2 Americans infected with Ebola virus being transferred to Atlanta. Dumb! Government Dumb!!!

by Joe Mobley 67 replies
Atlanta (CNN)
-- The Ebola virus is coming to the United States for what's thought to be the first time, as two Americans return home after getting infected while helping others cope with the outbreak ravaging West Africa.
Typical

American

Government

Stupidity!

"We depend on the body's defenses to control the virus," Ribner said. "We just have to keep the patient alive long enough in order for the body to control this infection."
As of now, the outbreak has been confined to West Africa, but it is getting worse there.
So, let's bring it here to America. Brilliant!

This may not be the dumbest decision made by a politician, but it's a contender.

Joe Mobley
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Blades
    Relax dude, they have them contained. Maybe we should just tie them on a one way rocket to Mars
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
      How about we leave them right where they are, where they have facilities already setup with medical professionals experienced with Ebola.

      As far as sending something to Mars, let's start with your condescending attitude... dude.

      Joe Mobley

      Originally Posted by Alex Blades View Post

      Relax dude, they have them contained. Maybe we should just tie them on a one way rocket to Mars
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      • Profile picture of the author Alex Blades
        Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

        How about we leave them right where they are, where they have facilities already setup with medical professionals experienced with Ebola.

        As far as sending something to Mars, let's start with your condescending attitude... dude.

        Joe Mobley
        Relax dude, I was only messing with you.

        You just can't decide to leave an America abroad, just because he got sick. Some guy in another thread suggested that we kill them, I mean come man. You guys sound like the people in the movies who try and climb onto a small raft, and using someones head to get aboard and drowning them in the process.

        Two Americans got sick, and the best thing to do is try and contain it. If you don't contain it, can be disastrous.

        They CAN'T contain them! They have to be potentially exposed to go there, to put them in an insolation chamber, to put them on a ship, to take them here, etc.... etc... etc....

        "Relax dude, they have them contained."

        YEP, that is EXACTLY what they told these guys when THEY went over there!

        Let's say they are FINALLY right, and 100% perfect! They achieve NOTHING!!!!!!! They couldhave done it over THERE! Let's say they are WRONG! They could spread it in the US!

        OK, let's say a guy had a vial of bedbugs and took them into your hotel. Would you be OK with that? WHY NOT? The WORST that would happen is your hotel gets infected, gets a bad reputation, and you lose some revenue. If I owned the hotel, and knew the manager would let the guy stay there, I would fire and even blackball that manager ON THE SPOT! And THAT wouldn't kill people!
        Damn dude, you sound like the world is going to end tonight
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          I expect the foundation that sent them to work in Africa is paying to bring them back here.

          I have not seen Monsanto mentioned but a doctor from CDC said a US pharma is working on a vaccine for ebola. Could really help researchers to have the people here in the US for that reason.

          They are also going to try something call antibody therapy which has not been tested yet in real ebola cases - and can't be done on site in Africa.

          These people are not a threat - they are US citizens who need to come home. The containment/quarantine equipments is the same used for SARS in the past - and SARS is far easier to transmit than ebola.

          Kinda a drastic way to clean the criminals out of the white house, huh?
          True that. It's the entourages that worry me. The maids and assistants - the gofers and wardrobe and waitstaff....the security people and family members of the leaders. These are the people most likely to come in contact with regular citizens as they shop/dine out/spend time in hotels and shops/rented limos and taxis.

          Ebola is not contagious until the symptoms begin to appear - so have to wonder if there's any screening process for these people coming to the US next week.

          I guess if there's a problem - we could quarantine D.C.
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          • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            These people are not a threat - they are US citizens who need to come home. The containment/quarantine equipments is the same used for SARS in the past - and SARS is far easier to transmit than ebola.
            Kay, you will need a much higher level of containment and expense for Ebola than SARS. I think it is highly commendable that the US is bringing them home.
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            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
              Derek -

              Why? A doctor from the CDC was explaining that this morning and pointed out SARS is airborne and ebola is not. I've heard several doctors answering questions and read comments that SARS is easier to transmit from person to person than ebola.

              Educate me.

              Derek - one more question. Ebola is a hemorrhagic disease. Wasn't Bubonic Plauge also that type of disease? I know it was spread to humans by mosquitoes who picked it up from rats (at least I think that's right). So - question: Is the type of disease (hemorrhagic) common to isease spread to humans by animals? Is there a reason for that?

              I hope that makes sense - I know what I'm asking but not sure anyone else would.
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              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                Derek -

                Why? A doctor from the CDC was explaining that this morning and pointed out SARS is airborne and ebola is not. I've heard several doctors answering questions and read comments that SARS is easier to transmit from person to person than ebola.

                Educate me.

                Derek - one more question. Ebola is a hemorrhagic disease. Wasn't Bubonic Plauge also that type of disease? I know it was spread to humans by mosquitoes who picked it up from rats (at least I think that's right). So - question: Is the type of disease (hemorrhagic) common to isease spread to humans by animals? Is there a reason for that?

                I hope that makes sense - I know what I'm asking but not sure anyone else would.
                Your reasonable questions, and rational train of thought isn't welcome here.
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              • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
                Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                Derek -

                Why? A doctor from the CDC was explaining that this morning and pointed out SARS is airborne and ebola is not. I've heard several doctors answering questions and read comments that SARS is easier to transmit from person to person than ebola.

                Educate me.

