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Feelings Or Logic?

by travlinguy
55 replies
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I think I know exactly how most of the regulars will answer but what the hey...

When you make an important decision do you rely more on logic or feelings? For me it's feelings. I won't even consider something unless it "feels" right. Once it's past the feeling check I start to quantify and qualify.

There's no right or wrong answer. What say ye?
  • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
    I've always considered that gut feeling to be logic on autopilot. Once you reach a certain level of life experience, most situations are near rehashes of issues you've dealt with before. We've already built the framework to handle the situation. We apply logic to discern where a current situation differs from the framework and work a decision accordingly.

    Or I just take a nap and let my wife handle it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

      I've always considered that gut feeling to be logic on autopilot. Once you reach a certain level of life experience, most situations are near rehashes of issues you've dealt with before. We've already built the framework to handle the situation. We apply logic to discern where a current situation differs from the framework and work a decision accordingly.

      Or I just take a nap and let my wife handle it.
      Yup. Intuition. or gut feeling. is really just nonverbal subconscious communication between parts of the brain. The effect is a feeling, instead of fully formed thoughts.

      The question could be more specific. Some life decisions are almost entirely emotional. Would you donate a kidney to your child? How would you even think about that with logic?

      For most of my decisions, it's a combination. Maybe mostly logic. But I tend to make decisions quickly, which indicates emotion.

      Which is better? Logic will give you better results. But it's not as simple as that. And it's not just logic VS emotion. Instincts and the reptile brain play a more important part that we might like to admit.

      I really don't get "gut feelings", so my answer about how valuable they are would be faulty. I know that, in selling, the customer's gut feeling is usually how they decide...and then...they create a logical rationale that sounds good to them.

      Nearly all mental activity is below our awareness. Not all feelings are emotional. Some are instinctual. And some are really logical, accessing memories, judging probabilities, subtle observations..that create a feeling in our "gut".

      So, maybe it's all really the same process. Some is verbal, some is non-verbal.
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      • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


        Which is better? Logic will give you better results.
        I'd agree that logic will give the logical person better results...
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

          I'd agree that logic will give the logical person better results...

          And your answer feels right to an emotional person.
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          • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            And your answer feels right to an emotional person.
            Exactly. The whole exercise is very subjective. If I didn't feel right about something all the facts in the world couldn't make it right for me.

            I was wrong about knowing how certain people would answer though. I definitely figured you for a straight logic guy and was surprised how much you consider feelings in decisions.

            I thought Kay would be all the way on the feelings side too.

            So much for knowing everything, huh?
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

              Exactly. The whole exercise is very subjective. If I didn't feel right about something all the facts in the world couldn't make it right for me.

              I was wrong about knowing how certain people would answer though. I definitely figured you for a straight logic guy and was surprised how much you consider feelings in decisions.

              I thought Kay would be all the way on the feelings side too.

              So much for knowing everything, huh?
              Sometimes it's the way we write. I write showing more emotion than I really feel. And I talk the same way. If I talked like I was really thinking, it would be off-putting.

              And, the reality is that some major decisions are never made logically. Can you buy a painting using logic? Judge music? Choose a mate? Pick a movie? Write poetry? How would you do these things logically?

              Skeptics can be emotional. Rational thinkers still feel the same way others do.
              I can't tell if Kay is emotional or logical..only that her arguments seem incredibly well thought out. But that doesn't mean she isn't emotional. Only that her rational faculties work well.

              I choose my friends because they are interesting. Is that logical or emotional? I don't really know.
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    • Profile picture of the author DWaters
      Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

      I've always considered that gut feeling to be logic on autopilot. .
      As Mr. Spock form Star Trek would point out if is illogical to not use logic! (that is actually a fact by the way). As Dan points out above perhaps you "feelings" are also based on logic to a large extent. Do the two have to be mutually exclusive?

      Casting aside a logical decision makes no sense.

