141 {{ upvoteCount | shortNum }}
141 {{ upvoteCount | shortNum }}

Gene Simmons - Rock Is Dead

by Steven Wagenheim
116 replies
  • OFF TOPIC
    • |
Must read article if you care.

Gene Simmons: 'Rock Is Finally Dead' - Esquire

And he is 100% dead right as to why.
  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    I don't agree with the file sharing rant because the nobodies of music today all have their music on the same file sharing sites as Elvis, The Beatles, Jackson, etc...

    Gene is stuck in 1976 & doesn't understand things like Youtube as the next generation of music/publicity.

    Even the tween idol Justin Bieber was found on Youtube. Sure he sucks, but that's what teens want today. I don't agree that's music worth listening to but millions of teens pay his bills everyday. That's all that matters for him & kids buying his concert tickets.

    The exact same was true with Kiss in the 1970's, the difference is the style of publicity.

    Keep in mind that parents in the 70's thought Kiss was low quality/evil. History repeats...
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9500052].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    It's not dead. I just attended the Rockstar Mayhem Fest in Tinley Park headlined by Korn and Avenged Sevenfold and the place was packed with 25,000+ rabid fans.

    Not dead yet...



    I'm going to see Five Finger Death Punch, Volbeat and Hell Yeah here in CR in 2 weeks.



    I won't miss Slipnot and Korn in Moline in November.


    Metal is alive and well in the Midwest...

    Cheers

    -don
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9500117].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Here is what can't be denied. Look at the Billboard Top 100 charts (what I grew up with) and show me all the hard rock bands on the charts. I'll wait.

      Totally dead? Maybe not totally, but nothing like what it was in its glory. This isn't even open for debate,

      And as for the Justin Bieber thing, Simmons was talking about "rock". Not pop, not dance, not R&B not any of that other stuff which seems to thrive in the new environment. He's talking about rock.

      That's what's dead or at the very least on life support.

      Again, show me the Billboard top rock artists.
      Signature
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9500136].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Here is what can't be denied. Look at the Billboard Top 100 charts (what I grew up with) and show me all the hard rock bands on the charts. I'll wait.

        Totally dead? Maybe not totally, but nothing like what it was in its glory. This isn't even open for debate,

        And as for the Justin Bieber thing, Simmons was talking about "rock". Not pop, not dance, not R&B not any of that other stuff which seems to thrive in the new environment. He's talking about rock.

        That's what's dead or at the very least on life support.

        Again, show me the Billboard top rock artists.
        Gene mentioned Prince, Prince was Pop/R&B music.

        BTW, Elvis also sang R&B & Gospel.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9500188].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Simmons was talking about "rock". Not pop, not dance, not R&B not any of that other stuff which seems to thrive in the new environment. He's talking about rock.
        I agree with you and Simmons up to a point.

        During the period that Simmons was referring to, rock thrived because the emphasis switched from singles to albums. Prior to that period, the music industry was full of artists who looked good, could carry a tune and were pretty good dancers. The "stars" were exploited, they almost always had their songs written for them, most of them made no money, and they were disposed of as soon as their "star" faded, or when the next new "star" came along.

        Also the emphasis was on songs. Albums in those days consisted of a handful of hits and a lot of "filler".

        The "industry" was firmly in control.

        From the mid 60's to probably the early 80's, the bands/artists wrote their own songs decided for themselves what they would wear, what hairstyle they had, etc., etc..

        They also started concentrating on albums rather than individual songs. A lot of bands from that era didn't even bother releasing singles. The artists were in control of their output for the most part.

        Now it's come full circle. The industry is back in control. Songs are written by in-house writers, the artists get told what to play, what to wear, etc., etc..

        The artists are merely vehicles used to market songs.

        A lot of the problem is not file sharing, as back in the 70's and 80's there was a lot of tape-sharing going on, and the bootleg industry was thriving. Nowadays, or at least since the introduction of mp3's, people buy individual songs rather than albums. That is a lot of the problem right there.

        Like I said, I agree with Simmons up to a point. There is still a lot of good rock out there, you just have to look harder for it. You won't find it on the majority of radio stations though, and you definitely won't see it on MTV, and you're certainly not going to see it on come out of the current crop of exploitation shows (X Factor etc.), but it is out there.
        Signature
        Why do garden gnomes smell so bad?
        So that blind people can hate them as well.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9500225].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Again, show me the Billboard top rock artists.
        A lot of competition out there these days... While Kiss is no longer relevant, many other great acts are. And yeah, I had tickets to the CR show on the Kiss Destroyer tour way back in the day. I also had backstage passes to that show which I sold prior the concert.

        Plenty of great metal is being played today. I mentioned seeing Korn, Avenged Sevenfold, Slipnot, Volbeat, and Five Finger Death Punch above... Here are their last album releases.

        Avenged Sevenfold's Hail to the King

        AVENGED SEVENFOLD's new album, "Hail To The King", has registered the following first-week chart positions:

        USA: #1
        UK: #1
        Canada: #1
        Ireland: #1
        Mexico: #1
        Brazil: #1
        Australia: #2
        Finland: #2
        New Zealand: #3
        Germany: #5
        The Netherlands: #6
        Italy: #8

        Read more at Avenged Sevenfold: More 'Hail To The King' First Week Chart Positions Revealed - Blabbermouth.net
        Korn's Paradigm Shift

        The Paradigm Shift sold 46,000 copies in the United States in its first week of release, and debuted and peaked at No. 8 on the Billboard 200, making it Korn's twelfth studio album to peak in the top ten

        The Paradigm Shift - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
        Slipnot's All Hope Is Gone (yeah, I know, they have not released an album in a while but that's changing on Oct. 21)

        According to Billboard magazine, SLIPKNOT has scored an instant No. 1 on European Top 100 Albums chart with its latest album, "All Hope Is Gone" (Roadrunner). SLIPKNOT's chart-topping European debut follows consecutive No. 2 entries on the aggregate chart for its last two albums, 2004's "Vol. 3 (The Subliminal Verses)" and "Iowa" in 2001. The new set arrives at No. 1 in Finland and Switzerland, and enjoys three further No. 2 debuts, in Germany, Austria and the United Kingdom, the latter on sales of 49,000. It's in at No. 3 in France, Ireland and Norway, No. 4 in Denmark, No. 7 in Portugal and No. 9 in Spain.

        "All Hope Is Gone" claimed the coveted #1 debut slot on Billboard's Top 200 chart, after an extraordinary SoundScan recount.

        Read more at Slipknot's 'All Hope Is Gone' Is A European Chart Smash - Blabbermouth.net
        Volbeat's Outlaw Gentleman and Ladies

        Denmark: #1
        Canada: #1
        Germany: #1
        Norway: #1
        Switzerland: #1
        Austria: #1
        Finland: #2
        The Netherlands: #4
        Sweden: #4
        USA: #9

        Read more at Volbeat: More 'Outlaw Gentlemen & Shady Ladies' First Week Chart Positions Revealed - Blabbermouth.net
        Five Finger Death Punch's Wrong Side of Heaven

        FIVE FINGER DEATH PUNCH's fourth studio album, "The Wrong Side Of Heaven And The Righteous Side Of Hell Volume 1", sold around 112,000 copies in the United States in its first week of release to land at position No. 2 on The Billboard 200 chart. The record arrived in stores on July 30 via Prospect Park.

        Read more at Five Finger Death Punch's 'Wrong Side Of Heaven' Enters U.S. Chart At No. 2 - Blabbermouth.net
        Many of the metal artists have stayed true to themselves and they are NOT merely marketing vehicles. The majority of the songs being played by many of these acts are still being written by the members themselves.

        And yes, in my area you can still find a lot of rock on the radio....classic, metal, alternative, and pop rock.

        Cheers

        -don
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9500284].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
      Gene Simmons has always been more showbiz than rock 'n' roll, but in the interview, he falls into the same old trap as other "death of music" doom-mongers by confusing the health of music with the health of the music business - and in particular, the corporate music industry.

      The rise of the internet as a distribution channel and the technological progress in recording techniques and equipment has afforded opportunities to countless musicians - the vast majority of whom would never have been given a glimpse inside a studio under the old system of major record company monopoly.

      I don't grieve for the passing of those record company giants. The old industry was first and foremost a star-maker machinery* business model, with the actual music often of secondary concern. The point made in the article about the perceived lack of icons such as The Beatles, The Stones and Dylan in recent decades, ignores the evolving cultural significance of popular music in our society. When we were growing up, music was just about the only creatively accessible outlet for frustrated and disaffected youth. There are far more options available for both the artist and the entertainment consumer nowadays. In some ways, the rise of rock 'n' roll as a cultural phenomenon can be seen as the early stirrings of the subsequent widespread "cult of celebrity" across virtually all media.

      It's now much easier to make and distribute a recording. Yes, the chances of rising to super celebrity status and becoming the next rock icon are slim to none, especially without some major industry promotion, but true musicians don't enter the business for that reason. They're content with making a living writing and performing their songs.

      I was lucky enough to catch one such artist, Israel Nash, at a small club in London last week. Here's someone who put out his first album independently, picked up gigs wherever he could, and thanks to the viral nature of the technology so bemoaned by Gene Simmons, built up a large enough following to prompt an indie label to sign him up (under his terms). He's just issued his third album, recorded in his own house. What's more important is that this is great rock music, reminiscent of Neil Young or early Jayhawks, that would probably have been ignored by the big labels in the so-called heyday of popular music.

      Don't waste your time mourning the death of the music industry. Go out and discover for yourself that music - including rock - is very much alive and kicking.


      Frank

      *Thanks to Joni, of course, for the reference.


      Signature


      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9500144].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        Simmons is a consummate show biz person. It was a good interview to give his SON.

        Best Rock Songs of 2014 (So Far)
        Signature
        Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
        ***
        One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
        what it is instead of what you think it should be.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9500164].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          Simmons is a consummate show biz person. It was a good interview to give his SON.

          Best Rock Songs of 2014 (So Far)
          I saw the 4th one on the list you linked live at Mayhem Fest in July. Ice-T and the boys from Bodycount were killing it and they were not even close to being the headliner that day. In-fact they did not even make the main stage.


          Cheers

          -don
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9500218].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
        Maybe the days of super stars is over, but "rock is dead", nope.
        I think with Gene it was always about the money and not about the music. Kiss came about when dressing up and being theatrical was the rage, you know like David Bowie with his Ziggy Stardust, the New York Dolls, and Mott the Hoople. Didn't Kiss go Disco for a while when it was popular?
        Here's three comments on that article that I think sums it up pretty well.
        The music business may be dead but the music is still there and it's good. It's in the bars and clubs, not television and radio. Support and enjoy your local musicians.
        Of all the posts here you totally made the point in 3 sentences. Many people here, and also Gene seem to be bragging about something like "Rock is dead because you can't be a rockstar anymore". But it is still music just as jazz, classical, hip-hop, blues etc. And it will always be here because people seem to like it. But maybe you can't become a milionare drug addict by playing rock these days
        All musicians know that financial success is a crap shoot right out the gate. It's a risk. At the same time music always has been it's own reward and it was never validated by how many action figures you sold or how many stadiums you've filled. It's a personal and primal connection with an audience whether it be three people or 10,000, that makes a musician put pen to paper in the middle of the night or practice scales til your fingers bleed. Simmons seems to marginalize these musicians and it only goes to prove he's lost touch with what it's like to be a true musician.
        I play because I enjoy it and it's a big part of who I am. I play before an audience to share that joy and conceder it a blessing to be able to do that.
        Signature

        Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
        Getting old ain't for sissy's
        As you are I was, as I am you will be
        You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9500247].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
          Rock is a genre of music that has reached it's end. Everything has it's day and morphs and progresses within its boundaries until it is exhausted of ideas.

          Different styles of music that have been invented have aired and passed . I do not actually see anywhere else to go in popular music. Quality of songwriting has gone downhill. The instrumentation/styles and arrangements used is now just a mixture of what has already gone before. I think it really dried up in the mid 90's.

          I am catching up on what I missed in what has gone before at the moment.
          Signature

          Feel The Power Of The Mark Side

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9500292].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
            Banned
            Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

            Rock is a genre of music that has reached it's end.
            Actually, it's evolved and it will never be exhausted. An no, it's not always just a mixture of styles and arrangements that have come and gone before it. By that, I mean, today we still hear completely new sounds. You have your opinion, but as a 45 year rock fan, I respectfully disagree. Nobody played nu-metal way back in the day and that's true for many of the other genres as well.

            Let Tenacious D tell you the story...


            Cheers

            -don
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9500307].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
              Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

              Actually, it's evolved and it will never be exhausted. An no, not all of it is a mixture of styles and arrangements that have gone before. That's your opinion, but as a 45 year rock fan, I respectfully disagree. Nobody played nu-metal back in the day and that's true for many of the other genres as well.

              Let Tenacious D tell you the story...

              Tenacious D - The Metal (Live) (HD) + Lyrics - YouTube

              Cheers

              -don
              Is that Jack Black. He's the prime candidate for doing the Meatloaf biopic movie when he meets his demise. I think in one movie he made reference to that idea, Meatloaf did a cameo and he called him dad.
              Signature

              Feel The Power Of The Mark Side

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9500339].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
              I do not actually see anywhere else to go in popular music.
              I think that comes with age I still hate rap but I seem to be the only one who feels that way.

              If you think rock and pop is dead and gone - look at this guy!

              I don't like or watch "Rising Star" -but I was surfing and hit that show just when Jesse Kinch started to sing. I was STANDING UP in my living room by the time he finished.

              He's 20 - he's the future and he's damned good.


              Signature
              Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
              ***
              One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
              what it is instead of what you think it should be.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9500351].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

      It's not dead. I just attended the Rockstar Mayhem Fest in Tinley Park headlined by Korn and Avenged Sevenfold and the place was packed with 25,000+ rabid fans.

      Not dead yet...



      I'm going to see Five Finger Death Punch, Volbeat and Hell Yeah here in CR in 2 weeks.


      I won't miss Slipnot and Korn in Moline in November.

      Metal is alive and well in the Midwest...

      Cheers

      -don
      I was just going to mention the price of concert tickets that people pay to see their favs. They're raking in some high bucks for being "dead".

      My niece just went to see NIN and someone else -- the price of the ticket? 60 bucks.

