My 3 month cold calling test results - Inexperienced caller, ridiculous script, results

by shadow92 202 replies
This section gets pretty boring at times. I think a lot of it is because many like to kick back and talk about imaginary sales techniques with imaginary customers. I personally love case studies and testing. There's just something about it that gets me high.

So obviously a big topic on this forum is cold calling, scripts, how to call, how to sell, how to do this, how to do that. I see so many people here getting so in depth with cold calling tactics, closing tactics, etc. They speak to these OP's like they have been doing it for years. When in reality, half these people asking questions have never even picked up a phone and cold called. How in gods name could they possibly comprehend some of the things you're trying to teach them? They can't...so they go and try it for a couple hundred calls (if that), fail, then come back and ask for critiques. The cycle starts over, and that is the precise reason why this place can become a bit of a circle jerk.

So I decided on Jan. 1st 2015 to start a little test. I had a family member that lost his job, came to me for money, etc. I said I don't give out loans, but I'll pay you if you do some shit around the office. He agreed and I told him he would start on Monday at 8am. This guy is as far away from his Series 7 as you can get, has absolutely no clue what he's doing on the phone, he works construction...never had a sales job in his life, and sure as hell doesn't even know how to pronounce SEO. He's a complete noob.

He shows up at the office at 7:45, I have a desk cleared for him with a headset and a piece of paper in front of him with this written.

"Hi, Ben calling - could I speak to the owner please"

"Hey I'm sure you're busy so I apologize if I'm interrupting. I just wanted to shoot you a quick call and introduce myself. My name is Ben and I'm web designer, I also help struggling businesses get more sales month to month. - Just wondering if you knew of anyone that could put me to work"


I told him to call each number on a spreadsheet I made.

I paid him $10/hr

He worked Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday (8am-noon) and a 30 minute break so he could go smoke a half pack.

He never missed a day, never started late, never left early.


When he got someone that was interested I had him tell them he wanted to get his senior project manager in on the call. Showed him how to transfer calls, and introduce me, and that's what he did for 3 months. I showed him nothing else, no closing tactics, no pre-qualifying questions, just a straight up offer/question.

He would get about 400 dials a day, and was pretty beat by the end. Of that 400 dials, on average there were 3-4 people he transferred to me. I tried to keep the same rhythm going, no hard pitching etc. I'm not the best salesmen admittedly. Just kept everything casual. I'm not going to spill the #dials #people talked to #voicemail, none of that matters to me. This test was about consistency.


I invested $1,440 in him

Got 11 new clients

60 warm leads that were put into the email autoresponder cycle we use for warm leads

$17,800 up front
$4,300/mo - contracted at 12 months.
---------------------------------------------
$69,4000 from a $1,440 investment


I never want to hear that a simple script does not work again. Ever. I have preached over and over that those who are just starting need to learn the basics, build a schedule, and keep it simple.

It was very interesting, many people didn't need our services, but they knew someone that did. 2 of the sales was from referrals. A lady actually had a son that worked for a web design agency, he said they were overflowing with work, and to call them if we needed work. I was skeptical but I did it anyway. Turns out they really did need help. We built a website for one of their clients, split the commission with them, and I later sold that client on a $500/mo video marketing plan.

The moral of the story is be consistent.

(ps: My cousin found a job, but could no longer use his wife's car. I felt bad so I decided to put the down payment, which was $3500. He deserved it though!)
#offline marketing #caller #calling #cold #inexperienced #month #results #ridiculous #script
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  • Profile picture of the author Mav91890
    You think your cousin would be a born again cold caller haha. Not saying it's easy, but the money and value you bring to clients can be worth it. So you closed 11 total sales over the course of about two months? Each one bringing in over 6k?
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    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      Originally Posted by Mav91890 View Post

      You think your cousin would be a born again cold caller haha. Not saying it's easy, but the money and value you bring to clients can be worth it. So you closed 11 total sales over the course of about two months? Each one bringing in over 6k?
      The sales weren't 6k each up front... 17,800 in total sales, up front.

      That's an average 1,600 per sale, which is extremely doable. 4K-ish in monthly, recurring income which ends up being a little less than $400/mo per sale.

      When he adds up the total yearly value, that is where people will probably be skeptical or believe it can't happen to them, but when you break down the average value per sale it's actually pretty normal.

      Good job Shadow on the testing. Awesome ROI... hell even if you breakeven on the front end it's worth it for the recurring income.

      Pretty good inspiration especially for beginners. 11 sales in 3 months... That's not very much, it really isn't as hard as people believe it to be.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mav91890
        Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

        The sales weren't 6k each up front... 17,800 in total sales, up front.

        That's an average 1,600 per sale, which is extremely doable. 4K-ish in monthly, recurring income which ends up being a little less than $400/mo per sale.

        When he adds up the total yearly value, that is where people will probably be skeptical or believe it can't happen to them, but when you break down the average value per sale it's actually pretty normal.

        Good job Shadow on the testing. Awesome ROI... hell even if you breakeven on the front end it's worth it for the recurring income.

        Pretty good inspiration especially for beginners. 11 sales in 3 months... That's not very much, it really isn't as hard as people believe it to be.
        Yeah it all makes sense. I just thought it was a rather large amount for 11 clients. But I'm still a noob so don't mind me.
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  • Profile picture of the author joecarson1
    “The only thing standing between you and your goal is the bullshit story you keep telling yourself as to why you can't achieve it.” ― Jordan Belfort

    "Inaction breeds doubt and fear. Action breeds confidence and courage. If you want to conquer fear, do not sit home and think about it. Go out and get busy" Dale Carnegie
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    You can say almost anything and get business if you stay on the phone and dial. Unfortunately it takes a boss hanging over your shoulder telling you that you have to do it for most people. Awesome story.


