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Ray Rice..Did he got what he deserved ?

by discrat
154 replies
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He got released by Ravens for his assault on his wife earlier this year.

Pretty brutal hit. Should he suspended indefinitely from NFL ?

Or maybe even incarcerated ?
  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    I almost started a thread to ask about this story.

    They punished him once and took flak for a light punishment. Then a nother tape of the same instance surfaces (where has this been?) and they punish him again?

    No, he wasn't legally charged as he agreed to a counseling program so charges were not filed...

    She married him AFTER this happened so I don't have a lot of sympathy for her.
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      I almost started a thread to ask about this story.

      They punished him once and took flak for a light punishment. Then a nother tape of the same instance surfaces (where has this been?) and they punish him again?

      No, he wasn't legally charged as he agreed to a counseling program so charges were not filed...

      She married him AFTER this happened so I don't have a lot of sympathy for her.
      I sure agree with that. You marry a man that beats on you, and he should be off the hook. What kind of woman is drooling stupid gold digger enough to marry a man that beats her? Let her pay for her bucks if that is how she insists on getting them.
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      • Profile picture of the author The Niche Man
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        I sure agree with that. You marry a man that beats on you, and he should be off the hook. What kind of woman is drooling stupid gold digger enough to marry a man that beats her? Let her pay for her bucks if that is how she insists on getting them.
        - But she loves him.
        - He didn't mean it.
        - Otherwise he's a good man.

        Excuse my bad attempt to quote usual cliches of battered wives who stay.
        It would be funny ... if it wasn't so sad.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          I saw the video. It looked like she was lunging to hit him. So he hit her.

          Personally, I would never hit anyone for any reason, other than an immediate threat of assault. So, to me..it's always wrong. Man, woman, child...always. And I don't get men getting into fights..for any reason. Violence is insane.

          But why is it different for a woman?
          Is it because she is smaller? So, it's OK to hit someone that is your own size...but not smaller? Is it because women are so much weaker than men, that it's like hitting a child?

          Is it because women are unstable and aren't responsible for being violent? (I'm not saying that's true, but it may be a rationale)
          Is it because women aren't expected to control their temper, but men are?
          Is it because women cry more easily? Because they are the ones who give birth?

          There has to be a real reason, other than "They are a woman".

          So, if he was lunging to hit her, and she hit him, and knocked him out...would she be fired from her job? Go to jail? Would we be calling her names?

          So often, I hear "men" say "I don't look for fights, but I never walk away from one". To me, that's moronic. There is nothing macho about being violent.

          But, I don't get it. Why is it worse when you hit a woman? The size? The frailty?

          I'm not kidding. I hear guys say "Never hit a woman, no matter what". And completely miss why they don't say "Never hit another person, no matter what".

          I know...there are things in human nature that escape me. And I've learned to go along (when selling or in social circles) with whatever someone says, and gauge other people's reactions...but this is one thing I truly don't get.
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          • Profile picture of the author discrat
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post




            There has to be a real reason, other than "They are a woman".


            But, I don't get it. Why is it worse when you hit a woman? The size? The frailty?

            .

            Good grief. Really ?? Are you serious ? You don't get it ???

            I am just going to leave it at that because what Iam about to say towards your statements will shut this Thread down.

            Personally, I never would have believed people,particularly men, would make statements like this. Unreal
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by discrat View Post

              Good grief. Really ?? Are you serious ? You don't get it ???

              I am just going to leave it at that because what Iam about to say towards your statements will shut this Thread down.

              Personally, I never would have believed people,particularly men, would make statements like this. Unreal

              It sounds like you have a strong opinion on it. If you could explain it, I would appreciate it.

              And I promise not to report the post. There is nothing you could say to me that would upset me. My question was real.

              Maybe another way to ask it is "If you weigh 250 pounds, and a woman weighs 120 pounds, why is it worse to hit a 120 pound woman, than a 120 pound man?".

              I know the answer is cultural. I'm not arguing here, but if you or anyone else would give a serious answer, I'd be grateful.

              Last night, I told my wife about this question. She asked "Would you ever hit me?" Of course I said No. She asked "I know, Why not?".

              And I said "First, I love you, and would never forgive myself. Second, I'm trained, and would never see you as a threat. Third, If I hit you, you would likely die. And I would never hit anyone, no matter who they were. Even if I hated them".

              For some reason, that answer satisfied her. But it didn't satisfy me. I know there is gender issue. But I still don't understand its rationale.

              And I don't get why men are more likely to hit a wife (or fiance) that a woman that's a stranger...even when the circumstances are the same. (A lunge forward obviously meaning harm). The closest I can come, is that maybe they feel like they own the woman, and so it's somehow their right.



              Originally Posted by discrat View Post

              Sorry, its just my " irony detector" goes off here


              To me getting back ' silly ' vengeance on a small business(funeral home wasn't it ?) for something that was so trivial and inconsequential (and happened decades I repeat DECADES before lol) is truly
              "human nature that escapes me"
              Somehow, you have turned my post into some sort of personal insult to you. That's another part of human nature I don't understand. Do you think this post is insulting me?
              I was asking a question that I didn't have a rational answer to. If I could get one from you, I't would be helpful.
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              • Profile picture of the author discrat
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                Somehow, you have turned my post into some sort of personal insult to you. That's another part of human nature I don't understand. Do you think this post is insulting me?
                I was asking a question that I didn't have a rational answer to. If I could get one from you, I't would be helpful.
                Not an insult. Just an observation !!

                I just see you always post about how human nature defies your logic. And it is just too ironic ...considering your so passionate about this notion you always bring up.

                Maybe, you have to go no farther than your own experiences to discover this assertion;
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              • Profile picture of the author discrat
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                It sounds like you have a strong opinion on it. If you could explain it, I would appreciate it.

                And I promise not to report the post. There is nothing you could say to me that would upset me. My question was real.

                Maybe another way to ask it is "If you weigh 250 pounds, and a woman weighs 120 pounds, why is it worse to hit a 120 pound woman, than a 120 pound man?".

                I know the answer is cultural. I'm not arguing here, but if you or anyone else would give a serious answer, I'd be grateful.

                Last night, I told my wife about this question. She asked "Would you ever hit me?" Of course I said No. She asked "I know, Why not?".

                And I said "First, I love you, and would never forgive myself. Second, I'm trained, and would never see you as a threat. Third, If I hit you, you would likely die. And I would never hit anyone, no matter who they were. Even if I hated them".

                For some reason, that answer satisfied her. But it didn't satisfy me. I know there is gender issue. But I still don't understand its rationale.

                And I don't get why men are more likely to hit a wife (or fiance) that a woman that's a stranger...even when the circumstances are the same. (A lunge forward obviously meaning harm). The closest I can come, is that maybe they feel like they own the woman, and so it's somehow their right.


                .
                Here is the thing. For many Men .including myself, it goes way farther than "cultural". Personally, protecting a woman is just part of my wiring.

                It is instinctive. There is no thought behind it. I know many Men are not like that.

                The reason why for me it is not cultural is that my Dad nor my Mom once mentioned not to hit girls.

                Never.

                It was just something I understood that was part of my general make up.


                Iam the type of guy when I see a child or women being physicaly assaulted in Public I go to her aid. No thought, no mulling the situation over. It doesn't matter if he has a gun or knife( yeah that happened once)

                Its just a reflex. Whether it be to my detriment or not. (btw, I can say without hesitation I would have tried to restrain Rice if I saw him do this. And I would have gotten my as kicked too)

                If I see a man cussing to a woman cashier for no reason I will tell him to stop or else I will remove him from the premises and call the police.

                If it was a man doing it to a man ? Well, I would tell him to cool off but not nearly as aggressively, to be honest

                Some men do not have that in their DNA so I know it must be perplexing and foreign to them.

                I can understand that.


                I remember years ago I had a girlfriend who got mad at me and hit me over the head with a skillet, hard. I simply ran away and called the Police. ( I did hang up and told her if it happened again she would go to jail)

                Now if it was a guy who did that he would have a fist in his face ,just to be frank.

                Is that Fair ??

                Maybe not. But some of us are just wired like that.

                Sorry, if you can't grasp that.
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          • Profile picture of the author discrat
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


            I know...there are things in human nature that escape me. And I've learned to go along (when selling or in social circles) with whatever someone says, and gauge other people's reactions...but this is one thing I truly don't get.
            Sorry, its just my " irony detector" goes off here


            To me getting back ' silly ' vengeance on a small business(funeral home wasn't it ?) for something that was so trivial and inconsequential (and happened decades I repeat DECADES before lol) is truly
            "human nature that escapes me"
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  • Profile picture of the author The Niche Man
    Coward piece of crap he is. A two game suspension is a travesty of justice. In fact, the NFL commissioner should be suspended along with Ray (panty-waist) Rice IMO.

    Ray Rice should be in Jail, where's the D.A in New Jersey? Maybe he should taste some kind of disciplinary action himself. Where's his wife's family, are they going to stand for this, her father, brother's , uncle's. Any real men in her family?

    What a nice example, if I did that my *ss would be sitting under the jail. If the NFL doesn't re-open the case after seeing that video today, fans should protest.

    I'm not sure what's up with his wife, sitting submissively by him at the press conference. She looked timid, like she was afraid he might back hand her right there if she did something wrong.

    I don't get it, maybe he supports her family, maybe she's staying because of the children or "she loves him ... he didn't mean it". But she needs to get the h*ll out of there, at least until he gets serious anger management therapy.

    Anyway he shouldn't be playing football, he should be seeing a shrink. Playing football should not be his first priority. Raven fans have the nerve to cheer for this punk *ss piece of *#@?#.

    I'll be watching the NFL, and if they don't take action against this wife-beater, I "won't be" watching the NFL.
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      yeah Niche,
      I do not see how they can't open this case back up. Its a brutal one hit assault.

      I know some people have the gall to say she started it but that is BS.

      Like any other man of that strength and size, in a safe way you restrain somebody or cover yourself if you cannot run away. If necessary notify the local Authorities.

      And then the coldness he exhibited when she lay motionless. Like a piece of an animal. Unbelievable.

      But according to Coach Harbaugh earlier before tape he says that " things like this happen when people drink ".

      They do ? Like this ?? If so does that make it excusable since the alcohol did it ?
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      • Profile picture of the author The Niche Man
        Originally Posted by discrat View Post


        But according to Coach Harbaugh earlier before tape he says that " things like this happen when people drink ".

        They do ? Like this ?? If so does that make it excusable since the alcohol did it ?
        If that's all coach Harbaugh has to say after witnessing a criminal assault like that maybe he should taste some kind of disciplinary action himself. If that was his wife, daughter or sister I wonder if he'd have that same response.
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
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    Originally Posted by discrat View Post

    He got released by Ravens for his assault on his wife earlier this year.

