When Did The WF Stop Being Gearslutz Quality? (AKA The Help Wags Thread)

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I know this thread isn't going to make a lot of friends and probably won't go over very well, but this needs to be said.

There was a time when you could go to Main Discussion and there would be some amazing threads chock full of great info by people like John Taylor, Frank Kern, Mike Filsaime and the names went on and on. You could come here and actually learn something.

The other day, I went to Gearslutz, just for the hell of it.

OMG, what a wealth of info. If you wanted to learn something about the latest software, hardware, synths, processors, whatever, it's there. In fact, there is so much amazing info at that site you could literally get lost forever.

And I'm not talking about digging 2 years into the archives. I'm talking about literally thousands of great threads just from the last month.

The WF used to be like this. Well, okay, maybe not quite that jam packed with info. But it was a lot better than what I'm seeing now.

Don't believe me? Go to the Main Discussion forum and please point out all the really informative and helpful threads. I'll wait.

So what happened?

Just curious.
  • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
    No idea but it was a whole lot better when I joined and that wasn't long ago. That's kind of why I came to the OT bar for a good chat and a laugh instead. I rarely go in the main forum at all any more. Sad really but there are some great people here, including you Waggers.
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    • Profile picture of the author AprilCT
      It does seem to me there was a lot more great information presented a good while ago. I don't stop by the main forum that often, but I would guess there are quite a lot of newer warriors who have joined.

      Many of the helpful people have probably left just due to changes in their own business needs. Nothing stays simple and it probably just takes more of their time better spent out of forums and taking care of business. Well, either that, or they are spending a whole lot more time taking vacations!
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        19. If it doesn’t say Neve, it is crap.
        20. If it doesn’t say API, it is crap.
        21. If it doesn’t say Manley, it is crap.
        22. In a “comparison post,” whatever YOU own is BETTER, regardless of whether you’ve ever heard of it or used it, or if your gear was even listed in the OP’s comparison.
        23. Any piece of equipment that is available at Guitar Center or American Musical is crap, except maybe a U87, but that is junk too unless someone from GS swallows it and sh*ts it out, a technique used to simulate 40 years of delicate aging.
        24. Any gear that is good must’ve been pulled out of a much larger object and modified to fit in a rack by the actual person that designed it.
        25. Trident is now crap.
        I got a kick out of the list above - that's from Gearslutz (in a roundabout way). Apparently everything is pretty much crap.

        You don't have to go to Gearslutz anymore, I have it all summed up in one post! « Audio Geek Zine

        The WF change is simple - we said years ago it was headed toward being a "newbie" forum - and that's what it is now. Sometime it's more than that - I call it "not-a-clue-bie"?

        Lots of new, inexperienced people from everywhere - a few big fish/small pond sellers - and a few serious sharks stopping by for lunch.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          The offline forum has some pretty advanced threads. Same as the Kindle Forum, and the Video Forum. Although there is a little joking, it's mostly serious business. The copyriting forum is pretty advanced, but I don't go there often.


          I never go to the main forum.

          and I'm in the off topic forum for laughs, and to share barbs with a few bright people.
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          • Profile picture of the author AprilCT
            Eventually, some of the newbies will figure out there has to be some gold in past threads and start reading them. Those who want everything done for them will find it just isn't going to happen.
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            • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
              Joe,
              This may be with intent by Freelancer
              I doubt that. It's a trend that's been going on for a few years in main discussion. It was largely started by creating all those sub-forums, where the more advanced discussions happen.

              I get the impression Freelancer wants to raise the level of conversation, but doesn't know how.

              The problem with main discussion is it's where the complete newbies who barely speak English go, and that's not an easy challenge to deal with. Frankly, the extended period of spamapalooza earlier this year didn't help. A lot of mid-range experienced folks dropped out because of that.


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              • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                I know this thread isn't going to make a lot of friends and probably won't go over very well, but this needs to be said.

                There was a time when you could go to Main Discussion and there would be some amazing threads chock full of great info by people like John Taylor, Frank Kern, Mike Filsaime and the names went on and on. You could come here and actually learn something.

                The other day, I went to Gearslutz, just for the hell of it.

                OMG, what a wealth of info. If you wanted to learn something about the latest software, hardware, synths, processors, whatever, it's there. In fact, there is so much amazing info at that site you could literally get lost forever.

                And I'm not talking about digging 2 years into the archives. I'm talking about literally thousands of great threads just from the last month.

                The WF used to be like this. Well, okay, maybe not quite that jam packed with info. But it was a lot better than what I'm seeing now.

                Don't believe me? Go to the Main Discussion forum and please point out all the really informative and helpful threads. I'll wait.

                So what happened?

                Just curious.
                Yes, l hate to say it, but there is some truth to what you say.

                The videos they raved on about, didn't really interest me, but a newbie would have gotten something from them, (they seemed to be targeted towards newbies).

                And the war room, similar thing! For newbies plenty of free graphics, and info,.

                But for someone like me that has been online for more than 6 years, and is a whiz with Photoshop, not much!


                Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                What happened is the influx of newbies that would ask for advice then lampoon the hell out of anyone who confronted them with any truth they didn't want to hear -- especially when it involved having to get off your duff and learn something, then do something after you learned how. Some people just got tired of the "why is it wrong for me to just steal my content or products I want" mentality of a lot of the people coming in, too. Some crap just gets old after awhile and when people are throwing barbs at you just for insisting on honesty, integrity, and education, those with the real abilities just say to heck with it and leave the slummers in the slums.
                Yep, another reason l lurk down here, l got sick and tired of helping one newbie after another, only to have most of them disappear of the face of the earth, or go on the attack!

                But l have to admit if l was just starting and someone with more experience, said, it will take hard work and probably years of brick wall headbutting to get something to work, l might do a runner as well.
                Well, l would at least thank him or her, then run off.

                But now after 6 years of effort, l am beginning to see the finish line!

                Yep, tell a newbie how long you have been online, and how you are almost there, and they will be gone for good!

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              • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
                Paul,

                Thanks. I do appreciate the input. I have to remember that there are bunches and bunches of things I don't know.

                I get the impression Freelancer wants to raise the level of conversation, but doesn't know how.
                This may be scarier than the idea that I mentioned above.

                Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                Joe,I doubt that. It's a trend that's been going on for a few years in main discussion. It was largely started by creating all those sub-forums, where the more advanced discussions happen.

                I get the impression Freelancer wants to raise the level of conversation, but doesn't know how.

                The problem with main discussion is it's where the complete newbies who barely speak English go, and that's not an easy challenge to deal with. Frankly, the extended period of spamapalooza earlier this year didn't help. A lot of mid-range experienced folks dropped out because of that.


                Paul
                Now... about that new avatar, hopefully not a pic of you being led off to a PA. pokey?

                Joe Mobley
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                • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                  Joe,

                  I don't know that it's scary. I had some ideas on the subject, but Allen sold the place as I was proposing them.

                  Not an easy problem to solve, without draconian measures regarding the not-so-fluent ESL crowd. We have traditionally been hesitant to delete posts based on fluency.

                  As far as the new avatar, here's the full-sized version...




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              • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
                Banned
                Zombie response team? I'd been wondering ...

                And now I'm wondering whether, when they say their aim is "to protect and sever", they actually mean "protect and serve" or maybe it isn't a typo at all, and they really do intend to protect and sever?!

                Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                I get the impression Freelancer wants to raise the level of conversation, but doesn't know how.
                Interested to hear that, thank you. That had been my guess, but pleased to learn that it's also yours. As you say, we lost a lot of "medium-range" members over the spam, spam, spam, egg, peas, fries and spam a few months ago.


                .
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                • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                  Alexa,
                  Zombie response team? I'd been wondering ...
                  Inside joke between me, myself, and I.

                  I found myself stopped behind that car at a light. Snapped the pic and followed the guy until he pulled into a plaza parking lot, to get permission to use it.

                  Dude gave me the full lowdown on the car. It was fun listening to someone that enthusiastic about a hobby. Right down to the improvements he'd made to an already impressive engine.


                  Paul
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                  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                    I'm not sure what the point of your post is
                    When humor is involved, you usually don't get it...the point is no matter how good a forum is....there are people who will complain about it.

                    This is now officially an international forum - there's no way to change that. There are good threads in several sub-forms. The difference in those sections is the lack of tolerance for "crap".

                    I see improvements by the new mods but I agree the weeks of massive spam hurt this forum. The months of poor search function did the same.

                    The main forum is more about people trying to establish their "expert status" on the WF and about others posting to get sigs shown...than about real help or info. That might change in time as new mods (who have improved rapidly) continue to get a handle on posts and posters.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                      Kay,
                      That might change in time as new mods (who have improved rapidly) continue to get a handle on posts and posters.
                      I agree. They're doing a very good job, given their experience and the new system. They are, as far as I've seen, very conscientious. They're still learning the nuances, but that takes much more time than they've had yet.

                      I'm rather impressed with them, personally.


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                    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                      When humor is involved, you usually don't get it...the point is no matter how good a forum is....there are people who will complain about it.

                      This is now officially an international forum - there's no way to change that. There are good threads in several sub-forms. The difference in those sections is the lack of tolerance for "crap".

                      I see improvements by the new mods but I agree the weeks of massive spam hurt this forum. The months of poor search function did the same.

                      The main forum is more about people trying to establish their "expert status" on the WF and about others posting to get sigs shown...than about real help or info. That might change in time as new mods (who have improved rapidly) continue to get a handle on posts and posters.
                      You're right. I have no sense of humor. I freely admit that. I also agree that there are bad apples in all forums.

                      But speaking as somebody who is really into music technology. Gearslutz is a wealth of information, much more so than this forum is, at least now. Maybe that will change. I don't know. But there is no denying that this isn't the place it used to be.

                      I also agree with your assessment of the Main forum as far as what takes place there, another reason I keep away from it. Since I'm no longer in the MMO niche, I have nothing to prove or fight for as far as credibility. Nor do I even care enough anymore to do so. All I want to do right now is get my business back on track and make some legitimate money.

                      What would be nice is if I could come here, actually ask some questions about my plan of attack (now that my product is finished and Sherice has written my sales letter) as far as marketing.

                      But who is here to come to for that anymore? Main Discussion? It's worthless. Which is so ironic because back in the days when you could actually get help there, I didn't need it. Now that I need it desperately, I can't get it.

                      I may not have a sense of humor, but that kind of irony is not lost on me.
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          • Profile picture of the author discrat
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            The offline forum has some pretty advanced threads. Same as the Kindle Forum, and the Video Forum. Although there is a little joking, it's mostly serious business. The copyriting forum is pretty advanced, but I don't go there often.


            I never go to the main forum.

            and I'm in the off topic forum for laughs, and to share barbs with a few bright people.
            Frankly, not sure how you do it.
            That is running a retail store selling vacuum cleaners and stuff.

            Do you run in the back of your store, do a Post about Inspector Clouseau and then run to the counter when a customer walks in and rings the bell

            I am being a little silly. But half serious too

            Sorry I sound like an ass. I can definitely be one. Not trying to make "sweeping" judgements here.

            But just checked out your site and just wondering how you keep such a presence here with all that vacuum cleaner business going on?
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by discrat View Post

              Frankly, not sure how you do it.
              That is running a retail store selling vacuum cleaners and stuff.

              Do you run in the back of your store, do a Post about Inspector Clouseau and then run to the counter when a customer walks in and rings the bell

              I am being a little silly. But half serious too

              Sorry I sound like an ass. I can definitely be one. Not trying to make "sweeping" judgements here.

              But just checked out your site and just wondering how you keep such a presence here with all that vacuum cleaner business going on?
              I'm not sure why you are asking, but it's a fair question. I work a full 8 hours a day at my retail store, but it isn't like a grocery store. Maybe 15-20 people come in, on a typical day. My wife handles most of that. When someone comes in looking at a new vacuum cleaner, I talk to them. I may invest an hour to an hour and a half a day, on the floor. I have a repair guy, and an IT guy that do almost all the busy work....and tasks that, frankly, they are better at.

              Most of the time, I'm in my office (at the store) writing a book, or working with a client, doing phone consulting. But I'm still at the computer. Maybe an hour a day filling online orders...for books, DVDs, and vacuum cleaner stuff. I have a couple dozen websites, that bring in business.

              And..to be honest, I may spend 30 minutes a day on the Forum. Usually less. It may look like more...but I type fast. And at home, I may (like now) pop on for 10 minutes to see what's cooking.

              I read selectively. Only the offline Forum, and the off topic forum. And only a few threads on each. I look like I'm here more than I really am.

              I type with only my left hand. So I can post while I'm eating lunch, making calls to customers, talking on the phone.

              I read very fast, and I type fast. That's really the secret. And this forum is really the only way I'm not doing something productive.. If I write for an hour, I get bored, and come here to trade barbs, or give advice on selling. This forum is my 5 minute break time.
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        • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post


          The WF change is simple - we said years ago it was headed toward being a "newbie" forum - and that's what it is now. Sometime it's more than that - I call it "not-a-clue-bie"?
          This may be with intent by Freelancer. It has been my observation that a large percentage of "newbie" IM'ers go through an initial phase of "shiny-object-syndrome." Unfortunately this can go on for years.

          However, this can be highly profitable for the Warrior Forum as "not-a-clue-bies" continue to buy WSO's, signup for email lists and try to get their AWeber code to work on a squeeze page. (Hey, that must be the way to do it because (almost) everybody else says so... right?)

          If this is the direction that Freelancer is trying to go, understand that the "old guard" will be considered more of a nuisance than an asset.

          * Also, understand that these are my... opinions and are subject to change.

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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          I got a kick out of the list above - that's from Gearslutz (in a roundabout way). Apparently everything is pretty much crap.

          You don't have to go to Gearslutz anymore, I have it all summed up in one post! « Audio Geek Zine

          The WF change is simple - we said years ago it was headed toward being a "newbie" forum - and that's what it is now. Sometime it's more than that - I call it "not-a-clue-bie"?

          Lots of new, inexperienced people from everywhere - a few big fish/small pond sellers - and a few serious sharks stopping by for lunch.
          I'm not sure what the point of your post is. If it's to claim Gearslutz is WF quality, sorry, you're being very unfair by posting a few of their posts. I could just as easily go through the hundreds of amazing threads and post countless posts of incredible info on all kinds of topics but I won't bother because you'll just have another negative comback.

          Bottom line: I go to Gearslutz and get incredible value from the info there. I go to the WF to BS here at OT because there is nothing else worthwhile to do.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    What happened is the influx of newbies that would ask for advice then lampoon the hell out of anyone who confronted them with any truth they didn't want to hear -- especially when it involved having to get off your duff and learn something, then do something after you learned how. Some people just got tired of the "why is it wrong for me to just steal my content or products I want" mentality of a lot of the people coming in, too. Some crap just gets old after awhile and when people are throwing barbs at you just for insisting on honesty, integrity, and education, those with the real abilities just say to heck with it and leave the slummers in the slums.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    I think it can be directly traced to the $7 trend and to this turning more into a marketplace than a forum. While I distinctly remember that trend and when it took off I don't remember right off who started it. Before then everything was $27 and up with many beginner type products starting off at $37, $47, or even $97.

    So all the sudden $7 was the new "standard" that found it way to the forum. And then it became a race to the bottom with people adding more and more things to get as much "thud" (Hi Paul) as they could get in their $7 product.

    What does this have to do with forum quality?

    I think many people all the sudden found it not worth it for $7.

    Around that time came the opposite effect - the $1000 JR traffic package. All the big guys then were trying to see who could break a million in 24 hours faster than John.

    So you had two extremes - $7 and $1000 and up.

    If you are selling something in the $1500 range, and that is your primary product, you may think twice about hanging around where the standard is $7 and with that comes complaints, scams (real and imagined), refunds, etc. because people feel they are getting cheated even at $7. People were (and are - look at the WSO forum) getting upset and crying foul when the $7 doesn't include word for word transcripts, live 1-1 coaching, etc.

    I think the marketplace mentality made some people a lot of money but the quality of the conversation went down. For many marketers the WF became the bad neighborhood that you want to stay out of.

    Just my opinion. If it doesn't make sense I blame it on the pain medicine.

    Mark
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Mark,

      That's certainly part of it. I suspect it's more the jackasses who think they have the right to demand unlimited coaching for $7 or they'll go on a crusade to blast your business than the lower price points.

      Putting much of a dent in that would require blocking approximately a quarter of the world's population, along with anyone logging in through proxies.

      It's not the price point. Things still sell here for 3 and 4 figures.


      Paul

      PS: When I was moderating, I stayed out of the reviews section unless there was a complaint. Now that I'm not, I looked through it recently. I am now firmly of the opinion that the whole section should be deleted.
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      • Profile picture of the author marketingva
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post


        PS: When I was moderating, I stayed out of the reviews section unless there was a complaint. Now that I'm not, I looked through it recently. I am now firmly of the opinion that the whole section should be deleted.
        That's the same impression I got when I visited there recently. Lots of arguing going on with very little substance.

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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    Maybe we should be asking what more WE could do to make the forum better instead of complaining/criticizing/comparing those who do try to help even now.

    Almost everyone has something useful they can contribute. Complaining, threatening to report posts, throwing hissy fits, etc. doesn't help anyone. No offense intended and not necessarily directed at anyone.

    What is directed at you is your constant, constant trashing the very people you need help from. In almost thread you say something like "I'm done with this junk. I'm tired of the lies (of the people in this forum). I'm doing something legitimate like sell music." And in the next breath you want someone to help you out with your marketing questions. Talk about irony.

    Mark
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      Maybe we should be asking what more WE could do to make the forum better instead of complaining/criticizing/comparing those who do try to help even now.

      Almost everyone has something useful they can contribute. Complaining, threatening to report posts, throwing hissy fits, etc. doesn't help anyone. No offense intended and not necessarily directed at anyone.

      What is directed at you is your constant, constant trashing the very people you need help from. In almost thread you say something like "I'm done with this junk. I'm tired of the lies (of the people in this forum). I'm doing something legitimate like sell music." And in the next breath you want someone to help you out with your marketing questions. Talk about irony.

      Mark
      Mark, you know what? You want to trash talk me? Fine. I'll take it. I'm not going to fight back.

      Show me the value in this forum. That's the point.

      What I can do to change it? Nothing really. I have zero marketing smarts anymore so I can't even help the new people. In fact, I'm probably in worse shape than they're in because I have too much baggage behind me. I already have opinions about certain tactics. I also know what would be a waste of time. A new person at least is looking at this from a pretty fresh perspective.

      What I need, I can't afford. I need a real pro to sit down with me and say "Okay, this is the game plan. This is what you need to do."

      But that's going to cost me 10 grand that I don't have. I know what a REAL coach costs and just can't afford it. I have to do this on my own.

      I have my product done. I have my sales page done. This is what is left on my to-do list.

      1) Get Clickbank approval for product

      2) Finish members area

      3) Test in order to get conversion stats

      4) Present stats to affiliates in order to try to attract them

      5) Contact authority sites to see if there is interest in promoting product

      6) Market product on my own.

      3 and 6 I have no clue because they both involve getting traffic. If I can't get enough traffic to get decent conversion stats then I can't get affiliates because I'll have nothing to show them. It's like a domino effect. If 3 topples, everything after it topples as well.

      That's my problem. I have no clue how to get eyeballs on my sales page. I used to do that through article marketing. That no longer works, at least not the way I was doing it and I know no other way. I already did the Adwords analysis and the keywords are 2 cents over break even IF I get a 2% conversion. I don't have the money to sink into a campaign in order to even test that. I just about had enough to pay Sherice for the sales page.

      I essentially sunk the last 10 grand I had into this venture. There is nothing left. I need to be able to test and complete these final stages before I can get affiliates with no out of pocket. That's what I'm up against.

      So yes, I need some super bright marketer to walk me through this step by step all the way through.

      And that's not going to happen unless somebody out of the goodness of their heart offers to do that.

      I expect nobody on this planet to do that for me. Especially not for me. I know what I am. I know how much I piss people off. And I know I've made very few friends here.

      But none of that has anything to do with the point of this thread. There was a time when I wouldn't need to open up a thread asking for help. There was a time when there was so much incredible information on marketing strategies here that I all had to do was a forum search and find them.

      Those days are gone. That's my point.

      So by all means, dump on me all you want. I don't even care anymore as right now I am just fighting for survival and your opinion of me doesn't mean squat to me. Yeah, when a person gets that desperate he really doesn't give a crap what anybody thinks of him anymore.

      So please, show me where I can get the answers to my problems here at the Warrior Forum without having to get on my hands and knees and asking the senior members to help me.

      Give me the existing links to the threads that will give me the answers I need because I've looked and I can't find them.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    Steven, I am not trashing you - I'm telling you the truth. You are so negative about everything, perhaps rightfully so because of your situation, that people wear themselves out trying to follow the drama, the exaggerations, the comparisons, the complaints, etc.

    I have recommended your site to a few people even though I don't know if your stuff is any good or not. So please don't think I'm trashing you. I'm trying to help you.

    I'll make it simple for you: You can attract a lot more flies (read marketing help and friends) with honey than with vinegar.

    Help out where you can. Be nice. Don't complain. Don't trash the very people you need help from. Get more humble - in the sense you are willing to listen instead of fight back at everything you don't agree with. Be positive.

    Mark
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      Steven, I am not trashing you - I'm telling you the truth. You are so negative about everything, perhaps rightfully so because of your situation, that people wear themselves out trying to follow the drama, the exaggerations, the comparisons, the complaints, etc.

      I have recommended your site to a few people even though I don't know if your stuff is any good or not. So please don't think I'm trashing you. I'm trying to help you.

      I'll make it simple for you: You can attract a lot more flies (read marketing help and friends) with honey than with vinegar.

      Help out where you can. Be nice. Don't complain. Don't trash the very people you need help from. Get more humble - in the sense you are willing to listen instead of fight back at everything you don't agree with. Be positive.

      Mark
      Okay, I'm going to give this an honest effort. I sincerely mean that. Can we start now?

