Restaurant Directory..How can it be Promoted Through Accommodation Places?

11 years ago

zoro,

Lets start here: http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...estaurant.html Look for the posts by midasman.

So here is the "REAL" question. how geo interactive is the app? if you are say standing in a hotel is it going to give you a list of the closest restaurants?

I might consider going a bit on the tech side of this and do a tent type deal with a map image with the hotel centered and red pointers for each restaurant. and maybe change the color of the pointer if they deliver? have the address to get the app as well as a QR ( I personally am not a fan of QR codes, I don't even have a QR reader on my phone )

The flip side, you could list maybe the hotel TV channel lineup of the like?

The other benefit you could offer is a page on the directory.

As goofy as this may actually sound I often times will pick a hotel based apon the food choices around it.

Originally Posted by zoro

I am building a local city restaurant directory on Facebook using a new Social Directory FB App.
I will promote it on Facebook via FB Ads, but I also want to promote it through the local Hotels & Motels. Visitors in hotel rooms are always looking for places to eat, and this would help bring local traffic to the Directory.

I was thinking of approaching the local accommodation establishments in my city to see if they would allow me to place a Table Top Tent with a QR Code link to the directory, in each one of their rooms.
But, then it struck me ... What's in it for them? Why should they allow me to do that, they already have printed promotional materials in each room?

So I'm hoping some warriors might be able to give me some ideas or tell me what's worked for you?

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zoro

11 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

zoro,

Lets start here: http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...estaurant.html Look for the posts by midasman.

So here is the "REAL" question. how geo interactive is the app? if you are say standing in a hotel is it going to give you a list of the closest restaurants?

I might consider going a bit on the tech side of this and do a tent type deal with a map image with the hotel centered and red pointers for each restaurant. and maybe change the color of the pointer if they deliver? have the address to get the app as well as a QR ( I personally am not a fan of QR codes, I don't even have a QR reader on my phone )

The flip side, you could list maybe the hotel TV channel lineup of the like?

The other benefit you could offer is a page on the directory.

As goofy as this may actually sound I often times will pick a hotel based upon the food choices around it.

Thanks for your great suggestions.

Firstly to clarify: This is a Directory Facebook Tab App. In other words the Directory is housed on Facebook on a Custom Tab called "Directory".
The FB App is Not GEO targeted but can be easily accessed through Facebook and with Mobile Phones. Hence the QR Code.

I like your idea of placing a map image on the Table Tent. (:

Re the Hotel: If I offer them a page (free Listing) in the restaurant directory, I'm not sure how I could categorize it among all the diff restaurants?

Thanks

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DABK

11 years ago

Maybe you give them a page in your directory. Maybe you create a little brochure that you arrange to put in every room and at the front desk of every hotel within 2 miles.

And, then, you have to wonder, what's in it for the hotel?

And the answer is, a page in your directory (some hotels around here have restaurants that are open to non-guests, for those it wouldn't be hard); for the others, you'd have to figure out a category to stick them under...) and a a page on your Hotels directory.

And, since you have a hotel directory, you might be able to sell a page on it to a restaurant or two.

Originally Posted by zoro

I am building a local city restaurant directory on Facebook using a new Social Directory FB App.
I will promote it on Facebook via FB Ads, but I also want to promote it through the local Hotels & Motels. Visitors in hotel rooms are always looking for places to eat, and this would help bring local traffic to the Directory.

I was thinking of approaching the local accommodation establishments in my city to see if they would allow me to place a Table Top Tent with a QR Code link to the directory, in each one of their rooms.
But, then it struck me ... What's in it for them? Why should they allow me to do that, they already have printed promotional materials in each room?

So I'm hoping some warriors might be able to give me some ideas or tell me what's worked for you?

[ 2 ] Thanks

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Underground

11 years ago

If your app can be promoted through hotels and motels, then motels and hotels can be promoted through the directory.

Perhaps expand the remit of the app so it's about helping them find the best places to eat, sleep and drink in a certain environment. Then you can approach them with a far stronger proposition of wanting to list them, and then once you have, suggest that they should promote your app to their customers, so there customers share it and build the audience for the app, and they get more free promotion and exposure through the app.

Business owners are like Floyd Mayweather. They want the lion split or they are far less to play ball in anywhere near the number they would where everything is frames as benefiting them. So making it look like they get the lion split, and then helping to promote the app in the ways you suggest will get them even more customers, will be much more of a motivation, and help you build your app by stealth.

We all get desperation pitches from people who want us to help them and have stacked things in their favour, so much so that it's even slightly offensive if not downright rude. Rarely will someone respond and do a good turn if the pay-off is really small for them, and I think the solution to that is to create the app where they are a central player to, not a bit player who may get a lead from their free marketing assistance every now and then.

I have about 20-30 different demographics I have to appeal to build my business, and each one, I have to ensure they feel like the VIP and that everything else is based around them, and that sharing me with the list of social followers as actually benefitting them the most.

It has to be that way.

Even if you didn't expand the remit, you must stack the value proposition in their favour and offer them a great promotional opportunity at least equal to the one you are getting.

Making a list of every single way you can provide free advertising and get there ads seen by people would help build your case.

Thanks
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Freebiequeen1999

11 years ago

Some of the replies seem to assume it is just one hotel BUT the OP said "hotels"...so maybe could expand this directory to include various hotels?

Unless there is ONE main hotel that is the "only" viable one in your area, I would be reluctant to give any one exclusivity

Then again, I live in a "tourist" area where there are lots of hotels haha

Thanks
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savidge4

11 years ago

Is it me or did the OP state they are targeting RESTAURANTS, and wanting to use HOTELS as the vehicle to draw traffic? as in people staying in the hotel could look at the directory to find a place to eat?

Thanks
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DABK

11 years ago

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Freebiequeen1999

11 years ago

I also thought the idea was to target the restaurants

To the OP - how has response been from the restaurants?

Are you offering "free trial"? Exclusivity ? or just put them all in and plan to monetize later or?

I think this has some real merit especially on mobile phones where the tabs on facebook do not show <grin>

I would think you need a good way to sign up the restaurants. Maybe a separate landing page or ? blog or something?

I have personally done a LOT of local/biz marketing, promoting different things but the ONE constant is that small biz owners are a tricky and flighty breed - hard to get them to sit there and listen.
One time I was going over some stuff with a pizza shop owner at a :slow: time in mid afternoon when his new cook started a fire in the kitchen haha!

Thanks
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zoro

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Freebiequeen1999

I also thought the idea was to target the restaurants

To the OP - how has response been from the restaurants?

Are you offering "free trial"? Exclusivity ? or just put them all in and plan to monetize later or?

I think this has some real merit especially on mobile phones where the tabs on facebook do not show <grin>

I would think you need a good way to sign up the restaurants. Maybe a separate landing page or ? blog or something?

I have personally done a LOT of local/biz marketing, promoting different things but the ONE constant is that small biz owners are a tricky and flighty breed - hard to get them to sit there and listen.
One time I was going over some stuff with a pizza shop owner at a :slow: time in mid afternoon when his new cook started a fire in the kitchen haha!

Thanks for for suggestions. I am planning on starting my door knocking at local restaurants in mid Jan 2015. If I had local hotels on board I think it will be more attractive for the restaurants to list in the directory.

Thanks

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zoro

11 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

Is it me or did the OP state they are targeting RESTAURANTS, and wanting to use HOTELS as the vehicle to draw traffic? as in people staying in the hotel could look at the directory to find a place to eat?

Yes, the Directory is housed on a Facebook Custom Tab (App). It is also view-able on Mobile Phones.
I am wanting to sell listings to local restaurants. I will promote the Directory via FB Ads, but I also want to promote the Directory to visitors staying in local accommodation places.

Thanks

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zoro

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Underground

If your app can be promoted through hotels and motels, then motels and hotels can be promoted through the directory.

Perhaps expand the remit of the app so it's about helping them find the best places to eat, sleep and drink in a certain environment. Then you can approach them with a far stronger proposition of wanting to list them, and then once you have, suggest that they should promote your app to their customers, so there customers share it and build the audience for the app, and they get more free promotion and exposure through the app.

Business owners are like Floyd Mayweather. They want the lion split or they are far less to play ball in anywhere near the number they would where everything is frames as benefiting them. So making it look like they get the lion split, and then helping to promote the app in the ways you suggest will get them even more customers, will be much more of a motivation, and help you build your app by stealth.

We all get desperation pitches from people who want us to help them and have stacked things in their favour, so much so that it's even slightly offensive if not downright rude. Rarely will someone respond and do a good turn if the pay-off is really small for them, and I think the solution to that is to create the app where they are a central player to, not a bit player who may get a lead from their free marketing assistance every now and then.

I have about 20-30 different demographics I have to appeal to build my business, and each one, I have to ensure they feel like the VIP and that everything else is based around them, and that sharing me with the list of social followers as actually benefitting them the most.

It has to be that way.

Even if you didn't expand the remit, you must stack the value proposition in their favour and offer them a great promotional opportunity at least equal to the one you are getting.

Making a list of every single way you can provide free advertising and get there ads seen by people would help build your case.

This is great advise, I can see that you really understand how a business thinks and more importantly how to tap into their thinking = WIFM .. (What's In It For Me).

Thanks
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Underground

11 years ago

Originally Posted by zoro

764664]This is great advise, I can see that you really understand how a business thinks and more importantly how to tap into their thinking = WIFM .. (What's In It For Me).

BTW, I'm not saying be manipulative. You actually have to have something of worth, as seen from the perspective of the people who you want to sell on an idea or concept, not just get some people to believe that. Like people do when they through junk plr bonuses onto products to try to sell them. That's not real value.

This is how any successful, enduring business in the real world has to operate, the customer expects that. And the business don't mind providing extra value.

I'd heard about this social directory thing, but pay little attention to most WSO products these days, but checked it out early. It would be a very decent little addition to what I'm doing, another avenue to showcase businesses I work with to a local audience, and you can never have enough of them that you own. Glad I checked it out.

I can assure you though, most people are going to take this, and dumb as the masses are for some reason particularly in the IM world, think all they have to do is show it to businesses and they will make money. Then drop it like a live grenade a few days later and blame the method or app.

They won't make a penny doing that. Value has to be added. And you're smart enough to ask the right questions to try to work out how.

TBH I don't think it would be worth going and trying to work out and commercial joint venture with hotels, until you've built a large number or real fans. You might score one or two, who are less informal than the most will be, and don't mind doing that, but I think until you do that, I'd go for a lesser commitment of approaching hotels, asking to list their own hotel restaurant and then simply asking them if they think they're audience would find an app like that useful enough that they'd promote it to their list.

That takes a push a button. Whereas if you were going to some medium sized hotel chain with tons of staff, the idea would have to go through many chains of command, and then the staff would be giving extra work to place them around the hotel. It's very unlikely to happen for a app with very little traction, and not much pay-off for them.

With a local, targeted audience of say 5000-10000, and a chance to get their brand in front of that audience on consistent basis, then it becomes different. They'd have to be stupid to turn it down.

That's the only WIIFM they are interested in in this case that would get them promoting for. And you need a decent audience who can potentially use their amenities, if you want them to promote to everyone of their customers.

So you're first focus, for me, would be in building the audience and fan base. If your area is big enough, I'd approach the top restaurants with the biggest social media following and add them free in exchange for blasting your app to their list. And building your fan base for free.

Then when you have around 1000 or so, approaching hotels and seeing if you can get blasted to their audiences, further getting more followers.

Then when you have hit a nice critical mass of followers and brand equity (without which this directory is just latest new shiny object of the internet marketing production creation production line), but with that is a very attractive way to promote businesses and get them customers straight from the app. That's the real, valuable WIIFM.

Thanks
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zoro

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Underground

BTW, I'm not saying be manipulative. You actually have to have something of worth, as seen from the perspective of the people who you want to sell on an idea or concept, not just get some people to believe that. Like people do when they through junk plr bonuses onto products to try to sell them. That's not real value.

This is how any successful, enduring business in the real world has to operate, the customer expects that. And the business don't mind providing extra value.

I'd heard about this social directory thing, but pay little attention to most WSO products these days, but checked it out early. It would be a very decent little addition to what I'm doing, another avenue to showcase businesses I work with to a local audience, and you can never have enough of them that you own. Glad I checked it out.

I can assure you though, most people are going to take this, and dumb as the masses are for some reason particularly in the IM world, think all they have to do is show it to businesses and they will make money. Then drop it like a live grenade a few days later and blame the method or app.

They won't make a penny doing that. Value has to be added. And you're smart enough to ask the right questions to try to work out how.

TBH I don't think it would be worth going and trying to work out and commercial joint venture with hotels, until you've built a large number or real fans. You might score one or two, who are less informal than the most will be, and don't mind doing that, but I think until you do that, I'd go for a lesser commitment of approaching hotels, asking to list their own hotel restaurant and then simply asking them if they think they're audience would find an app like that useful enough that they'd promote it to their list.

That takes a push a button. Whereas if you were going to some medium sized hotel chain with tons of staff, the idea would have to go through many chains of command, and then the staff would be giving extra work to place them around the hotel. It's very unlikely to happen for a app with very little traction, and not much pay-off for them.

With a local, targeted audience of say 5000-10000, and a chance to get their brand in front of that audience on consistent basis, then it becomes different. They'd have to be stupid to turn it down.

That's the only WIIFM they are interested in in this case that would get them promoting for. And you need a decent audience who can potentially use their amenities, if you want them to promote to everyone of their customers.

So you're first focus, for me, would be in building the audience and fan base. If your area is big enough, I'd approach the top restaurants with the biggest social media following and add them free in exchange for blasting your app to their list. And building your fan base for free.

Then when you have around 1000 or so, approaching hotels and seeing if you can get blasted to their audiences, further getting more followers.

Then when you have hit a nice critical mass of followers and brand equity (without which this directory is just latest new shiny object of the internet marketing production creation production line), but with that is a very attractive way to promote businesses and get them customers straight from the app. That's the real, valuable WIIFM.

Yes, you are right, I did buy the new FB Social Directory product. With it I can also use it for Mobile users, that's why I thought of QR codes in the Hotel rooms.

Yes, I will first build the Fan base using FB Ads.

Thanks for all your great suggestions.

Thanks
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savidge4

11 years ago

Originally Posted by zoro

Yes, you are right, I did buy the new FB Social Directory product. With it I can also use it for Mobile users, that's why I thought of QR codes in the Hotel rooms.

Yes, I will first build the Fan base using FB Ads.

Thanks for all your great suggestions.

I am going to walk into this as the dark horse and say that you are straight up walking into a perpetual catch 22. I don't know exactly where you are at in Australia, but I have a history with such things in a "Tourist" town. By developing a "Local" fan base you are drastically limiting the potential traffic reach.

Let me explain. ( just throwing out < Australian > numbers ) say you live in a community with a population of 100,000. on average 50% of that population will eat out once a week. ( excluding fast food. ) Of the 50,000 meals 70% of those are going to be dinner time ( evening ). or 35,000 meals a week. that leaves 15,000 meals for breakfast and lunch. ( are we seeing the market potential yet? ).

Now lets say you do a bang up job and reach 10% of the population of this city, and have 10,000 followers on your fan page with the restaurant directory. The number obviously dips REAL FAST. You now have the potential reach of 5000 customers a week. 3500 for dinner and 1500 for breakfast and lunch.

Further statistics show that 90% of restaurant based searches happen into the late afternoon to evening. so we can now conclude that your breakfast lunch reach is really only 150 potential customers. Dinner is still strong... but do they need that help?

Then you get into the factors of influencing reach and things like that, and the once solid indicators simply fall flat.

THE FLIP side of this... Hotels.... your average 100,000 population tourist town is going to have 40,000 hotel rooms in Australia. Australia sees an amazing 64.1% occupancy rate. 80% of which are double occupancy or better. On a daily basis you have 25600 rooms filled. and again on average that is going to equate to 51000 ( + / - ) people that are going to eat out 3 meals a day. that's 150,000 meals A DAY - vs 50,000 meals a WEEK for locals. Do I really need to break this down further?

Above and beyond anything else it is our job as marketers to #1 find prospects, and #2 determine how we can draw maximum reach. As I see it... part of MY job is to locate and identify these numbers to guide myself and my potential clients in a direction that is going to produce results.

I will tell you when I had a directory in Myrtle Beach SC. I had bill boards in NJ, WV, NC, and Lower SC. I did radio spots in 5 states, and spent little if any actually IN Myrtle Beach. Granted Myrtle Beach is a odd ball market with a standing population of 40,000 that grows to just shy of 500,000 in season.

To the OP. You need to really think this through. I can tell you that by all indicators that I would look at, you are sitting on a gold mine.

I would at the very least - approach a couple hotels. Preferably hotels that DO NOT have a restaurant. Offer premium listings in exchange for flyer tent placement.

ONCE you have a few hotels you want to directly approach close in proximity dining establishments and discuss the options for getting #1 on your directory, and #2 getting their establishment listed in those 64.1% booked rooms, that given the menu options and hours of operations can increase their PAIN POINT breakfast and lunch.

I will just short of guarantee that it may not take just1 hotel to ok the idea, but maybe 2 or 3 and it is going to be full on game on!

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zoro

11 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

I am going to walk into this as the dark horse and say that you are straight up walking into a perpetual catch 22. I don't know exactly where you are at in Australia, but I have a history with such things in a "Tourist" town. By developing a "Local" fan base you are drastically limiting the potential traffic reach.

Let me explain.

I will just short of guarantee that it may not take just1 hotel to ok the idea, but maybe 2 or 3 and it is going to be full on game on!

Makes a lot of sense. Perhaps I've got my marketing strategy arse about, so to speak. May be I should be building instead a Local Accommodation Directory and then get Restaurant Advertisers on board?

Thanks
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savidge4

11 years ago

Originally Posted by zoro

Makes a lot of sense. Perhaps I've got my marketing strategy arse about, so to speak. May be I should be building instead a Local Accommodation Directory and then get Restaurant Advertisers on board?

I don't think you are backwards at all.. If you do play with your tab directory, you will see you can add a "second" category and a third and fourth etc. Aside from obviously breaking out the restaurants by cuisine ( Mexican, Aussie, seafood etc ) you can add a "Hotels" category.

