Imagine...

by 199 replies
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Imagine, 6 years ago when I first came to this forum, I had acted responsibly. Didn't act like a horses ass, was helpful to other members, made friends in the industry, kept up with the Google changes and adjusted accordingly.

Imagine that 8 years later I was somebody who people respected and wanted to help in the event that things had gone sour anyway.

Today, hanging onto the last glimmer of hope that I had, a gentleman who I was hoping to JV with in creating synth patches told me flat out that my work wasn't good enough to sell on his site. This after putting every ounce of my heart and soul into making these the best synth patches I could.

My dance exercise package was ill conceived from the get go. I really didn't know who my target market was and still don't.

My royalty free site, also a disaster. I've been told by many people that my music is horrible and laughable that I would expect people to pay for it or to pay me to do custom work for them. And so far, after 8 1/2 months of that site being online, with more than 5,000 tracks, I've made all of $4.

I can only think, when Suzanne reminded me of how I jumped all over a member here for PM'ing me, because I was too good and high and mighty for anybody to PM me, even though all he wanted to do was talk about my music, that maybe this is all my bad karma coming back to bite me because these past 14 months I have spent more money on my "business" (over 10 grand) and have worked harder than ever in my life, even when I was making money hand over fist, and have close to nothing to show for it.

And all of this could have been avoided by doing nothing more but being a decent human being and not be nasty to people just because they didn't agree with something I said or did and criticized me for it.

Had I done that one simple thing, you don't think I'd have a ton of Warriors rallying around me to help me out?

It's almost like I wanted to fail and by alienating everybody around me, that's exactly what would happen.

Yep, a real self fulfilling prophesy.

Right now, I don't have one solid business model. But I sure as hell better find one. And it's obvious by now that I can't rely on my musical skill to get one. As much as I enjoy it, I'm just not good enough at any one aspect of it.

I'm honestly more lost now than I've been since 2003 when I first started online and didn't have a clue. In 4 months I made all of $28 from taking online surveys. Finally in May of that year I stumbled onto something. It was dumb luck, that's all. Nothing to do with smarts. Because if I had smarts, real smarts, I wouldn't be where I am today...broke, desperate and scared shitless.

I don't have a mom to turn to anymore and my dad walked out on me 51 years ago. My wife supports the hell out of me but that can only take me so far. She can't do the work for me. She has her own headaches with he teaching job, which thank God is her last year and then she's retiring.

I have no idea what my future looks like but I do know this much.

It's brighter than the poor Illinois news anchor who announced on the air that he has a brain tumor and has 4 to 6 months to live.

That report put things into perspective for me and made me realize that, relatively speaking, I have no problems.

I'm not looking for sympathy and I'm sure not looking for help in building a business as I've burned almost every bridge that I built here. I thank the few who have still stuck by me, though quite honestly, I don't deserve it. I have acted badly, especially lately.

But if it's any consolation to those of you who have literally wished I'd leave this forum and never come back, it's all coming back to bite me on the ass. Everyone I have contacted for help in establishing some kind of business venture has either not responded or told me that they can't help me. Today's disappointment shouldn't have come as any surprise. And this was a guy who didn't know me, didn't know I could be a jackass and simply said no because my work wasn't good enough.

On Monday I'm going to look at my to-do list and see what I can salvage.

Anyway, that's it.

Yeah, karma is a real bitch.

Imagine if I didn't have to worry about it.
#off topic forum
  • Banned
    Steven, I think you are better off showing people through actions. You keep saying the same stuff but end up falling into the same routines.

    Just some helpful advice.
    • [1] reply
    • Know what Thomas? I'm obviously not capable of doing that because I keep doing the same shit over and over for 8 years now. So maybe I need professional help as others have suggested and some flat out saying it.
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  • Banned
    Ok ... the music fell through. You were successful in the IM industry and could be again, probably easily if you just tweak your model to get around the pounding that you got from Google. Others have made adjustments. You can too. You have thousands of articles that are pretty much worthless on Ezine. I checked some of them out for duplication and found that there were a good number out of the ones I checked that hadn't been duplicated. Takes those off ezine and put them to use elsewhere, whether it's making PLR packages or using them on a blog in the same way you used them on Ezine.

    I don't know enough about your music to advise you there, but if it's not what people want, I don't know if you can make it what people want. But people always want content. Your Niche Revolution was a good idea. Revamp that. Do several things. One basket is very high risk.
  • Hey Steve, take a deep breath. It sounds to me like you need to do some marketing. Maybe back off a bit on the creativity end and get some solid chops on the marketing end and learn about ways to use social media, blogs, free traffic, etc.

