Selling nutrition? Will Codex Alimentarius shut you down 2010?

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Basically, starting January 1, 2010, your vitamins will be deluted down to 1/10 strenght to what they are now. If you want the full version, you are going to need a prescription with a doctor and pay 10 times as much.

Herbs are going down the drain as well but I'm not sure when. Same with garlic, they already tried to make it illegal in Canada but did not pass (yet).

Want more gloom? Health Freedom Threats: Codex, FDA, Vaccinations, GMOs :: HealthFreedomUSA.org

Millions of people are estimated to die because they are not going to be able to afford it.

So, if you are in the nutrition field, what are you going to do? This is REALLY scary, to say the least. If you go into healthfreedomusa, you can vote and say no, whatever that will do...

Best of luck, Eva
#2010 #alimentarius #codex #nutrition #selling #shut #sky is falling #tinfoil hat #vitamins
  • Profile picture of the author tj
    How about enjoying natural fruit and vitamin's instead of industrial massproduced artificial stuff?

    "Millions of people are estimated to die because they are not going to be able to afford it. ..."

    From where do you get this number?

    Timo
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    • Profile picture of the author Vikuna2009+
      I hear ya, so, tell me, where do you buy all that nutritional fruits and veggies, in a supermarket??? If you look further into it, you will find your answers. Personally, I got at least a good 20 hours researching this "stuff". Codex A that is. Not to talk about of countless of other hours doing other research.

      My point is: This is REAL and if you ARE into making money selling ANYTHING nutrisious, your business is about to CRASH. That is, if this will actually happen (which I'm pretty sure it is, after all, this conspiracy has been built for MANY years and there are some major heavy-hitters behind it).

      A head of lettuce or a shiny apple (shine because it has been sprayed with toxins) is NOT going to keep you healthy. And, there are so many ways that you can no longer get ANY nutrition that is sufficient enough to keep you healthy.

      I guess you never ever taken a vitamin supplement or anything else, can I please have your recipe !
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      • Profile picture of the author The Pension Guy
        Originally Posted by Vikuna2009+ View Post

        I guess you never ever taken a vitamin supplement or anything else, can I please have your recipe!
        While this sentence wasn't addressed to me - it fully applies to me: have never ever taken vitamin supplement and stuff like that

        So, here is my recipe:
        1. Never eat junk food! (and fast food, which is synonym in my books)
        2. Buy locally grown produce and natural meet. Or grow your own.
        3. COOK at home as learned from grandma.
        4. Have a glass of good wine or a beer after your tasty home-made meal.
        5. Relax on your patio or deck while having that wine and enjoy a good cigar
        6. Repeat it every day...

        I am close to 60 and never had any medical issues. I also don't have this obsession of dying healthy
        Signature

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        • Profile picture of the author cacique
          Originally Posted by The Pension Guy View Post

          While this sentence wasn't addressed to me - it fully applies to me: have never ever taken vitamin supplement and stuff like that

          So, here is my recipe:
          1. Never eat junk food! (and fast food, which is synonym in my books)
          2. Buy locally grown produce and natural meet. Or grow your own.
          3. COOK at home as learned from grandma.
          4. Have a glass of good wine or a beer after your tasty home-made meal.
          5. Relax on your patio or deck while having that wine and enjoy a good cigar
          6. Repeat it every day...

          I am close to 60 and never had any medical issues. I also don't have this obsession of dying healthy
          Nice to see you're healthy, but your logic sure is flawed. One sample does not a rule make... I assume you're simply having some fun.

          Yikes..! Eva is only the messenger, why is everyone shooting her down?

          David
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      • Profile picture of the author Joe118
        I heard they even developed a machine that takes the vitamins out of lettuce and apples. If you spin an apple on its axis fast enough, you can see the vitamins and good stuff fly off the apple at high speed!!! This machine THEY developed will spin each apple at 30000RPM for 7 minutes and then all the vitamins are lost. And what isnt extracted will be made illegal, so you can go to jail for eating an unspun apple right off the tree!



        OK seriously, there should be a tin-foil hat section in this forum. I'm sure all those who believe in this kind of stuff will be very happy to talk amongst themselves.

        Originally Posted by Vikuna2009+ View Post

        I hear ya, so, tell me, where do you buy all that nutritional fruits and veggies, in a supermarket??? If you look further into it, you will find your answers. Personally, I got at least a good 20 hours researching this "stuff". Codex A that is. Not to talk about of countless of other hours doing other research.

        My point is: This is REAL and if you ARE into making money selling ANYTHING nutrisious, your business is about to CRASH. That is, if this will actually happen (which I'm pretty sure it is, after all, this conspiracy has been built for MANY years and there are some major heavy-hitters behind it).

        A head of lettuce or a shiny apple (shine because it has been sprayed with toxins) is NOT going to keep you healthy. And, there are so many ways that you can no longer get ANY nutrition that is sufficient enough to keep you healthy.

        I guess you never ever taken a vitamin supplement or anything else, can I please have your recipe !
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    • Profile picture of the author Adrian Cooper
      Originally Posted by tj View Post

      How about enjoying natural fruit and vitamin's instead of industrial massproduced artificial stuff?

      "Millions of people are estimated to die because they are not going to be able to afford it. ..."

      From where do you get this number?

      Timo
      It is now a criminal offence to commercially grow organic food in the US - the chemical companies were losing too much money on healthy eating, and made sure the politicians they "support" pushed the legislation through.

      Grow your own food.
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      • Profile picture of the author ctaylordill
        Originally Posted by Adrian Cooper View Post

        It is now a criminal offence to commercially grow organic food in the US - the chemical companies were losing too much money on healthy eating, and made sure the politicians they "support" pushed the legislation through.

        Grow your own food.
        That is outrageous. I work for a health food store. we used to buy organic produce from local farmers, but not anymore. We purchase from a local company, but when I look at the invoices, all I see are foreign countries besides the produce items
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      • Profile picture of the author myob
        Originally Posted by Adrian Cooper View Post

        It is now a criminal offence to commercially grow organic food in the US - the chemical companies were losing too much money on healthy eating, and made sure the politicians they "support" pushed the legislation through.

        Grow your own food.
        Where have you read that growing organic food is a criminal offence? LOL! I have been "illegally" selling organic produce in my health food store for more than 20 years from certified local organic farmers and from the northwest. And, despite the persistence of these rumors, I will continue into 2010 and beyond. To further show my criminality, I sell high quality all-natural food supplements. Never been thrown in jail yet. Perhaps just never got caught?

        BTW: I enjoy my waffles made from organically grown whole wheat, hot butter, maple syrup, and topped with fresh blueberries. I was born to be an all-natural wild criminal!
        Signature
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  • Profile picture of the author balric
    I am surprised to see this here but glad someone is getting the information out.
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    • Profile picture of the author Vikuna2009+
      Originally Posted by balric View Post

      I am surprised to see this here but glad someone is getting the information out.


      Honestly, I've been wanting to post this here for a long time but been kind of worried about it. We are not talking about some small time punks here and if you do not see any more threads from me, they paid me a visit .

      We are talking about BILLIONS here, and then triple that. The common man/woman is the one that will pay the price, not just in America but world-wide.

      Google the heck out of it and if you have some spare cash, stock up on essentials while you still have time. It's coming....

      No, this is not to scare the h... out of you (but it should), merely an attempt to informe ppl that if you make a living off of nutrition, you need to have a back-up plan.
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      • Profile picture of the author ConcordeWarrior
        Originally Posted by Vikuna2009+ View Post

        if you have some spare cash, stock up on essentials while you still have time. It's coming....
        I have thought about stacking up and storing vitamins and supplements. But will it keep?

        The question is... would the supplements lose their nutrition potential after a while?

        What would be the best way to store them so they can keep? Thinking of the same for dehydrated foods in case of a major crisis.

        :confused:
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by ConcordeWarrior View Post

          I have thought about stacking up and storing vitamins and supplements. But will it keep?

          The question is... would the supplements lose their nutrition potential after a while?

          What would be the best way to store them so they can keep? Thinking of the same for dehydrated foods in case of a major crisis.

          :confused:
          It CAN degrade. And HOW do you build such a supply? And when they made prohormones illegal, just POSSESSING them was a FELONY! And I think it was like a YEAR in jail! For OWNING a relatively harmless item!

          Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    People will believe anything.

    Oh, and this should be in the Off-Topic section.
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    • Profile picture of the author Vikuna2009+
      Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

      People will believe anything.

      Oh, and this should be in the Off-Topic section.


      I agree, to a certain extent. However, how is health, business and making money supposed to be and Off-topic question and also my concern for those who ARE in this business module who might not have any idea about this?

      This IS coming and if you support your family on this, time to re-group. Then again, if you have medical problems, by informing you all to stock up, will save you TONS of $.

      Best to you, Eva
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
        Originally Posted by Vikuna2009+ View Post

        I agree, to a certain extent. However, how is health, business and making money supposed to be and Off-topic question and also my concern for those who ARE in this business module who might not have any idea about this?

        This IS coming and if you support your family on this, time to re-group. Then again, if you have medical problems, by informing you all to stock up, will save you TONS of $.

        Best to you, Eva
        Sorry, I don't buy into the conspiracy theory BS. But I know that no amount of FACTUAL EVIDENCE will ever make a conspiracy theorist admit the truth (not you specifcally, but in general).

        Also, I don't appreciate the common conspiracy tactic of "if you care about your family". That tactic is nothing more than a poor attempt at making an emotional argument. Do you know what type of people make emotional arguments? Those without facts.

        Anyway, if you want to worry your precious little heart about this, I won't stop you, but I don't have time...because...I am going into the kitchen to get a big piece of cake and a large bowl of ice cream.

        All the best,
        Michael

        p.s. This belongs entirely in the Off-Topic section. The video has nothing to do with making money; unless it's making money for the site being promoted by the video.
        Signature

        "Ich bin en fuego!"
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        • Profile picture of the author Vikuna2009+
          Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

          Sorry, I don't buy into the conspiracy theory BS. But I know that no amount of FACTUAL EVIDENCE will ever make a conspiracy theorist admit the truth (not you specifcally, but in general).

          Also, I don't appreciate the common conspiracy tactic of "if you care about your family". That tactic is nothing more than a poor attempt at making an emotional argument. Do you know what type of people make emotional arguments? Those without facts.

          Anyway, if you want to worry your precious little heart about this, I won't stop you, but I don't have time...because...I am going into the kitchen to get a big piece of cake and a large bowl of ice cream.

          All the best,
          Michael

          p.s. This belongs entirely in the Off-Topic section. The video has nothing to do with making money; unless it's making money for the site being promoted by the video.


          Duly noted, enjoy your cake and icecream .
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          • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
            Originally Posted by Vikuna2009+ View Post

            Duly noted, enjoy your cake and icecream .
            Thank you, Eva. I will.



            Signature

            "Ich bin en fuego!"
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            • Profile picture of the author Vikuna2009+
              Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

              Thank you, Eva. I will.





              BTW, did you read the ingridients???????????????

              High fructose corn syrup, DO NOT TOUCH, in the long run, it gives you cancer.

              Sorry, I could not help myself but there are SOO many ppl that does not have a clue. I have a girlfriend of mine that stopped drinking soda and she lost almost 40 pounds, doing NOTHING else.

              Was it good?
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        • Profile picture of the author Chris Faraday
          Politics, Religion... and now FOOD taboo... such strong feeling...
          Forget your cholesteral count - although it looks high. It's about dollars...OURS!!!

          This is alarming as health & wellness are billions on the table for IM'ers (internationally).
          It may be the majors drug, agro & healthcare squeezing the little guy... Follow the money guys...It's not that hard.

          Vitamins are harmful in the body (save your comments please) and it's become a gun slinging west. Pseudo health is hot - but not helpful. Lifestyle (and info products around natural lifestyle) still OK. The future is in whole foods, Superfoods & waters as well as pristine mineralized produce (therapeutic grade -beyond organic). Commercial meats, grains are a complete disaster. (hold the comments please) Do the research..
          And besides...I saw it on Operah. : ) - Kidding...

          What are the thoughts on the codex effect on whole food superfoods???
          It's a "food" not a supplement - Comments here??

          In the meantime learn all you can about hydration, alkalinity & minerals. It will literally save your life... And possibly your business.
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          Super-Conscious Affiliate

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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

      People will believe anything.

      Oh, and this should be in the Off-Topic section.
      With all the businesses that will be effected by this ruling it belongs right here because supplements are multi-billion dollar industry - and how many have niches that are directly effected by this ruling? Answer - whoever sells supplements or related products.

      And yes - we can believe it - it was already passed and is slated to go into effect in the US in 2010 - already instated in some countries.

      Actually the OT warriors DID fight it back in 2005 - mass emails websites. Where the heck was twitter when we needed it?

      This is a nightmare situation with foods no longer able to provide proper nutrition because of soil depletion and pollution, pesticides, etc.

      The figure I saw was not millions either, though. I saw billions. Who knows how many will succumb - especially with socialized med being installed.

      But the point is - FIGHT IT - Last time they passed it at all, our gov got 50 million "not evens" and they still pranced over to Italy and signed the agreement.

      If you value your body - sign.
      If you have a supplement business you need to get active right away and really spread the word or you will be shut down in 2010. 50 million letters against didn't do it first time - You better be able to come up with a hundred or two million this time.

      By the way Eva - thanks for the link - it's getting twittered.
      Signature

      Sal
      When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
      Beyond the Path

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      • Profile picture of the author Vikuna2009+
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        With all the businesses that will be effected by this ruling it belongs right here because supplements are multi-billion dollar industry - and how many have niches that are directly effected by this ruling? Answer - whoever sells supplements or related products.

        And yes - we can believe it - it was already passed and is slated to go into effect in the US in 2010 - already instated in some countries.

        Actually the OT warriors DID fight it back in 2005 - mass emails websites. Where the heck was twitter when we needed it?

        This is a nightmare situation with foods no longer able to provide proper nutrition because of soil depletion and pollution, pesticides, etc.

        The figure I saw was not millions either, though. I saw billions. Who knows how many will succumb - especially with socialized med being installed.

        But the point is - FIGHT IT - Last time they passed it at all, our gov got 50 million "not evens" and they still pranced over to Italy and signed the agreement.

        If you value your body - sign.
        If you have a supplement business you need to get active right away and really spread the word or you will be shut down in 2010. 50 million letters against didn't do it first time - You better be able to come up with a hundred or two million this time.

        By the way Eva - thanks for the link - it's getting twittered.


        Thanks Sal, you are a smart woman.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    It makes me laugh, but it doesn't scare me.

    I admit, I only watched the first 2:40, but that was enough. So, it's a vast anti-nutrition conspiracy?

    Okay. Whatever.

    Geez! You know, the video doesn't scare me, but that fact that people buy into that garbage DOES.
    Signature

    "Ich bin en fuego!"
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    rofl... NAIS was going to take my chickens and cows too...
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    • Profile picture of the author Vikuna2009+
      Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

      rofl... NAIS was going to take my chickens and cows too...


      Gosh, who knows.... How do you feed them? Did some research into that too. Google it, you might be surprised...
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  • Profile picture of the author The Pension Guy
    Originally Posted by Vikuna2009+ View Post

    Same with garlic, they already tried to make it illegal in Canada but did not pass (yet).
    While I admit there are many crazy regulations in Canada, so nothing would surprise me... how comes that as a Canadian I've never heard about this attempt to ban it and I just bought some very fine garlic on Thursday when I did my weekly shopping?
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    And Art Bell told me that a foil hat would keep the rays from affecting my brain too. But since I posted this, I will probably end up in a REX-84 concentration camp.

    The chemtrails... the chemtrails....
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    • Profile picture of the author Vikuna2009+
      Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

      And Art Bell told me that a foil hat would keep the rays from affecting my brain too. But since I posted this, I will probably end up in a REX-84 concentration camp.

      The chemtrails... the chemtrails....


      Hilarious , what brand of foil are you using:confused:
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      • Profile picture of the author Vikuna2009+
        SERIOUSLY, you do not belive me? Man, at least spend 10 minutes of your life to check this out. I'm NOT making this up and I have no way of monetizing this, it was just supposed to be an informational post about what is coming.

        I'm not here to create controversy, heck, I am too grateful for all the good advise that I have gotten for free (and yes, I did join the war room, lol).

        Making a joke out of this makes me sick, all I wanted to do is to help you. Well, I guess you do not want it.

        Best of luck, Eva
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      • Profile picture of the author Floyd Fisher
        Originally Posted by Vikuna2009+ View Post

        Hilarious , what brand of foil are you using:confused:
        I recommend Reynolds Aluminum myself.

        Seriously, even if what they said was true, what is to stop someone from merely taking 10 tablets instead of one? Seems like a simple enough solution to me, how about you?
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  • Profile picture of the author John Rowe
    More idiocy below...
    The FDA says a cherry is a drug.
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    We have a system that increasingly taxes work and subsidizes nonwork.
    ~ Milton Friedman

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    • Profile picture of the author Kevin Riley
      Although I can't see how any government could make garlic illegal, except for the government of Transylvania, I wouldn't put much past the morons in the Canadian government who put unreasonable regulations on nutritional supplements.

      I need L-lysine myself to treat my occasional outbreaks of herpes simplex (no, not the other herpes) or canker sores. L-lysine works 100% for me every time. Yet, the Canadian govt decided in the 1980s that all amino acid supplements should be banned, as they "hadn't been proven effective as a neutraceutical". For years, I had to find ways to get L-lysine from the US, or suffer mouth sores.

      So, those of you who scoff at this OP or snicker about conspiracy theories, you are putting too much trust in government. No, they do not have YOUR best interest at heart.

      As for this being an Off Topic topic, I don't see that. I'm sure there's more than just a few Warriors making money by promoting these products.
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      Kevin Riley, Kevin Riley Publishing, Osaka, Japan


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      • Profile picture of the author The Pension Guy
        Originally Posted by Kevin Riley View Post

        Although I can't see how any government could make garlic illegal, except for the government of Transylvania
        I am quite sure nobody will believe it... but I was born in Transylvania :p
        Have you ever traveled on a bus or a train in that part of the world? If you did, you would understand why there are no more vampires: everybody stinks of garlic!

        P.S. I have said that nothing would surprise me in regard of stupid Canadian regulations.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kevin Riley
          Originally Posted by The Pension Guy View Post

          If you did, you would understand why there are no more vampires: everybody stinks of garlic!
          In Switzerland, my grandmother always hung a piece of garlic on a string around every family members neck, to ward off colds. It works! No on will come close enough to you to give you a cold.
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          Kevin Riley, Kevin Riley Publishing, Osaka, Japan


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        • Profile picture of the author John Rowe
          Originally Posted by The Pension Guy View Post

          P.S. I have said that nothing would surprise me in regard of stupid Canadian regulations.
          Coincidentally, I have owned StupidCanadians.com for some time... can't remember exactly what prompted the purchase... but I figured it was a safe bet as a domain.
          Signature

          We have a system that increasingly taxes work and subsidizes nonwork.
          ~ Milton Friedman

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      • Profile picture of the author Vikuna2009+
        Originally Posted by Kevin Riley View Post

        Although I can't see how any government could make garlic illegal, except for the government of Transylvania, I wouldn't put much past the morons in the Canadian government who put unreasonable regulations on nutritional supplements.

        I need L-lysine myself to treat my occasional outbreaks of herpes simplex (no, not the other herpes) or canker sores. L-lysine works 100% for me every time. Yet, the Canadian govt decided in the 1980s that all amino acid supplements should be banned, as they "hadn't been proven effective as a neutraceutical". For years, I had to find ways to get L-lysine from the US, or suffer mouth sores.

        So, those of you who scoff at this OP or snicker about conspiracy theories, you are putting too much trust in government. No, they do not have YOUR best interest at heart.

        As for this being an Off Topic topic, I don't see that. I'm sure there's more than just a few Warriors making money by promoting these products.



        Thanks man, at least SOMEONE has a clue...
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      This article is misleading. The FDA didn't say a cherry is a drug. That was the author paraphrasing what she thinks the FDA did. All the FDA did was issue warning letters saying the claims they were making about cherries being able to treat and prevent gout, arthritis, lupus and other ailments were unproven. That's not calling cherries drugs.

      Also, can someone show me where Canada tried to make Garlic illegal? I have not seen this either and it seems to another case where one person makes a claim, as in the cherries are drugs case, and other simply repeating it. Here's some info about the Canadian bill people are/were worried about:

      Government of Canada - Healthy Canadians

      Originally Posted by John Rowe View Post

      More idiocy below...
      The FDA says a cherry is a drug.
      Signature
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    Yes, the high fructose corn syrup was tasty.

    You should try it. STOP EATING OVERPRICED ORGANIC FOOD NOW - IT'S A RIPOFF!!!!!!!!!!!

    Sorry, I just couldn't help myself either.

    For the record, I believe that you believe - it's the video I have a problem with.

    I still think this belongs in the OT, but that's just my opinion.
    Signature

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    • Profile picture of the author Vikuna2009+
      Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

      Yes, the high fructose corn syrup was tasty.

      You should try it. STOP EATING OVERPRICED ORGANIC FOOD NOW - IT'S A RIPOFF!!!!!!!!!!!

      Sorry, I just couldn't help myself either.

      For the record, I believe that you believe - it's the video I have a problem with.

      I still think this belongs in the OT, but that's just my opinion.


      Here is some info for you, might be worth a read !

      Food manufacturers embraced High Fructose Corn Syrup because it is cheaper than sucrose (table sugar) and mixes well with a variety of products, including beverages, baked goods, jams and jellies, candies, and dairy products.

      Excess fructose intake has been associated with adverse health effects such as:
      metabolic syndrome, elevated triglyceride levels, hypertension, non-alcoholic fatty liver disease, excess uric acid levels (associated with gout), and elevated levels of advanced glycation end products (linked with aging and complications of diabetes).

      Excess fructose intake may contribute to hypertension. High blood pressure is a well-known comorbidity associated with obesity, hyperinsulinemia, and hyperlipidemia

      Reasons why you should avoid HCFS:
      • Travels straight to the liver where it is metabolized to fat. Fructose converts to fat more than any other sugar.
      • Contributes to the development of diabetes and tissue damage. A recent study presented at the 2007 national meeting of the American Chemical Society found new evidence that soft drinks sweetened with high fructose corn syrup contains high levels of reactive compounds that have been shown by others to trigger cell and tissue damage that cause diabetes.
      • Does not stimulate insulin production or enhance, leptin, a hormone involved in appetite regulation. Because insulin and leptin act as key signals in regulating how much food you eat, this suggests that dietary fructose may contribute to increased food consumption and weight gain.
      • Contains no enzymes, vitamins or minerals; instead, it takes micro-nutrients from your body. The fructose in HFCS is different from the natural fructose you get when you eat a small piece of whole fruit, which contains the nutrients needed for your body to assimilate sugar.
      • Increases your triglyceride and LDL (bad cholesterol) levels. Triglycerides are the chemical form of fat found in foods and in your body. Studies show that elevated blood levels of triglycerides increases your risk of heart disease.
      • Is almost always made from genetically modified corn, which may increase your risk of developing corn food allergies. The problem with corn allergies are that once you have a corn allergy from GMO corn you will have an allergy to even healthy organic corn products.
      • Corn based products such as HFCS have also been shown to increase osteoporosis, tooth decay, anemia and osteoarthritis.
      • Fructose interacts with birth control pills and can elevate insulin levels in women on the pill.
      • Fructose inhibits copper metabolism leading to a deficiency of copper, which can cause increased bone fragility, anemia, ischemic heart disease and defective connective tissue formation among others.
      The list goes on and on.
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      • Profile picture of the author eddie6149
        thank you for sharing this info, supplements saved my life, now i won't be able to afford them as drugs because they will be ten times the price

        we are slowly losing our constitutional rights, sad days indeed!!!
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        • Profile picture of the author Vikuna2009+
          Originally Posted by eddie6149 View Post

          thank you for sharing this info, supplements saved my life, now i won't be able to afford them as drugs because they will be ten times the price

          we are slowly losing our constitutional rights, sad days indeed!!!


          No kidding. Do you mind sharing what kind of supplements?

          Best regards, Eva
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      • Profile picture of the author TelegramSam
        Originally Posted by tj View Post

        How about enjoying natural fruit and vitamin's instead of industrial massproduced artificial stuff?

        "Millions of people are estimated to die because they are not going to be able to afford it. ..."

        From where do you get this number?

        Timo

        Eating as naturally as possible is the best way. But don't forget that soil quality and the use of a century of man made pesticides and fertilizers is stripping nutrients out of our food.



        Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

        People will believe anything.

        Oh, and this should be in the Off-Topic section.

        Wake up.



        Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

        rofl... NAIS was going to take my chickens and cows too...

