New World System!

10 years ago

I am only 3 minutes into this, and it is ALREADY full of half truths and lies!

In the 1929 depression, the resources were NOT still there! The actual fact was that "they were not fully used up yet". They also listed lots of things that were there and are needed, but left out THE KEY!!!!!!!! The ONE piece that MUST exist for it to work! It is a VERY rare commodity! The lack of it is the reason for most wars, the bad news, politics, etc..... YEP, if it became common, the courts would vanish, governments would vanish, and POLITICS would be GONE!!!!!!

What is it? ALTRUISM!!!!!!!!! Because it is so rare, we created the barter system. THAT was impractical, so it needed a common form of exchange, and THAT is MONEY! So theonly reason why money exists is because we don't have what we needed to avoid that depression, etc....

I'll watch the rest of themovie, but man I HATE it when they hype up things like this. It is like those people at a college that made that arm and claimed it was so cheap. Think about it. The school got paid a LOT. The teacher was paid a LOT! The students figure it is something to get them closer to a degree, etc... And they put in all this free time because they really didn't need MORE money. Never mind that a business needs a profit to pay all the people and grow!

Steve

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seasoned

10 years ago

SERIOUSLY! The guy is DELUSIONAL! Does he REALLY think NOBODY has spoken about this before? STAR TREK DID! Yet on star trek, they NEVER talk about how they deal with new cultures and even on EARTH, they seem to have 3 ways it is done, probably because they realized that the highly utopian one is impossible.

Can we do it today?(I mean with today's technology) OF COURSE! We could have done it 50 years ago. HECK, with the old technologies(since the population was smaller and less demanding),we could have done it MILLENIA ago! HECK! At one point, it obviously WAS done that way! TRIBES in the amazon do!

But NOW? Atone point, in the video, he said we would have to ramp up production to a very high level. He does NOT mention that that would cost a FORTUNE! He talks about borrowing watches and cameras!?!?!? WOW! SO, he came up with an idea claiming it is a solution. It ISN'T! He just gave his vision of what MANY view! The idea of green power generation, recycling trash, mag lev trains, movable living pods, massive apartment towers, autodrivecars, underwater tunnels, aquaponic(or did they speak of the lesser cousin hydroponic)gardens, libraries, and a cashless society has been DONE TO DEATH! They have been writing about 100% of this for DECADES! They have written of the basic idea for at least a couple hundred years.

HECK, There WILL be pollution, and you likely WILL want fires,even if it is just to reduce and recycle waste. And there WILL be CO2, though plants, and even people, NEED CO2!

But they ALL leave out the key points!

Steve

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tagiscom

10 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

SERIOUSLY! The guy is DELUSIONAL! Does he REALLY think NOBODY has spoken about this before? STAR TREK DID! Yet on star trek, they NEVER talk about how they deal with new cultures and even on EARTH, they seem to have 3 ways it is done, probably because they realized that the highly utopian one is impossible.

Can we do it today?(I mean with today's technology) OF COURSE! We could have done it 50 years ago. HECK, with the old technologies(since the population was smaller and less demanding),we could have done it MILLENIA ago! HECK! At one point, it obviously WAS done that way! TRIBES in the amazon do!

But NOW? Atone point, in the video, he said we would have to ramp up production to a very high level. He does NOT mention that that would cost a FORTUNE! He talks about borrowing watches and cameras!?!?!? WOW! SO, he came up with an idea claiming it is a solution. It ISN'T! He just gave his vision of what MANY view! The idea of green power generation, recycling trash, mag lev trains, movable living pods, massive apartment towers, autodrivecars, underwater tunnels, aquaponic(or did they speak of the lesser cousin hydroponic)gardens, libraries, and a cashless society has been DONE TO DEATH! They have been writing about 100% of this for DECADES! They have written of the basic idea for at least a couple hundred years.

HECK, There WILL be pollution, and you likely WILL want fires,even if it is just to reduce and recycle waste. And there WILL be CO2, though plants, and even people, NEED CO2!

