I want to start selling local SEO and websites, but have some questions

9 years ago

Originally Posted by jarod b

I have been doing some research on selling websites and internet marketing, but I work a fulltime job and don't have the time to design, develop, and do the SEO. My goal is to consultant to companies in my local area and outsource the local SEO and website build if they are interested in my strategy and want me to handle it for them. Can anyone recommend some credible local SEO providers and website designers and developer?

Yes. based on my experience the best one which can provide the best SEO and web design is "yourself".
Do you have the experience to do it yourself? If you don't have any experience at this you can't really outsource it.
If you already have months or years of experience you could try to "outsource" but what I recommend to do is finding someone that you can completely control and watch over.
Don't just find indians or chinese guys over odesk or stuffs like that because they usually are really low skilled and never do things in the correct way.

Regards
Andrea Rillo

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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Andrea Rillo

Yes. based on my experience the best one which can provide the best SEO and web design is "yourself".
Do you have the experience to do it yourself? If you don't have any experience at this you can't really outsource it.
If you already have months or years of experience you could try to "outsource" but what I recommend to do is finding someone that you can completely control and watch over.
Don't just find indians or chinese guys over odesk or stuffs like that because they usually are really low skilled and never do things in the correct way.

Regards
Andrea Rillo

Whoops I missed yours somehow lol. But I have experience doing website production and marketing, but not any experience outsourcing. Do you know where I can start to begin outsourcing? I am looking for people in these areas:

Web Design & Development
-- Website Designer
-- WP Developer
-- WP Advanced Functionality Plugin Developer

Content Development
-- Copywriter
-- Photographer
-- Videographer
-- Copy Editer
-- Illustration Designer
-- Graphic Designer

Internet Marketing
-- Search Engine Optimization
-- Pay Per Click Marketing
-- Email Marketing
-- Social Media

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FantasticVibes

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Andrea Rillo

Yes. based on my experience the best one which can provide the best SEO and web design is "yourself".
Do you have the experience to do it yourself? If you don't have any experience at this you can't really outsource it.
If you already have months or years of experience you could try to "outsource" but what I recommend to do is finding someone that you can completely control and watch over.
Don't just find indians or chinese guys over odesk or stuffs like that because they usually are really low skilled and never do things in the correct way.

Regards
Andrea Rillo

I have found doing my own SEO is best. No one looks out better for your business than #1. If your website is turning thousands of dollars a week, then maybe it's time to hire a good SEO, social media and content company. If you have no experience in SEO, get a few years under the belt before selling it to others. Pete

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DaniMc

9 years ago

I think you are making the mistake of not taking SEO and websites seriously. Many people think because it has a low barrier to entry, that they can just be a gun-slinger and jump into the ring.

Would you consider selling architecture services with your plan?

10 years ago - the barrier to entry was very low. So your plan might have worked. Now, this is a serious business, with serious expertise, and serious work required.

So - I'm asking a few questions. If you answer them, I promise I will work with you, right here on this thread, to help you find a path to making more money.

1) What expertise do you have? What do you KNOW how to do?

2) How do you know how to do it?

3) What is your full-time job?

4) How much time do you have every week?

5) How much extra money do you need?

The right path may not be websites or even internet related at all. It is admirable that you want more, so if you will take it, I will try to help you find the way.

You are on the right path - step #1 is ALWAYS increase your income. A side business CAN be a great way to do it, but not always.

I've wanted to publicly coach someone for a long-time. I'm willing for that to be you, if you are willing to do what I say.

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mak25

9 years ago

Not to interupt this thread, but Dan you are one of the few people around here who I admire.

You are always wanting to help and give great advice. Like Nathan (iAmNameless), anytime you post something I make sure to read it.

Merry Christmas and have a great 2015.

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DaniMc

9 years ago

Originally Posted by mak25

Not to interupt this thread, but Dan you are one of the few people around here who I admire.

You are always wanting to help and give great advice. Like Nathan (iAmNameless), anytime you post something I make sure to read it.

Merry Christmas and have a great 2015.

Thanks so much Mak - it means a lot to me.

Merry Christmas to you too and I hope 2015 is your best year ever!

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topqualitymarketing

9 years ago

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Joe Mobley

9 years ago

I would have. I think that is just good marketing. I can appreciate that you don't want to go overboard but a sentence or two about what you do would seem to fit. No telling how many other viewers are looking.

But then... I'm not a Mod.

Joe Mobley

Originally Posted by topqualitymarketing

Contact me if you still need this i dont want to advertise here

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savidge4

9 years ago

Developing your Warrior for Hire post.....

You absolutely want to follow the advice of what Dan has stated. Keep your pitch humble and in line with the truth. you are just starting etc. Here I think is where some Marketing help needs to be applied.

You have defined the service you want to provide. you are going to offer your UI/UX design abilities. that's great... its focused, it will target well to the warrior audience. However... the samples you have are a bit of a stretch from the audience you are targeting.

I might suggest... building up some newer more targeted examples of work to display within your thread. I would focus on 3 different areas to be exact. They would be "Dating / Relationships", "Making Money Online" <-- I will get back to this one, and "Health / Weightloss"

Color selection for these examples is a bit crucial. I would tend to keep your color palettes ( using adobe color selector as a visual method to explain ) in the upper and slightly left ( brighter ) and away from where you kind of have your examples now, in the lower and right ( muted ). White background surrounded by black text, these images will pop off the screen more, being more of the focus.

With each design I might suggest 2 page layouts each.. what the Home page would look like, and what a Post page would look like.

UI/UX is obviously very visual by nature. so giving some clear example of page layout will separate you from your competition. The only real competition I can see for you is this guy: http://www.warriorforum.com/warriors...phic-work.html Look at the examples they use. they fit those targets I suggest you follow. Health, Money and Dating. If you look specifically at the part of his page that is selling Page UI you will see they are not giving other page examples. If you Specialize... you can capture this market!

Now in regards to the Making Money Online ( MMO ) UI. I would suggest a couple examples of this. One HAS to be a Forex page. For whatever reason, I cant explain it.. People that develop Forex sites tend to stay away from WordPress for the most part. THEY ARE your target audience.

Some additional add on services you could provide... The whole idea of this community we call Warrior Forum, is we are a bunch of online marketers. There is one thing above all else that's spoken about here more than anything ( when speaking about Graphics ) and that is CALL TO ACTION. If I were to farm out my Graphic Designer tomorrow... this right here would be my target. Well... CALL TO ACTION and Guarantee Certificates.

Anyways, Congrats on getting some focus, and I hope the above helps!

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DaniMc

9 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

Developing your Warrior for Hire post.....

You absolutely want to follow the advice of what Dan has stated. Keep your pitch humble and in line with the truth. you are just starting etc. Here I think is where some Marketing help needs to be applied.

You have defined the service you want to provide. you are going to offer your UI/UX design abilities. that's great... its focused, it will target well to the warrior audience. However... the samples you have are a bit of a stretch from the audience you are targeting.

I might suggest... building up some newer more targeted examples of work to display within your thread. I would focus on 3 different areas to be exact. They would be "Dating / Relationships", "Making Money Online" <-- I will get back to this one, and "Health / Weightloss"

Color selection for these examples is a bit crucial. I would tend to keep your color palettes ( using adobe color selector as a visual method to explain ) in the upper and slightly left ( brighter ) and away from where you kind of have your examples now, in the lower and right ( muted ). White background surrounded by black text, these images will pop off the screen more, being more of the focus.

With each design I might suggest 2 page layouts each.. what the Home page would look like, and what a Post page would look like.

UI/UX is obviously very visual by nature. so giving some clear example of page layout will separate you from your competition. The only real competition I can see for you is this guy: http://www.warriorforum.com/warriors...phic-work.html Look at the examples they use. they fit those targets I suggest you follow. Health, Money and Dating. If you look specifically at the part of his page that is selling Page UI you will see they are not giving other page examples. If you Specialize... you can capture this market!

Now in regards to the Making Money Online ( MMO ) UI. I would suggest a couple examples of this. One HAS to be a Forex page. For whatever reason, I cant explain it.. People that develop Forex sites tend to stay away from WordPress for the most part. THEY ARE your target audience.

Some additional add on services you could provide... The whole idea of this community we call Warrior Forum, is we are a bunch of online marketers. There is one thing above all else that's spoken about here more than anything ( when speaking about Graphics ) and that is CALL TO ACTION. If I were to farm out my Graphic Designer tomorrow... this right here would be my target. Well... CALL TO ACTION and Guarantee Certificates.

Anyways, Congrats on getting some focus, and I hope the above helps!

This is great advice and I think it should only be followed AFTER the post is up.

I see people get stuck in preparation mode all the time. It is a symptom of fear - always worrying that they aren't good enough yet. Or, if they could just fix this one thing or learn this other thing.

In my opinion - the best approach is Ready, Fire!, Aim - Get the sales thread up using exactly what you have. Offer the first 5 people absolutely free.

Then get to work doing as suggested by savidge4. If someone takes you up on the free offer, do an awesome job, then use THAT as an example - changing just enough to protect the client.

At the end of the 5 free clients, you will have good examples based on real work.

You should either be fulfilling work, or sharpening your message. When there is no work coming in, design examples and make your message better. When work comes in, focus on that, give it 100% - then when it is done, go back to working on your message.

This is where fear can stop you. You will find every reason in the book to avoid putting that thread up. DO IT. Don't be nervous about committing to the sale.

Everything we want in life is on the other side of things we fear.

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savidge4

9 years ago

I agree totally.. act first think second. counter intuitive in thought, but works wonders in practice!

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

This is great advice and I think it should only be followed AFTER the post is up.

I see people get stuck in preparation mode all the time. It is a symptom of fear - always worrying that they aren't good enough yet. Or, if they could just fix this one thing or learn this other thing.

In my opinion - the best approach is Ready, Fire!, Aim - Get the sales thread up using exactly what you have. Offer the first 5 people absolutely free.

Then get to work doing as suggested by savidge4. If someone takes you up on the free offer, do an awesome job, then use THAT as an example - changing just enough to protect the client.

At the end of the 5 free clients, you will have good examples based on real work.

You should either be fulfilling work, or sharpening your message. When there is no work coming in, design examples and make your message better. When work comes in, focus on that, give it 100% - then when it is done, go back to working on your message.

This is where fear can stop you. You will find every reason in the book to avoid putting that thread up. DO IT. Don't be nervous about committing to the sale.

Everything we want in life is on the other side of things we fear.

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jarod b 9 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

I agree totally.. act first think second. counter intuitive in thought, but works wonders in practice!

Well let's try it! I am going to post it in 3 hours from now and make changes later if necessary.
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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

This is great advice and I think it should only be followed AFTER the post is up.

I see people get stuck in preparation mode all the time. It is a symptom of fear - always worrying that they aren't good enough yet. Or, if they could just fix this one thing or learn this other thing.

In my opinion - the best approach is Ready, Fire!, Aim - Get the sales thread up using exactly what you have. Offer the first 5 people absolutely free.

Then get to work doing as suggested by savidge4. If someone takes you up on the free offer, do an awesome job, then use THAT as an example - changing just enough to protect the client.

At the end of the 5 free clients, you will have good examples based on real work.

You should either be fulfilling work, or sharpening your message. When there is no work coming in, design examples and make your message better. When work comes in, focus on that, give it 100% - then when it is done, go back to working on your message.

This is where fear can stop you. You will find every reason in the book to avoid putting that thread up. DO IT. Don't be nervous about committing to the sale.

Everything we want in life is on the other side of things we fear.

LOL interesting you say that. As I was writing up the initial copy for the thread and started looking at successful WF threads in my field, I started to wonder if HTML + CSS websites would be okay with customers. I am honestly scared people will backfire against my pitch, but I know from experience that having helpful people around has always helped me better myself. So I am nervous, but not so much since I feel confident enough that I will get some direction on this weakness. And I tend to be self-sufficient when it comes to resources, so I am not so much bothered if I won't EVER be able to do it. But still... just a bit nervous. lol *nervously*

Yeah I am going to give it to them for free, but as long as we discuss some type of payment before hand off. This way there will be no risk involved and I still get paid. Also... I found out that neuman guy dues this all the freaken time... what a coincidence lol. But this opportunity still gives me a chance no matter how I go about looking at it. I just need someone to bite into it now and give me that shot.

I like your idea there. Focus 100% on work when working, and focus on sharpening my message when there's no work.

I have to be honest. What you said previously about my history is true, and I won't share why, but I am willing to put all my fears on the table if you guys are serious about helping me make this work. I really want to commit to this business, and I'm willing to take all the feedback and criticism there is. My only concern right now is if I'm taking this help of yours too personal and if you guys will leave me out in the cold. I mean I really believe this is the path I want to take, and Dan seems to know my career path really well just by observation. Is this too much to ask for before we get into this? lol *nervously*

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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

Developing your Warrior for Hire post.....

You absolutely want to follow the advice of what Dan has stated. Keep your pitch humble and in line with the truth. you are just starting etc. Here I think is where some Marketing help needs to be applied.

You have defined the service you want to provide. you are going to offer your UI/UX design abilities. that's great... its focused, it will target well to the warrior audience. However... the samples you have are a bit of a stretch from the audience you are targeting.

I might suggest... building up some newer more targeted examples of work to display within your thread. I would focus on 3 different areas to be exact. They would be "Dating / Relationships", "Making Money Online" <-- I will get back to this one, and "Health / Weightloss"

Color selection for these examples is a bit crucial. I would tend to keep your color palettes ( using adobe color selector as a visual method to explain ) in the upper and slightly left ( brighter ) and away from where you kind of have your examples now, in the lower and right ( muted ). White background surrounded by black text, these images will pop off the screen more, being more of the focus.

With each design I might suggest 2 page layouts each.. what the Home page would look like, and what a Post page would look like.

UI/UX is obviously very visual by nature. so giving some clear example of page layout will separate you from your competition. The only real competition I can see for you is this guy: http://www.warriorforum.com/warriors...phic-work.html Look at the examples they use. they fit those targets I suggest you follow. Health, Money and Dating. If you look specifically at the part of his page that is selling Page UI you will see they are not giving other page examples. If you Specialize... you can capture this market!

Now in regards to the Making Money Online ( MMO ) UI. I would suggest a couple examples of this. One HAS to be a Forex page. For whatever reason, I cant explain it.. People that develop Forex sites tend to stay away from WordPress for the most part. THEY ARE your target audience.

Some additional add on services you could provide... The whole idea of this community we call Warrior Forum, is we are a bunch of online marketers. There is one thing above all else that's spoken about here more than anything ( when speaking about Graphics ) and that is CALL TO ACTION. If I were to farm out my Graphic Designer tomorrow... this right here would be my target. Well... CALL TO ACTION and Guarantee Certificates.

Anyways, Congrats on getting some focus, and I hope the above helps!

I get that you are saying my portfolio won't match the 3 markets you mentioned, but i get lost when you talk about color selection. Are you talking about giving my work samples a pop-off effect to give them more focus?

Also I took a look at him as well as few more guys. They do excellent work. But I noticed most of them are more focused on delivery and customer satisfaction but not so much on customer value. So my opportunity here is an educational process that is about teaming up with my clients and showing them more opportunities beyond a website. I think if I can turn my existing customers into long-term clients, i'll be doing pretty good and won't have to depend so much on new clients.

Unfortunately I don't know how to integrate my HTML & CSS websites with WP, but I am really interested in how I can do that efficiently. That Neuman guy you talked about earlier seems to be able to deliver websites in 2 days or less, so I think efficiency is going to be a really big deal with my clients since I don't know if I can deliver in 2 days. I've never worked with a client before, so this is going to be my first time dealing with paperwork, meetings, managing, and completing a project. I am also not sure how I'm going to actually use Paypal to get paid as well, so I have to also figure that out.

Are you talking about CTA buttons and certificate badges by the way? I think those are overrated... Sure you need a CTA to demand attention and a certificate badge to reinforce credibility, but pre-determined buttons and badges aren't everything. In the end, it's all about design strategy and how your website copy and design elements will work together to guide a visitor from home page to the final CTA (requesting a quote, checkout, etc.).

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savidge4

9 years ago

Originally Posted by jarod b

Also I took a look at him as well as few more guys. They do excellent work. But I noticed most of them are more focused on delivery and customer satisfaction but not so much on customer value. So my opportunity here is an educational process that is about teaming up with my clients and showing them more opportunities beyond a website. I think if I can turn my existing customers into long-term clients, i'll be doing pretty good and won't have to depend so much on new clients..

STOP right there... Your prior experience allows you the opportunity to educate a client based on what? you are a designer.. plain and simple. Delivery and Customer satisfaction are THE KEY to your success... the rest will come later, when YOU have the experience to do so.

Originally Posted by jarod b

Are you talking about CTA buttons and certificate badges by the way? I think those are overrated... Sure you need a CTA to demand attention and a certificate badge to reinforce credibility, but pre-determined buttons and badges aren't everything. In the end, it's all about design strategy and how your website copy and design elements will work together to guide a visitor from home page to the final CTA (requesting a quote, checkout, etc.).

Over rated? ok... just start with your page layouts for now.. we can discuss the errors in this statement at a later point. Right now your PRIMARY focus is on page layout and page layout only. Be the Best UI/UX guy you can be, and from that you can expand your services.

In regards to colors... again that is a stage for later.. right now just focus as instructed to get your listing up, and I am more than sure Dan will walk you through any issues you may have. Forget what everyone else is saying - myself included, and follow Dans lead.. you are in great hands, and headed in better than the right direction.

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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

STOP right there... Your prior experience allows you the opportunity to educate a client based on what? you are a designer.. plain and simple. Delivery and Customer satisfaction are THE KEY to your success... the rest will come later, when YOU have the experience to do so.

Over rated? ok... just start with your page layouts for now.. we can discuss the errors in this statement at a later point. Right now your PRIMARY focus is on page layout and page layout only. Be the Best UI/UX guy you can be, and from that you can expand your services.

In regards to colors... again that is a stage for later.. right now just focus as instructed to get your listing up, and I am more than sure Dan will walk you through any issues you may have. Forget what everyone else is saying - myself included, and follow Dans lead.. you are in great hands, and headed in better than the right direction.

Well I am going to post my for hire thread right now. Let me know if my message and services are doing okay.

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DaniMc

9 years ago

Originally Posted by jarod b

Okay. I just finished writing up the initial copy for my thread, but now I need to know if it's okay to post. So I'll send you a PM with my sales copy. Let me know what you think Dan.

I just saw the PM. I haven't read it yet - I can tell you my opinion already - POST IT. I'll explain in a minute.

Originally Posted by jarod b

Also I took a look at him as well as few more guys. They do excellent work. But I noticed most of them are more focused on delivery and customer satisfaction but not so much on customer value. So my opportunity here is an educational process that is about teaming up with my clients and showing them more opportunities beyond a website. I think if I can turn my existing customers into long-term clients, i'll be doing pretty good and won't have to depend so much on new clients.

I LOVE the way you are thinking. However, let's put that on the back-burner right now. All you are looking to do at this moment is get a little momentum. Just a little. Things will become much clearer to you as you go forward.

Right now - only one thing matters - getting people to let you do design work for them, at ANY price - even free. Think of it this way - right now you are in an internship. The goal of the internship is to learn and get practice. Think of this as just another opportunity to get practice. Think of all the other people who are in similar internships who go home at night and waste their time on TV or internet garbage.

If you get an extra 1,000 hours of practice, with many different clients, handling the intake, servicing, and delivery of projects, while others are wasting their nights and weekends - you will KICK THEIR ASSES during a job selection process. Just the fact that you are motivated enough to do the extra work and actually delivered will GUARANTEE you get a great job. If you begin to approach life this way, you are GUARANTEED to have a better life than others. It's true for money, it's true for relationships, it's true for careers. Treat every moment as an opportunity to practice and get better.

I know the money is on your mind right now. I want you to wipe that away for now ( I know it is hard - trust me!). When we focus on money - it can sometimes elude us because it clouds judgement. When we focus on something higher than JUST money - we earn real success.

Focus strictly on providing an excellent experience, getting better at design, and going over the top. There are things that will happen to you during this process that I can't explain here. Too long. Focus on being the absolute BEST YOU CAN BE for every client - you are about to take a quantum leap forward if you make this your goal!

Unfortunately I don't know how to integrate my HTML & CSS websites with WP, but I am really interested in how I can do that efficiently. That Neuman guy you talked about earlier seems to be able to deliver websites in 2 days or less, so I think efficiency is going to be a really big deal with my clients since I don't know if I can deliver in 2 days. I've never worked with a client before, so this is going to be my first time dealing with paperwork, meetings, managing, and completing a project. I am also not sure how I'm going to actually use Paypal to get paid as well, so I have to also figure that out.

You will figure all of that out. Don't decide right now what you need to learn and get better at. Keep your offer simple. You do static HTML/CSS design of simple and clean landing pages/websites.

As you go forward - LET YOUR CUSTOMERS tell you what you should learn next. Don't make any guesses - go in the direction that people are requesting. Follow their needs and you will never go wrong.

Are you talking about CTA buttons and certificate badges by the way? I think those are overrated... Sure you need a CTA to demand attention and a certificate badge to reinforce credibility, but pre-determined buttons and badges aren't everything. In the end, it's all about design strategy and how your website copy and design elements will work together to guide a visitor from home page to the final CTA (requesting a quote, checkout, etc.).

Easy now - it sounds as if you KNOW this to be true. In all honesty, we KNOW nothing and we TEST everything. Keep this simple. If something is working for someone else, it is at least worth a try.

Originally Posted by jarod b

LOL interesting you say that. As I was writing up the initial copy for the thread and started looking at successful WF threads in my field, I started to wonder if HTML + CSS websites would be okay with customers. I am honestly scared people will backfire against my pitch, but I know from experience that having helpful people around has always helped me better myself. So I am nervous, but not so much since I feel confident enough that I will get some direction on this weakness. And I tend to be self-sufficient when it comes to resources, so I am not so much bothered if I won't EVER be able to do it. But still... just a bit nervous. lol *nervously*

AS I said above - keep this simple. Don't worry about the future needs. Some people will need static sites. Once you get good at DELIVERING design - people will pay for the design and have someone else add it to a CMS. You do not need to be all things. Be a designer for now. Static sites are good enough for now!

This is a process. This is about you growing as a provider, designer, and business person.

Yeah I am going to give it to them for free, but as long as we discuss some type of payment before hand off. This way there will be no risk involved and I still get paid. Also... I found out that neuman guy dues this all the freaken time... what a coincidence lol. But this opportunity still gives me a chance no matter how I go about looking at it. I just need someone to bite into it now and give me that shot.

Mistake. Please do not let greed cloud your decisions at this point. You are strictly in learning phase 1. You really have no credibility yet to be honest. I know you don't want to work for free. I know. I get it. You are right.

My advice - do the first 5 completely 100% free. It will get your portfolio a little bit established. You will be learning a lot. Honestly - you will get more out of it than the clients. You are experimenting on them after all - you will gain much more than the small fee you would charge them. AND - this kind of bargaining can create bad feelings.

Give them away - be the hero. This isn't about the money - YET.

I have to be honest. What you said previously about my history is true, and I won't share why, but I am willing to put all my fears on the table if you guys are serious about helping me make this work. I really want to commit to this business, and I'm willing to take all the feedback and criticism there is. My only concern right now is if I'm taking this help of yours too personal and if you guys will leave me out in the cold. I mean I really believe this is the path I want to take, and Dan seems to know my career path really well just by observation. Is this too much to ask for before we get into this? lol *nervously*

Here is the thing - I don't know your career path well. I have never built a design business. But, I have built businesses. I have advised clients how to get from $5million to $10 million annual revenue. I have advised clients on raising venture funding. 50% of them landed funding - the largest was an $18 million funding round. I could go on and on but you get the point.

Here is why I feel confident in helping you publicly - biz is biz. That is it. Your success or failure has nothing to do with your clients or the market or the economy or your location. I could advise people building any type of business. I don't know the technicalities - I know how to make businesses work. I know what is required from the owner. It could be almost anything - the principles are always the same, with very rare exceptions.

Your success or failure is 100% UP TO YOU. Your life up to this point is the sum total of the quality of your thinking. Low-quality thinking yields low-quality results. High quality thinking yields high-quality results.

In every area of your life, you can look around and see how the quality of your thoughts has been. Without question, this is an absolute truth. If you think about it, you will see that it can't be any other way. Of course the quality of our thoughts determines our results. Of course it does. What else is there? My goal is to help change your thinking to a higher level - you can succeed. Of course you can.

This is why I advised before that FEAR is the biggest problem. Greed and fear cloud our thinking.

Imagine all the planning and work you were about to do when you launched this thread. Notice how the quality of your thoughts has been elevated already. See how all the complicated work you were about to do was really a cover-up for your fear of being rejected.

Notice how FAR away from your goal of success you were when you posted this thread. Notice how much closer you are now to actually making real progress.

Notice how as you get closer to accomplishing a real achievement, your fear level is increasing. This is an indicator that you are doing the right thing. The things you fear are your compass. Everything you want in life is on the other side of something you fear.

Put yourself out there. Way out there. Yes, you will be rejected. I have faced some crippling, devastating rejections that knocked me on my ass. But, if you are choosing to be a success in life, you must accept these feelings. No matter what you do in life, REJECTION and FEAR and FAILURE are the KEYS TO YOUR SUCCESS!

Look with PITY on all the people around you who refuse to be uncomfortable. Who will not face simple fears and insecurities. Look at the normal, mediocre lives they lead. Never experiencing the awesome high's and terrible low's of really living. Comfortable with their shitty dead end jobs and lack of motivation.

Unless you want to be one of them - you gotta fight, and believe, and bleed, and grow, and change.

Some may say I am being too dramatic - after all, it's only web design and a little sales thread. This is big stuff man. This is your life. This is how you get started. This is a HUGE deal in your progress. This is very dramatic. For you, everything hinges on your decision to move forward. To change. To start being better than what you have been.

If you won't change, nothing else in your life will change either. If you will change, it will all change for you.

Originally Posted by savidge4

STOP right there... Your prior experience allows you the opportunity to educate a client based on what? you are a designer.. plain and simple. Delivery and Customer satisfaction are THE KEY to your success... the rest will come later, when YOU have the experience to do so.

Over rated? ok... just start with your page layouts for now.. we can discuss the errors in this statement at a later point. Right now your PRIMARY focus is on page layout and page layout only. Be the Best UI/UX guy you can be, and from that you can expand your services.

This is all correct, Jarod.

Originally Posted by jarod b

Well I am going to post my for hire thread right now. Let me know if my message and services are doing okay.

DO IT! You can edit it later! PULL THE TRIGGER AND POST THE LINK HERE!

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iAmNameLess

9 years ago

Originally Posted by jarod b

I have been doing some research on selling websites and internet marketing, but I work a fulltime job and don't have the time to design, develop, and do the SEO. My goal is to consultant to companies in my local area and outsource the local SEO and website build if they are interested in my strategy and want me to handle it for them. Can anyone recommend some credible local SEO providers and website designers and developer?

People really think it's this easy, don't they? This is why so many business owners hate SEO and think it's a scam. People like Jarod get into the space, and outsource SEO, if there aren't any results the customer is pissed, maybe wants a refund and Jarod gets screwed while the people he outsourced to are collecting the money and possibly not even doing any work at all.

Now let me clarify... There's nothing wrong with Jarod wanting to get into the space. There's nothing wrong with outsourcing everything you can, but there are some problems here.

#1 - This is kind of a forum misconception here that a lot of people feel they need to distort what they really are and give themselves a title. Marketing yourself as a consultant is actually more harmful to your business than you marketing yourself as a freelancer. Hiring a marketing consultant, business consultant, SEO consultant, is something that small business owners aren't thinking about, and you set the stage for a battle with the disadvantage being on yourself.

Instead of saying you're a consultant to local businesses, market yourself as a business that specializes in SEO and website design.

Why?

Because a business owner likes to do business with other business owners, much more than they would like to do business with a consultant.

#2 - You need to have some sort of knowledge about what you're outsourcing. This used to be not as much of a requirement but we've progressed enough to know that people are educating themselves before buying, and if you don't have a certain level of product knowledge, you're going to lose out on a lot of potential leads.

To be fair, Jarod never mentioned or said anything to make me think he doesn't have product knowledge, but I felt the need to address this since a lot of people just browsing here get the wrong idea.

#3 - Outsources are not dependable.

This is quite a generalization, I realize that. However, when you're starting a business in THIS industry, you're going to make mistakes. You're going to have the wrong outsourcer or you're going to be at a deadline and counting on a guy in the Philippines to finish up but their internet is knocked out because of a storm. Or the girl from India can't get online because of a power surge where she lives... this happens. I promise you it happens. Sometimes they disappear...

What do you do when that happens? Do you start all over finding someone to replace them?

The answer is you better be able to take the reins and produce the work yourself if you have to. You know how many deadlines that I would have missed if I counted on outsourcers?

I think the more serious problem Jarod will have before he even gets to these other issues is that he will find how difficult it is to build a business part time without the right methods, branding and messaging. Very few people are able to launch a successful business with part time work.

Anyway... overall advice... prepare to complete the work yourself... if you are unable to do that, then you aren't ready to outsource.

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ewenmack 9 years ago

Jarod, you have put the horse before the cart.

You've found a service to sell.

You haven't found a group of people
who want something...first.

A group of people you know a lot about.

Their...
frustrations
secret desires
who they dislike
why they dislike them
the thing they fear most
what they know about your competitors, true or myths
what they buy

Getting answers to those questions will lead you
to what a buyer wants, what to say to get him to buy.

Ever wondered about a buyer like this?

Best,
Doctor E. Vile
- [ 2 ] Thanks
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savidge4

9 years ago

Originally Posted by jarod b

I have been doing some research on selling websites and internet marketing, but I work a fulltime job and don't have the time to design, develop, and do the SEO. My goal is to consultant to companies in my local area and outsource the local SEO and website build if they are interested in my strategy and want me to handle it for them. Can anyone recommend some credible local SEO providers and website designers and developer?

I am going to be honest in saying the context of your post would under normal circumstances draw me to a no comment stance quick. - I want to get into web design and SEO as a moonlight deal, and I want to outsource it all - simply has failure written all over it.

In your post, the only plausible redeeming quality that I can see would be the bold text "if they are interested in my strategy" What exactly is your strategy?

Thanks

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Underground

9 years ago

Just the title jumped out at me as a negative indicator.

I want to get into so and so, but I have a few questions.

If you're going to get into a business properly and seriously, then you'll be in a full-time, ongoing state of curiosity, and a new question will rear it's head to be answered as soon as you answer the last one, and on and on. And you can't just answer them in your head. They need corresponding solutions and actions implemented in real-life. That is, until you get to state of mastery, years down the line, where the subject becomes easy and clear. Then you can think about outsourcing to the extent you are talking about.

Like Iam pointing out. Outsourcing will make you want to weep tears if you go through their mechanisms to evaluate candidates and aren't prepared to pay professionals more than the clueless. And if you don't get a solid recruitment process in place to find only a1 candidates. See Mike Cooch's course or John Reese's. But it still won't be stress free or effortless even when you are recruiting properly.

It's impossible to have only 'a few questions' and get anywhere in B2B marketing. For one, you clients are going to have way more questions that than. Just one of many reasons.

Thanks
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Freebiequeen1999

9 years ago

Sorry to be negative BUT this just seems backwards....

like...you should go out and sell sites/seo and know how to fulfill it and get a good portfolio and then when you are too busy to do it all yourself train a sales rep and use some freelancers for some things

Really the way you present it there are so many red flags - what happens when a potential client has questions the rep can't answer - and they can't call you at your day job?
Like the sales rep will see what is going on and figure hey I can sell these myself and hire freelancers LOL

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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Freebiequeen1999

Sorry to be negative BUT this just seems backwards....

like...you should go out and sell sites/seo and know how to fulfill it and get a good portfolio and then when you are too busy to do it all yourself train a sales rep and use some freelancers for some things

Really the way you present it there are so many red flags - what happens when a potential client has questions the rep can't answer - and they can't call you at your day job?
Like the sales rep will see what is going on and figure hey I can sell these myself and hire freelancers LOL

I'm not worried about people who feel like they can do it for themselves. My audience is mostly for people who don't have the time to focus on marketing and want to focus on their sales more than marketing.

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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

I think you are making the mistake of not taking SEO and websites seriously. Many people think because it has a low barrier to entry, that they can just be a gun-slinger and jump into the ring.

Would you consider selling architecture services with your plan?

10 years ago - the barrier to entry was very low. So your plan might have worked. Now, this is a serious business, with serious expertise, and serious work required.

So - I'm asking a few questions. If you answer them, I promise I will work with you, right here on this thread, to help you find a path to making more money.

1) What expertise do you have? What do you KNOW how to do?

2) How do you know how to do it?

3) What is your full-time job?

4) How much time do you have every week?

5) How much extra money do you need?

The right path may not be websites or even internet related at all. It is admirable that you want more, so if you will take it, I will try to help you find the way.

You are on the right path - step #1 is ALWAYS increase your income. A side business CAN be a great way to do it, but not always.

I've wanted to publicly coach someone for a long-time. I'm willing for that to be you, if you are willing to do what I say.

First, I am really happy that everyone here is interested in my background behind all of this, it makes me excited. Thanks for posting guys

.

I've been into the internet space since mid 2008, and since then I've learned about web design, web development, and affiliate marketing. I have experienced using gimp, photoshop, illustrator, indesign, dreamweaver, notepad (lol yes i am a notepad based coder, no shame :p). So I do know enough about basic design principles and XHTML, CSS, Javascript, and PHP. I know about the difference components behind internet marketing too, although I lack actual experience in other areas except organic SEO. I've never done Paid Search Marketing, Social Media Marketing, Email Marketing, Content Marketing, or any of the other marketing pieces. Only have I dealt with organic SEO to rank a review website.

As for right now, I have a web design portfolio online, I am currently going through a fulltime graphic design intern, but I also want to help businesses grow through my design and marketing skills. It's something I've always wanted to know how to do, but never knew how to go about, which is why I chose to be a consultant since I can be close to both marketing and design while still having some type of involvement on both sides.

You asked me about my fulltime job. I don't have one. I'm taking on a fulltime graphic design intern right now. As for my financial goal in all of this, I would be happy to pocket just 8K a year, but honestly I want to make at least a $30K+ salary to pay off my student loans. And I've concluded that I can dedicate at least 10 hours a week on average. Only problem I can see right now is that I get off at 5pm, and that's like night time around this time of the year so I don't how I'm going to get into meetings with business owners. But that's why I'm considering to do just email-based communicate or meeting during the weekend.

Oh yeah. I forgot to mention that I am not just diving into this business for the money. I've put thought into this since 2-3 years ago, and I also just finished taking notes on an internet marketing sales course and a web design sales course. So I am not a wondering business person or anything like that lol. I've looked into a ton of options already... the hosting business, affiliate marketing, website template business, etc. I've looked at so much. I am pretty confident about what I'm getting myself into and I do have concerns just like you all. So I know how you all feel. This business I'm getting into has always been something I wanted to do. I just never decided the direction I wanted to take this, and now I have

.

Originally Posted by topqualitymarketing

Contact me if you still need this i dont want to advertise here

I contacted you. Give me a reply.

Originally Posted by iAmNameLess

People really think it's this easy, don't they? This is why so many business owners hate SEO and think it's a scam. People like Jarod get into the space, and outsource SEO, if there aren't any results the customer is pissed, maybe wants a refund and Jarod gets screwed while the people he outsourced to are collecting the money and possibly not even doing any work at all.

Now let me clarify... There's nothing wrong with Jarod wanting to get into the space. There's nothing wrong with outsourcing everything you can, but there are some problems here.

#1 - This is kind of a forum misconception here that a lot of people feel they need to distort what they really are and give themselves a title. Marketing yourself as a consultant is actually more harmful to your business than you marketing yourself as a freelancer. Hiring a marketing consultant, business consultant, SEO consultant, is something that small business owners aren't thinking about, and you set the stage for a battle with the disadvantage being on yourself.

Instead of saying you're a consultant to local businesses, market yourself as a business that specializes in SEO and website design.

Why?

Because a business owner likes to do business with other business owners, much more than they would like to do business with a consultant.

#2 - You need to have some sort of knowledge about what you're outsourcing. This used to be not as much of a requirement but we've progressed enough to know that people are educating themselves before buying, and if you don't have a certain level of product knowledge, you're going to lose out on a lot of potential leads.

To be fair, Jarod never mentioned or said anything to make me think he doesn't have product knowledge, but I felt the need to address this since a lot of people just browsing here get the wrong idea.

#3 - Outsources are not dependable.

This is quite a generalization, I realize that. However, when you're starting a business in THIS industry, you're going to make mistakes. You're going to have the wrong outsourcer or you're going to be at a deadline and counting on a guy in the Philippines to finish up but their internet is knocked out because of a storm. Or the girl from India can't get online because of a power surge where she lives... this happens. I promise you it happens. Sometimes they disappear...

What do you do when that happens? Do you start all over finding someone to replace them?

The answer is you better be able to take the reins and produce the work yourself if you have to. You know how many deadlines that I would have missed if I counted on outsourcers?

I think the more serious problem Jarod will have before he even gets to these other issues is that he will find how difficult it is to build a business part time without the right methods, branding and messaging. Very few people are able to launch a successful business with part time work.

Anyway... overall advice... prepare to complete the work yourself... if you are unable to do that, then you aren't ready to outsource.

Well it seems like I am associated with the shiny-object syndrome people, and maybe I should have addressed my background behind this.

Personally, I don't think it's going to be easy outsourcing work because I've learned that not every person you work with deals with things the same way. And you have a point about what would happen if one of them vanishes, and I honestly don't have an answer for that... But I am willing to live again and learn from my mistakes. At this time of my life, it doesn't matter if I fail anymore. Just as long as I can do better the next time. I think even you can remember that business progress doesn't just spiral upward. Sometimes it will spike up and down as well, and I'm no exception. But I'm willing to learn from it and fill in whatever extra commitment is required.

With that said, I can't tell you if I have enough knowledge about what I'm outsourcing, but I want to learn it just as much as I want to make money. I realize that putting together an online marketing strategy for offline businesses is tough work, and that I can't simply master SEO and web design. That's why I'm starting somewhere... with local SEO. And then I plan to move onto Paid Search Marketing, Organic/competitive SEO, Social Media, Content Marketing, etc. I just want to learn what I can for now and learn as I go. My learning experiences have taught me that I learn best while on the job, and that's what I'm going to do. Trust me. I've never been a genius about anything I know, but I wouldn't mind being one lol.

Originally Posted by savidge4

I am going to be honest in saying the context of your post would under normal circumstances draw me to a no comment stance quick. - I want to get into web design and SEO as a moonlight deal, and I want to outsource it all - simply has failure written all over it.

In your post, the only plausible redeeming quality that I can see would be the bold text "if they are interested in my strategy" What exactly is your strategy?

I think a strategy is only applicable to a specific situation and not any... unless they just wanted a brochure website to get started on the internet immediately, which I assume would be the norm with any client who is misinformed.

As for the moonlighting deal, it does seem like that would be the idea LOL. But that's not my intention at all. I can tell you now that my position in all of this isn't all that flexible time-wise, but I am constantly trying to figure out how I'm going to communicate with clients and resources. But that's why I have to try it out anyways. I've learned from my past that what I think I can do right now is often different from what I'll actually be dealing with, so I'm going to eventually see what is possible at some point in all of this.

Originally Posted by ewenmack

Jarod, you have put the horse before the cart.

You've found a service to sell.

You haven't found a group of people
who want something...first.

A group of people you know a lot about.

Their...
frustrations
secret desires
who they dislike
why they dislike them
the thing they fear most
what they know about your competitors, true or myths
what they buy

Getting answers to those questions will lead you
to what a buyer wants, what to say to get him to buy.

Ever wondered about a buyer like this?

Best,
Doctor E. Vile

Are you saying that I should know who my target market is? I would share that but I don't feel comfortable about it in public. Maybe we can talk about this in the inbox or over skype? I am interested in what you think about my target market since you seem to know something I'm unaware of. I'm getting the feeling that it might be helpful to hear your input about this.

Originally Posted by Underground

Just the title jumped out at me as a negative indicator.

I want to get into so and so, but I have a few questions.

If you're going to get into a business properly and seriously, then you'll be in a full-time, ongoing state of curiosity, and a new question will rear it's head to be answered as soon as you answer the last one, and on and on. And you can't just answer them in your head. They need corresponding solutions and actions implemented in real-life. That is, until you get to state of mastery, years down the line, where the subject becomes easy and clear. Then you can think about outsourcing to the extent you are talking about.

Like Iam pointing out. Outsourcing will make you want to weep tears if you go through their mechanisms to evaluate candidates and aren't prepared to pay professionals more than the clueless. And if you don't get a solid recruitment process in place to find only a1 candidates. See Mike Cooch's course or John Reese's. But it still won't be stress free or effortless even when you are recruiting properly.

It's impossible to have only 'a few questions' and get anywhere in B2B marketing. For one, you clients are going to have way more questions that than. Just one of many reasons.

I get that you are saying that I need to put a recruitment process in place. But are you suggesting that I have at least a few years of experience before I start outsourcing? And I don't think I will have a few questions. I can tell you now that I'll be a piece of shit in my business to start with lol, but I don't mind. I just want to be a part of something I've been wanting to do for so long now. This is something I really want to commit to.

Thanks

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Underground

9 years ago

Originally Posted by jarod

I get that you are saying that I need to put a recruitment process in place. But are you suggesting that I have at least a few years of experience before I start outsourcing? And I don't think I will have a few questions. I can tell you now that I'll be a piece of shit in my business to start with lol, but I don't mind. I just want to be a part of something I've been wanting to do for so long now. This is something I really want to commit to.

You absolute have to have recruitment process in place. I can't stress that enough, that recruiting the right people who are trained and managed right is one of the most important factors in any business. A great team.

I've hired a good 50 people over the years relying just on the silly, misleading hiring mechanisms of freelancing sites for convenience, and each time, because a lot of these were working on one off tasks in my own business, I went through freelance sites like Odesk.

It is absolutely shocking how most people operate. You are very lucky if you find someone functional and sane, even if they have 5 stars and great ratings. I mean you just would not believe how flaky and unprofessional people can be or the tricks people will pull on you, my god.

But I'm currently getting ready to build a a real team myself in a professional sense, and am currently going through John Reese's Oursource Force. It's got a really good and comprehensive process for hiring, and I'll be utilizing that. Still no guarantee things will go smoothly, but it's must when you're looking to get serious. Hit my up with a PM, and I can throw something your way that will give you all the info you need to implement a proper recruitment process that properly vets, tests, evaluates and manages candidates.

What I meant was you need to know your stuff if you want to outsource. You need to have all the documents and training in place to pass onto an outsource. You've already done the studying side and know what services you want to offer and could train outsourcers up. I didn't think you were at that stage and had sifted down to a last few preliminary questions.

I got something just up your street.

Also, if you wanted to, there is a firm called local oxygen. They offer great fulfilment and you could outsource to them and take care of getting customers.

Thanks
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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Underground

You absolute have to have recruitment process in place. I can't stress that enough, that recruiting the right people who are trained and managed right is one of the most important factors in any business. A great team.

I've hired a good 50 people over the years relying just on the silly, misleading hiring mechanisms of freelancing sites for convenience, and each time, because a lot of these were working on one off tasks in my own business, I went through freelance sites like Odesk.

It is absolutely shocking how most people operate. You are very lucky if you find someone functional and sane, even if they have 5 stars and great ratings. I mean you just would not believe how flaky and unprofessional people can be or the tricks people will pull on you, my god.

But I'm currently getting ready to build a a real team myself in a professional sense, and am currently going through John Reese's Oursource Force. It's got a really good and comprehensive process for hiring, and I'll be utilizing that. Still no guarantee things will go smoothly, but it's must when you're looking to get serious. Hit my up with a PM, and I can throw something your way that will give you all the info you need to implement a proper recruitment process that properly vets, tests, evaluates and manages candidates.

What I meant was you need to know your stuff if you want to outsource. You need to have all the documents and training in place to pass onto an outsource. You've already done the studying side and know what services you want to offer and could train outsourcers up. I didn't think you were at that stage and had sifted down to a last few preliminary questions.

I got something just up your street.

Also, if you wanted to, there is a firm called local oxygen. They offer great fulfilment and you could outsource to them and take care of getting customers.

Okay. I sent you a PM, and I did a bit of research on local oxygen. They seem legit so far and are right down my alley. Only thing now is it seems too good to be true lol.

Thanks
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DaniMc

9 years ago

Originally Posted by jarod b

I've been into the internet space since mid 2008, and since then I've learned about web design, web development, and affiliate marketing. I have experienced using gimp, photoshop, illustrator, indesign, dreamweaver, notepad (lol yes i am a notepad based coder, no shame :p). So I do know enough about basic design principles and XHTML, CSS, Javascript, and PHP. I know about the difference components behind internet marketing too, although I lack actual experience in other areas except organic SEO. I've never done Paid Search Marketing, Social Media Marketing, Email Marketing, Content Marketing, or any of the other marketing pieces. Only have I dealt with organic SEO to rank a review website.

I would like to make a distinction in the above paragraph. There is a HUGE difference between knowing how to do something, and knowing about something.

Things you know how to do:
UI/UX Design

Things you know about:
Various kinds of marketing

There is no reason you should be lumping these things together. No reason at all. These are large industries on their own, each with their own skills. Learning how to get started selling your own services is difficult enough - there is no need you should add to your learning curve by throwing marketing into the mix.

The most important thing you need to know about this is that you cannot simply go out and experiment with people's businesses. Maybe if you know them or they are a family member they would give you a little money to play around with - but I doubt it. This is like experimenting with someone's baby. People do not like it and you can do real damage.

So - my advice is you stick to what you actually know how to do and save the rest for later. You can make a good living just with UI/UX design.

As for right now, I have a web design portfolio online, I am currently going through a fulltime graphic design intern, but I also want to help businesses grow through my design and marketing skills. It's something I've always wanted to know how to do, but never knew how to go about, which is why I chose to be a consultant since I can be close to both marketing and design while still having some type of involvement on both sides.

Please stop thinking of design and marketing as one thing. They are totally different disciplines.

OK, so you do indeed have some design skills. You obviously are not ready to make a lot of money developing custom themes on Themeforest or anything, but you have some skills that are useful and valuable.

This is the most important part - this is what you know how to do - because you have done it. It is worth money, and people will pay you for it.

There is no reason you should add any other needed skills into the mix at this point. Don't fall into the trap of being afraid to focus. This is actually about your own fears more than anything else. You want to add these other things in, but what you really need to do is take them out.

Zero in. One thing. Get better at it. Do it more often. Don't dilute your efforts.

You can make great extra money with your design skills.

Go into the Warriors For Hire section - find the most successful posts - emulate them with your own.

Place a link to that thread in your signature line with a strong headline. Start out with prices so low that people have no choice but to hire you. Take on one project at a time and over-deliver in a big way. After you have a few projects done, you can raise your prices a little to get you to a decent hourly rate.

Go to all the freelance sites and do the exact same process - start super cheap and build your ratings and portfolio. Keep it simple. Don't worry about outsourcing - do what you know.

After a few months of this, you will easily have enough work to fill your time - only then should you think about the next steps.

Forget about trying to sell established small businesses. Who needs design work? New businesses! Particularly startups. These guys are different from the local businesses people are starting.

I used to mentor startups at an incubator. These guys need simple designs that look good and don't cost too much. They don't need bells and whistles. They don't have much money but they absolutely need design work and they find the money.

I would begin looking city by city for business incubators, finding the list of companies, and contacting them. If you find a marketing company at an incubator, you hit the jackpot! They will need someone like you to build for their clients.

I know you might be tempted to just directly do what I just suggested but DON'T. Trust me - it is a stage two move. You need to do the stage one stuff I suggested first or you will struggle greatly.

You asked me about my fulltime job. I don't have one. I'm taking on a fulltime graphic design intern right now. As for my financial goal in all of this, I would be happy to pocket just 8K a year, but honestly I want to make at least a $30K+ salary to pay off my student loans. And I've concluded that I can dedicate at least 10 hours a week on average. Only problem I can see right now is that I get off at 5pm, and that's like night time around this time of the year so I don't how I'm going to get into meetings with business owners. But that's why I'm considering to do just email-based communicate or meeting during the weekend.

Again - forget about the local businesses right now. It simply will not work for you at this time in your career.

10 hours a week is enough to do some work - but you need more. When I was first moving to get started - I woke up every morning at 430 am. I needed to be on my way to work by 7am - so this gave me a few hours to work in the morning.

When I came home from work, I worked two additional hours. On Saturday I still woke up at 430am and worked until noon. That's 27 hours per week.

You can do more. I have a family to interact with so I did that every night. I only worked until noon saturday because I have to maintain those relationships. You don't have that right now - take advantage.

You want to do this? You gotta work. 10 hours per week is not enough unless you truly have no other options. But - you have options. Almost no one is disciplined enough with time. You must be!

There is absolutely no reason you can't make more than $30k with design. No reason at all.

Oh yeah. I forgot to mention that I am not just diving into this business for the money. I've put thought into this since 2-3 years ago, and I also just finished taking notes on an internet marketing sales course and a web design sales course. So I am not a wondering business person or anything like that lol. I've looked into a ton of options already... the hosting business, affiliate marketing, website template business, etc. I've looked at so much. I am pretty confident about what I'm getting myself into and I do have concerns just like you all. So I know how you all feel. This business I'm getting into has always been something I wanted to do. I just never decided the direction I wanted to take this, and now I have

.

Yes - you are a wandering business person. You are lumping together HUGE disciplines, thinking you can sell them, when you really don't know anything about them! Trust me - you are NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME.

Stop taking courses. Stop getting ready. DO the things I said above and get started selling design services. DO IT.

Looking back over your posts for the last several years tells a very clear story. You want to do it, but you never actually do. You are making this too complicated.

Keep it simple. Focus on one thing. In everything you do, you must become a master of focus. When people work for me, it may appear that I am doing a lot of different things. The reality is, I am totally 100% focused on one thing at a time.

And you have a point about what would happen if one of them vanishes, and I honestly don't have an answer for that... But I am willing to live again and learn from my mistakes. At this time of my life, it doesn't matter if I fail anymore. Just as long as I can do better the next time. I think even you can remember that business progress doesn't just spiral upward.

Business can spiral downward as well. Don't make it complicated. This is easy. Focus on one service, sell it as simply as possible, and get better every day.

With that said, I can't tell you if I have enough knowledge about what I'm outsourcing, but I want to learn it just as much as I want to make money. I realize that putting together an online marketing strategy for offline businesses is tough work, and that I can't simply master SEO and web design. That's why I'm starting somewhere... with local SEO. And then I plan to move onto Paid Search Marketing, Organic/competitive SEO, Social Media, Content Marketing, etc. I just want to learn what I can for now and learn as I go. My learning experiences have taught me that I learn best while on the job, and that's what I'm going to do. Trust me. I've never been a genius about anything I know, but I wouldn't mind being one lol.

This is much more difficult than you think. This is most people's weakness - we almost always underestimate how much effort will be required to do something. The business model you are talking about is huge, and requires real expertise. Can it. FOCUS.

I get that you are saying that I need to put a recruitment process in place. But are you suggesting that I have at least a few years of experience before I start outsourcing? And I don't think I will have a few questions. I can tell you now that I'll be a piece of shit in my business to start with lol, but I don't mind. I just want to be a part of something I've been wanting to do for so long now. This is something I really want to commit to.

You can get there eventually - you must walk before you can run. FOCUS.

