances where DJI Phantoms suddenly flew away, although most cases were probably operator error.

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ForumGuru

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Don't get me wrong - I'm not arguing for lots of regulation. I support safety of wildlife and the right of people to spend time in natural surroundings without the noise of machines.

When you have a hobby/sport like climing or hiking, etc - you take your chances. That doesn't bother me.

The problem would be if someone on the ground....not associated with nor participating in flying drones....were seriously harmed. If you disallow flying them over busy public areas, you limit the chance of that happening.

I still would not even consider strictly regulating the sale of most small UAVs, nor would I ban the majority of RC choppers on many of the larger playgrounds and parks. The chances of getting killed by one are just too low...

Your Chances of Dying & Other Health Risks

Canoeing is relatively dangerous (1 in 10,000 chance of dying)...in-fact in the US almost any Tom, Dick or Harry can stick his family or friends (including kids without a choice) in a canoe and drown them in a river or on a lake. Yet canoes can purchased for just a few hundred dollars, or rented for just a few dollars an hour.

I would suspect the chance of getting killed by someone else's RC helicopter has to be 1 in 100,000,000 or 1 in 200,000,000 or quite possibly even much greater than that. Strictly regulating and/or banning something that poses very little danger to the general public from OUR public spaces just does not make sense to me.

Not to mention the fact that some of our national parks are beyond HUGE! With park use on the decline we need more reasons to visit them, not less.

In-fact when I was a kid my dad would take me to a local city park on the weekends to watch the guys flying the RC planes and it was great fun. I am sure accidents have happened, but I don't ever remember anyone being injured while we were watching and their were many of those planes flying around us in a small area. To ban remote control choppers from all parks and playgrounds is just plain old ridiculous if you ask me.

If you are worried about noise, maybe we should ban motorcycles from our national parks. And don't you hate it when you hear those loud powerboats and ski boats in our parks that have lakes and rivers in them? Oh yeah, and I just despise those obnoxiously loud generators powering those damn rich folk's campsites too!

IMHO many of these large parks should have off-limits areas, and in the reasonably remote areas they should allow the flight of RC aircraft. Sure some limits and rules should be in-place, but to do blanket bans at OUR national parks is just downright stupid I think.

Cheers

-don

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ForumGuru

Banned 10 years ago

If several or all of the entities on this FAA List of Drone License Applicants list from 2012 are granted licenses to fly drones over our cities --> then the recreational nature enthusiast with a small hexacopter and a gopro should be able to fly somewhere in many of OUR public parks.

1 Arlington Police Department(Texas)
2 Barona Band of Mission Indians Risk Management Office (California)
3 California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection
4 California State University,Fresno
5 Canyon County Sheriff's Office (Idaho)
6 City of Herington (Kansas)
7 City of Houston,TX Police Department
8 City of North Little Rock,AR ‐ Police Department
9 Clackamas County Sheriff's Office (Oregon)
10 Cornell University
11 Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency
12 Department of Energy ‐ Oak Ridge National Laboratory
13 Department of Homeland Security ‐ Science and Technology
14 Department of Homeland Security ‐ Customs and Border Protection
15 Department of the Interior ‐ National Business Center/Aviation Management Directorate
16 Eastern Gateway Community College
17 Federal Bureau of Investigation
18 Gadsden Police Department (Alabama)
19 Georgia Tech Police Department, Office of Emergency Preparedness
20 Georgia Tech Research Institute
21 Grand Forks County Sheriff's Department (NorthDakota)
22 Hays County Emergency Service Office (Texas)
23 Indiana State University
24 Kansas State University
25 King County Sheriff's Office (Washington)
26 Lorain County Community College
27 Medina County Sheriff Office (Ohio)
28 Mesa County Sheriff's Office (Colorado)
29 Miami‐Dade Police Department (Florida)
30 Middle Georgia College
31 Middle Tennessee State University
32 Mississippi Department of Marine Resources
33 Mississippi State University
34 Montgomery County Sheriff's Office(Texas)
35 National Aeronautics & Space Administration
36 National Institute of Standards and Technology
37 National Oceanic & Atmospheric Administration
38 New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology
39 New Mexico State University ‐ Physical Science Laboratory
40 Nicholls State University
41 Northwestern Michigan College
42 Ogden Police Department (Utah)
43 Ohio Department of Transportation
44 Ohio University
45 Orange County Sheriff’s Office (Florida)
46 Oregon State University
47 Otter Tail County (Minnesota)
48 Pennsylvania State University
49 Polk County Sheriff's Office(Florida)
50 Seattle Police Department (Washington)
51 Sinclair Community College
52 Texas A&M University (TAMU) ‐ CorpusChristi
53 Texas A&M University (TAMU) ‐ Texas Engineering Experiment Station
54 Texas Department of Public Safety
55 Texas State University
56 U.S.Air Force 57 U.S.Army
58 U.S.Department of Agriculture – Agriculture Research Service
59 U.S.Department of Agriculture ‐ Forest Service
60 U.S.Department of Energy ‐ Idaho National Laboratory
61 U.S.Department of Energy ‐ National Energy Technology Laboratory
62 U.S.Department of Justice ‐ Queen Anne's County Office of the Sheriff
63 U.S.Department of State
64 U.S.Marine Corps
65 U.S.Navy
66 University of Alaska,Fairbanks
67 University of Arizona
68 University of California,Davis
69 University of California, Merced
70 University of Colorado,Boulder
71 University of Connecticut
72 University of Florida
73 University of Michigan
74 University of North Dakota
75 University of Oklahoma
76 University of Wisconsin
77 Utah State University
78 Virginia Commonwealth University
79 Virginia Poly technic Institute & State University
80 Washington State Department of Transportation
81 West Virginia University

Check out what this sheriff's office in Texas wants to do with a Shadowhawk. Give me a break!