      I outlined what I have to do above. Most of that stuff is just technical go by the numbers like creating the members area, getting Clickbank approval. I can do that. I've done that before. It has nothing to do with marketing (getting traffic) so I can handle that.

      After that, I'm clueless. After this page is up with the front end product approved and the members area ready to go, I just don't know what to do next.

      Here is my plan but I honestly don't know if it's any good.

      1) Contact every authority site into exercise. Since my product is directly related (exercising to music) I am hoping I can get them to promote it if I offer a high enough commission. It's a $29.95 product so I was hoping 70% commission will be good enough. More than that and there's hardly anything in it for myself. At 75% commission, I'm left with about $7.50 before Clickbank takes their fees. I have to also offer a percent of the members recurring because that's what's going to be attractive to affiliates more than the front end, getting monthly commissions for doing no additional work. At $10 a month, 70% leave me $3. 75% leaves me $2.50. I mean if I have to go 75% to get more affiliates, I guess the difference between 70% and 75%, when you're talking about so little money anyway, is meaningless. Anyway, that's my first line of attack and I know that's a long process with a lot of emails to a lot of sites.

      2) Get affiliates some other way. This is where I just don't know what to do. As I said, I don't know if I can properly test this on the cheap in order to get meaningful conversion stats. It may take months to get enough hits to produce meaningful results. On the other hand, Adwords isn't in my budget right now. This isn't a big niche and there are only about 50 relevant keywords with an average cost of about 23 cents per keyword. I can afford that IF I get 2% conversion on the front end. But even if I can swing that (I still have my Adwords account) my knowledge of Adwords is below zero. I wouldn't even know how to put together a campaign that has a chance of being profitable. Hell, I don't even know if I remember how to setup an Adwords campaign. So much has changed since the last time I used it. So that is a huge learning curve for me.

      That's it. Those are my 2 sticking points but they're major ones. Everything else I can do. If I just knew other methods of generating lots of traffic, like I used to be able to do, I wouldn't even worry about affiliates. But right now, I need them. That's a feeling I'm not used to.

      I'm listening, if you're willing to talk to me. Any suggestions at all, no matter how small, will be appreciated. Please understand, money is beyond tight. My wife and I are celebrating our 30th anniversary on the 25th of this month and I couldn't even afford to get her a really nice gift. I hate living like this.

      Okay, I'm done. Your turn, or anyone else who isn't fed up with me yet.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    Steven,

    I will share some thoughts but not tell you how to do it because #1. I believe even on your most humble day you are too headstrong for most people's tastes and #2. I believe you already know how to do it.

    Get rid of the MMO versus the rest of the legit world thinking. Imagine this: Amazon, Microsoft, IBM, and your local hardware store all send emails to their customers. They all do SEO. They all work on persuasion and conversion techniques. The techniques you used to sell MMO stuff can be used to sell anything else with just a little tweaking.

    Don't keep repeating that you don't know how to get traffic because of EZA/Google. I think you do but you are so paralyzed by your situation that you are not doing anything and unnecessarily dumbing yourself down to where you are hopeless and helpless.

    You really don't know how to market? Please! No one puts a few (or 2,000) articles somewhere and is deluged with money without marketing which you did before and you can do again. I just spent some time reading some of your stuff and - guess what?????? The great majority of it will work with whatever you are selling!!!!

    One article I read said that you sent out an email, for example, and would get immediate orders. Maybe some bought right off the EZA link but probably most of your sales came from email, right?

    Yet every time people have mentioned it here for your new project it's like can't, won't, don't know how, not ready for it, got to get this ready first, etc.

    I just looked and you still don't have an email signup form. I saw some of your objections/reasons for that but the fact is you need a form and the first email (even just the thanks for signing up email) and that's it to get started. Tell them that more is coming and work on it a little along.

    This list is as I said above probably how you made most of your money before. I can't think of a single legitimate reason to not have one starting today. It doesn't matter if anyone signs up or not right now but if you have it there at least you have a chance. Without a basic optin form you have no chance for anything email related.

    This email thing is a symptom of your current mindset where you've "forgotten" everything and you think you have to do everything different or more "legitimate" this time. There is NOTHING wrong with email. Everyone does it these days. it is legitimate.

    Another point is that you also did a lot of forum marketing and other things that had nothing to do with EZA. You say that was your end all and be all but I can't see how it was.

    So my suggestions are to:

    1. Stop thinking of people selling marketing techniques as less than legitimate but start to use those same techniques to sell whatever it is you are going to sell.

    2. Don't have a hopeless and helpless attitude. There have been a lot of people in the various threads you have started recently that say that YOU taught THEM something useful and that they enjoyed your stuff. Most of the techniques you wrote about STILL work but may need a little tweaking. You know how to market you just need to adjust your mindset more than your techniques. Hint: Read some of your articles and DO what you wrote!!!!

    3. Many people have suggested getting some money coming in now by selling something now (versus waiting to see if you can make it in an unknown market with lots of competition where you are a nobody).

    You have rebuffed every suggestion because you want to be credible. Is everything you ever wrote just a bald faced lie that you scammed up in your mind and you were trying to purposefully defraud and lead people astray? Yes or no?

    If yes then you are an idiot that doesn't deserve help and deserve all the bad things karma can throw down on you. If no then figure out a way to put together a credible, legitimate product using some of the things you learned and did before.

    You don't want to sell in the MMO crowd? Fine. Then get together some of your stuff about article writing or whatever and sell it to doctors, lawyers, or whoever that also need to know how to write articles for their marketing.

    You know the technical aspects of something? Then sell that versus the "dream."

    You despise long sales letters or overhyped language? Then fine – don't use it. Plenty of successful people don't.

    Point is that for the last several months you could have been doing something while you are working on your ultimate dream. But instead of getting something going now, you are waiting for the perfect, legitimate product to be ready and you have NO CLUE WHATSOEVER if anyone will buy it. You don't have the money to test it, you don't have a name in that market, etc. You do with some of the marketing people.

    I think that even with some of your mindset (rants, negativity, complaining, comparing, etc.) problems (that you could correct if you could build some confidence by getting SOMETHING going NOW and trying to be more positive) you'd be more likely to have some success with the marketing crowd right now than the music crowd.

    Note I'm not talking about "How to Make $14,000 by Noon Tomorrow" kind of crap. Do something you can live with but base it on the vast amount of resources you already have. Even if you throw away all the |hyped up junk|, you will still probably find you have hundreds or even thousands of pages of helpful stuff that can really do some good for someone else – NO MATTER what your current situation is.

    And no I'm not saying to abandon your music. I'm saying that sometimes people have to do things they don't really want to do now in order to be able to do what they want to do in the future.

    If you had a little money coming in you would build confidence again, you'd have the resources you need to get your music going the right way, etc.

    You say you have a passion for music and not marketing stuff. Fine. But from the sounds of it all your passion needs to be on survival, on getting out of the hole you are in, on building self-confidence, on securing your future, and on getting yourself in a position you can live your passion 24/7 and not have to worry about the money needed for this or that or the other.

    That's what I think you should do, knowing what I know about your situation. But that's just me.

    Mark

    PS I wrote 2 pages of (hopefully) helpful advice to someone in a MMO type forum and there wasn't a single income claim, testimonial, overhyped bit of language, pushy sales talk, etc.

    Edit: If there used to be a lot of good stuff on the WF, then that means there still is. Use the search and even Google to search if needed and you'll find your goldmine. Whatever you do though don't do what you say - come to the OT forum because there is nothing else to do. You ought to be very engaged in getting yourself out of your hole and building your future.
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    • Profile picture of the author Midnight Oil
      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

      What would be nice is if I could come here, actually ask some questions about my plan of attack (now that my product is finished and Sherice has written my sales letter) as far as marketing.
      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

      1) Get Clickbank approval for product
      Have you gotten Clickbank approval yet?

      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

      2) Finish members area
      Have you finished your member's area? If not, what's left?

      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

      3) Test in order to get conversion stats
      4) Present stats to affiliates in order to try to attract them
      Meh. Cart before the horse. Get things rolling for now. Take notes. Worry about advanced testing later.

      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

      5) Contact authority sites to see if there is interest in promoting product
      Are you building your list of contacts?
      Are you calling, emailing, visiting or all three?
      How many have you contacted so far?
      How many will you contact tomorrow?

      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

      6) Market product on my own.

      3 and 6 I have no clue because they both involve getting traffic.
      You've been here eight years or more. You have no clue how to get traffic?

      For starters, you have a couple of perfectly good links in your sig now, but you haven't been properly utilizing them. Even if they aren't for your affiliate program, they can help with your cash flow problem.

      You say you see no value in the Main Discussion Forum, but that's where you're missing out. You haven't posted there in almost two months, but have written quite a bit in OTF. A handful of folks will see your sig down here in the basement.

      Why aren't you providing value upstairs by answering questions for all these new folks coming in and gaining exposure for that sig instead of wasting so much time down here?

      And why in the world isn't your WSO link in your sig?

      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

      I have no clue how to get eyeballs on my sales page. I used to do that through article marketing.
      You said you killed your last list. Did you really, or is it still available? You can resurrect a dead list.

      Where's your sign up list on your RFM site?

      You write well and you're passionate about music. Why can't you start your own daily or weekly music newsletter? There's so much that you can write about and explore. And of course, link to your program and your RFM site, as well as other affiliate programs.

      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

      I know what I am. I know how much I piss people off.

      So by all means, dump on me all you want. I don't even care anymore as right now I am just fighting for survival and your opinion of me doesn't mean squat to me. Yeah, when a person gets that desperate he really doesn't give a crap what anybody thinks of him anymore.
      Is pissing people off, not giving a crap what people think and obsessing over your failures part of your marketing plan?
      Is it working for you?
      Is it making you any money?
      If not, don't you think it's time for a different tactic?

      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

      There was a time when I wouldn't need to open up a thread asking for help. There was a time when there was so much incredible information on marketing strategies here that I all had to do was a forum search and find them.

      Those days are gone.
      Again, why aren't you providing value to help others in order to help yourself?

      It amazes me how many talk about this increase in new folks as if they are complete idiots and somehow beneath them. Those are potential customers.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Originally Posted by Midnight Oil View Post

        Have you gotten Clickbank approval yet?


        Have you finished your member's area? If not, what's left?



        Meh. Cart before the horse. Get things rolling for now. Take notes. Worry about advanced testing later.


        Are you building your list of contacts?
        Are you calling, emailing, visiting or all three?
        How many have you contacted so far?
        How many will you contact tomorrow?


        You've been here eight years or more. You have no clue how to get traffic?

        For starters, you have a couple of perfectly good links in your sig now, but you haven't been properly utilizing them. Even if they aren't for your affiliate program, they can help with your cash flow problem.

        You say you see no value in the Main Discussion Forum, but that's where you're missing out. You haven't posted there in almost two months, but have written quite a bit in OTF. A handful of folks will see your sig down here in the basement.

        Why aren't you providing value upstairs by answering questions for all these new folks coming in and gaining exposure for that sig instead of wasting so much time down here?

        And why in the world isn't your WSO link in your sig?

        You said you killed your last list. Did you really, or is it still available? You can resurrect a dead list.

        Where's your sign up list on your RFM site?

        You write well and you're passionate about music. Why can't you start your own daily or weekly music newsletter? There's so much that you can write about and explore. And of course, link to your program and your RFM site, as well as other affiliate programs.


        Is pissing people off, not giving a crap what people think and obsessing over your failures part of your marketing plan?
        Is it working for you?
        Is it making you any money?
        If not, don't you think it's time for a different tactic?


        Again, why aren't you providing value to help others in order to help yourself?

        It amazes me how many folks talk about this increase in new folks as if they are complete idiots and somehow beneath them. Those are potential customers.
        This was actually a very well thought out response. Thank you. Honestly, I don't really know how to respond to it. But I will touch on just a few things.

        1) I can't move ahead with any Clickbank approval or anything beyond that, including contacting sites, because I need to finish the technical parts of the sales page. While the copy itself is written, there is a lot of technical work that needs to go into it that I'm not quite sure how to do yet.

        For example, one of the selling points of the product is that prospects will be able to hear samples of the tracks. I'm not sure how to go about putting samples on the page. Do I embed a player? Do I embed them from Soundcloud? However I do it, I don't know the technical how to behind it so I need to research that. Until I have a fully functioning sales page, I won't get Clickbank approval. That much I know after already having a half dozen products approved by them in the past.

        Bottom Line: The sales page has to be done before I can do anything else.

        2) The membership area is not set up yet. I still have 5 more tracks that I have to write and record before I can put that together. I haven't put together a member's area in years. Plus, I am using Optimize Press, something I have never used before. So there is a learning curve involved. I'm confident I can do it. I just need some time.

        3) You say not to worry about advanced testing, and I guess for now it's true that it's pointless without other things being finished, but make no mistake about it, I need to learn this because all I've ever done before is article directory marketing and that's dead. So unless I can efficiently test this sales page, everything else is moot. I won't get affiliates. At least not many. Maybe a few will promote without stats. But most likely those will be new people who probably won't sell much anyway.

        4) While we're on the subject of new people, I don't look down on them. In fact, these days, I consider myself one of them in many ways. I am really out of touch with the latest marketing methods, whatever they might be. So I am back to learning, which brings me to...

        5) How can I help others if I can't even help myself? Sure, I guess I still know some things about how to organize your time and how to write an autoresponder series, but if you take a look at the questions in Main Discussion, these are areas I am no longer qualified to participate in. Otherwise, believe me, I'd be there helping people. I love helping people. But one thing I won't do is give somebody old and outdated information that might be bad. That is why I pretty much stay out of Main Discussion.

        6) As for WSOs, I don't have any. I'm out of the MMO niche and have nothing to sell to anybody here. Sure, I could put together a royalty free package of music and sell that. But quite honestly, with all the work I have to do on this major project, I don't have the time to put into something that might make me $50 if that. Music is not a big draw at the WSO forum. Go there and take a look at the big threads. That's what people want. I can't offer that. I feel, therefore, it's better to put my time to more productive use such as finishing my sales page and finishing my members area so I can submit my sales page to Clickbank and then move on to recruiting affiliates. Again, I have nothing to show them yet so there is no point contacting them yet.

        7) In answer to your traffic question, no, I have no clue. All my traffic came from article marketing and running WSOs here. Article marketing is dead (the way I did it) and I have no WSOs to sell. As for my list, no, it's trashed. I deleted the few hundred people I had. There was no point keeping them when I had no more MMO products to sell them. The only list I have left is my health niche list but that has never been a big money maker. I think I've made maybe $500 from it in all the years I've had it. There is just no point in putting anymore time into it because they're mostly tire kickers.

        Bottom Line: I really don't know how to get traffic anymore. If I did, I do it.

        8) Finally, in response to your suggestions on what to do musically, I actually have a whole list of ideas that I am going to tackle one at a time.

        I would list them here but I don't want anybody to steal any of them. A few of them involved JVs with other marketers who market products in the MMO niche that lend themselves to working with music. That's all I'm going to say on the subject. I'm hoping to get an exclusive JV with at least one of these people. If I can do that much, that alone might solve all my problems.

        In short, I am not short on ideas.

        In fact, I will tell you one of them because I seriously doubt it's something anybody here would have any interest in doing.

        I am really into musical synthesizer programmer. I have all the hot software synths of today. A big market is musicians looking for patches for their synths. I am planning on programming sound banks for the top synths and selling them. It's a fairly big market and I see no reason why I can't make a few hundred a month just from that alone.

        And that's just one of the many ideas I have, all music related.

        As I said, my stumbling blocks are

        1) Testing in order to get affiliates

        2) How to drive traffic on my own

        Other than contacting the authority sites, I'm not even really sure how to get your typical Clickbank affiliate once the product is live. I do know I have to offer at least 75% commission but other than that, I have no clue what to do in order to get lots of affiliates. And I don't know how to test in order to get enough stats to attract affiliates.

        So there you have it. That's where I am.

        Thank you for taking the time to respond. I really do appreciate it.
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      • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
        Originally Posted by Midnight Oil View Post


        It amazes me how many talk about this increase in new folks as if they are complete idiots and somehow beneath them. Those are potential customers.
        you are absolutely right - on the one hand I understand how we can all grow tired of answering the same questions over and over again for the newcomers - but the patient person, the kind person, the smart person, will use those questions for his or her successful product launch.

        I still find quite a lot of value in the WF - certainly there are some changes I'm not crazy about - but there is still a lot of gold here - you just have to keep an open mind, and look for it.

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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by Karen Blundell View Post

          you are absolutely right - on the one hand I understand how we can all grow tired of answering the same questions over and over again for the newcomers - but the patient person, the kind person, the smart person, will use those questions for his or her successful product launch.

          I still find quite a lot of value in the WF - certainly there are some changes I'm not crazy about - but there is still a lot of gold here - you just have to keep an open mind, and look for it.

          You know what Karen? It's not even a question of being tired of answering the same questions. I'm not. But look at what's being asked at Main Discussion. These are questions I can't answer. Not anymore. I don't know how to make money quickly. I don't know what the best method for XYZ is anymore. I'm actually one of those people with my own questions. There used to be a time when I could find the answers without having to open up my own thread. Now, it's a different ball game over there.

          Every morning, first thing I do is go to Main Discussion to see if there is even ONE question I can answer to help somebody out. I never find anything.

          Here's the first 7 threads there now.

          WSO Without Using WarPay. Who's Got That Link?
          How to Find Top Contributors on Forums
          Can You Recommend Your Favorite FiveRR Article Writing Gigs?
          Am I allowed to do this with a Wordpress website?
          My first time hiring a freelancer was a disaster
          Move Wordpress site to a new domain
          Whats the biggest tip you can give new entreprenuers

          Okay, that last one I used to be able to answer with a lot of confidence. Now? I honestly don't know what to tell people other than to not get complacent. That things can change on a dime and tell them my riches to rags story. Other than that, I really don't have much to offer.

          And it's like this over there every single day. It's mostly new marketer questions that I myself can't answer because I am either out of touch with certain methods or it's technical stuff that I was never any good at.

          Believe me, I would love to go over there right now, as somebody who needs help, and open up a detailed thread about what I'm doing and what I need help with and ask for suggestions.

          Why don't I? Have you read the responses for some of these threads? The people who I know and trust from this forum, with few exceptions, don't even bother with that place anymore. You have to admit, there has been a big abandonment of Main Discussion from many of the old timers.

          Look, I love this forum. If I didn't, I wouldn't still come here. But I don't find the same kind of quality over at Main Discussion that I'm used to seeing from years ago. And I don't think I'm being unfair in my assessment.
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          • Profile picture of the author Midnight Oil
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            1) I can't move ahead with any Clickbank approval or anything beyond that, including contacting sites
            Are you building your list of contacts?

            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            For example, one of the selling points of the product is that prospects will be able to hear samples of the tracks. I'm not sure how to go about putting samples on the page.
            Can't you do it similar to how you've got the tracks posted on your site?

            It's been ages since I've embeded audio on a site, but when I did I just Googled "how to embed audio" or some such, tried a few codes and went with it.

            Anything here look like it would work for you?
            HTML Sounds / Audio

            Probably a question that could be asked upstairs also, if no one else down here has a suggestion.

            And for something just to get it going, you could always load it to YouTube and embed it on the site (and tweak the player size). I've done that in the past. It may even help generate a little traffic.

            The solution is probably no more than a one day challenge.

            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            2) The membership area is not set up yet. I still have 5 more tracks that I have to write and record before I can put that together. I haven't put together a member's area in years. Plus, I am using Optimize Press, something I have never used before.
            I think Optimize Press has an player embed option. If so, you're almost there.

            If you already have a handful of tracks ready, there's no reason not to dig in and get the member area set up and get Clickbank approval.
            It may not be perfect, but all you need is for it to be operational to get approval.

            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            all I've ever done before is article directory marketing and that's dead
            Free press release sites and Google News sites work. Doubtful they'll overload your server, but they can get you traffic.

            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            I am really out of touch with the latest marketing methods, whatever they might be. So I am back to learning
            Basics are basics.

            You know how to write. That puts you ahead of most.

            You know how to build a list and use it.

            You know how to email individuals.

            The only "latest marketing method" I use is Twitter and Facebook, and I rarely interact. I just post links.

            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            5) How can I help others if I can't even help myself? Sure, I guess I still know some things about how to organize your time and how to write an autoresponder series, but if you take a look at the questions in Main Discussion, these are areas I am no longer qualified to participate in.
            Perception doesn't always equal reality.

            From the first page of MD:
            • Whats the biggest tip you can give new entreprenuers
            • How to Find Top Contributors on Forums
            • What are some good marketing books?
            • im beginner how to start from this forum
            • Which one of the three launches do you prefer?
            • These are my expertise, recommendations?
            • Clickbank Question
            Really? Nothing to offer?

            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            6) As for WSOs, I don't have any.
            Isn't this still open?
            http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...-just-9-a.html

            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            Sure, I could put together a royalty free package of music and sell that. But quite honestly, with all the work I have to do on this major project, I don't have the time to put into something that might make me $50 if that.
            $20 WSO. $30 profit?

            If I had your talent, I would at least have a WSO or classified upstairs. It may be a little bit of money now, but over time it could amount to more. Plus, you get links and some traffic, not to mention possible subscribers.

            A lot of folks making marketing videos these days. Most of those need some kind of background music.

            Are you using Fiverr to sell tracks and build customers?

            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            The only list I have left is my health niche list but that has never been a big money maker. I think I've made maybe $500 from it in all the years I've had it. There is just no point in putting anymore time into it because they're mostly tire kickers.
            Isn't your new program an exercise/music thing?

            Your health niche may not have been responsive in the past, but they may be now.

            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            8) Finally, in response to your suggestions on what to do musically, I actually have a whole list of ideas that I am going to tackle one at a time.
            More for the road . . .

            You should pull select tracks that you already have and put them under a Business category. Add more as you can. Promote that.

            $1.99 seems awfully cheap. I've listened to a few tracks and you have a nice selection. I think you should raise the prices (and/or set up a separate site for just business themed music) and start making contact with actual marketing firms.