The beauty in what you are looking to do is in fact using the hotel guest's as your traffic source for your restaurant clients. These hotel guests are specifically the type of traffic your local restaurants are looking for ( again refer to the numbers break down. ) YOU actually have stumbled on a method to get their attention.

The only hurdle you have at this point is how to systematically and consistently get your message into hotels, be it lobbies or rooms or wherever.

Because once you have THAT... Restaurants will PAY without question. It really is a no brainer.

Thanks
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zoro

11 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

I don't think you are backwards at all.. If you do play with your tab directory, you will see you can add a "second" category and a third and fourth etc. Aside from obviously breaking out the restaurants by cuisine ( Mexican, Aussie, seafood etc ) you can add a "Hotels" category.

The beauty in what you are looking to do is in fact using the hotel guest's as your traffic source for your restaurant clients. These hotel guests are specifically the type of traffic your local restaurants are looking for ( again refer to the numbers break down. ) YOU actually have stumbled on a method to get their attention.

The only hurdle you have at this point is how to systematically and consistently get your message into hotels, be it lobbies or rooms or wherever.

Because once you have THAT... Restaurants will PAY without question. It really is a no brainer.

Yes, that is correct. Getting the Hotels to accept my Table Tents, Flyers, or whatever, is going to be the hardest part, hence my reason for posting this thread in the first place.

I want to tab into the hotels guests as another traffic source for the restaurants. I am confident that restaurants will come on board if I can get my directory promo material into the Hotel/Motel rooms.

How I can provide analytical proof of new customers to the restaurants is another hurdle I've also got to overcome.

Thanks

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bizgrower

11 years ago

I don't know how the App works for regional, national and international
marketing, but as a hotel manager in a very small tourist town, that's
what I want. That's what my town wants.

The town does not need to market to people who are already going to
come here. I don't need to market to people who are already going to
come here because there are only three hotels in my town. One is a
high end boutique hotel and the other is a low end chain hotel with a
bad rep. We only have 33 rooms and are in the middle of the market.
(We do need to implant ideas in people who know about us for Summer
stuff, but not Winter and vice versa...)

I need to extend my reach to:
a) people who did not know about us and this area
b) people who will come here in our off seasons

As an example for off season, where I am, the month of April is dead.
We have a rare bird here that some birding groups - usually from England
for some reason - come to find. So, one thing I am going to do is market to
birders via Facebook Groups.

Another thought for you. October and November are also slow months.
We are 10 miles from a ski area that has trial runs and clinics for ski clubs
during those months. October is iffy about the weather for skiing. November
is game on enough with temperature and snowmaking. These ski clubs are
now looking for something different in lodging and food, and I am working
with a restaurant to offer some package deal.

So, a WIIFM for hotels is new and off season market reach - maybe facilitation
through the app - a featured ad? - of package deals in the off season, or whenever it
makes sense. Lay people often make the mistake of thinking I should offer huge
discounts to groups because they are bringing me so much business. Not the
case when I am going to sell all those rooms at retail rate anyway.

Another benefit is providing current data via the hotel's Facebook or website.
Restaurants go out of business all the time, change menus and specials, change
hours all the time, move to new locations... The print directories can't update
and I don't like to spend time updating print or web stuffs.

Hope this ramble gives you some helpful ideas you can implement.

Dan

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savidge4

11 years ago

Originally Posted by bizgrower

I don't know how the App works for regional, national and international
marketing, but as a hotel manager in a very small tourist town, that's
what I want. That's what my town wants.

Dan

Since no one else will... I will look the proverbial gift horse in the mouth. AS A HOTEL OWNER what would be the "tipping point" ( love that term ) for me as a marketer to persuade you to placing a table tent or like item in each room displaying local restaurants?

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SirThomas

11 years ago

Originally Posted by bizgrower

I don't know how the App works for regional, national and international marketing, but as a hotel manager in a very small tourist town, that's what I want. That's what my town wants.

Dan,

Perhaps I'm missing something here... Why do you think your town needs an app? App for what? To contact potential tourists or the ones already in your town?

Apps are tools for users that need "frequent and up to date" access to info/software about something. Otherwise, they don't need it. I doubt too many tourist (if any) would consider downloading an app about your town, but I might be wrong....

I believe, what you need is a facebook page for your town, where you can post all activities tourists can use, at any given time. From there, you can expand your reach by offering specialized cuisine or custom vacation packages (there are plenty of special interest groups like those bird watchers, who wouldn't mind off-season getaways).

Originally Posted by bizgrower

As an example for off season, where I am, the month of April is dead. We have a rare bird here that some birding groups - usually from England for some reason - come to find. So, one thing I am going to do is market to birders via Facebook Groups.

Or you could start your own facebook group that deals directly with that rare bird. Then, you can reach out to hundreds of groups sharing what know about that bird and its habitat. I'm talking videos, pics, testimonials from other "watchers" etc. Of course, your hotel will be a proud hospitality provider for their tours! :-)

Thomas

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bizgrower

11 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

Since no one else will... I will look the proverbial gift horse in the mouth. AS A HOTEL OWNER what would be the "tipping point" ( love that term ) for me as a marketer to persuade you to placing a table tent or like item in each room displaying local restaurants?

Free is probably going to do it.

The table tent or like item will likely have to be suitable for the décor - especially in fancier and boutique hotels. Chain hotels may have to get approval from corporate. It could be made with the hotels' logo on it.

If there is resistance, then showing how the hotel will look in the App and on FB will help.
Also, if it applies, then explaining how it will help facilitate packages, and expand on season and off season
marketing reach, and retarget existing visitors.

It's possible that the hotel won't allow it to be placed in the rooms, just common areas. The
agreement we have with the company that provides our in room print directories states that
we can't have other local advertisements in the rooms, including such things as restaurant menus.

The print directory is almost free. In exchange for letting the sales rep stay for free once a
year, we get the printed local directory and vinyl folder with our logo on them. Our introductory
stuff and policies are the first pages in the directory, then the local advertisers - shops,
restaurants and activity business like rafting companies.

Originally Posted by SirThomas

Dan,

Perhaps I'm missing something here... Why do you think your town needs an app? App for what? To contact potential tourists or the ones already in your town?

Apps are tools for users that need "frequent and up to date" access to info/software about something. Otherwise, they don't need it. I doubt too many tourist (if any) would consider downloading an app about your town, but I might be wrong....

I believe, what you need is a facebook page for your town, where you can post all activities tourists can use, at any given time. From there, you can expand your reach by offering specialized cuisine or custom vacation packages (there are plenty of special interest groups like those bird watchers, who wouldn't mind off-season getaways).

Or you could start your own facebook group that deals directly with that rare bird. Then, you can reach out to hundreds of groups sharing what know about that bird and its habitat. I'm talking videos, pics, testimonials from other "watchers" etc. Of course, your hotel will be a proud hospitality provider for their tours! :-)

Thomas

Thank you for the ideas. We have currently have three bird tour guides, I can also explore co-marketing with them more.

I wasn't saying the town or my hotel needs an app. I was just giving Zoro and the audience marketing directions to consider for addressing WIIFMs. Help with regional, national and international marketing.
Help with off season marketing. Help with retargeting (there, I used that word in a sentence) Summer,
or whatever season, visitors to our other seasons and reasons to visit.

I just saw a re-run of Hotel Impossible on the Travel channel. That episode revolved around the Riviera
Resort in Granby, Colorado, a small tourist town that dies in the Winter months. Anthony, the host of the show realized he did not need to market just the hotel, but the town and surrounding area as well. He got
Joel Comm to help with social media and video marketing.

Dan

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zoro

11 years ago

Originally Posted by bizgrower

I don't know how the App works for regional, national and international
marketing, but as a hotel manager in a very small tourist town, that's
what I want. That's what my town wants.

Another benefit is providing current data via the hotel's Facebook or website.
Restaurants go out of business all the time, change menus and specials, change
hours all the time, move to new locations... The print directories can't update
and I don't like to spend time updating print or web stuffs.

Hope this ramble gives you some helpful ideas you can implement.

Dan

Appreciate your input.

Just to be clear I'm not building an App. What I'm wanting to develop is a Local City/Town Restaurant Directory on Facebook. Facebook allows you to have extra pages on your business page, these are called Custom Tab Apps, and that's where I will house the Directory. I was thinking that local Hotels might be good for additional traffic to those restaurants.

Whilst I can also build business Apps very cheaply, I don't think an App by itself would be sufficient to attract more customers to your hotel. For you (just off the top of my head) I would recommend a marketing mix of, Mobile Website, Online Advertising, Facebook, and Advertising with your local tourism body.

Having an simple Biz Mobile App is excellent for re targeting existing customers with your future promotional offers using PUSH Messages. You just need to have a compelling reason why users should install your app.

Thanks

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Underground

11 years ago

Thanks for the info Bizgrower. What was the pitch from the directory? Were they national or local. Your pay off for stocking the directory was in being able to brand it as your own directory, or was there more than that?

From what you've writte, it seems like the rep managed to make it look like the stockists were the ones getting the great deal in stocking their directory. That would indicate that businesses place quite high-value on having a directory for there customers. And that positioning with confidence and authority is a key-strategy.

Or was your branding on there in it's wider circulation too, or just in the hotel?

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bizgrower

11 years ago

Underground and everybody,

The deal with the directory was made way before my time here,
so I have to apologize for not knowing the pitch details. It is a
service to our guests who bother to read the dang thing. lol
(Digital certainly has advantages these days - used more and
easier to keep current.)

Besides the service to guests, the branding is the only direct payoff; however,
a smart hotel owner or manager will realize that it is important to treat the sales
rep well because he is talking to almost all tourist interested businesses in the area.

The branding and directory and folder are only used in the hotel.
I should look into distributing them like a rack card.

This does bring some other things up. OP could also do the print directory
and get that revenue stream. For additional revenue, the Bob Ross 9x12
could be incorporated as well because you are talking to businesses about
advertising anyway. You could have several pricing tiers.

I was going to add that Zoro could offer to provide the hotel branding
on the table tents or like - perhaps business cards with the hotel and
his App information. Something that could help the hotel information
be spread around towns.

The directory company we use covers at least Colorado, maybe national,
but the directory ads are strictly local and the only print directory in the hotel rooms.
There is now a nice County Tourism bureau published guide that probably has the
same advertisers and I could see business owners saying no to our directory publisher
if we put those, or other, guides in the rooms.

Dan

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Mark Singletary

11 years ago

Do you have the URL for this software/plugin? I know there was a recent launch that had something like this but not sure if it's what you are using.

Mark

Thanks
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zoro

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

Do you have the URL for this software/plugin? I know there was a recent launch that had something like this but not sure if it's what you are using.

Mark

Mark, no I don't have the afilliate link anymore, but if you just Google or YouTube "Social Directory", you will quickly find it.

Hope that helps.

Thanks

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zoro

11 years ago

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savidge4

11 years ago

Originally Posted by zoro

How I can provide analytical proof of new customers to the restaurants is another hurdle I've also got to overcome.

Here in lies why I focus more on e-commerce related clients.

For me personally I have always fallen to a coupon based system. Ideally this is not somewhere you want to go. But in many cases it has been the only alternative to some type of tracking.

Another method I have had success with was simply asking "Tell them so and so sent you" Customers will say it. The issue with the success in this method is the target location has minimal staff and the overall understanding of why this is being said is understood by all and noted. In a restaurant environment the question is will that message get back to the person that needs to hear it ( the owner ).

In your case in particular, you have to remember that your restaurant tab does allow for reviews. That in itself over time may be an indicator of sorts based on the communication from the customers. - since you are extending from a social platform, I am willing to bet the review concept will be used more than traditional online review options.

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zoro

11 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

Here in lies why I focus more on e-commerce related clients.

For me personally I have always fallen to a coupon based system. Ideally this is not somewhere you want to go. But in many cases it has been the only alternative to some type of tracking.

Another method I have had success with was simply asking "Tell them so and so sent you" Customers will say it. The issue with the success in this method is the target location has minimal staff and the overall understanding of why this is being said is understood by all and noted. In a restaurant environment the question is will that message get back to the person that needs to hear it ( the owner ).

In your case in particular, you have to remember that your restaurant tab does allow for reviews. That in itself over time may be an indicator of sorts based on the communication from the customers. - since you are extending from a social platform, I am willing to bet the review concept will be used more than traditional online review options.

Yeah, I don't really like coupons. In my experience, with coupons, businesses are usually asked to supply something for free, or at least a super discount offer, and they're generally not too keen on the idea. Truth be told I don't have time to be running a coupon business for them, even though I have all the right software to do it.

On reflection, I don't think I need to provide any kind of tracking data, because if you think about it, most businesses just blindly spend money on all sorts of advertising never to question if it works or where the customers came from. Advertising agencies and newspapers certainly never provide them with any tracking data, so why should I.?

Thanks

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bizgrower

11 years ago

I think - and I'm not being biased - you are not doing it backwards. Market the directory in the
hotels and charge the restaurant businesses - or other tourist businesses. Hotels can do a free or paid listing on Trip Advisor and the percentage of travelers who use Trip Advisor to find hotels is 63% or 83% (can't recall off the top of my head). I probably won't renew our paid listing with Trip Advisor.
You would also be competing with giants like Hotels.com...

Hotels/concierges are the referral hub to what to do in town. In my particular town, the
way it's built, newcomers do not know the main downtown is just five blocks west. It is
really a struggle for downtown merchants to get people down there.

With our strict drunk driving laws here, people do choose hotels based upon proximity to local
bars and restaurants. "Can I walk? I don't want to risk a ticket." Here, one beer can put someone into the lower category of drunk driving offenses.

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zoro

11 years ago

Originally Posted by bizgrower

I think - and I'm not being biased - you are not doing it backwards. Market the directory in the
hotels and charge the restaurant businesses - or other tourist businesses. Hotels can do a free or paid listing on Trip Advisor and the percentage of travelers who use Trip Advisor to find hotels is 63% or 83% (can't recall off the top of my head). I probably won't renew our paid listing with Trip Advisor.
You would also be competing with giants like Hotels.com...

Hotels/concierges are the referral hub to what to do in town. In my particular town, the
way it's built, newcomers do not know the main downtown is just five blocks west. It is
really a struggle for downtown merchants to get people down there.

With our strict drunk driving laws here, people do choose hotels based upon proximity to local
bars and restaurants. "Can I walk? I don't want to risk a ticket." Here, one beer can put someone into the lower category of drunk driving offenses.

Yep thanks, I totally agree. But that's still where I'm hitting my head, how do I get Hotels/Motels to allow me to place my promo material in their rooms? What's the WIIFM for them?

Thanks
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bizgrower

11 years ago

Originally Posted by zoro

Yep thanks, I totally agree. But that's still where I'm hitting my head, how do I get Hotels/Motels to allow me to place my promo material in their rooms? What's the WIIFM for them?

You'll just have to talk to some local hotel owner's or managers. If you're services are free for them, it should be easy. Their logo on table tents, maybe business cards. Marketed however you're going to on your directory.... The first ones, just tell them what you're thinking about doing and listen.

Friday through Monday are not good days for me to talk to vendors. I'm too busy with customers and housekeeping and cleaning the grounds. I suspect it's the same for most managers or owners.

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zoro

11 years ago

Originally Posted by bizgrower

You'll just have to talk to some local hotel owner's or managers. If you're services are free for them, it should be easy. Their logo on table tents, maybe business cards. Marketed however you're going to on your directory.... The first ones, just tell them what you're thinking about doing and listen.

Friday through Monday are not good days for me to talk to vendors. I'm too busy with customers and housekeeping and cleaning the grounds. I suspect it's the same for most managers or owners.

Yes, I'll try to get one or three on-board first. What days or times do you think would be best to call or walk-in ?

Perhaps I should name the Directory something like .. "MyCity Restaurant & Accommodation Directory". What do you think?

Thanks
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savidge4

11 years ago

Originally Posted by zoro

Yes, I'll try to get one or three on-board first. What days or times do you think would be best to call or walk-in ?

Perhaps I should name the Directory something like .. "MyCity Restaurant & Accommodation Directory". What do you think?

Historically for hotels Monday Tuesday and Wednesdays are the slowest for hotels. Of all of the meetings I have had with hotels in my time, by enlarge most if not short of all have occurred on Tuesday or Wednesdays. Mondays are the day that managers catch up with what happened over the week end. Corporate chains do phone conferences and the like on Monday afternoons as well. So in general I would stay away from Mondays.

In regards to your directory name. I would think trendy... step a bit out of the box here. Remember your primary target is social media.. and catchy can only help. I was thinking "Eats and Sheets" but the dot com is taken by a b&b in Italy. maybe flipping it? "sheets and eats"?

I know that "hotel" in aussie slang is pub right? so what might some aussie slang for food and hotel be?

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DABK 11 years ago

I wouldn't do that. It's descriptive, so no confusion. But it's clunky. Short is good. Catchy is good.

If you're going to do more than your city, your city name should not be in it.

On the other hand, if it's all for one city, you can have the city name in it. Maybe, you should even?

WhereCityEats.com? Replace City with your city name.

Maybe, pick some exotic food that it's well known. Or the name of some food in another language that sounds exotic yet everybody knows what it is.

ThreeGnochi.com?

Amazon.com
Google.com
Yelp.com
Manta.com
Foursquare.com

What does Manta have to do with business directory?

Originally Posted by zoro

Perhaps I should name the Directory something like .. "MyCity Restaurant & Accommodation Directory". What do you think?
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bizgrower

11 years ago

I'd say mid morning or mid afternoon Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday.
My check in time is 3PM - so 2:30 at the latest.

I'd avoid the city name because you don't want to limit the limit the area you work in.
I think more in terms of brandable - Yell Yelp Gumtree

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Mark Singletary

11 years ago

Wondering about the legality (as far as FB's TOS) of using the FB tabs after reading this: http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...-fbs-t-cs.html

Thoughts?

Mark

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zoro

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

Wondering about the legality (as far as FB's TOS) of using the FB tabs after reading this: http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...-fbs-t-cs.html

Thoughts?

Mark

Well that does seem interesting, thanks for pointing it out, I hope we can have some answers quickly. If we all send in a support question to SD re this issue it might better bring it to their attention.

Thanks

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savidge4

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

Wondering about the legality (as far as FB's TOS) of using the FB tabs after reading this: http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...-fbs-t-cs.html

Thoughts?