    What I like about your story is that it isn't full of BS advanced techniques... just simply saying basically "Hey Im trying to drum up some business , wonder if you could help me out".


    If pro's around here would make things less complicated to implement then maybe more people would succeed. I agree. I hate all the text book theory stuff... and renaming of techniques that are basic, to make them sound sophisticated... Just simply ask someone if they are interested in web design...or in this case, if they know anyone interested. That's all... If there is interest then the rest is natural.


    Originally Posted by Mav91890 View Post

    You think your cousin would be a born again cold caller haha.

    A half stoned 17 year old kid can generate leads if they stay on the phone dialing. Call centers don't make millions on stellar people who can get a 100k salary, they make it on average 10 dollar per hour people who aren't qualified to work other jobs, who simply stay on the phone all day dialing, repeating very simple scripts. That's all. It's a fact.


    Hurts a lot of "consultants" ego's to hear that though, so that kind of talk is discouraged heavily here.
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    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      You can say almost anything and get business if you stay on the phone and dial. Unfortunately it takes a boss hanging over your shoulder telling you that you have to do it for most people. Awesome story.


      What I like about your story is that it isn't full of BS advanced techniques... just simply saying basically "Hey Im trying to drum up some business , wonder if you could help me out".


      If pro's around here would make things less complicated to implement then maybe more people would succeed. I agree. I hate all the text book theory stuff... and renaming of techniques that are basic, to make them sound sophisticated... Just simply ask someone if they are interested in web design...or in this case, if they know anyone interested. That's all... If there is interest then the rest is natural.





      A half stoned 17 year old kid can generate leads if they stay on the phone dialing. Call centers don't make millions on stellar people who can get a 100k salary, they make it on average 10 dollar per hour people who aren't qualified to work other jobs, who simply stay on the phone all day dialing, repeating very simple scripts. That's all. It's a fact.


      Hurts a lot of "consultants" ego's to hear that though, so that kind of talk is discouraged heavily here.
      Yep... I'm a big believer in keeping everything as simple as possible.
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  • Profile picture of the author umc
    I freaking LOVE the original post. In all of the telemarketing that I ever did, I was handed long overly complicated scripts which I whittled down to basic quick calls. I did well and taught my telemarketers the same when I ran the rooms later. I really love stories like this. They make me wish I was back running a room again. Some average guy comes in and you show him how to get leads, something that so many people can never seem to figure out for themselves, doing something that most anyone can do if they actually put in effort.
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    • Profile picture of the author shadow92
      I've only told a couple of people my story, but I was that guy about 4 years ago. Had just moved out (because I had to), had a child, and bills up the ass. Working a shitty job as a pizza delivery boy.

      My company literally started on a cell phone, ramen noodles, and a yellowbook. I called up businesses and just asked them for work. Most said no, but it was polite. Some said yes, and that's how I started. I didn't have an option. I was on day 1 and had to make $750 for rent by day 30. My pizza job only covered all my other bills. It was sink or swim.

      The tech stuff gets in the way of not just cold calling, but sales in general. So many people are intimidated by sales and it really blows my mind. If you just go out there, tell them who you are, and ask for the sale, you'll eventually get the sale. Many rebutt that people don't stay consistent, but that's because they don't want it bad enough, they don't need it bad enough.

      My cold caller in this case absolutely needed the money I was paying him. He had no other options. He didn't give a shit if he sold or not..he just followed my simple instructions and got paid. It was cool to watch because so many times we get too bound up in trying to just get a sale that we forget about the process entirely. When something isn't working it's in our nature to just give up, or try something else. He had nothing to lose so he followed exactly as I instructed. That is the one and only reason this worked. It was not because I'm good at closing, not because of my pricing, or track record. It was entirely because he was consistent with the calling and didn't change anything up. He just dialed. His only goal was to dial 100 numbers an hour...that's it.

      My point for posting this is maybe some of you are in the situation my cousin was in. And if you follow exactly what he did, I ASSURE you that you will make the money you need.

      I only post numbers because without them, many of you will see no value in what I'm posting. I'm quite positive that these 11 clients will generate over $100k in sales over the next 12 months. We upsell almost 80% of all web design clients within a year.

      Also take note that these are not extraordinary numbers like someone else pointed out, it's only $1,200-1,600/sale which is pretty much the industry standard. In fact...with all the numbers considered, 11 sales is quite low and absolutely doable.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by umc View Post

      They make me wish I was back running a room again. Some average guy comes in and you show him how to get leads...
      The great feeling you get from that never gets old. I remember when my own light bulb came on. It was so thrilling to know that I could make something happen. It's just as thrilling watching it happen for someone else. I never get tired of seeing that light bulb come on inside of people, which is why I have sold myself short many times, leaving a lot of money on the table in exchange for the joy of seeing that. You can't buy that feeling!

      It made Shadow so happy that he got someone a CAR! lol

      Originally Posted by mina2000 View Post

      So many people look down on sales people. But without it most companies would no exist.
      Most people seem short on the phone, because the moment you call them, they have something else on their mind and they aren't thinking about buying a website, or whatever... That can be interpreted as hate. They probably hang up the phone and say "It was a damn telemarketer" lol But they don't really hate you, it is just a conditioned response, when they aren't interested.