But they ALL leave out the key points!

Steve

You both raised good points, and true that some pollution would occur in order to create products, regardless of how long they last.

I am assuming that zero point energy would be developed on a massive scale to develop all this.

And l know that energy is required to bake magnetic material, etc, but eventually free energy would create more.

This isn't a pipe dream, the Australian gov, has a system that puts out far more energy than it takes in, but it is only used for military or remote niches.

We won't give up oil until we run out of the stuff, or some clever millionaire, pushed these systems globally!

And makes it viral!

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Claude Whitacre 10 years ago

I take everything in this thread...very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very seriously.
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seasoned

10 years ago

Originally Posted by tagiscom

You both raised good points, and true that some pollution would occur in order to create products, regardless of how long they last.

I am assuming that zero point energy would be developed on a massive scale to develop all this.

And l know that energy is required to bake magnetic material, etc, but eventually free energy would create more.

This isn't a pipe dream, the Australian gov, has a system that puts out far more energy than it takes in, but it is only used for military or remote niches.

We won't give up oil until we run out of the stuff, or some clever millionaire, pushed these systems globally!

And makes it viral!

Well, considering that nobody on the planet is rich enough to do this, why would a millionare have to do it? Is it because, being so poor, he or she better understands economics? We might as well have a homeless guy do it.

I'm still waiting to borrow that yacht!

BTW some people REALLY WANT to be victims? I mean he says the system will support itself with all that want to do something, and he will support it whether a msuician, actor, or whatever. So how does he support the thieves and bullies?

Steve

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Richard Van

10 years ago

Originally Posted by tagiscom

You both raised good points

Not meaning to be picky or anything but they were actually 2 posts from Steve. So only one person.

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tagiscom

10 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Well, considering that nobody on the planet is rich enough to do this, why would a millionare have to do it? Is it because, being so poor, he or she better understands economics? We might as well have a homeless guy do it.

I'm still waiting to borrow that yacht!

BTW some people REALLY WANT to be victims? I mean he says the system will support itself with all that want to do something, and he will support it whether a msuician, actor, or whatever. So how does he support the thieves and bullies?

Steve

He said that thieves wouldn't exist because it is all free. As for bullies or sociopaths wanting to rule all of it, not sure.

Interesting question, if one person ruled the entire planet, and was controlled by a select committee of elected individuals in each country, what would stop less developed countries kill off the Earth ruler, and take over?

After all Hitler wanted that, and then build huge monuments, around the world, and no doubt treat certain individuals like dirt.

Society needs to grow up in their limited thought processes. Like using Nuclear weapons, as a deterrent. What is the point of winning, when the planet is a right off.

All the other sociopaths running a muck and having their hand out doesn't help.

Well, considering that nobody on the planet is rich enough to do this, why would a millionare have to do it? Is it because, being so poor, he or she better understands economics? We might as well have a homeless guy do it.

No, l mean a millionaire could or should give humanity a taste of this alternative.

So finding a zero point way to create electricity, then emailing the plans for free to a few billion people.

The a**** that suppress the creation of these systems, couldn't stop it, although they might try to find out who did it, and use the trumpeted up sex charges like Julie went through, to shut him up.

Nothing scares a socoipath with oil stocks, more than someone with the cash, giving a large chunk of humanity something that could make them better off. Especially when this goes viral like electricity did with Tessler. Once electricity was created from directing Niagara falls water, there was no stopping it.

So, since the 70 or earlier, suppression, bullying and even killing have been the norm to keep a lid on it, or dodgy science to keep people off the scent.

Control and profits, are gods in this world!

But one wealthy individual with some guts could start to turn things around!

Originally Posted by Richard Van

Not meaning to be picky or anything but they were actually 2 posts from Steve. So only one person.

At 3am everyone is Steve!

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Hogre 10 years ago

Originally Posted by tagiscom

.
.
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Especially when this goes viral like electricity did with Tessler.

