US CUSTOMS TRIES TO STEAL BAG PIPES!

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US teenagers have bagpipes seized at Canada border after competition | World news | theguardian.com

Apparently, they managed to get the non ivory parts. They FINALLY got the GRANDFATHERED ivory back:

NH Teens Recover Prized Bagpipes Seized At Canadian Border Over Ivory « CBS Boston

NOW, I wonder if they will be stopped when they come back AGAIN!

Steve
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    They're lucky they got their stuff back. The gov is becoming real good at stealing your stuff and not giving it back even if there are no charges against you.
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    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
      Oh, but you see people swan across the Canadian border with live elephants all the time. No problem sir, is it thirsty, here's a bottle of Fanta.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

        Oh, but you see people swan across the Canadian border with live elephants all the time. No problem sir, is it thirsty, here's a bottle of Fanta.
        I don't know if they do or not, but there are only like 4 reasons to have an elephant in the US:

        1. To stock a zoo. <<< LEGAL, but could be hard.
        2. To stock a reserve. <<< LEGAL, but could be hard.
        3. If you are RICH and go to the right trouble, MAYBE as a pet. <<< LEGAL, but could be VERY hard.
        4. To KILL!!!!!!!!! <<<TOTALLY ILLEGAL!

        And there may be different requirements, like a quarantine and local checkup. In the US, they even forbid some produce from being imported, due to diseases and pests that aren't in the US.

        So you would think that people taking elephants into the US would have EVERY form, etc.... Then again, THESE guys apparently did ALSO!

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Yes I am totally in sympathy with the elephants (even though bagpipes are one of my favorite instruments).

    Do you realize that they are almost becoming extinct thanks to the *(%@$# scum bag poachers? We should call open season on them but I don't know what they would have to harvest that would be worth anything.

    WWF - Threats to African elephants

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...-cites-census/
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

      Yes I am totally in sympathy with the elephants (even though bagpipes are one of my favorite instruments).

      Do you realize that they are almost becoming extinct thanks to the *(%@$# scum bag poachers? We should call open season on them but I don't know what they would have to harvest that would be worth anything.

      WWF - Threats to African elephants

      100,000 Elephants Killed by Poachers in Just Three Years, Landmark Analysis Finds
      YEAH! Elephants and whales have materials that HUNDREDS of years ago were seen as about as valuable, versatile, and free, as plastic. Eventually, they BOTH ended up being endangered as even FAMILIES.

      But there is a LOT of stuff made LONG ago that has such materials. ART, JEWELRY, INSTRUMENTS, etc.... Not just bagpipes, for example, but accordions, pianos, necklaces, broaches, earrings, etc... So they grandfathered all that stuff in when they outlawed NEW ivory and scrimshaw, etc...

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I would love to see elephant or ivory poachers shot on site. What is just irrational to me is that if someone is that damned hot for ivory, why can't they wait until the elephants die, and then harvest instead of brutally slaughtering the animals. Not just elephants and whales - now sharks are in trouble....and the poachers are damned demented and cruel enough to cut the fin off a live animal, throw it back live, knowing that it will drown without it. People who have so little compassion for the pain of another being that they will do these things need off the planet. No room for sociopathically deranged scum.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I would love to see elephant or ivory poachers shot on site. What is just irrational to me is that if someone is that damned hot for ivory, why can't they wait until the elephants die, and then harvest instead of brutally slaughtering the animals. Not just elephants and whales - now sharks are in trouble....and the poachers are damned demented and cruel enough to cut the fin off a live animal, throw it back live, knowing that it will drown without it. People who have so little compassion for the pain of another being that they will do these things need off the planet. No room for sociopathically deranged scum.
      WOW, I never heard about them doing that with sharks. What a WASTE! People DO eat SHARK ALSO!

      As for whales, obviously they will drown or be eaten if they die. Elephants apparently are reverent about their dead, etc... I don't know if they will even let you take them.

      But you DO miss one key problem. If they let you import such things from a dead animal, how do they know it died without any assistance? They have about the best and most fair method right now. That is saying a LOT where the US government is involved! Basically, they outlawed ALL new ivory and scrimshaw, and allow older objects with proper provenance to be treated as if they DON'T have such things.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author socialentry
    This is outrageous. US customs should be disbanded.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    BTW the ONLY reason they outlawed this stuff was to try to make it virtually worthless so poachers would do something else. OBVIOUSLY, it only works when ALL the bigger buyers do it, and nothing else can be used.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
    Outlawing the possession of ivory has driven the supply down. The demand has stayed the same. Thus, the price that the poacher gets for the ivory has made it worth the risk.

