Selling nutrition? Will Codex Alimentarius shut you down 2010?

I hear ya, so, tell me, where do you buy all that nutritional fruits and veggies, in a supermarket??? If you look further into it, you will find your answers. Personally, I got at least a good 20 hours researching this "stuff". Codex A that is. Not to talk about of countless of other hours doing other research.

My point is: This is REAL and if you ARE into making money selling ANYTHING nutrisious, your business is about to CRASH. That is, if this will actually happen (which I'm pretty sure it is, after all, this conspiracy has been built for MANY years and there are some major heavy-hitters behind it).

A head of lettuce or a shiny apple (shine because it has been sprayed with toxins) is NOT going to keep you healthy. And, there are so many ways that you can no longer get ANY nutrition that is sufficient enough to keep you healthy.

I guess you never ever taken a vitamin supplement or anything else, can I please have your recipe !

It is now a criminal offence to commercially grow organic food in the US - the chemical companies were losing too much money on healthy eating, and made sure the politicians they "support" pushed the legislation through.

Grow your own food.

Honestly, I've been wanting to post this here for a long time but been kind of worried about it. We are not talking about some small time punks here and if you do not see any more threads from me, they paid me a visit .

We are talking about BILLIONS here, and then triple that. The common man/woman is the one that will pay the price, not just in America but world-wide.

Google the heck out of it and if you have some spare cash, stock up on essentials while you still have time. It's coming....

No, this is not to scare the h... out of you (but it should), merely an attempt to informe ppl that if you make a living off of nutrition, you need to have a back-up plan.

I agree, to a certain extent. However, how is health, business and making money supposed to be and Off-topic question and also my concern for those who ARE in this business module who might not have any idea about this?

This IS coming and if you support your family on this, time to re-group. Then again, if you have medical problems, by informing you all to stock up, will save you TONS of $.

Best to you, Eva

With all the businesses that will be effected by this ruling it belongs right here because supplements are multi-billion dollar industry - and how many have niches that are directly effected by this ruling? Answer - whoever sells supplements or related products.

And yes - we can believe it - it was already passed and is slated to go into effect in the US in 2010 - already instated in some countries.

Actually the OT warriors DID fight it back in 2005 - mass emails websites. Where the heck was twitter when we needed it?

This is a nightmare situation with foods no longer able to provide proper nutrition because of soil depletion and pollution, pesticides, etc.

The figure I saw was not millions either, though. I saw billions. Who knows how many will succumb - especially with socialized med being installed.

But the point is - FIGHT IT - Last time they passed it at all, our gov got 50 million "not evens" and they still pranced over to Italy and signed the agreement.

If you value your body - sign.
If you have a supplement business you need to get active right away and really spread the word or you will be shut down in 2010. 50 million letters against didn't do it first time - You better be able to come up with a hundred or two million this time.

By the way Eva - thanks for the link - it's getting twittered.

Gosh, who knows.... How do you feed them? Did some research into that too. Google it, you might be surprised...

Hilarious , what brand of foil are you using:confused:

Although I can't see how any government could make garlic illegal, except for the government of Transylvania, I wouldn't put much past the morons in the Canadian government who put unreasonable regulations on nutritional supplements.

I need L-lysine myself to treat my occasional outbreaks of herpes simplex (no, not the other herpes) or canker sores. L-lysine works 100% for me every time. Yet, the Canadian govt decided in the 1980s that all amino acid supplements should be banned, as they "hadn't been proven effective as a neutraceutical". For years, I had to find ways to get L-lysine from the US, or suffer mouth sores.

So, those of you who scoff at this OP or snicker about conspiracy theories, you are putting too much trust in government. No, they do not have YOUR best interest at heart.

As for this being an Off Topic topic, I don't see that. I'm sure there's more than just a few Warriors making money by promoting these products.

This article is misleading. The FDA didn't say a cherry is a drug. That was the author paraphrasing what she thinks the FDA did. All the FDA did was issue warning letters saying the claims they were making about cherries being able to treat and prevent gout, arthritis, lupus and other ailments were unproven. That's not calling cherries drugs.

Also, can someone show me where Canada tried to make Garlic illegal? I have not seen this either and it seems to another case where one person makes a claim, as in the cherries are drugs case, and other simply repeating it. Here's some info about the Canadian bill people are/were worried about:

Government of Canada - Healthy Canadians

Here is some info for you, might be worth a read !

