Are Emotions A Hinderence To The Human Race?

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A question I have pondered over the years.

If we had been a race of Spock's would we have a world anything like we have now, probably not.

But then you might ask, would we have art and music and all those other things that rely on producing an emotional response.

The reproductive system and sexual urges play a significant role in them being there.

They are just biochemical reactions in our brain. Can you purge them though, especially as you get older.

A huge scope for discussion here.

Here's my experience, when youthful I was more emotional than now. I still laugh at things and jokes but they have to be more sophisticated and clever than before. When I argue (have a constructive conversation) with the wife my stance now comes from logic and facts but she brings in more emotional stuff.

One things for sure, impatience is growing, intolerance for inefficiency, ignorance and stupidity. The cantankerous old man syndrome is creeping in. I can step back and watch it happening but still react!

Your thoughts...........
  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

    One things for sure, impatience is growing, intolerance for inefficiency, ignorance and stupidity. The cantankerous old man syndrome is creeping in. I can step back and watch it happening but still react!

    Your thoughts...........
    I have to admit, the question in your thread title is one I've never thought about, but that fact probably isn't too surprising.

    I find I'm actually getting more patient as I get older. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

    One minor observation about emoticons . . . they may be the most intelligent form of expression some people can muster on some topics.

    Edited to add: The trouble with having your eyes get funky as you age is that you can misread things and come across like an idiot because of it. I just now noticed, about two hours after I posted the original message, that the thread title said "emotions" and not "emoticons."

    Apparently I was right that emoticons may be the most intelligent form of expression some people can muster . . . and apparently I'm one of them!
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    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
      Your recent trip to Vulcan and TM training are obviously paying off. :-)
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      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
        Can you purge them though, especially as you get older.
        Purge I'm not sure. What happened to me and most people I know is when young our emotions controlled us, now we control our emotions.
        Emotions are only a hindrance if you let them control you.
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  • Profile picture of the author waterotter
    Void of any emotion can be a scary thing that leads to dangerous/deadly outcomes.
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    • Profile picture of the author Cam Connor
      Originally Posted by waterotter View Post

      Void of any emotion can be a scary thing that leads to dangerous/deadly outcomes.
      Said the emotion of fear...
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      • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
        Originally Posted by Cam Connor View Post

        Said the emotion of fear...
        Really?

        That sounded more like common sense to me.


        Terra
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        • Profile picture of the author Cam Connor
          Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

          Really?

          That sounded more like common sense to me.


          Terra
          It is common sense.

          "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause, and reflect".
          -Mark Twain
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          • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
            Originally Posted by Cam Connor View Post

            It is common sense.

            "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause, and reflect".
            - Oscar Wilde
            Then why did you call it fear?


            Terra
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            • Profile picture of the author Cam Connor
              Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

              Then why did you call it fear?


              Terra
              Most common sense derives from fear. Or "common beliefs" or socially reinforced illusions.
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              • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                Originally Posted by Cam Connor View Post

                Most common sense derives from fear. Or "common beliefs" or socially reinforced illusions.



                "...But here's the catch. Common sense is neither common nor sense. There's not a whole lot of sound judgment going on these days, so it's not common. If common sense was common, then most people wouldn't make the kinds of decisions they do every day. People wouldn't buy stuff they can't afford. They wouldn't smoke cigarettes or eat junk food. They wouldn't gamble. And if you want to get really specific and timely, politicians wouldn't be tweeting pictures of their private parts to strangers. In other words, people wouldn't do the multitude of things that are clearly not good for them...The bottom line is that if we can learn to think in more open and rigorous ways, we can draw the most accurate conclusions and make the best decisions possible for the myriad of questions, concerns, and issues we face every day, be they mundane or impactful. And we might just all get along a little better too." ~ Jim Taylor, Ph.D

                Terra
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                • Profile picture of the author Cam Connor
                  Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                  "...But here's the catch. Common sense is neither common nor sense. There's not a whole lot of sound judgment going on these days, so it's not common. If common sense was common, then most people wouldn't make the kinds of decisions they do every day. People wouldn't buy stuff they can't afford. They wouldn't smoke cigarettes or eat junk food. They wouldn't gamble. And if you want to get really specific and timely, politicians wouldn't be tweeting pictures of their private parts to strangers. In other words, people wouldn't do the multitude of things that are clearly not good for them...The bottom line is that if we can learn to think in more open and rigorous ways, we can draw the most accurate conclusions and make the best decisions possible for the myriad of questions, concerns, and issues we face every day, be they mundane or impactful. And we might just all get along a little better too." ~ Jim Taylor, Ph.D

                  Terra
                  He's talking about actual logic there, not common sense. I was referring to the things which people commonly believe... logical or illogical. The things he listed in that snippet are perfect examples of the problems with emotions, and situations which could've been avoided if people were willing to implore logic.