While universities are likely to fly drones for academic and research purposes, some police departments have said they want to use drones for law enforcement, including for surveillance and crowd control. A sheriff's office in Texas even went so far as to say it might be a good idea to equip its $300,000 Shadowhawk drone with Tasers, tear gas and rubber bullets, The Daily reported in March.

FAA Reveals List of Colleges and Police Departments That Can Fly Drones | TIME.com

Cheers

-don

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derekwong28

10 years ago

There were 3 deaths last year from rc helicopters. One involved a toddler at an airshow, the other two involved modelers at a model club and a remote mountain area. With the exception of airshow, none of these incidents took place in areas where there was likely to be a lot of other people around. It was possible that the accident was preventable if there had been safety nets around.

These were large rc helicopters. What is troubling about the recent spate of drone flying is that there are often flying in areas where there are a lot of people and also built up areas. Even more irresponsibly, the drones are flown up to 3000 ft near airports and there had been near misses. It is completely irresponsible to fly very high in any case because if a malfunction occurs, the drone can crash over a much wider area unpredictably. It could hit someone on the ground or a car or something.

Therefore, there is a big difference between rc aircraft and drone flying. With rc aircraft, the aircraft is never allowed to get out of the line of sight. Whereas many would fly their drones out of the line of sight. (This is actually illegal by the way).

So you are right that the fatality rate concerning rc aircraft is very low right now. But the massive increase in numbers of drones and the way they are flown is very disturbing. This is often discussed in rc forums and is the main fear of members there. In the old days when there were just simply rc aircraft, every modeler knew that they could be dangerous and respected them. For a start, they were much harder to fly and there was a much longer learning curve. Now, the drones are much easier to fly and much more reliable. Not much training is required and the operators do not respect them.

â–¶ Drone Crashes in Manhattan VIDEO Drone...

[FULL] Drone Crashes into Crowd at Great Bull Run...

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ForumGuru

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by derekwong28

There were 3 deaths last year from rc helicopters. One involved a toddler at an airshow,

So the toddler is the only non-operator killed. Is the toddler the 2012 incident I noted on this thread that took place at the 10PM copter show in Seremban? Or is this a different incident?

http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...ml#post9279255

These were large rc helicopters. What is troubling about the recent spate of drone flying is that there are often flying in areas where there are a lot of people and also built up areas. Even more irresponsibly, the drones are flown up to 3000 ft near airports and there had been near misses.

Therefore, there is a big difference between rc aircraft and drone flying.

BIG agreement here!

With rc aircraft, the aircraft is never allowed to get out of the line of sight. Whereas many would fly their drones out of the line of sight. (This is actually illegal by the way).

Yes, and model rc aircraft is supposed to stay below 400ft, supposed to stay away from populated areas, and supposed to stay away from airports without prior consent as per FAA.

So you are right that the fatality rate concerning rc aircraft is very low right now. But the massive increase in numbers of drones and the way they are flown is very disturbing.

I somewhat agree...but Idiots kill people everyday, especially with guns and automobiles, and the chances of a non-operator being being killed by a rc chopper is extremely remote.

This is often discussed in rc forums and is the main fear of members there.

Yeah, on the other drone thread I linked to a forum where they were trying to calculate the risks...the crude calculations that were being done put the possibility of non-operators being killed at 1 in the many, many, many millions. RC copters should be allowed to fly in remote areas of large parks where they have plenty of space and not many (if any) people in the direct vicinity --> which puts the odds of a non-operator being serious injured or killed at sub-microscopic levels.

In the old days when there were just simply rc aircraft, every modeler knew that they could be dangerous and respected them. For a start, they were much harder to fly and there was a much longer learning curve. Now, the drones are much easier to fly and much more reliable. Not much training is required and the operators do not respect them.

Maybe so, but we certainly are not seeing a rash of non-operators being killed by rc copters...in-fact it is hard to find just a few!

Personally, I am infinetly more worried about being killed by a drunk driver as I have had 3 family members killed by drunk drivers. I am also am infinitely more worried about being hit by a car while riding my bike.

1) The first family member I had killed by a drunk driver was my aunt who was killed by a drunk truck driver when she stopped her car at a flashing red light.

2) The second was my sister's husband, he was killed by a truck driver when he was stopped his motorcycle at a red light on a highway.

3) The third was my step-father who was killed in a crash after riding in a vehicle with a drunk driver. Yeah, that was partly his fault for getting in the car with an impaired driver.

Maybe we should take some of the MORON drivers off the street forever. Or maybe we should ban bars, restaurants, clubs, and lounges etc. that serve alcohol since plenty of people drive home, or to club to club to club that are over the legal limit. Heck, maybe we should ban alcohol again.

Cheers

-don