    Pretty brutal hit. Should he suspended indefinitely from NFL ?

    Or maybe even incarcerated ?
    Ray Rice IS suspended indefinitely by NFL. He should have been hit with harsher legal penalties though.

    Ray Rice suspended indefinitely by NFL - SBNation.com

    It's the same legal crew that is trying to throw the book at the lady that did not have a valid permit in that state for her handgun. She had a valid permit in her home state and she carries a gun because she had been robbed twice.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinio...lumn/13862831/

    Cheers

    -don
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Ray Rice should be in Jail, where's the D.A in New Jersey? Maybe he should taste some kind of disciplinary action himself. Where's his wife's family, are they going to stand for this, her father, brother's , uncle's. Any men in her family?
      Of course he should have gone to jail - but he didn't because they cut a deal to allow him to attend counseling instead.

      Doesn't matter where the wife's family is - the woman was dumb enough to marry him AFTER he knocked her out. She's on her own in my book. It's one thing to be cowed and afraid to leave an abuser - another to walk into a marriage knowing what he is.

      My surprised was that the Commissioner could say "here's your punishment" and then weeks later say "now here's some more punishment".

      Nothing changed except you could SEE him hit her - they knew all along that's what happened. He admitted to doing it. I think he's a creep but I also think it's strange the way the punishment was handed out.
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      • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
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        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        My surprised was that the Commissioner could say "here's your punishment" and then weeks later say "now here's some more punishment".
        Supposedly the NFL did not have access to the piece of tape that actually showed the punch until now. Without actual proof of the punch I guess Roger was giving him some sort of benefit of the doubt. I thought it was too weak of punishment from the beginning, at least he is doing the right thing now.

        Cheers

        -don
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        • Profile picture of the author The Niche Man
          Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

          Supposedly the NFL did not have access to the piece of tape that actually showed the punch until now.

          Cheers

          -don
          I can't believe they had the nerve to say that. If they didn't how could they make a fair ruling on the length or severity of the punishment? They're full of cr*p, that shows me they didn't really take the case that seriously, just give that coward a fast slap on the wrist. We need to get this behind us, the season is about to start.
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
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    And Ray Lewis says their is no comparison between himself and Ray Rice.

    Ray Lewis: 'There is no comparison of me and Ray Rice' - CBSSports.com

    Lewis is the one that got off way, way, way too easy...

    And let us not forget another NFL Rae --> Mr. Rae Curuth.

    Rae Carruth | Murderpedia, the encyclopedia of murderers

    Cheers

    -don
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  • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
    No he shouldn't be. If the NFL wants to create a policy on violence, do it but for all violent acts off the field. Which would be over stepping IMHO. With this new rule, more women might not seek medical treatment.

    As to the woman going back, marrying him or whatever, can't judge her for it. No one should. It's easy to type online about how she shouldn't do this or that but we don't know her mental state or situation. I know women who stayed in bad relationships because the alternatives where just as bad.

    -g
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Originally Posted by discrat View Post

    He got released by Ravens for his assault on his wife earlier this year.

    Pretty brutal hit. Should he suspended indefinitely from NFL ?

    Or maybe even incarcerated ?


    Yes to suspension forever and I don't know about incarceration.

    With the release of the video showing what actually happened in the elevator, the NFL now has an "appearance problem" that must be dealt with.

    And the league should have a no tolerance policy when it comes to domestic violence.

    Violence against women is out of control in this society.

    Rapes in our military and on our college campuses are out of control.

    Lord help the NFL commish if we find out he already saw the tape and lied about not seeing it until now.

    Who knows what the domestic violence laws are in NJ? If they try to recharge him, will that be double jeopardy?

    In some states if the female does not want to press charges then there are no charges but in other states, the abuser is prosecuted no matter what the abused has to say.

    The NFL should have sent this message much earlier in this situation.

    I have 4 sisters and plenty of female family and the guys in our family always made of point to help the boyfriends and husbands understand that beating of the women in our family will not be tolerated and thankfully the warnings have been effective.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      Yes to suspension forever and I don't know about incarceration.

      With the release of the video showing what actually happened in the elevator, the NFL now has an "appearance problem" that must be dealt with.

      And the league should have a no tolerance policy when it comes to domestic violence.

      Violence against women is out of control in this society.

      Rapes in our military and on our college campuses are out of control.

      Lord help the NFL commish if we find out he already saw the tape and lied about not seeing it until now.

      Who knows what the domestic violence laws are in NJ? If they try to recharge him, will that be double jeopardy?

      In some states if the female does not want to press charges then there are no charges but in other states, the abuser is prosecuted no matter what the abused has to say.

      The NFL should have sent this message much earlier in this situation.

      I have 4 sisters and plenty of female family and the guys in our family always made of point to help the boyfriends and husbands understand that beating of the women in our family will not be tolerated and thankfully the warnings have been effective.
      What if - under the exact same circumstance - Ray knocked out a man. Same suspension?
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      • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
        Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

        What if - under the exact same circumstance - Ray knocked out a man. Same suspension?
        Of course not.

        Charles Barkley threw some guy through a bar window and I believe the NBA did nothing to him and rightly so.

        There are standards of behavior that have been set in this society and hitting a woman is not acceptable.
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        • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
          Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

          Of course not.

          Charles Barkley threw some guy through a bar window and I believe the NBA did nothing to him and rightly so.

          There are standards of behavior that have been set in this society and hitting a woman is not acceptable.
          Possibly an apples to airplanes comparison, as I'm not familiar with the Barkley story.

          But ultimately, violent assault is acceptable against men, just not women. Got it.

          That's the most genderist thing I ever seen you say.
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          • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
            Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

            But ultimately, violent assault is acceptable against men, just not women. Got it.
            What if a woman violently assaults another woman? Or what if a woman violently assaults a man? Is it only a violent assault if done by a man on a woman?

            A violent assault is a violent assault no matter what the gender of the assaulter and assaultee is.
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          • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
            Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

            Possibly an apples to airplanes comparison, as I'm not familiar with the Barkley story.

            But ultimately, violent assault is acceptable against men, just not women. Got it.

            That's the most genderist thing I ever seen you say.

            I never said that.

            This is what I said...


            Of course not.

            "Charles Barkley threw some guy through a bar window and I believe the NBA did nothing to him and rightly so.

            There are standards of behavior that have been set in this society and hitting a woman is not acceptable."

            Let me be clear.

            Assault is one thing and a man beating up on a woman is another.

            I am not in favor of men beating up on women.

            How about yourself?
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            • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
              Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

              What if a woman violently assaults another woman? Or what if a woman violently assaults a man? Is it only a violent assault if done by a man on a woman?

              A violent assault is a violent assault no matter what the gender of the assaulter and assaultee is.
              That's what I was getting at.

              Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

              I never said that.

              This is what I said...


              Of course not.

              "Charles Barkley threw some guy through a bar window and I believe the NBA did nothing to him and rightly so.

              There are standards of behavior that have been set in this society and hitting a woman is not acceptable."

              Let me be clear.

              Assault is one thing and a man beating up on a woman is another.

              I am not in favor of men beating up on women.

              How about yourself?
              A man beating up a woman is assault. A man beating up another man is assault. I don't think the consequences should be different.
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          • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
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            Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

            Of course not.

            Charles Barkley threw some guy through a bar window and I believe the NBA did nothing to him and rightly so.

            There are standards of behavior that have been set in this society and hitting a woman is not acceptable.
            Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

            Possibly an apples to airplanes comparison, as I'm not familiar with the Barkley story.

            But ultimately, violent assault is acceptable against men, just not women. Got it.

            That's the most genderist thing I ever seen you say.
            In 1997 a guy at a bar harassed the Round Mound of Rebound for a good part of the evening according to a witness, and then he threw a cup of ice at the woman Charles was with. Shortly ater a heated exchange the guy returned and threw a glass at the woman and then Sir Charles threw the man through the window. The criminal charges were dismissed and Barkley settled with the guy for $75,000.

            If I remember correctly back in the day Barkley did get suspended for spitting at a fan and also for "chasing" an official. I know he was suspended other times for on court fights but not for "defending" the woman in the bar.

            Cheers

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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I don't have a drop of empathy for women who stay in abusive relationships - and I worked at a crisis center. They get addicted to sympathy. Everyone is so "understanding" and "caring" that they almost look forward to being hit so they can get all that attention. I didn't play that game with them. I told them straight out if they stayed, don't look to me to feel sorry for them. They need to wake the hell up and get out before the ******* goes to far and kills them. That isn't a rare occurrence either. You can't sympathize with those women - you have to be blunt with them.

    And the point brought up above - no nobody should hit anyone else, but women are small enough that men can very easily do them excessive damage. Men stand a chance against other men, women stand a chance against other women. But unless a woman is specially trained to fight, a guy is going to have the same effect on her as a wrecking ball has on the side of a building.

    I still think, though, that any time anyone hits anyone else, they should be expecting the other person to swing back at them. That's the way it should be. You have right to defend yourself no matter who's doing the swinging.
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Rumors are that TMZ will release another bombshell today proving that the NFL and the Ravens already saw that footage.

    We'll see...
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  • Profile picture of the author Young Financier
    I think his penalty is really unfair. Why? Because....when Beyonce's sister (Solange) attacked Jay-Z, everyone simply laughed about it and no one got upset...but they're calling for Ray Rice's head? Society has a way of letting women do whatever they want without consequence.

    Besides, me being a black man and knowing how black women love to antagonize and provoke men to react, I really believe there has to be more to the story. When you get into an argument with a black woman and try to walk away, she isn't gonna let you do that. She'll purposely say the most disgusting things she can think of to get a reaction and in most cases, they'll put their hands on you because she WANTS you to hit her....because they know that if you hit them back, you'll be vilified, not her. America has a chance to see what black men go through in dealing with black women but unfortunately the black woman's role will be swept under the rug by feminists and male feminists.
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    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by Young Financier View Post

      I think his penalty is really unfair. Why? Because....when Beyonce's sister (Solange) attacked Jay-Z, everyone simply laughed about it and no one got upset...but they're calling for Ray Rice's head? Society has a way of letting women do whatever they want without consequence.

      Besides, me being a black man and knowing how black women love to antagonize and provoke men to react, I really believe there has to be more to the story. When you get into an argument with a black woman and try to walk away, she isn't gonna let you do that.

      She'll purposely say the most disgusting things she can think of to get a reaction and in most cases, they'll put their hands on you because she WANTS you to hit her....because they know that if you hit them back, you'll be vilified, not her. America has a chance to see what black men go through in dealing with black women but unfortunately the black woman's role will be swept under the rug by feminists and male feminists.
      That was funny. (Jay Z & Beyonce's sister)

      So in your opinion, Rice's wife's girly slaps in the elevator and some hidden story justified him knocking the shit out of her?