                Derek - one more question. Ebola is a hemorrhagic disease. Wasn't Bubonic Plauge also that type of disease? I know it was spread to humans by mosquitoes who picked it up from rats (at least I think that's right). So - question: Is the type of disease (hemorrhagic) common to isease spread to humans by animals? Is there a reason for that?

                I hope that makes sense - I know what I'm asking but not sure anyone else would.
                Kay, the classification of containment levels is quite arbitrary and political. It is based mainly on the severity of the infection and the likelihood of spread. There is definitely a case that SARS should be treated on the same level as Ebola but it was simply impractical. Very few countries have hospital and laboratories for level 4.

                Bubonic plaque is not a hemorrhagic disease. It is spread directly from rats to humans and do not need a mosquito vector.
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                • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
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                  Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

                  It is spread directly from rats to humans and do not need a mosquito vector.
                  Actually, it was spread by fleas that were carried by rats. - Frank
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                  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                    Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                    Actually, it was spread by fleas that were carried by rats. - Frank
                    LOL. I love it. I wonder how many people got it.
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                    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
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                      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                      LOL. I love it. I wonder how many people got it.
                      41 Interesting Facts About . . .The Black Death
                      1. A plague epidemic swept through Europe from 1348 through 1351, killing an estimated 25–60% of Europeans. Some estimates are as high as 2/3 of the population.b
                      2. The exact death toll is difficult to measure from medieval sources. The number of deaths varied considerably by area and depending on the source. Current estimates are that between 75 and 200 million people died from the plague.c
                      3. The term "Black Death" is recent. During the plague, it was called "the Great Mortality" or "the Pestilence."i
                      4. Although the period known as the Black Death ended in 1351, the plague continued to return to Europe, with epidemics every few years through the end of the fifteenth century.d
                      5. The Black Death was the second plague pandemic of the Middle Ages. Justinian’s Plague in the sixth century was deadly and widespread, but did not create the same devastation as the second pandemic.d
                      6. The Black Death followed a period of population growth in Europe which, combined with two years of cold weather and torrential rains that wiped out grain crops, resulted in a shortage of food for humans and rats. This caused people and animals to crowd in cities, providing an optimal environment for disease.d
                      7. In 1346, rumors of a plague that started in China and spread throughout Asia, Persia, Syria, Egypt, and India reached Europe. All of India was rumored to have been depopulated.i
                      8. The first named victims of the plague died in 1338 and 1339 in the area around Lake Issyk Kul (Lake Baikal) in Russia, where a grave marker says, "In the year of the hare (1339). This is the grave of Kutluk. He died of the plague with his wife, Magnu-Kelka."c
                      9. During a siege of the Genoese city of Kaffa by the Tatars in 1347, the inhabitants were reportedly infected with the plague when the Tatars threw the bodies of plague victims into the city.d
                      10. In November 1347, a fleet of Genoese trading ships landed in Messina, Sicily after trading along the coast from the Black Sea to Italy. The ships carried dead and dying sailors, many of whom had strange black growths on their necks, in their armpits, or in their groins. Many coughed blood. Those who were alive died within days.i
                      11. From Sicily, the disease took three years to sweep through Europe, moving north and traveling as far as Iceland and Greenland. The plague and simultaneous climate changes put an end to the European colonies on the coast of Greenland.c
                      12. In Siena, more than half the population died. Work stopped on the city’s great cathedral, planned to be the biggest in the world, and was never resumed. The truncated transept still stands as reminder of the death that halted construction.i
                      13. In May 1349, the plague reached Bergen, Norway, on a ship carrying wool from England. Within days of arriving in Bergen, the crew and passengers of the ship had all died.d
                      14. Most experts agree that the plague was caused by Yersinia pestis (or Y. pestis), a bacillus carried by fleas that live primarily on rats and other rodents that were common in medieval dwellings.d
                      15. Since the 1980s, several researchers have blamed other diseases, including anthrax and typhus, for the plague. The argument claims that other diseases spread more easily between people without the required flea vector and can display similar symptoms.c
                      16. A November 2000 study of tooth pulp in a French plague grave showed the presence of Y. pestis in all of 20 samples from three victims.c
                      17. Y. Pestis infects its flea by blocking its stomach. The flea tries repeatedly to feed, but the blockage causes it to regurgitate bacilli into its host. When the host dies, the flea and its offspring seek a new host, infesting humans when necessary.a
                      18. Y. pestis causes three varieties of plague: bubonic plague, caused by bites from infected fleas, in which the bacteria moves to lymph nodes and quickly multiplies, forming growths, or buboes; pneumonic plague, a lung infection that causes its victim to cough blood and spread the bacteria from person to person; and septicemic plague, a blood infection that is almost always fatal.c