Food manufacturers embraced High Fructose Corn Syrup because it is cheaper than sucrose (table sugar) and mixes well with a variety of products, including beverages, baked goods, jams and jellies, candies, and dairy products.

Excess fructose intake has been associated with adverse health effects such as:
metabolic syndrome, elevated triglyceride levels, hypertension, non-alcoholic fatty liver disease, excess uric acid levels (associated with gout), and elevated levels of advanced glycation end products (linked with aging and complications of diabetes).

Excess fructose intake may contribute to hypertension. High blood pressure is a well-known comorbidity associated with obesity, hyperinsulinemia, and hyperlipidemia

Reasons why you should avoid HCFS:

• Travels straight to the liver where it is metabolized to fat. Fructose converts to fat more than any other sugar.
• Contributes to the development of diabetes and tissue damage. A recent study presented at the 2007 national meeting of the American Chemical Society found new evidence that soft drinks sweetened with high fructose corn syrup contains high levels of reactive compounds that have been shown by others to trigger cell and tissue damage that cause diabetes.
• Does not stimulate insulin production or enhance, leptin, a hormone involved in appetite regulation. Because insulin and leptin act as key signals in regulating how much food you eat, this suggests that dietary fructose may contribute to increased food consumption and weight gain.
• Contains no enzymes, vitamins or minerals; instead, it takes micro-nutrients from your body. The fructose in HFCS is different from the natural fructose you get when you eat a small piece of whole fruit, which contains the nutrients needed for your body to assimilate sugar.
• Increases your triglyceride and LDL (bad cholesterol) levels. Triglycerides are the chemical form of fat found in foods and in your body. Studies show that elevated blood levels of triglycerides increases your risk of heart disease.
• Is almost always made from genetically modified corn, which may increase your risk of developing corn food allergies. The problem with corn allergies are that once you have a corn allergy from GMO corn you will have an allergy to even healthy organic corn products.
• Corn based products such as HFCS have also been shown to increase osteoporosis, tooth decay, anemia and osteoarthritis.
• Fructose interacts with birth control pills and can elevate insulin levels in women on the pill.
• Fructose inhibits copper metabolism leading to a deficiency of copper, which can cause increased bone fragility, anemia, ischemic heart disease and defective connective tissue formation among others.

The list goes on and on.

Aside from the fact that high fructose corn syrup is really bad for your health, I don't think, judging by your picture, that you should go eat that cake and ice cream either way.

Most people (more than) die nowadays from a cancer or heart disease. Use your brain. Stay away from processed foods and add a crapton more veggies and fruits into your diet. Bragging about getting off your computer to go eat something that'll make you sick and make you look sick doesn't make you sound cool on a forum or anywhere else.

I wonder if Michael still feels the
same -

http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...rt-attack.html

Not making light of his situation
and I haven't watched this video -
I hope Michael recovers and has
a healthy future ahead of him.

But we're not all idiots looking for
ways to spend extra money on
worthless food or deprive ourselves
of "what makes life worth living".

And my wife will tell you that I hate
shopping at the health food store
because it's full of "enlightened"
people who are absolutely clueless
that a world around them exists.

(Still, it's undeniable the difference
in appearance between people who
shop at the healthy food store versus
those at Safeway - if you need
proof, just pay attention to that)

You have to ask yourself why herbs
conflicting with medication is the
issue - most medications are 100%
unnecessary (if a person accepts
responsibility for what they put into
their mouth), ALL of them come
with side effects and most afflictions
can be cured, if not prevented, with
natural remedies. Somehow the
human race has made it this far
without pharmaceuticals and they've
done little more than make a few
rich and take away ALL sense of
responsibility for one's health for
the majority, which is why we are
an obese society with serious health
issues - and that's not JUST physical
health, it also affects spiritual and
mental health in significant ways.

Bottom line: you're being sold out
and you're fighting for it.

(I actually laughed the other day
that "made with real sugar" is now a
selling point)

Maybe one day people like Michael
will recognize that food is an
addiction like any other - and some
of us have experienced how much
better life can be by eating the
right stuff.

That said - it's his choice, we all
have the right to make those choices
and every choice has a consequence,
good or bad.

It's too bad that Michael is enduring
what he is right now. But, maybe his
experience will help someone else.

X

The DSHEA act deregulated the industry. You got it backwards.

But you don't mind that the government would tell you what to eat? {Lots more to say here about this, but I will keep politics out of this in respect to the forum}

Alot is suppose to be in the pipeline for 2010 apparently

I could stay up all night But the section on vitamin supplements is only 3 pages long.