Originally Posted by jarod b

Whoops I missed yours somehow lol. But I have experience doing website production and marketing, but not any experience outsourcing. Do you know where I can start to begin outsourcing? I am looking for people in these areas:

Web Design & Development
— Website Designer
— WP Developer
— WP Advanced Functionality Plugin Developer

Content Development
— Copywriter
— Photographer
— Videographer
— Copy Editer
— Illustration Designer
— Graphic Designer

Internet Marketing
— Search Engine Optimization
— Pay Per Click Marketing
— Email Marketing
— Social Media

Trust me - this is a lot more difficult than you think. I walked the exact path you are trying. I failed and failed and failed until I learned to focus and add one thing at a time. I wish someone would have told me what I am telling you. Maybe I wouldn't have listened.

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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

I would like to make a distinction in the above paragraph. There is a HUGE difference between knowing how to do something, and knowing about something.

Things you know how to do:
UI/UX Design

Things you know about:
Various kinds of marketing

There is no reason you should be lumping these things together. No reason at all. These are large industries on their own, each with their own skills. Learning how to get started selling your own services is difficult enough - there is no need you should add to your learning curve by throwing marketing into the mix.

The most important thing you need to know about this is that you cannot simply go out and experiment with people's businesses. Maybe if you know them or they are a family member they would give you a little money to play around with - but I doubt it. This is like experimenting with someone's baby. People do not like it and you can do real damage.

So - my advice is you stick to what you actually know how to do and save the rest for later. You can make a good living just with UI/UX design.

Please stop thinking of design and marketing as one thing. They are totally different disciplines.

OK, so you do indeed have some design skills. You obviously are not ready to make a lot of money developing custom themes on Themeforest or anything, but you have some skills that are useful and valuable.

This is the most important part - this is what you know how to do - because you have done it. It is worth money, and people will pay you for it.

There is no reason you should add any other needed skills into the mix at this point. Don't fall into the trap of being afraid to focus. This is actually about your own fears more than anything else. You want to add these other things in, but what you really need to do is take them out.

Zero in. One thing. Get better at it. Do it more often. Don't dilute your efforts.

You can make great extra money with your design skills.

Go into the Warriors For Hire section - find the most successful posts - emulate them with your own.

Place a link to that thread in your signature line with a strong headline. Start out with prices so low that people have no choice but to hire you. Take on one project at a time and over-deliver in a big way. After you have a few projects done, you can raise your prices a little to get you to a decent hourly rate.

Go to all the freelance sites and do the exact same process - start super cheap and build your ratings and portfolio. Keep it simple. Don't worry about outsourcing - do what you know.

After a few months of this, you will easily have enough work to fill your time - only then should you think about the next steps.

Forget about trying to sell established small businesses. Who needs design work? New businesses! Particularly startups. These guys are different from the local businesses people are starting.

I used to mentor startups at an incubator. These guys need simple designs that look good and don't cost too much. They don't need bells and whistles. They don't have much money but they absolutely need design work and they find the money.

I would begin looking city by city for business incubators, finding the list of companies, and contacting them. If you find a marketing company at an incubator, you hit the jackpot! They will need someone like you to build for their clients.

I know you might be tempted to just directly do what I just suggested but DON'T. Trust me - it is a stage two move. You need to do the stage one stuff I suggested first or you will struggle greatly.

Again - forget about the local businesses right now. It simply will not work for you at this time in your career.

10 hours a week is enough to do some work - but you need more. When I was first moving to get started - I woke up every morning at 430 am. I needed to be on my way to work by 7am - so this gave me a few hours to work in the morning.

When I came home from work, I worked two additional hours. On Saturday I still woke up at 430am and worked until noon. That's 27 hours per week.

You can do more. I have a family to interact with so I did that every night. I only worked until noon saturday because I have to maintain those relationships. You don't have that right now - take advantage.

You want to do this? You gotta work. 10 hours per week is not enough unless you truly have no other options. But - you have options. Almost no one is disciplined enough with time. You must be!

There is absolutely no reason you can't make more than $30k with design. No reason at all.

Yes - you are a wandering business person. You are lumping together HUGE disciplines, thinking you can sell them, when you really don't know anything about them! Trust me - you are NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME.

Stop taking courses. Stop getting ready. DO the things I said above and get started selling design services. DO IT.

Looking back over your posts for the last several years tells a very clear story. You want to do it, but you never actually do. You are making this too complicated.

Keep it simple. Focus on one thing. In everything you do, you must become a master of focus. When people work for me, it may appear that I am doing a lot of different things. The reality is, I am totally 100% focused on one thing at a time.

Business can spiral downward as well. Don't make it complicated. This is easy. Focus on one service, sell it as simply as possible, and get better every day.

This is much more difficult than you think. This is most people's weakness - we almost always underestimate how much effort will be required to do something. The business model you are talking about is huge, and requires real expertise. Can it. FOCUS.

You can get there eventually - you must walk before you can run. FOCUS.

Trust me - this is a lot more difficult than you think. I walked the exact path you are trying. I failed and failed and failed until I learned to focus and add one thing at a time. I wish someone would have told me what I am telling you. Maybe I wouldn't have listened.

Are you serious about giving this information away!? Lmao this is a solid blueprint man! I am gonna discard everything I did and do exactly as you suggest! The most amazing thing about this is, I kind of knew to start small and start with 1 thing at a time, but I didn't know how I was gonna transition from 1 service to a full-scale service. I am printing this out right now, and we need to link up on Skype man. Now I have to meet you cuz I really feel like this is how I want to do it and you're the right business adviser for me. I am genuinely surprised you're giving this million-dollar info away man. And I can say thank you but my appreciate for this single post will never be enough!

Please, please add me on Skype. It's jarod.billingslea (black guy with brown shirt)

.

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Underground

9 years ago

Originally Posted by jarod b

Are you serious about giving this information away!? Lmao this is a solid blueprint man! I am gonna discard everything I did and do exactly as you suggest! The most amazing thing about this is, I kind of knew to start small and start with 1 thing at a time, but I didn't know how I was gonna transition from 1 service to a full-scale service. I am printing this out right now, and we need to link up on Skype man. Now I have to meet you cuz I really feel like this is how I want to do it and you're the right business adviser for me. I am genuinely surprised you're giving this million-dollar info away man. And I can say thank you but my appreciate for this single post will never be enough!

Please, please add me on Skype. It's jarod.billingslea (black guy with brown shirt)

.

Smart, smart man. I was just reading his post and the suggestion of targeting incubators to find new business is one of the best, most evergreen tips I've seen on here. Absolutely premium of source of clients the way he has suggested you approach it.

And normally, I would see someone clean ignore advice like that because very few people are humble enough or appreciative enough when someone gives them great, hard-won advice, and was going to comment on the need to focus to his reinforce his point by no need.

I couldn't get my first client the results I wanted, excellent results, and so I just stopped trying to help other businesses altogether until I did have those skills to a high level. And it's taken a long time, like anything worthwhile. Dues have to be paid, and the ropes have to be learned.

It's so cool to see you recognize the great value Dan shared with you straight-away and to heed it. Good move.

All the best.

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DaniMc

9 years ago

Alright Jarod - let's do it here on the thread!

By the end of today you should be finished (or at least almost finished) with setting up your thread in Warriors for Hire. Just search that forum for "Designer" and find some people who are making sales. Emulate them.

Remember though, don't try to be the "Design Master" yet and get caught up in the preparation stage. Take the design examples that you have on your portfolio, and post them as examples.

Pick a very low price to start with, and offer simple design services for people who just need simple, clean pages. Explain your situation, don't try to sound like a big-shot yet, just be honest.

"I'm an intern. Here is the work I can do. I'm just getting started, I am hungry to help you. I guarantee you will be satisfied with this price and the design you get. I am dedicated to making you happy."

Well, don't say that exact thing - you gotta SELL after all, but you will start getting some work. Hell, maybe even do the first 5 clients totally 100% FREE.

Just remember the Golden Rules of being in business - Always, always, always do more than you are paid for and, always give people more than they expect to get. More communication. Better work. Better followup. Always surprise people.

One way I do this is to always assume my service sucks - no matter how good people say it is. I always assume it sucks and needs to be better. Before long, my friend, you will have built something you can be proud of.

OK - get that post started and come back here and share it with us! There are many here who will be happy to make suggestions and keep you going. I'd love nothing more than for you to reach your goals.

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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

Alright Jarod - let's do it here on the thread!

By the end of today you should be finished (or at least almost finished) with setting up your thread in Warriors for Hire. Just search that forum for "Designer" and find some people who are making sales. Emulate them.

Remember though, don't try to be the "Design Master" yet and get caught up in the preparation stage. Take the design examples that you have on your portfolio, and post them as examples.

Pick a very low price to start with, and offer simple design services for people who just need simple, clean pages. Explain your situation, don't try to sound like a big-shot yet, just be honest.

"I'm an intern. Here is the work I can do. I'm just getting started, I am hungry to help you. I guarantee you will be satisfied with this price and the design you get. I am dedicated to making you happy."

Well, don't say that exact thing - you gotta SELL after all, but you will start getting some work. Hell, maybe even do the first 5 clients totally 100% FREE.

Just remember the Golden Rules of being in business - Always, always, always do more than you are paid for and, always give people more than they expect to get. More communication. Better work. Better followup. Always surprise people.

One way I do this is to always assume my service sucks - no matter how good people say it is. I always assume it sucks and needs to be better. Before long, my friend, you will have built something you can be proud of.

OK - get that post started and come back here and share it with us! There are many here who will be happy to make suggestions and keep you going. I'd love nothing more than for you to reach your goals.

Okay. I just finished writing up the initial copy for my thread, but now I need to know if it's okay to post. So I'll send you a PM with my sales copy. Let me know what you think Dan.

Thanks

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jarod b

9 years ago

By the way dan, and while this is fresh on my mind, do you think I can work up to doing UX/UI contract work for agencies later on in my career?

EDIT:
Wow pretty fast response. I didn't even know you responded until now lol.

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DaniMc 9 years ago

Originally Posted by jarod b

By the way dan, and while this is fresh on my mind, do you think I can work up to doing UX/UI contract work for agencies later on in my career?

Yeah absolutely. The truth is, you have no limits!

Once you get a solid portfolio, your skills are proven, and you know how to sell the service, you can absolutely run your own agency like many on this forum.

Or, you can get a great job at a large agency.

Or, you can get a great job in a company that needs your expertise.

Or, you can do contract work for other agencies.

There are successful people right here on WF who need to outsource work to someone reliable. Why not you?

You can pick any road you want.
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Underground

9 years ago

With a mentor I agree ready, fire, aim is the best way to go.

Starting out without one though is just going to down the hard, long route, and you'll probably go out and drop load of money and time and wasted effort on many dead ends in the process that add nothing to your skillset.

With a mentorship, internship or apprenticeship of some kind you can get that practical, real-world that ready, fire aim gives you but in a much more focused, productive, less wasteful way.

It's taken 3 or 4 years of serious study and application to where I know I can build and grow my 9 various and complex websites into highly trafficked sites, with best seo practices, best social media methods, pr etc, and the other methods, as I've done those things separately in a scatter gun fashion in the past but with the wrong direction, and could do the same for any business confidently. I could take on a bright person from scratch and train them up within a month so they knew what it took me that long to learn.

That's why Jarod is so fortunate to have that opportunity. I'd happily trade those 3-4 years for 1 or 2 months intense practical, hands-on learning, where I could just go an take action knowing I was heading in the right direction.

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socialentry

Banned 9 years ago

People seem to have a fairly bad opinion of outsourcers in third world countries.

Generally speaking,does it also apply to Western outsourcing firms?

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savidge4 9 years ago

Originally Posted by socialentry

People seem to have a fairly bad opinion of outsourcers in third world countries.

Generally speaking,does it also apply to Western outsourcing firms?

In my humble un biased opinion... yes
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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

I LOVE the way you are thinking. However, let's put that on the back-burner right now. All you are looking to do at this moment is get a little momentum. Just a little. Things will become much clearer to you as you go forward.

Right now - only one thing matters - getting people to let you do design work for them, at ANY price - even free. Think of it this way - right now you are in an internship. The goal of the internship is to learn and get practice. Think of this as just another opportunity to get practice. Think of all the other people who are in similar internships who go home at night and waste their time on TV or internet garbage.

If you get an extra 1,000 hours of practice, with many different clients, handling the intake, servicing, and delivery of projects, while others are wasting their nights and weekends - you will KICK THEIR ASSES during a job selection process. Just the fact that you are motivated enough to do the extra work and actually delivered will GUARANTEE you get a great job. If you begin to approach life this way, you are GUARANTEED to have a better life than others. It's true for money, it's true for relationships, it's true for careers. Treat every moment as an opportunity to practice and get better.

I know the money is on your mind right now. I want you to wipe that away for now ( I know it is hard - trust me!). When we focus on money - it can sometimes elude us because it clouds judgement. When we focus on something higher than JUST money - we earn real success.

Focus strictly on providing an excellent experience, getting better at design, and going over the top. There are things that will happen to you during this process that I can't explain here. Too long. Focus on being the absolute BEST YOU CAN BE for every client - you are about to take a quantum leap forward if you make this your goal!

Well I focused on web design, but I also tried to be different from the other guys and offered web design, website maintenance... plus free website & marketing consulting, free front-end development, website copywriting walkthrough assistance, and a hosting option. But based on what your saying, it seems like I might have to focus on web design only and front-end development (cut out the other services)?

*** Just to be clear here, I was going to offer website copywriting walkthrough assistance, website & marketing consulting, a hosting option (hostgator), and website maintenance. But I'll cut those out and focus on website design and front-end development instead.

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

You will figure all of that out. Don't decide right now what you need to learn and get better at. Keep your offer simple. You do static HTML/CSS design of simple and clean landing pages/websites.

As you go forward - LET YOUR CUSTOMERS tell you what you should learn next. Don't make any guesses - go in the direction that people are requesting. Follow their needs and you will never go wrong.

... AS I said above - keep this simple. Don't worry about the future needs. Some people will need static sites. Once you get good at DELIVERING design - people will pay for the design and have someone else add it to a CMS. You do not need to be all things. Be a designer for now. Static sites are good enough for now!

This is a process. This is about you growing as a provider, designer, and business person.

Okay then, I will focus strictly on providing an excellent experience and getting better at my craft. *Doing the happy dance* lol

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

Mistake. Please do not let greed cloud your decisions at this point. You are strictly in learning phase 1. You really have no credibility yet to be honest. I know you don't want to work for free. I know. I get it. You are right.

My advice - do the first 5 completely 100% free. It will get your portfolio a little bit established. You will be learning a lot. Honestly - you will get more out of it than the clients. You are experimenting on them after all - you will gain much more than the small fee you would charge them. AND - this kind of bargaining can create bad feelings.

Give them away - be the hero. This isn't about the money - YET.

Okay sure. I will update my special offer right now and say I'm doing it for free. But speaking of free and delivering excellent experience, do you think I should offer 5 clients work for free just to build up my portfolio or until I get 5 clients that are satisfied? This might sound like perfectionism, and I tend to have those tendencies lol... but I want to get it off my mind while I can. I really don't want to make this complicated to a point I'm accidentally overwhelmed.

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

Here is the thing - I don't know your career path well. I have never built a design business. But, I have built businesses. I have advised clients how to get from $5million to $10 million annual revenue. I have advised clients on raising venture funding. 50% of them landed funding - the largest was an $18 million funding round. I could go on and on but you get the point.

Here is why I feel confident in helping you publicly - biz is biz. That is it. Your success or failure has nothing to do with your clients or the market or the economy or your location. I could advise people building any type of business. I don't know the technicalities - I know how to make businesses work. I know what is required from the owner. It could be almost anything - the principles are always the same, with very rare exceptions.

Your success or failure is 100% UP TO YOU. Your life up to this point is the sum total of the quality of your thinking. Low-quality thinking yields low-quality results. High quality thinking yields high-quality results.

In every area of your life, you can look around and see how the quality of your thoughts has been. Without question, this is an absolute truth. If you think about it, you will see that it can't be any other way. Of course the quality of our thoughts determines our results. Of course it does. What else is there? My goal is to help change your thinking to a higher level - you can succeed. Of course you can.

This is why I advised before that FEAR is the biggest problem. Greed and fear cloud our thinking.

Imagine all the planning and work you were about to do when you launched this thread. Notice how the quality of your thoughts has been elevated already. See how all the complicated work you were about to do was really a cover-up for your fear of being rejected.

Notice how FAR away from your goal of success you were when you posted this thread. Notice how much closer you are now to actually making real progress.

Notice how as you get closer to accomplishing a real achievement, your fear level is increasing. This is an indicator that you are doing the right thing. The things you fear are your compass. Everything you want in life is on the other side of something you fear.

Put yourself out there. Way out there. Yes, you will be rejected. I have faced some crippling, devastating rejections that knocked me on my ass. But, if you are choosing to be a success in life, you must accept these feelings. No matter what you do in life, REJECTION and FEAR and FAILURE are the KEYS TO YOUR SUCCESS!

Look with PITY on all the people around you who refuse to be uncomfortable. Who will not face simple fears and insecurities. Look at the normal, mediocre lives they lead. Never experiencing the awesome high's and terrible low's of really living. Comfortable with their shitty dead end jobs and lack of motivation.

Unless you want to be one of them - you gotta fight, and believe, and bleed, and grow, and change.

Some may say I am being too dramatic - after all, it's only web design and a little sales thread. This is big stuff man. This is your life. This is how you get started. This is a HUGE deal in your progress. This is very dramatic. For you, everything hinges on your decision to move forward. To change. To start being better than what you have been.

If you won't change, nothing else in your life will change either. If you will change, it will all change for you.

You may not know my career well, or as you claim lol, but you are somehow spot on, and I agree with you 100%. I won't give you concrete details, but after my first deferment this year (2014), I didn't realize how poor of a decision I made not using that time to focus on freelancing. It was until I spent maybe 5 months looking for a job in my area with no success and I realized how I could have spent that time doing the same thing for freelance work... and even to this day with the next deferment I'm getting next month. I wasted a whole year's worth of time fearing that I won't be able to pay off my student loans, and now I regret it and won't even make fearful decisions ever again. It's why I am so open about this as we speak tbh. I know the results of not being honest with myself now and I won't allow that to happen again. I rather take criticism and humiliation than to actually go through that experience again cuz it feels a lot worst than words and what people think of me. I am just being honest.

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

DO IT! You can edit it later! PULL THE TRIGGER AND POST THE LINK HERE!

Okay. I posted it an hour ago, but after reading this I feel like I will have to do a major overhaul to my for hire thread now. You can still read the copy I wrote from this link:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8vmfc1ikas...read.docx?dl=0

Also here is my other file with details on the services
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3apnrfk2s9...Info.docx?dl=0

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Underground

9 years ago

Originally Posted by jarod b

Well I focused on web design, but I also tried to be different from the other guys and offered web design, website maintenance... plus free website & marketing consulting, free front-end development, website copywriting walkthrough assistance, and a hosting option. But based on what your saying, it seems like I might have to focus on web design only and front-end development (cut out the other services)?

*** Just to be clear here, I was going to offer website copywriting walkthrough assistance, website & marketing consulting, a hosting option (hostgator), and website maintenance. But I'll cut those out and focus on website design and front-end development instead.

Okay then, I will focus strictly on providing an excellent experience and getting better at my craft. *Doing the happy dance* lol

Okay sure. I will update my special offer right now and say I'm doing it for free. But speaking of free and delivering excellent experience, do you think I should offer 5 clients work for free just to build up my portfolio or until I get 5 clients that are satisfied? This might sound like perfectionism, and I tend to have those tendencies lol... but I want to get it off my mind while I can. I really don't want to make this complicated to a point I'm accidentally overwhelmed.

You may not know my career well, or as you claim lol, but you are somehow spot on, and I agree with you 100%. I won't give you concrete details, but after my first deferment this year (2014), I didn't realize how poor of a decision I made not using that time to focus on freelancing. It was until I spent maybe 5 months looking for a job in my area with no success and I realized how I could have spent that time doing the same thing for freelance work... and even to this day with the next deferment I'm getting next month. I wasted a whole year's worth of time fearing that I won't be able to pay off my student loans, and now I regret it and won't even make fearful decisions ever again. It's why I am so open about this as we speak tbh. I know the results of not being honest with myself now and I won't allow that to happen again. I rather take criticism and humiliation than to actually go through that experience again cuz it feels a lot worst than words and what people think of me. I am just being honest.

Okay. I posted it an hour ago, but after reading this I feel like I will have to do a major overhaul to my for hire thread now. You can still read the copy I wrote from this link:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8vmfc1ikas...read.docx?dl=0

Also here is my other file with details on the services
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3apnrfk2s9...Info.docx?dl=0

You lucky b******.

This man will teach you to be a true winner, in life not just in business. He truly knows the way.

And fair play to you for being a good and willing student and willing to take the journey.

I really like the work that was in your portfolio and the site you created. You've got real skills that are only going to get better and put you way ahead of the pack as you acquire the rest of the skills you need to win.

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DaniMc

9 years ago

Originally Posted by jarod b

Okay. I posted it an hour ago, but after reading this I feel like I will have to do a major overhaul to my for hire thread now. You can still read the copy I wrote from this link:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8vmfc1ikas...read.docx?dl=0

Also here is my other file with details on the services
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3apnrfk2s9...Info.docx?dl=0

Where is the link to the thread? Post it here and put it in your sig.

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savidge4 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

Where is the link to the thread? Post it here and put it in your sig.

Hell...post the link, and I'll put it in MY sig!
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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

Where is the link to the thread? Post it here and put it in your sig.

I just got it approved a minute ago, but you have to pay to get it posted? I didn't know that... is it a one time payment or ongoing? If it's ongoing, idk how long I can last lol. but if it's one time, sure. I'll brb to see if it's a one time payment

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DaniMc

9 years ago

Originally Posted by jarod b

I just got it approved a minute ago, but you have to pay to get it posted? I didn't know that... is it a one time payment or ongoing? If it's ongoing, idk how long I can last lol. but if it's one time, sure. I'll brb to see if it's a one time payment

C'Mon man don't balk now. Commit. This is a small expense. There will be many more!

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jarod b 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

C'Mon man don't balk now. Commit. This is a small expense. There will be many more!

...Okay then... if you say so, but I am still confused if this will be a one time payment or ongoing... and especially if I have to pay to update my thread.
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DaniMc

9 years ago

Originally Posted by jarod b

Okay sure. I will update my special offer right now and say I'm doing it for free. But speaking of free and delivering excellent experience, do you think I should offer 5 clients work for free just to build up my portfolio or until I get 5 clients that are satisfied? This might sound like perfectionism, and I tend to have those tendencies lol... but I want to get it off my mind while I can. I really don't want to make this complicated to a point I'm accidentally overwhelmed.

I missed this question.

Make it your absolute ethical responsibility that EVERY client is satisfied. Look at dissatisfied clients as a major failure. The tendency is to blame the client - but that never helps you in any way.

At first, don't worry about how long each project takes or what the client is asking for. Eventually you will create a standard procedure and levels of service.

Right now - treat every client like gold, and work until they are happy.

I say this because one of the most important things you need to develop right now is the habit of excellence. This is a habit. Start it right from the beginning.

By the time you are charging more and your business is picking up, excellence will be your default standard and that habit will serve you very well.

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iAmNameLess

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

I missed this question.

Make it your absolute ethical responsibility that EVERY client is satisfied. Look at dissatisfied clients as a major failure. The tendency is to blame the client - but that never helps you in any way.

At first, don't worry about how long each project takes or what the client is asking for. Eventually you will create a standard procedure and levels of service.

Seriously, even if something is the client's fault, it doesn't matter. The client's fault is your fault, always.

An unhappy client costs you waaaaay more than you will make off of a couple happy clients.

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Cali16 9 years ago

Dan, I have been watching this thread since yesterday and am so impressed with 1) your willingness to help Jarod and 2) the excellent advice you are giving him.

Thank you so much for taking the time to do this, because you're also helping many others - myself included - with your words of wisdom!
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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

I missed this question.

Make it your absolute ethical responsibility that EVERY client is satisfied. Look at dissatisfied clients as a major failure. The tendency is to blame the client - but that never helps you in any way.

At first, don't worry about how long each project takes or what the client is asking for. Eventually you will create a standard procedure and levels of service.

Right now - treat every client like gold, and work until they are happy.

I say this because one of the most important things you need to develop right now is the habit of excellence. This is a habit. Start it right from the beginning.

By the time you are charging more and your business is picking up, excellence will be your default standard and that habit will serve you very well.

Gotcha. Develop a standard process of my own and focus on improving my level of service. Don't worry about the length of my first few projects and what the client is asking for.

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jarod b

9 years ago

Okay posted (see my signature link)

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DaniMc

9 years ago

Awesome!

There are others here who will do a much, much better job helping you with the sales letter. I hope some of them will jump in and help.

My first thought is the title - where it says [Low Risk] it should say something like [First 5 Clients are FREE] or something like that.

Then, inside at the very top - I would put in large print "Only 5 free slots left - post here and I will PM you details" or something like that.

Also, make sure you add your designs from your portfolio.

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jarod b

9 years ago

I am resizing my portfolio samples, but it just occured to me I don't have a questionnaire to ask questions. Do you think it's wise if I spring up a questionnaire on the fly?

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DaniMc

9 years ago

See - a new problem already! It's a good sign.

Sure throw one together. Does the company you intern with use one? Copy it.

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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

See - a new problem already! It's a good sign.

Sure throw one together. Does the company you intern with use one? Copy it.

Okay. I put one together in a web form just now, and I'm going to send it to the client.

http://jarodb.x10.mx/projectworksheet.html

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DaniMc

9 years ago

Originally Posted by jarod b

Okay. I put one together in a web form just now, and I'm going to send it to the client.

http://jarodb.x10.mx/projectworksheet.html

Suggested rewrite for the top paragraph:

Thank you for trusting me to help with your project! Kindly complete this Project Worksheet so I can give you the absolute best service. I realize it's quite a bit of information. If you would prefer to talk about these questions, I will personally help you with them. My Skype is:____ - just add me and let me know when you would like to talk. I am available from -AM to -PM Mon-Fri and -AM to -PM on Saturday. Thanks again and I appreciate the opportunity to help your business!

You will get more face to face communication this way - and people will know they didn't complete the form. They will see this as great service. never attempt to automate personal connections unless you absolutely have to. Right now, you can handle it! It is good practice to help you sell these clients on your service.

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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

Suggested rewrite for the top paragraph:

Thank you for trusting me to help with your project! Kindly complete this Project Worksheet so I can give you the absolute best service. I realize it's quite a bit of information. If you would prefer to talk about these questions, I will personally help you with them. My Skype is:____ - just add me and let me know when you would like to talk. I am available from -AM to -PM Mon-Fri and -AM to -PM on Saturday. Thanks again and I appreciate the opportunity to help your business!

You will get more face to face communication this way - and people will know they didn't complete the form. They will see this as great service. never attempt to automate personal connections unless you absolutely have to. Right now, you can handle it! It is good practice to help you sell these clients on your service.

Alright it's updated. I am going to send it off now

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DaniMc

9 years ago

I see you have your first client!!!!

OK - treat this person like they are a millionaire. Treat them as if they are worth a million dollars to you. Do not try to play it cool. Thank him for giving you the opportunity to help him.

In the future - treat every single person like they are worth a million dollars to your business. Make this your standard for the rest of your life.

Start a spreadsheet - put all his contact info in there. Name, email, skype, phone - and anything else that you may pick up along the way. Anyone from now on who contacts you, document them.

Start a client folder. Inside the client folder create a folder with his name. Inside there start a document that keeps track of every conversation. Take notes on every single thing. You will need these in the future.

Make sure to use the thanks button for any person who posts in your thread. Every post gets a thanks.

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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

I see you have your first client!!!!

OK - treat this person like they are a millionaire. Treat them as if they are worth a million dollars to you. Do not try to play it cool. Thank him for giving you the opportunity to help him.

In the future - treat every single person like they are worth a million dollars to your business. Make this your standard for the rest of your life.

Start a spreadsheet - put all his contact info in there. Name, email, skype, phone - and anything else that you may pick up along the way. Anyone from now on who contacts you, document them.

Start a client folder. Inside the client folder create a folder with his name. Inside there start a document that keeps track of every conversation. Take notes on every single thing. You will need these in the future.

Make sure to use the thanks button for any person who posts in your thread. Every post gets a thanks.

Okay. I just created an excel sheet and setup a folder.

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DaniMc

9 years ago

Oh and Jarod, you sir, are a badass. Great job. It's only been 5 days since your first post.

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jarod b 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

Oh and Jarod, you sir, are a badass. Great job. It's only been 5 days since your first post.

Lol to be honest, it feels like 2 days. Not that it's going super slow, but it feels like I'm just getting started
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jarod b

9 years ago

I just sent a message to my firstttttttttt client XD, but I am a bit nervous because I don't know if I sound too formal or weird. I hope it came off somewhat professional

Hey [HIDDEN NAME],

First, It's nice to meet you and thank you for the quick response to my offer.

Yes, I'd love to get together and chat over skype. We can do a digital face to face chat or text talk -- whichever is more comfortable for you.

Would you be willing to answer just a few quick questions so that I can prepare for our meet up? If so, I've left a link to a super simple worksheet that will help me get to know your business prior to our face to face. It will also save you some time as I can do some basic research.

Here is the link to the worksheet:

http://jarodb.x10.mx/projectworksheet.html

I'll follow up with a another PM and we'll lock in a time to meet.

Thank you!

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StarkContrast

9 years ago

Jarod, I wouldn't worry about how formal/informal you sound. I think I saw Luis on this very forum today! He's probably been following your every word anyhow.

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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by StarkContrast

Jarod, I wouldn't worry about how formal/informal you sound. I think I saw Luis on this very forum today! He's probably been following your every word anyhow.

Lol coincidentally I am actually talking to him on skype right now, and he thinks I am doing great so far

.

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jarod b

9 years ago

You know... i just got to thinking. We really turned this thread into a completely different conversation. Is there a chance a mod will come by on a bad day and lock our thread and I'll have to create another one? I mean (lol) what if this conversation needs to be posted in another section of the warrior forums? What if we're breaking rules doing this??

Also, earlier I said I would focus on just web design and front-end development. So I am going to do a revamp of my thread's copy and dumb it down to the actual services I'm offering. If there's anything you think I should keep I've create another word document in dropbox so you can compare them.

Old: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8vmfc1ikas...read.docx?dl=0

New: https://www.dropbox.com/s/il49s7sw4b...1.01.docx?dl=0

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DaniMc

9 years ago

I think we will be fine!

Don't forget there are only 4 slots left!

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jarod b 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

I think we will be fine!

Don't forget there are only 4 slots left!

He hasn't submitted a worksheet or responded to my PM yet, so I never updated it. Do you think I should update it?
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Underground

9 years ago

Having hired many different freelancers, if one of them had responded with same care and attention as you first email to a client, Jarod, I would be very reassured I was dealing with a person who was going to give my project their all, and was different from 99% of the others. It read very well and gave the right impression that their project is important to you and you're going to be very thorough in how you go about things.

Great work.

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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Underground

Having hired many different freelancers, if one of them had responded with same care and attention as you first email to a client, Jarod, I would be very reassured I was dealing with a person who was going to give my project their all, and was different from 99% of the others. It read very well and gave the right impression that their project is important to you and you're going to be very thorough in how you go about things.

Great work.

Thanks. Your words testify that I am on the right path

.

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DaniMc

9 years ago

Alright so you have some great activity on your sales thread!

Make sure you deliver awesome service to these guys like their project is the most important thing in the world - because to them, it is!

After you get the 5 projects done - it will be time for step 2!

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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

Alright so you have some great activity on your sales thread!

Make sure you deliver awesome service to these guys like their project is the most important thing in the world - because to them, it is!

After you get the 5 projects done - it will be time for step 2!

I will! I am so excited to start working with them right now I wish I could get started in Photoshop right now lol. I am going to learn so much, especially with that advice you gave me about building a procedure. I feel like I am going to do something great in the future

.

By the way, while I was going through all of the interested clients. I wondered if my signup process was too long and if it would bore them. So it would be great if you shared some thought about this:

Project Worksheet
Appointment Setting
Discovery 1: Project & Website Design
Discovery 2: Scope Q&A + Deposit
Kickoff + Deposit

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savidge4

9 years ago

Some Questions about your pricing...

Multi-Page Website - $97

Custom Website Design
The first 10 HTML template-pages are free! Extras are $20 each
Front-end Development (HTML + CSS and Javascript) - Free
Copywriting Walkthrough Assistance - Free
No CMS integration
No Website Maintenance
No Hosting

I don't have a problem with your Single page at $47.00 I might suggest 5 pages at $97.00 with each additional at $15.00?

I would give examples of the pages you "Normally" do IE Home Page, Content page with sidebar, Contact Us, About Us, and Full width with footer and header. Add on pages include Landing Pages, Img Galleries, Calendar pages etc. This is an opportunity to UPSELL out of the $97 and get into the $113 to $143 area.

Also, in doing this you can "Systemize" your work by laying out these components in their assorted pieces in "Templates" as it were within Photoshop. So if you are working on the button bar, you could then goto the button bar template. Working on the side bar, then the side bar template, The footer, the header etc. You then can hand the client a full page photoshop file, with all of the pieces.

Your website and maintenance packages... This is actually something that has been discussed on this forum in particular with some amount of detail. The over all consensus is to charge in the $50 a month category for BOTH hosting and Maintenance. to include free changes. As iAmNameless has mentioned more than once it works out in the end.

An added bonus for this offer could be to offer the first month Hosting and Maintenance FREE when hosting a site made by you. Keep in mind this is a point of continual income.

I recently sold my web design service with in excess of 1000 clients and had them all on a residual maintenance program. I believe I recently read the iAm has in the order of the same. 1000 X $50 Is a big chunk of change every month...

Because your product is ( your words) "Website will not be user-friendly to manage. I should say right now that my websites are unfortunately unequipped with no CMS integration" this becomes an obvious point of pre-selling your Hosing / Maintenance service. Change the bullets "No Website Maintenance" "No Hosting" to "Website Maintenance - see below" and "Hosting - see below"

In terms of looking at the value of a client, in your case the build may be $100. and to be honest, that is not much value. but add $600 year in hosting / Maintenance and things start to happen Capt. $600 then $1200 then $2400 and so on. your client value incrementally increases, and as you provide value, clients may have 2, 3, and 5 properties hosted with you.

Negative points.... Your copy has more than a few. like the text above: "Website will not be user-friendly to manage. I should say right now that my websites are unfortunately unequipped with no CMS integration" how is this unfortunate? Its NOT unfortunate.. its CUSTOM. turn these points into a positive.

Hope that Helps!
P.S. Don't forget to "Thanks" each post on your sales thread!

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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

Some Questions about your pricing...

Multi-Page Website - $97

Custom Website Design
The first 10 HTML template-pages are free! Extras are $20 each
Front-end Development (HTML + CSS and Javascript) - Free
Copywriting Walkthrough Assistance - Free
No CMS integration
No Website Maintenance
No Hosting

I don't have a problem with your Single page at $47.00 I might suggest 5 pages at $97.00 with each additional at $15.00?

I would give examples of the pages you "Normally" do IE Home Page, Content page with sidebar, Contact Us, About Us, and Full width with footer and header. Add on pages include Landing Pages, Img Galleries, Calendar pages etc. This is an opportunity to UPSELL out of the $97 and get into the $113 to $143 area.

Also, in doing this you can "Systemize" your work by laying out these components in their assorted pieces in "Templates" as it were within Photoshop. So if you are working on the button bar, you could then goto the button bar template. Working on the side bar, then the side bar template, The footer, the header etc. You then can hand the client a full page photoshop file, with all of the pieces.

Your website and maintenance packages... This is actually something that has been discussed on this forum in particular with some amount of detail. The over all consensus is to charge in the $50 a month category for BOTH hosting and Maintenance. to include free changes. As iAmNameless has mentioned more than once it works out in the end.

An added bonus for this offer could be to offer the first month Hosting and Maintenance FREE when hosting a site made by you. Keep in mind this is a point of continual income.

I recently sold my web design service with in excess of 1000 clients and had them all on a residual maintenance program. I believe I recently read the iAm has in the order of the same. 1000 X $50 Is a big chunk of change every month...

Because your product is ( your words) "Website will not be user-friendly to manage. I should say right now that my websites are unfortunately unequipped with no CMS integration" this becomes an obvious point of pre-selling your Hosing / Maintenance service. Change the bullets "No Website Maintenance" "No Hosting" to "Website Maintenance - see below" and "Hosting - see below"

In terms of looking at the value of a client, in your case the build may be $100. and to be honest, that is not much value. but add $600 year in hosting / Maintenance and things start to happen Capt. $600 then $1200 then $2400 and so on. your client value incrementally increases, and as you provide value, clients may have 2, 3, and 5 properties hosted with you.

Negative points.... Your copy has more than a few. like the text above: "Website will not be user-friendly to manage. I should say right now that my websites are unfortunately unequipped with no CMS integration" how is this unfortunate? Its NOT unfortunate.. its CUSTOM. turn these points into a positive.

Hope that Helps!
P.S. Don't forget to "Thanks" each post on your sales thread!

Originally Posted by savidge4

I would give examples of the pages you "Normally" do IE Home Page, Content page with sidebar, Contact Us, About Us, and Full width with footer and header. Add on pages include Landing Pages, Img Galleries, Calendar pages etc. This is an opportunity to UPSELL out of the $97 and get into the $113 to $143 area.

Are you talking about upselling website features? Like img galleries, calendars, testimonial manager, etc?

Originally Posted by savidge4

Also, in doing this you can "Systemize" your work by laying out these components in their assorted pieces in "Templates" as it were within Photoshop. So if you are working on the button bar, you could then goto the button bar template. Working on the side bar, then the side bar template, The footer, the header etc. You then can hand the client a full page photoshop file, with all of the pieces.

It seems like you're talking about creating a library of PSD design elements to speed up the design process. Am I right?

Originally Posted by savidge4

Your website and maintenance packages... This is actually something that has been discussed on this forum in particular with some amount of detail. The over all consensus is to charge in the $50 a month category for BOTH hosting and Maintenance. to include free changes. As iAmNameless has mentioned more than once it works out in the end.

An added bonus for this offer could be to offer the first month Hosting and Maintenance FREE when hosting a site made by you. Keep in mind this is a point of continual income.

I recently sold my web design service with in excess of 1000 clients and had them all on a residual maintenance program. I believe I recently read the iAm has in the order of the same. 1000 X $50 Is a big chunk of change every month...

I will keep the hosting and maintenance in mind. For now, I'm going to focus on HTML + CSS template designs like Dan suggested. But I plan to eventually work up to maintenance and hosting if the client asks. As for the numbers, I noticed that myself when I was putting together my services. Web design is a one-time thing and is a one-and-done type of job. But maintenance and hosting on the other hand is a repeat job, and I know that would be really great business for me in terms of revenue.

So what I'm saying is: as I started to consider what iAmNameLess said about underestimating efforts, I figured I'd just start with web design and work my way up toward maintenance and hosting. Funny thing is I am actually trying to figure out how I'm going to keep up with designing, developing, doing Q&A meetings, and meeting with new clients, so I'm going to ask Dan how I can book clients with a schedule and how I can deal with overflowing job requests. I think this amount of responsibility itself is starting to be a concern for me.

Originally Posted by savidge4

Because your product is ( your words) "Website will not be user-friendly to manage. I should say right now that my websites are unfortunately unequipped with no CMS integration" this becomes an obvious point of pre-selling your Hosing / Maintenance service. Change the bullets "No Website Maintenance" "No Hosting" to "Website Maintenance - see below" and "Hosting - see below"

I will keep this in mind too. That's honestly a better idea!

Originally Posted by savidge4

In terms of looking at the value of a client, in your case the build may be $100. and to be honest, that is not much value. but add $600 year in hosting / Maintenance and things start to happen Capt. $600 then $1200 then $2400 and so on. your client value incrementally increases, and as you provide value, clients may have 2, 3, and 5 properties hosted with you.

To be honest, I think I understand the idea behind the value a client has, but when you throw those numbers together like that, I feel like I am not so sure anymore lol. It seems like you are saying their annual value right now is $100, but with maintenance, they could go up $600 and possibly higher than $1,200 if they have multiple websites hosted with me?

Originally Posted by savidge4

Negative points.... Your copy has more than a few. like the text above: "Website will not be user-friendly to manage. I should say right now that my websites are unfortunately unequipped with no CMS integration" how is this unfortunate? Its NOT unfortunate.. its CUSTOM. turn these points into a positive.

Haha I'm smiling, and I feel guilty in a positive way somehow, but I agree, and I will fix them lol. Let me know what you think when you check up on it

.

Originally Posted by savidge4

Hope that Helps!
P.S. Don't forget to "Thanks" each post on your sales thread!

I have been so busy trying to process PMs, Emails, and setting up appointments that I forgot about this. Thanks for the reminder!

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savidge4

9 years ago

Originally Posted by jarod b

Are you talking about upselling website features? Like img galleries, calendars, testimonial manager, etc?

yes and no. As I see it, when you are offering 10 pages... people will want 10 pages. if they need them or not. by narrowing the offer and selectively suggesting pages you are drawing focus to the primary pages of interest, and by default creating a manageable work flow. The 5 pages I listed are the foundation to any and every website. in essence that is all their is. yes there will be pages needed outside of that IE Img galleries etc. but those become out of the norm, and hence
up charged from the initial "needed" pages.

Originally Posted by jarod b

It seems like you're talking about creating a library of PSD design elements to speed up the design process. Am I right?

Yes absolutely. a page is a page is a page. I build hundreds - thousands of pages a year and they come in about 10 varieties at most. Homepages for the most part look the same. Squeeze pages ( good ones) look the same. Image Galleries, look the same. content pages with right side bars.. look the same.

If they LOOK the same, they are built the same. its the color and the detail ( buttons, logos etc ) that change. No sense in re-inventing the wheel every time you build a page.

Originally Posted by jarod b

I will keep the hosting and maintenance in mind. For now, I'm going to focus on HTML + CSS template designs like Dan suggested. But I plan to eventually work up to maintenance and hosting if the client asks. As for the numbers, I noticed that myself when I was putting together my services. Web design is a one-time thing and is a one-and-done type of job. But maintenance and hosting on the other hand is a repeat job, and I know that would be really great business for me in terms of revenue.

I didn't notice you yanked it. a good idea overall for now.

Originally Posted by jarod b

So what I'm saying is: as I started to consider what iAmNameLess said about underestimating efforts, I figured I'd just start with web design and work my way up toward maintenance and hosting. Funny thing is I am actually trying to figure out how I'm going to keep up with designing, developing, doing Q&A meetings, and meeting with new clients, so I'm going to ask Dan how I can book clients with a schedule and how I can deal with overflowing job requests. I think this amount of responsibility itself is starting to be a concern for me.

This right here... comes with time. A job comes in you slot them in. You get the needed info ( text images ) and general layout concepts. I personally work with 4 basic layout concepts. Depending on the needs pushes towards a layout, if there is a question I blank mach the options and present. - FOR ME - at this point the project is going to "production" I then start the inbound process on the next project. ( getting the text the images etc takes an amount of time. while that happens, you then complete the first job.

Job 3 comes in the funnel, job 2 gets completed... job 4 comes in the funnel, job 3 is completed. Its a flow... and it happens naturally. I will tell you it is not to uncommon to have for instance job 4 get done before 3. simply because you are waiting on text and images. You just learn to go with the flow and move forward.

You have probably read iAm talk about it, I have talked about it, Dan is asking you specifically about it... its the process, how do you have this systemized. Without a system.. with out that flow... you will flounder.

Right now you have 5 clients... AND you are keeping up with this thread hahaha. I am more than sure you are juggling and thinking what the heck did I get myself into. Segment each job into 2 parts; inbound (getting the details ) and outbound ( completion )

Originally Posted by jarod b

To be honest, I think I understand the idea behind the value a client has, but when you throw those numbers together like that, I feel like I am not so sure anymore lol. It seems like you are saying their annual value right now is $100, but with maintenance, they could go up $600 and possibly higher than $1,200 if they have multiple websites hosted with me?

client value... I have 1 client I have had for the better part of 12 years... what are they worth? To be more specific I bill them $1000 a month host 8 sites right now and in general will build and or rebuild at least 2 sites a year for them. Last year specifically ( was just doing my books ) I billed $22,000 to them specifically (and it was a slow year for them ). multiply that times 12 yrs and you start to understand client value.

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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

yes and no. As I see it, when you are offering 10 pages... people will want 10 pages. if they need them or not. by narrowing the offer and selectively suggesting pages you are drawing focus to the primary pages of interest, and by default creating a manageable work flow. The 5 pages I listed are the foundation to any and every website. in essence that is all their is. yes there will be pages needed outside of that IE Img galleries etc. but those become out of the norm, and hence
up charged from the initial "needed" pages.

Ooooo I think I see what you mean now. So my multi-page package would include a homepage, about us, content page, and contact info page, but additional pages and features will cost extra and are the upsells? Right?

Originally Posted by savidge4

Yes absolutely. a page is a page is a page. I build hundreds - thousands of pages a year and they come in about 10 varieties at most. Homepages for the most part look the same. Squeeze pages ( good ones) look the same. Image Galleries, look the same. content pages with right side bars.. look the same.

If they LOOK the same, they are built the same. its the color and the detail ( buttons, logos etc ) that change. No sense in re-inventing the wheel every time you build a page.

True that. You know, about a year ago, I scanned through an article once and it talked about using a library of UI elements to speed up the web design process. What you're talking about is almost the same thing, but is another idea to try out. I will use this to my advantage

.

Originally Posted by savidge4

This right here... comes with time. A job comes in you slot them in. You get the needed info ( text images ) and general layout concepts. I personally work with 4 basic layout concepts. Depending on the needs pushes towards a layout, if there is a question I blank mach the options and present. - FOR ME - at this point the project is going to "production" I then start the inbound process on the next project. ( getting the text the images etc takes an amount of time. while that happens, you then complete the first job.

Job 3 comes in the funnel, job 2 gets completed... job 4 comes in the funnel, job 3 is completed. Its a flow... and it happens naturally. I will tell you it is not to uncommon to have for instance job 4 get done before 3. simply because you are waiting on text and images. You just learn to go with the flow and move forward.

You have probably read iAm talk about it, I have talked about it, Dan is asking you specifically about it... its the process, how do you have this systemized. Without a system.. with out that flow... you will flounder.

Right now you have 5 clients... AND you are keeping up with this thread hahaha. I am more than sure you are juggling and thinking what the heck did I get myself into. Segment each job into 2 parts; inbound (getting the details ) and outbound ( completion )

So let me get this straight. When I'm working on a project, all I would do is match their design requirements/requests, and present to them. And while I'm waiting for their feedback, I can fit a new job in and work on getting the next project prepared and started. And when the next project is completed, I can move onto the next one that's been prepared with text and images?

Well my next question is what happens when I complete a project and the next project isn't prepared yet?

Also, what happens when I haven't completed my current project but the next one is prepared and is ready to start. What do I do in this situation?

Originally Posted by savidge4

client value... I have 1 client I have had for the better part of 12 years... what are they worth? To be more specific I bill them $1000 a month host 8 sites right now and in general will build and or rebuild at least 2 sites a year for them. Last year specifically ( was just doing my books ) I billed $22,000 to them specifically (and it was a slow year for them ). multiply that times 12 yrs and you start to understand client value.

That is really impressive for 1 client alone lol.

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savidge4

9 years ago

Originally Posted by jarod b

Ooooo I think I see what you mean now. So my multi-page package would include a homepage, about us, content page, and contact info page, but additional pages and features will cost extra and are the upsells? Right?

Correct. those pages that are out of the "ordinary" that you will be developing one off, you want to extend that price to reflect that. Most people will probably opt for the 5 pages if they are making some kind of niche page etc ( within THIS Forum market ) and those added pages should be just that.. added.

Originally Posted by jarod b

True that. You know, about a year ago, I scanned through an article once and it talked about using a library of UI elements to speed up the web design process. What you're talking about is almost the same thing, but is another idea to try out. I will use this to my advantage

.

Systemization is the key to volume. I would be dead in the water without it. It is infinitely worth the time to develop these things, they pay off in time saved not so long down the road.

Originally Posted by jarod b

So let me get this straight. When I'm working on a project, all I would do is match their design requirements/requests, and present to them. And while I'm waiting for their feedback, I can fit a new job in and work on getting the next project prepared and started. And when the next project is completed, I can move onto the next one that's been prepared with text and images?

Well my next question is what happens when I complete a project and the next project isn't prepared yet?

Its the juggle man... Yes you try to set one, then complete another set one complete another. like I said it happens 4 gets done before 3. The Que is in the order you place it. 4 really wont know it was done before 3 - if 3 is slow to get you what you need.

Originally Posted by jarod b

Also, what happens when I haven't completed my current project but the next one is prepared and is ready to start. What do I do in this situation?

Welcome to back log... a really good place to be if you are backed up 1 or 2 positions. you simply complete them in order that's all. one project in the actual design phase - start to finish, and out the door, the cashier will ring you up. NEXT PLEASE. easy easy

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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

Correct. those pages that are out of the "ordinary" that you will be developing one off, you want to extend that price to reflect that. Most people will probably opt for the 5 pages if they are making some kind of niche page etc ( within THIS Forum market ) and those added pages should be just that.. added.

Alright. On my thread yesterday, I updated it and I want to know what you think so far:

The first 5 HTML pages are free (homepage, about page, contact page, and services/products page. The last one is whatever you want)! Extras are $15 each

Originally Posted by savidge4

Systemization is the key to volume. I would be dead in the water without it. It is infinitely worth the time to develop these things, they pay off in time saved not so long down the road.

I'm glad you say that. I am going to write down business management process and business operation process for myself. I do tend to get confused on what I previously did today for my business.

Originally Posted by savidge4

Its the juggle man... Yes you try to set one, then complete another set one complete another. like I said it happens 4 gets done before 3. The Que is in the order you place it. 4 really wont know it was done before 3 - if 3 is slow to get you what you need.

Okay. I am honestly still confused, but maybe that's because I haven't fully processed it yet and I just need to experience it, but I will let you know in the future when this concern arises again.

Originally Posted by savidge4

Welcome to back log... a really good place to be if you are backed up 1 or 2 positions. you simply complete them in order that's all. one project in the actual design phase - start to finish, and out the door, the cashier will ring you up. NEXT PLEASE. easy easy

So basically I'll just need to reschedule with my next client about their project start date? Or do I blitz through the current one to get it finished first, and then focus on the next one?

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iAmNameLess

9 years ago

Originally Posted by jarod b

By the way, while I was going through all of the interested clients. I wondered if my signup process was too long and if it would bore them. So it would be great if you shared some thought about this:

Project Worksheet
Appointment Setting
Discovery 1: Project & Website Design
Discovery 2: Scope Q&A + Deposit
Kickoff + Deposit

Yes, it's too long. You're actually working against yourself with this process, and you will lose many potential leads along the way.

Assuming you have already qualified someone and you separated them from prospect status into an actual lead, then it really is quite simple.

1.) If you have web design packages, determine which package would be best for them or which one they want.
2.) Project worksheet, which should really be quite simple. If you're talking to someone over the phone then cover the basics, business owners don't have time for worksheets, make it as easy as possible.
3.) Collect payment and send the receipt.

For me... I don't even have to use a project worksheet before getting payment, they submit payment and I send them a receipt with a list of things they should send me.

You need to make it stupid easy for someone to do business with you. Forget about what big design companies do... they're going for larger contracts and need long sales processes, or at least they think they do.

Everything you do... make it as easy as possible.

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DaniMc

9 years ago

Originally Posted by iAmNameLess

Yes, it's too long. You're actually working against yourself with this process, and you will lose many potential leads along the way.