      Internet has brought up some very valid issues that the industry needs to solve.........

      But it will never kill Rock and Roll.
      Signature

      Sal
      When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
      Beyond the Path

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9500465].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
        Banned
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        I was just going to mention the price of concert tickets that people pay to see their favs. They're raking in some high bucks for being "dead".

        My niece just went to see NIN and someone else -- the price of the ticket? 60 bucks.

        Internet has brought up some very valid issues that the industry needs to solve.........

        But it will never kill Rock and Roll.
        Well said! "Rock and Roll ain't noise pollution, Rock and Roll will never die" as AC/DC profoundly put it. Yeah, I wanted to see NIN and Sondgarden at Tinley Park in July but that show was just 4 days after the Mayhem Fest and I just could not make it. My wife and I were bummed!

        Tell me about ticket prices! I am purchasing tickets today for Slipnot and Korn and the tickets in the section I usually sit in (115 or 103) at this cookie cutter facility are $175 each! Geesh! I usually pay maybe $40-$70 for those seats. The floor tickets are running $75 to $400 bucks, and the back of the house nosebleed upper deck seats are $42-$57.

        Tickets | SLIPKNOT : The Prepare for Hell Tour with special guest KORN - Moline IL at Ticketmaster

        $350 for my wife and I to see Slipnot! I think I am going to be sittting a little farther from the stage than usual for this one. I have seen Korn many times, but I have not seen Slipnot.


        Cheers

        -don
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9500522].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          I agree that there are many more forms of rock than their ever were back in the 60s and 70s. But none of it is mainstream. Very few, if any of these bands, are making really big bucks. And many musicians, maybe more than ever because if the ease of entry into the business, are struggling just to make ends meet.

          I realize we're talking about the industry here and not music itself. Music will never die. But if you think you're going to become a rock superstar today, as hard as it always was, it's even harder today. I think that's all Gene is really saying. The hopes and dreams that you COULD have years ago are pretty much dead.

          Can you make a living getting a cult following as a rock group? Sure. Many are doing it and I love a lot of their music. If anything, I think what rock there is today is more interesting than a lot of the older stuff. But how many of these people are ever going to reach a point where they can "comfortably" retire? Not many.

          And almost all of this music has to be heard either online or listening to underground stations. The pop stations today don't play rock and roll.

          And that's another problem. Music itself is so splintered today. Years ago you could hear Led Zep and the Carpenters on the same station. Those days died back in the 80s. Now every station is very specialized and in my area there are ZERO rock stations.

          Why is that?
          Signature
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9500589].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author ThomM
            Steve in my opinion anyone who gets into music to be a mainstream success is setting themselves up for failure from the get go. In fact I'll go further and say anyone who wants to be a musician for the money or fame should stick to a real job.
            That's not what being a musician is about and anybody (including Simmons) who thinks it is, doesn't get it at all.
            Signature

            Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
            Getting old ain't for sissy's
            As you are I was, as I am you will be
            You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9500617].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            And almost all of this music has to be heard either online or listening to underground stations.
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            Years ago you could hear Led Zep and the Carpenters on the same station. Those days died back in the 80s. Now every station is very specialized and in my area there are ZERO rock stations.
            Not true at all! Where you live you may not have rock stations, but where I live we do! And yes you can hear Led Zeppelin and the Carpenters on the same station because we have CLASSIC rock stations.

            Sure I have lived in cities that do not play a lot of rock, but in a city like Janesville, Wi you have great rock stations. Do you hear a lot of rock on the pop stations? No. Do we have rock stations that play classic rock, traditional rock, and metal? Sure we do, we have several of them right here in the CR area.

            How about Pandora and Spotify? Do you realize how many listeners those companies have? Nothing underground about rock, whatsoever.

            Maybe you need to move to a different city if you want to hear rock on the radio. Better yet, purchase SiriusXM and you will find PLENTY of rock stations listen to i every city!

            Good grief, I think you have been living under a rock in a dark cave or something!

            Cheers

            -don
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9500629].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
            Banned
            @ Steve

            Get yourself a Dish Network Satellite system and you find out QUICKLY that rock is not dead. Far from it, actually. Hip-Hop does not dominate, pop does not dominate, country does not dominate --> Rock and Roll is alive and well and is represented on like 2 dozen stations --> and most of those stations are playing ONLY rock and roll.

            Here are few of the stations I listen to to get my fill of rock and roll from classic to heavy metal.

            These I don't listen to all that much:

            E Street Radio
            Elvis Radio
            The Grateful Dead

            Thes I listen to if I want to hear a mix of pop, rock, metal etc:

            50's on 5
            60's on 6
            70's on 7
            80's on 8
            90's on 9
            The Pulse

            These stations play nothing but Rock and Roll:

            Classic Alternative
            The Bridge
            Clasic Rewind
            Deep Tracks
            Classic Vinyl
            Spectrum
            Jam On
            Lithium
            XMU
            Alt Nation
            Octane
            Ozzy's Boneyard
            Hair Nation
            Liquid Nation
            Faction

            These are also all available on SiriusXM satellite radio...in-fact they probably have more rock stations than what is available on DISH..

            In-fact I actually have more rock stations than that on mys sat TV system because I have only listed the SiriusXM rock channels and not the CD rock channels that are in my lineup.

            Cheers

            -don
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9500669].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
              Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

              @ Steve

              Get yourself a Dish Network Satellite system and you find out QUICKLY that rock is not dead. Far from it, actually. Hip-Hop does not dominate, pop does not dominate, country does not dominate --> Rock and Roll is alive and well and is represented on like 2 dozen stations --> and most of those stations are playing ONLY rock and roll.

              Here are few of the stations I listen to to get my fill of rock and roll from classic to heavy metal.

              These I don't listen to all that much:

              E Street Radio
              Elvis Radio
              The Grateful Dead

              Thes I listen to if I want to hear a mix of pop, rock, metal etc:

              50's on 5
              60's on 6
              70's on 7
              80's on 8
              90's on 9
              The Pulse

              These stations play nothing but Rock and Roll:

              Classic Alternative
              The Bridge
              Clasic Rewind
              Deep Tracks
              Classic Vinyl
              Spectrum
              Jam On
              Lithium
              XMU
              Alt Nation
              Octane
              Ozzy's Boneyard
              Hair Nation
              Liquid Nation
              Faction

              These are also all available on SiriusXM satellite radio...in-fact they probably have more rock stations than what is available on DISH..

              In-fact I actually have more rock stations than that because I have only listed the SiriusXM rock channels and not the CD rock channels that are in my lineup.

              Cheers

              -don
              So let me make sure I got this straight.

              In order to hear all the rock music of today that I could possibly want to listen to, I have to sink more money that I don't have into satellite radio whereas back in the 70s all I had to do was buy a $5 transistor radio.

              See, that's the problem and I think that's the point I'm trying to make that everybody is overlooking.

              Rock music isn't mainstream like it used to be. Sure maybe your city or somebody else's city has a rock station that plays the newest rock songs. But that's not the norm. That's the exception. Hell, not every city has a country station though for the life of me I can't understand why since country is so big. But whatever.

              Point is, back in 1968, 1972, 1975, all I had to do was turn on any one of 4 stations in my area (WABC, WPLJ, WNEW or WDHA) and hear all the rockI wanted. Today, my choices are pop, rap, hip hop, classical or Christian Contemporary.

              And I freaking live right next to New York City.

              We have one college station that plays all metal and that's it.

              Again, where are the big "hits" that are winning the Grammy Awards in February that are from rock artists? Where are the top 100 Billboard songs that are in the rock genre?

              Please pull up a recent Billboard chart and show me all the rock songs.

              If you want to hear rock, you have to hunt for it. God bless you that some of you have an easier time of doing this than others. 40 years ago, nobody had a hard time finding rock music on regular commercial radio that you could listen to with a $5 investment.

              You can't do that today and I don't understand how anybody can even deny that's true, even if for you it's true locally. It is not a world wide thing anymore.
              Signature
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9500739].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
                Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                Point is, back in 1968, 1972, 1975, all I had to do was turn on any one of 4 stations in my area (WABC, WPLJ, WNEW or WDHA) and hear all the rockI wanted. Today, my choices are pop, rap, hip hop, classical or Christian Contemporary.
                Point is, you're still trying to listen to music the same way you did forty years ago.

                I can remember when the only opportunity to hear anything non mainstream was to tune in to an offshore pirate station. But nowadays, I hardly ever listen to the radio - at least not for music.

                You've got a PC or laptop, haven't you? You can find almost any rock song you want on YouTube. You could plug a couple of your favorite tunes into Amazon and spend the rest of the day checking out their suggestions for similar or related songs. If you're wedded to radio, there are tons of internet stations just waiting for you to discover. And, as Don mentioned, there are dedicated services, such as Pandora and Spotify.

                It hardly takes that much "hunting" - unless all you're looking for are excuses.

                ..
                Signature


                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9500765].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                So let me make sure I got this straight.

                In order to hear all the rock music of today that I could possibly want to listen to, I have to sink more money that I don't have into satellite radio whereas back in the 70s all I had to do was buy a $5 transistor radio.

                Times have changed and you need to get with the program if you want to keep up with the times. Most people of today don't get their music from AM and FM radio. They get it from ITunes, Pandora, Spotify, SyriusXM, etc. etc. It's called evolution and technical innovation.

                See, that's the problem and I think that's the point I'm trying to make that everybody is overlooking.

                I am not overlooking anything, you appear to be the one overlooking everything except the FM radio stations in your town.

                Rock music isn't mainstream like it used to be. Sure maybe your city or somebody else's city has a rock station that plays the newest rock songs. But that's not the norm.

                I have lived in many cities in several states including California, Florida, Illinois, and Iowa and rarely ever have I had a problem finding a decent rock station on the FM dial. Sure some cities were better than others, but that's life..

                That's the exception. Hell, not every city has a country station though for the life of me I can't understand why since country is so big. But whatever.

                It's not really the exception. As far as country goes, many folks in rural areas still listen to the radio, and radio covers a lot of rural areas. That's not the only reason, but it's part of the reason. Not to mention the fact that a lot of old timers are the peeps listing to the radio. The younger generation has moved on to listening to music on their phone, ipad, computer, satellite, satellite radio etc.

                Not to mention the fact that most cars have CD players these days and/or a port to plug their music devices into. On top of that, many peeps grab satellite radio in the cars...if you have noticed, almost every rental car you grab these days has a SiriiusXM system in it.

                Point is, back in 1968, 1972, 1975, all I had to do was turn on any one of 4 stations in my area (WABC, WPLJ, WNEW or WDHA) and hear all the rockI wanted. Today, my choices are pop, rap, hip hop, classical or Christian Contemporary.

                Sounds like a personal problem. Pipe your handheld into your car system and use Pandora or Spotify, listen to CD's, or order SiriusXM. I got your point the first time, your city does not have decent FM rock stations.

                And I freaking live right next to New York City.

                NYC demographics may be part of your problem, move to the Midwest and you will find rock and roll is alive and well here.

                We have one college station that plays all metal and that's it.

                Better than nothing, eh? Metal is alive and well.

                Again, where are the big "hits" that are winning the Grammy Awards in February that are from rock artists? Where are the top 100 Billboard songs that are in the rock genre?

                Stop worrying about Grammy awards. Do you really think they are going to give a lot of Grammy's to the metal artists even if they deserve it? Stop worrying about the singles charts... You forget that now we have countless genres of music and zillions of artists. I showed you some of the top metal artists that are popping their albums out at the top of the album charts.

                Metal is still selling albums and packing the venues...you need to get out and see it for yourself instead of analyzing the industry with your FM radio from just your location.

                Please pull up a recent Billboard chart and show me all the rock songs.

                I just showed you chart topping albums, not one, two or three hit wonder singles from peeps that will be forgotten 5 -10 years from now. Sure we have some extremely popular pop singers, obviously videos do not hurt some of the more photogenic artists. Go back and read the names of the bands I metioned. Volbeat, Korn, Slipnot, Avenged Sevenfold, Five Finger Deathpunch etc and look at where their albums charted.

                Again, stop gauging the industry from your FM cave by checking the singles charts. Get out and check the concert attendances, look at the rock albums sales by the top acts, check the Pandora and Spotify download numbers. Rock is alive and well.

                If you want to hear rock, you have to hunt for it.

                No you don't. You do, most of us don't. Stop repeating that myth.

                God bless you that some of you have an easier time of doing this than others.

                Get SiriusXM and be done with it. If you don't want to do that then use your phone and Pandora or Spotify and pipe it into your home and car systems.

                40 years ago, nobody had a hard time finding rock music on regular commercial radio that you could listen to with a $5 investment.

                40 years ago we did not have ANYWHERE near the amount of diverse music that is available today. C'mon man, you gotta know that! Do you realize how many more songs and types of music are available today than were not available 40 years ago? Geesh....Trance, Rave, Techno, Club, House, Dubstep, Hip-Hop, Rap and on and on and on on and on and on.

                You can't do that today and I don't understand how anybody can even deny that's true, even if for you it's true locally. It is not a world wide thing anymore.

                Obviously you just don't get today's music industry. We are well beyond FM radio, and the sooner you understand that the better off you will be. In-fact I have been listening to my rock and roll on satellite since 1996 --> and you must realize that the companies would not pay for all of those channels in the lineup if people were not listing to the music.
                You don't have to pay a fortune to get great rock and roll. Either use Pandora or Spotify or purchase yourself some cheap gear and use satellite radio.

                Our Most Popular Packages - SiriusXM Radio

                Monthly packages

                80 channels for $10 bucks
                140 channels for $15 bucks
                150 channels plus internmet listening $19 bucks

                Rock and roll is not dead and I can tell you this first hand because I have been attending rock shows on a regular basis for a very long time.

                Large companies do not put 20+ rock stations in their lineup if people are not listening to those stations.

                One more fact of note is Aerosmith made more money from the Guitar Hero game than they made from any of their albums. Obviously you remember the HIGHLY popular Rock Band and Guitar Hero games.... Those games were ROCK games and for a while not so long ago they were extremely popular.

                I spent quite a bit of dough myself on that game, In the end I had a 800 song library, 3 drum kits, 5 guitars, and a stage kit with real strobe, real fog, and a mini lightshow spotlight can.