Mark

Not that I am a lawyer or any of that... BUT... the concern here is the adverts to the side, more so than the listing itself. Zoro, in your case, I would suggest one of the side banner ads would be for your services directly. Pointed I would say to a tab on the primary account of the business account page ( I hope that makes sense)

The remaining ads I would list other restaurants close by location, or food type.. Italian listed with Italian or joints on 3rds street.

I do not in anyway see this application of the tool ( social directory ) breaking any rules provided by facebook, in the use of facebook.

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zoro

11 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

Not that I am a lawyer or any of that... BUT... the concern here is the adverts to the side, more so than the listing itself. Zoro, in your case, I would suggest one of the side banner ads would be for your services directly. Pointed I would say to a tab on the primary account of the business account page ( I hope that makes sense)

The remaining ads I would list other restaurants close by location, or food type.. Italian listed with Italian or joints on 3rds street.

I do not in anyway see this application of the tool ( social directory ) breaking any rules provided by facebook, in the use of facebook.

I personally don't think there should be any problems, after all it's just a directory, but I would like some clarification on the side Ads.

Thanks
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bizgrower 11 years ago

Originally Posted by zoro

I personally don't think there should be any problems, after all it's just a directory, but I would like some clarification on the side Ads.

I don't hang out over there and don't know who knows their stuff, but has this issue been talked about
in the social media forum?
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- zoro 11 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by bizgrower
  
  I don't hang out over there and don't know who knows their stuff, but has this issue been talked about
  in the social media forum?
  
  I did get a message back from their SD support. They say because it's just a directory as as long as the side ads are relative to the directory, it has full approval by FB.
  
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1001

11 years ago

I hadn't checked through this offline section for a couple weeks so missed this discussion.

Zoro, there is a guy named John Palma who is doing pretty much what you plan to do with putting tabletop tents and room cards in hotels for free ... pointing hotel guests to local restaurants.

Where it differs is that he has a mobile directory of restaurants. It appears to work very well.

I've listened to a couple of his webinars within a private facebook group ... and he has had 18 of the 20 hotels in his town place the advertising info in their rooms or handed out keycards with QR codes linking to his directory ... to their guests.

He then went out and sold places in the directory to the restaurant owners.

He freely explained everything ... but since has been talked into making a product of it ... which sells for $27. Well worth it because he explains all the nuts and bolts of how he did it, pdf's of all his material etc etc ... a really humble and likeable guy ... and defininitely not a guru.

I don't know if I'm allowed to link to the sales page, so you may need to pm me for more details.

Zoro, I'm sending you a pm. I'm in Aust too and would love to chat.

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shenigan

11 years ago

1001,

I would also like a PM with a link to Mr. John Palma's hotel directory product for $27 that you mentioned, please. I was unable to find anything about it on Mr. Palma's own Warrior Forum profile. Curious, huh? Thanks!

Sincerely,
Sean M Henigan

Originally Posted by 1001

I hadn't checked through this offline section for a couple weeks so missed this discussion.

Zoro, there is a guy named John Palma who is doing pretty much what you plan to do with putting tabletop tents and room cards in hotels for free ... pointing hotel guests to local restaurants.

Where it differs is that he has a mobile directory of restaurants. It appears to work very well.

I've listened to a couple of his webinars within a private facebook group ... and he has had 18 of the 20 hotels in his town place the advertising info in their rooms or handed out keycards with QR codes linking to his directory ... to their guests.

He then went out and sold places in the directory to the restaurant owners.

He freely explained everything ... but since has been talked into making a product of it ... which sells for $27. Well worth it because he explains all the nuts and bolts of how he did it, pdf's of all his material etc etc ... a really humble and likeable guy ... and defininitely not a guru.

I don't know if I'm allowed to link to the sales page, so you may need to pm me for more details.

Zoro, I'm sending you a pm. I'm in Aust too and would love to chat.

Thanks

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Underground

11 years ago

Zoro, do you know where I can see a demo of this directory? Do the sellers have one somewhere?

Thanks
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zoro 11 years ago

Originally Posted by Underground

Zoro, do you know where I can see a demo of this directory? Do the sellers have one somewhere?

I don't have the link to the sales page anymore but if you just Google "Social Directory Reviews" or go to YouTube you will easily find it.
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Mark Singletary

11 years ago

I love the idea of doing this on FB. I recently had my own thread about directories and housing it on FB creates a whole new set of possibilities and challenges.

From the TOS for pages I found this:

III. Page Features
A. Advertising on Pages
Third-party advertisements on Pages are prohibited, without our prior permission..

Wouldn't it seem logical that if I have a restaurant or auto parts store or whatever paying me (or I suppose even not paying me but just having a listing) to advertise on my page that this would be prohibited by FB without their permission?

Mark

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zoro

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

I love the idea of doing this on FB. I recently had my own thread about directories and housing it on FB creates a whole new set of possibilities and challenges.

From the TOS for pages I found this:

Wouldn't it seem logical that if I have a restaurant or auto parts store or whatever paying me (or I suppose even not paying me but just having a listing) to advertise on my page that this would be prohibited by FB without their permission?

Mark

No, you need to read the terms for Apps. Third party Ads are only a problem if they are not related to your App's product or service. Social Directory support tells me that everything is 100% FB compliant as it is just a Directory.

Thanks

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Underground

11 years ago

You don't have a business if you are using this alone. You're always at the mercy of the third party in this case, and have to abide by their rules and they can pull the plug at any time. You just have a potential method of revenue generation.

You should have a strong brand and website site to go with it , an app, loads of other branded social channels, an email list. This will give you a business that can survive being booted off of a third party platform like facebook. You'll still be able to serve your client base.

This by itself is a nice trinket. But not a ''can't turn down, sign-me up now'' proposition unless you have a mega amount of fans. The same way as a site by itself is not in terms of traffic.

Not with the way the average unthinking IM'er approaches things, of just buying a theme and thinking just replicating features of other directory sites will be enough. Superficial, low-level, me first thinking.

You need to have a new spin. And compelling reasons for why someone would want to pay for features on your directory in an amount that is worth it.

Upselling them the facebook listing too, with an active community there of at least a few hundred people that actually want to be there is one. A host-beneficiary deal with distributors is another.

I was going to recommend Heyo.com yesterday, which is another facebook app that lets you do deals, coupons, promotions and competitions as another card that strengthens your hand. They are an exceptional company, and adding those options is offering campaigns to people as well as a listing where they are likely to get hundreds of leads while building your fan base is a really good proposition.

Business owners have more choice and options for where you promote themselves than ever before. Facebook, twitter, linkedin, Pinterest, Instagram, G plus, Yell, Yelp, Google ads, real time bidding, print, tv, media, wordpress, storify, scoop-it, all of these offer real good platforms for promotion and even though most business owners don't know how to make use of each one, you need to offer them something very compelling with a ready made audience.

Limiting yourself to just a facebook page than can get snatched tomorrow is just not the best long-term idea, imo.

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iisark

11 years ago

Hi zoro,
Why don't start the directory on your own domain? I mean you will spend a lot of time and money on this project and on the end you will end up with business which is not yours.
About your question: If the directory will be for your city only, the best way is to visit the local hotels in person. You can offer them some kind of partnership so they will agree to advertise your directory. If i was on you, I will create the directory for both - restaurants and hotels. This way you can offer the hotels free listing on your site in exchange for advertising your services.

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savidge4

11 years ago

Originally Posted by iisark

Hi zoro,
Why don't start the directory on your own domain? I mean you will spend a lot of time and money on this project and on the end you will end up with business which is not yours.
About your question: If the directory will be for your city only, the best way is to visit the local hotels in person. You can offer them some kind of partnership so they will agree to advertise your directory. If i was on you, I will create the directory for both - restaurants and hotels. This way you can offer the hotels free listing on your site in exchange for advertising your services.

Better yet, create the hotel aspect of the website directory and use say expedia, and monetize the whole thing. front end and back end income is always a good thing

Thanks

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zoro

11 years ago

Originally Posted by iisark

Hi zoro,
Why don't start the directory on your own domain? I mean you will spend a lot of time and money on this project and on the end you will end up with business which is not yours.
About your question: If the directory will be for your city only, the best way is to visit the local hotels in person. You can offer them some kind of partnership so they will agree to advertise your directory. If i was on you, I will create the directory for both - restaurants and hotels. This way you can offer the hotels free listing on your site in exchange for advertising your services.

Yes, good point. But I really don't want to, nor do I have time, to do all the SEO tasks required for it to rank. SEO sucks and Google owns the web, so I guess either way I never really own it.

Thanks
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savidge4

11 years ago

Originally Posted by zoro

Yes, good point. But I really don't want to, nor do I have time, to do all the SEO tasks required for it to rank. SEO sucks and Google owns the web, so I guess either way I never really own it.

I think you are over thinking this. A directory, in any given niche has the potential to get good listings. its not in the directory itself, it is in ( in your case ) community information that will create the draw. Local festivals, and fairs and conventions. people are seeking this type of information all of the time, and it is this information that has little to no competition.

This falls exactly into my working theory of SEO generated traffic, vs SEO generated results. WHY would people be coming to your community? the examples mentioned above. WHAT services are these people going to be needing? Places to eat and places to stay.

Now that you have them, you also have a network of tools to make their trip "easier" you have the facebook directory they can access on the go. you have the Website that is going to allow them to better plan their trip, and MAXIMIZE THIER TIME spent. STOP thinking Directory, and START thinking on a user level, and the CONVIENIENCE your information service is providing.

The only added work needed for the directory is writing articles that will answer the above "Why". Simply put become a RESOURSE and not a list.

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zoro

11 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

I think you are over thinking this. A directory, in any given niche has the potential to get good listings. its not in the directory itself, it is in ( in your case ) community information that will create the draw. Local festivals, and fairs and conventions. people are seeking this type of information all of the time, and it is this information that has little to no competition.

This falls exactly into my working theory of SEO generated traffic, vs SEO generated results. WHY would people be coming to your community? the examples mentioned above. WHAT services are these people going to be needing? Places to eat and places to stay.

Now that you have them, you also have a network of tools to make their trip "easier" you have the facebook directory they can access on the go. you have the Website that is going to allow them to better plan their trip, and MAXIMIZE THIER TIME spent. STOP thinking Directory, and START thinking on a user level, and the CONVIENIENCE your information service is providing.

The only added work needed for the directory is writing articles that will answer the above "Why". Simply put become a RESOURSE and not a list.

Yes, I do understand that, but at the end of the day one still needs to generate traffic to the Directory, and that can only happen if you promote it either Free (SEO), or Paid. In my country there are so many local directories, it seems a new one every day. They occupy Top Ads and also most of the Google Places listings. Competition is good, but I don't have the time nor the resources to properly compete. On the other hand, Facebook already has all the traffic I could ever want by just paying a few cents for people to like the page and also for those who are interested in the service the directory provides.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to build a Local Web Directory, but it will be too hard to rank and if it don't rank, or you can't show the traffic, business won't pay for listings.

Thanks
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savidge4

11 years ago

Originally Posted by zoro

Yes, I do understand that, but at the end of the day one still needs to generate traffic to the Directory, and that can only happen if you promote it either Free (SEO), or Paid. In my country there are so many local directories, it seems a new one every day. They occupy Top Ads and also most of the Google Places listings. Competition is good, but I don't have the time nor the resources to properly compete. On the other hand, Facebook already has all the traffic I could ever want by just paying a few cents for people to like the page and also for those who are interested in the service the directory provides.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to build a Local Web Directory, but it will be too hard to rank and if it don't rank, or you can't show the traffic, business won't pay for listings.

I get what you are saying... believe me I do. You have to understand however that I am 100% behind your concept of the FaceBook Directory. the Issue I see the with this is TARGETING. I showed you the numbers already. Do you want to attract a local end user, or a visiting end user? This is the difference between drawing traffic and drawing profit.

You have more at play here than what I believe you are seeing. A Healthy FaceBook community gives you some things that you may be missing. IF you have a ALSO have a web based directory, and post community related articles as I have mentioned, from the site to the FaceBook directory you have "instant" linking. Get those articles shared a few times, and you have an "Instant" Social Footprint.

Social Footprint + website = GOOD SEO

Using one of the sidebar advert spots that we have discussed here for a more complete community based web based directory, and SEO becomes the least of your concerns. YOU focus on facebook, and use the web property as a tool, that produces the content that grows both properties while focusing on the one.

THIS is a online Network model. For all intensive purposes this is the BASE of a PBN ( Private Blog Network ), BUT it is using a social element as one of its legs. As long as you maintain a constant flow of Community related activity that TARGETS out of town visitor interest, YOU will gain far more than what you think.

The reverse is also true in this scenario. The development of the Web based directory with sidebar advertising for the on the go facebook directory, is again good business. How many of all of the said competitors in your niche space are offering both? Where in the crowd would your USP stand? A hotel / Restaurant / Bar can spend their money on a Web based Directory, or they can Liston your mobile capable web directory that also has a UNIQUE FaceBook directory with far better reach and more direct communication with its community.

I am sure you have already, but incase read through this thread http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...an-better.html and watch the OP video. You can cut grass, or be THAT guy. I think in your niche space you could be THAT guy.

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zoro

11 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

You have more at play here than what I believe you are seeing. A Healthy FaceBook community gives you some things that you may be missing. IF you have a ALSO have a web based directory, and post community related articles as I have mentioned, from the site to the FaceBook directory you have "instant" linking. Get those articles shared a few times, and you have an "Instant" Social Footprint.

Social Footprint + website = GOOD SEO

Using one of the sidebar advert spots that we have discussed here for a more complete community based web based directory, and SEO becomes the least of your concerns. YOU focus on facebook, and use the web property as a tool, that produces the content that grows both properties while focusing on the one.

THIS is a online Network model. For all intensive purposes this is the BASE of a PBN ( Private Blog Network ), BUT it is using a social element as one of its legs. As long as you maintain a constant flow of Community related activity that TARGETS out of town visitor interest, YOU will gain far more than what you think.

I am sure you have already, but incase read through this thread http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...an-better.html and watch the OP video. You can cut grass, or be THAT guy. I think in your niche space you could be THAT guy.

YES, Yes, Yes ... especially this bit... ( Using one of the sidebar advert spots that we have discussed here for a more complete community based web based directory, and SEO becomes the least of your concerns. YOU focus on facebook, and use the web property as a tool, that produces the content that grows both properties while focusing on the one ).

Thanks so much for lending me your brain power ... mine was in dumb mode ... lol.

Thanks

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iisark

11 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

Now that you have them, you also have a network of tools to make their trip "easier" you have the facebook directory they can access on the go. you have the Website that is going to allow them to better plan their trip, and MAXIMIZE THIER TIME spent. STOP thinking Directory, and START thinking on a user level, and the CONVIENIENCE your information service is providing.

Totally agree on that

Originally Posted by savidge4

The only added work needed for the directory is writing articles that will answer the above "Why". Simply put become a RESOURSE and not a list.

This is another story. I'm many years in this business and can say that you need a much more than this. To build a high quality directory you need:

1. Time & Money - there is no way these days to build high traffic directory using out of the box scripts/apps. Everyone can upload a database with local companies and start a directory for just 1 day. The directory will be useful for the users but not for the search engines. Why? Because there are thousands or millions of them. By this reason you need to spend a lot of time & money for research, development, design, marketing, seo.. You need to make a directory which will offer much more to the users than the other 1 000 000 directories. Starting a blog with useful local info is a very good advice, but is just a drop in the ocean.

2. SEO & Marketing knowladge - let's assume that you have enough time & money to start the project. But if you don't have a SEO knowladge, how you can tell your programmer to build your directory the right way? For example to hide empty category pages (few thousands of empty /duplicate pages are enough to destory entire directory).

I'm researching/learning/testing/creating directories since 2006 and still don't know everything about the subject.

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savidge4

11 years ago

In a whole lot of ways I agree with what is said below. I am building a national level directory as we speak... and to add to the complexity of it, its in a foreign country. I believe directories fall into a few categories, there are your blanket list type.. your basic local yellow pages. built to in theory service the local community.

Then you have the more national level niched out types. These ( as I see it ) are on the verge of vertical market space, but not quite there. I understand you target a specific, and then fill in with the verticals in that niche. If you are targeting optometrist, you will also list eye glass stores contact places. but do you stop there? or do you add other horizontals into the equation. ( I seriously could be and probably am wrong about this... I wont and don't ever fess to playing in this realm of these types of directories - just basing my "opinion" on what I see on the net. )

Then there is the localized niche type as Zoro is suggesting. He has REALLY niched his down, and I think we all can see the potential in broadening the reach with this. But this is where things kind of change a bit. this IS a vertical based model. This IS hospitality. The client for any one of his listed business can and will be a client of others he lists. Be it hotels or restaurants, or bars, or convention centers, or community events or amusement parks or whatever else is available.

I don't think ALL communities have this possibility. I know the one I live in doesn't.. or should I say have one worth going after.

What I believe to be of value here is not so much the listings themselves, but WHO you bring in front of them. and the ultimate question becomes HOW do you bring those "WHO's" in front of it.

Before I throw out the WHO and HOW let me take this a step further and look at WHY.

Las Vegas: Rodeo in December, Prize Fights, getting married by Elvis, CES, Nascar

NYC: Pick a Parade, Shopping on 5th Avenue, Pick a convention, Theater, Museums, dog shows

Orlando: Disney, Sea World, Whatever Studios ( drawing a blank ), Disney New Years

Myrtle Beach SC: Golf, the Beach, Bike Week ( all 3 of them )

These are all reasons WHY people goto these places. Understanding where your physical people to your town traffic is coming from and WHY becomes obviously important. This becomes the base of WHO you are targeting on your directory.

So then you bring back in the 3rd element and HOW do you do this? you specifically target WHY people are coming, through the use of CONTENT. This WHY Content now places your Directory in CONTEXT to the end user. If me, the end user is going to Vegas to CES.. what hotels are close by? where should I eat? Oh look I can go see this show, I can do this, I can do that.

Often times the WHY is SEO low laying fruit. Understanding and staying ahead of your market, in this aspect of things helps a ton. I, back in the day, had a directory in Vegas. The thing I learned early on, is to be ahead of the curve. as an example look at the search results for "CES Las Vegas" - something like 85 million relevant pages. now look at "CES Las Vegas 2016" there are currently only 6 million relevant pages.