Assuming you have already qualified someone and you separated them from prospect status into an actual lead, then it really is quite simple.

1.) If you have web design packages, determine which package would be best for them or which one they want.
2.) Project worksheet, which should really be quite simple. If you're talking to someone over the phone then cover the basics, business owners don't have time for worksheets, make it as easy as possible.
3.) Collect payment and send the receipt.

For me... I don't even have to use a project worksheet before getting payment, they submit payment and I send them a receipt with a list of things they should send me.

You need to make it stupid easy for someone to do business with you. Forget about what big design companies do... they're going for larger contracts and need long sales processes, or at least they think they do.

Everything you do... make it as easy as possible.

If anything he says contradicts something I say - listen to him, not me. He knows EXACTLY what he is talking about.

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iAmNameLess

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

2 - Are there any steps you can combine? When evaluating this - don't look for things that will make it easier for you. Look for things that can make it easier for the client. The easier things are for clients - the better your business will be. This is what it means to innovate.

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

If anything he says contradicts something I say - listen to him, not me. He knows EXACTLY what he is talking about.

I think we're on the same page. We usually think a lot alike it seems..

One thing is for sure though, this thread is really what this community should all be about. A lot of people really investing a lot of time for this guy and trying to help. No BS... and he is actually acting on what he's learning.

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jarod b 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

If anything he says contradicts something I say - listen to him, not me. He knows EXACTLY what he is talking about.

Well I think that's a GO then, so I will do it
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DaniMc

9 years ago

Originally Posted by iAmNameLess

For me... I don't even have to use a project worksheet before getting payment, they submit payment and I send them a receipt with a list of things they should send me.

This part of your post is really key for me. The first consult should be selling and getting them to commit to use you.

Once they pay, then the work can begin on the project worksheets and such.

I think it serves the client better too once you have a good rep going. Right now Jarod is offering payment AFTER the project is complete. He's going to have to change that eventually but it seems like a good risk reversal for him to get started.

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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

This part of your post is really key for me. The first consult should be selling and getting them to commit to use you.

Once they pay, then the work can begin on the project worksheets and such.

I think it serves the client better too once you have a good rep going. Right now Jarod is offering payment AFTER the project is complete. He's going to have to change that eventually but it seems like a good risk reversal for him to get started.

Actually, I updated my thread and I took off that deal to pay after completion. Should I add it back? I still have the old version of that thread with the copy ready for paste.

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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by iAmNameLess

Yes, it's too long. You're actually working against yourself with this process, and you will lose many potential leads along the way.

Assuming you have already qualified someone and you separated them from prospect status into an actual lead, then it really is quite simple.

1.) If you have web design packages, determine which package would be best for them or which one they want.
2.) Project worksheet, which should really be quite simple. If you're talking to someone over the phone then cover the basics, business owners don't have time for worksheets, make it as easy as possible.
3.) Collect payment and send the receipt.

For me... I don't even have to use a project worksheet before getting payment, they submit payment and I send them a receipt with a list of things they should send me.

You need to make it stupid easy for someone to do business with you. Forget about what big design companies do... they're going for larger contracts and need long sales processes, or at least they think they do.

Everything you do... make it as easy as possible.

Hmm. Now that you mention talking about it over the phone, I did wonder how long my project worksheet and design brief would take if I did both of them together in 1 meeting. If I merge them together and they are doable, then I can easily cut down from 3 meetings to 2 meetings. One to talk about their business, project, and website, and another to come back and ask some questions.

I've been following Dan's lead most of the thread, so I want to know what he thinks about this.

Originally Posted by iAmNameLess

Assuming you have already qualified someone and you separated them from prospect status into an actual lead, then it really is quite simple.

You used the words prospect and lead, and the way you use them are like 2 different meanings when I thought they were the same thing (just different words). What's the difference?

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iAmNameLess

9 years ago

Originally Posted by jarod b

Hmm. Now that you mention talking about it over the phone, I did wonder how long my project worksheet and design brief would take if I did both of them together in 1 meeting. If I merge them together and they are doable, then I can easily cut down from 3 meetings to 2 meetings. One to talk about their business, project, and website, and another to come back and ask some questions.

I've been following Dan's lead most of the thread, so I want to know what he thinks about this.

You used the words prospect and lead, and the way you use them are like 2 different meanings when I thought they were the same thing (just different words). What's the difference?

I think you need to start thinking about this.... keep doing what everyone has advised, but you need to at some point figure out a way to be able to take someone from being a lead, to a buyer in 15 minutes or less, with no in person meeting. How can you do that?

With the prices you have, you can't justify meeting even once, let alone 3 times. You have to realize that your time is money.

Maybe I'm trying to get you too far ahead... I realize you'll have to go through the ringer a bit, and reach another level until some things start to make sense.

As for the difference between a lead and a prospect... a prospect is information on a business, a phone book listing, a phone number and name... A prospect is someone that you think might be interested in what you have to offer, but you have no idea if they really are or not. A lead is someone that was originally a prospect, that you have talked to and found out their level of interest.

Prospect ---> Lead -----> Customer

Of course, not all leads are created equal... and we could get into a lead scoring system but I don't believe that's really going to be beneficial for you at this point.

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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by iAmNameLess

I think you need to start thinking about this.... keep doing what everyone has advised, but you need to at some point figure out a way to be able to take someone from being a lead, to a buyer in 15 minutes or less, with no in person meeting. How can you do that?

With the prices you have, you can't justify meeting even once, let alone 3 times. You have to realize that your time is money.

Maybe I'm trying to get you too far ahead... I realize you'll have to go through the ringer a bit, and reach another level until some things start to make sense.

As for the difference between a lead and a prospect... a prospect is information on a business, a phone book listing, a phone number and name... A prospect is someone that you think might be interested in what you have to offer, but you have no idea if they really are or not. A lead is someone that was originally a prospect, that you have talked to and found out their level of interest.

Prospect ---> Lead -----> Customer

Of course, not all leads are created equal... and we could get into a lead scoring system but I don't believe that's really going to be beneficial for you at this point.

I agree. Now that it's been a few days now, and I'm still trying to get appointments situated, I'm realizing this is not effective in terms of revenue. Right now I'm doing work free for clients, but if they were paying, that would be a lot of consulting with them and then design and development.

I want to skip the consulting part for now, but I'm concerned if it will affect the client's investment and understanding of my services. I mean, I want to do a simple fill out questionnaire > receive concept > review/approval process, but what if there's a client who thinks their website will work simply because it's on the internet and then think I'm offering an ineffective deal? Wouldn't I have been better off consulting with them about this ahead of time? And so I"m not sure if I want them to just fill out my design questionnaire. But I know I'll have to if I want to keep consistent income? It's just a hard decision

.

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thet

9 years ago

Jarod, my hats off to you.

We are sort of in the same spot. I think you are a bit younger then me but that shouldn't matter. You are making a great start where i should start afresh.

Dan, underground and savidge.. great advice. I especially liked the knowing about versus knowing how to. Also, focus being key is simple but profound.

Jarod, again, great thread and i wish you all the best for 2015. You have the right mindset, something i have to work on. With the mentoring here i am sure you will become a rockstar! Good luck

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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by thet

Jarod, my hats off to you.

We are sort of in the same spot. I think you are a bit younger then me but that shouldn't matter. You are making a great start where i should start afresh.

Dan, underground and savidge.. great advice. I especially liked the knowing about versus knowing how to. Also, focus being key is simple but profound.

Jarod, again, great thread and i wish you all the best for 2015. You have the right mindset, something i have to work on. With the mentoring here i am sure you will become a rockstar! Good luck

Thanks! But I'll share something with you, and I wanted to get this out here anyways when I could.

It wasn't easy figuring out what I wanted to actually do for my career. I went to college for 2 years, and have been unemployed for 3 years now trying to figure out how I'm going to survive in my career financially. I mean, I didn't want a job from the start at all. All my life I wanted to be a freelancer / entrepreneur, and until Dan came along I didn't know how I was going to go from freelancer to entrepreneur, and now I feel like I do.

Even if this doesn't work out in the end, I know for sure how I want to get to my end-goal in my career because Dan already gave me a huge gold nugget, and that's following my client needs. At some point web design will lead to maintenance, then WP integration, then figuring out how to sell leads, and it's all going to happy in time. I already have 90% of the pieces to my career right there lol.

But thanks for the support. And one thing I will say to you is, I looked at a thread of mine back last year about a client I once dealt with and the conversation was horrible compared to what I think now about it vs what I thought at the time lol. So I think it's just a personal development thing and learning to follow your bliss. It sounds cliche, and it didn't make sense to be at first, but only action can clarify the meaning of follow your bliss. I still can't explain why to this day, but I know it works... I mean I went from trying to find outsourcers to starting at the bottom with web design, and look at how happy I am all of a sudden lmao. It just shows that the saying works somehow. Good luck man, and I hope you'll come through. I would like to meet people around my age. It's great to make new friends

.

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netbroker

9 years ago

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DaniMc

9 years ago

Originally Posted by jarod b

I will! I am so excited to start working with them right now I wish I could get started in Photoshop right now lol. I am going to learn so much, especially with that advice you gave me about building a procedure. I feel like I am going to do something great in the future

.

By the way, while I was going through all of the interested clients. I wondered if my signup process was too long and if it would bore them. So it would be great if you shared some thought about this:

Project Worksheet
Appointment Setting
Discovery 1: Project & Website Design
Discovery 2: Scope Q&A + Deposit
Kickoff + Deposit

I am so stoked for you! You will be making money soon - but don't get distracted by that. Work as hard as you can to make these people happy. That is all that matters. As we move forward, we will start calculating and tweaking things - but don't do any of that now.

As for your process, I'll just ask questions to help you come up with your own answers.

1 - How do you feel about the sign-up process? If you think it is boring, the clients probably do too.

2 - Are there any steps you can combine? When evaluating this - don't look for things that will make it easier for you. Look for things that can make it easier for the client. The easier things are for clients - the better your business will be. This is what it means to innovate.

3 - Who are most of your clients so far? Are they end-users of the website? Or, are they selling your service to someone else? If they sell for someone else, what can you do to make things easier for them?

In the past, when I was servicing marketing clients - my designer would work directly with my clients. It was great. The client paid me, and we had conference calls together. I would frequently have the designer, the copywriter, and campaign manager on the phone at the same time. It was very productive and made my life easier, and it served the client better. Maybe as part of your onboarding process, if they are reselling your service, you can offer to work directly with the client to answer the questions on a conference call.

PS- Look at savidge4's signature. Look at what he has done for you! He has an awesome headline and concept. See if you can incorporate what he has written!

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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

I am so stoked for you! You will be making money soon - but don't get distracted by that. Work as hard as you can to make these people happy. That is all that matters. As we move forward, we will start calculating and tweaking things - but don't do any of that now.

As for your process, I'll just ask questions to help you come up with your own answers.

1 - How do you feel about the sign-up process? If you think it is boring, the clients probably do too.

2 - Are there any steps you can combine? When evaluating this - don't look for things that will make it easier for you. Look for things that can make it easier for the client. The easier things are for clients - the better your business will be. This is what it means to innovate.

3 - Who are most of your clients so far? Are they end-users of the website? Or, are they selling your service to someone else? If they sell for someone else, what can you do to make things easier for them?

In the past, when I was servicing marketing clients - my designer would work directly with my clients. It was great. The client paid me, and we had conference calls together. I would frequently have the designer, the copywriter, and campaign manager on the phone at the same time. It was very productive and made my life easier, and it served the client better. Maybe as part of your onboarding process, if they are reselling your service, you can offer to work directly with the client to answer the questions on a conference call.

PS- Look at savidge4's signature. Look at what he has done for you! He has an awesome headline and concept. See if you can incorporate what he has written!

1 - How do you feel about the sign-up process? If you think it is boring, the clients probably do too.
Ha... I kind of don't know what to expect, but I am concerned cuz I don't have natural people skills. I don't really have conversations regularly like I should, so I am typically dusty on making conversation with people, but I want to improve it. The web design community is generally open-hearted with strangers from my view, and I'd really like to be a part of that energy. But I don't talk often to new strangers, so it's typically a bit of challenge to me.

2 - Are there any steps you can combine? When evaluating this - don't look for things that will make it easier for you. Look for things that can make it easier for the client. The easier things are for clients - the better your business will be. This is what it means to innovate.
I want to combine the scope Q&A somehow, but I don't know where I would merge it. Also I once read that more interactions with a new client builds a stronger relationship and higher trust, so I am also looking for at least 4 interactions to keep my clients unconcerned. I think I will keep it as it is for now. If clients consistently show signs of boredom then I'll reconsider this. For now I just want to see how effective my current idea is for them.

3 - Who are most of your clients so far? Are they end-users of the website? Or, are they selling your service to someone else? If they sell for someone else, what can you do to make things easier for them?
From the 3 project's I've analyzed for Q&A, there seems to be a trend of entrepreneurs who will need more website design jobs in the future. One does marketing and is a new business, but the other two seem to own multiple websites already. So I would say my clients are entrepreneurs so far.

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

In the past, when I was servicing marketing clients - my designer would work directly with my clients. It was great. The client paid me, and we had conference calls together. I would frequently have the designer, the copywriter, and campaign manager on the phone at the same time. It was very productive and made my life easier, and it served the client better. Maybe as part of your onboarding process, if they are reselling your service, you can offer to work directly with the client to answer the questions on a conference call.

You know what? When I started my graphic design intern, my boss let me listen in on a conference call. It was him as the graphic designer and a marketing lady. And when the client asked about design, that was most of the time my boss spoke. But when it came to who the market was, the amount of people the business owner signed up so far, and etc, the marketing lady spoke. I never got to meet her, but now I see what they were doing lol. And I believe you. On our end, the room was mostly quiet and we could still do work while talking with the business owner at the same time. And really man, that moment was very convenient for me and my boss when I think about it now. I will keep this idea in mind. Man you are a genius! I would have never thought about this moment had you never mentioned that LOL.

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

I am so stoked for you! You will be making money soon - but don't get distracted by that. Work as hard as you can to make these people happy. That is all that matters. As we move forward, we will start calculating and tweaking things - but don't do any of that now.

I am doing what I can to get my mind off the money! But I am looking at my thread and seeing it at the bottom already so I'm wondering how often I'll have to pay to get it bumped and if I will have the funds to keep up with it. I don't have income coming in monthly or weekly, so I hope my first few jobs will be awesome and give me an opportunity to reinvest.

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

PS- Look at savidge4's signature. Look at what he has done for you! He has an awesome headline and concept. See if you can incorporate what he has written!

LOL that makes me blush XD. I'll ask him if I can borrow that signature. I like it as it is. It's amazing

.

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

Thanks

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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by netbroker

Want a simple entry route to offer up-sales to the business owner? Do what I do:

1. Pick a local business Niche.
2. Check for any reviews for the business.
3. Make a very short review video for them.
4. Rank it.
5. Contact them to say you have made a review video for them and it is ranking.

Obviously there is a bit more to it than that.. however I have cornered this way so much so that I make residual income of around $3,000 a month.. with this just alone.. I then get asked for other services ie SEO.. WEB development etc.. I always say yes to everything.. head over to Fiverr find a decent Gig and get them to do it.. Arbitrage is the word i think I want to use.

Sorry if I may have slightly diverted away from the question a little.. but this can be scaled up with a very small set up fee and proper format that I use... It took me 2 months to get to the point I am at the moment.. (I also have a full time job day job..)

Be Lucky

Netbroker

PS: (forgot(.... my niche is the restaurant trade.. cheers

Interesting. I asked Dan this question before, but it's great to know how others are finding time for their business as well. How are you able to meet with your new clients? I am actually trying to figure that out right now as I type this. I see myself doing web design, front-end development, working with current clients about their project so far, and signing up new clients. Obviously this still takes a lot of time, but kind of do not see myself having enough time to extend when I'm working on a project while also talking to new or existing clients. How do you make time for these situations?

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DaniMc

9 years ago

Originally Posted by jarod b

Funny thing is I am actually trying to figure out how I'm going to keep up with designing, developing, doing Q&A meetings, and meeting with new clients, so I'm going to ask Dan how I can book clients with a schedule and how I can deal with overflowing job requests. I think this amount of responsibility itself is starting to be a concern for me.

Originally Posted by jarod b

Interesting. I asked Dan this question before, but it's great to know how others are finding time for their business as well. How are you able to meet with your new clients? I am actually trying to figure that out right now as I type this. I see myself doing web design, front-end development, working with current clients about their project so far, and signing up new clients. Obviously this still takes a lot of time, but kind of do not see myself having enough time to extend when I'm working on a project while also talking to new or existing clients. How do you make time for these situations?

Time management is a key skill in running any business. Trust me, you have time. You would amazed at how much one person can accomplish in a day.

What systems are you using right now to organize your time? Do you have some kind of task manager and calendar?

How are you organized?

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Luis Michael Orts

9 years ago

Jarod, I didn't think the form was bad at all. I would try to break it down into easier to digest pieces... like... in steps.

I'll look back at the form to see if there are any questions that could be answered more efficiently. I'll give you a little feedback.

But yes, the easier it is to do business with you, the more likely that the prospect will be a client.

Good work so far.

Thanks
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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Luis Michael Orts

Jarod, I didn't think the form was bad at all. I would try to break it down into easier to digest pieces... like... in steps.

I'll look back at the form to see if there are any questions that could be answered more efficiently. I'll give you a little feedback.

But yes, the easier it is to do business with you, the more likely that the prospect will be a client.

Good work so far.

Wow lol even a client is wanting to lend a hand, this is amazing

. I would very much appreciate you guys help. This will help a LOT

.

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dave147

9 years ago

Originally Posted by jarod b

Wow lol even a client is wanting to lend a hand, this is amazing

. I would very much appreciate you guys help. This will help a LOT

.

I'm not surprised that a client is willing to help...it's refreshing to see a thread like this where top notch advice is given and the recipient follows through and takes all the great advice given and implements the required actions.

The client can see that the advice given is not wasted, and can see that you will do what is required.

What makes the thread great is not only the level of advice, but the fact that you are willing to listen and follow through.

Good stuff!

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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by dave147

I'm not surprised that a client is willing to help...it's refreshing to see a thread like this where top notch advice is given and the recipient follows through and takes all the great advice given and implements the required actions.

The client can see that the advice given is not wasted, and can see that you will do what is required.

What makes the thread great is not only the level of advice, but the fact that you are willing to listen and follow through.

Good stuff!

Hmm. So in other words, this kind of gives me credibility?

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dave147

9 years ago

Originally Posted by jarod b

Hmm. So in other words, this kind of gives me credibility?

Not exactly credibility, but a trust or reassurance to the people that are helping you out in this thread, and to the client, they can see that you are willing to learn, listen and implement suggestions and ideas.
They can see that their advice is not falling on deaf ears or is not met with resistance.

You have a bit to go yet before you gain credibility, but you'll get there if your enthusiasm remains and you continue with consistency, persistence and the determination you are showing.

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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by dave147

Not exactly credibility, but a trust or reassurance to the people that are helping you out in this thread, and to the client, they can see that you are willing to learn, listen and implement suggestions and ideas.
They can see that their advice is not falling on deaf ears or is not met with resistance.

You have a bit to go yet before you gain credibility, but you'll get there if your enthusiasm remains and you continue with consistency, persistence and the determination you are showing.

Thanks!! I will do my best and stick to it as long as I can. I am noticing that the biggest problems i'm having dedicating myself so far is fear and voices going on in my head. The sign up process isn't new to me in theory, but it is in practice, and it feels completely different than what I initially thought about it. But I am willing to put all my fears on the table if this is really going to work. So I am worried still, but I am trusting and hoping that I will be able to make it through. So thanks for the amazing words man!!

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DaniMc

9 years ago

Originally Posted by jarod b

I will keep the hosting and maintenance in mind. For now, I'm going to focus on HTML + CSS template designs like Dan suggested. But I plan to eventually work up to maintenance and hosting if the client asks. As for the numbers, I noticed that myself when I was putting together my services. Web design is a one-time thing and is a one-and-done type of job. But maintenance and hosting on the other hand is a repeat job, and I know that would be really great business for me in terms of revenue.

Unless they are selling service themselves, they will probably need hosting. I would think that most of the people here at WF already have the hosting thing figured out.

Once you start getting people who need hosting, what are you going to do? Here are two possible solutions - I have done both in the past.

1) Send them to Hostgator (or someone else - I'm not informed on the best hosts anymore), and have them get an account of their own. You will probably have to help them some and walk them through the set up process. This is the worst scenario, but it works when you are just getting started.
2) Sign up for your own reseller hosting, and set them up yourself. This is a much, much better solution. I am still hosting clients from several years ago. If I add up the recurring revenue, it is beautiful. Once the sites are up and done, there are rarely any problems or changes. I could contact these people and make some instant cash because the sites are old now and need to be updated. But - that isn't my gig now. If they ask me to update, I will send them to someone else.

Personally - Once you get these 5 out of the way, I think you should get ready for option 2. Things will slow down a little after this first group to free clients.

Originally Posted by jarod b

1 - How do you feel about the sign-up process? If you think it is boring, the clients probably do too.
Ha... I kind of don't know what to expect, but I am concerned cuz I don't have natural people skills. I don't really have conversations regularly like I should, so I am typically dusty on making conversation with people, but I want to improve it.

You will improve. I can help you with some things but don't worry about it. As long as you are enthusiastically trying to do what is best for the client, the conversation is where it needs to be. Just don't make it about you and your needs, always talk about them and their needs.

so I am also looking for at least 4 interactions to keep my clients unconcerned. I think I will keep it as it is for now. If clients consistently show signs of boredom then I'll reconsider this. For now I just want to see how effective my current idea is for them.

Not a bad idea, it doesn't have to take much time to keep the communication going. For me, anytime I do ANYTHING with a client's file, I shoot them a quick update. Anytime I touch it, they need to know. So, anytime you do a little design work, just shoot a quick email saying "Hello, I was just working on your menu. It is coming along nicely and I am looking forward to showing you. Thanks again for your business and let me know if you have questions."

It doesn't have to be difficult. Just a quick note will make your client feel so much better. I have had designers go days without communicating with me and I have to email them. That is a mistake and makes me anxious. Great communication doesn't take a lot of work, you just have to be thoughtful about what the client is going through.

When people don't know what is happening with their project, they feel uneasy. When they feel uneasy - it is really mistrust. When they start losing trust, they are less likely to recommend you or use you again.

From the 3 project's I've analyzed for Q&A, there seems to be a trend of entrepreneurs who will need more website design jobs in the future. One does marketing and is a new business, but the other two seem to own multiple websites already. So I would say my clients are entrepreneurs so far.

Excellent! You are putting all these details in the spreadsheet, right? With all their contact info? When business gets slow, you will go back through the list and contact each person, telling them you have some room in your schedule and asking if they need any help with any design work.

I am doing what I can to get my mind off the money! But I am looking at my thread and seeing it at the bottom already so I'm wondering how often I'll have to pay to get it bumped and if I will have the funds to keep up with it.

Focus on excellent service, not the money. You WILL have money soon enough. Don't worry about bumping the thread yet. You will be fine. We need to see how these projects come out and how happy the clients are before anything else.

Originally Posted by jarod b

Actually, I updated my thread and I took off that deal to pay after completion. Should I add it back? I still have the old version of that thread with the copy ready for paste.

No I don't think you should add it back. I believe you will do fine without it.

Originally Posted by iAmNameLess

With the prices you have, you can't justify meeting even once, let alone 3 times. You have to realize that your time is money.

Maybe I'm trying to get you too far ahead... I realize you'll have to go through the ringer a bit, and reach another level until some things start to make sense.

There are a few different ways people look at this. Harvard Business Review performed a study of the best performing companies over 40 years. They found many profound insights but the two rules that ALL of these companies followed were:

1) Always improve service. Never try to make the product cheaper - always make it better.
2) Focus on increasing revenue above all else. Saving time or cutting costs was found to be a losing proposition - increasing revenue solves all problems.

These seem simple but at their core they have a huge impact to a strategy. Since that study was released, I have advised all of my clients to follow these rules. On my wall right now are the words "Better before cheaper" and "Increase Revenue" all ideas are filtered through those lenses.

So for Jarod, this means to never back down on a level of service. Anytime something is changed to make things easier for the business, it should only be done if it ALSO makes things better for the client. It should never be one without the other.

Nathan, savidge, and others - this is where your input is invaluable. My general idea is that, since Jarod has a skill but doesn't yet know how to sell it or run a business, the best approach is for him to become a successful freelancer first. After he reaches that milestone, THEN he is in a position to learn how to become a business owner. Many freelancers earn more than $100k per year, so personally I think this is the most direct, sure-fire way for Jarod to change his life.

I just don't think he is ready for business ownership. So, here is the general plan I have laid out in my head.

1) He gets good at providing excellent service and client results.
2) He has profiles on all the freelance sites and is raising his rates as he gets better.
3) He has 3-4 clients per month paying him $800-$1200 per project.
4) He hires an assistant to help him make things easier - recent college grad. Part-time, $10 per hour to start, contract employee at first.
5) Once he gets organized, help him take things to the next level and become a real business owner rather than just a freelancer.

The end result is a high-touch, high-service design firm with lots of client interaction, doing lots of custom work on projects ranging from a minimum of $3,000 for something simple to $10k or $15k for a full project. He will have a client services specialist, a few designers/coders, and him running the show.

Do you think there is a better way for him? Right now we are only at step #1 so the overall plan is fluid, and will depend a great deal on his performance.

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savidge4

9 years ago

Oh nelly... Specifically the task he is doing right now... he wont ever be anything BUT a freelancer. I was at the peak of his game 5 - 6 years ago, it slipped off little by little fast.

To give you an idea I will share my business structure back 6 years ago. I had 3 Graphic designers and 2 coders including myself. We were plowing through $20,000 projects at a clip of 3 to 4 a month. Amonth ago... I had 1 graphic designer and 4 designers / coders. We were plowing through 10+ $2500 jobs a week on average.

In the past month.. I have pulled from that aspect completely and gone full on CRO and landed 40 clients at $3000 a month for 3 month contracts. and have the ability I think to pull and handle another 20. I still maintain 1 graphic designer, and 4 coders and will be adding a Oracle programmer in the mix here in the next month ( system building! ) .

So specifically with Jarod's position what's changed? 1 word; WordPress. more specifically in the last year or so its more the "Frame Works" that have changed the environment. As an example, I sold ONE as in a single site this year that was NOT wordpress based. and to be honest, it wasn't worth it. But that is what the client wanted. Ironically, 3 months later, converted their site to wordpress. ( at their request )

Feb 12 of 2014 I dropped marketing my Html / CSS skills and went all in with WordPress. ( if you cant beat them join them ) Don't get me wrong, those skills have served me very well. Jarod HAS that foundation.

From what I have seen in Jarods work to this point. ( his portfolio work ) he needs a better understanding of color theory. he needs to read everything he can on white space. he needs to really study minimalist concepts and ideas, and not so much work in that space but incorporate those ideas into his design. Bottom line - If It looks good it is good.

We work in a VISUAL world. our work is SEEN, and fully understanding the power of what that means carries a great amount of weight. look at Shop Clothes For Women, Men, Baby, and Kids | Free Ship on $50 | Gap ( their layout and design changes like regularly btw ) That red and blue combination is abusive at best... but look how they carry the red below the fold... its freakin design GENIUS. THEY are controlling eye movement across their page. Babies and discounts... does it get better than that for a female demographic? seriously.. awe how cute, and ooo I can save money shopping there.

Success for Jarod, on "His Own" is going to require a migration. He needs to take his design skills from 2005 to 2015, and that is wordpress. I specifically would suggest learning "Bootstrap"

Specifically how he does this, is a whole other discussion.

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

Nathan, savidge, and others - this is where your input is invaluable. My general idea is that, since Jarod has a skill but doesn't yet know how to sell it or run a business, the best approach is for him to become a successful freelancer first. After he reaches that milestone, THEN he is in a position to learn how to become a business owner. Many freelancers earn more than $100k per year, so personally I think this is the most direct, sure-fire way for Jarod to change his life.

I just don't think he is ready for business ownership. So, here is the general plan I have laid out in my head.

1) He gets good at providing excellent service and client results.
2) He has profiles on all the freelance sites and is raising his rates as he gets better.
3) He has 3-4 clients per month paying him $800-$1200 per project.
4) He hires an assistant to help him make things easier - recent college grad. Part-time, $10 per hour to start, contract employee at first.
5) Once he gets organized, help him take things to the next level and become a real business owner rather than just a freelancer.

The end result is a high-touch, high-service design firm with lots of client interaction, doing lots of custom work on projects ranging from a minimum of $3,000 for something simple to $10k or $15k for a full project. He will have a client services specialist, a few designers/coders, and him running the show.

Do you think there is a better way for him? Right now we are only at step #1 so the overall plan is fluid, and will depend a great deal on his performance.

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DaniMc

9 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

So specifically with Jarod's position what's changed? 1 word; WordPress. more specifically in the last year or so its more the "Frame Works" that have changed the environment. As an example, I sold ONE as in a single site this year that was NOT wordpress based. and to be honest, it wasn't worth it. But that is what the client wanted. Ironically, 3 months later, converted their site to wordpress. ( at their request )

Feb 12 of 2014 I dropped marketing my Html / CSS skills and went all in with WordPress. ( if you cant beat them join them ) Don't get me wrong, those skills have served me very well. Jarod HAS that foundation.

From what I have seen in Jarods work to this point. ( his portfolio work ) he needs a better understanding of color theory. he needs to read everything he can on white space. he needs to really study minimalist concepts and ideas, and not so much work in that space but incorporate those ideas into his design. Bottom line - If It looks good it is good.

We work in a VISUAL world. our work is SEEN, and fully understanding the power of what that means carries a great amount of weight. look at Shop Clothes For Women, Men, Baby, and Kids | Free Ship on $50 | Gap ( their layout and design changes like regularly btw ) That red and blue combination is abusive at best... but look how they carry the red below the fold... its freakin design GENIUS. THEY are controlling eye movement across their page. Babies and discounts... does it get better than that for a female demographic? seriously.. awe how cute, and ooo I can save money shopping there.

Success for Jarod, on "His Own" is going to require a migration. He needs to take his design skills from 2005 to 2015, and that is wordpress. I specifically would suggest learning "Bootstrap"

Specifically how he does this, is a whole other discussion.

Excellent feedback! I hope Jarod is taking notes.

I know this thread will be long gone before he makes any of these transitions and this process will take him years (if he sticks with it).

My general premise is taking him from zero to a business owner over the next few years. Obviously, I am wrapped up in my own projects - he's going to have to fly on his own.

If he stays a freelancer, as long as he keeps evolving with the times, he can still make good money even if the next stage never occurs. Of course, profits are better than wages, and owning a business is much better than being a freelancer - if one can make the leap.

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Underground

9 years ago

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savidge4

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Underground

So you were bringing in $100,000 a month in graphic design work just as recently as the last two months and then added another $120,000 a month, or $360,000 over three months as easy as that?

While also building 200 amazon sites?

Prolific to say the least.

To clarify, not that it will make it any better. I sold the $100,000 a month web design aspect of my business for 7 figures to a major telcom. I rolled in days right into CRO that is as of right now ( Dec 31 ) billing $120,000 in the first month and should bill at $160,000 in the second month. I have completed the development of 200 personal Amazon affiliate sites. IF $1000 a month per site were the goal, on an average basis that is running at 40% right now. - I understand that is the month of December which may be better in some cases, but again across the 200, I am in at 40%.

In addition to the 200 sites I have been working with my team on an additional 160 sites, that are within this new found network, but built do develop asset growth for those that work for me. ( part of the Christmas Bonus )

Add onto this my partnership development of what is now a 2 language directory site for Mexico, that at this point is in the 50% compete phase and we already have 300ish prelaunch listing commitments. Since you are keeping track... I will be going to Mexico City for a few days late next week and opening our first office of a planned 4 in total in Mexico to support this endeavor.

Above and Beyond THAT...I am also in partnership with of all things an MLM venture that has the known potential of 7 digits per year. Hit this great opportunity ( I hate that word ) on the basic ground level.

Bottom line.. rest is for the weary. Keep in mind I am not doing this alone, I do have a team of 4 programmer / designers. I have a graphic artist. I have 2 other in office positions that oversee my printing and Vinyl business. I also have 4 teams that are out selling and installing Consumer based Internet Satellite systems. I have an above supportive wife and kids in my life as well.

I am at a point of balance in my life. I LOVE what I do for a living... sure to many its a JOB, but I like it... I just cant let money roll in and sit on some beach somewhere... its not me its not what I have done, its not what I am going to do tomorrow. Im in it to win it, what ever IT is.

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qu4rk

9 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

In the past month.. I have pulled from that aspect completely and gone full on CRO and landed 40 clients at $3000 a month for 3 month contracts. and have the ability I think to pull and handle another 20.

Do you mind sharing with us, how you market CRO? Adwords, FB PPC, Direct Mail, Cold Call, ski mask (Haha)?

How do you find people to help with CRO?

Thanks

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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

Oh nelly... Specifically the task he is doing right now... he wont ever be anything BUT a freelancer. I was at the peak of his game 5 - 6 years ago, it slipped off little by little fast.

To give you an idea I will share my business structure back 6 years ago. I had 3 Graphic designers and 2 coders including myself. We were plowing through $20,000 projects at a clip of 3 to 4 a month. Amonth ago... I had 1 graphic designer and 4 designers / coders. We were plowing through 10+ $2500 jobs a week on average.

In the past month.. I have pulled from that aspect completely and gone full on CRO and landed 40 clients at $3000 a month for 3 month contracts. and have the ability I think to pull and handle another 20. I still maintain 1 graphic designer, and 4 coders and will be adding a Oracle programmer in the mix here in the next month ( system building! ) .

So specifically with Jarod's position what's changed? 1 word; WordPress. more specifically in the last year or so its more the "Frame Works" that have changed the environment. As an example, I sold ONE as in a single site this year that was NOT wordpress based. and to be honest, it wasn't worth it. But that is what the client wanted. Ironically, 3 months later, converted their site to wordpress. ( at their request )

Feb 12 of 2014 I dropped marketing my Html / CSS skills and went all in with WordPress. ( if you cant beat them join them ) Don't get me wrong, those skills have served me very well. Jarod HAS that foundation.

From what I have seen in Jarods work to this point. ( his portfolio work ) he needs a better understanding of color theory. he needs to read everything he can on white space. he needs to really study minimalist concepts and ideas, and not so much work in that space but incorporate those ideas into his design. Bottom line - If It looks good it is good.

We work in a VISUAL world. our work is SEEN, and fully understanding the power of what that means carries a great amount of weight. look at Shop Clothes For Women, Men, Baby, and Kids | Free Ship on $50 | Gap ( their layout and design changes like regularly btw ) That red and blue combination is abusive at best... but look how they carry the red below the fold... its freakin design GENIUS. THEY are controlling eye movement across their page. Babies and discounts... does it get better than that for a female demographic? seriously.. awe how cute, and ooo I can save money shopping there.

Success for Jarod, on "His Own" is going to require a migration. He needs to take his design skills from 2005 to 2015, and that is wordpress. I specifically would suggest learning "Bootstrap"

Specifically how he does this, is a whole other discussion.

I understand I need to improve my overall design skill more, but are you saying I need to learn Wordpress development as well?

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savidge4 9 years ago

Originally Posted by jarod b

I understand I need to improve my overall design skill more, but are you saying I need to learn Wordpress development as well?

How bout this, leave it to the back of your mind for now... and lets get those first paying customers in the door with what you are doing now... lets see how it all falls in to place. That will give you an indication of direction from there.
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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

Unless they are selling service themselves, they will probably need hosting. I would think that most of the people here at WF already have the hosting thing figured out.

Once you start getting people who need hosting, what are you going to do? Here are two possible solutions - I have done both in the past.

1) Send them to Hostgator (or someone else - I'm not informed on the best hosts anymore), and have them get an account of their own. You will probably have to help them some and walk them through the set up process. This is the worst scenario, but it works when you are just getting started.
2) Sign up for your own reseller hosting, and set them up yourself. This is a much, much better solution. I am still hosting clients from several years ago. If I add up the recurring revenue, it is beautiful. Once the sites are up and done, there are rarely any problems or changes. I could contact these people and make some instant cash because the sites are old now and need to be updated. But - that isn't my gig now. If they ask me to update, I will send them to someone else.

Personally - Once you get these 5 out of the way, I think you should get ready for option 2. Things will slow down a little after this first group to free clients.

Good idea. I will remember this.

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

Not a bad idea, it doesn't have to take much time to keep the communication going. For me, anytime I do ANYTHING with a client's file, I shoot them a quick update. Anytime I touch it, they need to know. So, anytime you do a little design work, just shoot a quick email saying "Hello, I was just working on your menu. It is coming along nicely and I am looking forward to showing you. Thanks again for your business and let me know if you have questions."

It doesn't have to be difficult. Just a quick note will make your client feel so much better. I have had designers go days without communicating with me and I have to email them. That is a mistake and makes me anxious. Great communication doesn't take a lot of work, you just have to be thoughtful about what the client is going through.

When people don't know what is happening with their project, they feel uneasy. When they feel uneasy - it is really mistrust. When they start losing trust, they are less likely to recommend you or use you again.

Oooo that's a really good one, especially since communication with clients can go on for weeks and months. I will keep this in mind!

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

Excellent! You are putting all these details in the spreadsheet, right? With all their contact info? When business gets slow, you will go back through the list and contact each person, telling them you have some room in your schedule and asking if they need any help with any design work.

Yes, but seriously, it's that simple? lol

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

Focus on excellent service, not the money. You WILL have money soon enough. Don't worry about bumping the thread yet. You will be fine. We need to see how these projects come out and how happy the clients are before anything else.

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

There are a few different ways people look at this. Harvard Business Review performed a study of the best performing companies over 40 years. They found many profound insights but the two rules that ALL of these companies followed were:

1) Always improve service. Never try to make the product cheaper - always make it better.
2) Focus on increasing revenue above all else. Saving time or cutting costs was found to be a losing proposition - increasing revenue solves all problems.

These seem simple but at their core they have a huge impact to a strategy. Since that study was released, I have advised all of my clients to follow these rules. On my wall right now are the words "Better before cheaper" and "Increase Revenue" all ideas are filtered through those lenses.

So for Jarod, this means to never back down on a level of service. Anytime something is changed to make things easier for the business, it should only be done if it ALSO makes things better for the client. It should never be one without the other.

Nathan, savidge, and others - this is where your input is invaluable. My general idea is that, since Jarod has a skill but doesn't yet know how to sell it or run a business, the best approach is for him to become a successful freelancer first. After he reaches that milestone, THEN he is in a position to learn how to become a business owner. Many freelancers earn more than $100k per year, so personally I think this is the most direct, sure-fire way for Jarod to change his life.

I just don't think he is ready for business ownership. So, here is the general plan I have laid out in my head.

1) He gets good at providing excellent service and client results.
2) He has profiles on all the freelance sites and is raising his rates as he gets better.
3) He has 3-4 clients per month paying him $800-$1200 per project.
4) He hires an assistant to help him make things easier - recent college grad. Part-time, $10 per hour to start, contract employee at first.
5) Once he gets organized, help him take things to the next level and become a real business owner rather than just a freelancer.

The end result is a high-touch, high-service design firm with lots of client interaction, doing lots of custom work on projects ranging from a minimum of $3,000 for something simple to $10k or $15k for a full project. He will have a client services specialist, a few designers/coders, and him running the show.

Do you think there is a better way for him? Right now we are only at step #1 so the overall plan is fluid, and will depend a great deal on his performance.

Bruh........ lmao this is exactly what I've always wanted to do with my career man. I've told you before, you seem to know me. But even if you don't think so, we are clearly on the same page and i LOVE IT. Right from the start of my career I always wanted to freelance first and then own an agency later on. I swear. This is EXACTLY how I planned it from the start, and it still is my plan!

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jarod b

9 years ago

UPDATE:
So I had 2 scheduled meetings today, and none of the clients showed up. So now I'm rescheduling with them and am wondering if there was anything on my end that went wrong. Do you guys think it's my sign up process? Or is it the sales page I put together?

And what if they saw this thread and it damaged my credibility with them?

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DaniMc

9 years ago

Originally Posted by jarod b

UPDATE:
So I had 2 scheduled meetings today, and none of the clients showed up. So now I'm rescheduling with them and am wondering if there was anything on my end that went wrong. Do you guys think it's my sign up process? Or is it the sales page I put together?

And what if they saw this thread and it damaged my credibility with them?

Don't worry about the credibility issue. No self-doubt! This is about them, not you. Some people don't keep appointments. Don't reflect their lack of professionalism on your self-esteem.

This is just a symptom of the free service. In the future, once you get payment, they will be a little more committed but you will still have no-shows. Especially with WF clients.

As you go forward, you will learn that it is often more difficult to give something away than it is to sell. After that, you will learn that charging very high prices is even easier than charging low prices. But - this is a process you will have to work through.

Once you actually get these 5 free projects completed and delivered, you will be in a good position to start selling. Giving it away free still requires selling.

I would contact them via any means you have available and attempt to reschedule.

Tell them you need to meet with them ASAP or you will give their free slot to someone else. Say it with all sincerity to help them - not as a threat. Just, if someone else asks for it, you will give it to them. "I can't hold this free design slot open for you, there are others who want it" - it's about fairness.

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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

Don't worry about the credibility issue. No self-doubt! This is about them, not you. Some people don't keep appointments. Don't reflect their lack of professionalism on your self-esteem.

This is just a symptom of the free service. In the future, once you get payment, they will be a little more committed but you will still have no-shows. Especially with WF clients.

As you go forward, you will learn that it is often more difficult to give something away than it is to sell. After that, you will learn that charging very high prices is even easier than charging low prices. But - this is a process you will have to work through.

Once you actually get these 5 free projects completed and delivered, you will be in a good position to start selling. Giving it away free still requires selling.

I would contact them via any means you have available and attempt to reschedule.

Tell them you need to meet with them ASAP or you will give their free slot to someone else. Say it with all sincerity to help them - not as a threat. Just, if someone else asks for it, you will give it to them. "I can't hold this free design slot open for you, there are others who want it" - it's about fairness.

I want to say that, but that seems too aggressive and makes me nervous about confrontation. I don't know how the client is gonna react and I can't imagine it being understood a positive way lol.

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Underground

9 years ago

Originally Posted by jarod b

I want to say that, but that seems too aggressive and makes me nervous about confrontation. I don't know how the client is gonna react and I can't imagine it being understood a positive way lol.

Don't worry about it. A professional is expected to be firm about times and expect that. If anyone reacts incessantly badly, cut them off a client and move on.

Dan will not put you wrong. The path ain't easy and breaking through fear and overcoming those barriers is par for the course.

One of the best things you'll learn as you continue and get more determined, resilient and experience is the confidence you need to be firm but professional yet not aggressive with people. You'll value yourself. The good clients will respect this and get their act together.

Do take people missing appointments personally. I missed our because, apart from having a lot going on and disrupted over the holidays, with the time difference and being asleep as you replied to me so I got your reply confirming the time only after the scheduled time had past and it just didn't dawn on me that would happen because the time frame difference threw me.

Me, I'm a reasonable person and will take responsibility. If you would have said what Dan advised, it might have stung for a second but then I'd have realized that yes, it was my fault, no-one likes to have appointments missed, that you are busy, and that you are doing the page for free and bucked my ideas up.

Of course you'll get lot of arseholes who will get excessively argumentative about it in the course of your career, as these people won't take responsibility, and they will be like that with everyone. So don't take it personal, and learn where to draw the line with these people and realize you are wasting your time and drop them if needed.

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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Underground

Don't worry about it. A professional is expected to be firm about times and expect that. If anyone reacts incessantly badly, cut them off a client and move on.

Dan will not put you wrong. The path ain't easy and breaking through fear and overcoming those barriers is par for the course.

One of the best things you'll learn as you continue and get more determined, resilient and experience is the confidence you need to be firm but professional yet not aggressive with people. You'll value yourself. The good clients will respect this and get their act together.

Do take people missing appointments personally. I missed our because, apart from having a lot going on and disrupted over the holidays, with the time difference and being asleep as you replied to me so I got your reply confirming the time only after the scheduled time had past and it just didn't dawn on me that would happen because the time frame difference threw me.

Me, I'm a reasonable person and will take responsibility. If you would have said what Dan advised, it might have stung for a second but then I'd have realized that yes, it was my fault, no-one likes to have appointments missed, that you are busy, and that you are doing the page for free and bucked my ideas up.

Of course you'll get lot of arseholes who will get excessively argumentative about it in the course of your career, as these people won't take responsibility, and they will be like that with everyone. So don't take it personal, and learn where to draw the line with these people and realize you are wasting your time and drop them if needed.

I will remember that! And it's okay. This signup process is new to me, so I am not so much bothered, but I still have enough confidence left to move on

. And you're one of the clients I'm going to meet with soon, but it's great to receive advice from a client. I am always in need of it LOL. Thanks for the support

.

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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

Don't worry about the credibility issue. No self-doubt! This is about them, not you. Some people don't keep appointments. Don't reflect their lack of professionalism on your self-esteem.

This is just a symptom of the free service. In the future, once you get payment, they will be a little more committed but you will still have no-shows. Especially with WF clients.

As you go forward, you will learn that it is often more difficult to give something away than it is to sell. After that, you will learn that charging very high prices is even easier than charging low prices. But - this is a process you will have to work through.

Once you actually get these 5 free projects completed and delivered, you will be in a good position to start selling. Giving it away free still requires selling.

I would contact them via any means you have available and attempt to reschedule.

Tell them you need to meet with them ASAP or you will give their free slot to someone else. Say it with all sincerity to help them - not as a threat. Just, if someone else asks for it, you will give it to them. "I can't hold this free design slot open for you, there are others who want it" - it's about fairness.

Okay sure. I've tried this with 2 people so far. I'll let you know what their reactions are tomorrow or when I get feedback from them. And now that you mention, this is selling in a weird way. People are trusting me with their business a little, and now I just need to prove my worth to them. But I am wondering if I will get their first concept wrong because I have a bit of history with not following instructions well. I don't want to mess these opportunities up

.

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socialentry

Banned 9 years ago

Eh, I thought I was the only one who did rituals before I read Dan's post

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jarod b

9 years ago

Hey Guys. Sorry for the 2 days disappearance. I just wanted to update everyone that I've been busy with life situations, and now I can focus again.

As for my business, I wrote some notes to myself while I had the time.

First. I'm trying to apply iAmNameless's advice on shortening my signup process. So if anyone can help me out with this, here is what I have so far:

My original process was this:

Send Project Worksheet
Analyze Project
Setup Appointment
Discovery 1: Project & Website Design
Discovery 2: Scope Q&A and Deposit
Start Project

I needed to send off my project worksheet, analyze and evaluate it, and setup and attend multiple appointments to learn more about their project before I could start. But now I've cut it down by a lot, and am still figuring out how I can be efficient with a better process:

Send Questionnaire
Analyze & Evaluate Questionnaire
Start Project

The questionnaire I plan on sending will exclude the project worksheet and just be a brief design questionnaire for designing and coding whatever website style the client requests. But there is a drawing concern I have with this. One thing I want to do is evaluate if they have at least a working strategy behind using the website. Because if they don't, then that means I'll look bad 3-6 months later when they realize that their website is not getting them the results they expected. And I know from talking to people about websites and then looking at the websites in my local areas -- most of the website owners are using their websites as a business cards/brochures and don't even know how to track and measure their website's performance. That was a longgg sentence just now lol, but that's my biggest concern about this new process I'm working on.

I don't just want to give them a design questionnaire, then make their website for them and be done with it. I want to invest in my clients a little to prolong our business relationship if I can. Because if they are doing good, then I will be doing good in the future. And the more clients I can get like that will mean a better business for me.

And this is just the first note.

Second. I responded to the clients. so I'm waiting on their response. I'll let you guys know how that is going tomorrow or whenever they all respond. P.S. I also followed up with people who haven't sent me a worksheet yet as well. I'll let you guys know more about this also.

Third. I am noticing that nobody has posted to my thread and now I'm worried what I'll need to do if my current clients don't sign up soon. I am looking to get started on their projects as soon as I can, but I started a week ago and haven't started a project yet.I hope this doesn't end sourly >_<.

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savidge4

9 years ago

Originally Posted by jarod b

One thing I want to do is evaluate if they have at least a working strategy behind using the website. Because if they don't, then that means I'll look bad 3-6 months later when they realize that their website is not getting them the results they expected.

I hate to be that guy... but how many successful websites have you built, do you have? YOU are a graphic designer, that is specializing in HTML & CSS UI UX. THATS IT... nothing more nothing less. As much as I am a HUGE believer in structure, and its abilities, I am going to keep my mouth shut right now and tell you that it is the Clients CONTENT that will make or break the sites ability to succeed. YOU have no part in that process correct?

Originally Posted by jarod b

And I know from talking to people about websites and then looking at the websites in my local areas -- most of the website owners are using their websites as a business cards/brochures and don't even know how to track and measure their website's performance. That was a longgg sentence just now lol, but that's my biggest concern about this new process I'm working on.

And here in lies the pain of low end sites. If you were to ask those folks if they pay for their own hosting or have a plan with their page designer, they more than likely tell you hosting was to expensive with the designer guy, so they self host. What happens when you self host? you don't get reports... You don't get needed updates... you don't have someone in your corner as you are suggesting in this very post... Someone that has a VESTED interest in the success of the site.

For right now, you have dropped off the hosting packages ( and I believe that to be a good decision for now ) But with the above statement you can get in idea of the importance of that package and you and your clients relationship.

As it stands right now... you are in a build it and next scenario. You can aspire to having a great set of communications with your current clients, and hope they return, but I think that is as far as the current model we collectively have you worked into. FOR RIGHT NOW.. this is NOT a bad thing. Look at the growth in the process you have made already. Look at the changes in the opening process' you have made. Relish in the fact that YOU stopped talking, and took ACTION!

Dan has already said it.. Ill say it again.. You are LEGEND! ( sorry been speaking to to many people in the UK recently! hahaha )

Originally Posted by jarod b

I don't just want to give them a design questionnaire, then make their website for them and be done with it. I want to invest in my clients a little to prolong our business relationship if I can. Because if they are doing good, then I will be doing good in the future. And the more clients I can get like that will mean a better business for me.

This statement is VERY true... Just not for now... You are offering your services for FREE for a number of reasons. #1 the clients you have ( should be ) USING you and your abilities. #2 you are USING them to gain the unparalleled knowledge of the PROCESS, Working out the kinks. And I am sure we were all HOPING that you would be gaining the belief in yourself and your abilities.

I PERSONALLY want you to understand YOU have done nothing wrong here.. only right. There is NOT a sour end to this... there cant be. You stood up and took action. That, in itself is GAME ON.

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DaniMc

9 years ago

Originally Posted by jarod b

Hey Guys. Sorry for the 2 days disappearance. I just wanted to update everyone that I've been busy with life situations, and now I can focus again.

As for my business, I wrote some notes to myself while I had the time.

First. I'm trying to apply iAmNameless's advice on shortening my signup process. So if anyone can help me out with this, here is what I have so far:

My original process was this:

Send Project Worksheet
Analyze Project
Setup Appointment
Discovery 1: Project & Website Design
Discovery 2: Scope Q&A and Deposit
Start Project

I needed to send off my project worksheet, analyze and evaluate it, and setup and attend multiple appointments to learn more about their project before I could start. But now I've cut it down by a lot, and am still figuring out how I can be efficient with a better process:

Send Questionnaire
Analyze & Evaluate Questionnaire
Start Project

The questionnaire I plan on sending will exclude the project worksheet and just be a brief design questionnaire for designing and coding whatever website style the client requests.