~ Peggy

And coffee, vodka, and Guinness... they've all kept me alive through thick and thin.

Thank you Johnathan. I'm not a health freak but I DO read labels and its really scary what they call "FOOD" these days, its all about making a profit.

As far as Codex A goes, its real and it is coming.

I have seen Supersize Me. It's an awesome movie, very enjoyable and informative. In fact, I enjoy almost everything Morgan Spurlock has done.

So, you can stop jumping to conclusions.

And I wasn't snickering or laughing. I truly believe people will believe anything, and that the video in the OP is a bunch of nonsense.

For the record, I have seen Supersize Me several times, and I still enjoy getting double cheeseburgers and fries from McDonald's.

All the best,
Michael

Floride is a natural ingredient in water. The notion that the famous "they" decided to redistribute it in drinking water because there was no other way to store the chemical by products is ridiculous and laughable. It ranks right up there with the floride conspriracy theory in the 50s which said the commies were using it to impose a socialist regime. This CT was lampooned in Stanley Kubrick's 1964 film Dr. Strangelove, in which the character General Jack D. Ripper initiates a nuclear war in the hope of thwarting a communist plot to "sap and impurify" the "precious bodily fluids" of the American people with fluoridated water.

I tried garlic for my tooth ache. Worked like a charm.

I also just got some oil of oregano. Whoa, this stuff is powerful. It could probably kill the pain of a freshly amputated limb. It's 20x more powerful than ambesol. The taste is 1000x nastier than any medicine you've ever tried, but it works really well. Will get me through until I can get to the doctor.

Doing some research on the oregano oil. I'm surprised this stuff isn't more popular.

Dave Maschke

Thank you for that, Eva

X'd out from public use? What are you talking about, most of the items that you mentioned are very well still available.

Ha, ha, now THAT is funny , but not really ! The sad truth is, Codex Alimentarius will ruin MANY lives.

Well said.

I agree 100% so long as the healthy people don't have to pay the medical bills of the junk food eaters!

Sure. Minerals are found in spring water since they get filtered through the earth. Here's a site that sells spring water and they advertise it as natural flouride water:

Poland Spring - Sources Of Water, Mineral Contents & The Water Cycle - Know H2O | Nestlé

Many times the flouride in ground water is much higher than the level in tap water. Sometimes the water needs to have the flouride level lowered.

In the late 1800's people noticed in some parts of Colorado the population had brown teeth. They called this the Colorado Brown Stain. They started investigating and found also that the local kids had low cases of cavities. What they eventually found out was that the natural flouride levels were high which caused dental fluorosis and prevented the cavities.

Thousands of people have successfully overcome cancer, using either or both traditional and non-traditional means.

It's nothing like that at all.
What I ment and gave examples of is the simple fact of life and death.
You can live any type of life style you want, but when your time is up that's it.
I didn't say that both people in my examples physically or mentally felt the same while they where alive. I didn't say you shouldn't eat what you think are the right foods or have a life style you are comfortable or happy with.
There are only two things we all have in common.
We all where born, and we all will die. What ever we do after we are born will do nothing to change the fact that we will die when it is our time.

So yes that sentence was general, it was ment to be.
But to say it's irresponsible is pretty ridiculous, we all will die when it is our time. Knowing and excepting that one fact of life frees you from the fear of death and allows you to appreciate every moment you have before it happens.

Obviously you don't have a clue as to what my statement means.
You seem to think I'm saying that you can do whatever you want and it doesn't matter.
When all I am saying is that we all at some time will die.
Stop trying to read more into that statement then what is there.

I think you missed quit a bit.

And you thought I never listened when you talked here
Did you leave that rock here?
I know you left some pretty neat ones, but you also know I don't know rocks.:rolleyes:

So one third of the population has brown teeth? I guess I live in a different area. Where are these people?

I don't get it, just because of the fact that I am alerting you about Codex, you think there is something WRONG with my cooking or that I am eating the WRONG food or that I have some SPECIFIC ISSUE? Quite hilarious, to say the least !

Quote: " You don't need vitamins. [quote]. I guess each of us has the right to our opinion, enough said.