        You wake up too.


        Originally Posted by The Pension Guy View Post

        While I admit there are many crazy regulations in Canada, so nothing would surprise me... how comes that as a Canadian I've never heard about this attempt to ban it and I just bought some very fine garlic on Thursday when I did my weekly shopping?

        Just because you haven't heard about it doesn't mean it isn't happening. It is.


        Originally Posted by Kevin Riley View Post

        Although I can't see how any government could make garlic illegal, except for the government of Transylvania, I wouldn't put much past the morons in the Canadian government who put unreasonable regulations on nutritional supplements.

        I need L-lysine myself to treat my occasional outbreaks of herpes simplex (no, not the other herpes) or canker sores. L-lysine works 100% for me every time. Yet, the Canadian govt decided in the 1980s that all amino acid supplements should be banned, as they "hadn't been proven effective as a neutraceutical". For years, I had to find ways to get L-lysine from the US, or suffer mouth sores.

        So, those of you who scoff at this OP or snicker about conspiracy theories, you are putting too much trust in government. No, they do not have YOUR best interest at heart.

        As for this being an Off Topic topic, I don't see that. I'm sure there's more than just a few Warriors making money by promoting these products.

        All of the bans are being brought about and pushed through by the top drug companies of the planet and their leaders. They want you to have to pay them money for their "solutions".

        Glad you are aware of this problem and not as blinkered as some "idyuts" on this thread.



        Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

        Yes, the high fructose corn syrup was tasty.

        You should try it. STOP EATING OVERPRICED ORGANIC FOOD NOW - IT'S A RIPOFF!!!!!!!!!!!

        Sorry, I just couldn't help myself either.

        For the record, I believe that you believe - it's the video I have a problem with.

        I still think this belongs in the OT, but that's just my opinion.

        The biggest rip-off is the price of medical care unhealthy people have to pay for one day!


        Originally Posted by Katie Byrd View Post

        Thank you Nonny!

        My family has been in the health supplement business for almost 30 years and we've seen "scares" like this come along every few years. I'll even admit to being caught up in the hype a few times (many years ago).

        The Dr. in this video mentions DSHEA that was passed in 1994. That was another one that brought the quacks out of the woodwork. In the end, the regulations were very positive and gave the nutrition industry a much needed clean sweep to clear out all the garbage that was on the market. But the naysayers had everyone thinking it was the end of life as we know it.

        Another fact that the OP seems to be missing is that the nutritional supplement market was worth $6.1 billion in 2007*. Are we to believe that a 6 billion dollar industry is going to go away overnight? I don't think so.


        *statistic comes from this article - New report breaks down US supplement market

        Yes, this has been threatened many times and it hasn't yet fully gone through. It seems their tactics are working on you as you are now blinded to what could now be about to take place. They have worn you down with all of their "cry-wolf" tactics earlier.

        Well, this time the wolf really is at the door!


        Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

        I like junk food, and I will continue to enjoy it. The only difference is I don't go around preaching telling everyone that what they should eat.

        You eat what you want to eat, but let me eat what I want to eat.

        Well, in that case why are you so willing to attack the OP and the seriousness of this issue. If you want to pig out on crap food, remain overweight and eat pounds of sugar each week then fine. A lot of people don't want to live like that. So for you to sit on your high horse and pompously say conspiracy crap or whatever else you deem garbage about this legislative attempt is very irresponsible.

        I don't think there will ever come a day when you can't go out and buy some greasy fat laden burger, but there may come a day when you can't buy a health supplement when you want one.

        Don't you think that is wrong. Even if you don't then it's surely not a good thing for future generations is it?



        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        Nonny - the Codex Ameritus is hundreds of pages and you picked out a few paragraphs? You better do some researching on the other 400 plus pages.

        Well said. It seems you are more awake about this issue than most.


        Wake up everybody and protect your rights. Don't let government and multi-national vested interests destroy your health freedoms.

        Sam
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        • Profile picture of the author Vikuna2009+
          Originally Posted by TelegramSam View Post

          Eating as naturally as possible is the best way. But don't forget that soil quality and the use of a century of man made pesticides and fertilizers is stripping nutrients out of our food.






          Wake up.






          You wake up too.





          Just because you haven't heard about it doesn't mean it isn't happening. It is.





          All of the bans are being brought about and pushed through by the top drug companies of the planet and their leaders. They want you to have to pay them money for their "solutions".

          Glad you are aware of this problem and not as blinkered as some "idyuts" on this thread.






          The biggest rip-off is the price of medical care unhealthy people have to pay for one day!





          Yes, this has been threatened many times and it hasn't yet fully gone through. It seems their tactics are working on you as you are now blinded to what could now be about to take place. They have worn you down with all of their "cry-wolf" tactics earlier.

          Well, this time the wolf really is at the door!





          Well, in that case why are you so willing to attack the OP and the seriousness of this issue. If you want to pig out on crap food, remain overweight and eat pounds of sugar each week then fine. A lot of people don't want to live like that. So for you to sit on your high horse and pompously say conspiracy crap or whatever else you deem garbage about this legislative attempt is very irresponsible.

          I don't think there will ever come a day when you can't go out and buy some greasy fat laden burger, but there may come a day when you can't buy a health supplement when you want one.

          Don't you think that is wrong. Even if you don't then it's surely not a good thing for future generations is it?






          Well said. It seems you are more awake about this issue than most.


          Wake up everybody and protect your rights. Don't let government and multi-national vested interests destroy your health freedoms.

          Sam


          I second ALL of that, lol.
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
          Originally Posted by TelegramSam View Post

          Yes, this has been threatened many times and it hasn't yet fully gone through. It seems their tactics are working on you as you are now blinded to what could now be about to take place. They have worn you down with all of their "cry-wolf" tactics earlier.

          Well, this time the wolf really is at the door!
          This is always my favorite...

          Those who believe anything the government says are blinded and have had the wool pulled over our eyes, while at the same time, EVERYTHING you read from those on the other side of the fence is 100% correct.
          So, essentially, anything found on a government website is bunk, yet what you learn here is gospel?


          Ok. If you say so.

          Personally, I believe in a VERY healthy dose of skepticism - on BOTH sides of any subject like this. While I wouldn't trust our g'ment as far as I could throw them, I don't believe either, that everything they say is misleading.

          Use some common sense...

          Originally Posted by TelegramSam View Post

          Don't you think that is wrong. Even if you don't then it's surely not a good thing for future generations is it?
          Too much of anything is no good for you - including breathing the air in some parts of the world. But I think the biggest killer of all is stress. You can eat all the healthiest foods in the world and NEVER consume HFCS, but that don't mean your life span will be longer or your quality of life will be any better.

          It's a cliche - 42 year old healthy person drops dead of a heart attack, while another who smokes a pack and a half a day lives to be 98.

          Worry more about worrying. Stress kills.

          Originally Posted by TelegramSam View Post

          Wake up everybody and protect your rights. Don't let government and multi-national vested interests destroy your health freedoms.
          LOL - it's been going on for years - since there WAS a US government. If it's not health it's something else. Every day we lose more of our freedom and civil liberties, all in the name of power and money.

          None of this surprises me. FDA and the pharma and food industries work together for the good of...themselves.

          Oh, BTW - what many don't realize is that almost ALL of the pharmaceutical companies have a hand in the vitamin and supplement pie. Most simply buy up small manufacturers and don't put their name on it. They do the same with generic drug makers - so they can make money on their brand AND on the generic versions.

          Personally, I think that BOTH sides of this issue worry too much about convincing the other side they are right. Believe what you believe, let others believe what they believe. We'll have less stress in our lives

          Otherwise, very interesting topic on BOTH sides.

          Mike
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        • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
          Originally Posted by TelegramSam View Post

          Eating as naturally as possible is the best way. But don't forget that soil quality and the use of a century of man made pesticides and fertilizers is stripping nutrients out of our food.






          Wake up.






          You wake up too.





          Just because you haven't heard about it doesn't mean it isn't happening. It is.





          All of the bans are being brought about and pushed through by the top drug companies of the planet and their leaders. They want you to have to pay them money for their "solutions".

          Glad you are aware of this problem and not as blinkered as some "idyuts" on this thread.






          The biggest rip-off is the price of medical care unhealthy people have to pay for one day!





          Yes, this has been threatened many times and it hasn't yet fully gone through. It seems their tactics are working on you as you are now blinded to what could now be about to take place. They have worn you down with all of their "cry-wolf" tactics earlier.

          Well, this time the wolf really is at the door!





          Well, in that case why are you so willing to attack the OP and the seriousness of this issue. If you want to pig out on crap food, remain overweight and eat pounds of sugar each week then fine. A lot of people don't want to live like that. So for you to sit on your high horse and pompously say conspiracy crap or whatever else you deem garbage about this legislative attempt is very irresponsible.

          I don't think there will ever come a day when you can't go out and buy some greasy fat laden burger, but there may come a day when you can't buy a health supplement when you want one.

          Don't you think that is wrong. Even if you don't then it's surely not a good thing for future generations is it?






          Well said. It seems you are more awake about this issue than most.


          Wake up everybody and protect your rights. Don't let government and multi-national vested interests destroy your health freedoms.

          Sam
          I agree with all that too.

          Don't let the government tell you what you can or can't eat or what vitamins you can or can't take.

          Gotta stand up for something or you're just a sheep. Like vegas vince says, most ppl are sheep.
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      • Profile picture of the author 3dfan
        Yeah, very interesting information, thanks for this thread!
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        • Profile picture of the author Vikuna2009+
          Originally Posted by 3dfan View Post

          Yeah, very interesting information, thanks for this thread!


          Sorry guys, did not even realize that I was the one quoting un-reliable sources! However, only time can tell if this is actually going to take effect (but I DO think so).

          For the better of mankind, I hope not. And well, if it does, just goes to prove that whe are all sheep...Got a couple of BILLION dollars to fight it, well, go ahead....

          Just sickens my heart that you MIGHT not be able to put up a fair fight. Whether you belive in taking supplements or not, this is about FREEDOM, freedom that we might no longer have, that's all.

          All the best to you, believers or not.

          P.s. Tim, again, my apology. In my gist (spell check error) I just went gumption and you put me in my place, thanks for that but it was seriously an INNOCENT mistake, lol.

          And no, I'm NOT a conspiracy QUEEN, lol ...
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    • Profile picture of the author madmagician
      Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

      Yes, the high fructose corn syrup was tasty.

      You should try it. STOP EATING OVERPRICED ORGANIC FOOD NOW - IT'S A RIPOFF!!!!!!!!!!!

      Sorry, I just couldn't help myself either.

      For the record, I believe that you believe - it's the video I have a problem with.

      I still think this belongs in the OT, but that's just my opinion.

      Aside from the fact that high fructose corn syrup is really bad for your health, I don't think, judging by your picture, that you should go eat that cake and ice cream either way.

      Most people (more than) die nowadays from a cancer or heart disease. Use your brain. Stay away from processed foods and add a crapton more veggies and fruits into your diet. Bragging about getting off your computer to go eat something that'll make you sick and make you look sick doesn't make you sound cool on a forum or anywhere else.
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
        Originally Posted by madmagician View Post

        Aside from the fact that high fructose corn syrup is really bad for your health, I don't think, judging by your picture, that you should go eat that cake and ice cream either way.

        Most people (more than) die nowadays from a cancer or heart disease. Use your brain. Stay away from processed foods and add a crapton more veggies and fruits into your diet. Bragging about getting off your computer to go eat something that'll make you sick and make you look sick doesn't make you sound cool on a forum or anywhere else.
        So, you're calling me fat? What gives you the right?

        I wasn't trying to sound "cool", I was telling the truth. I like cake and ice cream...so sue me.

        See, that's the problem with the crowd that believes the nonsense sputtered in the videos that were shared. They take it as their God-given right to tell other people how to eat. Unfortunately, they always seem to want to exercise their so-called right as often as humanly possible.

        Anyway...it's a heckuva lot easier for someone to lose weight than it is for someone to stop being a rude jerk.



        By the way, you should have seen what I looked like BEFORE I Photoshopped my avatar.
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        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
          Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

          So, you're calling me fat? What gives you the right?

          I wasn't trying to sound "cool", I was telling the truth. I like cake and ice cream...so sue me.

          See, that's the problem with the crowd that believes the nonsense sputtered in the videos that were shared. They take it as their God-given right to tell other people how to eat. Unfortunately, they always seem to want to exercise their so-called right as often as humanly possible.

          Anyway...it's a heckuva lot easier for someone to lose weight than it is for someone to stop being a rude jerk.



          By the way, you should have seen what I looked like BEFORE I Photoshopped my avatar.
          Think this is bad
          Mention that you are a meat eater to a vegan.

          Note
          That comment is not directed in any way towards the Warrior who I was having that debate with.
          He is one of the few vegans that I respect for his beliefs and the way he presented them.
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        • Profile picture of the author Nonny
          Originally Posted by madmagician View Post

          Most people (more than) die nowadays from a cancer or heart disease. Use your brain.
          That's in large part because people nowadays are much less likely to die from other causes - we all eventually die of something. Our life expectancy just keeps going up, so we must be doing something right.

          200 years that changed the world - Gapminder.org

          And I think it's both ridiculous and rude to give a stranger health advice over the internet based on a picture of his face. You aren't any one here's doctor, nutritionist or mother. What I eat isn't anyone else's concern, just like what you eat isn't anyone else's concern. It's only the business of my green grocer and local supermarket.

          Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

          I like cake and ice cream...so sue me.
          I don't know anyone who doesn't like cake and ice cream. And chocolate and pie (and chocolate pie)!
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        • Profile picture of the author Vikuna2009+
          Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

          I wasn't trying to sound "cool", I was telling the truth. I like cake and ice cream...so sue me.

          Anyway...it's a heckuva lot easier for someone to lose weight than it is for someone to stop being a rude jerk.



          By the way, you should have seen what I looked like BEFORE I Photoshopped my avatar.

          Hi Michael,

          here's a special treat for you :p (and BTW, I LOVE ice cream and cake too, just trying not to over-splurge, l0l.) Take care.







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    • Profile picture of the author X
      I wonder if Michael still feels the
      same -

      http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...rt-attack.html

      Not making light of his situation
      and I haven't watched this video -
      I hope Michael recovers and has
      a healthy future ahead of him.

      But we're not all idiots looking for
      ways to spend extra money on
      worthless food or deprive ourselves
      of "what makes life worth living".

      And my wife will tell you that I hate
      shopping at the health food store
      because it's full of "enlightened"
      people who are absolutely clueless
      that a world around them exists.

      (Still, it's undeniable the difference
      in appearance between people who
      shop at the healthy food store versus
      those at Safeway - if you need
      proof, just pay attention to that)

      You have to ask yourself why herbs
      conflicting with medication is the
      issue - most medications are 100%
      unnecessary (if a person accepts
      responsibility for what they put into
      their mouth), ALL of them come
      with side effects and most afflictions
      can be cured, if not prevented, with
      natural remedies. Somehow the
      human race has made it this far
      without pharmaceuticals and they've
      done little more than make a few
      rich and take away ALL sense of
      responsibility for one's health for
      the majority, which is why we are
      an obese society with serious health
      issues - and that's not JUST physical
      health, it also affects spiritual and
      mental health in significant ways.

      Bottom line: you're being sold out
      and you're fighting for it.

      (I actually laughed the other day
      that "made with real sugar" is now a
      selling point)

      Maybe one day people like Michael
      will recognize that food is an
      addiction like any other - and some
      of us have experienced how much
      better life can be by eating the
      right stuff.

      That said - it's his choice, we all
      have the right to make those choices
      and every choice has a consequence,
      good or bad.

      It's too bad that Michael is enduring
      what he is right now. But, maybe his
      experience will help someone else.

      X



      Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

      Yes, the high fructose corn syrup was tasty.

      You should try it. STOP EATING OVERPRICED ORGANIC FOOD NOW - IT'S A RIPOFF!!!!!!!!!!!

      Sorry, I just couldn't help myself either.

      For the record, I believe that you believe - it's the video I have a problem with.

      I still think this belongs in the OT, but that's just my opinion.
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
        Originally Posted by X View Post

        I wonder if Michael still feels the
        same -

        http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...rt-attack.html

        Not making light of his situation
        and I haven't watched this video -
        I hope Michael recovers and has
        a healthy future ahead of him.

        But we're not all idiots looking for
        ways to spend extra money on
        worthless food or deprive ourselves
        of "what makes life worth living".

        And my wife will tell you that I hate
        shopping at the health food store
        because it's full of "enlightened"
        people who are absolutely clueless
        that a world around them exists.

        (Still, it's undeniable the difference
        in appearance between people who
        shop at the healthy food store versus
        those at Safeway - if you need
        proof, just pay attention to that)

        You have to ask yourself why herbs
        conflicting with medication is the
        issue - most medications are 100%
        unnecessary (if a person accepts
        responsibility for what they put into
        their mouth), ALL of them come
        with side effects and most afflictions
        can be cured, if not prevented, with
        natural remedies. Somehow the
        human race has made it this far
        without pharmaceuticals and they've
        done little more than make a few
        rich and take away ALL sense of
        responsibility for one's health for
        the majority, which is why we are
        an obese society with serious health
        issues - and that's not JUST physical
        health, it also affects spiritual and
        mental health in significant ways.

        Bottom line: you're being sold out
        and you're fighting for it.

        (I actually laughed the other day
        that "made with real sugar" is now a
        selling point)

        Maybe one day people like Michael
        will recognize that food is an
        addiction like any other - and some
        of us have experienced how much
        better life can be by eating the
        right stuff.

        That said - it's his choice, we all
        have the right to make those choices
        and every choice has a consequence,
        good or bad.

        It's too bad that Michael is enduring
        what he is right now. But, maybe his
        experience will help someone else.

        X
        That was a f%^%ing cheap shot.

        Using my condition to promote your god$%$) garbage voodoo nonsense.

        Cheap. Cheap. Cheap.

        I was wondering how long it would take for someone to use my trip to the ER to promote their worthless pile of crap agenda.

        Cheap shot, X. Thanks.

        That's all I will say about it for now as I'm not supposed to get stressed.

        All the best,
        Michael
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        • Profile picture of the author HeySal
          Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

          That was a f%^%ing cheap shot.

          Using my condition to promote your god$%$) garbage voodoo nonsense.

          Cheap. Cheap. Cheap.

          I was wondering how long it would take for someone to use my trip to the ER to promote their worthless pile of crap agenda.

          Cheap shot, X. Thanks.

          That's all I will say about it for now as I'm not supposed to get stressed.

          All the best,
          Michael
          Hi Michael - surprised to see you online again already. Welcome back, Guy -- uh....don't do that again. Seriously.
          I don't think he was attempting to make a cheap shot -- I think it was a serious question about how your stances may have changed in light of your recent illness.
          You have had some very strong opinions so it's just natural to wonder how a heart attack may change them. I will admit that the way he stated his curiosity was a bit derogatory. Don't let it blow you again. Sometimes things just sound worse in black and white than they were intended because we can't hear the tone of voice. Always remember that when you read something - especially something that can be taken personally.

          So --- how are ya? Do you know what caused it? How long is it expected to take you to get full steam again?
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        • Profile picture of the author X
          No Michael, I'm not taking a
          cheap shot at you on any level.

          I think there's a story here and
          it's an important one.

          Sal is right (though I didn't intend
          for anything to sound derogatory).

          Glad to see you're up and around.

          X



          Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

          That was a f%^%ing cheap shot.

          Using my condition to promote your god$%$) garbage voodoo nonsense.

          Cheap. Cheap. Cheap.

          I was wondering how long it would take for someone to use my trip to the ER to promote their worthless pile of crap agenda.

          Cheap shot, X. Thanks.

          That's all I will say about it for now as I'm not supposed to get stressed.

          All the best,
          Michael
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          • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
            Glad to see you are OK Micheal. I have to agree with you on the "cheap shot".

            X, it did come across as derogatory and condecending.
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          • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
            Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

            Hi Michael - surprised to see you online again already. Welcome back, Guy -- uh....don't do that again. Seriously.
            I don't think he was attempting to make a cheap shot -- I think it was a serious question about how your stances may have changed in light of your recent illness.
            You have had some very strong opinions so it's just natural to wonder how a heart attack may change them. I will admit that the way he stated his curiosity was a bit derogatory. Don't let it blow you again. Sometimes things just sound worse in black and white than they were intended because we can't hear the tone of voice. Always remember that when you read something - especially something that can be taken personally.

            So --- how are ya? Do you know what caused it? How long is it expected to take you to get full steam again?
            Hey Sal,



            I think it was just too soon for me to come back to the OT. The line, "people like Michael" is what really did it.

            My previous opinions mainly stemmed from the fact that people were getting too preachy about what everybody should eat. That rubs me the wrong way.

            I appreciate you pointing out the intent of X's thread, and glad you could see how I misread it.

            For the record, I still the whole Codex thing is way overblown and a conspiracy theory of the highest degree. (Please note, I'm quite sure I never mentioned anyone's fashion choices regarding tinfoil)

            I am doing okay, but still very tired and not ready to go full steam ahead (or even half-steam).

            There have already been major changes that I've made. Lots of fruits, veggies, whole grains and very little saturated fat, and 0 trans fat. Plus I am taking walks within the guidelines recommended by my doctor.

            Before too long I will have to post an avatar of the new and improved me.



            I have a follow up with my doctor tomoorw, and will know more then.

            Originally Posted by X View Post

            No Michael, I'm not taking a
            cheap shot at you on any level.

            I think there's a story here and
            it's an important one.

            Sal is right (though I didn't intend
            for anything to sound derogatory).

            Glad to see you're up and around.

            X
            Hi X,

            My apologies for misreading your intent.

            It just may make for a good story. "How a guy who used to eat ice cream for supper got healthy and found a new lease on life".

            Hmmm....I'm supposed to be resting, but I still see the profit potential here.



            All the best,
            The new and improved Michael
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  • There is going to be more pressure for Nutritional Supplement manufacturers to prove their claims. It's that simple. It will put the smaller manufacturers out of business because they will not be able to afford the tests.

    But vitamins are not going away. And real nutrition does not come in pill form.

    People have gone nuts with Marketing... first we have Noni, then Mangosteen, then xango, no it's **** Berry... what next? What fruit from what isolated part of the world can be isolated next? Most of these drinks are sugar water and mixes with other very common fruit juices like blueberries and apple.

    People in Brazil and not living any longer than people in Japan. Do the Japanese east ****? You eat what is local to where you live. It's just food.

    The real problem is so many people are touting vitamins as cures when they are unable to prove the claims.

    I'll still keep selling whatever is available and makes sense.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nonny
    Originally Posted by Vikuna2009+ View Post

    Basically, starting January 1, 2010, your vitamins will be deluted down to 1/10 strenght to what they are now. If you want the full version, you are going to need a prescription with a doctor and pay 10 times as much.
    Unfortunately, you've been mislead by a scaremonger.

    This is from the Codex Alimentarius FAQ
    FAQs
    R1: Will Codex make all nutritional supplements only available by prescription? Will Codex ban all supplements and make vitamins illegal the same way heroin is illegal? Will all natural herbs and alternative remedies be banned by Codex?
    These are some of the many unfounded rumours about Codex that can be found on the internet. The Guidelines for Vitamin and Mineral Food Supplements (CAC/GL 55-2005) adopted in 2005 do not contain provisions for the prescription or prohibition of any nutrient supplements. They do not deal with natural herbs and remedies at all (see also W1)

    [snip]

    R3: Why are there so many rumours about Codex on the internet? Where do they come from?
    These rumours started some years back when one of Codex Committees began work on guidelines for vitamin and mineral supplements (see W1). They appear to be linked to advocacy groups who wrongly believe that Codex is a threat to freedom of choice especially concerning vitamin and mineral supplements (see also R1). These rumours are self-reproducing through chain email messages and other low-cost means of communication.
    You can read the actual guidelines here:
    Official Standards List
    3.2.1 The minimum level of each vitamin and/or mineral contained in a vitamin and mineral food supplement per daily portion of consumption as suggested by the manufacturer should be 15% of the recommended daily intake as determined by FAO/WHO.