      And...

      I'm willing to bet that black females antagonization of black men in these situations isn't much worse than any other group of women and their men.
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      • Profile picture of the author Young Financier
        Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

        That was funny. (Jay Z & Beyonce's sister)

        So in your opinion, Rice's wife's girly slaps in the elevator and some hidden story justified him knocking the shit out of her?

        And...

        I'm willing to bet that black females antagonization of black men in these situations isn't much worse than any other group of women and their men.
        See what I mean....

        Show me where I said anything about justification. I simply said that there must be more to the story. I'm also saying that women should keep their hands to themselves. I'm sick of society telling women that it's okay for them to do whatever they want without any consequences. The breaking of this story is only gonna make women feel more invincible. They see a woman putting her hands on a man, he reacts and he's the bad guy while she's portrayed as the victim. This is bad for every man in our society. I'm sure if a man gave him a "girly slap" and he knocked the guy out, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Why the double standard?

        And no, black women's antagonizing of black men is levels above what men of other races go through.
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        • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
          Originally Posted by Young Financier View Post

          See what I mean....

          Show me where I said anything about justification. I simply said that there must be more to the story.

          I'm also saying that women should keep their hands to themselves. I'm sick of society telling women that it's okay for them to do whatever they want without any consequences. The breaking of this story is only gonna make women feel more invincible. They see a woman putting her hands on a man, he reacts and he's the bad guy while she's portrayed as the victim. This is bad for every man in our society. I'm sure if a man gave him a "girly slap" and he knocked the guy out, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Why the double standard?

          And no, black women's antagonizing of black men is levels above what men of other races go through.
          Your more to the story line sounded like you're looking for some sort of justification to me.

          I'm saying that unless the woman comes at the man with a knife or some other deadly weapon I can't see the justification for knocking the shit out of her.

          You said...

          And no, black women's antagonizing of black men is levels above what men of other races go through

          I say...

          I doubt that here in the U.S.A.

          BTW, I'm also black and married to a black lady for almost 25 years, with plenty of sisters, so I know black women just as much as you do.
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          • Profile picture of the author Young Financier
            Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

            Your more to the story line sounded like you're looking for some sort of justification to me.

            I'm saying that unless the woman comes at the man with a knife or some other deadly weapon I can't see the justification for knocking the shit out of her.

            You said...

            And no, black women's antagonizing of black men is levels above what men of other races go through

            I say...

            I doubt that here in the U.S.A.

            BTW, I'm also black and married to a black lady for almost 25 years, with plenty of sisters, so I know black women just as much as you do.
            LOL....you doubt that here in the U.S.A? I'm gonna guess that since you've been married for 25 years that you're 50+. You come from an era in which black women actually conducted themselves like women. I'm in my 20's and I'm telling you that these black women in my age range are NOTHING like those from the older generation. I'm gonna give you a pass since you probably don't come into much contact with younger black women.

            Moving along....if a woman feels that she's weaker (despite the fact that they claim to be equal to men), why even put her hands on a man to begin with? I see that no one wants to address that part of the situation. Why does society keep giving these women passes for being the aggressor?
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            • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
              Originally Posted by Young Financier View Post

              LOL....you doubt that here in the U.S.A? I'm gonna guess that since you've been married for 25 years that you're 50+. You come from an era in which black women actually conducted themselves like women. I'm in my 20's and I'm telling you that these black women in my age range are NOTHING like those from the older generation.

              I'm gonna give you a pass since you probably don't come into much contact with younger black women.

              Moving along....if a woman feels that she's weaker (despite the fact that they claim to be equal to men), why even put her hands on a man to begin with? I see that no one wants to address that part of the situation. Why does society keep giving these women passes for being the aggressor?
              I have a whole bunch of nieces and I still say you're way off base with your assertions but God bless you anyway.
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              • Profile picture of the author Young Financier
                Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                I have a whole bunch of nieces and I still say you're way off base with your assertions but God bless you anyway.
                LOL, so because your nieces aren't that way, that means it doesn't exist? You really need to pay more attention and leave the house.
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                • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                  Originally Posted by Young Financier View Post

                  LOL, so because your nieces aren't that way, that means it doesn't exist? You really need to pay more attention and leave the house.
                  Sir, I never said it doesn't exist.

                  You claim black woman are a lot more antagonistic than other women - and I'm saying if so, its not by much in this society.

                  Also, IMHO you seem to looking for ways to justify slugging a women and that's where we differ.

                  All The Best!!
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        • Profile picture of the author Vid Yo
          Originally Posted by Young Financier View Post

          See what I mean....

          Show me where I said anything about justification. I simply said that there must be more to the story. I'm also saying that women should keep their hands to themselves. I'm sick of society telling women that it's okay for them to do whatever they want without any consequences. The breaking of this story is only gonna make women feel more invincible. They see a woman putting her hands on a man, he reacts and he's the bad guy while she's portrayed as the victim. This is bad for every man in our society. I'm sure if a man gave him a "girly slap" and he knocked the guy out, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Why the double standard?

          And no, black women's antagonizing of black men is levels above what men of other races go through.
          Why do you say "without any consequences"? You don't think being knocked unconscious is a consequence?

          I think your posts are just plain shameful and you really should be embarrassed for such racist comments. (and yes I read your mention of being a black guy).

          I'm embarrassed for you...
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Obviously the footage was from inside the elevator - so it's hard to understand why it's only now available.

      It did look like she was acting aggressively but still no excuse.

      I also wonder why all of a sudden sports teams are more P.C. than a regular job might be today. For many years, football players especially have had very light punishment for bad behavior. All of a sudden it's "your career is over" even though he's not been convicted of a crime.

      This particular incident isn't' a big deal to me mainly because SHE didn't leave - but married him after this. If the woman doesn't think it's a big deal, I'm not going to worry about it.
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      • Profile picture of the author discrat
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post


        This particular incident isn't' a big deal to me mainly because SHE didn't leave - but married him after this. If the woman doesn't think it's a big deal, I'm not going to worry about it.
        Thats funny you go around talking about people judging others in OT but you turn around and do the same thing.

        Do you know exactly what were the dynamics of their relationship ?

        What if Ray Rice had threatened to kill her and her family if she didn't do what he asked ??
        What if he is some psychopath and wreaks havoc on her Life every breathing hour of her Life ?

        Oh but of course you know everything about this woman and what she has gone thru, don't you ??

        Lets be judge. jury and executioner. Typical OT mob mentality
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        • Profile picture of the author discrat
          Its so sad to see other females here judge another woman and pretty much in a roundabout way so " oh well she stayed in the relationship so I do not feel sorry for ".

          Do not see how errant and insane that way of thinking is ??

          I mean common, you all are smart enough to know that their can be outrageous and horrid dynamics within a relationship where women can still stay in a abusive relationship.

          Quit your petty judging. It gets old

          What is most sad is that your focusing the spotlight on this woman instead of concentrating on the real perpetrator, Ray Rice.
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        • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
          Originally Posted by discrat View Post

          What if Roy Rice had threatened to kill her and her family if she didn't do what he asked ??
          Call the cops and don't marry him?


          Originally Posted by discrat View Post

          What if he is some psychopath and wreaks havoc on her Life every breathing hour of her Life ?
          Call the cops and don't marry him?


          What's more likely: the scenarios you put in play or that she's more than willing to take a punch to the face for diamonds and beach houses? I highly doubt she'd be "standing by her man" if he was hustling Nikes at the local Shoe Carnival.

          She made her choice. The rest is her responsibility.
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          • Profile picture of the author discrat
            Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

            Call the cops and don't marry him?




            Call the cops and don't marry him?

            Yes, call the cops if you have been manipulated, controlled, brain washed etc..etc.. I am not saying it happened.

            BUT what I am saying is open up your eyes and understand there can be circumstances that you and I can NEVER understand unless we are in that certain situation.
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            • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
              Originally Posted by discrat View Post

              Yes, call the cops if you have been manipulated, controlled, brain washed etc..etc.. I am not saying it happened.

              BUT what I am saying is open up your eyes and understand there can be circumstances that you and I can NEVER understand unless we are in that certain situation.
              There are circumstances where you get knocked the **** out in an elevator by your significant other that make it okay to marry that person two days later?
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              • Profile picture of the author discrat
                Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

                There are circumstances where you get knocked the **** out in an elevator by your significant other that make it okay to marry that person two days later?
                Like I say I do not know the circumstances so Iam not going to judge here and make assumptions of what was or what could have been going on in the young woman's mind.

                You probably never heard of Stockholm Syndrome have you ?

                You never know ,so I am not going to come to hasty conclusions

                P.S. Yes, if she is doing all this like you are saying ,then yes it is hard to have a whole lot of sympathy (though, it still is horrible to get knocked out like that no matter what)

                But until I know exactly the dynamics I reserve judgement
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                • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
                  Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                  Like I say I do not know the circumstances so Iam not going to judge here and make assumptions of what was or what could have been going on in the young woman's mind.

                  You probably never heard of Stockholm Syndrome have you ?

                  You never know ,so I am not going to come to hasty conclusions
                  Occam's razor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                  I think you'll find life much more efficient.
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                • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                  I'm saying that unless the woman comes at the man with a knife or some other deadly weapon I can't see the justification for knocking the shit out of her.
                  No, I don't justify it. I'm a woman - and it happened to me a long time ago - so don't act all dismissive with me. I left - because NO ONE gets a chance to hurt me twice.

                  You said...

                  And no, black women's antagonizing of black men is levels above what men of other races go through
                  What are you talking about - NO ONE SAID THAT. Except you, of course. Why is it every single news story is a racist agenda to you? That's just silly.

                  People shouldn't hit people - period. Bigger people should not try to control smaller people by hitting them - that's common sense. Being black, white, red, green or purple doesn't give you an excuse for bad behavior.
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                  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                    No, I don't justify it. I'm a woman - and it happened to me a long time ago - so don't act all dismissive with me. I left - because NO ONE gets a chance to hurt me twice.

                    What are you talking about - NO ONE SAID THAT. Except you, of course. Why is it every single news story is a racist agenda to you? That's just silly.

                    People shouldn't hit people - period. Bigger people should not try to control smaller people by hitting them - that's common sense. Being black, white, red, green or purple doesn't give you an excuse for bad behavior.
                    I understand you're anxious to get at me every chance you can but if you look at the sequence of comments in this thread I wasn't even talking to you...

                    ... and the only reason race is mentioned (despite your attempts to paint me as some sort of race monger which is a bunch of BS)...

                    ... is because young financier (who happens to be black) mentioned it first with him claiming that black women are way more antagonistic than other women - which I refuted.

