[HUH?!?] - Somehow she just assumes I'm a photographer too?!?...

23 replies
Doing a site for a local restaurant.
She says come and take some pictures for the site.
I do -- using my phone.
She says, "No no! I need you to come with a real camera and lights and everything."

How does she just assume that "website designer" (also) equals "photographer."

PS: I quoted her a really, really low figure for the website -- which she then convinced me to lower by $100. Now, she seems to be expecting to do MORE than usual, not less! I'm now supposed to ALSO provide with who-knows-how-many $100s in photography services!! Go figure.

PPS: She hasn't yet given me the 1/2 deposit, and she still wants the site up "yesterday."
#assumes #huh #photographer
  • Profile picture of the author Underground
    It may not be in your case, but most people here hawk shit to people. Anything they can to turn a dime.

    They're desperate. They do everything to supplicate themselves to try to win approval from the client to score a few hundred dollars.

    A business owner can sense this low-worth behavior and take advantage.

    I don't know what you should do in this instance. But for future reference I would ask myself why I'm getting customers like that. Because it's mostly the fault of the seller.
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  • Profile picture of the author thet
    Pain in the ass. Send her away, now ;-)
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  • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
    Originally Posted by TimothyW View Post

    PS: I quoted her a really, really low figure for the website -- which she then convinced me to lower by $100. Now, she seems to be expecting to do MORE than usual, not less! I'm now supposed to ALSO provide with who-knows-how-many $100s in photography services!! Go figure.

    PPS: She hasn't yet given me the 1/2 deposit, and she still wants the site up "yesterday."
    I don't think the mess it is in now, is her fault.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      From knight in shining armour to stable lacky...

      I quoted low... and she still get me for another $100... uh isn't this the same person you saved their back end by figuring out after a ton of expense she was about to get caught with her pants down?

      Just because you put her pants back on.. didn't mean you had to take yours off!
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  • Profile picture of the author Oziboomer
    Originally Posted by TimothyW View Post

    I quoted her a really, really low figure for the website -- which she then convinced me to lower by $100. Now, she seems to be expecting to do MORE than usual, not less! I'm now supposed to ALSO provide with who-knows-how-many $100s in photography services!! Go figure.

    PPS: She hasn't yet given me the 1/2 deposit, and she still wants the site up "yesterday."
    It doesn't matter what you are selling be it online or offline, virtual or physical products, this is a sure warning sign that you are on the back foot.

    I have repeated problems with staff who get caught in "similar" type traps.

    Usually it is due to the "FEAR of REJECTION"

    Everyone at some point for whatever reason bows to pressure from someone that are doing business with.

    What happens is you think that you really need the business because it is just helping fill up the bucket but what is really happening is you are losing money due to leeching.

    Fortunately for me we are always in a higher bracket but the same scenarios still present themselves....just like when a big client assumes you can fix some sh*t that they had done at a low price.

    It is important to "Take a position of authority" on this issue and any similar type situations you find yourself in.

    You definitely don't need the hassle of working for nothing.

    Because I've got resources and people with abilities far beyond my own personal capabilities I find it easy to say to a client that I can arrange to handle the various requests but I explain for the service we use Expert X and he is charged out at $Y per hour.

    The typical job like your's take usually 3-4 hours and costs XXX.

    Do you want me to arrange it and bill you in our regular monthly billing cycle or would you prefer to pay Expert X directly?

    99% of the time they want you to bill them.

    Keep a short leash.

    Get them to sign off on extra work and if they don't pay restrict service and explain that you are not a bank and they should understand as they need their clients to pay just as you require payment.

    Personally when I'm confronted by a situation when clients require discounts of any sort I say that we only offer incentives for 100% upfront payments and then I restrict any reduction to 5% but that also depends on the method of payment.

    I make it clear we can accommodate clients cash flow needs but then there are no discounts and very usually there are additional charges to cover risks of non payment.

    In regards to photography you can always refer the client to look at what IStock Photo charges for an image and explain that "good photos cost money but a picture tells a thousand words"
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  • Profile picture of the author Freebiequeen1999
    Cue Kenny Rogers - "Know when to hold 'em, Know when to fold 'em"


    JMO = small, local biz do require some hand holding = I think that comes with the territory. However, when someone starts out this badly you might reconsider everything with all these red flags.
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  • Profile picture of the author qu4rk
    Originally Posted by TimothyW View Post

    PS: I quoted her a really, really low figure for the website -- which she then convinced me to lower by $100. Now, she seems to be expecting to do MORE than usual, not less! I'm now supposed to ALSO provide with who-knows-how-many $100s in photography services!! Go figure.

    PPS: She hasn't yet given me the 1/2 deposit, and she still wants the site up "yesterday."
    Let this be the lesson: Raise your prices & don't discount.

    Burn that into your neuronetwork my friend. You now know from experience that cheap customers are the biggest pain in the ass.
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  • Profile picture of the author Peter Lessard
    She is doing exactly as you have trained her to do.
    You have taught her that:
    You will commit to a project without even a deposit.
    You do not value your service enough to price it properly.
    When pressed you will drop your already low price.
    When asked you will jump and do as asked.

    She is not assuming anything. She is a keen observer and has simply followed your lead.

    She will likely never pay you, if she does it will likely not be as much as agreed upon.
    She will be a member of the 5% group of clients that take up 80% of your time.

    If the next question is how can you fix it you probably can't.
    It will be too shocking an experience to the system for her to be re-educated to a completely different you.
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  • Profile picture of the author garyisonline
    The most alarming thing I see in your post is: "She Says" and "I Do"

    That is just the beginning of a very long period of extreme misery, my friend.

