Client Won't Pay Help

26 replies
I have situation where a client owes me money for 37.5 Hours of Work at rate of $35 per hour ($1312.50) The rate of pay, project scope, and work to be performed is outlined in the emails we emailed and he agrees to it.

He refuses to pay me after me because he said after he spoke with a person he met and with his partner, he feels I don't share his vision. He said that after he spoke with this person he now thinks the project should be done in a different manner and he now feels dissatisfied with everything. He says I don't share his vision, so he no longer wants to continue the project and he said he use that money to go in another direction.

To some everything up quickly: I agreed to take his old website and recreate it so its update to date and modern, clean up the text add featured products and services to the site, its a electronic company. He also wanted to utilize my graphic design, SEO, and marketing services as well. He wanted all of his print work redone, and I ended up creating a new product catalog and New logo for his business along with a new slogan/tagline. I completely helped him re-brand his business. Along with that I started doing a bunch of marketing work and lead generation as well. Basically a lot of work was done, and was in the works. The project was suppose to be fairly large, and he paid me $480 so far. He insisted on hourly from the beginning so I went with that and he literally wanted me to justify every little thing I did when billing him. So after the past couple of weeks he said he wanted me to do a whole bunch of work and kick it into gear because he wanted this done asap. Then he was like just bill me for all the work on Friday (Recent) and he is like don't worry about it, what every hours you work, I will pay you immediately.

I sent him complete samples and parts of work that I completed on Friday and a complete breakdown of everything I did. So he had a ton of info and I had already started doing a bunch of marketing and lead generation up to this point. I also unfortunately educated The client on many levels in regards to what he needed to do in order to improve his business etc.

Up until he spoke to the "person" and his partner everything to my knowledge was fine. I believe he was just stringing me along or if he actually spoke to someone they may another idea about things, but non the less everyone has there own opinion on things. There is more than one way to do lots of things. He basically said he changed his mind and that its nothing personal and its just business. This answer kind of pissed me off.

I would like your opinion on how I should handle this, so I can attempt to get paid now. I would prefer not to have to take him and his Company to court, since that is a major hassle. Thank you for reading this.
#client #pay
  • and the contract?
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  • Profile picture of the author RasVas
    I'm going to tell you right now. Some people are douchebags. I had this back and forth with my last client and my contracts were not super tight. She said I didn't deliver I know I delivered some people just wont be satisfied. At least he only owes you 1400. This lady owed my 3k and I still cut my losses because peace is priceless. Can't deal with the disrespect from some people and court and lawsuits are a damn waste of time for small things.

    Sometimes you gotta just walk away man. I don't know how long you have been back and forth but for me it was a month. If you don't have your contracts nice and tight then you might be SOL. Ask for your payment and explain you completed the job or whatever. IF he is still a douche. Then douche yourself of him LOL!
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  • Profile picture of the author RasVas
    Lesson to be learnt here. GET CONTRACTS! Then check them with lawyers. It's the only way to cover your butt
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  • 80/20 rule except on the net it's more 99/1

    99% are douchbags/liars.
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    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
      Banned
      Originally Posted by gettingricherdaily View Post

      80/20 rule except on the net it's more 99/1

      99% are douchbags/liars.
      Hmmmm. That attitude should take you quite far in business and life. I'm assuming, of course that you are in that 1%, correct? lol

      Cheers. - Frank
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  • Profile picture of the author turboshandy
    I'm sorry you have to deal with this, it's not right and definitely not fair!
    Maybe next time ask for money in advance, at least half upfront and the rest after the job is done. Or.. don't deliver the job until you get paid.
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  • Profile picture of the author Oziboomer
    It is never nice when someone doesn't pay.

    Over the years I've had several situations where part payment for work provided was made and in nearly all of those situations unless the client had received the product in full that they are paying for then you will have difficulty in retrieving the funds.

    Contract or not the amount you are chasing is not worth any legal action as you would just end up throwing good money after bad.

    Learn from the experience and be grateful you have $480 for what you've done.

    Every business needs to have an assumption that not all debts will be paid and you should allocate a percentage onto each job to cover the expected losses.

    In some circumstances, but it depends on where you are and you should seek advice on this, you can claim the loss against your profits from a tax point of view which is some consolation.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
      Originally Posted by Oziboomer View Post

      It is never nice when someone doesn't pay.

      Every business needs to have an assumption that not all debts will be paid and you should allocate a percentage onto each job to cover the expected losses.
      This is why I always get enough money up front to cover the cost of doing a project plus a little more for profit.

      Yes I've had non payments as well but I've NEVER gone in the negative because of how I structure my pricing and deposits.
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      • Profile picture of the author IMAnthony
        If you want to go ahead and sue them you might not may show email messages as evidence, some are strictly confidential.
        How can you prove that YOU worked during ALL those hours? At least you have a tracking system like Odesk's you can't.

        Email agreements are not legal contracts, and time involved in attending to court does not worth it.