            Spend some time on PRNewswire and Business Wire, start building a list of marketing firms from press release boilerplates, check out their areas of expertise and contact them. Nothing wrong in sending a short, well written email introducing yourself and describing your business solutions with a link. If you don't think any of them would be interested in your "stock" music, I see stock images available from iStock in commercials all the time.

            Side note: You do sell your audio on iStock, right? Looks like most audio tracks go for around $49.
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            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
              Thanks again for the response. Will just touch on a couple of things.

              Originally Posted by Midnight Oil View Post

              Yes, I forgot all about it. Look at the date. It's been exactly a year. I still haven't come close to the 50 sold. That's how poorly it did. I guess I could bump it but it will probably end up being a loss or maybe break even. I'll try. I'll bump it and see what happens and report back. Right now $20 is a fortune for me but I'll give it a shot.


              Are you using Fiverr to sell tracks and build customers?
              I know nothing about Fiverr or how to use it. More learning curve. Also, I'm not doing a musical track for $5. You have any idea how many hours it takes to put together music? Sorry, that's not happening. I draw the line there.



              Spend some time on PRNewswire and Business Wire, start building a list of marketing firms from press release boilerplates, check out their areas of expertise and contact them. Nothing wrong in sending a short, well written email introducing yourself and describing your business solutions with a link. If you don't think any of them would be interested in your "stock" music, I see stock images available from iStock in commercials all the time.
              Don't know anything about PRNewswire or Business wire. I'm assuming they're press release sites. Know almost nothing about how to use them. More learning curve. As for iStock, I know a lot about those mega sites (have to, it's my business) and the only one who makes money from those sites is iStock. There is too much competition. The chances of any one person's work being seen is nil. But iStock doesn't care because they get paid regardless of whose music sells. Sorry, I was warned by the pros in this industry to stay away from those sites as they are a waste of time.
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          • Profile picture of the author Midnight Oil
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            Every morning, first thing I do is go to Main Discussion to see if there is even ONE question I can answer to help somebody out. I never find anything.

            Here's the first 7 threads there now.

            Whats the biggest tip you can give new entreprenuers

            Okay, that last one I used to be able to answer with a lot of confidence. Now? I honestly don't know what to tell people other than to not get complacent. That things can change on a dime and tell them my riches to rags story. Other than that, I really don't have much to offer.
            Good stuff here:
            http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ew-people.html

            and that's just a couple of months ago.

            From what I've seen over the past several months, the only person who has zero confidence in you is . . . you.
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            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
              Originally Posted by Midnight Oil View Post

              Good stuff here:
              http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ew-people.html

              and that's just a couple of months ago.

              From what I've seen over the past several months, the only person who has zero confidence in you is . . . you.
              I think my lack of confidence in myself is understandable given it's August 10th and I'm made less than $500 this year, and $200 of that was from preaching a sermon at church.

              Don't ask.
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              • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
                And that's exactly why just about everyone is saying to do something you know how to do now and do whatever it takes to make it happen the old way WHILE working on your dream.

                Take the PLR offer that was mentioned. Do any of those articles or ebooks still work? If not take them down especially if your preaching in church because it's dishonest. If they do, then why not go through the stuff you've written, tweak it, and use it yourself to sell music, PLR, lamps from Amazon, or whatever else there is.

                It's not all as hopeless as it seems. Outsiders can always see more bright than we can when we are in the bowels of our darkest times.

                First thing is to quit talking about how broke you are, how much you've lost, how you don't know anything. No one wants to buy anything from a broke idiot that doesn't know anything - including music.

                Got to find a way to work on your mindset. Until that changes, and until you can start seeing possibilities instead of problems nothing is going to change.

                Mark


                Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                I think my lack of confidence in myself is understandable given it's August 10th and I'm made less than $500 this year, and $200 of that was from preaching a sermon at church.

                Don't ask.
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                • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                  Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

                  And that's exactly why just about everyone is saying to do something you know how to do now and do whatever it takes to make it happen the old way WHILE working on your dream.

                  Take the PLR offer that was mentioned. Do any of those articles or ebooks still work? If not take them down especially if your preaching in church because it's dishonest. If they do, then why not go through the stuff you've written, tweak it, and use it yourself to sell music, PLR, lamps from Amazon, or whatever else there is.

                  It's not all as hopeless as it seems. Outsiders can always see more bright than we can when we are in the bowels of our darkest times.

                  First thing is to quit talking about how broke you are, how much you've lost, how you don't know anything. No one wants to buy anything from a broke idiot that doesn't know anything - including music.

                  Got to find a way to work on your mindset. Until that changes, and until you can start seeing possibilities instead of problems nothing is going to change.

                  Mark
                  I double checked the WSO. Everything there is still relevant. Some of it I will use for my new business. But a lot of it is non income generating material. At least not directly. The email marketing book (how to write an autoresponder) is only useful if you can get traffic to build your list in the first place. There's a lot of specialized stuff that doesn't really do a lot of good without "traffic." I've been saying that all along that my biggest problem is getting traffic. I know how to email market. I know how to write copy for the MMO niche. I know how to go about getting a JV IF I had something of value to offer one. I don't, yet.

                  Point is, there are things in that list of products that I will EVENTUALLY use, but none of them solve my biggest problems, how to get affiliates and traffic, which is why I'm not selling any of my traffic generation or article marketing books. You will notice that none of them are included in that list.

                  I do see possibilities. I am working on them. But you can't bury your head in the sand. You can't ignore problems or unproductive activities.

                  I was suggested to sell music at Fivver. That makes no sense. It's hours to put together even a simple track. I'm going to turn around and sell that for $5? I'd make more money working at Burger King for $7.50 an hour.

                  I'm sorry but there are certain things I will not do because they make no sense. Now if not wanting to do something that makes no sense translates to "I only look at problems" then fine. But there is a line in the sand that I won't cross.

                  Working hours for $5 is one of those lines.

                  Thank you for all your advice. I know what I have to do now. I am making a to-do list for tomorrow. I am going to bump my WSO in the morning and see if that brings me in something.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Midnight Oil
                    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                    I guess I could bump it but it will probably end up being a loss or maybe break even. I'll try. I'll bump it and see what happens and report back. Right now $20 is a fortune for me but I'll give it a shot.
                    You don't have to spend the money to bump it. Use your sig effectively upstairs. Like Mark said, you may want to tweak it first.

                    I understand money is tight, but I would personally spend $20 on a royalty music WSO before I would push the PLR.


                    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                    You have any idea how many hours it takes to put together music? Sorry, that's not happening. I draw the line there.
                    Push the ones that already exist. You already sell them for $1.99 on your site.

                    How much more worth it is to spend all of those hours to hope for a $1.99 sale on your site?

                    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                    Don't know anything about PRNewswire or Business wire. I'm assuming they're press release sites. Know almost nothing about how to use them. More learning curve.
                    These learning curves you keep mentioning aren't that huge.

                    Go to Press release distribution, EDGAR filing, XBRL, regulatory filings | Business Wire

                    Type "music" into the search box, for example.

                    Scroll through the releases. When you see something interesting, click on it.

                    For example:
                    Samsung Milk Music “Put Your Spin on It” Ad Features John Legend, Iggy Azalea, Lady Antebellum and More

                    Read the release. Look at the bottom for contact information.

                    The contact person usually has a phone number and email address.

                    The agencies website is at the end of the contact's email address.

                    Go to their site, research a little (not much on this particular one)

                    Click the contact link.

                    See where it says New Business Inquiries and gives you an email address?

                    You know how to write. You know how to email.

                    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                    As for iStock, I know a lot about those mega sites (have to, it's my business) and the only one who makes money from those sites is iStock. There is too much competition. The chances of any one person's work being seen is nil. But iStock doesn't care because they get paid regardless of whose music sells. Sorry, I was warned by the pros in this industry to stay away from those sites as they are a waste of time.
                    Have you checked it out yourself instead of simply relying on what your pro-friends have told you? iStock is obviously not the only one making money.

                    The argument that there's too much competition and a slim chance of being seen doesn't make sense.

                    Even if you make a small amount of money, that's more than making none. Those small amounts add up across your promotional activities.

                    With your existing tracks, how much harm can come from loading them up and seeing what happens?

                    I'm not telling you that you should do it. I am saying that you should investigate it yourself instead of relying on what others tell you. It's your paycheck, not theirs.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                      Originally Posted by Midnight Oil View Post

                      You don't have to spend the money to bump it. Use your sig effectively upstairs. Like Mark said, you may want to tweak it first.

                      I understand money is tight, but I would personally spend $20 on a royalty music WSO before I would push the PLR.



                      Push the ones that already exist. You already sell them for $1.99 on your site.

                      How much more worth it is to spend all of those hours to hope for a $1.99 sale on your site?


                      These learning curves you keep mentioning aren't that huge.

                      Go to Press release distribution, EDGAR filing, XBRL, regulatory filings | Business Wire

                      Type "music" into the search box, for example.

                      Scroll through the releases. When you see something interesting, click on it.

                      For example:
                      Samsung Milk Music “Put Your Spin on It” Ad Features John Legend, Iggy Azalea, Lady Antebellum and More

                      Read the release. Look at the bottom for contact information.

                      The contact person usually has a phone number and email address.

                      The agencies website is at the end of the contact's email address.

                      Go to their site, research a little (not much on this particular one)

                      Click the contact link.

                      See where it says New Business Inquiries and gives you an email address?

                      You know how to write. You know how to email.


                      Have you checked it out yourself instead of simply relying on what your pro-friends have told you? iStock is obviously not the only one making money.

                      The argument that there's too much competition and a slim chance of being seen doesn't make sense.

                      Even if you make a small amount of money, that's more than making none. Those small amounts add up across your promotional activities.

                      With your existing tracks, how much harm can come from loading them up and seeing what happens?

                      I'm not telling you that you should do it. I am saying that you should investigate it yourself instead of relying on what others tell you. It's your paycheck, not theirs.
                      I did investigate. I spoke to one of the top men in this field who has become a friend of mine. Unfortunately he says that I have to be closer to "big composers quality" before he will promote me. You know, John Williams type stuff. I'm good but I'm not the best. And I respect his need to protect his own reputation. He has explained to me in detail the problem with those sites. If you go there, you will notice something. You see the same featured tracks all the time out of the tens of thousands of tracks there.

                      Why do you think that is?

                      It's just like the banner ads here. These people pay mega bucks to be seen. I will be buried on page 400 and nobody will see any of my work. The time it will take to upload any significant number of tracks to even have a chance there is just not worth it when I have other things that give me a better chance of being more profitable that I can be working on instead.

                      If nothing else, I have learned the difference between activities that are a waste of time and activities that are calculable risks with at least a decent chance of a return on investment whether that investment be time, money or both.

                      As for launching a music WSO here instead of bumping the one I have, yeah, I guess I can give that a go. I saw another royalty free music WSO a while back. It didn't get a whole lot of traffic so I don't know how profitable it was, but I can give it a shot.

                      I can put together a package of 200 tracks and sell them for $27. That's certainly a great value offer.

                      That too will take a considerable amount of time to put together. 200 tracks is a lot of music. I need to give lots of value or it won't sell. That much I have learned from the WSO forum over the years. And now, the place is worse than ever. Buyers are looking for that $7 product to offer 3 months of free coaching too.

                      It is what it is.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
                        Steven,
                        The music business is so competitive - so while trying to market your music:
                        Frankly, I think you would make a ton of money doing something that @travelinguy suggested - write a course for the baby-boomers who want to produce music at home. That way you combine your love for music with your incredible gift of writing - win-win for everyone!

                        oh and don't launch it here - use Udemy or some other outlet - and post the link in your sig.

                        I use Audacity and I'm currently testing out FL Studio - I have tested out Reaper and Mixcraft, and a few other DAWs and I've been able to create some cool stuff, but I sure could learn more.

                        So bring on your course, Steven!
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                        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                          Originally Posted by Karen Blundell View Post

                          Steven, I listened to a lot of your music tracks -
                          if I was to be be completely honest with you, I think they should be a bit longer - and loop! Remember that people buying royalty-free music are using them primarily for videos or games - so they should be at least 30 to 90 seconds long, I think.

                          Frankly, I think you would make a ton of money doing something that @travelinguy suggested - write a course for the baby-boomers who want to produce music at home. That way you combine your love for music with your incredible gift of writing - win-win for everyone!

                          I use Audacity and I'm currently testing out FL Studio - I have tested out Reaper and Mixcraft, and a few other DAWs and I've been able to create some cool stuff, but I sure could learn more.

                          So bring on your course, Steven!
                          There are actually a number of uses for royalty free music and yes, looping is one of them. I have not yet put up an area (loops) catering to that market. I am primarily catering to the video market where somebody is looking for an intro or outro to their video. Maybe some theme to go in the middle. I'm targeting people who actually know something about arrangement but just don't have the chops or the time to create the music themselves.

                          And the tracks there are really more for getting people to hire me for custom work which is where I will make most of my money. I almost had 2 custom jobs but both people backed out at the last minute. One because the engineer said they could find music cheaper and the other just stopped communicating. Have no idea why.

                          Also, any of the shorter tracks that I've created can be looped through the use of software. Yes, the buyer would have to know how to do this, but it can be done. A lot of RFM sites don't supply loops. Others do. Right now, I don't. Maybe in the future that will change.

                          As for the course, it would be a video series and I guess I could do a little bit each month, but even at that pace that would essentially take up pretty much every minute of every day and would require me to put everything else on hold. I don't think I'm quite ready to make that commitment on an unknown. Not yet anyway.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
                            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                            There are actually a number of uses for royalty free music and yes, looping is one of them. I have not yet put up an area (loops) catering to that market. I am primarily catering to the video market where somebody is looking for an intro or outro to their video. Maybe some theme to go in the middle. I'm targeting people who actually know something about arrangement but just don't have the chops or the time to create the music themselves.

                            And the tracks there are really more for getting people to hire me for custom work which is where I will make most of my money. I almost had 2 custom jobs but both people backed out at the last minute. One because the engineer said they could find music cheaper and the other just stopped communicating. Have no idea why.

                            Also, any of the shorter tracks that I've created can be looped through the use of software. Yes, the buyer would have to know how to do this, but it can be done. A lot of RFM sites don't supply loops. Others do. Right now, I don't. Maybe in the future that will change.

                            As for the course, it would be a video series and I guess I could do a little bit each month, but even at that pace that would essentially take up pretty much every minute of every day and would require me to put everything else on hold. I don't think I'm quite ready to make that commitment on an unknown. Not yet anyway.
                            I don't think you know this, Steven, but I provide technical and customer support for an online music software vendor. One of the products is music samples. Don't for one minute think that I don't know the market - I do - quite well - the vendor I work with has sold millions in 4 years - and I have been working with him for 2 of those 4 years. So I think I am qualified to comment on your music website and maybe give you some suggestions because I see what works and what doesn't.

                            For the record, I think if you turned your site into a membership site and charged a monthly fee, you might do better. That is what my vendor has done and it is an upsell to his main product.

                            But you do what you want, Steven. I wish you luck with whatever you decide to do.

                            peace out.
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                            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                              Originally Posted by Karen Blundell View Post

                              I don't think you know this, Steven, but I provide technical and customer support for an online music software vendor. One of the products is music samples. Don't for one minute think that I don't know the market - I do - quite well - the vendor I work with has sold millions in 4 years - and I have been working with him for 2 of those 4 years. So I think I am qualified to comment on your music website and maybe give you some suggestions because I see what works and what doesn't.

                              For the record, I think if you turned your site into a membership site and charged a monthly fee, you might do better. That is what my vendor has done and it is an upsell to his main product.

                              But you do what you want, Steven. I wish you luck with whatever you decide to do.

                              peace out.
                              Actually, now that I have Optimize Member I was thinking of doing that very thing. It's obvious that the way the site is now it's not making any money so taking all that content and making it members only can't hurt.

                              Here's my question.

                              How do I get people to join in order to download the tracks without them getting to hear the tracks first? As about 90% of the tracks are between 30 and 60 seconds long, having "samples" is kind of pointless. I guess I could feature maybe 20 of the longer tracks on the main page and hope that is incentive enough. The membership would have to be really cheap to be a no brainer. Maybe something like $10 a month.

                              But yes, I have given that some thought.

                              And for the record, I never meant to imply that you didn't know the business. As I said, some sites use loops, others don't. One site, a personal friend of mine, which is one of the top sites online (100,000 visitors monthly) only has a very small section for loops. Most of his tracks are non looped. Most of his tracks, however, are also longer than mine too. So that might compensate for the non looped tracks.

                              The site is Incomptech. You can check it out if you like.
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              • Profile picture of the author SJL
                Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                I think my lack of confidence in myself is understandable given it's August 10th and I'm made less than $500 this year, and $200 of that was from preaching a sermon at church.

                Don't ask.
                I read thru this whole topic and I did some research on your RFM site and I can quarentee you could do better, without doing even a single new piece of content. Your RFM site currently has over 3000 pieces of music and assuming from you income, they are gathering dust, even with that low listing price.

                If you give my idea one of those 14 hour days. I would be seriously surprise if you wouldn't make atleast $1000 by the end of this year, basicly handsfree. This is only possible because of that huge catalog of content.
                ..and there's always a pssibility to put in more, than that one day.

                So what am I talking about? Get yourself an AudioJungle author account (audiojungle.net/make_money/become_an_author) and use that one day I was talking about to uploading your music to the service.

                Avarage sale price for music is over $10/each and even 8 second clips go for $6 and up. As an non-exclusive author you make 33% of that. (can't be exclusive since you have your own store.)
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                • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                  Originally Posted by SJL View Post

                  I read thru this whole topic and I did some research on your RFM site and I can quarentee you could do better, without doing even a single new piece of content. Your RFM site currently has over 3000 pieces of music and assuming from you income, they are gathering dust, even with that low listing price.

                  If you give my idea one of those 14 hour days. I would be seriously surprise if you wouldn't make atleast $1000 by the end of this year, basicly handsfree. This is only possible because of that huge catalog of content.
                  ..and there's always a pssibility to put in more, than that one day.

                  So what am I talking about? Get yourself an AudioJungle author account (audiojungle.net/make_money/become_an_author) and use that one day I was talking about to uploading your music to the service.

                  Avarage sale price for music is over $10/each and even 8 second clips go for $6 and up. As an non-exclusive author you make 33% of that. (can't be exclusive since you have your own store.)
                  How many tracks do you suggest I upload?
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          • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            You know what Karen? It's not even a question of being tired of answering the same questions. I'm not. But look at what's being asked at Main Discussion. These are questions I can't answer. Not anymore. I don't know how to make money quickly. I don't know what the best method for XYZ is anymore. I'm actually one of those people with my own questions. There used to be a time when I could find the answers without having to open up my own thread. Now, it's a different ball game over there.

            Every morning, first thing I do is go to Main Discussion to see if there is even ONE question I can answer to help somebody out. I never find anything.

            Here's the first 7 threads there now.

            WSO Without Using WarPay. Who's Got That Link?
            How to Find Top Contributors on Forums
            Can You Recommend Your Favorite FiveRR Article Writing Gigs?
            Am I allowed to do this with a Wordpress website?
            My first time hiring a freelancer was a disaster
            Move Wordpress site to a new domain
            Whats the biggest tip you can give new entreprenuers

            Okay, that last one I used to be able to answer with a lot of confidence. Now? I honestly don't know what to tell people other than to not get complacent. That things can change on a dime and tell them my riches to rags story. Other than that, I really don't have much to offer.

            And it's like this over there every single day. It's mostly new marketer questions that I myself can't answer because I am either out of touch with certain methods or it's technical stuff that I was never any good at.

            Believe me, I would love to go over there right now, as somebody who needs help, and open up a detailed thread about what I'm doing and what I need help with and ask for suggestions.

            Why don't I? Have you read the responses for some of these threads? The people who I know and trust from this forum, with few exceptions, don't even bother with that place anymore. You have to admit, there has been a big abandonment of Main Discussion from many of the old timers.

            Look, I love this forum. If I didn't, I wouldn't still come here. But I don't find the same kind of quality over at Main Discussion that I'm used to seeing from years ago. And I don't think I'm being unfair in my assessment.
            Yes, I've seen some of the responses - some of the stuff is quite entertaining, actually. But I don't think it's all bad.

            What you focus on becomes your reality, Steven. I think if you look for the gold with an open and positive mind, you will find it. And it could potentially inspire you to create a product that is needed by these newcomers. You can write - and write well. That ability of yours, as others have mentioned, has never changed.

            anyway, I think you can quickly get up to current marketing speed. Stop under-estimating yourself - you have a lot to offer! Good luck - it looks like you have the help you need if you want it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Midnight Oil
      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      Steven,

      I will share some thoughts
      Goldmine.
      .
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Originally Posted by Midnight Oil View Post

        Goldmine.
        .
        I agree. That was an excellent post and something everybody who is struggling should read.

        Again, thank you for your help too.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      Steven,

      [COLOR=black][FONT=Helvetica]I will share some thoughts

      ....

      Edit: If there used to be a lot of good stuff on the WF, then that means there still is. Use the search and even Google to search if needed and you'll find your goldmine. Whatever you do though don't do what you say - come to the OT forum because there is nothing else to do. You ought to be very engaged in getting yourself out of your hole and building your future.
      Mark, thank you so much. Believe it or not, I understand what you're saying. And you're probably right.

      Here is what taking your advice means for me in the real world as far as what would therefore need to be done.

      Without completely abandoning my music project, I would probably have to split my day in half. Mornings working on the music side and afternoons working on the MMO side in some capacity. I do have some products that I can probably sell in a fire sale that might make me a few hundred dollars, which would certainly help. It would mean putting a bit of work into updating things, putting together copy, etc. That's going to take time.

      Effectively, what this does is it doubles the amount of time it will take me to finish the music project. So if my projected completion date was end of September, now we're looking at end of October. The upside is I have some money coming in.

