I want my XP Pro back!!

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Well, after numerous messages from Microsoft about my XP Pro operating system, and the fact that my old computer was seven years old, I went down to get a new computer.

It's got Windows 8.1 and Office 2013", the smiling assistant said cheerfully, and like a fool I thought they were good things.

I got the computer home and fired it up, and it started asking me all sorts of personal questions, date of birth etc.

Then I had to get a security code - where do I get that from?, I asked myself plaintively. "Why, we'll send you an SMS" said the screen. Unfortunately, I have no reception where I am (and that's another thing - why can't I get reception in 2014? I'm not exactly in the outback, here on the Gold Coast)

Anyway, after half an hour wasted with all this rubbish, I waited for my familiar old desktop to come up. Instead I got an incomprehensible array of pretty squares where my plain old desktop with its friendly icons used to be.

Never mind, I'll just transfer my files from my old computer, shouldn't be a problem. However, I now find out that can't be done - Windows 8.1 doesn't support the Easy Transfer system, which is a shame, because when my wife upgraded her computer to Windows 7, I was forced to buy a special usb to usb cable - cost me $49, which is now useless. I now have to go and buy a new portable hard drive, copy all my files from my old computer, and paste them into my new one. How old fashioned is that?

Why won't Microsoft allow a simple usb to usb connection? Obviously, the first thing a person wants to do on getting a new computer is to transfer the files from their old computer to the new one.

Never mind, I've got my backup ready, I'll just copy and paste, as they say.

But wait - where's the "My computer icon" gone? Where's the control panel? Where's the time icon in the bottom left hand corner? Where's the white cross in the top right hand corner, to close stuff down?

Where's my Gmail? (one of the steps involved in the aforementioned laborious setup procedure was a requirement that I open an Outlook account for my email. I don't want Outlook!)

My search engine is now Bing - I want Google.
My browser is now MSN - I want Firefox.

Naturally in time I'll find out how to set up all this stuff, but why should I have to? Why do I have to do things Microsoft's way?

Surely as a consumer I have to ask why I can't just duplicate my old computer settings onto my new one with a simple transfer program.

And Google is not blameless either. I was quite happy with iGoogle as my default home page, but Google decided to discontinue, leaving us to flounder around trying to find a replacement. I eventually found it at igHome - Personal Dashboard.

Am I a Luddite? Am I degenerating into the grumpy old men's club on the forum? (You know who you are!) Perhaps we need our own section in the forum where we can moan at everything. Like most old timers on this forum I rarely go into the main forum - this is the first post I've done for ages.

Sorry Warriors - I've has a frustrating day with my new computer, and I felt I had to take it out on someone!
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Welcome to my world! Yeah, Microsoft got to where it was with MSDOS because it rode IBMs coat tails!!!!!! M/S windows got where it was because it seemed to be a kind of smooth transition, and the GUI looked nice, and seemed to make things easier to use. And people figured they could simply LEARN! HA!

    About the time they switched everyone over to windows NT, in 2000, M/S figured they should forget EVERYTHING learned through the millenia, and CHANGE THINGS for CHANGE sake! As I have always said, that is BAD! NOBODY likes change, and for GOOD reason!

    The four changes I think are most apparent and DUMB are:
    1. The REGISTRY! You can no longer simply copy programs, and debugging old binaries is harder.
    2. The SYSTEM LAYOUT! You may have had 50 admin classes in the past, and they are now near WORTHLESS!
    3. Binary support! Many older binaries are no longer supported because it was intentional, or they decided to give up features they provided with NO regard for security.
    4. Overall GUI changes. Look at how OFFICE, for example, has changed. And NOW, v8 and v8.1 have the SAME STUPIDITY in the GUI! Microsoft, GET A CLUE! If I run a program, I want to use THAT program! I DON'T want an overlay to pop up to shut ALL entry down to show me the time and other places I don't want to go. I also DON'T want to be switched to the main "metro icon" screen.

    And that 4th one causes programmers grief. Do they stick with the format developed over more than 35 years that is tried, true, nice, and anyone knowing the pattern, or understanding the language can use? Should they decide to switch to the new stupid format to make it look like Office, where you NEED to know the pattern, or pray for luck?

    BTW M/S DOES support USB/USB. It is just that there are TWO types of USB logic. If you stray from that format(the laptop generally has all HOST, and the other objects are assumed to have the other type), all bets are off. So computer to drive or camera, etc... is OK, but computer to computer isn't automatic. Computer to computer likely needs to be host<->host (AKA peer to peer), and I don't think M/S has drivers for that, so they would have to be included in some way.

    I don't know if your cable is the same as mine, but I once got one for Windows XP. I forget why I got it, but it WAS kind of neat. With the next version of windows. as I recall, it didn't work!

    BTW never trust ANYBODY else with regard to how a computer feels, or how it will help YOU, unless you intimately know how the person uses their computer, and their level, and it is comparable to you.