                  Emotion is primitive, reactionary, it comes from a more primal part of our brain. Logic comes from the MOST evolved part of our brain. The neo-cortex.
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          • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
            Originally Posted by Cam Connor View Post

            It is common sense.

            "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause, and reflect".
            - Oscar Wilde
            It's actually Twain.
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            • Profile picture of the author Cam Connor
              Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

              It's actually Twain.
              Fixed. Not sure why I was thinking it was Oscar Wilde.
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by Cam Connor View Post

            It is common sense.

            "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause, and reflect".
            -Mark Twain

            It was actually said by Oscar Wilde. It's a common mistake. Riffle makes it all the time.
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            • Profile picture of the author Cam Connor
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              It was actually said by Oscar Wilde. It's a common mistake. Riffle makes it all the time.
              "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause, and reflect".
              - Oscar Wilde and/or Mark Twain
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              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                Originally Posted by Cam Connor View Post

                "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause, and reflect".
                - Oscar Wilde and/or Mark Twain
                It was actually H. L. Mencken.
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                • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  It was actually H. L. Mencken.
                  It's Twain, but Mencken always liked to take credit for it. Typical for a man of his ideology...
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                  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                    Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

                    It's Twain, but Mencken always liked to take credit for it. Typical for a man of his ideology...

                    Twain was an effeminate prototype of Colonel Sanders. With his elevator shoes and scraggly goatee. Twain would be nothing without trying to emulate the massive brain of the intellectual hero...H. L. Mencken.

                    Twain lived in Mencken's shadow, never becoming an original writer. Always stealing Mencken's best lines.

                    If you look at Twain's headstone, it reads "Almost as good as H. L. Mencken. But not quite".

                    My favorite quote from Mencken is "Even if you don't have a massive brain like me, a goatee will cover up a weak girly chin".

                    Of course, this is translated from Sanskrit. (Mencken was so brilliant, he always wrote in Sanskrit)


                    Originally Posted by Cam Connor View Post

                    Fixed. Not sure why I was thinking it was Oscar Wilde.
                    You were thinking of Riffle. They share the same fashion sense.
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                    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                      Twain was an effeminate prototype of Colonel Sanders. With his elevator shoes and scraggly goatee. Twain would be nothing without trying to emulate the massive brain of the intellectual hero...H. L. Mencken.

                      Twain lived in Mencken's shadow, never becoming an original writer. Always stealing Mencken's best lines.

                      If you look at Twain's headstone, it reads "Almost as good as H. L. Mencken. But not quite".

                      My favorite quote from Mencken is "Even if you don't have a massive brain like me, a goatee will cover up a weak girly chin".

                      Of course, this is translated from Sanskrit. (Mencken was so brilliant, he always wrote in Sanskrit)

                      I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living, it's a way of looking at life through the wrong end of a telescope. Which is what I do, and that enables you to laugh at life's realities. ~ Dr. Seuss

                      Since we're quoting and all.


                      Terra
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                      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                        Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                        I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living, it's a way of looking at life through the wrong end of a telescope. Which is what I do, and that enables you to laugh at life's realities. ~ Dr. Seuss

                        Since we're quoting and all.


                        Terra

                        Terra; Perhaps the single most appropriate quote of all time. Thank you, pretty lady.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Cam Connor
                        Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                        I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living, it's a way of looking at life through the wrong end of a telescope. Which is what I do, and that enables you to laugh at life's realities. ~ Dr. Seuss

                        Since we're quoting and all.


                        Terra
                        Gotta love Dr. Seuess. Great quote Miss Terra.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                          Originally Posted by Cam Connor View Post

                          Gotta love Dr. Seuess. Great quote Miss Terra.
                          Sorry, that quote is from H L Mencken.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Cam Connor
                            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                            Sorry, that quote is from H L Mencken.
                            A common mistake, that one's also from Oscar Wilde and/or Mark Twain...
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                          • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                            Sorry, that quote is from H L Mencken.
                            Sorry Claude, but that quote is actually from H L Mencken.

                            Dan says he takes credit for other people's quotes so he obviously is the one who said, "Sorry, that quote is from H L Mencken."


                            Terra
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                        • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                          Originally Posted by Cam Connor View Post

                          Gotta love Dr. Seuess. Great quote Miss Terra.
                          Oh yeah! I love me some Dr. Seuss!
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

    One things for sure, impatience is growing, intolerance for inefficiency, ignorance and stupidity. The cantankerous old man syndrome is creeping in. I can step back and watch it happening but still react!.
    The above statement is a LIE! If it were true, we would have over 50% of the worlds population locked up in jails, or executed. Inefficiency, ignorance and stupidity is growing SO fast that we almost EXPECT it, and have laws and laxed enforcement to tolerate it MORE!

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author lcombs
    For the record, Vulcans do have emotions.
    They are taught how to control them.