      If your feelings are based on logic than that seems like a win-win!
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  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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    Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

    I think I know exactly how most of the regulars will answer
    Yes, you do - and almost all correctly, I suspect.

    So you know because I'm a tiny touch Aspergerish that I'm going to say "logic"? But it's a confused answer, because to me what "feels right" always tends to be logic-based, anyway.

    .
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    • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      Yes, you do - and almost all correctly, I suspect.

      So you know because I'm a tiny touch Aspergerish that I'm going to say "logic"? But it's a confused answer, because to me what "feels right" always tends to be logic-based, anyway.

      .
      Like making trading decisions based on candlestick charting?
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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        Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

        Like making trading decisions based on candlestick charting?
        LOL ...

        No, like being pedantic enough to point out that those are HLOC-bars, not "candlesticks"!
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        • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          LOL ...

          No, like being pedantic enough to point out that those are HLOC-bars, not "candlesticks"!
          I've always called 'em pre-candlesticks.
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            I've always considered that gut feeling to be logic on autopilot.
            I like that.

            I do the logic first. I get the facts, evaluate possible outcomes, pros, cons, blah blah.

            Usually that gets the gut feeling on a positive path. BUT - there are times when the research looks great but the gut says "no"...and I listen to that "no".
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            • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

              I like that.

              I do the logic first. I get the facts, evaluate possible outcomes, pros, cons, blah blah.

              Usually that gets the gut feeling on a positive path. BUT - there are times when the research looks great but the gut says "no"...and I listen to that "no".
              ^^^^^This.

              All the facts can line up and everything can appear to be perfectly fine, at least on the surface, but sometimes I'll get a big "red alert" and I've come to regret it almost every time I ignore that warning.
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          • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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            Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

            I've always called 'em pre-candlesticks.
            Ooh, well, it's different European nomenclature, then, as with some other things. I'm now wondering whether the difference between pre-candlesticks and candlesticks equates to the difference between pre-selling and selling!

            I do find bars much more convenient and meaningful than candlesticks, seriously: because although both contain exactly the same information, with candlesticks the visual prominence is given to the totally arbitrary and artificial "open" and "close", which vary hugely according the to the (user-selected) chart periodicity, rather than to the actually significant high and low (which represent at least some degree of support and resistance, i.e. human behavior in the market?

            .
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            • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
              Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

              Ooh, well, it's different European nomenclature, then, as with some other things. I'm now wondering whether the difference between pre-candlesticks and candlesticks equates to the difference between pre-selling and selling!

              I do find bars much more convenient and meaningful than candlesticks, seriously: because although both contain exactly the same information, with candlesticks the visual prominence is given to the totally arbitrary and artificial "open" and "close", which vary hugely according the to the (user-selected) chart periodicity, rather than to the actually significant high and low (which represent at least some degree of support and resistance, i.e. human behavior in the market?

              .
              I should have clarified. I called those symbols pre-candlesticks because when I learned charting we studied those guys first. I suppose because they read very much like incomplete candlesticks in that they aren't "filled in."

              I think in a perfect world (what's that, right?) candlesticks would be the best indicator. What I mean by perfect is where stocks traded more according to legitimate supply and demand rather than by specialist/market maker manipulation and all the other tricks taking place in global markets. I think candlesticks would give the most accurate "snapshot" view of what had happened with the security or whatever it might be. As things stand, I believe they're best for painting the picture certain people would like to portray. But even that can be very useful if you know what I mean...

              OH MY! I've gone logical!
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              • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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                Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

                What I mean by perfect is where stocks traded more according to legitimate supply and demand rather than by specialist/market maker manipulation and all the other tricks taking place in global markets.
                Oooh, stocks?! Sorry - I always forget there are stocks, too (I'm not trying to be funny, I really do ). To me, charts and trading mean forex: it's all I know.

                Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

                OH MY! I've gone logical!
                Don't worry about it: I've gone "feely".