    One or even a few prospective customers do not make or define the market. Everyone has different tastes and some will love your stuff while others will not. You can't please everyone and should not permit that feedback to define what you can or can't do.

    On the other hand, if you need a break, get a part-time W-2 job while you learn marketing and continue part-time with what you love doing creating. It could give you a new perspective and some breathing room.
  • The internet is a fast moving place. You literally have to throw hands full of spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks. Spending too much time on one concept only to have it fail can be demoralizing and debilitating. Don't let this punch in the gut keep you from trying new things. You can still literally turn it all around over night if you hit on the right niche at the right time. But if you decide to spend a lot of time on one project again, maybe try and break away an hour or two per day to try new things. Many times the things that will make me the most money are those that I think are the least likely to succeed. You do have to know when to cut your losses and move on though.
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    • Gary, that's just it. I haven't been working on just one thing. Since July of last year, I have worked on the following major projects, all of them failing or being ill conceived from the get go.

      1) Royalty Free Music Site - I spent $10,000 on hardware and software. Hired a web designer to build my site. Created 5,000 plus tracks for the site. Put up a link for custom work. Put up a link to a newsletter to get updates.

      To date, have made $4 and have no subscribers. The site is a total disaster.

      2) Synth Patch Creation - Relatively new but so far being discouraged at every turn. In a nutshell, my patches are not "current." I'm stuck in the 80s and nobody wants those sounds anymore and I honestly don't relate to the "new" music. I'll keep at this though. I think I can find a market. But so far, no luck.

      3) Easy Sketch Pro Business - Have contacted the creator of the software to try to work out something together. So far, no response.

      4) Exercise Dance Package - This was my ill conceived idea as I really had no idea who I was targeting. I've been given excellent advice from Rick Duris on how to "possibly" salvage this but that's going to take months of research to find a market and won't give me an income for some time.

      So as you can see, I've tried a lot of different things in the last 14 months. I'm back to working 14 hour days. In fact, I've been working harder these past 14 months than in the 8 years prior.

      Point is, this hasn't been a problem with putting all my eggs into one basket. Everything I've tried has, so far anyway, produced no results.
  • Steve,

    You obviously seem to think writing articles for money is beneath you, or at the very least you don't want to trade time for money.

    Why don't you build an agency, so put in the man hours now and start hiring people when you're making decent money?

    Then you can be the puppet master.

    I would forget about music and stick to it as a hobby. I know people who've been in the game for decades as popular DJs in a big city and they still work in coffee shops during the day.

    Start from the ground up instead of trying to build the roof without the foundations in place.

    This is actually a very good article that might help with your marketing - How to Write Blog Posts That Generate Leads

  • If it's a "total disaster", then you have nothing to lose. Take 10% of your songs (500") and make them free and add Adsense to the pages. The site should have been set up in a way you could turn it "inside out", which is an old SEO term that means being able to create search engine readable pages from a database. Still a very powerful strategy. But the problem is, few web designers understand advanced SEO techniques.


    Next, take the remaining 4500 songs and put them in a private membership site "All you can download for $17": Offer affiliates 100% and use it to build a list. These people will be interested in anything video related. And at 100% commisions, you will be much more likely to get affiliates.

    You can also exploit retargeting on the site and try some ads for video related affiliate programs.




    Forget about it. You don't have the skills or talent to sell videos. You will never sell videos based on the examples in your sig, or what I saw of your video work. Move on.

    I can't make music and you can't make videos. No big deal.



    Actually, this was my idea, and it's a solid one. However, it's dependant on many things, such as your sales letter, if people like your songs, etc.

    As far as taking months to find a market, that's BS. As I pointed out in your last thread, you can go to Facebook and place an ad and reach your potential market in an hour or two. However, this is still dependant on your ability to write a FB ad, send people to your sales page and then have customers that like your music.

    Reaching your target audience is easy. In FB, simply target "women that live in California, between 35-50 and like aerobics". You can easily test different demographics. You said you have $60, that's enough for 12 marketing tests of different demographics at $5. Of course, you should spend a week learning all you can about FB ads before trying FB.

    If you can't sell it, give it away in exchange for their email address, then offer articles, info and affiliate offers to your list(s). But at least try.

    You've spent months and months on creating a product, put in little effort actually marketing it.


    You can go to any of the article sites like TextBroker and make a little money if desperate, at least enough to raise a few $100 to help pay for things needed for other marketing.

    If you have Camtasia, you can make "how to" videos for all the music software you purchased. You can upload these to Youtube and/or Udemy. I believe I read somewhere that 90% of the courses uploaded to Udemy made at least a little money.

