College Degrees - Are They Worth It?

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Hi Guys

I wanted to start a thread here about college/university degrees and their worth at this current point in time. I would be very interested to hear stories from people here who graduated with degrees and then your successes/hardships in getting jobs etc.

I personally graduated a few months back with a commerce degree in Informatics and have yet to be granted an interview after applying to many companies. To me it seems degrees are not worth what they used to be and in today's world its probably more about who you know and not what you know.

So, was it worth the hard work and long wait?
  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
    Depends on what you want to do and what degree you get.

    If you want to get any kind of decent white collar job then without a degree you have little to no chance, not that having one is any guarantee. It is not.

    If you want to work with your hands and get into something like plumbing or electrical, then a college degree is not required. Just get the technical training that you need.

    If you want to make money on the Internet then a college degree is absolutely not required. Street smarts is more important than book smarts. Researching your target market and understanding what makes them tick is more important than a piece of paper.

    My daughter is over a year out of grad school and still looking for a "real" job. It is a tough world out there. A college degree is no guarantee but for certain jobs, it's a requirement and no way around it, such as if you want to be a doctor, lawyer, etc.

    So, are they worth it? Again, depends on what you want to do. In my case, mine was a complete waste of time and money.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Degrees are fantastic tools to help you get a great job.

      To create wealth (or anything approaching wealth?) Not important.

      I've never been asked, by anyone giving me money, what my education is, or what degrees I have.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        I've never been asked, by anyone giving me money, what my education is, or what degrees I have.
        Neither have I.

        But if I didn't have the education I actually have, effectively there wouldn't be nearly so many of them, and the amounts of money would be far smaller.

        With rare and obvious exceptions, I don't think education is really about using the specific "things you learn during it", anyway.

        It's much more about what's left with you after all that detail has been forgotten.

        My opinion on this subject is often in a minority in the Warrior Forum, where the small, self-selected group who discuss "education" inevitably includes a preponderance of people who take an entirely different view of "formal, academic education" from mine; they typically think of higher education broadly in terms of its income potential, whereas I think of it in terms of developing the judgement, learning-skills and analytical skills necessary to apply to new and different and unrelated situations. But even so, for "running a business", those are simply invaluable skills.

        I'm probably significantly undereducated, for internet marketing and especially for its technical aspects, compared with many people here than whom I'm actually far more successful. But I don't think that matters at all: the reality is that for me, being highly educated in the formal, academic sense has helped me enormously and is far more important, in my opinion. Once you're trained to develop the judgement, learning-skills and analytical skills necessary to apply to new and different and unrelated situations, most of the other, practical stuff you really need is relatively easily picked up.

        I think people who complete their college education are (for many reasons, some obvious and some very far from obvious) overwhelmingly more likely to be successful (including as self-employed internet marketers).

        The general principle of their overall success (i.e. not specifically the "internet marketing" part) has been reliably proven, over and over again, for over 100 years now, in the countries in which statistical records are kept - and that's a lot of countries. It's simply incontrovertible, and factual.

        And that's true however often rare, exceptional, anecdotal evidence (like that of Mr. Gates and Mr. Zuckerberg) is mentioned in such conversations.

        I think it's very easy significantly to underestimate the extent to which education (of various kinds) is beneficial to "being a successful internet marketer". I also think, overall, that in spite of the undeniable reality that some entirely uneducated people have become very successful through internet marketing, one typically hears far more about the rare exceptions than about the norms: everyone's quick to tell you that Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg aren't college graduates, but they're often a little less enthusiastic about hearing that they were both people with impeccable academic credentials who had no trouble getting into Harvard in the first place, and that they both attribute their own success, in large part, to that fact and partly to being lucky enough to have been in the right place at the right time.

        The Myth of the Successful College Dropout: Why It Could Make Millions of Young Americans Poorer - Robert J. Zimmer - The Atlantic

        .
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          Neither have I.

          But if I didn't have the education I actually have, effectively there wouldn't be nearly so many of them, and the amounts of money would be far smaller.

          With rare and obvious exceptions, I don't think education is really about using the specific "things you learn during it", anyway.

          It's much more about what's left with you after all that detail has been forgotten.

          My opinion on this subject is often in a minority in the Warrior Forum, where the small, self-selected group who discuss "education" inevitably includes a preponderance of people who take an entirely different view of "formal, academic education" from mine; they typically think of higher education broadly in terms of its income potential, whereas I think of it in terms of developing the judgement, learning-skills and analytical skills necessary to apply to new and different and unrelated situations. But even so, for "running a business", those are simply invaluable skills.