This is great if two things are true - 1) It is good for you and most importantly 2) it is good for the client. As you go forward, you will always be tweaking your processes as you find problems with them.

One trap to avoid is the endless tweaking that can go on. I have had coaching clients in the past who were always tinkering in their business. These were real world, multi-million dollar businesses. This is rooted in some deep psychological stuff here - the reason for the tinkering is almost never to fix a problem or make things better.

I don't want to go off the deep end with this subject, and I summarize the thought in my signature. Most people are always "fiddling" with things because they are avoiding doing other things they should be doing.

We all get caught up in this. It has to do with our fear tolerance and financial thermostat.

In the case of the fairly wealthy business owners I referenced above - they usually hit a certain point where their subconscious starts putting on the brakes. Have you ever driven a car with the parking brake on? It's a bit like that. Once people (including me) hit a certain comfort zone limit - we start avoiding doing things that will push us out of that zone.

What's worse - we don't just get lazy and stop coming to work - we stay very busy doing other things and fool ourselves into thinking we are being productive.

I said all of that to make a simple rule perfectly clear - Only change something in response to a problem.

In your example above, you identified a problem with your process, so you created a new process. Great! Now stop fiddling with it. If you are using it later, and something needs fixing, focus on the actual problem, make an adjustment, and then move on.

This is true with sales, marketing, finance, and everything else in a business. You make progress when you are responding to a problem. If there isn't a problem you are solving, then you are just wasting time and avoiding the REAL problems that will move your business forward.

Some problems in a business will always exist - like revenue being too low. This is a problem that should never be considered solved and is the most important problem in any business.

Other problems, like inefficient processes, can be fixed, and should be fixed as quickly as possible, and then only addressed again if there is an actual problem that is harming revenue.

Trust me - this idea will be very useful to you this year as you continue to push the limits of your comfort zone. It will seem like there is an endless number of things that need to be fixed. Resist the temptation to tweak things unless you can identify an actual problem that is interfering with revenue. Then, simply write down the problem in one or two sentences. If you can't define a problem in one or two sentences, you can't start fixing it yet.

But there is a drawing concern I have with this. One thing I want to do is evaluate if they have at least a working strategy behind using the website. Because if they don't, then that means I'll look bad 3-6 months later when they realize that their website is not getting them the results they expected. And I know from talking to people about websites and then looking at the websites in my local areas -- most of the website owners are using their websites as a business cards/brochures and don't even know how to track and measure their website's performance. That was a longgg sentence just now lol, but that's my biggest concern about this new process I'm working on.

I want you to notice something here - you said "most website owners" - that is a key and you need to develop a sixth sense about these things. You are missing the grand point - it is there in your paragraph but you don't know it!

You are in the business of selling people what THEY want - not what YOU want to give them.

If everyone wants red sneakers but you think white sneakers are better, you'd better be ready to sell red or the customers will not want what you are offering.

Let's keep this very, very simple - don't try to tell people what they should want. Instead - find out what they DO want, and give it to them exceedingly well.

Give people what they want, and be excellent at it. Later, down the road, you can ADD more too it, but don't get ahead of yourself just yet.

I don't just want to give them a design questionnaire, then make their website for them and be done with it. I want to invest in my clients a little to prolong our business relationship if I can. Because if they are doing good, then I will be doing good in the future. And the more clients I can get like that will mean a better business for me.

Great thinking and an awesome long-term goal. But, educating the market takes a lot more business acumen than you think right now. Stay the course!

Third. I am noticing that nobody has posted to my thread and now I'm worried what I'll need to do if my current clients don't sign up soon. I am looking to get started on their projects as soon as I can, but I started a week ago and haven't started a project yet.I hope this doesn't end sourly >_<.

No negativity allowed! When you get doubts and negative self-talk you need to react and actively fight them. There is no "hope" in business. This is a math equation. Deliver value, do a great job, and get better at selling - and you can't lose.

And "it's been a whole week" - this process is going to take a lot longer than that. Forget about easy money or quick success. This is a process. It takes time. In fact, it will take the rest of your life! You've been here several years, and accomplished little. You are probably going to be here several years from now too - the time will pass anyway - and you will accomplish much.

Originally Posted by jarod b

Okay sure. I've tried this with 2 people so far. I'll let you know what their reactions are tomorrow or when I get feedback from them. And now that you mention, this is selling in a weird way. People are trusting me with their business a little, and now I just need to prove my worth to them. But I am wondering if I will get their first concept wrong because I have a bit of history with not following instructions well. I don't want to mess these opportunities up

.

No negativity! Do you absolute best. If that isn't good enough, learn to do it better.

Man has gone to the moon, over 50 years ago now, with less technology than the computer you are typing on.

You can do this.

Originally Posted by jarod b

I am noticing that the biggest problems i'm having dedicating myself so far is fear and voices going on in my head. The sign up process isn't new to me in theory, but it is in practice, and it feels completely different than what I initially thought about it. But I am willing to put all my fears on the table if this is really going to work. So I am worried still, but I am trusting and hoping that I will be able to make it through. So thanks for the amazing words man!!

Fear is like the big bad wolf. You must develop the habit of running at fear full steam ahead. If you are afraid - you are doing the right things!

The only time you should be REALLY scared for your future, is if you haven't felt fear in a long time. If you haven't failed. If you haven't been working outside of your comfort zone - at that point red lights and sirens should be flashing. Otherwise, being nervous or worried or scared really means you are growing.

"He who does the thing has the power; he who does not the thing has not the power." (R.W. Emerson, 1871)

Originally Posted by savidge4

As it stands right now... you are in a build it and next scenario. You can aspire to having a great set of communications with your current clients, and hope they return, but I think that is as far as the current model we collectively have you worked into. FOR RIGHT NOW.. this is NOT a bad thing. Look at the growth in the process you have made already. Look at the changes in the opening process' you have made. Relish in the fact that YOU stopped talking, and took ACTION!

Dan has already said it.. Ill say it again.. You are LEGEND! ( sorry been speaking to to many people in the UK recently! hahaha )

This statement is VERY true... Just not for now... You are offering your services for FREE for a number of reasons. #1 the clients you have ( should be ) USING you and your abilities. #2 you are USING them to gain the unparalleled knowledge of the PROCESS, Working out the kinks. And I am sure we were all HOPING that you would be gaining the belief in yourself and your abilities.

I PERSONALLY want you to understand YOU have done nothing wrong here.. only right. There is NOT a sour end to this... there cant be. You stood up and took action. That, in itself is GAME ON.

Yes Jarod! This is really a turning point in your life. If you take the approach you have shown here, and use it in everything in your life, you can have all the success you want.

Learning is completely different from doing. And you can learn a million things, but if you never do them, you have really learned nothing. Over the past several years, you learned a lot of things.

When this thread started, you probably thought the on-boarding process for your clients would be super-simple. You probably thought you would be able to do it in your sleep, and do it like a world-class pro. Now you see that knowing ABOUT something, and knowing how to DO something, are totally different things.

People learn a million new things and without action it means nothing. That is why I wanted you to FOCUS. Focus on ONE thing, and do it. Find ONE problem, then start fixing it. Learn ONE new thing, and implement it.

Don't get discouraged. The journey of 1,000 miles begins with one step. Right now, you have taken maybe two steps towards where you will be a few years from now.

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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

This is great if two things are true - 1) It is good for you and most importantly 2) it is good for the client. As you go forward, you will always be tweaking your processes as you find problems with them.

One trap to avoid is the endless tweaking that can go on. I have had coaching clients in the past who were always tinkering in their business. These were real world, multi-million dollar businesses. This is rooted in some deep psychological stuff here - the reason for the tinkering is almost never to fix a problem or make things better.

I don't want to go off the deep end with this subject, and I summarize the thought in my signature. Most people are always "fiddling" with things because they are avoiding doing other things they should be doing.

We all get caught up in this. It has to do with our fear tolerance and financial thermostat.

In the case of the fairly wealthy business owners I referenced above - they usually hit a certain point where their subconscious starts putting on the brakes. Have you ever driven a car with the parking brake on? It's a bit like that. Once people (including me) hit a certain comfort zone limit - we start avoiding doing things that will push us out of that zone.

What's worse - we don't just get lazy and stop coming to work - we stay very busy doing other things and fool ourselves into thinking we are being productive.

I said all of that to make a simple rule perfectly clear - Only change something in response to a problem.

In your example above, you identified a problem with your process, so you created a new process. Great! Now stop fiddling with it. If you are using it later, and something needs fixing, focus on the actual problem, make an adjustment, and then move on.

This is true with sales, marketing, finance, and everything else in a business. You make progress when you are responding to a problem. If there isn't a problem you are solving, then you are just wasting time and avoiding the REAL problems that will move your business forward.

Some problems in a business will always exist - like revenue being too low. This is a problem that should never be considered solved and is the most important problem in any business.

Other problems, like inefficient processes, can be fixed, and should be fixed as quickly as possible, and then only addressed again if there is an actual problem that is harming revenue.

Trust me - this idea will be very useful to you this year as you continue to push the limits of your comfort zone. It will seem like there is an endless number of things that need to be fixed. Resist the temptation to tweak things unless you can identify an actual problem that is interfering with revenue. Then, simply write down the problem in one or two sentences. If you can't define a problem in one or two sentences, you can't start fixing it yet.

Believe it or not, I've been thinking about this approach to that problem for a long time now. And until reading it from you, I just always felt vague about the concept. But you confirmed it and now I know I was definitely onto something. The what if's were never problems at all. The real problems were the ones that popped up in the actual situation, and it was that moment I knew my real weaknesses. Like on the phone meeting. I felt pretty comfortable calling and introducing myself, but I quickly got nervous when I realized my questionnaire wasn't the best. So now I need to work on that and test it out again, and part of this is improving my process.

Great idea. And actually I've always have a problem with that and I kind of figured out that answer a long time of ago, but you confirmed it. "What if's" aren't problems at all. It's the problems that arise in the actual situation that are the real problems. And I think so because it's how I can kind of track my performance and identify what my immediate weaknesses are.

P.S. I just remembered. With the new process I have in place, do you think it will be safe if I just send my clients my design brief and drop all of the meetings altogether and og with the new process? I don't want them to think I don't know what I'm doing and feel uncomfortable with my delivery.

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

I want you to notice something here - you said "most website owners" - that is a key and you need to develop a sixth sense about these things. You are missing the grand point - it is there in your paragraph but you don't know it!

You are in the business of selling people what THEY want - not what YOU want to give them.

If everyone wants red sneakers but you think white sneakers are better, you'd better be ready to sell red or the customers will not want what you are offering.

Let's keep this very, very simple - don't try to tell people what they should want. Instead - find out what they DO want, and give it to them exceedingly well.

Give people what they want, and be excellent at it. Later, down the road, you can ADD more too it, but don't get ahead of yourself just yet.

You know what, now that I think about it, I kind of made note of that earlier while writing to savidge earlier. And I noticed I am also doing the same thing with my project worksheet. I think one thing I'll need to focus purely on the most from now on is giving the client exactly what they want and not focusing on what might happen with them in the future (ex: website not effectively designed). But as I think about it, that's pretty much what my new process is about. Giving them a design form, and then making a website design based off of that feedback alone.

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

Great thinking and an awesome long-term goal. But, educating the market takes a lot more business acumen than you think right now. Stay the course!

Hmm. Do you think I should worry about that when it become an actual problem for the client then?

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

No negativity allowed! When you get doubts and negative self-talk you need to react and actively fight them. There is no "hope" in business. This is a math equation. Deliver value, do a great job, and get better at selling - and you can't lose.

And "it's been a whole week" - this process is going to take a lot longer than that. Forget about easy money or quick success. This is a process. It takes time. In fact, it will take the rest of your life! You've been here several years, and accomplished little. You are probably going to be here several years from now too - the time will pass anyway - and you will accomplish much.

I'm glad you said this. I read a thread by Jason Kanigan this morning and he was talking about linear results vs exponential results. It was basically about patience saying that most people throw in the towel when results take longer than usual. And I am starting to realize it myself that exponential results is a type of patience that business growth requires. But that's also a problem for me. I am so use to immediate results so it honestly gets demotivating not seeing any type of immediate progress that shows I'm moving forward. It's like waiting for FedEx to drop off a box at your house without knowing the delivery date. You constantly check outside to see if a box is in front of your house, but after 3 days you're losing your mind because you feel like it's taking forever. And that's how I feel about my business situation so far. So I have a question about this. How do you deal with results that take a good while before it can show itself? Or is this a ongoing problem you have to already know how to deal with?

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

No negativity! Do you absolute best. If that isn't good enough, learn to do it better.

Man has gone to the moon, over 50 years ago now, with less technology than the computer you are typing on.

You can do this.

Lol I'll admit. That was a nice comment you slid in there with the moon analogy XD.

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

Fear is like the big bad wolf. You must develop the habit of running at fear full steam ahead. If you are afraid - you are doing the right things!

The only time you should be REALLY scared for your future, is if you haven't felt fear in a long time. If you haven't failed. If you haven't been working outside of your comfort zone - at that point red lights and sirens should be flashing. Otherwise, being nervous or worried or scared really means you are growing.

"He who does the thing has the power; he who does not the thing has not the power." (R.W. Emerson, 1871)

So you're saying that if I haven't taken action, it's natural that I'll feel powerless/hopeless? But the only way to empower myself is with action?

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

Yes Jarod! This is really a turning point in your life. If you take the approach you have shown here, and use it in everything in your life, you can have all the success you want.

Learning is completely different from doing. And you can learn a million things, but if you never do them, you have really learned nothing. Over the past several years, you learned a lot of things.

When this thread started, you probably thought the on-boarding process for your clients would be super-simple. You probably thought you would be able to do it in your sleep, and do it like a world-class pro. Now you see that knowing ABOUT something, and knowing how to DO something, are totally different things.

People learn a million new things and without action it means nothing. That is why I wanted you to FOCUS. Focus on ONE thing, and do it. Find ONE problem, then start fixing it. Learn ONE new thing, and implement it.

Don't get discouraged. The journey of 1,000 miles begins with one step. Right now, you have taken maybe two steps towards where you will be a few years from now.

I am taking steps, but it's scary telling you all my fears. iAmNameless is the first one to come after me so far lol. I hope it doesn't get worst!

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iAmNameLess

9 years ago

Originally Posted by jarod b

I am taking steps, but it's scary telling you all my fears. iAmNameless is the first one to come after me so far lol. I hope it doesn't get worst!

That's because you're wasting everybody's time here, besides the people browsing and learning from the feedback given in this thread.

I was hoping to see some kind of spark from you in your response. It just seems you're not really committed.

I'm pretty confident I'd be able to have you getting a sale within a week, instead of you struggling to give 5 free sites away. The reason I won't do that though, is because you come across as someone that's not serious and just going to punk out.

If you aren't willing to take yourself serious enough, then don't expect me to.

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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by iAmNameLess

That's because you're wasting everybody's time here, besides the people browsing and learning from the feedback given in this thread.

I was hoping to see some kind of spark from you in your response. It just seems you're not really committed.

I'm pretty confident I'd be able to have you getting a sale within a week, instead of you struggling to give 5 free sites away. The reason I won't do that though, is because you come across as someone that's not serious and just going to punk out.

If you aren't willing to take yourself serious enough, then don't expect me to.

Okay I agree I haven't been committed, but I've been determined to fix my problems at a time. And I can understand not being seen as serious. I am fairly new to this thing called professionalism, and I don't deal with clients at my intern. So I can understand if I have those kind of flaws. It's expected, but but you make it seems like I"m not trying when I just said earlier this won't happen anymore and to another client I didn't know I lost track of them. Can't you see any type of interest in solving these problem??? I just responded to a client asking if we can talk about this. I don't know how things are going to work out all of sudden, but I am focused on seeing his satisfaction to the end if he agrees to continue dealing with me

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Underground

9 years ago

Originally Posted by jarod b

Okay I agree I haven't been committed, but I've been determined to fix my problems at a time. And I can understand not being seen as serious. I am fairly new to this thing called professionalism, and I don't deal with clients at my intern. So I can understand if I have those kind of flaws. It's expected, but but you make it seems like I"m not trying when I just said earlier this won't happen anymore and to another client I didn't know I lost track of them. Can't you see any type of interest in solving these problem??? I just responded to a client asking if we can talk about this. I don't know how things are going to work out all of sudden, but I am focused on seeing his satisfaction to the end if he agrees to continue dealing with me

Jarod, you have to develop a killer instinct to act on things right away. You're privileged to be getting the advice you have but you can't even recognize the calibre of the guy coaching you. You're not listening. Start doing so. Very closely, and acting on the great advice or forget it.

I replied to your email and said I was in the process of hiring for the job as my last task for the day, and if you wanted to you can let me know you wanted to do the job and I would let you do that, provided you communicated on time before I'd hired someone else.

You were on the board when I sent that and about an hour ago and would have seen it, but have logged out again, so you obviously have avoidance issues.

You've got to overcome them.

I assume the reason you got in touch was to maybe get a chance to justify why you've completely ignored me, not because you wanted to make good and turn things around and get going.

It was my last work session of the day and it's been wasted on seeing if you'd get back to me and get serious and want to get going. You didn't.

Stop wasting people's time. They haven't got time to waste on bullshit and melodrama. You have to value their time and projects and goals and aspirations as well as your.

Whatever you do, get serious and committed or don't bother wasted Dan's time like you have mine.

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kirbymarketingconcierge

9 years ago

it's in moments like this, we can show are true colors.

As Tony Robbin's say's, our lives are dictated by the decisions we make

Is Jarod going to decide to handle this adversity or run away?

I am hopeful he will make the decision to handle it.

If you don't Jarod, this can haunt you for a long, long time.
Have no Regrets.

An opportunity, to face (public) scrutiny and come out better for it.

you can do it.

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iAmNameLess

9 years ago

Originally Posted by kirbymarketingconcierge

it's in moments like this, we can show are true colors.

As Tony Robbin's say's, our lives are dictated by the decisions we make

Is Jarod going to decide to handle this adversity or run away?

I am hopeful he will make the decision to handle it.

If you don't Jarod, this can haunt you for a long, long time.
Have no Regrets.

An opportunity, to face (public) scrutiny and come out better for it.

you can do it.

He doesn't realize this though. This is probably more of an opportunity than he's had. There's no fire. No passion.

I commented on his thread, said okay I want to see your process, I need a website put together. I haven't heard from him.

The whole mishap with Underground, that's due to lack of experience and probably lack of passion and need, to get things going. Maybe because he doesn't value his own time, he doesn't value someone elses either.

The only way he can come ahead at this point, is apologize, fix the issues, and move forward. He's only partially apologized.

I don't really know Underground, I don't know what his business is, or what he does, but I get the impression he knows what he's doing, and that if I were in Jared's shoes I would treat Underground like he single handedly can give me enough work for all of 2015.

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kirbymarketingconcierge

9 years ago

the power of an apology.

the influence of admitting
" if your not happy as a client, then I'm not happy, let's solve it ASAP"

it's worked for me.

does Jarod still have the time and opportunity???

should Jarod keep is day job???

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thet

9 years ago

Originally Posted by kirbymarketingconcierge

the power of an apology.

the influence of admitting
" if your not happy as a client, then I'm not happy, let's solve it ASAP"

it's worked for me.

does Jarod still have the time and opportunity???

should Jarod keep is day job???

This and more, today, in days of our Warriorforum

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savidge4

9 years ago

I spoke with Jarod. To put it simply, he is over his head. The methods he implemented in his pre fulfillment work flow are not allowing projects to move forward. This is something he and I are in the process of working through this afternoon into this evening. By tomorrow morning there will be a plan of action in place that will not only allow Jarod to understand what is expected of him from a design level from the client, but more importantly will allow him to start the actual fulfillment process.

Underground, At this time Jarod will not be able to meet the dead line requirements that you are needing. I personally if you like, will assume that responsibility and fulfill your requirements as needed. I personally apologize for the inconvenience this may have caused, and do sincerely understand at this point an apology is not enough. However, I am at this point offering a proposal for completion. The ball is in your court.

At this time I have asked that Jarod continue to keep this thread updated. I have asked that he keep his time spent here at a minimum in regards to responses. He needs to focus on the process of fulfilling the remaining 4 clients, to the BEST of his ability.

I think all of us here understand there is a difference between learning something on our own, and being shown the way. At the fundamental core they are the same in outcome, it is time saved that separates the 2 methods.

Thank you for your patience.

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Underground

9 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

I spoke with Jarod. To put it simply, he is over his head. The methods he implemented in his pre fulfillment work flow are not allowing projects to move forward. This is something he and I are in the process of working through this afternoon into this evening. By tomorrow morning there will be a plan of action in place that will not only allow Jarod to understand what is expected of him from a design level from the client, but more importantly will allow him to start the actual fulfillment process.

Underground, At this time Jarod will not be able to meet the dead line requirements that you are needing. I personally if you like, will assume that responsibility and fulfill your requirements as needed. I personally apologize for the inconvenience this may have caused, and do sincerely understand at this point an apology is not enough. However, I am at this point offering a proposal for completion. The ball is in your court.

At this time I have asked that Jarod continue to keep this thread updated. I have asked that he keep his time spent here at a minimum in regards to responses. He needs to focus on the process of fulfilling the remaining 4 clients, to the BEST of his ability.

I think all of us here understand there is a difference between learning something on our own, and being shown the way. At the fundamental core they are the same in outcome, it is time saved that separates the 2 methods.

Thank you for your patience.

This is a very appreciated gesture, and it would allow me to put an important process in place and be ready to go with it Monday. it would be really helpful to get it done.

Have you read the instructions Savidge? The template is HTML5. It needs to be places over a mix of php and wordpress sites acting as coming soon lead capture pages.

I was going mess about with customizing logos for each site and having each site link to a landing page with more info, but I think we could just have the sign and landing page all in one and use that on all the sites, it's straightforward that way, the only thing is customizing the HTML5 template before hand (I don't know which cms to use for that or which tool) and messing with files in cpanel and uploading that page.

If you can do this things, then sure. I'll need to work on the landing page tomorrow with all the elements and images needed, so we're probably looking at Monday for completion, which is fine.

Given what I've said, would any of that be a problem?

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savidge4

9 years ago

It looks as if we are a go with this project.

Originally Posted by Underground

This is a very appreciated gesture, and it would allow me to put an important process in place and be ready to go with it Monday. it would be really helpful to get it done.

Have you read the instructions Savidge? The template is HTML5. It needs to be places over a mix of php and wordpress sites acting as coming soon lead capture pages.

I was going mess about with customizing logos for each site and having each site link to a landing page with more info, but I think we could just have the sign and landing page all in one and use that on all the sites, it's straightforward that way, the only thing is customizing the HTML5 template before hand (I don't know which cms to use for that or which tool) and messing with files in cpanel and uploading that page.

If you can do this things, then sure. I'll need to work on the landing page tomorrow with all the elements and images needed, so we're probably looking at Monday for completion, which is fine.

Given what I've said, would any of that be a problem?

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KloudStrife

9 years ago

Originally Posted by iAmNameLess

That's because you're wasting everybody's time here, besides the people browsing and learning from the feedback given in this thread.

I was hoping to see some kind of spark from you in your response. It just seems you're not really committed.

I'm pretty confident I'd be able to have you getting a sale within a week, instead of you struggling to give 5 free sites away. The reason I won't do that though, is because you come across as someone that's not serious and just going to punk out.

If you aren't willing to take yourself serious enough, then don't expect me to.

Do you have Skype? I have a question to ask you

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iAmNameLess 9 years ago

Originally Posted by KloudStrife

Do you have Skype? I have a question to ask you

Yes, it's iarenameless, just let me know who you are when you send a contact request.
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- KloudStrife 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by iAmNameLess
  
  Yes, it's iarenameless, just let me know who you are when you send a contact request.
  
  Ok i'll add you on right now
  
  I'm Jesse.is on Skype you'll see a picture of swirling marble rocks
  
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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

I hate to be that guy... but how many successful websites have you built, do you have? YOU are a graphic designer, that is specializing in HTML & CSS UI UX. THATS IT... nothing more nothing less. As much as I am a HUGE believer in structure, and its abilities, I am going to keep my mouth shut right now and tell you that it is the Clients CONTENT that will make or break the sites ability to succeed. YOU have no part in that process correct?

It's cool with me, and I can understand if things aren't adding up with me. I have a fair history of websites I've designed -- about 13 websites I've designed from my portfolio (here is a list of websites I've designed already). I don't know about the successful part, but I've designed a good amount of websites before.

As for the graphic design part, I'm originally a web designer. Right now I'm just studying graphic design so I can groom my skills and become an excellent designer like Mike Kus someday. He's always been my favorite website designer from the start, and I just enjoy his work every time I see it -- even though it's been about 400 times now lol, but you get the point.

Originally Posted by savidge4

And here in lies the pain of low end sites. If you were to ask those folks if they pay for their own hosting or have a plan with their page designer, they more than likely tell you hosting was to expensive with the designer guy, so they self host. What happens when you self host? you don't get reports... You don't get needed updates... you don't have someone in your corner as you are suggesting in this very post... Someone that has a VESTED interest in the success of the site.

For right now, you have dropped off the hosting packages ( and I believe that to be a good decision for now ) But with the above statement you can get in idea of the importance of that package and you and your clients relationship.

As it stands right now... you are in a build it and next scenario. You can aspire to having a great set of communications with your current clients, and hope they return, but I think that is as far as the current model we collectively have you worked into. FOR RIGHT NOW.. this is NOT a bad thing. Look at the growth in the process you have made already. Look at the changes in the opening process' you have made. Relish in the fact that YOU stopped talking, and took ACTION!

Dan has already said it.. Ill say it again.. You are LEGEND! ( sorry been speaking to to many people in the UK recently! hahaha )

You know, speaking of business models, I'm not entirely certain what my own model is. But based on what you're saying and what everybody else has suggested, I believe my model is the build-it-and-next one. It sounds just about right for the situations I'm dealing with right now.

And thanks for that perspective. Your points are actually better than mines haha

Originally Posted by savidge4

This statement is VERY true... Just not for now... You are offering your services for FREE for a number of reasons. #1 the clients you have ( should be ) USING you and your abilities. #2 you are USING them to gain the unparalleled knowledge of the PROCESS, Working out the kinks. And I am sure we were all HOPING that you would be gaining the belief in yourself and your abilities.

I PERSONALLY want you to understand YOU have done nothing wrong here.. only right. There is NOT a sour end to this... there cant be. You stood up and took action. That, in itself is GAME ON.

Hmm. So are you saying my first 5 clients will give me knowledge ahead of time to carve out a realistic, starting signup process for my own business when I began charging?

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thet

9 years ago

Need to read everything later Dan, because I am at work.

But, how do we know for sure there is something like a financial thermostate?

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DaniMc

9 years ago

Originally Posted by thet

Need to read everything later Dan, because I am at work.

But, how do we know for sure there is something like a financial thermostate?

Every person I have ever met wants a better life. People say they are satisfied, and that is rarely true.

So, I'd estimate that 99% of people are not truly satisfied with their financial situation.

I'd also estimate that 99% of people live in the same socio-economic status as their parents. Similar house, similar car, similar savings, similar neighborhood.

They might be a little above or below the class in which they grew up, but not by much. Less than one standard deviation of difference for almost every person on the planet.

If people want a better life, why do they live below their potential?

What is the difference between these classes of people? Why do some climb to the top while most do not?

It's the thermostat at work. Self sabotage or temporary motivation will kick in to keep you in the financial comfort zone.

People who grow up a millionaire, will usually do whatever it takes to keep that status. They simply MUST have enough money.

People who grow up dirt poor often climb out because their thermostat can't go that low. They are disgusted by poverty. Others will find a way to convince themselves that being poor isn't so bad, and there they will stay.

The most dangerous place is the middle class thermostat - this comfort zone is nowhere near most people's potential, but they are just comfortable enough not to do the hard work to change it. They were born "room temperature" - and will probably stay that way for life. Until some economic collapse - then they fall into poverty because they had a false sense of security. They were comfortable, but should not have been.

We absolutely have a thermostat in every area of life. We can change it though.

When we elevate our thoughts, we can then elevate our habits. When we elevate our habits, we can elevate our life. Keep our life elevated, and the thermostat will adjust.

What used to be comfortable, would now feel like freezing. What used to bring comfort, now brings panic.

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thet

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

Every person I have ever met wants a better life. People say they are satisfied, and that is rarely true.

So, I'd estimate that 99% of people are not truly satisfied with their financial situation.

I'd also estimate that 99% of people live in the same socio-economic status as their parents. Similar house, similar car, similar savings, similar neighborhood.

They might be a little above or below the class in which they grew up, but not by much. Less than one standard deviation of difference for almost every person on the planet.

If people want a better life, why do they live below their potential?

What is the difference between these classes of people? Why do some climb to the top while most do not?

It's the thermostat at work. Self sabotage or temporary motivation will kick in to keep you in the financial comfort zone.

People who grow up a millionaire, will usually do whatever it takes to keep that status. They simply MUST have enough money.

People who grow up dirt poor often climb out because their thermostat can't go that low. They are disgusted by poverty. Others will find a way to convince themselves that being poor isn't so bad, and there they will stay.

The most dangerous place is the middle class thermostat - this comfort zone is nowhere near most people's potential, but they are just comfortable enough not to do the hard work to change it. They were born "room temperature" - and will probably stay that way for life. Until some economic collapse - then they fall into poverty because they had a false sense of security. They were comfortable, but should not have been.

We absolutely have a thermostat in every area of life. We can change it though.

When we elevate our thoughts, we can then elevate our habits. When we elevate our habits, we can elevate our life. Keep our life elevated, and the thermostat will adjust.

What used to be comfortable, would now feel like freezing. What used to bring comfort, now brings panic.

The trick then to become surrounded by people of a higher class. For most not possible, however, you can read a shit ton of books from and about successful people. However, you still have to deal with a lot of mediocrity if you are in the 'wrong' thermostate. Wonder what we can do to get to the level we can now not even imagine.

I must admit, I don't have the believe I could make 100 mil. TBH, at this point, 1 mil even seems impossible. Even after listening to The 10x rule

So yes, I agree, that thermostate is there and keeps us down

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DaniMc 9 years ago

Originally Posted by thet

1 mil even seems impossible. Even after listening to The 10x rule

Then read it again.

I keep it in my ears almost constantly. And boy does it ever work.
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- thet 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Dan McCoy
  
  Then read it again.
  
  I keep it in my ears almost constantly. And boy does it ever work.
  
  Yes. Not the time to talk about this in this thread because this thread is to awesome to get sidetracked. We can discuss this another time
  
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savidge4

9 years ago

Originally Posted by thet

The trick then to become surrounded by people of a higher class. For most not possible, however, you can read a shit ton of books from and about successful people. However, you still have to deal with a lot of mediocrity if you are in the 'wrong' thermostate. Wonder what we can do to get to the level we can now not even imagine.

I must admit, I don't have the believe I could make 100 mil. TBH, at this point, 1 mil even seems impossible. Even after listening to The 10x rule

So yes, I agree, that thermostate is there and keeps us down

Do you see the walls and barriers that you are placing? "For most not possible" "I don't have believe I could make 100 mil" "1 mil even seems impossible" then you throw in "Wonder what we can do to get to the level we can now not even imagine."

The first and last example "For most"and then "wonder what we" you are disconnecting yourself from the reality it is possible to reach the goal of 1 million, by combining yourself with the examples of those around you.

THIS is why association becomes important. In your current circles if you were to say "I am going to make a Million this year" You would probably hear some laughs and a comment such as "If you win the lottery!" Set yourself in the right circles and the same comment is going to result in conversations such as being had right now.

There are 2 keys to getting anything you want in life. There are Dreams and there are Goals. You can point off in the sunset and say I have a dream of making 1 million dollars. The dream seems far fetched. You can then say that you have a goal of making 1 million dollars. ( still unto itself far fetched - I hear yeah ) BUT as a stepping stone to that goal you ALSO say my first short term goal to reaching my million dollar long term goal is making $5000 a month.

This is when you start asking questions. What do I have to learn? and what do I have to do? so you can reach $5000 a month. Once there set a new goal... $10,000 a month, then $20,000 a month.

If that even in your mind seems lofty... what can I do to make $1250 a week? What do I have to do to make $178 a DAY. What can I do 18 hours a day and make $10 an hour doing it?

Break down that $1,000,000 like I just did with $5000... ( It breaks down to $154 an hour 18 hours a day btw )

Short term goals can break down long term dreams and make them realities.

Without Goals, dreams are just dreams

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thet

9 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

Do you see the walls and barriers that you are placing? "For most not possible" "I don't have believe I could make 100 mil" "1 mil even seems impossible" then you throw in "Wonder what we can do to get to the level we can now not even imagine."

The first and last example "For most"and then "wonder what we" you are disconnecting yourself from the reality it is possible to reach the goal of 1 million, by combining yourself with the examples of those around you.

THIS is why association becomes important. In your current circles if you were to say "I am going to make a Million this year" You would probably hear some laughs and a comment such as "If you win the lottery!" Set yourself in the right circles and the same comment is going to result in conversations such as being had right now.

There are 2 keys to getting anything you want in life. There are Dreams and there are Goals. You can point off in the sunset and say I have a dream of making 1 million dollars. The dream seems far fetched. You can then say that you have a goal of making 1 million dollars. ( still unto itself far fetched - I hear yeah ) BUT as a stepping stone to that goal you ALSO say my first short term goal to reaching my million dollar long term goal is making $5000 a month.

This is when you start asking questions. What do I have to learn? and what do I have to do? so you can reach $5000 a month. Once there set a new goal... $10,000 a month, then $20,000 a month.

If that even in your mind seems lofty... what can I do to make $1250 a week? What do I have to do to make $178 a DAY. What can I do 18 hours a day and make $10 an hour doing it?

Break down that $1,000,000 like I just did with $5000... ( It breaks down to $154 an hour 18 hours a day btw )

Short term goals can break down long term dreams and make them realities.

Without Goals, dreams are just dreams

Interesting, and you are right. If I tell I want to make a million I get a: "We all do, Thet". Like I said something that just isnt going to happen.

Breaking it down looks like a very smart thing to do. Will think about it. This year I worked hard, and was able to get an extra 500$ to my salary.
I am probably working hard, but not smart. Since so many people here earn so much more.

Frustrating to not know what I dont know and not knowing what I should learn. I am unaware. I am in the stage of consious incompetence when it comes to learn, which is better then the previous state:
1. Unconsious incompetence
2. Consious incompetence

next step is
3. Consious competence
5. Unconsious competence

If you look back at anything you have learned you will recognize it. I am in "stage 2" when it comes to making money.
I know about making money from reading biographies and nonphixion, but I don't know how to

I feel bad about derailing this thread but your response was to awesome to not respond. Perhaps we can make a seperate thread about "Financial thermostate"

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dave147

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

I'd also estimate that 99% of people live in the same socio-economic status as their parents. Similar house, similar car, similar savings, similar neighborhood.

wow I'm in the 1%...thanks Dan

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jarod b

9 years ago

Update:
Sorry for the missed update yesterday guys. For the same reason I disappeared for 2 days is the same that happened yesterday. I would explain, but I don't want to make any excuses. And I am a person that believes in examples more than words, so I treat myself the same way I trust other people. With that said, I'm basically saying it's my fault I didn't show up and I let my life situation get a hold of me. I won't let it happen again.

So first I want to say I am honestly starting to get a bit depressed that business is running slow and it's been 3 weeks since I started. I truly thought that it would pick up faster since I'm offering a free service. And I didn't expect it would prolong this far because of a fail signup process I have and because I've never interacted with a client before. I want to get better at this, but I don't know how yet.

Second, I had 2 appointments scheduled. I had a phone call meeting with a young marketing professional, and a skype video meeting with a guy from London. I missed the second due to reasons that could have been easily worked around if I was serious enough, and I spoke with the first one for about 5-15 minutes before he had to take a call from an important client. I feel like a part of me is dodging the second client now because I told him we needed to speed up the signup process, and now I am the one slowing it down and ruining his opportunity. On top of that, I'm not the most professional, but I am certain what I did was unprofessional without a doubt, and I need to step up my tenacity.

Third, I read a thread by Jason Kanigan about the reality of exponential results vs linear results, and I realized that business doesn't bring linear results, but randomized exponential results instead. And this point is basically about patience. I've never been the one to consciously endure lack of results for weeks before, so this process is going to a very delicate experience for me since I don't know how to deal with it. I'm actually going to speak with my boss about this situation when I go to work today.

Last, I really don't have much to say. I basically didn't do much these past 4 days, business is moving way slower than I expected, and I want to make this work, but I don't believe I'm trying hard enough.

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savidge4

9 years ago

Originally Posted by jarod b

So first I want to say I am honestly starting to get a bit depressed that business is running slow and it's been 3 weeks since I started. I truly thought that it would pick up faster since I'm offering a free service. And I didn't expect it would prolong this far because of a fail signup process I have and because I've never interacted with a client before. I want to get better at this, but I don't know how yet.

I know you probably cant see it, but many of us here can. Dan is sending you on a journey. A one way ticket ride if you will. THIS process is doing EXACTLY what it should be doing. You are learning fast ( maybe not as fast as you would like ) and hard where YOUR strengths and weakness' are. You have the support here to help you through these issues. That unto itself is something MOST do not have when they start for themselves. You are right where you need to be, and doing what you need to be doing.

Originally Posted by jarod b

Third, I read a thread by Jason Kanigan about the reality of exponential results vs linear results, and I realized that business doesn't bring linear results, but randomized exponential results instead. And this point is basically about patience. I've never been the one to consciously endure lack of results for weeks before, so this process is going to a very delicate experience for me since I don't know how to deal with it. I'm actually going to speak with my boss about this situation when I go to work today.

I don't want to use the word mistake, but it is the only word that comes to mind. So here goes.. the Biggest mistake I see in someone that first starts a business is classifying "Prospects" from "Leads" from "Clients" In your situation specifically I think these can be rather defined. you have those that have posted on your thread with interest. this makes them a prospect. IF to this point there has been not much communication beyond Hi how are you thanks for your interest here please fill this out... they are STILL Prospects.

ONCE you have communicated a bit further such as the communication with the Prospect yesterday for a 10 - 15 minutes, this is where a prospect will turn into a lead. Still not closed... but edging ever so close to getting there.

The final step is a client. All the terms are agreed apon, and the green light for work has been given ( and in later cases for you, this is where the check comes into play ) Just remember this... CHECK = CLIENT. Until then they are a Lead, or a Prospect.

Part of the overall long term education of being in business for yourself is learning when and how to reach out and touch each of these different levels of in coming business. Notice I said "Long term education". 30+ years later I am still learning. I am constantly trying different approaches, new techniques, different time increments.

You are feeling you have done nothing in the past 4 days... but in truth you have been doing something. You are brewing, You are feeling the pain, the hunger is building, you are holding back the urge to reach out and grab one of these leads you have and contacting them and saying "LETS F ING DO THIS ALREADY!!!!" and you know what? Sometimes that is what it takes. Sometimes its way over the top and you loose them.

At the end of the day, success is in YOUR hands. If you feel out of control in the situation... then you are. WHAT can you do to get the control back?

I haven't seen your pre sale material... but here is what I would do If I were you... send the material and set up a time to go over it. When I say go over it.. I mean sit with them on the phone and fill it out. That piece becomes a reference for them, and a tool for you. You no longer are waiting.. God I hate waiting. You are taking control of YOUR process to bring these prospect / leads into becoming clients.

In the same communication, you start talking timelines and details... YOU have the information you need to get started... and they will say Go... All you need at this point is what? a logo? and you are set. I would bet most times in this scenario, you could get that right then and there. And guess what? The deal has been cemented, and you have a "Client"

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jarod b

9 years ago

Guys I will be back to respond to more posts later. I have to get to work this morning. Talk to you all soon.

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DaniMc

9 years ago

Originally Posted by jarod b

Update:
Sorry for the missed update yesterday guys. For the same reason I disappeared for 2 days is the same that happened yesterday. I would explain, but I don't want to make any excuses. And I am a person that believes in examples more than words, so I treat myself the same way I trust other people. With that said, I'm basically saying it's my fault I didn't show up and I let my life situation get a hold of me. I won't let it happen again.

So first I want to say I am honestly starting to get a bit depressed that business is running slow and it's been 3 weeks since I started. I truly thought that it would pick up faster since I'm offering a free service. And I didn't expect it would prolong this far because of a fail signup process I have and because I've never interacted with a client before. I want to get better at this, but I don't know how yet.

Second, I had 2 appointments scheduled. I had a phone call meeting with a young marketing professional, and a skype video meeting with a guy from London. I missed the second due to reasons that could have been easily worked around if I was serious enough, and I spoke with the first one for about 5-15 minutes before he had to take a call from an important client. I feel like a part of me is dodging the second client now because I told him we needed to speed up the signup process, and now I am the one slowing it down and ruining his opportunity. On top of that, I'm not the most professional, but I am certain what I did was unprofessional without a doubt, and I need to step up my tenacity.

Third, I read a thread by Jason Kanigan about the reality of exponential results vs linear results, and I realized that business doesn't bring linear results, but randomized exponential results instead. And this point is basically about patience. I've never been the one to consciously endure lack of results for weeks before, so this process is going to a very delicate experience for me since I don't know how to deal with it. I'm actually going to speak with my boss about this situation when I go to work today.

Last, I really don't have much to say. I basically didn't do much these past 4 days, business is moving way slower than I expected, and I want to make this work, but I don't believe I'm trying hard enough.

This is good, good insight here. What you are discovering, is that running a business has nothing to do with the things other people do - rather it is all about what YOU do.

The greatest obstacles you will have to overcome are in your own habits. It's good to be disappointed when you do something that goes against what you really want.

When I don't do what I should, I am really, really hard on myself. You see, my personal standards are much higher than what anyone else can put on me. My wife says "Don't beat yourself up, you can get it done tomorrow" but she doesn't understand that failure and success happen one small choice at a time.

So, when I don't hit my daily performance standards, I hold myself accountable. It's all in my head. I didn't just fail that day on the small tasks - no, I failed on my big goals that day. I let my family and myself down that day.

Your standards must be absolute. Set in stone. Everything counts.

Everything you do either builds or tears down self-esteem. Self-esteem and confidence are the most important tools you have. Notice how you feel about yourself because of this.

Never do things that will tear down your self-esteem. Always do things that you will feel good about afterwards. If I need to make 100 calls - I know I will feel like a champ afterwards - so I do it. Even if I don't want to.

Originally Posted by jarod b

It's cool with me, and I can understand if things aren't adding up with me. I have a fair history of websites I've designed -- about 13 websites I've designed from my portfolio (here is a list of websites I've designed already). I don't know about the successful part, but I've designed a good amount of websites before.

Jarod - these are really good man. Why are they not in your sales thread??

You are a good designer. You need to go rewrite your sales thread - put these examples in there, stop talking about being an intern, and sell yourself. You have skills!

As for the graphic design part, I'm originally a web designer. Right now I'm just studying graphic design so I can groom my skills and become an excellent designer like Mike Kus someday. He's always been my favorite website designer from the start, and I just enjoy his work every time I see it -- even though it's been about 400 times now lol, but you get the point.

He is a good designer. Email him. Try to get on the phone with him. I'm sure you can find his number. See if he has any advice. See if there is any work you can help him with. even if it is just administrative. You never know unless you ask.

You know, speaking of business models, I'm not entirely certain what my own model is. But based on what you're saying and what everybody else has suggested, I believe my model is the build-it-and-next one. It sounds just about right for the situations I'm dealing with right now.

And thanks for that perspective. Your points are actually better than mines haha

Hmm. So are you saying my first 5 clients will give me knowledge ahead of time to carve out a realistic, starting signup process for my own business when I began charging?

Your business model right now is learning how run a business. You have a great handle on the design part and will only get better.

You have identified your GREATEST problem above - the problem is with your habits and your drive to succeed. You have been lazy, unmotivated, and less than professional with a prospective client. THAT is what you are working on.

So - if you remember above, I said that solving new problems means you are growing. Here is a great example. You have a problem that is harming your business, now you need to solve it. Willpower and discipline will NOT do it. You need a REAL solution that will help you stay on track.

Get out a legal pad. Write your problem at the top, then sit back and think about it for just a few minutes. Focus totally on the problem. Then, write down 5 possible ways you can solve it. Every day, put aside 10 minutes of your day to do nothing but think and totally FOCUS on solving this problem with your behavior.

Every day, write 5 new possible solutions. At the end of the week, you will have 25-30 possible ways to help you stay on track.

At some point during that week, while you are doing something completely unrelated, the answer will flash into your mind. Write it down, and do it.

I'm serious about this exercise. Your mind is much more powerful than you think. You can run a business! You just have to train your mind correctly.

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kirbymarketingconcierge 9 years ago

If you had to make a choice between a great product or service,

And an average person running the business

OR

An average product or service

and a great person running the business,

which would you choose?

the latest, greatest bell or whistle OR Dan???
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jarod b

9 years ago

[quote=Dan McCoy;9799580]This is good, good insight here. What you are discovering, is that running a business has nothing to do with the things other people do - rather it is all about what YOU do.

The greatest obstacles you will have to overcome are in your own habits. It's good to be disappointed when you do something that goes against what you really want.

When I don't do what I should, I am really, really hard on myself. You see, my personal standards are much higher than what anyone else can put on me. My wife says "Don't beat yourself up, you can get it done tomorrow" but she doesn't understand that failure and success happen one small choice at a time.

So, when I don't hit my daily performance standards, I hold myself accountable. It's all in my head. I didn't just fail that day on the small tasks - no, I failed on my big goals that day. I let my family and myself down that day.

Your standards must be absolute. Set in stone. Everything counts.

Everything you do either builds or tears down self-esteem. Self-esteem and confidence are the most important tools you have. Notice how you feel about yourself because of this.

Never do things that will tear down your self-esteem. Always do things that you will feel good about afterwards. If I need to make 100 calls - I know I will feel like a champ afterwards - so I do it. Even if I don't want to.

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

Jarod - these are really good man. Why are they not in your sales thread??

You are a good designer. You need to go rewrite your sales thread - put these examples in there, stop talking about being an intern, and sell yourself. You have skills!

I didn't think they were good enough LOL. But I'll post those as well.

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

He is a good designer. Email him. Try to get on the phone with him. I'm sure you can find his number. See if he has any advice. See if there is any work you can help him with. even if it is just administrative. You never know unless you ask.

Okay sure. I've actually emailed once before, but that was like monthssssss ago. I hope he responds lol. Here is the email I sent:

Title: Re: Advice for New Graphic Designer?

Hi Mike Kus. Maybe you won't remember because we spoke like a year or two ago, but I'm Jarod Billingslea, and I've always been a fan of your work since maybe 2008 or 2009. A business professional suggested I speak with you since I like your work, but it would great if you can share some advice. I would really like to know more about your approach with project research and concept development. That would be amazing to know!

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

Your business model right now is learning how run a business. You have a great handle on the design part and will only get better.

You have identified your GREATEST problem above - the problem is with your habits and your drive to succeed. You have been lazy, unmotivated, and less than professional with a prospective client. THAT is what you are working on.

So - if you remember above, I said that solving new problems means you are growing. Here is a great example. You have a problem that is harming your business, now you need to solve it. Willpower and discipline will NOT do it. You need a REAL solution that will help you stay on track.

Get out a legal pad. Write your problem at the top, then sit back and think about it for just a few minutes. Focus totally on the problem. Then, write down 5 possible ways you can solve it. Every day, put aside 10 minutes of your day to do nothing but think and totally FOCUS on solving this problem with your behavior.

Every day, write 5 new possible solutions. At the end of the week, you will have 25-30 possible ways to help you stay on track.

At some point during that week, while you are doing something completely unrelated, the answer will flash into your mind. Write it down, and do it.

I'm serious about this exercise. Your mind is much more powerful than you think. You can run a business! You just have to train your mind correctly.

Okay. I have listed 1 problem, but i'm going to focus on 1 big problem at a time. Is that okay??

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KloudStrife

9 years ago

Amazing info in this thread. bookmarked

Thanks

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Underground

9 years ago

Look Jarod, I'm going to be straight with you here.

You've got to much talent (and believe me one of my pets hates is poor, shoddy design work, and I would not let a person work on my stuff who didn't have a true designer's eye and was professional), and you had the massive courage and good sense to take the leap, which puts you in a very small group of people. Not only that, you're getting guidance here from a highly experienced businessman who operates at a very high level of performance, and if you see this through, and stay humble enough to listen to him, you will get there yourself and be a high-performer.

I also took you up on your offer because we'd corresponded in this thread and I thought that would lessen the nerves and anxiety as you'd be dealing with someone who knows the situation. And I do.

But I feel there is the self-pitying going on because things didn't magically turn out just like you expected. So many times I've been there and that is why I recognize it, so don't take that as a jab. I know now it rarely ever does so you have to get used to and adapt to that reality that it rarely ever does.

This is not about becoming a pro straight away and everything going smoothly. You wasn't getting told a load of hype about you'll be rich and accomplished tomorrow. It's about you gaining real hand's on experience of what you can expect on a on-going basis as a professional freelancer. So you simply must stop taking things personally, and see it all as feedback that lets you sharpen your game a lot faster and quicker than most people will ever get the chance to do. It will takes years for many.

I'll give you some instant feedback to work on.

I missed your appointment the first time. Although I took responsibility I have since noticed a flaw in the process was that I'd sent the email asking for confirmation of a time that was better for you. I was flexible and said I can do evening or morning. You replied about an hour before the appointment and said we'll get started in hour. So you misunderstood my email, plus gave me an hour or so time frame for confirmation and assumed I'd be around to see the email in that time. I've worked with over 50 freelancers in the last year or so alone. What's separates the one's you want to work with consistently and the ones you get rid of straight away before the jobs even finished is following instructions and listening properly.

I wasn't around in the hour or so time frame you gave and was expecting just a confirmation email back at that point. I then responded afterwards telling you I was sorry and that I knew you'd have a lot on with this so I can be flexible.

I waited about 4 days for you to reply, and you didn't respond to my email personally, which is something you should do with clients to keep a good working relationship and build trust. You have to engage personally.

I then did write out full instructions for you a couple of days ago or maybe early yesterday, making sure there was no delay this time and you had everything you needed, and you've just ignored them and haven't let me know, even though I gave a timeframe and told you I need to meet a deadline. I still don't even know if you intend to bail out or do it and get your first project under your belt.

I also feel some kind of resentment as if I'm part of the people who are letting you down, etc. You're making your frustrations and disappointments known in this thread, when you'd be much better doing it directly with the person.

Now, I'm not angry here, and I would be very pissed of with someone else who did this and am very quick to get rid of freelancers I don't feel are right, so that's saying something. I say the above not to make you feel bad. I greatly respect and admire what you are doing here and for taking this plunge. I know what it's like to be fearful of going into business and wondering how you come across to clients.

But you need to quickly let go of all this personal disappointment that things weren't how you wanted them, because they never are that way for anyone. Things are going to be as they are, not just perfectly how we want and hope. The only way to play the game is to learn how to respond to things, the set backs, stresses, disappointments, failures and overcome them and meet the challenges head on.

Plus I speaking from the heart here, so understand I'm in your corner like Dan is. I've gone through exactly the same thing. Don't talk yourself out of the game.

There's a project here waiting for you. If you take it on, and don't think too much, you'll have your first project done and out of the way and be over that first hurdle.

Or you can decide this thing really ain't for you. But with your talent, you absolutely have to let others benefit from your skills or it would such a waste. I never seem anyone with your level of design skill on this forum. You actually have something worthwhile to make a living with.

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thet

9 years ago

Jarod B. Do it.

You know wat hurts?

It hurts looking back and not knowing what would have happened if you took the shot.
That hurts, and it will take a long time to go away. In some situations, it will never really go away.

If it's fear you are feeling, do it.