      However, when you come across the very SAME PERSON on a day when they ARE interested, with an offer that DOES apply to them, the entire tone will change and you will hear:

      "Yeah John! I'm so glad you called! I was just talking to my secretary about this the other day! What a coincidence!"

      Trust me, that person, with THAT tone exists in EVERY call list of 100 numbers or so, you just have to uncover them! The one who is glad you called. Your whole dialing session was just for him!

      Those people are a true pleasure to talk to!

      If you dial consistently, you will come across a COUPLE of those people EVERY SINGLE DAY!

      As Og Mandino says "The tides advance , the tides recede. One day a man wont give you a penny for an apple made of Gold, and the next he will trade you everything he owns for a mere TREE"

      "Yeah John! Sure! I have a few minutes to talk!"

      Back to the subject;

      A "T.O." simply cuts to the chase all day, dials through all the No's, and positions YOU to spend your day talking only to a few people who are a "pleasure" to converse with.

      In truth you have something in common with every prospect you dial. You are both business people carrying out your day, trying figure out to drum up some more business!

      You aren't a "telemarketer", you are a" web design business", calling to introduce yourself to a "pizza business". He sends mail-outs to a thousand people a month trying to do the same thing you are doing.

      When you have just finished eating a big meal then his mail-out Pizza coupons are just "junk mail", but when you are hungry, or having a stay over with 5 teenage kids, then it's "Wow! Im so lucky these coupons came in the mail today!"

      The quote by Og Oandino above explains why a construction company with 6-7 telemarketers can use the same exact pitch , call the same exact small town, with the same exact list of prospects, with 5 other competitors doing virtually the same thing, for 45 years in a row, and still come up with 10 leads per hour EVERY single day!

      It works for web design too. This age old principle of "the tides" is why there is no need to fear competition.

      Gotta keep it all in perspective.

      One time I wrote a sign and put it on my desk that said "Yeah John! I'm so glad you called!" , just to remind myself that I would run into a person with that tone any minute, if I held my vibe and kept dialing, and it ALWAYS happened!

      Bingo! This is the guy!

      Cha- Ching!

      Back to UMC's post:

      Again, it's always exciting when someone ELSE, "gets" this and they come back saying "Man! You were right! I dialed 100 numbers and some guy answered and said exactly what you said he would !"

      Now that person knows that they have the ability to create customers for their business, and make money on the phone any time they want to!

      That's why I love this industry!


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      • Profile picture of the author thet
        Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

        The great feeling you get from that never gets old. I remember when my own light bulb came on. It was so thrilling to know that I could make something happen. It's just as thrilling watching it happen for someone else. I never get tired of seeing that light bulb come on inside of people, which is why I have sold myself short many times, leaving a lot of money on the table in exchange for the joy of seeing that. You can't buy that feeling!

        It made Shadow so happy that he got someone a CAR! lol



        Most people seem short on the phone, because the moment you call them, they have something else on their mind and they aren't thinking about buying a website, or whatever... That can be interpreted as hate. They probably hang up the phone and say "It was a damn telemarketer" lol But they don't really hate you, it is just a conditioned response, when they aren't interested.

        However, when you come across the very SAME PERSON on a day when they ARE interested, with an offer that DOES apply to them, the entire tone will change and you will hear:

        "Yeah John! I'm so glad you called! I was just talking to my secretary about this the other day! What a coincidence!"

        Trust me, that person, with THAT tone exists in EVERY call list of 100 numbers or so, you just have to uncover them! The one who is glad you called. Your whole dialing session was just for him!

        Those people are a true pleasure to talk to!

        If you dial consistently, you will come across a COUPLE of those people EVERY SINGLE DAY!

        As Og Mandino says "The tides advance , the tides recede. One day a man wont give you a penny for an apple made of Gold, and the next he will trade you everything he owns for a mere TREE"

        "Yeah John! Sure! I have a few minutes to talk!"

        If somebody is new in telesales. He/she should read that over and over and over again.

        You will feel the hate.. until..you dont anymore. And then you see for who you do it.
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  • Profile picture of the author TimothyEyton
    You hit the nail on the head with this one. It pisses me off hearing some people talking about cold calling. One of the IM forums I regular had someone who posted a thread about a new business they were starting and it seemed like just about everyone was saying cold calling does not work or insulting the OP and his business plan.

    Very inspiring stuff
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    • Profile picture of the author rbeckwith
      Originally Posted by TimothyEyton View Post

      You hit the nail on the head with this one. It pisses me off hearing some people talking about cold calling. One of the IM forums I regular had someone who posted a thread about a new business they were starting and it seemed like just about everyone was saying cold calling does not work or insulting the OP and his business plan.

      Very inspiring stuff
      Maybe you should point that OP over here to this thread!

      Rod
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Using a "T.O" system is another element that made this work like a clock, for 5 different reasons. I posted last night that this was one of the best threads I have read in this section, but then deleted it because I didn't want to distract attention away from Shadows last post, which was even more inspiring than the first! Awesome thread!


    People think they can just hire some BPO from the internet, and have remote telemarketers closing big sales for them all day long, and they get discouraged because that doesn't happen. Having a guy sitting in your office sending you transfers does though, if you aren't too lazy to close your own sales.