                .
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Well, people here might expect me to say logic. There are some things that demand logic. However - whether I go with emotions or logic depends totally on the particular issue at hand. Life to me is situational and I'm not able to stick everything into one side or the other. Then again, I consider it logical to use emotion in some situations, so I guess this is kind of a circular argument for me.
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    • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Well, people here might expect me to say logic. There are some things that demand logic. However - whether I go with emotions or logic depends totally on the particular issue at hand. Life to me is situational and I'm not able to stick everything into one side or the other. Then again, I consider it logical to use emotion in some situations, so I guess this is kind of a circular argument for me.
      I see you way more on the feely side.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

        I see you way more on the feely side.

        I see Sal on the Feely side too. The Feely...chokey...fist fighty....kicky...strangley side.

        (Not in the face! Not in the face!)
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        • Profile picture of the author HeySal
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          I see Sal on the Feely side too. The Feely...chokey...fist fighty....kicky...strangley side.

          (Not in the face! Not in the face!)
          I was almost afraid to read your response after that first sentence. Claude's being behaved today.

          I'm not really. In my circles I'm considered pretty stoic. You can make me happy or angry, but it's almost impossible to hurt my feelings. When I look back on decisions I've made, where I have lost my logic at all points and went on pure emotion it's been in situations involving animals or family (and I consider a pet my family no matter what species).

          People have told me that they see me as a caring person. I wish I were. I'm not really. I just have a very strong sense of justice. Feeling that someone has been wronged or something unfortunate has happened, or being glad that something good happens to someone else, and "caring" about them. Is it really the same thing? I don't see it.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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    Most decisions that I encounter do not "feel" right unless they seem to be the logical and rational solution or course of action. I'd rather deliberate than make a hasty decision on important decisions. But that doesn't take into account decisions that are based on feelings, like getting married, or a gut feeling based on fear that causes you to flee or act with caution.
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    • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      But that doesn't take into account decisions that are based on feelings, like getting married, or a gut feeling based on fear that causes you to flee or act with caution.
      Hmmm... Decisions based on feelings like getting married. I'd presume the feelings you mean would be love and affection, maybe others. But some people look at marriage almost like a business decision. They weigh the positives and negatives and ponder whether they can deal with certain stuff. The other extreme side of that would be where someone was so sappy they can't see the forest for the trees.

      Before I posted this I realized that no one is all one or all the other. There needs to be a healthy blend. I run primarily on feelings but there are obviously times when logic HAS to be considered first.

      You're another one I thought would be more a feely person. When you get ruffled (on those VERY rare occasions ) you appear to be very passionate while it's obvious that most often you have thought your stuff through. Still it's your feelings that seem to be making the statement.

      As for gut feelings based on fear, I think we move out of the realm of feelings or intellect all together as fight or flight takes over. Just about everyone responds the same in most of those cases.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I dunno about that, TravelingGuy. Fight or flight response can be sequestered via faulty socialization. Ever see women get the snot beat out of them (some to the point of hospitalization) frequently, yet just stand there and get beat without fighting back at the time and then staying with the abuser instead of getting away from them -- because they "looooove" them, right.
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    • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I dunno about that, TravelingGuy. Fight or flight response can be sequestered via faulty socialization. Ever see women get the snot beat out of them (some to the point of hospitalization) frequently, yet just stand there and get beat without fighting back at the time and then staying with the abuser instead of getting away from them -- because they "looooove" them, right.
      Yeah, so what do you think would happen if such a person was being chased by a bear? Would they roll over and get et?

      As soon as I posted that response I realized some people don't seem to have the self preservation gene. Wonder were it went? It was there when we were born, wasn't it?
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      I just flip a coin. Why complicate things with foolish things like logic and feelings?


      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      And, the reality is that some major decisions are never made logically. Can you buy a painting using logic? Judge music? Choose a mate? Pick a movie? Write poetry? How would you do these things logically?
      People who buy art for investments use logic to pick the art they think will offer the most return on their investment. On a personal level, my wife uses logic to pick out art that will go with the rest of our décor.