    3.2.2 Maximum amounts of vitamins and minerals in vitamin and mineral food supplements per daily portion of consumption as recommended by the manufacturer shall be set, taking the following criteria into account:
    (a) upper safe levels of vitamins and minerals established by scientific risk assessment based on generally accepted scientific data, taking into consideration, as appropriate, the varying degrees of sensitivity of different consumer groups;

    (b) the daily intake of vitamins and minerals from other dietary sources.
    When the maximum levels are set, due account may be taken of the reference intake values of vitamins and minerals for the population. This provision should not lead to setting of maximum levels that are solely based on recommended nutrient intakes (e. g. Population Reference Intake or Recommended Daily Allowance values).
    I can't see how this will have any effect on the multivitamin that's currently on my shelf.
    Herbs are going down the drain as well but I'm not sure when. Same with garlic, they already tried to make it illegal in Canada but did not pass (yet).
    I assume you mean this legislation:
    Bill C-6 - Canada Consumer Product Safety Act - Health Canada

    It would only affect selling garlic and herbs as medicinal dietary supplements, not as foodstuffs. And those items can be sold if they have been tested for safety and no false health claims are made. And I personally think it's high time the laws because of poor quality control by supplement manufacturers, and partially because supplement sellers make false health claims about what the supplements can do while neglecting to inform people of the potential side effects.

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...usxCQD98N93HG0

    Yes, it will be more expensive. But people desperate for garlic can head to the supermarket and get theirs the old fashioned way.
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      The DSHEA act deregulated the industry. You got it backwards.

      Originally Posted by Katie Byrd View Post

      The Dr. in this video mentions DSHEA that was passed in 1994. That was another one that brought the quacks out of the woodwork. In the end, the regulations were very positive and gave the nutrition industry a much needed clean sweep to clear out all the garbage that was on the market.
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      • Profile picture of the author Vikuna2009+
        Thank you guys (and gals) for all of your responses, justified or not. /all I wanted to do, is to inform you that this is real.

        Let me ask you a question, since this is life-transforming, how come the press is doing NOTHING??? Since we are all Warriors, why do you not contact your local press and have them do an article about this?

        Just a thought... (But probably too late...).

        'Anyway, a WARRIORn never gives up, right????!!!!
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        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
          You haven't done that yet. Sure, there is a codex alimentarius, but can you point to one part of it that says prices will increase by 1000% starting on Jan 1st of 2010? Or, can you point to one part that says people won't be able to buy their vitamins and supplements anymore?

          I'll bet you a nickel that prices won't jump by 1000% on Jan 1st 2010.

          The reason the press isn't covering this is because it looks like another run of the mill conspiracy theory. I haven't seen anything yet to convince me otherwise besides some weird ass lecturers talking. In fact, I've seen more reasons to believe it's the same old group who pushes the Illuminati, New World Order, 9-11 truthers, north american union conspiracy bullcrap on us.

          Originally Posted by Vikuna2009+ View Post

          Thank you guys (and gals) for all of your responses, justified or not. /all I wanted to do, is to inform you that this is real.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    Thanks Nonny and Katie,

    But please stop trying to confuse them with facts.

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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
    Good nutrition is for suckers!
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  • Profile picture of the author LB
    It always amazes me how trusting warriors on this board seem to be of government.

    "Well, they're just trying to help but they're sort of incompetent"

    When any sort of alternative info is brought forward it's not long before tinfoil hat comments are thrown about.

    P.S. High fructose corn syrup often contains mercury. Study Finds High-Fructose Corn Syrup Contains Mercury - washingtonpost.com

    But, I guess if we laugh about it then it's OK...there's my tinfoil talking again...
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    When did I mention any level of trust or distrust for the government. My points have nothing to do with the government, and everything to do with the person in the video.

    You don't have to trust the government to recognize a nut when you see one.

    Oh, and as far as HFCS goes, I couldn't give two rips about it. I like junk food, and I will continue to enjoy it. The only difference is I don't go around preaching telling everyone that what they should eat.

    You eat what you want to eat, but let me eat what I want to eat.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kevin Riley
      Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post


      You eat what you want to eat, but let me eat what I want to eat.
      But you don't mind that the government would tell you what to eat? {Lots more to say here about this, but I will keep politics out of this in respect to the forum}
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
        Originally Posted by Kevin Riley View Post

        But you don't mind that the government would tell you what to eat? {Lots more to say here about this, but I will keep politics out of this in respect to the forum}
        Excellent point, Kevin; no way to disagree with that. I am just as concerned that the governmet tells us what we can't eat, or what they will eventually tell us not to eat.

        I don't buy into the OP's video at all, but I guess I can see how any changes to the current system of things could have an impact on those of us who market nutrition-related products.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
    Tinfoil is for suckers!
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    A Shakespeare play comes to mind...

    Much Ado About Nothing
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  • Profile picture of the author The Pension Guy
    Hmmm...
    I went to that article in the Washington Post and was struck by this sentence:

    HFCS has replaced sugar as the sweetener in many beverages and foods such as breads, cereals, breakfast bars, lunch meats, yogurts, soups and condiments. On average, Americans consume about 12 teaspoons per day of HFCS...

    The correct sentence would be: in many JUNK beverages and foods. Period.

    I know HFCS is not good for human consumption. Just avoid it: don't drink soda ever. I don't and I don't miss it. As for the rest of the foods listed there - REAL bread, REAL cereals, REAL meat, REAL yougurt, REAL soups and condiments do not have sugar and don't require any sugar, so there is nothing to replace.

    Believe me, I cook every day, so I know what I am talking about!
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Nonny - the Codex Ameritus is hundreds of pages and you picked out a few paragraphs? You better do some researching on the other 400 plus pages.
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    • Profile picture of the author entry
      Alot is suppose to be in the pipeline for 2010 apparently
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    • Profile picture of the author Nonny
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Nonny - the Codex Ameritus is hundreds of pages and you picked out a few paragraphs? You better do some researching on the other 400 plus pages.
      I could stay up all night But the section on vitamin supplements is only 3 pages long.

      ~ Peggy
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  • Profile picture of the author admin
    Administrator
    I absolutely 100% agree with the wine and the cigars. I believe they should be sold as life extension products.
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    • Profile picture of the author Thomas
      Originally Posted by admin View Post

      I absolutely 100% agree with the wine and the cigars. I believe they should be sold as life extension products.
      And coffee, vodka, and Guinness... they've all kept me alive through thick and thin.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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      • Profile picture of the author Adrian Cooper
        Originally Posted by alexa_s View Post

        Wine is more or less sold as a life extension product. In Europe, anyway. There's overwhelming evidence that people who drink wine live longer. Cigars maybe not, but they should be sold that way anyway.
        Yes, in fact a glass of red wine per day is now recommended.

        White and Rose is not the same though.

        The tastiest life extension foods are the purple fruits - blueberry etc.

        Don't get me started on ****
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeff Williams
    Originally Posted by Vikuna2009+ View Post

    YouTube - Codex Alimentarius P1

    So, if you are in the nutrition field, what are you going to do?
    Just an idea:

    1. Use the Codex scare to convince customers to stock up now
    2. Raise prices & offer discounts on bulk orders
    3. Move into lateral niches people will be looking for should this occur (prepping, survival, homemade/black market supplements, hydroponics, gardening, etc.)

    Couldn't hurt, right?

    -Jeff
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  • Profile picture of the author Vikuna2009+
    Here is a kernel of info for you...


    Hee, hee, hee.
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  • Profile picture of the author Johnathan
    There are some interesting things you should note:

    1. Go into pretty much any superstore (at least in Canada), and read the ingredients. On most 'processed' food (i.e., canned food, 'mixed' food, etc, etc) -- you will find 'sugar' listed as one of the ingredients. (other names: fructose, glucose, cane sugar, etc, etc). Even the "organic" soya milk has "sugar" in it, and there have been some 'really' strange commercials on t.v., where it shows a basketball player playing basketball -- and the commercial says "Do you need ENERGY? Then you should drink CHOCOLATE MILK!". How off is that?

    2. Another interesting thing that has been said in various media sources is that apparently Fluoride is very detrimental to health, which happens to be in 99% of the popular toothpaste brands. Apparently (going back about 75 years), fluoride was a chemical processing by-product, and there were huge stores of excess floride that was toxic left in a concentrated form, so "they" decided to redistribute it through water supplies (floridated water) in a diluted form, because it would not have any noticeable/immediate effect, and would be easy to disperse.

    3. Michael O. -- rather than laughing at "Vikuna2009+" just because he says something you either don't agree with or simply don't understand, you should actually do a bit of research rather than believing what the t.v. tells you and trying to put him down. If you want a "t.v." example that you might be able to relate to, you should watch the movie "Supersize me" -- a guy that basically goes on a McDonald's diet for a month. You will be able to watch the entire movie rather than just 2.40 minutes because it is entertaining, while perhaps learning something. And this is just one guy that ate this kind of junk food for one month. Have you ever really looked into what effect your diet has on your health, your success, and your well being in general, or do you just snicker and laugh when someone says something you don't agree with?

    Anyways, interesting post Vikuna2009+, thanks.
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    • Profile picture of the author Vikuna2009+
      Originally Posted by Johnathan View Post

      There are some interesting things you should note:

      1. Go into pretty much any superstore (at least in Canada), and read the ingredients. On most 'processed' food (i.e., canned food, 'mixed' food, etc, etc) -- you will find 'sugar' listed as one of the ingredients. (other names: fructose, glucose, cane sugar, etc, etc). Even the "organic" soya milk has "sugar" in it, and there have been some 'really' strange commercials on t.v., where it shows a basketball player playing basketball -- and the commercial says "Do you need ENERGY? Then you should drink CHOCOLATE MILK!". How off is that?

      2. Another interesting thing that has been said in various media sources is that apparently Fluoride is very detrimental to health, which happens to be in 99% of the popular toothpaste brands. Apparently (going back about 75 years), fluoride was a chemical processing by-product, and there were huge stores of excess floride that was toxic left in a concentrated form, so "they" decided to redistribute it through water supplies (floridated water) in a diluted form, because it would not have any noticeable/immediate effect, and would be easy to disperse.

      3. Michael O. -- rather than laughing at "Vikuna2009+" just because he says something you either don't agree with or simply don't understand, you should actually do a bit of research rather than believing what the t.v. tells you and trying to put him down. If you want a "t.v." example that you might be able to relate to, you should watch the movie "Supersize me" -- a guy that basically goes on a McDonald's diet for a month. You will be able to watch the entire movie rather than just 2.40 minutes because it is entertaining, while perhaps learning something. And this is just one guy that ate this kind of junk food for one month. Have you ever really looked into what effect your diet has on your health, your success, and your well being in general, or do you just snicker and laugh when someone says something you don't agree with?

      Anyways, interesting post Vikuna2009+, thanks.


      Thank you Johnathan. I'm not a health freak but I DO read labels and its really scary what they call "FOOD" these days, its all about making a profit.

      As far as Codex A goes, its real and it is coming.
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
      Originally Posted by Johnathan View Post

      3. Michael O. -- rather than laughing at "Vikuna2009+" just because he says something you either don't agree with or simply don't understand, you should actually do a bit of research rather than believing what the t.v. tells you and trying to put him down. If you want a "t.v." example that you might be able to relate to, you should watch the movie "Supersize me" -- a guy that basically goes on a McDonald's diet for a month. You will be able to watch the entire movie rather than just 2.40 minutes because it is entertaining, while perhaps learning something. And this is just one guy that ate this kind of junk food for one month. Have you ever really looked into what effect your diet has on your health, your success, and your well being in general, or do you just snicker and laugh when someone says something you don't agree with?

      Anyways, interesting post Vikuna2009+, thanks.
      I have seen Supersize Me. It's an awesome movie, very enjoyable and informative. In fact, I enjoy almost everything Morgan Spurlock has done.

      So, you can stop jumping to conclusions.

      And I wasn't snickering or laughing. I truly believe people will believe anything, and that the video in the OP is a bunch of nonsense.

      For the record, I have seen Supersize Me several times, and I still enjoy getting double cheeseburgers and fries from McDonald's.

      All the best,
      Michael
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Floride is a natural ingredient in water. The notion that the famous "they" decided to redistribute it in drinking water because there was no other way to store the chemical by products is ridiculous and laughable. It ranks right up there with the floride conspriracy theory in the 50s which said the commies were using it to impose a socialist regime. This CT was lampooned in Stanley Kubrick's 1964 film Dr. Strangelove, in which the character General Jack D. Ripper initiates a nuclear war in the hope of thwarting a communist plot to "sap and impurify" the "precious bodily fluids" of the American people with fluoridated water.

      Originally Posted by Johnathan View Post

      2. Another interesting thing that has been said in various media sources is that apparently Fluoride is very detrimental to health, which happens to be in 99% of the popular toothpaste brands. Apparently (going back about 75 years), fluoride was a chemical processing by-product, and there were huge stores of excess floride that was toxic left in a concentrated form, so "they" decided to redistribute it through water supplies (floridated water) in a diluted form, because it would not have any noticeable/immediate effect, and would be easy to disperse.
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      • Profile picture of the author Phnx
        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        Floride is a natural ingredient in water. The notion that the famous "they" decided to redistribute it in drinking water because there was no other way to store the chemical by products is ridiculous and laughable.
        Sure about that Tim? You might want to ponder Christopher Brysons investigation into fluoride. He's an award winning BBC journalist and producer, sceptic, and can in no sense be classed as a "conspiracy theorist". He didn't expect to find anything alarming, but he did, and he spent 10 years researching the subject. Ditto the neuro-scientist who was asked to check the effects on the brains of children. When the science concluded that yes, childrens IQs were being lowered, she was fired.

        Stalin didn't have it put in the water supply at the Gulags for no reason.

        As marketers, you guys should appreciate how it was done. The 'spin' can be laid at the feet of Edward L Bernays.

        Here's an interview with Bryson where he discusses his research.

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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    You know what? The original post may have been in the guise of how it will impact online sales.

    BUT instead, it has become a way for people to climb up on there high freaking horse and tell us what to eat.

    What does that have to do with making money online? Nothing.

    You can choose to believe whatever you like, but stop cramming your BS down my throat.
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  • Profile picture of the author George Wright
    I posted a long time ago on the old Warrior forum that garlic would cure a tooth ache every time. I had several Warriors say they tried it and it worked for them. Now I found that oregano oil works just as well and you don't have to worry about the odor. Well now I smell like pizza. LOL

    George Wright
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    • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
      Originally Posted by George Wright View Post

      I posted a long time ago on the old Warrior forum that garlic would cure a tooth ache every time. I had several Warriors say they tried it and it worked for them. Now I found that oregano oil works just as well and you don't have to worry about the odor. Well now I smell like pizza. LOL

      George Wright
      I tried garlic for my tooth ache. Worked like a charm.

      I also just got some oil of oregano. Whoa, this stuff is powerful. It could probably kill the pain of a freshly amputated limb. It's 20x more powerful than ambesol. The taste is 1000x nastier than any medicine you've ever tried, but it works really well. Will get me through until I can get to the doctor.

      Doing some research on the oregano oil. I'm surprised this stuff isn't more popular.

      Dave Maschke
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  • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

      Wow - amazing thread

      Here in Greece, in the smallish city (large town really) I've lived in for the past 8 years, I've never been healthier. Getting away from the supplements, the processed foods and all of that tripe in the US has worked wonders.

      Practically everything we eat is fresh, natural, we get plenty of daily exercise and the facts are my cholesterol is textbook normal, my blood pressure is perfect for a 20 year-old (I'm 47) and my family is as healthy as can be.

      We live the Mediterranean lifestyle - and considering the numbers of 80 and 90 year-olds still around here riding their bikes, working their gardens and still fit as can be, you'll never convince me that supplements are important.

      A healthy lifestyle doesn't come from pills....
      Mike it's well known, well at least I have known that Mediterranean food is about the healthiest food in the world if not the healthiest.
      You're a lucky (or smart) man to be where you are.
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    • Profile picture of the author Vikuna2009+
      Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

      Wow - amazing thread

      A healthy lifestyle doesn't come from pills....


      You live a very fortunate life Mike (I've been there many, many times myself) but some people do depend on their vitamins and now its going to be so much harder, not to mention expensive.
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
        Originally Posted by Vikuna2009+ View Post

        You live a very fortunate life Mike (I've been there many, many times myself) but some people do depend on their vitamins and now its going to be so much harder, not to mention expensive.
        if you 'depend' on vitamins then you need to stop eating your food from a styrofoam box. Plus the supplement market has absolutely no regulation. You dont know if you're getting the right doseage or even the advertised dosage.
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
          Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

          if you 'depend' on vitamins then you need to stop eating your food from a styrofoam box. Plus the supplement market has absolutely no regulation. You dont know if you're getting the right doseage or even the advertised dosage.
          This depends. That is partly true.

          I can tell you that any major pharmaceutical company that gets into vitamin production has to file with the FDA, is subject to inspections and is regulated.

          I can't speak for the entire industry though, and I DO know the regulation is not quite as stringent...
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          • Profile picture of the author ThomM
            Ah Tim the only natural parts of water are Hydrogen and Oxygen.
            Any thing else where either added by nature or man.
            It is found naturally in water though especially in water from underground sources.
            So I think you ment it is found in water even if it wasn't placed there by man.
            Also there are many types of fluoride. Here are the fluorides found in water naturally and the ones man adds.

            Solutions of inorganic fluorides in water contain F− and bifluoride HF2−. Few inorganic fluorides are soluble in water without undergoing significant hydrolysis. Examples of inorganic fluorides include hydrofluoric acid (HF), sodium fluoride (NaF), and uranium hexafluoride (UF6).

            Originally, sodium fluoride was used to fluoridate water, however, hexafluorosilicic acid (H2SiF6) and its salt sodium hexafluorosilicate (Na2SiF6) are more commonly used additives, especially in the United States.
            So there is a difference in what occurs naturally and what is added by man.
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            • Profile picture of the author ThomM
              I think the reality of death is you are going to die when you are going to die.
              Here's two examples from my life.
              I knew a gentleman who was a vegetarian, never drank more then one or two glasses of red wine a day, never smoked, exercised daily, never drank coffee or sodas. He died at 42 from rectal cancer which he tried to cure using the holistic approach.
              My last wife drank on occasion, ate whatever she wanted, didn't exercise, drank coffee, and smoked cigarettes. She died at 42 from rectal cancer, that she tried to cure using conventional medicines.
              Now which lifestyle was the right lifestyle?
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            • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
              Yeh, if it's added by nature then isn't it natural? I think that's the correct term. The point is people have been drinking water with flouride in it for...well, thousands of years perhaps.

              People can drink water without minerals. It's called distilled water. Anyone like to drink distilled water? I like distilled water when it's in beer and wine. By the way, I think distilled water is probably more un-natural than mineral water.

              Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

              Ah Tim the only natural parts of water are Hydrogen and Oxygen.
              Any thing else where either added by nature or man.
              It is found naturally in water though especially in water from underground sources.
              So I think you ment it is found in water even if it wasn't placed there by man.
              Also there are many types of fluoride. Here are the fluorides found in water naturally and the ones man adds.


              So there is a difference in what occurs naturally and what is added by man.
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              • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                Yeh, if it's added by nature then isn't it natural? I think that's the correct term. The point is people have been drinking water with flouride in it for...well, thousands of years perhaps.

                People can drink water without minerals. It's called distilled water. Anyone like to drink distilled water? I like distilled water when it's in beer and wine. By the way, I think distilled water is probably more un-natural than mineral water.
                My point with the fluoride that everyone here seems to be missing or passing over is that there are different types of fluoride and the types that are in water naturally and the types that are added by man are totally different.
                You are basically saying that fluoride in water is safe, and the natural types of fluoride in water are. The others are saying that fluoride in water is dangerous and the types that are put in by man may well be.
                Neither side is acknowledging that you are talking about different types of fluoride.
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                • Profile picture of the author TelegramSam
                  Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                  I think the reality of death is you are going to die when you are going to die.

                  I understand your personal loss that you mentioned etc. I do.

                  However, the above sentence is a highly generalised and irresponsible thing to say.

                  It's a bit like saying, "well if i end up a millionaire, i end up a millionaire".

                  The result of these two statements is that they both lead to inaction and at best irresponsible behaviour...

                  I may as well eat 10 bigmacs each day, do not exercise, smoke like a chimney, not work hard and not build any more websites.

                  Who knows, maybe that is the path to happiness, great health and a way to end up rich.

                  Get real.



                  Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

                  Yeah when you're going to die, you're going to die. But all things being equal, there are things you can do to keep that from happening sooner than later. But if your body is predisposed to something, you can eat all the berries and nuts and do yoga until you twist yourself into a knot, thats not going to stop nature

                  MANY people have overcome and beaten all sorts of "predisposed" conditions.

                  Take the right action and the human being has amazing capacity to overcome all sorts of adversity.

                  Believe otherwise and you are selling yourself short on what you are truly capable of.
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                • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                  How are they different Thom? Is one more potent than the other?

                  I'm saying certain levels are safe.

                  Actually I didn't say the natural types of fluoride in water are safe. Just the opposite actually. I said sometimes they have to lower the levels. That's why they had those ugly looking brown teeth in Colorado.



                  Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                  My point with the fluoride that everyone here seems to be missing or passing over is that there are different types of fluoride and the types that are in water naturally and the types that are added by man are totally different.
                  You are basically saying that fluoride in water is safe, and the natural types of fluoride in water are. The others are saying that fluoride in water is dangerous and the types that are put in by man may well be.
                  Neither side is acknowledging that you are talking about different types of fluoride.
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        • Profile picture of the author Vikuna2009+
          Originally Posted by Vikuna2009+
          You live a very fortunate life Mike (I've been there many, many times myself) but some people do depend on their vitamins and now its going to be so much harder, not to mention expensive.



          Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

          if you 'depend' on vitamins then you need to stop eating your food from a styrofoam box. Plus the supplement market has absolutely no regulation. You dont know if you're getting the right doseage or even the advertised dosage.

          No, I do not depend on vitamins but what I do is UNDERSTAND the ramifications (both health-wise and money-wise) that implementing the Codex Alimentarius will have on the human race.

          And NO, I do not eat my food from a styro foam box , far from it as a matter of fact, lol.
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  • Profile picture of the author Randy Bheites
    Oy. Big Pharma makes billions selling vitamins. Thery're not going to let the goobermint mess with that income stream.

    I'm not really worried that my health supplement niche sites are suddenly going to go belly up.
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  • Profile picture of the author acreativetouch
    Here are some natural substances that already been chopped due to false scientific data or political maneuvering:

    MaHuang--used to treat respiratory illnesses including tuberculosis, asthma, lung cancer--dosage--3 - 9 gm. Marketed in US as a "weight loss" supplement, found to cause heart attack when used in excess. Asian physicians have used this herb safely for over 6,000 years IN VERY SMALL QUANTITIES because of toxicity. An amount to cause weight loss IS A TOXIC overdose! DUH! Ma Huang - Chinese Ephedra- Chinese Herbal Medicine, Chinese herb pictures & information (TCM), weblog, discussion board, bulletin board, forums

    Hydrogn Peroxide Chinics: Used for about 200 years IV or internally to cure many diseases---including cancer. One death was reported in that time in 2005, there was reported one death. So, the clinics are banned. The Story Behind The Peroxide Therapy Death In South Carolina - Share The Wealth

    colloidal silver ban: kills over 600 different viruses and bacteria--including man-made. The FDA and WHO are working on a ban. Educate-Yourself.org-FDA Poised to Ban Colloidal Silver

    Cannabis: During the American Revolution, was so valued as a crop for everything from cloth to paper to fuel for lamps to rope to MEDICINE. Was in the US National Pharmocepia until 1929. Cannabis has been used for centuries over all continents by thousands of various nationalities and tribes to treat a variety of illnesses from depression to cancer to chronic pain. Banned as it causes "insanity in mexicans and the dark races" in the 1930's.

    Tryptophan: Natural ingredient in turkey. Widely used to aid in sleep, and ease symptoms of depression, anxiety, bi-polar disorder. ( competes with Prozac ) Banned as it causes a deadly flu-like disorder " Eosinophilia-Myalgia Syndrome / EMS ". The FDA Ban of L-Tryptophan: Politics, Profits and Prozac

    That is just a FEW of POWERFUL natural medicines that have been X-Nayed from public use because of competition with drugs. Thousands died from Vioxx, and the statistics were ignored. Equal ( aspertaime ) remains on the market and in wide use even though it is shown to cause brain cancer, seizures, stroke and death. Dr. Rick Online: Excitotoxins: The Taste that Kills
    Now, when you see a commercial for Lyrica, they put a disclaimer that it causes suicidial tendancies in "some individuals".

    This IS Codex slowly being implemented so that the public won't notice the change when it's in full force. They will just accept it and continue with their lives....slowly dying from disease due to being slowly poisioned and malnutrititon while they go to the doctors for "drugs" to cure them.