    Without emotions, we aren't human.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
    Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

    ... and all those other things that rely on producing an emotional response.
    Hmmm... if people weren't incumbered with emotional responses, like maybe fight-or-flight?

    I'm thinking that the DNA of the last human would be found in a prehistoric tiger-turd somewhere in East Africa.

    Just seems logical to me.

    Joe Mobley
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  • Profile picture of the author ZephyrIon
    Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

    A question I have pondered over the years.

    If we had been a race of Spock's would we have a world anything like we have now, probably not.

    But then you might ask, would we have art and music and all those other things that rely on producing an emotional response.

    The reproductive system and sexual urges play a significant role in them being there.

    They are just biochemical reactions in our brain. Can you purge them though, especially as you get older.

    A huge scope for discussion here.

    Here's my experience, when youthful I was more emotional than now. I still laugh at things and jokes but they have to be more sophisticated and clever than before. When I argue (have a constructive conversation) with the wife my stance now comes from logic and facts but she brings in more emotional stuff.

    One things for sure, impatience is growing, intolerance for inefficiency, ignorance and stupidity. The cantankerous old man syndrome is creeping in. I can step back and watch it happening but still react!

    Your thoughts...........
    Carl Jung refers to ridding of emotions as carefully amputating the shadow of human nature which is your invisible human animal tail.

    You can't become emotionless though you'll end up in prison.
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  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

    A question I have pondered over the years.

    If we had been a race of Spock's would we have a world anything like we have now, probably not.

    But then you might ask, would we have art and music and all those other things that rely on producing an emotional response.

    The reproductive system and sexual urges play a significant role in them being there.

    They are just biochemical reactions in our brain. Can you purge them though, especially as you get older.

    A huge scope for discussion here.

    Here's my experience, when youthful I was more emotional than now. I still laugh at things and jokes but they have to be more sophisticated and clever than before. When I argue (have a constructive conversation) with the wife my stance now comes from logic and facts but she brings in more emotional stuff.

    One things for sure, impatience is growing, intolerance for inefficiency, ignorance and stupidity. The cantankerous old man syndrome is creeping in. I can step back and watch it happening but still react!

    Your thoughts...........
    I don't know for sure. (There. Now I can say anything I like, and I have an "Out")

    There is a difference between drives and emotions. The brain stem and "reptile brain" give us our drives, fight, flight, sex, hunger, territory, social hierarchy, the need for games, war, and the urge to dominate others.

    I'm assuming by "emotions", you mean love, anger, desire to help others, sense of community, parental love, that sort of thing.

    I know something about this. I process my emotions (such as they are) through a different part of the brain. Most people process their emotions through the medial cortex. I process them through the cerebral cortex. (at least a PET scan told my doctor this).

    So I either have more insight into this...or less. Not sure.

    See, you can take care of your children, provide them with everything they need to succeed, but not love them. Not all parents love their children. Plenty of marriages are successful, and they don't love each other. (although I can't see where that would be a fun way to live)

    In a large enough society, you may not need emotions to live successfully. But I don't know if a society would form in the first place, without the emotional bonds that cause us to group.

    Have you ever cried because something was so beautiful? a song, sunset, piece of art?
    Is that emotional? or is it just a deep appreciation for the complexity of what you experience. I don't know.


    You cannot purge emotions, because you cannot will yourself to stop using a third of your brain. But I think, as you get wiser, you stop relying on them so much to make decisions. It isn't a question I've studied. A subject I've studied is what emotions are.....because I was trying to determine if my responses were emotional...or intellectual. For example, I love my wife dearly. But I don't know if it's the same thing as other people mean, when they say they love someone. After serious study, I suspect not.
    I cry during tender scenes in movies....but I'm not sure if I know why. And I get angry, but it isn't precisely like what others feel. At least it isn't what others say they feel.
    So, am I feeling emotion? Maybe. Or maybe it's just the image of an emotion.

    Is ambition an emotion, or a base drive?
    How about altruism? Is a drive a feeling you have all the time, and an emotion, something you experience more selectively?

    I know that emotional displays (arguments, anger, crying) are almost universally unattractive to me. Employees very quickly learned that I wasn't a shoulder to cry on. But that doesn't mean they aren't useful.

    I used to be married to a very highly emotional woman, who wasn't stupid, but not very educated. It was seven years of hell, for both of us. To her, I was a very cold calculating business person that never responded to her emotional displays. To me, she was insane.
    But she wasn't clinically insane. It was just that the emotional difference between us was far too great to sustain a relationship.

    I think emotions can cloud judgement. But I think emotion is also why we do many good and bad things that we do.

    Anyway, I don't know if any of that is useful.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Interesting yeah, vulcans are VERY emotional! They almost destroyed their entire society! Every 7 years, IIRC, they MUST have some sexual relations. They are obviously given to many things. They are specist, for example. Typically, they consider almost all beneath them. They are driven by their society to view needless emotions as an inferior trait. Those considering themselves the BEST are to consider acheivement of Kolinahr to be PARAMOUNT!