    If you don't have Camtasia, you can use the free version of Active Presenter...It's almost as good as Camtasia. Or, Camtasia has a free 30 day trial.
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  • Where did you buy $10,000 worth of music equipment?

    If it was a website you might have an advantage over everyone else who tries to throw up affiliate stores.

    Build a store with the products you think will sell and add affiliate links to them.

    You can add sample tracks to your product descriptions to stand out from the crowd who throw up sites without knowing anything about music. Add some videos teaching them how to use the products too and they'll be more likely to buy when they click through your affiliate links

    That way you're still involved in music, you can still make up songs, you can teach people, but you'll be selling physical products people actually buy.

    How long will it take you to set something like this up? A few days if you use WooCommerce and a cheap Ecommerce theme. Maybe a little longer if you make videos.

    How long will it take to validate your idea? Not long if you bang out lots of guest posts on particular blogs and join appropriate forums.

    You don't need to make a million straight away, but if you make some sales within a few weeks you can always scale up. Plus with music there is lots of extras to go along with the actual products (which are probably very expensive).

    That could be your two week plan of action. Sounds like it ticks all the boxes to me and a quick way to validate your idea.

    Still write articles if you need money though.

    Then once you build up decent income move onto dropshipping, Amazon fulfillment, manufacturing your own products? The world is your oyster.
  • Banned
    All those mp3 files in your WP upload folder can easily be downloaded. I've already suggested a few months back in another forum thread you need to do like audiojungle & brand those sample files. If your giving away the files for free it doesn't make any sense to complain about not having sales.

    The site is kind of confusing, there's no need for the splash page on the Home page URL, your forcing traffic to guess what they should do next.

    Do you even know who your target traffic is? Ask yourself why would someone need/buy your product.

    If it was my site I would have went to audiojungle & sorted the pages by highest sales volume, then focused on similar files on my own site. Your most likely spreading yourself too thin on files that don't have traffic.

    BTW, audiojungle best sellers are mostly movie trailer type audio, which can bring in $50,000+ per sales page.

    After reading some of this thread it looks like you've given up & looking for the next thing.
    • [1] reply

    • Quite a statement, l know that it takes guts to write something like that, on this forum! After the con-artist scam l recently went through; and yes, financially l am at rock bottom, but slowly digging my way out!

      So l commend you on laying your cards on the table!

      Just like you l don't have much money to throw around, but l do have two good ideas, to pursue.

      Fiverr and Graphicriver, are the ones l am developing!

      Fiverr is showing some results, so it looks promising, but eventhough doing a lot of gigs, for your efforts, is profitable, for me doing a graphics gig, for about $2.50 and hour to $3, is really slave labour levels.

      So, l am moving more into the get $4 send the product!

      So, it can make you some extra cash, but working like a dog, for an indefinate period, is a two edged sword.

      Some manage to get around this, by offering PLR products or gigs that are quick to do.

      But there is no harm in taking a look, might give you some ideas?

      Remember Fiverr is 3 years old, so just like Adwords was when it was just starting, there are opportunities on Fiverr!

      Graphicfiver is more like create a product, have an uphill battle getting it accepted, at least initially then forget about it, and make some money. The reason l mention this is they also sell music tracks, down the bottom of their home page!


      Don't overlook something you haven't tried before, there could be an opportunity there!

      Best of luck!

      Shane
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • Banned
    That puts your problems (and probably mine ) into some perspective.

    I know nothing (but nothing!) about your music niche and can never comment about it at all, really, which is why I'm so quiet in your threads, guilty though I always feel about that.

    But I also know plenty of people without your writing skills who are making money through writing. (And so do you.) I am - literally - "just saying".

    I have no idea whether it's either a helpful or even a sensible suggestion, but this little Kindle book was published a few months ago by a guy without your writing skills who can very easily make a couple of thousand per month just writing at Constant-Content, Steven, and I myself know other people doing something similar (who would happily help you, if I just ask them to!): The Freelance Writer's Guide to Making Money on Constant-Content.com - Kindle edition by Kevin Casey. Reference Kindle eBooks @ Amazon.com.

    .
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    • [2] replies
    • Okay, I just came up with what I think might be a viable idea. Granted, it's only going to appeal to a small segment of the population looking for royalty free music but it just might bring me in some income.

      Hear me out.

      The 150 tracks that I created for the dance exercise package.

      Rewrite the sales page for the royalty free music niche.

      Take the samples and put them up on my royalty free site for instant download. All 150. Each sample is only 30 seconds. Then tell them if they want the full extended tracks for these (3 minutes in length and over) they can purchase them HERE and give them the link to my new sales page.

