41 replies
Hello all,

I'm wondering if any offliners have had any success with SEO firms. I used a few people from this site that are supposed to be reputable, but traffic or rankings never happened.

Most recently, I built a new site, hired a Canadian company to do citations for a flat free. I then added social pages and started adding content. 4-6 months later I had 2k visitors and a lot of good leads and sales.

Then I thought, "Damn, if I can do this, what could a pro do?" 6 months and $15k later, my leads are down 25% and My traffic has dropped 20%.

Now, this is not a fly by night. It's a firm with offices in my local area as well as Chicago. I found them by an organic web search.

My SEO contract is up in a few days, and I have serious reservations about allocating marketing dollars toward this again. In print(shared mail) , this money would have produced nearly 200 leads. The problem is that I already put ads everywhere that I know of.

Besides PPC, where are offliners investing online?
#local #offline #seo
  • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
    I love selling SEO, but to tell you the truth it would be one of the last areas I would ever invest money in, in any situation.

    PPC is far greater than SEO... I would recommend PPC over SEO any day if it came between the two. However, you should be working on SEO while doing PPC, so you can build additional traffic and possibly eventually save on ad spend.
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  • SEO is so volatile.. However, the risk vs. reward is there if done properly.

    PPC is great too.

    In my particular business, I wasn't sure how good a social media campaign would be.. but social media is AWESOME if you learn the ins and outs... or if you pay someone who knows the ins and outs.
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  • Profile picture of the author AmericanMuscleTA
    Your headline says, "Local SEO." So, you're mostly trying to get local advertising with SEO, correct?

    If so, get Claude Whitacre's book Local Online Marketing. It's like $10 on Amazon. You'll get more out of this book than spending the $15,000 on the company that didn't do anything for you.

    Feel free to send me a couple grand for the tip.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by AmericanMuscleTA View Post

      Your headline says, "Local SEO." So, you're mostly trying to get local advertising with SEO, correct?

      If so, get Claude Whitacre's book Local Online Marketing. It's like $10 on Amazon. You'll get more out of this book than spending the $15,000 on the company that didn't do anything for you.

      Feel free to send me a couple grand for the tip.
      I also offer the service where I do everything for the client. They are then listed on Google in the top ten listing, multiple times, for multiple keywords.

      It isn't cheap, but it sure is better than what you are doing now....and it would have saved you the 15 grand that you already lost. But I can only help if people are searching for your service online.

      Some businesses, that makes a huge difference in sales (like mine) and some get far less results.
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      One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

      "Those who know that they are profound strive for clarity. Those who would like to seem profound to the crowd strive for obscurity" Friedrich Nietzsche
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      • Profile picture of the author longrobnc
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        I also offer the service where I do everything for the client. They are then listed on Google in the top ten listing, multiple times, for multiple keywords.

        It isn't cheap, but it sure is better than what you are doing now....and it would have saved you the 15 grand that you already lost. But I can only help if people are searching for your service online.

        Some businesses, that makes a huge difference in sales (like mine) and some get far less results.
        I'm not exactly sure why I didn't get more leads. Actually, I got less visitors and leads, 25% less. I kept up with my webmaster tools, and I did in fact see backlinks continually added. There was work done. I just think that they were not as skilled as they claimed. When I was doing my own SEO, I was adding content weekly. They never added any content as they claimed that they would. That may have made a difference. I will know soon as I plan to start cranking it out again this week.

        Claude, I did read your book and looked in to your service. If I remember correctly, you build a separate site, and do not utilize a customers existing site. That was a sticking point for me. I want to keep everything on my main site. I just think that if I pay for a service that I get to keep the work after our contract is finished.

        Can't always be a good fit in every case.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by longrobnc View Post

          I'm not exactly sure why I didn't get more leads. Actually, I got less visitors and leads, 25% less. I kept up with my webmaster tools, and I did in fact see backlinks continually added. There was work done. I just think that they were not as skilled as they claimed. When I was doing my own SEO, I was adding content weekly. They never added any content as they claimed that they would. That may have made a difference. I will know soon as I plan to start cranking it out again this week.