          I'm probably significantly undereducated, for internet marketing and especially for its technical aspects, compared with many people here than whom I'm actually far more successful. But I don't think that matters at all: the reality is that for me, being highly educated in the formal, academic sense has helped me enormously and is far more important, in my opinion. Once you're trained to develop the judgement, learning-skills and analytical skills necessary to apply to new and different and unrelated situations, most of the other, practical stuff you really need is relatively easily picked up.

          I think people who complete their college education are (for many reasons, some obvious and some very far from obvious) overwhelmingly more likely to be successful (including as self-employed internet marketers).

          The general principle of their overall success (i.e. not specifically the "internet marketing" part) has been reliably proven, over and over again, for over 100 years now, in the countries in which statistical records are kept - and that's a lot of countries). It's simply incontrovertible, and factual.

          And that's true however often rare, exceptional, anecdotal evidence (like that of Mr. Gates and Mr. Zuckerberg) is mentioned in such conversations.

          I think it's very easy significantly to underestimate the extent to which education (of various kinds) is beneficial to "being a successful internet marketer". I also think, overall, that in spite of the undeniable reality that some entirely uneducated people have become very successful through internet marketing, one typically hears far more about the rare exceptions than about the norms: everyone's quick to tell you that Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg aren't college graduates, but they're often a little less enthusiastic about hearing that they were both people with impeccable academic credentials who had no trouble getting into Harvard in the first place, and they both attribute their own success, in large part, to that fact and partly to being lucky enough to have been in the right place at the right time.

          The Myth of the Successful College Dropout: Why It Could Make Millions of Young Americans Poorer - Robert J. Zimmer - The Atlantic

          .
          As usual, I agree with everything you say.
          There are huge advantage to the college experience;
          Advanced social skills
          Being able to think in a more analytical way (depending on the subjects studied)
          Communications skills are strengthened, as is the ability to clearly sell ideas.

          I love advanced education. Not just about business. But serious study on a variety of subjects. The habit of study is also useful (Maybe one of my best strengths)

          Personally, I never finished high school. But my education never stopped.

          When you are writing, your education shows through.

          And having a degree is an indication that you are willing to put forth an effort, and not quit.

          So, I think a higher education (in whatever form that takes) is a phenomenal value.

          But I've never been asked about my education when selling. Everyone assumes I went to college somewhere.

          There isn't a single point in your post where I thought "Yeah, but...."
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          • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            As usual, I agree with everything you say.
            Damn, it's so hard to pick a fight with some people. (Don't know how Riffle apparently manages it so effortlessly: must be the lawyer in him, I guess ).

            I'll tell you what's even worse: I agree with what you say, too.

            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            my education never stopped.
            Of course ... it shows, too.

            .
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            • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              As usual, I agree with everything you say.
              Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

              I agree with what you say, too.
              Do you people realize what all this pillow talk is doing to Riffle?
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              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

                Do you people realize what all this pillow talk is doing to Riffle?
                Forget Riffle! What do you think all this pillow talk is doing to ME?!
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                • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  Forget Riffle! What do you think all this pillow talk is doing to ME?!
                  Dear Forum Members,

                  This is Dennis' wife. I'm sorry to tell you that when he read Claude's question he ran out of the room screaming and hasn't been seen for hours. Please don't ask him questions like this anymore.
                  Thank you,

                  Mrs. Dennis
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Degrees are fantastic tools to help you get a great job.

        To create wealth (or anything approaching wealth?) Not important.

        I've never been asked, by anyone giving me money, what my education is, or what degrees I have.
        Couldn't agree more.

        For the past 20 plus years, in my line of work, I have dealt with people in small start-ups to the largest pharma companies in the world, from technicians to scientists to CEO's. All of them came to me for answers. All of them value my input. None of them asked about my education (well, except one scientist...when I got through talking to him he valued my input even more).

        And I probably earn more than all but the higher ups in the big pharmas. I only point that out because if I were an employee in a company right now, my lack of a degree would indeed hold me back. I would be earning about half what I do as a self employed consultant.

        Edit - I should point out that I do not have a degree, never went to college and finished high school with a GED.
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    • Profile picture of the author Angle Warrior
      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

      If you want to work with your hands and get into something like plumbing or electrical, then a college degree is not required. Just get the technical training that you need.
      In Canada to become lic. you are required to do your technical training at collage and to advance yourself in the trade additional college degrees or certifications are required
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    A degree can certainly help open doors for you, but having one doesn't guarantee anything. I know college grads who have memorized a lot of stuff but still haven't learned how to think for themselves very well. Whether a degree is "worth it or not" depends a great deal on the person.
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      A degree can certainly help open doors for you, but having one doesn't guarantee anything. I know college grads who have memorized a lot of stuff but still haven't learned how to think for themselves very well. Whether a degree is "worth it or not" depends a great deal on the person.
      I think you nailed it Dennis.
      A degree will help open doors but it's the knowledge you obtained and knowing how to apply it that is important.
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  • Profile picture of the author truefocusgroup
    I think a college degree will open doors for you if you want a JOB and a mountain of debt! I think it was Jim Rohn that once said "Formal education will make you a living, Self education will make you a fortune." I guess it all depends on what you want in life. I prefer to work for myself.
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  • Profile picture of the author truefocusgroup
    I just joined. I created a signature, linked it and saved it but when I posted my first ever post on this forum, I did not see it anywhere. Little help here please.
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
      Originally Posted by truefocusgroup View Post