      I could give examples where logic plays a role for each of those items you named. Frankly, I think logic and feelings are so closely tied that most decisions are a mixture of both.

      And coin flips.
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      • Profile picture of the author Joshua Rigley
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        Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

        I just flip a coin. Why complicate things with foolish things like logic and feelings?
        I knew it. Dennis is secretly "Two-Face", enemy of Batman!
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        • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
          Ian,

          All that angst over that decision, and he could have just flipped a coin and been done with it either way it landed.


          Originally Posted by Joshua Rigley View Post

          I knew it. Dennis is secretly "Two-Face", enemy of Batman!
          So this is how you treat me after I've kept your deepest, darkest secret all these years? Fine Joshua, if that's the way you want to play...

          Folks, Joshua is really Ignatz Kerfiffleflopper, the guy who paid $35,000 for a life-sized statue of Honey Boo Boo made out of ear wax.

          Take that, Mr. Rigley!
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          • Profile picture of the author Joshua Rigley
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            Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

            So this is how you treat me after I've kept your deepest, darkest secret all these years? Fine Joshua, if that's the way you want to play...

            Folks, Joshua is really Ignatz Kerfiffleflopper, the guy who paid $35,000 for a life-sized statue of Honey Boo Boo made out of ear wax.

            Take that, Mr. Rigley!
            I will have you know that I made that purchasing decision based purely on logic. I have a good feeling that the demand for life-sized Honey Boo Boo ear wax statues will greatly increase in the upcoming years!

            Besides, Claude himself recommended I buy the statue. He's a highly trusted adviser in making logical art purchases.
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      • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
        Mr X has a wife and 2 young children, he has a reasonable paid 8-5, 40 hour week job with evenings and weekends free, that allows them to own a modest house, car and have vacations. Not poor or rich, just average. His wife's a stay at home mother.

        Mr X does not want to pay for college or university to further his prospects for a better job, he can not really afford it but it's not his passion in life although he does not hate it. He doubts his drive and ambition in these areas. His intelligence is a little above average.

        He has a little time to go on the computer after work and began to look at IM. He tried out some things and made a little money. He learned about how you could possibly automate things, speed things up and scale up. This would take considerable time to do, set up, develop, learn etc and it would also take quite a while to equal and surpass his day job salary. He finds it fun, a challenge and enjoys doing it and felt sure he could make it work. It was all very logical and straightforward. Just needed time and effort.

        But there he is working 40 hours which is tiring, has a wife and 2 young kids who crave his attention which makes him feel guilty and does not want to feel he is neglecting them.

        So he sees a logical path to increased prosperity but is held back by his situation and emotions like guilt. Feelings getting in the way of logic.

        So, what does he do to get past this impasse?

        My view would be too go half way, make it clear to his family that he wants to try this out but not spend all of his time away from his day job on the computer but do half the time. And, make some extra money to improve their situation which they would obviously benefit from. If it really took off it would just be showing his wife what he could achieve and then making an extra effort to reach the goal with her blessing because she knew it would not be forever

        So his path was ultimately logic, he balanced the emotions, feelings and guilt and adjusted the path so that the impact was lessened. I see that as adaptive logic but still a logical progression taking a modified path based on the existence of emotions, feelings, social conditions etc and allowing for them and incorporating and balancing them into the scheme of his ultimate goal.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

          So he sees a logical path to increased prosperity but is held back by his situation and emotions like guilt. Feelings getting in the way of logic.

          So, what does he do to get past this impasse?

          My view would be too go half way, make it clear to his family that he wants to try this out but not spend all of his time away from his day job on the computer but do half the time. And, make some extra money to improve their situation which they would obviously benefit from. If it really took off it would just be showing his wife what he could achieve and then making an extra effort to reach the goal with her blessing because she knew it would not be forever

          So his path was ultimately logic, he balanced the emotions, feelings and guilt and adjusted the path so that the impact was lessened. I see that as adaptive logic but still a logical progression taking a modified path based on the existence of emotions, feelings, social conditions etc and allowing for them and incorporating and balancing them into the scheme of his ultimate goal.