    Again, this is one of the most inspiring , and bare bones, honest posts that I have ever read in this section. This thread is "real".
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  • Profile picture of the author joe golfer
    Yeah, it might help some to think of cold calling as simply "calling." Just call people on the phone. It's that easy. You do it all the time.

    I remember watching Gary Vaynerchuk a couple of weeks ago. If you don't know, he is a big social media guru with a successful agency. Somebody asked, "We have a small business. How do we use social to get going?"

    He gave some good tips and then said, "The best way for you to get going is to get a list of the businesses (in San Francisco) that could use this service, and then call the list from top to bottom and ask them."
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  • Profile picture of the author Underground
    Well done. For some models with an endless list of suspects, the most direct, churn and burn, 1 call close is obviously enough to generate a good profit over time.

    For other models, like mine, 11 sales in 3 months would kill my business. I wouldn't have one.

    The simple way obviously works and has it's place, but it's not right for everyone or the superior approach in all cases. There's a whole raft of objectives you can obtain while picking up the phone beyond simply going for the lay-downs and burning through 1000's of potential leads and sales. And which maximizes the return from your sales and prospecting efforts.

    It's poor advice to knock all that and pretend it's unnecessary.
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  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    Originally Posted by shadow92 View Post

    This section gets pretty boring at times. I think a lot of it is because many like to kick back and talk about imaginary sales techniques with imaginary customers. I personally love case studies and testing. There's just something about it that gets me high.

    I just wanted to let you know how valuable your post was. You've done us all a huge favor.
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  • Profile picture of the author Brotherly
    Originally Posted by shadow92 View Post

    The moral of the story is be consistent.

    (ps: My cousin found a job, but could no longer use his wife's car. I felt bad so I decided to put the down payment, which was $3500. He deserved it though!)
    His prayers just got answered through you.

    It's clear this strategy is no respecter of any economic situation. It simply works.

    I'm giving it a shot next week.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
      Originally Posted by Brotherly View Post

      His prayers just got answered through you.

      It's clear this strategy is no respecter of any economic situation. It simply works.

      I'm giving it a shot next week.
      Don't just "give it a shot, Brother.

      Make a 100% commitment to it.

      If you fail, it won't be because the strategy quit on you.
      It will be because you quit on the strategy.
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      • Profile picture of the author Brotherly
        Originally Posted by Ron Lafuddy View Post

        Don't just "give it a shot, Brother.

        Make a 100% commitment to it.

        If you fail, it won't be because the strategy quit on you.
        It will be because you quit on the strategy.
        I'm giving it 100% commitment.

        I tried it sometime in 2014. Called up 10 prospects in the space of one week and had 2 warm leads nearing closing at the moment. But this time around, it is going to be a different ball game.

        Thanks for challenging me.
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        • Profile picture of the author sooWoo
          Originally Posted by Brotherly View Post

          I'm giving it 100% commitment.

          I tried it sometime in 2014. Called up 10 prospects in the space of one week and had 2 warm leads nearing closing at the moment. But this time around, it is going to be a different ball game.

          Thanks for challenging me.
          You had 2 good leads out of the 10 you called? That's pretty damn good.
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    • Profile picture of the author shadow92
      Originally Posted by Brotherly View Post

      His prayers just got answered through you.

      It's clear this strategy is no respecter of any economic situation. It simply works.

      I'm giving it a shot next week.
      (assuming you're the one doing the dialing)

      I suggest you create basic goals for yourself. Unless you are a die hard, self-motivator...you'll give up.

      Immediate goals that lead up to long term goals are key. For example, if I were starting over...

      Goal #1: Dial from 8:00AM-10:00AM @ 80 dials/hour for 5 business days.

      Open your leads and mark them off as you call. For me it's an excel spreadsheet. Leads that were called are highlighted in red. Leads that were transferred to me in green.

      Don't worry about tracking any stats at all. Except for your time spent calling, and the number of dials. I had my guy leave voicemails simply because it only took about 6 extra seconds to drop the message.

      "hey jack...ben here, I have a couple questions I was hoping you could answer, call me back (phone number)"

      People that do call back are easier to talk to. When they call back refer to your script and follow the same process.

      This may seem elementary, and that's because it is. If you don't have experience with this you MUST keep it simple. If you're worried about your sales, hangups, interested leads, people that want you to email them, etc...you will get overwhelmed, discouraged, and give up. Start basic.

      This isn't revolutionary so don't treat it like it is. It's basic, it's a numbers game, if you call consistently and follow the same routine, eventually you make sales. It's proven, guaranteed, and will happen for the rest of eternity.

      Someone pointed out that this isn't for everyone and they're completely right. Someone whos business would crash with 11 sales in 3 months will definitely not be using a system like this. This is for someone who wants new clients, needs new clients, and doesn't know what the hell they're doing. It's a 100% guaranteed method. As a noob, that's all that should matter to you.
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  • Profile picture of the author EyeInTriangle
    Hey shadow,

    Did you close any of these warm leads in person or just over the phone?
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  • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
    Awesome post Shadow.

    "Doing the right things, is more important than doing things right." - Both are important, but the first is more important than the second.

    Most people need to stop learning and planning. Stop making excuses for your lack of results. It isn't the economy, your industry, your city, your country, your family, or your culture. It is YOU. You know enough. Put it to use.
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    Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
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  • Profile picture of the author thet
    "Hey I'm sure you're busy so I apologize if I'm interrupting. I just wanted to shoot you a quick call and introduce myself. My name is Ben and I'm web designer, I also help struggling businesses get more sales month to month. - Just wondering if you knew of anyone that could put me to work"
    Cool opening. For me, this works too. Just simply stating what I do, and why I want to meet.