      Then take that SAME concept and do it for every genre on my royalty free site.

      Acoustic
      Classical
      Country
      Electronic
      Ethnic
      Jazz
      Latin
      Metal
      Orchestral
      Pop
      Psychedelic
      R&B
      Rock

      I'll look to see what my most played tracks are and start with those genres.

      I'm already getting a steady 500 plus visitors each month and about 100 downloads.

      Even if I just convert at 2%, that's about $60 a month to start until the traffic grows.

      It's about a year and a half of writing and recording music to complete the whole site.

      If I wasn't getting traffic and downloads I wouldn't even consider it. But given that I have some traffic and some people actually like my music (there is no accounting for taste) I think I have a chance to sell some of these packages.
      • [1] reply
    • Steven,

      Your definition of "desperate" and my definition seems to have two different meanings.

      Right now, you can go to Textbroker.com and Constant Content (as Alexa pointed out) and make $12-15 per hour. If you don't know about a subject, Google is your friend.

      Grammar is the most important thing at these sites...I think you can handle it. The biggest problem will be there isn't always work. But there's more than enough jobs where you can average $20-30 a day.


      Take part of your earnings and invest in some Facebook advertising. It amazes me that you have spent $10,000 on software and hardware, but budgeted ZERO for marketing. What kind of business plan is that?

      At least give the exercise music a chance to fail. You're not even giving it a chance. Budget $300-500 of the money you make from writing articles for FB PPC.

      Worse case scenario is, if you can't sell the music, give it away in exchange for an email address. At least you willl have learned about FB advertising and may be able to sell other products. And FB ads will let you test your offer very quickly.

      In addition to writing for Constant Content and Text Brokers, do as suggested above and offer writing services at the Warrior Forum and sites like Freelancers, as well as some PLR packages. Again, if you don't know about a topic, Google is still your friend.

      There's no reason why you can't make $25 a day in a couple of hours writing and selling articles, starting right now.

      And please stop all these "woe is me" threads, and telling us what you can't do. If you can't do IM or write for others, get a job.
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  • [DELETED]
  • Steven,

    For what its worth, I think your music is great. I think its safe to say if I like it, then others would as well. Out of curiosity, what do you think of your music?

    The way your site was designed made it vulnerable to leakages and that is a pity. Oh well, here and now. You're obviously an extremely smart guy and I don't say that to anyone unless I mean it. I believe that you'll find solutions...and rock.
  • We have something in common, Steve.

    I'm pretty handy with the violin:



    Someone with no expertise + wants to be an assistant = affiliate marketer.

    Alexa has basically said she will help you, so PM her and ask for affiliate marketing advice.

    (Edit - I'm not implying every affiliate marketer doesn't have any expertise, just commenting on what Steve said.)
    • [2] replies
    • Yeah, affiliate marketing is an option too. I was actually a very good affiliate marketer before I started creating my own products. Came in 19th in the on affiliate contest I was in against the biggest affiliate marketers on the Internet. That was a long time ago. I haven't done affiliate marketing in 8 years.

      But here is what I do remember from it and I'm sure things haven't changed much.

      To compete with all the affiliates that are out there for any given product worth promoting, you have to do the following:

      1) Get the product and use it. That sometimes means having to buy it as a lot of vendors won't give you a product just because you tell them you want to promote it.

      2) Create lots of content for the product itself in the form of reviews, including test and videos.

      3) Write lots of articles about the problem that the product solves and get them circulated around the Internet. No link to the product in the article itself but only to your list where you give them more info.

      4) Write up a complete autoresponder series of no less than 7 followups in order to eventually close the deal and sell the product.

      5) Offer bonuses to your prospects if they buy from you so that they have incentive to purchase from you and not somebody else.

      That's what worked 8 years ago. I'm going to assume that you need to do at least that much if not more today.

      Have I pretty much hit the nail on the head?

      Now, why did I stop doing affiliate marketing?

      Simple, with all that work, and it was a ton, I never made more than $1,500 a month from it.

      That same amount of work, when creating my own products, produced 5 times the income and more.

      Granted, affiliate marketing will still beat what I'm earning now (which is nothing) but as an experienced affiliate marketer I know what's involved and maybe even more than that today. The Internet has become incredibly competitive and many avenues of promotion that worked 8 years ago don't work today. So I would also need to add to the above list researching current methods of promoting products as an affiliate.

      I am not ruling it out (I'm not ruling anything out at this point) but I am also considering it understanding what's most likely involved.
    • Not among the elite? You are not among the PAID.