                      19. The mortality rate for humans who caught the bubonic plague was 30-75%. The pneumonic plague killed 90-95% of its victims. The septicemic plague killed nearly 100% of the people it infected and still has no cure to this day.a
                      20. Medieval doctors believed the plague had at least one of several causes. Many thought it was a punishment from God for the sins of the people.d
                      21. Many also believed the plague was caused by pockets of bad air released by earthquakes or by an unfavorable alignment of Saturn, Jupiter, and Mars in the 40th degree of Aquarius on March 20, 1345.f
                      22. Virtually nobody suspected the ever-present rats and fleas.e
                      23. The Jews were often accused of causing the plague to destroy Christiansf, even though Jews and Muslims were as likely to be infected as Christians.c
                      24. After being tortured, some Jews confessed that they were poisoning wells and other water sources, creating the plague. As a result, Jews were expelled or killed by the thousands.i
                      25. As a result of forced confessions, the entire Jewish population of Strassburg, Germany, was given the choice to convert to Christianity or be burned on rows of stakes on a platform in the city’s burial ground. About 2,000 were killed.h
                      26. Many doctors believed that bad smells could drive out the plague. As a result, some of the treatment for the disease included dung and urine, as well as other ingredients that were more likely to spread disease than to cure it.c
                      27. Other ways purported to prevent or cure the plague were to be happy and avoid bad thoughts, drink good wine, avoid eating fruit, put fragrant herbs in beverages, avoid lechery, do not abuse the poor, eat and drink in moderation, maintain a household in accordance with a person’s status, and so on.g
                      28. Bathing during the plague was discouraged for two reasons. First, along with changing clothes, it was a sign of vanity, which invited the wrath of God and the punishment of sin. Second, bathing was believed to open the pores, making it easier for bad air to enter and exit the body, spreading disease. The latter belief was common throughout Europe well into the the nineteenth century.d
                      29. Eau de Cologne and other perfumes were first used during the plague to cover up odors due to not bathing or changing clothing.d
                      30. Although the poor were hit hardest, nobility didn’t escape. King Alfonso XI of Castile and León was the only reigning monarch to die, but many members of royal families from Naples to England were killed.i
                      31. Bodies were piled up inside and outside city walls where they lay until mass graves could be dug. This contributed to the bad air and helped to spread the disease.d
                      32. Closed communities, such as monasteries and nunneries, were especially vulnerable. If one person became infected, the whole community might die. And because friars and nuns tended the sick, infection among them was common.e
                      33. Gherardo, brother of the famous humanist Petrarch and a monk in the monastery of Montriuex, was the only survivor of the plague in his monastery, along with his dog. He buried the other 34 monks himself.e
                      34. Of 140 Dominican brothers in Montpellier, only seven survived.i
                      35. English soldiers carried the disease from France to England, beginning an especially devastating round of plague in England that some estimates claim killed as much as 75% of the population in many areas.d
                      36. Prior to the Black Death, music was plentiful and cheerful. During the plague, music was rare and grim. Other art forms, including visual arts and literature, also reflect the misery of the time.a
                      37. As the population dwindled and society crumbled, old rules were ignored. The Catholic church lost influence, creating the seeds that led to Protestantism.c
                      38. The attempts to find cures for the plague started the momentum toward development of the scientific method and the changes in thinking that led to the Renaissance.c
                      39. After the Black Death, plague epidemics continued to ravage Europe. For example, London was struck by the Great Plague of 1665, with thousands of deaths. This plague was followed almost immediately by the Great Fire, leaving London devastated.d
                      40. A third pandemic began in China and India in the 1890s and eventually reached the United States, with infections being especially dangerous in the San Francisco Bay Area. It was during this pandemic that the real cause (Y. pestis) was discovered, along with a cure.d
                      41. Plague continues to survive in the modern world, with Y. pestis foci in Asia, Russia, the American Southwest, and other areas where the host rodents and fleas live. Today, though, it is rarely fatal.d
                      -- Posted June 9, 2009
                      References
                      a "The Black Death 1347-1350." Insecta -Inspecta.com. Accessed: May 25, 2009.
                      b Borst, Arno. 1980. Lebensformen im Mittelalter. Vienna, Austria: Ullstein Bücher.
                      c Byrne, Joseph P. 2004. The Black Death. Westport, CT: Greenwood Press.
                      d Kelly, John. 2005. The Great Mortality. New York, NY: HarperCollins.
                      e Kotker, Norman, ed. 1984. The Middle Ages. New York, NY: American Heritage/Bonanza Books.
                      f Kreis, Steven. 2006. "Satan Triumphant: The Black Death." Accessed: May 25, 2009.
                      g Lydgate, John. "A Diet and Doctrine for the Pestilence." In The Black Death by Joseph P. Byrne, 162-166. See Byrne 2004.
                      h "The Strassburg Chronicle." In The Black Death by Joseph P. Byrne, 186-188. See Byrne 2004.
                      i Tuchman, Barbara W. 1978. A Distant Mirror: The Calamitous 14th Century. New York, NY: Ballantine Books.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
                        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                        Derek - one more question. Ebola is a hemorrhagic disease. Wasn't Bubonic Plauge also that type of disease? I know it was spread to humans by mosquitoes who picked it up from rats (at least I think that's right). So - question: Is the type of disease (hemorrhagic) common to isease spread to humans by animals? Is there a reason for that?
                        Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