    I get some general responses: What do you do?
    or: We already have a supplier

    but, I can go from there. "Not a problem.. What we notice is... Can I ask you a question?".

    In my experience, the opener really isn't so important aslong as you show you have strength & warmth (research shows that strength & warmth are the two most important factors in influence, character-wise. Example: Very strong, but can be very cold at times. Obama, both).
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  • Profile picture of the author Mav91890
    Yeah, I still haven't decided what I like better. Churn and burn or using a more professional script. Both have their advantages.
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    • Profile picture of the author thet
      Originally Posted by Mav91890 View Post

      Yeah, I still haven't decided what I like better. Churn and burn or using a more professional script. Both have their advantages.
      Its never this black and white. And don't think churn and burn isn't using a professional script.

      I normally start the conversation with a churn and burn mentality but when I feel the man/woman is open to talk, I go more in a consulting mode. The goal is always to move a step forward. Whatever that step is.
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  • Profile picture of the author animal44
    Cold calling might get you business, however, IMHO it's inefficient and makes you appear needy and desperate... The most efficient way we got our customers when starting up was a Joint Venture. I initially approached local web designers, but found them resistant - I think they thought we were going to poach their clients. I then found a lady offering secretarial services. We did her SEO in return for her promoting our services. We gave her a script to which she gave input and evolved the script as we went. She was bloody good, too good. She gave us more customers than we wanted, and they were quality customers. We had to "turn her off" after a while. :-) Random cold calling is a bit shotgun, or like Forest Gump's box of chocolates, you never know what you'll get... :-)
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    • Profile picture of the author Underground
      Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

      Cold calling might get you business, however, IMHO it's inefficient and makes you appear needy and desperate... The most efficient way we got our customers when starting up was a Joint Venture. I initially approached local web designers, but found them resistant - I think they thought we were going to poach their clients. I then found a lady offering secretarial services. We did her SEO in return for her promoting our services. We gave her a script to which she gave input and evolved the script as we went. She was bloody good, too good. She gave us more customers than we wanted, and they were quality customers. We had to "turn her off" after a while. :-) Random cold calling is a bit shotgun, or like Forest Gump's box of chocolates, you never know what you'll get... :-)
      The shot gun approach is ridiculous for the average person here who desires to have enough time to run and operate a stable business. If you can hire someone to make calls like a machine day in day out, then that's great. For those that can't do that, they best learn optimal ways to approach businesses that generate maximum return.

      Invariably they are multi-step approaches rather than ignoring anything but the easy lays who will jump into bed on the first date.

      Something like this joint venture thing is very intriguing. I hadn't thought about that in my current situation, but I could barter swap some businesses owners who have sufficient contact with people who form my potential client base and already have a trust based relationship, and incentive them to pitch their clients on a special offer I've put on especially for their customers.

      I'll have to figure out the best people, but if I could get five or six referrers pitching for me that generate a lot of business. Need to find people who deal with business owners.

      Was this lady who was selling for you pitching her clients with your deal?
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    • Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

      Cold calling might get you business, however, IMHO it's inefficient and makes you appear needy and desperate... The most efficient way we got our customers when starting up was a Joint Venture. I initially approached local web designers, but found them resistant - I think they thought we were going to poach their clients. I then found a lady offering secretarial services. We did her SEO in return for her promoting our services. We gave her a script to which she gave input and evolved the script as we went. She was bloody good, too good. She gave us more customers than we wanted, and they were quality customers. We had to "turn her off" after a while. :-) Random cold calling is a bit shotgun, or like Forest Gump's box of chocolates, you never know what you'll get... :-)
      Random cold calling will get you nowhere, and that's the reason you invest in good list brokers with buyers lists of people who bought products or services in your niche in the last 30 to 90 days.

      Your conversions and sales rate will be higher than just cold calling random people in your local yellow pages.
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  • Profile picture of the author thet
    Nobody can make you needy and desperate except yourself. It's the way you communicate
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  • Profile picture of the author Mav91890
    Even if you came off needy and desperate, which you shouldn't through the way you convey your message and tonality, who cares as long as you are bringing in the money.
    Signature

    “The only thing standing between you and your goal is the bullshit story you keep telling yourself as to why you can't achieve it.” ― Jordan Belfort

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  • Profile picture of the author Ali Technologies
    Interesting story, nothing new to learn but I feel as that your cousin was disperete for money so help lot in it lol..
    anyways I agree with you. creating plane wasting time in research on how to land in the ground, it is better to start work as I do believe that we learn from experience and whatever we try we will get at least some results.
    It all depends on our determination and focus.
    Thanks
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  • Shadow, did your guy use a dialer or did he just manual dial?
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  • Profile picture of the author myralove
    shadow92 I am rarely on the forum anymore, but received your story in the WF email just now. I was intrigued by the headline and pleasantly surprised with your story. It is a great one and very realistic for anyone that wants to put in the time and work. Young or old. Does not matter. What matters is the attitude. You have a great one is kicking off your business.

    It is exactly how we built our agency, one client at a time. Many have been with us for years. We are transparent and educate as much as we can along the way. Most importantly, we don't shy from doing the work. There is only so much you can do to automate or JV. The reality when dealing with clients, is just do the difficult stuff no one else wants to do. And guess what? You look up and you cannot believe what you have built from an idea and no outside investment.