Ah yes - medical professionals. You mean the guys that take the classes written by pharmaceutical companies - the ones who usually have less background in nutrition than nurses receive. The guys that want us to believe that cholesterol is bad for your heart and can cause heart attacks (and yes I do know that there are two types). The guys that tell us low fat diets are good for us instead of certain kinds of fats are dangerous. The guys that make us ask for ascorbic acid infusions before they give them to us if we are in the hospital dying of flu.

CODEX will make it almost impossible to get concentrations of ascorbic acid in a form in which you can get fast doses high enough to kill flu viruses.

It also labels garlic and B6 and other nutrients as toxins. Toxins? Okay.

Yet it does not stop the addition of MSG or trans-fatty acids to our foods. It doesn't take aspertime out of our food.

It is pretty likely to bring the population down to carrying capacity level, though.


Paul - yes - you Californians have some pretty white teeth - those tooth whiteners aren't all that safe either though. LOL.
Of course - you might live in one of the areas that has successfully gotten fluoridation taken out of their water. Last time I looked there were now 1.700 Dentists and dental associations fighting fluoride. A lot of areas are successfully taken out of their water. Many areas here in WA are now fluoride additive free, there are a few areas in which it occurs in natural form, though. Most, if not all, of Europe is now fluoride free, too. I think many areas in Canada have successfully banned it as well. They had the World Fluoride Convention up there last fall and it was looking good for bans.

If anyone wants to see the professional's opinions - dentists, doctors, medical associations, and environmental agencies research and action on the subject of fluoride instead of just hearing what I have to say about it, it's right here - and you can find here if your area fluoridates or not, too:
Fluoride Action Network

And no remarks about tinfoil.....tinfoil is very passee - the latest craze is electrostatic bags.

Everyone I know is showing signs of severe flouride deficiency - their teeth are white. Is there a supplement we should be taking to correct this?

Seriously, you need to do some heavy research because it is actually set to take effect January 1, 2010. (in the U.S.).

Its not about the need, its about being able to have the opportunity to supplement if you so choose.

As far as myself, do not do c heezy puffs or gatorade, do not even drink any kind of soda, bc its BAD for you .

BTW, peaches are the MOST TOXIC of all fruit, DO NOT EAT THEM if they are not ORGANIC !

Have a great day!

Quote: "we should ask who stands to profit the most from the implementation of CA before readily accepting it into our lives.

The version of Codex that we endorse includes wording that would provide government regulation of synthetic vitamins and supplements, while leaving 100 percent organic, naturally occurring herbs, vitamins and supplements outside of its scope.

We are FIGHTING to make sure the final version of Codex provides much needed enforcement of synthetic vitamins and supplements, while leaving 100 percent organic and naturally occurring herbs, vitamins and supplements outside of its scope."

Yes, they are FIGHTING!

Simple question: Why should they have to FIGHT?

I have to jump in again on this thread as this guy is living in cloud cuckoo land.

I thought I had stamped his fire out but it looks like he has had a new spark catch again.

If you did your proper research before spewing garbage out of your ignorant mind, you would see that the government is trying to ban a number of herbs right now, has already done so many times in the past and is trying desperately to dumb down what can be classed as organic.

All to the benefit of large pharma, genetically modified food growers and seed suppliers and for all the other big money companies who finance/lobby the stooges.

Oh and by the way, as an example, it only needs a tiny bit of vitamin C to avoid scurvy, but if you want optimum health your body benefits from higher levels than the minimum recommended dosages. These were set up to act as a guideline for the various vitamin related diseases earlier last century.

There is a big difference between being fat and unhealthy at one end of the spectrum, being apparently "normal" in the middle and being super-healthy at the far end of the spectrum.

A big mac and fries has quite a lot of vitamins in it. But does that make it healthy if you eat it everyday washed down with a couple of litres of coke?

I hereby, request you eat the big mac now and pour the coke over what is left of your little flame.

I'm off to peel a banana, drink my juice and go for a little bicycle ride in the fresh air.

Bye.

Totally agree with you Michael. The supplements are unregulated and they should be regulated. Orrin Hatch was the main guy behind the 1994 bill which deregulated the supplement industry. I was made aware of this by listening to Dr. Dean Adell for many years. One of his pet peeves was the DSHEA act of 1994. It basically deregulated the supplement industry just as Michael is describing.

Here's an article which describes this bill as being responsible for the "golden age of quackery":

Utah, a supplement abuse hatchery. (01-NOV-01) NCAHF Newsletter

Well you won't see any helicopters so long as you keep wearing those blinders on your head.

Hey Sam.

My vested interest is the truth. Not BS.