      You have a great hobby that you love and have skills for. You do not have a commercially viable music career. Professionals have been telling you that and you don't take it seriously.

      If you want to write for pay - you don't need to analyze it with 1,2,3 list after list. You write about writing....but in the end you don't want to write. Ok - Decide you will not be a freelance writer and drop it.

      If what you love is spending all day making digital music - do it. If you need money - spend half your day doing something that pays and he rest of the day playing music. Working a job 2 days a week at minimum wage would be more than $400 a month - so would writing 10-12 articles per week.

      You haven't hit bottom yet - or you'd know you do whatever you HAVE to do to survive. No matter what you say - you aren't there yet.
      • [ 3 ] Thanks
      • [1] reply
  • PS...Here's the diffence between writing for Text Brokers and selling on the WF. If you write an article for TB, you are guaranteed of getting paid.

    On the other hand, placing an ad on the WF has the potential to pay more for your efforts.

    However, it isn't "either/or", it's BOTH. What's there to think about?

    In the time you've spent writing on this thread could have made you $20-30 on TextBrokers.
    • [ 3 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • Okay, my Constant Content account has been deleted so I have to sign up again.

      I see I have to choose a pen name. They say use a professional sounding name. Should I use my real name or do you think it would be better to come up with a name that sounds more like a "writers" name?

      Opinions?
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  • Good thread. Doesn't seem like it would be that hard to make money if you can find the right audience. Seem like some tough products to be trying to make money with though. I would say stick with what worked before & if you are a good writer whip up a blog & put some good articles on there in order to get traffic to them plus adsense & amazon ads. I saw that you have over 17K posts & that truly makes you a veteran warrior I would say. I would be happy with a 10th of that one day but it's nice to see that you can still get help if you need it & it's never too late to start over.
  • Another idea. Use some of your old EZA articles that haven't been indexed yet and have "how to" information in them, touch them up and sell them as Kindle books. Sell them cheap and use them as lead magnets to send people back to your site and sign up to your list, buy offers that you have there, etc.

    Just a thought.
  • One more question...do they accept original recordings of public domain music?

    For example, will they let you record the Bach song that's used in all the horror movies?

    Bach, Toccata and Fugue in D minor, organ - YouTube
    (BTW, this Bach Youtube video has over 22 MILLION views...)

    A quick search shows Audio Jungle does have Bach songs...They don't have big sales numbers, but they may not be marketed correctly. I'd use "horror" keywords for the Bach song I posted above...

    Instead of always being original, maybe there's some songs in the public domain you can do too?
  • Are you planning to offer a package of royalty free songs as a WSO? You could use JVZoo and offer a nice commission. I've noticed that suchlike like packages actually sold pretty well on JVZoo. I'd buy it.
    • [2] replies
    • Here's an obvious suggestion, but easy to overlook during the frenzy of creation - do yourself a favor and go for quality over quantity.
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    • I have seen a couple of royalty free WSOs posted here. Judging by the number of views they don't appear to be big sellers but yeah, it's certainly worth giving it a shot. But I would need to come up with a decent quantity of really good material (Audio Jungle quality) in order to make it appealing enough. What I have right now, if I'm totally honest with myself, isn't going to cut it.

      But yes, this is something I will definitely consider for the future.
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  • Um...Steve? I've been reading through here and see that you have one major problem that isn't gonna solve itself. You have a lot of options - and you CAN take some of them easy enough - you just don't want to and that's the all and everything of it.

    You're burned out. Doesn't matter what you're good at or aren't because you're burned. Get the hell out of the house and go do some nature immersion. Not sure what your natural habitats are near you but - get out into some trees or onto some beaches. Get some sun on that probably pasty grey skin of yours and do some walking barefoot on the grass and sand. Forget that you are an adult for awhile, forget that you need to support yourself and just go get a change of scenery - and a rest. Get away from your house, your family, your church, town -- everything familiar - ditch it and for a week or so just enjoy being where you are when you are there and don't think about anything else but your present surroundings.

    After a break, start thinking of things and of contacts you have that might be interested in doing something together or might need your skills. Maybe you can get to some open local mic nights and talk to the performers - find out what works for them or where they fall short on what they need to get ahead. Maybe you have some equipment that they can't afford and would kill to rent. etc. etc. etc.

    There's all sorts of stuff to do, angles to pursue -- but you're not going to make it at any of them until you solve the burn-out problem. Serious.
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  • Hi Steve,

    I don't wish to fan the flames of all the above valuable suggestions all sound great to get into action now and to keep moving.