          Claude, I did read your book and looked in to your service. If I remember correctly, you build a separate site, and do not utilize a customers existing site. That was a sticking point for me. I want to keep everything on my main site. I just think that if I pay for a service that I get to keep the work after our contract is finished.

          Can't always be a good fit in every case.
          You keep everything forever. As long as you pay the initial set up fee (which is by far the bulk of the money paid), you can stop the service anytime, and keep everything we created for you. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

          If you stop paying our monthly service fee, we simply stop creating content for you....but nothing goes away. If you just hate the idea of a second website ( it did happen once) I just create a blog for you, and link everything to your site. Our second site links everything to your main site, anyway.

          I just don't like working on existing websites.
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          One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

          "Those who know that they are profound strive for clarity. Those who would like to seem profound to the crowd strive for obscurity" Friedrich Nietzsche
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          • Profile picture of the author savidge4
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            I just don't like working on existing websites.
            Build it new or build another... this is how SEO should be done. SEO for the most part is not an add on service.

            The benefit of the separate site model is that as I was just communicating above, there is no crossed paths of online activity.
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            • Profile picture of the author longrobnc
              Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

              Build it new or build another... this is how SEO should be done. SEO for the most part is not an add on service.

              The benefit of the separate site model is that as I was just communicating above, there is no crossed paths of online activity.
              For most offline business owners, we don't just go around the net building backlinks or doing promotion. That's the point of hiring someone.
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              • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
                Originally Posted by longrobnc View Post

                For most offline business owners, we don't just go around the net building backlinks or doing promotion. That's the point of hiring someone.
                Rob, at this point I wonder if it would even make sense for someone to do SEO on your existing site. The problem I come across with a lot of businesses is that it makes sense to start new because of issues the past companies have caused. If you PM me the link to your website I can take a look for you and give you some tips so you know what to look for in the next company.
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              • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                Originally Posted by longrobnc View Post

                For most offline business owners, we don't just go around the net building backlinks or doing promotion. That's the point of hiring someone.
                I get that, but many have social profiles and post here and there and don't have a second thought about having their web address in their profiles or they might even have a signature like many do here.

                Think about having a signature link on the this very forum. just you alone could have 172+ links coming from the same domain, with the exact same link text. I would have 1400+ of the exact same link from the same domain ( this is why I DONT have one ). multiply that across a number of forums and social posts, and the numbers in some cases get staggering.

                So yes... many "owners" DO go around and backlink like it is their job ( and as I see it, it IS your job to do so.) There is nothing wrong with it... as long as everyone is on the same page.
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          • Profile picture of the author Electrical
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            You keep everything forever. As long as you pay the initial set up fee (which is by far the bulk of the money paid), you can stop the service anytime, and keep everything we created for you. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

            If you stop paying our monthly service fee, we simply stop creating content for you....but nothing goes away. If you just hate the idea of a second website ( it did happen once) I just create a blog for you, and link everything to your site. Our second site links everything to your main site, anyway.

            I just don't like working on existing websites.
            Does having a second website with the same phone number, address, and company name hurt at all? Do these have to be changed?

            I was under the impression that for SEO purposes having multiple sites with the same NAP would be a negative, especially for local SEO.

            Anyway, how do I find out more about your services?
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by Electrical View Post

              Does having a second website with the same phone number, address, and company name hurt at all? Do these have to be changed?

              I was under the impression that for SEO purposes having multiple sites with the same NAP would be a negative, especially for local SEO.

              Anyway, how do I find out more about your services?
              Having a second website with the same information helps, because it's a "Citation", which just means that the name address and phone are the same. The more, the better.

              Just don't make the sites identical. Different layout, different content.