        See it this way: You just bought a BUNCH of experience, which will save you a LOT of money & time in future for only $1312.50. So it's a 'steal'.

        Now, I'd keep an eye on this project. For example, if any of my graphic work (which was not paid) is used on his project, if ANY piece of MY work is used on his website's re-design, SEO, or any creative ads are used, I'd would find a good lawyer and and I would sue this client, but not for $1k but for a lot more.

        I don't kow what exactly you did, but for example I always put a little Javascript code in my client's websites that I can control from my server and in case them don't want to pay me, I just run it and it displays a big warning like: "This website is deactivated because owner has not made payment to the designer" or something like that. Of course this is only when he states he won't pay. In graphics I always put a waterwark which will be removed once I get paid. And so on.

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      • Profile picture of the author Oziboomer
        Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

        This is why I always get enough money up front to cover the cost of doing a project plus a little more for profit.

        Yes I've had non payments as well but I've NEVER gone in the negative because of how I structure my pricing and deposits.
        For work we're doing we like to take 30% deposit but we offer incentives for upfront payment in full.

        Depending on your industry and location you may be subject to different consumer laws in regards to the percentage of deposit you can ask for project you are working on.

        I know it's a different field but for example a builder in Australia must not demand or receive a deposit of more than:

        5% of any contract where the contract price is $20,000 or more; or
        10% of any contract price that is less than $20,000.

        Many businesses here would not pay more than 10% deposit for anything and in many cases 10% is well below cost.

        Progress payments are another thing however and everyone working on longer projects should have progress payments agreed prior to undertaking work.

        I'm not an International Lawyer so I'm not sure the legalities of asking higher deposits in relation to any work being undertaken by anybody but my intuition and experience sort of tells me the consumer may have slightly more rights that the supplier when it comes to court.

        From personal experience in being involved in winning legal actions whether brought against or brought for various businesses I've been involved in even when you win and are awarded costs the true expense often outweighs the benefits.

        Protecting your own interests and avoiding problems with clients via upfront payments is always good.
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        • Profile picture of the author DABK
          Take down the website you put up, put back his old site.

          Undo what you can easily undo, and move on.

          It sounds to me that you did a bunch of work, showed it to him, and now he thinks he's got a lot of good stuff and can go on on his own.

          Since you were doing SEO, find another client in the same niche, same location, put them ahead of this guy, send monthly reports to this guy with a note: I could have been you.
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        • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
          Yeah some areas here in the US have laws like these especially in the construction space but it's a bit different story with services rendered for non tangible stuff which is what I was referring to here.

          Originally Posted by Oziboomer View Post

          For work we're doing we like to take 30% deposit but we offer incentives for upfront payment in full.

          Depending on your industry and location you may be subject to different consumer laws in regards to the percentage of deposit you can ask for project you are working on.

          I know it's a different field but for example a builder in Australia must not demand or receive a deposit of more than:

          5% of any contract where the contract price is $20,000 or more; or
          10% of any contract price that is less than $20,000.

          Many businesses here would not pay more than 10% deposit for anything and in many cases 10% is well below cost.

          Progress payments are another thing however and everyone working on longer projects should have progress payments agreed prior to undertaking work.

          I'm not an International Lawyer so I'm not sure the legalities of asking higher deposits in relation to any work being undertaken by anybody but my intuition and experience sort of tells me the consumer may have slightly more rights that the supplier when it comes to court.

          From personal experience in being involved in winning legal actions whether brought against or brought for various businesses I've been involved in even when you win and are awarded costs the true expense often outweighs the benefits.

          Protecting your own interests and avoiding problems with clients via upfront payments is always good.
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  • Profile picture of the author QueenMelanie
    ahh, yess, the douchebag client! unfortunately you are always going to encounter some of these from time to time.. I personally went through something similar a few weeks ago..

    have a contract that is signed by both parties or use an escrow service to guarantee payments, they are the least you can do!
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Id say that if you are in the states, and you are being paid by the hour. and you have proof you were paid 1 time before... make a quick threat that you will call the Attorney Generals office and file a complaint unless you are paid. he will laugh at you, but follow through,and you will laugh last!
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  • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
    If they're local you could take them to small claims court. If not, you could undo everything you did on the site. He didn't share the same vision anyway, right?
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  • Sorry to hear that.

    But one thing i learnt is

    " Always take the payment in advance or 75 % upfront to be on the safe side "

    Best of luck with your future ventures.
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    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      Originally Posted by RasVas View Post

      Lesson to be learnt here. GET CONTRACTS! Then check them with lawyers. It's the only way to cover your butt
      Even without a contract he can still win a lawsuit. But even WITH a contract the money isn't enough to justify going to court over, depending on how much you value your time and your state laws regarding small claims. Also, even if you win the law suit, it doesn't mean you're going to get paid, you may just be out of more money. However, if they are a sole proprietor you can usually put a lien on their house.

      Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

      Id say that if you are in the states, and you are being paid by the hour. and you have proof you were paid 1 time before... make a quick threat that you will call the Attorney Generals office and file a complaint unless you are paid. he will laugh at you, but follow through,and you will laugh last!
      Yeah if you're getting paid hourly then they refuse payment because it's not like they wanted and they all of a sudden terminate you to go towards another direction then you were an employee, not a contractor and you deserve the money for the hours worked. You also qualify for additional money for each day you are not paid.

      They will also be accountable for lawyer fees on your behalf so maybe you should talk to a wage / employment attorney.

      Report them to the labor board, the attorney general's office, and send a written letter demanding payment in full plus damages and interest or else you will go to court.

      They will then have the choice of either paying you, or going to court over it and potentially have the IRS on their ass for employment fraud.
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  • Profile picture of the author mxwealth
    if you are on the US, go straight to small claims court $50.


    By the way, emails are agreements and they can be presented in court. I went with emails to small claims and won.


    The client closed part of the company and had a fight with his brother/partner, the persom whom I was dealing with.


    I had nothing to do with the issue, I just wanted my money and sue both of them for the max $5,000.I was granted the money right away, in mediation.
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  • Profile picture of the author Leadsupply
    I am sorry you are going through this but on a good side you will probably never put yourself in this situation again. I had to learn this lesson the hard way as well. In the world of SEO and webdesign clients only have as much opportunity to leave you high and dry as you give them. As you go through your career you will notice that there are some clients that just have that "feel" to them, the ones that start dickering over price even before you answer their questions or before you have even got to the pricing part of your discussion. Milestones are a great way to make sure this never happens as well as having collateral or things you can take back if they do not pay (links, website,hosting) ect ect. Its not a very good way to end things well but for some it does work. The best way to make sure this never happens again it to 1:push back when clients ask for concessions or special collateral 2: Make sure you have set mile stones or expectations addressed 3: They understand pricing and that you have some sort of collateral if they don't pay.
    I am sorry this is happening to you, but I hope you learn from it as well and never have to go through it again.
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  • Profile picture of the author ario131038
    I would like to thank everyone for all your replies and suggestions, I really appreciate it. I am going to alter the way the way I conduct business from here on out.
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  • Profile picture of the author turboshandy
    ^ Good for you!
    Also, try to look on the bright side, if you can: at least you learned a lesson, even if it was the hard way.
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  • Profile picture of the author zaccks
    If you guys are from the same country i think the best way to about is go to the court and print out all evidences of your agreement.

    if u don't want to do that as you've mentioned in your post, then revoke your work. request from him to remove all the work you've done for him. At least you may get some relief.

    and next time to avoid situations like this always provide an agreement form for both the client and yourself.

    Next time you're going to work with a client, this is how it works:

    Before starting the project you should request 100% of the agreed fees. If he can't you go on 50% advance.

    if he still don't trust on giving advance payment then you should try using 3rd party websites to work with the project. like freelancer.com, where he will post the project for you and the create 100% milestone of the full amount agreed upon between you and him. this way the money does not actually go to you directly but will only be released after you have finished the job we agreed.

    and all message you've discussed will kept in the PM as evidence in case dispute may rise between you and him.

    so when he created a milestone for you he cannot cancel it. only you can cancel the payment so that it goes back to his account and only the client can release it.

    so when there is an issue between you guys, freelancer customer care will come in to resolve the issues based on the agreement you guys have discussed by sharing private messages.

    but note that you'll pay freelancer.com 3%-%10 of the project fees for providing their services.
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  • Profile picture of the author Skystar
    .
    A guy owed me $3,500 for work I did and wouldn't pay. Lawyer? Sue him?
    Small claims court? Forget it. I found a 'Representative' on Craigslist to stop
    by and 'suggest' he pay no later than the next day or he'd be back. Next day -
    wire transfer to my account.
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    • Profile picture of the author Oziboomer
      Originally Posted by Skystar View Post

      .
      A guy owed me $3,500 for work I did and wouldn't pay. Lawyer? Sue him?
      Small claims court? Forget it. I found a 'Representative' on Craigslist to stop
      by and 'suggest' he pay no later than the next day or he'd be back. Next day -
      wire transfer to my account.
      Hopefully, they didn't come back a few days later and ask you pay a retainer to make sure things ran smoothly in the future.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jack Gordon
      Originally Posted by Skystar View Post

      .
      A guy owed me $3,500 for work I did and wouldn't pay. Lawyer? Sue him?
      Small claims court? Forget it. I found a 'Representative' on Craigslist to stop
      by and 'suggest' he pay no later than the next day or he'd be back. Next day -
      wire transfer to my account.
      That is quite innovative. And possibly illegal. But I applaud your chutzpa.

      To the OP: this is a fact of life in business. Conduct yourself with integrity at all times and try to avoid negativity in others. And know when to walk away. $3500 is enough to really piss you off, but the cost/benefit of suing over it will be negligible.

      One thing that may protect you in the future would be to change your model to one where you keep all the traffic yourself and just sell the leads. Your business will become much more transactional, and much less dependent on any one big job.

      Just a thought.
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