If overall success is driven by positioning, how do you work that with that example in particular? you think you have an answer? now look at "CES Las Vegas 2017" or even "CES Las Vegas 2018"

SEO practices as it pertains to content in the hospitality industry are not dictated by today and or yesterday, it is looking forward a year from now, 2 and 3 years in some markets. Positioning your content well in advance and dictating market hold based on page performance prior to everyone else jumping on the band wagon.

THIS is the high level game that is played. Look again at 2017 and 2018. #1 listing for 2018 is guess what? A directory. 2017? not #1 but what 5 of the 10... the strip club listing btw is a "Directory"

Content as I see it, is what separates a "Useful Reference", from a "Directory". If a directory draws traffic over time dependent on the directory listing as its content, then YES.. time and money. Given the Niche is correct to do so, and reverse the traffic and come in from the content end, and use the directory again as a aided reference to the end user, and the game changes.

Originally Posted by iisark

1. Time & Money - there is no way these days to build high traffic directory using out of the box scripts/apps. Everyone can upload a database with local companies and start a directory for just 1 day. The directory will be useful for the users but not for the search engines. Why? Because there are thousands or millions of them. By this reason you need to spend a lot of time & money for research, development, design, marketing, seo.. You need to make a directory which will offer much more to the users than the other 1 000 000 directories. Starting a blog with useful local info is a very good advice, but is just a drop in the ocean.

2. SEO & Marketing knowladge - let's assume that you have enough time & money to start the project. But if you don't have a SEO knowladge, how you can tell your programmer to build your directory the right way? For example to hide empty category pages (few thousands of empty /duplicate pages are enough to destory entire directory).

I'm researching/learning/testing/creating directories since 2006 and still don't know everything about the subject.

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zoro

11 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

Content as I see it, is what separates a "Useful Reference", from a "Directory". If a directory draws traffic over time dependent on the directory listing as its content, then YES.. time and money. Given the Niche is correct to do so, and reverse the traffic and come in from the content end, and use the directory again as a aided reference to the end user, and the game changes.

Great info. So what you're really saying is: The best SEO is to provide content that users are attracted to because of its relevance to them. Just wondering how do you get them to find your content in the first place, what am I missing?

Thanks
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Freebiequeen1999

11 years ago

Yet given the nature of facebook, the "content" is fast moving and ever changing, you have to update that page constantly IMHO, offer contests, offer tips, giveaways, coupons...although you may not like coupons many people do

Facebook is great but it is short attention span theater IMHO - people agree or disagree with a "status" post...laugh at a cartoon or video, get sentimental about a heart felt "life" event post (marriage,new baby, passing of loved one) and so forth

cats and dogs...cats and dogs...dogs and cats....cute pic, cute duck

Regarding travel - look at pictures, read updates....
They also like to get coupons, ideas for trips, look at pics of restaurant food

I have been on a lot of cruises and for real info I go to cruise websites....but enjoy looking at facebook pages to get in the mood

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zoro

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Freebiequeen1999

Yet given the nature of facebook, the "content" is fast moving and ever changing, you have to update that page constantly IMHO, offer contests, offer tips, giveaways, coupons...although you may not like coupons many people do

Facebook is great but it is short attention span theater IMHO - people agree or disagree with a "status" post...laugh at a cartoon or video, get sentimental about a heart felt "life" event post (marriage,new baby, passing of loved one) and so forth

cats and dogs...cats and dogs...dogs and cats....cute pic, cute duck

Regarding travel - look at pictures, read updates....
They also like to get coupons, ideas for trips, look at pics of restaurant food

I have been on a lot of cruises and for real info I go to cruise websites....but enjoy looking at facebook pages to get in the mood

So, if you saw my FB Ad about some great adventures and accommodation deals in MyTown, on your Timeline. Would that get your interest?

Thanks

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savidge4

11 years ago

Originally Posted by zoro

Great info. So what you're really saying is: The best SEO is to provide content that users are attracted to because of its relevance to them. Just wondering how do you get them to find your content in the first place, what am I missing?

By the nature of the topic... these pieces of content are low laying SEO fruit. Kind of if you have half a mind and get these listed they SHOULD list well for you. To put this into prospective for YOU specifically

The Great Australia Day Beach Party
Cairns Chinese New Years
Chinchilla Melon Festival
Big Croc Hatch
Easterfest
10 days in the Towers

You are getting the idea right? ALL of these are low laying SEO fruit. and again ALL of these are reasons WHY people would be coming to Queensland correct? There are hundreds more just like these.

Part of the SEO equation is actually having something to SEO. Articles on 100 local events is a dang good start.

Then look at specifically what I said above, and stay ahead of the "Current" calendar trend, and post information on coming years for that event as well - as information becomes available.

The other part of this equation becomes the social sharing aspect of these articles. You WANT to share these on your feed. It becomes a matter of timing. somewhere in the 2 weeks to a month before, depending on the size and interest in the event itself. I would imagine, you would have a better handle on that than say I would.

SEO is REALLY not that complicated. you WILL list for these things with minimal amount of "SEO" work.

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bizgrower

11 years ago

Originally Posted by zoro

Great info. So what you're really saying is: The best SEO is to provide content that users are attracted to because of its relevance to them. Just wondering how do you get them to find your content in the first place, what am I missing?

1 - good content or videos will come up for people searching for events and activities in the area
Say a good, detailed article about a hike or beach in the area

2- links on the relevant websites and other social media users pages
relevant sites such as hotels, restaurants, local businesses, government sites, chambers of commerce and visitor centers...

3- you'll let relevant people, such as travel agents, tour guides, visitor center personnel, hotel managers and desk clerks know about your directory...

4- some outbound stuff like I plan to do with relevant Facebook groups, such as bird watchers
for my month of April

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Freebiequeen1999

11 years ago

One thing that bothers me about this (and many of the other ideas on here) is....how is this working for the guy who "designed" it and is promoting it?

I looked at his site and it seems to be a mock up - people are NOT flocking to join it

Facebook can be great but it can be "hard" - do you have a lot of friends personally on facebook ? Have you built a group on facebook? Hosted events on facebook? Have you managed day to day facebook fan pages, managed facebook ads and likes?

How many facebook groups have you joined? How many "strategic" groups in your field are you in, and active in? Have you managed a restaurant facebook page?

The "tabs" features in facebook are touted a lot but getting the average facebook user to get in to the tabs can be disappointing....they flit around
Contests or coupons in the tabs or apps show some results - but - just from my experience trying to post "information" (even good info) in the tabs section gets little activity

Finding good content is good in theory but it will only stay on the "feed" for a short while. You will have to watch your "insights" to see what time of day gets best results and schedule your posts accordingly.

You might get some clicks on well thought out info/travel guides/restaurant reviews but my facebook experience tells me that the posts that will get attention are ....women on the beach.........a dog in a bikini....a cat in a bikini....
cat plus dog plus koala bear with or without bikinis on the beach ...throw in a kangaroo and a snarky caption to get a good "viral" reaction <grin>

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zoro

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Freebiequeen1999

You might get some clicks on well thought out info/travel guides/restaurant reviews but my facebook experience tells me that the posts that will get attention are ....women on the beach.........a dog in a bikini....a cat in a bikini....
cat plus dog plus koala bear with or without bikinis on the beach ...throw in a kangaroo and a snarky caption to get a good "viral" reaction <grin>

I love these ideas for viral images ... makes me LOL, so I think others might too. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and ideas.

Thanks

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savidge4

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Freebiequeen1999

You might get some clicks on well thought out info/travel guides/restaurant reviews but my facebook experience tells me that the posts that will get attention are ....women on the beach.........a dog in a bikini....a cat in a bikini....
cat plus dog plus koala bear with or without bikinis on the beach ...throw in a kangaroo and a snarky caption to get a good "viral" reaction <grin>

What you are saying is dead on correct. all boring info and no "fun" and you will be cut at the ankles. It is very much in line with what Gary Vaynerchuk's book "Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook" is all about. how to give the social content that keeps an audience, and then stepping in with the right hook, or advertising piece. Hey look at this.. hey buy this.

I think it is Zoro's intention to remove the "hassle" of the tabs location and draw traffic straight to the tab itself. Yes I understand there is the front end, building a following etc, but its not that hard to do.

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Freebiequeen1999

11 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

What you are saying is dead on correct. all boring info and no "fun" and you will be cut at the ankles. It is very much in line with what Gary Vaynerchuk's book "Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook" is all about. how to give the social content that keeps an audience, and then stepping in with the right hook, or advertising piece. Hey look at this.. hey buy this.

I think it is Zoro's intention to remove the "hassle" of the tabs location and draw traffic straight to the tab itself. Yes I understand there is the front end, building a following etc, but its not that hard to do.

Not that hard? Do you do facebook marketing? How many friends/fans do you have, how much interaction? What is your following?

I have not heard of jab jab but that is basically what "works"...you have to have fun content.....not just sales pitch post after post.

Theory is fine - but practical experience is a better teacher JMO

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savidge4

11 years ago

Ill say it again... NOT HARD... and to answer the rest of your questions.. do you really want to know?

Originally Posted by Freebiequeen1999

Not that hard? Do you do facebook marketing? How many friends/fans do you have, how much interaction? What is your following?

I have not heard of jab jab but that is basically what "works"...you have to have fun content.....not just sales pitch post after post.

Theory is fine - but practical experience is a better teacher JMO

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Freebiequeen1999

11 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

Ill say it again... NOT HARD... and to answer the rest of your questions.. do you really want to know?

NOT Hard? maybe we need to merge this with the Blind leading the Blind LOL

frankly a lot of the stuff I see around here sounds good in theory but when the rubber meets the road...oh yeah...it doesn't

Some "ideas" here are just that - "ideas"

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savidge4

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Freebiequeen1999

NOT Hard? maybe we need to merge this with the Blind leading the Blind LOL

frankly a lot of the stuff I see around here sounds good in theory but when the rubber meets the road...oh yeah...it doesn't

Some "ideas" here are just that - "ideas"

So I will answer some of your questions... Some of my "better" target audiences are sports related. I have a soccer site in particular that does smashingly well. I have right under 50,000 likes on the page. I am constantly posting content. My daily engagement is decent, but not great. I will tell you that just before and during World Cup.. it was just short of stupid. More than 10 pieces of content / meme's that produced 10,000+ shares.

On average my facebook interaction for the site represents about 20% of my traffic, and represents about 30% of my total sales.

I have a site dedicated to skinny jeans. Again the Facebook page does rather well... 100,000+ likes overall and daily the content is better than average in the engagement department - better than the soccer site that is for sure.

Overall I pull about 40% of the parralled sites traffic from this community, and it represents almost 80% of total sales.

Please note that the 2 above examples are targeted 1 Male, and the other Female.

I have some local clients that I do work for that obviously will have a much smaller overall reach. Given the community at large in which I live is only about 40,000 and on average these fan pages have roughly 5000 followers. These communities are very engaging, and when we post Facebook only coupons and the like, there is a better than decent return.

My overall philosophy in regards to social media in general is to Engage first, and sell later.

My overall online philosophy, is to start the conversation first with the potential clients. Not about the specific product that I will be selling, but about what it is that may interest THEM - in regards to the product... then I draw them over to my sales message.

We are in a world where you have to learn to give and give to get. It seriously is NOT a hard principle to understand, and surely is not a hard principle to put into action. What does MAKE it difficult, is breaking the pattern of the "Whats in it for me".

The moment you turn those thoughts into providing information and a moment of silliness to your audience.. that is when you have them. you have built the subconscious need to support YOUR needs, in return for that information and silliness.

And I hate to be that guy.. but I am going to say it again.. Its not that hard!

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bizgrower

11 years ago

Since we are expanding the concept, you might look at getting funding from the government.
Tourism or promotions entities are very interested in promoting the area businesses, events and activities. If it's a small entity and budget, don't expect much pay - or do it as you civic duty and monetize as originally planned.

PS - This is something to consider even if you stick to your original plan.

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Underground

11 years ago

I was too harsh on this after seeing a crap review video that painted it in a bad light. Then I found one by the owner I think, who knew the in's and outs and could sell the idea. It's not just a trinket.

This is an great place to start with you contacting customers and getting them into your funnel. I don't think I've ever seen one as good as this due to the newness factor, as your customers will never have seen this, more than likely. You still need to create a business and brand around it. You have to expand. And so you get known as a brand that helps ____ do ____ rather than just a facebook app owner.

The like gate, where you bribed people to like your page with some free offering got closed down. The old flash apps got the boot. Google authorship got pulled.

The traffic from ads and how you can build an audience very quickly make this brillant. As you do gain traction you'd have to be in a coma not to recognize the need to siphon that audience into a database that you own and have built a good relationship with, like an email list or website, in case facebook changes it's policy. Or to recognize the many different ways this amazing field of digital marketing offers you to expand your operation and make it bigger than just a facebook directory. Also to serve your customer base to bring them in more customers so they keep paying you.

I'm glad you started this thread Zoro. I'm focusing solely on the directory angle for the next few months as a pre-launch list building, revenue generating, buzz creating strategy, and something like this offers a really great ice breaker and revenue source. A quality deal sweetener that differentiates you from other directories.

If you approached businesses saying you've listed them on your directory for free for a week and wanted make sure their details are correct and if they wanted add a banner during the trial etc (any excuse that makes you a welcome guest), then your email or call is not likely to be seen in the same light as unsophisticated spammers and amateur sales people are.

Then after a week, (in which you've nurtured them and got all the touches you need to build a solid know, like and trust foundation out of the way), you can upsell them on the paid listing or other services.

I don't know what price points people are going for and it's obviously to be correlated with the volume of fans you have, but I'd say you could get a fair few customers with this at 50 to 99 a month and easily be able to get 100 business owners in at that with just a few thousand fans, enabling you to get to 5-10 k a month. Depending on the size of your city and if there are many business of that kind.

I don't know, prices will have to be tested. You're going to need to spend a few thousand and get thousands of likes fast to really be able to put your prices up.

Either way, I've sought something like this for years as a great prospecting tool that is highly attractive to customers, can offer something for free so you draw in maximum leads who at least get to trial run, which is better than them not even responding, and it's not going to tax you too much just to add their details to an app.

This is a great way entry level product.

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zoro

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Underground

I was too harsh on this after seeing a crap review video that painted it in a bad light. Then I found one by the owner I think, who knew the in's and outs and could sell the idea. It's not just a trinket.

This is an great place to start with you contacting customers and getting them into your funnel. I donlt think I've ever seen one as good as this due to the newness factor, as your customers will never have seen this more than likely. You still need to create a business and brand around it. You have to expand. And so you get known as a brand that helps ____ do ____ rather than just a facebook app owner.

This is a great way entry level product.

Glad you found the correct info about this Social Directory. Everything else you say makes perfect sense and is the reason why I believe business will jump on board. Yes, it will take a little time and money to pre-seed a few business listings and to get enough page fans. Appreciate your input here. (:

Thanks

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Freebiequeen1999

11 years ago

IMHO you need traffic to make any directory a viable option.

Does the facebook page have traffic?

As far as travelers go - won't most of them simply go to Trip advisor /their mobile app??

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zoro

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Freebiequeen1999

IMHO you need traffic to make any directory a viable option.

Does the facebook page have traffic?

As far as travelers go - won't most of them simply go to Trip advisor /their mobile app??

Yes, traffic is key .... please read post above by savidge4 and I believe you might see traffic a bit differently like I do now.

Thanks
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Underground 11 years ago

Originally Posted by zoro

Yes, traffic is key .... please read post above by savidge4 and I believe you might see traffic a bit differently like I do now.

I was going to say something earlier about the idea of about passive search engine referred traffic to website being only one source or many, as I thought that was being suggested.

Business owners just want to get their offerings in front of the right people in sufficient numbers they feel will be worthwhile and is prices well. There are many ways to do this.

One thing that open my eyes to the many ways to get traffic online was when I found out about sites like similar web here. They have a great UI that lets you see where sites are getting their traffic. Great eye opener to be able to see how competitors in your market get traffic if that has ever puzzled you and you wondered how they were doing so well.

Here's the WF:

Connecting Site...
- Thanks
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Underground

11 years ago

I've fallen in love with this app and what is capable of. It's not a directory in the conventional sense. It's more like a promotional platform that gives businesses a direct route to sell and promote themselves in many different ways. And allows users and visitors to benefit too by connecting them with stuff and content they could find useful and want to engage with.

My own directory focuses on these niches and their subsets:

Accommodation
Food and drink
Night Clubs
Bars
Property
Recruiment
Education
Shopping
Events
Entertainment
Restaurants
Trades
Professionals

And this social app offers something for each one of them to actively create offers, deals,events, post properties, jobs, sell stuff, post articles and blog posts, build their list and generate leads directory, rather than just being a place they put their details in once, maybe get a review or two, and rely on the promise of passive traffic that isn't forthcoming. This makes the thing come alive and mirrors exactly what I've done with my site to a tee and allows me to replicate all the features on my directory.

This is a premium upsell to a free listing on my site that, if I market it and sell it well, like Chad does and make clear all the features and benefits, alot of people are going to go for it because they'd just be dumb not to take advantage of the capabilities this offers them. A premium listing on ghost town of a directory was never going to be a draw for businesses, but this is different.

And the idea of finding distributors offline to grow it in return from free listing is a great spin, that got me going on some old ideas I previously had.

One thing Zoro, why are you only focusing on only one niche with this?

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1 reply

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zoro

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Underground

I've fallen in love with this app and what is capable of. It's not a directory in the conventional sense. It's more like a promotional platform that gives businesses a direct route to sell and promote themselves in many different ways. And allows users and visitors to benefit too by connecting them with stuff and content they could find useful and want to engage with.

My own directory focuses on these niches and their subsets:

Accommodation
Food and drink
Night Clubs
Bars
Property
Recruiment
Education
Shopping
Events
Entertainment
Restaurants
Trades
Professionals

And this social app offers something for each one of them to actively create offers, deals,events, post properties, jobs, sell stuff, post articles and blog posts, build their list and generate leads directory, rather than just being a place they put their details in once, maybe get a review or two, and rely on the promise of passive traffic that isn't forthcoming. This makes the thing come alive and mirrors exactly what I've done with my site to a tee and allows me to replicate all the features on my directory.