                        Bubonic plaque is not a hemorrhagic disease. It is spread directly from rats to humans and do not need a mosquito vector.
                        Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                        Actually, it was spread by fleas that were carried by rats.
                        We were all taught in school that the Bubonic Plague (or Black Death) was spread by fleas from infected rats, but the latest research suggests that the rats may have been given a bum rap.

                        DNA evidence from recently excavated skeletons in London has led some scientists to believe that the Black Death was, in fact, a pneumonic plague rather than a bubonic one. In other words, it was an airborne infection.

                        According to scientists working at Public Health England in Porton Down, for any plague to spread at such a pace it must have got into the lungs of victims who were malnourished and then been spread by coughs and sneezes. "As an explanation [rat fleas] for the Black Death in its own right, it simply isn't good enough. It cannot spread fast enough from one household to the next to cause the huge number of cases that we saw during the Black Death epidemics" said Dr Tim Brooks, a scientist from Porton Down.

                        Black death skeletons reveal pitiful life of 14th-century Londoners | Science | The Observer

                        Rats Didn't Spread Black Death, Humans Did, Say Researchers

                        Was Ebola Behind the Black Death? - ABC News

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                        • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                          Banned
                          Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

                          We were all taught in school that the Bubonic Plague (or Black Death) was spread by fleas from infected rats, but the latest research suggests that the rats may have been given a bum rap.

                          DNA evidence from recently excavated skeletons in London has led some scientists to believe that the Black Death was, in fact, a pneumonic plague rather than a bubonic one. In other words, it was an airborne infection.

                          According to scientists working at Public Health England in Porton Down, for any plague to spread at such a pace it must have got into the lungs of victims who were malnourished and then been spread by coughs and sneezes. "As an explanation [rat fleas] for the Black Death in its own right, it simply isn't good enough. It cannot spread fast enough from one household to the next to cause the huge number of cases that we saw during the Black Death epidemics" said Dr Tim Brooks, a scientist from Porton Down.

                          Black death skeletons reveal pitiful life of 14th-century Londoners | Science | The Observer

                          Rats Didn't Spread Black Death, Humans Did, Say Researchers

                          Was Ebola Behind the Black Death? - ABC News

                          .
                          As with most things, there will always be scientists with opposing points of view and for every one that says it was cause 'A' there will be others that say it was cause 'B' meaning that basically, they don't know squat. Additionally, individuals, after reading both sides of the issue are going to go with the scenario which seems most plausible to them. That's just human nature. To attempt to argue these issues is a meaningless exercise as the only thing that you can be assured of is if you wait another year there will be another theory for the scientist to argue over. It's what they do. To them, it's 'sport.'

                          At a personal level, I couldn't care less as I'm more concerned with the ailments that I already have that are well on their way to killing me.

                          Cheers. - Frank
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                          • Profile picture of the author LynnM
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                          • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
                            Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                            As with most things, there will always be scientists with opposing points of view and for every one that says it was cause 'A' there will be others that say it was cause 'B' meaning that basically, they don't know squat. Additionally, individuals, after reading both sides of the issue are going to go with the scenario which seems most plausible to them. That's just human nature. To attempt to argue these issues is a meaningless exercise as the only thing that you can be assured of is if you wait another year there will be another theory for the scientist to argue over. It's what they do. To them, it's 'sport.'
                            I'm not emotionally or intellectually invested in the story either way. But there have been so many "facts" taught to us in school that have since proved to be utterly bogus, that I'm at least willing to entertain this latest theory.

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                            • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
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                              Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

                              I'm not emotionally or intellectually invested in the story either way. But there have been so many "facts" taught to us in school that have since proved to be utterly bogus, that I'm at least willing to entertain this latest theory..
                              I'm perfectly willing to entertain any theory, I just don't accept any of them as indisputable fact. That said, I know what you mean about the things we were taught in school. I attended Catholic school until the 6th grade.

                              Cheers. - Frank
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                              • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
                                Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                                I'm perfectly willing to entertain any theory, I just don't accept any of them as indisputable fact.
                                It's a fact that there are very few indisputable facts.

                                I attended Catholic school until the 6th grade.
                                Luxury! 10th grade (equivalent) for me.

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                  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                    Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                    Actually, it was spread by fleas that were carried by rats. - Frank
                    You're right about the fleas being such a big part. Fleas or rats though, it was/is transmissible. Rats infest, and can bite, and either way, THEY can spread the disease as well.

                    The bubonic plague was apparently bacterial so, HOPEFULLY, it won't happen again. HOPEFULLY rats will be kept in check, and there HAVE been some measures to keep vectors like fleas down. HOPEFULLY the many that seem FINE with such diseases being kept down will be kept in check. A lot of people have the SAME behavior that caused things like the bubonic plague. You only have to watch things like the shows that try to restore restaurants to profitability to see that. Nearly ALL have hygiene problems. MANY have insect problems. Some even have RODENT problems.

                    Steve
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              • Profile picture of the author Pura Vida
                Ebola not being transmitted through the air is up for debate...

                From Pigs to Monkeys, Ebola Goes Airborne | HealthMap



                Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                Derek -

                Why? A doctor from the CDC was explaining that this morning and pointed out SARS is airborne and ebola is not. I've heard several doctors answering questions and read comments that SARS is easier to transmit from person to person than ebola.

                Educate me.

                Derek - one more question. Ebola is a hemorrhagic disease. Wasn't Bubonic Plauge also that type of disease? I know it was spread to humans by mosquitoes who picked it up from rats (at least I think that's right). So - question: Is the type of disease (hemorrhagic) common to isease spread to humans by animals? Is there a reason for that?

                I hope that makes sense - I know what I'm asking but not sure anyone else would.
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                • Profile picture of the author positivenegative
                  Infected doctor lands in US, and Ebola virus outbreak annual stats:

                  Ebola crisis: Infected doctor Kent Brantly lands in US
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                • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                  Originally Posted by Pura Vida View Post

                  Ebola not being transmitted through the air is up for debate...

                  From Pigs to Monkeys, Ebola Goes Airborne | HealthMap
                  It's been confirmed - it is airborne.....or at least strains of it are. They've also found it can live outside the host for several days. I'm still not sure if it needs liquid or not.
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                  • Profile picture of the author cbpayne
                    oh dear .........
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                    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                      Every since this forum changed - I can't view a thumbnail. I get an error message of " do not have permission" to view it. Frustrating.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                        Every doctor and virologist treatment this particular epidemic says it is not airborne. That article says "can't be sure" but then goes on to conjecture.