              Look up Local Profit Geyser on Google, and you'll see the link.

              If you just want to see everything I do for a client, and how to do it yourself, my book Local Online Marketing covers it all. Just go to Amazon.com.
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              "Those who know that they are profound strive for clarity. Those who would like to seem profound to the crowd strive for obscurity" Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • Profile picture of the author Brandboyz
    Banned
    You can post in local website directories list in Canada.
    It will surely help you for local seo .
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    • Profile picture of the author DavidScarpitta
      The first problem is that the company was out of Canada. As they may not entirely understand and know your local market. I personally setup strategy meetings with my clients to better understand their business, and competition.

      Many "Seo guys" don't understand this.

      PM me your business details, and location and I'll see what I can do.
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      • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
        Originally Posted by DavidScarpitta View Post

        The first problem is that the company was out of Canada. As they may not entirely understand and know your local market. I personally setup strategy meetings with my clients to better understand their business, and competition.

        Many "Seo guys" don't understand this.

        PM me your business details, and location and I'll see what I can do.
        Well, hiring in Canada isn't a problem, not sure what makes you think it is. There are many top tier SEO companies in Canada, it's usually the smaller ones that are better though.

        Strategy meetings with clients are a waste of time for anyone offering SEO. You have to decide whether you want to be a business that provides a server or variety of services or if you want to be a business consultant. "SEO guys" don't need to do that, because it is irrelevant.

        Bottom line, with SEO it comes down to can you rank or not? All I need to know is that I have control over the client website. I don't need to know their biggest competitors, I don't need to really understand their business either. I don't care about that, I care that they pay me. They care that their clients pay them. If I can give them the opportunity to get more clients via SEO, then they continue to pay me.

        You either know what you're doing and can rank any keyword, and I mean any keyword... and any location on earth.....or you can't. Do you have that ability? If not, then all the strategy meetings and learning about their business is going to be useless.
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        • Profile picture of the author DavidScarpitta
          So you are saying that "Getting to know your customers and their business is worthless"?

          I can honestly say that any "Top tier" online marketer will disagree with you.

          In short, mainly because your potential clients don't necessarily understand what their customers are looking for. And secondly, by understanding your client's business model and what results they expect can certainly help tailor your longtail keyword research.

          So that "you can rank any keyword".


          That's the difference between fly by night guys, and oversized sales teams that belong to joke firms like Yodle/Outrank and people like myself that tend to scale businesses for the long term. (And yes, you can scale local businesses.

          Especially since you complain about all the money you wasted.(or supposedly did).
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          • Profile picture of the author savidge4
            Originally Posted by DavidScarpitta View Post

            I can honestly say that any "Top tier" online marketer will disagree with you.
            I don't disagree with Iam at all.

            Here is what is interesting to me. I think meetings are for those that say "Hey I can target 10 keywords for $X a month." You need the meeting to "help tailor your longtail keyword research"

            I think that business model is kind of sad really. and specifically why MOST SEO campaigns fail.

            Personally, I don't focus on 10 words, or phrases. I focus on dollars. I am more interested to know what products or services have the best bottom line. Which ones have the worst bottom line.

            The lost idea of SEO is NOT to get a better listing position, it is to create cash flow. The 2 do not always follow hand in hand.

            "Hey our contract says I am to get Good listings for these 10 super long tail keywords. All of them are #1 listed. Well I did my job, you agreed to it, need to see the copy of the contract you signed? I cant help it if only 41 people a month type that in."

            THAT is the crap that brings down the profession of SEO. its just straight out LAME at best.

            I recently did a 3 month contract for a client in Malaysia. Spoke with him once on the phone. He has a small e-commerce site. He was paying $2000 a month for SEO and selling 50 to 60 items per month. At week 5 all of his on hand inventory was sold out. At week 12 he was selling 60+ items per DAY.