                    Also you seriously misread what I said about justifications for hitting a woman.

                    BTW...

                    I'm sorry you had that problem with your spouse.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                      My point is simple. If a woman doesn't care enough about herself to leave when she is publicly abused and humiliated - I'm not going to worry about her.
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                      • Profile picture of the author discrat
                        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                        My point is simple. If a woman doesn't care enough about herself to leave when she is publicly abused and humiliated - I'm not going to worry about her.
                        Yeah I understand where you are coming from. Sorry, its clear now

                        Your right I guess I wouldn't worry about my daughter, sister, niece, mom, grand daughter etc..if they were in a similar situation ?

                        That makes sense ! .
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                      • Profile picture of the author The Niche Man
                        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                        My point is simple. If a woman doesn't care enough about herself to leave when she is publicly abused and humiliated - I'm not going to worry about her.
                        Kay, that's a tad cold, don't ya think? That's the very reason to be concerned about her. Maybe.

                        I just pray to God she doesn't have any daughters. Fine example she's setting for them. "This is what you do when your boyfriend knocks you out cold and drags you out of the elevator like a side of beef". Marry him. That's Love.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                          No, I don't think it's cold. Like I said - I've been there.

                          I would feel differently had this happened after the marriage but it didn't. If she did not think this was important enough to change her mind about the relationship or the marriage, I'll worry about those who can't help themselves.

                          Maybe it is cold but I can't obsess over every bad news story. The league took action - he's being punished - nothing for me to do here.

                          I think the 2 part punishment is a reaction to public sentiment after the light initial punishment. The teams need to get the rules straight and stick to them instead of making them up as they go.
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                          • Profile picture of the author The Niche Man
                            Now I think the spot light should shine on the so-called NFL commissioner Roger (let's get this behind us) Goodell. He must face the age old question ... What did he know - and when did he know it? And my personal addition ... why didn't he know?

                            He's looking more and more like a twit than even he probably imagined. I'm not sure his crack P.R team can help him wiggle out of this one.

                            The media, women's groups and females (who now make up 45% of the NFL fan base) is getting the grill ready ... and his *ss is the main entree.

                            He better have an incredible reason (excuse) for all the mistakes, wrong moves and questionable decisions he made on this one.

                            The NFL head honcho's have to be 'steaming' at Goodell for allowing this to spiral (pardon the pun) out of control. Now everyone's talking about this instead of football. NFL Board of Directors act funny ... when you mess with their money!
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                • Profile picture of the author Cali16
                  Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                  You never know ,so I am not going to come to hasty conclusions

                  But until I know exactly the dynamics I reserve judgement
                  Yet you were very quick to make harsh judgments in the thread you started where the girl fell out of the shopping cart....

                  Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                  Poor kid. Wonder how she got that broken arm?

                  Mom, seems relatively easy going at first and then we see the rage.

                  Parents like this have no Right to be........well parents !
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          • Profile picture of the author discrat
            Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

            Call the cops and don't marry him?







            What's more likely: the scenarios you put in play or that she's more than willing to take a punch to the face for diamonds and beach houses? I highly doubt she's be "standing by her man" if he was hustling Nikes at the local Shoe Carnival.

            She made her choice. The rest is her responsibility.
            Good grief. So since its "more likely", lets just go ahead and decide that thats the way we are going to go and thats what MUST have happened

            Screw off any Court proceedings or any proper investigations to try to understand what COULD have really been going on.

            Lets just go with "the most likely scenario "
            What rational thinking LOL
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            • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
              Originally Posted by discrat View Post

              Good grief. So since its "more likely", lets just go ahead and decide that the way we are going to goand thats what MUST have happened

              Screw off any Court proceedings or any proper investigations to try to understand what COULD have really been going on.

              Lets just go with "the most likely scenario "

              Yeah that fits me perfectly LOL
              Dude, it's caught on video. It's cut and dry. There's no circumstance that leads to marriage two days after that. None. Of course, it's her business. If she can take a lickin' and keep on tickin', it's fine by me.

              But...I reserve the right to judge her by it.

              And Ray should be in jail.
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      TL -

      The dailykos interpretation is a bit off...surprise!

      It was a discussion of how many woman publicly humiliated by abuse of a famous actor/music/sports figure - stay with or even marry the man after the abuse. They listed abut a half dozen famous couples who have had abusive relationships - and wondered why the women stay - is it love, or fame or money?

      He hit her - she married him after - now he's out of a job because he hit her and it was on film. The point was - this hurt her, too, because of financial loss and if she's going to stay with him no matter what he does, might as well stay out of camera range (the stairs).
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      • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        TL -

        The dailykos interpretation is a bit off...surprise!

        It was a discussion of how many woman publicly humiliated by abuse of a famous actor/music/sports figure - stay with or even marry the man after the abuse. They listed abut a half dozen famous couples who have had abusive relationships - and wondered why the women stay - is it love, or fame or money?

        He hit her - she married him after - now he's out of a job because he hit her and it was on film. The point was - this hurt her, too, because of financial loss and if she's going to stay with him no matter what he does, might as well stay out of camera range (the stairs).

        Sure Kay...
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Janay Rice responds to domestic violence footage being made public, husband’s release from Ravens - Salon.com
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    Claude I think the reason that most men will not hit women is, well for one they were taught not to, but the reason they were taught not to is because men and women are not created equally. Yes in almost all respects they should be treated equally, but that does not mean that they were created equally. It's just a fact, that men in general are stronger physically.

    Now I know there are plenty of examples of women that could probably beat me to a pulp - including probably a few in this forum. But there's no denying that as a whole the male gender is physically stronger. Otherwise by now we'd have women on our pro baseball and football teams.

    That being said - and to prove I'm not just a chauvinist, there's also no denying that women as a whole are much smarter and more rational than men.They are better communicators. There have been plenty of times that my wife has had to hold a "mental" door open for me as I entered a conversation with her and her friends that was obviously over my head.

    I think being kinder to women is just a tradition that was once passed down as a courtesy. Something that in a more civilized era was considered nice, but is now attacked as sexist or politically incorrect. - And if you think that this era is more civilized than those in the past, you just haven't been around long enough, or watched the news lately.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by garyv View Post

      Claude I think the reason that most men will not hit women is, well for one they were taught not to,
      That's the answer I was looking for. Thanks.
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Nebraska Lt. Governor Lavon Heidemann Resigns Following Domestic Abuse Allegations



    Opps...

    DiGiorno Used a Hashtag About Domestic Violence to Sell Pizza:

    DiGiorno's Tweet Using #WhyIStayed Hashtag Backfires
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  • Profile picture of the author Lance K
    Hey diddle diddle, Ray Rice up the middle would have a whole new meaning in prison.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Yep, I agree that men don't hit women because that is what we are taught.
    So much so that it has become culturally ingrained and accepted as an absolute truth of life.
    I suspect it stems from the fact that men are generally much stronger and able to cause
    serious damage or death to the keepers of our species. Possibly a miscarriage, or damage
    to a fetus.

    It's deeply ingrained. Zane Grey even wrote a book called "Code Of The West" and a major theme of the book was how wrong it was to abuse a woman.

    I once saw a fight in a bar that nobody broke up because the male (note the use of the term male - not man) getting the worst end of the deal had hit his woman in the face. The guy teaching the lesson did not even know either party until that night.

    Ray Rice deserves what he got. I'd say the same if he hit a man of the same stature and fighting ability as his now wife. I'd say otherwise if this theoretical man - or his fiancé - had a weapon or strong fighting ability. Self-defense is different than what he did. An athlete of his size and ability ought to be able to physically contain a minor threat by holding until he can get away or the person is calmer.

    I had a co-worker - fellow doorman (bouncer) - who had hand-to-hand combat training during his time in the army during Viet Nam. He was also weird in that he liked to fight and told me about times he would try and start a bar fight. Elsewhere, of course.

    Anyway, one night we were working and this woman took a hard swing at his face. He used her momentum to get her in a headlock so fast it was unbelievable. Even a guy like him can control himself, and the other person, until she calmed down.

    I'd say that males who physically or verbally abuse people - again self-defense/protection of others is different - and women who stay in abusive relationships just are not that good at handling life. Not healthy people to begin with.

    Also, regardless of race or age, females can be physical or verbal abusers and therefore not deserving of the title of woman.

    Dan
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      Yep, I agree that men don't hit women because that is what we are taught.
      So much so that it has become culturally ingrained and accepted as an absolute truth of life.
      I suspect it stems from the fact that men are generally much stronger and able to cause
      serious damage or death to the keepers of our species. Possibly a miscarriage, or damage
      to a fetus.
      I talked to a lady friend today about this thread (specifically my question).
      "Why is it so much worse to hit a woman, than to hit a man of the same size?"

      She told me it was because men have a fighting instinct that almost no women have. That men have testosterone, and are more ready to defend themselves physically. I mentioned that most men also have at least a little idea of how to defend themselves, and most women don't.

      But maybe it's mostly because that's how we were raised.

      My friend and I talked about the video. She asked what I would do, if I were the guy that walked up at the end. I told her that I would ask what happened, and then call an ambulance. She asked why I wouldn't try to help the woman. And I said "Because I have no idea what happened. Was she drunk? Drugged? Sick? Dead? Did she bump her head? Did he stab her? Is turning her over going to cause her to stop breathing? Will it open a wound?"

      And I wouldn't take my eye off the guy standing with her. Because I have no idea how he is involved.

      And I told my friend that being unconscious means that something is seriously wrong. So she gets an ambulance. How the man with her acted would determine how else I responded. But until she woke up, and talked, I wouldn't let her out of my sight....no matter what the other guy said. I would do the same thing, if it was the man on the floor and the woman standing over him.
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      • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
        women stay with abusive husbands/boyfriends/partners out of fear, shame, depression, and feeling unworthy. Not everyone is strong enough to take action.

        I think Ray Rice is a piece of shit coward. No, he did not get punished enough, not in my opinion, anyway.
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        • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
          Originally Posted by Karen Blundell View Post

          women stay with abusive husbands/boyfriends/partners out of fear, shame, depression, and feeling unworthy. Not everyone is strong enough to take action.

          I think Ray Rice is a piece of shit coward. No, he did not get punished enough, not in my opinion, anyway.
          I have one employee who is in a bad spot now with a guy who might be physically abusive. Some bad decisions on her part to quit a decent job (maybe got fired) and so on...Alcohol problem on her part as well. Now she lives with the guy, makes very little money, has a second DUI to deal with and cannot legally drive, nor get a better job until the DUI stuff is adjudicated...
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          • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
            Ray Rice got what he deserved, absolutely. I mean a big strong athlete hitting anyone of his wife's stature, whether male or female, is a coward. That's exactly what bullies do. They find someone weaker than they are whether it be in physical stature or mental state of mind. I find it completely disgusting!