This is a premium upsell to a free listing on my site that, if I market it and sell it well, like Chad does and make clear all the features and benefits, alot of people are going to go for it because they'd just be dumb not to take advantage of the capabilities this offers them. A premium listing on ghost town of a directory was never going to be a draw for businesses, but this is different.

And the idea of finding distributors offline to grow it in return from free listing is a great spin, that got me going on some old ideas I previously had.

One thing Zoro, why are you only focusing on only one niche with this?

Yes, I agree this is more than a Directory, it has so many other uses and benefits to both us and our clients.

Why I focus on just one specific niche is because I want the directory to be super targeted, instead of trying to be everything for everyone like the thousands of other directories.

I didn't quite understand what you meant by this statement ?- (And the idea of finding distributors offline to grow it in return from free listing is a great spin, that got me going on some old ideas I previously had ). Care to explain further (PM me if you like).

Thanks
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Underground

11 years ago

Originally Posted by zoro

Yes, I agree this is more than a Directory, it has so many other uses and benefits to both us and our clients.

Why I focus on just one specific niche is because I want the directory to be super targeted, instead of trying to be everything for everyone like the thousands of other directories.

I didn't quite understand what you meant by this statement ?- (And the idea of finding distributors offline to grow it in return from free listing is a great spin, that got me going on some old ideas I previously had ). Care to explain further (PM me if you like).

I have something to share with you and I'll pm that.

This might fall on death ears or it might be helpful to you but I'll tell you about where I'm at with this. I called it an idea, and really it's not. It's a highly lucrative thing, but you can only do so much at one time and I was going to put in on the back burner for a later date, but seeking distributors or ways to grow your audience offline must be a priority if you are doing this model. If you can get paid to do that while getting your stuff out to thousands or people, even better.

When I first moved beyond just trying to create small little agency and create a big local network of sites and looked to move into selling digital advertising, and have that creating leads for the agency in large numbers, I studied what other companies were doing.

This is Yellow Pages web agency (or ''offline marketing'' to use the that they link to from their site.:

https://business.yell.com/

Gumtree, and classified site here in the UK started for Aussie expats, have their site serving business:

DIY Ads | Gumtree for Business

Thompson (Search for a UK business with the thomsonlocal.com directory.)

Offer the same kind of marketing services to business:

B2B Email Marketing Lists & Services | thomsonlocal

With Thomson's they also still have a thick little booklet directory they mass mail out to people full of ads, as well as an app, and I wanted to create one myself. It's not feasible to do what they do because they are a big company who have been at for years and their booklets contain hundreds of numbers.

But it is possible to create a little print magazine and get paid to feature businesses and advertises instead. You use the genius Bob Ross method of every door direct. It would cost about 10 grand for the printing and sending of a 60 page magazine in the UK or probably less and you can have that sent to 15,000 homes in a certain location.

You then have to sell the advertising space. And the feature space: if you charge £2500 for the two page features, you still have 40 pages that can fit up to 4 ads on a page, which you could sell for 3-500 each, and more for bigger ads. Basically you can put companies blog posts and articles in your mag as features and get them sent out. You're brand and subscriber base is being build and grown each time and provided you sell all the places (which you'll need to do in order to cover the costs of getting it set out), you can make a massive profit just on that.

I counted the pages in an addition of this mag the other day. 60 pages. about 25 were little one page articles. The rest was ads. There was about 120 adds in that one little small magazine that goes out to 16000 people. They also have a little directory on their site:

Online Magazine Archive

You can buy magazine templates like that here: 1400+ Magazine Design - Magazine Templates | GraphicRiver

You can get an app like this for 20, and all you have to do is get someone to adjust parts of the code to put your logo and colours in an you have an app to give away too:

Mobile - Store Finder Full iOS Application v1.6.5 | CodeCanyon

So in addition to just the social thing, and why I've been trying to get you to think bigger, is because if you have social app, a site, a phone app, a marketing/advertising agency and a magazine you send out and sell features and advertising space in, you can really do really have a solid business with multi-tiered price points. If you want to do this business, you need something like that. We all delude ourselves that if we get a nice looking directory up and try to charge just for that, that business will go for it. That's a road to poverty and hardship. You're offering them not much doing just that and not thinking and doing business bigger than that.

I'm hoping to launch this model in the next few weeks, and am working hard but there's alot of tasks involved in just launching one site and still a good bit for me to do. The social app was a really good way to get people into the funnel. They can have a free listing. A £99 tripwire sale into the mobile and social app. I have a £297 and £497 promotional offer I can downsell them, if they don't want ad space or feature write up's in the magazine.

I'm not saying you can go out tomorrow and do this. It's not just a hairbrained idea based on wishful thinking. I will be putting this model into action very soon. All these models are solid and proven. You'd need to study them, deconstruct them, replicate them with your own spin, invest money to build them, hire the right people and sell it properly.

I have some great courses on newsletter and email marketing, to which this is similar and it can be systemized and run predictable.

You'd have to get people who work with Indesign on board, proofreaders, etc, and really create great marketing material and a script to sell this, but once you have them down it can pretty easy to create a mag once a month like this listing and have lots of people willing to pay you to advertise in it.

Here's a rate card so you can see the card of money top businesses spend on advertising:

http://www.lodgingmagazine.com/wp-co...diaKit2015.pdf

If you create good quality content, you can have far more than just hotels potentially distributing your stuff. Make thousands. And build you brand and authority in the market.

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Freebiequeen1999

11 years ago

Thanks for your info - sounds like it is not hard for you but it is for many <grin>

I am still not that sure that people will go to a tab on a facebook

I do confirm that you need something interesting , funny....short attention span

I have seen a lot of facebook pages that are nothing but ads for the owner of the business and fans drop off quickly

"Know your Memes"

Thanks
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Underground 11 years ago

Originally Posted by Freebiequeen1999

Thanks for your info - sounds like it is not hard for you but it is for many <grin>

That's because most them try to sell absolute ******* junk, like cpa or clickbank products and are desperately trying to polish a turd. Most products on FB ads I've seen are in this category.

Then others, who have proper sales funnels and good stuff to sell, make a killing.

It's no surprise Savidge's fan pages get that attention.

There are some niches that have massive audiences.

But with this product by itself, you are right. The guy who created did so for an IM audience, like most do. Not to do it himself.

If you have to try and sell using this alone, then you simply have to offer the listing for free and make your money on getting them direct leads signing up to their offers.

Charge 200, and skim 100 or 150 of yourself for running the campaign. 50 on their campaign will, with the right offer, get them leads they'll be happy with and more than they would with traditional advertising. This should start getting you some capital to develop other stuff to make this really go.

I can't see anyone saying yeah, ok, sign me up at this price unless you have a massive audience to start with.

Use this to get leads and then upsell setting up a campaign. You then get paid to advertise and build your own audience.

This will depend on finding restaurant owners who aren't as clued up as us. And some kind of guarantee that you can deliver on. Just money back guarantee if they aren't happy. Which they will be because you've bought them in leads.

You have to have some kind of upsell service Zoro. One thing I'll be doing is the same thing. I'll be chucking in creative design services like this, since I'll be offering advertising plus campaign creation:

http://codecanyon.net/item/tourism-t...review/9970402

60+ HTML5 Ad Templates | CodeCanyon

These kinds of templates have only just come on the market after a promo competition envato did to encourage designers to submit their designs.

You could get someone to customize them for about 10-20 dollars and your customers will expect to pay alot more.

Use the app to get attention and leads and then upsell them a service that will actually be worthwhile to them and get them what they want, leads.
- [ 1 ] Thanks
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zoro

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Freebiequeen1999

Thanks for your info - sounds like it is not hard for you but it is for many <grin>

I am still not that sure that people will go to a tab on a facebook

I do confirm that you need something interesting , funny....short attention span

I have seen a lot of facebook pages that are nothing but ads for the owner of the business and fans drop off quickly

"Know your Memes"

I was skeptical at first when I saw that the Directory was on a Tab for the same reason. Then I realized that you need to point users to the tab, don't just rely on the tab itself, you must to point them to it at every chance via - Ads, Memes, Videos, etc.

I noticed 3 days ago that Facebook now provides you with a Call-to-Action Button right on the Timeline Cover. Whilst I think it could be better, at least its another highlighted option to your Tab.

Thanks

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bizgrower

11 years ago

Maybe this helps here - Todd Brown - Facebook advertising, ROI, client acquisition costs, and engagement, etc.:
(I am watching it now.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=PMr9YQ4e_BE

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Underground

11 years ago

Originally Posted by bizgrower

Maybe this helps here - Todd Brown - Facebook advertising, ROI, client acquisition costs, and engagement, etc.:
(I am watching it now.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=PMr9YQ4e_BE

Thanks for this. Todd Brown creates great products on sales funnels. I'll make sure to watch this.

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zoro

11 years ago

I have also setup a directory for a specific finance niche and it's a national directory. Now I need to attract some free and paid listings. Problem is, email is not working for me, nor is Facebook PM"s.

Can anyone suggest a way I can get national advertisers on board?

Thanks
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savidge4

11 years ago

Originally Posted by zoro

I have also setup a directory for a specific finance niche and it's a national directory. Now I need to attract some free and paid listings. Problem is, email is not working for me, nor is Facebook PM"s.

Can anyone suggest a way I can get national advertisers on board?

Honestly, I would cold call. Most of those firms are probably pretty small in size so the chances of you getting the decision maker on the phone right off the bat is probably pretty high.

Half the battle here is going to be the pricing. Like I have said time and again on the subject, I would prefer to make 100 calls and sell 20 of them at $20 a year than I would make the same calls and sell 1 at $50. the idea is to actually fill in the directory as much as possible.

Call and confirm their free listing, get their facebook username, and send them a friend request. and try to make an upsell in the process. that is probably the method I would use.

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Freebiequeen1999

11 years ago

Originally Posted by zoro

I have also setup a directory for a specific finance niche and it's a national directory. Now I need to attract some free and paid listings. Problem is, email is not working for me, nor is Facebook PM"s.

Can anyone suggest a way I can get national advertisers on board?

What happened to the hotel directory? Are you still doing that? Were you able to get restaurants to pay for listings on the facebook app?

Honestly "PM's" on Facebook is not the way to get national companies on board, I doubt the CEO manages the facebook ,,

You might try Linkedin but you can't rush things there, you have to make some connections.
I also am a firm believer in "networking", getting to know people for offline marketing

Thanks
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zoro

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Freebiequeen1999

What happened to the hotel directory? Are you still doing that? Were you able to get restaurants to pay for listings on the facebook app?

Honestly "PM's" on Facebook is not the way to get national companies on board, I doubt the CEO manages the facebook ,,

You might try Linkedin but you can't rush things there, you have to make some connections.
I also am a firm believer in "networking", getting to know people for offline marketing

I am still working on the Restaurant Directory but discovered how much work was involved plus money for printing and traveling around. So I decided to build a quick Finance Niche Directory on Facebook so that I could better generate some income without need for travel and printing etc.
Now I discover its not too easy to attract potential advertisers via email or PM's, hence my question above. I think I will need to hire an outsourcer to make phone calls to businesses for me. As the old saying goes, delegate or stagnate.

Thanks
1 reply

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Freebiequeen1999

11 years ago

Originally Posted by zoro

I am still working on the Restaurant Directory but discovered how much work was involved plus money for printing and traveling around. So I decided to build a quick Finance Niche Directory on Facebook so that I could better generate some income without need for travel and printing etc.
Now I discover its not too easy to attract potential advertisers via email or PM's, hence my question above. I think I will need to hire an outsourcer to make phone calls to businesses for me. As the old saying goes, delegate or stagnate.

Have you thought about building a lead generation site, along with your facebook plug in , and get leads for this financial niche and sell them to the highest bidder, or sell to a few of them sort of like a mini thumbtack >?

Thanks
1 reply

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zoro

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Freebiequeen1999

Have you thought about building a lead generation site, along with your facebook plug in , and get leads for this financial niche and sell them to the highest bidder, or sell to a few of them sort of like a mini thumbtack >?

Yes, my Facebook and Mobile Directory App has Banner Ads. I'm using them to get optins and leads.

Thanks
1 reply

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Freebiequeen1999 11 years ago

Originally Posted by zoro

Yes, my Facebook and Mobile Directory App has Banner Ads. I'm using them to get optins and leads.

I think Linkedin would be a good place to connect with financial services people, also face to face...if this is a local city promotion type deal you could go to networking events, biz breakfasts and meet people

Brand yourself - you need cards, promo materials, all your social media and website should be the same theme....set up a company page on Linkedin too

build your own numbers on Facebook - these businesses you target probably don't have that many fans but you should at least have more than them...you could also set yourself up on other social platforms.

If you are able to promote yourself these businesses you approach will believe that you can promote them JMO
- Thanks
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zoro

11 years ago

OK, here is my progress update.

I went to 10 Hotels. I left each of them with a printed sample of the restaurant flyer that I would like them to place into their guest rooms. As two of the hotels had their own restaurant, I offered to list it for Free in the Restaurant Directory.

Because each hotel manager was busy at the time, I left them my business card for them to contact me if they were interested in proceeding with the restaurant flyer into their rooms.

Response after 3 Days = NIL

Guess I'll need to give them a followup call, but for some reason I'm not feeling confident that they'll proceed?

Thanks
2 replies

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savidge4

11 years ago

What was in it for them?

Originally Posted by zoro

OK, here is my progress update.

I went to 10 Hotels. I left each of them with a printed sample of the restaurant flyer that I would like them to place into their guest rooms. As two of the hotels had their own restaurant, I offered to list it for Free in the Restaurant Directory.

Because each hotel manager was busy at the time, I left them my business card for them to contact me if they were interested in proceeding with the restaurant flyer into their rooms.

Response after 3 Days = NIL

Guess I'll need to give them a followup call, but for some reason I'm not feeling confident that they'll proceed?

Thanks
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zoro

11 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

What was in it for them?

Well, that was my original question and the reason for me starting this thread in the first place. Because I did not know what to offer them because most already have in-room compendiums and brochures from local restaurant etc.

So, unless they have their own restaurant (I give them a free listing), all that's really in it for them, is being helpful to their guests.

Thanks
1 reply

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savidge4

11 years ago

Originally Posted by zoro

Well, that was my original question and the reason for me starting this thread in the first place. Because I did not know what to offer them because most already have in-room compendiums and brochures from local restaurant etc.

So, unless they have their own restaurant (I give them a free listing), all that's really in it for them, is being helpful to their guests.

Part of the schtick is to get them listed for free as well. Walk in with pre made forms. to get the free listing information. Set them up with a free premium listing or whatever. Break the form into 2 parts the free no sign or literature listing, or the full blow we want flyers in each room.

Lay it out for them... short term their rooms and guests fill the near by restaurants. as the guests use the suggestions, they will refer to your directory again for hotel suggestions. on future visits. You are making the offer free to them because you understand it is a long term play...

Above all else remember you are there to get that form filled out ( Sell ) handing out a flyer is well I'm sorry... weak. you close the deal or set a time to close the deal. flyers are for cute little kaolas! Are you a cute little koala or a mad wild dingo?

Thanks
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zoro

11 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

Part of the schtick is to get them listed for free as well. Walk in with pre made forms. to get the free listing information. Set them up with a free premium listing or whatever. Break the form into 2 parts the free no sign or literature listing, or the full blow we want flyers in each room.

Lay it out for them... short term their rooms and guests fill the near by restaurants. as the guests use the suggestions, they will refer to your directory again for hotel suggestions. on future visits. You are making the offer free to them because you understand it is a long term play...

Above all else remember you are there to get that form filled out ( Sell ) handing out a flyer is well I'm sorry... weak. you close the deal or set a time to close the deal. flyers are for cute little kaolas! Are you a cute little koala or a mad wild dingo?

As always I appreciate your suggestions. But please realise that this Directory is about restaurants, and the traffic is coming from the hotel guests.
If I were to allow Hotels to also have a listing the only people that would likely see it are those people already staying in the hotel or a competitors hotel.

Thanks
1 reply

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savidge4

11 years ago

Originally Posted by zoro

As always I appreciate your suggestions. But please realise that this Directory is about restaurants, and the traffic is coming from the hotel guests.
If I were to allow Hotels to also have a listing the only people that would likely see it are those people already staying in the hotel or a competitors hotel.

re-read the middle paragraph... it may be 100% BS.. but it just may get you in the door. Just add another "tab" for hotels.

The hotels have value to you.. what's their value in you?

There are actually a number of great answers in that question. There is local SEO value, if you have a desktop version of this as well. you become a "Citation" for their site.

You become an asset for their clients. the more enjoyable the stay the more likely they will return to the same hotel on future visits ( guest retention ) Guest retention usually also converts to guest referral.

Happy guest usually leads to good comments on assorted review sites.

You have TONS of value... but the FREE listing adds incentive.. lets them feel like they are getting something in return. something material. they will see it ( the listing ) They will be able to show their boss.. "look where we got listed."

Remember here you are selling it not schlepping it. ( Schlep - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary )

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Freebiequeen1999

11 years ago

Originally Posted by zoro

OK, here is my progress update.

I went to 10 Hotels. I left each of them with a printed sample of the restaurant flyer that I would like them to place into their guest rooms. As two of the hotels had their own restaurant, I offered to list it for Free in the Restaurant Directory.

Because each hotel manager was busy at the time, I left them my business card for them to contact me if they were interested in proceeding with the restaurant flyer into their rooms.

Response after 3 Days = NIL

Guess I'll need to give them a followup call, but for some reason I'm not feeling confident that they'll proceed?

Hi....are you using Linkedin ? connect with them there...drop a note to them?
Follow up....remember 10 is not much.

If some of these are "chain" hotels, it won't be easy - and may not be possible. I would concentrate on the private ones and the two that have their own restaurant. You could also visit some new restaurants - new biz are often open to an idea.

Thanks

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zoro

11 years ago

Update:

I now have 3 hotels on board who will display my restaurant directory flyers in their hotel rooms = total of 120 rooms.

The Restaurant Directory Facebook Page now has 103 real local Likes.