    So, what are going to do? Just lay down and die or take charge of our health and take responsibility of what we feed our children and ourselves?

    dorothy
    ( it's late, sorry for the spelling )
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    Phoenix Natural Health

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    • Profile picture of the author Vikuna2009+
      Originally Posted by acreativetouch View Post

      Here are some natural substances that already been chopped due to false scientific data or political maneuvering:

      MaHuang--used to treat respiratory illnesses including tuberculosis, asthma, lung cancer--dosage--3 - 9 gm. Marketed in US as a "weight loss" supplement, found to cause heart attack when used in excess. Asian physicians have used this herb safely for over 6,000 years IN VERY SMALL QUANTITIES because of toxicity. An amount to cause weight loss IS A TOXIC overdose! DUH! Ma Huang - Chinese Ephedra- Chinese Herbal Medicine, Chinese herb pictures & information (TCM), weblog, discussion board, bulletin board, forums

      Hydrogn Peroxide Chinics: Used for about 200 years IV or internally to cure many diseases---including cancer. One death was reported in that time in 2005, there was reported one death. So, the clinics are banned. The Story Behind The Peroxide Therapy Death In South Carolina - Share The Wealth

      colloidal silver ban: kills over 600 different viruses and bacteria--including man-made. The FDA and WHO are working on a ban. Educate-Yourself.org-FDA Poised to Ban Colloidal Silver

      Cannabis: During the American Revolution, was so valued as a crop for everything from cloth to paper to fuel for lamps to rope to MEDICINE. Was in the US National Pharmocepia until 1929. Cannabis has been used for centuries over all continents by thousands of various nationalities and tribes to treat a variety of illnesses from depression to cancer to chronic pain. Banned as it causes "insanity in mexicans and the dark races" in the 1930's.

      Tryptophan: Natural ingredient in turkey. Widely used to aid in sleep, and ease symptoms of depression, anxiety, bi-polar disorder. ( competes with Prozac ) Banned as it causes a deadly flu-like disorder " Eosinophilia-Myalgia Syndrome / EMS ". The FDA Ban of L-Tryptophan: Politics, Profits and Prozac

      That is just a FEW of POWERFUL natural medicines that have been X-Nayed from public use because of competition with drugs. Thousands died from Vioxx, and the statistics were ignored. Equal ( aspertaime ) remains on the market and in wide use even though it is shown to cause brain cancer, seizures, stroke and death. Dr. Rick Online: Excitotoxins: The Taste that Kills
      Now, when you see a commercial for Lyrica, they put a disclaimer that it causes suicidial tendancies in "some individuals".

      This IS Codex slowly being implemented so that the public won't notice the change when it's in full force. They will just accept it and continue with their lives....slowly dying from disease due to being slowly poisioned and malnutrititon while they go to the doctors for "drugs" to cure them.

      So, what are going to do? Just lay down and die or take charge of our health and take responsibility of what we feed our children and ourselves?

      dorothy
      ( it's late, sorry for the spelling )


      Thank you for that, Eva
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    • Profile picture of the author linguistics
      Originally Posted by acreativetouch View Post

      Here are some natural substances that already been chopped due to false scientific data or political maneuvering:

      MaHuang--used to treat respiratory illnesses including tuberculosis, asthma, lung cancer--dosage--3 - 9 gm. Marketed in US as a "weight loss" supplement, found to cause heart attack when used in excess. Asian physicians have used this herb safely for over 6,000 years IN VERY SMALL QUANTITIES because of toxicity. An amount to cause weight loss IS A TOXIC overdose! DUH! Ma Huang - Chinese Ephedra- Chinese Herbal Medicine, Chinese herb pictures & information (TCM), weblog, discussion board, bulletin board, forums

      Hydrogn Peroxide Chinics: Used for about 200 years IV or internally to cure many diseases---including cancer. One death was reported in that time in 2005, there was reported one death. So, the clinics are banned. The Story Behind The Peroxide Therapy Death In South Carolina - Share The Wealth

      colloidal silver ban: kills over 600 different viruses and bacteria--including man-made. The FDA and WHO are working on a ban. Educate-Yourself.org-FDA Poised to Ban Colloidal Silver

      Cannabis: During the American Revolution, was so valued as a crop for everything from cloth to paper to fuel for lamps to rope to MEDICINE. Was in the US National Pharmocepia until 1929. Cannabis has been used for centuries over all continents by thousands of various nationalities and tribes to treat a variety of illnesses from depression to cancer to chronic pain. Banned as it causes "insanity in mexicans and the dark races" in the 1930's.

      Tryptophan: Natural ingredient in turkey. Widely used to aid in sleep, and ease symptoms of depression, anxiety, bi-polar disorder. ( competes with Prozac ) Banned as it causes a deadly flu-like disorder " Eosinophilia-Myalgia Syndrome / EMS ". The FDA Ban of L-Tryptophan: Politics, Profits and Prozac

      That is just a FEW of POWERFUL natural medicines that have been X-Nayed from public use because of competition with drugs. Thousands died from Vioxx, and the statistics were ignored. Equal ( aspertaime ) remains on the market and in wide use even though it is shown to cause brain cancer, seizures, stroke and death. Dr. Rick Online: Excitotoxins: The Taste that Kills
      Now, when you see a commercial for Lyrica, they put a disclaimer that it causes suicidial tendancies in "some individuals".

      This IS Codex slowly being implemented so that the public won't notice the change when it's in full force. They will just accept it and continue with their lives....slowly dying from disease due to being slowly poisioned and malnutrititon while they go to the doctors for "drugs" to cure them.

      So, what are going to do? Just lay down and die or take charge of our health and take responsibility of what we feed our children and ourselves?

      dorothy
      ( it's late, sorry for the spelling )
      X'd out from public use? What are you talking about, most of the items that you mentioned are very well still available.
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  • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
    That's it, now I believe Oksa works for the FDA/Gov. He's saying laws that have already been passed are make believe, people who know about laws being debated and passed in DC are conspiracy theorists and he promotes the virtues of high fructose corn syrup. There's no other explanation.

    Why can't the government just let people eat what they want to and not regulate everything. I'm so sad Let the junk food people eat junk food, let the healthy people take their vitamins and eat their health food!!! And Canada really did try to ban garlic (except by prescription)fortunately for them it didn't pass. Can you imagine going to your doctor for garlic so you can make spaghetti sauce????
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    • Profile picture of the author Vikuna2009+
      Originally Posted by valerieSONORA View Post

      Can you imagine going to your doctor for garlic so you can make spaghetti sauce????
      Ha, ha, now THAT is funny , but not really ! The sad truth is, Codex Alimentarius will ruin MANY lives.
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    • Profile picture of the author TelegramSam
      Originally Posted by valerieSONORA View Post

      Let the junk food people eat junk food, let the healthy people take their vitamins and eat their health food!!!
      Well said.

      I agree 100% so long as the healthy people don't have to pay the medical bills of the junk food eaters!
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
        Originally Posted by TelegramSam View Post

        Well said.

        I agree 100% so long as the healthy people don't have to pay the medical bills of the junk food eaters!
        Well, we're heading for socialized medicine, aren't we? We'll all be paying for everyone's health care before long.

        That bothers me WAY more than this Codex debate...
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        • Profile picture of the author HeySal
          Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

          Well, we're heading for socialized medicine, aren't we? We'll all be paying for everyone's health care before long.

          That bothers me WAY more than this Codex debate...
          What scares me is the combo of the two. Soon you won't be able to get real nutrition - and there is a clause in the social med that allows the gov to tell doctors who they are NOT allowed to treat. Conform or die, more or less.
          Then we have the gardening laws coming in, too.

          Within the next year we might take our place as the most controlled population ever in the history of the planet.


          Now you people get off Mike......if you have followed him long enough you know he also laughed at every one of us who were predicting an economic crisis - I believe the word he used was "conspiracy nut case". He has laughed at the thought of a few things that have already transpired so if he wants to continue gaffawing, then let him continue to do so. No one is forced to listen to any opinion on here - even those which are based solidly in fact and grounded in actions already being taken. He is just as able to read as the rest of us and if he isn't concerned about what legislation is doing - then it will be his own problem very soon. If he didn't learn to humble his opinions from being wrong about the economic crash - just take some humor from his railings and get over it.

          CODEX has already been signed in -- they waited until 2010 to activate it because of their other little social engineering "adjustments" that needed to be worked first.
          They are putting the polishing touches on everything now.

          And - off topic health --
          You do realize that pollution produces calories as well, yes? Any plant/animal derivative pollutant (petroleum/coal are the majors here and includes plastics, fibers - all sorts of crap) is recognizable as "nutrition" by the body and stored in the fat cells - where because of it's alterations, it does not act normally and it will shut down fat control systems at the cellular level -- which means suddenly it is completely impossible for a person to lose weight. It also screws with DNA and causes many syndromes and diseases.
          The only way we can relieve ourselves of these pollutants is to go back to natural - and our population levels are too high to supply everyone with naturals. Make your own inferences from that statement - I have become severely bored with being labeled a "nut case".

          Whoever it was in an early portion of this thread that told me spread the word -- if you read the other CODEX thread in the OT, you will find I was active in spreading the word in 2005 when the danger first arose. The gov got 50 mil letters (that's just letters, didn't include emails and phone calls) and still marched their self righteous little asses over to Italy and signed this proclamation. Here it is almost 5 years later and about 10 purposefully harmful acts to our freedoms uncovered and how many unconstitutional laws signed? People who are not awake now - aren't going to wake up. IF they are still that programmed and niave, let them suffer the consequences. I'm learning how to save my own behind and am not concerned with saving those so mentally dysfunctional that they can't read a bill yet can laugh at people who are concerned about it's possible and eventual reprecussions. I'm not going to waste my time busting slip programming.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tyrus Antas
    I've heard Big Pharma is conspiring to ban dihydrogen monoxide. Somebody do something!

    Tyrus
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
    flouride is a natural part of water? uh....
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Sure. Minerals are found in spring water since they get filtered through the earth. Here's a site that sells spring water and they advertise it as natural flouride water:

      Poland Spring - Sources Of Water, Mineral Contents & The Water Cycle - Know H2O | Nestlé

      Many times the flouride in ground water is much higher than the level in tap water. Sometimes the water needs to have the flouride level lowered.

      In the late 1800's people noticed in some parts of Colorado the population had brown teeth. They called this the Colorado Brown Stain. They started investigating and found also that the local kids had low cases of cavities. What they eventually found out was that the natural flouride levels were high which caused dental fluorosis and prevented the cavities.

      Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

      flouride is a natural part of water? uh....
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
    Yeah when you're going to die, you're going to die. But all things being equal, there are things you can do to keep that from happening sooner than later. But if your body is predisposed to something, you can eat all the berries and nuts and do yoga until you twist yourself into a knot, thats not going to stop nature
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
    you're not going to be being predisposed to cancer. all the **** in the world wont change genetics.
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    • Profile picture of the author TelegramSam
      Thousands of people have successfully overcome cancer, using either or both traditional and non-traditional means.
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      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
        Originally Posted by TelegramSam View Post

        Thousands of people have successfully overcome cancer, using either or both traditional and non-traditional means.
        I'm thinking I should of used different examples now.
        My post was not about dying of cancer it was about dieing, period.
        Something we all will do when it is our time.

        It doesn't matter how old you are or if you have a disease.
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      However, the above sentence is a highly generalised and irresponsible thing to say.
      It's a bit like saying, "well if i end up a millionaire, i end up a millionaire".
      It's nothing like that at all.
      What I ment and gave examples of is the simple fact of life and death.
      You can live any type of life style you want, but when your time is up that's it.
      I didn't say that both people in my examples physically or mentally felt the same while they where alive. I didn't say you shouldn't eat what you think are the right foods or have a life style you are comfortable or happy with.
      There are only two things we all have in common.
      We all where born, and we all will die. What ever we do after we are born will do nothing to change the fact that we will die when it is our time.

      So yes that sentence was general, it was ment to be.
      But to say it's irresponsible is pretty ridiculous, we all will die when it is our time. Knowing and excepting that one fact of life frees you from the fear of death and allows you to appreciate every moment you have before it happens.
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      • Profile picture of the author TelegramSam
        Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

        It's nothing like that at all.
        What I ment and gave examples of is the simple fact of life and death.
        You can live any type of life style you want, but when your time is up that's it.
        I didn't say that both people in my examples physically or mentally felt the same while they where alive. I didn't say you shouldn't eat what you think are the right foods or have a life style you are comfortable or happy with.
        There are only two things we all have in common.
        We all where born, and we all will die. What ever we do after we are born will do nothing to change the fact that we will die when it is our time.

        So yes that sentence was general, it was ment to be.
        But to say it's irresponsible is pretty ridiculous, we all will die when it is our time. Knowing and excepting that one fact of life frees you from the fear of death and allows you to appreciate every moment you have before it happens.

        I'm sorry, but if you are saying that we can't (most likely) live longer healthier lives, by following and adopting a healthier lifestyle, then you are talking absolute nonsense.
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        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
          Originally Posted by TelegramSam View Post

          I'm sorry, but if you are saying that we can't (most likely) live longer healthier lives, by following and adopting a healthier lifestyle, then you are talking absolute nonsense.
          I'm not saying that at all. All I'm saying is when it is your time to die you will.
          This ain't rocket science it's a simple fact.
          Are you saying you won't die?
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        • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
          Originally Posted by TelegramSam View Post

          I'm sorry, but if you are saying that we can't (most likely) live longer healthier lives, by following and adopting a healthier lifestyle, then you are talking absolute nonsense.
          In some cases you can, in some cases you can't. There are plenty of examples of people who live great healthy lives but still die ridiculously young. My grandmother is a perfect example. Never drank, smoked, alwaysa in pretty decent shape, had a great diet, very active, died in her early 50's from colon cancer. Nature isnt a force that is stopped by bran muffins and walking an hour a day.

          And on the other hand, my great grandfather drank heavily, smoked cigars, lived to 85.

          We like to think we know how to manipulate nature with our fad diets and exercise programs. I'm sure that amuses nature to no end.
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          • Profile picture of the author ThomM
            Exactly Mike, I'm glad to see at least one person here understands this stupidly simple fact.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
    Thousands of people have put cancer into remission using traditional and non traditional means. Thats not overcoming cancer, thats just putting off the inevitable.
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  • Profile picture of the author TelegramSam
    You two guys need to team up and call yourself the "Pessmistic Twins".

    For every unusual case who dies early even though they lived healthily, or who lived a long life but drank like a fish etc, there are thousands of others lying in hospital telling you the real facts about how your lifestyle affects your health.

    I suggest you go and have a look together and when you have REALLY seen these facts you may change your minds.

    Maybe you could even end up in a bed, in a ward next to each other. You can then tell each other just how right you were.

    Obviously my words have whistled past your ears like a buzzing mosquito heading for a bright light.
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by TelegramSam View Post

      You two guys need to team up and call yourself the "Pessmistic Twins".

      For every unusual case who dies early even though they lived healthily, or who lived a long life but drank like a fish etc, there are thousands of others lying in hospital telling you the real facts about how your lifestyle affects your health.

      I suggest you go and have a look together and when you have REALLY seen these facts you may change your minds.

      Maybe you could even end up in a bed, in a ward next to each other. You can then tell each other just how right you were.

      Obviously my words have whistled past your ears like a buzzing mosquito heading for a bright light.
      Obviously you don't have a clue as to what my statement means.
      You seem to think I'm saying that you can do whatever you want and it doesn't matter.
      When all I am saying is that we all at some time will die.
      Stop trying to read more into that statement then what is there.
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      • Profile picture of the author TelegramSam
        Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

        Obviously you don't have a clue as to what my statement means.
        You seem to think I'm saying that you can do whatever you want and it doesn't matter.
        When all I am saying is that we all at some time will die.
        Stop trying to read more into that statement then what is there.

        Obviously not then...
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        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
          Originally Posted by TelegramSam View Post

          Obviously not then...
          O.K. I'll try to make this so simple even you can understand it.

          Do you think you will ever die?
          Here's a hint to the answer, say yes.
          That is the only point I was trying to make.
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  • Profile picture of the author TelegramSam
    Ahhhh, now I get it.

    Sheesh. I knew I missed something at nursery school.
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      I think you missed quit a bit.
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      • Profile picture of the author TelegramSam
        Now I know what I don't know, so that is progress :-)
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        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
          Originally Posted by TelegramSam View Post

          Now I know what I don't know, so that is progress :-)
          It's all good Sam.
          Hell if we where having this conversation in person we both would of been laughing at it a long time ago
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    BTW - Thom -- you are absolutely correct. The fluoride that is purposely dumped into our water is extremely poisonous and is industrial waste. There is fluoride that naturally occurs in water, too. You would have to be an idiot to think you could have fluoride in surrounding rocks and they wouldn't leach into the water. One form of fluoride is sodium and the other is something else, I forget, and I can't remember which is the natural form but I think it's the soduim. I am not sure that either is actually good for you, but the natural form is not deadly - the dumped form requires hazmat suits for the people at the water plants working with it.

    You remember that rock with the pretty light green crystals in it that I picked up at that mine in NH? THAT is fluoride in the crystalized state. Anyone drinking water from that area is going to have natural fluoride in their water because it's a natural mineral to that area. I would think that in your area if there is any natural fluoride it's a very minute quantity as the mineral isn't really indigenous where you are.

    HTH.
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      BTW - Thom -- you are absolutely correct. The fluoride that is purposely dumped into our water is extremely poisonous and is industrial waste. There is fluoride that naturally occurs in water, too. You would have to be an idiot to think you could have fluoride in surrounding rocks and they wouldn't leach into the water. One form of fluoride is sodium and the other is something else, I forget, and I can't remember which is the natural form but I think it's the soduim. I am not sure that either is actually good for you, but the natural form is not deadly - the dumped form requires hazmat suits for the people at the water plants working with it.

      You remember that rock with the pretty light green crystals in it that I picked up at that mine in NH? THAT is fluoride in the crystalized state. Anyone drinking water from that area is going to have natural fluoride in their water because it's a natural mineral to that area. I would think that in your area if there is any natural fluoride it's a very minute quantity as the mineral isn't really indigenous where you are.

      HTH.
      And you thought I never listened when you talked here
      Did you leave that rock here?
      I know you left some pretty neat ones, but you also know I don't know rocks.:rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    No one gets agitated if they aren't listening, Thom, :rolleyes:

    Nope - I have it right here in my bookcase. I'm not in the areas with fluoride crystals any too often so I kept that one. I took my best fossils, too but left a few - some quartz crystals that needed cleaning (and I wish I had brought). If you soak those in
    muratic acid it will clean them up - but make sure you know how to do it first. Just
    drop me an email if you want to clean them and I'll tell you how. You got some of those grossulars (garnets), etc. AND - you have my rock that says HI. I can't believe I forgot that one, Hahahahahahahaha - it should be parked appropriately...at your doorstep.

    Sorry...........back to CODEX everyone.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Tim - very low levels are safe - but we're talking levels like .04ppm which is the amount in breast milk. Both industrial waste fluoride (which is the sodium) and natural will mottle teeth - it's call fluorosis, and about 1/3 of the population now shows signs of fluorosis. When you start seeing that you have toxic levels and your teeth are the last thing you need to worry about at that point - you can replace a tooth with a fake - but there's a lot of things that fluoride will do to you that you will never be able to fix -if you live long enough to fix it.
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      So one third of the population has brown teeth? I guess I live in a different area. Where are these people?

      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Both industrial waste fluoride (which is the sodium) and natural will mottle teeth - it's call fluorosis, and about 1/3 of the population now shows signs of fluorosis.
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        So one third of the population has brown teeth? I guess I live in a different area. Where are these people?
        Mottled isn't always brown - it's patchy but sometimes white - caused because too much fluoride (fluorisis) makes teeth Porous. Google pictures of fluorosis and you will see the different looks of the condition.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
    Then you are cooking your foods to much or not eating the right foods. If you are eating the right foods and preparing them correctly, unless you have some specific issue that is making you extraordinarily vitamin deficient, you dont need vitamins.
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    • Profile picture of the author Vikuna2009+
      Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

      if you 'depend' on vitamins then you need to stop eating your food from a styrofoam box. Plus the supplement market has absolutely no regulation. You dont know if you're getting the right doseage or even the advertised dosage.
      Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

      Then you are cooking your foods to much or not eating the right foods. If you are eating the right foods and preparing them correctly, unless you have some specific issue that is making you extraordinarily vitamin deficient, you dont need vitamins.

      I don't get it, just because of the fact that I am alerting you about Codex, you think there is something WRONG with my cooking or that I am eating the WRONG food or that I have some SPECIFIC ISSUE? Quite hilarious, to say the least !

      Quote: " You don't need vitamins. [quote]. I guess each of us has the right to our opinion, enough said.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
    No, i think because you are worried about vitamins, that there is probably something wrong with your cooking or you're eating the wrong foods, or you have a specific issue that requires vitamins

    Thats not my opinion, thats the opinion of medical professionals
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

      Thats not my opinion, thats the opinion of medical professionals
      Ah yes - medical professionals. You mean the guys that take the classes written by pharmaceutical companies - the ones who usually have less background in nutrition than nurses receive. The guys that want us to believe that cholesterol is bad for your heart and can cause heart attacks (and yes I do know that there are two types). The guys that tell us low fat diets are good for us instead of certain kinds of fats are dangerous. The guys that make us ask for ascorbic acid infusions before they give them to us if we are in the hospital dying of flu.

      CODEX will make it almost impossible to get concentrations of ascorbic acid in a form in which you can get fast doses high enough to kill flu viruses.

      It also labels garlic and B6 and other nutrients as toxins. Toxins? Okay.

      Yet it does not stop the addition of MSG or trans-fatty acids to our foods. It doesn't take aspertime out of our food.

      It is pretty likely to bring the population down to carrying capacity level, though.


      Paul - yes - you Californians have some pretty white teeth - those tooth whiteners aren't all that safe either though. LOL.
      Of course - you might live in one of the areas that has successfully gotten fluoridation taken out of their water. Last time I looked there were now 1.700 Dentists and dental associations fighting fluoride. A lot of areas are successfully taken out of their water. Many areas here in WA are now fluoride additive free, there are a few areas in which it occurs in natural form, though. Most, if not all, of Europe is now fluoride free, too. I think many areas in Canada have successfully banned it as well. They had the World Fluoride Convention up there last fall and it was looking good for bans.

      If anyone wants to see the professional's opinions - dentists, doctors, medical associations, and environmental agencies research and action on the subject of fluoride instead of just hearing what I have to say about it, it's right here - and you can find here if your area fluoridates or not, too:
      Fluoride Action Network

      And no remarks about tinfoil.....tinfoil is very passee - the latest craze is electrostatic bags.
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        Ah yes - medical professionals. You mean the guys that take the classes written by pharmaceutical companies - the ones who usually have less background in nutrition than nurses receive.
        This is the one thing I have always wanted to know...

        You guys are quick to beat down ANYthing put out by the government or scientists for the government as some sort of self-serving bunk, while at the same time, espousing all of your sources as 100% truth.

        So, answer me this...why is the "proof" from your side irrefutable? Why should people who don't really know what to believe, believe those sources?

        Do you REALLY believe that there is nothing "self-serving" about those people? And do you REALLY believe that ALL research coming from the other side is B.S.?

        I am genuinely curious...

        I ask because people point out certain things from the codex, but your response has always been the same: It's BS designed to mislead the public - do more research", yet I have yet to see you point to anything specific in the codex that supports what you are saying.

        For the record, I don't know WHERE I stand or WHAT I believe. I only know this... I DO NOT swallow everything from EITHER side simply because I am told. Because whether people want to hear this or not, BOTH sides are self serving in some way.

        Don't keep TELLING me what laws have been enacted - show me where and tell my why the law makes these things being mentioned are illegal. You want to convince people - dig up the proof and link to it - highlight the parts that support your argument. THEN you will get people listening.

        To say things like "I have spent bah blah time on this and don't want to go dig it all up again..." merely suggests to those "late to the argument" that maybe you don't really HAVE any "proof".

        Not being critical - just seems to me there is an awful lot of "truth-slinging" without any real verifiable truth being pointed to, except to say "Dr. So and So says..."

        Yeah, well who is Dr. So and So and WHY should we believe him?

        Quite frankly, I don't typically swallow ANY type of research as gospel considering for every "study" proving ONE thing there is one to "prove" the opposite. It comes down more to who you CHOOSE to believe. And not surprisingly, the people who are most likely to disbelieve government studies, if you dig deep enough, you will find they are to a large degree ANTI government. At least in the cases of the people I have spoken to.

        I have stated before - I don't swallow what either side tells me "just because". I take in arguments from both sides and make my decisions after.

        Mike
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        • Profile picture of the author nightwriter46
          I think everyone is missing the main point on this issue.

          Whether or not you believe vitamins and natural supplements are necessary or not, you cannot deny people's right to choose to take them or not.

          Or force them into buying versions that are controlled by the pharmaceutical companies. Which is what the Codex Alimentarius will do if its wording is not altered to allow people the freedom of choice.