    As for human emotions, it is interesting that at least one above listed some "emotions" I NEVER had! I would NEVER want! THEY are the kinds of things that nearly destroyed vulcan, and threaten THIS planet EVERY DAY! Just TODAY, in the news, an EGYPTIAN court BANNED a group that wants such a thing EVEN as a similar group, in PAKISTAN is fighting to gain a foothold.

    As for what ***I*** would consider emotions and whether they are good or bad? Even LOVE has been both the BEST and the WORST emotion. It has helped and hurt good and bad. And HATE can be a good emotion in the same way. Jealousy, properly applied, is a GOOD emotion. If you see a trait or achievement that another has had, it may move you to strive to similar or greater peeks, and that may be a good thing. It is ONLY bad if it leads to hatred of them, or causes you to do them ill.

    So YEAH, emotions have helped and hurt. FEAR has built heroes and caused cowardly turncoats.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Dennis - I'd swear it said "emoticons" originally. I saw it, too - and wondered how emoticons could be important

      Emotions are the extremes - the highs and lows. They can lead us to being our worst selves - or lift us up and make us shine.

      Fear and anger are more than balanced by compassion and love. Perhaps most important is the stepchild of emotion - guilt - that sometimes keeps us on course or at least out of the ditch.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        Dennis - I'd swear it said "emoticons" originally. I saw it, too - and wondered how emoticons could be important
        OK, so now two of us thought we saw "emoticon" in the title. Fess up, lanfear, did you originally post emoticon by mistake and then correct it?

        Enquiring minds . . . and people who are questioning their sanity want to know.
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        • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
          Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

          OK, so now two of us thought we saw "emoticon" in the title. Fess up, lanfear, did you originally post emoticon by mistake and then correct it?

          Enquiring minds . . . and people who are questioning their sanity want to know.
          No change was ever made to the original subject line of the thread. It was always Emoticons as it is now.!

          Seriously though, no, was always "emotions" in the subject line, never changed it.
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          • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
            Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

            No change was ever made to the original subject line of the thread. It was always Emoticons as it is now.!

            Seriously though, no, was always "emotions" in the subject line, never changed it.
            It is as I first feared then, eye funk.
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          • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
            Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

            A question I have pondered over the years.

            If we had been a race of Spock's would we have a world anything like we have now, probably not.

            But then you might ask, would we have art and music and all those other things that rely on producing an emotional response.

            The reproductive system and sexual urges play a significant role in them being there.

            One things for sure, impatience is growing, intolerance for inefficiency, ignorance and stupidity. The cantankerous old man syndrome is creeping in. I can step back and watch it happening but still react!

            Your thoughts...........
            True, Star Trek has shown time and time again, that being Logical doesn't work, at times!

            If James Kirk didn't use his intuition, then it would have gotten ugly a few times!

            Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

            The above statement is a LIE! If it were true, we would have over 50% of the worlds population locked up in jails, or executed. Inefficiency, ignorance and stupidity is growing SO fast that we almost EXPECT it, and have laws and laxed enforcement to tolerate it MORE!

            Steve
            Yes, we seem to be hearing more stories about some dumb kid or adult who killed their parents or partner, as a response to nagging or a diverse!

            Thankfully most have enough smarts to go to the pub, or holiday!


            Originally Posted by lcombs View Post

            For the record, Vulcans do have emotions.
            They are taught how to control them.

            Without emotions, we aren't human.
            Yep, they control them then go on a lustful, rampage every 7 years!!!! If we were Vulcans the Pum-Far, would have a sizable portion of the population locked up for rape!

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    • Profile picture of the author positivenegative
      Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

      If we had been a race of Spock's would we have a world anything like we have now, probably not.
      .
      Originally Posted by lcombs View Post

      For the record, Vulcans do have emotions. They are taught how to control them.
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      Interesting yeah, vulcans are VERY emotional!

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      • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
        These must be Positivenegative emotions that the earlier poster perceives about Spock.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

          These must be Positivenegative emotions that the earlier poster perceives about Spock.
          It didn't include the FEAR and HATE of pon farr! It didn't include the raised eyebrows of "I'm puzzled, etc". In short, it took a MYTH, and ran with it. All throughout the series, someone talks about them lacking emotion, and the vulcan corrects them. Mccoy even qualifies the statement sometimes. A lot of the society is based on FIGHTING emotion! They disrespect spock because, being half human, they figure HE is more emotional and yet THEY, through that and personal means, often reveal THEIR emotion.

          After all, the 100% logical way would be to judge how he rates against others, RIGHT? And he was BULLIED in school!

          Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author Christian B
            Hello,

            in short: no.

            In long d.ostoievski wrote about that question Are Emotions A Hinderence To The Human Race?

            Let's say that the characters who left their emotions because they wanted to be superior men end badly.