                The wife and I along with my niece and nephews rocked the night away many a night, that's for sure.

                Cheers

                -don
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9500835].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                So let me make sure I got this straight.

                In order to hear all the rock music of today that I could possibly want to listen to, I have to sink more money that I don't have into satellite radio whereas back in the 70s all I had to do was buy a $5 transistor radio.

                See, that's the problem and I think that's the point I'm trying to make that everybody is overlooking.

                Rock music isn't mainstream like it used to be. Sure maybe your city or somebody else's city has a rock station that plays the newest rock songs. But that's not the norm. That's the exception. Hell, not every city has a country station though for the life of me I can't understand why since country is so big. But whatever.

                Point is, back in 1968, 1972, 1975, all I had to do was turn on any one of 4 stations in my area (WABC, WPLJ, WNEW or WDHA) and hear all the rockI wanted. Today, my choices are pop, rap, hip hop, classical or Christian Contemporary.

                And I freaking live right next to New York City.

                We have one college station that plays all metal and that's it.

                Again, where are the big "hits" that are winning the Grammy Awards in February that are from rock artists? Where are the top 100 Billboard songs that are in the rock genre?

                Please pull up a recent Billboard chart and show me all the rock songs.

                If you want to hear rock, you have to hunt for it. God bless you that some of you have an easier time of doing this than others. 40 years ago, nobody had a hard time finding rock music on regular commercial radio that you could listen to with a $5 investment.

                You can't do that today and I don't understand how anybody can even deny that's true, even if for you it's true locally. It is not a world wide thing anymore.
                I totally agree, sure their is lots of nostalga for it, radio stations playing it, paid options, but the fan base is probably older. their will be a market for it until such a time as it is forgotten or we are too old to care, kids listening to whats around currently in either chart stuff or contemporary are unlikely to want classic rock in the future. When they are older they will be harkening back to the music of the 2014 era. Of course some latch onto it and get all the old stuff but the bands that originated it are not producing new stuff and aging, dying.

                What I was saying earlier about the different types of music since the late sixties, we have had, Rock & Roll, psychedelic, hard, heavy and soft rock, re-invented Ska, punk, re-invented reggae, disco, dance, synth, synth dance, rap etc. All have been in vogue and popular for a while but have come and gone as Mainstream. At the time, all these genres were considered new!

                All their influences and sounds are incorporated into the chart stuff of today but while previously we had peroids of NEW sounding ways of conveying songs that has come to an end.

                Show us something new and does not resemble stuff that has gone before. I would be impressed

                It's ok to be a rock fan, I am. But we must recognize that we are going after a sound that we are familiar with or find nostalgia in. It's there and still some new bands doing it, but it's not big anymore, its minority and so are all the genres I mentioned.
                Signature

                Feel The Power Of The Mark Side

                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9501016].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                  Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                  I totally agree, sure their is lots of nostalga for it, radio stations playing it, paid options, but the fan base is probably older. their will be a market for it until such a time as it is forgotten or we are too old to care, kids listening to whats around currently in either chart stuff or contemporary are unlikely to want classic rock in the future. When they are older they will be harkening back to the music of the 2014 era. Of course some latch onto it and get all the old stuff but the bands that originated it are not producing new stuff and aging, dying.

                  What I was saying earlier about the different types of music since the late sixties, we have had, Rock & Roll, psychedelic, hard, heavy and soft rock, re-invented Ska, punk, re-invented reggae, disco, dance, synth, synth dance, rap etc. All have been in vogue and popular for a while but have come and gone as Mainstream. At the time, all these genres were considered new!

                  All their influences and sounds are incorporated into the chart stuff of today but while previously we had peroids of NEW sounding ways of conveying songs that has come to an end.

                  Show us something new and does not resemble stuff that has gone before. I would be impressed

                  It's ok to be a rock fan, I am. But we must recognize that we are going after a sound that we are familiar with or find nostalgia in. It's there and still some new bands doing it, but it's not big anymore, its minority and so are all the genres I mentioned.
                  Well, this whole argument goes into a deeper subject than I want to get into here because it'll make my head explode and I have too much work to do.

                  David McCullum said it best in an episode of "The Outer Limits" called "The 6th Finger".

                  "Man does not create. He procreates."

                  Music is always going to resemble something that has come before it because there are only so many "gimmicks" that you can come up with for 12 notes.

                  But that doesn't mean I can't enjoy "new" songs that might sound like something else before it. The song itself is still new. The words are different. The melody is different. At least they have to be different enough that the artist isn't sued for plagiarism.

                  I'm not looking for "unique" never been heard before. The chances of that are slim to none. After 50 years of listening to rock, pop and just about everything else that has been on this planet, including Broadway, Opera, Symphonies and even Rap (the little bit of it that I don't hate) I realize that there is just nothing new under the sun.

                  But there is new and there is new. And I'm more than content to settle for new.

                  In fact, if a group came around that sounded just like the Beatles but just with different songs, I'd be fine with that.

                  Obviously, however, whatever "new" there is, isn't going to be found on my FM dial. So okay, I'll move into the 21st century and try to find new music. I'm getting a little tired of listening to Christian Contemporary (they play the same songs all the time) and the classical station, especially when they seem to do more fund raising than playing music.
                  Signature
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9501030].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author steveMastr
                    Wow! Cool to see so much discussion about this.

                    Having known Gene personally for over 5 years, I have a feeling I know what he's doing here. Because he's proved so many people wrong and climbed mountain after mountain in his life, I think he feels like telling people that "Rock Is Dead" will somehow indirectly inspire rock musicians to PROVE HIM WRONG.

                    It sounds weird, but Gene is a weird guy. And please don't bash guys. The article isn't about how good KISS is or how talented musicians are these days. It's about how there is less funding from the traditional channels. Gene has helped to create one of the highest grossing live bands and basically created the first BRAND out of a band; really paving the way for bands to follow.

                    So I could understand if KISS isn't your taste in music, but Gene didn't say "I hate Rock music". His favourite band is The Bealtes. Ok. No more KISSing up.......get it?

                    As someone who's been through the ringer, I do agree with a lot of what Gene says, BUT I think that the solution lies in the ARTIST becoming their own MARKETER and RECORD COMPANY.

                    To be honest, it's always been up to the artist. They pave their own way and it's on them to build and maintain a lasting career.

                    Sometimes I think we buy into the pipedream that someone else will do all the work for us. Don't drink the Kool-aid.

                    So I think that the new quote should read more like a Queen song "Record Companies To Rock Bands: 'We Will, We Will DROP You'.

                    Pick up a guitar, write great songs, and people WILL listen. You don't need someone in a suit to get your music heard.


                    Steve (aka VØID)
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9501043].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                  I totally agree, sure their is lots of nostalga for it, radio stations playing it, paid options, but the fan base is probably older.
                  Obviously you have not been attending the rock shows that I have been attending lately!

                  Godsmack, Shinedown, Megadeath, Disturbed, Korn, Mushroom Head, Emmure, Halestorm, Flyleaf, Avenged Sevenfold, Volbeat, Five Finger Death Punch, Static-X, Sevendust, etc. etc. etc. These concerts were filled with young people! I would say a good sized majority of the fans attending those shows were 16-25...hardly old-timers.

                  The young people that rock today have moved on to hip-hop, rap, metal and combinations thereof. In-fact when my wife and I started attending rock shows on a regular basis again, which was about 8 years ago, she was afraid we were too old for the shows.

                  These kids are not going going to see the rock of yesteryear, they are attending the shows of their favorite artists of today and to hear the the new music that they have put out along with there favorites.

                  At the Mayhem Fest show I bet their were at least 80 vendors selling merch and other stuff...A LOT of money is changing hands at these shows and it's primarily the young kids that are spending it.

                  I used to photograph a pretty entertaining cover band that would to play my area a few times a year and they would always draw crowds of 1500-3000 which is pretty good for a cover band, and even though the music they played was a mix of old stuff and semi-new stuff, the crowds would be packed 80-85% teenagers and young people.

                  Here is the base player from that band, she was always one of my favorite musicians to shoot.



                  Cheers

                  -don
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9501082].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                    Well, I checked out Live365. It seems I get 5 free days where all I actually get is some samples of each station (not whole songs) and then I guess at the end of the 5 day period I decide if I want to pay to listen to the radio.

                    I guess I'm just not that advanced yet. I can't pay money to listen to the radio.

                    I guess I've really become my father.

                    Oh the irony.
                    Signature
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9501092].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                      I guess I'm just not that advanced yet. I can't pay money to listen to the radio.
                      Grab a free account from Spotify and explore around. You should be able to find enough free music there to last you a lifetime. Not only that but you you can play it when you want to play it, in the order you want to play it.

                      https://www.spotify.com/us/

                      Cheers

                      -don
                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9501121].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
                      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                      Well, I checked out Live365. It seems I get 5 free days where all I actually get is some samples of each station (not whole songs) and then I guess at the end of the 5 day period I decide if I want to pay to listen to the radio.

                      I guess I'm just not that advanced yet. I can't pay money to listen to the radio.

                      I guess I've really become my father.

                      Oh the irony.
                      Steve, you get 5 days of their VIP service. After 5 days, you'll have to listen to ads, much like regular radio.

                      I'm not sure where you're getting the "samples of some stations" thing as I'm listening to a live365 station right now...playing entire songs.

                      There's also iHeartRadio | Real & Custom Radio Stations - Listen Free Online which I forgot to mention earlier.
                      Signature

                      Raising a child is akin to knowing you're getting fired in 18 years and having to train your replacement without actively sabotaging them.

                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9501131].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                      Well, I checked out Live365. It seems I get 5 free days where all I actually get is some samples of each station (not whole songs) and then I guess at the end of the 5 day period I decide if I want to pay to listen to the radio.

                      I guess I'm just not that advanced yet. I can't pay money to listen to the radio.

                      I guess I've really become my father.

                      Oh the irony.
                      Greetings Steven,

                      I'm a bit confused by your post. I have been what's referred to by live365 as a "Pro" broadcaster for over 7 years and no one has ever had to pay to listen to my show.

                      Granted, there are different levels of stations and you can even become what's considered a VIP listener (which ain't cheap) for around $35 a month I believe, but I could be wrong about that. That might be for 3 months. I think you need to delve into this a little further.

                      The only commercials that run during my broadcasts are only those that I choose run on my own, at the times I specify. Live365 does not insert any of their own commercials into my stream. I think that's only for standard broadcaster who want to not pay much to broadcast. I pay $246 a month to air my show, but it sure beats paying a shrink. Oh, wait - I get that through the VA for free. lol

                      My station broadcasts at 128 kbs and sounds great, if your computer is well equipped for sound, as I'm sure that yours is. I do not work from their servers for my music. I stream from my desktop, totally live.

                      I have worked in radio since 1974, off and on and have found this thread interesting, but I ain't sayin' a word about music. I'm a die-hard 'classic rock' guy and if music doesn't have at least a semblance of melody, it doesn't get on my playlist. I have never even heard of most of the bands mentioned and I only have a single KISS song (Beth) in my 3500 song library because I have one listener that keeps bugging me to play them. I don't even like that song, but you feel bad telling a listener you ain't gonna play a request. He knows that cut is as far as I'm going with that band and accepts it with a smile. Of course, people who are long time listeners know what I play and the are not expecting any "White Snake." lol

                      One of the reasons I have continued to do my show is because it is the only time I listen to music. I never play it while I'm working at the computer, the radio in my car has never been on once and when I do my show I have the luxury of playing only what I want to hear at that exact moment that I want to hear it. It really doesn't get much better than that.

                      There's a ton of stations on live365 in every genre imaginable. I would think that you should be able to find one or two that you would enjoy, that are both free and commercial-free to listen to.

                      Cheers. - Frank

                      P.S. This is not 'self-promotion' as my show is not yet back on the air as I'm still on 'late summer hiatus.' I take a couple of months off every summer to charge my batteries.
                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9501161].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author fin
                      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                      Well, I checked out Live365. It seems I get 5 free days where all I actually get is some samples of each station (not whole songs) and then I guess at the end of the 5 day period I decide if I want to pay to listen to the radio.
                      Sounds a little like your sales page
                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9501646].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author The Niche Man
                    Ha, Ha. True Rock n Roll will never die, it's just evolved into hip hop. If you listen close you can still here Chuck Berry, Little Richard, and Bo Diddly the true originators of Rock n' Roll.
                    Signature
                    Download "Free 80 Page E-Book"
                    "201 Ways To Live Better On Less Money".
                    "Because The Easiest Way To Make Money is ... ... By Saving Some First!"
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9545989].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            I agree that there are many more forms of rock than their ever were back in the 60s and 70s. But none of it is mainstream. Very few, if any of these bands, are making really big bucks. And many musicians, maybe more than ever because if the ease of entry into the business, are struggling just to make ends meet.
            None of it's main stream? Maybe you need to change the dial.

            There are a lot of "rock" bands making a killing and a lot more are making money because of the ease of entry.

            -g
            Signature
            Screw You, NameCheap!
            $1 Off NameSilo Domain Coupons:
            SAVEABUCKDOMAINS & DOLLARDOMAINSAVINGS
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9506224].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    When I was a teenager I bought a ticket to see the movie Trick or Treat with Gene Simmons, that was the first time I had heard Fastway. The music was awesome, the movie, meh... Anyways, I went out & bought at least 2 Fastway albums including the movie soubdtrack. I still listen to them every so often on MP3s. The Fastway song After Midnight rocked.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9500258].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    Check out the metal map...obviously metal will never die in Scandinavia!

    Popular music styles are often closely connected to the social situations where they first began. Rock 'n' roll grew out of the heady culture of American cities following the Great Migration and World War II, as formerly rural blacks brought rapidly evolving jazz and rhythm and blues into cities. Decades later, the disinvested inner cities of 1980s America helped foster the rap and hip hop that we listen to today.

    Heavy metal is a strange case, then. The music sprouted originally from working-class kids in economically ravaged, deindustrialized places like Birmingham, England. Even today, it seems to be most popular among disadvantaged, alienated, working-class kids.
    At the country-level, the number of heavy metal bands per capita is positively associated with economic output per capita (.71); level of creativity (.71) and entrepreneurship (.66); share of adults that hold college degrees (.68); as well as overall levels of human development (.79), well-being, and satisfaction with life (.60).