    You'll want to go back and revisit your contract with her and all future relationships. Make sure that:

    1) All of your jobs have contracts with clearly stated boundaries. Also state in the contract something like, This contract represents the entirety of the work that will be done. We don't make verbal promises. If it isn't in this contract, it isn't in the deal.

    2) Small business owners are typically not trained in the details of your business. So they don't know what to expect and what not to expect...so they will default to expect whatever they want willy nilly. For every client that comes up, there will be new exclusions that you need to add to your agreements. Just be careful not to punish future clients for the sins and stupidity of previous clients.

    3) Small business owners are conditioned to push every button and expecting a tasty treat to pop out. If you don't resist dropping the reward, then expect on being the path of least resistance every single time.

    Tell them clearly up front what TO expect and what NOT to expect. Then stick to those boundaries (including payment terms...ESPECIALLY payment terms), otherwise there are no boundaries at all.

    It's time to pick her up and put her back in her place.
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  • Profile picture of the author TimothyW
    UPDATE...

    I dropped her after I needed to chase her all around for days, for the 1/2 deposit.
    She wanted me to do most of the work FIRST, before giving me the 1/2 deposit.

    I told her to find someone else.

    -- TW
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    • Profile picture of the author DABK
      If you ever change your mind about being paid half upfront, I got lots of work I need done. Could keep you busy for 5 years!

      On a serious note, it sounded to me like you should have dropped her before you even posted about her here.

      Originally Posted by TimothyW View Post

      UPDATE...

      I dropped her after I needed to chase her all around for days, for the 1/2 deposit.
      She wanted me to do most of the work FIRST, before giving me the 1/2 deposit.

      I told her to find someone else.

      -- TW
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  • Profile picture of the author TimothyW
    Not trying to be mean (ok, maybe a little) I set her domain name to lead to google.com.
    As you may recall, I saved her butt by buying "her" domain name which she THOUGHT someone had already bought for her long ago.

    Whomever she gets to do her site will very quickly come knocking on my door, for the domain name. I wonder how the rest. owner's attitude toward me will change, once she realizes that she NEEDS me to hand over control of the name (that's already printed on all her fancy menus, and is in all the radio ads, etc.)??

    Hhhmmm.

    ALSO, I wonder who she's gonna get to do the site? -- especially with her "conditions" being, "I don't wanna pay anything up front, AND I want an incredibly LOW price for the whole project -- which includes putting my entire menu up on the site -- 100+ menu items, many with pics), AND I want it done RIGHT AWAY!!"

    -- TW
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    • Profile picture of the author qu4rk
      Someone will do the site for her. There are plenty of people who will drop their pants in our industry.

      A word of caution. Do NOT play hard ball with this woman over her domain name. From what you described, she is the type of person who will go to every review site, BBB, news station, blog...and create a wix all text website with your name as the domain name (rank it for the top position of your name) describing her "negative" experience with you.

      You want to complete cut ties with this person...not agitate her.

      Why kick a hornets nets?

      Just use the lost cash & time on this project as your tuition for the schooling you are getting here. If you learn the lesson, then you can see that you are getting a great value for the tuition paid.
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      • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
        I agree. Take the high road. Leave smelling like roses as much as possible.

        Don't give the whole industry a black eye.

        Send her an email along the lines of "I'm sorry we could not work together. Your domain is registered
        here (URL) and here is the log in information... Happy to help your new web designer with any questions..."


        I bet she ends up having a friend or relative doing it for "free" on GoDaddy's "Website Tonite".

        Last bar owner I worked with wanted to trade for drinks, and I rarely drink. LOL

        Originally Posted by qu4rk View Post

        Someone will do the site for her. There are plenty of people who will drop their pants in our industry.

        A word of caution. Do NOT play hard ball with this woman over her domain name. From what you described, she is the type of person who will go to every review site, BBB, news station, blog...and create a wix all text website with your name as the domain name (rank it for the top position of your name) describing her "negative" experience with you.

        You want to complete cut ties with this person...not agitate her.

        Why kick a hornets nets?

        Just use the lost cash & time on this project as your tuition for the schooling you are getting here. If you learn the lesson, then you can see that you are getting a great value for the tuition paid.
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        "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

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  • If you don't want to end up doing this project for free, cancel it now. Otherwise she won't pay you agreed price. She will say that you should have warned her that you're not doing photography before accepting the job and blah-blah-blah.
    Never have a deal with such cheap people who heavily insist on lowering your price. Never!

    Once you have good portfolio, start raising your prices, this way you will get rid of clients of this kind. You'll have less clients, who will pay you much more, and who don't require you to do extra for free.
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  • Profile picture of the author MoneyDan
    Banned
    That's tough!!! Walking the fine line between being there for the customer and being abused by the customer. I'd say if she gives you any more criticism on the website, cut her loose. I can only imagine it going downhill from here.
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  • Profile picture of the author TimothyW
    Her domain name (which I bought for her a few days ago, after I found out her "friend" never did buy it for her months ago) is now set to go to google (I figured that was a neutral website).

    I COULD set it so it leads to one of her COMPETITOR'S websites!
    Then her menus and radio campaign would lead everyone to ANOTHER Thai restaurant in town!

    -- TW
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  • Profile picture of the author kemdev
    I'm surprised you'd be sweating this type of stuff since all of your clients come to you via 'magic'...
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  • Profile picture of the author James1212
    Why are you offering photography, when you do websites. To many hats my friends, be good at one and stay with it.
    Good photography cost good money period.
    $10,000.00 in gear at least.
    www,schlechtsphotography.com
    Best
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    Mike Schlecht

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  • Profile picture of the author harro1
    Having dealt with plenty of clients(few thousands) i clearly tell them everything upfront, like what we are going to deliver and time frame. The problem which you described generally happens when you promise the moon, so they have very high expectations from you which you sometimes fail to deliver.
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