                        The facts are frightening enough without exaggerating the risk but some bloggers will exaggerate and speculate anyway.
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                        • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                          Every doctor and virologist treatment this particular epidemic says it is not airborne. That article says "can't be sure" but then goes on to conjecture.

                          The facts are frightening enough without exaggerating the risk but some bloggers will exaggerate and speculate anyway.

                          Kay - it's not listed as "airborne" yet because they don't know if it needs liquid or not. If not, it's completely airborne and all isolation instructions from the CDC and WHO instruct patients to be kept in isolation that prevents airborne illness spread. I just saw something the other day that said it's been found it can live outside the host for several days, too.

                          Now considering that it may need liquid (aerosol - which is what they think the airborne limitation is at the time) it can't get as far, but it can still be contracted in the vicinity of anyone sick with it without touching the person or what they have touched. Now they are looking into whether it is completely airborne. Some strains are more likely so than others. The strain that they stopped in the US in the late 80's they think is airborne, because the monkeys were in two different rooms with the only method of transmission being an air duct.

                          I'm still looking for the links I had on the studies. All I can find is links to things like BBC articles. It would be wise to consider it aerosol transmission, though, even if not full capacity air-borne (which it doesn't seem to be).
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                          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                            I looked hard for links to CREDIBLE articles and did not find a single claim that this is an airborne strain.

                            Not saying it might not translate into that if it spreads far enough or long enough. But there is enough to worry about with this ebola outbreak without turning it into something it isn't. And no matter how it spreads - it has to be managed in every country where it is making an appearance.

                            I think the insistence on having the summit next week is administrative stubbornness and could put the people of this country at risk.
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                            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                              I looked hard for links to CREDIBLE articles and did not find a single claim that this is an airborne strain.
                              Kay; That's your first mistake, thinking articles have to be credible. Most people just go with whatever supports their fantasy at the time.

                              Like I said before, you're an oasis of reason in a desert of crap.
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                              • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                                The Ebola virus is airborne as long as you lob infected human beings at each other.

                                If you fly them home in planes it is also airborne.

                                Sheeze, its just basic science.
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                              • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                Kay; That's your first mistake, thinking articles have to be credible. Most people just go with whatever supports their fantasy at the time.

                                Like I said before, you're an oasis of reason in a desert of crap.
                                The truth is, there IS no credibility on the Internet when it comes to things like this. You have your alarmists on the one side, your optimists on the other, and in the middle you have the government and all its agencies doing damage control and spin.

                                Can we really be sure that we've gotten the truth about anything in the history of this country?

                                I'm not.
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                                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                  Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                                  The truth is, there IS no credibility on the Internet when it comes to things like this. You have your alarmists on the one side, your optimists on the other, and in the middle you have the government and all its agencies doing damage control and spin.
                                  We can't be 100% sure of anything. But we can be almost certainly sure that political blogs, conspiracy blogs, and commentary blogs, will be at least partly wrong.

                                  If you're going to believe any version of a story, a good bet is to take the official story...from NEWS sources (Remember, the NEWS?). And if they start placing blame, or offering opinion...then you know to look elsewhere.

                                  Usually, from my experience, waiting for facts is a good investment of time. And there are other places than the internet. A decent newspaper, for example.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                                    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                    We can't be 100% sure of anything. But we can be almost certainly sure that political blogs, conspiracy blogs, and commentary blogs, will be at least partly wrong.

                                    If you're going to believe any version of a story, a good bet is to take the official story...from NEWS sources (Remember, the NEWS?). And if they start placing blame, or offering opinion...then you know to look elsewhere.

                                    Usually, from my experience, waiting for facts is a good investment of time. And there are other places than the internet. A decent newspaper, for example.
                                    So where do you get the news? HECK, I think I will go to DW.DE more and more even for US news. DW.DE even has things that could be said to be against germany, which is as it SHOULD be. But MSNBC, CNN, CSPAN, RT, etc.... have the news SLANTED if at all. And WHEN did the average american start listening to the likes of RT? Several reporters have QUIT RT, or been heavily vocally AGAINST them because of Russian propaganda.

                                    Steve
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                                  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                                    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                    We can't be 100% sure of anything. But we can be almost certainly sure that political blogs, conspiracy blogs, and commentary blogs, will be at least partly wrong.

                                    If you're going to believe any version of a story, a good bet is to take the official story...from NEWS sources (Remember, the NEWS?). And if they start placing blame, or offering opinion...then you know to look elsewhere.

                                    Usually, from my experience, waiting for facts is a good investment of time. And there are other places than the internet. A decent newspaper, for example.
                                    Unfortunately, newspapers have agendas and biases too. Our local paper is horrible in its biases.

                                    I believed Walter Cronkite, Roger Grimsby and Bill Butell. They're all dead and with them died credible news as far as I'm concerned.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
                        I got the same error.

                        Joe Mobley

                        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                        Every since this forum changed - I can't view a thumbnail. I get an error message of " do not have permission" to view it. Frustrating.
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                      • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                        Banned
                        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                        Every since this forum changed - I can't view a thumbnail. I get an error message of " do not have permission" to view it. Frustrating.
                        Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

                        I got the same error.