Question: Do you think this is a large enough audience to be attractive to local restaurant owners. Attractive enough that they will gladly pay for a listing. Or is there something more I should/can do initially?

Just asking for your suggestion and ideas before I hit the pavement to sell listings to the restaurants.

[ 1 ] Thanks
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savidge4

11 years ago

Originally Posted by zoro

Update:

I now have 3 hotels on board who will display my restaurant directory flyers in their hotel rooms = total of 120 rooms.

The Restaurant Directory Facebook Page now has 103 real local Likes.

Question: Do you think this is a large enough audience to be attractive to local restaurant owners. Attractive enough that they will gladly pay for a listing. Or is there something more I should/can do initially?

Just asking for your suggestion and ideas before I hit the pavement to sell listings to the restaurants.

First off well done Mate!

As to selling to Restaurants... In the area 4 - 5 blocks around each of those hotels. F yeah START SELLING. Potential traffic is no longer dependent on the Facebook likes.. its is visitor driven!

Post #14 of this thread I threw you some numbers. of the 120 hotel rooms you could expect a 64% occupancy rate of those rooms. so kinda sorta on any day there will be 72+ rooms filled, and 80% of those will be double occupancy. so 65 of those rooms will have 2 people ( 130 ) and the remaining 14 will be single ( 14 ) so those three hotels will have 143 people in and about that will eat on average 2 meals a day. ( I LOVE LOVE LOVE Numbers! )

So Mr Restaurant owner... what is that worth to you?

There is a rumble.. There is a roll of thunder.. Is It a bird? is it a plane? OOHHH Its Zoro the masked Crusader.. < ooo ahh > the Sales Machine from Down Under!

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zoro

11 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

First off well done Mate!

As to selling to Restaurants... In the area 4 - 5 blocks around each of those hotels. F yeah START SELLING. Potential traffic is no longer dependent on the Facebook likes.. its is visitor driven!

Post #14 of this thread I threw you some numbers. of the 120 hotel rooms you could expect a 64% occupancy rate of those rooms. so kinda sorta on any day there will be 72+ rooms filled, and 80% of those will be double occupancy. so 65 of those rooms will have 2 people ( 130 ) and the remaining 14 will be single ( 14 ) so those three hotels will have 143 people in and about that will eat on average 2 meals a day. ( I LOVE LOVE LOVE Numbers! )

So Mr Restaurant owner... what is that worth to you?

There is a rumble.. There is a roll of thunder.. Is It a bird? is it a plane? OOHHH Its Zoro the masked Crusader.. < ooo ahh > the Sales Machine from Down Under!

Thanks Mate.
I was thinking that what I currently have won't be attractive enough to the restaurants, but when you place numbers next to it, like you have, it starts to look more attractive. I just don't won't to burn my bridges.

Thanks
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bizgrower

11 years ago

Originally Posted by zoro

Thanks Mate.
I was thinking that what I currently have won't be attractive enough to the restaurants, but when you place numbers next to it, like you have, it starts to look more attractive. I just don't won't to burn my bridges.

There is a restaurant in my parking lot. (Very fortunate for me, it is a well run place.)
The owners are always asking me for a heads up on occupancy because they staff accordingly.
We have 33 rooms, annual average of 50% occupancy, 70% in season during the week, and 100%
on many Fridays and Saturdays with in season and/or events, and 2 to 4 people per room.

We have a print directory in each room. They advertise in it and offer our guests a ten per cent
discount. (We don't verbalize that discount our guests because I don't think it's necessary for
us to do so.)

I am putting together a spa/retreat package with local massage therapy/reflexology/yoga
people. Maybe a nutritionist, healthy food (logistically difficult), and education. Something
for you to think about as you talk to all these businesses.

Thanks

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bizgrower

11 years ago

Originally Posted by zoro

Update:

I now have 3 hotels on board who will display my restaurant directory flyers in their hotel rooms = total of 120 rooms.

The Restaurant Directory Facebook Page now has 103 real local Likes.

Question: Do you think this is a large enough audience to be attractive to local restaurant owners. Attractive enough that they will gladly pay for a listing. Or is there something more I should/can do initially?

Just asking for your suggestion and ideas before I hit the pavement to sell listings to the restaurants.

Is there a way to give top listings, or otherwise highlight, the restaurants nearest a given hotel?

Is there an exclusivity factor - "you're the only Italian Restaurant advertised in these three hotels"
and you'll be seen by potentially 80 rooms per night (or whatever average occupancy rate comes out to be).

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zoro

11 years ago

Originally Posted by bizgrower

Is there a way to give top listings, or otherwise highlight, the restaurants nearest a given hotel?

Is there an exclusivity factor - "you're the only Italian Restaurant advertised in these three hotels"
and you'll be seen by potentially 80 rooms per night (or whatever average occupancy rate comes out to be).

Thanks for your suggestions.

I do have the ability to offer them 4 different types of Listings. They are: Basic, Premium, Featured, plus the directory also has Rotating Banner Display Ads.

So I guess I could offer them a Premium Listing for the price of a Basic Listing, or something similar.

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Freebiequeen1999

11 years ago

Originally Posted by zoro

Update:

I now have 3 hotels on board who will display my restaurant directory flyers in their hotel rooms = total of 120 rooms.

The Restaurant Directory Facebook Page now has 103 real local Likes.

Question: Do you think this is a large enough audience to be attractive to local restaurant owners. Attractive enough that they will gladly pay for a listing. Or is there something more I should/can do initially?

Just asking for your suggestion and ideas before I hit the pavement to sell listings to the restaurants.

Best to just hit them up...fan our from the hotels themselves..

I doubt you wish to offer "exclusivity" cause you want to have lots but maybe you can offer a few top dog spots - "going fast"...
and those could be exclusive...only one of each

Keep working on the facebook liks but now you have 3 hotels on board...whoo...that is great...good for you

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zoro

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Freebiequeen1999

Best to just hit them up...fan our from the hotels themselves..

I doubt you wish to offer "exclusivity" cause you want to have lots but maybe you can offer a few top dog spots - "going fast"...
and those could be exclusive...only one of each

Keep working on the facebook liks but now you have 3 hotels on board...whoo...that is great...good for you

Appreciate your suggestions.

No, I don't wish to offer exclusivity, but I could offer them a spot in the Display Banner Rotator if they signed up for a premium listing, or something like that.

I'm finding it very difficult to generate many Facebook LIKES. So far I have been get LIKES by posting in local groups etc, but its far too time consuming. So I decided to run some FB Ads but they are costing a fortune, around $1.00 per LIKE, and this for me is way too much for my wallet.

If anybody here can suggest how I can get cheaper FB LIKES (real local people likes) using the Ad platform, it will be much appreciated.

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

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savidge4

11 years ago

At this point it is all about content. you need to deliver non sales related content to drive shares and likes. "If your mood was a song, what song would you be today" - "If your happy and you know it, Share this ( Big yellow smiley face )" Start sharing times and places of events and such. The sharing of events and such can be coordinated by location to some of your listing properties. hey in the area stop by Bills HotDogs or the like.

ABOVE ALL ELSE.. remember what Facebook IS.. its SOCIAL!

Again look at Gary Vynerchuck... Jab Jab Jab Right hook. Give Give Give and then take. start giving USE the 103 likes you already have as LEVERAGE.. give them a reason to REFER..

My big thing is the 3 cycles of business Aquire Retain and Refer. You acquired the 103.. not retain them and get them referring!

Originally Posted by zoro

Appreciate your suggestions.

No, I don't wish to offer exclusivity, but I could offer them a spot in the Display Banner Rotator if they signed up for a premium listing, or something like that.

I'm finding it very difficult to generate many Facebook LIKES. So far I have been get LIKES by posting in local groups etc, but its far too time consuming. So I decided to run some FB Ads but they are costing a fortune, around $1.00 per LIKE, and this for me is way too much for my wallet.

If anybody here can suggest how I can get cheaper FB LIKES (real local people likes) using the Ad platform, it will be much appreciated.

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sdentrepreneur

11 years ago

Hey Zoro

That's a tough path, going to take a lot of work. We built a Bar/Restaurant/Nightclub/Event directory here in San Diego. We are using a custom Wordpress theme. Our model is to rank through SEO, only add the best locations and make it exclusive.

San Diego Local Spots - Restaurants, Night Life and Events San Diego Local Spots

Still a work in progress.

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zoro

11 years ago

Update:

Now have 8 Hotels = Total of 300 Rooms

Thanks
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Freebiequeen1999 11 years ago

Originally Posted by zoro

Update:

Now have 8 Hotels = Total of 300 Rooms

Whooo whooo...you go guy )
- Thanks
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zoro

11 years ago

I hit the streets and visited 6 restaurants. Here are my results:

1 restaurant told me to P... Off !
1 restaurant asked me to come back after service 9.00pm
1 restaurant said the manager/owner was away on vacation
1 restaurant said she only relies on her first placing in google search and does not need anything else.
1 restaurant said they will think about it.

Not a really good start.

I think I might need to come up with a better sales pitch. I now also think it will take a longer to get paid listings than I had originally thought, but I will keep trying.

Perhaps I should employ a Philippino Telemarketer to setup appointments for me, ... what you think?

Thanks
1 reply

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savidge4

11 years ago

What time where you out? and please tell me the first day out was yesterday for you? If you were out today before 10am your time... all you did was piss people off after 10am until 11am maybe.. and then from 1:30 to about 3:30 pm is your window with restaurants.

Originally Posted by zoro

I hit the streets and visited 6 restaurants. Here are my results:

1 restaurant told me to P... Off !
1 restaurant asked me to come back after service 9.00pm
1 restaurant said the manager/owner was away on vacation
1 restaurant said she only relies on her first placing in google search and does not need anything else.
1 restaurant said they will think about it.

Not a really good start.

I think I might need to come up with a better sales pitch. I now also think it will take a longer to get paid listings than I had originally thought, but I will keep trying.

Perhaps I should employ a Philippino Telemarketer to setup appointments for me, ... what you think?

Thanks
1 reply

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zoro

11 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

What time where you out? and please tell me the first day out was yesterday for you? If you were out today before 10am your time... all you did was piss people off after 10am until 11am maybe.. and then from 1:30 to about 3:30 pm is your window with restaurants.

I went out yesterday and walked-in to those businesses between 2pm and 4pm.

I know its only a very small sample. I will need to work out best times and days to call for every restaurant, because they all mostly work different days and hours.

Perhaps a telemarketer setting appointments might be the way to go? This will prevent me from wasting mine and the restaurants time?

Thanks
2 replies

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eccj

11 years ago

Originally Posted by zoro

I went out yesterday and walked-in to those businesses between 2pm and 4pm.

I know its only a very small sample. I will need to work out best times and days to call for every restaurant, because they all mostly work different days and hours.

Perhaps a telemarketer setting appointments might be the way to go? This will prevent me from wasting mine and the restaurants time?

Take this FWIW but it would seem to me that there are only so many restaurants that are your target right? Restaurants close to the hotels. That means that the restaurants are way too important and few to be contacted by a TM, Philippine or not. Hiring a TM might be right for large numbers but not for small numbers.

Thanks

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savidge4 11 years ago

Originally Posted by zoro

Perhaps a telemarketer setting appointments might be the way to go? This will prevent me from wasting mine and the restaurants time?

I am going to assume you are working the Brisbane market. so we know that there are 3000 Restaurants in the area. Pretty decent size target market. The thing with this, is the market as decent sized as it is.. it is very closed in the sense there is not more and more to reach out to. Every burned opportunity is one less you could sign up.

Lets play this out a bit. you outsource cold calling. 3000 phone numbers. they connect with 10% of the decision makers ( 300 ) Given your prequalification level should be pretty high - what Restaurant doesn't want more foot traffic? So you should be able to qualify 50% of the 300 ( 150 ) Now we get into the close process. 10% is ok.. 30% is do able. so some where between 15 and 45 locations may get closed using the cold calling process.

I have a feeling... those are not the kinds of numbers you are looking for. and it can only get worse... Have you closed a listing yet? do you have an effective script to hand over to the outsourced cold caller?

I am going to say this one more time. I noticed 1 of the objections was they are #1 on Google. another was piss off. YOU are in a very unique situation.. and letting it slip through your fingers. Every Tom, Dick, and Harry is saying mobile this and Social that.

Does your Mobile directory even list in Google on the first page for any terms? Why would a Restaurant care about your Facebook likes when they probably have more than you on their page? and you want to charge $50 a month? I would throw you out of my office as well. - you need to bring VALUE to the table.

If someone says they have a #1 listing on Google.. and you say "Sorry for wasting your time have a nice day." how do you think that will work anywhere else?

So whats of value that you have. I have said it once I have said 10 times now. you have the listing in the hotel. forget all of the other crap - its all second fiddle. How many other sales men walk into these Restaurants and say they can list the potential clients information in hotels rooms through out the Brisbane area? seriously how many? is there more than 1?

They say "I have a #1 Google listing" you say "Congratulations! I have agreements with many local hotels that puts your information in each and every room and links directly to my mobile directory and Facebook directory. < show them one of the fliers that goes in the room >

YOU now have leverage, a piece of the advertising puzzle they do not have. A piece they simply can not go out and get for themselves. YOU have created VALUE. YOU have separated yourself from the other clowns running around selling Google this and Social that.
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Freebiequeen1999

11 years ago

Hi Zoro....NO a Philippine telemarketer would not work IMHO....the p off would be loud and clear (especially from what I have known of lovable Aussies haha)

why not pick up the phone yourself...during the "right" hours.....prepare them for a visit ....or just walk in more...6 is hardly enough....keep going..every no brings you closer to a yes

Don't rush the close...be excited...non salesy...don't rush the close

"Paint the picture"....talk in terms about how great it will be....all the hotels nearby....all the guests exposed to their info and ad and menu etc.....flatter them....paint the picture

When you sell to small biz owners you need to show them the benefits - and in such a way that they "see" it happening for them....techy talk, stats, blah blah...it all bores them
they want...more customers,more sales, more $$

Thanks

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zoro

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Freebiequeen1999

Hi Zoro....NO a Philippine telemarketer would not work IMHO....the p off would be loud and clear (especially from what I have known of lovable Aussies haha)

why not pick up the phone yourself...during the "right" hours.....prepare them for a visit ....or just walk in more...6 is hardly enough....keep going..every no brings you closer to a yes

Don't rush the close...be excited...non salesy...don't rush the close

"Paint the picture"....talk in terms about how great it will be....all the hotels nearby....all the guests exposed to their info and ad and menu etc.....flatter them....paint the picture

When you sell to small biz owners you need to show them the benefits - and in such a way that they "see" it happening for them....techy talk, stats, blah blah...it all bores them
they want...more customers,more sales, more $$

Thanks for your valuable comments, I will take them on board.

Posted from Warriorforum.com App for Android

Thanks

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zoro

11 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoro

Perhaps a telemarketer setting appointments might be the way to go? This will prevent me from wasting mine and the restaurants time?

I am going to assume you are working the Brisbane market. so we know that there are 3000 Restaurants in the area. Pretty decent size target market. The thing with this, is the market as decent sized as it is.. it is very closed in the sense there is not more and more to reach out to. Every burned opportunity is one less you could sign up.

Lets play this out a bit. you outsource cold calling. 3000 phone numbers. they connect with 10% of the decision makers ( 300 ) Given your prequalification level should be pretty high - what Restaurant doesn't want more foot traffic? So you should be able to qualify 50% of the 300 ( 150 ) Now we get into the close process. 10% is ok.. 30% is do able. so some where between 15 and 45 locations may get closed using the cold calling process.

I have a feeling... those are not the kinds of numbers you are looking for. and it can only get worse... Have you closed a listing yet? do you have an effective script to hand over to the outsourced cold caller?

I am going to say this one more time. I noticed 1 of the objections was they are #1 on Google. another was piss off. YOU are in a very unique situation.. and letting it slip through your fingers. Every Tom, Dick, and Harry is saying mobile this and Social that.

Does your Mobile directory even list in Google on the first page for any terms? Why would a Restaurant care about your Facebook likes when they probably have more than you on their page? and you want to charge $50 a month? I would throw you out of my office as well. - you need to bring VALUE to the table.

If someone says they have a #1 listing on Google.. and you say "Sorry for wasting your time have a nice day." how do you think that will work anywhere else?

So whats of value that you have. I have said it once I have said 10 times now. you have the listing in the hotel. forget all of the other crap - its all second fiddle. How many other sales men walk into these Restaurants and say they can list the potential clients information in hotels rooms through out the Brisbane area? seriously how many? is there more than 1?

They say "I have a #1 Google listing" you say "Congratulations! I have agreements with many local hotels that puts your information in each and every room and links directly to my mobile directory and Facebook directory. < show them one of the fliers that goes in the room >

YOU now have leverage, a piece of the advertising puzzle they do not have. A piece they simply can not go out and get for themselves. YOU have created VALUE. YOU have separated yourself from the other clowns running around selling Google this and Social that.

Thanks Mate.
Yes, I do know what my USP is (Hotels) and will be concentrating on selling it. The Facebook page is a bonus for them because their directory listing is also shown there via the FB App.
My main problem is getting to see the restaurant owners, because of the small timeline window available to me to call in on them in the available hours.
I am also yet to perfect a good opening comment for the sales presentation. One that will grab their interest and attention in the first instance.
As always I value and appreciate your suggestions and comments.

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Thanks
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bizgrower

11 years ago

Originally Posted by zoro

Thanks Mate.
Yes, I do know what my USP is (Hotels) and will be concentrating on selling it. The Facebook page is a bonus for them because their directory listing is also shown there via the FB App.
My main problem is getting to see the restaurant owners, because of the small timeline window available to me to call in on them in the available hours.
I am also yet to perfect a good opening comment for the sales presentation. One that will grab their interest and attention in the first instance.
As always I value and appreciate your suggestions and comments.

Posted from Warriorforum.com App for Android

What is displayed for the restaurants?

Something like these for openings:
"Do you want your menu in hundreds of Brisbane hotel rooms?"
"Do you want your share of Brisbane tourist's dollars?"

Thanks
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zoro

11 years ago

Originally Posted by bizgrower

What is displayed for the restaurants?

Something like these for openings:
"Do you want your menu in hundreds of Brisbane hotel rooms?"
"Do you want your share of Brisbane tourist's dollars?"