            I PURPOSELY targeted 430 keywords. His page is hitting on 1800 total right now ( page 3 or better ). AND we are not talking JUST Google here. His site is hitting on Google ( 3 separate national search sites ), Bing, Yahoo ( yes I pay for that listing ) and DMOZ.

            THAT is SEO. THAT is how I get $60,000 for 90 days of work. And THAT is how I Guarantee ROI within 180 days, or I pay the $60,000 back.

            It is NOT the clients business model you should have meetings about... its your own business model. I say SCREW scaling! If you are scaling SEO, you are cutting corners to no end. you may provide results, but more than likely not providing PROFIT.
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      • Profile picture of the author longrobnc
        Originally Posted by DavidScarpitta View Post

        The first problem is that the company was out of Canada. As they may not entirely understand and know your local market. I personally setup strategy meetings with my clients to better understand their business, and competition.

        Many "Seo guys" don't understand this.

        PM me your business details, and location and I'll see what I can do.

        Please go back and read my entire post. The firm that I hired to do my SEO is in my home town. Sorry if that's not clear. TBH, a quick phone call or reading over my site is pretty much all they need to know to do SEO for me.
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  • Profile picture of the author DavidScarpitta
    The only thing I will agree with you is that PPC has power, but for people that "don't have business understanding" meetings..you certainly could be blowing unnecessarily through their ad budget.
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    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      Originally Posted by DavidScarpitta View Post

      So you are saying that "Getting to know your customers and their business is worthless"?

      I can honestly say that any "Top tier" online marketer will disagree with you.

      In short, mainly because your potential clients don't necessarily understand what their customers are looking for. And secondly, by understanding your client's business model and what results they expect can certainly help tailor your longtail keyword research.

      So that "you can rank any keyword".


      That's the difference between fly by night guys, and oversized sales teams that belong to joke firms like Yodle/Outrank and people like myself that tend to scale businesses for the long term. (And yes, you can scale local businesses.

      Especially since you complain about all the money you wasted.(or supposedly did).
      Originally Posted by DavidScarpitta View Post

      The only thing I will agree with you is that PPC has power, but for people that "don't have business understanding" meetings..you certainly could be blowing unnecessarily through their ad budget.
      First off, I never said I wasted money on SEO... I never found a keyword or a website I couldn't rank. I'm the guy that SEO companies come to when they have a very high quality client but they aren't able to get results.

      See this is the happy, self glorified business consultant or marketing consultant persona you're perpetrating. The whole study their business model catch phrase sounds nice, but it's not relevant. How many offline businesses have such a rare business model that you would have to study it? Business models, of any degree aren't exactly rocket science, they have basic functions. They offer something someone wants or needs, and they need positioning in order to be in front of as many of those people as possible. That remains true no matter what form of marketing you use.

      You say that any "top tier" offline marketer will disagree with me... well that depends on your definition. I really don't care who agrees or disagrees with me, I'm usually right either way. The truth is, no top tier offline marketer really will disagree with me, unless you're referring to the serial WSO publishers that try to push the happy go lucky BS on any hopeful newbie with a credit card in their wallets. Top tier offline marketers... top tier businesses in this industry, they all know something that you don't. What they know is that the difference between experts and novice, is that the experts do the basic things better than anyone else. They keep it simple and master it.

      I don't get hired to listen and study a business... and nobody I'm friends with in the industry gets hired for that either. I make money because I know the problems a company faces that they don't. I'm used because I'm the expert in what I do, not them. They don't come to me asking what keywords we need to target, I already know the keywords they need to target because I've already done this for tons of businesses in their exact niche in countless cities across the country.

      Meetings to understand a business model... what a waste of time if you're selling SEO. You don't need to know if a roofing company handles the insurance claims on customers' behalf, you just need to know what types of roofing they do, are they residential and offer steel roofing along with other types or are they strictly commercial and stick with flat roofs? Does an HVAC contractor really need to show you and teach you what mini split technology is in order to rank thing for AC repair, and related keywords? I don't think so.