                        Joe Mobley
                        Using Chrome I can view the image but it makes me re-login to the forum to do so. Paul has noted that this has been an issue for the past several months (the re-login).

                        Cheers

                        -don
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          • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post


            Ebola is not contagious until the symptoms begin to appear - so have to wonder if there's any screening process for these people coming to the US next week.

            They're all supposed to be tested before they leave their country of origin and then tested again once they arrive in the U.S. before being exposed to anyone.
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            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
              That's good to know but I have to wonder if postponing travel would not be the wiser choice.

              Diagnosis | Ebola Hemorrhagic Fever | CDC

              As Frank pointed out - I confused my mosquitoes with my fleas (both small and both bite) in the Black Death comments. My perception was the disease began with flea bites but then was transmitted from human to human either through physical contact or airborne. Probably half of what I think I know about it is wrong.

              http://www.globalresearch.ca/ebola-2...moters/5394425
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        • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
          Originally Posted by Alex Blades View Post

          Relax dude, I was only messing with you.
          Fair enough. My apologies.

          Originally Posted by Alex Blades View Post

          You just can't decide to leave an America abroad, just because he got sick. Some guy in another thread suggested that we kill them, I mean come man.
          I am not dismissive or inconsiderate of those who are ill. I would think that, at this moment in time, they would receive better Ebola-centric care where they are (were). I also think they would be less of a threat to the US population if they weren't in "government housing" in Atlanta.

          Originally Posted by Alex Blades View Post

          Two Americans got sick, and the best thing to do is try and contain it. If you don't contain it, can be disastrous.
          On this we agree.

          The two primary concerns, as I see it, are the health of the patients and the containment that you spoke of.

          Flying an incubating Ebola patient into the states seems to be a big threat to the containment issue.

          Joe Mobley
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          • Profile picture of the author Alex Blades
            Honestly Joe Mobley, as bad as it sounds, I rather have them here in the U.S where we have the resources to contain it. If you leave them abroad, who knows what can happen. Not only will they be able to contain it, but since Americans are involved, they can work to try and cure this thing.
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by Alex Blades View Post

      Relax dude, they have them contained. Maybe we should just tie them on a one way rocket to Mars
      Are you sure?
      Anthrax Missing From Army Lab

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      CDC Cracks Down on Labs After Anthrax, Bird Flu Scares - NBC News
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Alex Blades View Post

      Relax dude, they have them contained. Maybe we should just tie them on a one way rocket to Mars
      They CAN'T contain them! They have to be potentially exposed to go there, to put them in an insolation chamber, to put them on a ship, to take them here, etc.... etc... etc....

      "Relax dude, they have them contained."

      YEP, that is EXACTLY what they told these guys when THEY went over there!

      Let's say they are FINALLY right, and 100% perfect! They achieve NOTHING!!!!!!! They couldhave done it over THERE! Let's say they are WRONG! They could spread it in the US!

      OK, let's say a guy had a vial of bedbugs and took them into your hotel. Would you be OK with that? WHY NOT? The WORST that would happen is your hotel gets infected, gets a bad reputation, and you lose some revenue. If I owned the hotel, and knew the manager would let the guy stay there, I would fire and even blackball that manager ON THE SPOT! And THAT wouldn't kill people!

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    No - Joe - not dumb. They are being transported in a spacial plane - special trucks and the hospital is one of the four in the US set up for full quarantine. They can get better support care here - but also provide cases for our scientists to study so hopefully we will be better prepared if cases ever appear in the US.

    There's a much greater risk and it's getting very little press....

    Next week leaders of African countries coming to the US for a "summit" in D.C.

    I'm not much worried about the 47 leaders flying in from Africa - but I think we should be very worried about the contingents of support staff each will be bringing with him. This could be thousands of people from countries in Africa (including countries with ebola) mingling with US citizens in the capital.

    African leaders pull out of Obama summit to deal with Ebola outbreak - CBS News
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      No - Joe - not dumb. They are being transported in a spacial plane - special trucks and the hospital is one of the four in the US set up for full quarantine. They can get better support care here - but also provide cases for our scientists to study so hopefully we will be better prepared if cases ever appear in the US.

      There's a much greater risk and it's getting very little press....

      Next week leaders of African countries coming to the US for a "summit" in D.C.

      I'm not much worried about the 47 leaders flying in from Africa - but I think we should be very worried about the contingents of support staff each will be bringing with him. This could be thousands of people from countries in Africa (including countries with ebola) mingling with US citizens in the capital.

      African leaders pull out of Obama summit to deal with Ebola outbreak - CBS News

      Here's a video about how they plan to keep the patients contained.

      How U.S. hospital plans to keep Ebola contained - CBS News
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

        Here's a video about how they plan to keep the patients contained.

        How U.S. hospital plans to keep Ebola contained - CBS News
        They are going to take them SEPARATELY!?!?!? That means a greater chance of failure, and exposure!

        Frankly, they have made SO MANY mistakes in containing such things, that it is foolish to talk about it being foolproof. The FACT is that it ISN'T foolproof!

        Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      No - Joe - not dumb. They are being transported in a spacial plane - special trucks and the hospital is one of the four in the US set up for full quarantine. They can get better support care here - but also provide cases for our scientists to study so hopefully we will be better prepared if cases ever appear in the US.
      I saw all that Kay. I thought "What a huge waste of money." The best thing for the patient is to leave them with experienced medical professionals until the quarantine period is over. No special planes or body-bags needed.

      I'm not agreeing with "they can get better support care here."