      I do want to be clear on one thing. I do believe in everything I used to do. As you yourself pointed out, people have thanked me for helping them. In fact, in email conversation with my copywriter, I think she mentioned that I had an influence on her. I don't remember her exact words. It's just that what I used to do stopped working. Where I made my mistake was in not trying to learn something new. I just threw my arms up in the air and gave up. That was my biggest mistake. I probably should have kept at it.

      However, I'm not sorry. I love music. I always have. I think I'll work harder at this because my heart is in it. My heart just isn't into selling "how to make money" stuff anymore.

      Yeah, I guess I could still teach people how to write. I guess I could get gigs as a guest blogger. Sherice says the makes $300 per article. That's not chump change. But again, I don't know how to get into that business, so it's something I would have to learn. That's more time taken away from my main goal.

      Maybe this is wrong thinking today, but I was taught that you decide what it is you want to do and you do it, putting aside everything else. That's what I actually did when I initially built my first business. I worked 14 hours a day (everyone said I was nuts) and did nothing else. It paid off, short term anyway (8 out of my 11 years online)

      So it's hard for me to change that mindset. To take my music and now only do it half a day feels wrong. But I respect your opinion and I said I was going to listen to you if you offered to help me. So I'm going to look through my MMO products and see if there is something still relevant that I can sell here as a WSO in a fire sale. I'm sure I'll find something. How well it will do I won't know unless I try.

      And I'm going to. So thank you for taking this time to respond to me.

      Whether you believe it or not, I am going to try to change my negative ways.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    Steven you keep saying that article marketing is dead. That's not what Alexa, John McCabe, and others say. I know their technique is different but it's not a dead and gone situation. It's tweaking what you used to do and did quite successfully.

    So why not tweak your previous methods to fit what is working now and take advantage of the talent you have for writing?

    Mark
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      Steven you keep saying that article marketing is dead. That's not what Alexa, John McCabe, and others say. I know their technique is different but it's not a dead and gone situation. It's tweaking what you used to do and did quite successfully.

      So why not tweak your previous methods to fit what is working now and take advantage of the talent you have for writing?

      Mark
      I responded to your other post above. On this matter, I'm going to have to get together with Alexa and pick her brain on that, unless there's actually a thread that she put together that explains what article marketing methods actually do work today.

      I have already written over 100 articles for my music site in a very short time. So I have no problem writing. I just don't know how to get traffic to these articles anymore. That's what I have to learn.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
    If your idea of, 'article marketing,' is submitting content to suppositories like EZA and hoping for a few clicks to your website, those days are long gone.

    Having your content republished on other peoples properties (syndication) has, and never will die.

    -Chris
    .
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Chris Worner View Post

      If your idea of, 'article marketing,' is submitting content to suppositories like EZA and hoping for a few clicks to your website, those days are long gone.

      Having your content republished on other peoples properties (syndication) has, and never will die.

      -Chris
      .
      I understand that. What I don't know how to do is actually get these people to publish my content, not that it matters at the moment because all my old articles links have all been taken down. So I'm starting all over in the music niche in general and various sub niches in specific.

      As I said, I need to get together with Alexa and pick her brain. Either that or find a recent thread that she's put together that explains the process. Right now, I don't even know where to start.
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      • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        I understand that. What I don't know how to do is actually get these people to publish my content, not that it matters at the moment because all my old articles links have all been taken down. So I'm starting all over in the music niche in general and various sub niches in specific.

        As I said, I need to get together with Alexa and pick her brain. Either that or find a recent thread that she's put together that explains the process. Right now, I don't even know where to start.
        Steve, do you really need Alexa to point out to you that business is a relationships game? Finding syndication partners is no different. You build relationships with those whose properties you wish to have your content republished on. This takes time.

        You could start off building a blog detailing your daily trials and tribulations regarding composing music, things you learn etc. At the same time, you find other blogs and communities related to what you are doing and you participate in those communities and build up a reputation. (Preferably a good one lol) Over time as you become a more recognized face, you make contact with the blog owner, cajole them etc. (Must be sincere) and offer links to valuable resources the readers of the blogs may find of interest.

        Even offer to create to create some unique content for the blog with a link back to your own.

        Though make sure that the blog/ezine etc. your hoping to get republished on have large readerships otherwise it simply won't be worth your time to do so.

        Play your cards right and finding people to republish your content won't be much of an issue, you may even find that they approach you asking if they can republish your content, do some collaborative work etc.

        Also, don't forget about offline publications.

        -Chris
        Signature

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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by Chris Worner View Post

          This takes time.
          Arguably the most important thing in your response. Yes, that method takes time. It isn't like opening up an Adwords account and getting instant traffic. Now we're talking about building a rep like I did here at the WF. That took me months. And to make that big a splash so relatively quickly, I had to make 50 something posts MY FIRST DAY.

          I caused quite a ruckus when I burst upon the scene here. I don't think you were here at the time. I'm lucky I wasn't booted out of the forum that day. But my posts were not spam. They were informative, and yes at times controversial. But they were novels. And I got noticed fast.

          I'm not sure I could, not would I want to, try to pull something like that off somewhere else. So yes, this time around, wherever I go, it's going to be a slow "getting to know you kind of thing."

          In the meantime, I need money now. So that's a "down the road" tactic. Yes, I have to start sometime and in fact, I already have. I have 16 followers at Soundcloud. But I understand that this isn't a quick fix to my problem.

          However, putting out a product that, if I can get lots of affiliates to promote, CAN be a quick fix. My very first product ever sold 200 copies a month right out of the gate. Yeah, I got lucky. A super affiliate was doing 100 copies a month by himself. My total Clickbank gravity was never higher than like 20. But that's okay, I'll take a little bit of luck right now. I just need to get one major site to believe in this product and promote it. And if I have to contact 1,000 sites to make that happen, I will.

          So yeah, all that networking stuff is going to happen. But it can't be my main focus right now. I have to put my time into the activities that are going to give me the best chance of making an income as soon as possible. That's probably finishing up this product launch and digging through my old products and running a fire sale WSO. So to that end, as much as I don't want to do this, I'm going to split my time between the music and the fire sale.

          That's my immediate plan.

          Everything else is down the road.
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    The timing is amazing. Here's what I mean. A few weeks ago my nephew posted a song he wrote on Facebook. I checked it out and it was pretty good. Not exactly what I'd listen to (hip hop) but still, for an 18 year old kid I was impressed.

    I got to thinking and wondering how he got such a professional sound. You know, just the right blend of a bunch of instruments. Thinking back to when you, Steve, decided to follow your passion I wondered how you did it as well. I guess I knew there was software for it but that's all I knew.

    Back in the spring I decided I'd produce some video book trailers for my Kindle fiction titles. One thing led to another and I've joyfully spent the summer immersed in learning video production. The learning curve can be as wild or tame as you want it to be. I ended up with a huge pile of new Adobe video editing software along with Camtasia and memberships to sites that sell royalty free clips. Bear with me.

    So along comes my nephew with his music. Well, I've been writing music since I was 14 and would love to be able to put it all together real professional like. But I don't know squat about workstations, keyboards, synthesizers or any of the software. My nephew says FL Studio is popular and lots of kids his age use it. Great.

    Here's the punchline. What I wish I could find is a well written course or tutorial that was actually designed for a baby boomer looking to make his home grown music sound as slick as it possibly can. I've taken numerous online courses to do the video stuff but haven't found anything in the way of a decent workstation keyboard/synthesizer course. Something that would take me from ground zero and get me up to speed. I realize it isn't all that hard but it's hard to know where to start when you don't freakin' know where to start.

    Sounds like something you have down pat, Steve. Now you've gotta ask yourself, is there enough of a market with guys like me and others to bother putting together a course? Since there isn't anything readily available I'll likely schlepp over to Youtube and try and make sense from various videos on homegrown music production. But it sure would be nice to have a cohesive guide to follow that would get a guy up to speed with a reasonable period. I'm not even sure what a reasonable period would be, though I do realize there are many levels of proficiency. Maybe you dat guy?

    There could be a very healthy market for this type of instruction. Aim it right at the baby boomer that was once in a band (or wished he'd been) but it never went anywhere. Now as we approach the twilight we can assemble some of the tracks that have been playing in our heads since we first heard Eric Burdon sing The House Of The Rising Sun.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

      The timing is amazing. Here's what I mean. A few weeks ago my nephew posted a song he wrote on Facebook. I checked it out and it was pretty good. Not exactly what I'd listen to (hip hop) but still, for an 18 year old kid I was impressed.

      I got to thinking and wondering how he got such a professional sound. You know, just the right blend of a bunch of instruments. Thinking back to when you, Steve, decided to follow your passion I wondered how you did it as well. I guess I knew there was software for it but that's all I knew.

      Back in the spring I decided I'd produce some video book trailers for my Kindle fiction titles. One thing led to another and I've joyfully spent the summer immersed in learning video production. The learning curve can be as wild or tame as you want it to be. I ended up with a huge pile of new Adobe video editing software along with Camtasia and memberships to sites that sell royalty free clips. Bear with me.

      So along comes my nephew with his music. Well, I've been writing music since I was 14 and would love to be able to put it all together real professional like. But I don't know squat about workstations, keyboards, synthesizers or any of the software. My nephew says FL Studio is popular and lots of kids his age use it. Great.

      Here's the punchline. What I wish I could find is a well written course or tutorial that was actually designed for a baby boomer looking to make his home grown music sound as slick as it possibly can. I've taken numerous online courses to do the video stuff but haven't found anything in the way of a decent workstation keyboard/synthesizer course. Something that would take me from ground zero and get me up to speed. I realize it isn't all that hard but it's hard to know where to start when you don't freakin' know where to start.

      Sounds like something you have down pat, Steve. Now you've gotta ask yourself, is there enough of a market with guys like me and others to bother putting together a course? Since there isn't anything readily available I'll likely schlepp over to Youtube and try and make sense from various videos on homegrown music production. But it sure would be nice to have a cohesive guide to follow that would get a guy up to speed with a reasonable period. I'm not even sure what a reasonable period would be, though I do realize there are many levels of proficiency. Maybe you dat guy?

      There could be a very healthy market for this type of instruction. Aim it right at the baby boomer that was once in a band (or wished he'd been) but it never went anywhere. Now as we approach the twilight we can assemble some of the tracks that have been playing in our heads since we first heard Eric Burdon sing The House Of The Rising Sun.
      This is definitely doable. And I could absolutely do it. No question.

      The amount of info involved (you really can't imagine) would take a good 1-2 years to put together a truly comprehensive course that would turn you into a music making machine.

      The software end of it alone is mind boggling. Then there is learning about mixing and effects processing and...

      I'll stop there.

      Yeah, I could do it. Maybe when I retire I'll tackle it just to give me something to do. But right now I can't wait 2 years to earn an income from what would turn into one amazing, probably million dollar product.
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      • Profile picture of the author Midnight Oil
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        If you go there, you will notice something. You see the same featured tracks all the time out of the tens of thousands of tracks there.

        Why do you think that is?
        I don't.

        As someone who uses iStock frequently, as in almost daily, I have to say that's incorrect.

        Featured artists, collections, etc., rotate regularly. Artist of the Month, Audio of the Week, Free Track of the Month, etc.

        More importantly, people search for what they want for specific projects. If you type in a search term in the audio search, say "business" or "motivational" for example, it brings up a list. From there you have three selections: Best Match, Newest, Most Popular. From there you can narrow your search by price range, tempo, key, etc.

        It's not at all like the banner ads here.

        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        If nothing else, I have learned the difference between activities that are a waste of time and activities that are calculable risks with at least a decent chance of a return on investment whether that investment be time, money or both.
        Not trying to be an ass, Steve. I promise.

        But you've made $500 this year.

        You've invested 10k in a biz op where you're hoping to recruit and pay affiliates 70-75% on a $29 sale, and it doesn't seem like you have any support to get it operational and you're struggling with the technicalities and marketing.

        You have an existing catalog that you can upload while you're working on the above, with the potential to make up to 45% on a $49 sale on iStock or $4 per sale on Fiverr . . . a catalog that you can also use for your WSO instead of creating more work for yourself.

        It's kind of a no-brainer not to at least give it a shot. Multiple streams of income and all.

        Anyway, just to move forward, you have to get the site operational and get Clickbank approval. Will you accomplish that this week?
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      • Profile picture of the author LynnM
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        This is definitely doable. And I could absolutely do it. No question.

        The amount of info involved (you really can't imagine) would take a good 1-2 years to put together a truly comprehensive course that would turn you into a music making machine.
        Just a thought, but couldn't it be done as a monthly membership thing? Then you could work on it as you go along, while at the same time having some income from members.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          How did this thread become about Steven?
          It was about him to begin with - he was unhappy with the quality of the main section here because HE had questions to ask and didn't think anyone was qualified to answer HIS questions.

          I'm not sure what the point of 14 hr days is but here's one thing to think about.

          I would bet you've written about 5000 words in THIS THREAD

          - that could have been a report about using music tracks to sell as a WSO
          - that could have been a good start on an email series.

          I felt like I was the hottest thing since Angelina Joli
          In your mind maybe. You got a lot of attention because you demanded it - you said you were successful so newbies followed you. You insisted people didn't like you but that wasn't true then and it isn't true now.

          What you need now is to stick with one thing to complete it. You wrote all those tracks for your site - then you started writing for exercise "beats" - now you are talking about something else. Finish something and get it on the market.

          This place is a time suck and it's not productive. I will be back tomorrow or later tonight if I have time.
          Don't strain yourself. I'm sure we'll see you when you have something to brag about or cry about....really?
          Signature
          Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.

          I wish offended people would react like fainting goats and quietly tip over.
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          • Profile picture of the author Tom B
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            It was about him to begin with - he was unhappy with the quality of the main section here because HE had questions to ask and didn't think anyone was qualified to answer HIS questions.
            I didn't read that much into the OP. Maybe you know something I'm missing. Anyway, he has a point, but I don't think it's a matter of having qualified people answering questions. I say it's more about the questions being asked.

            Steven is too stubborn. I learned to just answer his questions and not offer any additional help since it normally turns into a slugfest.

            Finish something and get it on the market.
            Yep, that bit me in the ass myself when one of my projects took way too long.

            Working on product creation is great and all. You won't get paid until you actually sell it, though. I would get something out there that you can spend time every day marketing and then spend the rest of the day doing more tracks or whatever is on the to do list.

            Working 14 hour days could actually hurt you more than help if you don't do the right things.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    One of the themes that I keep seeing is the time factor. X will take too long to accomplish. Y has too long of a learning curve. You won't do Z for $10 if it takes 2 hours to do, etc.

    Yet you published that PLR ad/WSO more than a year ago.

    The time is passing by whether you like it to or not.

    You are betting the farm on a $29 product in an unknown field that is still months away from completion sounds like.

    Something doesn't add up here.

    I mean after a year you have to have something you can sell today or this week after all this work, right?

    If I recall correctly, you mentioned before you needed X number of tracks before you could sell anything. I don't believe that. That's like saying your ebook has to be 247 pages or no one will buy it. That's simply not true. People buy 2 page checklists or 7 page short reports every day (while you would still be working on your 247 page masterpiece).

    Figure out what you can get going now. But in that process you have to have some faith and confidence about it. If you don't believe that your PLR or your articles or your stuff will make any money and no one will be interested, guess what - you are right. If you go forward with confidence, positive thinking, positive action, smart choices, etc. you may have a chance. "Buy this even though I'm broke and hate MMO and don't have any confidence and I'm not up on all the latest stuff and nobody likes me" won't get you very far.

    Mark

    Edit: For example, you don't need a full blown multimedia, hundreds of pages course to have something to sell to Traveling Guy or me or other music newbies and help us understand how to do some basic stuff. You don't have to wait until your rich or retired to have time to get something together that would help people. That's a mindset issue.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tom B
      Banned
      How did this thread become about Steven? I say let him do what he wants.

      Anyway, Steven, part of why you don't see as much value is because you're not really interested in the topics any longer. Not like the stuff being talked about on the Gearslutz forum.

      But, the main discussion has gone down hill in a big way. The quick money wso's brings about the wrong people, imo.
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  • Profile picture of the author TimothyW
    I guess this has turned out to be Steven's thread.

    I read 18% of it, I guess. I feel compelled to say this about this thread (hopefully it's helpful)...
    When I saw Steven's name up here, I remembered the name from maybe 2 or 3 years ago.
    My basic impression of his methods (he was selling/describing) was, "this guy is making this all TOO HARD for some reason."

    Now, please, I'm fully admitting here that I am more of a lurker, than a doer, so I (too?) am totally guilty of paralysis of analysis -- and I am NO expert on any IMing topic!

    But, I just wanna say here that Steven struck me as the kind of person who more or less REVELED in the complexity and (especially) DIFFICULTY in his methods. I got the distinct impression he subscribed to the "BAD TASTING MEDICINE" syndrome. It is impossible for a medicine to be effective, unless it tastes HORRIBLE. And, further, the effectiveness of a medicine is directly proportional to how TERRIBLE it tastes.

    This, I believe, is an offshoot of DEPRESSION ERA thinking. If something is easy, it (by definition) cannot be effective. And, if something is effective, (by definition) it must be DISTASTEFUL!

    Anyhow, maybe going down that psychological path will lead to a breakthrough "cure." --- Maybe not. Just my observations, for whatever they are worth.

    Cheers.

    -- TW

    PS: On second thought, maybe I should've used the word "legitimate," instead of effective.
    As in... I got the distinct impression Steven subscribed to the "BAD TASTING MEDICINE" syndrome. It is impossible for a medicine to be legitimate, unless it tastes HORRIBLE. And, further, the legitimacy of a medicine is directly proportional to how TERRIBLE it tastes.

    This, I believe, is an offshoot of DEPRESSION ERA thinking. If something is easy or simple, it (by definition) cannot be legitimate. And, if something is legitimate, (by definition) it must be complicated and DISTASTEFUL!

    Does that ring any inner brain wiring bell(s)?
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Just got up and read the overnight replies.

      Last night before going to sleep, I said to my wife "That's it, I'm done. I'm going back to the way I used to do things when I felt like I was the hottest thing since Angelina Joli. People may have not liked that SOB but he sure as hell was successful."

      I made a to-do list. It's jam packed and diversified. It's a 14 hour work day. That's what I'm going back to. That's what made me successful. That's what will make me successful again. I will work this schedule until I make it again.

      Things on tap for today.

      1) Go to Main Discussion. Already found 2 threads I can comment on. Will do that and then I'm done with the WF for today. This place is a time suck and it's not productive. I will be back tomorrow or later tonight if I have time.

      2) Write and record 2 more dance tracks for members area.

      3) Write and record 1 more track for RFM site.

      4) Work on sales page technical issues. Upload sample tracks to web site. I'll upload a few that prospects can hear and then the rest in a zip file that they can download and listen to on their own if they want.

      5) Start putting together a WSO in the IM niche. It will be about some topic that I still know and doesn't involve making money directly or getting traffic, the two things that I'm not qualified to sell anymore. But things about writing, time management, niche research, that I can do.

      6) Write one article for RFM site.

      7) Setup autoresponder and opt in form for RFM site in order to start building list.

      If I work on each of those for 2 hours a piece, that's my 14 hour day. Some will take less time, like the Main Discussion threads. Some might take a little longer, like the sales page completion.

      I am starting at 7 AM (14 minutes from now) and stopping work at 9 PM.

      That's my day. That will be everyday until I make it. Some days there will be different items on the list. I know I have to come up with immediate money makers. I will probably take a chance on iStock and upload 20 or 30 tracks to see what happens. I'll upload my best ones.

      I will change my mindset. I will not accept failure and I will not look for problems. Only solutions. If I don't technically know how to do something I will come here and start a thread asking how it's done. But I will not wait for an answer because one may not come. I will continue by also researching the issue and maybe find the answer on my own.

      That's it. I'm done. The old Steven Wagenheim is back, You may not like him, but this time next year I will be back on top and this time I won't fall off that mountain because I am going to constantly keep on top of things making sure I am aware of the state of marketing and what is working and not working.

      Once I start making real money again, I will go back to writing MMO books and teach people how to do what I did. That's right. Once I am successful again I will return to the niche that made me. I was blaming it for my problems. My problems were me. Period.

      See you all tonight or tomorrow.

      And Mark, thanks for the kick in the ass.

      Really, I mean it.

      I'm done being a failure.
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      • Profile picture of the author discrat
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        J

        That's it. I'm done. The old Steven Wagenheim is back,
        Good! About damn time !! Contrary to what you may think there are those that do miss that little sh!t
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Les and Kay. I love you too.

          I just finished a very long day of work where I completed or near completed the following items.

          1) Two more dance tracks for membership site (completed)

          2) Week 4 of online Songwriting course. (completed whole weeks work)

          3) Week 5 of Music Production course. (completed whole weeks work)

          4) Membership site page for download and instructions (completed)

          5) Wrote 1,000 word article for Royalty Free Music site

          6) Began work on 3rd dance track (Need to add some backing tracks and final mix)

          7) Worked on sales letter for dance product. Added preview tracks. About half way done with entire sales letter. Should be able to submit to Clickbank for approval by end of week the latest.

          8) Bumped PLR WSO. Off page 1 in 8 hours. Zero sales. I think it's safe to say it's a dead issue. I'm going to close it shortly. No point throwing good money after bad.

          14.5 hours work today. Feel good about what I accomplished. Tomorrow will be more time spent on the sales page as my course work is finished for the whole week.

          One observation.

          A member ran a Royalty Free Music WSO that was incredible value. Over 1,200 tracks for $47. There was a smaller offer of 700 tracks for $17. I wouldn't even attempt to compete with those prices for that much music and yet, if you look at his WSO, it appears to be a dismal failure. As of right now he has all of 72 views. That's on a brand new WSO after a whole afternoon and part of the evening.

          This is now the second RFM WSO that I've seen that appears to be a failure or close to it. I see no point in running that type of WSO here as it appears to be something that's just not that much in demand at this forum. Take a look at the top WSOs. They're all about some quick method to make tons of money fast. That's the mentality here now. That's what the people who go there want.