    In other words, if it is missing the same number of adapters as you are using, or is a different OS, or takes so long to boot, etc.... DON'T TRUST THEM! YOUR experience may be VERY different.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author waterotter
    I feel your pain. I purchased the Surface Pro with Windows 8.1 and I hate it. It's only good for collecting dust!
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  • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
    I'm still on XP Pro on a system I built in 2004 - love it and I don't plan to change any time soon. So far I'm being bullied a bit here and there but I've managed to fight them off. Every internet website works (I've had to move to FF after a decade of resistance but I don't mind it now), I can still open office docs but sometimes I need to ask them to save in .xls and .ppt (I have a converter for docx files so Word opens them up and warns about missing features which I've never missed or noticed) - no biggie and because I don't have an extra heavy brand new operating system to "carry around" my machine (with 4GB of RAM - more than XP Pro can address) still flies enough to get out of my way. Programs open instantly (enough), and I haven't seen a blue screen in over 8 years and haven't caught a virus in over 6 years.

    So far I don't see any reason to move from XP. I'm an MCP and ex PC tech and I've seen no reason to move to a newer operating system. The only reason I upgraded in the early part of this century was because machines kept getting faster but that stopped at XP (except for gaming of course) when the machines got fast enough to not annoy or bother me in my daily duties.

    Even my laptop is on old HP DV9000 (more powerful than my desktop) which I back-graded (using South American drivers) to XP from Vista and that also flies. I feel sorry for you. Hopefully the "make it look old" plugins can help you get a portion of your productivity back. I feel for ya.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    I don't think it matters how adept you are - If there are no security updates to an operating system, you are just plain vulnerable - So maybe you all that are still using XP haven't been hit yet and I hope you never are, but that is the issue not how long you went to school.

    For me I still haven't gotten past being so angry that I can't think because I have two PCs that are nothing but garbage because they are not upgradable even if I wanted to upgrade to the hated Windows 8.1 which I don't. (and one barely ever even used)

    I have now got an ad for a Windows laptop that is actually cheaper than Chromebook - and even though it is, I will still go with Chromebook so I don't have to go with Windows. -(since the laptop is only for emergency use it has to be decent 'just in case' but I don't need to have all the bells and whistles - just internet access.)

    The more I read about 8.1 and the more I am mad at Dell and Microsoft the better Chromebook looks to me.

    I just can't see me learning Ubuntu without someone showing me (hands on).

    It looks like lots of people are getting hip to the 'web pc' - (like Chromebook) -- it's about time to kick windows to the curb whenever at all possible.

    http://www.informationweek.com/mobil...d/d-id/1297921
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    • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
      Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

      I don't think it matters how adept you are - If there are no security updates to an operating system, you are just plain vulnerable - So maybe you all that are still using XP haven't been hit yet and I hope you never are, but that is the issue not how long you went to school.
      Pfft, security updates? If you believe that garbage you're destined to always be at the mercy of panicked marketing departments. Most people I know stopped listening to those fake security warnings at the turn of the century.

      There have been 3rd party tools to keep hackers out long before microsoft's "security updates" stopped. I feel sorry for good folks who believed them and are stuck in a non productive cycle of panic, despair and frustration for nothing. In all my years as a professional computer technician I've never heard of anyone being hacked via one of the "supposed" exploits.

      Securing any system is a walk in the park. You don't need "security updates" to keep you safe. It's a furphy and there will be 3rd party software being created for eons to come as long as there are XP users out here and trust me...we're not going anywhere and XP will be a safe and stable operating system for many many more happy productive, unfrustrating years to come.

      Don't believe the hype.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by Mr Bill View Post

        XP will be a safe and stable operating system for many many more happy productive, unfrustrating years to come.
        So when does that period START!?!?!?!? And you should remove the word MORE, since it isn't right.

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author candoit2
    I bought a new laptop last week. Fired it up, spent 15 min with win 8 and returned it.

    Time to go Mac
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Originally Posted by Mr Bill View Post

    Pfft, security updates? If you believe that garbage you're destined to always be at the mercy of panicked marketing departments. Most people I know stopped listening to those fake security warnings at the turn of the century.

    There have been 3rd party tools to keep hackers out long before microsoft's "security updates" stopped. I feel sorry for good folks who believed them and are stuck in a non productive cycle of panic, despair and frustration for nothing. In all my years as a professional computer technician I've never heard of anyone being hacked via one of the "supposed" exploits.

    Securing any system is a walk in the park. You don't need "security updates" to keep you safe. It's a furphy and there will be 3rd party software being created for eons to come as long as there are XP users out here and trust me...we're not going anywhere and XP will be a safe and stable operating system for many many more happy productive, unfrustrating years to come.

    Don't believe the hype.