    We are now 8 1/2 years in now and loving the journey. Again great story and thanks for sharing.

    Myra Love
    Signature
    "There is no passion to be found playing small...in settling for a life that is less than the one you are capable of living" ~Nelson Mandela

    My passion lives in the creation of new brands, re-branding existing brands and growing businesses through my namesake company, Larym Design. What's yours?
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  • Profile picture of the author shadow92
    I noticed that this thread was the the headline as well.They did however screw the numbers up. I didn't make six figures in 3 months. It wasn't $694,000 ...it was $69,400. So the title is definitely misleading.

    I accidentally put an extra zero behind the comma in the op.

    Just posting this to clear confusion from the folks that are coming here via the emai.
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  • According to me this is a story that can work only on some country like United States.
    It seems like who create websites in some niches like restaurants, dentists, real estate, rank these sites and contact by cold call interested people to sell spots on that sites.
    I red that these webmasters make more money than you in a few time.
    Obviously this is a story, but in some country can work.
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  • Profile picture of the author GowebMkt
    Love the story....but have a couple questions.

    - Where did you get your list of businesses to call?

    - I have done telesales in the past...and to be able to average (100) calls an hour, about (1) call every 40 seconds sounds very hard to do. Figure you will have a 30 second chat with most callers minimum.

    Was this using predictive dialing?

    - How did you get the 'trust factor' when offering these higher ticket services?

    - Did have to worry about getting numbers that were not on the national DNC list?

    - Did you get a CC over the phone or do check by phone?


    Thanks for the insight!
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    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      Originally Posted by GowebMkt View Post

      Love the story....but have a couple questions.

      - Where did you get your list of businesses to call?

      - I have done telesales in the past...and to be able to average (100) calls an hour, about (1) call every 40 seconds sounds very hard to do. Figure you will have a 30 second chat with most callers minimum.

      Was this using predictive dialing?

      - How did you get the 'trust factor' when offering these higher ticket services?

      - Did have to worry about getting numbers that were not on the national DNC list?

      Thanks for the insight!
      You don't have a majority of 30 second chats. The majority of calls go unanswered, disconnected numbers, fax machines, voicemails, etc.

      You can get the business information anywhere, phone books, google, scrapers like mobile renegade, infofree.

      Trust factor, it's usually a matter of going after the low hanging fruit. These aren't exactly high ticket services, these are comparable to what a company spends on a small office lease, power and phone bills.

      There is no do not call list for businesses.

      Keep in mind the call volume per hour doesn't really matter, I've seen the average be between 60-80 calls an hour, but with auto dialers you're looking at a possibility of much higher amounts.
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    • Profile picture of the author D.A.
      Originally Posted by GowebMkt View Post

      Love the story....but have a couple questions.

      - Where did you get your list of businesses to call?

      - I have done telesales in the past...and to be able to average (100) calls an hour, about (1) call every 40 seconds sounds very hard to do. Figure you will have a 30 second chat with most callers minimum.

      Was this using predictive dialing?

      - How did you get the 'trust factor' when offering these higher ticket services?

      - Did have to worry about getting numbers that were not on the national DNC list?

      - Did you get a CC over the phone or do check by phone?


      Thanks for the insight!
      Businesses cannot be on a Do Not Call list. They are fair game (but they have gatekeepers)
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    • Profile picture of the author DABK
      If you get the phone numbers from their websites or profiles, the DNC list doesn't matter (even if the number is their home number).

      If you advertise your phone number in public places, you can't expect people not to call.

      Originally Posted by GowebMkt View Post


      - Did have to worry about getting numbers that were not on the national DNC list?
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  • Profile picture of the author WPCHARLIE
    Thanks Shadow for sharing your story. Very inspiring.

    Question: Where did you get your list of businesses to call?
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    • Profile picture of the author letsmakeamillion
      Originally Posted by WPCHARLIE View Post


      Question: Where did you get your list of businesses to call?

      I was just about to ask the same question. But what about calling regular folks, not businesses, who am I permitted to call
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  • I think it is really about the number of calls you make that matters more than what you say. It is said that out of 100 people you contact, about 1 person will be interested in you - and the numbers you provided in your post reflect this. Keeping things short and to the point works best - nobody wants to listen to a sales person going on and on for a half hour. I think this goes for emails too. I rarely read those long sales emails I get from LinkedIn, but I read the short emails usually.
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  • Profile picture of the author D.A.
    A nice little trick, too, is to have the transferer send them to your website that has retargeting implemented. Then the person who did not buy immediately will start to think you might just be a big deal...
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    • Profile picture of the author sandalwood
      Shadow92 - excellent post. You took an approach that fit the person doing the calling. Yes, he needed money but if the format wasn't compatible he would have been gone after 2 days. That by itself deserves 3 kudos.

      I liked your post so much I will tell you where to find the high end clients. It is free and easy to use. You can also laugh when you read my rationale.

      I check their Form 5500 on a website. If you don't know what that Form is, no big deal. The website has all the details.

      Go to Benefits Pro and sign up for their free program. You can buy one of the premium plans but you really don't need to. The freebie is good enough. I am NOT an affiliate.

      I am in the retirement planning and commercial loan business so this Form gives me everything I need to know. It might do the same for you. In my business I can get you a million dollar loan even if your credit is less than desirable. It's in knowing how to do it and this Form helps me know how to do it.