    But have you thought of combining your passion with your skill? What I mean is writing music reviews or guest posting on music sites. For example Slicethepie.com accepts paid reviews they also have a track listening thing before writing. I'm told the longer the better your review and there is a variety of music; you can probably very quickly get up to speed on what is modern/current with music.

    I don't know if that appeals to you Steve or gets your enthusiasm for writing going. Mixing the plr for a variety of topics with a timeout to do something you really like writing about music and get paid for it all.

    Just a thought.

    Keren
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  • Banned
    From what I've seen you've literally done a 360 & right back where you started (articles, music, articles). If my calculations are correct you'll be back at music in 6 months.

    I'm not about to read the full 3 pages in this thread but the part I did read didn't mention you having any targeted traffic. Without targeted traffic none of this other stuff matters.
  • Are you serious with that WFH thread?

    ... it is like you are trying to fail on purpose. You will be lucky to even have people read whatever that disaster is that you call a "sales pitch."
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    • Banned
      lol. It's the worst I've ever seen and I've read quite a few. This is supposed to be a plus for hiring Steve:

      And if you want to see how serious he is about making bucks writing

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  • This is just like the WSO thread offer he put up. It's almost like he did it to shut people up that were trying to help him by saying "see I put it up and no one bought so now go away so I can do what I want to."

    He didn't do any marketing and in fact while the WSO was up he was downing the forum and almost everyone associated with it. You think a potential buyer that was doing his or her due diligence by looking at past posts would be impressed enough to buy that WSO or now this offer?

    I think in the end the only one with any sane thinking about this whole deal is Gordon.

    Mark
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  • I agree with Sal about going into nature and "going into the silence".
    Take a break and let the answers come instead of trying to force things and rush
    into this and that. That said, I do have some ideas to throw your way and don't care
    if you do them or not.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    There is a lot to be said for positioning and getting the more sophisticated client(s) who
    actually have money.

    Whilst there are a lot of bargain hunters here and other places, there are some people
    who will pay decent to high for quality services such as writing for web content and articles.
    You don't need that many clients, really, to get to your $600 minimum. I had one offline
    project that paid $1200 for about a month of part-time work. It was writing web content
    for an authority type site in an industry I used to work in. (I saw their post on Craigslist
    in the gigs section - computer , not writing. So you have to check both or all gigs sections.)

    There is one successful offline consultant who wrote a post about advertising on Craigslist
    at the 5 or 10 k for web design and IM services. It worked. It set him above the competition.
    It landed him clients who knew they needed to spend more than the $99 to $499 website stuff
    to get the marketing results they desired. He does have the chops and the professional marketing
    collateral/website/internet presence to match.

    I've posted before about how I have no skill for the music industry - I saw "The Fray" play in a
    small venue where I worked and thought they were so-so. The sound man, who in his day was
    in a band fairly popular all over Europe, thought otherwise. About two years later "The Fray" was
    selling out Red Rocks and other large venues for two to three nights in a row. lol

    Anyway, I have no idea about the quality of your music and even if I did have an idea, it would
    not be worth much. lol But, you do seem to know and love music, so how about - for one of a
    few long term plans -working on your own authority site about the music genres you like or
    love - at least like - and monetizing by ads and affiliate programs for most things music related.
    From local studios and instructors to instruments and retailers and downloads...

    Good luck.

    Dan

    Perhaps work mostly from home for an offline marketing agency as an employee or contactor?
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • In fairness, it looks like Steven took our advice and modified his sales letter. I think there may be hope yet.
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    • Banned
      Much better. The thing about the WFH thread is that the majority really do price shop. I always put my prices right out there so they don't have to guess. If you make people contact you without them knowing a ballpark figure, they may just leave because there is plenty of competition there.

      I know different writing assignments will fetch different prices, but he should work up a list of say articles: 500 word, 1000 words and give the pricing for that and let them ask about other types of writing assignments. An idea of turnaround time is important to buyers also. Now that he's gotten rid of the extreme stuff, there's room for a bit more hype and details.
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  • When I read every post in such a long thread I feel it is my duty reply and say something. My 1st day back on WF I suggested the warrior for hire section for Steven and From the last few posts seems one has been opened ... ( Where is it how do I find it)

    Steve please put your warrior for hire thread in your signature, I used to help Cathy write $10 per 500 word articles and we worked really hard with a fraction of your writing talent and never ever were without work So charge $20 per 500 words for niches you have experience in and $12 for other niches.

    Suzanne I feel your frustration and you have said some thing I was thinking ... however as someone who has ridden the depression vortex all the way to the bottom, Steven you are depressed with good reason. But these replies form people must help you feel better and being paid for article work will be small victories that very quickly can help you.