    Well Bill I hope you are right - but with all due respect, if you are, then why is it that there are not more things available to the public so that however many gigabillion XP users will know how to shield themselves -

    ... that is what I have been waiting and waiting for and actively searching for (off and on when I get to where I want to do something with those 2 PCs). (it quickly passes).

    So please I mean package it up and sell it. If you have a bullet-proof solution then let sites like ComputerWorld, ZDNet, several different Technical 'magazine's' KNOW, and let them get the word out - you will be a rich guy! LOL.

    Even if that doesn't appeal to you - what good does it do to keep information like that as some kind of tech guy secret???

    Share the wealth, Dude!
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    • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
      Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

      Well Bill I hope you are right - but with all due respect, if you are, then why is it that there are not more things available to the public so that however many gigabillion XP users will know how to shield themselves -

      ... that is what I have been waiting and waiting for and actively searching for (off and on when I get to where I want to do something with those 2 PCs). (it quickly passes).

      So please I mean package it up and sell it. If you have a bullet-proof solution then let sites like ComputerWorld, ZDNet, several different Technical 'magazine's' KNOW, and let them get the word out - you will be a rich guy! LOL.

      Even if that doesn't appeal to you - what good does it do to keep information like that as some kind of tech guy secret???

      Share the wealth, Dude!
      Your sarcasm aside:I know it's difficult to listen to but the reality is that all the people you mentioned above have very strong agendas to push the false belief that a real risk exists for XP users. I don't have my finger on the pulse of every XP computer user's settings but I do have my own extensive experience and I've been at the coal face since 1997 so I know a thing or two about the realities of computer use on a larger scale than most.

      There are no special tools you need. They are already packaged and have been available since last century. The scare campaigns have got (good) folks like you so panicked that you're probably imagining a million hackers are all trying desperately to get into your machine right this very second - they aren't but even if we accept that ghosts actually exist they are not getting through. Not in my experience anyway and like I said; I'm not a casual user. I'm the most intense computer user/fan I've ever met. I'm on here all day every day and have been since Windows 95 and I've seen nothing to be alarmed about that normal every day off the shelf protective suites can't protect me against.

      As for the tools, it's no mystery, a good and updated anti virus suite (I use a good free one that's kept me safe and un-attacked for years), I use a very popular paid Malware protector (I paid a few bucks once, years ago) and I do the occasional scan with Spybot S&D if I suspect anything but it never finds any serious risks. It only ever finds tracking cookies which aren't a security issue as far as I'm aware. I have all these on instant update regimes and I haven't heard a peep from anything for years and years and years.

      So again, I'm not sure what ghosts you're afraid of but I'm very confident that given my personal experience, uncommon knowledge (compared to most users anyway), unequivocal evidence, extreme exposure and massive 3rd party anecdotal history that these ghosts don't really exist and it was just Microsoft pushing trees over then yelling that trees have fallen and we all have to protect ourselves from falling trees.

      I have no security concerns whatsoever and as for performance (except in gaming of course) my XP machine is still faster than any modern OS powered machine I've encountered so far. I'm staying and in my learned and experienced view I see absolutely no reason (let alone evidence) that I "need" to get off XP any time soon.

      The biggest risk is trying to steal free software, music and movies which are just virus delivery systems and in that case I think the thief gets what they deserve - after all they invited them onto their machine - they didn't "exploit" they way in due to any inherent weaknesses in an old robust OS like XP but as far as the big scary "bogy man of exploits: is concerned - I've not seen any personal evidence of such a risk and every OS from Vista onwards has been nothing but a productivity squashing exercise in keeping Microsoft alive and relevant.

      I mean if I'd ever seen anything attractive or useful in any of these new operating systems I might have been tempted to upgrade but I haven't. Each one is worse than the last and it didn't take me long to realise that there's really no reason to ever upgrade unless you want to. Not unless you're a gamer, or there's some new thing that won't work because it needs some feature only found in the newest OS (haven't found anything like that in my life yet) or are unreasonably paranoid. The biggest risk comes from downloading viruses and a new OS won't protect you any better than XP in that case anyway.

      I know it's difficult to ignore their hype but really, I've yet to be convinced that for me any new OS can protect me any better than a well secured XP (I use Pro) installation and I'm not suffering a massive drop in productivity for no good reason. I know that's not what many want to hear but it's the true reality and it pains me to see so much disruption occurring in people's lives for nothing.
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      • Profile picture of the author peter_act
        Well, on reflection perhaps I was a little hasty in my condemnation.

        I got up the morning after that post and resolved to at least give it a chance. I remember when I had to change from my friendly Windows 3.1 to Windows95 (yes, I do go back that far!). I eventually got used to Windows95, and stayed with it throughout the Windows2000 and Windows Millenium disasters until I gave in and upgraded to XP Pro. For once I was happy with a Windows upgrade, and XP Pro has been a steady and reliable companion ever since.