          Each country, in their specific Charter of Rights, gives their citizens the Freedom of Choice in most areas of their lives...why should a law passed by a foreign body, whether public or private, be allowed to curtail your right to choose?

          Read what the CA is really saying and you will realize that it is a very dangerous step against our freedoms.

          Cheers
          Diana
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          • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
            Originally Posted by nightwriter46 View Post

            I think everyone is missing the main point on this issue.

            Whether or not you believe vitamins and natural supplements are necessary or not, you cannot deny people's right to choose to take them or not.

            Or force them into buying versions that are controlled by the pharmaceutical companies. Which is what the Codex Alimentarius will do if its wording is not altered to allow people the freedom of choice.

            Each country, in their specific Charter of Rights, gives their citizens the Freedom of Choice in most areas of their lives...why should a law passed by a foreign body, whether public or private, be allowed to curtail your right to choose?

            Read what the CA is really saying and you will realize that it is a very dangerous step against our freedoms.

            Cheers
            Diana
            I actually agree with this 100%. Every day we lose more freedom and civil liberties.

            And I DO realize that much legislation passes under the guise of protecting the public when really all it's for is to either:

            - get a politician re-elected
            - line more pockets

            But that's not where my questions were coming from

            Nice post.

            Mike
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        Ah yes - medical professionals. You mean the guys that take the classes written by pharmaceutical companies - the ones who usually have less background in nutrition than nurses receive. The guys that want us to believe that cholesterol is bad for your heart and can cause heart attacks (and yes I do know that there are two types). The guys that tell us low fat diets are good for us instead of certain kinds of fats are dangerous. The guys that make us ask for ascorbic acid infusions before they give them to us if we are in the hospital dying of flu.

        .
        Yeah, but doctors aren't specific on things like cholestorol or fats because of one reason. People are stupid. The average person wont differentiate anyway, so tell them its all bad and cover your bases. The average person in this country knows nothing of nutrtion anyway, if they did, 1 in 4 wouldnt be morbidly obese. Hell we can't even figure out how to feed our children or 1 in 3 of them wouldnt be morbidly obese as well.

        Its not the doctors that are dumb and trying to pull a trick on you, its thet population they have to provide the information to. The idiots that still think a steak a day with breakfast is a good diet. Its the fault of the college(and beyond) educated individuals that the rest of the mouth breathing knuckledraggers cant understand what is being told to them.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
    Also, from what i see, this is something that is suppsed to affect the EU, not the US. I doubt that you could just stop the multi-billion dollar supplement industry in this country without major upheavel. There are too many people like some in this thread that believe they NEED vitamins every single day or actually do need vitamins because for some reason their diet of cheezy puffs and gatorade just doesnt seem to fill their vitamin needs
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      Everyone I know is showing signs of severe flouride deficiency - their teeth are white. Is there a supplement we should be taking to correct this?
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    • Profile picture of the author Vikuna2009+
      Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

      Also, from what i see, this is something that is suppsed to affect the EU, not the US. I doubt that you could just stop the multi-billion dollar supplement industry in this country without major upheavel. There are too many people like some in this thread that believe they NEED vitamins every single day or actually do need vitamins because for some reason their diet of cheezy puffs and gatorade just doesnt seem to fill their vitamin needs


      Seriously, you need to do some heavy research because it is actually set to take effect January 1, 2010. (in the U.S.).

      Its not about the need, its about being able to have the opportunity to supplement if you so choose.

      As far as myself, do not do c heezy puffs or gatorade, do not even drink any kind of soda, bc its BAD for you .

      BTW, peaches are the MOST TOXIC of all fruit, DO NOT EAT THEM if they are not ORGANIC !

      Have a great day!
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
    Ok, and here's what i found
    What most folks don't understand is that 99 percent of the vitamins and supplements you see on store shelves contain ingredients that were made by chemical manufacturers and pharmaceutical companies. Most of these ingredients have little to no government oversight for safety. The version of Codex that we endorse includes wording that would provide government regulation of synthetic vitamins and supplements, while leaving 100 percent organic, naturally occurring herbs, vitamins and supplements outside of its scope. We are fighting to make sure the final version of Codex provides much needed enforcement of synthetic vitamins and supplements, while leaving 100 percent organic and naturally occurring herbs, vitamins and supplements outside of its scope."
    http://www.organicconsumers.org/arti...ticle_4062.cfm

    So the sky isnt falling on organics, just on crap that people think they need.
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    • Profile picture of the author Vikuna2009+
      Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

      Ok, and here's what i found

      Will the WTO's Codex Alimentarius Take Away Your Right to Purchase Synthetic Vitamins & Supplements?

      So the sky isnt falling on organics, just on crap that people think they need.

      Quote: "we should ask who stands to profit the most from the implementation of CA before readily accepting it into our lives.

      The version of Codex that we endorse includes wording that would provide government regulation of synthetic vitamins and supplements, while leaving 100 percent organic, naturally occurring herbs, vitamins and supplements outside of its scope.

      We are FIGHTING to make sure the final version of Codex provides much needed enforcement of synthetic vitamins and supplements, while leaving 100 percent organic and naturally occurring herbs, vitamins and supplements outside of its scope."


      Yes, they are FIGHTING!

      Simple question: Why should they have to FIGHT?
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
    Seriously, get out of the bunker, take off the tinfoil hat. The government doesnt want to control your plants and herbs, but they are cracking down on the supplement sector because its pretty much unregulated.

    I saw just last week that the obama admin. were coming down on Cheerios because of cheerios saying that if you eat their cereal for so many weeks, it will lower your cholesterol by so many points. Its not proven that cheerios does that, but whole grain oats, which is an ingredient of cheerios does and has been shown through actual testing to do so. Cheerios just sort of fudged the logic of the testing and the average consumer that doesnt know any better is thinking they can replace getting their cholesterol tested by eating cheerios. THATS what the entire vitamin industry is like, there's nobody checking to see if their claims are legit or not.

    Should we sound the emergency claxon because the government is coming after our cheerios too?

    A few years ago, there used to be a 'fitness program' called 'cybergenex' that was the greatest thing to get rid of a fat a$$ ever created. People spent millions on this program, and do you know what it was? Crap 'vitamins' that were never tested for accuracy and an exercise program that had you working out 8 hours a day. I could eat peanut butter and jelly sandwiches with marshmallow toppings and wash it down with chocolate syrup and get in shape if i'm working out 8 hours a day, but the people who are trying to lose weight or get in shape dont see any farther than what the box tells them. Weight loss is like IM. A good story about 'the good life' will make you a millionaire

    To me, this sounds like its what is needed for that industry that is full of liars and thieves. At this point they are saying they aren't coming after organics, and why would they, but they are going after the 'vitamins' created from nothing but chemicals and binders. If people can't see why eating chemicals and binders and expecting a rise in personal health is a bad thing, then that right there explains to you why they are people who stuff vitamins in their face instead of just changing their diet and why they need to have choices made for them.
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    • Profile picture of the author TelegramSam
      Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

      Seriously, get out of the bunker, take off the tinfoil hat. The government doesnt want to control your plants and herbs, but they are cracking down on the supplement sector because its pretty much unregulated.

      I have to jump in again on this thread as this guy is living in cloud cuckoo land.

      I thought I had stamped his fire out but it looks like he has had a new spark catch again.

      If you did your proper research before spewing garbage out of your ignorant mind, you would see that the government is trying to ban a number of herbs right now, has already done so many times in the past and is trying desperately to dumb down what can be classed as organic.

      All to the benefit of large pharma, genetically modified food growers and seed suppliers and for all the other big money companies who finance/lobby the stooges.

      Oh and by the way, as an example, it only needs a tiny bit of vitamin C to avoid scurvy, but if you want optimum health your body benefits from higher levels than the minimum recommended dosages. These were set up to act as a guideline for the various vitamin related diseases earlier last century.

      There is a big difference between being fat and unhealthy at one end of the spectrum, being apparently "normal" in the middle and being super-healthy at the far end of the spectrum.

      A big mac and fries has quite a lot of vitamins in it. But does that make it healthy if you eat it everyday washed down with a couple of litres of coke?

      I hereby, request you eat the big mac now and pour the coke over what is left of your little flame.

      I'm off to peel a banana, drink my juice and go for a little bicycle ride in the fresh air.

      Bye.
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Totally agree with you Michael. The supplements are unregulated and they should be regulated. Orrin Hatch was the main guy behind the 1994 bill which deregulated the supplement industry. I was made aware of this by listening to Dr. Dean Adell for many years. One of his pet peeves was the DSHEA act of 1994. It basically deregulated the supplement industry just as Michael is describing.

      Here's an article which describes this bill as being responsible for the "golden age of quackery":

      Utah, a supplement abuse hatchery. (01-NOV-01) NCAHF Newsletter



      Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

      Seriously, get out of the bunker, take off the tinfoil hat. The government doesnt want to control your plants and herbs, but they are cracking down on the supplement sector because its pretty much unregulated.

      I saw just last week that the obama admin. were coming down on Cheerios because of cheerios saying that if you eat their cereal for so many weeks, it will lower your cholesterol by so many points. Its not proven that cheerios does that, but whole grain oats, which is an ingredient of cheerios does and has been shown through actual testing to do so. Cheerios just sort of fudged the logic of the testing and the average consumer that doesnt know any better is thinking they can replace getting their cholesterol tested by eating cheerios. THATS what the entire vitamin industry is like, there's nobody checking to see if their claims are legit or not.

      Should we sound the emergency claxon because the government is coming after our cheerios too?

      A few years ago, there used to be a 'fitness program' called 'cybergenex' that was the greatest thing to get rid of a fat a$$ ever created. People spent millions on this program, and do you know what it was? Crap 'vitamins' that were never tested for accuracy and an exercise program that had you working out 8 hours a day. I could eat peanut butter and jelly sandwiches with marshmallow toppings and wash it down with chocolate syrup and get in shape if i'm working out 8 hours a day, but the people who are trying to lose weight or get in shape dont see any farther than what the box tells them. Weight loss is like IM. A good story about 'the good life' will make you a millionaire

      To me, this sounds like its what is needed for that industry that is full of liars and thieves. At this point they are saying they aren't coming after organics, and why would they, but they are going after the 'vitamins' created from nothing but chemicals and binders. If people can't see why eating chemicals and binders and expecting a rise in personal health is a bad thing, then that right there explains to you why they are people who stuff vitamins in their face instead of just changing their diet and why they need to have choices made for them.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
    Tell the guys in the bunker I said hi and to keep an eye out for the black helicopters!
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    • Profile picture of the author TelegramSam
      Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

      Tell the guys in the bunker I said hi and to keep an eye out for the black helicopters!

      Well you won't see any helicopters so long as you keep wearing those blinders on your head.
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      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
        you would see that the government is trying to ban a number of herbs right now, has already done so many times in the past and is trying desperately to dumb down what can be classed as organic.
        This line reminded me of the prohibition we had in the 20's and the one we have now. You think they would learn, you can't prohibit something the people want and can easily make or grow themselves.
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
        Originally Posted by TelegramSam View Post

        Well you won't see any helicopters so long as you keep wearing those blinders on your head.
        So you and the boys in the bunker are the only ones that know the truth about VeggieGate?
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        • Profile picture of the author Vikuna2009+
          Quote: "
          "If Codex Alimentarius has its way, then herbs, vitamins, minerals, homeopathic remedies, amino acids and other natural remedies you have taken for granted most of your life will be gone.



          The name of the game for Codex Alimentarius is to shift all remedies into the prescription category so they can be controlled exclusively by the medical monopoly and its bosses, the major pharmaceutical firms.



          Predictably, this scenario has been denied by both the Canadian Health Food Association and the Health Protection Branch of Canada (HPB).
          The Codex Alimentarius proposals already exist as law in Norway and Germany where the entire health food industry has literally been taken over by the drug companies. In these countries, vitamin C above 200 mg is illegal as is vitamin E above 45 IU, vitamin B1 over 2.4 mg and so on.



          Shering-Plough, the Norway pharmaceutical giant, now controls an Echinacea tincture, which is being sold there as an over the counter drug at grossly inflated prices. The same is true of ginkgo and many other herbs, and only one government controlled pharmacy has the right to import supplements as medicines which they can sell to health food stores, convenience stores or pharmacies."


          It is now a criminal offence in parts of Europe to sell herbs as foods. An agreement called EEC6565 equates selling herbs as foods to selling other illegal drugs. Action is being taken to accelerate other European countries into 'harmonization' as well.


          Paul Hellyer in his book, "The Evil Empire," states: "Codex Alimentarius is supported by international banks and multinational corporations including some in Canada, and is in reality a bill of rights for these banks and the corporations they control.


          It will hand over our sovereign rights concerning who may or may not invest in our countries to an unelected world organization run by big business. The treaty would make it impossible for Canadian legislators either federal or provincial to alter or improve environmental standards for fear of being sued by multinational corporations whether operating in Canada or not.


          This will create a world without borders ruled by a virtual dictatorship of the world's most powerful central banks and multinational companies. This world is an absolute certainty if we all sit on our hands and do nothing."


          This is the future the FDA and FTC are striving to bring us via Codex harmonization. Is this a future we are going to willingly accept or prevent? end Quote"


          Yep, its coming...
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  • Profile picture of the author TelegramSam
    Hey Tim,

    You are an idiot.

    What is your vested interest?

    Sam
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Hey Sam.

      My vested interest is the truth. Not BS.



      Originally Posted by TelegramSam View Post

      Hey Tim,

      You are an idiot.

      What is you vested interest?

      Sam
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      • Profile picture of the author TelegramSam
        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        Hey Sam.

        My vested interest is the truth. Not BS.

        Well the truth is, you are an idiot.


        Edit - Fair comment Mike (below). I retract the statement, but I do not apologise for my passionate stance on this subject. His apparent lack of appreciation for the seriousness of this issue and his blinkered thinking which does not benefit anyone except big pharma, government, etc. has really pissed me off.

        When the good people stand by and do nothing, or believe nothing bad will happen: "it can't possibly be true" or "they wouldn't do that" etc., then that is the end as far as I am concerned.

        In the old days if you didn't like the crap that was being shovelled in your face, you hitched up the wagon and moved on. These days you can't do that.

        So when crap gets shovelled in your face constantly, you have to stand up for your rights, otherwise they simply get erroded one by one.

        Sam
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
          Originally Posted by TelegramSam View Post

          Well the truth is, you are an idiot.
          Now, Sam, you see - this is exactly where you lose people who may be "on the fence" on this issue. This is where you make people think that maybe "tin foil hat" is appropriate for you.

          You are getting pissy and name-calling because Tim doesn't agree with your viewpoint - nothing more. And I wouldn't be surprised to come back here later and find you calling me one.

          I have known Tim on this board for several years. He believes what he believes based on the research he does. If you don't agree with him, then make your case. PROVE your case and he WILL listen (as will others).

          But frankly, in your case, you lost me. Now I DO put you in the "tin foil hat" category. Not because I don't believe what people are saying about this CODEX thing - but because you name call when people don't believe.

          Mike
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        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
          All I said was the supplement industry should be regulated and pointed to the bill authored by Orrin Hatch as the reason it isn't now. So, because I agree that supplements should be regulated I am an idiot? That doesn't make sense really. Why do you think products that people put into their bodies and can be harmful shouldn't be regulated? That's the real question IMO.

          Originally Posted by TelegramSam View Post

          Well the truth is, you are an idiot.


          Edit - Fair comment Mike (below). I retract the statement, but I do not apologise for my passionate stance on this subject. His apparent lack of appreciation for the seriousness of this issue and his blinkered thinking which does not benefit anyone except big pharma, government, etc. has really pissed me off.

          When the good people stand by and do nothing, or believe nothing bad will happen: "it can't possibly be true" or "they wouldn't do that" etc., then that is the end as far as I am concerned.

          In the old days if you didn't like the crap that was being shovelled in your face, you hitched up the wagon and moved on. These days you can't do that.

          So when crap gets shovelled in your face constantly, you have to stand up for your rights, otherwise they simply get erroded one by one.

          Sam
          Signature
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        • Profile picture of the author TelegramSam
          Originally Posted by TelegramSam View Post

          Well the truth is, you are an idiot.


          Edit - Fair comment Mike (below). I retract the statement, but I do not apologise for my passionate stance on this subject. His apparent lack of appreciation for the seriousness of this issue and his blinkered thinking which does not benefit anyone except big pharma, government, etc. has really pissed me off.

          When the good people stand by and do nothing, or believe nothing bad will happen: "it can't possibly be true" or "they wouldn't do that" etc., then that is the end as far as I am concerned.

          In the old days if you didn't like the crap that was being shovelled in your face, you hitched up the wagon and moved on. These days you can't do that.

          So when crap gets shovelled in your face constantly, you have to stand up for your rights, otherwise they simply get erroded one by one.

          Sam

          Edit - I retract my retraction!
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          • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
            Who cares?
            Originally Posted by TelegramSam View Post

            Edit - I retract my retraction!
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            • Profile picture of the author TelegramSam
              Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

              Who cares?

              Well big boy, your comment justifies my retraction :rolleyes:.

              Bye.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Provided that for you re: fluoride in link in post just above yours, Tim. I think of anyone here, you will get the most from that one. At least you check things out before solidifying your opinions - although we don't always agree on interpretations, I have to respect you for that one.
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    Sal
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Thanks for that Sal. I did check that site out and have seen that one before. I do think it is biased on the side of the anti flouridation people. Here's a site that is biased to the side of the pro flouidation people:

      Vote NO on Measure W

      I think having flouride in the drinking water regulated should be voted on in each local district. It's been done in some areas and it's a good way to get people interested in this debate and knowledgable about what is in their water. It was voted on in Fort Collins and 2/3rds of the people decided to keep flouridation.

      By the way, that site above has a review of the Flouride Deception book and makes some good points:

      Vote NO on W


      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Provided that for you re: fluoride in link in post just above yours, Tim. I think of anyone here, you will get the most from that one. At least you check things out before solidifying your opinions - although we don't always agree on interpretations, I have to respect you for that one.
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        Thanks for that Sal. I did check that site out and have seen that one before. I do think it is biased on the side of the anti flouridation people. Here's a site that is biased to the side of the pro flouidation people:

        Vote NO on Measure W

        I think having flouride in the drinking water regulated should be voted on in each local district. It's been done in some areas and it's a good way to get people interested in this debate and knowledgable about what is in their water. It was voted on in Fort Collins and 2/3rds of the people decided to keep flouridation.

        By the way, that site above has a review of the Flouride Deception book and makes some good points:

        Vote NO on W
        Tim - I have two comments for you here that you might see some reason residing in.

        1. Many professionals are saying no to fluoride in reaction to previously suppressed and recent research - also it's been around now long enough that the effects are easier for them to evaluate. If there are still those who hang on to the idea that there are benefits, what is wrong with stopping fluoridation so those that don't want to be thusly drugged don't need to be - then providing fluoridation "kits" to those that are convinced that fluoride is beneficial? That way only those that want the drug are paying for it and being exposed to it. Doesn't that sound pretty fair to you?

        2. CODEX - I will agree that some people have no clue about herbs and their reactions. A lot of people think if it's an herb it is inheritantly harmless and this is just not the truth. But I also think that if the pharmacuetical/medical/industrial complex wasn't allowed the control it has been allowed, the truth about alternative medicines would be much more easily accessible and people would be much more likely to learn to use them correctly. As long as herbs are allowed to be treated as suppressed information, reliable information about them will be hard to find. Much like the illegalization of pot - look what "education" about the plant has resulted from that one. The answer is not tyrannical control, but freedom of choice.

        Somewhere in this society we have to make room for truthful research rather than research being accepted only from the very corporations that sell the products in question in the first place and happen to pay grants, FDA events, etc. - Don't bite the hand that feeds attitudes have caused many a death in the past and isn't likely to let up under the current structure of the company. They can start by restructuring the FDA so it's not funded by corporations with interests in products that are/or could be harmful. Research should never be allowed from the same company that has monetary gains at stake. I think we are all aware at this stage of the game what the nature of a corporation is. Money - top line, bottom line.
        UNfortunately the FDA is much like the FED. Until a few years ago people thought the fed was a branch of gov rather than Central bank. I was called a flipping kook for years when I told people it wasnt' part of the government. FDA - most people don't realize that it's funded by the corporations which it is meant to defend us from. uh...yeah, that works. Okay.
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        Sal
        When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
        Beyond the Path

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        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
          Sounds reasonable to me Sal. That could be part of the vote in the local water districts I mentioned. If you can make both sides happy, great. Another option would be to do just the opposite: offer flouridation water filters to those who don't want it in their water. Not sure which would be more feasable economically. Perhaps neither the way things are now.

          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          ...what is wrong with stopping fluoridation so those that don't want to be thusly drugged don't need to be - then providing fluoridation "kits" to those that are convinced that fluoride is beneficial? That way only those that want the drug are paying for it and being exposed to it. Doesn't that sound pretty fair to you?
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
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    • Profile picture of the author Vikuna2009+
      Thank you all for your contributions, I really appreciate it. Yes, discussions can get a little heated sometimes and even to personal, in your face. We all have the right to our opinion/beliefs and it is un-fortunate that we sometimes step over the line.

      To have this wonderful off-topic forum is a gift and we should all try to treat it like that, not easy, I know. Personally, I'd to put a restraining order on myself to stay cool and not say what at first came to mind, lol.

      In the end, its supposed to be all good amongst us warriors, that is my sincere wish. Best of luck to all of us (keep it coming if you feel like it but leave the tinfoil and bunkers out please ) and a Happy 4th of July!

      I'm off to a BBQ !

      (No, its NOT organic but I will force-feed myself :p)!
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  • Profile picture of the author TelegramSam
    Hey Michael,

    It certainly wasn't my intention to upset anyone deliberately.

    This is an important subject, regardless of the opening video etc.

    Everyone has the right to eat what they want, including good stuff and bad.

    But that is the point. What right do the governent have to dictate how people should lead their lives, healthily or not.

    Regulation is one thing, downright squashing of these rights is something else.

    When people feel their rights are being eroded they get damned emotional. And quite right too. Too many people do nothing.

    And when people become argumentative, when they don't even have much interest in taking health supplements and herbs etc., then that is like a red rag to a bull for a number of people in this thread who are interested in such. Me included.

    If I have offended anyone, including you, then I do apologise for that. As I said it wasn't the intention.

    A lot of the public at large don't realise what could happen if people don't look and take some action about this issue and many others.

    If government as a whole was more honest, caring and intelligent and REALLY had the best interests of the masses at heart, and the people trusted it, then people wouldn't be so concerned.

    Yours humbly,
    Sam
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    MIKE --

    Lets get a few things straight because you don't know me like many in the OT already do.
    First off - I am not DOWN on Doctors. I do not believe that doctors want us harmed in any way shape or form (well maybe one or two are more into profits than our health, but there are a few of those in any field). I believe they do their very best - and much of the time, if you talk to some who are enlightened about some practices that are less than kosher, their hands are tied in some issues even if they don't like it.
    Take MSG for example, many doctors and even many FDA employees have just raged against this dangerous additive being allowed for dumping in our food - but corporations pay for the FDA and the research so they have gotten away with dumping that crap in our food. Now that's gov. - Doctors are against it.
    If you start to look at the issues of health you will ALWAYS find corporate interest placed above public health and well being. Just pick an issue and research it if you feel I'm a "nut case".

    Secondly - It is the TRUTH that nurses take more nutrition courses than doctors do. If I want to know how nutrients in certain foods act in the body - I ask a nurse, not a doctor. There are, of course, exceptions to that. If I want to know about drug interactions, I ask a pharmacist, with exceptions. But the truth of educational specialties should not have to be spelled out.
    Doctors learn anatomy and some biological interactions, of course. But their education isn't really about prevention, etc - it is about the control of symptoms using medication and medically approved techniques. That is how the pharms write the courses and a reason that the word "cure" is illegal to be applied to anything other than drugs.

    As far as CODEX - if you read again - I posted a link which breaks many of elements down for people who are concerned enough about what is actually going on in our legislative offices but don't have the time or will to read a 500 page document. As I stated - I read it in 2005 when several of us Warriors went to bat to attempt to stop this crap from being signed. I'm not going to do it again. I would think that Americans would be concerned enough about their own lives to do a bit of investigating on their own, and I will point again to the link I provided to help them do so.

    I also was in Debate with Tim on the issue of fluoride. As you will see, I also provided a link there to the website of an organization I am quite active with. Everything you would desire as proof can be found on that site -from the list of the now over 2,000 medical professionals, scientists, environmental agencies, dental organizations is right there. Any health information you could want concerning water fluoridation is there and in covered in much deeper scientific acuity than I can achieve. Also listed are areas which are now fluoride free so you can check your own area.