          I am going to concentrate on the activities that will give me the best chance of making a profit. I am keeping a positive mindset about what I'm doing and I'm not going to give any credence to the snide remarks by even addressing them any longer. People will say what they want and I can't stop them, nor do I care enough to try.

          I may or may not be back tomorrow. I'll scan Main Discussion for a couple of threads I can respond to, if they exist, and then I'll go right back to work. Like I said, this place is a time suck and I just can't afford that luxury anymore. You see what I accomplished today. That's what every single day has to be like until the money starts coming in.

          Once it does, then I may be back.

          To those who cared enough to help me without the digs, thank you. You may not believe it because of my history, but you finally got me to be fed up with my situation and do something about it.

          I will succeed.

          And when I do, you'll be one of the first to know.

          Take care until then.
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          • Profile picture of the author Midnight Oil
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            I just finished a very long day of work where I completed or near completed the following items.

            1) Two more dance tracks for membership site (completed)

            2) Week 4 of online Songwriting course. (completed whole weeks work)

            3) Week 5 of Music Production course. (completed whole weeks work)

            4) Membership site page for download and instructions (completed)

            5) Wrote 1,000 word article for Royalty Free Music site

            6) Began work on 3rd dance track (Need to add some backing tracks and final mix)

            7) Worked on sales letter for dance product. Added preview tracks. About half way done with entire sales letter. Should be able to submit to Clickbank for approval by end of week the latest.

            8) Bumped PLR WSO. Off page 1 in 8 hours. Zero sales. I think it's safe to say it's a dead issue. I'm going to close it shortly. No point throwing good money after bad.
            Congratulations, Steve. Feels great, doesn't it? As these daily accomplishments grow, so will your confidence.

            I'm proud of you. I'm sure others are, as well.

            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            14.5 hours work today. Feel good about what I accomplished. Tomorrow will be more time spent on the sales page as my course work is finished for the whole week.
            Marathons can be great and are sometimes necessary to get things moving. Sometimes they're just awesome fun when you're in the zone. Just keep your health a priority and don't overdo it. Part of the reason we do what we do is to have greater control of our time and freedom to live life more abundantly.

            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            One observation.

            A member ran a Royalty Free Music WSO that was incredible value. Over 1,200 tracks for $47. There was a smaller offer of 700 tracks for $17. I wouldn't even attempt to compete with those prices for that much music and yet, if you look at his WSO, it appears to be a dismal failure. As of right now he has all of 72 views. That's on a brand new WSO after a whole afternoon and part of the evening.

            This is now the second RFM WSO that I've seen that appears to be a failure or close to it. I see no point in running that type of WSO here as it appears to be something that's just not that much in demand at this forum.
            Dig deeper. I found:

            January 2014, 8,597 views, 101 for $19.97:
            http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...-projects.html

            May 2014, 656 views, 50 for $9.99
            http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...ects-life.html

            March 2014, 870 views, 120 for $3.90
            http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...io-tracks.html

            Seems to be some interest. Maybe even enough for one person to step in and become the authority in that area. Someone will eventually.

            Video is here and now. It's also the future. Most of those videos will need background music.

            That you compose your own quality music puts you ahead of the pack. That you write well enough and know so much about the industry puts you in a unique position to teach people the dangers of using what may be unlicensed music from other parties. Sounds like a great thread you could start upstairs to get more eyes on your sig.

            If I had your talent, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss this.

            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            I will succeed.
            I believe you.

            Have a great week, Steve. I look forward to reading more updates on your success.
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          • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            One observation.

            A member ran a Royalty Free Music WSO that was incredible value. Over 1,200 tracks for $47. There was a smaller offer of 700 tracks for $17. I wouldn't even attempt to compete with those prices for that much music and yet, if you look at his WSO, it appears to be a dismal failure. As of right now he has all of 72 views. That's on a brand new WSO after a whole afternoon and part of the evening.

            This is now the second RFM WSO that I've seen that appears to be a failure or close to it. I see no point in running that type of WSO here as it appears to be something that's just not that much in demand at this forum. Take a look at the top WSOs. They're all about some quick method to make tons of money fast. That's the mentality here now. That's what the people who go there want.
            First, I'm not aware of the offer you're talking about in this example. I looked and even did a search but couldn't find it. I will say that 1200 tracks might be incredible value but not necessarily. I recently replied to a thread where a guy (the same guy, maybe) was asking what Warriors in general thought of his music. He offered six free sample "tracks."

            The thing was there were only two unique tunes, each with three different running times. So I highly suspect that 1200 track thing would boil down to considerably fewer original songs. The quality of the cuts was okay but I don't think I'd pay $47 for them and I told him so (nicely) in the thread.

            So with that in mind I think your logic contains a major flaw. You talk about RFM as though it's a commodity like this years banana crop. Someone posted a couple of links to RFM WSOs in this thread and I checked them out. IMO each was mediocre to fair. Even at the bargain prices I wasn't interested.

            My point is, if the quality is good people will buy it. Last week I stumbled onto an offer here by Anita Unsworth, a British gal. She's selling 10 high quality tracks for a buck. Why so cheap? Because she's planting seeds. She's getting her stuff out there. She provided samples and I bought the 10 pack as well as an OTO offering 30 or so sound effects for $7.

            Amazing quality and value by a seasoned musician. Now, when she puts out a more comprehensive offer with a lot of tracks she's got her audience all lined up. And I'll be there with my CC ready.

            But, and this is a big but, the only way she, or anyone, can do this is by offering excellent stuff. As mentioned, music is not a uniform commodity. It varies a lot across the board. It's subject to the tastes of many people. I don't necessarily personally like all the tracks I've purchased but I can tell you that they're all good and will be useful for certain projects.

            The links I followed from this thread led to collections that sound as though they were thrown together in a day or two to capitalize on demand. There were one or two decent cuts in the samples but not enough to warrant spending $3.99 for one (50 tunes) and $9.99 for another (100+). The market isn't always right about a product but it usually is. These two offers were a freakin' ghost town.

            I'm being deliberately redundant but my point is, if the quality is there these offers sell like wildfire. Two Warriors have released video making software over the last six months and LOTs of people have bought it. There's a huge audience hanging around here scooping up RFM to accompany their new videos.
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            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
              Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

              First, I'm not aware of the offer you're talking about in this example. I looked and even did a search but couldn't find it. I will say that 1200 tracks might be incredible value but not necessarily. I recently replied to a thread where a guy (the same guy, maybe) was asking what Warriors in general thought of his music. He offered six free sample "tracks."

              The thing was there were only two unique tunes, each with three different running times. So I highly suspect that 1200 track thing would boil down to considerably fewer original songs. The quality of the cuts was okay but I don't think I'd pay $47 for them and I told him so (nicely) in the thread.

              So with that in mind I think your logic contains a major flaw. You talk about RFM as though it's a commodity like this years banana crop. Someone posted a couple of links to RFM WSOs in this thread and I checked them out. IMO each was mediocre to fair. Even at the bargain prices I wasn't interested.

              My point is, if the quality is good people will buy it. Last week I stumbled onto an offer here by Anita Unsworth, a British gal. She's selling 10 high quality tracks for a buck. Why so cheap? Because she's planting seeds. She's getting her stuff out there. She provided samples and I bought the 10 pack as well as an OTO offering 30 or so sound effects for $7.

              Amazing quality and value by a seasoned musician. Now, when she puts out a more comprehensive offer with a lot of tracks she's got her audience all lined up. And I'll be there with my CC ready.

              But, and this is a big but, the only way she, or anyone, can do this is by offering excellent stuff. As mentioned, music is not a uniform commodity. It varies a lot across the board. It's subject to the tastes of many people. I don't necessarily personally like all the tracks I've purchased but I can tell you that they're all good and will be useful for certain projects.

              The links I followed from this thread led to collections that sound as though they were thrown together in a day or two to capitalize on demand. There were one or two decent cuts in the samples but not enough to warrant spending $3.99 for one (50 tunes) and $9.99 for another (100+). The market isn't always right about a product but it usually is. These two offers were a freakin' ghost town.

              I'm being deliberately redundant but my point is, if the quality is there these offers sell like wildfire. Two Warriors have released video making software over the last six months and LOTs of people have bought it. There's a huge audience hanging around here scooping up RFM to accompany their new videos.
              I know one of the softwares you're talking about (ESP) and that's one of the people I approached for a JV to do tracks exclusively for his product.

              Still haven't heard back. My gut tells me I won't, which really puzzles me. I made the offer wide open so he could modify it as he wished and tailored it to HIS needs. In short, I said "What works for you?" I made it a no brainer unless he's just not interested in a music deal, which is quite possible.

              I don't want people thinking I'm sitting here twiddling my thumbs. Yeah, for a long time I just said screw it and didn't do a heck of a lot. I was essentially throwing in the towel. But I'm not doing that now. I am pulling out every stop I can think of within reason. I can't sell packages for $1 a piece with a $20 WSO price tag. I can't afford it. I'd need 20 sales to break even. I'm going to have to go another route. And I will, I'll figure it out. I'm back to working 14 hour days. I have deadlines set for myself for each project. If most people would do what I'm doing now, the ones who haven't yet had any success online, they would probably start to see some, depending on what they got themselves into.

              Like I said earlier, I will accept nothing less than success. I don't particular care which project it is (which is why I'm not putting all my eggs in one basket) as long as one of them takes off.

              And one of them will if it kills me.
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            • Profile picture of the author LynnM
              Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

              Last week I stumbled onto an offer here by Anita Unsworth, a British gal. She's selling 10 high quality tracks for a buck. Why so cheap? Because she's planting seeds. She's getting her stuff out there. She provided samples and I bought the 10 pack as well as an OTO offering 30 or so sound effects for $7.
              There's also a lady giving away tracks in the War Room (which I think we both downloaded), and they come with PLR rights. Within the download there's a link to get loops for free, in exchange for signing up to her email list.
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              • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                Originally Posted by LynnM View Post

                There's also a lady giving away tracks in the War Room (which I think we both downloaded), and they come with PLR rights. Within the download there's a link to get loops for free, in exchange for signing up to her email list.
                Lynn, do they have to buy the PLR rights? I would assume so. If yes, that could be a very good idea.
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                • Profile picture of the author LynnM
                  Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                  Lynn, do they have to buy the PLR rights? I would assume so. If yes, that could be a very good idea.
                  No, plr and resell rights come with them. Here's the War Room link: http://www.warriorforum.com/war-room...tions-plr.html

                  And here's the one travlinguy mentioned: http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...ple-trick.html
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                • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                  I would have had to check a dead WSO every day for 5 months. What kind of productive use of time would that have been?
                  ...or would have had to check the thread when you bumped it this week?
                  Signature
                  Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.

                  I wish offended people would react like fainting goats and quietly tip over.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                    ...or would have had to check the thread when you bumped it this week?
                    In hindsight, probably. I didn't think it mattered. I figured people would read the copy and buy or not buy.

                    Stupid me. What was I thinking.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alfred Shelver
    Feel like I am in the twilight Zone .. when my wife Cathy was on here she used to talk so highly of Steve ... yeah she was blown away by the number of posts. And his incredible writing skills.

    So seeing this and reading everything was quite the eye opener ...

    Can I make a silly suggestion ... but Why not put up a warrior for hire thread and write Articles ...Reading your lengthy responses here on this forum your typing skills are incredible or I am just the world's slowest typist. And your writing ability is self evident.

    "Old Warrior super marketer back to where he started writing articles"

    Your CV must be impressive and I know I would pay $14 dollars for 500 words in a heart beat. I would have feared saying that before as it may have been insulting however if you only made $500 this year well maybe writing articles is just fine. I am sure you could write atleast 6 in 5 hours leaving 9 hours for other stuff ... so make 90 dollars before you start working ... Link to your signature limited time writing jobs accepted and then all your posts will be adverts for your writing ?

    I hope that was not insulting was just my thought.
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by Alfred Shelver View Post

      Feel like I am in the twilight Zone .. when my wife Cathy was on here she used to talk so highly of Steve ... yeah she was blown away by the number of posts. And his incredible writing skills.

      So seeing this and reading everything was quite the eye opener ...

      Can I make a silly suggestion ... but Why not put up a warrior for hire thread and write Articles ...Reading your lengthy responses here on this forum your typing skills are incredible or I am just the world's slowest typist. And your writing ability is self evident.

      "Old Warrior super marketer back to where he started writing articles"

      Your CV must be impressive and I know I would pay $14 dollars for 500 words in a heart beat. I would have feared saying that before as it may have been insulting however if you only made $500 this year well maybe writing articles is just fine. I am sure you could write atleast 6 in 5 hours leaving 9 hours for other stuff ... so make 90 dollars before you start working ... Link to your signature limited time writing jobs accepted and then all your posts will be adverts for your writing ?

      I hope that was not insulting was just my thought.

      Great advice. Sounds good. Hope Steve will take notice.

      I may even Buy some Email Copy from him if he offers it.

      Steve, why not take some of the auto responder follow ups you did in past and break down the ones that had highest Open rates and Conversions and make a download report of them and sell it for $20 or something ?
      That is real easy to put together. Takes no time !

      I remember that one month you hit 16K. Iam sure that fact alone would have a lot of pull with people and if you do it right, there are tons of people who would buy your Email Copy.

      Just an idea.
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    • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
      Originally Posted by Alfred Shelver View Post

      when my wife Cathy was on here
      Alfred,

      The news of Cathy's passing was absolutely tragic to me. She was a delightful customer and a pleasure to chat with.

      I don't have to tell you that she was a wonderful lady who is missed.

      Just wanted to say it to you.

      Best to you and your family,

      Brian
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      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod View Post

        Alfred,

        The news of Cathy's passing was absolutely tragic to me. She was a delightful customer and a pleasure to chat with.

        I don't have to tell you that she was a wonderful lady who is missed.

        Just wanted to say it to you.

        Best to you and your family,

        Brian
        I echo what Brian said. Cathy was a sweetheart. She made a good impression on a lot of people here. Your post to Steve shows good people come in twos.
        Signature

        Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

          Your post to Steve shows good people come in twos.
          They most certainly do, in this instance. It was more than just a pleasure to know Cathy, through this forum, and it's also been a privilege to be in touch with Alfred on and off over the last 15 months, or so.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Alfred Shelver View Post

      Feel like I am in the twilight Zone .. when my wife Cathy was on here she used to talk so highly of Steve ... yeah she was blown away by the number of posts. And his incredible writing skills.

      So seeing this and reading everything was quite the eye opener ...

      Can I make a silly suggestion ... but Why not put up a warrior for hire thread and write Articles ...Reading your lengthy responses here on this forum your typing skills are incredible or I am just the world's slowest typist. And your writing ability is self evident.

      "Old Warrior super marketer back to where he started writing articles"

      Your CV must be impressive and I know I would pay $14 dollars for 500 words in a heart beat. I would have feared saying that before as it may have been insulting however if you only made $500 this year well maybe writing articles is just fine. I am sure you could write atleast 6 in 5 hours leaving 9 hours for other stuff ... so make 90 dollars before you start working ... Link to your signature limited time writing jobs accepted and then all your posts will be adverts for your writing ?

      I hope that was not insulting was just my thought.
      Alfred, first off, Cathy was a sweet lady to me. Sweeter than I deserved. I remember her very well. I don't think she ever had an unkind word to say about anybody. When I heard about her passing I was stunned. I didn't want to believe it. She was so good. It couldn't be true. I know you must miss her terribly and my heart goes out to completely. I know what I'd be like if my saint of a wife (she has to be to put up with me) wasn't here. Please accept my condolences.

      Thank you for your advice. I won't rule out anything anymore and what you suggested certainly sounds doable.

      I am finally starting to take the advice of many of the people here. I just put up a mailing list link on my Royalty Free Music Site. I know I should have done it a long time ago. Better late than never.

      Right now I'm in the middle of another long work day but I wanted to take the time to tell you that I appreciate the concern you must have had to take the time out to offer your piece of advice. That only confirms what I believed that anybody married to that angel of a woman had to be special too.

      Thank you again, It is appreciated more than you could ever possibly imagine.
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  • Profile picture of the author salegurus
    Not much to add really, some very good responses regarding the Main Forum.
    And yes anyone with one eye and half a brain can see that it's a mere shadow of what it used to be a few years ago. I agree with Paul that the poor quality of the MF is not new, it started going south a while back...

    Overrun by newbies with no clue and very little when it comes to grey matter and those who are only there to establish credibility, get exposure for whatever crap money making scam they are promoting or simply to make themselves look good...

    How many times can you answer the same question over and over and over?
    Many of the threads are so poor my 5 year old could probably answer them with a quick Google on his iPad, is it because these newbies are just plain stupid or lazy?

    Cheers
    Signature
    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.

    ― George Carlin
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    • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
      Originally Posted by salegurus View Post

      How many times can you answer the same question over and over and over?
      Many of the threads are so poor my 5 year old could probably answer them with a quick Google on his iPad, is it because these newbies are just plain stupid or lazy?

      Cheers
      or they are over-whelmed, suffering from information-overload, and lost. We were all once "newbies", remember? Perhaps instead of bashing them, you can easily set them right, even if it's to tell them to use the search function so that they understand there is no free ride here.

      It takes enormous patience, empathy, and understanding, to deal with people. Not everyone is good at it.
      Signature
      ---------------
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Theo,
      How many times can you answer the same question over and over and over?
      Speaking from personal experience... Hundreds and hundreds. And there will always be new people who didn't see any of them.


      Paul
      Signature
      .
      Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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      • Profile picture of the author salegurus
        Originally Posted by Karen Blundell View Post


        It takes enormous patience, empathy, and understanding, to deal with people. Not everyone is good at it.
        That's why i'll leave it to better people like yourself Karen.
        I've reached the stage where i'm almost out of all three....


        [QUOTE=Karen Blundell;9436172]or they are over-whelmed, suffering from information-overload, and lost. We were all once "newbies", remember? [/QUOT

        Of course i remember but there is a difference. IMO people are becoming either lazier, expecting to be spoon-fed or dumber judging by some of the idiotic threads you come across on IM forums...
        Signature
        Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.

        ― George Carlin
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  • Profile picture of the author TimothyW
    For what it's worth -- that George Carlin quote isn't (even) very smart.
    ("Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.” ― George Carlin)

    He means the MEDIAN person, on the "stupidity" chart.

    -- TW
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    • Profile picture of the author salegurus
      Originally Posted by TimothyW View Post

      For what it's worth -- that George Carlin quote isn't (even) very smart.
      ("Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." ― George Carlin)

      He means the MEDIAN person, on the "stupidity" chart.

      -- TW

      Ummmm, OK thanks for your input....
      Signature
      Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.

      ― George Carlin
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      • Profile picture of the author TimothyW
        Originally Posted by salegurus View Post

        Ummmm, OK thanks for your input....
        There may be way more than "half the people" who are stupider than a person who is of "average" stupidity -- or there may be way fewer than half the people who are stupider than a person who is of "average" stupidity. There's no way of knowing from that info.

        What Carlin means is not the person of *average* stupidity. He means the person of *median* stupidity.

        Half are above and half are below. That's what median means. That's *not* what "average" means. That's also not what "mean" means!!

        Cheers.

        -- T "Mr. Helpful" W
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        • Profile picture of the author Lance K
          Originally Posted by TimothyW View Post

          There may be way more than "half the people" who are stupider than a person who is of "average" stupidity -- or there may be way fewer than half the people who are stupider than a person who is of "average" stupidity. There's no way of knowing from that info.

          What Carlin means is not the person of *average* stupidity. He means the person of *median* stupidity.

          Half are above and half are below. That's what median means. That's *not* what "average" means. That's also not what "mean" means!!

          Cheers.

          -- T "Mr. Helpful" W
          Yes, but if it happens that way more than half are stupider than the person of median stupidity they probably understand average to mean median. Perhaps he was just speaking the language his audience understood.
          Signature
          "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
          ~ Zig Ziglar
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  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    Am I the only one who's thinking that the name "Gearslutz" might sound kind of raunchy to some people?
    Signature

    Project HERE.

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    • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
      Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

      Am I the only one who's thinking that the name "Gearslutz" might sound kind of raunchy to some people?
      GearSlutz is a pro audio forum and as such makes perfect sense to the intended market.

      Those of us afflicted with G.A.S. (gear acquisition syndrome) affectionately call catalogs "gear porn".

      If the mention of a vintage U67 running through a 1073 doesn't make you "tingle"... you won't get it.
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      • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
        Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod View Post

        GearSlutz is a pro audio forum and as such makes perfect sense to the intended market.

        Those of us afflicted with G.A.S. (gear acquisition syndrome) affectionately call catalogs "gear porn".

        If the mention of a vintage U67 running through a 1073 doesn't make you "tingle"... you won't get it.
        I don't get it but I play around with Audacity, auto-tune apps, and did stay at a Holiday Inn last night.
        Signature

        Project HERE.

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        • Profile picture of the author The 13th Warrior
          There is nothing that is impossible.

          I say, all the "old time" warriors get together, the ones that can verity each other and create a sub-forum here called Senior Warriors where only the best get together.

          Each member has enough access to vote a pending post NOT to be published, with a warning to knuckleheads that ANOTHER stupid posts thats not DRIPPING with out of the box, experienced, useful , chokefull of content worthy of THE OLD WARRIOR forum, not asking smart questions, will get an immediate progression of bans from that sub-forum of 3, 6 or 12 months or longer.

          This sub-forum, no faking the funk, would be all star, serious people, experienced people, people who know the other members KNOW THEIR **** .

          It would be like white belts, brown belts, green belts, simply sitting on their ass and keeping their mouth shut as they watch in wonder of 32nd degree masters do things they can only surmise as close to magic or like watching Tesla invent gasoline from water.

          Only contributors of the highest order are allowed to participate in this sub-forum.

          Old Republic Jedi's, no ability to fake it in there.

          My dumb ass would not dare open me trap in there, just sit back, grab some popcorn, and watch the masters split atoms with 137mph fast ball pitches.

          This can happen, without a lot of fuss.

          Yep.