          My Friend; Wanting to get ahead is emotion and instinct. Figuring out how to get ahead is reason. The answer to "Why?" is almost always emotional. The answer to "How?" is logical.
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          • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            My Friend; Wanting to get ahead is emotion and instinct. Figuring out how to get ahead is reason. The answer to "Why?" is almost always emotional. The answer to "How?" is logical.
            Logic is: The use and study of valid reasoning according to Wikipedia. Are you not just sub-dividing logic into component parts here? Reasoning is part of the process of logic, as well as how.

            I was more concerned that he had a goal (getting ahead financially, established the why) and with that already set he moved towards his goal using not the most direct and quickest route but a compromised, slower one based on including social conditions and emotions. A modified but still the most logical he could take.

            I am no expert on logic and there seems to be a lot of sub-divisions on that Wiki page. It seems there can never be totally pure logic here in humans, in theory yes, in practice no. Always a compromise.
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            • Profile picture of the author HeySal
              Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

              Logic is: The use and study of valid reasoning according to Wikipedia. Are you not just sub-dividing logic into component parts here? Reasoning is part of the process of logic, as well as how.

              I was more concerned that he had a goal (getting ahead financially, established the why) and with that already set he moved towards his goal using not the most direct and quickest route but a compromised, slower one based on including social conditions and emotions. A modified but still the most logical he could take.

              I am no expert on logic and there seems to be a lot of sub-divisions on that Wiki page. It seems there can never be totally pure logic here in humans, in theory yes, in practice no. Always a compromise.
              Well heck. I didn't know we were talking actual academic logic. I took a year of that stuff in school and I can honestly say that I have never once built or solved a quantum to decide what to do about anything. So I guess logic is out for me.
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              • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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                I'm just waiting for some Vulcans to start posting in this thread ...
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

        People who buy art for investments use logic to pick the art they think will offer the most return on their investment. On a personal level, my wife uses logic to pick out art that will go with the rest of our décor.

        I could give examples where logic plays a role for each of those items you named. Frankly, I think logic and feelings are so closely tied that most decisions are a mixture of both.

        And coin flips.
        Dennis; People who buy art for investment are using logic. But people who buy art for the way it looks are using emotion. Frankly, I forgot about the investment angle.

        I was actually thinking about buying furniture today (as it relates to this).

        My furniture salesman asked me (on my last buying trip 7 years ago);

        "How long do you want this piece to last?"

        First of all, it's a smart selling question. The purpose to ask it isn't emotional. But think of the possible answers;

        "Forever"
        "As long as I'm alive"
        "Long enough to pass it on to my kids"
        "As long as the home lasts"
        "Until we decide to move"
        "As long as it can last, for a low price"

        All these answers may sound logical. But what drives the answer is nearly all emotional.

        An answer based on logic?

        "Four years"

        Decisions may sound logical, but what drives a decision is almost totally emotion and instinct.

        Patients who have had severe damage to their temporal lobes (the seat of emotion), in adult life, find decision making very hard. They keep weighing the variables. They are not motivated..

        Anyway, I obviously have a compulsion to add thoughts. Whether asked for or not.

        And I tend to agree with you. nearly every thought is a mix. I personally think they are just two parts of the same process.
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        • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          Dennis; People who buy art for investment are using logic. But people who buy art for the way it looks are using emotion. Frankly, I forgot about the investment angle.
          If they only buy it for its looks you could say that. But when I say "I like these two paintings, which one do you think would look best in my office?" And my wife answers, "The big one won't fit the wall space very well, and the autumn leaves in the small one will go with the carpet better." ...then that's emotion and not logic? <- Winky face. We have to explain the emoticons because they don't look like what they're supposed to be.