    The bottom line? Though metal may be the music of choice for some alienated working-class males, it enjoys its greatest popularity in the most advanced, most tolerant, and knowledge-based places in the world. Strange as it may seem, heavy metal springs not from the poisoned slag of alienation and despair but the loamy soil of post-industrial prosperity.

    http://www.citylab.com/politics/2014...ations/371473/


    Cheers

    -don
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9500329].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

      Check out the metal map...obviously metal will never die in Scandinavia!

      Cheers

      -don
      A couple of my favorite quotes by Ginger Baker.
      People say Cream gave birth to heavy metal. If that's so, we should have had an abortion.
      Yes I'm not a metal fan
      A really good band with a bad drummer is not a good band. A really bad band with a good drummer sounds better.



      As far as rock being dead or played out, well that's just funny.
      Here's a couple newer bands.

      Signature

      Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
      Getting old ain't for sissy's
      As you are I was, as I am you will be
      You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9500411].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        Sometimes I think music becomes exaggerated. Rock and metal were "music" but popularity seemed to commercialize those styles until they were "noise".

        But then you have Jesse Kinch or groups like Moon Taxi (I like them, too) that bring the MUSIC back into the beat. It's not death of anything but adaptation to a more refined or evolved sound.
        Signature
        Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
        ***
        One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
        what it is instead of what you think it should be.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9500474].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
        Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

        I'm not a metal fan
        Neither am I, Thom. I have to say, you have excellent taste in music and I don't say that just because you don't like metal rock much.

        I love that quote by Mr Baker. By the way, I started watching that documentary about him you posted and got 17 minutes into it when I had to do something. I'm going to go back and finish watching it. What a character! He was in this area a couple months ago and I missed his show at Yoshi's which is close by. I hope he comes back.
        Signature
        Over 50 Dating
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9500895].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
          Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

          Neither am I, Thom. I have to say, you have excellent taste in music and I don't say that just because you don't like metal rock much.

          I love that quote by Mr Baker. By the way, I started watching that documentary about him you posted and got 17 minutes into it when I had to do something. I'm going to go back and finish watching it. What a character! He was in this area a couple months ago and I missed his show at Yoshi's which is close by. I hope he comes back.
          Thanks Tim. I think I have a pretty broad taste in music on one hand, but narrow in that it's always focused on the percussion.
          The end of that doc. hand me in tears.
          Here's a little of what you missed at Yoshi's. That tune was originally on his Air Force Album.
          Here's Baker in one of his earlier Jazz groups from 95. Excellent album by the way and one of my favorite Jazz albums I have.
          Signature

          Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
          Getting old ain't for sissy's
          As you are I was, as I am you will be
          You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9500926].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          So are you saying, for the most part, traditional commercial radio is dead? Because that's what it sounds like. Every alternative you've listed, which does sound like gives you more choices than you had back in the 60s and 70s, is not traditional commercial radio. It's either Internet or, if listening in your car, radio that you have to pay for.

          If that's where the industry has gone, why? Why can't somebody just jump in his car with the radio that came installed with it and be able to turn on just about any kind of station they want? Is it because there's too MUCH music and because of the diversification "free" radio can't afford to reach such a specialized audience unless it's for a genre that is, for the most part, world wide popular, like pop?

          It's the only thing I can think of. Because we've had more commercial music stations close shop and turn to talk radio over the years than we've had new stations pop up.
          Signature
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9500928].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            So are you saying, for the most part, traditional commercial radio is dead? Because that's what it sounds like. Every alternative you've listed, which does sound like gives you more choices than you had back in the 60s and 70s, is not traditional commercial radio. It's either Internet or, if listening in your car, radio that you have to pay for.

            If that's where the industry has gone, why? Why can't somebody just jump in his car with the radio that came installed with it and be able to turn on just about any kind of station they want? Is it because there's too MUCH music and because of the diversification "free" radio can't afford to reach such a specialized audience unless it's for a genre that is, for the most part, world wide popular, like pop?

            It's the only thing I can think of. Because we've had more commercial music stations close shop and turn to talk radio over the years than we've had new stations pop up.
            Yeah, you pretty much get the drift. I am not quite sure of the exact economics of the radio station(s) they relate to the FM program directors, but for sure pop and hip-hop has squeezed some rock and even country from the FM dials. I don't think this is a booming period for most FM stations, no matter what music they play. In-fact quite a few FM stations have resorted to syndicated political talk a few hours a day, just like AM has done for years and years.

            Here and and in dozens of other markets one of the local rock stations taps into one of the Lou Brutus syndicated shows, hardDrive or hardDriveXL, and he delivers rock and rock talk for either 2 or 5 hours a night.

            LouBrutus.com :: Bio

            Lou is a big-shot at SiriusXM and he is the person that first delivered Slipnot, Disturbed and Godsmack to the US airwaves.

            lou.brutus - Host - SiriusXM Radio

            Lou Brutus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

            But you got it right, you can get specialized paid radio (or free versions of Pandora and Spotify) and it's awesome, much better than what we had 40 years ago.

            I pay for Spotify to go commercial free and offline. The Spotify Pro account I have allows me to create all kinds of playlists and Spotify "radio stations" where I choose the types of music to be played and it rolls it for me.. In-fact I don't even need to be connected to the internet to play the music on my offline playlists.

            So I can put thousands of songs on my computer, laptop, phone, my wife's tablet, and my wife's phone and none of those devices need to be connected to anything to play the music. No 3G, no 4G, no WiFi, no satellite service, nothing at all. So right now I have a couple thousand songs on my main ofline playlist which is well over 120 hours of music, and I can play it from any device without having to be connected to anything. You can connect your device to an input jack on your car stereo and your home system and you are good to go.

            You can get the same songs on the free version, but you get commercials, a slightly slower bitrate, and no offline play-ability.

            Anyway, I think you get the idea.

            Cheers

            -don
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9500989].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author discrat
          Stevie,

          Rock isnt dead its all cyclical
          Signature

          Nothing to see here including a Sig so just move on :)

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9500935].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    @ Tom

    A few of my early favorite heavy metal and hard rock favorites were Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, Steppenwolf, Iron Butterfly and I suppose you could throw Jimi in as well. I think both Iron Butterfly and Cream debuted in '66, Steppenwolf a few years before that in 1963.

    A few other Rock Roll acts I loved along the way were Pink Floyd, Metallica, and Van Halen with David Lee Roth. Yeah, I also listened to AC/DC, Dio and tons of others like Styx, Boston, Kansas, Michael Jackson and I even did disco with the Beegees.

    A few of my favorites these days that I did not mention above are the Stone Temple Pilots, System of a Down, Limp Bizkit, Chevelle, Nonpoint, Tantric, Disturbed, Godsmack, Mudvayne and of course I still dig the grungers Nine Inch Nails, Nirvana, Soundgarden and Pearl Jam. Too many to favorites to name, but those are a few of them.

    I actually have hundreds of artists and composers on my playlists from Johnny Cash to 2Cellos to Vilvadi to Type O' Negative.

    If I am looking for something lighter with a little feeling I will put on something like Sully Erna' s solo stuff. Sully's band Godsmack is a very popular alternative metal band, but his solo stuff could be considered acoustic rock, symphonic rock, alternative rock or even tribal rock.





    I don't care for many of the screamo and death metal bands etc. as I do like to hear great music and not some lead singer screaming over the top of a bunch of screaming guitars that don't make any sense. The great alternative metal and nu-metal acts of today usually play great music that is not dominated by screams and noise.

    Cheers

    -don
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9500489].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

      @ Tom

      A few of my early favorite heavy metal and hard rock favorites were Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, Steppenwolf, and Iron Butterfly. I think both Iron Butterfly and Cream debuted in '66, Steppenwolf a few years before that in 1963.

      A few other Rock Roll acts I loved along the way were Pink Floyd, Metallica, and Van Halen with David Lee Roth. Yeah, I also listened to AC/DC, Dio and tons of others like Styx, Boston, Kansas, Michael Jackson and I even did disco with Beegees.

      A few of my favorites these days that I did not mention above are the Stone Temple Pilots, System of a Down, Limp Bizkit, Chevelle, Nonpoint, Tantric, Disturbed, Godsmack, Mudvayne and of course I still dig the grungers Nine Inch Nails, Nirvana, Soundgarden and Pearl Jam. Too many to name, but those are a few of them.

      I actually have hundreds of artists and composers on my playlists from Johnny Cash to 2Cellos to Vilvadi to Type O' Negative.

      If I am looking for something light with a little feeling I will put on something like Sully Erna' s solo stuff.

      Sully Erna 7 Years - YouTube

      Sully Erna - My Light - YouTube

      Sully Erna - Sinner's Prayer - YouTube

      Avalon - Sully Erna - YouTube

      Cheers

      -don
      I think it also has to do with perception Don.
      For example I'm a Zeppelin fan, but never thought of them as heavy metal, but simply Rock and Roll.
      I don't really like putting labels on music like metal or rock as I think it causes people to not listen to groups they may like because they don't like that "type" of music.
      I learned to play Jazz and Swing before I learned rock and that still has an impact on how I approach a song to play. That's why I like the Baker quote on metal so much
      When listening to any song I don't decide if I like it or not based on the type of song, but rather if the musicians are good. Even then I'll narrow it down to the drummer and the rhythm section.
      It's all good though in my mind. Really music is music no matter what other label is put on it.
      Of course I'm just a drummer, so what do I know. Oh wait Science Shows How Drummers' Brains Are Actually Different From Everybody Elses' - Mic
      Signature

      Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
      Getting old ain't for sissy's
      As you are I was, as I am you will be
      You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9500584].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
        Banned
        Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

        I think it also has to do with perception Don.
        For example I'm a Zeppelin fan, but never thought of them as heavy metal, but simply Rock and Roll.
        I pretty much agree, but most folks considered Led Zepplin hard rock and that's why I mentioned hard rock and metal. And FWIW, not all metal is "heavy" metal...in fact that's why I prefer stuff classified as nu-metal and alternative metal.

        Below is a terrible image (you can barely read it) but it lists someone's version of the evolution of "metal". You will see their is almost 2 dozen "types" of metal listed.



        Yeah, I love the drums and to be honest I had professional musicians in my family for several decades. They have all "retired" now, but they used to jam country and rock in Iowa and IIllinois. Mostly local cover stuff, but they could most certainly draw a couple thousand where the venue allowed. Unfortunately the only instrument that I learned to play was the trumpet!

        Here is my favorite drum stuff that I have seen live, recently.. I was lucky enough to see this double drummer action 2 or 3 times live at different Godsmack shows. Unfortunately for me, I did not get to see Genesis when Phil was rocking the double drums back in the day.

        This is Godsmack's Sulla Erna and drummer Shannon Larkin and it's a very big hit at the shows.


        Cheers

        -don
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9500623].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
          Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

          I pretty much agree, but most folks considered Led Zepplin hard rock and that's why I mentioned hard rock and metal. And FWIW, not all metal is "heavy" metal...in fact that's why I prefer stuff classified as nu-metal and alternative metal.

          Below is a terrible image (you can barely read it) but it lists someone's version of the evolution of "metal". You will see their is almost 2 dozen "types" of metal listed.



          Yeah, I love the drums and to be honest I had professional musicians in my family for several decades. They have all "retired" now, but they used to jam country and rock in Iowa and IIllinois. Mostly local cover stuff, but they could most certainly draw a couple thousand where the venue allowed. Unfortunately the only instrument that I learned to play was the trumpet!

          Here is my favorite drum stuff that I have seen live, recently.. I was luck enough to see this double drummer action 2 or 3 times live at different Godsmack shows. Unfortunately for me, I did not get to see Genesis when Phil was rocking the double drums back in the day.

          This is Godsmack's Sulla Erna and drummer Shannon Larkin and it's a very big hit at the shows.

          Godsmack Drum Duel HD - YouTube

          Cheers

          -don
          Don all I can say about that video is WOW F'n awesome.
          Here's one that's a lot different from that but still pretty incredible. Mickey Hart explaining why he plays drums and talking about music pretty much sums it up for me. The first instrument I tried was guitar when I was 5. That lasted about a week. It then took me 5 years to convince my parents to take drum lessons. The reason why I couldn't play guitar but could play drums was pretty simple. I wanted to play the guitar, I wanted to learn the drums. Having a natural ability and as Mickey said it being wired into my DNA didn't hurt either I have yet to find a percussion instrument that I haven't been able to play, though I haven't tried them all yet.
          My current line up of drums I have are a 5 piece kit with 8 cymbals (and a bell), a Bodhran, Cajon, Djembi, and a Cuban Quinto and Tumba or as they are often called Congas.
          Signature

          Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
          Getting old ain't for sissy's
          As you are I was, as I am you will be
          You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9500687].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
            Banned
            Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

            Don all I can say about that video is WOW F'n awesome
            Yeah, no doubt about that, glad you enjoyed it! Godsmack is a must see when they come anywhere near me. They don't mess around with a bunch of lights and video screens like a lot of the big bands do these days. They just bring the Fing music each and every time they perform. I swear Sully and his guys bring just as much energy to the small venues as they do the large.

            Thanks for posting the video you did, quite interesting and enjoyable. In-fact some of my favorite music is tribal and Indian style percussion, and Taiko.. Just the drums possibly mixed with some shakers and/or maracas and a little chanting can do it for me.

            This may not be as impressive as the Godsmack's double drum solo but it's a pretty good mix of non-traditional percussion into a metal song on Korn's unplugged album. This Japanese Taiko is worth the checkout...

            Ko

            I was lucky enough to see this setup done live on a huge outdoor stage with some really giant equipment and it was pretty awesome, and I must say most of those hits were pretty darn hard! In-fact I was a bit disappointed when those extra percussion guys were not with Korn on the following tour.

            Cheers

            -don
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9500952].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author frankhill
              Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

              Yeah, no doubt about that, glad you enjoyed it! Godsmack is a must see when they come anywhere near me. They don't mess around with a bunch of lights and video screens like a lot of the big bands do these days. They just bring the Fing music each and every time they perform. I swear Sully and his guys bring just as much energy to the small venues as they do the large.

              Thanks for posting the video you did, quite interesting and enjoyable. In-fact some of my favorite music is tribal and Indian style percussion, and Taiko.. Just the drums possibly mixed with some shakers and/or maracas and a little chanting can do it for me.