          The 13th Warrior
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  • Profile picture of the author Alfred Shelver
    I like the suggestion ... of a section for only senior warrior over 2000 posts or over X years on warrior forum. Everyone can view but not everyone can participate. ( from my very short observations seems off topic is in a way fulfilling that gap see more older warrior member posts here than anywhere else.)

    But I would love to see a forum of older warriors bashing brains on topics of substance. And yes I to would just sit back and enjoy ...
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Getting this back on topic, I like 13th Warrior's idea. The problem is, somebody like me who really needs help getting his life back together wouldn't be allowed to ask any questions there, so unless my "problem" came up in the normal course of discussion, I wouldn't get it solved. So that sub forum really wouldn't be of much immediate help to me, though I might learn something useful for the future.

      As for Main Discussion, the other day I started a thread asking for advice on what would be the best way to go about pitching a product + membership. I gave two options and asked which one they liked better.

      I got one response. That's it. One. When I responded back asking how to make that work for affiliates (I don't see how it can) there was no response back. The thread got all of maybe 30 views and is not off page 1.

      At one time, all the forum vets would have been all over that thread making suggestions and debating the pros and cons of each. I know this for a fact because I remember those threads. You could get a complete education on a subject just from them.

      I'm sorry, but those days are gone. Here I am, I need help and quite honestly, I no longer know where to go for it. Is there another marketing forum where I can get the help I need? I'm dead serious. The WF is obviously not going to give me the assistance that I need.

      Having said that, I am willing to try to make this a better place. This morning I replied to two of the threads that I felt I was qualified to respond to. I know that I alone can't make a difference but maybe others will follow.

      In the meantime, I've got some issues. I have legitimate questions about how to do things, some of them I never did even when my business was thriving and I don't know where to go for answers. I don't want to bring the questions up here because I don't want to hijack this thread. The topic here is the viability of Main Discussion and I would like to keep the conversation on that topic and away from me specifically.

      So how do we change things over there? Can we change things over there or am I beating a dead horse? And if so, where does one go for the help that they need?
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  • Profile picture of the author Alfred Shelver
    I think if you were still in the MMO niche the new main forum is perfect soo many more eyes and soo many more hungry newbies. The saturation of those many more newbies will dilute forum content however the learning curve we all go on means content that may have been gold starting out may not be the same now.

    I really think a more advanced General topic forum is a great idea and yes Steven you would most definitely be allowed on there ...
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    • Profile picture of the author Midnight Oil
      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

      As for Main Discussion, the other day I started a thread asking for advice on what would be the best way to go about pitching a product + membership. I gave two options and asked which one they liked better.

      I got one response. That's it. One. When I responded back asking how to make that work for affiliates (I don't see how it can) there was no response back. The thread got all of maybe 30 views and is not off page 1.
      You posted it just over 24 hours ago, not the other day.

      Check it again.

      I see you forgot to mention the other thread you also started yesterday asking a question that you were given answers to.

      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

      Here I am, I need help and quite honestly, I no longer know where to go for it. Is there another marketing forum where I can get the help I need? I'm dead serious. The WF is obviously not going to give me the assistance that I need.
      You keep saying that, yet in this thread alone there are people who have been actively trying to help you with your pressing financial concerns and getting your project off the ground.

      Just like back in October with this . . .
      http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...t-so-lost.html

      . . . all I see is people who continue to try to help you, but you repeatedly keep defaulting to no one wants to help you and you can't find help here and this place sucks.

      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

      In the meantime, I've got some issues. I have legitimate questions about how to do things, some of them I never did even when my business was thriving and I don't know where to go for answers. I don't want to bring the questions up here because I don't want to hijack this thread. The topic here is the viability of Main Discussion and I would like to keep the conversation on that topic and away from me specifically.
      Hijack your own thread. No one cares.

      You keep repeating how desperate you are and how bad you need help, you said you've been unable to find it, you asked for suggestions and said you were listening.

      A wise man will take the help where he can get it.

      If you really want help, then let us know what you accomplished yesterday and what you still have left to do to get this project up and running. Beyond that, what did you do yesterday to make the money you need now?

      But if all you really want is a thread for you and others to complain about the lack of value here, then have at it.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Originally Posted by Midnight Oil View Post

        You posted it just over 24 hours ago, not the other day.

        Check it again.

        I see you forgot to mention the other thread you also started yesterday asking a question that you were given answers to.


        You keep saying that, yet in this thread alone there are people who have been actively trying to help you with your pressing financial concerns and getting your project off the ground.

        Just like back in October with this . . .
        http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...t-so-lost.html

        . . . all I see is people who continue to try to help you, but you repeatedly keep defaulting to no one wants to help you and you can't find help here and this place sucks.


        Hijack your own thread. No one cares.

        You keep repeating how desperate you are and how bad you need help, you said you've been unable to find it, you asked for suggestions and said you were listening.

        A wise man will take the help where he can get it.

        If you really want help, then let us know what you accomplished yesterday and what you still have left to do to get this project up and running. Beyond that, what did you do yesterday to make the money you need now?

        But if all you really want is a thread for you and others to complain about the lack of value here, then have at it.
        I want to thank you for taking the time to find that thread and respond to it. Your response was exactly what I was looking for.

        It doesn't change the reality. That thread, in 8 hours time 7 years ago would have had 25 to 50 responses minimum. The Main Discussion is a shell of what it was. Is anybody really even arguing against that? Paul Myers himself at least hinted that this is indeed the case.

        Regardless, I'm going to do what I can to make Main Discussion a better place. It begins with me.

        What did I do yesterday to make money?

        1) I bumped my PLR WSO. Not one sale from about 50 views.

        2) I contacted a software developer for a possible JV. I think my music will be a perfect fit for his software. No response yet. I am hoping he gets back to me but I'm cautiously optimistic. Most JV requests that I make go unanswered. That is just the reality.

        3) I went through my existing products to see if there is anything that I could package together. It's all in the PLR WSO. Maybe I need to take that down and re-position. I don't know. I hate throwing good money after bad. I honestly don't think my old products will sell in this environment. My PLR pack, while not a big seller last year, did do much better than it did yesterday on its first day. That leads me to believe that something has changed given that the members here are mostly all new and probably didn't purchase last year. I don't know what the problem is nor do I know where to even begin to research what the problem may be. And if I did have an idea, is it worth my time, time that could be spent putting together a product that I believe has a better chance of selling? Just how much time do I spend on old pursuits?

        4) Other than the above, I put in another 14 hour work day. I finished the entire product package including the first month's tracks for the member site. I have created a new Clickbank account and have contacted support about how to go about selling 7 products on one page, one of them being a recurring product. This is the most complicated offer I've ever put together in 11 years of marketing.

        5) I am going through the extensive learning curve of Optimize Press/Member. There is a lot to putting together a password and level protected membership site, something I haven't done in 6 years and never with this software. Needless to say, I am a bit lost. So I have a lot of work ahead of me just to be able to put all this together. So far, Clickbank has been very helpful with their support and I appreciate it. But there is still a lot I don't know and if I were to start a thread in OT about it, it would be 10 pages long. Who will bother taking the time to read it.

        Truth is, I need a coach to walk me through a lot of this because there are a lot of decisions to make. Do I make the membership an upsell or not? Which will be more effective? Do I increase the membership price to make it more exclusive or do I leave it where it is? And the questions go on and on.

        Having confidence is one thing, but when you're doing something that you've never done before, there are too many areas where you can make a mistake. Some mistakes are easily correctable. Some, not so easy.

        In addition to all that, I am thinking of other income opportunities that I could do rather quickly.

        For example, in the music production business the people in it use synths a lot. Most don't have the time to program patches from scratch. So they purchase patch libraries. This is a big niche. Banks of 128 patches sell for about $35. All the major synths are covered.

        I am an expert synth programmer. I've been doing this since 1979 with the old Moog synths. I was thinking of making my own a patch libraries for the top synths (I have them all) and selling them. Maybe selling for under market value. This will appeal to the people who are maybe a little strapped for cash.

        If the JV request I made goes through, that alone could be a grand in my pocket each month and it would be almost immediate payment.

        Believe me, I am working my butt off and thinking of everything I possibly can to make some cash. I don't know what else to do other than what I'm doing.

        But again, none of that has anything to do with this thread. Had it not been for you seeking out my thread, which you wouldn't have done had I not brought it up here, that question would have gone essentially unanswered.

        I may not a stubborn, pig headed, egotistical SOB, but I'm not stupid and blind.

        Main Discussion is a shell of what it once was.

        Anybody with their eyes open can see that.
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        • Profile picture of the author Lance K
          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

          What did I do yesterday to make money?

          1) I bumped my PLR WSO. Not one sale from about 50 views.


          3) I went through my existing products to see if there is anything that I could package together. It's all in the PLR WSO. Maybe I need to take that down and re-position. I don't know. I hate throwing good money after bad. I honestly don't think my old products will sell in this environment. My PLR pack, while not a big seller last year, did do much better than it did yesterday on its first day. That leads me to believe that something has changed given that the members here are mostly all new and probably didn't purchase last year. I don't know what the problem is nor do I know where to even begin to research what the problem may be. And if I did have an idea, is it worth my time, time that could be spent putting together a product that I believe has a better chance of selling? Just how much time do I spend on old pursuits?
          Why not throw a link to your WSO in your sig file?
          Signature
          "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
          ~ Zig Ziglar
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

            Why not throw a link to your WSO in your sig file?
            I guess it couldn't hurt.
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            • Profile picture of the author Midnight Oil
              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

              What did I do yesterday to make money?

              1) I bumped my PLR WSO. Not one sale from about 50 views.
              Actually, you bumped it Monday, so that doesn't count for yesterday.

              Effectively using your sig has been brought up at least a couple of times. I see you've added a link since I started writing this. Good for you.

              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

              2) I contacted a software developer for a possible JV. I think my music will be a perfect fit for his software. No response yet. I am hoping he gets back to me but I'm cautiously optimistic. Most JV requests that I make go unanswered. That is just the reality.
              Reality is some will, some won't . . . next!

              Set a goal for 5 contacts a day.

              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

              3) I went through my existing products to see if there is anything that I could package together.

              Just how much time do I spend on old pursuits?
              Still not understanding why you don't want to package parts of your existing RFM as a WSO or loading it to sites like iStock. AudioJungle is another option (up to 70% as an exclusive author). Arguments that it just isn't worth it aside, there's no reason to let it just gather dust on your computer.

              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

              4) Other than the above, I put in another 14 hour work day. I finished the entire product package including the first month's tracks for the member site. I have created a new Clickbank account and have contacted support about how to go about selling 7 products on one page, one of them being a recurring product.
              Good.

              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

              5) I am going through the extensive learning curve of Optimize Press/Member.
              Are these helpful?

              https://optimizepress.zendesk.com/hc...-Funnel-Setups

              https://optimizepress.zendesk.com/hc...-Sites-Portals

              https://optimizepress.zendesk.com/hc...ffiliate-links

              https://optimizepress.zendesk.com/hc...zePress-Manual

              What's missing in the above that you need answered?

              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

              Truth is, I need a coach to walk me through a lot of this because there are a lot of decisions to make.
              Where is the person you paid $10k to for this opportunity? They have nothing to offer?

              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

              Do I make the membership an upsell or not? Which will be more effective? Do I increase the membership price to make it more exclusive or do I leave it where it is? And the questions go on and on.
              One sheet of paper for each question, the question at the top.

              Pro's on one side, Con's on the other.

              Scratch off the items that don't make sense.

              Make a decision.

              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

              In addition to all that, I am thinking of other income opportunities that I could do rather quickly.

              Believe me, I am working my butt off and thinking of everything I possibly can to make some cash. I don't know what else to do other than what I'm doing.
              I thought Alfred had an excellent idea for you further up. You said it sounds doable. What's the plan?

              Going offline, are you able to physically work? Any lawns in the neighborhood that need cutting? Gutters that need to be cleaned?

              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

              For example, in the music production business the people in it use synths a lot. Most don't have the time to program patches from scratch. So they purchase patch libraries. This is a big niche. Banks of 128 patches sell for about $35. All the major synths are covered.
              So you'll be contacting some of those today and researching to build your list of contacts?

              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

              But again, none of that has anything to do with this thread.
              Sure it does. Your frustration over not finding help is why you posted it in the first place.

              Let's worry about Steve's problem and not WF's.
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              • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                Originally Posted by Midnight Oil View Post

                Actually, you bumped it Monday, so that doesn't count for yesterday.

                Effectively using your sig has been brought up at least a couple of times. I see you've added a link since I started writing this. Good for you.


                Reality is some will, some won't . . . next!

                Set a goal for 5 contacts a day.


                Still not understanding why you don't want to package parts of your existing RFM as a WSO or loading it to sites like iStock. AudioJungle is another option (up to 70% as an exclusive author). Arguments that it just isn't worth it aside, there's no reason to let it just gather dust on your computer.


                Good.


                Are these helpful?

                https://optimizepress.zendesk.com/hc...-Funnel-Setups

                https://optimizepress.zendesk.com/hc...-Sites-Portals

                https://optimizepress.zendesk.com/hc...ffiliate-links

                https://optimizepress.zendesk.com/hc...zePress-Manual

                What's missing in the above that you need answered?


                Where is the person you paid $10k to for this opportunity? They have nothing to offer?


                One sheet of paper for each question, the question at the top.

                Pro's on one side, Con's on the other.

                Scratch off the items that don't make sense.

                Make a decision.


                I thought Alfred had an excellent idea for you further up. You said it sounds doable. What's the plan?

                Going offline, are you able to physically work? Any lawns in the neighborhood that need cutting? Gutters that need to be cleaned?


                So you'll be contacting some of those today and researching to build your list of contacts?


                Sure it does. Your frustration over not finding help is why you posted it in the first place.

                Let's worry about Steve's problem and not WF's.
                The more I read your responses, the more I feel like I'm talking to Mr. Spock. You seem extremely logical. That's probably what I need right now.

                Yes, there are several good ideas above that could easily make me money in the next 30 to 60 days. Outside work with my allergies is not an option. I keep them under control by staying in an air conditioned home. Outdoors in winter is especially bad because it freezes my sinuses right up.

                Using your response of making a list and listing pros and cons of each thing, that's what I'm going to do with each general money making opportunity. I will then pick the one that looks like the best one for a quick income maker and do that in addition to my major product, splitting up the time between the two. Maybe 3 at most. But you're right, I have to bite the bullet and make a decision on what I'm going to do. Nobody can do that for me.

                The 10K I invested in this business didn't go to one person. It was split between computer, music software and hardware. I did this much correctly. I bought the best equipment and software and a powerful PC so I could make the best product possible. I didn't skimp on this. It's part of the reason money is so tight right now. I'm currently left with about $1,500 left in my business account. Eventually, it will be all gone.

                I know what I need to do. I just need to make a decision and do it.

                And yes, I will upload my best music tracks to several of the RFM sites such as iStock. As you said, right now, they're just collecting dust so I have nothing to lose.

                Thank you for caring. It means a lot to me.
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            • Profile picture of the author Lance K
              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

              I guess it couldn't hurt.
              Steve, just an observation, but your headline wording seems to be incongruent with the actual offer. It's possible that could be affecting your conversions.

              To me it sounds like everything is included and perhaps it's a dime sale that starts at $9.
              Signature
              "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
              ~ Zig Ziglar
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              • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

                Steve, just an observation, but your headline wording seems to be incongruent with the actual offer. It's possible that could be affecting your conversions.

                To me it sounds like everything is included and perhaps it's a dime sale that starts at $9.
                You may very well be right. I wrestled with that headline until I was blue in the face. I never could come up with anything that I really loved. This was the "best" of the bunch. If anybody has any ideas for changing it, I'm certainly open to suggestions. It's complicated because there are multiple offers on the page.
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                • Profile picture of the author Lance K
                  Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                  It's complicated because there are multiple offers on the page.
                  Absolutely.

                  How about sticking with the $9 offer in the thread and offering some or all of the others as upsells?
                  Signature
                  "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
                  ~ Zig Ziglar
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                  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                    Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

                    Absolutely.

                    How about sticking with the $9 offer in the thread and offering some or all of the others as upsells?
                    I just want to make sure I'm following you. Are you saying to remove the other offers from the WSO and offer them as an upsell after the initial sale?

                    If so, that's a technical issue I will have to work out because I don't know how to do upsells. Yeah, believe it or not, in 11 years I never learned how to do a sales pitch after somebody clicks the buy now button.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Lance K
                      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                      I just want to make sure I'm following you. Are you saying to remove the other offers from the WSO and offer them as an upsell after the initial sale?

                      If so, that's a technical issue I will have to work out because I don't know how to do upsells. Yeah, believe it or not, in 11 years I never learned how to do a sales pitch after somebody clicks the buy now button.
                      You could always just make those offers in an email series after the initial sale or in later WSOs. The main thing is to remove as much confusion from your offer as possible.

                      25,000+ words of IM PLR material for $9 should be able to sell on it's own.
                      Signature
                      "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
                      ~ Zig Ziglar
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                      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                        Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

                        You could always just make those offers in an email series after the initial sale or in later WSOs. The main thing is to remove as much confusion from your offer as possible.

                        25,000+ words of IM PLR material for $9 should be able to sell on it's own.
                        Okay, then that's what I'll do.

                        ** EDIT ** Okay, offer has been changed. Need to change subject.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Midnight Oil
                          Something that I noticed about the WSO: you had a comment back in February about your purchase links not working that was never addressed. Did they not work for the six months prior? Doesn't really matter now, but that hanging comment makes the WSO look abandoned.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                            Originally Posted by Midnight Oil View Post

                            Something that I noticed about the WSO: you had a comment back in February about your purchase links not working that was never addressed. Did they not work for the six months prior? Doesn't really matter now, but that hanging comment makes the WSO look abandoned.
                            I was never aware of a link not working. I tested them all and they all worked fine. Sometimes a person's Internet connection might have a glitch or the site itself could have been down when he tried to purchase.

                            In either case, there is nothing I can do about it. I can't delete comments on the thread. So if it looks abandoned, it looks abandoned. I'd like to think that somebody will actually read the copy before they start reading replies but who knows.

                            Anyway, it's out of my hands.
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                            • Profile picture of the author Lance K
                              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                              I was never aware of a link not working. I tested them all and they all worked fine. Sometimes a person's Internet connection might have a glitch or the site itself could have been down when he tried to purchase.

                              In either case, there is nothing I can do about it. I can't delete comments on the thread. So if it looks abandoned, it looks abandoned. I'd like to think that somebody will actually read the copy before they start reading replies but who knows.

                              Anyway, it's out of my hands.
                              You could PM them and ask them to delete it. Tell them you're relaunching the offer and would like to use the first reply spot for FAQs, etc. and that all links are now working. It's worth a shot.
                              Signature
                              "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
                              ~ Zig Ziglar
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                              • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                                Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

                                You could PM them and ask them to delete it. Tell them you're relaunching the offer and would like to use the first reply spot for FAQs, etc. and that all links are now working. It's worth a shot.
                                Who exactly do I PM? One of the WSO mods? Alastair?
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                                • Profile picture of the author Lance K
                                  Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                                  Who exactly do I PM? One of the WSO mods? Alastair?

                                  View Profile: LeonEdward

                                  I was talking about sending a PM to the guy who left the comment. I see he hasn't been active on WF since early July though, so it may be a long shot. Still worth a try.
                                  Signature
                                  "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
                                  ~ Zig Ziglar
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                              • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                In either case, there is nothing I can do about it.
                                You can post an answer - it's your thread! All you have to do (or should have done a long time ago) is to post "sorry, links are working now". Then the next person looking at the PLR knows IF there was a problem - it's fixed.

                                That was someone who wanted to buy - and you didn't answer his post.
                                Signature
                                Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.

                                I wish offended people would react like fainting goats and quietly tip over.
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                                • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                                  Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                  You can post an answer - it's your thread! All you have to do (or should have done a long time ago) is to post "sorry, links are working now". Then the next person looking at the PLR knows IF there was a problem - it's fixed.
                                  If I was aware that there was a problem, I would have addressed it then. I haven't had any activity for this WSO in I don't know how long and I was never aware that any posts were made to the thread until just the other day when I bumped it. I don't seem to get email notifications when somebody responds to one of my threads. Never did. That feature just never seemed to work for me. That's why the post is there and nothing was ever done about it. I didn't know it existed.

                                  ** EDIT ** Responded to thread.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                    I was just trying to help by pointing out a detail you were missing.

                                    I should have known it wasn't your fault - sorry I mentioned it.
                                    Signature
                                    Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.

                                    I wish offended people would react like fainting goats and quietly tip over.
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                                    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                                      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                      I was just trying to help by pointing out a detail you were missing.

                                      I should have known it wasn't your fault - sorry I mentioned it.
                                      No, it wasn't. The WSO was launched in August. My last sale was in September. That post was made in February, 5 months later. How in God's name was I supposed to know about it when...

                                      1) For all practical purposes the WSO was dead.

                                      2) I did not get an email notification.

                                      So no, it wasn't my fault. I would have had to check a dead WSO every day for 5 months. What kind of productive use of time would that have been?
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      This sub-forum, no faking the funk, would be all star, serious people, experienced people, people who know the other members KNOW THEIR **** .

      It would be like white belts, brown belts, green belts, simply sitting on their ass and keeping their mouth shut as they watch in wonder of 32nd degree masters do things they can only surmise as close to magic or like watching Tesla invent gasoline from water.
      I was laughing out loud at The 13th Warrior's 'suggestions'....and then saw some were taking it seriously! OMG!!!

      If this is the path "experienced Warriors" are taking....we need to get over ourselves, folks. Seriously!!!
      Signature
      Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.

      I wish offended people would react like fainting goats and quietly tip over.
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      • Profile picture of the author Lance K
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        I was laughing out loud at The 13th Warrior's 'suggestions'....and then saw some were taking it seriously! OMG!!!