            Now, back to women. Since we seem to be putting men and women on the same level playing field when it comes to hitting, (which I completely disagree with!) then why is it that two women fighting draws more attention than two guys?

            Claude, has this escaped you in your ponderings, or have you completely figured it out?

            Terra
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            • Profile picture of the author Kurt
              Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post


              Now, back to women. Since we seem to be putting men and women on the same level playing field when it comes to hitting, (which I completely disagree with!) then why is it that two women fighting draws more attention than two guys?


              Terra
              Because of the potential for a boob slip-out?

              BTW Terra, I feel that women hitting men knowing that the man won't hit them back is pure BS and a serious form of bullying.

              The reality is, men shouldn't hit women. Men shouldn't hit men. Women shouldn't hit women. And women shouldn't hit men.
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              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                Because of the potential for a boob slip-out?

                BTW Terra, I feel that women hitting men knowing that the man won't hit them back is pure BS and a serious form of bullying.

                The reality is, men shouldn't hit women. Men shouldn't hit men. Women shouldn't hit women. And women shouldn't hit men.
                What about dwarves? Riffle wants to know.


                Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                I was joking in my earlier post about it being a "ray" thing. While what Ray Rice did was very wrong, he isn't in the same category as Carruth, Lewis or Hernandez.

                What I find interesting is how people seem so much more upset about Ray Rice than Hernandez, who is accused of killing 3(?) people, in two seperate incidents.

                I'm guessing much of it has to do with the Ray Rice incident being on video. From what I understand, both Rice and the police accurately described the event to the NFL. But it wasn't until people actually saw it that the NFL (and public in general) reacted the way we are now.

                I'm also disturbed by the way Rice acted after she went down. It was almost like he wanted to raise his arms in victory and stand over her gloating like Ali did with Liston.

                It seems to me that if you hit someone you cared about in a fit of rage and that she was "accidently" knocked out when her head hit the hand rail, once she was down you'd try to revive her. I'd also try to pull down her skirt to protect her privacy.
                That was really the most telling part. You can accidentally knock someone out. But you can't accidentally ignore her, or not check to see if she's OK.

                Of course, we had no sound. But to me, that was the part that got my attention.
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                • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  What about dwarves? Riffle wants to know.
                  It's OK for dwarves to hit you.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                    Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                    It's OK for dwarves to hit you.
                    No.....OK, I hadn't thought it out. This is between the dwarf and Riffle. Don't punch the messenger.


                    And what is it about 5 year old, that think your groin is the perfect place to punch?
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                    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                      No.....OK, I hadn't thought it out. This is between the dwarf and Riffle. Don't punch the messenger.
                      It's OK for both the dwarf and Riffle to hit you. No need to discern between Riffle and the dwarf, it's the same.


                      And what is it about 5 year old, that think your groin is the perfect place to punch?
                      I need more info...My groin or your groin? I'm not sure if your use of "your" is general or specific...
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                      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                        It's OK for both the dwarf and Riffle to hit you. No need to discern between Riffle and the dwarf, it's the same..
                        Your grasp of Jiu Jitsu is impressive.

                        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                        I need more info...My groin or your groin? I'm not sure if your use of "your" is general or specific...
                        Your groin.

                        Attention all 5 year olds reading this. Free groin punches to Kurt's groin. $5 to the first one that can make him throw up.


                        Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

                        You mean at 18 she couldn't get starry-eyed about the potential earning power of her state record-holding running back boyfriend?

                        I knew a girl once who dated a guy in high school because he got 20% off at Subway.

                        Man, that statement sure explains how you got a woman. Can you still get 20% off?
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                  • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                    Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                    It's OK for dwarves to hit you.
                    Warning to all dwarves...

                    If you hit me, be prepared to be knocked on your a$$! Self-defense and all.


                    Terra
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                • Profile picture of the author yukon
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                  The reality is, men shouldn't hit women. Men shouldn't hit men. Women shouldn't hit women. And women shouldn't hit men.
                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  What about dwarves? Riffle wants to know.








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              • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                Because of the potential for a boob slip-out?

                BTW Terra, I feel that women hitting men knowing that the man won't hit them back is pure BS and a serious form of bullying.

                The reality is, men shouldn't hit women. Men shouldn't hit men. Women shouldn't hit women. And women shouldn't hit men.
                I guess a slip-out must be it. I think guys like looking at a female slip-out more than females like looking at a guy slip-out, though.

                I couldn't agree with you more about hitting with the exception of self-defense regardless of the genders involved. So again, we find ourselves on the same page. =)


                Terra
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                • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                  Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                  I guess a slip-out must be it. I think guys like looking at a female slip-out more than females like looking at a guy slip-out, though.

                  I couldn't agree with you more about hitting with the exception of self-defense regardless of the genders involved. So again, we find ourselves on the same page. =)


                  Terra
                  To be honest, I hate watching women fight. I never even cared for mud wrestling. But I don't like watching men fight either, although I do like watching sports like MMA and boxing.

                  And while I was joking about the boob slip-out, I'd bet there's a lot of truth in it. I think some guys get their rocks off in some way watching women fight.
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                • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
                  Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                  I guess a slip-out must be it. I think guys like looking at a female slip-out more than females like looking at a guy slip-out, though.

                  I couldn't agree with you more about hitting with the exception of self-defense regardless of the genders involved. So again, we find ourselves on the same page. =)


                  Terra
                  The real reason is because we are so vain we think the women are fighting over us.

                  Dan
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

              Ray Rice got what he deserved, absolutely. I mean a big strong athlete hitting anyone of his wife's stature, whether male or female, is a coward. That's exactly what bullies do. They find someone weaker than they are whether it be in physical stature or mental state of mind. I find it completely disgusting!

              Now, back to women. Since we seem to be putting men and women on the same level playing field when it comes to hitting, (which I completely disagree with!) then why is it that two women fighting draws more attention than two guys?

              Claude, has this escaped you in your ponderings, or have you completely figured it out?

              Terra
              Terra; I've never pondered about it. I would guess that it's less likely that there is serious injury, assuming both are women that have no idea how to fight.

              For some reason. some guys think it's hot. Actually Kurt's "Because of the potential for a boob slip-out?" is probably most of it.


              Join us next week for more of..."Claude's Ponderings"
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        • Profile picture of the author yukon
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Karen Blundell View Post

          women stay with abusive husbands/boyfriends/partners out of fear, shame, depression, and feeling unworthy. Not everyone is strong enough to take action.

          I think Ray Rice is a piece of shit coward. No, he did not get punished enough, not in my opinion, anyway.
          This lady is probably defending her husband because If he's not banking big money with the NFL, she's not banking big money either. Imagine having a multi-million dollar career disappear overnight.
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          • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
            Originally Posted by yukon View Post

            This lady is probably defending her husband because If he's not banking big money with the NFL, she's not banking big money either. Imagine having a multi-million dollar career disappear overnight.
            do you know what happens when you ASSume, right?

            I think making this about money is pretty callous. You have no idea how terrifying it is to be the victim of domestic abuse.
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      • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        I talked to a lady friend today about this thread (specifically my question).
        "Why is it so much worse to hit a woman, than to hit a man of the same size?"

        She told me it was because men have a fighting instinct that almost no women have. That men have testosterone, and are more ready to defend themselves physically. I mentioned that most men also have at least a little idea of how to defend themselves, and most women don't.

        But maybe it's mostly because that's how we were raised.

        My friend and I talked about the video. She asked what I would do, if I were the guy that walked up at the end. I told her that I would ask what happened, and then call an ambulance. She asked why I wouldn't try to help the woman. And I said "Because I have no idea what happened. Was she drunk? Drugged? Sick? Dead? Did she bump her head? Did he stab her? Is turning her over going to cause her to stop breathing? Will it open a wound?"

        And I wouldn't take my eye off the guy standing with her. Because I have no idea how he is involved.

        And I told my friend that being unconscious means that something is seriously wrong. So she gets an ambulance. How the man with her acted would determine how else I responded. But until she woke up, and talked, I wouldn't let her out of my sight....no matter what the other guy said. I would do the same thing, if it was the man on the floor and the woman standing over him.
        Your friend has a good point about fighting ability and inclination.

        I remember my Mom trying to spank me when I was young. She just could not do it hard enough at all.
        All it did was make me laugh.

        I don't move people who are unconscious or down because something is wrong. I had a customer who was lying face down on the floor in his room. There was booze and empty pill bottles in the room. (Turned out it was neurological damage from a year old head injury. But I did not learn that until days later.) Dispatch was telling me to turn him over and try to talk him. I was reluctantly about to do so when the deputy showed up and I was happy to stand back as instructed.

        Dan
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    I was joking in my earlier post about it being a "ray" thing. While what Ray Rice did was very wrong, he isn't in the same category as Carruth, Lewis or Hernandez.

    What I find interesting is how people seem so much more upset about Ray Rice than Hernandez, who is accused of killing 3(?) people, in two seperate incidents.

    I'm guessing much of it has to do with the Ray Rice incident being on video. From what I understand, both Rice and the police accurately described the event to the NFL. But it wasn't until people actually saw it that the NFL (and public in general) reacted the way we are now.

    I'm also disturbed by the way Rice acted after she went down. It was almost like he wanted to raise his arms in victory and stand over her gloating like Ali did with Liston.

    It seems to me that if you hit someone you cared about in a fit of rage and that she was "accidently" knocked out when her head hit the hand rail, once she was down you'd try to revive her. I'd also try to pull down her skirt to protect her privacy.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    As far as Janay being just a gold digger, they started dating in high school.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      As far as Janay being just a gold digger, they started dating in high school.
      You mean at 18 she couldn't get starry-eyed about the potential earning power of her state record-holding running back boyfriend?

      I knew a girl once who dated a guy in high school because he got 20% off at Subway.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

        You mean at 18 she couldn't get starry-eyed about the potential earning power of her state record-holding running back boyfriend?

        I knew a girl once who dated a guy in high school because he got 20% off at Subway.
        No, I mean it's pure conjecture about why she is with Rice. My psychic ablities aren't strong enough to tell me what's in her heart.

        And even if the only reason she's been with Rice for a decade is because of his money, that's between the two of them and not any of our business.