              This may not be as impressive as the Godsmack's double drum solo but it's a pretty good mix of non-traditional percussion into a metal song on Korn's unplugged album. This Japanese Taiko is worth the checkout...

              Ko

              I was lucky enough to see this setup done live on a huge outdoor stage with some really giant equipment and it was pretty awesome, and I must say most of those hits were pretty darn hard! In-fact I was a bit disappointed when those extra percussion guys were not with Korn on the following tour.

              Cheers

              -don

              The ONLY thing worthwhile in that video was the drums & drummers.

              Case Closed.

              Frank
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9508214].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                Banned
                Originally Posted by frankhill View Post

                The ONLY thing worthwhile in that video was the drums & drummers.

                Case Closed.

                Frank
                Hahaha....that's why the metal band Korn has placed 12 albums in the top 10 of the Billboard 200 over the past 20 years without the use of Japanese drummers.

                Maybe you need to hear some more Godsmack!



                Cheers

                -don
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9508244].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

      @ Tom

      A few of my early favorite heavy metal and hard rock favorites were Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, Steppenwolf, Iron Butterfly and I suppose you could throw Jimi in as well. I think both Iron Butterfly and Cream debuted in '66, Steppenwolf a few years before that in 1963.

      A few other Rock Roll acts I loved along the way were Pink Floyd, Metallica, and Van Halen with David Lee Roth. Yeah, I also listened to AC/DC, Dio and tons of others like Styx, Boston, Kansas, Michael Jackson and I even did disco with Beegees.

      A few of my favorites these days that I did not mention above are the Stone Temple Pilots, System of a Down, Limp Bizkit, Chevelle, Nonpoint, Tantric, Disturbed, Godsmack, Mudvayne and of course I still dig the grungers Nine Inch Nails, Nirvana, Soundgarden and Pearl Jam. Too many to favorites to name, but those are a few of them.

      I actually have hundreds of artists and composers on my playlists from Johnny Cash to 2Cellos to Vilvadi to Type O' Negative.

      If I am looking for something lighter with a little feeling I will put on something like Sully Erna' s solo stuff. Sully's band Godsmack is a very popular alternative metal band, but his solo stuff could be considered acoustic rock, symphonic rock, alternative rock or even tribal rock.


      I don't care for many of the screamo and death metal bands etc. as I do like to hear great music and not some lead singer screaming over the top of a bunch of screaming guitars that don't make any sense. The great alternative metal and nu-metal acts of today usually play great music that is not dominated by screams and noise.

      Cheers

      -don
      Holy cow - same favs. You and I could get along well as neighbors. We wouldn't be complaining and calling cops over each other's stereos being a tad to loud a tad too late.
      Signature

      Sal
      When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
      Beyond the Path

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9500647].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
        Banned
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        Holy cow - same favs. You and I could get along well as neighbors. We wouldn't be complaining and calling cops over each other's stereos being a tad to loud a tad too late.
        I hear you! Glad to chat with a real "rocker" on here. One band I forgot to mention that deserves a mention is the Chili Peppers, gotta give them their props.

        I just ordered those Slipnot and Korn tickets and I had to grab one section farther from the stage then I usually do, but I got two tickets for $150. They know people are going to pay for Slipnot since they have not toured in a while, no doubt about that!

        My wife is a huge fan so missing that show is not an option!

        Cheers

        -don
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9501010].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    I can remember days thinking they have killed music with rap and hip hop. It makes me sick to my stomach when I think this.

    ... and that is precisely why I listen exclusively to 'oldies' stations on my car radio. We have a few on FM - maybe AM too but I wouldn't know. I can hear 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s - all 'oldies' now!

    #2 Steve don't you have any college radio stations in your area? They always seem to have the 'hippest' music of the day - maybe even 'underground' - (I hesitate to use the word 'alternative' because that has become just as plastic and shallow as mainstream and "pop").
    Signature

    Patricia Brucoli
    Plug-In Profit Site Helpdesk

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9500636].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    This one is for Tom (and all others that enjoy it)...more Japanese Taiko stuff.


    Cheers

    -don
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9501013].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

      This one is for Tom (and all others that enjoy it)...more Japanese Taiko stuff.

      Kodo - O-Daiko; - HD (japanese drummers - Taiko - tambours géants Japon) - YouTube

      Cheers

      -don
      Right after listening to that Korn video I was off to Ytube for more Taiko.
      By the way my practice sticks are Chad Smith signature by Vater, now that you mention the Chile Peppers.
      I totally agree, sure their is lots of nostalga for it, radio stations playing it, paid options, but the fan base is probably older. their will be a market for it until such a time as it is forgotten or we are too old to care, kids listening to whats around currently in either chart stuff or contemporary are unlikely to want classic rock in the future.
      Don't think I can agree with that. One night at open mic a couple years ago a band came in made up of kids between the ages of 11 and 15. Everything they played was from the 60's and 70's. My kids grew up listening to my music and even going to concerts with me and their mother. In fact my oldest step-daughter and youngest have seen the Band and Little Feat at least three times. You stop by their houses and you could hear anything from the 50's to the present playing. Same goes for other people and their kids, at least those I know.
      On the other hand I still listen to Tommy Dorsey, Glenn Miller, Duke Ellington, Buddy Rich, Gene Krupa, etc. because that's what my parents listen to when I was growing up.
      Signature

      Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
      Getting old ain't for sissy's
      As you are I was, as I am you will be
      You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9501065].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

        Right after listening to that Korn video I was off to Ytube for more Taiko.
        By the way my practice sticks are Chad Smith signature by Vater, now that you mention the Chile Peppers.
        Don't think I can agree with that. One night at open mic a couple years ago a band came in made up of kids between the ages of 11 and 15. Everything they played was from the 60's and 70's. My kids grew up listening to my music and even going to concerts with me and their mother. In fact my oldest step-daughter and youngest have seen the Band and Little Feat at least three times. You stop by their houses and you could hear anything from the 50's to the present playing. Same goes for other people and their kids, at least those I know.
        On the other hand I still listen to Tommy Dorsey, Glenn Miller, Duke Ellington, Buddy Rich, Gene Krupa, etc. because that's what my parents listen to when I was growing up.
        Old music, in my opinion, isn't even an issue. There is always going to be an audience for nostalgia. Otherwise, TCM would not exist.

        My beef is with getting to hear the new stuff. It's not as readily available. You do have to make more of an effort to hear it than when we were growing up. And I guess that's okay once you accept it. Dan just gave me a link to 527 radio stations. More music than I can probably listen to the rest of my life. But I wouldn't have known about it had he not brought it up and I wouldn't have even known where to look for stuff like this.

        Yes, that's the curse of being stuck in 1968.

        But there was a time when you didn't have to think. You simply turned on the radio and the current "hits" were all there.

        Things have certainly changed.
        Signature
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9501079].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

          Old music, in my opinion, isn't even an issue. There is always going to be an audience for nostalgia. Otherwise, TCM would not exist.

          My beef is with getting to hear the new stuff. It's not as readily available. You do have to make more of an effort to hear it than when we were growing up. And I guess that's okay once you accept it. Dan just gave me a link to 527 radio stations. More music than I can probably listen to the rest of my life. But I wouldn't have known about it had he not brought it up and I wouldn't have even known where to look for stuff like this.

          Yes, that's the curse of being stuck in 1968.

          But there was a time when you didn't have to think. You simply turned on the radio and the current "hits" were all there.

          Things have certainly changed.
          I get what you're saying there Steve. Except for Monday night horseshoes, I don't listen to the radio and haven't in around 20 years. The closest I come to it now is Pandora online. I've always enjoyed exploring older music more then listening to what's current. Even in the old days I would always look into the influences of the bands I liked and sometimes listen to the influences more then the band.
          Signature

          Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
          Getting old ain't for sissy's
          As you are I was, as I am you will be
          You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9501130].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
        Banned
        Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

        Right after listening to that Korn video I was off to Ytube for more Taiko. By the way my practice sticks are Chad Smith signature by Vater, now that you mention the Chile Peppers.
        Hahaha...I knew you would have to check into Taiko further! Good for you.

        I love that double drum solo on Three Sides Live, and if you do as well, you should enjoy Phil Collins and Chester Thompson going at it here. Genesis had it going on for a minute or two.

        I am not certain this one tops Sully and Shannon's, but it's pretty friggen good...


        When I started taking lessons to play the trumpet when I was a kid I actually signed up for drum lessons, but the instructor told me I would have to take one year of piano first. I said screw it I am not playing the piano so I went for the trumpet because my dad loved trumpet stuff.. Really dumb move on my part!

        Cheers

        -don
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9501119].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
          Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

          Hahaha...I knew you would have to check into it further! Good for you.

          I love that double drum solo on Three Sides Live, and if you do as well, you should really enjoy Phil Collins and Chester Thompson going at it here. Genesis had it going on for a minute or two.

          This drum duet is pretty friggen good...

          Drum Duet - Phil Collins and Chester Thompson drums AWESOME! - YouTube

          When I started taking lessons to play the trumpet when I was a kid I actually signed up for drum lessons, but the instructor told me I would have to take one year of piano first. I said screw it I am not playing the piano so I'll try the trumpet. Really dumb move on my part!

          Cheers

          -don
          I've listened to Taiko drums before, it's been a couple years though. Drums and drumming from different cultures has always been a passion of mine.
          I don't get that drum instructor. Maybe it had to do with learning time, reading sheet music, and sight reading. But that's all stuff you learn when learning drums anyways. Many people conceder the piano to be a percussion instrument because the strings are hit with hammers. It's actually a hybrid instrument or if you want to be really anal about it a keyed zither.
          I've tried learning other instruments, struggled and failed. Like I said I'm hard wired for drums In fact where most people have a bucket list of things to do before they die, mine is percussion instruments I want to own and play before I die.
          Signature

          Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
          Getting old ain't for sissy's
          As you are I was, as I am you will be
          You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9501163].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
    Steve, here's 527 rock stations you can listen to:

    Listen to Free Rock Music Online - Live365 Internet Radio

    Here's more:
    http://loudwire.com/rock-radio-fm-stations-free-online/

    And more:
    http://www.rockradio.com/

    Still more:
    http://www.pandora.com/music/rock
    Signature

    Raising a child is akin to knowing you're getting fired in 18 years and having to train your replacement without actively sabotaging them.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9501062].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author lcombs
    What a joke for Gene Simmons to make that statement!

    He conceived KISS for the sole purpose of commercialism.
    No more, no less.
    He's the ultimate marketer and KISS was one of the first nails in the coffin
    of rock-n-roll.
    Signature
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Fresh...55326481208883
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9501153].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
    I read the article earlier today. There was a lot of discussion about it over at another forum. Rock is not dead. The problem is the way the music industry has changed. That's what was being said more than anything.

    Most people don't want to pay for albums anymore. They want to only buy their favorite songs. That's why album sales have dropped significantly over the past decade.

    The main way that most artists are making money now is by touring and selling their own merchandise. And, of course, touring boosts record sales.

    Artists that aren't doing well enough financially to afford to tour are pretty much screwed unless they're fortnuate enough to get discovered and signed. Even then they MUST continue to produce great songs or they'll disappear quickly.

    As was mentioned already, the unknown songwriters are the ones getting hit the hardest. Even if you're able to get your song(s) in front of the right people you can still easily get ripped off.

    That's why companies like BMI Music, TuneCore, CD Baby, MondoTunes and others have begun to appear. They help artists by getting their music distributed everywhere they possibly can and some keep track of all payments that most artists were getting screwed out of in the past.

    Rock, Country, Jazz, Gospel, etc, etc, etc. It doesn't matter what type of music it is, the entire industry has changed. It's both good and bad, depending on how you look at it.

    One thing that's definitely good is that it's easier now than at anytime in history to get your music heard. As a musician and songwriter, that makes me very happy. :-)

    I was just trying to decide which direction I wanted to go with my music earlier today. I've got some more research to do, but it's definitely getting released soon.

    Regarding YouTube, someone mentioned that artists should promote their music there, but from what I understand, YouTube recently removed all videos from independent artists. That totally sucks! You can still post them at Vimeo, at least for now, but they won't get nearly as much exposure. It's really too bad.
    Signature

    My New "Share All" Blog Is Coming Soon! Online & Offline Marketing, More!

    http://www.UnCENTSored.com

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9501184].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      After getting a good night's sleep and having some time to think about this, I've realized a few things. Not all very comforting.

      First of all, I've gotten old whether I want to admit it or not. I used to think I would never change. I'd always be that 18 year old "musician" and music lover. I'd always buy hundreds of 45s and albums every year. I'd always be on top of all the latest music.

      Then the 90s hit and I noticed that I started hating most of what was being produced. There was no question that the music was different from the music I grew up with. But was it really worse? Since quality is all subjective (yes, it really is) the only thing I could come up with was this.

      I had become my parents who hated rock back in the 60s because they grew up listening to opera and, at worst, Glen Miller.

      Had I grown up with rap, hip hop, etc. I probably would have loved that and hated everything that came after it. Who knows.

      But then something really weird happened. As I started getting more and more into music these last few years, and because of that "had" to keep up with things, I started to notice that there was a lot of good stuff out there both post 1980s and today that was really good.

      Why hadn't I heard of it? Why isn't the "radio" playing this stuff? Why did I have to go to Wiki and YouTube to find out what all these new genres were and all the groups in them?

      Do you have any idea how many electronic music sub genres there are today?

      I can't believe I actually like something like Dubstep. I think it's really interesting how they create all those wobble bass sounds and drops. Having to keep up with the industry because of my business has "forced" me to stop being my parents.

      But this is what frustrates me. All of this music, had it come out in the 70s, would have all been covered by one of 4 stations in my area without any doubt.

      WPLJ
      WNEW
      WDHA
      WXLO

      Between those 4 stations I would have absolutely heard everything that is available online today.

      Now? Forget it. You might as well throw your standard radio away unless you pay for something like Serious or whatever the hell it's called.

      And that's where I'm still stuck with my parent's mentality. The thought of having to pay to listen to music, something you could always do for free for as far back as I could remember, sticks in my craw. What's next? I'll have to pay to breathe the air?