You have some great mentors here who are setting you up to succeed.
This could be "your lucky moment". Somebody once said: The harder I work, the luckier I seem to get.

You have worked hard to get to the phase where you are at NOW. You dont just become a skilled designer. You own that.This is your lucky shot. Your moment to take the leap. To be able to make the jump.
Until, in a few years, you are again at the phase of NOW.
And it will continue, and continue, and continue.
If you grow.

Or you do what I did between my 18 and 26. which is 8 years. You can never fully commit. You can bounce between several "projects". You can look back and think: Shit, I missed some years where I could really start to get my 10k hours in (10k -20k to get to EXCELLENT level / mastery)

Do you want to go in business or not? If you do, then start those 10k now, instead of over 2 years..3 years.. Or lie to yourself in 20 years from now that you never really wanted it in the first place. I used that excuse too, it kind of works, it just feels like a lie because it is.

What you should fear, is the feeling of regret.

Dan is your coach, your Phil Jackson. What's there to lose if you can only grow?

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kirbymarketingconcierge 9 years ago

I 2nd what Thet stated.

I am rooting for you!

you can do it. you will belong.
you are a professional
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DaniMc 9 years ago

Originally Posted by thet

What you should fear, is the feeling of regret.

On my wall, right in front of me, among many other things, is a phrase:

"The pain of discipline is less than the pain of regret!"

I think it is simply awesome how so many people are jumping in here, to encourage Jarod.

It may feel like you are getting beat up. The thing is, 99% of people quit when the finish line is just steps away.

Consider this your crowd of people - cheering you on to keep fighting.

This is about your freedom. This is about being the person you want to be.

This is the "Hero's Journey" - this is the path of finding out that the hardest thing isn't to "slay the dragon" - the hardest thing is to conquer the self. Before a man can conquer his dreams, he must conquer himself. If a man will conquer himself, then he can conquer the world.
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iAmNameLess

9 years ago

Okay... I haven't been keeping up with this thread because quite frankly it's rather long and would be time consuming for me to do so. BUT.. I did skim through this last page here and then read it over very carefully.

I don't have time right now, and I have a meeting shortly but I do intend to reread this ENTIRE thread when I get back probably early this evening.

In short... there's been some mistakes made in my opinion, and that's part of the process. I make mistakes all the time. It's good. You make mistakes when you try to improve a process, it either works or it doesn't.

You're trying to not just improve a process but find a process for yourself.

I consider what you've done so far a failure. Let's call it what it is. Now it's time to adjust your approach, don't you think?

I know some people will say as long as you try, you didn't fail. BS. Failure is real and if you don't recognize failure when it happens then you're going to waste time, money and be further from success.

So what we have to do here is adjust.

I'll come back later and elaborate on this... if I don't by tonight, somebody PM me and remind me lol.

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DaniMc

9 years ago

Originally Posted by iAmNameLess

In short... there's been some mistakes made in my opinion, and that's part of the process. I make mistakes all the time. It's good. You make mistakes when you try to improve a process, it either works or it doesn't.

You're trying to not just improve a process but find a process for yourself.

I consider what you've done so far a failure. Let's call it what it is. Now it's time to adjust your approach, don't you think?

I know some people will say as long as you try, you didn't fail. BS. Failure is real and if you don't recognize failure when it happens then you're going to waste time, money and be further from success.

So what we have to do here is adjust.

Yes, there are holes in the strategy! My main aim here has been for Jarod to see that HE HIMSELF has been the weakest link in his two year long quest to start a business.

I am positive that you could give someone the very keys to the kingdom, and if they are not ready to tackle it, they will not be able to make it happen.

Jared admits his problem above, now he needs to change it.

If he can do that, and with your advice, I am sure he can get some momentum.

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iAmNameLess

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

Yes, there are holes in the strategy! My main aim here has been for Jarod to see that HE HIMSELF has been the weakest link in his two year long quest to start a business.

I am positive that you could give someone the very keys to the kingdom, and if they are not ready to tackle it, they will not be able to make it happen.

Jared admits his problem above, now he needs to change it.

If he can do that, and with your advice, I am sure he can get some momentum.

Meh... I'm super pissed off right now. Yes there are indeed holes in the strategy but I understand why you guys would push him in this direction, I would have approached it differently but the end result would be the same.

After going through post #1 to here... I'm incredibly annoyed by the waste of time. Initially, it was out of selfish reasons, about MY time, but you and savidge and a few others have much more invested into this than I do, and he doesn't give a damn.

I'm actually surprised by your willingness to continue helping, and you're by far a better man than I am.

I mean, really... the advice he's been given here overall is worth a pretty penny. It's a shame such a valuable thread is being treated like it's worthless. He's been getting free coaching. I know people, literally KNOW there's people on this board willing to pay over $1,000/mo for coaching who are ready to act.

How could you guys resist calling him out on it? LOL.

FFS... he's blown a few client meetings...he's disappeared for a couple days here and there already... blaming it on his life situation.... the life situation where he's been unemployed for 3 years.

The dude isn't motivated. Yeah, he took action and put up a warrior for hire thread. How the **** can you not sell 5 free websites? FRREEEEEEE websites. FREE. Because he's not serious about it.

The reason he wants to be a freelancer, or business owner, or entrepreneur instead of getting a job is because he's lazy and blaming it on other stuff. He doesn't want the accountability of answering to somebody else.

He's wasted everybody's time here... including his own.

There's no passion. No motivation.

It's too early for excuses, he's been at this for what, a week? skipping out a few days because of life's problems. Life doesn't stop giving you problems.

You're dealt some cards and even if it's a shit hand you have to play it.

Jared, I hope you come back here and are wildly offended by this, and prove that you're serious. I'm not going to waste any additional time on you unless you prove you really want it. Other people can be nice, but nice isn't always the thing that works. I think you owe everyone here an apologize for wasting their time and energy and you owe yourself an apology for wasting your own time and failing yourself.

Shit happens... I know that better than anybody, and when you're at the point where shit happens and you have pissed off clients demanding refunds but you can't refund or else the power is turning off, that is when the shit that happens... gets real. I actually have been there, and I know how not fun that is. I've been there more than I'd like to admit. I wasn't there because of laziness though, it was because of other events that I couldn't control, a mixture of inexperience and bad decisions made it worse.

Your situation though, its not out of your control... you're just lacking hustle.

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DaniMc

9 years ago

Originally Posted by iAmNameLess

I'm actually surprised by your willingness to continue helping, and you're by far a better man than I am.

I mean, really... the advice he's been given here overall is worth a pretty penny. It's a shame such a valuable thread is being treated like it's worthless. He's been getting free coaching. I know people, literally KNOW there's people on this board willing to pay over $1,000/mo for coaching who are ready to act.

How could you guys resist calling him out on it? LOL.

It takes all types - and your post is fully warranted! I definitely respect your "straight from the hip" approach!

My coaching for small businesses was $2,500/mo. I haven't done that in awhile. If someone on this board wants to pay me $1,000 for a month of remote, one-on-one, exclusive coaching - I'll do it.

I never considered anyone on WF would make that sort of commitment.

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savidge4 9 years ago

For those of you that have never heard or seen Eric Thomas... the Y is "Why" as in Why do you...

Rise and Grind - Greatest Motivational Video...
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thet

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

It takes all types - and your post is fully warranted! I definitely respect your "straight from the hip" approach!

My coaching for small businesses was $2,500/mo. I haven't done that in awhile. If someone on this board wants to pay me $1,000 for a month of remote, one-on-one, exclusive coaching - I'll do it.

I never considered anyone on WF would make that sort of commitment.

Just so you know. If i had that kind of money i would get you as a coach

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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by iAmNameLess

Meh... I'm super pissed off right now. Yes there are indeed holes in the strategy but I understand why you guys would push him in this direction, I would have approached it differently but the end result would be the same.

After going through post #1 to here... I'm incredibly annoyed by the waste of time. Initially, it was out of selfish reasons, about MY time, but you and savidge and a few others have much more invested into this than I do, and he doesn't give a damn.

I'm actually surprised by your willingness to continue helping, and you're by far a better man than I am.

I mean, really... the advice he's been given here overall is worth a pretty penny. It's a shame such a valuable thread is being treated like it's worthless. He's been getting free coaching. I know people, literally KNOW there's people on this board willing to pay over $1,000/mo for coaching who are ready to act.

How could you guys resist calling him out on it? LOL.

FFS... he's blown a few client meetings...he's disappeared for a couple days here and there already... blaming it on his life situation.... the life situation where he's been unemployed for 3 years.

The dude isn't motivated. Yeah, he took action and put up a warrior for hire thread. How the **** can you not sell 5 free websites? FRREEEEEEE websites. FREE. Because he's not serious about it.

The reason he wants to be a freelancer, or business owner, or entrepreneur instead of getting a job is because he's lazy and blaming it on other stuff. He doesn't want the accountability of answering to somebody else.

He's wasted everybody's time here... including his own.

There's no passion. No motivation.

It's too early for excuses, he's been at this for what, a week? skipping out a few days because of life's problems. Life doesn't stop giving you problems.

You're dealt some cards and even if it's a shit hand you have to play it.

Jared, I hope you come back here and are wildly offended by this, and prove that you're serious. I'm not going to waste any additional time on you unless you prove you really want it. Other people can be nice, but nice isn't always the thing that works. I think you owe everyone here an apologize for wasting their time and energy and you owe yourself an apology for wasting your own time and failing yourself.

Shit happens... I know that better than anybody, and when you're at the point where shit happens and you have pissed off clients demanding refunds but you can't refund or else the power is turning off, that is when the shit that happens... gets real. I actually have been there, and I know how not fun that is. I've been there more than I'd like to admit. I wasn't there because of laziness though, it was because of other events that I couldn't control, a mixture of inexperience and bad decisions made it worse.

Your situation though, its not out of your control... you're just lacking hustle.

Honestly, from the start of this thread, I knew it wouldn't be easy squeezing time in for starting a business, but I took a chance anyways because I've always wanted to do this, so I don't regret it at all yet. And when Dan McCoy posted, I knew automatically that this is the path I wanted to go with because it's exactly what I wanted to do way long ago when I graduated high school and setup a future for myself.

So when you say I am unmotivated, I agree 100%. It's not normal for me to start a business for the first time ever. I can barely get by with making conversation over the phone as soon as I speak with a stranger for the first time. And setting up appointments and then working out a process is another mystery for me. But I don't care what my weaknesses are, and I don't care what my position is in life right now. So if you feel like I am running through valuable time, then I'm letting you know right now it's not.

I don't drive a car to and from work. I've never worked a job before. I live with my parents still after just turning 23 in November. I don't have friends to socialize with. Not even a girlfriend. I working at an intern and barely getting by but only because of my interest in learning. I don't speak a professional language at all. And I am growing more and more impatient with my lifestyle right about now.

I don't like my lifestyle at all, and I know I need to make changes so that's what I'm doing.

As for timing, I don't have full control over what happens between 5-6:30pm. My dad drives around town a lot and it can take him up to 90 minutes to pick me up and drop me off at home. That's nothing I have no control over. With that said, my home is never peaceful. My mom is half deaf so the TV is easily heard through the walls, and her voice is especially heard when she's talking on the phone. That makes me uncomfortable talking with a professional or client over Skype and so the best time I can talk is in the morning, or during the evening in the back room where it's quiet. And then there is the computer. I'm not the only one using it 24/7. My dad or mom might come in to do some random research or to print off paperwork. And then this thread itself. I don't know about you all, but it can take me 10-40 minutes to write a post. I've written plenty of lengthy comments on things, wrote articles, and journalizing, but I still have a hard time putting my thoughts on the screen. This thread alone eats away time. And then there is the business. I kind of created a operation checklist that I go through, but that still takes time away and I'm still wondering how I'll find time to get to projects while managing the marketing efforts.

Can you see that I am new to this? This is not normal for me. You can say I'm not good with time, but I'm clearly trying to squeeze in time for improvement and growth. And this is not an excuse. I just told you all of the challenges I could think of of from the top of my head.

So to get back to the really important point of this whole comment, I'm not one of the common thread guys you see on here. Dan has already pointed out that I have history of not taking action. But at the same time you can see that I am pasting all of my concerns and fears on this thread. I honestly feared a comment like yours would come up. But now that it's come up, I look at it a completely different way now. So I'm not "offended." I'm not mad. I'm also not wasting people's time on here. I'm taking advantage of what I can and learning from it. You can get mad all you want.

And I can't help it if I'm not a fast learner either. All my life, I've never been one -- my bros and dad were, but not me. And I don't know how to fight. I'm just learning how to cash a check from my paid intern at age 23. I've always been the child that spilled milk or juice, and still do sometimes. And I'm still learning to socialize with people in the real world. I am probably the worst candidate as you can imagine. But I am doing as much as I can think of and not allowing myself to get depressed about it. Naturally I would have copped out at the beginning of this week if I didn't care about this thread, and that is actually something I wanted to ask Dan about later on tonight after reading this thread.

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iAmNameLess

9 years ago

Originally Posted by jarod b

Honestly, from the start of this thread, I knew it wouldn't be easy squeezing time in for starting a business, but I took a chance anyways because I've always wanted to do this, so I don't regret it at all yet. And when Dan McCoy posted, I knew automatically that this is the path I wanted to go with because it's exactly what I wanted to do way long ago when I graduated high school and setup a future for myself.

So when you say I am unmotivated, I agree 100%. It's not normal for me to start a business for the first time ever. I can barely get by with making conversation over the phone as soon as I speak with a stranger for the first time. And setting up appointments and then working out a process is another mystery for me. But I don't care what my weaknesses are, and I don't care what my position is in life right now. So if you feel like I am running through valuable time, then I'm letting you know right now it's not.

I don't drive a car to and from work. I've never worked a job before. I live with my parents still after just turning 23 in November. I don't have friends to socialize with. Not even a girlfriend. I working at an intern and barely getting by but only because of my interest in learning. I don't speak a professional language at all. And I am growing more and more impatient with my lifestyle right about now.

I don't like my lifestyle at all, and I know I need to make changes so that's what I'm doing.

As for timing, I don't have full control over what happens between 5-6:30pm. My dad drives around town a lot and it can take him up to 90 minutes to pick me up and drop me off at home. That's nothing I have no control over. With that said, my home is never peaceful. My mom is half deaf so the TV is easily heard through the walls, and her voice is especially heard when she's talking on the phone. That makes me uncomfortable talking with a professional or client over Skype and so the best time I can talk is in the morning, or during the evening in the back room where it's quiet. And then there is the computer. I'm not the only one using it 24/7. My dad or mom might come in to do some random research or to print off paperwork. And then this thread itself. I don't know about you all, but it can take me 10-40 minutes to write a post. I've written plenty of lengthy comments on things, wrote articles, and journalizing, but I still have a hard time putting my thoughts on the screen. This thread alone eats away time. And then there is the business. I kind of created a operation checklist that I go through, but that still takes time away and I'm still wondering how I'll find time to get to projects while managing the marketing efforts.

Can you see that I am new to this? This is not normal for me. You can say I'm not good with time, but I'm clearly trying to squeeze in time for improvement and growth. And this is not an excuse. I just told you all of the challenges I could think of of from the top of my head.

So to get back to the really important point of this whole comment, I'm not one of the common thread guys you see on here. Dan has already pointed out that I have history of not taking action. But at the same time you can see that I am pasting all of my concerns and fears on this thread. I honestly feared a comment like yours would come up. But now that it's come up, I look at it a completely different way now. So I'm not "offended." I'm not mad. I'm also not wasting people's time on here. I'm taking advantage of what I can and learning from it. You can get mad all you want.

And I can't help it if I'm not a fast learner either. All my life, I've never been one -- my bros and dad were, but not me. And I don't know how to fight. I'm just learning how to cash a check from my paid intern at age 23. I've always been the child that spilled milk or juice, and still do sometimes. And I'm still learning to socialize with people in the real world. I am probably the worst candidate as you can imagine. But I am doing as much as I can think of and not allowing myself to get depressed about it. Naturally I would have copped out at the beginning of this week if I didn't care about this thread, and that is actually something I wanted to ask Dan about later on tonight after reading this thread.

Do you think people are helping because it's a pity party? People genuinely want to see you have some success, probably more than you even want it.

I think you answered everything you could but to me it just clarifies this isn't right for you. You don't need to start a business, you need to start some self improvement, work on your self esteem, confidence, and fix whatever issues have effected you in life.

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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by iAmNameLess

Do you think people are helping because it's a pity party? People genuinely want to see you have some success, probably more than you even want it.

I think you answered everything you could but to me it just clarifies this isn't right for you. You don't need to start a business, you need to start some self improvement, work on your self esteem, confidence, and fix whatever issues have effected you in life.

But doesn't confidence come with experience? So I would be gaining confidence if I am taking action, right?

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thet

9 years ago

ß

Originally Posted by jarod b

Honestly, from the start of this thread, I knew it wouldn't be easy squeezing time in for starting a business, but I took a chance anyways because I've always wanted to do this, so I don't regret it at all yet. And when Dan McCoy posted, I knew automatically that this is the path I wanted to go with because it's exactly what I wanted to do way long ago when I graduated high school and setup a future for myself.

So when you say I am unmotivated, I agree 100%. It's not normal for me to start a business for the first time ever. I can barely get by with making conversation over the phone as soon as I speak with a stranger for the first time. And setting up appointments and then working out a process is another mystery for me. But I don't care what my weaknesses are, and I don't care what my position is in life right now. So if you feel like I am running through valuable time, then I'm letting you know right now it's not.

I don't drive a car to and from work. I've never worked a job before. I live with my parents still after just turning 23 in November. I don't have friends to socialize with. Not even a girlfriend. I working at an intern and barely getting by but only because of my interest in learning. I don't speak a professional language at all. And I am growing more and more impatient with my lifestyle right about now.

I don't like my lifestyle at all, and I know I need to make changes so that's what I'm doing.

As for timing, I don't have full control over what happens between 5-6:30pm. My dad drives around town a lot and it can take him up to 90 minutes to pick me up and drop me off at home. That's nothing I have no control over. With that said, my home is never peaceful. My mom is half deaf so the TV is easily heard through the walls, and her voice is especially heard when she's talking on the phone. That makes me uncomfortable talking with a professional or client over Skype and so the best time I can talk is in the morning, or during the evening in the back room where it's quiet. And then there is the computer. I'm not the only one using it 24/7. My dad or mom might come in to do some random research or to print off paperwork. And then this thread itself. I don't know about you all, but it can take me 10-40 minutes to write a post. I've written plenty of lengthy comments on things, wrote articles, and journalizing, but I still have a hard time putting my thoughts on the screen. This thread alone eats away time. And then there is the business. I kind of created a operation checklist that I go through, but that still takes time away and I'm still wondering how I'll find time to get to projects while managing the marketing efforts.

Can you see that I am new to this? This is not normal for me. You can say I'm not good with time, but I'm clearly trying to squeeze in time for improvement and growth. And this is not an excuse. I just told you all of the challenges I could think of of from the top of my head.

So to get back to the really important point of this whole comment, I'm not one of the common thread guys you see on here. Dan has already pointed out that I have history of not taking action. But at the same time you can see that I am pasting all of my concerns and fears on this thread. I honestly feared a comment like yours would come up. But now that it's come up, I look at it a completely different way now. So I'm not "offended." I'm not mad. I'm also not wasting people's time on here. I'm taking advantage of what I can and learning from it. You can get mad all you want.

And I can't help it if I'm not a fast learner either. All my life, I've never been one — my bros and dad were, but not me. And I don't know how to fight. I'm just learning how to cash a check from my paid intern at age 23. I've always been the child that spilled milk or juice, and still do sometimes. And I'm still learning to socialize with people in the real world. I am probably the worst candidate as you can imagine. But I am doing as much as I can think of and not allowing myself to get depressed about it. Naturally I would have copped out at the beginning of this week if I didn't care about this thread, and that is actually something I wanted to ask Dan about later on tonight after reading this thread.

Read "7 habits of highly effective people".
Chapter 1 is about proactivity.

You say you don't have control while i see what you could do to improve your situation. For example, you could move. You are 23. Time to get your own place.
While you wait to get your dad to pick you up (wtf) you could call prospects on your mobile phone. If you don't have one, there are other things you can do to spend your time productive. About the noise in the house: You can buy a noise cancelling headset. I use it at work. The other line doesn't even hear me jamming on my keyboard. I know, because i asked several prospects and receptionists. Two weeks ago there where people drilling in the wall. The other side never heard this.

The thing is, you seem to lack proactivity here. You need to realise what you do control and what you don't. There are always things you can do to change your situation. I already gave you one book tip. The second i would give you is "men's search for meaning".

Good luck

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thet

9 years ago

Wisdom from one of the smartest, richest person alive.

Spend each day trying to be a little wiser than you were when you woke up. Discharge your duties faithfully and well. Step by step you get ahead, but not necessarily in fast spurts. But you build discipline by preparing for fast spurts. Slug it out one inch at a time, day by day. At the end of the day - if you live long enough - most people get what they deserve.
— Charlie Munger

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sunoy14

9 years ago

I have myself thought of outsourcing or reselling web design or seo since I run a web hosting company.Though I still think it could be possible, I have started to question a bit after reading all the posts.

Like someone else said in a previous post, there could be hurdles and delays in communication and work done. Your clients are going to ask you about the progress and if you are in a situation where you cannot contact the outsourced company, you are in big trouble. Even if you are able to contact the company, what if they are being a jerk and not responding due to work delay and such?

Highway to a bad reputation. But I still think it could be possible to do a good business that way. That said working by yourself or with a team of your own is always the best option but there are still times when things need to be outsourced

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Underground

9 years ago

Jarod, I guess I'll have to find someone else to take on this job. I wanted this done for Monday and I've been so lenient and patience I forgot to act fast enough. I told you the deadline. I haven't heard back from you and doubt I will as you'll be locked into an ongoing argument for a while with Iamnameless, most probably. But this is a more project for me and you seem to have little consideration for considering your clients situation atm.

I still think that for all the mistakes that have been made here, for you to give this a go given your confidence issues is highly respectable and a commendable.

If you ever revisit this thread looking for clarity and lessons to learn when dealing with customers, then you take away from this how you seriously need to work on your courtesy and willing to engage clients you work with and respect them.

You haven't done that here and I understand is was because your problems got to you and you got overwhelmed.

But in future, when your in clearer, more reflective mindset, realize that will get nowhere until you start putting your client first, instead of way down the pecking order of your considerations to the point you just completely ignore them.

But given the massive confidence issues you have a anxiety with dealing with people, as much a criticism here from others is valid, you have to give credit to yourself for even doing this. I've got massive respect for that.

In time you can overcome your problems and get there, trust me.

Best of luck.

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Underground

9 years ago

Actually, let me ask, because I've just read another reply and seen you have replied to 3 other people and am pissed of watching you reply to everyone else on this thread and ignore me for days on end, why have you decided to completely ignore me and act as if I don't exist? A client for your business.

What is that about? Do you how extremely rude that is?

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Underground

9 years ago

''But that's also a problem for me. I am so use to immediate results so it honestly gets demotivating not seeing any type of immediate progress that shows I'm moving forward. It's like waiting for FedEx to drop off a box at your house without knowing the delivery date. You constantly check outside to see if a box is in front of your house, but after 3 days you're losing your mind because you feel like it's taking forever. And that's how I feel about my business situation so far. So I have a question about this. How do you deal with results that take a good while before it can show itself? Or is this a ongoing problem you have to already know how to deal with?''

It's been over 10 days since I wrote out the brief. I waited another 5 days for you to get back in touch. And I've waited 5 days without a response from you. And then you go and write that's 'it's getting demotivating not get immediate results''

How in the world do expect to get results when you won't take decisive action and deal with your responsibilities? You expect them to magically happen and things to be done for you?

You wasted a good few hours of my time Jarod. I have to actually let rip on you now to impress upon the effect that your complete disregard for your clients is having and your complete misunderstanding of the way things work in that if you want to results you actually have to do the things that will make them happen.

You can't just want something and expect it to happen just because you it badly.

You completely wasted my time here and treated me like an absolute idiot as if I've deliberately thwarted your success. When actually I've bent over backwards and shown alot of patience and tried to help when anyone else I would have cussed out of it along time ago.

I don't know if you even give a shit enough for this to give you a jolt of reality and a wakeup call to start focusing on the right things, like Dan advised, and that is serving your clients and doing the work.

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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Underground

''But that's also a problem for me. I am so use to immediate results so it honestly gets demotivating not seeing any type of immediate progress that shows I'm moving forward. It's like waiting for FedEx to drop off a box at your house without knowing the delivery date. You constantly check outside to see if a box is in front of your house, but after 3 days you're losing your mind because you feel like it's taking forever. And that's how I feel about my business situation so far. So I have a question about this. How do you deal with results that take a good while before it can show itself? Or is this a ongoing problem you have to already know how to deal with?''

It's been over 10 days since I wrote out the brief. I waited another 5 days for you to get back in touch. And I've waited 5 days without a response from you. And then you go and write that's 'it's getting demotivating not get immediate results''

How in the world do expect to get results when you won't take decisive action and deal with your responsibilities? You expect them to magically happen and things to be done for you?

You wasted a good few hours of my time Jarod. I have to actually let rip on you now to impressed on the effect your complete disregard for your clients and you complete misunderstanding of the way things work in that if you want to results you actually have to do the things that will make them happen.

You can't just want them to and expect them to happen just because you want them badly.

You completely wasted my time here and treated me like and absolute idiot as if I've delberately thwarted your success. When actually I've bent over backwards and shown alot of patience and tried to help when anyone would have cussed out of it along time ago.

I don't know if you even give a shit enough for this to give you a jolt of reality and a wakeup call to start focusing on the right things, like Dan advised, and that is serving your clients and doing the work.

First I am really sorry this happened and I didn't intend for any miss-communications or anyone to feel left out of my daily routine. I think it was more of an organization problem and I lost track of our conversation starting on the 1st.

I really don't know what to say about this except that you are right that I have been putting my situations above clients, and that will be a valuable lesson to remember from now on. Sorry about this

.

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jarod b

9 years ago

Okay I see a lot of comments are coming faster than I can reply to, so I am going to start replying with questions and feedback only from now on. Sorry if I can't get to anyone fast enough. There's clearly a ton of reading to do right about now. And Underground, I read a bit of your recently post just now. I am sorry for this issue going on right now, I will make sure I get to your comment right now.

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thet

9 years ago

Lead , prospect, client

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KloudStrife

9 years ago

I feel like this Jarod guy is trolling and wasting everyone's time. Mods need to close this thread asap

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dave147

9 years ago

wow this thread has gone west

Jarod needs a strong recovery to regain the support he had I think

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thet

9 years ago

Originally Posted by dave147

wow this thread has gone west

Jarod needs a strong recovery to regain the support he had I think

Lets not get emotional and look at the facts.
Iam, who is a respected member has a hunch about Jarod. He also thinks the process Jarod is using isnt working as it should.

Underground, who is another respected member, was a prospect of Jarod. Jarod made a mistake with this prospect by not following up correctly.

I don't think this thread has gone west, since the goal of this thread was to teach Jarod business lessons.

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dave147

9 years ago

Originally Posted by thet

Lets not get emotional and look at the facts.
Iam, who is a respected member has a hunch about Jarod. He also thinks the process Jarod is using isnt working as it should.

Underground, who is another respected member, was a prospect of Jarod. Jarod made a mistake with this prospect by not following up correctly.

I don't think this thread has gone west, since the goal of this thread was to teach Jarod business lessons.

We'll see. Hopefully there'll be a recovery and it'll get back on track!

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thet 9 years ago

Originally Posted by dave147

We'll see. Hopefully there'll be a recovery and it'll get back on track!

I would be terrible if Jarod gave up. He has such an opportunity. If I had the opportunity to be coached by Dan... Jeez
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jarod b

9 years ago

I believe everyone here watching is listening to someone else more than watching the actions I'm actually following up on, and I'm telling you all for the last time. I'm not wasting anybody's time. As for underground, I sent you a message last night apologizing personally right after making another open apology to you last night on this thread. I am seriously sorry that I accidentally left you out of the process, and it was seriously unintentional. I don't know how much more I can justify myself after that.

As I told iAmNameless, I already knew it wouldn't be easy for me to squeeze in time for this, but I am making more time for this each day. At the same time, I'm also following Dan's advice. And for the record, I like everybody's advice here, but I said earlier on page 2, to Dan, that I was going to follow his advice for the most post, and that's what I've been doing if anybody remembers and have been following this thread:

If I answered his questions correctly (link), he would work with me. I did that (link).
Dan told me right away to start a For Hire thread (link). I did that right away and started writing the copy and posted the thread within 48 hours.This writing took me maybe 8 hours because I'm not a writer, but I tried anyways (link 1, link 2).
I realized I had no questionnaire to use (link), which I together on the fly and fiddled with days later. Dan gave me suggestions (link), which I applied.
Dan told me to make a spreadsheet to track my leads, and told me to also track each lead's conversation (link). I did that (image 1, image 2).
Dan told be before any of you guys that I should look at every dissatisfied client as a failure (link). That's what I've been doing if you just saw how I tried to handle the situation with Underground — my first dissatisfied client.
Dan also said that I should work on providing excellent customer service and client results, and this was the first piece of instruction if you read the thread when he said it (link). I am obviously working on that, and especially being more serious after telling you all that I'm sorry I disappeared for 2 days, which won't happen again (link). I still don't see how I'm not serious, iAmNameless.

And speaking of iAmNameless, Dan told me to follow any of his advice if he suggested anything, and that's what I've been doing — working on shortening my process while keeping up with appointments and monitoring my thread. And for the record, Dan told me to work on improving my service if I'm not working on a project, and that's what I've been doing. I even made a checklist to keep track of my daily routine with new clients and upcoming appointments. And this is my first time doing so.

I've also been giving you guys updates to keep you in the loop (update 1, update 2). And let me tell you, if you look at my update, you can see that things aren't working well for me right away. 2 clients didn't show up, then I missed an appointment with a client who didn't show up previous (how ironic), and am still following up to get on a call with the first one because we only spoke for about 15 minutes.

But I haven't ran away at all. I'm here talking with you guys for the most part, trying to fix my own problems, and I'm working with another new client as I write this (using my new process — image). As I told Underground, I didn't dodge you at all. I've been communicating with other clients. It just so happens that I hadn't realized I dropped you in the loop, and that was an organization problem on my end when I started following a checklist for keeping my pipeline together. This is a valuable lesson. I am serious when I said it just now, and just as I was when I told you last night.

Like I said in my second update, I am not the most professional, I am still learning to deal with situations like this, and I'm certain that this is unprofessional. I said that before this whole thread began going in another direction (link). I'm not trolling or dodging at all. And I told iAmNameless that this thread is time consuming and I'm not the best writer. I started writing this very post at about 9:38am after waking up from a long night of the same thing, and this one post alone hasn't stopped yet and it's 11:22am. That's practically 2 hours now that could have been used to do something better... But you guys make it seem like I am wasting people's time, when I'm not.

So I'll say it one last time, I like everybody's advice here, and I'm applying as much as I can one step at a time, but the main person I am listening to is Dan and then iAmNameless (because Dan said so). I appreciate the helpfulness from savidge, I am grateful that Dan is helping me out (and I was honest when I said he somehow knows my career goals surprising well, whether he agree or not), I am still shocked that people are seeing this thread and are supporting me by being clients, I think iAmNameless is doing a good job (although I'm not comfortable about the way he's influencing this thread), and I really thank everybody for showing support.

I don't mind being a test monkey on this thread. I'm learning business and professionalism for the first time ever, I truly believe Dan is a promising mentor more than any of you guys simply because he was the only one to ever understand my goals with very few details, and if you still believe I'm wasting time, I'm not even going to reply to certain people anymore. I think I've said it more than enough times, and if you still don't get it by now, it will be impossible for me to show you this instant and I might as well stop trying.

This is the last time I'm going to justify myself for another 2 hours. This is crazy. I've only been at this for 2 updates so far and people think I am wasting time...even after I confessed about my fears and was being honest about how I felt about this whole situation. You guys act like I'm not trying to improve myself and blame people. I never once blamed anyone or was ever specific about my life situation. Even in this moment, I haven't say anything else about it except that it would not happen anymore.

As for Underground, who I am still interested in talking to, I did not intend for you to feel like you were blamed. I don't know if you felt that way because of sympathy or human compassion either, but you are in the clear. My post was just an update on my business from my perspective and how I felt I was progressing with business in general. So please don't think I'm attacking you in any form. It's just me being honest with myself and not running away from my own fears anymore.

As I said to iAmNameless, I could have faded away from this thread already, but I'm still here and learning as I go. I'm still here tweaking my process as I find problems with them — something Dan told to me (link).

I honestly don't know what else to say at this post, so that's the end of this post. As for my business, I saw iAmNameless's post on my For Hire thread, but at the same time I'm also talking with a client on Skype still. I'm trying to do exactly what savidge said about working on projects, while dealing with marketing and customer support (http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...ml#post9780128). And that's making time for everything I can, which you see I am obviously working on by now.

And I just posted this at 11:52am. That's another 30 minutes gone.....

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thet

9 years ago

Okay. Clifnote from what I've just read: "Everybody else who wants to offer me advice, just don't. I will only listen to Dan. Oh and Iamnameless. Because I have too".

Good luck Jarod. Still hope you nail it and learn from your mistakes along the way.

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savidge4

9 years ago

If there is a failure here, the failure is in the method of communication and coaching. It is difficult at best to teach someone proper job assessment and implementation of the fulfillment process. iAm has a process, Dan has a process, UnderGround has a process, I have a process... every one here has a process. Jarod does not.

I will personally take an amount of responsibility, I as an active member and participant in this endeavor did NOT reach out to Jarod, and say Hey, give me a call and lets walk through this. To be honest as I recall Jarod posted his "questionnaire" and I never looked at it. The thinking on my end, was that maybe someone else was assisting him with it... But I never asked.

Obviously it was NOT looked over, and it should have been.

Through Jarod's rather candid updates, there was better than an indication that he was uncomfortable with the whole client communication aspect. AGAIN... I will step up and say that I should again have reached out and suggest we get on the phone and go through some of this... role playing as it were. Get him comfortable with the process, and giving points of advice.

after 5 days in after the warrior for hire posting and there still was no amount of "Work" being done... again an indication of a potential failure point. and AGAIN a failure on MY part for not reaching out. I personally KNOW BETTER... All of the negative implications were there...and I did not step in.

And I am not talking hind site 20 20 crap here... I could see it when I read it. I more than once recall thinking... well client 1 and 2 he is waiting on... what about 3 4 and 5?

As of RIGHT NOW, Jarod - you can PM me and request my number. It will be my personal number that I can be reached 24 -7. If you need assistance in talking with your clients, we can 3 way call them. and get it done. If you think you have issues with the fulfillment.. we will work your clients into MY system and I will fulfill those that are ok with the modifications in product. ( they will be getting a full wordpress site from me )

I am in NO WAY suggesting you give up and quit. I am in NO WAY suggesting that this is a way out. What I am saying is, I have your back... because your back is MY back. I assisted in getting you this far ( go back to page 1 post 7 of this thread... I was suspect even then - you didnt have a plan ) and Because I assisted in getting you here, I will assist you in completing these obligations.

Its up to you.. let me know.

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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

If there is a failure here, the failure is in the method of communication and coaching. It is difficult at best to teach someone proper job assessment and implementation of the fulfillment process. iAm has a process, Dan has a process, UnderGround has a process, I have a process... every one here has a process. Jarod does not.

I will personally take an amount of responsibility, I as an active member and participant in this endeavor did NOT reach out to Jarod, and say Hey, give me a call and lets walk through this. To be honest as I recall Jarod posted his "questionnaire" and I never looked at it. The thinking on my end, was that maybe someone else was assisting him with it... But I never asked.

Obviously it was NOT looked over, and it should have been.

Through Jarod's rather candid updates, there was better than an indication that he was uncomfortable with the whole client communication aspect. AGAIN... I will step up and say that I should again have reached out and suggest we get on the phone and go through some of this... role playing as it were. Get him comfortable with the process, and giving points of advice.

after 5 days in after the warrior for hire posting and there still was no amount of "Work" being done... again an indication of a potential failure point. and AGAIN a failure on MY part for not reaching out. I personally KNOW BETTER... All of the negative implications were there...and I did not step in.

And I am not talking hind site 20 20 crap here... I could see it when I read it. I more than once recall thinking... well client 1 and 2 he is waiting on... what about 3 4 and 5?

As of RIGHT NOW, Jarod - you can PM me and request my number. It will be my personal number that I can be reached 24 -7. If you need assistance in talking with your clients, we can 3 way call them. and get it done. If you think you have issues with the fulfillment.. we will work your clients into MY system and I will fulfill those that are ok with the modifications in product. ( they will be getting a full wordpress site from me )

I am in NO WAY suggesting you give up and quit. I am in NO WAY suggesting that this is a way out. What I am saying is, I have your back... because your back is MY back. I assisted in getting you this far ( go back to page 1 post 7 of this thread... I was suspect even then - you didnt have a plan ) and Because I assisted in getting you here, I will assist you in completing these obligations.

Its up to you.. let me know.

I PMed you my number to call, you can call me anytime

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Underground

9 years ago

''I believe everyone here watching is listening to someone else more than watching the actions I'm actually following up on, and I'm telling you all for the last time. I'm not wasting anybody's time. As for underground, I sent you a message last night apologizing personally right after making another open apology to you last night on this thread. I am seriously sorry that I accidentally left you out of the process, and it was seriously unintentional. I don't know how much more I can justify myself after that.''

What an obnoxious fool. I'll tell you that straight. And you're not going to convince anyone here you're in the right by bringing up a few plus points that are beside the point. A fool is someone who will not accept reality square on and tries to argue against fact, which is what you are doing.

I knew as soon as you started trying to justify and absolve yourself of any real responsibility with Iamnameless you were going to do anything but take responsibility in your behavior and you were just going to argue against any criticism. Words don't count. You're actions do. And how you logged off after I responded and went awol again, when I made clear if you wanted to rectify things you must reply right away and get serious.

I busted my arse for years to get to this stage and am on a very thin timeframe with no time to waste, and you treat me with nothing but contempt and foolish arrogance for really trying to encourage you here and give you chances to get some successful work under your belt.

You didn't waste my time? So the hour I spent writing out the draft, which I stayed up when I was going to bed to do promptly was actually productive. You replied and booked an appointment and hour beforehand when you had even confirmed with me time, and then went off in a sulk for 5 days, while insulting me on this thread, before you responded again with a cut and paste email.

I then got right onto sending you instructions, and even though you remembered to kept making snide indirect remarks about me on this thread you now claim ''you completely forgot''.

But you made a token apology after I had to call you out on this thread and said you'd 'like to talk' at some point, and think that makes everything alright.

I idiotically thought that meant you wanted to resolved the situation and get on top of things, but you probably just wanted to give me a sob story and justify why you did that so I'd stop being pissed off.

What winds me up here is you claiming you didn't waste my time. You just forgot that I told you I need things done for Monday coming, back on Tuesday and left me hanging on only for you to completely ignore me and my posts that you would have read here. Stop lying.

You are not cut out for this business. Simple as that. You can't see the other person as a actual person and related to them. And freelancing requires the absolute opposite attitude you have. You can't just go and be given responsibility to go and work on important projects in someone's business and then act like it's all about you and belittle and mock them.

You don't listen to instructions. You don't respect deadlines. You don't respect your potential clients or their time. You don't engage with them. You insult clients on the thread by speaking about them in a derogatory way in the third person, like a female does with bitchiness and resentment. You're lazy. Avoidant. And won't take responsibility for yourself. And are completely ungrateful.

How are you going to have a job where you have to work with others closely, form good relations, respect timeframes and be given important responsibility?

If you would have come out and said, you're right Underground, I do need to sort out my avoidance behavior and procrastination. Although this is uncomfortable, I'm going to work on that. I'm sorry for wasting your time and going missing for days on end. It's been very tough, but I learn from this, then that would have been fine.

But you come out and do this. ''As for underground''. ''Someone missed an appointment (how ironic1)''. ''I'll be ignoring certain people'', ''I have been working on my process''.

If I knew you were like this I would not have given you the time of day. I'm pissed I did.

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Underground

9 years ago

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iAmNameLess

9 years ago

Originally Posted by jarod b

But doesn't confidence come with experience? So I would be gaining confidence if I am taking action, right?

No.

Your issue isn't about confidence in what you're selling, your issue is about confidence in yourself, period.

Everyone that is successful has had incredible issues along the way, many road blocks that they had to go around. They aren't able to get to the destination they want unless they have confidence in themselves.

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Underground

9 years ago

2 clients didn't show up, then I missed an appointment with a client who didn't show up previous (how ironic), and am still following up to get on a call with the first one because we only spoke for about 15 minutes.

Jarod, you have the mindset of a spoiled little kid. You constantly make your bitterness about miss appointments known with snide remarks. Here's a dig about how ironic it is I'm complaining when I couldn't be on standby round the clock ready to take the appointment at an hours notice.

I know full well you just ignored me because I didn't manage to make the appointment where really I was expecting confirmation first of the right time before booking, but you somehow gave me an hours notice to make an appointment and he been bitching about it ever since.

You're still playing the victim. Still all these people are missing appointments, blah, blah, blah.

You had the chance to get going on mine. I just gave you instructions.There was no more meetings and formalities.

You just choose to ignore it because of childish resentment and now acting like it was an easy slip to make not to even pm the one person who had a job ready to go for you.

But you couldn't be bothered to roll your sleeves up and get to work.

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DaniMc

9 years ago

Wow a LOT was posted in the last 24 hours!

I don't have time for any proper replies right now, just got back from skiing all day and family obligations are calling.

Watching it unfold, wow. At times, I was wishing there was a pause button!

I'll come back in tomorrow probably, but in short:

It was very nice watching everyone kick Jarod's ass. It is exactly what he needs.

Jarod - don't f*cking quit! Whatever you do, you take all this energy and light a fire with it. You deserve the ass kicking. You said you are getting disgusted with your situation - that is exactly where you want to be! You can never move up in life until where you are just isn't good enough anymore.

Savidge - awesome play man! Really, watching all this, then seeing you swoop in and fight save Jarod's ass - it's inspiring! You are a good man.

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savidge4

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

It was very nice watching everyone kick Jarod's ass. It is exactly what he needs.

Jarod - don't f*cking quit! Whatever you do, you take all this energy and light a fire with it. You deserve the ass kicking. You said you are getting disgusted with your situation - that is exactly where you want to be! You can never move up in life until where you are just isn't good enough anymore.

I am going to step in here and say it was not "nice" to watch actually.. it was short of painful. As I stated in a post earlier, all of the signs, the indicators, the direct statements now that I go back and look at it clearly point to his floundering.

What have come out as excuses where as I see it now, a mask to the reality of Jarod honestly not knowing what he was doing. And it is for this, that I took responsibility for the situation, and it is for this, that I believe in an hour phone call and a couple hours back and forth texting the situation has been corrected.

He simply didn't know what questions to ask to get started. He was on this path of long and drawn out.. that ultimately was not going anywhere. WE created that path... WE said hey post this thing and move towards your goals... and WE left it at that. WE focused on motivation.. which btw I can tell you now, is NOT even an underlying issue.

WE left out the most fundament elements of business... and that being the process. He can without question write a for Hire Post. I can tell you right now with the experience I had with Jarod today in correcting his pre job questionnaire form... I would text him changes and seriously in 2 minutes time he was responding "Done" There will be no issues with his fulfilling orders. the ISSUE.. was what happens between those two points.

I honestly was half expecting the worst.. and again seriously, only saw the best. Jarod simply needed a little nudge in the right direction.

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

Savidge - awesome play man! Really, watching all this, then seeing you swoop in and fight save Jarod's ass - it's inspiring! You are a good man.

First of all thank you for the kind words. Part of the reason I have hung out and participated in this community ( offline forum ) is the fact that this board amongst all the others IS community. We all clearly have our Strengths, and we clearly have our weakness'. Its the mutual sharing, teaching and learning that happens here that draws me.

The specific reason I stepped in, is simple. If any ONE of us fail... WE all fail. I don't know about the rest of you... but failure is not an option in my reality. Failure because you don't know how, and you are surrounded by people that do, is not one mans failure, it is the failure of all those around him.

I may have a real nice degree. I may have a real nice house. I may have a lot of success, but to the core I am a redneck. Family and friends are the true base in my personal life, and I will protect THAT above and beyond anything else.

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jarod b

9 years ago

Update:
It's been a heavy day. I was going to go to sleep at 11 last night and wake up at same old time, but I woke up late this morning. In the meanwhile a new client of mine was on Skype and we finally got a chance to talk about his project, which I went over and did a quick mockup of. Right now I'm waiting on his feedback to see if the project is going in the right direction. As for my other clients, I'm still waiting on the online marketer to reply for another meeting.

Also I tightened up my process a yesterday and used it on the current client I'm dealing with. It seems to be going a lot smoother than the previous process. Thanks to Savidge for the walkthrough

.

At this point I'm going to see what else I can do while I wait on the client's feedback and get their text and images from them. I honestly don't know what else though since nobody hasn't been replying to my thread.

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Underground

9 years ago

Originally Posted by jarod b

Update:
It's been a heavy day. I was going to go to sleep at 11 last night and wake up at same old time, but I woke up late this morning. In the meanwhile a new client of mine was on Skype and we finally got a chance to talk about his project, which I went over and did a quick mockup of. Right now I'm waiting on his feedback to see if the project is going in the right direction. As for my other clients, I'm still waiting on the online marketer to reply for another meeting.

Also I tightened up my process a yesterday and used it on the current client I'm dealing with. It seems to be going a lot smoother than the previous process. Thanks to Savidge for the walkthrough

.

At this point I'm going to see what else I can do while I wait on the client's feedback and get their text and images from them. I honestly don't know what else though since nobody hasn't been replying to my thread.

Well done. And good luck.

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kirbymarketingconcierge

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Underground

Well done. And good luck.

This is too funny.

Just complaining to myself, how some members have such long reply's.

then Underground, undermines my gripe with this!

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DaniMc

9 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

I am going to step in here and say it was not "nice" to watch actually.. it was short of painful. As I stated in a post earlier, all of the signs, the indicators, the direct statements now that I go back and look at it clearly point to his floundering.

What have come out as excuses where as I see it now, a mask to the reality of Jarod honestly not knowing what he was doing. And it is for this, that I took responsibility for the situation, and it is for this, that I believe in an hour phone call and a couple hours back and forth texting the situation has been corrected.

He simply didn't know what questions to ask to get started. He was on this path of long and drawn out.. that ultimately was not going anywhere. WE created that path... WE said hey post this thing and move towards your goals... and WE left it at that. WE focused on motivation.. which btw I can tell you now, is NOT even an underlying issue.

WE left out the most fundament elements of business... and that being the process. He can without question write a for Hire Post. I can tell you right now with the experience I had with Jarod today in correcting his pre job questionnaire form... I would text him changes and seriously in 2 minutes time he was responding "Done" There will be no issues with his fulfilling orders. the ISSUE.. was what happens between those two points.

I honestly was half expecting the worst.. and again seriously, only saw the best. Jarod simply needed a little nudge in the right direction.

First of all thank you for the kind words. Part of the reason I have hung out and participated in this community ( offline forum ) is the fact that this board amongst all the others IS community. We all clearly have our Strengths, and we clearly have our weakness'. Its the mutual sharing, teaching and learning that happens here that draws me.

The specific reason I stepped in, is simple. If any ONE of us fail... WE all fail. I don't know about the rest of you... but failure is not an option in my reality. Failure because you don't know how, and you are surrounded by people that do, is not one mans failure, it is the failure of all those around him.

I may have a real nice degree. I may have a real nice house. I may have a lot of success, but to the core I am a redneck. Family and friends are the true base in my personal life, and I will protect THAT above and beyond anything else.

See - I kind of disagree with most of what you say here, though I completely understand the sentiment.

I experienced almost the exact same thing as Jarod and I kind of look back at it with fondness - a kind of nostalgia. It was one of the greatest turning points of my career.

It's been quite a few years now, but I had several clients who I just didn't know how to serve correctly, and I had taken their money! They were quite angry.

I ended up in the office of one of them and he looked at me and said "You just wasted a month of my time and I gave you $5,000 and saw absolutely nothing from it. I am really offended and insulted, and I will never do any business with you again."

That moment hit me like a brick in the face. I realized just how important this stuff is. I realized it isn't a game. I realized I needed to step up in a BIG way if I was going to be a success.

That year, I read over 50 books and took several courses. I stopped taking clients or making promises unless I absolutely knew that I could meet them. My standards went way up.

I did what I instructed Jarod to do - I picked a simple service that I knew how to do, and stuck to it. Over time, I added to it and became more successful. I failed a lot. I mean, a lot. I literally shed tears at my desk on more than one occasion, and felt like much less than a man. I had NO process. I had NO experience. I had NO real help. Not even on a web forum.

Those formative experiences made such an impact, that a great deal of who I am today rests on them.

I also had zero process. I had zero help. I didn't know anyone personally who had a business of their own who could mentor me. I didn't have someone like savidge to come in and save my bacon (though it would have been nice).

Since the beginning of this, I knew Jarod was going to get beat up. I knew he was going to struggle. I led him to that point in a way that would do the least damage to him as possible.

He started this thread talking about starting an agency selling all sorts of marketing. I could have shown him how to get clients and take money. I could have told him to build a list, who to call, where to network, how to take payment etc, etc, etc....THAT would have been REALLY tough for him. That is what I went through and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

But here - Jarod hasn't been harmed at all. He has been helped. He hasn't destroyed his reputation in his local community. He hasn't taken payment from people who are going to sue him.

Instead - he offered a free product, and fell down when the stakes for him were very, very low. His ego took a beating in a way that did no real world, external damage to him. I personally think it is necessary.

Someone said earlier in this thread that I was taking Jarod through a process - and that is exactly what I was doing. He needed this. I believe everyone does.

Last year I read over 100 books. I worked 80 hours a week. I do believe there is still a lack of sufficient motivation from Jarod. Not because he is lazy, I don't think he is.

I just believe he hasn't really learned how to work yet. He hasn't learned how to truly FOCUS and push to a result 100%. Diamonds are made under pressure.

Originally Posted by jarod b

Update:
It's been a heavy day. I was going to go to sleep at 11 last night and wake up at same old time, but I woke up late this morning. In the meanwhile a new client of mine was on Skype and we finally got a chance to talk about his project, which I went over and did a quick mockup of. Right now I'm waiting on his feedback to see if the project is going in the right direction. As for my other clients, I'm still waiting on the online marketer to reply for another meeting.

Also I tightened up my process a yesterday and used it on the current client I'm dealing with. It seems to be going a lot smoother than the previous process. Thanks to Savidge for the walkthrough

.

At this point I'm going to see what else I can do while I wait on the client's feedback and get their text and images from them. I honestly don't know what else though since nobody hasn't been replying to my thread.

You are fortunate to have savidge help you. I started just like you, and over the last three years have now mentored dozens of entrepreneurs through exactly what you are experiencing. They have sold millions. They have raised VC money. Some have failed. Some have succeeded.

If you will succeed in any business - you gotta know that this stuff is hard, just as I expressed at the beginning of this thread. Whether or not you make it, is completely up to you as an individual.

I said it earlier - this is the Hero's Journey - where do you think you are in the graphic linked below?

Monomyth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by Underground

Reality-based feed-back was needed here. As harsh as it was. Anything less would have been to let someone continue on a dangerous road.

You can't leave someone in a dangerous place of delusion and not attempt to ensure they quickly snap out of that any way you can. The full gravitas of the situation needed to be made clear, in a way that would happen if he went out and started getting paying clients and was treating them with such contempt. It had to escalate to a certain point for the full implications to be made clear.