    Good luck sir and please put the WFH thread link in your signature .
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    • Okay, I am totally confused and I really need help now.

      I was approved by TextBrokers. I am writing my first article on Doctor Who, They want a sci fi related article on a movie or TV show. I understand that. Not a problem.

      In the instructions, it says this.

      The URL I was given is to a music site that has nothing to do with sci fi.

      If I'm understanding the above instructions correctly, I'm supposed to use the URL they give me as anchor text in a line that says "According to <link goes here> Doctor Who..." etc.

      At least that's my understanding.

      But honestly, these instructions don't make any sense.

      If somebody has ever written for them and knows how this works, I'd be really grateful for some help on this as I am totally lost.

      And yes Kurt, talk about jumping through hoops.

      After clicking on the link just to view what the assignment was about, I was then given 9 minutes to accept it. That's it. 9 minutes.

      Well, I'm going to start writing the article but quite honestly, I don't know what I'm doing and the article has to be finished in 24 hours. Yes, that's another hoop. So it's not like I have a lot of time to even find out what's what here.

      Any clue on this will be very much appreciated.
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  • BTW, I logged into Text Broker and see there's only about 225 article requests. That is pretty low, although I have seen times when there were none. The number of request can vary greatly. They can have zero one day, then a single big client can request thousands of articles the next day.

    This is why it's important to have other options. When TB has 2000 article requests open, it's much easier to browse and find a few you can do well and do quickly.

    While I suggested you make $20 a day, there may be times when it's best to move on, and on other days write 6-10 articles to make up for the days when the pickings are slim.

    Be picky when selecting articles, then be very agressive when the circumstances merit it.

    BTW, I assume they accepted you as a 4 star writer? You'll do fine. They are mostly concerned with grammar and I was always borderline with them because of it. They won't get rid of you for bad grammar, they'll just drop you down to 3 stars, where there isn't very much work, until you improve.

    A strange thing is, I wrote articles where the client game me very good reviews for the content, but TB themselves nitpicked on the grammar.

    Again, TB is just for when you need something and have no other options. It's good for that and it pays often and on time. And you can get custom work from them after you prove yourself. But it shouldn't be your first option.
  • What about Dr Who theme songs, sound tracks and musical scores?

    Doctor Who Themes (All of Them) - YouTube
    • [ 2 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • Son of a bitch. Wouldn't you know it? The site has the sheet music to Doomsday from Doctor Who. Okay, now I know how to link it in.

      But what if I had picked a sci fi show that was so obscure sheet music or MP3s didn't exist? Then what do I do? This was just pure dumb luck this time.

      At least I can finish the article now.
      • [5] replies
  • Hey Steven,

    I'm new in WF but I've have read your whole post and im really happy that you are already trying new things and having success with them. 450$ is a good sum to start off with a new business/venture. You need to stick with your work and new gigs and clients will come long term. Today you're making 450$ or 500$ per month, who knows if in 3 months you're making 3/4k per month from writing?

    Sometimes we just stick to what we love and keep investing in it but we dont think that maybe the topic we love is not making much money today, we just invest on it because we love it. Happened to me and I've lost a lot of money.

    I had been in the same situation than you, didnt have any money or resources to start making money again. Today i am making 5k/7k per month and travelling the world and all this from Internet marketing, affiliates, online businesses.

    My girlfriend does the same than me, she works with me with IM but she has her own campaigns running, so we have a double income.

    We were in the point where we didn't know what to do some time ago but we never gave up to Internet marketing and here we are today.

    Keep the work up and never give up, Internet is a new world with a lot of things to make money from.

    I wish you all the best,
    Take care.
    • [1] reply
    • A word from the wise (Well, I wouldn't honestly call myself wise but...) Steven was making 10k a month when I joined this forum before Google moved it's goal posts so make sure while you're travelling the world having fun and spending your money to put a big chunk aside or invest in something solid so that if your business falls out of bed, which it could, you don't fall on tough times like Steven has.

      One other thing, a genuinely wise man once told me when I was in the gutter "It doesn't matter how bad your life is right now and it doesn't matter how wonderful your life is right now, one thing is certain, it'll change".
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • Steve,

    I know I was a complete ass to you, but you sorta had it coming. Nonetheless, glad to see the writing is working out for you.

    Anyways: self-confidence is huge. I am a tenure track assistant professor in history (used the Warrior Forum to help pay my way through PhD school) and just recently got my first book accepted through peer review and editing at a tier-1 academic press.

    ... I've always been incredibly harsh on my research and writing. But, this book validates both in my opinion. And, just like me, you need to ride this wave of success as long as you can. It is the healthy (and most productive) thing to do.