      Sorry, I'm just against the crap. I don't want anyone out there wasting their time trying to be something to someone or fabricate a certain relationship status in order to get a sale. Bottom line is you have to know what you're doing. If you have to meet with someone in order to determine how to perform SEO for their website, then you don't know what you're doing.

      P.S. I never said getting to know your customers is worthless. What you're suggesting, is not to get to know your customers, you're suggesting to waste your time, and the customer's time with unnecessary meetings. Not to mention it is an awful part of the sales process if you truly want to scale.
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      • Profile picture of the author DavidScarpitta
        Well, I know we are past this, but from your attitude it seems that you just "didn't care to know about the business of your customers". I don't disagree about the profit centers of the business being targets, as that should be an important point. Nonetheless when I say "get to know their business" I am not talking about minute intricacies that wouldn't be searched on. Obviously that would not benefit them, or you.

        And again, I want to point out that "SEO" is only 1 part of the online marketing puzzle, in no way, shape or form is that the end all.

        I can sit here and bolster all day about how I get 1M+ visits to a money site via video and convert all day. Still the bottom line is that targeting for profit is important.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Without knowing what your business, it's hard for anyone to make recommendations.

    It would be useful for you to interview PPC providers and get estimates and projections.
    Get up to speed at PerryMarshall.com as well. It is easy to go over budget.

    For more on local SEO:
    View Profile: Catalyst eMarketing
    Google Places Optimization - Google My Business Consulting

    The recommendation for Claude's book is a good one. If I remember right he has about 72
    sources of advertising for his offline vacuum store.

    Depending upon what you sell; video, social media, reputation management, and sites like Instagram or etsy
    might be worthwhile. Maybe even banner ads on relevant sites where you negotiate with the owner.
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    "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

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    • Profile picture of the author longrobnc
      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      Without knowing what your business, it's hard for anyone to make recommendations.

      It would be useful for you to interview PPC providers and get estimates and projections.
      Get up to speed at PerryMarshall.com as well. It is easy to go over budget.

      For more on local SEO:
      View Profile: Catalyst eMarketing
      Google Places Optimization - Google My Business Consulting

      The recommendation for Claude's book is a good one. If I remember right he has about 72
      sources of advertising for his offline vacuum store.

      Depending upon what you sell; video, social media, reputation management, and sites like Instagram or etsy
      might be worthwhile. Maybe even banner ads on relevant sites where you negotiate with the owner.
      I've been doing PPC since 2010 and it does well.
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  • Profile picture of the author Internet Assault
    You definitely need to be careful when you hire an SEO firm. As an SEO consultant I can't tell you how many times in the course of a week I hear people completely tee'd off with the SEO firm they hired. My suggestion is to find a competent person skilled in SEO and determine if it feels right (meet them) and that they have your interest at hand. Smaller firms, or individuals, IMHO will be the place to start.
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  • Profile picture of the author Internet Assault
    Originally Posted by longrobnc View Post

    Hello all,

    I'm wondering if any offliners have had any success with SEO firms. I used a few people from this site that are supposed to be reputable, but traffic or rankings never happened.

    Most recently, I built a new site, hired a Canadian company to do citations for a flat free. I then added social pages and started adding content. 4-6 months later I had 2k visitors and a lot of good leads and sales.

    Then I thought, "Damn, if I can do this, what could a pro do?" 6 months and $15k later, my leads are down 25% and My traffic has dropped 20%.

    Now, this is not a fly by night. It's a firm with offices in my local area as well as Chicago. I found them by an organic web search.

    My SEO contract is up in a few days, and I have serious reservations about allocating marketing dollars toward this again. In print(shared mail) , this money would have produced nearly 200 leads. The problem is that I already put ads everywhere that I know of.