...

You can have a great coach, a great process, great talent, but if you have the wrong personality and can't care and respect a client's business and project like it was your own, then you're going to have a career where you cause people a lot of stress, misery and lost time and never be hired long-term or advance much at all.

I am absolute resolute in making sure I get results for clients and I fully respect their business. I saw Dan share similar sentiments months back and saw he too was one of the rare people who insist on that. I know Savidge insists on providing quality.

And I'm glad this situation has been dealt with the way it has, and Jarod will continue to get the advice he needs.

Getting started was the absolute best thing he could do, as much in need of improvement as any first attempt is.

Things just so happened to have played out so far that the essential feedback needed to be delivered in completely uncompromising terms so the correct and vital adjustments could be made.

You have done Jarod a HUGE service. You and Nathan and anyone else who kicked his ass here. He will, never, ever forget it.

I still think about the guy who laid into me, face to face, and made me feel like a dog. I felt horrible. I still see his face and it pushes me to excellence.

That is why I said I was amused. This is what coaching is all about. In boxing, the best trainers push their fighters to fight fights that will hurt them. That they probably will not win. Because they know it will work wonders for their motivation and personal standards.

I am sorry for any inconvenience you experience, and am glad that it is getting worked out. Not to poke a stick at you - but trusting a client project to a new freelancer, with no experience, on a free project, was something I would have advised you against. I am sure you have been thinking the same thing over this weekend. Before you hire anyone to do a job for you, that will effect your clients, your revenue, or your business - you need to vet them. You need to make sure there is no serious time pressure. You need to make sure that if they don't deliver, it will not hurt your business.

Several years back I made a post here about hiring TWO freelancers to do the same projects. That is exactly what I did back then. I priced so that I could hire two freelancers, and the total cost for labor stayed below 30% of the project. Then, if (when) one of them failed - my client still got what they needed. Only after I had used someone several times and KNEW they would deliver, did I trust them. Even then, I was still always ready to fire them and use someone else.

Perhaps this feedback from me will make you angry. You were obviously very angry at Jarod, and you had a right to be. At the same time, please don't miss the opportunity to analyze YOUR choices that brought the situation about.

You have written about several contractors who have left you high and dry and messed up your projects. Why is this a recurring theme? What is it about your process, your choices, and the way you hire, that is creating this situation for you? There is a pattern here, so there is obviously a problem.

If you solve the problem, you will see a big growth in your business, until you hit the next big problem. Right now it seems your hiring practice is one of your biggest limiting factors. Reading up on the Theory of Constraints might be useful for you.

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thet

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

See - I kind of disagree with most of what you say here, though I completely understand the sentiment.

I experienced almost the exact same thing as Jarod and I kind of look back at it with fondness - a kind of nostalgia. It was one of the greatest turning points of my career.

It's been quite a few years now, but I had several clients who I just didn't know how to serve correctly, and I had taken their money! They were quite angry.

I ended up in the office of one of them and he looked at me and said "You just wasted a month of my time and I gave you $5,000 and saw absolutely nothing from it. I am really offended and insulted, and I will never do any business with you again."

That moment hit me like a brick in the face. I realized just how important this stuff is. I realized it isn't a game. I realized I needed to step up in a BIG way if I was going to be a success.

That year, I read over 50 books and took several courses. I stopped taking clients or making promises unless I absolutely knew that I could meet them. My standards went way up.

I did what I instructed Jarod to do - I picked a simple service that I knew how to do, and stuck to it. Over time, I added to it and became more successful. I failed a lot. I mean, a lot. I literally shed tears at my desk on more than one occasion, and felt like much less than a man. I had NO process. I had NO experience. I had NO real help. Not even on a web forum.

Those formative experiences made such an impact, that a great deal of who I am today rests on them.

I also had zero process. I had zero help. I didn't know anyone personally who had a business of their own who could mentor me. I didn't have someone like savidge to come in and save my bacon (though it would have been nice).

Since the beginning of this, I knew Jarod was going to get beat up. I knew he was going to struggle. I led him to that point in a way that would do the least damage to him as possible.

He started this thread talking about starting an agency selling all sorts of marketing. I could have shown him how to get clients and take money. I could have told him to build a list, who to call, where to network, how to take payment etc, etc, etc....THAT would have been REALLY tough for him. That is what I went through and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

But here - Jarod hasn't been harmed at all. He has been helped. He hasn't destroyed his reputation in his local community. He hasn't taken payment from people who are going to sue him.

Instead - he offered a free product, and fell down when the stakes for him were very, very low. His ego took a beating in a way that did no real world, external damage to him. I personally think it is necessary.

Someone said earlier in this thread that I was taking Jarod through a process - and that is exactly what I was doing. He needed this. I believe everyone does.

Last year I read over 100 books. I worked 80 hours a week. I do believe there is still a lack of sufficient motivation from Jarod. Not because he is lazy, I don't think he is.

I just believe he hasn't really learned how to work yet. He hasn't learned how to truly FOCUS and push to a result 100%. Diamonds are made under pressure.

You are fortunate to have savidge help you. I started just like you, and over the last three years have now mentored dozens of entrepreneurs through exactly what you are experiencing. They have sold millions. They have raised VC money. Some have failed. Some have succeeded.

If you will succeed in any business - you gotta know that this stuff is hard, just as I expressed at the beginning of this thread. Whether or not you make it, is completely up to you as an individual.

I said it earlier - this is the Hero's Journey - where do you think you are in the graphic linked below?

Monomyth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You have done Jarod a HUGE service. You and Nathan and anyone else who kicked his ass here. He will, never, ever forget it.

I still think about the guy who laid into me, face to face, and made me feel like a dog. I felt horrible. I still see his face and it pushes me to excellence.

That is why I said I was amused. This is what coaching is all about. In boxing, the best trainers push their fighters to fight fights that will hurt them. That they probably will not win. Because they know it will work wonders for their motivation and personal standards.

I am sorry for any inconvenience you experience, and am glad that it is getting worked out. Not to poke a stick at you - but trusting a client project to a new freelancer, with no experience, on a free project, was something I would have advised you against. I am sure you have been thinking the same thing over this weekend. Before you hire anyone to do a job for you, that will effect your clients, your revenue, or your business - you need to vet them. You need to make sure there is no serious time pressure. You need to make sure that if they don't deliver, it will not hurt your business.

Several years back I made a post here about hiring TWO freelancers to do the same projects. That is exactly what I did back then. I priced so that I could hire two freelancers, and the total cost for labor stayed below 30% of the project. Then, if (when) one of them failed - my client still got what they needed. Only after I had used someone several times and KNEW they would deliver, did I trust them. Even then, I was still always ready to fire them and use someone else.

Perhaps this feedback from me will make you angry. You were obviously very angry at Jarod, and you had a right to be. At the same time, please don't miss the opportunity to analyze YOUR choices that brought the situation about.

You have written about several contractors who have left you high and dry and messed up your projects. Why is this a recurring theme? What is it about your process, your choices, and the way you hire, that is creating this situation for you? There is a pattern here, so there is obviously a problem.

If you solve the problem, you will see a big growth in your business, until you hit the next big problem. Right now it seems your hiring practice is one of your biggest limiting factors. Reading up on the Theory of Constraints might be useful for you.

The Hard Thing About Hard Things: Building a...

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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

I just believe he hasn't really learned how to work yet. He hasn't learned how to truly FOCUS and push to a result 100%. Diamonds are made under pressure.

It's interesting you say that. I tried to convey that exact message in detail to everyone when I made a reply a few replies back. Nobody saw what I was saying and considered me to be spoiled and lazy. I honestly felt from thereon I couldn't prove anything anymore and began considering if I should stop replying -- especially when talking to iAmNameless and Underground. Luckily Savidge stepped in, otherwise I don't know what else would have happened when I would have stopped replying.

But more than any point I want to get across, it's that you understand me more than anybody on here. At least you can predict it at least, you've been extremely on point so far about what I need to do and go through, and for that reason I'm not rebutting at all. I agree and I'm still serious.

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

You are fortunate to have savidge help you. I started just like you, and over the last three years have now mentored dozens of entrepreneurs through exactly what you are experiencing. They have sold millions. They have raised VC money. Some have failed. Some have succeeded.

If you will succeed in any business - you gotta know that this stuff is hard, just as I expressed at the beginning of this thread. Whether or not you make it, is completely up to you as an individual.

I said it earlier - this is the Hero's Journey - where do you think you are in the graphic linked below?

Monomyth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Honestly I don't know about the death and rebirth part (lmao), but I am between atonement and challenge & temptation. But I am realizing that when I share my fears and assumptions I get really great feedback that helps me out of the challenge & temptation spot a lot... Only problem is I have to be extremely clear about how I explain myself in case clients are spectating and might take things personally. As a matter of fact, when I talk about client situations from now on, I'll start throwing in disclaimer comments to clarify my intentions.

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

You have done Jarod a HUGE service. You and Nathan and anyone else who kicked his ass here. He will, never, ever forget it.

I still think about the guy who laid into me, face to face, and made me feel like a dog. I felt horrible. I still see his face and it pushes me to excellence.

That is why I said I was amused. This is what coaching is all about. In boxing, the best trainers push their fighters to fight fights that will hurt them. That they probably will not win. Because they know it will work wonders for their motivation and personal standards.

I am sorry for any inconvenience you experience, and am glad that it is getting worked out. Not to poke a stick at you - but trusting a client project to a new freelancer, with no experience, on a free project, was something I would have advised you against. I am sure you have been thinking the same thing over this weekend. Before you hire anyone to do a job for you, that will effect your clients, your revenue, or your business - you need to vet them. You need to make sure there is no serious time pressure. You need to make sure that if they don't deliver, it will not hurt your business.

Several years back I made a post here about hiring TWO freelancers to do the same projects. That is exactly what I did back then. I priced so that I could hire two freelancers, and the total cost for labor stayed below 30% of the project. Then, if (when) one of them failed - my client still got what they needed. Only after I had used someone several times and KNEW they would deliver, did I trust them. Even then, I was still always ready to fire them and use someone else.

Perhaps this feedback from me will make you angry. You were obviously very angry at Jarod, and you had a right to be. At the same time, please don't miss the opportunity to analyze YOUR choices that brought the situation about.

You have written about several contractors who have left you high and dry and messed up your projects. Why is this a recurring theme? What is it about your process, your choices, and the way you hire, that is creating this situation for you? There is a pattern here, so there is obviously a problem.

If you solve the problem, you will see a big growth in your business, until you hit the next big problem. Right now it seems your hiring practice is one of your biggest limiting factors. Reading up on the Theory of Constraints might be useful for you.

Just to be clear with Nathan and Underground, I do appreciate the situation you brought up for me, and I'm not complaining at all. But in the end, I'm still to this process, still learning the reality of the time I have for myself, and I'm still focused on improving my service and fulfillment as Dan suggested (do CTRL + F and copy and paste in "Focus on excellent service").

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savidge4 9 years ago
From the Outside Looking In at the World of Jarod

Over the last 2 days that I have communicated with Jarod, I have gotten a better idea of what exactly he does, and how he does it. Isolated some "Basic" information he was missing that allows him to move forward with his process.

When I say basic... we were talking basic layout stuff. Header / Footer Full Width, Left / Right Sidebar with header footer, or Parallax. Kind of hard to start if you don't know a basic layout. On the surface you want to say "Are you kidding me?" More so today, than yesterday I got a better idea of what Jarod does and how.

The first thing I realized.. Jarod says he his a "Graphic Artist". Sure he has an education in Graphic Arts, and is currently Interning as such. The reality... whether he knows it or not... He may know how to "design" stuff, but he is a CODER. As the conversations and passing information back and forth progressed, I learned he is NOT coding HTML and CSS. He is coding PHP.

To give those of you that may not get what that means. You go into WordPress and you hit the dashboard, go into the menu section and create a button. easy easy. Wordpress does all the work for you and makes the button flash when you pass your mouse over it, and press it. HE IS CODING THAT. as in:
HTML Code:

<div class="navbar navbar-inverse navbar-fixed-top"> <div class="navbar-inner"> <div class="container"> <a class="btn btn-navbar" data-toggle="collapse" data-target=".nav-collapse"> <span class="icon-bar"></span> <span class="icon-bar"></span> <span class="icon-bar"></span> </a> <a class="brand" href="#">Project name</a> <div class="nav-collapse collapse"> <ul class="nav"> </ul> </div> </div> </div> </div>
and then to implement the actual action there is a bit of PHP that enables the action:

PHP Code:

<ul class="nav"> <?php wp_list_pages(array('title_li' => '')); ?> </ul>

AND THEN.. he is going in and associating the linking. Now before anyone jumps down my throat. The above examples are actually a step beyond what Jarod does. I understand that. Until I can see a working example of his work, I have never programmed at the level he is at.

SO Jarod's Thinking in developing a "Process" was set by the ideals of Form Follows Function. ( this clearly is a CODERS thought process ) and we twisted it around just enough that he now has a "Form" to add "Function" to.

Jarod and I had a conversation today about WordPress. He has not really ever played with it.. he doesn't get it. Of course he doesn't.. everything is already done for you. haha.

So I have determined over the course of the last 2 days that Jarod's Pricing is way off. This is not $49 a page programming, let alone designing. He is literally 1 programming step off of developing THEMES. That 1 programming step is creating page templates. So all of that early on concern in regards to end user usability can EASILY be corrected.

Have I mentioned yet that Jarod uses Bootstrap as his programming platform?

As of right now, it has been my better than suggestion to complete the work he has, within the methods he is currently using. Once this initial process is complete, we need to step back, and take a look at what exactly moving forward looks like.

Hope that gives you all a better idea of what has been going on.
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- kirbymarketingconcierge 9 years ago
  
  Thanks Jarod for responding.
  
  the important thing is you screwed up and we can have a good laugh
  
  from outside looking in, and a
  
  "customer service/quality control" look :
  
  We could of got here a lot sooner.
  
  I learned to take the lead when I screw up, wrong, or am incompetent, by "fessing up", apologizing, and then focus on trying to solve an issue or firing myself, ASAP.
  
  "There are only 2 people who can manage YOU.
  
  You or someone else"
  
  upward on onward from here!!!
  
  my 2 cents
  
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Underground

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

You have done Jarod a HUGE service. You and Nathan and anyone else who kicked his ass here. He will, never, ever forget it.

I still think about the guy who laid into me, face to face, and made me feel like a dog. I felt horrible. I still see his face and it pushes me to excellence.

That is why I said I was amused. This is what coaching is all about. In boxing, the best trainers push their fighters to fight fights that will hurt them. That they probably will not win. Because they know it will work wonders for their motivation and personal standards.

I am sorry for any inconvenience you experience, and am glad that it is getting worked out. Not to poke a stick at you - but trusting a client project to a new freelancer, with no experience, on a free project, was something I would have advised you against. I am sure you have been thinking the same thing over this weekend. Before you hire anyone to do a job for you, that will effect your clients, your revenue, or your business - you need to vet them. You need to make sure there is no serious time pressure. You need to make sure that if they don't deliver, it will not hurt your business.

Several years back I made a post here about hiring TWO freelancers to do the same projects. That is exactly what I did back then. I priced so that I could hire two freelancers, and the total cost for labor stayed below 30% of the project. Then, if (when) one of them failed - my client still got what they needed. Only after I had used someone several times and KNEW they would deliver, did I trust them. Even then, I was still always ready to fire them and use someone else.

Perhaps this feedback from me will make you angry. You were obviously very angry at Jarod, and you had a right to be. At the same time, please don't miss the opportunity to analyze YOUR choices that brought the situation about.

You have written about several contractors who have left you high and dry and messed up your projects. Why is this a recurring theme? What is it about your process, your choices, and the way you hire, that is creating this situation for you? There is a pattern here, so there is obviously a problem.

If you solve the problem, you will see a big growth in your business, until you hit the next big problem. Right now it seems your hiring practice is one of your biggest limiting factors. Reading up on the Theory of Constraints might be useful for you.

I can definitely relate to that story. Thankfully I never had dressing down like that, but when I wasn't getting the results I wanted for clients and couldn't find the solution that was it, I stopped trading until I could walk into any business and get them excellent results from their marketing and promotion.

I went with Jarod because of the strength of his portfolio. He clearly has the skills I need for the job. And to be honest I hammed-up the importance of the deadline, as it was to meet and idealized deadline that would have give me a couple of days headstart on building my social networks and not a critical absolute must meet deadline. But my role was to be the asshole client and I couldn't be half-cocked with it.

I've never seen someone though prove people wrong so quickly as Jarod with his response to just get going.

I hope it's one of those lessons you learn automatically, sublimate it, and make the adjustment in attitude naturally as you go along, which he's putting the focus on following your advice so that's not a problem once he continues to do that and become more and more of an accomplished professional.

With the hiring thing, it seems like you think I have a problem in this area? Whatever gave you that impression?

Not angry and appreciate the feedback. It's unfortunately a recurring theme due to circumstance. When I'm in the pre-launch stage and all the money is coming out of my start-up capital and I have 100 other tasks, I have to nickel and dime it and put in bids at the lowest end, where as if they are doing work for clients rather than just for me, I'd pay over the odds and put them through a rigorous pre-hiring process and get them fully checked out to find only the top talent.

I realize how vital that is.

Since I can't run these people through a long elaborate hire process, and they can be great bullshitters, I realize that is what I can expect at the lower end. It's hit and miss. A gamble. Sometimes I find decent people I want to keep on. Alot of the time I get shafted.

Price and lack of time to properly vet and hire for small one-off jobs.

I'm about to get real serious on this front. I've been through some great courses on freelancing and picked of some good stuff to improve my process.

I'll be also my own stable of freelancers, so like with your example of having 2 on hand for the job I'll be able to do that. A tool like this is very handy for that:

PHP Scripts - FreeLance Plus Project Management System | CodeCanyon

And thanks for the apology. I really did not mean the bit about Jarod at the end about wishing I didn't take him on, etc and he didn't have the personality (it's about attitude anyway which is completely malleable). That was all part of the thing about laying down the gauntlet so he could then rise to it and prove the doubters wrong.

He did that exceptionally quick, lol. I never doubted he would, just maybe not as quickly to roll on like that with another client. Like you said, he's a badass for doing this. And my true words on the thread are the ones where I've pointed out how much I respect what he has done.

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kirbymarketingconcierge 9 years ago

all right.

some good teachable moments. IMO

even ones, where people get angry, upset, look bad, etc..,

but come back around, handle business risks, time and money lost,

and try to go forward.
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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Underground

I can definitely relate to that story. Thankfully I never had dressing down like that, but when I wasn't getting the results I wanted for clients and couldn't find the solution that was it, I stopped trading until I could walk into any business and get them excellent results from their marketing and promotion.

I went with Jarod because of the strength of his portfolio. He clearly has the skills I need for the job. And to be honest I hammed-up the importance of the deadline, as it was to meet and idealized deadline that would have give me a couple of days headstart on building my social networks and not a critical absolute must meet deadline. But my role was to be the asshole client and I couldn't be half-cocked with it.

I've never seen someone though prove people wrong so quickly as Jarod with his response to just get going.

I hope it's one of those lessons you learn automatically, sublimate it, and make the adjustment in attitude naturally as you go along, which he's putting the focus on following your advice so that's not a problem once he continues to do that and become more and more of an accomplished professional.

With the hiring thing, it seems like you think I have a problem in this area? Whatever gave you that impression?

Not angry and appreciate the feedback. It's unfortunately a recurring theme due to circumstance. When I'm in the pre-launch stage and all the money is coming out of my start-up capital and I have 100 other tasks, I have to nickel and dime it and put in bids at the lowest end, where as if they are doing work for clients rather than just for me, I'd pay over the odds and put them through a rigorous pre-hiring process and get them fully checked out to find only the top talent.

I realize how vital that is.

Since I can't run these people through a long elaborate hire process, and they can be great bullshitters, I realize that is what I can expect at the lower end. It's hit and miss. A gamble. Sometimes I find decent people I want to keep on. Alot of the time I get shafted.

Price and lack of time to properly vet and hire for small one-off jobs.

I'm about to get real serious on this front. I've been through some great courses on freelancing and picked of some good stuff to improve my process.

I'll be also my own stable of freelancers, so like with your example of having 2 on hand for the job I'll be able to do that. A tool like this is very handy for that:

PHP Scripts - FreeLance Plus Project Management System | CodeCanyon

And thanks for the apology. I really did not mean the bit about Jarod at the end about wishing I didn't take him on, etc and he didn't have the personality (it's about attitude anyway which is completely malleable). That was all part of the thing about laying down the gauntlet so he could then rise to it and prove the doubters wrong.

He did that exceptionally quick, lol. I never doubted he would, just maybe not as quickly to roll on like that with another client. Like you said, he's a badass for doing this. And my true words on the thread are the ones where I've pointed out how much I respect what he has done.

Thanks for the awesome words

. Maybe I am not as passionate as I should be, but web design is something I definitely like. It's just that I am not socially excellent with people like you guys probably are. But even after that fact I am still willing to move forward the best way I can, and I'm willing to go through the trial and errors ahead of me.

By the way, if you ever feel open, I am always (and still is) open to working with you again. I know I am not the best at offering a website service, but I would still like to do work with you, and I think it would be an even better to get to know you and your work.

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iAmNameLess

9 years ago

Originally Posted by jarod b

Thanks for the awesome words

. Maybe I am not as passionate as I should be, but web design is something I definitely like. It's just that I am not socially excellent with people like you guys probably are. But even after that fact I am still willing to move forward the best way I can, and I'm willing to go through the trial and errors ahead of me.

Maybe you actually are passionate about web design but less passionate about sales, marketing, processes, and support? Is that the problem? If that's the problem then it's going to be hard to overcome. Maybe you would be better fit to contact design companies and see if they can outsource some work to you, or even SEO companies that have a client that needs more search engine friendly design.

Something you should think about... and maybe once you become more experienced, and fully develop your social skills and overcome awkwardness then you can move on.

I know I gave you a hard time but I respect that you want to continue on.

I don't think many people here are socially excellent. I know I'm not, you just learn to adjust.

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thet

9 years ago

Originally Posted by iAmNameLess

Maybe you actually are passionate about web design but less passionate about sales, marketing, processes, and support? Is that the problem? If that's the problem then it's going to be hard to overcome. Maybe you would be better fit to contact design companies and see if they can outsource some work to you, or even SEO companies that have a client that needs more search engine friendly design.

Something you should think about... and maybe once you become more experienced, and fully develop your social skills and overcome awkwardness then you can move on.

I know I gave you a hard time but I respect that you want to continue on.

I don't think many people here are socially excellent. I know I'm not, you just learn to adjust.

Blaming it on passion would be a bit of an easy way out, wouldn't it?

I am not passionate about sales, I do it anyway. Not to pad myself on the back, just saying that if I had not looked for passion year after year I might be a lot further down the road now. Giving advice on this forum, instead of asking.

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iAmNameLess

9 years ago

Originally Posted by thet

Blaming it on passion would be a bit of an easy way out, wouldn't it?

I am not passionate about sales, I do it anyway. Not to pad myself on the back, just saying that if I had not looked for passion year after year I might be a lot further down the road now. Giving advice on this forum, instead of asking.

True, and good point. I guess passion was the wrong word choice. I guess the proper choice would be that he's much more developed in design than he is the other areas, so for faster results it may make more sense to focus on the areas of strength instead of marginally improving the areas of weakness.

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thet

9 years ago

Originally Posted by iAmNameLess

True, and good point. I guess passion was the wrong word choice. I guess the proper choice would be that he's much more developed in design than he is the other areas, so for faster results it may make more sense to focus on the areas of strength instead of marginally improving the areas of weakness.

Yes. Warren Buffet calls this his circle of competence.
He sticks to what he knows, and keeps expanding in that area.

The idea to build on your strengths, because your weaknesses will take to long to become awesome enough to dominate your market.

Talent is overrated, but it does give you a headstart.

The saying "Hard work beats talent, when talent isn't working hard" is easily debunked with "but what if talent IS working hard"?

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Underground

9 years ago

Reality-based feed-back was needed here. As harsh as it was. Anything less would have been to let someone continue on a dangerous road.

You can't leave someone in a dangerous place of delusion and not attempt to ensure they quickly snap out of that any way you can. The full gravitas of the situation needed to be made clear, in a way that would happen if he went out and started getting paying clients and was treating them with such contempt. It had to escalate to a certain point for the full implications to be made clear.

In recent months I've had one guy take a month on a site and moved at an absolute snails pace, delays everywhere, but I was so busy at the time and couldn't hire someone else I kept giving him chances. I fired him, learned to do the job myself in a few hours and had more done in a day then he had the whole month. I literal did and built the whole site in days when he'd barely finished a page.

I hired another guy who told me an 8 page site would be done in a certain time frame. He half done the first page by the time the deadline had passed so I asked for a refund, which he refused. And tried to make a case he was nearly finished (he really thought this in his mind, he wasn't being dishonest just scarily deluded), and I did that to cheat him out of money. There was a massive back and forth on a freelance site with this guy of vehement, abusive argument and drivel, excuses and delusion, and this seems to be common with a lot of the ones who should not be allowed to set themselves up as a freelancer.

Another guy clearly did not know what he was doing when working on a task and I could see that and closed the job, and he went and trashed my site. After wasting days going back and forth with the guy giving me all the promises and convincing me he could do the job well as I wanted. So most of the week gone where you've been sitting there on skype waiting hand and foot on the freelancer to ensure they have everything and you can give prompt feedback, not to mention all the time wasted in the pre hire stage explaining the job. Only to get nowhere and have the site completely wrecked out of spite.

Another from here started a web customization job, and then in the middle of it tried to say he was not going to make it compatible on all browsers as that would be too much work, even though he'd agreed to that and then trolled and harassed me on here with sickening abuse, because I refused to go along with his stunt and let him extort me for more money. He was a completely abusive basket case

These are just a few of the characters I've worked with who were just completely and utterly deluded and outright refused to realize they were any way in the wrong. I've been shocked and sickened by the kind of people who have done everything right to look like a freelancer on the outside. A great cv, good portfolio, great persuasion skills, know how to make it look like they know what they are doing. When really you really, literally could learn it yourself faster than these so-called professionals.

And their personalities and psychological make-up was such that they are a liability to anyone.

I was not going to see Jarod be able to pick up habits where he holds clients in such contempt like these guys. I think it was important for me to atleast attempt to burst they dangerous bubble he seemed to be in where he was not willing to admit he'd wasted anyone's time.

No way would I be happy not doing what I thought was necessary for his long term benefit. I'd tried to be nice and constructive in feedback and it didn't work. But the feedback was certainly not for my own self-gratification of simply tearing someone down because I was pissed off.

The above situations were nightmares. I easily wasted 3 months of last year on these people an got nowhere and had massive stress.

You can have a great coach, a great process, great talent, but if you have the wrong personality and can't care and respect a client's business and project like it was your own, then you're going to have a career where you cause people a lot of stress, misery and lost time and never be hired long-term or advance much at all.

I am absolute resolute in making sure I get results for clients and I fully respect their business. I saw Dan share similar sentiments months back and saw he too was one of the rare people who insist on that. I know Savidge insists on providing quality.

And I'm glad this situation has been dealt with the way it has, and Jarod will continue to get the advice he needs.

Getting started was the absolute best thing he could do, as much in need of improvement as any first attempt is.

Things just so happened to have played out so far that the essential feedback needed to be delivered in completely uncompromising terms so the correct and vital adjustments could be made.

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kirbymarketingconcierge

9 years ago

I wonder what Jarod's business lesson's were?

Just the facts. no pre-qualifying like " It's been a heavy day "

what did he learn, how can he improve,

any funny business anecdotes ( can Jarod laugh at himself )

or.... in the jungle, put up or shut up, time to act epiphanies....???

etc..,

Teachable moments

If jarod can screw up so can I

If he can learn to do it right , so can I

* many views (over 5,000) on this thread - maybe help other members prepare & process better

As Underground stated "reality-based feedback".

Just an Observation : this thread, ahead of threads below :

--------
$10, clients, offline, trick $10 Offline Trick: Get Clients (Multi-page thread 1 2)

11th January 2015 07:11 AM
Views - 4,251
---------
Blind leading the blind thread

Views - 1271

------------

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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by kirbymarketingconcierge

I wonder what Jarod's business lesson's were?

Just the facts. no pre-qualifying like " It's been a heavy day "

what did he learn, how can he improve,

any funny business anecdotes ( can Jarod laugh at himself )

or.... in the jungle, put up or shut up, time to act epiphanies....???

etc..,

Teachable moments

If jarod can screw up so can I

If he can learn to do it right , so can I

* many views (over 5,000) on this thread - maybe help other members prepare & process better

As Underground stated "reality-based feedback".

Just an Observation : this thread, ahead of threads below :

--------
$10, clients, offline, trick $10 Offline Trick: Get Clients (Multi-page thread 1 2)

11th January 2015 07:11 AM
Views - 4,251
---------
Blind leading the blind thread

Views - 1271

------------

Every since Dan told me to focus on delivering an excellent service and fulfillment, I haven't been taking feedback personally, but as a lesson. And with his tip about fiddling and dealing with problems, I find the process fairly easy to deal with at the moment. Only thing is I am growing more dedicated to this with each new problem I'm dealing with.

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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Underground

Reality-based feed-back was needed here. As harsh as it was. Anything less would have been to let someone continue on a dangerous road.

You can't leave someone in a dangerous place of delusion and not attempt to ensure they quickly snap out of that any way you can. The full gravitas of the situation needed to be made clear, in a way that would happen if he went out and started getting paying clients and was treating them with such contempt. It had to escalate to a certain point for the full implications to be made clear.

In recent months I've had one guy take a month on a site and moved at an absolute snails pace, delays everywhere, but I was so busy at the time and couldn't hire someone else I kept giving him chances. I fired him, learned to do the job myself in a few hours and had more done in a day then he had the whole month. I literal did and built the whole site in days when he'd barely finished a page.

I hired another guy who told me an 8 page site would be done in a certain time frame. He half done the first page by the time the deadline had passed so I asked for a refund, which he refused. And tried to make a case he was nearly finished (he really thought this in his mind, he wasn't being dishonest just scarily deluded), and I did that to cheat him out of money. There was a massive back and forth on a freelance site with this guy of vehement, abusive argument and drivel, excuses and delusion, and this seems to be common with a lot of the ones who should not be allowed to set themselves up as a freelancer.

Another guy clearly did not know what he was doing when working on a task and I could see that and closed the job, and he went and trashed my site. After wasting days going back and forth with the guy giving me all the promises and convincing me he could do the job well as I wanted. So most of the week gone where you've been sitting there on skype waiting hand and foot on the freelancer to ensure they have everything and you can give prompt feedback, not to mention all the time wasted in the pre hire stage explaining the job. Only to get nowhere and have the site completely wrecked out of spite.

Another from here started a web customization job, and then in the middle of it tried to say he was not going to make it compatible on all browsers as that would be too much work, even though he'd agreed to that and then trolled and harassed me on here with sickening abuse, because I refused to go along with his stunt and let him extort me for more money. He was a completely abusive basket case

These are just a few of the characters I've worked with who were just completely and utterly deluded and outright refused to realize they were any way in the wrong. I've been shocked and sickened by the kind of people who have done everything right to look like a freelancer on the outside. A great cv, good portfolio, great persuasion skills, know how to make it look like they know what they are doing. When really you really, literally could learn it yourself faster than these so-called professionals.

And their personalities and psychological make-up was such that they are a liability to anyone.

I was not going to see Jarod be able to pick up habits where he holds clients in such contempt like these guys. I think it was important for me to atleast attempt to burst they dangerous bubble he seemed to be in where he was not willing to admit he'd wasted anyone's time.

No way would I be happy not doing what I thought was necessary for his long term benefit. I'd tried to be nice and constructive in feedback and it didn't work. But the feedback was certainly not for my own self-gratification of simply tearing someone down because I was pissed off.

The above situations were nightmares. I easily wasted 3 months of last year on these people an got nowhere and had massive stress.

You can have a great coach, a great process, great talent, but if you have the wrong personality and can't care and respect a client's business and project like it was your own, then you're going to have a career where you cause people a lot of stress, misery and lost time and never be hired long-term or advance much at all.

I am absolute resolute in making sure I get results for clients and I fully respect their business. I saw Dan share similar sentiments months back and saw he too was one of the rare people who insist on that. I know Savidge insists on providing quality.

And I'm glad this situation has been dealt with the way it has, and Jarod will continue to get the advice he needs.

Getting started was the absolute best thing he could do, as much in need of improvement as any first attempt is.

Things just so happened to have played out so far that the essential feedback needed to be delivered in completely uncompromising terms so the correct and vital adjustments could be made.

You do realize I never got to the point of deliverying a project for you right? So our situation do not apply to the characters you described. Our situation was primarily about communication, not service delivery. But I do agree with how you feel, and I can understand how you might look at me after this particular situation. My problem is that I simply left you out of the loop by mistake when I went and started a new routine, and I am sorry that you were the one to go through this issue.

I know you already said to not reply to your PM from a day ago, but I am still up to get with you on anything forward. But before that, I can't promise I'm the most professional person when it comes to customer support and getting you on board. As you can see, I am learning and going through trial and error to improve my service step by step to do the best I can.

And about your project, I hope your project goes well and you are satisfied in the end of all this. Savidge told me he would see what he could do for you. I wish good luck upon you.

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jon99c

9 years ago

Give me some updates!

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dave147 9 years ago

Originally Posted by jon99c

Give me some updates!

Are you a client of Jarod's?
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jarod b 9 years ago

Originally Posted by jon99c

Give me some updates!

Sure.

There really wasn't much that went on today. I'm still waiting for my client to review the current progress of their website, and it's 2 days now that he hasn't replied yet. He has to get give me the required copy and photos before I can fully design his website, and he also had to review the current draft I showed him.

After that is my daily routine, and I don't have any interested customers yet. I'm still waiting on people to talk with me over skype, and I'm also updating my for hire thread's copy to align with the recent advice I've been getting from this thread.

Err, some other updates are: me and Savidge talked over the phone yesterday and he showed me how I can begin programing Wordpress websites and work them into my services. I think that since I know a fair amount of programming (CSS, HTML, Javascript, and PHP) I will be able to make the transition. But right now I haven't decided when I'll start learning Wordpress development yet. I am still trying to figure out how I'm going to get my next new customer — only 1 person has signed up with my offer so far (the client above).

And last one is, I talked with my boss at my intern today about my business and the client issues I had, and he agreed that I was in the wrong, but the client was in the wrong as well. He said that any expectation a client gathers from a conversation is considered a promise on their end. So I have to be very clear with clients about my availability from now on, and also know that this is common in business.
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jon99c

9 years ago

Hey Jarod bud. Your still a young guy. Not many friends, no gf. Don't worry about it. Start fresh and make friends with people that are passionate about the same things as you. The first step to running a business is to Truly love yourself. Accept who you are and be proud of you are, the way you think, the things you like, and the way you feel. Do some pushups and lunges and take care of the body that holds your mind.

That truly is the first step. Take ten minutes to be grateful for all the reasons you love yourself. Even if you think you don't or there are things you hate, forget it man. Find the things you love. Time is all we truly have in this world so **** all these people that work more than 7 hours a day. Make the best of each moment in your life and truly love the people in it, the animals in it, nature, but mostly love yourself.

The next ten minutes write goals with a deadline. Start with personal goals,

By January 13th, 2016 I will have put on 20 pounds of muscle because they will improve my self esteem, make me feel stronger, make me smarter by sending more nutrients to my brain, make me sleep better, sleep less, have more energy, feel more passionate, feel more connected to my ancestors who had no choice but to sweat and bleed for survival, release natural endorphins to the brain to make you feel happy.

On Janurary 13th, 2016 I will be a part of a group in the community that loves "xyz". I personally love hockey, and I have no trouble meeting friends in the community who love hockey. Once you bring your self esteem up the gf will follow

Than decide on monthly or weekly goals. I'm impatient so I usually do weekly goals.

By January 20th I will have worked out 7 days in a row and feel absolutely incredible. My mind is already feeling more at piece, I love myself more, im more confident, and I'm already looking pretty damn good in the mirror. (It all depends on whats important to you, search google for 50 benefits of working out, theres some really good ones. Its a no brainer for anyone either working on computers, or feeling a bit down).

Than set your financial goals for another 10 minute with deadlines. These financial goals will help you achieve those personal goals a bit better. Maybe one of your personal goals is to MOVE OUT OF YOUR HOUSE!!!. This way you can visit your parents and appreciate them more.

Financial goals with deadlines. 1 year, 1 week from now, and each day. Or 1 year from now, 1 month from now, and each day. I again I prefer 1 week.

I promise you, when you take care of loving your mind and body. Everything else will become easy. When it is time to workout (somehow this became more about working out but hey, its works) always remember why you are doing it, don't think of the process of doing it. Think of why and the deadline. And remember, we have it made, we sit at our computers and we create problems that don't exist. Being drafted in to war is a problem, not the bullshit we create in our heads cause theres nothing else to do. Love yourself pal and set those goals with deadlines EVERDAY!!!!! TEN MINUTES. Ten minutes will a day will save you 30 hours a week!!

I'm not even sure if im clear on this post. I don't write much, I don't like to write lol and I will not proof read this. Let me know if this helps.

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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by jon99c

Hey Jarod bud. Your still a young guy. Not many friends, no gf. Don't worry about it. Start fresh and make friends with people that are passionate about the same things as you. The first step to running a business is to Truly love yourself. Accept who you are and be proud of you are, the way you think, the things you like, and the way you feel. Do some pushups and lunges and take care of the body that holds your mind.

That truly is the first step. Take ten minutes to be grateful for all the reasons you love yourself. Even if you think you don't or there are things you hate, forget it man. Find the things you love. Time is all we truly have in this world so **** all these people that work more than 7 hours a day. Make the best of each moment in your life and truly love the people in it, the animals in it, nature, but mostly love yourself.

The next ten minutes write goals with a deadline. Start with personal goals,

By January 13th, 2016 I will have put on 20 pounds of muscle because they will improve my self esteem, make me feel stronger, make me smarter by sending more nutrients to my brain, make me sleep better, sleep less, have more energy, feel more passionate, feel more connected to my ancestors who had no choice but to sweat and bleed for survival, release natural endorphins to the brain to make you feel happy.

On Janurary 13th, 2016 I will be a part of a group in the community that loves "xyz". I personally love hockey, and I have no trouble meeting friends in the community who love hockey. Once you bring your self esteem up the gf will follow

Than decide on monthly or weekly goals. I'm impatient so I usually do weekly goals.

By January 20th I will have worked out 7 days in a row and feel absolutely incredible. My mind is already feeling more at piece, I love myself more, im more confident, and I'm already looking pretty damn good in the mirror. (It all depends on whats important to you, search google for 50 benefits of working out, theres some really good ones. Its a no brainer for anyone either working on computers, or feeling a bit down).

Than set your financial goals for another 10 minute with deadlines. These financial goals will help you achieve those personal goals a bit better. Maybe one of your personal goals is to MOVE OUT OF YOUR HOUSE!!!. This way you can visit your parents and appreciate them more.

Financial goals with deadlines. 1 year, 1 week from now, and each day. Or 1 year from now, 1 month from now, and each day. I again I prefer 1 week.

I promise you, when you take care of loving your mind and body. Everything else will become easy. When it is time to workout (somehow this became more about working out but hey, its works) always remember why you are doing it, don't think of the process of doing it. Think of why and the deadline. And remember, we have it made, we sit at our computers and we create problems that don't exist. Being drafted in to war is a problem, not the bullshit we create in our heads cause theres nothing else to do. Love yourself pal and set those goals with deadlines EVERDAY!!!!! TEN MINUTES. Ten minutes will a day will save you 30 hours a week!!

I'm not even sure if im clear on this post. I don't write much, I don't like to write lol and I will not proof read this. Let me know if this helps.

I am working on it! Currently handling one goal with the 5-things-a-day trick that Dan told me about. So far I am still messing up, but I know what doesn't work so far.

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jon99c

9 years ago

I wanted to elaborate more on your past. You're past made you who you are today, so you got to respect that, but you can't sulk on the tools you think you didn't have to get what you want. You must use the tools you have now and move forward. There are people who come to America all alone with nothing. No family, no friends, no money. They manage to create love and passion here in America. Start fresh and make it happen. Depression is a huge problem in America because we are all disconnected money hungry *******s. Love yourself and the people in it, and continue to love yourself and new people.

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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by jon99c

I wanted to elaborate more on your past. You're past made you who you are today, so you got to respect that, but you can't sulk on the tools you think you didn't have to get what you want. You must use the tools you have now and move forward. There are people who come to America all alone with nothing. No family, no friends, no money. They manage to create love and passion here in America. Start fresh and make it happen. Depression is a huge problem in America because we are all disconnected money hungry *******s. Love yourself and the people in it, and continue to love yourself and new people.

Yes I do get depressed sometimes, and it's mostly because of me being impatient about certain things, but I am learning. I read a thread by Jason Kanigan the other day, and he was talking about linear vs exponential results. For me, it seemed like this was my biggest problem, and maybe I need to be more patience -- a lot more patient. And so I went and did some more research on improving my patience, and that's one thing I'm focusing on the most if I want to move my business and career forward.

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savidge4

9 years ago

A little update and a question. I did complete Undergrounds project. It turned out to be modification to a Wordpress theme more than anything. I left all of the changes noted so that Underground will know what has been done to what. I believe, the work puts him in a good place as far as moving forward with that aspect of his project.

Out of the 5 jobs that Jarod had initially gotten, I completed one of them ( due to time restraints ) and he is currently working with a client to complete another. The other 3? I am not going to say flaked out, but have been non communicative.

Jarod as a Coder is in an interesting situation. A bit of self education and he could technically move from building pages to developing Themes.

I as well as pretty much anyone reading this understands the financial value of theme development. Left to his own devices Jarod would probably never considered this.

So the question is; should Jarod bump his sales thread, to fill the open 3 spots, or should he focus on migrating towards Theme development? Ultimately the answer to this is up to him, but I personally would like to hear what others have to say before there is a determination towards a direction.

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iAmNameLess

9 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

So the question is; should Jarod bump his sales thread, to fill the open 3 spots, or should he focus on migrating towards Theme development? Ultimately the answer to this is up to him, but I personally would like to hear what others have to say before there is a determination towards a direction.

He CAN'T build a business right now, it will take him years to get anywhere. He's not socially ready or maybe unwilling to work on social issues to allow him to. I think the idea of either other design companies using him as a freelancer or theme development would be a great idea.

Both of those things would focus on his strong suits and hide the weaknesses. He will still have to work on communication in order to handle support for the themes but I think that's a really good idea you have Savidge.

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DaniMc

9 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

A little update and a question. I did complete Undergrounds project. It turned out to be modification to a Wordpress theme more than anything. I left all of the changes noted so that Underground will know what has been done to what. I believe, the work puts him in a good place as far as moving forward with that aspect of his project.

Out of the 5 jobs that Jarod had initially gotten, I completed one of them ( due to time restraints ) and he is currently working with a client to complete another. The other 3? I am not going to say flaked out, but have been non communicative.

Jarod as a Coder is in an interesting situation. A bit of self education and he could technically move from building pages to developing Themes.

I as well as pretty much anyone reading this understands the financial value of theme development. Left to his own devices Jarod would probably never considered this.

So the question is; should Jarod bump his sales thread, to fill the open 3 spots, or should he focus on migrating towards Theme development? Ultimately the answer to this is up to him, but I personally would like to hear what others have to say before there is a determination towards a direction.

That's a good question. I kind of look at it two ways -

1) Selling is an essential skill in life. Especially if he is going to be independent and self-employed. Even if he is making themes for some of the big portals, he still will have to sell and do a good bit of customer communication and service. So, if this is the route he is going, I personally think he should try to get these 5 done. After that, I think he should put a profile on all the freelance sites.

If he is going to be in business, he simply must have some grasp of customer fulfillment.

2) There are plenty of people who are great at coding and don't have to sell or support customers - they are just not self-employed. They work for someone else who handles that.

Now, there is GREAT money available to people who become skilled at coding. Jarrod doesn't have to be self-employed to be successful. There are many web dev's making over $120k annually.

He just needs to figure out which way he is going to go.

Either way - I think he should finish the immediate task. Even when trying to get a job he can say "Look what I build for these people - but I suck at selling - so you can benefit from my ambition and experience as a coder."

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kirbymarketingconcierge 9 years ago

from Dan

Selling is an essential skill in life.

see what Dan said

or

sterotypesof "salespeople" and

image problems, like "i'm not a pushy person", "I don't do sales", I hate salespeople"

if your trying to get a girlfriend! you think you don't have to sell yourself?!!!
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savidge4

9 years ago

As much as I agree with many things here. Lets be very clear. There are NOT 5 clients in the hopper. there is the one I completed and the one he is working on, and that's it. His estimation, as well as my guestimation, it is going to take him 2 weeks to fulfill the one client he has.

Given his existing price point... $49 for 1 page, and $99 for 5 pages, If the current client were a paying customer he would make $50 a week. The question becomes is that good a good business decision? needing sales experience yada yada or not.. again is that a good business decision?

So 2 1/2 months from now, when he completes the 5 sites that is proposed, then he can start making money, he can then list on freelance sites. In the mean time at what $20 a crack to bump his thread... he is bleeding money ( financially being relative, $20 a crack is bleeding ) and to get where?

I am going to be straight up honest here. I tonight did offer to work out a partnership deal where he builds suggested themes, and I would deal with the front end side. A bit to my surprise, he turned that down. He does not want to work for someone else. ( note I said partnership ) His intentions are to follow the above path, because that is the route that Dan has suggested.

Here is the deal. Im a business man. I see the potential in his skills as a programmer and a designer. I believe he sees those same skills. However, I see them in a completely different financial bracket. I see the potential in designing and building Niche specific themes, and after 2 weeks of his work, and the baton gets passed, there would be money there. In his case... we are talking life changing money for Jarod.

For him to move forward on the current path, there are some things that need to change.

#1 Yes he is selling HTML / CSS UI's but not really. Specifically he is selling Custom Bootstrap Framework sites. There is a difference.
#2 the price has to rise considerably. If a beginner designer can sell a Wordpress site at $500, where does someone that is custom designing all of the graphic elements on the page let alone the code start? The number is north of $1000. - kind of pushes him out of the WF average price range?
#3 To leverage his skills, and step into a competitive, and flourishing environment, I would suggest that he needs to really take a good hard look at Wordpress, at the very least. - I personally made the exact same move. I HAD to, to stay competitive in the web design market.

I believe that with the bit of coaching that I provided, he is headed in the right direction. Just the concept of starting the structure of the site prior to having all the text and image elements is a HUGE time saver.

I will back him in any direction he chooses to follow, I told him this evening it ultimately is HIS choice.

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

That's a good question. I kind of look at it two ways -

1) Selling is an essential skill in life. Especially if he is going to be independent and self-employed. Even if he is making themes for some of the big portals, he still will have to sell and do a good bit of customer communication and service. So, if this is the route he is going, I personally think he should try to get these 5 done. After that, I think he should put a profile on all the freelance sites.

If he is going to be in business, he simply must have some grasp of customer fulfillment.

2) There are plenty of people who are great at coding and don't have to sell or support customers - they are just not self-employed. They work for someone else who handles that.

Now, there is GREAT money available to people who become skilled at coding. Jarrod doesn't have to be self-employed to be successful. There are many web dev's making over $120k annually.

He just needs to figure out which way he is going to go.

Either way - I think he should finish the immediate task. Even when trying to get a job he can say "Look what I build for these people - but I suck at selling - so you can benefit from my ambition and experience as a coder."

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iAmNameLess

9 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

I am going to be straight up honest here. I tonight did offer to work out a partnership deal where he builds suggested themes, and I would deal with the front end side. A bit to my surprise, he turned that down. He does not want to work for someone else. ( note I said partnership )

What an incredibly stupid, stupid, decision.

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KloudStrife 9 years ago

^^^^
Not sure why you guys are wasting your time and effort. OP says he wants to start a business, he wants to be his own boss, period. No other logic involved, no working for anyone else bs, just himself. "Gotta build that portfolio!"

His ego is in the way, he only care about himself; the center of attention if you may, without putting any real strategies to work.
....to the point where he wouldn't be able to do a big project or partnership with someone else......... at all.
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DaniMc

9 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

As much as I agree with many things here. Lets be very clear. There are NOT 5 clients in the hopper. there is the one I completed and the one he is working on, and that's it. His estimation, as well as my guestimation, it is going to take him 2 weeks to fulfill the one client he has.

Given his existing price point... $49 for 1 page, and $99 for 5 pages, If the current client were a paying customer he would make $50 a week. The question becomes is that good a good business decision? needing sales experience yada yada or not.. again is that a good business decision?

So 2 1/2 months from now, when he completes the 5 sites that is proposed, then he can start making money, he can then list on freelance sites. In the mean time at what $20 a crack to bump his thread... he is bleeding money ( financially being relative, $20 a crack is bleeding ) and to get where?

I am going to be straight up honest here. I tonight did offer to work out a partnership deal where he builds suggested themes, and I would deal with the front end side. A bit to my surprise, he turned that down. He does not want to work for someone else. ( note I said partnership ) His intentions are to follow the above path, because that is the route that Dan has suggested.

Here is the deal. Im a business man. I see the potential in his skills as a programmer and a designer. I believe he sees those same skills. However, I see them in a completely different financial bracket. I see the potential in designing and building Niche specific themes, and after 2 weeks of his work, and the baton gets passed, there would be money there. In his case... we are talking life changing money for Jarod.

For him to move forward on the current path, there are some things that need to change.

#1 Yes he is selling HTML / CSS UI's but not really. Specifically he is selling Custom Bootstrap Framework sites. There is a difference.
#2 the price has to rise considerably. If a beginner designer can sell a Wordpress site at $500, where does someone that is custom designing all of the graphic elements on the page let alone the code start? The number is north of $1000. - kind of pushes him out of the WF average price range?
#3 To leverage his skills, and step into a competitive, and flourishing environment, I would suggest that he needs to really take a good hard look at Wordpress, at the very least. - I personally made the exact same move. I HAD to, to stay competitive in the web design market.

I believe that with the bit of coaching that I provided, he is headed in the right direction. Just the concept of starting the structure of the site prior to having all the text and image elements is a HUGE time saver.

I will back him in any direction he chooses to follow, I told him this evening it ultimately is HIS choice.

Jarrod! SAY YES TO OPPORTUNITY!! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD SAY YES!

Savidge knows much more about this business than I ever will. I know all about business in general - this man will save you a lot of trouble and experimenting. Say yes!

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iAmNameLess

9 years ago

Hey Dan... why are you ignoring my PM? LOL

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jarod b

9 years ago

I understand that I would be designing themes and he would do the front end, but my concern is if I would get caught into not doing the things I want to do later on in my career. That would be making custom Wordpress websites for clients in the future while also selling marketing — pretty much consulting.

At the time I talked with Savidge on the phone, I felt like the work I would be doing was just themes and not any marketing or consulting to my clients — much like working for my boss at my current intern. From the very start I wanted to freelance for at least 7 years and then later on transition into running my own agency one day to do consulting and website advertising. I like money, but I also like doing things I enjoy for money and not because it will bring in a ton of cash. I really believe I can get to consulting and will eventually warm up to doing business if I keep at it.

So to answer some social curiosities. I never intended to imply that I was shy or unwilling to be social. My thinking is that I simply have a hard time socializing. I don't socialize often, but when I do I feel like some situations are awkward and maybe I messed up when talking to a person.