        Are you saying it's impossible that she cares for him for reasons other than (or in addition to) fame and fortune? All accounts before this incident seem to show Rice was a pretty good guy. Maybe his good points are part of her attraction?
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        • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          Are you saying it's impossible that she cares for him for reasons other than (or in addition to) fame and fortune? All accounts before this incident seem to show Rice was a pretty good guy. Maybe his good points are part of her attraction?
          I'm saying it sure makes me wonder. However, I also said earlier in this thread, "She made her choice. The rest is her responsibility." I.E, it's her choice. If she wants to be married to someone who would do that to her, so be it. However, it does make me suspicious of her motives...at least for the ten minutes of my life I'll be thinking about her.
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          • Profile picture of the author Kurt
            Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

            I'm saying it sure makes me wonder. However, I also said earlier in this thread, "She made her choice. The rest is her responsibility." I.E, it's her choice. If she wants to be married to someone who would do that to her, so be it. However, it does make me suspicious of her motives...at least for the ten minutes of my life I'll be thinking about her.
            If it's true she's only after his money, then this would be a great time for her to sue him. I'd bet she'd have a pretty good shot at a 7 figure judgementand take him for every penny he has, with the video as evidence. Seems like a better idea for a gold-digger than staying with someone just for the money.

            It's non sequitur to say "because Rice is rich and famous, she is a gold digger."
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            • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
              Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

              If it's true she's only after his money, then this would be a great time for her to sue him. I'd bet she'd have a pretty good shot at a 7 figure judgementand take him for every penny he has, with the video as evidence. Seems like a better idea for a gold-digger than staying with someone just for the money.

              It's non sequitur to say "because Rice is rich and famous, she is a gold digger."
              Give her time. The shit has only recently really hit the fan.

              I think a reasonable person can look at the situation and make a logical argument for either side of the coin. Just because you disagree doesn't make it non sequitur.

              Additionally, I don't think anyone is saying, "because Rice is rich and famous, she is a gold digger." I think what's being said is, "because Rice is rich and famous and she still married him two days after he knocked her the hell out, she may be a gold digger."
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              • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

                Give her time. The shit has only recently really hit the fan.

                I think a reasonable person can look at the situation and make a logical argument for either side of the coin. Just because you disagree doesn't make it non sequitur.

                Additionally, I don't think anyone is saying, "because Rice is rich and famous, she is a gold digger." I think what's being said is, "because Rice is rich and famous and she still married him two days after he knocked her the hell out, she may be a gold digger."
                What makes it non sequitur are the principles of logic, not whether I agree with it or not.

                And yes, we can wait and see and if more facts are presented, we can readjust our opinions accordingly. Same if she doesn't sue in a reasonable amount of time. But let's not assume she will sue until she does.

                However, to dismiss facts such as her spending 5 years with him before he made any money serverly weakens any argument about her being a gold digger.

                Just keep in mind that if you are wrong, your opinion is potentially slanderous. And even if you're correct, it's not any business of our's. She's the victim here. She got "knocked the hell out". Remember?
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                • Profile picture of the author Cali16
                  I saw a brief clip of Rice's wife being interviewed last night. In addition to being upset about all the exposure from the video, she also adamantly stated that what she and Rice have is "real love". Yep, what better way for your significant other to show "real love" than a fist in the face that renders you unconscious...
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                • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
                  Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                  What makes it non sequitur are the principles of logic, not whether I agree with it or not.
                  Fair enough. I'm not going down this rabbit hole.

                  And yes, we can wait and see and if more facts are presented, we can readjust our opinions accordingly. Same if she doesn't sue in a reasonable time.
                  I didn't say she would sue. I said it's still early.

                  However, to dismiss facts such as her spending 5 years with him before he made any money serverly weakens any argument about her being a gold digger.
                  I'm not saying it doesn't weaken the argument. Hell, I haven't even said she is a gold digger. I alluded that there's potential. I've also stated several times that it's her choice. Her choice to pan for gold. Her choice to potentially take another punch.


                  Just keep in mind that if you are wrong, your opinion is potentially slanderous. And even if you're correct, it's not any business of our's. She's the victim here. She got "knocked the hell out". Remember?
                  That's cute how you ended your post like I've forgotten what we're talking about. It's kind of like you're scolding me is a sarcastic manner.

                  I haven't directly stated that she's a gold digger. The first post I made where that can be assumed is a response to Discrat where I throw out that her desire to maintain a wealthy lifestyle is a more likely scenario than some the scenarios he threw out. The rest of my comments were a build off your assumption that she's not a gold digger because they dated in high school.

                  As for my comments being potentially slanderous...or more likely libelous...I'm pretty sure post #88 has me covered, as does my wording in post #107. Well, that and I'm sure Janay would have bigger fish to fry.



                  All of that said, I don't blame her for getting beaten. I'm simply incredulous that she would marry him two days after the fact.
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              • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
                Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

                Additionally, I don't think anyone is saying, "because Rice is rich and famous, she is a gold digger." I think what's being said is, "because Rice is rich and famous and she still married him two days after he knocked her the hell out, she may be a gold digger."
                or she may be scared to death of him
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        • Profile picture of the author discrat
          I think this woman has been put through the ringer.

          Although I must admit her reaction today was quite interesting. She chose to talk about on social media how everyone has ruined their Lives and completely wiped away any happiness they have had since the video release.

          I think a lot of people would have wanted her to step up and be a spokesperson for Domestic Violence and how it is intolerable.

          Its a sad situation and I am not so sure if I want to wag my finger in disapproval of her recent action, just yet.

          There is just too many variables to consider when dealing with abuse and domestic violence and what can entail because of it.

          I have seen too man incidences in the past where people have been abused over long periods of time and they really become clinically delusional as a result
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    If he just knocked her out, as he did, he should be really PUNISHED, right up to prison. I believe it DOES count as aggravated battery.

    When I was at pentagon station in Washington DC, I noticed a sign showing that you could LITERALLY, and said that holding a train door open could cost you an arm and a leg. Some horror films show similar things, and I don't trust a switch designed today on an automated platform to stand between health and disability. Rice left the womans ankles across the transom FAR TOO LONG for comfort! He should get prison for THAT as well!

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      If he just knocked her out, as he did, he should be really PUNISHED, right up to prison. I believe it DOES count as aggravated battery.

      When I was at pentagon station in Washington DC, I noticed a sign showing that you could LITERALLY, and said that holding a train door open could cost you an arm and a leg. Some horror films show similar things, and I don't trust a switch designed today on an automated platform to stand between health and disability. Rice left the womans ankles across the transom FAR TOO LONG for comfort! He should get prison for THAT as well!

      Steve
      Um...Steve....this is an elevator, not a train. People's legs don't get cut off when the door closes.. But he should get prison for laying her legs in the doorway for too long?


      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      The accomplice outside the elevator should get time as well.

      Steve
      You mean the complete stranger that was walking down the hall? How much prison time do you think he should get?
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    The accomplice outside the elevator should get time as well.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      The accomplice outside the elevator should get time as well.

      Steve
      Huh ?

      What are you talking about, Steve ?

      Accomplice...am I missing something here ??
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by discrat View Post

        Huh ?

        What are you talking about, Steve ?

        Accomplice...am I missing something here ??
        In an earlier film I saw, it looked more damning than the one I just saw. Still, I would be wondering if that witness didn't report this, outside the door when the doors opened..

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author discrat
          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          In an earlier film I saw, it looked more damning than the one I just saw. Still, I would be wondering if that witness didn't report this, outside the door when the doors opened..

          Steve
          So you are saying being an accessory to the crime ?

          Not sure....that seems like a stretch.
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    • Profile picture of the author celente
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      The accomplice outside the elevator should get time as well.

      Steve
      Throw in a dwaft and a nipple tassles and you have a perfect skit for SNL. LOL
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    Not to defend this guy's behavior - but he may not have meant for his reaction to be so severe. He spends his entire day pushing and knocking guys to the ground that are 5 times her size. I'd imagine that even the slightest brush off from this guy would put most people down for the count. Not an excuse - but something to consider when doling out such a harsh punishment.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by garyv View Post

      Not to defend this guy's behavior - but he may not have meant for his reaction to be so severe. He spends his entire day pushing and knocking guys to the ground that are 5 times her size. I'd imagine that even the slightest brush off from this guy would put most people down for the count. Not an excuse - but something to consider when doling out such a harsh punishment.

      Well, the first time I saw this video, it started late, and it looked like he just knocked her out, and when they got to the floor, he wanted 90% of her body to be outside of the elevator for some reason. I mean in retrospect, just on THAT, WHAT WAS HE THINKING!?!?!? Later, I saw the whole thing in the elevator, and it looks like he hit her relatively lightly, and she got knocked out after charging him in response. It could have been reflex.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Young Financier
    Gotta love the hypocrisy in this thread.It's funny how some groups claim equality when it's beneficial but then go back to claiming to be inferior when that role is beneficial. Pick either one or the other and stay there. You can't be equal only when it benefits you, then jump back to being inferior when equality shows it's downsides. Be equal for real in every respect if equality is what you claim to be truly after. How these groups get away with flop flopping? I have no clue. But it's no secret that these groups are not after equality. The title of equality is a disguise for their real intentions, which is superiority. That being said....a man is a coward if he hits a woman for putting her hands on him, but the woman isn't a coward for putting her hands on someone and then hiding behind her gender in order to escape the consequences of her actions? LOL. This society in which we live...there is definitely a war against men taking place.
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    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by Young Financier View Post

      Gotta love the hypocrisy in this thread.It's funny how some groups claim equality when it's beneficial but then go back to claiming to be inferior when that role is beneficial. Pick either one or the other and stay there. You can't be equal only when it benefits you, then jump back to being inferior when equality shows it's downsides. Be equal for real in every respect if equality is what you claim to be truly after. How these groups get away with flop flopping? I have no clue. But it's no secret that these groups are not after equality. The title of equality is a disguise for their real intentions, which is superiority.

      That being said....a man is a coward if he hits a woman for putting her hands on him, but the woman isn't a coward for putting her hands on someone and then hiding behind her gender in order to escape the consequences of her actions? LOL. This society in which we live...there is definitely a war against men taking place.
      Maybe its a counter and/or a defensive war.

      Anyways, here are some of your people who feel the same way as you do.

      Men's Rights :: Advocating for the social and legal equality of men and boys since 2008
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  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    He would have been better off if he was a rich well-connected judge:
    NFL's Ray Rice Loses Job for Knocking Out Wife, Federal Judge Mark Fuller Keeps Lifetime Appointment After Beating Wife Bloody
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    AP reports police claim they gave inside elevator video to an NFL exec back in April...
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    • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
      Banned
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      AP reports police claim they gave inside elevator video to an NFL exec back in April...
      Yeah, I saw that. Roger and his merry men are not looking good on this one.

      Cheers

      -don
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Inasmuch as she's choosing to stay, I hope it's the first time and last time he ever does such a thing.
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  • Profile picture of the author Adie
    Coward and idiot married together.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      We have seen a minute of video.

      Isn't it possible that she lunged at him in anger, he popped her in the chin...knocked her out...and it was a reflex?