Thanks for that Sal. I did check that site out and have seen that one before. I do think it is biased on the side of the anti flouridation people. Here's a site that is biased to the side of the pro flouidation people:

Vote NO on Measure W

I think having flouride in the drinking water regulated should be voted on in each local district. It's been done in some areas and it's a good way to get people interested in this debate and knowledgable about what is in their water. It was voted on in Fort Collins and 2/3rds of the people decided to keep flouridation.

By the way, that site above has a review of the Flouride Deception book and makes some good points:

Vote NO on W

LOL - Sal, you took my comments to an entirely different level. Let me go through yours a bit. As you might learn, I am not all that far off from your line of thinking. I am simply more skeptical of BOTH sides - not just the government side...

Sal, don't mistake lack of participation in the OT forum as a sign I don't visit. I have been a member of the forum since 1999 - my post count reflects the level of participation. I would much rather read, learn and study (both subjects AND people) than to simply participate for the sake of participating. I am on the OT forum more than you may think, and it may surprise you to know I probably know more about you than you think...

Ok, having said that, let me respond to specifics:

Down on Doctors? I never mentioned doctors. And I never said anyone was down on them. What I observe is that when people point to GOVERNMENT studies, they are typically "pooh-poohed" by those on the other side of the debate as nothing more than stuff to pull the wool over they eyes of the sheep. Go back through this very thread and you will see similar comments.

FDA - there is NOTHING you can tell me about the FDA that I either don't already know or at the very least, suspect. With 20 years working in the pharmaceutical industry, AND dealing with the FDA personally, I am more than qualified to render opinions here.

I know full well, what the FDA's STATED mission is, and what their ACTUAL mission is. It's one of the things that you may be surprised that I agree with you on. Big business is the interest, with SAFETY coming in second.

Yeah, pretty poor way to "protect" the people, but understand also that when you get down to the personnel level of the FDA - as in the actual safety inspectors - the ones not taking bribes ARE actually concerned about the safety of the consumers.

Like I stated - I don't think ANYTHING is completely one way or the other.


Well, since I never brought up doctors or nurses, I won't comment here. Quite frankly, after witnessing my niece die a slow and painful death from colon cancer (at the age of 18 no less) I have NOTHING but the utmost respect for doctors and nurses. I don't envy them at all in cases like this.

Now, in my niece's case, there were things tried on BOTH fronts - all with big promises, studies, etc. but in the end, not one thing we did mattered one iota. Nothing helped. What do you say to my sister who was at her bedside, fighting hard, after all of this?

Not much, let me tell you...

My comment here was because you had specifically stated that you were in no mood to go searching again. But as I am sure you already know, MOST people will not go through a 4 page thread and read thoroughly all posts. So, when they come in on page 4 asking for some proof, you have a choice - tell them to look it up or point them. I would say though, that if you are trying to get people to hear you, I suggest making it easier for them.

Personally speaking, I never even HEARD of this CODEX thing until this thread. Does that mean I am a clueless guy? Or simply that there are so MANY things to focus our attention on that we have to pick and choose. I'm sorry, but it's impossible to champion every cause you come across - no matter what the consequences.

Well, pointing to a site with an agenda (one way or the other) it would stand to reason that it WOULD contain every "proof" that it wants to show you. Just as I am sure others could show you "proof" of a different kind, not in line with those. What does it actually prove when 2000 scientists, etc. do a study and get ONE result, and another 2000 scientists do a study on the same subject and get a different result?

It proves that there's more than one result - the one they want to see.

You see why it's hard for people to simply swallow what they're told simply because some website lists a bunch of results from "scientists"they never heard of? I mean, have you verified the qualifications of all these scientists?

Silly, right? I think so too. That's another reason I NEVER swallow fully what I am told from ANY side of an argument. I am a realists - I believe in the old addage that there is one side, there is the other side, and somewhere in the middle is the truth.

See my response to this above about people not reading 4 pages of threads fully. Can't change human nature. If it frustrates you, you can always stop participating in the threads...it's a personal choice.

Actually it does not surprise me. Again - 20 years in the pharmaceutical biz...



Drugs are complicated. Difficult to study, R&D, produce, package and educate people on. If you listen to the commercials for all the bullshit drugs on the market today (I mean, Restless Leg Syndrome? WTF is THAT all about! LOL) listen to the side effects. They're usually worse than the condition it's treating!