Duuude, stop butchering good Tesla's name...or I'll be forced to sauté one of your fluffy bunnies.
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seasoned

10 years ago

Originally Posted by tagiscom

He said that thieves wouldn't exist because it is all free. As for bullies or sociopaths wanting to rule all of it, not sure.

Interesting question, if one person ruled the entire planet, and was controlled by a select committee of elected individuals in each country, what would stop less developed countries kill off the Earth ruler, and take over?

After all Hitler wanted that, and then build huge monuments, around the world, and no doubt treat certain individuals like dirt.

Society needs to grow up in their limited thought processes. Like using Nuclear weapons, as a deterrent. What is the point of winning, when the planet is a right off.

All the other sociopaths running a muck and having their hand out doesn't help.

EXACTLY!

No, l mean a millionaire could or should give humanity a taste of this alternative.

*****SHOULD******!!!!!???? So you mean a millionare should throw ALL their money down a toilet on the PRETENSE that it betters humanity?

So finding a zero point way to create electricity, then emailing the plans for free to a few billion people.

We ALREADY had a similar thing happen! The device is called a nuclear reactor! Have you gotten your free power yet?

The a**** that suppress the creation of these systems, couldn't stop it, although they might try to find out who did it, and use the trumpeted up sex charges like Julie went through, to shut him up.

Nothing scares a socoipath with oil stocks, more than someone with the cash, giving a large chunk of humanity something that could make them better off. Especially when this goes viral like electricity did with Tessler. Once electricity was created from directing Niagara falls water, there was no stopping it.

So, since the 70 or earlier, suppression, bullying and even killing have been the norm to keep a lid on it, or dodgy science to keep people off the scent.

Control and profits, are gods in this world!

But one wealthy individual with some guts could start to turn things around!

You have got some CRAZY ideas! The CRAZIEST is how the people most likely to spout that dreck are the SAME that say nobody should get so rich or have such power, and that EVERYTHING should be taxed for the latest fad!

As for bullies and thieves, many ARE rich! That does NOT stop them! They like doing what they do!

Steve

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yukon Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

Not meaning to be picky or anything but they were actually 2 posts from Steve. So only one person.

It's the YELLING that sometimes confuses people.

Deuce Bigalow-Tourette Syndrome - YouTube
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- Kay King 10 years ago
  
  Is our favorite fluffy bunny activist on meds?
  
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screamkevin26

10 years ago

There can still be big advantages and disadvantages of this, I'm still thinking if they really thought about the things - pros and cons of what they're doing, Well, let's see what this new world system can do, I do take this seriously also.

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tagiscom

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I take everything in this thread...very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very seriously.

Hmmm!

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gladiator80

10 years ago

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tagiscom

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Hogre

Duuude, stop butchering good Tesla's name...or I'll be forced to sauté one of your fluffy bunnies.

You do, and you will never hear the end of it!

Originally Posted by Kay King

Is our favorite fluffy bunny activist on meds?

Damn, have a rant, and get labelled for life?

[quote=seasoned;9403054]EXACTLY!

Sounds like we need to wait for the aliens to step in, or get on the brink of a third world war?

*****SHOULD******!!!!!???? So you mean a millionare should throw ALL their money down a toilet on the PRETENSE that it betters humanity?

No, not all, a billionare, with no oil stock, could invest $50,000,000 for a world wide advertising campaign, for a legitimate and cheap way to generate electricity.

Although the scum of the earth would eventually catch up with him and drag him through the courts.

So it needs to be covert! Develop the lot behind closed doors, and email, see-spot-run plans out to the planet, so a few hundred thousand make it, then Youtube gets some videos, etc, etc, etc.

In the end the poor that need it the most, get a clean limitless way to create power for themselves.

Doubt that it would cost $50 million, probably do it for a lot less!

We ALREADY had a similar thing happen! The device is called a nuclear reactor! Have you gotten your free power yet?

Nuclear reactor, LOL, no l am talking about something that someone could build in their back yards, that if enough were linked together could power virtually anything!