        I only changed because my computer was beginning to creak at the seams, and Windows 8.1 came pre-installed on my new one. (it's got a 1TB drive installed - I remember when I ran a whole company with a 10 meg hard drive - there was a lot of swapping of floppy disks involved!)

        Anyway, I logged on to Youtube, and there I found tutorials showing me where everything was. The white cross to close screens is in fact still there, you just cant see it until'you hover over the top right corner with your mouse. I can;t see how hiding it is an improvement - it hardly took up a lot of screen space. I also found out several 8.1 tweaks, tips and secrets, so now I'm a bit more confident with it. I have to reluctantly admit that there are some things I quite like about 8.1 (There, I said it!)

        I guess my main gripe was that it is a lot of work (two days so far) to get some semblance of order on my PC.

        Is it too much to ask to say to Microsoft "Look, here is my old computer set up just the way I want it - I got there over many years of tweaking things to get it to where it is. I just want to copy what I've got on to my new computer."

        Of course they will say "Windows 8.1 doesn't work the same as XP". (then make it work the same!)

        Well, why can't Windows 8.1 have a choice of two operating systems, so that we could carry on with the XP setup, and gradually wean ourselves on to 8.1 in our own time?

        Microsoft had done this before. Going back even further, when Excel came out we had the option of using our old familiar Lotus 123 commands, instead of the Excel ones. I carried on with the Lotus option for a while, but gradually crossed over to Excel over time.

        Anyway, I must get back to my pretty squares - after two days, I quite like them now!
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

      Well Bill I hope you are right - but with all due respect, if you are, then why is it that there are not more things available to the public so that however many gigabillion XP users will know how to shield themselves -

      ... that is what I have been waiting and waiting for and actively searching for (off and on when I get to where I want to do something with those 2 PCs). (it quickly passes).

      So please I mean package it up and sell it. If you have a bullet-proof solution then let sites like ComputerWorld, ZDNet, several different Technical 'magazine's' KNOW, and let them get the word out - you will be a rich guy! LOL.

      Even if that doesn't appeal to you - what good does it do to keep information like that as some kind of tech guy secret???

      Share the wealth, Dude!
      Patrician, He is simply WRONG! The fact is that there have NEVER been such programs for ANYTHING. WHY? Because computers DON'T have wisdom and, even if they did, sometimes things can't be done by themselves. ALSO, HOW is a computer to know what it is to do? So people scan malware sites, look at bugs, APIs, and methods. They try to collect viruses to try to, as best they can, fix such things. It isn't perfect, and they miss a lot. THAT is why they are so frequently updated, and why new viruses appear.

      As for the CURRENT antivirus programs for XP? EVENTUALLY they will dry up. It could take years. It may be 3 months(unlikely to be that soon), or 10 years(unlikely to be that long). It will probably happen within 5 years. But software WILL have to dry up. When that happens, all that will be left is to reverse engineer, etc... Microsoft generally doesn't let out their source.

      So don't think anyone has been able to magically do what so many people have tried to do over about 40 years. In theory, it just isn't possible. Computers don't have the intelligence, ability, or knowledge. Humans don't have the persistence, infallibility, attention, and imagination to do things that far ahead. BESIDES, THIS way, they can keep charging you FOREVER!

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        Patrician, He is simply WRONG! The fact is that there have NEVER been such programs for ANYTHING. WHY? Because computers DON'T have wisdom and, even if they did, sometimes things can't be done by themselves. ALSO, HOW is a computer to know what it is to do? So people scan malware sites, look at bugs, APIs, and methods. They try to collect viruses to try to, as best they can, fix such things. It isn't perfect, and they miss a lot. THAT is why they are so frequently updated, and why new viruses appear.
        Calm down Steve. I'm not wrong and I'm not sure where you're going with all that talk about "computer wisdom" at all. All I'm saying is if there are so many flaws and exploits and viruses and terror...where is it? Why is my daily computing peaceful and incident free and has been for years? Maybe some people bring trouble onto themselves by downloading suspect files from suspect websites and not caring to scan before they open - I'm not sure but getting hysterical doesn't change the fact that I haven't seen any problems for years so does that mean I'm wrong? Hardly.

        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        As for the CURRENT antivirus programs for XP? EVENTUALLY they will dry up. It could take years. It may be 3 months(unlikely to be that soon), or 10 years(unlikely to be that long). It will probably happen within 5 years. But software WILL have to dry up. When that happens, all that will be left is to reverse engineer, etc... Microsoft generally doesn't let out their source.
        That's fine. If that happens, I'll move. People carrying banners and shouting that the world is going to end and I must upgrade now or face the wrath of dried up software are going a tad far for my sensibilities.

        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        So don't think anyone has been able to magically do what so many people have tried to do over about 40 years. In theory, it just isn't possible. Computers don't have the intelligence, ability, or knowledge. Humans don't have the persistence, infallibility, attention, and imagination to do things that far ahead. BESIDES, THIS way, they can keep charging you FOREVER!