      I just joined. I created a signature, linked it and saved it but when I posted my first ever post on this forum, I did not see it anywhere. Little help here please.
      Scroll to the top of the page and click the Quick Links menu, then Edit Options. Scroll down until you see the section for Thread Display (or something like that) and make sure the "Show Signatures" box is checked. That should do it.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by truefocusgroup View Post

        I just joined. I created a signature, linked it and saved it but when I posted my first ever post on this forum, I did not see it anywhere. Little help here please.
        Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

        Scroll to the top of the page and click the Quick Links menu, then Edit Options. Scroll down until you see the section for Thread Display (or something like that) and make sure the "Show Signatures" box is checked. That should do it.
        And after that, try not to hijack other people's threads -- and welcome to the forum.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason76
    It depends on the major. However, even a job with few job prospects improves one's resume, and gives one a broader outlook on life.

    I would say that a lot of money can be made without one, if your in the right field.
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    • Profile picture of the author Niche Blogger
      My degree wasn't worth it in terms of income as I no longer work in the job I trained to do.

      However I do feel that it wasn't a total waste of time (although my parents who funded it might disagree). It was an important part of the growing up process and I wouldn't be who I am today without having done it.

      As people have already mentioned, things like social skills, communication, and analytical skills were definitely enhanced. Even if my children never used a degree for a particular job, I would still encourage them to go to university.
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      • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
        I don't like people with degrees.

        They tend to say things like "I've got a degree"...
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Mine was. I didn't go to school just for a career. I actually loved the subjects I studied, so no matter what is going on economically, I know a lot of stuff I really wanted to know.
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    I have a college degree, but most of the knowledge I put to use today in my business was completely self taught.

    Whether or not a degree is worth it is debatable, and very much dependent on the use you get out of it.

    But with the trajectory of the cost of a 4 year degree, very soon it will not be worth it for anyone except those who can afford to throw money away. Right now the average 4 year degree at a private college is around $120,000. With that amount of a loan, you could pay $300 per month for a lifetime and still not have it paid off. So the question would be, did your college education afford you a job that pays you over $300 more per month? - In some cases the answer to that would be yes, but in many cases the answer is no.

    There have been many times when I've learned more from a few hours of youtube than I did in an entire college course.
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by garyv View Post


      There have been many times when I've learned more from a few hours of youtube than I did in an entire college course.
      Wow. What type of courses were you taking - and what school? Mine were power packed for the most part and I thoroughly enjoyed all but a few of them. Economics was a pure pain in the butt, but I felt the need to understand what is going on. Some lit classes were more blow than I would have liked. I'd say 90% of my education was pretty killer stuff though. I wish everyone would take the classes that charge them up no matter what monetary value they see them being later.
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      • Profile picture of the author garyv
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        Wow. What type of courses were you taking - and what school?
        I've taken classes from several different Colleges to complete a computer science degree. I've also completed the Navy's Nuclear Electronics Technician Schools. However, there have been several times where I've learned more from youtube or an online course than from listening to my college professors.

        We are really limiting our resources and our finances if we continue to equate a "college" education with being the only way to a quality education.

        It has been my experience (for the most part - not always) that those who can... do - and those who think they can... teach. Especially when it comes to Computer science and engineering. Those who do it well make much more money doing it than teaching it. And now days on youtube, you can always find someone that is good at what you're trying to accomplish or learn.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by garyv View Post

          It has been my experience (for the most part - not always) that those who can... do - and those who think they can... teach. .
          I'm taking this out of context, to make a point.

          "Those who can... do - and those who think they can... teach."

          This is another of those myths that get passed around, because it sounds good.

          In the most literal sense, it can be true. People who are teachers in schools.(what Gary was talking about)....aren't usually great experts in their fields (maybe college professors). They are doing a job, which is teaching. So it this case, the saying is true...usually. These people are generally teachers first, and their subject is secondary.

          But most great experts, with decades of experience, and tons of proven successes....feel an obligation to pass down what they know. And sometimes, they just get bored with their vocation, no matter how great they are...and get a thrill from helping the new guys.


          Stephen King teaches writing.
          The best martial arts masters nearly always teach.
          The best in many fields write books to pass on what they know.
          Great actors teach acting classes.