      They knew each other pretty well. Isn't it possible that he's not violent, has never hit her (or any woman) before, and she just forgave him?
      Isn't it possible that he would never do it again?

      Isn't there a difference between what he did, and guys that beat their wives?

      It isn't like he shook her, hit her a few times, and then threw her to the ground.

      I've known guys that beat their wives. I see no evidence of that here. His reaction after she laid there was a little strange. But it was only about a minute. Who knows what he was thinking.

      I'm not saying he doesn't beat her up regularly, but one reflexive defensive punch isn't a pattern.

      Maybe they will live happily ever after. Maybe they were a little drunk, she blew up, he reacted......

      Did she have to go to the hospital? Was anything broken? He was twice her size, a vicious punch would have crippled her. A light pop in the chin will knock someone out for several seconds. Stupid? Absolutely. But a reflexive reaction isn't a pattern of abuse.

      Should he lose his job over this?

      Maybe the wife isn't in denial. Maybe he really isn't a bad guy. Maybe it was a one time reflexive moment, and she forgives him.

      I already know the reaction this will get.



      But seriously, the accomplice in the hall set the hole thing up. He should get prison time.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        His reaction after she laid there was a little strange.
        Dragging her like a sack of flour and nudging her into position with his foot didn't look to me like a caring, loving husband concerned with his soon-to-be wife's welfare.

        All of your maybes are possible. I guess even confirmed wife beaters deserve second chances.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

          Dragging her like a sack of flour and nudging her into position with his foot didn't look to me like a caring, loving husband concerned with his soon-to-be wife's welfare.

          All of your maybes are possible. I guess even confirmed wife beaters deserve second chances.
          Did he hit her before? If he did, then that's a pattern of abuse.

          His reaction was really the main thing I thought was strange. Probably the most damning part.
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          • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            Did he hit her before? If he did, then that's a pattern of abuse.

            His reaction was really the main thing I thought was strange. Probably the most damning part.
            We have different definitions of "wife beater." You require a pattern of abuse. I see a guy beat his wife and put the two words together. You beat up your wife once, you're a wife beater, at least in my book. I don't think it requires a touchy feely "let's wait and see" analysis to come to the conclusion.

            If someone murders someone, do we require a second murder to confirm the person is a murderer?

            I do agree that his response after the fact was strange. I believe it also sealed my opinion on the matter. If he had shown more of an "oh shit, what did I just do!?" response, I probably wouldn't feel as strongly and be more willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

              If someone murders someone, do we require a second murder to confirm the person is a murderer?
              I get it. No, if someone murders, they are a murderer. But there is a difference between murder, second degree murder, manslaughter...they don't get the same punishment.



              Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

              I do agree that his response after the fact was strange. I believe it also sealed my opinion on the matter. If he had shown more of an "oh shit, what did I just do!?" response, I probably wouldn't feel as strongly and be more willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
              Agreed. I think most people would feel the same way.
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          • Profile picture of the author ThomM
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            Did he hit her before? If he did, then that's a pattern of abuse.

            His reaction was really the main thing I thought was strange. Probably the most damning part.
            Claude I haven't been following this case and this is the first I looked at even a couple of posts in this thread, so if I sound relatively clueless, I am
            But I happened to hear on the news today that just before this incident they where drinking heavily. Also that this was a one time deal and not constant abuse.
            Makes me wonder if being drunk (on both of them) wasn't the real problem here. People will do bad things that are out of character when drunk.

            Gotta love the hypocrisy in this thread.It's funny how some groups claim equality when it's beneficial but then go back to claiming to be inferior when that role is beneficial.
            A man does not have a right to assault another man or a woman. So equal rights doesn't even come close to being an issue here.
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

              Claude I haven't been following this case and this is the first I looked at even a couple of posts in this thread, so if I sound relatively clueless, I am
              But I happened to hear on the news today that just before this incident they where drinking heavily. Also that this was a one time deal and not constant abuse.
              Makes me wonder if being drunk (on both of them) wasn't the real problem here. People will do bad things that are out of character when drunk.
              People react to large amounts of alcohol in different ways. Some are nice guys, but very mean drunks. Some get emotional and cry over anything. Some are quiet. Some become very loud. Some get vindictive.

              But alcohol deadens the rational part of your brain. It probably played a major part.
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              • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                People react to large amounts of alcohol in different ways. Some are nice guys, but very mean drunks. Some get emotional and cry over anything. Some are quiet. Some become very loud. Some get vindictive.

                But alcohol deadens the rational part of your brain. It probably played a major part.
                If you watch the clip where they approach and and enter the elevator, neither of them look as if they had been drinking, at all. Their gait is rock steady. Just one more way they are trying to sell this to the public.

                I ain't buying.

                Cheers. - Frank
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                • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                  If you watch the clip where they approach and and enter the elevator, neither of them look as if they had been drinking, at all. Their gait is rock steady. Just one more way they are trying to sell this to the public.

                  I ain't buying.

                  Cheers. - Frank
                  According to TMZ, Rice himself told the Ravens that they had been drinking heavily prior to the altercation.

                  Ray Rice says hard liquor was the fuel that triggered his elevator rage and he hasn't touched the stuff in months ... sources close to Rice tell TMZ Sports.

                  Rice told the Baltimore Ravens he and Janay Palmer had been drinking HEAVILY before the altercation. Rice is telling friends he becomes a different person when he boozes it up ... so he's changed his life.

                  Ray Rice -- I Blame Liquor for Elevator Attack ... And I've Sworn Off Hard Liquor | TMZ.com
                  Cheers

                  -don
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                  • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

                    According to TMZ, Rice himself told the Ravens that they had been drinking heavily prior to the altercation.
                    Right. Of course he'd say that as opposed to, "I have nothing to offer in the way of an explanation for my cruddy behavior."

                    Cheers. - Frank
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                • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                  Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                  If you watch the clip where they approach and and enter the elevator, neither of them look as if they had been drinking, at all. Their gait is rock steady. Just one more way they are trying to sell this to the public.

                  I ain't buying.

                  Cheers. - Frank
                  Only problem with that Frank is there where plenty of witnesses who saw him and her drinking heavily before the incident.
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                  • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                    Only problem with that Frank is there where plenty of witnesses who saw him and her drinking heavily before the incident.
                    Iced tea? Lemonade? Seltzer water? I'd need a sworn affidavit from the bartender, but that's how I roll. :-)

                    Cheers. - Frank
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              • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                People react to large amounts of alcohol in different ways. Some are nice guys, but very mean drunks. Some get emotional and cry over anything. Some are quiet. Some become very loud. Some get vindictive.

                But alcohol deadens the rational part of your brain. It probably played a major part.
                Like I said I haven't been really following all this, but when I heard they where both drunk that got me thinking a little.
                I have all sorts of friends that drink and they all react differently to the alcohol.
                I was somewhat of a crazy person when I drank.
                I'd like to say I was harmless, but that wasn't always the case. I could write a book on all the things I did drunk that I wouldn't even conceder doing sober.
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      • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        I already know the reaction this will get.
        You're certainly in a very forgiving mood, this morning. Please pass the bong.

        Cheers. - Frank
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      • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        We have seen a minute of video.

        Isn't it possible that she lunged at him in anger, he popped her in the chin...knocked her out...and it was a reflex?

        They knew each other pretty well. Isn't it possible that he's not violent, has never hit her (or any woman) before, and she just forgave him?
        Isn't it possible that he would never do it again?

        Isn't there a difference between what he did, and guys that beat their wives?

        It isn't like he shook her, hit her a few times, and then threw her to the ground.

        I've known guys that beat their wives. I see no evidence of that here. His reaction after she laid there was a little strange. But it was only about a minute. Who knows what he was thinking.

        I'm not saying he doesn't beat her up regularly, but one reflexive defensive punch isn't a pattern.

        Maybe they will live happily ever after. Maybe they were a little drunk, she blew up, he reacted......

        Did she have to go to the hospital? Was anything broken? He was twice her size, a vicious punch would have crippled her. A light pop in the chin will knock someone out for several seconds. Stupid? Absolutely. But a reflexive reaction isn't a pattern of abuse.

        Should he lose his job over this?

        Maybe the wife isn't in denial. Maybe he really isn't a bad guy. Maybe it was a one time reflexive moment, and she forgives him.

        I already know the reaction this will get.



        But seriously, the accomplice in the hall set the hole thing up. He should get prison time.
        Actually, Claude, I was thinking along the same lines.

        I used to listen to Dr. Laura a lot when I was a courier. As conservative as she is, her "rules" for divorce
        allow for it when there is abuse, addictions, or affairs.

        When it came to abuse; however, even she meant a pattern of abuse - not something that was a first, last and only event. And, I have to assume, she would not stand for a heinous pounding.

        I think she would also say that Ray would have to show deep remorse, regret and redress and never a repeat.

        The couple know each other and what's what and it is up to Janay.

        Dan
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

          I think she would also say that Ray would have to show deep remorse, regret and redress and never a repeat.

          The couple know each other and what's what and it is up to Janay.

          Dan
          I come from an ignorant and violent family (Not my Dad, but uncles, aunts, my mom)

          When I was a kid I watched guys beat their wives. Everyone knew it was coming. There was screaming, shoving, slapping, and maybe a punch. Usually the punch came last. And heaven help the wife, if she tried to defend herself.

          I know what a beating looks like. And nobody hates it more than someone who has seen it first hand.

          And they would always beg for forgiveness, promise never to do it again...and of course they did, because that what they were. These were bad men, and stupid women. That's the kind of guy they dated. Always. To the best of my knowledge, the men are all dead now. So there is that.

          I passed out once in front of my wife at home (I used to suffer from epilepsy). I woke up a few minutes later. She was standing there looking at me. I asked if she called 911 (so I could tell her there was no need). She said No.

          I asked if it scared her. She said "No. You were breathing, so I assumed you were OK".

          To me, that was a tad odd. But we all react in a different way.
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  • Profile picture of the author jgiacomini
    He should be in JAIL! Did you see the Spitting in her face twice!!
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Isn't it possible that she lunged at him in anger, he popped her in the chin...knocked her out...and it was a reflex?

      They knew each other pretty well. Isn't it possible that he's not violent, has never hit her (or any woman) before, and she just forgave him?
      Isn't it possible that he would never do it again?
      But if it were a reflex with a bad outcome - and he's not a routine abuser - and she isn't a gold digger - how the HELL can people post their strong opinions and pass judgment. That just wouldn't do.

      This case isn't over - some real questions about the actions of the Commissioner and why he passed judgement twice rather than do a full investigation the first time.