I have 3 listing options for them:

1) Basic = Biz Name, Address, plus a Tap-to-Call Button.
2) Premium = 400 x 500 Image or Video. Biz Name, Google Map, Website Link & Link to their Facebook Page.
3) Featured = Same as Premium except this listing is Featured 1st in the Cuisine Category. (Gets the most Eyeballs)

I show them live examples of the listings types and I also have a presentation folder.

Thank you for your opening line suggestions, I will work on it till I find the opening that gets their full attention. Walk-ins in can sometimes be a hit and miss affair.

Thanks
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BigFrank Banned 11 years ago

Greetings. I have been involved in creating printed directories for a very long time and online directories for only two, short years. I think that you are totally missing the boat as it pertains to online directories. There are many ways of making good money in the directory business, but unfortunately it’s not in selling directory listings, alone. I'm not sure if this will apply to you with the way you are trying to use FB as your main platform. It is geared more to those looking for a more traditional directory business model, but hopefully it will benefit you in some small way. If not, I apologize for wasting your time, My heart was in the right place. lol

Someone mentioned that there are upwards of 3,000 eating establishments in your defined market. The first thing you want to do is get all 3K of them into your directory as a ‘basic listing.’ Until you take that first step, in reality, you do NOT have a restaurant directory. You have a website with a minuscule number of restaurant listings which is of no value or interest to anyone. Not potential end users, not the restaurants and most importantly from a financial standpoint, it is of no value to you.

Place yourself in a potential customer’s shoes. You approach them to purchase a listing and you know that the first thing they ask you is not how much. A smart business owner is going to ask you how many other restaurants are in your directory? What do you think they perceive the value of your offering when you respond with the number 30, or 130 or even 330 - out of 3,000 plus? The answer is virtually no value at all.

Next, you send a postcard, or an email or even a phone call advising them that it is very important for them to verify that the information contained in their listing is accurate. Why is it important? For two reasons. First - you don’t want them to lose so much as $1 in potential business that you know their listing will bring them and second - you pride yourself on having the most complete, up-to-date and error-free directory of its type, in existence, anywhere on the planet - bar none. That generally gets their attention. You can also tell them that if it's not verified for accuracy within 7 days, you will have no choice but to delete their listing. If you are on the phone, get their email address. Send them a mail where there is link for them to opt-in to gain access to their free listing. I'm giving you a basic framework. You work out the details for your own situation.

Once you actually have that done you achieve the ability to say that it actually is the most complete and up-to-date restaurant directory in your market. Those ‘bragging rights’ are very valuable.

Be sure that when they visit your site to verify their information that the very first thing they see is a page that houses your most premium of all listings. That way, when they see their piss-ant basic listing they immediately want to know how they can get one of those amazing listings that they saw on the first page they landed on. Only a piker will want to have a basic listing once they see what is available to them. If you need to give that whiz-bang, first-class, Platinum listing away for free, so be it. If you wait until you sell one to show one, you are cutting your own throat. Folks have to know that something exists before they can want one for themselves. The more that you give away in the beginning, in an effort to make the directory appear that it has many restaurants paying for premium listings, the more premium listing you will sell after the initial seeding process. In year two, the folks that got free Platinum listing might pay because now they see they are competing with folks that actually bought listings in year one, after seeing the free listings they believed were paid for. Devious? OK. Guilty as charged. lol This works. I know it.

Personally, I maintain that there is much more money to be made through marketing ancillary products and services to restaurant owners that you will ever make selling directory listings, themselves.They can range from mobile apps and/or sites, videos, social media packages, printing services, reputation management, coupons, loyalty programs, events planning and there are many, many, many more. Selling directory listings? Cut me a break. That’s such small potatoes. Outsourcing the aforementioned products and services is where the money is. C’mon! You’re now a restaurant marketing consultant. Get them on a monthly contract for the consulting service which entitles them to varying discounts on everything you can provide, making your consulting service virtually free to them.

Imagine that you approach an owner and you tell him that a premium listing is $365 a year. That’s a measly $1 per day. First, if someone says to you that they can’t afford that, find a very nice way to tell them that they should padlock their doors. That’s beyond chump-change for even a lowly sandwich shop. They certainly can afford it. They simply don’t want to part with it. Next you educate them on how producing a nice video for their place would be a great way to engage potential customers as well as elevate the level of their establishment in the mind of the consumer. You tell ‘em that your videos start at $500, all the while knowing that after shooting some iPhone video and supplementary stills. you can get that video completed for around $50 tops, if you want to outsource it - and actually much less. I have never spent more than $40 to have really nice videos made on Fiverr after I wrote the script and supplied raw footage and stills. I could have made the video myself, but I could more than likely sell another video or two in the amount of time it would take me to do so. Knowing your strengths and weaknesses is part of the success formula. You can’t do everything, even if you want to think that you can. Concentrate on selling and let others do the ‘hard’ work. Either give the video away with a paid in full Platinum listing or give the listing away with the purchase of the video, whichever scenario is more appealing to them. You have given away very little to gain a great deal.

You tell the prospect that if they take a Platinum listing for a year, you’ll do the video for free, or $50 or $100 or whatever you need to make the deal work. Personally, I loathe the word ‘free’ (except for the basic listing). To my way of thinking, if someone is giving me something for free, 9 out of 10 times it will be worth absolutely nothing. My other mantra in selling is, “The best always costs more.” Use it. You do believe that you are offering the best product and value, correct? Then, ‘say it loud and say it proud.’ There are so many ways to make money doing an online directory that it’s mind-boggling.

But here’s the kicker. We live in a world where people want to go into business and they want to know the absolute cheapest way to get started and how they can make the most money for the smallest investment of time, energy and the aforementioned initial outlay of capital. Well, I hate to break it to you, but that’s just not possible. You can only get something out of a business if you are quite willing to put something into it. While doing an online directory of any type is much less expensive than a printed one, you will never do it on the cheap and succeed.

Now, I’m sure that there will be those that will want to argue my points. This posts is not for them. First - realize that I have only skimmed the surface, here. It’s Sunday. I don’t want to spend my entire day at the computer. Second - this post is offered only to make you think about other ways to accomplish your goal rather than proceeding in a straight line. Yes, if you want to put a telemarketing operation together and dial for dollars to land directory listings, that can and has been done. Not very creative thinking in my mind, but whatever works. I have trained and managed operations employing hundreds of callers. I would never employ that technique for this type of sale. You need to find what works best for you.

Here’s the bottom line. If you don’t start out by getting every establishment into your directory on day one, you are not interested in having a directory. You simply see a way of making money by having a directory but I can assure you that will never happen. Create a stunning, important, credible product that has no viable competition and you will make all of the money you want.

Here is the most important question you need to ask yourself, Which comes first, the chicken or the egg?

Cheers,

Frank
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Freebiequeen1999

11 years ago

I think Big Frank has some good info on a real "directory" but from what I see Zoro's plan is a facebook and mobile list directed at the guests of some local hotels (and anyone else finding it on facebook etc)

So I am not sure how overloading it with 3000 free listings will help him....that is a lot of work
and there is the factor of wrong listings (as we saw with that florida directory full of closed and mistake venues)

I think one approach that I would try is to try to stage this as an exclusive and sought after position...
and sort of act as if they know about it or should know about it

..."Hey just wanted to make sure you were included in our xzy ....we have some of the top hotels who will present this to all their guests - I know your restaurant is (great, popular, fantastic) and this wil be super for both you and the many new diners who will find you thru the xyz"

paint the picture, sell the sizzle not the steak..

"See..we have z hotel and x hotel and a bunch of others on board..and their guests will see this xyz on both mobile and facebook...we even have a qr code in their rooms to make it easy, so be sure you can handle all these reservations! I know your restaurant is fantastic but all have some slow times so if you wish to feature a time or day that you would like extra business, just let me know I am here to make sure this works for you (listen to them)

Now..we can put you as the featureed listing (describe) ...most are doing the premier list - that gives you oo/ooxxx.........(let them ask price) (listen)

give figures but never say price, cost , pay, payement....say "Sure we can do that on visa, mc, amex"...

if they balk....say "Oh...I understand you just want to give this a try, so let's go with the standard listing, that is still gonna get you in front of all the hotel guests and the others who are using Brisbanenameof biz.....all we need to get started is your info (take it down) and just the service fee to get you up and running, that is only ($35?) ...we can do that on visa, mc, amex...which do you prefer?

Now...this is a very basic outline of a script but it hits some things I think would help

assume the sale....don't say words like price, cost, pay, payment...say "do", "try" "get in on",

and use the plural "we"..."let's do this"...be one with them....

payment words are "take care of"..."do"..."put on your card"

in this approach you take yourself out of the equation unless they ask (listen)

bad pitch ...when you walk in be sure you don't say "Hi..I am Joe Brown and I represent the Brisbane Directory, I put this together on facebook and mobile and I got some hotels to sign up and now I am visiting restaurants to offer listings to them. I have several prices that are affordable and blah blah.tech talk, tech talk, blah blah"...

Pxx Off...get out ...LOL

Thanks
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BigFrank

Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by Freebiequeen1999

I think Big Frank has some good info on a real "directory" but from what I see Zoro's plan is a facebook and mobile list directed at the guests of some local hotels (and anyone else finding it on facebook etc)

Yes, I mentioned that in the first paragraph of my post. Honestly, I don't see any potential for the plan as currently envisioned, but my aim was not to take a whiz on anyone's parade. If no one tries new things, there will never be any. :-) That said, this is not a business model that I would have the guts to pursue.

Cheers. - Frank

Thanks
1 reply

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zoro

11 years ago

Originally Posted by BigFrank

Yes, I mentioned that in the first paragraph of my post. Honestly, I don't see any potential for the plan as currently envisioned, but my aim was not to take a whiz on anyone's parade. If no one tries new things, there will never be any. :-) That said, this is not a business model that I would have the guts to pursue.

Cheers. - Frank

Frank, thanks for your input and great comments and suggestions.

Here is where our directories differ:

Mine is a Mobile (fully responsive to iPads & Laptops) directory which also has a Facebook App Directory.
My plan is to first utilize the Mobile Directory and not worry too much about Facebook at this stage. Yes, I know my original thread said it was Facebook 1st and Mobile 2nd but I soon realized that getting Facebook Likes is not so easy or cheap.

So, my directory is suitable for Mobiles/Tablets/Laptops. It's designed to be seen and used by the visitors and guests of the Hotels.
The hotels have been given a full color High Gloss Flyer that includes a QR Code and a URL for those who don't have a scanner on their phone. These Flyers are placed in all of their hotel rooms.

Main traffic is driven through the Hotel's. No SEO required. (I hate SEO I thinks its BS and IMHO its not good to run a business that relies on a third party ie, Google.)

I have already added about 50 listings as Premium listings, with full color images of the various restaurants and/or cuisine. (copied & pasted from google images).
I will go and show the restaurants what their listing looks like and if they don't want a listing I will remove it and replace with another for that category.

Who knows, perhaps further down the track I will build a more full blown directory like the one you suggest.

Thanks
1 reply

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savidge4

11 years ago

In a whole lot of ways in agreement with BigFrank here. and I will tell you why. UX. User experience needs to trump all other things. An empty directory is just that empty. it does the end user.. the ones that will be spending dollars that make this whole thing work absolutely no good. So they wont use it.

You and I could go a round or 2 on your thoughts on SEO but I will refrain. Right now we need to get YOU and YOUR model working.

The first thing I would do. the 50 or so "Premium" listings you have.. take them out. Replace them with bottom of the line listings. I would like for you today / tomorrow to walk into YOUR favorite Restaurant and have a sit down with the owner. explain you are starting out.. you love the Restaurant and you would like to extend to them a free premium listing so that you can have an example to share.

This Restaurant... the "Editors Choice" Restaurant then becomes the upsell presentation. If they need photos get it done. if they need work on their text.. get it done. make this the Premier of Premier. And I don't care if the place is a "Dive" this is about YOU. This is about YOU feeling comfortable about talking about YOUR product and YOUR service. So why not use YOUR favorite restaurant?

Any restaurant you are going to visit... create the bare minimum listing. so the listing is in the directory when you go visit them. Show them the bare minimum and then show them YOUR favorite restaurant AKA a "premium" listing.

Think of it this way. by the end of the week... even if you have not sold a single listing you will have enough listings in your directory that will be of use to the end user. that means you can then distribute the flyers into the hotel rooms. Get the ball rolling. Moving and grooving shaken and bakin.. with gravy its all good!

If you get listings that are on the fence. Ask them if there is a day they do some kind of specials. Post the special to your facebook page. Start getting SOCIAL. tell these folks to tell them your directory sent them. then follow up the next day with a phone call.

Also share the crud out of the message on message boards etc. get the word out make it happen!

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zoro

11 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

In a whole lot of ways in agreement with BigFrank here. and I will tell you why. UX. User experience needs to trump all other things. An empty directory is just that empty. it does the end user.. the ones that will be spending dollars that make this whole thing work absolutely no good. So they wont use it.

You and I could go a round or 2 on your thoughts on SEO but I will refrain. Right now we need to get YOU and YOUR model working.

The first thing I would do. the 50 or so "Premium" listings you have.. take them out. Replace them with bottom of the line listings. I would like for you today / tomorrow to walk into YOUR favorite Restaurant and have a sit down with the owner. explain you are starting out.. you love the Restaurant and you would like to extend to them a free premium listing so that you can have an example to share.

This Restaurant... the "Editors Choice" Restaurant then becomes the upsell presentation. If they need photos get it done. if they need work on their text.. get it done. make this the Premier of Premier. And I don't care if the place is a "Dive" this is about YOU. This is about YOU feeling comfortable about talking about YOUR product and YOUR service. So why not use YOUR favorite restaurant?

Any restaurant you are going to visit... create the bare minimum listing. so the listing is in the directory when you go visit them. Show them the bare minimum and then show them YOUR favorite restaurant AKA a "premium" listing.

Also share the crud out of the message on message boards etc. get the word out make it happen!

What's wrong with showing them a Premium listing? My thought was they would like to see their name up in lights. If they don't buy I can either remove it or turn it into a basic listing.

Thanks
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savidge4

11 years ago

Originally Posted by zoro

What's wrong with showing them a Premium listing? My thought was they would like to see their name up in lights. If they don't buy I can either remove it or turn it into a basic listing.

I would say a few things:

Sales is psychology. People want what they don't have. if you display a minimal listings they will WANT the Premium one.
If they already have the "Premium" Listing ( this would be the assumption, this is what you would show them ) why pay for it - they already have one - again this would be a psychological hurdle you would have to get over.
If you have 50 or so Premium listings it becomes "normal" and would actually decrease its perceived value.
50 minimal listings and 1 "Premium" listing creates exclusivity - and unto itself can be a huge factor in creating sales.

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DABK 11 years ago

Like Savidge said, people are more likely to want what they don't have.

And, if you do it like Savidge suggested, you're really presenting very visually what they have and what they could have.

A while back, 3 years ago? John Durham had a thread about directories. Look it up, it had some great ideas.

The main one was that you put the top dogs in the niche on your directory, to have extra credibility. And, of course, some of them would be in premium mode... It makes whoever you talk think the top restaurants have bought into your directory... Social proof is a strong force.
- Thanks
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bizgrower

11 years ago

Frank's plan does give Zoro the flexibility to monetize the hotels as well.
It's a door opener to provide marketing services to any tourism business, I think.

I suffer from information overload, but I remember seeing an email about a
webinar from a hotel IM vendor about marketing beyond mobile. Their point
was that mobile is just about a given these days - all IM should work on whatever
viewing device.

--------

I previously mentioned being pitched a directory for Colorado. It was established
in the 80's as a print directory. The founder and his wife literally lived in an RV and
visited all his original customers. His daughter and her husband run it now, and it is print
and internet based.

Anyhow, their basic listing is $319 for a year, and the next level up is $550 or so. For all
levels, they offer a no hassle money back guarantee one can get after the year is up.
They've only had a couple of refunds.

I was thinking OP could offer a 30 day money back guarantee if needed to risk reverse.

Thanks
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BigFrank

Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by bizgrower

I was thinking OP could offer a 30 day money back guarantee if needed to risk reverse.

Honestly, no one can evaluate the effectiveness of a directory listing after only 30 days, nor should they try to do so. I would guess the reason mom and pop had so few request on their one year offer because in that time frame an honest evaluation of results could be determined. That can't happen in 30 days.

Cheers. - Frank

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bizgrower

11 years ago

Originally Posted by BigFrank

Honestly, no one can evaluate the effectiveness of a directory listing after only 30 days, nor should they try to do so. I would guess the reason mom and pop had so few request on their one year offer because in that time frame an honest evaluation of results could be determined. That can't happen in 30 days.

Cheers. - Frank

Risk reversal or reduction stuff is more about the person standing behind their offer
and giving the prospect assurance. It could be a 30 day, 60 day, 90 day, or 1 year
period.

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savidge4

11 years ago

Originally Posted by bizgrower

Risk reversal or reduction stuff is more about the person standing behind their offer
and giving the prospect assurance. It could be a 30 day, 60 day, 90 day, or 1 year
period.

The question is how do you quantify performance in this case? The easy solution is a printable coupon or a coupon that is on the phone... but then your great advertising offer comes at an additional expense to the Restaurant owner. so not only are they paying to be in the directory but offering a discount as well.

Things get a bit more complicated when the actual desired conversion is feet through a door.