          I think it's true to say;

          "Those that can do, do.....and those that can do exceptionally well, sometimes also teach."

          Or

          "Those that can do...do. And those that can't ...complain about those that can".

          Gary; Again, I know I took this out of context. But your post reminded me of the point.

          I can think of no more noble profession that teaching.
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          • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            I'm taking this out of context, to make a point.

            "Those who can... do - and those who think they can... teach."

            This is another of those myths that get passed around, because it sounds good.

            In the most literal sense, it can be true. People who are teachers in schools.(what Gary was talking about)....aren't usually great experts in their fields (maybe college professors). They are doing a job, which is teaching. So it this case, the saying is true...usually. These people are generally teachers first, and their subject is secondary.

            But most great experts, with decades of experience, and tons of proven successes....feel an obligation to pass down what they know. And sometimes, they just get bored with their vocation, no matter how great they are...and get a thrill from helping the new guys.


            Stephen King teaches writing.
            The best martial arts masters nearly always teach.
            The best in many fields write books to pass on what they know.
            Great actors teach acting classes.

            I think it's true to say;

            "Those that can do, do.....and those that can do exceptionally well, sometimes also teach."

            Or

            "Those that can do...do. And those that can't ...complain about those that can".

            Gary; Again, I know I took this out of context. But your post reminded me of the point.

            I can think of no more noble profession that teaching.
            The way I always heard it:

            Those who can, do.
            Those who can't, teach.
            Those who can't teach, teach gym.



            My gym teacher cousin loves when I say that...lol.
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          • Profile picture of the author garyv
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


            But most great experts, with decades of experience, and tons of proven successes....feel an obligation to pass down what they know. And sometimes, they just get bored with their vocation, no matter how great they are...and get a thrill from helping the new guys.
            I'm not saying that this doesn't happen. It does. I've had some great teachers. But a majority of college professors/teachers in my experience have been taught to pass on theories, without the experience of ever implementing said theories in a practical or real-world setting.

            But if you can find these great experts as you've pointed out, it would be in your very best interest to learn from these people. My point though, is that most of the time now days you can more easily find these people teaching outside of a college setting - like on youtube, Udemy, the library, a book store, Home Depot, etc. Thus making the value of a college degree more questionable. Especially with the spiking of the price over the last few decades.
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  • Profile picture of the author Zanesta
    Think of a college degree as your safety net, what if everything fails and you need to get back up on your feet again? A degree may land you that 9-5 job that will, for the time being, at least get you SOMETHING.
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  • Profile picture of the author Morna Donaghue
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    Originally Posted by stv105 View Post

    Hi Guys

    I wanted to start a thread here about college/university degrees and their worth at this current point in time. I would be very interested to hear stories from people here who graduated with degrees and then your successes/hardships in getting jobs etc.

    I personally graduated a few months back with a commerce degree in Informatics and have yet to be granted an interview after applying to many companies. To me it seems degrees are not worth what they used to be and in today's world its probably more about who you know and not what you know.

    So, was it worth the hard work and long wait?
    Being a degree holder is a plus when applying for a job. It's true that some use their connections but not all the time. You still have an edge when you're a college graduate.
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  • Profile picture of the author HN
    Banned
    I was thinking that if you have a degree people are more likely to listen to you. Most people only listen to authority or majority. So if some science guy on youtube or a doctor says milk is the best source of calcium. Or a professor tells students that Egyptians built the pyramids. People won't question it.

    But then again. It seems that degree only matters if you are a repeater and repeat the silly old lies that you have been taught by other professors. Try to go against the flow and suddenly the degree won't matter any more. In fact you might even lose your career which happened to Virginia Steen McIntyre.

    John A McDougall, T. Colin Campbell, Caldwell Esselstyn, Michael Greger, Robert Lustig. They all have degrees. Are people listening to them? No.
    Or maybe they do, but then again, those who do will probably listen to BananaGirl as well. See, degrees are worthless

    I can only think of one good reason to get a degree. So you get access to lab, advanced and expensive technology and any publications for free to conduct your own experiments. In case you want to prove something to yourself. Trying to prove something to someone else... waste of time.
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    It depends. I have a half brother who's in debt for $65K he spent getting a liberal arts degree. That and a clean shirt will get you the afternoon shift manager's gig at Micky D's.

    I see "educated" people these days that don't know spit about history or grammar or a lot of things you'd think might have been covered in four years of college. Some of the most successful people in history have little formal education. Edison didn't finish 3rd grade. Tony Robbins, king of the self development dog pile, high school.

    I think college can be a place where some folks can figure out certain organizational stuff that they can later use. Though it seems to me that this might be falling by the wayside with all the pass/fail courses emerging.

    There definitely is a place for real education though. I'd be in favor of college for certain professions like medicine and engineering and scientific endeavors.
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