      I don't think a man should lose his career for a one time incident that left no permanent damage and lasted only a few seconds. How is it OK for a judge and not for a sports person?
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Originally Posted by jgiacomini View Post

      Did you see the Spitting in her face twice!!
      I only noticed the spitting for the first time last night when an extended better quality video was shown I hadn't seen before. It shows Ray Rice spitting into his wife's face outside the elevator and then doing the same thing inside. Janay Rice didn't provoke her husband by "lunging" at him. He was obviously provoking her by spitting right into her face twice.

      Some have said this punch may have been a split second reaction in self defense but I think the spitting and then the reaction afterwards makes this version hard to believe.

      Regarding whether it could have been a one time beating event and if Ray Rice would ever do this again, I would say it could possibly be the first and last time he has/would ever beat her. I had two close neighbor friends I knew for 30 years who are now deceased. One time the husband did hit his wife. She called the cops and he was arrested. He came home afterwards and they both went into counseling and they had a very good relationship for another 15 years until the husband died. It does happen.

      If I was Janay and this was the first time this has happened ( I have serious doubts about that, but it is possible ), I would only stay in the relationship if he stopped drinking and got some ongoing counseling.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        I only noticed the spitting for the first time last night when an extended better quality video was shown I hadn't seen before. It shows Ray Rice spitting into his wife's face outside the elevator and then doing the same thing inside. Janay Rice didn't provoke her husband by "lunging" at him. He was obviously provoking her by spitting right into her face twice.
        .
        Tim; I didn't see that. I'll take your word for it. That changes the dynamic.

        A man spitting in anyone's face? That's very odd.
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        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          Tim; I didn't see that. I'll take your word for it. That changes the dynamic.

          A man spitting in anyone's face? That's very odd.
          I tried finding the video but couldn't right away Claude. It was shown to the AP yesterday and I saw it in an interview on a news show. I read some reports that say she spit in his face but that isn't what I saw. It's pretty clear with his head motion that he is spitting. Yep, it does change the dynamic. This video also has some audio.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    His reaction was strange. I once had a girl chastise me because I did not jump up and down
    when I got news of my nephew being born. I was jumping up and down on the inside. My Dad
    seems impervious to physical pain. When Dad was having serious heart episodes, I suggested that they go ahead and give him some pain meds because he does not "show" pain. We all do react how we react.

    Again, up to Janay to decide about Ray's sincerity and level of remorse, conditions he must meet, whether he will repeat and the consequences if he does anything close, or does not meet all her conditions. Maybe this event scared them both straight and to learn to handle things better. I don't know what they were fighting about, what brought it on, how much had she been provoking him or vise-versa, if drugs or alcohol were involved...

    My ex-brother in law did one time severely beat my sister. According to my sister it was the only time he got physical with her in their 20 years. They were on the divorce path anyway. I never did forgive him and saw him one time after that - just at a family function so I had no real choice. But, I will say that because they were having marriage difficulties (or any other time), it was not a good idea for my sister to commiserate at a bar with a male co-worker.

    Long ago I did some volunteer work and we put on large, fun, athletic events as fundraisers. Several times about five or six Denver Broncos and their wives would participate. These women were usually very athletic themselves. There was this one pretty, petite 5 foot nothin' wife that could bench press about 250 or so. I'm saying that some athletes' wives are a match in terms of attitude and outlook with their husbands in physical and mental toughness.

    Of course this deal is a PR nightmare for the NFL. I now think they should have matched what the prosecutors did. Put him on probation for at least one year, maybe a 6 or 8 game suspension, require counseling, fines... and if he f's up during that period, then throw the whole book at him.

    Dan
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      Again, up to Janay to decide about Ray's sincerity and level of remorse, whether he will repeat and

      There was this one pretty, petite 5 foot nothin' wife that could bench press about 250 or so. I'm saying that some
      athletes' wives are a match with their husbands in physical and mental toughness.



      Dan
      I would say that is more the exception than the rule.

      Even if she could bench press 250 lbs that is still NOTHING compared to the average NFL player.
      Shoot, a majority of those guys can Curl that much.

      Plus, just the fact that these guys are so quick and use techniques to take down other 200- 350lb guys well............it would NEVER be a fair fight or even match.
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      • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
        Originally Posted by discrat View Post

        I would say that is more the exception than the rule.

        Even if she could bench press 250 lbs that is still NOTHING compared to the average NFL player.
        Shoot, a majority of those guys can Curl that much.

        Plus, just the fact that these guys are so quick and use techniques to take down other 200- 350lb guys well............it would NEVER be a fair fight or even match.
        I meant a match in attitude and physicality. Of course, not an exact match in strength and reaction time and ability to physically fight their much larger hubby.

        Athletic athlete's wives might be more willing to try to keep the marriage together than a less athletic woman.
        It's not easy to get where he got and she's been with him the whole time.

        Dan
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      Long ago I did some volunteer work and we put on large, fun, athletic events as fundraisers. Several times about five or six Denver Broncos and their wives would participate. These women were usually very athletic themselves. There was this one pretty, petite 5 foot nothin' wife that could bench press about 250 or so. I'm saying that some athletes' wives are a match with their husbands in physical and mental toughness.
      Dan; (I'm not used to talking to intelligent people named Dan)
      To me (just an opinion) the strength is pretty immaterial. I don't see much difference between hitting a 250 pound man, a slight woman, bigger man....it's all the same impulse. That's just an opinion.


      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      Of course this deal is a PR nightmare for the NFL. I now think they should have matched what the prosecutors did. Put him on probation for at least one year, maybe a 6 or 8 game suspension, require counseling, fines... and if he f's up during that period, then throw the whole book at him.

      Dan
      I don't think he should lose his job. If he were an insurance adjuster, would they fire him?

      On the other hand, the NFL has to let him go. It is a PR nightmare.

      Man..spitting in someone's face.....that's just weird. I may hit a person for that, more than them taking a swing. That's just visceral. Taking a swing at someone coming at you, may be a reflex. Spitting at someone isn't.
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    The Panthers owner breaks down while speaking on the domestic violence issue...


    The NFL has hired former FBI director Robert S. Mueller III to investigate the Rice issue and has tabbed Rooney and Mara to oversee the investigation. Many folks are saying Mueller may be a bit too close to the NFL to conduct an "independent" investigation.

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...rt-mueller-be/

    Cheers

    -don

    -don
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Wow, saw on News earlier where 16 woman Senators are sending letter to Goodall to push a Zero tolerance Rule that would say(paraphrase).... "Any NFL player who strikes a woman will not have a second chance to be reinstated in the NFL. "

      Now, Iam the first guy who will stand up for women and believe hitting a woman is intolerable.

      But legislation like this goes a little too far.

      For instance, what about hitting a 14 year old boy ? Since he is not a female I guess a NFL player could possibly get a second chance to be readmitted back into the league after beating up a 14 year old boy ?



      Or want if MMA champion Rhonda Rousey was brutality beating up an NFLplayer and he swung back and hit her ,then I guess he would be thrown out of the League permanently ?

      I just do not quite understand this! I mean I understand the premise and principle behind this zero tolerance bill these women Senators are pushing.

      But to have such chauvinistic overtones really seems warped and potentially it could have dangerous ramifications. ( Plus, it just demeans the Humanity of those outside the female population)

      I mean why dont these 16 women senators also include in that proposed bill "Any NFL player who strikes a woman, boy, girl, or any innocent civilian for that matter will not have a second chance to be reinstated in the NFL. "
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        The Senate has solved all the country's financial and other problems so now they are going to solve our social problems. How sweet.

        Since when is the NFL run by Congress? I must gave missed that legislation.
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    The Indianapolis Colts just donated $100K to domestic violence charities. Who’s next? - Salon.com


    49ers suspend announcer for calling Janay Rice pathetic:

    http://www.salon.com/2014/09/11/49er...rice_pathetic/



    "Support the Player and Be Quiet": What It's Like to Be an NFL Wife:

    A former Oakland Raiders spouse on the Rice scandal and the league’s culture of secrecy.

    http://www.motherjones.com/media/201...ball-nfl-wives
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  • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
    Banned
    What I found extremely sad was the huge numbers of women wearing his jersey at the game, last night. They were everywhere. That was pathetic.

    Cheers. - Frank
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    All I gotta say is what man knocks his lady out and then drags her only a couple of feet and parks her face down only partway off of the elevator? Good grief! I know I don't drink when I play poker, but If I were to place a wager on this unfortunate event I would bet that these two were not drinking Shirley Temples all night at the casino (or wherever else they may have been drinking).


    Cheers

    -don
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    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
      Banned
      Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

      All I gotta say is what man (sober or not) knocks his lady out and then drags her only a couple of feet and parks her face down half-way on the elevator?Cheers -don
      That's an easy one. 'Caveman.'

      Cheers. - Frank
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      • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
        Banned
        Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

        That's an easy one. 'Caveman.'

        Cheers. - Frank
        Or a drunk caveman... Or a drunk man... Or a semi-drunk man... Or a semi-drunk caveman.

        Cheers

        -don
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        • Profile picture of the author discrat
          Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

          Or a drunk caveman... Or a drunk man... Or a semi-drunk man... Or a semi-drunk caveman.

          Cheers

          -don
          Or a cowardly caveman
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        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
          Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

          Or a drunk caveman... Or a drunk man... Or a semi-drunk man... Or a semi-drunk caveman.

          Cheers

          -don
          The point is though, he isn't using it as an excuse to justify his actions. Instead he realized he did a very bad thing while under the influence of alcohol that he would not of done sober and quit drinking because of it. In a sense he's taking what he conceder's to be the proper action to correct his bad behavior.
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          • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
            Banned
            Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

            The point is though, he isn't using it as an excuse to justify his actions. Instead he realized he did a very bad thing while under the influence of alcohol that he would not of done sober and quit drinking because of it. In a sense he's taking what he conceder's to be the proper action to correct his bad behavior.
            Yeah, supposedly he and Janay got baptized about a month after the incident and Ray gave up the hard stuff. It has been reported that he still tips a glass of wine.

            I don't know how sincere he is and I doubt anyone else does either. I hope he is trying to be better man and not just trying to save his career. If he needs to give up drinking to keep himself inline then by all means that is what he needs to do.





            Cheers

            -don
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            • Profile picture of the author ThomM
              Yeah, supposedly he and Janay got baptized about a month after the incident and Ray gave up the hard stuff. It has been reported that he still tips a glass of wine.

              I don't know how sincere he is and I doubt anyone else does either. I hope he is trying to be better man and not just trying to save his career. If he needs to give up drinking to keep himself inline then by all means that is what he needs to do.
              That's my thoughts on it.
              But I've got no problem with taking him at his word. If he screws up again, it's on him. If he doesn't, that's also on him.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    An allegedly drunk caveman.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    If Ray Rice wanted to beat women without any consequences he should have become a cop.
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    Sal
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