      If it is irrelevant to your business, so be it.

      Have a great day.

      Tom
      Signature
      Get 30% or More Retirement Income If you are serious about your retirement, you'll love this product.

      The Money Ferret Finance Article Directory
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    • Profile picture of the author shadow92
      Most questions have been answered by others.

      DNC does not apply to commercial telemarketing ie. calling businesses. Only objective is getting past gatekeepers.

      My guy didn't use a predictive dialed, he dialed manually

      Over the years I have accumulated a pretty large database of leads that we constantly add to. There are many programs out there for scraping listing sites like yellow pages. I use several tools allowing me to scrape significant amounts of leads. Most are pieces of software coded by my developer. One piece that I use that's available to the public is called Mobile Renegade. I highly recommend it if you're willing to put in the time to learn how to use it effectively. I will note that it has a bit of a learning curve. Not to learn the software but to learn to upscale the processes to a point that we're using it at.

      Admittedly, 100 dials an hour manually is definitely a task, but possible. Being that this is a true churn and burn system we used, he qualified the leads within a matter of 10 seconds. When using a script like this there's no pre-qualifying...you either get a yes or a no. If they didn't say no, they were transferred to my line. Very straight forward and simple.

      Which leads me to the question about the trust factor. There was no building on trust. We only wanted to talk to people that needed a service right now. Typically those that say yes to a script like we used need something now. "low hanging fruit" was a term mentioned and that's precisely what they were. Leads that were ready to take action right away. We did have some people check out our website before they bought, but I was on the phone with them as they reviewed my company. My objective was to not let them off the phone until they either gave me the sale, or said no thanks.

      Those that were hesitant, or were transferred to me and didn't buy, were put in an autoresponder series of emails that we will follow up with at later dates. We did pick up 2 sales yesterday from those leads that were entered into our "warm leads" system.

      These were not high ticket sales by any means. Businesses spend WAY more than you think on advertising. $1,200 for a website is dog shit compared to what they're probably spending on other advertising methods. The problem is...many of us marketers are led to believe that our services are too expensive just because we're told "it's not in our budget right now" constantly.

      The reality is, I can take a business that's making $10k/mo via their website, and turn it into $20k/mo by simply looking at conversion factors of the website. I would bet that I can effectively do this to about 90% of commercial websites out there. The trick is..getting business owners to believe that.

      So...we decided years ago to offer discounts to certain clients for their permission to develop a full, public case study on what we're doing to increase sales. To date; we have about 80 detailed studies that combined, generated over 40 million in INCREASED revenue for our clients.

      If someone is on the edge about buying a website from us, about 80% buy after I show them to our case studies section of our website.

      Just some tricks to get some of you offline consultants thinking. It's definitely a time investment but It's paid its self of over and over again in my experience. It's something I rarely see talked about here, my assumption is most are too lazy to do it.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Basically, what shadow has implemented here is a classic "T.O." system.

        BPO Companies ("outsourcers") who provide lead generation services, usually call them "Live Transfers", and offer clients a choice between receiving pre set phone appointments, or live transfers. There is usually a little higher price charged for a live transfer.

        I point this out because it may be helpful for some to understand that this isn't a fluke, it is an age old widely accepted "practice" that has been systemized in various ways over the course many years, by many a multi million dollar company... It is an acceptable, time proven "practice", dating back to before there were even phones, by door to door sales organizations!

        In a typical (telemarketing) "T.O." situation, one person does the "canvassing" with a 10-15 second elevator pitch, then transfers the call to someone else when any sign of interest is shown, getting the salesman's foot in the door, then the salesman delivers the sales pitch.

        In the door to door windows and siding industry, or even as Claude Whitacre may know, in the door to door vacuum cleaner sales industry... it is a typical and common practice for a salesman, to send a "canvasser" out into a neighborhood ahead of himself, to set up pitch opportunities, and help him stack up sales presentations back to back, so he can move right from one presentation to the next, without having to prospect in between.

        That works really well for the salesman, enabling him to spend most of his day selling instead of prospecting. It warms up the prospect a bit for him as well.

        Uncovering potential leads is not rocket science, and any person here could train someone to do it for them, as Shadow has discovered.

        Implementing a TO system is especially great for those who don't mind "pitching" interested prospects, but HATE cold calling to find them!

        Think about it. What do you hate most about telemarketing?

        The DIALING of hundreds of numbers!

        A "T.O." saves you from all of the dialing.

        The only requirement is that YOU have to be able to pull off a good sales pitch in order to make the deals close!

        You may ask yourself "well, if I have to sell them myself, then what's the point of hiring a telemarketer to do this? Is it really that much more trouble to do my own canvassing?"

        Well...

        Another benefit to a T.O. system is this:


        A canvasser will typically create more interested leads in a day than a salesman could by himself!

        For two reasons:

        One because he doesn't have attachment to the outcome of a sale, so it makes him come across more light hearted and casual. Easier to say YES to. His job is simply to find out if you are interested (in the market) or not...,


        and "Two"; He can cover a lot more ground, not feeling any obligation to take up time to try and sell you. He can find more leads moving through the numbers trying to FIND interest, than you can by talking your head off to everyone you meet, trying to CREATE it.

        Simply put; the canvasser is moving faster. He isn't spending a lot of time pitching anyone, just moving from door to door, or call to call trying to "uncover" potential interest.