        Steve
        Yeah, really not sure what any of that means except the part about charging more. That's I agree with but do you honestly think that hundreds of millions of users who currently love XP is going to be ignored as a massive market? People will figure out a way to keep XP going because it's a landmark and very familiar system. Keeping it going is a huge business and I can't see any of the big players just walking away from it any time soon. It would be corporate suicide to abandon XP users. Sorry, nt going to happen any time soon.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by Mr Bill View Post

          Calm down Steve. I'm not wrong and I'm not sure where you're going with all that talk about "computer wisdom" at all. All I'm saying is if there are so many flaws and exploits and viruses and terror...where is it? Why is my daily computing peaceful and incident free and has been for years? Maybe some people bring trouble onto themselves by downloading suspect files from suspect websites and not caring to scan before they open - I'm not sure but getting hysterical doesn't change the fact that I haven't seen any problems for years so does that mean I'm wrong? Hardly.
          I'm calm. To say that a person brings it upon themselves is meaningless. They do all they can to trick people. Some things ARE very effective. ALSO, there ARE other ways. The SQL slammer worm is a good example. That affected computers WORLD WIDE with NO human intervention! WHOLE CORPORATIONS had to shut down huge parts of their business for long periods of time.

          And I doubt ANYONE has been affected by even 1% of the possible current infections. STILL, they are out there and WAITING.

          Computers need wisdom to anticipate what might happen, but determining an infection requires knowledge of what they must do, and what they did do. That will never happen.

          That's fine. If that happens, I'll move. People carrying banners and shouting that the world is going to end and I must upgrade now or face the wrath of dried up software is going a tad far.
          You're right there, and I said the SAME thing back when they announced the EOL of XP.

          Yeah, really not sure what any of that means except the part about charging more. That's I agree with but do you honestly think that hundreds of millions of users who currently love XP is going to be ignored as a massive market? People will figure out a way to keep XP going because it's a landmark and very familiar system. Keeping it going is a huge business and I can't see any of the big players just walking away from it any time soon. It would be corporate suicide to abandon XP users. Sorry, nt going to happen any time soon.
          Yeah, I think people will abandon XP just like all that came before it. HEY, the REAL EOL announcement was like a month after netbooks became popular. REMEMBER? The netbook manufacturers and buyers said HEY, THIS can't run the latest windows system, and we bought it with an OS. WHAT GIVES? And Microsoft capitulated and supported it for SOOOOOO long after that. NOW, even the low end netbooks can run the latest OS.

          HEY, I gave it 5 years. The FACTS are that there will NEVER be a system to lockout malware from XP, and support WILL dry up. Does that mean you should get rid of it? NOPE! I WOULD start planning towards a newer system, and making sure the software can support a current OS though. ALSO, if possible, start moving away from depending on software so old that XP is about the only thing that can support it.

          Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
            Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

            I'm calm. To say that a person brings it upon themselves is meaningless. They do all they can to trick people. Some things ARE very effective. ALSO, there ARE other ways. The SQL slammer worm is a good example. That affected computers WORLD WIDE with NO human intervention! WHOLE CORPORATIONS had to shut down huge parts of their business for long periods of time.

            And I doubt ANYONE has been affected by even 1% of the possible current infections. STILL, they are out there and WAITING.

            Computers need wisdom to anticipate what might happen, but determining an infection requires knowledge of what they must do, and what they did do. That will never happen.

            You're right there, and I said the SAME thing back when they announced the EOL of XP.

            Yeah, I think people will abandon XP just like all that came before it. HEY, the REAL EOL announcement was like a month after netbooks became popular. REMEMBER? The netbook manufacturers and buyers said HEY, THIS can't run the latest windows system, and we bought it with an OS. WHAT GIVES? And Microsoft capitulated and supported it for SOOOOOO long after that. NOW, even the low end netbooks can run the latest OS.

            HEY, I gave it 5 years..
            That's the point I think. XP is like no other public consumed operating system. All the previous OSs needed to keep up with Moore's Law but after XP the chhanges have been far less of an increase in productivity and actually have usually caused a large loss in productivity and a large increase in frustration.

            Even if it only lasts for another 5 years (which I seriously doubt) that's still a very impressive record and pushes XP into the running for best operating system ever - if use and popularity is anything to go by. You don't see anyone complaining that Win98 went away but look at the size of the XP owners fan club - it's massive and for a good reason. Once computers became fast enough they became fast enough and remained fast and often the fastest on the block.