            In World War Z (in the great book, not the shitty movie), there is one character who thinks that emotions are a hinderence. He saves the human race, but he becomes mad because his plan is atrocious.

            And to my mind : animals don't have emotions. Only humans have.
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by Christian B View Post

              And to my mind : animals don't have emotions. Only humans have.
              You don't have a dog.

              And why are we using as evidence, science fiction books and a TV series?
              I don't know how to break this gently, but the characters are only as smart as their writer. The writer isn't a Vulcan, and the writer isn't without emotions. The writer has no idea what it's like to be emotionless.

              At best, the writer is imagining how it would be to be without emotion. And that image is always wrong. Just like an average person, trying to create a character who is a genius...and the writer has never been a genius or met one. To other average people, it makes sense...but to an actual genius, it just sounds silly.
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              • Profile picture of the author Christian B
                You don't have a dog.
                I had dogs, cats and even rats.

                They showed happiness when they saw me. Because they were domestic animals. They were contamined by a human behavior.

                In the wilderness, you don't see animals showing happiness, sadness, pity, ...
                They only do what they must do to survive. Mothers can even kill some of their babies if they have to do it to survive.

                I don't know how to break this gently, but the characters are only as smart as their writer. The writer isn't a Vulcan, and the writer isn't without emotions. The writer has no idea what it's like to be emotionless.

                At best, the writer is imagining how it would be to be without emotion. And that image is always wrong. Just like an average person, trying to create a character who is a genius...and the writer has never been a genius or met one. To other average people, it makes sense...but to an actual genius, it just sounds silly.
                You are wrong.

                You are saying that a writer can't write about something he isn't. I assume you didn't read poems which try to describe the Beauty (even if the author is ugly), or the death (even if the author isn't dead). And a writer, a good writer, can write a true image about something, event if he isn't it.

                Zola wrote about colliers (Germinal), their hard work, ... And when he is dead, thousand of colliers are come to his funerals to worship him. And Zola wasn't a collier, he was a bourgeois.


                But if you want a true testimony : a mafia killer, Iceman or Kuklinski. He can kill without feeling anything. In a documentary, I saw him explain how he killed someone at random, in the street, only to try a new weapon (a crossbow: very effective).

                And, in modern history, there has been a political regime which regarded emotions as useless and tried to create superior emotionless beings. Look for information about Lebensborn, you will see.
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                • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by Christian B View Post

                  Hello,
                  And to my mind : animals don't have emotions. Only humans have.
                  You must not have had a pet that became emotionally attached to you, a family member, or another pet.

                  Originally Posted by Christian B View Post

                  I
                  In the wilderness, you don't see animals showing happiness, sadness, pity, ...
                  They only do what they must do to survive. Mothers can even kill some of their babies if they have to do it to survive.
                  Actually, some animals do show "human like" emotion in the wild.

                  Elephants Mourning

                  Grief in animals: It's arrogant to think we're the only animals who mourn | Psychology Today

                  Unforgettable Elephants - Elephant Emotions | Nature | PBS

                  Cheers

                  -don
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                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                  Originally Posted by Christian B View Post

                  They showed happiness when they saw me. Because they were domestic animals. They were contamined by a human behavior.
                  You mean you don't think dogs in the wild love their puppies? All mammals have emotions. All mammals have the part of the brain where emotions are created.

                  Have you ever watched a group of big cats? Monkeys? Elephants? They show affection, trust, betrayal, greed, real parental love, anger, curiosity....they fight, they make up. And as ForumGuru pointed out, they mourn.

                  They didn't learn emotions from us, we inherited emotions from them.

                  It's simply disturbing to many people to think that other mammals are so much like us.
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              • Profile picture of the author positivenegative
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                You don't have a dog.

                And why are we using as evidence, science fiction books and a TV series?
                Live long and prosper. Woof woof.

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                • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                  Originally Posted by positivenegative View Post

                  Live long and prosper. Woof woof.

                  I think you will find this is Mr Spot
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              • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                Spock of course was just a fictional representation of a man and a a race he represents, perhaps not a perfect choice for this.

                Lets look at it this way, an analogy

                .A big influential leader of a world power (country) takes a look at the world through a totally logical view. He or she see's that the world is grossly overpopulated, sees that the population is causing too much pollution and climate change which may cause a lot of problems within a generation. Also observed is the lack of resources to sustain this size of population. People are fighting over them causing have and have nots

                What are the options considered through a logical diagnostic:

                1) Try to get science to quickly come up with totally clean energy , to make food from enzymes or something. To be able to make new materials from as yet unknown ways that don't deplete the Earths resources.

                The above may or may not be achievable and it's an unknown quantity as to how long it would take to do, therefore, not an option to solve the pretty immediate problem.

                2) Drastically reduce the Earths population within one lifespan. He or she has total proof that reducing the population down to 500 million to 1 billion would mean plenty to go around, pollution would be negligible, resources would be plentiful and the Earth would have some time to regenerate it's food stocks, fish in the sea, tree growth etc. And, it would ensure the survival of the (reduced) human race.