      I understand that there are free radio stations online and I don't mind if I have to listen with commercials. I mean commercial radio back in the 60s and 70s played commercials. LOTS of them. That's something I don't miss. Or WABC playing a whole freaking hour of news between 6 and 7 PM. God that was torture.

      And to that end, I guess I've gotten spoiled.

      We now have music stations on the TV. Pick your genre and listen all day commercial free. Problem with those stations is that they have limited playlists. I know this because for a long while I used to listen to the Show Tunes station. After listening for months and months, you started to see that they had a limited list. Granted, it was a pretty big playlist, but it was still limited. If I hadn't heard Ezio Pinza doing "Some Enchanted Evening" from South Pacific in a month's time, I wasn't going to hear it ever.

      Back in the golden age, if a song was new, you heard it. Some not as often as others, but you still heard it. It's how I built up such a huge record collection over the years. I didn't just blindly go into a record store and pick out a bunch of albums because the covers were pretty. I heard stuff that was never popular. But there was a station playing it.

      Short list of stuff I've bought over the years that never made a dent in the Billboard charts that was still played on the radio

      Renaissance
      The Move
      The Strawbs
      Triumvirat
      Chesapeake Jukebox Band
      Tangerine Dream
      Fireballet
      Sparks
      Turner And Kirwan From Wexford (Go pick up Absolutely and Completely)

      And the list goes on and on.

      Today, these same groups that were played on at least some commercial radio station would never be found unless you got some kind of subscription radio service or hunted real hard for them.

      That's what Gene is saying. It's tougher for groups today, not that it was ever easy.

      News flash. The Beatles would not be the big sensation today that they were in 1964 because the world has changed. They were in the right place at the right time. Their early music was simple and not that great. Today, that same music would hardly be noticed.

      The world has changed. A lot. I'm still stuck in 1972 (Arguably the pinnacle of prog rock) and don't want to leave because I don't want to grow old. I don't want to become my parents but in so doing that's what I've become. I'm clinging onto a past the way they clung onto Joan Sutherland and Glen Miller.

      There really is a crap ton of great music out there today, not just in rock. But you're not going to hear it just by turning on the radio in your car unless that radio is plugged into a subscription service.

      Maybe if I had money to burn I'd get one of those services.

      Because I'm sure as hell tired of listening to the few choices I have now.
      Signature
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9501618].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        After getting a good night's sleep and having some time to think about this, I've realized a few things. Not all very comforting.

        First of all, I've gotten old whether I want to admit it or not. I used to think I would never change. I'd always be that 18 year old "musician" and music lover. I'd always buy hundreds of 45s and albums every year. I'd always be on top of all the latest music.

        Then the 90s hit and I noticed that I started hating most of what was being produced. There was no question that the music was different from the music I grew up with. But was it really worse? Since quality is all subjective (yes, it really is) the only thing I could come up with was this.

        I had become my parents who hated rock back in the 60s because they grew up listening to opera and, at worst, Glen Miller.

        Had I grown up with rap, hip hop, etc. I probably would have loved that and hated everything that came after it. Who knows.

        But then something really weird happened. As I started getting more and more into music these last few years, and because of that "had" to keep up with things, I started to notice that there was a lot of good stuff out there both post 1980s and today that was really good.

        Why hadn't I heard of it? Why isn't the "radio" playing this stuff? Why did I have to go to Wiki and YouTube to find out what all these new genres were and all the groups in them?

        Do you have any idea how many electronic music sub genres there are today?

        I can't believe I actually like something like Dubstep. I think it's really interesting how they create all those wobble bass sounds and drops. Having to keep up with the industry because of my business has "forced" me to stop being my parents.

        But this is what frustrates me. All of this music, had it come out in the 70s, would have all been covered by one of 4 stations in my area without any doubt.

        WPLJ
        WNEW
        WDHA
        WXLO

        Between those 4 stations I would have absolutely heard everything that is available online today.

        Now? Forget it. You might as well throw your standard radio away unless you pay for something like Serious or whatever the hell it's called.

        And that's where I'm still stuck with my parent's mentality. The thought of having to pay to listen to music, something you could always do for free for as far back as I could remember, sticks in my craw. What's next? I'll have to pay to breathe the air?

        I understand that there are free radio stations online and I don't mind if I have to listen with commercials. I mean commercial radio back in the 60s and 70s played commercials. LOTS of them. That's something I don't miss. Or WABC playing a whole freaking hour of news between 6 and 7 PM. God that was torture.

        And to that end, I guess I've gotten spoiled.

        We now have music stations on the TV. Pick your genre and listen all day commercial free. Problem with those stations is that they have limited playlists. I know this because for a long while I used to listen to the Show Tunes station. After listening for months and months, you started to see that they had a limited list. Granted, it was a pretty big playlist, but it was still limited. If I hadn't heard Ezio Pinza doing "Some Enchanted Evening" from South Pacific in a month's time, I wasn't going to hear it ever.

        Back in the golden age, if a song was new, you heard it. Some not as often as others, but you still heard it. It's how I built up such a huge record collection over the years. I didn't just blindly go into a record store and pick out a bunch of albums because the covers were pretty. I heard stuff that was never popular. But there was a station playing it.

        Short list of stuff I've bought over the years that never made a dent in the Billboard charts that was still played on the radio

        Renaissance
        The Move
        The Strawbs
        Triumvirat
        Chesapeake Jukebox Band
        Tangerine Dream
        Fireballet
        Sparks
        Turner And Kirwan From Wexford (Go pick up Absolutely and Completely)

        And the list goes on and on.

        Today, these same groups that were played on at least some commercial radio station would never be found unless you got some kind of subscription radio service or hunted real hard for them.

        That's what Gene is saying. It's tougher for groups today, not that it was ever easy.

        News flash. The Beatles would not be the big sensation today that they were in 1964 because the world has changed. They were in the right place at the right time. Their early music was simple and not that great. Today, that same music would hardly be noticed.

        The world has changed. A lot. I'm still stuck in 1972 (Arguably the pinnacle of prog rock) and don't want to leave because I don't want to grow old. I don't want to become my parents but in so doing that's what I've become. I'm clinging onto a past the way they clung onto Joan Sutherland and Glen Miller.

        There really is a crap ton of great music out there today, not just in rock. But you're not going to hear it just by turning on the radio in your car unless that radio is plugged into a subscription service.

        Maybe if I had money to burn I'd get one of those services.

        Because I'm sure as hell tired of listening to the few choices I have now.
        Steve, you are so right on a lot of counts.

        There is a lot more stuff being produced, a lot more people are doing it, and able to make a good, finished product using their computer, samples and a keyboard. The trouble is getting it aired, getting it out their. The record companies now market products, not people, pretty boy bands etc and that's what gets played on the radio, being pushed. Now, if you want to grab the attention of the the record companies you might just get lucky airing your stuff in a you-tube vid and it going viral and get offered a contract.

        If you looked at the history of synth bands in the UK vid I posted you will see a clip of the BBC Radio 1 DJ, John Peel. He played whatever he liked and you could send your demo's to him and if he liked them he would play them, a lot of bands got signed up that way. Now it's all automated, approved play lists, they have no control.

        The other revelation that I am an old fart in my tastes was really brought home to me in the last year. Both Bowie and Paul Mcartney both came out with new albums that were the best things they had done in years.

        Paul's called "New" was definitely up there with his best solo work ever and some of it would not be out of place within the Beatles. It is full of tuneful, inventive pop songs that are catchy, memorable and beautifully produced and arranged.

        But aside from a very brief appearance in the album charts and a single which was great but got no-where he had a brief surge of sales and disappeared. And, of course, who was buying it, the old die hard Macca and Beatles fans of course. It was well received by the critics too.

        It was then I realized that people had moved on, they were not really into that style and type of music anymore, it had had it's day. Despite the songs being excellent. Now whether that's down to the control of what the record companies and commercial radio stations push or if peoples tastes had changed I'm not sure, but the evidence is there and probably a lot to do with what we are allowed to be exposed too.

        I think Paul's Album is on You-Tube. Link:
        (you may have to go to the You-tube page to listen to the other 11 as its now on a playlist)

        Aside from the first track which is just good, we have 11 other tracks that are excellent. If this had come out in the seventies it would have been triple platinum. but not now.
        Signature

        Feel The Power Of The Mark Side

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9502570].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post


        WPLJ
        WNEW
        WDHA
        WXLO
        Wow, thanks for the memories Steve

        Do you remember back in the early 80's when WAPP out of Lake Success premiered with a commercial free summer? That was a great summer and the station came out like gang busters.

        But once they started with commercials, it quickly faded. The commercial free summer was pretty innovative for the times.
        Signature

        Are you protecting your on line business? If you have a website, blog, ecommerce store you NEED to back it up regularly. Your webhost will only protect you so much. Check out Quirkel. Protect yourself.

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9504987].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

          Wow, thanks for the memories Steve

          Do you remember back in the early 80's when WAPP out of Lake Success premiered with a commercial free summer? That was a great summer and the station came out like gang busters.

          But once they started with commercials, it quickly faded. The commercial free summer was pretty innovative for the times.
          Nope, don't remember WAPP at all. Must have not been around long. Either that or, if it was a small station, the reception might have been bad around my area. As it is. WDHA only really came in good when I was working out in Morristown at AT&T IS right after the divestiture.
          Signature
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9505676].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            Nope, don't remember WAPP at all. Must have not been around long. Either that or, if it was a small station, the reception might have been bad around my area.
            The WAPP call sign was used on 103.5 FM from '82-'86.


            For a short period of time WAPP was the #1 rated station in NYC, Bon Jovi actually wrote jingles for "The Apple" back in day.

            Cheers

            -don
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9505869].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
              Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

              The WAPP call sign was used on 103.5 FM from '82-'86.

              WAPP FM 103.5 NYC Radio Commercial - YouTube

              For a short period of time WAPP was the #1 rated station in NYC, Bon Jovi actually wrote jingles for "The Apple" back in day.

              Cheers

              -don
              I wonder if that was during their commercial free summer. I remember it well because 1982 is the year I went in to the Navy (October) so it was a great summer of hanging out and listening to WAPP commercial free.

              Some info:

              This station started out back in 1940 and in the 1950's was the original location of WPAT.
              By 1960, calls were changed to WTFM and moved its city of license from Paterson NJ to Babylon NY.
              In December 1961, the city of license was offcially changed to Lake Success NY.
              WTFM featured an easy listening & AC format for most of its history.
              Then, in June 1982, the station flipped to AOR as WAPP "New York's Apple".
              The station was initially commercial-free during that summer.
              During it's brief stint as rock, Jon Bon Jovi sent a demo tape to the station for it's ameteur band contest - and won - and the rest, as they say, is history.
              In October 1984, WAPP switched to CHR briefly, before going to a CHR/Rock hybrid in July 1985 as "Apple 103".
              On August 15, 1986, rock was dropped in favor of a Rhythmic CHR format as WQHT "Hot 103".
              Then, on September 22, 1988 at 5:30pm, a frequency swap took place between WYNY 97.1 (see above) and 103.5.
              103.5 became country as WYNY "Country 103.5" and 97.1 became WQHT "Hot 97."
              Signature

              Are you protecting your on line business? If you have a website, blog, ecommerce store you NEED to back it up regularly. Your webhost will only protect you so much. Check out Quirkel. Protect yourself.

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9506863].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                Banned
                Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

                I wonder if that was during their commercial free summer. I remember it well because 1982 is the year I went in to the Navy (October) so it was a great summer of hanging out and listening to WAPP commercial free.
                Yeah, it was. When they switched to commercials they lost listeners to WPLJ and WNEW-FM and lost the number 1 rating. FWIW, I joined the Navy in 1983 and was an HF Radio Frequency Tech ET (Link) when I hit the fleet. Back in those days my department actually fired up an FM rock station in the middle of the Indian Ocean using cassette tapes and the 1000 watt Mars station we had aboard. The DJ's were of course the ET's aboard and obviously it became the most popular station with the fleet in the middle of the Indian Ocean.

                Cheers

                -don
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9507665].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author frankhill
                  Rock maybe is not dead...been on life support since Grunge.

                  frankhill
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9507680].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by frankhill View Post

                    Rock maybe is not dead...been on life support since Grunge.

                    frankhill
                    Life support? That's a laugh...I guess you may have missed the sales stats above.



                    http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...ml#post9505156

                    Cheers

                    -don
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9507687].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author frankhill
                      Give the stats 20 years earlier....


                      frankhill
                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9507691].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                        Banned
                        Originally Posted by frankhill View Post

                        Give the stats 20 years earlier....


                        frankhill
                        That fact remains, rock is king. Like I said earlier, if rock is dead, most of the other genres are already mummified.

                        Cheers

                        -don
                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9507770].message }}
                        • Profile picture of the author frankhill
                          Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

                          That fact remains, rock is king. Like I said earlier, if rock is dead, most of the other genres are already mummified.

                          Cheers

                          -don

                          I have to say that today's "artists" are lazy and unimaginative in all genres.

                          frankhill
                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9507821].message }}
                          • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                            Banned
                            Originally Posted by frankhill View Post

                            I have to say that today's "artists" are lazy and unimaginative in all genres.

                            frankhill
                            You may be in denial.

                            Cheers

                            -don
                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9507846].message }}
                            • Profile picture of the author frankhill
                              Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

                              You must be in denial.

                              Cheers

                              -don

                              I remember the the day my son explained to me the concept of "Sampling"


                              You make me LAUGH!!
                              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9507866].message }}
                              • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                                Banned
                                Originally Posted by frankhill View Post

                                I remember the the day my son explained to me the concept of "Sampling"


                                You make me LAUGH!!
                                And you like to ignore the facts. We know, you must be the true god of music. Have fun with that...


                                Cheers

                                -don
                                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9507876].message }}
                                • Profile picture of the author frankhill
                                  What facts?

                                  Copycats and lazy "artists".


                                  frankhill
                                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9507898].message }}
                                  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                                    Banned
                                    Originally Posted by frankhill View Post

                                    What facts?

                                    Copycats and lazy "artists".


                                    frankhill
                                    You need to stop pretending that you are the only one that can appreciate good music. The fact is rock is the top selling genre in the US and tons of great acts are putting out excellent music.

                                    Go ahead and tell me who Korn has copied and please do link the band and tracks before you call them lazy.