    I feel I have offered very just research that covers my stances on issues with these links - If I have to sit here and type it out because people are reluctant to click a damned link, that is just ridiculous.

    Now - back to doctors. You might be surprised, but a lot of my ideas about our medical community come straight FROM the community. Sometimes doctors see things that make them suspicious about whether they have been given the straight facts about a condition or drug, etc. For example, it was a doctor in Australia that was seeing some very strange things about melanomas that just didn't add up to the information we have been fed, so he and some friends started to do their OWN independent research and found that we, even doctors, are being lied to in spades about sunlight causing cancer (outside of people who let themselves burn continually, that'll do some prime damage). Now - if you want links for that statement go to my sig and click whatever I have down about skin care there - then go to the "literature" page and click the page of bibliography. Everything on that page at present is related to sunscreen and sunshine.

    It is my sincerest hope that some day I can come into this forum and discuss the issues of a bill in our legislation with people who are already informed about different parts of the bill instead of those who rant and rail because we aren't spelling everything out for them. ANY American should be interested in what their government is doing and should spend some time at least each week following up on what their reps are doing. Had they been doing this from the get, we would not have as many problems to solve right now as we do. Americans have been negligent to say the least. If someone comes in here and starts ranting about a bill, the first thing I'm going to do is go take a look at it and see if it scares or angers me, too. I was Cheif Justice of my college student government and learned how bills are worded to leave open doors. It was my job to interpret them at U of M.

    Okay - now also, don't forget that the FDA is funded by the very corporations that it is meant to monitor. They rarely do anything but breeze through the results from research handed to them - and most of that research is done by the very companies that are trying to get a substance passed. And even when they decide they need to ban a substance, interest is given to industry over our general health.
    Take the example of Avobenzone which was being dumped into sunscreens. It is so highly carcenogenic that it has been banned already in other parts of the world. The FDA also banned it, but sunscreen manufacturers had about a years supply in stock, so what did the FDA do(better question, what were they reimbursed monitarily to do?), they deferred the ban for one year. Just long enough to let the companies run out of old stock. Forget the fact what that crap is doing to the population in the meantime. That is just one example. Do I believe the FDA acts for our own good? Absolutely not.

    Do I believe gov is interested in the good of the public? LOL. sure they do. Didn't we find that out with the bailout? Where's all your money being spent? On you? And in light of the fact of how many people very loudly said "vote no on the bailout" a turnout larger than about at any time in history and they marched in and signed it anyway - you really think they care about YOU? I had written to my legislator over CODEX. He was also concerned. He said not to worry because of the vast amount of negative reaction to the bill. 50 million letters and faxes saying "vote no" were received, not to mention enough phone calls to swamp the system periodically and emails that did about the same -- yet they quietly marched over to Italy and signed our health rights over to a global organization - repeat that - signed our health rightst to a global organization - DESPITE public outcry. Do you understand the implications of signing rule of AMERICAN rights over to a third party? Take a long look not only at this bill but at the precedent being set here.

    Okay that is all I have to say about it. If you still think I should be wearing tinfoil - let me remind you that tin foil is yesterday's fashion. We "nut cases" are now using electrostatic bags.
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    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
      LOL - Sal, you took my comments to an entirely different level. Let me go through yours a bit. As you might learn, I am not all that far off from your line of thinking. I am simply more skeptical of BOTH sides - not just the government side...

      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      MIKE --

      Lets get a few things straight because you don't know me like many in the OT already do.
      First off - I am not DOWN on Doctors. I do not believe that doctors want us harmed in any way shape or form (well maybe one or two are more into profits than our health, but there are a few of those in any field). I believe they do their very best - and much of the time, if you talk to some who are enlightened about some practices that are less than kosher, their hands are tied in some issues even if they don't like it.
      Take MSG for example, many doctors and even many FDA employees have just raged against this dangerous additive being allowed for dumping in our food - but corporations pay for the FDA and the research so they have gotten away with dumping that crap in our food. Now that's gov. - Doctors are against it.
      If you start to look at the issues of health you will ALWAYS find corporate interest placed above public health and well being. Just pick an issue and research it if you feel I'm a "nut case".
      Sal, don't mistake lack of participation in the OT forum as a sign I don't visit. I have been a member of the forum since 1999 - my post count reflects the level of participation. I would much rather read, learn and study (both subjects AND people) than to simply participate for the sake of participating. I am on the OT forum more than you may think, and it may surprise you to know I probably know more about you than you think...

      Ok, having said that, let me respond to specifics:

      Down on Doctors? I never mentioned doctors. And I never said anyone was down on them. What I observe is that when people point to GOVERNMENT studies, they are typically "pooh-poohed" by those on the other side of the debate as nothing more than stuff to pull the wool over they eyes of the sheep. Go back through this very thread and you will see similar comments.

      FDA - there is NOTHING you can tell me about the FDA that I either don't already know or at the very least, suspect. With 20 years working in the pharmaceutical industry, AND dealing with the FDA personally, I am more than qualified to render opinions here.

      I know full well, what the FDA's STATED mission is, and what their ACTUAL mission is. It's one of the things that you may be surprised that I agree with you on. Big business is the interest, with SAFETY coming in second.

      Yeah, pretty poor way to "protect" the people, but understand also that when you get down to the personnel level of the FDA - as in the actual safety inspectors - the ones not taking bribes ARE actually concerned about the safety of the consumers.

      Like I stated - I don't think ANYTHING is completely one way or the other.


      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Secondly - It is the TRUTH that nurses take more nutrition courses than doctors do. If I want to know how nutrients in certain foods act in the body - I ask a nurse, not a doctor. There are, of course, exceptions to that. If I want to know about drug interactions, I ask a pharmacist, with exceptions. But the truth of educational specialties should not have to be spelled out.
      Doctors learn anatomy and some biological interactions, of course. But their education isn't really about prevention, etc - it is about the control of symptoms using medication and medically approved techniques. That is how the pharms write the courses and a reason that the word "cure" is illegal to be applied to anything other than drugs.
      Well, since I never brought up doctors or nurses, I won't comment here. Quite frankly, after witnessing my niece die a slow and painful death from colon cancer (at the age of 18 no less) I have NOTHING but the utmost respect for doctors and nurses. I don't envy them at all in cases like this.

      Now, in my niece's case, there were things tried on BOTH fronts - all with big promises, studies, etc. but in the end, not one thing we did mattered one iota. Nothing helped. What do you say to my sister who was at her bedside, fighting hard, after all of this?

      Not much, let me tell you...

      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      As far as CODEX - if you read again - I posted a link which breaks many of elements down for people who are concerned enough about what is actually going on in our legislative offices but don't have the time or will to read a 500 page document. As I stated - I read it in 2005 when several of us Warriors went to bat to attempt to stop this crap from being signed. I'm not going to do it again. I would think that Americans would be concerned enough about their own lives to do a bit of investigating on their own, and I will point again to the link I provided to help them do so.
      My comment here was because you had specifically stated that you were in no mood to go searching again. But as I am sure you already know, MOST people will not go through a 4 page thread and read thoroughly all posts. So, when they come in on page 4 asking for some proof, you have a choice - tell them to look it up or point them. I would say though, that if you are trying to get people to hear you, I suggest making it easier for them.

      Personally speaking, I never even HEARD of this CODEX thing until this thread. Does that mean I am a clueless guy? Or simply that there are so MANY things to focus our attention on that we have to pick and choose. I'm sorry, but it's impossible to champion every cause you come across - no matter what the consequences.

      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I also was in Debate with Tim on the issue of fluoride. As you will see, I also provided a link there to the website of an organization I am quite active with. Everything you would desire as proof can be found on that site -from the list of the now over 2,000 medical professionals, scientists, environmental agencies, dental organizations is right there. Any health information you could want concerning water fluoridation is there and in covered in much deeper scientific acuity than I can achieve. Also listed are areas which are now fluoride free so you can check your own area.
      Well, pointing to a site with an agenda (one way or the other) it would stand to reason that it WOULD contain every "proof" that it wants to show you. Just as I am sure others could show you "proof" of a different kind, not in line with those. What does it actually prove when 2000 scientists, etc. do a study and get ONE result, and another 2000 scientists do a study on the same subject and get a different result?

      It proves that there's more than one result - the one they want to see.

      You see why it's hard for people to simply swallow what they're told simply because some website lists a bunch of results from "scientists"they never heard of? I mean, have you verified the qualifications of all these scientists?

      Silly, right? I think so too. That's another reason I NEVER swallow fully what I am told from ANY side of an argument. I am a realists - I believe in the old addage that there is one side, there is the other side, and somewhere in the middle is the truth.

      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I feel I have offered very just research that covers my stances on issues with these links - If I have to sit here and type it out because people are reluctant to click a damned link, that is just ridiculous.
      See my response to this above about people not reading 4 pages of threads fully. Can't change human nature. If it frustrates you, you can always stop participating in the threads...it's a personal choice.

      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Now - back to doctors. You might be surprised, but a lot of my ideas about our medical community come straight FROM the community.
      Actually it does not surprise me. Again - 20 years in the pharmaceutical biz...


      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Sometimes doctors see things that make them suspicious about whether they have been given the straight facts about a condition or drug, etc. For example, it was a doctor in Australia that was seeing some very strange things about melanomas that just didn't add up to the information we have been fed, so he and some friends started to do their OWN independent research and found that we, even doctors, are being lied to in spades about sunlight causing cancer (outside of people who let themselves burn continually, that'll do some prime damage). Now - if you want links for that statement go to my sig and click whatever I have down about skin care there - then go to the "literature" page and click the page of bibliography. Everything on that page at present is related to sunscreen and sunshine.

      Drugs are complicated. Difficult to study, R&D, produce, package and educate people on. If you listen to the commercials for all the bullshit drugs on the market today (I mean, Restless Leg Syndrome? WTF is THAT all about! LOL) listen to the side effects. They're usually worse than the condition it's treating!

      I for one will not take drugs unless absolutely necessary. My 5 year old is smarter than some - he 100% refuses to take ANYthing (thank goodness he's never needed anything urgently!). I had surgery about 7 years ago. The doctor prescribed Percoset for the pain. After one day of that shit, I took myself off and dealt with the pain.

      As I have stated on several occassions in this forum - comeing from the drug manufacturing business, I see first hand what goes in to these drugs people put in to their bodies.

      But I digress - as I stated earlier - I never mentioned doctors.

      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      It is my sincerest hope that some day I can come into this forum and discuss the issues of a bill in our legislation with people who are already informed about different parts of the bill instead of those who rant and rail because we aren't spelling everything out for them.
      Now, Sal, this is where my argument was coming from. You think you're spelling things out to the uneducated. But it comes across typically as "Believe what we say because these experts say so. And by the way, your experts are all full of bunk"

      Now, that was a generalization, and not really meant for you, but as someone who TRIES to see both sides of an issue, the passion from both sides really BLINDS you from even attempting to listen to what the other side has to say. It has on this CODEX issue - both sides.

      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      ANY American should be interested in what their government is doing and should spend some time at least each week following up on what their reps are doing. Had they been doing this from the get, we would not have as many problems to solve right now as we do. Americans have been negligent to say the least. If someone comes in here and starts ranting about a bill, the first thing I'm going to do is go take a look at it and see if it scares or angers me, too. I was Cheif Justice of my college student government and learned how bills are worded to leave open doors. It was my job to interpret them at U of M.
      Sorry Sal, but in this day and age, the only time people tend to get involved is when something directly threatens their way of life. And quite frankly, with all the bullshit that goes on in this country, just TRYING to keep informed is enough to drive a sane person crazy - and back.

      Is that sad? Depends on where you're sitting, but it is what it is. If you're expecting it to change any time soon, then it's time you had a reality check.

      People are lazy and don't care if they're lied to repeatedly. Hell, look in the regular forum and the Reviews forum. All people want is a way to have things with no work on their part. And oh, yeah...for free. They also take their civil liberties for granted. Most people do.

      If you really want to make a change, then run for an office, get out of the forum and on to T.V. or radio - something. The audience is way too limited here.

      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Okay - now also, don't forget that the FDA is funded by the very corporations that it is meant to monitor. They rarely do anything but breeze through the results from research handed to them - and most of that research is done by the very companies that are trying to get a substance passed.
      You're not going to want to hear this, but you are only partially correct here. I have suffered through MANY FDA inspections, and how much is a breeze through depends on why they are there.

      There are general inspections, which are made at random, unannounced, to ensure companies are "doing the right thing" (whatever that means). They are typically breezed through.

      Then there are the inspections where a drug company wants approval on a new drug. In this case, I have not sat through one that was a "breeze through". They took months to get through all of the inspections, reinspections, and all manner of crap. Drugs had to be tested, tested and tested again. Pass within a certain tolerance, and so on. They can drag on for a LONG time.

      But, that doesn't mean the drugs that pass are any safer.

      The there are the inspections where a complaint was made or a very public issue happens. I have witnessed more than one drug company be put out of business from the fines levied upon them. I have participated in the aftermath of inspections, where companies were FINED over a BILLION dollars, then STILL had to make MAJOR renovations in order to stay in business.

      And I know first hand of three men, partners in a drug company, who were decent men, go to jail because of the way OTHER'S in their company were doing things, got caught, FDA stepped in. It goes to the top - the founders are still in prison.

      So, saying ALL FDA activity is ONLY in the best interest of big business is simply wrong - and silly. Sorry, but no manner of websites with "proof" will change the mind of someone who saw first hand what the FDA does to companies who they feel are endangering the public.


      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      And even when they decide they need to ban a substance, interest is given to industry over our general health.
      Take the example of Avobenzone which was being dumped into sunscreens. It is so highly carcenogenic that it has been banned already in other parts of the world. The FDA also banned it, but sunscreen manufacturers had about a years supply in stock, so what did the FDA do(better question, what were they reimbursed monitarily to do?), they deferred the ban for one year. Just long enough to let the companies run out of old stock. Forget the fact what that crap is doing to the population in the meantime. That is just one example. Do I believe the FDA acts for our own good? Absolutely not.
      Again, read above at my thoughts. I do believe that in some ways they ARE acting in our best interest. But of course, in other ways, they are not.

      Frankly though, there are so many things that are bad for us that even if you multiplied the FDA staff by ten times, there would STILL be too much for them to do. They are grossly understaffed for what they are charged with overseeing. This is one reason I don't necessarily believe it's ALL about protecting big business. They just simply can't do more - or, perhaps big business keeps the agency from growing for just that reason... who knows.

      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Do I believe gov is interested in the good of the public? LOL. sure they do. Didn't we find that out with the bailout? Where's all your money being spent? On you? And in light of the fact of how many people very loudly said "vote no on the bailout" a turnout larger than about at any time in history and they marched in and signed it anyway - you really think they care about YOU? I had written to my legislator over CODEX. He was also concerned. He said not to worry because of the vast amount of negative reaction to the bill. 50 million letters and faxes saying "vote no" were received, not to mention enough phone calls to swamp the system periodically and emails that did about the same -- yet they quietly marched over to Italy and signed our health rights over to a global organization - repeat that - signed our health rightst to a global organization - DESPITE public outcry. Do you understand the implications of signing rule of AMERICAN rights over to a third party? Take a long look not only at this bill but at the precedent being set here.
      Again Sal - go back and read what I wrote. I never said I trusted everything the government said.

      This - again - is part of my argument. The fact that you seem to lump ANYTHING positive I said about the government into me saying I swallow everything they say.

      Let me say this one more time...

      I do NOT believe ANYTHING told to me as pure 100% gospel from ANY side of a debate or issue. Hope that was clear.

      And for the record, what does the bailout have to do with this discussion? I never mentioned it, nor do I think it's pertinent to this debate. It seems to me it was simply more fodder thrown in to muddle the issue at hand. Quite possibly? You tell me, since I never brought this bailout thing into the mix...

      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Okay that is all I have to say about it. If you still think I should be wearing tinfoil - let me remind you that tin foil is yesterday's fashion. We "nut cases" are now using electrostatic bags.
      Never called you a nutcase either.

      Funny though - your one complaint is how people are not reading all the info out there, or in your posts, yet you seem to have not read - or understood - mine.

      Pot calling the kettle black, perhaps?

      And, finally, nothing I said was meant to be personal. I do read your posts, quite frequently. I do think you make good arguments at times. I have a great deal of respect for you. So don't make my "disagreement" with your viewpoint into some personal thing.

      Trust me - we don't know each other well enough to be that personal. I simply state my beliefs. You can make what you want out of them, but it's in no way any kind of personal attack on you.

      Thanks for reading.

      Mike
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      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
        (I mean, Restless Leg Syndrome? WTF is THAT all about! LOL)
        It's about not being able to keep your legs still when you lay down or sit down. When you try to keep them still they feel very strange, not painful (at first) but it's a feeling you don't want and you have to move your legs (constantly) to try and make it stop.
        Yep been there and done that on that one
        Never went to the doctors though so I have no idea about the medication or treatment for it.

        Good post by the way Mike.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Crap Thom - that sounds like a side effect of MSG.

    Mike - Sorry, yes I did read your post - just finished an ebook and am a bit tired, but generally if you sense I am getting irritable and even a bit defensive - you are probably right. (got any drugs for that?).

    As I stated, I've been fighting CODEX since 2005 - and if you read my post to Tim, after the one I posted to you, it points out one of the reasons this bill scares me so badly which has nothing to do with nutrition in any way shape or form -- it's in precedents.

    I do get sick of being called "paranoid" "nutcase" "conspiracy nut" by people who never even check into the bills that are discussed here so I do go off pretty easily sometimes. You are right - not all ignorance of any particular bill is stupidity or laziness. There is so much going on that it's impossible for one person to keep up with everything. It's the attitudes of many who just namecall "conspiracy nut" without even taking a look at some of the shit that's coming down that wear me thin.

    That's why I like Tim so much - we are almost always at oppositions in our opinions. Not always but often enough to make enemies of some people -- But I know that he checks stuff out before forming his opinions and he knows I check into things, too. He has called me on a few things here and again and I have to go back and check my own facts sometimes. I cover one hell of a lot of material in one day's time and don't always remember where my sources were, but I do remember the reading I've done to come up to the conclusions I have. WHile I don't always have time to look everything up again when I tell people to do the research themselves it's usually a matter that's real easy to find on google. Some is more obscure and really need citing if people are going to find it.

    Now I know all about the fear of cancer. I was diagnosed with Leukemia in 1987 - I was 85 pounds and they wanted to start me on chemotherapy right away. I ran to the mountains and took care of it on my own. I'm about the healthiest dead person I've ever met. I still to this day think that I was misdiagnosed, but it doesn't matter anymore. I also remember the first time I went to a doctor years later in 1992. I had accidentally poisoned myself on arsenic at a mine site (hell, who knew arsenic was naturally occuring in gold mine gange minerals, LOL) bad enough to make me violently ill. When they told me I had a weak immune system my reaction was to laugh with true hilarity. I knew I'd won. I didn't have any immune system in 1987 when I was diagnosed. Then I bulked at the 5,000 bucks the hospital wanted to treat me and went to a natureopath as soon as offices opened up - 25 bucks for the office visit and about 10 bucks of herbs to leach the metal out of my system.

    SO...when I get overly advocary about alternative medicines, I have good reason to be extreme in pig-headedness over the issues. LOL. I don't actually care if people want to swallow drugs all their lives as long as I am given the choice not to. Right now that right needs protection. I've only been to a doctor twice since my (mis?)diagnosis, and both times were in emergencies when I had no other options (once I was not even lucid so didn't even know where I was being taken nor did I care).

    I am glad to know that you have first hand info on the FDA. I don't fault the workers there - I fault the leaders who have the final say and the corporations who would toss us all in the brink for an extra buck profit. I'll remember you for inside views of issues that come up from now on though. I often depend on people from the inside for info.
    Back just before I got so sick I researched some business cases for US West and had access to an area of info that I needed a few security clearances to get into and what I found out from the inside was one heck of a lot different than anything I would have found out from the outside.......it was about the time I fashioned my first tin foil hat.

    Anyhow - good post. Sorry if I over-reacted, I'll attempt to keep more perspective in the future. If I've eaten sugar recently - don't count on it happening though,
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    • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
      Codex Alimentarius is very real. It is already in force in Germany and I believe in one of the Scandanavian countries. I can't remember which.

      In the video below, the narrator, Ian Crane, has spent over a year researching Codex Alimentarius. The video is 1 1/2 hours long. I'm not trying to force anyone to believe anything. Just be informed and be prepared, is all I would suggest.

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      • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
        Here's an example of how these Codex investigators are up to their heads in conspiracy theory BS. From Ian Crane's site:

        Ian R Crane - Back On-Line (Powered by CubeCart)

        Ian also introduces Project ZION - (2012) and presents his startling prediction of what is being planned to accelerate implementation of the One World Government ... a False Flag fake Alien Invasion to be staged at 2012 London Olympics.
        This guy was also a leader in the UK 9-11 truthers, believes the economic downturn is a conspiracy, believes in the north american union conspiracy and the Amero, is a big believer in the New World Order, and that the human race is a "'slave race' - a race which can do little or nothing to halt the socio-psychopathic agenda of the 'alien force amongst us' ... otherwise known as the 'Ruling Elite'."

        Oh, and by the way, he also seems to think Rima Laibow might be a "controlled opposition". Haha. I mean, is there any conspiracy theory this guy doesn't like? Even among themselves they have their own little conspiracies. Is there any conspiracy this guy doesn't make money from? All you see on his site is DVDs for sale. There's big bucks to be made in this stuff.


        Originally Posted by Karen Blundell View Post

        In the video below, the narrator, Ian Crane, has spent over a year researching Codex Alimentarius. The video is 1 1/2 hours long. I'm not trying to force anyone to believe anything. Just be informed and be prepared, is all I would suggest.

        Codex Alimentarius
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    How's your fight against it going in Canada, Karen?
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    Sal
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    • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      How's your fight against it going in Canada, Karen?
      ha! unfortunately most Canadians don't seem to know about it or seem to care. It seems to me that apathy is rampant here in this country. In my circle of friends, they all think I make this stuff up or that I spend far too much time on the computer. I think it's time for me to get some new friends. As much as I love my friends, they just don't want to know and they don't believe anything that isn't delivered via mainstream media.
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
        Originally Posted by Karen Blundell View Post

        ha! unfortunately most Canadians don't seem to know about it or seem to care. It seems to me that apathy is rampant here in this country. In my circle of friends, they all think I make this stuff up or that I spend far too much time on the computer. I think it's time for me to get some new friends. As much as I love my friends, they just don't want to know and they don't believe anything that isn't delivered via mainstream media.
        This is one of the points I was trying to make above. People don't really WANT to know. They have their own personal things to deal with and would simply rather not hear anything. That includes most of my friends too.

        Mainstream media? What's that? I gave up on that crap years ago. But man, it's SO difficult finding sources of news that are NOT biased one way or the other. Which is why it's so important to get more than one side of an issue or story and then you can ACTUALLY make an informed decision.
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        • Profile picture of the author Vikuna2009+
          Quote: "Personally speaking, I never even HEARD of this CODEX thing until this thread. Does that mean I am a clueless guy? Or simply that there are so MANY things to focus our attention on that we have to pick and choose. I'm sorry, but it's impossible to champion every cause you come across - no matter what the consequences. [end quote/]"

          Hi Mike, thanks for your very detailed post from somebody one the inside. I'm a VERY small fry myself, but I DO know about CA.

          Karen: got some other stuff to do right now but will watch your video first thing tomorrow morning, thanks for you contribution.

          BTW, besides Germany, its Norway that has been severely affected (diluted down to about 10% but still paying full price, want full STRENGTH, pay about 10 times as much plus you need a prescription from a doctor so the VISIT is additional = one big chunk of money).

          I'm thinking that by now, other countries have lost out to Codex as well and as previously mentioned earlier several times, ITS ALL ABOUT POWER AND THE MONEY. BTW, did anyone miss the point somebody mention that WATER is next on Codex agenda?

          Yeah, throw the tinfoil at me but before you do, please look into it!

          Happy 4th!
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          • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
            Originally Posted by Vikuna2009+ View Post

            Karen: got some other stuff to do right now but will watch your video first thing tomorrow morning, thanks for you contribution.

            BTW, besides Germany, its Norway that has been severely affected (diluted down to about 10% but still paying full price, want full STRENGTH, pay about 10 times as much plus you need a prescription from a doctor so the VISIT is additional = one big chunk of money).
            yes! it was Norway...and by now probably other countries...

            Tim,thanks for bringing up Canada's Bill C-51. I just re-read the Q&A and I like this:
            "There is nothing in Bill C-51 that changes the regulatory status of natural health products from over-the-counter, as they are now, to prescription. Under Bill C-51, Canadians will continue to have access to natural health products that are safe, effective and of high quality.
            Natural health products would continue to be classed as therapeutic products because they make health claims, and because the Government does not wish NHPs to become subject to the international Codex Alimentarius."