                So how to go about it, release a virus to wipe most of us out, detonate some nukes, whatever. It's a hard line to take but logically the reduction of the world population has to happen and happen soon.

                But no, just because he or she's viewing this with cold hard logic he or she still has emotions, still feels a comradery with fellow humans, still has compassion, does not want to kill anyone, yet, It just must happen!

                So the mammoth task of getting the whole world to listen! Hey, these are the undisputed facts. We must reduce the population quickly. That means only a small percentage from each country can reproduce. The rest of you should not, just have a great life with no children. In some Asian countries this is actually happening. People are electing not to have kids. The population is aging.

                So you see, it was good in this case to look at it in a cold, hard logical way and reach the conclusion of what had to be done but because of our emotional makeup which includes comradery, morality etc, the way to go about it was a more acceptable way.

                That provides perspectives from different angles. It provide options, ways to look at and do things that logic alone cannot provide.

                This is but one example
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                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                  Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                  So how to go about it, release a virus to wipe most of us out, detonate some nukes, whatever. It's a hard line to take but logically the reduction of the world population has to happen and happen soon.

                  But no, just because he or she's viewing this with cold hard logic he or she still has emotions, still feels a comradery with fellow humans, still has compassion, does not want to kill anyone, yet, It just must happen!
                  I got this list of emotions on Wikipedia. Let's use it as a basis for thought.
                  Negative and forceful
                  Anger
                  Annoyance
                  Contempt
                  Disgust
                  Irritation
                  Negative and not in control
                  Anxiety
                  Embarrassment
                  Fear
                  Helplessness
                  Powerlessness
                  Worry
                  Negative thoughts
                  Doubt
                  Envy
                  Frustration
                  Guilt
                  Shame
                  Negative and passive
                  Boredom
                  Despair
                  Disappointment
                  Hurt
                  Sadness
                  Agitation
                  Stress
                  Shock
                  Tension
                  Positive and lively
                  Amusement
                  Delight
                  Elation
                  Excitement
                  Happiness
                  Joy
                  Pleasure
                  Caring
                  Affection
                  Empathy
                  Friendliness
                  Love
                  Positive thoughts
                  Courage
                  Hope
                  Pride
                  Satisfaction
                  Trust
                  Quiet positive
                  Calm
                  Content
                  Relaxed
                  Relieved
                  Serene
                  Reactive
                  Interest
                  Politeness
                  Surprised

                  I see some of these as basic drives, but I'm not an expert. If you took all of these away, you wouldn't have much of a person left, just hard cognition..and maybe instinct.

                  In your example of overpopulation, it would be insane to kill most of the people, to guarantee some survive. It would be more economical, and less stressful (on the remaining population) to just create incentives to have either no children, or one.

                  If that proved unacceptable (Meaning not enough people went along with it), then we would just die on our own, of disease and starvation....creating a livable number of humans. At least, it's something that may happen.

                  There is a huge mistake in the way most see "being unemotional". They think that emotionless people are evil. That cold cognition is evil. That emotional people are good. If you watch any movie involving a genius....they are only redeemable through emotions. It's to make the movie palatable. 'The aliens discover the power of love" is a very popular theme. It feels good. It's the same with scientists. Most people are suspicious of science, and think that people far brighter than they are, must be bad people...or have secretive motives. The "evil genius", is the bad guy...the "Good hearted hero" saves the day.

                  Not having emotions doesn't make you good or evil. It makes you more practical. It helps you see more clearly. The world may not look as bright, or colorful, without an emotional lens to see through...but you still see lines and shapes more clearly. Cause and effect become more obvious. Reasoning is easier and faster.

                  I still have emotions, but they are processed differently. I can see how they work, at least in myself. I'm an observer, as well as a participant. I don't know if you'll get that.

                  For example. I rarely get angry. When I do, part of me is analyzing the process I'm going through. I'm analyzing my choices, and trying to find a resolution. I'm doing all of that, at the same time that I'm just getting angry. And so I never raise my voice in anger, or threaten. Never. I still get angry, but it isn't the emotional turmoil others display.
                  I have a theory as to why this happens, but it applies to so few.

                  Part of this post is in response to a couple that you didn't post. But I thought yours was interesting.