    Besides PPC, where are offliners investing online?
    Don't buy the hype. And if an SEO firm contacts you directly be careful. That's a red flag because from my experience and talking to clients who did hire a SEO firm who contacted them, they got burned. Obviously, tis is not always the norm but something to watch out for. Good Luck!
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    • Profile picture of the author longrobnc
      Originally Posted by Internet Assault View Post

      Don't buy the hype. And if an SEO firm contacts you directly be careful. That's a red flag because from my experience and talking to clients who did hire a SEO firm who contacted them, they got burned. Obviously, tis is not always the norm but something to watch out for. Good Luck!
      They did not reach out to me. I found them by doing a web search in my local city. They were highly ranked organically. I should have known better when they refused to make any specific claims or make any guarantees. All they would ever say is that they "felt confident" that I would see a ROI.
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      • Profile picture of the author savidge4
        I have been doing SEO for longer than I want to admit... There is a general rule of thumb that has carried itself around the hearts and minds of many... if a SEO firm is not ranking for a SEO specific term don't use them. In MY opinion this becomes a bit of a loaded gun. IF you live in a high demand large market... say New York or LA or British Columbia. I personally would tell you to do an internet search and NOT use those companies.

        The reality is, If they are ranking, its NOT organic, its juiced. and there is just a huge difference. A SEO firm with 10's of clients might get away with Juice. a SEO firm with hundreds of clients... these are the ones that run around after every update and blame Google. Its a shame really.

        I have said it before and I will say it again. SEO done "correctly" is NOT something you can stamp out, send to some VA, or do in bulk. SEO is simply not scalable.

        One of the key elements you are looking for in a SEO firm or specialist, is obviously their ability to rank your site. but deeper than that you are looking for comments or a discussion on YOUR online activities. I say "Comments" because if the Firm and or Specialist is truly invested in getting you as a client, they will have done their home work. They will know what your online activity looks like and WHERE it is.

        IF you are contacting, or they are contacting you for the first time and trying to close the deal and the "Discussion" of your online activity does not come up. I would say walk away. There is absolutely nothing that they could say at this point to change my mind.

        So why is this so important? YOU the clients online activity, is a piece of the greater puzzle. It can be the most influential piece. SEO is a dance, a well orchestrated dance at that. It is a play on numbers. Ones and Zeros. Its either right or its not. You have the right elements on your pages or you don't. you have targeted page content or you don't. you have inner linking or you don't. you have outbound linking or you don't. you have inbound linking or you don't.

        In todays SEO environment Inbound linking is of the most importance. Its not about the sheer numbers, it is more about the relevance. Its not about just getting links, but being aware of the words that are in the link.

        IF you the client run around and post here and there and else where and are not "aware" of the link targeting and wording concepts being used.. you will with out question probably shoot your self in the foot. YOU the client become a rogue linker in this scenario. YOU will throw off the balance.

        To be honest.. its NOT your fault. As I see it, there has to be a relationship and some level of education between you the client, and your SEO firm / specialist. In a nutshell it is hard to solve an issue, in this case ranking, if the SEO specialist does not understand the behavior of the person / company that they are trying to create answers for.

        When we are talking SEO we are talking math. ALL it takes is ONE link to many. All it takes is ONE keyword to many. Ones and Zeros. Algorithms do 3 things and 3 things only. Does the data present fall short of a parameter 1 or 0. Does the data present fall within a given parameter 1 or 0. Does the data present exceed a parameter 1 or 0.

        At its very core SEO is THAT simple. BUT, then you add in the fact there are over 200 parameters and how they work within themselves, and that's where it gets complicated fast.

        Now.. the hard part. finding those people or Firms that "Listen" first and act second.
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  • Profile picture of the author inlinecom
    Target your local traffic with the help of Local Directories, Classified ads and social networking websites. These are helping to your business and also grow your businesses and traffic.
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  • Profile picture of the author ianeire
    SEO is a medium to long term commitment. Anyone who claims to be able to get you rankings quickly, for competitive keywords, is bad news.