        If this is the path "experienced Warriors" are taking....we need to get over ourselves, folks. Seriously!!!
        Wasn't that kind of the original premise of the War Room? Look how well that turned out.
        Signature
        "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
        ~ Zig Ziglar
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        • Profile picture of the author ExRat
          Hi Steven,

          Sorry for the slightly off-topic intervention in your thread, but this is the off-topic forum after all.

          I hope you don't mind.

          Some quotes from over the page -

          I say, all the "old time" warriors get together, the ones that can verity each other and create a sub-forum here called Senior Warriors where only the best get together.

          Each member has enough access to vote a pending post NOT to be published, with a warning to knuckleheads that ANOTHER stupid posts thats not DRIPPING with out of the box, experienced, useful , chokefull of content worthy of THE OLD WARRIOR forum, not asking smart questions, will get an immediate progression of bans from that sub-forum of 3, 6 or 12 months or longer.

          This sub-forum, no faking the funk, would be all star, serious people, experienced people, people who know the other members KNOW THEIR **** .

          It would be like white belts, brown belts, green belts, simply sitting on their ass and keeping their mouth shut as they watch in wonder of 32nd degree masters do things they can only surmise as close to magic or like watching Tesla invent gasoline from water.

          Only contributors of the highest order are allowed to participate in this sub-forum.

          Old Republic Jedi's, no ability to fake it in there.
          I like the suggestion ... of a section for only senior warrior over 2000 posts or over X years on warrior forum. Everyone can view but not everyone can participate.
          Wasn't that kind of the original premise of the War Room? Look how well that turned out.
          I was laughing out loud at The 13th Warrior's 'suggestions'....and then saw some were taking it seriously! OMG!!!

          If this is the path "experienced Warriors" are taking....we need to get over ourselves, folks. Seriously!!!
          I remember when I first joined, I think I joined 'Warrior Alliance' (or just 'the old forum') and then the main discussion moved to a new URL. The old forum stayed open, but only existing members could access it.

          When older members commented in the old forum about how the new forum was infested with newbies repeatedly asking the same annoying questions, they mentioned that the old forum could be a place where the 'elite' members could hold more high-brow discussions.

          I also remember observing as the same group of members wanted to mastermind together to create an uber-product for the old-style WSO forum. If I remember correctly, it was really slow moving because it was so huge. There was always one person tasked with performing a critical part of the operation who was absent due to illness, procrastination, other external issues or some unknown problem which led to the whole project being held up - the 'weakest link in the chain' issue.

          Meanwhile 'political' power struggles were breaking out, infighting, personal vendettas etc. I was too new and green to get involved, but it was fascinating to observe - a kind of microcosm of real world problems that typically occur when groups of people come together to achieve a multi-faceted and complicated common goal.

          The high-brow discussions didn't really end up occurring. Over time the 'does anyone still come in here?' posts appeared then I think it got wound up.

          Who else remembers this? Is my memory serving me correctly? The discussion I have quoted above reminded me of this and I guess some of the newer members may not realise that similar things have been tried before.

          I know a few of us spent some time colonising the 'herd marketing forum' some time afterwards which then died a swift and inglorious death after Allen took a dislike to the nature of our sometimes slightly elitist and highly critical rantings and wielded his god-like delete button of Damocles on the forum.

          Funny stuff and chucklesome memories.
          Signature


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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

            Hi Steven,

            Sorry to go slightly off-topic in your thread, but this is the off-topic forum after all. ;-)

            I hope you don't mind -

            Some quotes from over the page -

            I remember when I first joined, I think I joined 'Warrior Alliance' and then the main discussion moved to a new URL. The old forum stayed open, but only existing members could access it.

            When older members commented in the old forum about how the new forum was infested with newbies repeatedly asking the same annoying questions, they mentioned that the old forum could be a place where the 'elite' members could hold more high-brow discussions.

            I also remember observing as the same group of members wanted to mastermind together to create an uber-product for the old-style WSO forum. If I remember correctly, it was really slow moving because it was so huge. There was always one person tasked with performing a critical part of the operation who was absent due to illness, procrastination, other external issues or some unknown problem which led to the whole project being held up - the 'weakest link in the chain' issue.

            Meanwhile 'political' power struggles were breaking out, infighting, personal vendettas etc. I was too new and green to get involved, but it was fascinating to observe - a kind of microcosm of real world problems that typically occur when groups of people come together to achieve a multi-faceted and complicated common goal.

            The high-brow discussions didn't really end up occurring. Over time the 'does anyone still come in here?' posts appeared then I think it got wound up.

            Who else remembers this? Is my memory serving me correctly? The discussion I have quoted above reminded me of this and I guess some of the newer members may not realise that similar things have been tried before.

            I know a few of us spent some time colonising the 'herd marketing forum' some time afterwards which then died a swift and inglorious death after Allen took a dislike to the nature of our rantings and wielded his god-like delete button of Damocles on the forum.

            Funny stuff and chucklesome memories.
            Roger, it's so good to see you. I thought you dropped off the planet.

            I don't remember any of this at all so it must be before my time, but it doesn't surprise me if it's true. I think this is a case of "the grass is always greener" and then when you get to that other side, you realize it's all the same crap.

            I honestly don't know what the answer here is. But at this stage of my life, I can only care so much. I'm fighting just to get back on my feet. I do see some light at the end of the tunnel. I should have my new product out there soon (launch date Sept 2) and hopefully, I can get enough affiliates to turn this into a big hit.

            But I'm not putting all my irons in that one fire. I have other things lined up that I'll be working on after the product is out there. I only need one of these to take off.

            So some prayers and good wishes my way will certainly be appreciated.

            I will take my help from wherever I can get it.
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            • Profile picture of the author ExRat
              Hi Steven,

              Roger, it's so good to see you.
              Likewise my friend.

              I thought you dropped off the planet.
              I did, but I caused so many arguments in outer space that I got a lifetime ban and they sent me back here.

              I think this is a case of "the grass is always greener" and then when you get to that other side, you realize it's all the same crap.
              People keep telling me that when you get to 'the other side', the grass is not greener after all, it's just the same. But they even lied to me about that. It looked greener on the other side to me too, but when I actually got to the other side, they were just using mirrors to make the concrete look really green - there wasn't any grass at all, somebody had dug it up and run off with it!

              So some prayers and good wishes my way will certainly be appreciated.
              You have my best wishes mate.

              Just never forget the wise, Eastern saying - 'the journey is the reward.'
              Signature


              Roger Davis

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            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
              Okay, I went to Audio Jungle and signed up. After reading through all the terms and requirements, here is what I would need to do if I am going to use them.

              1) I have to create watermarked sample files for every track that I have longer than 2 seconds, which is all of them. That means more studio time in creating these watermarked samples.

              2) All MP3s have to be at 320 MPS. Mine are less. So I would have to resample every single track.

              So this isn't a matter of just uploading my music, which would be time consuming enough. I would have to redo everything just for Audio Jungle's use. So in a sense, I might as well just be starting from scratch and do an exclusive agreement and any music I write from here on out, do according to their specs and upload it.

              I'll do that, but it will be down the road and obviously I'm not going to have thousands of tracks to sell there. My goal is to upload one or two tracks a week starting in September. By the end of the year, I should have between 25 and 35 quality tracks on Audio Jungle.

              That's the best I can do under the circumstances.
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              • Profile picture of the author LynnM
                Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                My goal is to upload one or two tracks a week starting in September. By the end of the year, I should have between 25 and 35 quality tracks on Audio Jungle.

                That's the best I can do under the circumstances.
                The top selling music track is from someone who only has 28 tracks in their portfolio
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                • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                  Originally Posted by LynnM View Post

                  The top selling music track is from someone who only has 28 tracks in their portfolio
                  There you go. So I can make this work with just a few hours a week. And this way, I can concentrate on longer tracks and better quality.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                    Okay, I am totally stuck at 3 problem points in this process and don't know where to turn for help.

                    1) The pitch plus javascript code does not show up on my membership pitch page when I paste it using the enter javascript option in Optimize Press. I tried the HTML option too but that doesn't worth either.

                    Here is the code:

                    <script type="text/javascript">
                    function toggleAccept() {
                    var acceptLink = document.getElementById("accept");
                    var agreeCheckbox = document.getElementById("agreeCheckbox");
                    if (agreeCheckbox.checked) {
                    acceptLink.onclick=function() {
                    window.location=this.href + "&cbrblaccpt=true";
                    return false;
                    }
                    } else {
                    acceptLink.onclick=function() {
                    mustAccept();
                    return false;
                    }
                    }
                    }
                    function mustAccept() {
                    window.alert("By clicking accept, you agree to the payment terms of this recurring product.");
                    }
                    cbrblaccpt

                    </script>

                    It's valid Javascript but Optimize Press doesn't display it.

                    2) When creating a Pitch Plus flow at Clickbank, I can't enter in any products for it. It gives me flow 1, 2 and 3 but there appears to be no lines for entering product names, numbers, URLs, or anything. I want to take my pitch page for my main product and have it go to my upsell page for the membership. This really shouldn't be too hard to do but I can't figure it out. Obviously I am doing something wrong but I don't know what. If the product's need to be approved first, then this is a catch 22. I can't get approval until everything is setup and I can't set this up as things are right now.

                    3) The Pitch Plus flow creation instructions are beyond my technical comprehension. This is all Greek to me. I can't even follow it let alone understand it.

                    Is there anybody who can help me with this or am I just SOL?
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                    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                      Who else remembers this? Is my memory serving me correctly?

                      I remember the Alliance.

                      It was a monthly fee - membership was limited to 100 - and there was a long waiting list. The knowledge of the members in the Alliance blew me away when I joined it. It was an education just to read those threads. It was designed to be a place where experienced, successful marketers could compare methods and talk strategy without the 'static' of the main forum.

                      I don't know if the project brought the Alliance down or if it was designed to keep the Alliance from going down - but it was too much a time suck for some members, I think.

                      kay
                      Signature
                      Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.

                      I wish offended people would react like fainting goats and quietly tip over.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
                      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                      There you go. So I can make this work with just a few hours a week. And this way, I can concentrate on longer tracks and better quality.
                      Before writing new music, do a little research and see which songs are selling the best. I noticed a lot of stuff has no sales. You want your stuff on the other side of that line.

                      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                      Okay, I am totally stuck at 3 problem points in this process and don't know where to turn for help.

                      1) The pitch plus javascript code does not show up on my membership pitch page when I paste it using the enter javascript option in Optimize Press. I tried the HTML option too but that doesn't worth either.

                      Here is the code: <snip>
                      Try the programming forum for this. I had a JavaScript I was writing once and was completely flummoxed at one point. I posted my problem there and after a couple back and forth posts with one member he solved my problem beautifully.
                      Signature

                      Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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                      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                        Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

                        Before writing new music, do a little research and see which songs are selling the best. I noticed a lot of stuff has no sales. You want your stuff on the other side of that line.



                        Try the programming forum for this. I had a JavaScript I was writing once and was completely flummoxed at one point. I posted my problem there and after a couple back and forth posts with one member he solved my problem beautifully.
                        Thanks Dennis. I called Clickbank.

                        Readers Digest Version:

                        The reason I can't get the Pitch Plus process to work (regardless of whether I have it set up correctly or not) is because it doesn't work with unapproved products. You have to get your products approved first before you can test this process.

                        This kind of puts me in a weird place. After approval, I then will have to make changes to the actual pages that got approved in order to make those pages work with Pitch Plus. I can't make the changes now because they won't work with unapproved products.

                        So...after I get the products approved and make the changes I need to make, those changes may in turn screw up things that were working previously. And considering how little I am understanding this whole process, that is very likely.

                        Regardless, I have no choice in the matter. If I'm going to use Pitch Plus, I have to submit the products for approval and then worry about getting everything to work after I make the changes.

                        As I am technically close to incompetent, I don't have a warm and fuzzy feeling about this.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Midnight Oil
                          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                          I did some research and DLGuard 4.5 doesn't work with Pitch Plus without doing some modifications to the Clickbank URL in DLGuard itself. This is the last thing I want to mess with.

                          Possible issues between Optimize Member and Pitch Plus as I don't see any specific fields in Optimize Member related to Pitch Plus.
                          You should at least give Sam time to answer your question at the DLG forum.

                          But in one thread, he said:

                          What you could try, just put: &dlgp=1

                          ...at the end of your sales links, where "1" is the number of the product in DLGuard.
                          You may need to upgrade your version of DLG. Sam also says:

                          I can send you a patch that'll allow you to use Clickbank's Pitchplus, and DLGuard will create the links you need.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                            Originally Posted by Midnight Oil View Post

                            You should at least give Sam time to answer your question at the DLG forum.

                            But in one thread, he said:

                            You may need to upgrade your version of DLG. Sam also says:
                            I tried to do the upgrade from 4.5 to 4.6 in order to get the patch that he talks about in another thread.

                            The message I get is my support for upgraded has expired 2 years ago. In order to get an upgrade, it's $67. I don't have $67.

                            I'm going to see if I can't just change the entire process over to Optimize Member and use it to deliver digital goods. I can set up a membership page with a one time fee and lifetime access to it. That way, if somebody loses their download, all they have to do is log back in and redownload. I don't have to send another link through DLGuard and don't have to worry about expired links.

                            But I now have another issue that just crept up on me.

                            I received a warning from my web host (Hostgator) that I am approaching my disk space limit. I am also getting very close to my bandwidth limit.

                            If this thing takes off, the size of these downloads (100 meg for each sale minimum, some at 500 meg) Hostgator will either hit me with large fees or ask me to take my hosting elsewhere.

                            So I looked into Amazon S3. The problem I'm having is figuring out what it's going to cost me.

                            Here is the pricing page.

                            Pricing

                            If somebody can make heads or tails out of that, I'd appreciate it because I can't.

                            What will Amazon S3 cost me monthly if say I make 10 sales per day, each sale accessing 500 meg of MP3 data? I'm trying to do the math but I can't.

                            Anyone with experience with S3 who can help me out?

                            If it turns out to be cost effective, I'm going to redo my sales and members pages links and have everything downloaded from there so I don't lose my hosting.
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                            • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
                              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                              So I looked into Amazon S3. The problem I'm having is figuring out what it's going to cost me.

                              Here is the pricing page.

                              Pricing

                              If somebody can make heads or tails out of that, I'd appreciate it because I can't.
                              Steve,

                              S3 is the cheapest storage I've seen. I'm no mathematician, but if I figured this right:

                              500 megs x 10 sales = 5,000 megs.

                              There are 1000 megs to a gigabyte, so that's 5 gigabytes a day.

                              5 x 30 = 150 gigabytes a month

                              There are 1000 gigabytes in a terabyte. You're only at 150 (not figuring in the first gig is free) so your pricing is $0.120 per GB.

                              150 x $0.120 = $18/month for the data transfer.

                              PS - Are these downloads packages of songs? Most of my MP3's run about 4-5 megs. At 5 megs, it would take 100 songs to make a 500 meg download.
                              Signature

                              Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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                              • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                                Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

                                Steve,

                                S3 is the cheapest storage I've seen. I'm no mathematician, but if I figured this right:

                                500 megs x 10 sales = 5,000 megs.

                                There are 1000 megs to a gigabyte, so that's 5 gigabytes a day.

                                5 x 30 = 150 gigabytes a month

                                There are 1000 gigabytes in a terabyte. You're only at 150 (not figuring in the first gig is free) so your pricing is $0.120 per GB.

                                150 x $0.120 = $18/month for the data transfer.

                                PS - Are these downloads packages of songs? Most of my MP3's run about 4-5 megs. At 5 megs, it would take 100 songs to make a 500 meg download.
                                Dennis, I think I figured it out.

                                Each download is a pack of 30 MP3s. Each pack is about 100 meg. If they get the full package, it's 500 meg. If they also get the membership option, that's another 100 meg. I calculated it out to be about $23 a month on 10 sales a day, which isn't too bad. It comes out to about 1% of my monthly income IF every sale is made by affiliates. If not, then the cost is even less.

                                I think I'm going to go the S3 route. I just have to now figure out how to protect downloads off of another site using DLGuard.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                      Okay, I am totally stuck at 3 problem points in this process and don't know where to turn for help.

                      1) The pitch plus javascript code does not show up on my membership pitch page when I paste it using the enter javascript option in Optimize Press. I tried the HTML option too but that doesn't worth either.

                      Here is the code:

                      <script type="text/javascript">
                      function toggleAccept() {
                      var acceptLink = document.getElementById("accept");
                      var agreeCheckbox = document.getElementById("agreeCheckbox");
                      if (agreeCheckbox.checked) {
                      acceptLink.onclick=function() {
                      window.location=this.href + "&cbrblaccpt=true";
                      return false;
                      }
                      } else {
                      acceptLink.onclick=function() {
                      mustAccept();
                      return false;
                      }
                      }
                      }
                      function mustAccept() {
                      window.alert("By clicking accept, you agree to the payment terms of this recurring product.");
                      }
                      cbrblaccpt

                      </script>

                      It's valid Javascript but Optimize Press doesn't display it.
                      Steven, that javascript won't show up. It isn't suppose to. It simply gets a checkbox on your html page and sees if the person checked it and pops up a message when they do. I'm assuming the checkbox will be part of your payment link.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                        Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                        Steven, that javascript won't show up. It isn't suppose to. It simply gets a checkbox on your html page and sees if the person checked it and pops up a message when they do. I'm assuming the checkbox will be part of your payment link.
                        Yeah Thomas, I am aware that it's supposed to display a checkbox. It's not. I put it in the Javascript code section of Optimize Member at the very bottom of the sales page and the checkbox doesn't display at all.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                          Banned
                          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                          Yeah Thomas, I am aware that it's supposed to display a checkbox. It's not. I put it in the Javascript code section of Optimize Member at the very bottom of the sales page and the checkbox doesn't display at all.
                          No, the javascript you posted is not suppose to show a checkbox or anything else. It works behind the scene.

                          You need to add the payment link with checkbox separately.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                            Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                            No, the javascript you posted is not suppose to show a checkbox or anything else. It works behind the scene.

                            You need to add the payment link with checkbox separately.
                            Ah, I see. So then how do I know if the javascript is actually working? What do I test for?
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                            • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                              Banned
                              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                              Ah, I see. So then how do I know if the javascript is actually working? What do I test for?
                              Here is what I would do.

                              I would create a simple html page with just the payment link and javascript to test (pasted within the body tags). Then I would try to click the payment link without clicking the checkbox to see if a message pops up.

                              From reading the javascript, it looks like they need to agree to the recurring fee before payment can be made.

                              If that works, I would add it to optimize press. At this point you know the javascript and payment link is working so any problems will be a optimize press problem.
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            • Profile picture of the author Lance K
              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

              I don't remember any of this at all so it must be before my time, but it doesn't surprise me if it's true.

              Steven, when you joined someone even started a thread about you in the marketing to the herd (or whatever it was called) sub forum.

              There was quite a back and forth about your posting rate and rapid ascent to forum "fame" (for lack of a better word). <--- Not trying to be derogatory with the quotes. Just meaning that you developed quite a following and a good deal of influence rather quickly. Some people loved it and some people hated it. Made for an interesting read if boredom ever crept in.
              Signature
              "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
              ~ Zig Ziglar
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              • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

                Steven, when you joined someone even started a thread about you in the marketing to the herd (or whatever it was called) sub forum.

                There was quite a back and forth about your posting rate and rapid ascent to forum "fame" (for lack of a better word). <--- Not trying to be derogatory with the quotes. Just meaning that you developed quite a following and a good deal of influence rather quickly. Some people loved it and some people hated it. Made for an interesting read if boredom ever crept in.
                I remember that day well Lance. They descended on me like vultures wondering what the hell was up. LOL. I caused quite a stir.

                If I could go back in time, I would have done things entirely different. But what's done is done.

                On the plus side, in spite of today being one of mostly frustration (I'm no closer to getting this system working than I was at 5 this morning) I did make a PLR sale today. So whaddaya know. Simplified the offer and put it in my sig, per your suggestion, and one sale. If I participate in Main Discussion more, maybe more sales.

                Sometimes the simplest ideas are the best.

                Thank you, Really, thank you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    A couple things you may want to think about:

    1. You should know (but most people don't because they think the WSO forum is a the magic money tree) that just listing a WSO doesn't do a lot of good. You need to figure out how to market it. You need to be tweaking the offer, contacting potential affiliates (people you did business with before), and otherwise be getting the word out. Most of us have learned that the hard way. It may have been easy for you before because you had an active list and were active in the community but you haven't been for awhile now.

    2. Speaking of forum complaints, when people start talking about scammers in the WSO forum and how it needs to be fixed, those of us that try to bring common sense to the subject often suggest that before a WSO is bought that the potential buyer checks out the seller's reputation on the forum by looking at past posts. You probably need to ask yourself what will they see the last year?

    If it puts you in a bad light (rightfully or wrongfully) you may need to change that perception by being and posting positive, helpful things. The negative to positive ratio is waaaaaaay on the wrong side even though it looks like things are turning around.

    3. You mentioned that the music course would take all your time. Why? If you want to do something like that why not do a 30 page (you should be able to finish in about 10 minutes at your writing speed) report about the basics of using Audacity let's say to add music to your video. What about another 30 pages about how to add music to a PP slide type video? Sell them for $7. Then in version 2 you can get the video course ready.

    By doing something short and sweet and then marketing the heck out of it you will know whether you are on to something or not and can build or abandon from there. You won't have invested a lot of time or money writing a 30 page report on a very tight subject.

    4. You mentioned the course being unknown territory that you had no clue about and weren't going to go there. Isn't the exercise stuff unknown too? You don't have one buyer. You have a couple friends that thought it was a good idea. You have no proof. You are having trouble finding good keywords.

    Don't say one is unknown and you aren't going to chance it while the other is unknown too and a huge chance. That just doesn't make logical sense. Find another reason like you just don't want to do a course, perhaps, but don't argue out of both sides of your mouth.

    5. Regarding Kay's comment: It's ALWAYS your or my fault/responsibility when we do something that goes wrong in some way and then we don't follow up or make the proper adjustments.