    Keep on keeping on.
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  • Steve, you now have some positive momentum. Use it to it's fullest.

    Now, stay the hell away from the forum and this thread. The last thing you need now is to let one of your detractors knock you off course - and you know it's easy for them to do.

    Bury your head in your writing and don't come out until you've met your goal.

    Now go. Go on. Scoot.
    • [ 4 ] Thanks
    • [2] replies
    • Okay Dan, I'm actually going to listen to you. This is my last post here for a very long time. I do have too much work to do to spend time at this forum. Obviously I will keep an eye out at the WFH thread for any work that comes along but I think my current client is going to keep me busy enough.

      Oh, and Suzanne, I took your advice and added pricing to the thread so there is no confusion there.

      Nate, no offense taken. I got what I deserved, I am now going to turn my life around and not just financially.

      To everybody else, thank you for all the help and the undeserved patience.

      And with that, I bid you all farewell.
      • [ 7 ] Thanks
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    • ..........
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  • Maybe this (I'm not a user or affiliate):


    http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...oo-can-do.html
  • Hello Steve , I have been on Warrior forum for quite while now and I know your rep, which in my eyes was very good. I kind of getting worried because if Steve who has been doing this for a while finds it hard to make money with all the WSO available then that tells me that these WSO are garbage and I have placed my faith in the wrong thing. Please tell me its not so, as I looked at Warrior Forum as a light at the end of the tunnel.
    • [1] reply
    • I wasn't going to return to this thread but I felt that this needed to be responded to.

      You're looking at things all wrong.

      A WSO is not the solution to any problem either for sellers (selling them) or buyers (getting one to learn something)

      The important thing to keep in mind is that any business has to be developed and run on sound business principles and must be kept up with in order to adapt to changing times. Because I failed to do this, that's why my business collapsed. No other reason. It had nothing to do with WSOs or this forum.

      People who depend on this forum, or any ONE source, for their income, are looking for trouble.

      You need to establish a REAL business, whatever that business is. That means thoroughly researching your target market, whoever they may be, and understanding exactly what it is that they want and giving it to them. It's that simple. The rest comes down to generating traffic, which has been my biggest problem since my old business model collapsed. But again, that was my own fault for putting all my eggs into one basket.

      Don't look to this forum or its WSOs for either the problem or the solution to making money. The problem and solution begins with YOU taking responsibility for the structure of your business.

      And that is MOST people's problems from the get go.

      They don't have a REAL business.

      Solve THAT problem first and the rest will fall into place.
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  • Steven, if I could add a #3 to Kay's list above:

    3. Don't make dramatic/black/white type statements over and over again such as "once I get the answer to this one question I'm leaving this horrible place forever" or "I'm busy working so don't have time for this thread and won't be back in a long long time". (Note those aren't exact quotes but a vibe you've been putting out for awhile.

    I can think of several Les statements (and one I made - trying to be constructive - not negative) that would never have happened if you hadn't said I won't be back or this is the last time or...

    Then when someone does make a comment about these dramatic statements, that throws you in a negative place and the thread normally gets derailed which doesn't help anyone.

    I'm glad that things are starting to look up for you.

    Mark
    • [ 4 ] Thanks
  • You used to make six figures peddling eBooks and stuff Steven. That shit ain't gone out of style. Revamp your sales pages and blogs to tailor it to the newest Google algorithm for SEO. Rank those sales gateways or monetize your blogs and make that six figure income again.

    You used to be a hard ass around here, and tell folks straight. Now take yourself in the bathroom and look in the mirror and talk straight to yourself and decide what you are gonna do. Cry in your beer or get off your ass and do what you know how to do, internet marketing.

    I don't know what the hell this music shit is, but looks like you don't have the talent yet. Once you are making money the way you used to, then you can take lessons and get good at it. Till then, do what you know how to do till you can do what you love to do.

    Good luck Steven. I wondered what happened to you, I haven't seen you around here lately.
    • [1] reply
    • Hi Tim, suprised you resurrected this thread, since the other one, (got closed due to a Troll) basically said he, got clobbered! Or effectively got downgraded so much it is pretty useless for the writing idea!

      Obviously Steven is interested in music or writing, and other suggestions like Fiverr are not on the short list!

      Fair enough, so l will just say good luck!

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    Imagine...

    Imagine, 6 years ago when I first came to this forum, I had acted responsibly. Didn't act like a horses ass, was helpful to other members, made friends in the industry, kept up with the Google changes and adjusted accordingly. Imagine that 8 years later I was somebody who people respected and wanted to help in the event that things had gone sour anyway.