But since we are discussing 240 vault, it is more likely a company would need to install it. But just like back yard solar panels, an individual could do it!

An individual couldn't build a nuclear reactor in his back yard!

Fission reactor same thing!

Fussion, not sure?

You have got some CRAZY ideas! The CRAZIEST is how the people most likely to spout that dreck are the SAME that say nobody should get so rich or have such power, and that EVERYTHING should be taxed for the latest fad!

As for bullies and thieves, many ARE rich! That does NOT stop them! They like doing what they do!

Steve

EXACTLY, sociopaths that would rather keep their $100, trillion in oil profits locked in the ground, than help some poor woman in a third world economy have a better life!

Too much of this, screw the poor so l can enjoy my 5 mansions on the beach, and have so much wealth, that l can go buy a solid silver BMW, just for the hell of it, (a oil sheak did this recently).

This can't be released commercially since it would cause a stock market crash and gearpadise tens of thousands of oil dependent jobs.

But just giving everyone a hint, that it is there, would be enough!

I am not knocking the rich, but knocking the rich that know there is a better system available, but do nothing!

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Kay King

10 years ago

Here's the problem with the man and woman who conceived and promoted this huge "world system".

The corporation they formed was for profit - they made big bucks on tours and speaking fees. The man became discredited as a "megalomaniac" and the woman for her "greed".

Whole story might have made a good novel, though

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TimPhelan 10 years ago

My friend Mark Joyner has talked often about the Venus Project and Jacque Fresco. He even created a product with Fresco about learning to draw.
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seasoned

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Here's the problem with the man and woman who conceived and promoted this huge "world system".

The corporation they formed was for profit - they made big bucks on tours and speaking fees. The man became discredited as a "megalomaniac" and the woman for her "greed".

Whole story might have made a good novel, though

It has already been done as a novel!! HECK, one variant of it was written 498 years ago. It was written in latin, but amazon has it translated to english. Since this idea is about a good place that can't exist, it is, in latinized fashion, simply called UTOPIA written by sir thomas more. Jules verne wrote a similar thing, that comes closer to the OP.

Frankly, human society is drifting ****AWAY**** from such a concept. OH, it is physically easier to design and build, but the mindset, and freedom, required, is RARE! .

Steve

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seasoned

10 years ago

Originally Posted by tagiscom

No, not all, a billionare, with no oil stock, could invest $50,000,000 for a world wide advertising campaign, for a legitimate and cheap way to generate electricity.

That has *********ALREADY BEEN DONE*********! They even did it in SCHOOLS! YEP, I WAS THERE!
Did it work? Well, about 20 years later the liars finally told the truth and started SOMETHING. But STILL, WHERE'S THE UTOPIA!?!?!?

Nuclear reactor, LOL, no l am talking about something that someone could build in their back yards, that if enough were linked together could power virtually anything!

OH, I'm SORRY! I DIDN'T KNOW! I had NO IDEA! Since I missed the link, and it would be a service to all and further yourcause, please include the link in this thread to the detailed plans.

BTW There HAVE been some small nuclear reactors built by students. One piece of property for sale in California had problems because of radioactivity due to one from a reactor that was there.

I am not knocking the rich, but knocking the rich that know there is a better system available, but do nothing!

YOU know there is something better, and are doing nothing. Spouting buzzwords and complaining is NOT DOING ANYTHING!

There are only THREE ways this can happen!

1. If EVERYONE is somehow FORCED. I see NO way this COULD, much less WOULD, ever happen. Theoretically IMPOSSIBLE!

2. If someone started a war and killed every dissenter, WORLDWIDE simultaneously. AGAIN, theoretically IMPOSSIBLE!

3. If someone INCREDIBLY RICH AND ALTRUISTIC(HIGHLY UNLIKELY), that was VERY charismatic, started a commune, like what Jewish people call a kibbutz, and built it along the heretofore mention stereotype. If they then managed to get some special allowances so they could continue and expand. In other words, the government would have to do the OPPOSITE of what it is doing now. HOPEFULLY, the commune could spread across the country and replace the government. But this takes that commodity I spoke of earlier!