                                    Cheers

                                    -don
                                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9507966].message }}
                                    • Profile picture of the author frankhill
                                      Sorry...just threw up in my mouth.

                                      Can you tell me the 80% of what he was "singing" that I didn't catch?

                                      Frank
                                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9508097].message }}
                                      • Profile picture of the author frankhill
                                        Holy Sh**

                                        Korn..example of modern Rock & Roll

                                        GOD help us.


                                        Frank
                                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9508109].message }}
                                        • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                                          Banned
                                          Originally Posted by frankhill View Post

                                          Holy Sh**

                                          Korn..example of modern Rock & Roll

                                          GOD help us.

                                          Frank
                                          God help you....


                                          Cheers

                                          -don
                                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9508126].message }}
                                          • Profile picture of the author frankhill
                                            Put a pig in a dress...still a PIG!

                                            Frank
                                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9508145].message }}
                                            • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                                              Banned
                                              Originally Posted by frankhill View Post

                                              Put a pig in a dress...still a PIG!

                                              Frank
                                              I got your Korn speed right here....


                                              Korn has won 2 Grammys, 2 MTV music awards and they have produced 12 Billboard 200 top 10 albums. It's just too bad you can't appreciate the rock and roll that is being made today. So sad...

                                              Cheers

                                              -don
                                              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9508169].message }}
                                          • Profile picture of the author frankhill
                                            Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

                                            That?? is one of your Best examples of modern rock??

                                            Ladies and gentlemen of the jury I rest my case,

                                            Rock is at best on life support.


                                            Frank
                                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9508165].message }}
                                            • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                                              Banned
                                              Originally Posted by frankhill View Post

                                              That?? is one of your Best examples of modern rock??

                                              Ladies and gentlemen of the jury I rest my case,

                                              Rock is at best on life support.

                                              Frank
                                              Rock is king of music sales in the US and I think you may be on life support. Rock has many sub-genres and while I enjoy almost all genres of music in general, I happen to prefer alternative metal, nu metal, and the harder varieties of rock which is packing shows from coast to coast. If you can't understand that fact we can't help you.

                                              Here, have another taste of the good stuff.



                                              I get it...you must prefer the softer stuff like the music the Chili Peppers play..


                                              Cheers

                                              -don
                                              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9508191].message }}
                                      • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                                        Banned
                                        Originally Posted by frankhill View Post

                                        Sorry...just threw up in my mouth.

                                        Can you tell me the 80% of what he was "singing" that I didn't catch?

                                        Frank
                                        Of course you did....my suggestion is get a decent little sound system for your computer and/or stop enjoying your music through your phone speaker. It's called fidelity, get some.

                                        Cheers

                                        -don
                                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9508113].message }}
                                        • Profile picture of the author frankhill
                                          What?

                                          Really, I have no idea what you said in your last post.

                                          Frank
                                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9508142].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author hardraysnight
    the first signs of the death of rock came in the late 1960s when yuppies, or hippies waiting to become yuppies tried to politicise rock
    Signature
    These guys helped me with the feedback for my site
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9502706].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    Rock is far from dead and for Gene to say so must be a friggen joke. Give us a break! Take a look at USA album sales in 2013. If rock is dead most of the other genres are mummified.

    Rock is Not Dead: Rock n’ Roll Tops 2013 Album Sales

    With nearly 35% of the album sales market in 2013, rock n’ roll is most certainly alive and kicking.

    http://www.craveonline.com/music/art...13-album-sales


    And going back to 2008...



    Music album sales in the United States by genre 2012 | Statistic

    Maybe Gene should stick to talking about arena football these days! Try again, Gene.

    Cheers

    -don
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9505156].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    Hey Gene.... Rock is dead, eh?



    Cheers

    -don
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9505207].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    I think Gene meant to say country is still dead in the UK! Rock tops the 2013 UK album sales charts as well.



    http://www.completemusicupdate.com/a...are-of-albums/

    If you exclude pop, rock sells basically as many albums as all of the other genres combined!

    Yeah, pop takes the UK singles sales...but rock is a formidable second, outpacing dance, hip-hop, R&B and all the rest. Check out the UK country sales...you can pound the nails in that coffin. Good gracious.

    It's pretty obvious that rock fans are not too cheap to purchase entire albums, eh? Or maybe the fact is some of the great rockers put out great albums and not just a few commercially viable singles.

    What up, Gene?

    Cheers

    -don
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9505252].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    Now let's have a closer look at the 2013 US sales breakdown according to Billboard and Nielsen. Seriously folks, Gene was talking out his a$$ on this subject.



    Rock Music Was The Dominant Genre Of 2013

    Music fans purchased more Rock Music than any other genre in 2013.

    Data from Nielsen SoundScan reveals that 34.8% of all album music sales where for Rock albums, 17.4% of sales were for Alternative Rock and 10.2% were for Metal / Hard Rock.

    The three rock music categories combined generated 62.4% of all album sales in the USA in 2013.

    Rock Music Was The Dominant Genre Of 2013 Noise11.com music news Music News | News | Noise11.com
    Notice in 2013 rock topped both the album and singles sales charts in the US. As everyone can easily see rock and roll is clearly alive and well in the US! 62% of all the albums sold in the US in 2013 were rock albums!

    Cheers

    -don
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9505293].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
      Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

      Now let's have a closer look at the 2013 US sales breakdown according to Billboard and Nielsen. Seriously folks, Gene was talking out his a$$ on this subject.





      Notice in 2013 rock topped both the album and singles sales charts in the US. As everyone can easily see rock and roll is clearly alive and well in the US! 62% of all the albums sold in the US in 2013 were rock albums!

      Cheers

      -don

      You're missing the point, Don. Yes, rock is topping the share of sales in 2013. Part of Gene's (and others) points are that album sales overall have declined substantially over the last decade. Why? Because the fans have killed the industry as it was by stealing the music.

      Here's a link to an article regarding the current historically low album sales.

      http://money.cnn.com/2010/02/02/news...usic_industry/

      Gene was making the point that it would be much harder to achieve what KISS and other long time popular bands have done now because of the inaction taken when Napster and others first infringed on their rights as artists.

      Artists should have banded together and taken action against the people that were downloading their music illegally. They owned the artistic rights to those songs and it was being stolen from them! Now it would be almost impossible to turn back. Does anyone remember the term "piracy"? It made no difference to fans that all of the sudden wanted their favorite music for free.

      Anyway, I just wanted to clarify the point being made. Rock isn't "dead" and likely never will be in our lifetime. But it's nearly dead for new musicians and album sales. It would be interesting to see how the industry looks in 30-40 years once all of the current popular acts are gone.
      Signature

      My New "Share All" Blog Is Coming Soon! Online & Offline Marketing, More!

      http://www.UnCENTSored.com

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9542561].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    Originally Posted by frankhill View Post

    What?

    Really, I have no idea what you said in your last post.

    Frank
    Of course you didn't! I think Mr. frankhill might be...


    Cheers

    -don
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9508204].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

    Must read article if you care.

    Gene Simmons: 'Rock Is Finally Dead' - Esquire

    And he is 100% dead right as to why.

    I disagree - I think times have changed and many iconic rockers are still making a killing because they have adapted to the internet and the way things are done now:
    For example Queen - massive comeback featuring Adam Lambert - they use a very active YouTube channel as well as other social media to their advantage.

    Another example - Peter Gabriel: still selling out concerts world-wide - uses a very successful website and YouTube channel as well as other social media to his advantage...

    Shall I continue?

    Your negativity and refusal to embrace change is what is hampering you, Steven. Period.

    Rock is not dead. Not anytime soon.

    I'll write that one again.

    ROCK IS NOT DEAD.
    Signature
    ---------------
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9508212].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    Of course you (fh) probably don't have a clue who Sully Erna is, the Godsmack front man and primary songwriter, but he is one of the most talented guys in the rock business.


    -don
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9508259].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author WFDUDE
    HMM, interesting. The interviewer is a thief. The interviewee is a thief. They are bitching about file sharing? I'ts only a big deal when it affects you directly. Here's a thought. Instead of crying at the top of your ivory tower, take this into consideration. The record company's have been raping artists for the last century. Ask any artist that signed a record deal from the 1930's to the 1970's if they got a fair shake. You won't get an answer because their all dead from drug and alcohol abuse. Instead of paying them money, they gave them all the drugs and alcohol they could or couldn't handle to keep them on the road. I'm speaking mainly of black artists from the Jazz, R&B and early Rock genre's. When they got off the road, they were broke. They were then told, Hey, you owe us money for the tour support we gave you, you need to make another record. It all starts again, the vicious circle of the blood sucking handler from the record company. The game has changed but the end result is exactly the same. It used to be that you toured to promote the record. Now that file sharing has become the norm, you have to share music to fill the seats at the live shows. U2 recognizes this. they said **** it, let's give everyone the record for free. they had the biggest grossing tour ever that year and made over 700 Million dollars. Learn to change with the times or you could just cry about how great things were and die on the side of the road with the rest of the Dinosaurs.
    Signature

    Don't Dream It, Be It.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9542480].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author garyv
      I don't agree that it was easier back in the 70s to get your music out there. Back then the music that made it onto the radio went through only a handful of people. If one of those people didn't hear your music, and/or like it, you didn't have a chance. And most of the time your music never even made it to one of these people.

      Now - anyone that is good enough has a real chance. All you have to do is post your video to youtube and share it. If your music is that good, people will continue to pass it on.

      Personally I'm glad that the old ways of music business are dying out. There's definitely much more diversity now. - Not on the radio, no. They're still doing business the old way, and thus the same music is played over and over. The real reason people don't listen to the radio, is because they aren't really playing what most people want to hear. They are only playing what they can peddle. And most of that sucks, so people are moving online and elsewhere, where people have figured out how to monetize the current technology trends.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9542606].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
        Originally Posted by garyv View Post

        I don't agree that it was easier back in the 70s to get your music out there. Back then the music that made it onto the radio went through only a handful of people. If one of those people didn't hear your music, and/or like it, you didn't have a chance. And most of the time your music never even made it to one of these people.
        I never said that it was easier to get your music out there in the 70s. The point was that it was potentially more profitable to do so, mostly because of the decline of album sales and album sales is what's dying, not any particular genre.

        Originally Posted by garyv View Post

        Now - anyone that is good enough has a real chance. All you have to do is post your video to youtube and share it. If your music is that good, people will continue to pass it on.
        YouTube stopped allowing that a few months ago. You can still use Vimeo, at least for now, but it's not nearly as much traffic.

        You can still use one of the services I mentioned in a different post get your music out there. That's made it much easier to get exposure than ever. However, from a profit standpoint it's still not very good.

        The odds of new artists being picked up from these services are still slim. The odds of getting your music picked up is wide open, however getting compensated fairly isn't easy. There's a thing called "mechanical copyright" that says that the songwriter is required (by law) to receive 9% of any earnings made from their work. I'm paraphrasing here. I have an excellent book, actually two books, on the subject put away.

        It basically goes like this. The famous recording artist might listen to your music and decide to record it. They may then offer you 4.5 to 5%. You'd then remind them that the mechanical copyright law states that you're entitled to 9%. They'd likely come back with a reply acknowledging that, but that they only have so many slots available on their new record and that they'd really like to have your song(s), but that there are a LOT of other good songs out there, too. Kind of a "take it or leave it" deal. It's scummy, but I suppose once you get your music out there it could open the door for more opportunities in the future and those would likely pay accordingly.

        Originally Posted by garyv View Post

        Personally I'm glad that the old ways of music business are dying out. There's definitely much more diversity now. - Not on the radio, no. They're still doing business the old way, and thus the same music is played over and over. The real reason people don't listen to the radio, is because they aren't really playing what most people want to hear. They are only playing what they can peddle. And most of that sucks, so people are moving online and elsewhere, where people have figured out how to monetize the current technology trends.
        I'm not as much of a radio listener as I used to be either.
        Signature

        My New "Share All" Blog Is Coming Soon! Online & Offline Marketing, More!

        http://www.UnCENTSored.com

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9542720].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Midnight Oil
          This is interesting (re: CD sales in general):

          85 Percent of Music Sales in Japan are CDs - Forbes
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9542788].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
          Banned
          Many will tell you it's not that difficult to get your music "out there" these days, and if your music becomes popular you can still be compensated "fairly". Competition is rough as more and more artists are making more music than ever before. I call that the "extra-alive" effect...

          Quite the treasure hunt so far, but not nearly over yet. Now I was faced with 13 different websites I could contact as an unsigned artist to get my music on Spotify. I went through the whole list and did some research. Most of them charged around $10 per song you wanted to get up there, but the last one on the list could do everything for free, leaving you 85% of the profits (after Spotify takes a cut) and giving you the option to at any time upgrade a song to 100% profit for around $10. This definitely seemed like the best deal to me and I had nothing to lose.

          <snip>

          After uploading, it took some time until the music went live on Spotify, but after a month or so I was there. The path wasn't exactly simple, but it wasn't hard either. Success depends a lot on how great I was willing to think. Just that innocent curiosity, asking "What if I could have my music on Spotify?" and not having any expectations, was all it took. Sometimes when we grow up we learn about the restrictions of the world and we lose that inherent innocent knowing that anything we desire is possible to achieve.
          Patrik Siljestam August 13, 2012 at 11:40 AM
          Yeah, I noticed that when I uploaded my second song it took less time before it went live on Spotify! You guys are doing a great job empowering unsigned musicians like myself

          Find me on Spotify, iTunes, Amazon & RouteNote! - Sound from the Heart
          Spotify pays about 10% of its revenue to songwriters (split between mechanical and performance royalties) and about 60% to the artists. Services like Spotify don’t have to negotiate with songwriters, because the government sets the rates – through the consent decree for PROs and the a compulsory license for mechanical licenses.