            Now if Canada sticks to their guns and doesn't bow down to pressure from the advocates of Codex Alimentarius, we will be ok.


            However, if what Ian Crane discusses in the video I posted above about a North American union and it actually comes to pass, then Canadians will be subject to the same rules as the rest of North America
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    It'd be cheaper to leave it out and just give it to those that wanted it, Tim. That one is water under the bridge in a different circle of mine, LOL - we already priced it out. Actually fluoride filters can be outrageously spendy.

    Vikuna2009 (If that is your real name)
    I don't remember water and CODEX being linked - I got pretty blurry on a few pages...half of em probably, LOL.........but there has been a grab in Congress to take rights of all water in the US instead of just the Maritime waterways. They were selling municipal water supplies to foreign concerns awhile back. And they tried to get fluoride put in bottled water - then they tried to stop bottled water. They are all over water, but I don't remember that there is any link between CODEX itself and water. - if you find it in there, let me know.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Tim - Canada and garlic - C-51. The actual document was floating around google awhile back but I can't remember what month or even if it was this year or the end of last year. Yes - garlic is targeted by CODEX. I'm not sure how many countries are involved in CA - Canada, US, and at least a good portion of the EU if not all of it. Not sure if there are others. It is a WHO production, though and even if they are spot on here and there with some of their concerns - others are literally a banishment of very healthy supplements - AND - it is still a matter of passing the rightst of Americans to a third party -- which is the epitomy and definition of TREASON (if they haven't edited that one, too). I'd like to see the legislators that signed it at LEAST jailed for treason. There is a reason we have a constitution and rights and it's not for some jerkwad with an agenda to come along and just pass them over to someone else to dictate - especially considering the fact that they tried to keep it hidden from us and still received "no way" messages from about 17% of the country. How many would have written had it been announced by MSM and generally known about. I can still say CODEX to most people and they have no clue what it is at all. It's a pretty sad state of a nation when they have to try to hide legislation from the public to get it passed or when they just ignore what we tell them to do. Completely rogue. At least since the bailout people are becoming aware - and there are a lot fewer tin-foil comments thrown in earnest these days.
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    • Profile picture of the author Vikuna2009+
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Tim - Canada and garlic - C-51. The actual document was floating around google awhile back but I can't remember what month or even if it was this year or the end of last year. Yes - garlic is targeted by CODEX. I'm not sure how many countries are involved in CA - Canada, US, and at least a good portion of the EU if not all of it. Not sure if there are others. It is a WHO production, though and even if they are spot on here and there with some of their concerns - others are literally a banishment of very healthy supplements - AND - it is still a matter of passing the rightst of Americans to a third party -- which is the epitomy and definition of TREASON (if they haven't edited that one, too). I'd like to see the legislators that signed it at LEAST jailed for treason. There is a reason we have a constitution and rights and it's not for some jerkwad with an agenda to come along and just pass them over to someone else to dictate - especially considering the fact that they tried to keep it hidden from us and still received "no way" messages from about 17% of the country. How many would have written had it been announced by MSM and generally known about. I can still say CODEX to most people and they have no clue what it is at all. It's a pretty sad state of a nation when they have to try to hide legislation from the public to get it passed or when they just ignore what we tell them to do. Completely rogue. At least since the bailout people are becoming aware - and there are a lot fewer tin-foil comments thrown in earnest these days.

      Hi Sal, my "real name" is Eva and when I get the time and find the info about Codex taking over the water as well, I will post it here. As far as CA, it will not only regulate the U.S. and a few other countries, their plans are WORLD-WIDE! No one will get un-touched by them, NO-ONE, period.

      IT IS ALL ABOUT MONEY! So, if you now are spending $300 a year on your nutritional supplements, starting next year it will be $3,000 (give or take a few $ since they do not give you an exact formula but roughly 10 times more).

      Take that times x millions of people and maybe now you will start to understand what is really going on...

      BTW, this is just the beginning.
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      • Profile picture of the author John M Kane
        Originally Posted by Vikuna2009+ View Post

        IT IS ALL ABOUT MONEY! So, if you now are spending $300 a year on your nutritional supplements, starting next year it will be $3,000 (give or take a few $ since they do not give you an exact formula but roughly 10 times more).
        [/B]
        I don't see it as a money thing as the "powers that be" have total control of the economy and can gather up as much $ as they wish with out anyone stopping them.
        They start wars whenever they wish and use whatever methods they wish. Who is strong enought to challenge the "Beast"?!
        It is simply about power,ABSOLUTE power.

        Not looking to start a religious spat here but, the Bible relates what is to come and no, I am not just talking about the Book of Revelation.

        "A woman in travail" means, like child birth the contractions increase and get more severe, until the final act.
        Expect all things to continue to get worse.
        It even has stories that are "Prophetic Parallels" to our own time.
        reading those stories will give you a very good indication of what is in OUR future.

        What is a recurring theme/technique is "2 steps forward then one step back".
        Order out of Chaos is not just something on cash, it is their major method.
        Eventually/slowly they achieve what they wish,with only small amounts of complaints from the sheep.

        Looking at the Hegelian Dialectic you can learn what the Spinmeisters are actually doing.

        They do their dirty deeds out in the open but, like the magician, they distract you with shiney things so, you aren't aware of what they are up to.

        I do feel our water is filled with gunk to make us docile.
        Sure rain down your hate on me, I give 2 sh*ts.

        If anyone truly believes we are as free as our founding fathers started then we have NOTHING in common to talk about.

        You are dead a lot longer than living so, I suggest considering what you intend to do then.

        Peace, wealth and love and get prepared.
        John
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        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
          Free? Oh, you mean for only white males.
          Originally Posted by John M Kane View Post

          If anyone truly believes we are as free as our founding fathers started then we have NOTHING in common to talk about.
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          • Profile picture of the author myob
            Originally Posted by John M Kane
            If anyone truly believes we are as free as our founding fathers started then we have NOTHING in common to talk about.
            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

            Free? Oh, you mean for only white males.
            That was only rich white males. You had to be not only a white male, but also own property to participate in life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. It seems we have MUCH in common to talk about in creating a more perfect union.
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            “If I have seen further than others, it is by standing upon the shoulders of giants.” – Isaac Newton
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            • Profile picture of the author John M Kane
              Originally Posted by myob View Post

              That was only rich white males. You had to be not only a white male, but also own property to participate in life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. It seems we have MUCH in common to talk about in creating a more perfect union.
              touche' and I don't mean "Turtle"

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          • Profile picture of the author John M Kane
            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

            Free? Oh, you mean for only white males.
            You are correct.
            My word choices were flawed.

            FYI I have a bi-racial daughter,nephews and neices so,if you imply I am naive,I am not.

            I just meant in a round about way(which I normally do ) the clowns have too much power over us, when instead they should do our bidding.The checks and balances often fail.

            Danka Schoen
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      • Profile picture of the author myob
        Originally Posted by Vikuna2009+ View Post

        IT IS ALL ABOUT MONEY! So, if you now are spending $300 a year on your nutritional supplements, starting next year it will be $3,000 (give or take a few $ since they do not give you an exact formula but roughly 10 times more).

        Take that times x millions of people and maybe now you will start to understand what is really going on...

        BTW, this is just the beginning.
        Using your figures (which I have no idea how you arrived at) that means the $24 billion annual nutritional supplement market in the US alone should "suddenly" jump to $240 billion next year. I'm beginning to really understand what is going on here. This freshly squeezed all-natural bullcrap smells so familiar ...
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        “If I have seen further than others, it is by standing upon the shoulders of giants.” – Isaac Newton
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        • Profile picture of the author Vikuna2009+
          Originally Posted by myob View Post

          Using your figures (which I have no idea how you arrived at) that means the $24 billion annual nutritional supplement market in the US alone should "suddenly" jump to $240 billion next year. I'm beginning to really understand what is going on here. This freshly squeezed all-natural bullcrap smells so familiar ...


          http://ntcb.org/news/codex/CodexOverview.pdf (no bullcrap here, just bring your wallet). Enjoy....
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          • Profile picture of the author Vikuna2009+
            Another snippet of information for you:



            • Growing and selling common garden herbs will get you arrested as a drug dealer.
            • Massage oils and massagers will be regulated as "medical devices."
            • Vegetable juice will be regulated as a drug.
            • Weight machines will be regulated and require FDA approval before being sold or used.
            • Raw sprouts and other anti-cancer foods will be regulated as drugs.
            • Bottled water that "treats" dehydration will be regulated as a drug.
            • Massage therapists who use hot rocks as part of their therapy will have the ROCKS regulated as medical devices! (It's true. The FDA will actually look at a pile of rocks and declare, "Those are medical devices!")
            • Foods, supplements, vitamins and homeopathic medicine will disappear from store shelves, pending FDA "review."
            • Vitamin store owners will be arrested and prosecuted for "practicing medicine without a license."
            "This could be potentially devastating, not just to my business but to any business relating to supplements," Sophy Winnick, a Felton, Calif., mother of four who has been selling Youngevity products for 10 years, told the Santa Cruz Sentinel. "People better get on the horn about this."
            The FDA's "draft guidance" on the issue first appeared in December, but federal officials said it was printed in the Federal Register on Feb. 27, prompting the growing storm of protest.



            The FDA has reported that approximately one-third of all adult Americans have reported participating in or using some form of "complementary and alternative medicine" and officials estimate nutritional supplement sales total about $5 billion a year in America.



            On the NewsTarget website, self-described "Health Ranger" Mike Adams posted one of the alerts.



            "What this means to consumers, according to the proposal as outlined in FDA Docket number 2006D-0480, is that things like vitamins and herbs would be controlled by the FDA, and could possibly require prescriptions from a naturopath, herbologist or some other physician, all of which would require you to pay a health insurance company and contribute to the already back-breaking cost of healthcare in America," he wrote.



            "There are those who do not trust the U.S. government to act in the interest of its citizens and health insurance providers," he said. "Those people have good reason to feel this way, and the amount of dangerous - DEADLY, even - pharmaceutical drugs that get recalled ... is testament to the fact that human beings can be used as guinea pigs because the FDA allows the pharmaceutical industry to release drugs that haven't been properly tested."



            As WND recently reported, Merck and Co. had been donating to state legislators across the nation who in return were working to require young girls to be given Merck's $400 vaccine that prevents a virus that is spread only through sexual contact.



            WND also has reported on the mandatory anthrax shots for members of the military, even though they had not been fully tested, and the possibility that government officials also could order civilians to be vaccinated.



            "This [new] proposal would allow the FDA to control your access to 'alternatives' to the broken, profit-driven, corrupt pharmaceutical industry here in the U.S.," Adams wrote.


            "When it comes to health freedom, this is the FDA's end game," he said. "They tried to sneak this under the radar, but word got out and now the natural health community is up in arms over this rule.



            "This move by the FDA is designed to once and for all destroy the 1994 DSHEA law that has made supplements 'legal' while eliminating nutritional supplements and natural medicine from the United States, ensuring monopoly profits and control by drug companies and the FDA," he said.



            "Under these proposed guidelines, FDA 'experts' (the same corrupt officials who re-approved Vioxx after it killed over 50,000 Americans) will decide whether herbs, supplements, vitamins or simple devices like massage stones are to be regulated as drugs and medical devices," Adams continued.


            "If the FDA experts, in their infinite wisdom, decide that these things are to be reclassified, they will essentially be outlawed, stripped from the shelves, and regulated out of existence. Anyone who dares to manufacture, promote or sell such products may be branded a criminal and rounded up by armed FDA agents who have a well established history of suppressing natural medicine."



            "This is not a drill. It really is time to be alarmed," he said. "Nothing else I've written about this year is as important as this sinister plot to destroy natural medicine and force the American population to resort to dangerous prescription medications sold at monopoly prices under a system of medical tyranny."



            For example, he cited wording directly from the FDA plans: "...if a person decides to produce and sell raw vegetable juice for use in juice therapy to promote optimal health ... [and] if the juice therapy is intended for use as part of a disease treatment regiment..., the vegetable juice would also be subject to regulation as a drug."



            Keep in mind, he said, the FDA is the agency that "openly allows the mass poisoning of the public with cancer-causing food additives such as sodium nitrite."



            According to his website, Adams suffered from degenerative disease, was nearly obese and diabetic by 30. He became a student of nutrition and natural therapies and gave up all pharmaceuticals, over-the-counter drugs, caffeine and pursued a natural foods diet with exercise.



            He lost 50 pounds, his diabetes vanished and his blood pressured reached 105/60, so he began a writing and teaching career on his own transformation.



            An essay by Roger Wicke at Rocky Mountain Hi Herbal noted, "The unstated purpose of the FDA, and similar organizations in many other countries, is and always has been the protection of major pharmaceutical company profits. Expensive testing protocols act as a way to keep drugs and herbs within the control of the international cartels.



            While such tests may make sense for newly synthesized drugs with no track record in cultural tradition or popular usage, they are inappropriate for herb and food products, especially those with a long history of usage."



            The FDA, in its announcement, said the federal government has been investigating and monitoring "complementary and alternative medicine" since 1992. It also said "depending on the ... therapy or practice, a product used ... may be subject to regulation."



            Secondly, it noted, the law does not exempt alternative medicine products from regulation.



            Alan Stang, writing on etherzone.com, was a little more blunt.
            "Recently we wrote about the 72-year-old Florida grandmother whom the Food and Drug Administration Nazis are charging with a couple of felonies and some misdemeanors for helping cancer victims get the laetrile (Vitamin B-17) they need," he wrote. "Now here come these same offspring of unmarried female canines, with a scheme that may outlaw supplements..."



            He said where such laws already have kicked in, Echinacea, which recharges the immune system, used to cost $14 a bottle, but now is $153. "Because they work, they have now become 'drugs,'" he said.



            "Not content to dominate the drug trade and send your prescription drugs into the $tratosphere, the Food & Drug Administration is now trying (yet again) to take over the entire health food and nutritional supplement industry so they can shut it down forever, leaving expensive FDA-approved drugs - with their myriad as your only option for treating anything from Alzheimer's to zits," wrote Jim Rutz, in a WND column.


            "The FDA hacks are pooh-poohing the significance of the new guidelines as toothless suggestions that merely 'clarify' and 'change nothing.' Yeah, right. In truth, they're following the classic procedure for passing outrageous laws that wouldn't have a chance without an incremental, camel-nose-under-the-tent approach," he said.



            "In reality, 2006D-0480 would eventually change everything. The FDA realizes that alternative medicine has far, far more solutions to chronic diseases than mainline medicine does ... and that panics them..."



            WND also has reported on an agreement by the FDA and the Federal Trade Commission to a Trilateral Cooperation Charter with counterparts in Canada and Mexico under the auspices of NAFTA and the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America that will elevate the crackdown on public access to vitamins.



            "The purpose is to make an end run around any domestic law that interferes with food and drug multi-national corporate profits," John Hammell, a critic of the plan, told WND.



            Hammell is the founder of International Advocates for Health Freedom, an advocacy group created to fight globalists' efforts to regulate alternative health treatments, including herbs, dietary supplements, and vitamins.
            "A key goal of the Trilateral Cooperation Charter is to limit the public's access to food supplements and vitamins that are fundamental to many types of alternative medicine," Hammell said.


            "The Trilateral Cooperation Charter is determined to attack the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994 by moving to merge our food and drug regulations with those of Canada and Mexico, both of whom are far more restrictive on dietary supplements."



            He believes the agenda of the Trilateral Cooperation Charter reflects a globalist desire to advance the interests of the large pharmaceutical companies by reining in the food supplements industry worldwide.



            He points to efforts such as the Codex Alimentarius Commission that was created in 1963 by the Food and Agricultural Organization and the World Health Organization, both official groups within the United Nations.



            "The Codex Alimentarius Commission claims that their main purpose is to protect the health of consumers and ensure fair trade practices in the food trade worldwide," Hammell explained to WND.


            "But the truth is that the Codex Alimentarius Commission is dominated by corporate multi-national interests that do not have as their primary concern the health interests of the people they claim they are in business to protect, not if that health interest is better served by alternative food supplements and alternative medicine.



            They have a business with disease - it's not in their best interests that people be healthy."
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            • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
              Is that you Indy?

              It's weird how most of these sources also have appeared on the Alex Jones show. These people are career conspiracy theorists.

              Originally Posted by Vikuna2009+ View Post

              Another snippet of information for you:



              • Growing and selling common garden herbs will get you arrested as a drug dealer.
              • Massage oils and massagers will be regulated as "medical devices."
              • Vegetable juice will be regulated as a drug.
              • Weight machines will be regulated and require FDA approval before being sold or used.
              • Raw sprouts and other anti-cancer foods will be regulated as drugs.
              • Bottled water that "treats" dehydration will be regulated as a drug.
              • Massage therapists who use hot rocks as part of their therapy will have the ROCKS regulated as medical devices! (It's true. The FDA will actually look at a pile of rocks and declare, "Those are medical devices!")
              • Foods, supplements, vitamins and homeopathic medicine will disappear from store shelves, pending FDA "review."
              • Vitamin store owners will be arrested and prosecuted for "practicing medicine without a license."
              "This could be potentially devastating, not just to my business but to any business relating to supplements," Sophy Winnick, a Felton, Calif., mother of four who has been selling Youngevity products for 10 years, told the Santa Cruz Sentinel. "People better get on the horn about this."
              The FDA's "draft guidance" on the issue first appeared in December, but federal officials said it was printed in the Federal Register on Feb. 27, prompting the growing storm of protest.



              The FDA has reported that approximately one-third of all adult Americans have reported participating in or using some form of "complementary and alternative medicine" and officials estimate nutritional supplement sales total about $5 billion a year in America.



              On the NewsTarget website, self-described "Health Ranger" Mike Adams posted one of the alerts.



              "What this means to consumers, according to the proposal as outlined in FDA Docket number 2006D-0480, is that things like vitamins and herbs would be controlled by the FDA, and could possibly require prescriptions from a naturopath, herbologist or some other physician, all of which would require you to pay a health insurance company and contribute to the already back-breaking cost of healthcare in America," he wrote.



              "There are those who do not trust the U.S. government to act in the interest of its citizens and health insurance providers," he said. "Those people have good reason to feel this way, and the amount of dangerous - DEADLY, even - pharmaceutical drugs that get recalled ... is testament to the fact that human beings can be used as guinea pigs because the FDA allows the pharmaceutical industry to release drugs that haven't been properly tested."



              As WND recently reported, Merck and Co. had been donating to state legislators across the nation who in return were working to require young girls to be given Merck's $400 vaccine that prevents a virus that is spread only through sexual contact.



              WND also has reported on the mandatory anthrax shots for members of the military, even though they had not been fully tested, and the possibility that government officials also could order civilians to be vaccinated.



              "This [new] proposal would allow the FDA to control your access to 'alternatives' to the broken, profit-driven, corrupt pharmaceutical industry here in the U.S.," Adams wrote.


              "When it comes to health freedom, this is the FDA's end game," he said. "They tried to sneak this under the radar, but word got out and now the natural health community is up in arms over this rule.



              "This move by the FDA is designed to once and for all destroy the 1994 DSHEA law that has made supplements 'legal' while eliminating nutritional supplements and natural medicine from the United States, ensuring monopoly profits and control by drug companies and the FDA," he said.



              "Under these proposed guidelines, FDA 'experts' (the same corrupt officials who re-approved Vioxx after it killed over 50,000 Americans) will decide whether herbs, supplements, vitamins or simple devices like massage stones are to be regulated as drugs and medical devices," Adams continued.


              "If the FDA experts, in their infinite wisdom, decide that these things are to be reclassified, they will essentially be outlawed, stripped from the shelves, and regulated out of existence. Anyone who dares to manufacture, promote or sell such products may be branded a criminal and rounded up by armed FDA agents who have a well established history of suppressing natural medicine."



              "This is not a drill. It really is time to be alarmed," he said. "Nothing else I've written about this year is as important as this sinister plot to destroy natural medicine and force the American population to resort to dangerous prescription medications sold at monopoly prices under a system of medical tyranny."



              For example, he cited wording directly from the FDA plans: "...if a person decides to produce and sell raw vegetable juice for use in juice therapy to promote optimal health ... [and] if the juice therapy is intended for use as part of a disease treatment regiment..., the vegetable juice would also be subject to regulation as a drug."



              Keep in mind, he said, the FDA is the agency that "openly allows the mass poisoning of the public with cancer-causing food additives such as sodium nitrite."



              According to his website, Adams suffered from degenerative disease, was nearly obese and diabetic by 30. He became a student of nutrition and natural therapies and gave up all pharmaceuticals, over-the-counter drugs, caffeine and pursued a natural foods diet with exercise.



              He lost 50 pounds, his diabetes vanished and his blood pressured reached 105/60, so he began a writing and teaching career on his own transformation.



              An essay by Roger Wicke at Rocky Mountain Hi Herbal noted, "The unstated purpose of the FDA, and similar organizations in many other countries, is and always has been the protection of major pharmaceutical company profits. Expensive testing protocols act as a way to keep drugs and herbs within the control of the international cartels.



              While such tests may make sense for newly synthesized drugs with no track record in cultural tradition or popular usage, they are inappropriate for herb and food products, especially those with a long history of usage."



              The FDA, in its announcement, said the federal government has been investigating and monitoring "complementary and alternative medicine" since 1992. It also said "depending on the ... therapy or practice, a product used ... may be subject to regulation."



              Secondly, it noted, the law does not exempt alternative medicine products from regulation.



              Alan Stang, writing on etherzone.com, was a little more blunt.
              "Recently we wrote about the 72-year-old Florida grandmother whom the Food and Drug Administration Nazis are charging with a couple of felonies and some misdemeanors for helping cancer victims get the laetrile (Vitamin B-17) they need," he wrote. "Now here come these same offspring of unmarried female canines, with a scheme that may outlaw supplements..."



              He said where such laws already have kicked in, Echinacea, which recharges the immune system, used to cost $14 a bottle, but now is $153. "Because they work, they have now become 'drugs,'" he said.



              "Not content to dominate the drug trade and send your prescription drugs into the , the Food & Drug Administration is now trying (yet again) to take over the entire health food and nutritional supplement industry so they can shut it down forever, leaving expensive FDA-approved drugs - with their myriad as your only option for treating anything from Alzheimer's to zits," wrote Jim Rutz, in a WND column.


              "The FDA hacks are pooh-poohing the significance of the new guidelines as toothless suggestions that merely 'clarify' and 'change nothing.' Yeah, right. In truth, they're following the classic procedure for passing outrageous laws that wouldn't have a chance without an incremental, camel-nose-under-the-tent approach," he said.



              "In reality, 2006D-0480 would eventually change everything. The FDA realizes that alternative medicine has far, far more solutions to chronic diseases than mainline medicine does ... and that panics them..."



              WND also has reported on an agreement by the FDA and the Federal Trade Commission to a Trilateral Cooperation Charter with counterparts in Canada and Mexico under the auspices of NAFTA and the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America that will elevate the crackdown on public access to vitamins.



              "The purpose is to make an end run around any domestic law that interferes with food and drug multi-national corporate profits," John Hammell, a critic of the plan, told WND.



              Hammell is the founder of International Advocates for Health Freedom, an advocacy group created to fight globalists' efforts to regulate alternative health treatments, including herbs, dietary supplements, and vitamins.
              "A key goal of the Trilateral Cooperation Charter is to limit the public's access to food supplements and vitamins that are fundamental to many types of alternative medicine," Hammell said.


              "The Trilateral Cooperation Charter is determined to attack the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994 by moving to merge our food and drug regulations with those of Canada and Mexico, both of whom are far more restrictive on dietary supplements."



              He believes the agenda of the Trilateral Cooperation Charter reflects a globalist desire to advance the interests of the large pharmaceutical companies by reining in the food supplements industry worldwide.



              He points to efforts such as the Codex Alimentarius Commission that was created in 1963 by the Food and Agricultural Organization and the World Health Organization, both official groups within the United Nations.



              "The Codex Alimentarius Commission claims that their main purpose is to protect the health of consumers and ensure fair trade practices in the food trade worldwide," Hammell explained to WND.


              "But the truth is that the Codex Alimentarius Commission is dominated by corporate multi-national interests that do not have as their primary concern the health interests of the people they claim they are in business to protect, not if that health interest is better served by alternative food supplements and alternative medicine.