    The only way to stop poaching is to make getting caught not worth the risk. Throw a poacher in a pen with a pissed-off elephant or rhino. When the animal calms down, piss it off again. Rinse and repeat until the poacher is road slime.

    THEN you find whoever was paying the poacher, and throw them into the mix as well.

    We couldn't do that here, because I suppose it is both cruel and unusual punishment. But they could do it in Africa.
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post

      Outlawing the possession of ivory has driven the supply down. The demand has stayed the same. Thus, the price that the poacher gets for the ivory has made it worth the risk.

      The only way to stop poaching is to make getting caught not worth the risk. Throw a poacher in a pen with a pissed-off elephant or rhino. When the animal calms down, piss it off again. Rinse and repeat until the poacher is road slime.

      THEN you find whoever was paying the poacher, and throw them into the mix as well.

      We couldn't do that here, because I suppose it is both cruel and unusual punishment. But they could do it in Africa.
      Cruel and Unusual punishment is life in prison for smoking a joint. It's not cruel to take a dangerous sociopath off the planet. What do you think would happen to any human that accidentally strolled across the path of a poacher in action? If you think that person would survive, you're kidding yourself. These people don't care what they do as long as the price is right........and it doesn't matter what animal - human or nonhuman.
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  • Profile picture of the author socialentry
    Wow, those poachers are like modern day pirates.

    Except they are on the earth, not on the seas. Perhaps one day they will make a show on the poachers like Pirates of the Carribeans.
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    • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
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      Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

      Wow, those poachers are like modern day pirates.

      Except they are on the earth, not on the seas.
      They are at sea as well --> poaching walruses for their ivory tusks.

      Cheers

      -don
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

        They are at sea as well --> poaching walruses for their ivory tusks.

        Cheers

        -don
        I FORGOT about seals, you're right. And whales teeth.

        Here is one site selling scrimshaw: Scrimshaw Whales Tooth

        MAN, you could start talking about the folk cures, and other animals killed for THEM. Some people are even killing kangaroos for some parts.

        Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author socialentry
        Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

        They are at sea as well --> poaching walruses for their ivory tusks.

        Cheers

        -don
        Sailors, hunters, marskmen, soldiers, pirates, smugglers.

        Is there anything the poachers cannot do?

        They sound like the modern day Han solo.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

          Sailors, hunters, marskmen, soldiers, pirates, smugglers.

          Is there anything the poachers cannot do?

          They sound like the modern day Han solo.
          GIVE ME A BREAK! They probably specialize. So elephant poachers almost certainly won't poach whales or seals, and probably not crocadillions. They also wouldn't act as military soldiers, or pirate ships, etc...

          They are simply hunters that DON'T CARE about the law, waste, or destroying species. The smuggling is the cheaters way of getting things elsewhere. BTW smugglers have various tricks. Ever see home alone 3? smugglers steal a secret chip, place it inside a toy, and switch it with an unsuspecting traveler. THAT way, they will never be found with the chip, and if someone finds the toy, they will never know about the chip. Of course, being a comedy, they fail to get the toy, and it is given to a kid that is "home alone"!

          So there are a LOT of ways to smuggle. BTW the US airports run warnings about letting others touch your bags, so I guess it is fairly common.

          Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Adie
    Why don't they go to Africa and arrest poachers instead of waiting at the border? This is ridiculous..
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Adie View Post

      Why don't they go to Africa and arrest poachers instead of waiting at the border? This is ridiculous..
      Could you imagine? To talk with ONE continent(perhaps hundreds of officials) to have tens of thousands of people to go down there and watch everyday? It would cost a fortune, be dangerous, and not too effective. I mean if we have them do that, what would the american tax payer be paying for? I mean MILLIONS of dollars to maybe save one elephant? And what about indonesia and other places? I mean we COULD hire half the population as personal bodyguards for the other half, and forget about police and the courts! So they simply add the chief commodities to customs lists. That IS, admittedly, one of the official purposes of customs.

      Nothing is perfect, but sometimes you have to accept a compromise. And this is the compromise for endangered animals.

      Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
      Originally Posted by Adie View Post

      Why don't they go to Africa and arrest poachers instead of waiting at the border? This is ridiculous..
      Erm, probably because US customs officials, police etc., have no authority there.
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