          Copyrights, Licensing, And Royalties: A Fact Sheet | American Songwriter
          Some fast figures

          Paying subscribers: Over 10 million

          Active users: Over 40 million*

          Ratio of paying subscribers to active free users: Over 20%

          Revenue paid to rights holders since launch: $1bn

          Number of songs: Over 20 million**

          Number of songs added per day: Over 20,000

          Number of playlists: Over 1.5 billion created so far

          Available in 57 markets – Andorra, Argentina, Austria, Australia, Belgium, Bolivia, Brazil, Bulgaria, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Guatemala, Honduras, Hong Kong, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malaysia, Malta, Mexico, Monaco, New Zealand, Netherlands, Nicaragua, Norway, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Singapore, Slovakia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Taiwan, Turkey, UK, Uruguay and USA.
          *Users active within the previous 30 days

          **Number of tracks licenced globally. Catalogue size varies in each country

          https://press.spotify.com/us/information/
          Cheers

          -don
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9542798].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author garyv
          Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post


          YouTube stopped allowing that a few months ago. You can still use Vimeo, at least for now, but it's not nearly as much traffic.
          Where are you getting that info from? I know plenty of musicians still using youtube to share their music without a problem.


          By the way - there's still just as much money (if not more) being generated by music as there ever has been. Only now the consumer has more of a choice. We're not being force-fed a list of songs preordained as the "top 100" by the very companies selling the songs. And the money can be made in concerts, itune sales, youtube views, and other creative ways.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9542895].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            Originally Posted by garyv View Post

            Where are you getting that info from? I know plenty of musicians still using youtube to share their music without a problem.


            By the way - there's still just as much money (if not more) being generated by music as there ever has been. Only now the consumer has more of a choice. We're not being force-fed a list of songs preordained as the "top 100" by the very companies selling the songs. And the money can be made in concerts, itune sales, youtube views, and other creative ways.
            You're absolutely right. There's a hell of a lot more opportunity as far as avenues than there ever was. You also have to be a hell of a lot better than you used to be as well.

            Acts that got signed 40 years ago, who maybe just barely cracked the top 40, would never make it today. There is just too much competition and too much diversity. Their 50,000 units sold wouldn't be worth the time of the record companies and their relatively mediocre talent wouldn't raise an eyebrow today.

            So everything evens out in the long run. More opportunity but just as hard, if not harder to make it unless you are just unbelievably talented.

            Same song, different era.
            Signature
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9542913].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
            Banned
            Originally Posted by garyv View Post

            Where are you getting that info from? I know plenty of musicians still using youtube to share their music without a problem.
            See below...

            Some indie labels will not agree with the contract terms as Google rolls out their new audio only subscription service. Those labels/artists are supposedly being threatened with their free YT channels being blocked if they do not agree to the terms.

            YouTube is preparing to radically change the site, adding a subscription service that is intended to help them compete in the streaming music industry. The Google GOOGL -1.42%-owned video site has already signed new licensing deals with all of the major labels, but many independents are refusing to take part. Apparently, not only are smaller, indie labels not being offered the same deals as the majors, but the contracts that Google is putting in front of them are less than fair.

            In order to show their muscle, Google has stated that any label—meaning smaller, independent ones—that does not sign a deal with them will not only be left off the new service, but will have their content taken down from the original, free YouTube. Vice President and Global Head of Business at YouTube Robert Kyncl recently claimed that they already had deals with 90% of the industry, and that they had no choice but to move forward.

            “While we wish that we had 100% success rate, we understand that is not likely an achievable goal and therefore it is our responsibility to our users and the industry to launch the enhanced music experience,” he stated.

            Rumored to be called YouTube Music Pass, the new service is intended to change the way people use YouTube and stream music, paying a premium to skip ads. In addition, people will be able to download music directly from Music Pass, not just listen. While the field is already crowded with popular programs like Spotify, Beats Music, iTunes Radio, Samsung’s Milk and recently-added Amazon Prime Music, YouTube is easily one of the most used platforms by people to consume music, and can expect initial adoption to be much higher than a new product from a firm just joining the game.

            YouTube Is About To Delete Independent Artists From Its Site - Forbes
            More of the same here...

            YouTube to block indie labels as subscription service launches
            By Joe Miller

            YouTube will remove music videos by artists such as Adele, Arctic Monkeys and Radiohead, because the independent labels to which they belong have refused to agree terms with the site.

            Google, which owns YouTube, has been renegotiating contracts as it prepares to launch a music subscription service.

            A spokesperson for the indie labels said YouTube was making a "grave error of commercial judgment".

            YouTube said it was bringing "new revenue streams" to the music industry.

            http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-27891883
            Cheers

            -don
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9543023].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    @ Joe

    Rock will still be alive and well in 30-40 years, no doubt about it, and rock is most certainly not dead for new musicians. In-fact new musicians are getting their music out there more than ever before. Times change, and the way people get their music changes, but rock will never die, certainly not in our lifetime or the next. The article was titled "rock is finally dead" and it's not even close to being true.

    People have been stealing my stock images for as long as I have been creating images and I do not call image making dead. More people are creating great images than ever before.

    Overall licensing revenue in 2013 was still 15.6 billion....but yes, it down considerably from the heyday when we paid $15 for an album that may have had one or two good songs on it (in many cases). 15.6 billion is certainly not chump change.... While I still buy several full albums each year I much prefer to get my music from my $10 monthly Spotify subscription and SiriusXM on my satellite.

    Good artists still make some sweet money touring and for some acts merch sales are outstanding. The diversity of great accessible music today is simply off the charts. Way better than ever before... In-fact some artists are making money in alternative forms these days like with ads on websites and video channels.

    FTR...Gene and his brother Nick were rambling! They don't care for the rock music being made today so they make some noise and decide to dog it. Hair/glam metal is what Gene was good at, and yep, hair/glam metal is almost DEAD! File sharing may have meant to be the topic...but it took them almost no time at all to stray from the topic.
    There is a system that is broken for those of us who love songwriting, instruments, and all the soul of the analog, and it is now working against us — unless we conform. Unless we decide to stick, safely, to pop, and let gray men in a boardroom write our songs for us, dress us, and sell us from somewhere in the shadows

    ---

    There are still record companies, and it does apply to pop, rap, and country to an extent. But for performers who are also songwriters — the creators — for rock music, for soul, for the blues — it's finally dead
    The movie industry is still alive despite piracy, the music industry is still alive despite piracy, and the image industry is still alive despite piracy. Have they all changed? Yes they have... Which one has been hurt the most by piracy? If you asked me I would tell you the image industry has been hurt the most, but it's not going to stop people from making more and more great images. Obviously great image making is alive and well.

    And let's not forget illegal music file sharing has been on the decline as more and more people discover and start using Pandora, Spotify and the others...

    Thanks to the increased use of free music streaming services, illegal peer-to-peer (P2P) music file sharing "declined significantly" last year, according to a new report from The NPD Group.
    The volume of illegally downloaded music files from P2P services dropped 26 percent in 2012 compared to the previous year, the research firm said. Moreover, 40 percent of those who had illegally downloaded music via P2P services in 2011 reported that they had either stopped altogether, or downloaded less.

    http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2415896,00.asp
    Cheers

    -don
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9542628].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    Gene needs to put out some good music instead of complaining. He should take a few notes from relevant metal acts like Avenged Sevenfold and all could be good for him. Problem with that is his stuff is hair and glam metal, and it's NOT popular with the youth of today. In-fact even hair and glam metal fans like myself don't listen to much of it these days because it's not that great compared to some of the alternative metal, nu-metal, groove metal and other genres that are being dominated by acts that ARE NOT hair/glam metal bands.

    Avenged Sevenfold (1999–present)



    Kiss (1973–present)



    The Nightmare and Hail To The King albums came out in 2010 and 2013 respectively, and obviously they smash Gene all to hel* when it comes to number of streams...

    Disturbed (1996-2011)



    Volbeat (2001–present)



    Shinedown (2001-present)



    Five Finger Death Punch (2005–present)



    Much, much younger bands with much higher stream counts. Gene does not understand today's new metal music, and it's listeners and markets, and it appears as he has not figured out today's music industry in the same ways as many of the newer acts have. Do streams pay the artist a very low amount amount of cash? Yes they do, but obviously it gets your music out there and it can be a great marketing tool.

    Kiss and Def Leppard just finished a 40+ show tour that most of their fans were quite pleased with. I am thinking maybe Gene should stick to playing his shows, doing his KISS indoor football, and making his TV shows instead of declaring "rock is finally dead".

    Big props go out to Gene though, KISS and Def Leppard have sold over 200 million albums combined, and at 65 years old it looks like Gene will be riding rock and roll all the way to his grave, but not to the grave of rock and roll

    Cheers

    -don
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9542861].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    Gene is not even on the same streaming planet with the Red Hot Chili Peppers --> and they don't play glam or hair metal either. The play funk rock, funk metal and alternative rock. The RHCP have been around for 31 years, not as old as KISS, but they are getting up there in longevity, no doubt about that.

    Red Hot Chili Peppers (1983–present)



    Not many people (comparatively speaking) want to hear Gene's brand of rock and roll these days except for his fans from yesteryear. He failed to stay super relevant in the digital age and that's the bottom line.

    Those 10 Chili Peppers tracks have been streamed 240,000,000 times on Spotify alone. If Gene had the streaming numbers of the relevant artists of today I bet he would be singing the "you need to get with the digital age" song.

    Truth be told I am seeing way more great rock shows being played within a 3 hour drive from me than I was back in the day. An artist *may* have to tour and sell merch to make the big money, but hey, that's rock and roll.

    Cheers

    -don
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9542932].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    They say the numbers add up...

    The Numbers Add Up For YouTube's New Music Key Service
    If you’re not familiar with the situation already, YouTube (which is owned by Google) is the leading online platform for music discovery, as well as the preferred music service for those 18 and younger. In fact, 38.4% of all its video views come from music, and 10 of YouTube’s top 20 channels are dedicated to music, according to the YouTube analytics firm Tubular. Google has wanted to monetize these music video views even more than it has already with advertising by spinning off a separate music-only subscription service, and that’s what Music Key is.
    Reportedly the service will be an audio-only platform that will cost $9.99 per month, but for that the commercials are eliminated, and the user will have the new-found ability to listen to songs offline. A free 30 day trial is said to be offered, at least during the product launch.
    Of course, the billion dollar question is how many free users will actually turn into paying subscribers. Billboard recently ran a great article about the projected conversion rate based upon those of Pandora and Spotify. The article stated that Pandora’s paid subscription conversion rate stands at 4.4% based on 75.3 active users and 3.3 million subscribers. Spotify has done a much better job in that it has around 40 million users and 8 million paying customers worldwide for a 20% conversion rate.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/bobbyows...c-key-service/
    WIN claims strong-arm tactics are being used, and they also say the non-negotiable contract terms of the are lower than what Spotify and some others pay.

    Independent music labels are at loggerheads with YouTube over the licensing terms for its upcoming streaming music subscription service.

    The service – still not officially announced, but the subject of longstanding speculation within the music and technology industries – is expected to compete directly with Spotify, Deezer and their rivals.

    Music industry trade association the Worldwide Independent Network (WIN) has accused YouTube of strong-arm negotiating tactics trying to force indie labels to sign up to the new service.

    WIN, which represents independent labels worldwide, claims that YouTube is approaching labels directly with a "template contract" and threatening that if they do not sign it, all their music videos will be blocked on YouTube.

    It also claims the terms of the contract are non-negotiable, and undervalue the music of these labels in comparison to Spotify, Rdio, Deezer and other subscription streaming services.

    http://www.theguardian.com/technolog...cription-music
    Supposedly the new subscription service will have an off-line component, and if that off-line functionality works like Spotify's off-line component does the service could be compelling at $9.99 a month for many folks.

    I don't know what they intend to offer over what Spotify already offers, if anything, but I can tell you the off-line component is the main reason I pay my $10 a month to Spotify. Commercial free is nice, but being able to listen to your library and playlists off-line on all of your devices is great!

    Cheers

    -don
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9543046].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    Everyone Calm Down. YouTube Is NOT Going To Remove Music Videos
    That's what Ari Herstand of Digital Music News is claiming...

    Everyone got it wrong. The Financial Times, The Guardian, MusicWeek, The Verge, Bob Lefsetz , The Daily Digest, and, yes, Digital Music News (sorry Paul).
    It just goes to show, that a sensationalist headline is too good to pass up. And yes, if YouTube was going to rip down every video containing music that was not signed up to their new Spotify-esque music streaming service, then that WOULD be HUGE news. As it was today.
    Sure, Robert Crookson of the Financial Times got the interview with Robert Kyncl, YouTube’s head of content and business operations, but even he got the story wrong. YouTube has been so secretive up to this point about it’s alleged streaming service (they hadn’t gone on record that it even exists until today) that Crookson interpreted what Kyncl said wrong.

    Note that in Crookson’s article, Kyncl is not quoted anywhere saying “YouTube will be blocking music videos.” Crookson said it. And everyone else repeated it.
    There are millions and millions of videos uploaded by 14 year olds in their bedrooms around the world singing songs they just wrote. Or cover songs they did not obtain the license for. They have not distributed these songs to YouTube Music, iTunes, Spotify or anywhere else. You think YouTube is just going to start banning these users? Ripping down millions of videos from kids? From artists who don’t know better?
    “With the surrounding text (and other things I’ve read including the partner agreement) I take it to say “We’re blocking videos [from monetization].” When they say “platform” they mean content ID. Saying they’re blocking videos from YouTube doesn’t make any logical sense to YouTube as a platform. One thing I’ve noticed from working with them is they tend to use a lot of insider language when trying to communicate with the masses. It’s very confusing.”
    So, monetization will be shut down from videos that contain music that has not been submitted to YouTube’s music streaming service.

    http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/perm...e-music-videos
    Cheers

    -don
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9543130].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    You can read the Cookson (not Crookson ) piece here:

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ea6728e2-f...#axzz3E4vCGN8D

    It's a June 17th article..

    Cheers

    -don
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9543153].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    Cookson wrote a follow-up piece on July 3rd that says Google has delayed action but still intends to take down videos from indie labels that do not come to terms.

    YouTube has postponed a controversial plan to block certain record labels from its video platform, following an outcry from the creative community and growing scrutiny from European regulators.
    Two weeks ago, the Google-owned company warned that “in a matter of days” it would start taking down videos from a number of record labels that had refused to sign its new licensing terms.

    But the uproar that followed the revelations has prompted YouTube to make a last-minute U-turn. The world’s largest video streaming company is allowing more time to negotiate a solution with labels, although it still intends to block them if they cannot reach agreement, according to people familiar with the matter.

    http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/7978f...#axzz3E4vCGN8D
    Cheers

    -don
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9543170].message }}

Trending Topics