            I'm not going to sell my Big Block 1972 GSX Buick because there's a new Hyundai on offer. The Buick does everything just as fast as it needs to with comfort, class, reliability, plenty of power to spare and less fuss - just like XP does in the computer world. It's no ordinary OS. It's a classic that works fast and fine.
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            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
              Originally Posted by Mr Bill View Post

              That's the point I think. XP is like no other public consumed operating system. All the previous OSs needed to keep up with Moore's Law but after XP the chhanges have been far less of an increase in productivity and actually have usually caused a large loss in productivity and a large increase in frustration.
              That is a bunch of bull. Moores law had NOTHING to do with OS's It was about HARDWARE! In fact, the actual quote dealt with TRANSISTOR DENSITY. Moore's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia And by THAT measure, it is STILL happening quickly. The original boundary limiting moores law was broken a couple decades ago, and most things are still trying to catch up with CURRENT technology. They are CLAIMING that they can get this down to atom density, and hit the final limit for the known science. But if you think XP comes close to the current state of the art, MAN are you off!

              Even if it only lasts for another 5 years (which I seriously doubt) that's still a very impressive record and pushes XP into the running for best operating system ever
              NOT EVEN CLOSE! That honor STILL belongs to UNIX! Created in the 60s, it became like the universal OS of CHOICE for the INDUSTRY! Never mind that IEEE in the 70s used it as the basis for their POSIX standard and the two fed off of one another. Never mind that it was available to the masses and several universities had their hands in it. Never mind that a number of technologies were DEVELOPED on it. HEY, IBM, DEC, SGI, SUN, MIPS, HP, and several others use it for many, most, or ALL, of their high end systems. Yeah, a few of those went south, but not because of UNIX.

              HEY, a cheap partially crippled knockoff, to a degree, CP/M was used for PC DOS, MS DOS. Windows sometimes CLAIMS posix support, but it is still just a dream.

              For the Record, Linux is so close to UNIX, it might as well be. Linus TRIED to make it internally different, but when converting XWindows, he decided it was easier to make the internals look like UNIX, than to provide all the patches to make Xwindows work. Xwindows is a product that works almost like the old M/S windows in that it runs on top of UNIX, like MSW with dos. Obviously, it would have, and HAS, helped with the adoptance of LINUX.

              - if use and popularity is anything to go by.
              It isn't.

              You don't see anyone complaining that Win98 went away but look at the size of the XP owners fan club - it's massive and for a good reason. Once computers became fast enough they became fast enough and remained fast and often the fastest on the block.
              XP was likely one of the most sold. Windows has been acknowledged as being near unusable before 3.0. I can tell you from experience that windows 3.0 was not as good as 3.1. THAT didn't even have networking! 95 was recognized as being better, and required simply a memory upgrade for most. Same with 98. People balked with 2000 because it was a distinct change and wouldn't run on a lot of hardware. Microsoft even capitulated and released ME(The REAL last version of windows). ME was a flop because nobody wanted to support it, and M/S held fast saying that they abandoned the platform before it even came out!

              Along comes XP! THEN, eventually, people decided to DOWNGRADE for size, cost, and increased portability. M/S came out with 7, IIRC, and said XP was DEAD! It would have been a NIGHTMARE, with a lot of suits, if M/S followed through. They lengthened it. HEY, they did the same with WINDOWS! XP is NOT a windows version, but a windows NT version. Anyway, M/S HAS stopped support of XP. It is only a matter of time before everyone ELSE does.

              Steve
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              • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
                Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                That is a bunch of bull. Moores law had NOTHING to do with OS's It was about HARDWARE! In fact, the actual quote dealt with TRANSISTOR DENSITY. Moore's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia And by THAT measure, it is STILL happening quickly. The original boundary limiting moores law was broken a couple decades ago, and most things are still trying to catch up with CURRENT technology. They are CLAIMING that they can get this down to atom density, and hit the final limit for the known science. But if you think XP comes close to the current state of the art, MAN are you off!



                NOT EVEN CLOSE! That honor STILL belongs to UNIX! Created in the 60s, it became like the universal OS of CHOICE for the INDUSTRY! Never mind that IEEE in the 70s used it as the basis for their POSIX standard and the two fed off of one another. Never mind that it was available to the masses and several universities had their hands in it. Never mind that a number of technologies were DEVELOPED on it. HEY, IBM, DEC, SGI, SUN, MIPS, HP, and several others use it for many, most, or ALL, of their high end systems. Yeah, a few of those went south, but not because of UNIX.

                HEY, a cheap partially crippled knockoff, to a degree, CP/M was used for PC DOS, MS DOS. Windows sometimes CLAIMS posix support, but it is still just a dream.

                For the Record, Linux is so close to UNIX, it might as well be. Linus TRIED to make it internally different, but when converting XWindows, he decided it was easier to make the internals look like UNIX, than to provide all the patches to make Xwindows work. Xwindows is a product that works almost like the old M/S windows in that it runs on top of UNIX, like MSW with dos. Obviously, it would have, and HAS, helped with the adoptance of LINUX.



                It isn't.