I for one will not take drugs unless absolutely necessary. My 5 year old is smarter than some - he 100% refuses to take ANYthing (thank goodness he's never needed anything urgently!). I had surgery about 7 years ago. The doctor prescribed Percoset for the pain. After one day of that shit, I took myself off and dealt with the pain.

As I have stated on several occassions in this forum - comeing from the drug manufacturing business, I see first hand what goes in to these drugs people put in to their bodies.

But I digress - as I stated earlier - I never mentioned doctors.

Now, Sal, this is where my argument was coming from. You think you're spelling things out to the uneducated. But it comes across typically as "Believe what we say because these experts say so. And by the way, your experts are all full of bunk"

Now, that was a generalization, and not really meant for you, but as someone who TRIES to see both sides of an issue, the passion from both sides really BLINDS you from even attempting to listen to what the other side has to say. It has on this CODEX issue - both sides.

Sorry Sal, but in this day and age, the only time people tend to get involved is when something directly threatens their way of life. And quite frankly, with all the bullshit that goes on in this country, just TRYING to keep informed is enough to drive a sane person crazy - and back.

Is that sad? Depends on where you're sitting, but it is what it is. If you're expecting it to change any time soon, then it's time you had a reality check.

People are lazy and don't care if they're lied to repeatedly. Hell, look in the regular forum and the Reviews forum. All people want is a way to have things with no work on their part. And oh, yeah...for free. They also take their civil liberties for granted. Most people do.

If you really want to make a change, then run for an office, get out of the forum and on to T.V. or radio - something. The audience is way too limited here.

You're not going to want to hear this, but you are only partially correct here. I have suffered through MANY FDA inspections, and how much is a breeze through depends on why they are there.

There are general inspections, which are made at random, unannounced, to ensure companies are "doing the right thing" (whatever that means). They are typically breezed through.

Then there are the inspections where a drug company wants approval on a new drug. In this case, I have not sat through one that was a "breeze through". They took months to get through all of the inspections, reinspections, and all manner of crap. Drugs had to be tested, tested and tested again. Pass within a certain tolerance, and so on. They can drag on for a LONG time.

But, that doesn't mean the drugs that pass are any safer.

The there are the inspections where a complaint was made or a very public issue happens. I have witnessed more than one drug company be put out of business from the fines levied upon them. I have participated in the aftermath of inspections, where companies were FINED over a BILLION dollars, then STILL had to make MAJOR renovations in order to stay in business.

And I know first hand of three men, partners in a drug company, who were decent men, go to jail because of the way OTHER'S in their company were doing things, got caught, FDA stepped in. It goes to the top - the founders are still in prison.

So, saying ALL FDA activity is ONLY in the best interest of big business is simply wrong - and silly. Sorry, but no manner of websites with "proof" will change the mind of someone who saw first hand what the FDA does to companies who they feel are endangering the public.


Again, read above at my thoughts. I do believe that in some ways they ARE acting in our best interest. But of course, in other ways, they are not.

Frankly though, there are so many things that are bad for us that even if you multiplied the FDA staff by ten times, there would STILL be too much for them to do. They are grossly understaffed for what they are charged with overseeing. This is one reason I don't necessarily believe it's ALL about protecting big business. They just simply can't do more - or, perhaps big business keeps the agency from growing for just that reason... who knows.

Again Sal - go back and read what I wrote. I never said I trusted everything the government said.

This - again - is part of my argument. The fact that you seem to lump ANYTHING positive I said about the government into me saying I swallow everything they say.

Let me say this one more time...

I do NOT believe ANYTHING told to me as pure 100% gospel from ANY side of a debate or issue. Hope that was clear.

And for the record, what does the bailout have to do with this discussion? I never mentioned it, nor do I think it's pertinent to this debate. It seems to me it was simply more fodder thrown in to muddle the issue at hand. Quite possibly? You tell me, since I never brought this bailout thing into the mix...

Never called you a nutcase either.

Funny though - your one complaint is how people are not reading all the info out there, or in your posts, yet you seem to have not read - or understood - mine.

Pot calling the kettle black, perhaps?

And, finally, nothing I said was meant to be personal. I do read your posts, quite frequently. I do think you make good arguments at times. I have a great deal of respect for you. So don't make my "disagreement" with your viewpoint into some personal thing.

Trust me - we don't know each other well enough to be that personal. I simply state my beliefs. You can make what you want out of them, but it's in no way any kind of personal attack on you.

Thanks for reading.

Mike