      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      There's a much greater risk and it's getting very little press....

      Next week leaders of African countries coming to the US for a "summit" in D.C.

      I'm not much worried about the 47 leaders flying in from Africa - but I think we should be very worried about the contingents of support staff each will be bringing with him. This could be thousands of people from countries in Africa (including countries with ebola) mingling with US citizens in the capital.

      African leaders pull out of Obama summit to deal with Ebola outbreak - CBS News
      A reasonable observation, but then we are back to government dumb again.

      Joe Mobley
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      No - Joe - not dumb. They are being transported in a spacial plane - special trucks and the hospital is one of the four in the US set up for full quarantine. They can get better support care here - but also provide cases for our scientists to study so hopefully we will be better prepared if cases ever appear in the US.

      There's a much greater risk and it's getting very little press....

      Next week leaders of African countries coming to the US for a "summit" in D.C.

      I'm not much worried about the 47 leaders flying in from Africa - but I think we should be very worried about the contingents of support staff each will be bringing with him. This could be thousands of people from countries in Africa (including countries with ebola) mingling with US citizens in the capital.

      African leaders pull out of Obama summit to deal with Ebola outbreak - CBS News

      Kinda a drastic way to clean the criminals out of the white house, huh?
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      • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        Kinda a drastic way to clean the criminals out of the white house, huh?
        If so, hopefully it'll include some lobbyists.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Monsanto and some pharmacy have a drug they are making to fight ebola - my guess is that is why they are being flown in. Our gov would burn this whole country and everyone in it if Monsanto said that's what it wanted.
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    • Profile picture of the author Cali16
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Monsanto and some pharmacy have a drug they are making to fight ebola - my guess is that is why they are being flown in. Our gov would burn this whole country and everyone in it if Monsanto said that's what it wanted.
      The thought of Monsanto's involvement in anything is nothing short of frightening. One of the most corrupt, powerful, and evil companies in the country. Can't help but wonder if Monsanto's involvement in this is to fool people into thinking those who run the company are actually capable of good intentions.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    So ebola has been found to be at least a bit airborne - why does everyone keep insisting it's not? What they don't know is if it needs liquid or not.

    Derek - how are the people over there taking to the case of Ebola found in Hong Kong yesterday?
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      So ebola has been found to be at least a bit airborne - why does everyone keep insisting it's not? What they don't know is if it needs liquid or not.

      Derek - how are the people over there taking to the case of Ebola found in Hong Kong yesterday?
      Sal do you have any links to the airborne potentials of this? I've not seen anything but I've not searched either. I'd be interested to read it.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      So ebola has been found to be at least a bit airborne - why does everyone keep insisting it's not? What they don't know is if it needs liquid or not.

      Derek - how are the people over there taking to the case of Ebola found in Hong Kong yesterday?
      Yeah. Being airborne doesn't mean that much anyway. ALL it means is that it spreads quicker and easier. Nearly ALL diseases, and certainly ebola, can be spread through contact, and THAT is why people are concerned here. MORE contact and a closer proximity means an EXPONENTIALLY greater chance of contagion.

      They CLAIM that these people will always be isolated, but that is ABSOLUTE BULL!!!!!! The FACT is that they need people wearing special suits to move them into a special chamber, and then they have to make sure the chamber is clean, and the suits are clean, and then IDEALLY they would have to isolate the people that did all this and wait, but they certainly won't do THAT. If things visually look ok and there are no complaints, they will simply come to the US figuring it is "good enough". THEN, once over here, they would have to do the reverse! AGAIN, the people that come in contact with him should be isolated, but they will probably just go home to their families.

      Do I think the world is going to end? NOPE! Do I think we'll all die? NOPE! Do I think it will happen tomorrow? CERTAINLY not. But I still think people can get sick and, if they do, some can die, and this is STUPID!

      Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      So ebola has been found to be at least a bit airborne - why does everyone keep insisting it's not? What they don't know is if it needs liquid or not.

      Derek - how are the people over there taking to the case of Ebola found in Hong Kong yesterday?
      Sal, that case was a false alarm. Hong Kong does have facilities to deal with Ebola.
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    • Profile picture of the author Floyd Fisher
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      So ebola has been found to be at least a bit airborne - why does everyone keep insisting it's not? What they don't know is if it needs liquid or not.

      Derek - how are the people over there taking to the case of Ebola found in Hong Kong yesterday?
      Do you mean this woman, who tested negative according to this report?

      I think they are breathing a sigh of relief.
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  • Profile picture of the author Floyd Fisher
    Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

    Typical

    American

    Government

    Stupidity!

    So, let's bring it here to America. Brilliant!

    This may not be the dumbest decision made by a politician, but it's a contender.

    Joe Mobley

    Why is it dumb?

    How much do you really know about this virus, and how it's spread? Or are you simply scared witless because of what you heard on the TV?

    From what I understand, you have to come in contact with blood or urine of an infected human or animal....don't know about you, but it sounds kind of hard to contract so long as you practice common sense with it.

    And why not send those patients to the CDC in Atlanta? Would you rather leave them in the hands of third world medicine? Or would you rather give them the best possible shot of surviving?

    I think your fear is a little overblown, and who knows, the CDC might find a cure for it.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Floyd Fisher View Post

      Why is it dumb?
      Unnecessary risk!

      How much do you really know about this virus, and how it's spread? Or are you simply scared witless because of what you heard on the TV?
      HOW do you think it spreads in AFRICA, even after death?