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Freebiequeen1999

11 years ago

If you go back to the original posts, the product is an app installed into a facebook page,...creating a sort of directory within the facebook page...
Yes, I too had problems with this "model" as I pointed out the guru who was selling it only had a dummy demo , not a profitable business with it

IMHO the main point is that Zoro has succeeded in getting hotels on board....now...he has an opportunity to sell the sizzle and not the steak

He needs to target tourist type restaurants, near the hotels...and present this as an opportunity to "partner with these top hotels, present your restaurant to their guests for their dining choice"

Don't get involved too much in the "how" and "specs"...frankly the facebook page does not have that many likes....just partner up

No money back....set up fee and first month or 3 month deal ....

this in itself as is is not going to bring in huge money.....so forget outsourcing telemarketers and such

IMHO sell this as a "partnership" and opportunity to team up with top hotels...
"I don't want to see you left out"..... play them against each other if you have to...find out the first name of their nearest competitor

then work it in almost like a mistake "So Georgio, I still have that featured Italian restaurant space open but I am supposed to get back in touch with GINO this afternoon....".....pause...kinda whoops...hand to mouth...."Uh....yeah...I am talking with some others but i do love Giorgios and I can get you IN here if you act right now...which pictures do you feature? "

in this case Gino is the one across the street LOL

IMHO if this goes well, get more facebook likes etc....then could expand to other parts of the city...as it is this is more viable for the hotel /tourist area

Another thing is - don't limit yourself....hook up with a good wholesale printer and offer these clients menu, flyer, biz card, signage printing....hook up with a loyalty program and get a nice commission from that....if you can, design website, do social media, do logos, etc....or hook up and find a techy geek who can NOT sell (apparently lots of them) local and you sell and get nice commission

You might even then offer some sort of 9x12 restaurant mailers or hand outs

but ..right now ...get out there and close them...shut the door
sell the sizzle...act like you are doing them the favor..."Just wanted to make sure you were included"

drop names...."Jason at zzhotel said how his guests have raved about you and said to include you"

"Paul at yyhotel said OH be sure to get Giorgios in here cause our guests love that place"

Thanks
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zoro

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Freebiequeen1999

If you go back to the original posts, the product is an app installed into a facebook page,...creating a sort of directory within the facebook page...
Yes, I too had problems with this "model" as I pointed out the guru who was selling it only had a dummy demo , not a profitable business with it

"Paul at yyhotel said OH be sure to get Giorgios in here cause our guests love that place"

Yes, my USP is the HOTELS (I currently have 8 Hotels (300 rooms) and I plan to get more on board later. The Facebook Page at this stage is just a bonus, so for now, I can offer listings in it as a Freebie, it has close to 200 Likes. Those Likes are all from local people, not visitors.

I value your suggestions and what you're saying, and plan to attack more restaurants this week.

Thanks

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Freebiequeen1999

11 years ago

While I agree that you should NOT show them all the premium deal, I also think you have to be realistic

You actually have a limited number of restaurants to target - those near the hotels. You can't afford to give away too much - maybe you could give the first 5 a premium listing for the price of regular (the "service fee") and then show the others...."most are taking the premium listing as you can see"...

Work the hotel angle IMHO....and assume they would want to be included. "don't want to leave YOUR restaurant out....everyone over at xxxhotel said their guests have raved about you"

I used to travel a lot with a sales job, as a woman alone or with another (female) team member we always looked for a place near the hotel/motel ...or ordered in pizza or chinese food...yes, we used those "promo" cards,menus found in the hotel or in the lobby

Don't overthink it and overcomplicate it. Name drop. Assume the sale. Act like you are doing them the favor. Act like there is some exclusivity. "Qualify" them...."you could handle the extra diners right? Cause this is going to be in every room, at the front desk....zzzhotel said how many people ask where to eat...so I want to make sure you can handle this"

I would simply act as if the (basic) fee was a service fee..no big deal....act shocked if they even balk at that....monkey see monkey do....others are doing it....they will be in front of the hotel guests...
name drop...take the "I" out of your pitch...use "we"....put it in your head that you are simply finding the best places to "Partner" with these great hotels...you are doing them a favor.
"Now, we can put that on visa, master, amex...which is best for you?"

Thanks

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zoro

11 years ago

Update:

Went out today and walked into 11 restaurants, here are my results:

8 said most people just Google for the cuisine type they're interested in, and could not see any value nor any reason why they should pay for something that's readily available via Google for Free.

They all said I had a good concept, but that visitors will just use Google when they are sitting in their hotel rooms. So I guess all I'm really trying to sell them on, is the convenience factor, but they won't pay for that. Not even at Dollar per day ($29 p/m)

I was talking to the Italian restaurant owner, he already had 4 couples in his restaurant at 11.00 am. He said to me, "John, why don't we ask one of the couples how they found my restaurant", I said OK lets. So we went over to a table and he asked the young couple that same question. Instantly they said, we found you on Google on our Mobile Phone.

I myself also checked, and sure enough, when you type in Italian Restaurant + Suburb, up comes the Google Map Places, his restaurant was listed third.

I also noticed that the other 8 spots on Google's first page were all Restaurant Directories ... Lol, How can I compete.

2 restaurants seemed interested, but they needed to talk with their business partner and so they asked my to come back next week.

1 restaurant was rude and he said, "If I see another bloody Directory salesman, I'll shoot him"....LOL

So again, No Sales today .. lol.

Yes, the Hotel strategy I have seems good, but they (restaurants) don't want to pay just for the convenience of guests, when they can sit in their hotel room and just Google it.

I am going to re-think this whole biz model, because the way it stands now, it ain't gonna work. Because of Google and all the dozens of other Restaurant Directories there is a lot of competition.

Thanks
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savidge4

11 years ago

Originally Posted by zoro

8 said most people just Google for the cuisine type they're interested in, and could not see any value nor any reason why they should pay for something that's readily available via Google for Free.

First of all great job with getting out to 11 prospects! that's awesome.

I will tell you the lines I would have used in those situations where they have a Google listing and rely on it. I would have said "Do you want to keep that listing? Google makes changes all the time and the chances of you keeping that over time decrease with every change that Google makes. My listing may not appear to do you good today, but consider it insurance for tomorrow.

The advantages of listing with me today is the combination of online and offline advertising - something Google does not offer. Something that most of the other directories do not offer. One of the ways to keep your ranking with Google is to create back links. preferably local based back links. That is something that's created with my service."

I would then have a sheet of paper with some of the recent Google comments in regards to "Mobilegeddon" Giving the date that Google was to make mobile a priority, and the importance of a mobile page for them to keep their listings. Again play up the importance of mobile.. and more importantly the importance of mobile linking - something no one else in the market is offering. Your site is 100% mobile only. you have the added advantage of adding a social footprint as well.

Your pricing. I know you have read my thoughts on this... I go super low. I shoot for $10 a month or $100 for the year. I have in the past gone with $50 a year. ( granted I have employed desktop versions and that allows for me to monetize in many different ways. ) By doing this, and using the rational as above, you then are selling the backlink more so than the listing itself. YOUR listing is creating consistency and redundancy is message - its what's called "Branding". Having the Restaurant name and message in as many places as possible.

The other point to be made here is maybe you need to do a bit of homework before you make these sales calls. Find the Restaurants that are NOT listed well in Google to start with. Shoot for the low laying fruit. sure it takes a bit of work on your part. but it puts you in front of prospects that dont have the obvious objection. With 3000 Restaurants in the area... there are those that are not listed.

You seriously can not pull back and rethink after making 17 sales calls. You just have not found the pitch that works yet. you will get this I promise!

Thanks

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DABK

11 years ago

But you're not selling just convenience.

The top (premium listings) would go on a 8x11, laminated card that the hotels give to their guests when they check in. Can you arrange that?

Anyone who runs a hotel, would you give a laminated 8x11.5 page to your guests? If yes, under what circumstances?

I'm not, never have and never will, run a hotel. But I think if I did, I'd bend backwards (almost) to make my guests' visit pleasant, and having good restaurants at hand seems to do that.

Zoro, if you can do that, you're essentially selling the restaurants in the premium positions hotel owner/manager recommendations.

I stayed at some hotels in my life. I remember myself looking through the brochures they had at the desk and picking an activity / restaurant because it was on the hotel's desk.

I also remember myself asking whoever was at a desk things like: Where's a good restaurant close by that has...

Last time, I was in Toronto. They had a concierge guy who, in response to my question, handed me a 20 page booklet with restaurants, banks, coffee shops, women's clothes stores, museums, etc. And he talked to me for about 5 minutes.

He leafed through the booklet and told me, this is a good one, Italian. It's about half a mile that way. This ones good too, it's French, it's that way, 3 blocks and then 1 block left.

I went to get some money at one of the 2 banks he mentioned, I ate 2 times at restaurants he mentioned. I was there 3 days, found random places close to the various places we visited. But on 2 occasions, restaurants got my business because they were in the booklet.

That hotel had some 70 rooms and I'm not a one-of-a-kind traveler.

That reminds me, are you talking to restaurants close to 'visitable' places too, not just the ones close to the hotel?

And, don't go to the ones that are on page 1 in Google.

Originally Posted by zoro

Update:

Went out today and walked into 11 restaurants, here are my results:

8 said most people just Google for the cuisine type they're interested in, and could not see any value nor any reason why they should pay for something that's readily available via Google for Free.

They all said I had a good concept, but that visitors will just use Google when they are sitting in their hotel rooms. So I guess all I'm really trying to sell them on, is the convenience factor, but they won't pay for that. Not even at Dollar per day ($29 p/m)

I was talking to the Italian restaurant owner, he already had 4 couples in his restaurant at 11.00 am. He said to me, "John, why don't we ask one of the couples our they found my restaurant", I said OK lets. So we went over to a table and he asked the couple that same question. Instantly they said, we found you on Google on our Mobile Phone.

I myself also checked, and sure enough, when you type in Italian Restaurant + Suburb, up comes the Google Map Places, his restaurant was listed third.

I also noticed that the other 8 spots on Google's first page were all Restaurant Directories ... Lol, How can I compete.

2 restaurants seemed interested, but they needed to talk with their business partner and so they asked my to come back next week.

1 restaurant was rude and said, if I see another bloody Directory salesman, I'll shoot him....LOL

So, No Sales .. lol.

Yes, the Hotel strategy I have seems good, but they (restaurants) don't want to pay just for the convenience.

I am going to re-think this whole biz model, because the way it stands, it ain't gonna work. Because of Google and all the dozens of other Restaurant Directories.

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Freebiequeen1999

11 years ago

Well you have 2 on the hook, now close them, not free but if you have to discount, just do it.

I like the idea of a flyer featuring them at the hotels.....or maybe arrange to have all their menus at the desk?

I think the emphasis should be on the hotels..."include you" ...rather than trying to "sell a directory listing"..
try to not say the word directory....emphasize the hotels

Thanks

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bizgrower

11 years ago

Yes. Hang in there. As the story goes, you might be an inch away from gold.
From momentum. Also, from offering other services to hotels and tourism businesses.

As a hotelier, we do welcome flyers and any good information for our guests.
It's part of being in the service industry. It might not have to be something you
create. The restaurants you serve may already have the flyers, rack cards, and
menus... so it's just a matter of you running them to your hotels.

You may run into this. The print directory we have in our rooms is free to us.
All the businesses in the directory have paid for their listing in that directory.
The agreement does not allow us to put other local offers in our rooms. Lobby yes,
rooms no.

Dan

PS - perhaps a print directory is a service you could add.

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DABK

11 years ago

I'm going to bet not all restaurant owners know the part of your answer I bolded.

Originally Posted by bizgrower

Yes. Hang in there. As the story goes, you might be an inch away from gold.
From momentum. Also, from offering other services to hotels and tourism businesses.

As a hotelier, we do welcome flyers and any good information for our guests.
It's part of being in the service industry. It might not have to be something you
create. The restaurants you serve may already have the flyers, rack cards, and
menus... so it's just a matter of you running them to your hotels.

You may run into this. The print directory we have in our rooms is free to us.
All the businesses in the directory have paid for their listing in that directory.
The agreement does not allow us to put other local offers in our rooms. Lobby yes,
rooms no.

Dan

PS - perhaps a print directory is a service you could add.

Thanks
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bizgrower 11 years ago

Originally Posted by DABK

I'm going to bet not all restaurant owners know the part of your answer I bolded.

You are highly likely to be correct. My community is small and each restaurant is different.
So, it's not as competitive as OP's area?.

I have had one restaurant owner come by one time, during my four years, to check her ad in the print directory.

The one's who advertise in the print directory for sure have been told that it's exclusive for in room.
In a cut throat environment, I could see owners being on guard if they were sold exclusive advertising.
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zoro

11 years ago

Thanks to everyone for your kind words and support thus far. I will try and answer some of your questions and suggestions here:

1) I don't wan't to argue with them. We all know that Google is King. If I start telling them how Google constantly makes changes and how Mobile friendly websites are important, they will just think I'm talking BS.

2) I don't know about in your country, but here in Oz, there are a Quzillion number of online directories, and the popular ones all occupy the first page of Google. Most restaurants are already paying for listings in these online directories. If you Google "Italian Restaurant + Any Australian City", you will see what I mean.

3) I don't know where the City of Brisbane came into the equation (certainly not from me), because the city I am targeting is a small tourist city with a population of approx 60,000.

4) There are only about 40 restaurants and 20 fast foods in this city.

5) FYI in Oz, all Hotels have a Free Compendium placed in their rooms by a company called John Batman. In these, John Batman sells advertising to the local restaurants.

6) I have so far spent over $700 in printing, travel, etc

I am not one to give up easily, however I have been pursuing this biz model for over 3 months now and I have given it a good shot.
My thinking now is, to target small service type businesses and tourist places, and try to sell them Banner Advertising in the directory.

Thanks
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Celltactics

11 years ago

Originally Posted by zoro

Thanks to everyone for your kind words and support thus far. I will try and answer some of your questions and suggestions here:

1) I don't wan't to argue with them. We all know that Google is King. If I start telling them how Google constantly makes changes and how Mobile friendly websites are important, they will just think I'm talking BS.

I am going to be a bit coarse here so prepare.
If YOU don't believe what you say to your potential customers, THEY will never believe it. It's easy to prove those things, but I don't think you have the confidence. And it's not arguing, it's selling.

2) I don't know about in your country, but here in Oz, there are a Quzillion number of online directories, and the popular ones all occupy the first page of Google. Most restaurants are already paying for listings in these online directories. If you Google "Italian Restaurant + Any Australian City", you will see what I mean.

Which for me begs the question, "why did you decide to do a directory?". If you think that you have something no one else does, then sure this is a great idea. But I don't think that is the case. And if " most restaurants" are already playing this game, why did you think you would be a success at this?

3) I don't know where the City of Brisbane came into the equation (certainly not from me), because the city I am targeting is a small tourist city with a population of approx 60,000.

4) There are only about 40 restaurants and 20 fast foods in this city.

Thats amazing. I live in a city of 50k and we have over 240 restaurants. If there really are that few, I would again ask, why are you doing this?

5) FYI in Oz, all Hotels have a Free Compendium placed in their rooms by a company called John Batman. In these, John Batman sells advertising to the local restaurants.

Yet another reason why this might not be a good idea unless you have some feature no one else has.

6) I have so far spent over $700 in printing, travel, etc

Has to be mostly travel right? Are you not in this town? What sort of things have you spent money on? You could print a ton for $700, so it must not be that.

I am not one to give up easily, however I have been pursuing this biz model for over 3 months now and I have given it a good shot.
My thinking now is, to target small service type businesses and tourist places, and try to sell them Banner Advertising in the directory.

Why would any of these businesses want to be in your directory? Are you going to put all the restaurants in anyway? As many have stated in previous posts, why would they want to be listed in your directory? If the restaurants don't want to pay to be in a RESTAURANT directory, why would anyone else?

I have been reading this thread from the start and I think if you had shared some of these details early on, (a glut of local directories, the Batman, and the size of your market) I personally would have discouraged you. If you were a super salesman, I might suggest you keep at it, but I don't think you are. I'd pack it in on this one.
Sorry to be brutal. Feel free to keep at it. I'd love for you to be a success and prove that I know nothing.

Thanks
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zoro

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Celltactics

I am going to be a bit coarse here so prepare.
If YOU don't believe what you say to your potential customers, THEY will never believe it. It's easy to prove those things, but I don't think you have the confidence. And it's not arguing, it's selling.
Why would any of these businesses want to be in your directory? Are you going to put all the restaurants in anyway? As many have stated in previous posts, why would they want to be listed in your directory? If the restaurants don't want to pay to be in a RESTAURANT directory, why would anyone else?
I have been reading this thread from the start and I think if you had shared some of these details early on, (a glut of local directories, the Batman, and the size of your market) I personally would have discouraged you. If you were a super salesman, I might suggest you keep at it, but I don't think you are. I'd pack it in on this one.
Sorry to be brutal. Feel free to keep at it. I'd love for you to be a success and prove that I know nothing.

Thanks for your comments, not brutal at all, just reality.

I started it because I thought Mobile+Facebook+Hotels would be a winning combo.

I am now considering giving the restaurants free or cheap listings ($10 mth) and then also try to sell Banner Ad spaces to the many tourist businesses in this town.

Thanks

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Freebiequeen1999

11 years ago

WHY OH WHY does anyone think "Mr John Parma's" $27 offering will make them money (and yeah I laugh....people begged him to sell it and stop giving the info free haha)

Zoro's deal already has the mobile....this seems to have mobile...

the point is that restaurants won't jump on your lap and hug you and ask to give you money to list them

You must go out and get the sales, close the deal, shut the door, ring the bell
do it over the phone, walk in and close or set yourself an appt and close them

Zoro you have some hotels....you need to get a good pitch, a reasonable offer and go out and close.

You say 1) I don't wan't to argue with them. We all know that Google is King. If I start telling them how Google constantly makes changes and how Mobile friendly websites are important, they will just think I'm talking BS.

?? That won't change if you buy some other "plan" for $27 will it?

IMHO it is NOT arguing....it is 'OVERCOMING OBJECTIONS"

I have sold many many things...tangible, intangible...small and large....and while sometimes I was surprised with "lay down" (Oh yeah we were looking to buy a whole new room of facial equipment, in fact we want two plus 4 deluxe pedi stations) ...Yipppee....most of the time I have to overcome their "objections"

it is NOT arguing...in fact I often "agree" with them and then just keep on with my (benefits,advantages etc whatever)

one thing that overcomes many objections is "fear of loss"....no one wants to be left out

monkey see monkey do

Bottom line with most of these offline ventures you need to get out there or get on the phone and sell.
You can't let them rule your head, you have to believe in what you sell and be determined. Honestly the amount of pitches you have given is not enough IMHO

I am sorry that you spent $700 (??)on printing....did you factor in how much you can make from this?

IMHO this may be a venture where you get a minimal monthly (or 6 mo) fee from some restaurants, and build up other things to sell them from there, maximizing the good contact of the hotels on board

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Restaurant Directory..How can it be Promoted Through Accommodation Places?

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