          And I tend to agree with you. nearly every thought is a mix. I personally think they are just two parts of the same process.
          That thought makes sense, and it feels good. <- Big, cheesy grin.

          I crack me up sometimes! <- Pretending to be cool.
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

            If they only buy it for its looks you could say that. But when I say "I like these two paintings, which one do you think would look best in my office?" And my wife answers, "The big one won't fit the wall space very well, and the autumn leaves in the small one will go with the carpet better." ...then that's emotion and not logic?
            Man, you make this hard.

            Making decisions uses the rational part of the brain. Logic. But the reasons for the decision...although they sound logical...are maybe emotional.

            Why does your wife want to co-ordinate the colors? Is it because it's beautiful? More aesthetically pleasing? Is that logic? Maybe.

            Fitting a painting for a specific space? That sounds logical...but why not just put up a blank canvas of the right size? Is it logic or emotion? You know what?

            I don't know. And the part of my brain that tells me I don't know? I have no idea which part that is....and my brain isn't telling.

            Have a good evening.

            Tonight is a new South Park, and Key & Peele. Key and Peele are soooo funny.
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            • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              Man, you make this hard.
              Aw, I'm just messin' with ya. I asked myself, "Should I mess with Claude today?" So I flipped a coin and the answer was "yes."

              You probably didn't even know coins had a side that said "yes." I'll bet you thought they were all heads I win, tails you lose. Didn't ya?

              PS - I'm still messin' with ya.
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          All these answers may sound logical. But what drives the answer is nearly all emotional.

          An answer based on logic?

          "Four years"

          Decisions may sound logical, but what drives a decision is almost totally emotion and instinct.
          What drives a decision for me is neither emotion or instinct. It's weighing out the pros and cons ... a balance sheet. I try to keep gut feelings out of decisions because my gut feelings have often enough been wrong and I don't often make decisions based on emotions. I already have two dogs and a cat and don't want a husband. lol.

          This is logic:

          Logic is the science of argument evaluation; it includes methods and criteria for deciding whether arguments are reliable. In this context, the term 'argument' has a meaning quite distinct from its everyday use as a difference of opinion: an argument is a group of statements, consisting of evidence and a conclusion. Evidence statements are called premises, and the conclusion is claimed to follow from these premises. For example, the following argument consists of three simplified statements, of which the first two are premises and the third is a conclusion:
          All A are B.
          All B are C.
          Therefore, all A are C.

          A valid deductive argument is one in which the conclusion is necessarily true if the premises are true.
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          • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
            Interesting!

            People getting a bad feeling about something and driving into another lane on the road, etc, before something nasty could have happened, could fill a book, but it exists, and cannot be explained logically, unless you don't want to know in the first place, then it is easy!

            But in my case, falling in love, with someone, (or in my case something) can unfortunately override, your gut or intuition, so it isn't foolproof.

            I seemed to have a bad feeling about communicating to her, but l put it down to the time involved.

            After l sent this thing my money, the horoscope said, don't be pressured into something today! Wish l had read that earlier, but l have to admit that most horoscopes, were, warm and fuzzy, and said little about this nightmare.

            If l noticed any inconsistencies, l just put it down to her or it getting over stress or jetlag, or since she was from a different country having different values, etc.

            So, l my case logic, would have helped, but in others, like avoiding some nutter spinning his tyres and reversing the car by mistake, in the lane l had a bad feeling about, can be a live saver!

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          • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            I already have two dogs and a cat and don't want a husband. lol.
            This is a lousy way to break the news to me.
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            This is logic:



            All A are B.
            All B are C.
            Therefore, all A are C.
            Suzanne. I know what logic is.

            The OP gave Logic and Feelings as the comparison. So I used the term broadly.

            But it's a wrong comparison. We don't think using logic (by it's strict definition).

            We may use reason. Our thinking may be rational. But using logic is like using advanced math. We don't do it in making decisions. Our emotions and instincts drive everything we do. It's obvious in this thread. Every examples someone gives about being logical, is really emotional and instinctual. Wanting is not logical, and it's why we do things.