    It's not Google's fault. It's not the customer's Internet. It's not EZA. It's not the forum software. It is you. Now some things we can't control but even then we have to learn to adapt and change or we die. Period. I'm just pointing that out because even though you have made some changes lately in how you discuss, for example, the EZA problem you still have a lot of victim thinking.

    6. $5 an hour for 20 hours a week (less than a day and a half of your current work schedule) = $100. Do that 5 times in the next week (or month) and you've doubled your earnings for the entire year.

    I know from personal experience how hard it is to purposefully and happily accept a much lower wage, but sometimes that is exactly what we need to do. 100 hours of work = 7.14 days of work at 14 hours a day and you can make $500 a month and then have 20+ days left to do the other stuff but you have a little money coming in in the mean time.

    Broke and desperate but "menial" work not being worth our time just doesn't equate somehow.

    Looks like things are starting to take shape. Keep it up!
    Mark
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      A couple things you may want to think about:

      1. You should know (but most people don't because they think the WSO forum is a the magic money tree) that just listing a WSO doesn't do a lot of good. You need to figure out how to market it. You need to be tweaking the offer, contacting potential affiliates (people you did business with before), and otherwise be getting the word out. Most of us have learned that the hard way. It may have been easy for you before because you had an active list and were active in the community but you haven't been for awhile now.

      2. Speaking of forum complaints, when people start talking about scammers in the WSO forum and how it needs to be fixed, those of us that try to bring common sense to the subject often suggest that before a WSO is bought that the potential buyer checks out the seller's reputation on the forum by looking at past posts. You probably need to ask yourself what will they see the last year?

      If it puts you in a bad light (rightfully or wrongfully) you may need to change that perception by being and posting positive, helpful things. The negative to positive ratio is waaaaaaay on the wrong side even though it looks like things are turning around.

      3. You mentioned that the music course would take all your time. Why? If you want to do something like that why not do a 30 page (you should be able to finish in about 10 minutes at your writing speed) report about the basics of using Audacity let's say to add music to your video. What about another 30 pages about how to add music to a PP slide type video? Sell them for $7. Then in version 2 you can get the video course ready.

      By doing something short and sweet and then marketing the heck out of it you will know whether you are on to something or not and can build or abandon from there. You won't have invested a lot of time or money writing a 30 page report on a very tight subject.

      4. You mentioned the course being unknown territory that you had no clue about and weren't going to go there. Isn't the exercise stuff unknown too? You don't have one buyer. You have a couple friends that thought it was a good idea. You have no proof. You are having trouble finding good keywords.

      Don't say one is unknown and you aren't going to chance it while the other is unknown too and a huge chance. That just doesn't make logical sense. Find another reason like you just don't want to do a course, perhaps, but don't argue out of both sides of your mouth.

      5. Regarding Kay's comment: It's ALWAYS your or my fault/responsibility when we do something that goes wrong in some way and then we don't follow up or make the proper adjustments.

      It's not Google's fault. It's not the customer's Internet. It's not EZA. It's not the forum software. It is you. Now some things we can't control but even then we have to learn to adapt and change or we die. Period. I'm just pointing that out because even though you have made some changes lately in how you discuss, for example, the EZA problem you still have a lot of victim thinking.

      6. $5 an hour for 20 hours a week (less than a day and a half of your current work schedule) = $100. Do that 5 times in the next week (or month) and you've doubled your earnings for the entire year.

      I know from personal experience how hard it is to purposefully and happily accept a much lower wage, but sometimes that is exactly what we need to do. 100 hours of work = 7.14 days of work at 14 hours a day and you can make $500 a month and then have 20+ days left to do the other stuff but you have a little money coming in in the mean time.

      Broke and desperate but "menial" work not being worth our time just doesn't equate somehow.

      Looks like things are starting to take shape. Keep it up!
      Mark
      When you're right, you're right. I have been my own worst enemy these past 2 years. A lot of it was out of anger that after all the years and all the work I put it that suddenly, because of Google, my business was destroyed. Yeah, I was angry.

      But you're right. It was up to me to adapt and change and find a way to make it work. I didn't do that. I kept beating my head against a brick wall doing the same thing over and over even though I could see that it was no longer working. I kept saying "It's only temporary. It'll turn around."

      It never did.

      I've had to eat a lot of crow since coming back here and that hasn't been easy either. I had a big mouth at one time and talked real tough because I was sooooo successful.

      Maybe all this was just payback.

      Anyway, I'm turning my life around. People are telling me to do things and I'm actually listening to them even though I'm not 100% sure that everything I'm doing is the right thing. But I'm trusting that these people are seeing things clearer than I am right now so I'm putting my trust in them.

      Right now, my sales page for the purchase product is complete. Next, I have to work on the upsell page for the membership site.

      Honestly, I have no idea how to do this...yet.

      Midnight Oil gave me a link to Clickbank Pitch Plus that looks like it will solve my problem. I have to now learn how to integrate it into the sales process. The learning curve on a lot of what I'm doing is really slowing me up. I used to be able to crank out a massive product in 3 days. Now it's taking me that long just to get a sales page together. I'm not used to being so inept.

      And yes, I have a lot of PR to do on my image around here, if it's even salvageable. If not, plenty of people have made it without ever having come here. If that's what I have to do, I'll do it. Sure, it would be great to have a rep here again but I can't cry over spilt milk. All I can do is move forward and do better. Today, I participated in Main Discussion trying to help a couple of folks. If I do that daily, maybe it will matter again someday. If not, like I said, others have made it without the WF. I'll be fine either way.

      I have another 2.5 hours of work to do tonight. I'm going to be spending it learning Pitch Plus. If it turns out to be more difficult that I can handle, I'll come here and ask for help.

      A few people here today have been really wonderful. I've given nobody any reason to give a crap about me anymore and yet some here still do. That says a lot about the members here and why I ultimately keep coming back to this forum. Somehow I know that if somebody really needs help, the membership won't let them down.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        This is why I never did upsells before.

        Here's a sample code that, if I'm understanding correctly, has to go on my upsell page.

        <script type="text/javascript">
        function toggleAccept() {
        var acceptLink = document.getElementById("accept");
        var agreeCheckbox = document.getElementById("agreeCheckbox");
        if (agreeCheckbox.checked) {
        acceptLink.onclick=function() {
        window.location=this.href + "&cbrblaccpt=true";
        return false;
        }
        } else {
        acceptLink.onclick=function() {
        mustAccept();
        return false;
        }
        }
        }
        function mustAccept() {
        window.alert("By clicking accept, you agree to the payment terms of this recurring product.");
        }
        cbrblaccpt

        </script>

        It appears to be a generic code (I don't see anything in it that's vendor specific) but I have n idea where it's supposed to go or how to get it there. There are no instructions on the Clickbank site on how to do this. All it says is that this info needs to be passed on a recurring upsell.

        It would be nice if there was a video or something showing how to do this.

        Does anybody have experience with this functionality who can help me?
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        • Profile picture of the author Tom B
          Banned
          Steven, put it at the bottom of your html page within the Body tags. I assume you have an agree checkbox somewhere on the html page.
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

            Steven, put it at the bottom of your html page within the Body tags. I assume you have an agree checkbox somewhere on the html page.
            Thomas, the problem I'm having is I'm using Optimize Press page builder so I'm just doing the WYSIWYG thing. I guess I could try using the "Insert HTML" function that they give when I get to the bottom and see if that works, but this is javascript. Isn't that different from regular HTML?
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            • Profile picture of the author Tom B
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

              Thomas, the problem I'm having is I'm using Optimize Press page builder so I'm just doing the WYSIWYG thing. I guess I could try using the "Insert HTML" function that they give when I get to the bottom and see if that works, but this is javascript. Isn't that different from regular HTML?
              Which version of optimize press?

              Javascript isn't html but will be dispersed throughout the html, ie within the body tags of a html document. This is just a function that requires the customer to check that they accept that this is a recurring payment.

              You can try it where you add the html and test the page out by clicking the Accept button and see if a message pops up saying that it is a recurring fee.
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              • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                Which version of optimize press?

                Javascript isn't html but will be dispersed throughout the html, ie within the body tags of a html document. This is just a function that requires the customer to check that they accept that this is a recurring payment.

                You can try it where you add the html and test the page out by clicking the Accept button and see if a message pops up saying that it is a recurring fee.
                I'm using (v 2.2.2.1).

                I'll try adding it the same way I added regular HTML and see what happens.
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                • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                  I'm using (v 2.2.2.1).

                  I'll try adding it the same way I added regular HTML and see what happens.
                  Did you insert the form with the checkbox? Try putting it right after that.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                    Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                    Did you insert the form with the checkbox? Try putting it right after that.
                    Sorry Thomas. Don't have any form with checkbox. I just have an upsell page with some text and at the bottom I'm going to insert the payment link and then under that I'm going to insert the javascript code.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                      Sorry Thomas. Don't have any form with checkbox. I just have an upsell page with some text and at the bottom I'm going to insert the payment link and then under that I'm going to insert the javascript code.
                      The form is probably the payment link that should have a checkbox that the user clicks to make sure they know it's a recurring payment.

                      You're becoming a "brogrammer" now.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                        Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                        The form is probably the payment link that should have a checkbox that the user clicks to make sure they know it's a recurring payment.

                        You're becoming a "brogrammer" now.
                        I'm getting a headache now. LOL.

                        I'm putting this aside for tonight and will go back to it tomorrow. My brain is friend and I'm only going to make mistakes from here on out.

                        I have to rewatch the Optimize Members videos to see how to set up the membership payment and signup process. It's a bit complex and after one viewing I don't remember it at all.

                        At least the main sales page is done. I should be able to submit everything to Clickbank for approval by Friday. At least that's what I'm shooting for.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                          Banned
                          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                          I'm getting a headache now. LOL.

                          I'm putting this aside for tonight and will go back to it tomorrow. My brain is friend and I'm only going to make mistakes from here on out.
                          .
                          ha! Welcome to my world. I have been trying to get this new software program done for months and it keeps messing with me.

                          Definitely take a break. I tend to be stubborn and try to work through these types of problems. I never figure them out until I take a break and the solution is staring right at me when I log in the next day.

                          I want to grow my hair back so I can pull it out sometimes.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Lance K
                            Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                            I want to grow my hair back so I can pull it out sometimes.
                            More material for the next off topic forum quotes video.
                            Signature
                            "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
                            ~ Zig Ziglar
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          • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            In either case, there is nothing I can do about it. I can't delete comments on the thread. So if it looks abandoned, it looks abandoned. I'd like to think that somebody will actually read the copy before they start reading replies but who knows.

            Anyway, it's out of my hands.

            Why do you give up so easily? Just report the post and tell the mod the buy button works and ask them to remove the post.
            Signature

            Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
              Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

              Why do you give up so easily? Just report the post and tell the mod the buy button works and ask them to remove the post.
              I took Kay's advice and made a post that the links are fine.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    Not just a monthly fee but a $60 monthly fee. If the WA still existed with the expectations around here these days, for $60 a month Allen would have to personally visit each member's home for a full day of 1-1 training or it would be labeled a scam.

    Mark
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Okay, I've figured out this much. I have 3 compatibility issues that I am battling with.

      1) DLGuard 4.5
      2) Optimize Member
      3) Clickbank Pitch Plus

      I did some research and DLGuard 4.5 doesn't work with Pitch Plus without doing some modifications to the Clickbank URL in DLGuard itself. This is the last thing I want to mess with.

      Possible issues between Optimize Member and Pitch Plus as I don't see any specific fields in Optimize Member related to Pitch Plus.

      I am so stuck right now I am thinking of just forgetting about using Pitch Plus and just offer everything on the main sales page. Yes, they will have to return to it in order to get the additional membership but right now I have no idea how to fix this mess without driving myself crazy.

      Right now, after doing a test purchase, I can't get the original pitch page to send me to the upsell page. I have setup everything according to Clickbank's instructions so it has to be a problem with the page setup and/or the incompatibilities between the programs.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    Don't let these little frustrations derail your progress and I think you are making progress even if it feels like you are getting nowhere fast. Keep it rolling!

    Mark
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  • Profile picture of the author George Wright
    Steven,

    Check out Premium Web Cart. Take a hard look at the $200 a month plan. The first month is free, (you have to try to leave the payment page to get the Free month) a few sales and you've paid the 2nd month.

    George Wright
    Signature
    "The first chapter sells the book; the last chapter sells the next book." Mickey Spillane
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by George Wright View Post

      Steven,

      Check out Premium Web Cart. Take a hard look at the $200 a month plan. The first month is free, (you have to try to leave the payment page to get the Free month) a few sales and you've paid the 2nd month.

      George Wright
      Thanks George but I don't have $200 a month to pay for anything right now. Maybe after I start making some money and that kind of outlay isn't a huge chunk out of my earnings which right now has totaled about $500 for the whole year.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        Steven -

        There's a freebie in the War Room that might be useful as you have said getting traffic is a problem.

        http://www.warriorforum.com/war-room...ingertips.html
        Signature
        Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.

        I wish offended people would react like fainting goats and quietly tip over.
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          Steven -

          There's a freebie in the War Room that might be useful as you have said getting traffic is a problem.

          http://www.warriorforum.com/war-room...ingertips.html
          Thanks Kay, I will definitely check it out.

          I just wanted to give everybody a very hopeful update.

          I have two people (one of whom asked not to mention their name) offer to help me. One of them who I can mention is Sam from DLGuard. I got the update but it blew up my system. However, I know Sam will get this fixed in a day or so. From what I'm reading, it's simple PHP code that PHP 5.4 no longer supports. Once that's removed, I'll be fine.

          In the meantime, the sales page and the membership registration process are complete and working seamlessly. I just have to do some cosmetic stuff on the members pages and figure out why I can't link a download via the URL option. It seems to be hanging and when I try to access the download, I get a 404 error. So I just put in a support ticket to Optimize Press. I am sure they will get back to me soon with a solution.

          I am this close to getting this all done and ready for Clickbank approval. After that, I can test the Pitch Plus process. I am confident that with my new attitude, thanks to all the people who have showed me that they really care, that process will go smoothly and any problems I run into will be easily resolved.

          On August 25, my wife and I will be celebrating 30 years of marriage. When that day comes, I want to be able to look her in the eye and say "Look what I've accomplished." I know I can do it.

          I have been very defensive about a lot of the comments made, not to hurt me, but to help me. I was just too pig headed to realize that. I deserved everything I got and then some. A good person here made me realize that I can be defensive, hurt, angry or whatever and none of that is going to change my situation any. This person made me realize that if I keep going on the way I'm going, what I fear most (ending up on the street) is going to happen unless I get a major attitude adjustment. And that means to stop making excuses for my past. I can blame my mother, my father and anybody else I want for how screwed up I am, but I'm the only person who can fix it.

          To everybody whose heads I bit off when they tried to help me, I'm sorry. I don't expect you to believe that or even care, but I am. And I am going to change. In fact, that change is already starting. No more excuses. I have a plan and I'm going to execute it. That doesn't mean I'm going to do everything that everybody tells me to do. I still have to decide what is and what isn't a good business decision.

          But I have to be able to recognize that on my own. I can't come crying to people here asking them what I should do. If I have a technical problem, that's one thing. But to come here asking "should I do this or do that" is nonsense. By now, I should have enough smarts and confidence in my ability to figure this out on my own. Like I said, I have a plan and I'm going to execute it.

          If it happens to be less viable than I expected, well, at least I tried. And if that plan doesn't work, then I'll move onto the next one. And I'll keep working until something sticks, just like I did back in 2003 when it took me 3 years to finally make it.

          I did it once. I can do it again.

          Thanks to all of you (yes, you too Kay) for giving me the kick in the ass and the tough love that I needed.
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            Kay, I downloaded the 500 traffic sources. When I'm ready to start promoting, I'm going to go through this with a fine tooth comb. Thanks again for making me aware of this.
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            Steven - When you joined the WF and posted 80 times in one day (with an attitude of 'I'm here now so I'll tell you how do this')....I was the first person to say "give the guy a chance".

            I will continue to kick you in the butt when you act like an ass. Deal with it

            Congratulations on 30 years of marriage - that's an amazing accomplishment! Make the day a celebration of "what we've done together".
            Signature
            Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.

            I wish offended people would react like fainting goats and quietly tip over.
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            • Profile picture of the author discrat
              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

              Steven - When you joined the WF and posted 80 times in one day

              Holy sh*T !!
              Were you on Meth or what ?
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              • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                Holy sh*T !!
                Were you on Meth or what ?
                I wish. No, just a raving lunatic.
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                • Profile picture of the author Nate Simms
                  Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                  I wish. No, just a raving lunatic.
                  Taking meth and being a raving lunatic are kinda one in the same, no?
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                  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                    Originally Posted by Nate Simms View Post

                    Taking meth and being a raving lunatic are kinda one in the same, no?
                    Since I never took drugs I wouldn't know, but I'll take your word for it. LOL

                    Just a quick update folks.

                    Amazon S3 just called me back and my monthly bill for S3 will be all of $23. So I'm going to use that for storing my data. I don't want to lose my hosting because of bandwidth problems with this venture. So that's all settled too.

                    Slowly but surely it's all starting to come together. Just waiting for DLGuard and Optimize Press support to get back to me.
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  • Profile picture of the author George Wright
    Hi Steven,

    I'm going to stick my neck out here and say again, you should try out Premium Web Cart.

    It's an all in one solution for you. Store front, Membership management, Payment portal, Subscription Management, Auto Responder and a lot more.

    Here is why I'm being so persistent. You set it up and the day to day running of it is hands free, leaving you time to create music and other content plus...

    1. The first month is free so if this doesn't work you lose nothing except some time and you don't have to spend hours setting it up because you could simply upload 100 tracks or so at first. This all could be done this evening.

    2. If this works it remains "free" (my fuzzy definition of "free" is nothing out of pocket)

    Here's the plan.

    Sign up for the free trial. Usually the trial is $5, however when you get down to "time to pay," and start to leave the page the nice lady comes up and says "I'll pay this for you."

    Now in a matter of two or three hours to set up your store, (don't try to make it perfect, perfection will come in a short time. For now just get it set up) set up subscription prices, hook up to PayPal and upload your tracks you are ready to go.

    Then you come here to the good 'ol WF and market the mess out of your new membership site. You shout it in your sig. You run a WSO etc. and here is what you sell.

    FOUNDER'S MEMBERSHIP! Become a founding member of _____________ and here is what you get.

    Unlimited Downloads of music and a TON of other stuff.

    Throw in a ton of your already written PLR Material and eBooks, write a few more fresh articles every month (we all know you can do that) give away the store to "Founding Members."

    Limit the Founding Members to 50, After 50 Members the door is shut forever.

    Price it so it will be hard to turn down, (I'd buy it, now you have 49 to go)

    $5 a month x 50 members = $250 a month, enough to pay your monthly Web Cart bill while you take a deep breath and figure out your next marketing strategy.

    If it works it costs you nothing and you are in business. If it dosn't work you scrap it and it still cost you nothing.

    If you have members but not enough to support the web cart simply move them to your back up plan i.e. download from amazon through your existing website.

    With this you need no other storage or hosting or anything because it's all inclusive.

    Of course you can play with my numbers above, $10 a month and you need 25 founders, 100 founders and you are making $1000 a month etc. etc.

    Over and Out,

    George Wright
    Signature
    "The first chapter sells the book; the last chapter sells the next book." Mickey Spillane
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by George Wright View Post

      Hi Steven,

      I'm going to stick my neck out here and say again, you should try out Premium Web Cart.

      It's an all in one solution for you. Store front, Membership management, Payment portal, Subscription Management, Auto Responder and a lot more.

      Here is why I'm being so persistent. You set it up and the day to day running of it is hands free, leaving you time to create music and other content plus...

      1. The first month is free so if this doesn't work you lose nothing except some time and you don't have to spend hours setting it up because you could simply upload 100 tracks or so at first. This all could be done this evening.

      2. If this works it remains "free" (my fuzzy definition of "free" is nothing out of pocket)

      Here's the plan.

      Sign up for the free trial. Usually the trial is $5, however when you get down to "time to pay," and start to leave the page the nice lady comes up and says "I'll pay this for you."

      Now in a matter of two or three hours to set up your store, (don't try to make it perfect, perfection will come in a short time. For now just get it set up) set up subscription prices, hook up to PayPal and upload your tracks you are ready to go.

      Then you come here to the good 'ol WF and market the mess out of your new membership site. You shout it in your sig. You run a WSO etc. and here is what you sell.

      FOUNDER'S MEMBERSHIP! Become a founding member of _____________ and here is what you get.

      Unlimited Downloads of music and a TON of other stuff.

      Throw in a ton of your already written PLR Material and eBooks, write a few more fresh articles every month (we all know you can do that) give away the store to "Founding Members."

      Limit the Founding Members to 50, After 50 Members the door is shut forever.

      Price it so it will be hard to turn down, (I'd buy it, now you have 49 to go)

      $5 a month x 50 members = $250 a month, enough to pay your monthly Web Cart bill while you take a deep breath and figure out your next marketing strategy.

      If it works it costs you nothing and you are in business. If it dosn't work you scrap it and it still cost you nothing.

      If you have members but not enough to support the web cart simply move them to your back up plan i.e. download from amazon through your existing website.

      With this you need no other storage or hosting or anything because it's all inclusive.

      Of course you can play with my numbers above, $10 a month and you need 25 founders, 100 founders and you are making $1000 a month etc. etc.

      Over and Out,

      George Wright
      George, I needed to give this some long hard thought before I responded to you as I promised everybody here that I would be more positive and open minded about things.

      This isn't something you can just jump into. I haven't had a chance to absorb your entire game plan as outlined above (I'll have to read it again) but upon first skim through, it does appear to be at least a bit of work. So if I'm going to do this (I'm not ruling it out) I will have to do some planning first so that I'm not just running there today, signing up and then sitting here saying "Okay, now WTF do I do?"

      So I will seriously consider this after planning out a strategy. Right now I don't quite know what I would do to take advantage of the potential opportunity.

      I will keep you posted on this. In the meantime, I have things that I have to immediately take care of where I do have a clear and definite plan.
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