                XP was likely one of the most sold. Windows has been acknowledged as being near unusable before 3.0. I can tell you from experience that windows 3.0 was not as good as 3.1. THAT didn't even have networking! 95 was recognized as being better, and required simply a memory upgrade for most. Same with 98. People balked with 2000 because it was a distinct change and wouldn't run on a lot of hardware. Microsoft even capitulated and released ME(The REAL last version of windows). ME was a flop because nobody wanted to support it, and M/S held fast saying that they abandoned the platform before it even came out!

                Along comes XP! THEN, eventually, people decided to DOWNGRADE for size, cost, and increased portability. M/S came out with 7, IIRC, and said XP was DEAD! It would have been a NIGHTMARE, with a lot of suits, if M/S followed through. They lengthened it. HEY, they did the same with WINDOWS! XP is NOT a windows version, but a windows NT version. Anyway, M/S HAS stopped support of XP. It is only a matter of time before everyone ELSE does.

                Steve
                Steve, why are you screaming like a deranged banshi? I have a valid opinion based on my own real experience which you seem to insist doesn't exist or maybe somehow I just dreamed it. You really need to chill out dude. You've failed to accept my reality as fact and that's your problem. You also failed to see my connection with Moore's law which is absolutely relevant which you'll see if you care to stop screaming about what happened in the 80s lol. Who cares about the 80s? I'm talking about modern relevant OSs as it pertains to this topic.

                Unix is not relevant to this discussion or my points which have all been valid and relevant; unlike your irrelevant tangents and loopy references to irrelevant facts. You can scream and twitch all you like buddy but you're yelling at a wall dude. I've made my valid point several times and I stand by everything I said despite your contextual blindness.

                Having a bad day? Take it out on the cat.
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                • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                  Originally Posted by Mr Bill View Post

                  Steve, why are you screaming like a deranged banshi?
                  I'll assume you mean banshee. Banshee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia NOPE! NO similarity. I'm not screaming!

                  I have a valid opinion based on my own real experience which you seem to insist doesn't exist or maybe somehow I just dreamed it. You really need to chill out dude. You've failed to accept my reality as fact and that's your problem.
                  OK, YOUR reality. I can accept that. I accepted that.

                  You also failed to see my connection with Moore's law which is absolutely relevant which you'll see if you care to stop screaming about what happened in the 80s lol. Who cares about the 80s? I'm talking about modern relevant OSs as it pertains to this topic.
                  OK, an OS is supposed to be connected to moore's law? I STILL don't see it! People equate CPU SPEED with it, and at least THAT makes sense. Imagine how big even the advanced memory circuitry in the pentium would be compared to the 80286 if it used traditional transistors. Just THAT would likely fill a good size room. Such a transistor can easily be seen and handled with hands, etc.... Those in the pentium are so small that you even have trouble seeing them with a microscope.

                  Unix is not relevant to this discussion or my points which have all been valid and relevant; unlike your irrelevant tangents and loopy references to irrelevant facts. You can scream and twitch all you like buddy but you're yelling at a wall dude. I've made my valid point several times and I stand by everything I said despite your contextual blindness.
                  YEP, ****YOUR**** reality.

                  Having a bad day?
                  NOPE!

                  Take it out on the cat.
                  Sorry, NO CAT! YOUR mission, should you decide to accept it, is to BE THE CAT!

                  Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
    Haha, Good one Steve.

    XP has been safe and stable for me ever since it was first released to us in late 2001. In my extensive experience it's totally reasonable to expect it to continue being so for a long time yet and certainly (based on it's solid performance and stability over the last 13 years) for the foreseeable future. If it stops being so, I'll move but so far so good for me and I thrash the guts out of it every day.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Mr Bill View Post

      Haha, Good one Steve.

      XP has been safe and stable for me ever since it was first released to us in late 2001. In my extensive experience it's totally reasonable to expect it to continue being so for a long time yet and certainly (based on it's solid performance and stability over the last 13 years) for the foreseeable future. If it stops being so, I'll move but so far so good for me and I thrash the guts out of it every day.
      Maybe I am just more demanding of my computer, or have more expectations. NOW, my i5 6GB laptop is working reasonably, but sometimes it is a DOG, doing the SAME thing with NO main programs listed as running. GRANTED, it is 8.1, but I have had the SAME problem going back to 3.1. And it can crash at any instant. Granted, I can't remember the last time it did, but EVERY one has crashed. I know it isn't just me. On a customer computer, outlook often crashes and I have to bring up the task manager to kill background processes to get it started. Sometimes I HAVE to reboot.

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        Maybe I am just more demanding of my computer, or have more expectations. NOW, my i5 6GB laptop is working reasonably, but sometimes it is a DOG, doing the SAME thing with NO main programs listed as running. GRANTED, it is 8.1, but I have had the SAME problem going back to 3.1. And it can crash at any instant. Granted, I can't remember the last time it did, but EVERY one has crashed. I know it isn't just me. On a customer computer, outlook often crashes and I have to bring up the task manager to kill background processes to get it started. Sometimes I HAVE to reboot.