            We can use logic in our reasoning. Use logic in making a choice. But the desire to make any choice at all is emotional or instinctual. Reason is a tool we use to get what we want. But wanting is emotional.

            Maybe a better comparison would be;

            Rational or emotional.

            Using those words, my thinking is almost entirely rational. Even though I use emotional terms in my speech.. Rational and instinctual.

            Humor, for example...seems like an emotional process. But it's almost entirely rational. Humor is a form of math. A joke is an algebraic equation.

            Didn't we once have a long debate about this a year or so ago? It seems to me that Alexa and I really got into it. But that may not be the case.

            By the way, there are different types of logic, just as there are different types of math.
            And there are different layers of emotion and instinct. Is love for your child an emotion..or an instinct? I don't know.

            For example; Why am I pontificating about this? What do I care? I've asked myself that question. Is it emotional? Logical? No. It's instinctual. My need to dominate. Other instincts I see are the need to protect, and the need to be fair. And at the core of every argument and debate, is a drive like that. Beneath everything we say is an emotional scaffolding. But beneath the emotions are instincts. And that is why we do what we do.

            Anyway, It's a fascinating study, how the mind works. And it wouldn't bother me at all if someone destroyed everything I just said. It's all a learning process.
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            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              But it's a wrong comparison. We don't think using logic (by it's strict definition).

              We may use reason. Our thinking may be rational. But using logic is like using advanced math. We don't do it in making decisions. Our emotions and instincts drive everything we do. It's obvious in this thread. Every examples someone gives about being logical, is really emotional and instinctual. Wanting is not logical, and it's why we do things.

              We can use logic in our reasoning. Use logic in making a choice. But the desire to make any choice at all is emotional or instinctual. Reason is a tool we use to get what we want. But wanting is emotional.
              Logic is the cement of our civilization, with which we ascend from chaos, using reason as our guide.

              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              By the way, there are different types of logic, just as there are different types of math. And there are different layers of emotion and instinct. Is love for your child an emotion..or an instinct? I don't know.
              I wouldn't call emotion for your child an instinct at all. That becomes obvious when reading about all the atrocities committed on children by parents.

              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              It's instinctual. My need to dominate. Other instincts I see are the need to protect, and the need to be fair. And at the core of every argument and debate, is a drive like that. Beneath everything we say is an emotional scaffolding. But beneath the emotions are instincts. And that is why we do what we do.
              Challenge your preconceptions, or they will challenge you. Live long and prosper.
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              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                I wouldn't call emotion for your child an instinct at all. That becomes obvious when reading about all the atrocities committed on children by parents.
                That's a good argument.
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  • Profile picture of the author peterj
    I'm feeling surprisingly logical today,but logic tells me this feeling won't last.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Feelings whoa whoa whoa feelings...

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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

    Feelings whoa whoa whoa feelings...

    Cheers

    -don
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    After reading the discussion I think I'd change my question slightly.

    I'd keep the word feelings. I agree that feelings and emotions are synonymous but not the same. If I make a decision based on a feeling I don't necessarily have any emotion invested. I might look at a person and get the feeling he is good or bad or neutral but there's absolutely no emotion attached to it.

    As for logic, I agree it's probably not the best word. I'd probably sub the word: facts. Quantifiable facts. And still, I'd say that more often I base decisions on feelings. That's my default setting. I've gotten burned doing it but I've also done very well with it.

    Years ago I was flipping houses and almost never went by feelings first in a buying decision. There were essential facts that had to be considered and I learned right quick to make sure I had everything covered. Facts overruled feelings. When it came time to rent a place or sell with seller financing, then I went back to feelings and only skinned my knee once in more than 60 transactions. Trusting my gut.

    I once leased a house to a guy and his wife that were dead ass broke and living out of their car. I took them at their word that they'd follow through with a plan and they did, right to the letter. Excellent people and I knew it despite their extremely poor showing on paper. I ended up selling them the house a few years later.