                  Mister Spot. Beautiful.
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                  • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                    I got this list of emotions on Wikipedia. Let's use it as a basis for thought.
                    Negative and forceful
                    Anger
                    Annoyance
                    Contempt
                    Disgust
                    Irritation
                    Negative and not in control
                    Anxiety
                    Embarrassment
                    Fear
                    Helplessness
                    Powerlessness
                    Worry
                    Negative thoughts
                    Doubt
                    Envy
                    Frustration
                    Guilt
                    Shame
                    Negative and passive
                    Boredom
                    Despair
                    Disappointment
                    Hurt
                    Sadness
                    Agitation
                    Stress
                    Shock
                    Tension
                    Positive and lively
                    Amusement
                    Delight
                    Elation
                    Excitement
                    Happiness
                    Joy
                    Pleasure
                    Caring
                    Affection
                    Empathy
                    Friendliness
                    Love
                    Positive thoughts
                    Courage
                    Hope
                    Pride
                    Satisfaction
                    Trust
                    Quiet positive
                    Calm
                    Content
                    Relaxed
                    Relieved
                    Serene
                    Reactive
                    Interest
                    Politeness
                    Surprised

                    I see some of these as basic drives, but I'm not an expert. If you took all of these away, you wouldn't have much of a person left, just hard cognition..and maybe instinct.

                    In your example of overpopulation, it would be insane to kill most of the people, to guarantee some survive. It would be more economical, and less stressful (on the remaining population) to just create incentives to have either no children, or one.

                    If that proved unacceptable (Meaning not enough people went along with it), then we would just die on our own, of disease and starvation....creating a livable number of humans. At least, it's something that may happen.

                    There is a huge mistake in the way most see "being unemotional". They think that emotionless people are evil. That cold cognition is evil. That emotional people are good. If you watch any movie involving a genius....they are only redeemable through emotions. It's to make the movie palatable. 'The aliens discover the power of love" is a very popular theme. It feels good. It's the same with scientists. Most people are suspicious of science, and think that people far brighter than they are, must be bad people...or have secretive motives. The "evil genius", is the bad guy...the "Good hearted hero" saves the day.

                    Not having emotions doesn't make you good or evil. It makes you more practical. It helps you see more clearly. The world may not look as bright, or colorful, without an emotional lens to see through...but you still see lines and shapes more clearly. Cause and effect become more obvious. Reasoning is easier and faster.

                    I still have emotions, but they are processed differently. I can see how they work, at least in myself. I'm an observer, as well as a participant. I don't know if you'll get that.

                    For example. I rarely get angry. When I do, part of me is analyzing the process I'm going through. I'm analyzing my choices, and trying to find a resolution. I'm doing all of that, at the same time that I'm just getting angry. And so I never raise my voice in anger, or threaten. Never. I still get angry, but it isn't the emotional turmoil others display.
                    I have a theory as to why this happens, but it applies to so few.

                    Part of this post is in response to a couple that you didn't post. But I thought yours was interesting.

                    Mister Spot. Beautiful.
                    Interesting what you are saying about being the observer. I get that. I'm thinking one thing (possibly all cool and logical) while a load of emotional sounding crap comes out of my mouth and I'm thinking, why am I saying that, I don't really care or are bothered that much to react that way!

                    You can actually give some used names to this. The totally cool peaceful, logical, passive observer, calm inner self is called the "ID" and the emotional response that comes out is the "EGO" and that's the bio mechanical chemical, nervous energy, body stuff coming into play. Freud coined these terms. ( I went to school with a decendent of his)

                    And you notice that it can take an extreme effort to gain control of of whats coming out. It's like they are totally disassociated with each other, however much you observe them. A mind of its own, for a brief time taking over.

                    Anyway, "Towsers On Stun"
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                    • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
                      I think having emotions and letting them out at appropriate times can be helpful and in some cases healing. Many people suppress their emotions, not because they are the quiet observers like Claude, but because of fear or pride. I think that can often hold a person back.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                      Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                      And you notice that it can take an extreme effort to gain control of of whats coming out. It's like they are totally disassociated with each other, however much you observe them. A mind of its own, for a brief time taking over.

                      Anyway, "Towsers On Stun"
                      You can think about what you are saying, when you are yelling angrily. Because emotions and language are two different activities processed in two different parts of the brain.

                      See, that's where you and I are different. When I get angry, if I raise my voice, it's over in a few seconds, and it's never directed at anyone. The only lasting anger I feel, is that I let myself get angry....if you get my meaning.

                      It takes no effort at all for me to gain control over myself. I think it's because the vast majority of people process their emotions through the medial cortex, and that part of the brain is non-verbal. It's why we can't put into words, what we are feeling. It's why we call it intuition, instead of just thinking.

                      But I process my emotions through the cerebral cortex. And language is also processed there. So, I'm running an inner dialog, talking to myself about why I'm angry, and talking to myself about how to respond.. This all happens in several seconds.

                      It's useful in selling. But early in life, it makes it very difficult to understand why people act the way they do. Yelling, for example, was always a mystery to me growing up. Arguing, in any form....is a sign of mental instability, to me. But most people think of it as a discussion. When I was much younger, and saw something that seemed crazy, I'd have to look around, to see how others were reacting...to know if it's normal behavior.

                      By the way, humor is an intellectual trait, not an emotional one. But many people perceive it as emotional. So I joke with people, and they think I'm a nice guy. But they are perceiving something that isn't really happening.