*******WARNING!!!!!!******* #2 and, to a degree, #3, HAVE been done before. History shows that the US was created like that! SUPPOSEDLY Russia, Cuba, and China had the same kind of goals, but included #1. THEY all failed! OK, OK, the US seemed to work for a long time, but look at it NOW!

BTW Kibbutzim, communes, The US earlier, etc.... generally want members to PULL THEIR FAIR SHARE! YEAH, I said PULL! REMEMBER, ideally money means NOTHING! The idea is that the 99% do something for the 1%, and WHY? Because the 1% does something for them! So EVERYONE is SIMULTANEOUSLY the 99% doing the work, and the 1% benefiting from it. An all for one, one for all kind of deal. You want to relax all year? GREAT! DO IT SOMEPLACE ELSE!

Steve

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SteveJohnson

10 years ago

'Systems' such as these deny human nature, or expect that human nature will change. It will not.

Humans can't live together without rules, because despite a utopian vision, some of the strong will prey on the weak. Somebody will do something to someone else that causes a rule to be made against it.

Someone somewhere will do something, or think in a certain way, or say a certain thing that causes other people to think, "That's not right!" They will make a rule against it.

If there are rules, there will have to be those that enforce them. They will have power, more than they had before the rules, because it is necessary that they do. If there are rules, someone will live only to break them. It will be their aim in life. If there are rules, there has to be punishment.

If there are rules, there also must be a group of people that make and administer them. They will have power over others, because it is necessary. Without the power to enforce the rules and control the enforcers and the punishers, rules are useless.

Now that there are rules, and enforcement, and punishment, everyone is not equal. Power has privilege, and some who don't have it will want it. Some who have it won't want to give up their power.

Someone who wants power badly enough will try and force one who has it to give it up. This person will form alliances with others who think the same. Another group of people think that the person in power should be left in power. We know what happens next.

Utopia is, and can only be, an exercise in imagination.

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seasoned

10 years ago

Originally Posted by SteveJohnson

'Systems' such as these deny human nature, or expect that human nature will change. It will not.

Though I REFUSE to call it "human nature", because many humans don't start out, or have to end up that way, you hit the nail on the head. EXACTLY!!!!!!

Steve

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tagiscom

10 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

That has *********ALREADY BEEN DONE*********! They even did it in SCHOOLS! YEP, I WAS THERE!
Did it work? Well, about 20 years later the liars finally told the truth and started SOMETHING. But STILL, WHERE'S THE UTOPIA!?!?!?

OH, I'm SORRY! I DIDN'T KNOW! I had NO IDEA! Since I missed the link, and it would be a service to all and further yourcause, please include the link in this thread to the detailed plans.

Just Google it, there are several examples of systems that would spin for up to 1000 years, if unencumbered by wear and tear.

BTW There HAVE been some small nuclear reactors built by students. One piece of property for sale in California had problems because of radioactivity due to one from a reactor that was there.

Ok, interesting, but l would rather play around with magnets than that stuff!

YOU know there is something better, and are doing nothing. Spouting buzzwords and complaining is NOT DOING ANYTHING!

True, l have used up my rant quotient for the month l think?

There are only THREE ways this can happen!

1. If EVERYONE is somehow FORCED. I see NO way this COULD, much less WOULD, ever happen. Theoretically IMPOSSIBLE!

2. If someone started a war and killed every dissenter, WORLDWIDE simultaneously. AGAIN, theoretically IMPOSSIBLE!

3. If someone INCREDIBLY RICH AND ALTRUISTIC(HIGHLY UNLIKELY), that was VERY charismatic, started a commune, like what Jewish people call a kibbutz, and built it along the heretofore mention stereotype. If they then managed to get some special allowances so they could continue and expand. In other words, the government would have to do the OPPOSITE of what it is doing now. HOPEFULLY, the commune could spread across the country and replace the government. But this takes that commodity I spoke of earlier!