    After reading the many responses here I realize now that people are never either, or 100% of the time. Maybe I should have asked for your default setting.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      ^^^ Not at all surprised that you're a very good judge of people, in such contexts as you describe.

      I agree with what you say, just above. I suspect that some of those "feelings", without the attached "emotion", are based on "facts"/"inputs" (even if not quantifiable ones) that you're subconsciously assessing by comparison with templates formed from experience. And that I'd be absolutely dreadful at doing that. On the other hand, the "quantifiable" element in facts is probably why backgammon is "my game". This is a better analogy than chart-trading, actually: it's a continual running assessment of probabilities - you can't get much more "quantifiable" than that. You also need a bit of judgement about when/whether opponents will accept early/late doubles, and so on, to maximize your winnings, but that's what we call in the trade "table presence", rather than "feelings" ... whatever that means!

      .
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      • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        ^^^ Not at all surprised that you're a very good judge of people, in such contexts as you describe.

        I agree with what you say, just above. I suspect that some of those "feelings", without the attached "emotion", are based on "facts"/"inputs" (even if not quantifiable ones) that you're subconsciously assessing by comparison with templates formed from experience. And that I'd be absolutely dreadful at doing that. On the other hand, the "quantifiable" element in facts is probably why backgammon is "my game". This is a better analogy than chart-trading, actually: it's a continual running assessment of probabilities - you can't get much more "quantifiable" than that. You also need a bit of judgement about when/whether opponents will accept early/late doubles, and so on, to maximize your winnings, but that's what we call in the trade "table presence", rather than "feelings" ... whatever that means!

        .
        Yep. Board games. I suck at them, with the exception of Monopoly. I had a lady friend a few years ago that loved to play Scrabble. She also loved to rub it in on how horrible I was at it considering, "you're a bigshot writer with all your fancy vocabulary..."

        I tried to tell her that Scrabble is a strategy game and not a vocabulary exercise. There are some things I just don't qualify or quantify in terms of planning and foreseeing the immediate or even long term consequences. I look at all those tiles sitting there on the table and get a woozy feeling in my stomach like I felt on my first day of kindergarten.

        But then there's stuff like Monopoly and Poker where I have the opportunity to interact competitively (don't ask me why I don't get this "feeling" with other games) and I just know which moves to make.

        I think you hit the kernal. We process information we've encountered over and over subconsciously. It's familiar on one level but we don't often think about it. To me that's a feeling. To someone more analytically inclined maybe it's advanced logic working. I'm not really inclined to want to know how everything works.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jennifer Hutson
    I almost always know the logically "correct" answer to something. But I almost always make the decision based on emotion, because it feels more right...even if I know it's the wrong choice.

    Guess that makes me a little dumb. I'm sure a lot of the guys in here are thinking "typical woman..."
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  • Profile picture of the author socialentry
    Banned
    Monopoly is zero competition.

    What happens is that every tile is bought out and everyone is afraid to sell, even the crappy 60$ property or else the other party will start building hotels like there's no tommorow.

    It sucks.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

      Monopoly is zero competition.
      Yes, that's the correct definition.
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    • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
      Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

      Monopoly is zero competition.

      What happens is that every tile is bought out and everyone is afraid to sell, even the crappy 60$ property or else the other party will start building hotels like there's no tommorow.

      It sucks.
      So does that make you feelings or facts?
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  • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
    You guys are talking about zero sum games and dominant strategies which are found in behavioral economics and game theory. Think tanks, military's, multinational corporations and nations use these every day to achieve the best possible outcome. It hasn't found it's way into smaller companies and certainly not down to the average everyday individual, where the law of attraction and "wanting" is said to be moving towards a goal.

    Interestingly, emotions and desire play a very big role in these areas of study. An individual is said to be "rational" if he or she is moving towards their own very subjective outcome. Outside opinions of others are said to be worth nothing in these cases.
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    I

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