        Steve
        Absolutely, if you have a need for a more powerful 64 bit system than of course I'm not saying that people shouldn't upgrade; that'd be insane. I'm saying that I have no need for it and XP has been my friend for a long time.

        A system not set up correctly or abused will crash. Mine doesn't because I look after it. If people can't set up XP properly it's not XPs fault. I can only speak from experience. But like I said earlier, if your software (or games) require it then of course you must move to get the performance but for me and millions of others it works just fine for what we use it for. For me, that mostly graphics (photoshop) and 2D web and office work. For me to move to a strange and ill conceived less productive operating system would make no sense to me. I'd lose productivity for no benefit.

        If you're a gamer or have special software needs then fine. For me and many other people who have no good reason for updating there's just no need. That's all I'm saying.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by Mr Bill View Post

          Absolutely, if you have a need for a more powerful 64 bit system than of course I'm not saying that people shouldn't upgrade; that'd be insane. I'm saying that I have no need for it and XP has been my friend for a long time.
          I HAVE a 64 bit system running a lot of 64 bit software. But it runs slower than my 6502 at times. The 6502 ran at JUST over 1Mhz.

          A system not set up correctly or abused will crash. Mine doesn't because I look after it. If people can't set up XP properly it's not XPs fault. I can only speak from experience. But like I said earlier, if your software (or games) require it then of course you must move to get the performance but for me and millions of others it works just fine for what we use it for. For me, that mostly graphics (photoshop) and 2D web and office work. For me to move to a strange and ill conceived less productive operating system would make no sense to me. I'd lose productivity for no benefit.
          WOW, I guess a LOT of people, including whole corporations don't know how to setup this OS. YEP, you can blame XP! I don't use games.

          Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
            Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

            I HAVE a 64 bit system running a lot of 64 bit software. But it runs slower than my 6502 at times. The 6502 ran at JUST over 1Mhz.

            WOW, I guess a LOT of people, including whole corporations don't know how to setup this OS. YEP, you can blame XP! I don't use games.

            Steve
            I've worked for (one of) the biggest corporations on the planet...in the IT department - and as I'm sure you must be aware there are plenty of ways a corporation can screw up a computer. We used to tear our hair out at what they wanted us to pile onto those laptops - unbelievable. No wonder they crashed a lot - still doesn't prove the point about XP. They would be the last people I'd point to as reason to ditch XP. They're almost guaranteed to screw it up - absolutely!
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  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    Originally Posted by peter_act View Post

    I want my XP Pro back!!
    I'm still using it, though it isn't still supported/updated (as of a few weeks ago), so that's temporary.

    The guy in my local computer sales/repairs shop tells me that the title line of this thread is a sentiment he's heard countless times from customers who have switched to Windows 8.x (but far less commonly from those who have switched to Windows 7.x).


    .
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  • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
    Originally Posted by peter_act View Post

    Well, after numerous messages from Microsoft about my XP Pro operating system, and the fact that my old computer was seven years old, I went down to get a new computer.
    It's got Windows 8.1 and Office 2013"", the smiling assistant said cheerfully, and like a fool I thought they were good things.
    Peter, you walked into a computer shop without doing any prior research? I think that's asking for trouble.

    A few months ago, I replaced one of my desktop PCs that had been happily running XP for the last nine years. I don't have the interest or inclination to play around with tweaking an operating system, so I looked up the options before I purchased.

    I found plenty of opinions on the pros and cons of Windows 8.1 and decided it wasn't a good fit for a desktop system, so I chose a supplier who was willing to install Windows 7 Pro in a new machine.

    So far, it's been a simple, untroubled transition. I still have XP on another PC and I still think it's a better system, but as I now use Windows 7 more, I'm sure it'll soon become second nature.


    Frank
    Signature

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  • Profile picture of the author mkgg
    That is the same way people felt with windows xp when they had to switch over from windows 98. I remember how tough it was when i had to do it and now look at how everyone loves it.

    I admit it was tough for me to make the change from windows 7 to 8, i can't imagine how hard it will be to do that from xp to 8 but now that i have, i can't go back to 7 or xp. They feel ancient and slow.

    Here are a few mods that will bring back the feeling of windows 7 or somewhat of xp and the classic windows look.

    stardock start8 (paid but worth it) for bringing the taskbar back
    A mod for bringing desktop gadgets back if you had used them(should be the first result in google)

    Thats it. I don't get the hate about win8 anymore, you can't diss something until you have given it a genuine try and after doing that i love it more than any other windows i have used. Its modern, faster and its the way forward.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
    OK, an OS is supposed to be connected to moore's law? I STILL don't see it!
    I think that tells us all we need to know about you but by all means keep screaming, it makes you look awesome.
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