P.S. @kirbymarketingconcierge Lol that was funny. If I am a terribly salesmen, I must be horrible with women XD. It's funny you even mentioned girls too. I saw this pretty girl today that I never saw at the building I intern at, and we talked for a while til I said something off that instantly made her smile turn to utter confusion. I still don't get what I said lol, but oh well. Maybe another time I will get it. Back to the chalk board :p.

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iAmNameLess

9 years ago

Originally Posted by jarod b

I understand that I would be designing themes and he would do the front end, but my concern is if I would get caught into not doing the things I want to do later on in my career. That would be making custom Wordpress websites for clients in the future while also selling marketing -- pretty much consulting.

At the time I talked with Savidge on the phone, I felt like the work I would be doing was just themes and not any marketing or consulting to my clients -- much like working for my boss at my current intern. From the very start I wanted to freelance for at least 7 years and then later on transition into running my own agency one day to do consulting and website advertising. I like money, but I also like doing things I enjoy for money and not because it will bring in a ton of cash. I really believe I can get to consulting and will eventually warm up to doing business if I keep at it.

So to answer some social curiosities. I never intended to imply that I was shy or unwilling to be social. My thinking is that I simply have a hard time socializing. I don't socialize often, but when I do I feel like some situations are awkward and maybe I messed up when talking to a person.

OMG..

I'm done. What's the point in trying anymore? LOL.

You're talking about career, freelancing, consulting, agency, advertising, but you're unable to give away 5 free websites. I thought you were going to listen to Dan's advice. What happened to that?

You complained about not having a car, not having full computer access, all this stuff but you have an opportunity in front of you that allows you to make money. Probably very good money.

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kirbymarketingconcierge 9 years ago

jarod,

you know what women like?

a Man with a Plan.

IMO - listen to what savidge tells you to do.

don't think,
don't excuse yourself
don't judge,
and just do it.

you will look back with pride, and money in your pocket.

and take that girl out to lunch.
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DaniMc

9 years ago

Originally Posted by iAmNameLess

Hey Dan... why are you ignoring my PM? LOL

Nothing personal man! I get a TON of PM's and I rarely get around to them. I'll read it this weekend probably.

Originally Posted by jarod b

I understand that I would be designing themes and he would do the front end, but my concern is if I would get caught into not doing the things I want to do later on in my career. That would be making custom Wordpress websites for clients in the future while also selling marketing — pretty much consulting.

At the time I talked with Savidge on the phone, I felt like the work I would be doing was just themes and not any marketing or consulting to my clients — much like working for my boss at my current intern. From the very start I wanted to freelance for at least 7 years and then later on transition into running my own agency one day to do consulting and website advertising. I like money, but I also like doing things I enjoy for money and not because it will bring in a ton of cash. I really believe I can get to consulting and will eventually warm up to doing business if I keep at it.

So to answer some social curiosities. I never intended to imply that I was shy or unwilling to be social. My thinking is that I simply have a hard time socializing. I don't socialize often, but when I do I feel like some situations are awkward and maybe I messed up when talking to a person.

P.S. @kirbymarketingconcierge Lol that was funny. If I am a terribly salesmen, I must be horrible with women XD. It's funny you even mentioned girls too. I saw this pretty girl today that I never saw at the building I intern at, and we talked for a while til I said something off that instantly made her smile turn to utter confusion. I still don't get what I said lol, but oh well. Maybe another time I will get it. Back to the chalk board :p.

Edited because I was too harsh. Sorry Jarrod.

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savidge4

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

If I were Savidge, I would probably take my offer back and leave you to your dad-taxi and internet porn and warrior forum fantasy-land. WF is NOT real-life.

Its at that point already. The whole concept is simply a good idea. I have already had communications to move forward with the concept. I will simply hire someone to do the same task. If I haven't proven it already, in this thread alone.. I don't think.. I ACT. There is an element of success that comes from planning... But true success comes from ACTING. I AM in the process of ACTION as I type this. One way or another THIS will happen.

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

I GUARANTEE if in a few months from now, you are doing a good job for him, and you want to learn other skills and do some other work, HE WILL BE FLEXIBLE WITH YOU.

This specifically was discussed. Im not here to baby sit. Im not even here to make Jarod an employee.. that wasn't the offer. I simply was going to step in, start Jarod on a path to entrepreneurship, make some money ( that is what I am good at doing ) and at a point I felt Jarod could handle it.. hand it over.

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thet

9 years ago

Dan,

Def. tough love. I wonder about one remark you made.

You don't even believe you are worth $45k a year - or you would have a job making at least that.

Care to explain?

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DaniMc

9 years ago

Originally Posted by thet

Dan,

Def. tough love. I wonder about one remark you made.

Care to explain?

Absolutely. The lives we lead are a function of the standards we set.

It's about turning your "shoulds" into "musts" - There is a difference between "I should have my own home" and "I MUST have my own home"

For some people - the MUST only revolves around basic necessities. They know they should reach the fulfillment of the higher human needs, but those never become MUSTS - absolute, gotta have it, will die trying, you will see me at the top or lying dead at the bottom type of push.

There is some lag time, sure. You raise the internal standard, and you then start making the adjustments required to reach it externally.

I know someone who was always DETERMINED to have high income. Right from High School, he got a degree in finance, got a job on Wall Street, and moved from Alabama to New York. He didn't care about anything else. He got his income.

After about 10 years, he had made a TON of money, moved back to his home state and started his own firm - still doing well.

Right now your MUST (from the other thread) is 50k. What you are gonna realize once you reach 50k - is that you should have set a higher goal.

There are people making 100k - you could just as easily push for that. Once it becomes a MUST you will do anything it takes to get it. You will move. You will change industries.

You simply will NOT allow a MUST to go unfulfilled. Nobody does. If you haven't eaten in a week, or your child hasn't eaten in a week, you will rob, steal, attack, loot, work, or even sell your soul to make that MUST come true.

If it's true for food - it's true for everything else. It's all about self-esteem and priorities.

For me - my goals are right up there with food and air. I MUST HAVE THEM. No economy, no competitor, nothing will stop me.

If I need to learn, I learn. I need to meet some new people, I meet them. If I need to get on an airplane, I go.

I will win, or I will die.

If good income is a MUST, you will see it the same way. I will have it, or I will die, no matter what is required of me, I will do it.

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thet

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

Absolutely. The lives we lead are a function of the standards we set.

It's about turning your "shoulds" into "musts" - There is a difference between "I should have my own home" and "I MUST have my own home"

For some people - the MUST only revolves around basic necessities. They know they should reach the fulfillment of the higher human needs, but those never become MUSTS - absolute, gotta have it, will die trying, you will see me at the top or lying dead at the bottom type of push.

There is some lag time, sure. You raise the internal standard, and you then start making the adjustments required to reach it externally.

I know someone who was always DETERMINED to have high income. Right from High School, he got a degree in finance, got a job on Wall Street, and moved from Alabama to New York. He didn't care about anything else. He got his income.

After about 10 years, he had made a TON of money, moved back to his home state and started his own firm - still doing well.

Right now your MUST (from the other thread) is 50k. What you are gonna realize once you reach 50k - is that you should have set a higher goal.

There are people making 100k - you could just as easily push for that. Once it becomes a MUST you will do anything it takes to get it. You will move. You will change industries.

You simply will NOT allow a MUST to go unfulfilled. Nobody does. If you haven't eaten in a week, or your child hasn't eaten in a week, you will rob, steal, attack, loot, work, or even sell your soul to make that MUST come true.

If it's true for food - it's true for everything else. It's all about self-esteem and priorities.

For me - my goals are right up there with food and air. I MUST HAVE THEM. No economy, no competitor, nothing will stop me.

If I need to learn, I learn. I need to meet some new people, I meet them. If I need to get on an airplane, I go.

I will win, or I will die.

If good income is a MUST, you will see it the same way. I will have it, or I will die, no matter what is required of me, I will do it.

Well. Then I can see the problem with Jarod, and most, including me. Somewhere, I am way to comfortable with what I have.
And face it,
I AM comfortable. I have a 9 to 5 job, a great gym to work out, a swiss sense bed (2 by 2.10. Jeez!!) and I sleep like a baby every night, a girlfriend and family who loves me, a 15 year old car without any big issues.

So .. Why would should I MUST earn 100k? I want it, it would be nice. But, tbh, It's not a must (yet). It's a dream, not a goal.

I wrote down: I will earn 100k.

Then I thought: Yeah right.

Just being completely honest here.

Jarod, he is comfortable. He has his personal chauffeur, he doesn't have rent probably.. yayada.. Why make it a must? It would be nice to own his own business.. it would be nice to have clients.
But it's a dream.

We all dream and we all set goals. The high achievers probably turn dreams into goals more often?

I wonder how we then make should into musts? (classic Tony here).
I never really understood on a deep level how to do it.. Other then changing the words..

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DaniMc

9 years ago

Originally Posted by thet

I wrote down: I will earn 100k.

Then I thought: Yeah right.

Just being completely honest here.

Jarod, he is comfortable. He has his personal chauffeur, he doesn't have rent probably.. yayada.. Why make it a must? It would be nice to own his own business.. it would be nice to have clients.
But it's a dream.

We all dream and we all set goals. The high achievers probably turn dreams into goals more often?

I wonder how we then make should into musts? (classic Tony here).
I never really understood on a deep level how to do it.. Other then changing the words..

Yeah you should keep it at 50 and then hit it. That's when you move it up because you will see how growth is possible.

To change shoulds into musts - you gotta have reasons in several dimensions. There are physical, emotional, and spiritual aspects of achieving anything.

When you don't have enough money - you are not free to express your true self. It's about your personal template of the person you could be. That will almost always require money - unless your goal is to be a monk.

I'm comfortable - but I MUST move to a new level to fully express my tastes, my hobbies, my family, my involvement in society - there are SO MANY things that I want to do - and they all take money.

Not to mention the HUGE part of my self-image that identifies with being a "money maker" and "businessman."

In order to really be successful - I must have the cash to reach my full level of self-expression in every area of my life.

That is what freedom is about.

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iAmNameLess

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

That is what freedom is about.

I think differently about freedom. I don't think money can buy freedom at all, that it's more like a lifestyle choice.

Do I really have freedom? I feel like a slave for money, I work to have money so I can do things and work hard so I can pay a lot in taxes and prepare for retirement one day.

I used to be motivated by money... I wanted to make as much money as possible but then once I started REALLY making money, I wasn't motivated by it and it doesn't make me happier.

Freedom to me is not being held hostage by your source of income. Hopefully I will figure it out one day.

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kirbymarketingconcierge 9 years ago

Reminds me of Tony Robbins "mixed emotions"

Know Thyself.
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DaniMc

9 years ago

Originally Posted by iAmNameLess

I think differently about freedom. I don't think money can buy freedom at all, that it's more like a lifestyle choice.

Do I really have freedom? I feel like a slave for money, I work to have money so I can do things and work hard so I can pay a lot in taxes and prepare for retirement one day.

I used to be motivated by money... I wanted to make as much money as possible but then once I started REALLY making money, I wasn't motivated by it and it doesn't make me happier.

Freedom to me is not being held hostage by your source of income. Hopefully I will figure it out one day.

Hey that's a really great point. What good is money if you are slaving away in the salt mines all day?

Still, I think it is easier to increase revenue, without a corresponding increase in time commitment, than it is to decrease time commitment without losing revenue.

You could probably increase your sales by 200% while working the same hours. By the time sales got to 400% of their current level, you could probably start reducing the time commitment.

Grow it by 1,000% and you can sell it and take a few years off.

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savidge4 9 years ago

What is freedom?

I think each and every one of us could define this individually, and never come up with a "Universal" definition. I am going to agree with iAm... Freedom is not only A choice, but freedom IS choice.

I am a firm believer in the idea of having Stepped In, To Step Out. If your life goal is to have a garden, and be some hippie type and live off the land, that's great. BUT you better have stepped in the game, and have the financial success to afford your dreams. More importantly you should have stepped in long enough to release the financial stress to obtain that level of freedom.

Money = stress. You have to pay taxes, you have to pay bills you have to watch the market you to chase that next dollar. Money basically sucks, and if YOU allow it, it will suck the life right out of you. Money like nothing else on this earth will drop a man to his knees or raise him up to a self realized level of freedom. Money is simply the jailer or the savior.

Money, Success, and Freedom come at many levels, and it is through dedication and hard work that you can not only reach levels of each, but visualize and strive towards even greater levels of each. Dan mentions in an earlier post.. THET set your goal to 50K that is easy for you to visualize.. it will be easy for you to obtain.. from there.. you set that next mark. you reach a level, you visualize and strive for the next.

Success breeds success. There are dreams and there are goals. Thet wants to make a million dollars in a year. THATS is the dream. the FIRST goal to achieving that dream is making $50,000 in one year. Reaching that first goal, will instill success, and success does what? it breeds success.. then he will reach $100,000 a year then $250,000 a year, then $500,00 a year, and then it happens... $1,000,000. From there like myself.. you will push further.. harder and faster.

I reached 2 goals this last year. I wanted to gross over $1,000,000 with the web Design firm. and I wanted the web design firm to exceed $5,000,000. Those goals were met. My new endeavor... I am shooting for 8 digits.. I am shooting for publically traded stock. I am shooting for the moon, and based on my past Success.. there is nothing that can stop ME, but myself.

I have the potential for "Freedom" but I CHOOSE to be a slave to my dreams, to the next goal in achieving that dream. Doing nothing is not appealing to me. It honestly is not an option. I got a real big fat check dropped on my desk not to long ago. I no longer had a business ( well a part of it ) holding me to that desk. I sat there for all of 15 minutes... and got on the phone and started selling my next venture ( CRO ) I had 15 minutes of FREEDOM, and it straight up scared me. more importantly it was literally that silent reminder I have more that I want to do.

for me personally... I am free... I am free of doubt, I am free of second guessing, I am free of having to look back in life and say.. "I wish I did that". I don't doubt anything.. I Act first, and think second..

Success is DOING. Right wrong, a "Success" or failure.. as long as you move forward to accomplish those goals..to reach those dreams. There is no such thing as failure,as long as you are doing. Failure is NOT doing, and THAT is controlled by YOU.
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thet

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

Absolutely. The lives we lead are a function of the standards we set.

It's about turning your "shoulds" into "musts" - There is a difference between "I should have my own home" and "I MUST have my own home"

For some people - the MUST only revolves around basic necessities. They know they should reach the fulfillment of the higher human needs, but those never become MUSTS - absolute, gotta have it, will die trying, you will see me at the top or lying dead at the bottom type of push.

There is some lag time, sure. You raise the internal standard, and you then start making the adjustments required to reach it externally.

I know someone who was always DETERMINED to have high income. Right from High School, he got a degree in finance, got a job on Wall Street, and moved from Alabama to New York. He didn't care about anything else. He got his income.

After about 10 years, he had made a TON of money, moved back to his home state and started his own firm - still doing well.

Right now your MUST (from the other thread) is 50k. What you are gonna realize once you reach 50k - is that you should have set a higher goal.

There are people making 100k - you could just as easily push for that. Once it becomes a MUST you will do anything it takes to get it. You will move. You will change industries.

You simply will NOT allow a MUST to go unfulfilled. Nobody does. If you haven't eaten in a week, or your child hasn't eaten in a week, you will rob, steal, attack, loot, work, or even sell your soul to make that MUST come true.

If it's true for food - it's true for everything else. It's all about self-esteem and priorities.

For me - my goals are right up there with food and air. I MUST HAVE THEM. No economy, no competitor, nothing will stop me.

If I need to learn, I learn. I need to meet some new people, I meet them. If I need to get on an airplane, I go.

I will win, or I will die.

If good income is a MUST, you will see it the same way. I will have it, or I will die, no matter what is required of me, I will do it.

After thinking a bit more about this, it's interesting to look at the points Eckhart Tolle makes. See, in the end, this is all in our mind.
We WANT certain things, so if we can drop the wants, and accept how our life is (which is already pretty comfortable as it is) we don't really need that high income.

You have probably thought about this too. And read about him too. Wonder how you think about it.

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DaniMc

9 years ago

Originally Posted by thet

After thinking a bit more about this, it's interesting to look at the points Eckhart Tolle makes. See, in the end, this is all in our mind.
We WANT certain things, so if we can drop the wants, and accept how our life is (which is already pretty comfortable as it is) we don't really need that high income.

You have probably thought about this too. And read about him too. Wonder how you think about it.

You can definitely take the route of lowering your standards. I tried that - and it was just a race to the bottom. LOL. How low will your standards go?

The thing is, you WILL have standards. You WILL have needs. You WILL have to work to keep them.

We all have 24/7 - 365. It is much better to spend that time doing work that is fulfilling, and living a life that is productive.

If you are going to have standards anyway, and will have to work anyway, why not have high standards? Why not have money?

Money will not MAKE you be happy, but it certainly can HELP you be happy.

I've known rich people who were miserable. I've known poor people who were miserable.

Hell, if you are going to be miserable anyway - you might as well be rich.

Sure, there are happy poor people. But if you are going to be happy anyway, you might as well be rich.

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thet

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

You can definitely take the route of lowering your standards. I tried that - and it was just a race to the bottom. LOL. How low will your standards go?

The thing is, you WILL have standards. You WILL have needs. You WILL have to work to keep them.

We all have 24/7 - 365. It is much better to spend that time doing work that is fulfilling, and living a life that is productive.

If you are going to have standards anyway, and will have to work anyway, why not have high standards? Why not have money?

Money will not MAKE you be happy, but it certainly can HELP you be happy.

I've known rich people who were miserable. I've known poor people who were miserable.

Hell, if you are going to be miserable anyway - you might as well be rich.

Sure, there are happy poor people. But if you are going to be happy anyway, you might as well be rich.

Yes. But isn't there a difference between lowering your standards and simply be happy with what you have?

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dave147 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

Sure, there are happy poor people. But if you are going to be happy anyway, you might as well be rich.

Originally Posted by thet

Yes. But isn't there a difference between lowering your standards and simply be happy with what you have?

They are happy because they have met their standards, they are poor because their standards and expectations are low...hence..."Happy" but poor and "happy" to be poor.
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thet

9 years ago

A page ago you said you where going to focus on Dan's advice. He is advising you to take on the offer. Its huge. Its an opportunity knocking at your door. Are you going to take it?

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Freebiequeen1999

9 years ago

I am simply....well I don't know what to say

I think there is just a fundamental problem around here - the idea that you can somehow sell without selling or that other people are going to sell your stuff for peanuts.

There are job in house web design work, companies that hire designers, they do their "talent" thing and let sales people do the selling. Thinking that true salespeople are going out with no backup, draw, sales material and try to sell websites for $99 a page is unreal

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savidge4

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Freebiequeen1999

I am simply....well I don't know what to say

I think there is just a fundamental problem around here - the idea that you can somehow sell without selling or that other people are going to sell your stuff for peanuts.

There are job in house web design work, companies that hire designers, they do their "talent" thing and let sales people do the selling. Thinking that true salespeople are going out with no backup, draw, sales material and try to sell websites for $99 a page is unreal

Freebiequeen,

you are right I should hire him as an employee put him on a salary of $600 a week ( 40 hours x $15.00 ) and after the medical insurance deduction and taxes etc he will bring home like $400 a week.

OR

We could have had a partnership that equal points on leverage on both sides he could have raked in 40% of every single sale. Potentially 1000's of sales at $49. each.

As much as some things you say make sense, in this case... you, and Jarod are the ones with the fundamental issues.

RISK has a value. EXPERIENCE has a value. and if you simply do not see that in this case in particular, well I don't know what to tell you.

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Freebiequeen1999

9 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

Freebiequeen,

you are right I should hire him as an employee put him on a salary of $600 a week ( 40 hours x $15.00 ) and after the medical insurance deduction and taxes etc he will bring home like $400 a week.

OR

We could have had a partnership that equal points on leverage on both sides he could have raked in 40% of every single sale. Potentially 1000's of sales at $49. each.

As much as some things you say make sense, in this case... you, and Jarod are the ones with the fundamental issues.

RISK has a value. EXPERIENCE has a value. and if you simply do not see that in this case in particular, well I don't know what to tell you.

??? I don't see any issue I share with Jarod ?

I am just ....amazed....by this thread.

All the coddling and enabling....only to have the first "client" (Underground) ignored and "avoided". Hello to Jarod - suit up and show up. Clients won't care bout your family problems or the gal who ignored you etc.

I will say it again - sales ability is a huge component of "offline" marketing. Yes, I guess some people can hire others but that takes money and I think you still have to be able to deal with people.

Shy? Nervous? Don't like to talk to people? Can't pick up a phone? Then maybe this is not for you.

I am realistic about myself - I never had any sports ability, so becoming a tennis star or a professional swimmer or whatever was not an option.

I can't carry a tune so American Idol is not for me - I don't even sing at Karaoke unless with a group after some drinks LOL. Why would anyone aim for something that is not a good fit for them?

Expecting shy/non sales people to thrive and enjoy marketing /service based business is simply unrealistic. Jarod IMHO should have taken the offer to partner - he might not get another offer like that.

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sunoy14

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Freebiequeen1999

??? I don't see any issue I share with Jarod ?

I am just ....amazed....by this thread.

All the coddling and enabling....only to have the first "client" (Underground) ignored and "avoided". Hello to Jarod - suit up and show up. Clients won't care bout your family problems or the gal who ignored you etc.

I will say it again - sales ability is a huge component of "offline" marketing. Yes, I guess some people can hire others but that takes money and I think you still have to be able to deal with people.

Shy? Nervous? Don't like to talk to people? Can't pick up a phone? Then maybe this is not for you.

I am realistic about myself - I never had any sports ability, so becoming a tennis star or a professional swimmer or whatever was not an option.

I can't carry a tune so American Idol is not for me - I don't even sing at Karaoke unless with a group after some drinks LOL. Why would anyone aim for something that is not a good fit for them?

Expecting shy/non sales people to thrive and enjoy marketing /service based business is simply unrealistic. Jarod IMHO should have taken the offer to partner - he might not get another offer like that.

Jarod, I have a similar problem like you. Socially awkard. Though I was an extrovert and socially Ok during childhood, I have become like this currently. I still dived into business and I do it alone. No partners

But you know what? Things are starting to become easier. I go out sometimes and meet people to get the habit of it. And to learn. Everything is learnable.

Shyness or whatever wears off after some time when you expose yourself to what you fear

. I couldn't even chat online with people before

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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Freebiequeen1999

??? I don't see any issue I share with Jarod ?

I am just ....amazed....by this thread.

All the coddling and enabling....only to have the first "client" (Underground) ignored and "avoided". Hello to Jarod - suit up and show up. Clients won't care bout your family problems or the gal who ignored you etc.

I will say it again - sales ability is a huge component of "offline" marketing. Yes, I guess some people can hire others but that takes money and I think you still have to be able to deal with people.

Shy? Nervous? Don't like to talk to people? Can't pick up a phone? Then maybe this is not for you.

I am realistic about myself - I never had any sports ability, so becoming a tennis star or a professional swimmer or whatever was not an option.

I can't carry a tune so American Idol is not for me - I don't even sing at Karaoke unless with a group after some drinks LOL. Why would anyone aim for something that is not a good fit for them?

Expecting shy/non sales people to thrive and enjoy marketing /service based business is simply unrealistic. Jarod IMHO should have taken the offer to partner - he might not get another offer like that.

Watch my next update.

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jarod b 9 years ago

Update
Alright, so besides all of the clashing on this thread, I haven't been writing for 2 hours again since last weekend, but I've been busy with my business.

I wanted to hold out on this until I received his advice, but oh well. So I received an email from one of my favorite website designers Mike Kus, and he said he would take time out to give me quality advice. I can't wait for that . I will also ask him how he deals with getting his websites developed and sold as well. It will be interesting!

During the time that I was talking with everyone here, I got 2 new leads and 1 prospect and 2 clients onboard so far. And I have a concern about this soon. I still don't know how I am going to schedule projects. They are piling up on me...especially with this marketing and sales lady I met at the build I intern in. She is one of my leads, gives my boss work as well, and even gave me a prospect. I can only imagine what I will have to deal with soon lol, but I don't mind because I'm excited XD.

Aside from this, I talked with my boss about my business and he was giving me some advice. And one thing I realized today is that business is all about having conversations. Not so much about selling. The more conversations you have with people about your business, the more business you get somehow. The approach is not logical at all to me, but I am learning that it works really well for whatever reason and so I will definitely continue on with it.
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jarod b

9 years ago

Okay. Let me clear this up. When I first made this thread, everybody looked at me as a wagon rider, and I explained to everyone clearly that I've always been into web design since 2008 and I know some details about the different components of online marketing — this isn't something I just dived into as a shiny idea. And if you look at one of Dan's posts to be in the beginning stages of this thread, you can see that I really am following his advice, which is getting a solid portfolio, proving my skills, learning how to sell my service, and hopefully I'll get to a point of running my own agency. This is exactly what Dan said himself, this is exactly what I chose and happily agreed to do from the start (and will see to it that this is the business I go into). So I am glad you guys want me to make the money I need, but I would rather earn it the way I intended to earn it from the beginning, which is freelancing and then in the future I will start my own agency — a goal I graduated for at high school, went to college for, a goal I focused on since I became a graduate, and a goal I will not drop for instant money.

I'm telling you the truth. This is coincidentally the same plan that Dan himself laid out for me (read the bottom part of his post) and why I believe that he knows what I am looking after. So I am not going to develop themes for the money guys. I want to freelance for now and nothing else. I am not changing directions. Sorry if this was not expected.

And I see you guys are talking about ambition, but you all seem to be placing me in another business model that I don't want to go with. All I want for now is to focus on freelancing, which I have been doing, and you all will see some more updates on this so far tomorrow.

Please help me out here. I have already tried to tell you guys my problem and you're all still focused on the clients I haven't gotten yet. Yes I haven't gotten my first 5 free clients out the way yet, but I am not any of the guys you have have worked with and I don't have the same problem solving abilities are they did. But I am taking action and solving my problems step by step, as you guys can see with each update. I will post more updates tomorrow.

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iAmNameLess

9 years ago

Originally Posted by jarod b

And I see you guys are talking about ambition, but you all seem to be placing me in another business model that I don't want to go with. All I want for now is to focus on freelancing, which I have been doing, and you all will see some more updates on this so far tomorrow.

I just see you making really bad decisions. Awful decisions to tell you the truth. I'm not sure anyone cares with updates anymore at this point.

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savidge4

9 years ago

First and for most... 3 NO's the offer is officially removed.

Now.. the part you just didn't see. Regardless if you were building with ME or building for your clients.. your end would NOT have been any different with 1 exception. I pay a whole hell of a lot better.

You were concerned with not dealing with customers? What would I have been? I would have been that consistent SOB that would have driven you to out of the box perfection. I would have been that customer that would EDUCATE you on the elements and why things need to go where. I would have been that client, that would have kept you CONSISTANTLY working.

F in straight I am a money man. and F in straight I know what the hell I am doing. Through the suggested process you would have learned the skills needed to be a success on your own, from someone that IS a success. I am not a mentor of words, I am a mentor of action. You would have had training and had access to my backend - time management/job management Database. You would have had me personally explaining element placement and function ( How to build a working - converting page ) And been paid really well.

Everything I was offering is what you are going to drag out over the next 7 years.. D R A G. and learn the hard way. working harder not smarter.. that's not being an entrepreneur, that's being...

Jarod.. you had 2 jobs to complete and I took one due to the clients time restraints. WHO HAS A COMPLETED JOB? ME or YOU?

Originally Posted by jarod b

Okay. Let me clear this up. When I first made this thread, everybody looked at me as a wagon rider, and I explained to everyone clearly that I've always been into web design since 2008 and I know some details about the different components of online marketing — this isn't something I just dived into as a shiny idea. And if you look at one of Dan's posts to be in the beginning stages of this thread, you can see that I really am following his advice, which is getting a solid portfolio, proving my skills, learning how to sell my service, and hopefully I'll get to a point of running my own agency. This is exactly what Dan said himself, this is exactly what I chose and happily agreed to do from the start (and will see to it that this is the business I go into). So I am glad you guys want me to make the money I need, but I would rather earn it the way I intended to earn it from the beginning, which is freelancing and then in the future I will start my own agency — a goal I graduated for at high school, went to college for, a goal I focused on since I became a graduate, and a goal I will not drop for instant money.

I'm telling you the truth. This is coincidentally the same plan that Dan himself laid out for me (read the bottom part of his post) and why I believe that he knows what I am looking after. So I am not going to develop themes for the money guys. I want to freelance for now and nothing else. I am not changing directions. Sorry if this was not expected.

And I see you guys are talking about ambition, but you all seem to be placing me in another business model that I don't want to go with. All I want for now is to focus on freelancing, which I have been doing, and you all will see some more updates on this so far tomorrow.

Please help me out here. I have already tried to tell you guys my problem and you're all still focused on the clients I haven't gotten yet. Yes I haven't gotten my first 5 free clients out the way yet, but I am not any of the guys you have have worked with and I don't have the same problem solving abilities are they did. But I am taking action and solving my problems step by step, as you guys can see with each update. I will post more updates tomorrow.

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DaniMc

9 years ago

Originally Posted by jarod b

Okay. Let me clear this up. When I first made this thread, everybody looked at me as a wagon rider, and I explained to everyone clearly that I've always been into web design since 2008 and I know some details about the different components of online marketing — this isn't something I just dived into as a shiny idea. And if you look at one of Dan's posts to be in the beginning stages of this thread, you can see that I really am following his advice, which is getting a solid portfolio, proving my skills, learning how to sell my service, and hopefully I'll get to a point of running my own agency. This is exactly what Dan said himself, this is exactly what I chose and happily agreed to do from the start (and will see to it that this is the business I go into). So I am glad you guys want me to make the money I need, but I would rather earn it the way I intended to earn it from the beginning, which is freelancing and then in the future I will start my own agency — a goal I graduated for at high school, went to college for, a goal I focused on since I became a graduate, and a goal I will not drop for instant money.

I'm telling you the truth. This is coincidentally the same plan that Dan himself laid out for me (read the bottom part of his post) and why I believe that he knows what I am looking after. So I am not going to develop themes for the money guys. I want to freelance for now and nothing else. I am not changing directions. Sorry if this was not expected.

And I see you guys are talking about ambition, but you all seem to be placing me in another business model that I don't want to go with. All I want for now is to focus on freelancing, which I have been doing, and you all will see some more updates on this so far tomorrow.

Please help me out here. I have already tried to tell you guys my problem and you're all still focused on the clients I haven't gotten yet. Yes I haven't gotten my first 5 free clients out the way yet, but I am not any of the guys you have have worked with and I don't have the same problem solving abilities are they did. But I am taking action and solving my problems step by step, as you guys can see with each update. I will post more updates tomorrow.

Savidge's offer would have made you an instant freelancer with a steady client. What more could you want????

He said he offered partnership. Not employment.

So, when you find another steady client that wants you to develop themes for them, you are going to say no??

I just don't get it. You chose to crawl through the swamp of getting started on your own, when someone has offered you to use their paved road to go around it.

Make no mistake - this is more difficult than you think. Learning to get everything done is not going to be easy.

My whole reason for going the way I did with you was just to get your head out of the clouds and get you started towards something realistic. Something practical.

When opportunity comes you must take it.

What is to say that while you are working on themes with Savidge, in partnership, you couldn't be working on your freelancing in your spare time?

You don't understand the value of money. You don't know what a dollar will do and what it is worth. Or you would have taken this opportunity to work with and be directly mentored by a 7-figure player.

I promise you - you WILL grow to regret this. The plan I laid out in that other post, was just to give us a framework for where you might eventually go. You are a long, long way from there. Honestly, I don't know what else to tell you.

Sure, keep going. Try to get some clients. Fill out the freelancer profiles. Call the incubators and talk to startups.

I believe the thread is toast. You were excited about the coaching - but you didn't take it.

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jarod b

9 years ago

I think everyone sees the path to where I am right now to where I want to be, but I don't see how designing themes will prepare me to start and run my own web design agency one day.

And looking at Savidge's posts, he is saying lots of details that were never specifically discussed over the phone. He questioned me multiple times WHY I didn't want to do theme development. I never receive any insight on mentorship. It was just a partnership. I would do the design, and he would do the front-end. <<< that was the clearest details I understand during the conversation. This new information is new info to me and could have been covered over the phone.

As for the offer, I didn't even get a chance to rethink what I was being offered until you guys started posting. But even after doing so, how would this offer have led me to freelance and then run an agency in the future? That still doesn't add up for me, and I still don't see how it will forward me to my career goals. To me, I'm just designing and learning to talk with clients. What about actually selling when I have to start my own agency? What about the marketing side for each client when a project starts? Sure I'd know how to design a website and build it, but there's no follow through about how I will learn the business aspects of freelancing and make the leap into running an agency.

These are the same questions I asked you in the very first posts I made on this thread Dan, and your steps made the most since. This one didn't — at least not during the phone call.

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savidge4

9 years ago

Originally Posted by jarod b

And looking at Savidge's posts, he is saying lots of details that were never specifically discussed over the phone. He questioned me multiple times WHY I didn't want to do theme development. I never receive any insight on mentorship. It was just a partnership. I would do the design, and he would do the front-end. <<< that was the clearest details I understand during the conversation. This new information is new info to me and could have been covered over the phone.

I want to say that I thought I made it very clear that part of this process would have been learning how to develop a site "correctly" What elements need to go where and why.

In regards to mentorship.. do you think I was going to let you do what you do? I have standards.. you would have been brought up to those standards without question. By the end of the process a year, 5 years whatever.. you would have known a better part of what I know. If you have read anything of what I post on this forum. you would understand that I am ALL ABOUT systems and STRUCTURE.

Structure is above and beyond anything you will ever learn the most import aspect to web development. Something right now you struggle with.

but again.. a theme for me, or a site for a client.. really? what's the difference?

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savidge4

9 years ago

I'm going to comment one more time, and that will probably be it on this subject anyways.

Jarod.. instead of the I didn't understand or the this wasn't mentioned... here is the thing. Last night you and I communicated., I proposed a partnership. you declined. Last night I posted a message here. Last night you posted yet another NO. Go back and read post 216. I lay out the 3 things you need to look at, and do to move forward. these are things we discussed. these are all things that were mentioned within the realm of the partnership. Better yet, these are the skills that would have made the required task on your end of the partnership work.

A series of post today... pretty explicitly saying one thing.. TAKE THE OFFER. and you know what... I told you last night on the phone take time and think about this. I was actually GIVING YOU that time. This evening? You didn't ask questions. my phone didn't ring... you replied that you were not going to work for the "money guys"

And your right, you aren't. The position is already filled. I hired a recent college grad this evening that took the offer before I was finished presenting it.

At this point you need to focus on those 3 objectives I listed last night. you need to REALLY think about the end objective, and understand there is more than one road there. You need to learn to ask questions when things are maybe not so clear. You need to watch what you say before you say it. These aren't ment to be "Personal" towards you though it applies.. these are the lessons that will best serve you and your future client relationships.

so here they are layed out once again;

Define what it is you do ( Custom Bootstrap Framework Development )
Determine the fair market value for the level you are currently at.
Learn WordPress
ASK QUESTIONS
Think before you speak
Understand that as long as the Objective remains the same, the path to getting there doesn't matter.
( Added bonus ) Flexibility is essential towards a successful outcome in anything in life.

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StarkContrast 9 years ago
Wow. I've been following this thread since the beginning and am amazed at the twists and turns it's taken. I think there were a lot on here cheering Jarod on to take what Mr. savidge4 was offering only because of who he is.

I've personally scoured through savidges4's previous posts more than once because they are just so good, from the offline paper business to the debate on html/wordpress to the endless advice on customer acquisition, sales, building a simple ecommerce business, on page SEO, web design, structure, and building a business in general. But unfortunately, for whatever reason, Jarod opted to do it the hard way, the route many of us are on. Pity. Still puzzled by it.

It's the very definition of a missed opportunity. I'm certain next month or next year or even in a few years he'll realize what he should have snatched up on the first try.

Thanks to all who've contributed to the thread. It's been an eye-opening read.

At least three things I've learned
- Action is much better than inaction.
- If someone offers to mentor you, jump on it.
- Focus on excellent customer service
- Thanks
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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

I'm going to comment one more time, and that will probably be it on this subject anyways.

Jarod.. instead of the I didn't understand or the this wasn't mentioned... here is the thing. Last night you and I communicated., I proposed a partnership. you declined. Last night I posted a message here. Last night you posted yet another NO. Go back and read post 216. I lay out the 3 things you need to look at, and do to move forward. these are things we discussed. these are all things that were mentioned within the realm of the partnership. Better yet, these are the skills that would have made the required task on your end of the partnership work.

A series of post today... pretty explicitly saying one thing.. TAKE THE OFFER. and you know what... I told you last night on the phone take time and think about this. I was actually GIVING YOU that time. This evening? You didn't ask questions. my phone didn't ring... you replied that you were not going to work for the "money guys"

And your right, you aren't. The position is already filled. I hired a recent college grad this evening that took the offer before I was finished presenting it.

At this point you need to focus on those 3 objectives I listed last night. you need to REALLY think about the end objective, and understand there is more than one road there. You need to learn to ask questions when things are maybe not so clear. You need to watch what you say before you say it. These aren't ment to be "Personal" towards you though it applies.. these are the lessons that will best serve you and your future client relationships.

so here they are layed out once again;

Define what it is you do ( Custom Bootstrap Framework Development )
Determine the fair market value for the level you are currently at.
Learn WordPress
ASK QUESTIONS
Think before you speak
Understand that as long as the Objective remains the same, the path to getting there doesn't matter.
( Added bonus ) Flexibility is essential towards a successful outcome in anything in life.

I read through all of your posts, and just like I said before, your offer didn't' even last long enough. We had a late night conversation over the phone and I woke up the next morning and the offer was gone. On top of that, all of your offers were mostly about money and only explained how I would get STARTED freelancing. Which is practically the same thing I am doing right now, except I would be more skillful at building websites, would have more customer support skills and obviously a lot of money — But not selling to businesses or developing a selling process.

But what I find interesting about all of this more than anything is your whole offer was about BUILDING websites and not about SELLING them, which is the opposite of this thread's purpose. The goal is to sell, and even you mentioned that I had no process in place and that I needed to work on one. But now I am dropping that process and reverting to building websites? Once again, your offer doesn't suggest how I will start selling websites as a freelancer and then transition to owning my own agency. It only talks about how much money I will make as a result of DESIGNING themes, which is not something I want to just do.

And speaking of your offer, I remember very clearly that I asked you if this theme designing business was something I should get into. You said, just like Dan did himself, that it's whatever direction I want to go with. Isn't that what I am doing right now? So why is it that everybody is pushing me into this offer when this offer doesn't clearly connect with my career goals? I don't think it's a stupid decision at all if we're talking about my career and all you're talking about is money the whole time.

About money. You said this would be a partnership, but at the same time you talked about hiring people over me and that you wouldn't hire me anymore. I don't really know what a partnership is, but I know for sure that 1 partner doesn't hire the other and then gives him his business when he's ready. Your concept behind this partnership looks good in terms of results, but not good in terms of process. I am completely derailed after reading the hiring lines... You said hiring about 3 or 4 times, and you also talked about having me work 40 hours a week when you are aware that I work a 9-5 intern. You hiring me wouldn't be realistic to even start with, especially at the paste you had to hire someone. Come to think about it, I don't even believe you hired anyone yet in the 10-12 hours I was asleep and getting ready for work in the morning. That doesn't even make sense now that I think about it that way.

And yes, I am still working on my first 5 clients, and it might take me 2 months. But even you said that there were beginner wordpress designers selling websites for $500 each and that I should look into wordpress development. So why the rush when you know that these 5 clients will start me off in getting closer to charging prices and going beyond $500 eventually?

But I won't even go further because I've said the same lines so many times by now. Plus you yourself even said that you would back me up in any direction I chose... over phone AND on this thread. You said it in post 216, which is coincidentally the same thing that Dan said. So why are you guys backing me down from selling websites to designing themes when you all know fully well that I don't want to work for the "money guys" and I want to FREELANCE?

Thanks

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iAmNameLess

9 years ago

I could have went without a lot of struggle and stress if I had someone give me an opportunity like that when I first started out.

Thanks

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iAmNameLess

9 years ago

You know what Jarod... I disagree with your decision, I think you're making a bad one, but I've had many partnership opportunities that I didn't take either, even though it probably would have been a good deal for me. Judging you for your decision would be hypocritical.

Good luck dude. I mean that.

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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by iAmNameLess

You know what Jarod... I disagree with your decision, I think you're making a bad one, but I've had many partnership opportunities that I didn't take either, even though it probably would have been a good deal for me. Judging you for your decision would be hypocritical.

Good luck dude. I mean that.

Thanks, and I would like to get you onboard as well if you're still interested.

Thanks
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iAmNameLess

9 years ago

Originally Posted by jarod b

Thanks, and I would like to get you onboard as well if you're still interested.

I think you would be better off with someone that really needs something done.

I am in need of some graphic design, all the time, is that something you can offer?

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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by iAmNameLess

I think you would be better off with someone that really needs something done.

I am in need of some graphic design, all the time, is that something you can offer?

No. I mean, I can do graphic design work, but I don't want to take on those kind of projects. Besides, I am still learning graphic design myself if I want do awesome work like Mike Kus, and I just started learning it about 3 or 4 months ago at my intern. But thanks for the support! You did help me out anyways :p.

Thanks
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iAmNameLess

9 years ago

Originally Posted by jarod b

No. I mean, I can do graphic design work, but I don't want to take on those kind of projects. Besides, I am still learning graphic design myself if I want do awesome work like Mike Kus, and I just started learning it about 3 or 4 months ago at my intern. But thanks for the support! You did help me out anyways :p.

That's a shame. I ALWAYS have a need for graphic work, especially because that's something I've never learned, and that is also the thing that takes the longest turnaround time for my team. If you ever change your mind, let me know.

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Underground

9 years ago

Jarod would have been mad to take the offer. Simple as that. Keep doing your thing Brother.

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DaniMc

9 years ago

Originally Posted by jarod b

Update
Alright, so besides all of the clashing on this thread, I haven't been writing for 2 hours again since last weekend, but I've been busy with my business.

I wanted to hold out on this until I received his advice, but oh well. So I received an email from one of my favorite website designers Mike Kus, and he said he would take time out to give me quality advice. I can't wait for that

. I will also ask him how he deals with getting his websites developed and sold as well. It will be interesting!

During the time that I was talking with everyone here, I got 2 new leads and 1 prospect and 2 clients onboard so far. And I have a concern about this soon. I still don't know how I am going to schedule projects. They are piling up on me...especially with this marketing and sales lady I met at the build I intern in. She is one of my leads, gives my boss work as well, and even gave me a prospect. I can only imagine what I will have to deal with soon lol, but I don't mind because I'm excited XD.

Aside from this, I talked with my boss about my business and he was giving me some advice. And one thing I realized today is that business is all about having conversations. Not so much about selling. The more conversations you have with people about your business, the more business you get somehow. The approach is not logical at all to me, but I am learning that it works really well for whatever reason and so I will definitely continue on with it.

Great job man. It's good see you are still going forward with your plan, even after all the pushing that was done. Nothing but respect can be given for that.

So, you have more clients coming on - and you are struggling to stay organized. I've tried a LOT of different Project Management tools, and the one I finally settled on is Wrike. it has been the best by far. It's free for the basic features you need, and it will grow with you.

They key here is not to get bogged down in technology. Pick something that will help you stay organized, and use it. People get hung up tweaking and trying things when really all that matters is getting the work done and servicing customers.

I think it is awesome that you kept going after the beating you took here, from myself and others. That shows something in you that all of us missed.

That kind of decisive mindset will take you far! I publicly apologize for all the shoving, judging, and negativity. You have shown your true colors.

Get these 5 clients handled and make sure they are happy before bothering with the freelance sites.

I want you to begin thinking about how long each project takes you to complete. To make $30K per year, working 50 hours per week (eventually when you are full-time at this) - you need to make $12.50 per hour. Let's round it up to $15.

So - if you are spending 5 hours on each project, you will eventually charge minimum $75 each so you can hit your goal.

The amount of time it takes, and how much you charge will depend on your processes and approach. The only way to know is to start keeping track. Don't put too much stress on it at this point.

Right now, the only thing that matters is getting the work delivered. Later, when you have that stuff figured out better, you will start thinking about delivering in the most optimal way possible. Eventually, the time it takes for each project will go down, and the amount you charge will go way up. Eventually, you will be able to charge well over $1,000 per project.

Originally Posted by Underground

Jarod would have been mad to take the offer. Simple as that. Keep doing your thing Brother.

Yes if some other info I have is true - he was wiser than all of us.

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savidge4

9 years ago

I am going to answer a few of the questions asked here and point out some information that has not been shared.

Everyone here needs to understand that Jarods portfolio is a "Design" portfolio. To the best of my knowledge there is no working models. Jarod is struggling with "Multiple page" sites... simply because he has never built one.

Jarod has a small bit of wordpress experience, but again from what I have gathered overly not to much. Again to develop a site in wordpress would have been a struggle.

Jarod has time restraint issues - He is an intern. Add in the Dad driving factor, and you are looking at this consuming right in at 10 hours a day ( to work - work - returning home )

Jarod has some difficulty with time management. Specifically, if he has more than one client, I believe he is not communicating that they may be 4 weeks from completion. He is taking work simply because it is laid in front of him. he is no way looking at his work load and factoring the decision on his part, or allowing the client to make a "informed" decision on their part.

Point in case. Jarod HAD all 5 positions filled for his FREE offer. He is working on one. I took one due to the time factor, and Jarod was not going to be able to complete ( forget the apparent miscommunication of keeping up with communication ). and the other 3? NO communication... lack of communication... communication communication communication.

Now more towards Jarod and I directly. The offer was NOT removed the next morning. Jarod apparently has many questions... but never sought answers. ( communication ) Jarod said "NO" 3 times... but felt there wasn't enough time? ( communication )

So what was it that I was offering that was going to continue Jarod on his path of "Self Employment"

I was more that willing to work within his time schedule
he was obviously going to learn how to develop multi page themes ( building multi page sites)
part of building WordPress themes would have been the need to learn wordpress. ( I DID show him a resource that I have developed and use to refer to as needed to learn and implement changes to themes )
over any amount of time, Jarod would have developed a library of themes that he could have used as a "freelancer" - these themes would have been niche targeted IE a theme for trades electricians plumbers etc a theme for laywers a theme for IM'ers etc ( a theme every 2 weeks would have been 26 themes a year )
Like anything... the more you do it the faster you get.. 2 weeks could have been brought down to a week?
Because he built these themes.. he would have known them inside and out - literally. later application of these themes would have been second nature to him.
Because I would have been giving him more than specific direction as to what to build he would have been learning the communication process in working with a client in the development process.

Would I have worked on the sales aspect of his being a "Freelancer" and later a consultant.. NOPE.. What I was working on was the FOUNDATION. building the BASE so those things could happen.

Right now.. he is exactly what each and every one of us dislike about our line of work. "Anyone can build a site" all you have to do is go out and sell it. - and my answer to this more than consistently is what? build a site for yourself first before you go out and sell to others. - Was this point shared with Jarod? DAMN SKIPPY

Read the 7 points above.. what was I offering? I think more than enough to learn to succeed in this business on his own 2 feet. Getting clients I hate to say it is the easy part.. fulfillment and getting that client a level of success from your work, is the hard part.. and this is the part that Jarod has yet to prove to anyone - including himself.

First and for most at this point, the lesson that needs to be learned is the VALUE of communication.

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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

I am going to answer a few of the questions asked here and point out some information that has not been shared.

Everyone here needs to understand that Jarods portfolio is a "Design" portfolio. To the best of my knowledge there is no working models. Jarod is struggling with "Multiple page" sites... simply because he has never built one.

Jarod has a small bit of wordpress experience, but again from what I have gathered overly not to much. Again to develop a site in wordpress would have been a struggle.

Jarod has time restraint issues - He is an intern. Add in the Dad driving factor, and you are looking at this consuming right in at 10 hours a day ( to work - work - returning home )

Jarod has some difficulty with time management. Specifically, if he has more than one client, I believe he is not communicating that they may be 4 weeks from completion. He is taking work simply because it is laid in front of him. he is no way looking at his work load and factoring the decision on his part, or allowing the client to make a "informed" decision on their part.

Point in case. Jarod HAD all 5 positions filled for his FREE offer. He is working on one. I took one due to the time factor, and Jarod was not going to be able to complete ( forget the apparent miscommunication of keeping up with communication ). and the other 3? NO communication... lack of communication... communication communication communication.

Now more towards Jarod and I directly. The offer was NOT removed the next morning. Jarod apparently has many questions... but never sought answers. ( communication ) Jarod said "NO" 3 times... but felt there wasn't enough time? ( communication )

So what was it that I was offering that was going to continue Jarod on his path of "Self Employment"

I was more that willing to work within his time schedule
he was obviously going to learn how to develop multi page themes ( building multi page sites)
part of building WordPress themes would have been the need to learn wordpress. ( I DID show him a resource that I have developed and use to refer to as needed to learn and implement changes to themes )
over any amount of time, Jarod would have developed a library of themes that he could have used as a "freelancer" - these themes would have been niche targeted IE a theme for trades electricians plumbers etc a theme for laywers a theme for IM'ers etc ( a theme every 2 weeks would have been 26 themes a year )
Like anything... the more you do it the faster you get.. 2 weeks could have been brought down to a week?
Because he built these themes.. he would have known them inside and out - literally. later application of these themes would have been second nature to him.
Because I would have been giving him more than specific direction as to what to build he would have been learning the communication process in working with a client in the development process.

Would I have worked on the sales aspect of his being a "Freelancer" and later a consultant.. NOPE.. What I was working on was the FOUNDATION. building the BASE so those things could happen.

Right now.. he is exactly what each and every one of us dislike about our line of work. "Anyone can build a site" all you have to do is go out and sell it. - and my answer to this more than consistently is what? build a site for yourself first before you go out and sell to others. - Was this point shared with Jarod? DAMN SKIPPY

Read the 7 points above.. what was I offering? I think more than enough to learn to succeed in this business on his own 2 feet. Getting clients I hate to say it is the easy part.. fulfillment and getting that client a level of success from your work, is the hard part.. and this is the part that Jarod has yet to prove to anyone - including himself.

First and for most at this point, the lesson that needs to be learned is the VALUE of communication.

Out of all the posts I read from you, I got the idea that you were more focused on the money than my career and did not explain how I would go from building themes to freelancing, and now it makes much, much more sense than before. And this is what I was asking you the whole time we talked about this. All I understood was that I would be building themes and making TONS of money, but there was no understanding of how it would help me transition into freelancing — besides the whole new lifestyle and new beliefs part you once mentioned. This whole idea seemed like it was another career that I was being pressured into choosing.

And yes, you are 100% correct about my time management issues and the fulfillment part and the 4 weeks part. But at the time I starting getting into all of this, Dan mentioned that I shouldn't worry about how long it would take each project. And so I never focused on that. I focused on building a procedure for myself, just like Dan suggested before more people came on board and started watching the thread. And iAmNameless posted right after Dan so I went with the flow. Plus I also mentioned that I tend to have perfectionistic tendendies, so I dived right into all of this and decided I would learn as I go, instead of preparing before I started. And that's what I've been doing. I've been taking people's advice and applying it while focusing on satisfying my customers. I even shared my business with my boss at my intern for help, and that's what I've been doing. I've been learning as I go.

Originally Posted by savidge4

Right now.. he is exactly what each and every one of us dislike about our line of work. "Anyone can build a site" all you have to do is go out and sell it. - and my answer to this more than consistently is what? build a site for yourself first before you go out and sell to others. - Was this point shared with Jarod? DAMN SKIPPY

I don't really remember you mentioning I should build a website before I went out and sold to people. And as I think about it, I can't even think about why you would have said that when I'm already working on a client project already and have a portfolio put together???