    You will see an increase in traffic and rankings short term, but in the long term it will hurt your business. I'm not going to say Blackhat, but definitely techniques that Google will penalize you for long term.

    Good SEO needs to be a MINIMUM of 6 months work, that is bare minimum. Building slowly will pay off long term with the search engines, no doubt about this. If everything is done correctly then you will never get penalized and be very hard to outrank.

    Of course, for short term results, always go PPC as the guys above mention.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Long term is secondary in todays market. fast and lasting listings can be made in short order in todays "Google" environment. Ill let loose a secret here. A blog that is connected to feedburner and G+ ( the idea is to have a semi active G+ following ) can literally give you results in hours. The post need only be shared usually 2 times, and it generally will reach the first page. add in some comments over the next few days and the listing is golden.

      Throw a youtube video in the mix, and watch out.

      Are you seeing the pattern? its all Googles properties that are being used to boost a post. It in no way is blackhat, it is simply giving the big G what they want...and that's the use of their properties over others, and they DO give preference!

      Originally Posted by ianeire View Post

      SEO is a medium to long term commitment. Anyone who claims to be able to get you rankings quickly, for competitive keywords, is bad news.

      You will see an increase in traffic and rankings short term, but in the long term it will hurt your business. I'm not going to say Blackhat, but definitely techniques that Google will penalize you for long term.

      Good SEO needs to be a MINIMUM of 6 months work, that is bare minimum. Building slowly will pay off long term with the search engines, no doubt about this. If everything is done correctly then you will never get penalized and be very hard to outrank.

      Of course, for short term results, always go PPC as the guys above mention.
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    • Profile picture of the author longrobnc
      Originally Posted by ianeire View Post

      SEO is a medium to long term commitment. Anyone who claims to be able to get you rankings quickly, for competitive keywords, is bad news.

      You will see an increase in traffic and rankings short term, but in the long term it will hurt your business. I'm not going to say Blackhat, but definitely techniques that Google will penalize you for long term.

      Good SEO needs to be a MINIMUM of 6 months work, that is bare minimum. Building slowly will pay off long term with the search engines, no doubt about this. If everything is done correctly then you will never get penalized and be very hard to outrank.

      Of course, for short term results, always go PPC as the guys above mention.
      Many people like me have bought in to this 6 plus months concept. It has allowed companies to string us out. They bill my card monthly, but never provide an ROI. This is not true in all cases, but it is what happens the majority of the time.
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      • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
        Originally Posted by longrobnc View Post

        Many people like me have bought in to this 6 plus months concept. It has allowed companies to string us out. They bill my card monthly, but never provide an ROI. This is not true in all cases, but it is what happens the majority of the time.
        I almost wonder if these SEO companies actually do any SEO themselves or if its all outsourced to a provider still using methods from 4 or 5 years ago.
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        • Profile picture of the author longrobnc
          Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

          I almost wonder if these SEO companies actually do any SEO themselves or if its all outsourced to a provider still using methods from 4 or 5 years ago.
          I don't think that it's always a matter of outdated methods. I think that in many cases it's just a matter of effort. There are things in SEO that are easy that many of us do on our own like building citations, adding content etc. There are things that are more difficult like acquiring the right back links. I've dealt with firms that made big claims, but never seem to deliver on the calibre of links that they claim. Most of us can grab low hanging fruit on our own.

          You are 100% on point about a lot of bad SEOs. I get SEO spam in my inbox everyday that's the same outdated methods and pitches people used 5 years ago.
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          • Profile picture of the author savidge4
            Not that its going to be so complicated to explain here.. but the most complicated thing to explain to clients about SEO is that there is no set pattern to follow. each and every site that I touch is different in direction and needs.

            In todays web environment, I am not sure most people understand that a change made on your site is more than likely listed with Google in less than a week... if you understand how to manipulate Google a bit, it can be brought down to days or less. If your site has some PR value and some age to it.. well it can be HOURS.