                      From Bart Simpson; "Set your faces on stun!"
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                      • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                        You can think about what you are saying, when you are yelling angrily. Because emotions and language are two different activities processed in two different parts of the brain.

                        See, that's where you and I are different. When I get angry, if I raise my voice, it's over in a few seconds, and it's never directed at anyone. The only lasting anger I feel, is that I let myself get angry....if you get my meaning.

                        It takes no effort at all for me to gain control over myself. I think it's because the vast majority of people process their emotions through the medial cortex, and that part of the brain is non-verbal. It's why we can't put into words, what we are feeling. It's why we call it intuition, instead of just thinking.

                        But I process my emotions through the cerebral cortex. And language is also processed there. So, I'm running an inner dialog, talking to myself about why I'm angry, and talking to myself about how to respond.. This all happens in several seconds.

                        It's useful in selling. But early in life, it makes it very difficult to understand why people act the way they do. Yelling, for example, was always a mystery to me growing up. Arguing, in any form....is a sign of mental instability, to me. But most people think of it as a discussion. When I was much younger, and saw something that seemed crazy, I'd have to look around, to see how others were reacting...to know if it's normal behavior.

                        By the way, humor is an intellectual trait, not an emotional one. But many people perceive it as emotional. So I joke with people, and they think I'm a nice guy. But they are perceiving something that isn't really happening.

                        From Bart Simpson; "Set your faces on stun!"
                        My outbursts are actually rare and I don't tend to shout. A friend commented being witness to my wife and I having a constructive conversation. Wow, is that it she said, did not last long. If my husband and I disagreed on something like that it would go on for days.

                        Now, what about bottling things up and unleashing them in succession in a While we are at it session I would like to bring half a dozen other things to air! The wife sometimes does that.

                        "Did you know that if the Enterprise was run by dogs then they would be cannibals because they would be eating Bones"
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                        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                          Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post


                          "Did you know that if the Enterprise was run by dogs then they would be cannibals because they would be eating Bones"
                          I still think "Mr. Spot" is about as good as it can get.
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                          • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                            I still think "Mr. Spot" is about as good as it can get.
                            Noo, never, I must top that!!! er, ummmmmmmmm.

                            "Mr Scot is a Scottie Dog"

                            "He's rolling over and playing dead Jim"

                            Errrrrr

                            "The need for a walkies, outweighs the need for a soiled carpet."

                            ummmmmmmmm

                            "I am , and always will be mans best friend"

                            Alright, you win, it was futile to try!
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  • Profile picture of the author elusian
    Emotion has created amazing works of art and pieces of literature. A world without any emotion, I would think would be like living in a black and white film. You would watch life go by but without taste or color or passion.

    On the other hand, I see great merit in learning how to control your emotions - focus them. If you can channel your passions in a specific direction, the possibilities are endless.
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
    Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

    Your thoughts...........
    How would you feel about the topic if emotions didn't exist?


    Originally Posted by Christian B View Post

    I had dogs, cats and even rats.
    It takes extension of an emotion, from yourself to get the feedback....

    There's little love given in response to a cold kipper.
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    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
      Originally Posted by Daniel Evans View Post

      How would you feel about the topic if emotions didn't exist?




      It takes extension of an emotion, from yourself to get the feedback....

      There's little love given in response to a cold kipper.
      There would be no topic to air, no discussion and no forum.
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  • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
    Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

    A question I have pondered over the years.

    If we had been a race of Spock's would we have a world anything like we have now, probably not.

    But then you might ask, would we have art and music and all those other things that rely on producing an emotional response.

    The reproductive system and sexual urges play a significant role in them being there.

    They are just biochemical reactions in our brain. Can you purge them though, especially as you get older.

    A huge scope for discussion here.

    Here's my experience, when youthful I was more emotional than now. I still laugh at things and jokes but they have to be more sophisticated and clever than before. When I argue (have a constructive conversation) with the wife my stance now comes from logic and facts but she brings in more emotional stuff.

    One things for sure, impatience is growing, intolerance for inefficiency, ignorance and stupidity. The cantankerous old man syndrome is creeping in. I can step back and watch it happening but still react!

    Your thoughts...........

    See this post.

    "Mork's Mixed Emotions" fits here too.


    Terra
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Since emotion is actually a department of the mind and emotions are linked to data from all other departments - it's a moot point what we'd be like without them. Nature seemed to think we needed them for survival.

    What I think you are asking is if we need empathy - and yes we do. We can see globally what terrorists who have had their empathy systems suppressed are doing - torturing and slaughtering every living thing that gets in their path. When empathy is lost, society will feed on itself and fall.

    While most of society still has a little bit of empathy - when it comes to not standing for animal or human abuse and murder, there is a lack of empathy becoming very rampant at levels of blaming people for being in terrible living conditions.........and very little rankor against those who have made it possible to crush them.
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