              They have a business with disease - it's not in their best interests that people be healthy."
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Micheal - there are a LOT of reasons for our surge of obesity that have nothing to do with how much people are eating - fat is a symptom - and the causes are not always
    people's faults. I am just to release an eguide about why people are fat and unable to lose weight and the research absolutely made ME ill. Consider this -- people aren't eating any more than they ever did, but for the last few decades people have absolutely ballooned. Obesity, or at least overweight is now the norm. What's up with that? Anyone who is overweight should start thinking real fast about their health and quit worrying about being "descriminated against". Sorry about the luck but if you are overweight you are FAT, so get your heads out of your ass and start wondering if maybe it isn't normal to be FAT on the amount of food you are eating.

    I'd also do a little research on the cholestreal debate before I jumped on the bandwagon to lower mine. Women can kill themselves if they don't get enough - and I am talking BOTH kinds. Men need less, so aren't being hurt as badly unless they are taking drugs for it.

    Eva - Yes, when the Warriors battled CODEX in 2005 - it wasn't just American Warriors who were sending mass mailings and putting up websites. You might have missed it in an earlier post but that is one of the reasons people should be rising against CODEX in America - it is called TREASON in this country to give our rights to a third party - and that is what happened when they signed the damned thing. America and it's legislators do not have final control of this thing, they can only alter it to extents.

    There are already a billion people starving to death worldwide, although we hear NOTHING of that in our news. You will hear nothing of this either - just as we did not see it in the news when they signed it, yet it can alter our very lives.

    We are also about to get a very dangerous ruling for socialized medicine. If you link together everything they are doing right now and see how they are all intertwined, you will see the extent of the control of our lives that is just about to happen. I expect more than millions to die. No high doses of Vit C, anti-sun propeganda, lowered nutrition, socialized control of a pharmacuetical/medical complex. Just what do you think is going to happen when that virus finally hits? LMAO. Cattle to the slaughter.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
    That's bullcrap. Unless you have an glandular issue its not rocket science. people are fat because they eat crap and dont move, its nothing more indepth than that. Our lives are wrapped around pc's, iphones and 42" lcd tv's. We live in ac controlled environments and work in them too. We eat garbage that comes in a styrofoam box made almost completely from chemicals. Wii's are considered strenuous exercise.

    No wonder every country in the world wants to attack us. If i was broke and saw a huge pile of gold being guarded by a fat guy that cant move more than 5 steps without getting winded, i'd kick his ass for that gold too.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
    our founding fathers would roll over in their graves if they knew what we have become
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
    I knew wnd.com had to be involved in this

    It just floors me that marketers of all people can be sucked into such tripe.
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    • Profile picture of the author Vikuna2009+
      Quote: "These people are career conspiracy theorists."

      THESE PEOPLE???????????????????????? Yeah, there are conspiracy theorists out there, for sure. However, this time you are totally wrong, mark my word and BTW, why do you bring in such crap to the thread? Start your own s***t somewhere else, thank you.
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      • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
        I'm responding to what's in this thread. Oh, you only want people who agree with you and buy everything your sources say?

        Originally Posted by Vikuna2009+ View Post

        Quote: "These people are career conspiracy theorists."

        THESE PEOPLE???????????????????????? Yeah, there are conspiracy theorists out there, for sure. However, this time you are totally wrong, mark my word and BTW, why do you bring in such crap to the thread? Start your own s***t somewhere else, thank you.
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        • Profile picture of the author Vikuna2009+
          Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

          I'm responding to what's in this thread. Oh, you only want people who agree with you and buy everything your sources say?

          I'm not here to sell anything, anything at all, just to inform you of what is coming, simple as that, and yes, I get a little frustrated when people don't listen.

          I'm sure there is a whole bunch of lunatics out there and then some. I'm not one, I have nothing to gain and all I wanted was to share the information.

          Of course you have the right to your opinion, I don't have a problem with that. Carry on...
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          • Profile picture of the author TelegramSam
            Originally Posted by Vikuna2009+ View Post

            I'm not here to sell anything, anything at all, just to inform you of what is coming, simple as that, and yes, I get a little frustrated when people don't listen.

            I'm sure there is a whole bunch of lunatics out there and then some. I'm not one, I have nothing to gain and all I wanted was to share the information.

            Of course you have the right to your opinion, I don't have a problem with that. Carry on...

            Vikuna2009+,

            Don't waste your breathe or rather your finger tips on these kinds of people. Nothing you say or do will enlighten them at all.

            These are the same kind of people who wake up one day and finally look around and say "What the f*** just happened? Last thing I remember I was sitting on the sofa, watching fox, cnn and nibbling on my cookies".

            Or comments such as "Oh this is terrible, someone should do something about it".

            They are just spectators on these kinds of things.

            You know the situation and the dangers of what might happen. Keep on letting people know and eventually some will take a genuine interest and not poke childish fun.

            Sam



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            • Profile picture of the author Vikuna2009+
              Originally Posted by TelegramSam View Post

              Vikuna2009+,

              Don't waste your breathe or rather your finger tips on these kinds of people. Nothing you say or do will enlighten them at all.

              These are the same kind of people who wake up one day and finally look around and say "What the f*** just happened? Last thing I remember I was sitting on the sofa, watching fox, cnn and nibbling on my cookies".

              Or comments such as "Oh this is terrible, someone should do something about it".

              They are just spectators on these kinds of things.

              You know the situation and the dangers of what might happen. Keep on letting people know and eventually some will take a genuine interest and not poke childish fun.

              Sam



              Last


              Thank you, hard to believe though, when you are trying to HELP, what kind of s***it do you get back? Go figure...

              IMHO, spend an hour to research this "stuff" (I'll dare ya, lol). Please do not only read this thread and do nothing else. Your LIFE depends on it...
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              • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
                Originally Posted by Vikuna2009+ View Post

                Thank you, hard to believe though, when you are trying to HELP, what kind of s***it do you get back? Go figure...

                IMHO, spend an hour to research this "stuff" (I'll dare ya, lol). Please do not only read this thread and do nothing else. Your LIFE depends on it...
                Originally Posted by TelegramSam View Post

                Dear Vikuna2009+,

                As I said, don't waste your breathe or rather your finger tips on these kinds of people. Nothing you say or do will enlighten them at all.

                Sam
                What I don't think you guys are really seeing here is that what YOU are calling "Help" and "Enlightenment" are not necessarily going to be swallowed just because you say something is so, or point to sources that claim to have the answers.

                It's no different than perhaps being a Christian and trying to convice a Jewish person that Christ is the Messiah and will rise again...

                Or that perhaps your statistics show that Country Music is WAYYYYY better than Rap.

                Your "proof" is no more proof to those who don't believe then THEIR proof is to you. Think about it - there have been responses trying to "convince" you with "proof" that what you believe just isn't so - yet you don't believe it, do you? In fact, people who have sided with you in this debate have called those who try to convince you of their viewpoint "sheep"...

                You are no different than those you think can't be enlightened. Seriously - you're not. You're just upset that you are not being believed.

                Let it go. At the end of the day we're ALL blinded by our beliefs and ideals. It doesn't make you or I better than ANYONE else.

                I for one think these "arguments" become nothing more than pissing contests to see who can get the last word, or who can win. But there's no winners here.

                Instead of wasting time and energy being pissed off at those who won't believe you or think you're nuts, try taking action, kind of like what HeySal says she did back in 05 - start a petition, write your congressmen, take a stand.

                You won't accomplish anything here...the same 5 people are posting now. The thread has become too long and dull for others to really get anything out of it.

                Again...let it go. You'll feel better, trust me.

                Mike
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                • Profile picture of the author Vikuna2009+
                  Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

                  What I don't think you guys are really seeing here is that what YOU are calling "Help" and "Enlightenment" are not necessarily going to be swallowed just because you say something is so, or point to sources that claim to have the answers.

                  It's no different than perhaps being a Christian and trying to convice a Jewish person that Christ is the Messiah and will rise again...

                  Or that perhaps your statistics show that Country Music is WAYYYYY better than Rap.

                  Your "proof" is no more proof to those who don't believe then THEIR proof is to you. Think about it - there have been responses trying to "convince" you with "proof" that what you believe just isn't so - yet you don't believe it, do you?

                  You are no different than those you think can't be enlightened. You're just upset that you are not being believed.

                  Let it go.

                  I for one think these "arguments" become nothing more than pissing contests to see who can get the last word, or who can win. But there's no winners here.

                  Instead of wasting time and energy being pissed off at those who won't believe you or think you're nuts, try taking action, kind of like what HeySal says she did back in 05 - start a petition, write your congressmen, take a stand.

                  You won't accomplish anything here...the same 5 people are posting now. The thread has become too long and dull for others to really get anything out of it.

                  Again...let it go. You'll feel better, trust me.

                  Mike



                  FEEL BETTER? So what did YOU do?

                  Just curious...
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                  • Profile picture of the author Vikuna2009+
                    Sorry, if you are a non-----beliver, send me a PM come next year, at that point, you WILL be a beliver. (Darn, there goes that non-existent spell-checker again...)
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                  • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
                    Originally Posted by Vikuna2009+ View Post

                    FEEL BETTER? So what did YOU do?

                    Just curious...

                    Ok, then DON'T let it go.

                    Just trying to help. Obviously you don't need it from me.

                    Keep on keeping on
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                    • Profile picture of the author myob
                      LOL! As a niche investor/marketer in the food supplement business myself, I would certainly never seriously listen to anything here at all. As with anything, you should get your facts from reliable trade sources and journals instead of from a bunch of brawling drunks.

                      For the most part, the codex as applied to the health industry, is to provide truth in labeling; snake oil salesman will be more stringently required to label the ingredients in their snake oil formula, with proof of claims.

                      A perfect example for a need for this type of regulation is the irresponsible marketing and sales of fruit-flavored sugar water sold as exotic elixirs from Hawaii, the tropics, the Amazon and other singular sources that have amazing magical powers. These worthless products are expected to magically disappear from the market.

                      There is a health trade show that I will be attending in Las Vegas this November, and there is certainly no sign of such lunacy in this market as displayed here throughout this thread. If you own a vitamin store or sell food supplements online, come and visit us on Nov 12-13 in Las Vegas. The two day educational package is $695 if you register before Sept 10 (hotel, food, transportation, incidentals etc are extra)

                      SupplySide West International Trade Show & Conference. The worlds largest expo of functional, natural, & healthy supplements.
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                      • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                        Thank you Paul. It's important to know that even those who make money from this industry are not buying all this BS. Here's a good example of someone who is also concerned about what "could" happen with Codex Alimentarius, but frankly finds these tremendous exaggerations unhelpful and just wrong. Hey, people say we don't pay attention to what is being said. I have and looked into this. Read what this guy says about Rima Laibow:

                        Is Dr. Rima Laibow Exaggerating About CODEX? Angry Scientist


                        Originally Posted by myob View Post

                        LOL! As a serious niche investor/marketer in the food supplement business myself, I would certainly never listen to anything here. As with anything, you should get your facts from reliable trade sources and journals instead of from a bunch of brawling drunks.

                        For the most part, the codex as applied to the health industry, is to provide truth in labeling; snake oil salesman will be more stringently required to label the ingredients in their snake oil formula, with proof of claims.

                        A perfect example for a need for this type of regulation is the irresponsible marketing and sales of fruit-flavored sugar water sold as exotic elixirs from Hawaii, the tropics, the Amazon and other singular sources that have amazing magical powers. These worthless products are expected to magically disappear from the market.

                        There is a health trade show that I will be attending in Las Vegas this November, and there is certainly no sign of such lunacy in this market as displayed here throughout this thread. If you own a vitamin store or sell food supplements online, come and visit us on Nov 12-13 in Las Vegas. The two day educational package is $695 if you register before Sept 10 (hotel, food, transportation, incidentals etc are extra)

                        SupplySide West International Trade Show & Conference. The worlds largest expo of functional, natural, & healthy supplements.
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                        • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
                          Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                          Thank you Paul. It's important to know that even those who make money from this industry are not buying all this BS. Here's a good example of someone who is also concerned about what "could" happen with Codex Alimentarius, but frankly finds these tremendous exaggerations unhelpful and just wrong. Hey, people say we don't pay attention to what is being said. I have and looked into this. Read what this guy says about Rima Laibow:

                          Is Dr. Rima Laibow Exaggerating About CODEX? Angry Scientist
                          LOL - that was an entertaining, as well as educational read. Thanks Tim.
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                      • Profile picture of the author travelbizcash
                        Originally Posted by myob View Post

                        LOL! As a niche investor/marketer in the food supplement business myself, I would certainly never seriously listen to anything here at all. As with anything, you should get your facts from reliable trade sources and journals instead of from a bunch of brawling drunks.

                        For the most part, the codex as applied to the health industry, is to provide truth in labeling; snake oil salesman will be more stringently required to label the ingredients in their snake oil formula, with proof of claims.

                        A perfect example for a need for this type of regulation is the irresponsible marketing and sales of fruit-flavored sugar water sold as exotic elixirs from Hawaii, the tropics, the Amazon and other singular sources that have amazing magical powers. These worthless products are expected to magically disappear from the market.

                        There is a health trade show that I will be attending in Las Vegas this November, and there is certainly no sign of such lunacy in this market as displayed here throughout this thread. If you own a vitamin store or sell food supplements online, come and visit us on Nov 12-13 in Las Vegas. The two day educational package is $695 if you register before Sept 10 (hotel, food, transportation, incidentals etc are extra)

                        SupplySide West International Trade Show & Conference. The worlds largest expo of functional, natural, & healthy supplements.
                        Interesting,
                        as someone who is selling their health and wellness business I am not selling because of fear tactics.

                        I do have to say that I believe that the health and wellness industry as a whole needs to tell the truth about the supplement or drink etc. I hear to many claims that such-and-such illness was cured by taking xxx supplement.

                        Better to say that taking supplements MAY help PREVENT certain illnesses!

                        I decided to sell my business because frankly I don't have time it takes to actually build the business.

                        But all in all this has been an interesting thread, good, bad and indifferent.
                        Thanks
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                        • Profile picture of the author myob
                          Originally Posted by travelbizcash View Post

                          ...

                          Better to say that taking supplements MAY help PREVENT certain illnesses! ...
                          Let me emphasize that taking supplements is not a substitute for eating a balanced diet of meat/fish/poultry and fruits and vegetables. These are not meant to be taken instead of real food, but only to complement a diet that does not contain them in optimum amounts. The innumerable anecdotal stories of how well people feel are not a substitute for scientific studies, of which there really are many valid ones.

                          I have fired many employees for making claims that anything cures illnesses. We promote healthy lifestyles through educational seminars, books, newsletters and websites as well as a wide selections of vitamins, herbs, and food supplements. My employees are expressly forbidden to make claims just to make a sale, and our education based policy has resulted in record earnings.

                          Selling from a position of education and reason works much better than fear tactics and bullshit.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Dave Patterson
                            Originally Posted by myob View Post

                            Selling from a position of education and reason works much better than fear tactics and bullshit.
                            You'd never make it as a politician...

                            Good post Paul.
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                          • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                            Originally Posted by myob View Post

                            Let me emphasize that taking supplements is not a substitute for eating a balanced diet of meat/fish/poultry and fruits and vegetables. These are not meant to be taken instead of real food, but only to complement a diet that does not contain them in optimum amounts. The innumerable anecdotal stories of how well people feel are not a substitute for scientific studies, of which there really are many valid ones.

                            I have fired many employees for making claims that anything cures illnesses. We promote healthy lifestyles through educational seminars, books, newsletters and websites as well as a wide selections of vitamins, herbs, and food supplements. My employees are expressly forbidden to make claims just to make a sale, and our education based policy has resulted in record earnings.

                            Selling from a position of education and reason works much better than fear tactics and bullshit.
                            LMAO - Well, Paul, that's a real good damned idea since it is ILLEGAL to claim anything non-pharmacuetical is a "cure". Hahahahaha.
                            No matter what that thing will actually do and how many studies support it - you have to disclaimer anything that says "cure" - even close enough gets the Pharm/med complex all jacked out of shape.

                            And I will agree that people need to start learning to eat again. They can take garlic if they want to - a lot will suffer, but I won't because I know another food that does the same damned things. If people won't listen in crowds enough to keep an action out - then you have to study up on how to protect your own ass. I have warned people - and if they don't listen, tough crap, eh? If things go good, I learned something - if the worst comes to pass, it won't effect me.


                            TIM - It's called the CODEX Alimentarius: CODEX isn't a BILL, Tim - it's an international co-ordination of laws - an international regulating body. And it's corrupt as hell.
                            It came around before in 1992 and we shot it down and got the DHSEA - which is about to be overturned without our consent. They can't move on this governing Org. until they over turn that - so we have to make sure they don't.

                            Here's the federal register about compliance - requires the U.S. to conform to Codex in December of 2009 [6]. ... Federal Register: October 11, 1995 (Volume 60, Number 196)

                            FDA's ability to regulate basic vitamins, nutritional supplements and even juices as a "drug" is being snuck in as a rider to an unrelated bill in the Congress [under Docket Number 2006D-0480 ].

                            I remember that there are 167 countries involved but it might be a paranoid memory, LOL. - There are at least 67, though for sure. There are more than 20 Codex Alimentarius Committees. These committees develop guidelines (there are more than 16,000 pages of working documents) on every aspect of food, and present those guidelines to the Codex for ratification. Trade organizations with strong publicly documented ties to the pharmaceutical, chemical and agricultural industries have a very influential voice at these meetings. There has been no significant representation from health advocates, nutritional supplement manufacturers, natural healthcare professionals, or similar groups at the Codex meetings, except for the National Health Federation (NHF), which is the only health-freedom organization with official International Nongovernmental Organization (INGO) status at these meetings.

                            The bills currently of concern (that I know of)
                            HR Bill 759 - Food and Drug Administration Globalization Act of 2009 - I don't want my rights GLOBALIZED. We have a constitution and it doesn't allow for third parties ruling us.

                            HR 875 food safety modernization act - that one is a nightmare. Interesting note: Rosa DeLauro(bill's sponsor) is married to Stanley B. Greenberg. Stanley B. Greenberg is Chairman and CEO of Greenberg Quinlan Rosner Research. -- MONSANTO

                            June 17, 2009. A new food safety bill is on the fast track in Congress-HR 2749, Read it and weep. More global rights and fewer US citizen freedoms and rights.

                            In Canada , Bill C-51 defined nutrients as drugs and provides jail terms for people who use nutrients for health benefits. C-6 is now showing up since C-51 was shut down.

                            GOOD BILLS -
                            In May 2007 Congressman Ron Paul (Texas) re-introduced his Health Freedom Protection Act (HR2117),(11) which was originally introduced in 2005. Congressman Chris Cannon (Utah) has recently introduced his Free Speech Act (HR7120). HR2117 would give consumers access to truthful, non-misleading health information and end FDA censorship by making it easier for manufacturers of vitamins, supplements, and other foods to display health claims on product labels. The bill would also shift FDA resources from over-regulation of safe food substances to what could be considered a much greater risk to consumers, dangerous drugs and medical devices.

                            We need to call our reps and tell them to shut down CODEX - and to support the bills above - AND to leave DHSEA the hell alone!


                            BTW - offtopic but...
                            Text of H.R. 645: National Emergency Centers Establishment Act - The bill is to make Military/emergency centers - but I really shiver when I look at section 2 article 4 -- which only reads:
                            (4) to meet other appropriate needs, as determined by the Secretary of Homeland Security.

                            Does that make YOU feel safe - The Sec can just say - round em up and hold em with absolutely NO restrictions on cause?
                            Holy shit.

                            I'd say we really need to push them to put some VERY restrictive causes for rounding people up and holding them in that one.

                            And"
                            H.R. 1207:
                            Federal Reserve Transparency Act of 2009 - is in trouble despite having 260 sponsors? WTF is going on with our Gov?

                            I'm looking for the original CA document as it existed as signed in 2005 - but can't remember whether it is a UN document or WHO -- I actually think it was WTO -- anyone know which? I can't find the damned thing now, no wonder nobody is reading it!
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                            Sal
                            When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
                            Beyond the Path

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                      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                        Originally Posted by myob View Post

                        LOL! As a niche investor/marketer in the food supplement business myself, I would certainly never seriously listen to anything here at all. As with anything, you should get your facts from reliable trade sources and journals instead of from a bunch of brawling drunks.

                        For the most part, the codex as applied to the health industry, is to provide truth in labeling; snake oil salesman will be more stringently required to label the ingredients in their snake oil formula, with proof of claims.

                        A perfect example for a need for this type of regulation is the irresponsible marketing and sales of fruit-flavored sugar water sold as exotic elixirs from Hawaii, the tropics, the Amazon and other singular sources that have amazing magical powers. These worthless products are expected to magically disappear from the market.

                        There is a health trade show that I will be attending in Las Vegas this November, and there is certainly no sign of such lunacy in this market as displayed here throughout this thread. If you own a vitamin store or sell food supplements online, come and visit us on Nov 12-13 in Las Vegas. The two day educational package is $695 if you register before Sept 10 (hotel, food, transportation, incidentals etc are extra)

                        SupplySide West International Trade Show & Conference. The worlds largest expo of functional, natural, & healthy supplements.
                        You are WRONG in thinking that the FDA has our best interest in mind! They DEMAND that some things NOT be revealed, and have taken drugs off the market for the simplest of reasons! HECK, Michael Jackson may be alive today, if not for the FDA!!!!! YEP, you heard right! There was a rash of suicides by people INTENTIONALLY taking overdoses of sleep pills, and they took them off the market a long time ago. I STILL remember being able to go to the drugstore and get a pill that could knock me out for the night! NOW, NONE will even make me drowsy. They either have a rather worthless drug, or use the herbs/hormones such as melatonin, kava, etc.... IMAGINE if they STILL had the OTC stuff! Michael Jackson could have purchased some cheap drug, taken one pill, and BANG! But NO, you have to go to a doctor and get something stronger, and the quack HE went to gave him general anasthesia, as opposed to a sleeping pill. Run out of oxygen, and you could be DEAD!

                        What about tryptophan? Some IDIOT decides to cut corners to make more profit, and the FDA decides to simply stop ALL tryptophan sales! They FINALLY brought it back, but it took long enough.

                        NOW, they find that a vitamin B can prevent a certain kidney disease, and there are plans to take it off the market to help a drug they are in the midst of approving. They found that the drugs ONLY active ingredient is this vitamin B!

                        WHY don't they enforce their EXISTING laws!? Some companies are saying "only .... approved by the FDA"(ILLEGAL! It implies endorsement and eficacy)! One company said "The FDA found that, for some people,.... benefits outweigh the risks"(ILLEGAL! It implies endorsement and eficacy AND implies that that drug is SPECIAL! ALL FDA approved drugs are ones that "The FDA found, that for some people, benefits outweigh the risks"! THAT IS THEIR JOB!)!

                        And WHAT happened to that place in Japan with the trytophan? One company put my life in DANGER, and told lies about the FDA! And THEY are still acting like nothing ever happened!

                        BTW Truth in labeling has been the law for DECADES! Companies have had RECALLS because of MINOR infractions, like listing the wrong type of oil on the carton!

                        Steve
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                        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                          Steve, let me get this straight. Because some people overdosed on over the counter drugs and the FDA made them non OTC, MJ would still be alive today because "sleep eze" would have been good enough for him? Even though he had been taking stronger and stronger pain relievers ever since 1984? MJ was addicted to narcotics. Having Sleep Eze available wouldn't have helped! LOL. This is some twisted logic.

                          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                          HECK, Michael Jackson may be alive today, if not for the FDA!!!!! YEP, you heard right! There was a rash of suicides by people INTENTIONALLY taking overdoses of sleep pills, and they took them off the market a long time ago. I STILL remember being able to go to the drugstore and get a pill that could knock me out for the night! NOW, NONE will even make me drowsy. They either have a rather worthless drug, or use the herbs/hormones such as melatonin, kava, etc.... IMAGINE if they STILL had the OTC stuff! Michael Jackson could have purchased some cheap drug, taken one pill, and BANG! But NO, you have to go to a doctor and get something stronger, and the quack HE went to gave him general anasthesia, as opposed to a sleeping pill. Run out of oxygen, and you could be DEAD!
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                          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                            Steve, let me get this straight. Because some people overdosed on over the counter drugs and the FDA made them non OTC, MJ would still be alive today because "sleep eze" would have been good enough for him? Even though he had been taking stronger and stronger pain relievers ever since 1984? MJ was addicted to narcotics. Having Sleep Eze available wouldn't have helped! LOL. This is some twisted logic.
                            Funny thing, I don't perceive pain when I am asleep. Believe me, there have been times when I found it HARD to even move, or stay still, because of the pain. And addicts actually wake up regularly for their fix, or they die? What about cold turkey?

                            Sounds like YOU are the one with the twisted logic. BTW WHY did he become an addict? Maybe THAT could have been avoided!

                            Steve