            SEO anymore is not really a waiting game, there is no more waiting months for your site to be "re-indexed", you can go into webmaster tools and literally tell Google... hey re-index me please... and it is a good bot, and does just that.

            Bing is without question a bit slower on the take, but they are literally by the month getting better. Yahoo and DMOZ.. well they are what they are, these do take time, but as I have said before... well worth the time.
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  • Profile picture of the author NateOlsen
    I think the best ROI in local is Google + Local AKA Google My Business then YELP depending on area and industry.
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  • Profile picture of the author BlackGecko
    Being a former CEO of a Online Marketing firm I can tell you that the biggest problem is to find somebody that will actually do the job and not smear you with rubbish. I have heard the craziest things from my clients about people in the SEO industry...
    I think the funniest story was when a Psychologist called me about promoting her website online, she mentioned that her website was hacked by Chinese and that it is all destroyed.. So I ask for her www address and I find a website with no css file. I asked her how did she find out about the "chinese hack" and she said that her former SEO company told her that unfortunately all their hard work went down the drain because of a huge cyber attack. I called her Hosting company, they said it was Shenanigans and the servers are fine... So we restored the website to 1 day before its last edit and... The css file came back, everything worked... But then Again she had no sitemap.xml, no robots.txt, stuffed Meta description, even Stuffed Meta Keywords..
    So, Thats just to show you the trickiness of SEO companies... They can lie.. And mostly thats what they do..
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  • Profile picture of the author farry1
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author Electrical
      Originally Posted by farry1 View Post

      Today there are two type of businesses which are running successfully, one is globally/nationally targeted business and the other one is local market targeted businesses. In this article I am going to discuss the local market targeted business, as most of the people are now focusing on their local market compare to nationally/globally. Google is also doing some changes regarding the local market searches. In mobile search results the local business will be shown before the ones that are not targeted locally.
      This is the awesomest post ever.


      Pro tip: When you copy and past an article into a forum, delete the part that says "In this article"
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      • Profile picture of the author ciciwa
        Originally Posted by Electrical View Post

        This is the awesomest post ever.


        Pro tip: When you copy and past an article into a forum, delete the part that says "In this article"
        I think the funniest story was when a Psychologist called me about promoting her website online, she mentioned that her website was hacked by Chinese and that it is all destroyed.. So I ask for her www address and I find a website with no css file. I asked her how did she find out about the "chinese hack" and she said that her former SEO company told her that unfortunately all their hard work went down the drain because of a huge cyber attack. I called her Hosting company, they said it was Shenanigans and the servers are fine... So we restored the website to 1 day before its last edit and... The css file came back, everything worked... But then Again she had no sitemap.xml, no robots.txt, stuffed Meta description, even Stuffed Meta Keywords..
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  • Profile picture of the author ciciwa
    Your headline says, "Local SEO." So, you're mostly trying to get local advertising with SEO, correct?

    If so, get Claude Whitacre's book Local Online Marketing. It's like $10 on Amazon. You'll get more out of this book than spending the $15,000 on the company that didn't do anything for you.

    Feel free to send me a couple grand for the tip
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  • Profile picture of the author ciciwa
    I don't think that it's always a matter of outdated methods. I think that in many cases it's just a matter of effort. There are things in SEO that are easy that many of us do on our own like building citations, adding content etc. There are things that are more difficult like acquiring the right back links. I've dealt with firms that made big claims, but never seem to deliver on the calibre of links that they claim. Most of us can grab low hanging fruit on our own.

    You are 100% on point about a lot of bad SEOs. I get SEO spam in my inbox everyday that's the same outdated methods and pitches people used 5 years ago
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  • Profile picture of the author christina21maria
    The course starts out with a in depth overview of what you will learn. I have watched the first two sections and already have information I can use today which is fantastic and above my expectation. Thus far-it is quite enjoyable.
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