Or someone did a mass email for blueprints, for one of these things.

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lanfear63

10 years ago

Here we go again...

Earth, recommended population, 500m to 1 billion. Actual population 7 going on to 8 billion.

Reduce population to recommended amount = abundance. Effect on Earths resources, negligible, pollution, negligible.

How you go about it from where we are now and will increasingly be...just keep on the way we are. To far gone to try and regulate it ourselves. too divided, too overcrowded.

The Earth and Solar System are self regulating in the end. We will be eventually wiped out or greatly reduced by our pollution and disease, wars, starvation, weather, natural disasters, asteroids, whatever, Thats a 100 percent certainty.

Forget all other arguments on this thread about political systems, religion, or even science saving us as we are now. Irrelevant.

Hopefully there will be enough left to realize the errors we made and build something more stable.

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tagiscom

10 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

Here we go again...

Earth, recommended population, 500m to 1 billion. Actual population 7 going on to 8 billion.

Reduce population to recommended amount = abundance. Effect on Earths resources, negligible, pollution, negligible.

How you go about it from where we are now and will increasingly be...just keep on the way we are. To far gone to try and regulate it ourselves. too divided, too overcrowded.

The Earth and Solar System are self regulating in the end. We will be eventually wiped out or greatly reduced by our pollution and disease, wars, starvation, weather, natural disasters, asteroids, whatever, Thats a 100 percent certainty.

Forget all other arguments on this thread about political systems, religion, or even science saving us as we are now. Irrelevant.

Hopefully there will be enough left to realize the errors we made and build something more stable.

No if l am right, we will virtually destroy the Earth, and then make a bee-line for Mars!

Whether we will learn our lessons and make a sustainable new start, is up in the air? Probably not!

The fluffy bunnies will just have to get out of the way!

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seasoned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

Hopefully there will be enough left to realize the errors we made and build something more stable.

I hate to say it, but the path to eden, and paradise, *******HERE******* was given in the first book in the old testament. People missed it! It is also aluded to in Revelation! ALAS, people missed that. This isn't religious, it has NOTHING to do with God! But I will tell you the secret!

The first book, Genesis, says we have all we need. People make a big deal about the forbidden fruit. They RARELY name the fruit and, USUALLY, when they do, they MANGLE the name so it makes NO MORE SENSE!

The public names the fruit. "The forbidden fruit" or "The fruit of the tree of knowledge". BOTH are VERY incorrect and basically propaganda.

The REAL name is "The forbidden fruit of the tree of THE knowledge OF GOOD AND EVIL"

Genesis 2 16The LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; 17but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

SO, one way or another, whether an actual tree or whatever, people came up with the idea of in some way benefiting from OTHER peoples work. And it really does boil down to that ONE simple concept. Whether robbing a person at gun point, stealing credit, conning, hijacking a plane, or copying another persons paper or ideas, it is that idea of benefiting from another persons work. THAT is how many think!

A TRUE utopian idea has to turn that on its ear! It has to say HEY, I can do a bit more work! Pick up that litter! Give away some extra fruit grown. Help a person paint their place, because it NEEDS it! And ALL should get proper credit, and payment in kind. It is the OPPOSITE of that list I posted earlier. Strangers can become FRIENDS!

But most won't get it! And the US Government, like RUSSIA, CLAIMS they force such concerns through laws and or taxes, but those making the laws are the same STUPID people that MUST NOT BE INVOLVED! They don't do it for altruistic reasons. Sometimes the end DOESN'T justify the means. If you paint the home of a lazy person that WON'T help out accordingly, you have squandered your time, and it stops there. Like the Bible says "Don't cast your pearls before swine".

HEY, I quote the bible because it is easy and shows these ideas have been around a LONG time. It isn't to be religious.

Steve
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seasoned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by tagiscom

Or someone did a mass email for blueprints, for one of these things.

NOPE, that wouldn't work. But you are WELCOME to try!

Steve
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