      From what I understand, you have to come in contact with blood or urine of an infected human or animal....don't know about you, but it sounds kind of hard to contract so long as you practice common sense with it.
      Actually, you apparently don't. Even if you did, it is too easy.

      And why not send those patients to the CDC in Atlanta? Would you rather leave them in the hands of third world medicine? Or would you rather give them the best possible shot of surviving?
      And here I thought the WORLD was involved! The location is so important?

      I think your fear is a little overblown, and who knows, the CDC might find a cure for it.
      Don't hold your breath on a cure coming so quickly. And AGAIN, if you think THAT, why not leave them THERE?

      Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
      My observations are in your post.

      Originally Posted by Floyd Fisher View Post

      Why is it dumb?

      There are very few organizations on the planet that has the documented incompetence of the US Federal Government.

      How much do you really know about this virus, and how it's spread? Or are you simply scared witless because of what you heard on the TV?

      Not scared at all. My concern is based on recent history of the US Government, CDC, VA, IRS, etc.

      From what I understand, you have to come in contact with blood or urine of an infected human or animal...

      We understand differently, but only slightly.

      don't know about you, but it sounds kind of hard to contract so long as you practice common sense with it.

      Apparently the two people being transferred because of possible Ebola exposure missed something.

      And why not send those patients to the CDC in Atlanta?

      Herein lies the problem. I believe that there are many excellent, well trained, highly qualified individuals that work for the CDC. I believe that those people would do everything in their power to help the in-coming patients or you and I.

      But make no mistake! The individuals that call the shots at the CDC are Political Animals with 2 default objectives:

      #1) Make themselves look good.

      #2) Cover their own ass if #1 is in jeopardy.

      How's that VA thing working out?


      Would you rather leave them in the hands of third world medicine?

      They are in a third-world country with first-world medicines and staff. Additionally, they are (were) working with organizations that are more focused on results than politics. Unfortunately, that focus is reversed when they become patients of the Federal Government.

      Or would you rather give them the best possible shot of surviving?

      You and I just disagree on this point... and that's fine.

      I think your fear is a little overblown, and who knows, the CDC might find a cure for it.

      My concern is born out of the tragic results of incompetent, politically motivated Federal employees.
      Joe Mobley
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
    Not to be a fearmonger...as many of you know I studied ebloa and diseases many years ago in my "let's look at something other than business" college reading...but:

    Sheik Umar Khan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    This guy was the chief virologist in charge of containing the Sierra Leone ebola outbreak. He's dead. From the virus.

    If the chief virologist is dead from the virus, what the heck is going on over there? Interesting quote from him in this Washington Post article:

    Sierra Leone’s top Ebola doctor is dead from Ebola - The Washington Post

    "Even with the full protective clothing you put on, you are at risk."

    Looking at a few more versions of the article, I guess there is always the risk of holes in the personal protective equipment.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
      Jason,

      Interestingly, this applies to almost every area of life.

      Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post


      "Even with the full protective clothing you put on, you are at risk."
      Joe Mobley
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  • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
    You guys are not thinking like marketers. The powers that be also think, "What's in it for me" too.

    Never let a crisis go to waste.

    With an incubation period of up to 3 weeks, we will not get a grasp on what is going on today until 3 weeks from now.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I'm not overly worried about it. We have the containment abilities to handle it. What worries me is all of the 100% deadly viruses that have been bioteched by the military and are kept at a few bases around the US. 100%. Kewl.

    What I am worried about is some sociopath in our offices having ulterior motives.

    If you want something to really worry about - we've got some real deadly viruses going on that are not "contained":
    Q fever in Oregon
    Pneumonic Plague in Colorado
    Anthrax in S. Dakota
    Dengue fever in Florida
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  • Profile picture of the author LouiGeeinMD
    2 Americans infected with Ebola coming to Atlanta - CNN.com




    Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

    Typical

    American

    Government

    Stupidity!

    So, let's bring it here to America. Brilliant!

    This may not be the dumbest decision made by a politician, but it's a contender.

    Joe Mobley
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    They were about the last of the free press, Steve. People should realize that the press is just as corporate owned as any fascist state's has been. Why is that so hard for people to "get"? It was even made legal in the courts for them to outright lie to people, and now most channels have execs with spouses or siblings in the WH admin offices. Go figure. It's Monsanto - but news instead of poisoning.

    In actuality - if you want to know what's going on, you go to conspiracy sites to find out what they are talking about - then tone it down for the sensationalizing done on those sites. At least you will find the issues there. MSM doesn't mention anything until the public gets wind of it in numbers enough that they have to invent a spin for it.
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  • Profile picture of the author candoit2
    In Canada news anchors are rewarded with senate positions. What more needs to be said about the integrity and trustworthiness of the "news".
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    • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
      Originally Posted by AaronJones View Post

      In Canada news anchors are rewarded with senate positions. What more needs to be said about the integrity and trustworthiness of the "news".
      I hear you. Weirdly, Americans tell me with alarming frequency that they watch Canadian "news" to get a more accurate picture of what's going on in the world than what US news tells them.
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      • Profile picture of the author candoit2
        Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

        I hear you. Weirdly, Americans tell me with alarming frequency that they watch Canadian "news" to get a more accurate picture of what's going on in the world than what US news tells them.
        wn.com gives a broader view of the news with articles from all over. Not just one countries view of what's going on. Especially through the related articles, I often find some variation and things I don't see mentioned on our news. I find their in house writers to be over the top biased though.
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