But even if that were the case, how would that make me different from beginner designers who are selling the $500 wordpress websites you mentioned? Wouldn't I be a beginner as well? Wouldn't I still be learning wordpress as I go just like the other designers?

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savidge4

9 years ago

Originally Posted by jarod b

Out of all the posts I read from you, I got the idea that you were more focused on the money than my career and did not explain how I would go from building themes to freelancing, and now it makes much, much more sense than before. And this is what I was asking you the whole time we talked about this. All I understood was that I would be building themes and making TONS of money, but there was no understanding of how it would help me transition into freelancing — besides the whole new lifestyle and new beliefs part you once mentioned. This whole idea seemed like it was another career that I was being pressured into choosing.

We did go over this. learning how do develop sites correctly from the ground up. Learning the basic structure of how a site is built to give it a better chance at success. You make it sound like all I talked about was money, and as I recall it, that was far from the truth. and Pressure? there was none... I am the one that said take your time and think about it...you were the one that repeatedly on 3 occasions said NO, and never did you reach out to ask further questions.

Originally Posted by jarod b

And yes, you are 100% correct about my time management issues and the fulfillment part and the 4 weeks part. But at the time I starting getting into all of this, Dan mentioned that I shouldn't worry about how long it would take each project. And so I never focused on that. I focused on building a procedure for myself, just like Dan suggested before more people came on board and started watching the thread. And iAmNameless posted right after Dan so I went with the flow. Plus I also mentioned that I tend to have perfectionistic tendendies, so I dived right into all of this and decided I would learn as I go, instead of preparing before I started. And that's what I've been doing. I've been taking people's advice and applying it while focusing on satisfying my customers. I even shared my business with my boss at my intern for help, and that's what I've been doing. I've been learning as I go.

Here is the point.. you HAD 5 clients from the thread you created... how many of those are "Satisfied"? How many of those do you still have? and ok LOL I added even more to the list, but I don't know how I am going to deal with all of them... btw iAm.. want to join my insanity and let me build you that site? How are you going to deal with them? in a less than satisfactory manor, that's how. You need to focus on ONE client. get them... run them through the process, and COMPLETE. Getting clients is obviously not an issue... its everything after that. 24 days from the start of this thread. 19 days since you posted your for hire thread and what is there to show for any of this? a string of unsatisfied customers.

Originally Posted by jarod b

I don't really remember you mentioning I should build a website before I went out and sold to people. And as I think about it, I can't even think about why you would have said that when I'm already working on a client project already and have a portfolio put together???

You don't recall the discussion of building an affiliate site? How to get a better understanding of what customers will need in regards to "Consulting" them in their business?

Originally Posted by jarod b

But even if that were the case, how would that make me different from beginner designers who are selling the $500 wordpress websites you mentioned? Wouldn't I be a beginner as well? Wouldn't I still be learning wordpress as I go just like the other designers?

You need to get the blinders off of what you think your path is. build some sites, and post on some freelance sites is the goal... but there are many steps to getting there. You are clearly looking past all of the steps and keeping your eye on the prize at the end.

If you had already built a page? If you already had proven success on how to make a page convert? how to get traffic to a page? how to basically get a page to do what it is designed to do? NO, you are then no longer in the category of "Beginner" that places you on an entirely different level.

You no longer are talking to your clients from a position of building a website as you are having a discussion about developing a profit producing segment to their existing business. Again, entirely different.

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savidge4 9 years ago

you keep referring to this post. http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...1-2-years.html I get it... but clearly you are not. the line that most sticks out for me in this specific situation is line 34 of the post "This infrastructure I'm talking about means collateral on the marketing side, and clear ability to handle the load on the fulfillment side."

You and I have discussed this. I personally dedicate 3 hours a day to nothing but sales. I told you what sales looks like to me. Simply going out and reaching. be it reaching new clients, or touching base with someone I have reached to already. Steady and consistent COMMUNICATION. IM NOT SELLING... just communicating and educating. The sales part just falls in my lap.

The other half away from the marketing side is the fulfillment side. THIS is the aspect you are ( lack of a better term ) failing at. At this point it is not even a minor adjustment needed here and there... we are talking EPIC. Your sales aspect is bringing them in at a much faster rate than you can get them out... and what's happening? You have clients blowing up on this thread. and you have clients that are no longer communicating with you. Does any of this sound like "Customer satisfaction"?

The only thing you are growing exponentially at this point, is a bad reputation. AND NOW... you have a person that feeds your BOSS work in your failing funnel. THINK for 2 seconds - 20 minutes if you need to. what could be the possible outcome if she is not satisfied? HOW and WHO is that going to reflect on? Its bad enough that you consume any ones time in this failing venture, but to draw in someone so closely connected to you and your BOSS... OMG dude. I am not even going to begin to ask "what were you thinking?" because its clear you weren't.

Get the blinders off of the DREAM... and start focusing on a goal man. Get a job COMPLETE. STOP pulling more into your existing funnel of confusion and get everything right, one client at a time. You will know when you can expand.. but right now, you are simply doing more harm than good.
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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

We did go over this. learning how do develop sites correctly from the ground up. Learning the basic structure of how a site is built to give it a better chance at success. You make it sound like all I talked about was money, and as I recall it, that was far from the truth. and Pressure? there was none... I am the one that said take your time and think about it...you were the one that repeatedly on 3 occasions said NO, and never did you reach out to ask further questions.

Here is the point.. you HAD 5 clients from the thread you created... how many of those are "Satisfied"? How many of those do you still have? and ok LOL I added even more to the list, but I don't know how I am going to deal with all of them... btw iAm.. want to join my insanity and let me build you that site? How are you going to deal with them? in a less than satisfactory manor, that's how. You need to focus on ONE client. get them... run them through the process, and COMPLETE. Getting clients is obviously not an issue... its everything after that. 24 days from the start of this thread. 19 days since you posted your for hire thread and what is there to show for any of this? a string of unsatisfied customers.

You don't recall the discussion of building an affiliate site? How to get a better understanding of what customers will need in regards to "Consulting" them in their business?

You need to get the blinders off of what you think your path is. build some sites, and post on some freelance sites is the goal... but there are many steps to getting there. You are clearly looking past all of the steps and keeping your eye on the prize at the end.

If you had already built a page? If you already had proven success on how to make a page convert? how to get traffic to a page? how to basically get a page to do what it is designed to do? NO, you are then no longer in the category of "Beginner" that places you on an entirely different level.

You no longer are talking to your clients from a position of building a website as you are having a discussion about developing a profit producing segment to their existing business. Again, entirely different.

Earlier today I got to thinking about growth and really this offer goes against the advice that Dan told me about when it comes to fiddling and tweaking. I'd be designing themes and making money, but I wouldn't be gaining much experience behind the juggling aspect of freelancing, which is managing client communication, onboarding new signees, producing and delivering work, business growth, time management for business, dabbling, and family, and skill improvement itself.

In other words, your offer would pretty much be the same as getting everything perfect before moving on, and even after I would have went through the training I would still need to figure out how to make time for skill improvement (or my new skills would stagnate at some later point). And as you know, the web industry tends to move fast each year. Also you even mentioned it yourself that I had a time management problem. And I think that's the biggest problem in all of this. Plus, oddly enough, that is also something I talked about early on in this thread when I said I knew squeezing time in for this business would be a challenge.

With that said, there is another line I agree with. You said to stop pulling more clients into my existing funnel of confusion. Yes it is a bit confusing, but you forget that the main thing we've been focusing on so far is developing a process while this whole conversation went on. And in that time I've been doing just that. I updated my sales copy earlier (not the thread yet), and basically I am moving communication over to the for-hire thread only or through email. And Dan said to keep track of conversations, and that's exactly why I moved over to email. So now, I have information about the client coming from 2 places and I don't have to worry about my inbox getting full on here anymore and confusing myself with scattered client conversations. I can literally pull up any conversation with gmail's search feature and send emails to myself of clients that posted on my for-hire thread.

So that right there is proof that I've been making my funnel less confusing, and I've been working on it and not talking with you guys the whole time.

As for clients, yes I'm not the most productive web designer or super amazing like the other designers around here. But I am learning, and as you know, we both agreed that WP was much better than HTML websites. So now I'll learn WP and then I can eventually improve my turnaround as I gain experience from juggling multiple responsibilities as a freelancer.

But to get to the point, because I am going left and right here — I've made up my mind. I like the offer you had, but I have to be realistic about this and say this wouldn't be realistic any longer after I'm done learning enough and then I have to keep up with the industry. And I truly think that's where your offer has flawed. You forgot the web industry is fast-paced. I think SEO guys will also agree when I especially reference the annoying Google updates that can literally kill a site in weeks. Same for web designers following new trends each year... and then developers coming out with so many frameworks each month. It's just not realistic after that, and time is the issue here. So thanks for the offer, but I don't think it will be best for me and my career.

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savidge4

9 years ago

So basically 21 days since you posted your for hire thread and 26 days since this has started, there is yet to be any completed work. Did you work at all on the 1 client you have work started for this weekend? as in this was a 3 day weekend. You see in my world... there are no holidays. there are added opportunities to get ahead of the game when people are expecting you to take the day off.

Originally Posted by jarod b

Earlier today I got to thinking about growth and really this offer goes against the advice that Dan told me about when it comes to fiddling and tweaking. I'd be designing themes and making money, but I wouldn't be gaining much experience behind the juggling aspect of freelancing, which is managing client communication, onboarding new signees, producing and delivering work, business growth, time management for business, dabbling, and family, and skill improvement itself.

Did the offer go beyond Dans advice.. well sure it did. Did Dan have the insight to see that there is a major hold up, in the actually production end of the process? He may have seen it ( it was obvious to me ) But communicating with you cemented the fact that YES there are fulfillment issues.

Set aside the offer, and I am still suggesting you bring these in one at a time. The reason being as you have stated above "is managing client communication, onboarding new signees, producing and delivering work, business growth, time management for business, dabbling, and family, and skill improvement itself." appears to be way far more than you can handle. so to knock that all back, bring in the clients 1 at a time and run them through your process. THIS will allow you to fine tune your process get comfortable with the production and delivery process, as well as understanding what it is you need to get from the clients specifically to START work on a project, and how you can filter the remain information in a TIMELY MANOR.

Originally Posted by jarod b

In other words, your offer would pretty much be the same as getting everything perfect before moving on, and even after I would have went through the training I would still need to figure out how to make time for skill improvement (or my new skills would stagnate at some later point). And as you know, the web industry tends to move fast each year. Also you even mentioned it yourself that I had a time management problem. And I think that's the biggest problem in all of this. Plus, oddly enough, that is also something I talked about early on in this thread when I said I knew squeezing time in for this business would be a challenge.

Here is the part of this you are missing, with a buffer ( me ) that has been in the business long enough to send them back and get corrected. Show you the development pattern and the rights and wrongs, in page development, you would over not to many projects start to speed up in the process. Keep in mind I had a company that was developing right at 2 pages a day.. well let me rephrase that we were COMPLETING 2 sites a day.

I know a thing or 2 about production.

Originally Posted by jarod b

With that said, there is another line I agree with. You said to stop pulling more clients into my existing funnel of confusion. Yes it is a bit confusing, but you forget that the main thing we've been focusing on so far is developing a process while this whole conversation went on. And in that time I've been doing just that. I updated my sales copy earlier (not the thread yet), and basically I am moving communication over to the for-hire thread only or through email. And Dan said to keep track of conversations, and that's exactly why I moved over to email. So now, I have information about the client coming from 2 places and I don't have to worry about my inbox getting full on here anymore and confusing myself with scattered client conversations. I can literally pull up any conversation with gmail's search feature and send emails to myself of clients that posted on my for-hire thread.

I am going to be straight up honest... if for 2 seconds you think Email is your hold up... well youll see. that's the least of your worries. Ill say it again because I can...

21 days since you posted your for hire thread and 26 days since this has started, there is yet to be any completed work.

Originally Posted by jarod b

So that right there is proof that I've been making my funnel less confusing, and I've been working on it and not talking with you guys the whole time.

PROOF.. at this point would be a completed project - 21 days since you posted your for hire thread and 26 days since this has started, there is yet to be any completed work.

Originally Posted by jarod b

As for clients, yes I'm not the most productive web designer or super amazing like the other designers around here. But I am learning, and as you know, we both agreed that WP was much better than HTML websites. So now I'll learn WP and then I can eventually improve my turnaround as I gain experience from juggling multiple responsibilities as a freelancer.

But what about the client you are working on and the what 2 or 3 you just landed?

WHAT ARE YOU DOING?

Originally Posted by jarod b

But to get to the point, because I am going left and right here — I've made up my mind. I like the offer you had, but I have to be realistic about this and say this wouldn't be realistic any longer after I'm done learning enough and then I have to keep up with the industry. And I truly think that's where your offer has flawed. You forgot the web industry is fast-paced.

I forgot? REALLY? YOU HAVE NO CLUE..... that is why I took a complete HTML5 CSS3 production firm late last year to about a damn near 100% wordpress production firm.. as in basically flipped a switch, and said here is what we are doing. And I took same said company again this year from a straight wordpress site production , and we are now 100% doing CRO. In this regard... I am balls to the wall no questions asked the MOST adaptive owner you will ever have an opportunity to speak with.

Originally Posted by jarod b

I think SEO guys will also agree when I especially reference the annoying Google updates that can literally kill a site in weeks. Same for web designers following new trends each year... and then developers coming out with so many frameworks each month. It's just not realistic after that, and time is the issue here. So thanks for the offer, but I don't think it will be best for me and my career.

THIS SEO guy would actually tell you the exact opposite. I have more than one rant on this forum in regards to how SEO hasn't really changed that much. and design? well here is a thread, specifically post #9 http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...eople-buy.html Examples of PRINT marketing. the thing to notice here. There is a focus on the headlines, but look at the pages. Headline, bullets of benefits, and a CTA. Some of the examples are from the 1960's AS MUCH AS THINGS CHANGE,THEY REMAIN THE SAME. The only things that has changed in advertising after all of these years.... is the method in which the message is delivered!

All I can tell you at this point. Get a job, complete a job, get the next one. You will know when you can take on more, and then work into the juggle. Right now you cant keep one ball afloat, let alone 2 or 3.

And Jarod... please don't respond to this.. it takes you to long. You could be completing some work for these clients you have... I seriously am trying to help you, and I don't need to be hindering production.

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Underground

9 years ago

Savidge, he completed a project for me the other day.

It was a great experience. He's learning the right things at the right pace. It's completely out of whack with reality what you are saying and the picture you are trying to paint of him.

He's moving the direction he has wanted to for years and is very quick in making amendments to how he does things based on the feedback. Your offer wasn't right for him, he's given you a good and polite reason why after considering it.

It would be better if it was just left there.

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kirbymarketingconcierge 9 years ago

any chance we can liven this up with some sex, drugs, and rock n roll???

"as the thread turns"

these are the "days of our thread lives'

A soap opera, soapie, or soap is a serial drama on television or radio which features related story lines about the lives of multiple characters.

"the young and the restless WF members"

"Guru guiding light"

"the bold, the beautiful, and a thread with over 8800 views"

wiil Jarod respond or not,... to savidge?
will Underground, get hammered, for his recent post??
will Kirby drop off this thread, before he goes insane???

stay tuned.....

*all and any individual references or to any WF members, are based on fictional (virtual) characters and only used for entertainment purposes.

** no animals were used in the making of this post

*** no WF members were injured in the production of this post
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savidge4

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Underground

Savidge, he completed a project for me the other day.

It was a great experience. He's learning the right things at the right pace. It's completely out of whack with reality what you are saying and the picture you are trying to paint of him.

He's moving the direction he has wanted to for years and is very quick in making amendments to how he does things based on the feedback. Your offer wasn't right for him, he's given you a good and polite reason why after considering it.

It would be better if it was just left there.

Underground,

Hey that's GREAT he completed something. BUT he never communicated it here... you know of all places to share an accomplishment.. of all places that someone like me has been targeting the fact that no work is getting COMPLETE.

1 word... COMMUNICATION

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savidge4 9 years ago

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savidge4 9 years ago

There is something that I would like to point out in this. Underground had a good experience with Jarod, I have stated before that given a task, Jarod is very efficient. The required skills that are needed in regards to coding are obviously there. But in both cases we are talking about manipulating an existing project - or let it be noted that is what I am assuming was the case with Underground.

Freelancing at the desired level as Jarod has indicated and developing a website for clients from the ground up vs the menial tasks that he is quickly and efficiently able to complete are 2 far and distant things.

One is your basic employee mentality ability. Is Jarod good at being told a specific task and completing? yes he is. The other is at a level of self discipline and motivation with a good mix of communication. Can Jarod from the initial point of contact with a clients, convert that clients vision and content and create a page? well that in itself is something that has yet to be proven.

These are the skills that are needed to be developed, if there is to be success in Jarod's future. Jarod is more than capable, and as stated now with 2 examples from 2 different people, he can absolutely complete a task that is very specifically laid out.

This is where I am coming from when I say that Jarod right now needs to forget the juggling, and FOCUS on one project at a time. There has been 2 cases now where this method is actually working for him. Take what is working and develop and move forward with that.

Consider the exercise of getting 5 clients as a stress test. with that experience there needs to be some reflection of what worked and what didn't. FOCUS on what didn't work, and work towards corrections. That doesn't mean that you need to keep stacking clients on to work out the kinks in your process. Less potential loss and a greater amount of gain can be had at this point following a one in one out process.
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- kirbymarketingconcierge 9 years ago
  
  business lesson 101:
  
  contractual and verbal outline of work to be performed,
  time frame,
  performance measures,
  
  out clause for both parties,
  
  sign off on expected duties, obligations, and RESULTS.
  
  I have no problem ( I don't beg for clients, and Need them),
  I have no problem with failure
  
  firing myself or a client is just business.
  
  COMMUNICATION meets EXPECTATION
  
  Thanks
  
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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

Great job man. It's good see you are still going forward with your plan, even after all the pushing that was done. Nothing but respect can be given for that.

So, you have more clients coming on - and you are struggling to stay organized. I've tried a LOT of different Project Management tools, and the one I finally settled on is Wrike. it has been the best by far. It's free for the basic features you need, and it will grow with you.

They key here is not to get bogged down in technology. Pick something that will help you stay organized, and use it. People get hung up tweaking and trying things when really all that matters is getting the work done and servicing customers.

I think it is awesome that you kept going after the beating you took here, from myself and others. That shows something in you that all of us missed.

That kind of decisive mindset will take you far! I publicly apologize for all the shoving, judging, and negativity. You have shown your true colors.

Get these 5 clients handled and make sure they are happy before bothering with the freelance sites.

I want you to begin thinking about how long each project takes you to complete. To make $30K per year, working 50 hours per week (eventually when you are full-time at this) - you need to make $12.50 per hour. Let's round it up to $15.

So - if you are spending 5 hours on each project, you will eventually charge minimum $75 each so you can hit your goal.

The amount of time it takes, and how much you charge will depend on your processes and approach. The only way to know is to start keeping track. Don't put too much stress on it at this point.

Right now, the only thing that matters is getting the work delivered. Later, when you have that stuff figured out better, you will start thinking about delivering in the most optimal way possible. Eventually, the time it takes for each project will go down, and the amount you charge will go way up. Eventually, you will be able to charge well over $1,000 per project.

Yes if some other info I have is true - he was wiser than all of us.

Yes. This is what I've always wanted to do from the very beginning. I've already looked into other paths that a web designer can take, and I like this one the most.

I like the Wrike website you talked about and went ahead and setup my projects a little. At my intern, we use Asana, and this one is way better. Also I'm glad you talked about tweaking again, i was thinking about setting up the project later on today, but I'll just do it when I get ready to work on the projects tomorrow. That way I won't be fiddling so much and I'll be adding in tasks that really matter.

It's cool. Ya know, Jason Kanigan said in a post that people give up too soon, and at first, I thought he was talking about it in general terms. But then he talked about linear thinking vs exponential thinking, and how it undermines our patience with lack of results. I really had to sit down and make up my mind that I won't give up early even if I'm not seeing results right away. And so one thing that stuck with me is that patience is a big deal when running a business. And if I don't have it, I'm going to have a rough time. So I've just been conditioning myself and really being more serious about being honest with my fears, assumptions and habits, and the feedback I get has been a very valueable asset so far. It kind of reminds me of something that someone once said and it's that "no one can do it for you, but you also can't do it alone"

By the way, I got my first client satisfied today, and he is going to write up a review for me. I was soooo happy to read his email, I read his email over like 4 times smiling super hard XD. One thing he mentioned about me is that my thorough feedback was great, and it's something I am going to use when I deal with customers more. Thanks for the advice about giving clients updates. They love it a LOT!

Hmm I never thought about tracking my projects recently. I've just been more focused on improving my service and customer skills. I will remember that. Matter fact, there is one lady right now that wants her website to be done in 1 month, and I think it will be useful to track how long it takes me to get certain tasks done on projects.

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TeKn1qu3z

9 years ago

There's a lot of great information here. I'm running a similar model and I can say you really need to interview, research, screen, and test the services of your outsource companies. Test it on your own projects before using them for clients, because once you break that client trust, it's really hard to get back.

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DaniMc 9 years ago

Originally Posted by thet

Yes. But isn't there a difference between lowering your standards and simply be happy with what you have?

I am supremely happy with what I have. Yet I am still pushing for higher standards for myself.

I am totally satisfied with my life - but will not become complacent with my personal growth.

The outer life is a result of inner developments. To be complacent with my current situation is to be complacent with my personal growth. And that just isn't OK with me.

I have learned to lead, manage, earn, love, give, and win to a certain degree - but I know that personally I am not nearly as good in any of these areas as I have the potential to be.

And that is what it really comes down to - potential.

All of us have stunningly high potential. Few of us try to reach it. I will not stop until I see just how good I can be.

How pathetic to see a Cheetah who never runs at top speed. He never knows just what he is capable of. He isn't doing what he is born to do - run.

How pathetic is the person who never reaches top speed. They never know just what they are capable of. They aren't doing what they are born to do - achieve, create, contribute.

Again - we have to have standards, why not high standards? We have to work anyway - why not earn as much as possible?

If I am going to spend 2,500 hours per year working - why not maximize just how much I can get back for each of those hours?

And in a few years, I will be able to stop working, and live off the residual income of the businesses I have built. While others are slaving away just to get by.

We are alive for a limited number of years. Chasing my potential has enabled me to have experiences that make my life wonderful. Riding ATV's through the forest with my son. Skiing with my family every few weeks. Spending 8-10 days at a time on beautiful beaches in beautiful locations. Spending a month just touring around Europe with my wife. Helping people who need help.

Is it not a worthy goal to become knowledgeable and sophisticated enough to be able to help people achieve the things they want to achieve?

Others may say "I will just decide to be happy with what I have" - but that is a damned lie. They aren't being honest.

They are settling for coming up short on their potential. They are giving up on chasing their dreams. They can choose that if they want.

But - it isn't for me.
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sunoy14

9 years ago

There are some people who are happy though they are poor. They don't expect much of themselves either. One of my friend is like that. I don't understand how they can allow themselves to be like that.

But sometimes I think - "Well... there might be different approaches to life".

But honestly sitll, they look like losers

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sunoy14

9 years ago

Others may say "I will just decide to be happy with what I have" - but that is a damned lie. They aren't being honest.

That's completely true in my opinion. I've met many people including friends who said they'll be happy with what they have all the time. But I came to know later that they too have their secret wish.

The difference? Theirs are wishes and they have put a dead end to it...... Mine is ambition and I'm paving my way

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kirbymarketingconcierge

9 years ago

I have the answer!

the closest I've experienced.

this is not me, I have not the life to be a real expert.

but if your struggling with this back and forth,

from Dan's side to Thet's "to be honest", and choosing to be happy and poor.

google victor frankl and "the power to choose", & "the meaning of life"

from a guy who worked with suicide patients (pretty real),
from a guy who was in a nazi concentration camp (real beyond belief),
from a guy who's almost enitre family (1 sister I think survived), was killed,

good luck on your own journey.

When we are no longer able to change a situation - we are challenged to change ourselves.
Viktor E. Frankl

Read more at Viktor E. Frankl Quotes - BrainyQuote

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jarod b

9 years ago

Originally Posted by kirbymarketingconcierge

I have the answer!

the closest I've experienced.

this is not me, I have not the life to be a real expert.

but if your struggling with this back and forth,

from Dan's side to Thet's "to be honest", and choosing to be happy and poor.

google victor frankl and "the power to choose", & "the meaning of life"

from a guy who worked with suicide patients (pretty real),
from a guy who was in a nazi concentration camp (real beyond belief),
from a guy who's almost enitre family (1 sister I think survived), was killed,

good luck on your own journey.

When we are no longer able to change a situation - we are challenged to change ourselves.
Viktor E. Frankl

Read more at Viktor E. Frankl Quotes - BrainyQuote

I learned about the power of choice in Neil Fiore's book called The Now Habit. So I definitely agree with you. As a matter of fact, it's something I kind of hinted at the moment I started this thread if you look around.

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sunoy14

9 years ago

There is a saying " The poorest are the happiest people ". Sometimes I think that is somewhat true. But that's because of two reasons. The first reason that the poor haven't invested time on career and invested his life on other things. He has learned to adjust. The second that many of the people who invest their time in career success, become obsessed and don't invest some time in other life skills.

I think neither the one's who say that they'll be happy and poor are true (You can't be happy when your sons and daughters have to live hungry half of the day). So that's really a damned lie.

Nor can one be happy by focusing everything on one thing and forgetting to develop other skills like relationship and other things.

So there has to be a balance.

When you are sure that nothing is going to work, then you have to make compromises. But that should be the last option. But many people use that as an excuse. Besides when is someone 100% sure when trying something new? Never.

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thet

9 years ago

You said something interesting that striked me, Savidge

You need to get the blinders off of what you think your path is

Can you go a bit deeper into this?
How I see it, and I am probably wrong because career-wise, you are a lot further then me, hence I am asking, is that you need to lay out a vision where you want to go and a path how you will get there.
Here you say,
you need to take the blinders off.
Which is interesting,
Do you simply mean, go with the flow?

Lately I have been thinking a lot about focusing on one thing, to become single-minded about that one thing until I get really good at that.
The way I hear what you are saying is (which may be not the way you mean it all), go on your path, until something comes along that gives you a chance to take a step further.
So,
for me,
let's say my company says: Thet, we want you to do [pick something way different then marketing and sales] I should say yes.

Is that what you are saying?

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savidge4

9 years ago

Originally Posted by thet

How I see it, and I am probably wrong because career-wise, you are a lot further then me, hence I am asking, is that you need to lay out a vision where you want to go and a path how you will get there.

I am going to say that regardless of the level that you are playing at, the overall principles remain the same. As I recall, you have a Dream to make $1,000,000 a year. but as it stands you are making $25,000 a year. The suggestion was then made to not lower the expectation of the Dream, but set a goal, or $50,000 a year as a stepping stone to fulfilling your Dream.

Again regardless of level, I follow the exact same principles. "I have a Dream" ( MLK pun of sorts... NICE! ) and will lay out achievable goals in the process of obtaining that Dream. - I have said this a few times... Dreams without goals, are simply Dreams. Goals are what make Dreams obtainable.

Originally Posted by thet

Here you say,
you need to take the blinders off.
Which is interesting,
Do you simply mean, go with the flow?

I am as guilty in this as I am sure everyone here. You have a Dream, and you lay out a SET path of goals. goal 1 - goal 2 - goal 3 - goal 4 - goal 5 - goal 6 etc = DREAM. You get so focused on reaching each goal and moving forward, that there are times that you will miss an opportunity looking you straight in the face that is outside of YOUR set path. So not so much go with the flow as understand that along any path there are high roads and low roads, but regardless the path followed, the outcome is the same.

Originally Posted by thet

Lately I have been thinking a lot about focusing on one thing, to become single-minded about that one thing until I get really good at that.

A great Buddhist principle and lesson. Use a bowl, wash a bowl, put the bowl away. The most mundane and simplest of tasks... but the focus required is retarded. And then, following this in your own home.. the flack you will get from your significant other is mind blowing. Start with the simplest of tasks in your life, and develop and grow that pattern from there.

Originally Posted by thet

The way I hear what you are saying is (which may be not the way you mean it all), go on your path, until something comes along that gives you a chance to take a step further.

The path specifically... is the step. what is obtained on that path is what takes you a step further. A quote from Confucius: “It does not matter how slowly you go as long as you do not stop.”

Originally Posted by thet

So, for me,
let's say my company says: Thet, we want you to do [pick something way different then marketing and sales] I should say yes.

I am going to say to look at the last 2 pages of this very thread. REGRET is the outcome of a lack in communication. THIS is truly a life lesson and I will say it again. REGRET is the outcome of a lack in communication. YOU have a Dream, you have laid out this set path of goals to obtain that Dream. Someone or something comes along, and offers something different than what you have laid out in your mind. Instead of instinctively saying "NO" Let loose the path that YOU have laid out, keep the DREAM in perspective, and ask questions. Simply being aware that any and all offers MAY or MAY NOT be of use to YOU, and your Dream.

Originally Posted by thet

Is that what you are saying?

You tell me, was it?

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thet

9 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

I am going to say that regardless of the level that you are playing at, the overall principles remain the same. As I recall, you have a Dream to make $1,000,000 a year. but as it stands you are making $25,000 a year. The suggestion was then made to not lower the expectation of the Dream, but set a goal, or $50,000 a year as a stepping stone to fulfilling your Dream.

Again regardless of level, I follow the exact same principles. "I have a Dream" ( MLK pun of sorts... NICE! ) and will lay out achievable goals in the process of obtaining that Dream. - I have said this a few times... Dreams without goals, are simply Dreams. Goals are what make Dreams obtainable.

I am as guilty in this as I am sure everyone here. You have a Dream, and you lay out a SET path of goals. goal 1 - goal 2 - goal 3 - goal 4 - goal 5 - goal 6 etc = DREAM. You get so focused on reaching each goal and moving forward, that there are times that you will miss an opportunity looking you straight in the face that is outside of YOUR set path. So not so much go with the flow as understand that along any path there are high roads and low roads, but regardless the path followed, the outcome is the same.

A great Buddhist principle and lesson. Use a bowl, wash a bowl, put the bowl away. The most mundane and simplest of tasks... but the focus required is retarded. And then, following this in your own home.. the flack you will get from your significant other is mind blowing. Start with the simplest of tasks in your life, and develop and grow that pattern from there.

The path specifically... is the step. what is obtained on that path is what takes you a step further. A quote from Confucius: "It does not matter how slowly you go as long as you do not stop."

I am going to say to look at the last 2 pages of this very thread. REGRET is the outcome of a lack in communication. THIS is truly a life lesson and I will say it again. REGRET is the outcome of a lack in communication. YOU have a Dream, you have laid out this set path of goals to obtain that Dream. Someone or something comes along, and offers something different than what you have laid out in your mind. Instead of instinctively saying "NO" Let loose the path that YOU have laid out, keep the DREAM in perspective, and ask questions. Simply being aware that any and all offers MAY or MAY NOT be of use to YOU, and your Dream.

You tell me, was it?

Well. That's where preparation comes into play. If i never learn about accumulating money i will not recognise the opportunity once it's there. If i never read a book on prospecting i might miss a big opportunity if i am not aware of how to tackle a certain objection. When the student is ready the master will come.

So i decided my goal and i am building the path. When something comes along its up to me to decide if that path is better. Jarod missed a really big opportunity.

So i think it's not that black and white. If a opportunity in the form of recruitment comes knocking at my door i would say no even if i can make big bucks there. It's not the right path for me

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savidge4

9 years ago

Originally Posted by thet

Well. That's where preparation comes into play. If i never learn about accumulating money i will not recognise the opportunity once it's there. If i never read a book on prospecting i might miss a big opportunity if i am not aware of how to tackle a certain objection. When the student is ready the master will come.

So i decided my goal and i am building the path. When something comes along its up to me to decide if that path is better. Jarod missed a really big opportunity.

So i think it's not that black and white. If a opportunity in the form of recruitment comes knocking at my door i would say no even if i can make big bucks there. It's not the right path for me

I can see it already, this is going to sound new age as all get out. I would say you are sending the "Universe" mixed messages. I want to make $1,000,000 a year... BUT I want to do it this way. The "Universe" WILL present you offers to obtain that Dream, but they will not fit the form, as you have it set.

You will continue to beat yourself over the head, I cant... I wont... I will never... and over and over and over the form of the presentation will differ, but the outcome remains the same. If you set a Dream, and remain mindful to that Dream, Its not the destination that is truly important, is the path that is followed. The moment you define the path, you are LIMITING the potential for the Dream. Out of all of the millions of possibilities that our lives can offer, you have scripted but ONE set of goals. a single path to obtaining your Dream.

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savidge4

9 years ago

As an example of my above post. Jarod, has shared his personal situation, and the fact that he wants to get out of that, and move forward with his life. MORE THAN ONCE has someone said "Hey can you do some graphics for me?" and each and every time he has declined.

In one breath he is complaining about not having the money to constantly bump his thread, and in the next breath he is telling people "No" I don't need money. we are talking REPEATEDLY here, as I said in the above post. again and again and again, the "Universe" will provide what you need, BUT it may not come in the defined form, you have set for yourself.

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thet

9 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

As an example of my above post. Jarod, has shared his personal situation, and the fact that he wants to get out of that, and move forward with his life. MORE THAN ONCE has someone said "Hey can you do some graphics for me?" and each and every time he has declined.

In one breath he is complaining about not having the money to constantly bump his thread, and in the next breath he is telling people "No" I don't need money. we are talking REPEATEDLY here, as I said in the above post. again and again and again, the "Universe" will provide what you need, BUT it may not come in the defined form, you have set for yourself.

So, you are saying, when something comes your way that gives you the opportunity to get to your goal. Take it.
Sounds obvious enough. But you can't say yes to everything right?

Let's say they ask me to do more administrative work, how will get that me to 1.000.000?
Now,
if I got asked to do more sales or marketing related tasks? God yes.
However,
when somebody asks me to learn HTML5, then ..Well, then, i might need to say yes?
Because "the universe" is giving me my answer?

I don't really believe in that new age stuff but I do believe in being clear to intentions

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savidge4

9 years ago

Originally Posted by thet

So, you are saying, when something comes your way that gives you the opportunity to get to your goal. Take it.
Sounds obvious enough. But you can't say yes to everything right?

No, you cant say yes to everything, I will agree with that. However, you need to look back and see if there is a repeated pattern of denial on your part. I started at probably your age, maybe a bit younger, writing down every time I was offered something, and weather I took it, or declined. from time to time to this day, I look at this list, now 5 notepads later, and look for patterns. Your not new age or philosophical but I am, I believe in Destiny. Destiny is that pre determined path, that you are "Supposed" to be on, but through free choice, we tend to fall from the path, into directions we feel is right, but ends up not being intended. My list... is that reminder of that repeated cycle of the "Universe" trying to place me back on the correct path.

Originally Posted by thet

Let's say they ask me to do more administrative work, how will get that me to 1.000.000?

Ill answer this and you probably wont like it. Administrative leads to being a head of a department... to being a regional director, to being a VP, to being a President, to becoming an owner. Without question this COULD be a path to your goal. Again a million possible paths, and you are choosing ONE.

Originally Posted by thet

Now,
if I got asked to do more sales or marketing related tasks? God yes.

How does that play out for you? specifically what does that path look like?

Originally Posted by thet

However,
when somebody asks me to learn HTML5, then ..Well, then, i might need to say yes?
Because "the universe" is giving me my answer?

Again, how does this play out for you? what does it look like?

Let me be more specific with this one. I will assume it has been offered? Have you thought of counter offering a deal that says you pay to teach me this, and I build you that, and I take a percentage of that?

Its not the HTML5 that will move you along your path, its the leverage you gain with each of these skills you obtain.

Originally Posted by thet

I don't really believe in that new age stuff but I do believe in being clear to intentions

I tend to keep my mouth shut as to what I believe in. <edit - to late for that one! > but I will tell you this, your thought base is not much different than mine, or Dans, it would just seem that I am the only one to admit its a bit new age, and in reality, my beliefs stem from Eastern Philosophy, so they are not really that "New"

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savidge4 9 years ago

Oh jeeze...
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thet

9 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

No, you cant say yes to everything, I will agree with that. However, you need to look back and see if there is a repeated pattern of denial on your part. I started at probably your age, maybe a bit younger, writing down every time I was offered something, and weather I took it, or declined. from time to time to this day, I look at this list, now 5 notepads later, and look for patterns. Your not new age or philosophical but I am, I believe in Destiny. Destiny is that pre determined path, that you are "Supposed" to be on, but through free choice, we tend to fall from the path, into directions we feel is right, but ends up not being intended. My list... is that reminder of that repeated cycle of the "Universe" trying to place me back on the correct path.

Ill answer this and you probably wont like it. Administrative leads to being a head of a department... to being a regional director, to being a VP, to being a President, to becoming an owner. Without question this COULD be a path to your goal. Again a million possible paths, and you are choosing ONE.

How does that play out for you? specifically what does that path look like?

Again, how does this play out for you? what does it look like?

Let me be more specific with this one. I will assume it has been offered? Have you thought of counter offering a deal that says you pay to teach me this, and I build you that, and I take a percentage of that?

Its not the HTML5 that will move you along your path, its the leverage you gain with each of these skills you obtain.

I tend to keep my mouth shut as to what I believe in. <edit - to late for that one! > but I will tell you this, your thought base is not much different than mine, or Dans, it would just seem that I am the only one to admit its a bit new age, and in reality, my beliefs stem from Eastern Philosophy, so they are not really that "New"

HTML5 has not been offered, was just an example because i have been thinking about learning how to code in the past. It came up.

But,
to answer your question. I guess it doesn't matter much then,because in all cases I would end up as a manager first, then senior manager, VP etc

So, the road doesn't matter. I don't think there is so much difference in pay between a Inside sales manager, marketing manager and sales manager.
Or a VP, for that matter.

Is that where you where going with this?

by the way, I am not sure you realise how old I am. I might seem a bit immature career-wise in my thinking, but I am far over 25 ;-) but below 35 haha

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savidge4

9 years ago

Originally Posted by thet

HTML5 has not been offered, was just an example because i have been thinking about learning how to code in the past. It came up.

But,
to answer your question. I guess it doesn't matter much then,because in all cases I would end up as a manager first, then senior manager, VP etc

So, the road doesn't matter. I don't think there is so much difference in pay between a Inside sales manager, marketing manager and sales manager.
Or a VP, for that matter.

Is that where you where going with this?

by the way, I am not sure you realise how old I am. I might seem a bit immature career-wise in my thinking, but I am far over 25 ;-) but below 35 haha

Inside sales Manager: median average: $70,000 Inside Sales Manager Salary | Salary.com

Marketing Manager: median average: $86,000 Marketing Manager Salary | Salary.com

Sales Manager: Median average: $48,000 Sales Manager Salary | Indeed.com a regional sales manager tips the scale in the $100,000 range.

VP: Median average appears to be about $175,000 Vice President Salary | Salary.com

so to say they are the same kind a sort a... no not really.

I am actually not really pointing at a specific direction.. I am trying to have yourself ask "Why have I chosen this specific path?" and then look at other possible paths to the same end. and being OPEN, if any of those paths were to present themselves.

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thet

9 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

Inside sales Manager: median average: $70,000 Inside Sales Manager Salary | Salary.com

Marketing Manager: median average: $86,000 Marketing Manager Salary | Salary.com

Sales Manager: Median average: $48,000 Sales Manager Salary | Indeed.com a regional sales manager tips the scale in the $100,000 range.

VP: Median average appears to be about $175,000 Vice President Salary | Salary.com

so to say they are the same kind a sort a... no not really.

I am actually not really pointing at a specific direction.. I am trying to have yourself ask "Why have I chosen this specific path?" and then look at other possible paths to the same end. and being OPEN, if any of those paths were to present themselves.

After graduation (which I did a bit late in life) I needed a job to pay rent. I got intro recruitment and now I am still in sales.
Its nothing more then a "needed to pay the rent, now, lets make the most out of it" type of thing

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savidge4

9 years ago

Originally Posted by thet

After graduation (which I did a bit late in life) I needed a job to pay rent. I got intro recruitment and now I am still in sales.
Its nothing more then a "needed to pay the rent, now, lets make the most out of it" type of thing

ok I get it... but you are the one with the $1,000,000 Dream correct? You are the one with the $50,000 a year by the end of the year goal correct? and you are existing in a "needed to pay the rent, now, lets make the most out of it" world.

DO YOU SEE THE CONTRAST?

I want this....

But I have this....

I am working on what it is I want....

But I am keeping what I have.....

There needs to be a balance in what you HAVE... in order to get what you WANT. right now... its more than obviously a miss match.

I want to make $50,000 a year

but I currently have $25,000

Aside from YOUR MIND what has to change in this scenario to make that Goal feasible?

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thet

9 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

ok I get it... but you are the one with the $1,000,000 Dream correct? You are the one with the $50,000 a year by the end of the year goal correct? and you are existing in a "needed to pay the rent, now, lets make the most out of it" world.

DO YOU SEE THE CONTRAST?

I want this....

But I have this....

I am working on what it is I want....

But I am keeping what I have.....

There needs to be a balance in what you HAVE... in order to get what you WANT. right now... its more than obviously a miss match.

I want to make $50,000 a year

but I currently have $25,000

Aside from YOUR MIND what has to change in this scenario to make that Goal feasible?

No, i wouldn't dare to dream about 1.000.000 a year. Maybe 100k

Not sure what needs to change. I need to keep my job in the first place. And get good at what I do. There are lots of things I need to do.

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savidge4

9 years ago

Originally Posted by thet

No, i wouldn't dare to dream about 1.000.000 a year. Maybe 100k

Not sure what needs to change. I need to keep my job in the first place. And get good at what I do. There are lots of things I need to do.

I am going to be straight honest here.. to read that, followed by your quote in your signature:
"Recognize reality even when you don't like it - especially when you don't like it.
— Charlie Munger "

is painful.

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thet

9 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

I am going to be straight honest here.. to read that, followed by your quote in your signature:
"Recognize reality even when you don't like it - especially when you don't like it.
-- Charlie Munger "

is painful.

Why?
the reality is that I have rent to pay. The reality is that people count on me. I am trying to make the best out of my career.

What reality am I missing here that I don't like?

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savidge4

9 years ago

Originally Posted by thet

Why?
the reality is that I have rent to pay. The reality is that people count on me. I am trying to make the best out of my career.

What reality am I missing here that I don't like?

I think that just from the many posts of yours I have read I could name a few. you got passed up from the sales promotion by some guys they pulled from the outside.. I recall you being a bit bitter about that. Your boss is giving you other work to keep you busy and complacent. have you ever for just one moment thought that the reason you are where you are at, is because you are good at it, and the boss would be a flat out fool, for moving you on, and having to hire and train a new you?

You are using the "rent and responsibility" as leverage AGANST yourself. when in fact from what I can see ( based on what you have written ) YOU have far more leverage than you could imaging.

You are SEEING your reality in a whoa is me manor, but the reality is your BOSS has paid you a very high compliment. At the same time, there has to be some degree of him knowing he still has control, and leverage in keeping you there.. and is feeding you bones as such to do so.

THAT IS YOUR REALITY - if you like it or not ( again as I can see it from the words you have shared. )

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thet

9 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

I think that just from the many posts of yours I have read I could name a few. you got passed up from the sales promotion by some guys they pulled from the outside.. I recall you being a bit bitter about that. Your boss is giving you other work to keep you busy and complacent. have you ever for just one moment thought that the reason you are where you are at, is because you are good at it, and the boss would be a flat out fool, for moving you on, and having to hire and train a new you?

You are using the "rent and responsibility" as leverage AGANST yourself. when in fact from what I can see ( based on what you have written ) YOU have far more leverage than you could imaging.

You are SEEING your reality in a whoa is me manor, but the reality is your BOSS has paid you a very high compliment. At the same time, there has to be some degree of him knowing he still has control, and leverage in keeping you there.. and is feeding you bones as such to do so.

THAT IS YOUR REALITY - if you like it or not ( again as I can see it from the words you have shared. )

Not sure how to take it to be honest. Complacent doesn't sound good, neither does 'feeding a bone'.

How am I using it as leverage against myself? Where do I have more leverage then I can imagine?

I am missing some points here. Sorry.

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savidge4

9 years ago

Originally Posted by thet

Not sure how to take it to be honest. Complacent doesn't sound good, neither does 'feeding a bone'.

How am I using it as leverage against myself? Where do I have more leverage then I can imagine?

I am missing some points here. Sorry.

Think... think hard... why would he want you to get into the marketing side of the business? Chances I am guessing is you are filling his sales funnel like it has never been filled. to the point he right in front of your face brought in MORE sales staff, and I am sure had some lame excuse ( I don't recall if you mentioned one, and its 5:30 in the morning and I am to tired to look and see )

So why would he want you to get into the marketing aspect of HIS business... because you understand the part of his business that most here would say is the most difficult. PRE QUALIFYING. What is marketing? It really isn't "Selling" its pre-qualifying.

You really should not be PISSED of this revelation.. you should be taking pride in it. You are already good at something... and taking steps to get better... take all that in and again, think for just a moment... what are you REALLY worth?

You think you are worth paying rent and providing for others. THAT is the leverage that you are using against yourself. You didn't dare speak to your boss about it... why? because you have rent to pay and people to provide for. To be honest, there is nothing wrong with it, but to see it for what it really is, places your fundamental understanding of where you ARE, and were you WANT to be, in a different perspective.

I am in no way saying go in to work any different than you did yesterday or the day before. I am not even saying confront the man... you DO have rent to pay, and people provide for. Learning the level of leverage you DO have, and how it can work in your favor, is something you need to look at.

Have sales year over year increased? has there been a percentage increase in recent years that was the same or better? The more you understand the scope of your reality and the position you are playing in it, determines the value, and leverage that you may or may not possess.

The complacency comes from the very reason you are at the job in the first place. Jobs are hard to find yada yada yada... you have issues with self worth.... you have rent to pay and people to provide for.

As long as you believe you are a victim of your circumstances, and that you are stuck were you are at, you will remain there. ( and I am not speaking in the physical sense )

and with that I am off to bed for an hour and 15 minutes!

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iAmNameLess

9 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

I can see it already, this is going to sound new age as all get out. I would say you are sending the "Universe" mixed messages. I want to make $1,000,000 a year... BUT I want to do it this way. The "Universe" WILL present you offers to obtain that Dream, but they will not fit the form, as you have it set.

I would say the universe doesn't give a flying fudge about what signals you give it. LOL.

I never pegged you as a new ager lol

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thet

9 years ago

the universe is neutral

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savidge4

9 years ago

Originally Posted by thet

the universe is neutral

The Universe is actually neutral, yes, but it is free choice that has things all messed up. Like I keep saying of all the millions of choices to make, why have you made that ONE?

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iAmNameLess

9 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

The Universe is actually neutral, yes, but it is free choice that has things all messed up. Like I keep saying of all the millions of choices to make, why have you made that ONE?

If the universe is neutral, it doesn't matter what signals you give it. And if it is free choice that has things all messed up, then using the same logic would conclude that the universe doesn't give a damn what you do, it is your own choice where you end up.

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savidge4

9 years ago

Originally Posted by iAmNameLess

If the universe is neutral, it doesn't matter what signals you give it. And if it is free choice that has things all messed up, then using the same logic would conclude that the universe doesn't give a damn what you do, it is your own choice where you end up.

As warped as this is going to sound... neutrality is but 1 of 3 sides of the coin. if neutrality is the outer edge of the coin, then pain is one side, and peace is the other. CHOICE does dictate what side of the coin you exist. The "Universe" as a neutral force presents elements in your life to draw you away from excess be it on the side of peace OR pain.

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iAmNameLess

9 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

As warped as this is going to sound... neutrality is but 1 of 3 sides of the coin. if neutrality is the outer edge of the coin, then pain is one side, and peace is the other. CHOICE does dictate what side of the coin you exist. The "Universe" as a neutral force presents elements in your life to draw you away from excess be it on the side of peace OR pain.

Stop it! LMFAO!!

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iAmNameLess

9 years ago

but hey.... just for good measure...

Hey Universe, people of the interwebs and those Google machine magicians... please make me a billionaire. K.. thanks.

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thet

9 years ago

Interesting. What you are saying is: I don't place my value any higher then: Being able to pay rent and provide. Which isn't bad, but it's definetely a self-worth issue because I could view myself as a very important aspect of a business; prequalifying and be worth to buy myself a Tesla (figure of speak)

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kirbymarketingconcierge 9 years ago

hey Thet.

Self-Worth drill down -
what would Dan McCoy say he is worth?
what would you say YOU are worth? look back, then look around

Have you noticed "successful" people around you respond like Dan did in these earlier posts about settling, being poor and happy, etc..,

I have noticed this watching people; failures and those that met their goals.

it's not whether it's right or wrong, no perfect answer to "be happy And rich", no more reading, time to stop analysis paralysis, etc..,

as Tony Robbins said, are lives are dictated by the decisions WE make.
he also said people don't Decide- Commit - and Follow Through because of
Mixed Emotions ( re-read Dan's post, he is Certain)
remember Robbin's talks about Certainty

Savidge coin analogy is good.

you have to decide, while the coin is in the air - heads or tales?

if you don't make the decision, it will be made for you when it hits the ground,

effecting your life, knowing it was externally mandated and not internally driven.

my 2 cents

p.s. - only read savidge's reply, that your company hired from the outside.
I would be so angry. I would look at myself to blame (accountable for this)
and decide on a solution.

this may be my last post on this thread. we can't go in circles. time and effort waster
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DaniMc

9 years ago

What's up Jarod?

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jarod b 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

What's up Jarod?

A busy day for thee young freelancer . Gonna make comments soon. Have to finish up this work really fast.
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jarod b

9 years ago

Alright. FINALLY got back. So many family members and friends needed me tonight. Making those responses as we speak. Then I can crawl in the bed finally.

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jarod b

9 years ago

it seems like this thread went off topic since my last comments from yesterday. It would be great if you guys can stack on track. I don't want a mind muting people for "spamming." Don't blame me if anyone gets reported lol.

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Underground

9 years ago

Yeah, it's great and he's doing well. He did mention it actually in post #261, but I should have posted here as well as on his sales thread.

Finally working with him when he wasn't understandably overwhelmed like most people are when they step into the unknown, his skills, thoroughness and professionalism shone through and it was a job well done.

He's definitely on the right path I'm sure we're all glad to know.

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savidge4

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Underground

Yeah, it's great and he's doing well. He did mention it actually in post #261, but I should have posted here as well as on his sales thread.

Finally working with him when he wasn't understandably overwhelmed like most people are when they step into the unknown, his skills, thoroughness and professionalism shone through and it was a job well done.

He's definitely on the right path I'm sure we're all glad to know.

All the qualities I saw.... no question about it.

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Success is an ACT not an idea

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kirbymarketingconcierge 9 years ago

good job guys.

short and succinct (communication is key) posts.

underground and savidge are true professionals
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iAmNameLess

9 years ago

I think that this thread is about done with. The value provided is probably going to be as good as it gets and that was when it was only 2-3 pages. Perhaps Jarod should start additional threads as he comes across different road blocks and questions he may have.

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kirbymarketingconcierge 9 years ago

agreed.

thanks for coming in.

I don't have the virtual street cred you do.
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- iAmNameLess 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by kirbymarketingconcierge
  
  agreed.
  
  thanks for coming in.
  
  I don't have the virtual street cred you do.
  
  LOL... You crack me up Kirby.
  
  Thanks
  
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  The Best Damn Marketing and Local SEO Blog
  Ultimate Blueprint To Start Your Own Agency | Get Clients Without Cold Calling
  
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