        In telemarketing:

        With some "transfer over" systems, the guy doing the canvassing is actually pitching the sale too, and then simply transfers over to a "billing processor" at the very end of the pitch, who collects billing information after the customer has already said "Yes, I am ready to purchase".

        Such as in new car sales, where often new salesman will pitch the car to customers who come on the lot, then "T.O." the customer to management when it's time to close the deal and get the contracts out...

        In other T.O. systems, the canvasser doesn't pitch the sale, he simply calls people to uncover anyone who shows interest in knowing more, and then transfer them to a sales person who both pitches and closes.

        In any event "T.O.'s" work and they take a lot of pressure off of BOTH callers.

        One doesn't have to pitch, and the other doesn't have to dial hundreds of numbers to get to pitch.

        I have often advised people in the forums that if they are going to hire an outbound call center from a non English speaking country, to not expect SALES from it. That is a money losing formula!

        However, these BPO's CAN be good for sending you leads or live transfers.

        In any event, if you want to make sales come twice as easy, a T.O. system like shadow is implementing here is invaluable!

        Hate to say "I told you so", but I have been saying this for ages!

        T.O systems are a great way to make more, and easier sales!


        -JD
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  • Profile picture of the author YourBizAid
    Inspiring! Whoever says they can't make money hasn't used their heads well enough.
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  • Profile picture of the author GowebMkt
    What seems to work best? Asking for credit card payment or check by phone?

    Thanks for the all the detailed insight and answers to my questions!
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    • Profile picture of the author TrickyDick
      Originally Posted by GowebMkt View Post

      What seems to work best? Asking for credit card payment or check by phone?

      Thanks for the all the detailed insight and answers to my questions!
      For me, neither... That simply adds another "trust barrier" to hurdle.

      I simply send a PayPal invoice or subscription link.
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  • Profile picture of the author mina2000
    So many people look down on sales people. But without it most companies would no exist.
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    • Profile picture of the author max5
      We were doing cold calls in 2014 and it didn't end up good, most of the potential clients were asking for personal meeting.
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  • Profile picture of the author joe golfer
    Yup, it can really help to separate lead gen from selling. We covered a lot of ground on it here:
    http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...-too-much.html

    That said, some salespeople like Claude prefer to generate their own leads because he knows he can do a lot of the selling himself, so that the closing part is almost all done. He explains it better than I just did in this post here:
    http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...ml#post7736604
    Signature
    Marketing is not a battle of products. It is a battle of perceptions.
    - Jack Trout
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  • Profile picture of the author xlfutur1
    This is a terrific case study, thanks for posting.

    There is a simple way for your dialer to only dial ONE number, yet make 100 calls.. Here's how...

    Awhile back I created a sequential dialing app using Twilio that requires the caller to only dial ONE number, and the app does the rest of the work. It will dial as many numbers as you want automatically in one sitting. You just have to set it up to work the way you want it to. It can also let the caller know the name of the business and the owner's name before it makes the call.

    Its basically a "poor man's autodialer" yet very customizeable. You will need a Twilio account to make this work, and if you use a your browser its insanely cheap to make calls. Calls can be recorded if you like too.

    Kind of hard to explain here, but I did a tutorial on how to create this app using Excel and Twimlbin.

    Instructions are at the following link

    http://offlineclassroom.com/welcome/...g-dialing-app/

    If you set this up for your cold caller, you simply give them ONE number to dial one time, and they are off to the races!
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Originally Posted by thet View Post

    Its never this black and white. And don't think churn and burn isn't using a professional script.

    I normally start the conversation with a churn and burn mentality but when I feel the man/woman is open to talk, I go more in a consulting mode. The goal is always to move a step forward. Whatever that step is.

    Exactly.

    That is exactly as it should be.

    Thank you.

    It's really not apples and oranges, some just pose it that way because they don't want to be lumped in as a mere "telemarketer", which I think is one of the most proud things you can be!

    Pro telemarketers are high caliber selling MACHINES!
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    • Profile picture of the author MLamano
      Just curious, how expert must one be at webdesign to be successful - not just for himself, but for the clients.

      Could you build compelling, revenue generating websites for local businesses using drag and drop builders in WP, with limited knowledge of coding and average knowledge of SEO (quality content, keywords, backlinks, etc)

      There is no doubt a market for webdesign, and I actually considered this possibility a few months back. There are still hundreds of small businesses in every city that have NO web presence.

      Even went so far as to looking into SproutSocial and Hootsuite as a means of creating ongoing value that would justify charging a monthly maintenance fee, but in my corporate career my philosophy has ALWAYS been to under-promise and over-deliver. With my current skillset (I'm certainly no expert at creating high converting websites) I'm not sure I bring the necessary value, would appreciate any/all feedback.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by MLamano View Post

        Just curious, how expert must one be at webdesign to be successful - not just for himself, but for the clients.

        Could you build compelling, revenue generating websites for local businesses using drag and drop builders in WP, with limited knowledge of coding and average knowledge of SEO (quality content, keywords, backlinks, etc)

        There is no doubt a market for webdesign, and I actually considered this possibility a few months back. There are still hundreds of small businesses in every city that have NO web presence.

        Even went so far as to looking into SproutSocial and Hootsuite as a means of creating ongoing value that would justify charging a monthly maintenance fee, but in my corporate career my philosophy has ALWAYS been to under-promise and over-deliver. With my current skillset (I'm certainly no expert at creating high converting websites) I'm not sure I bring the necessary value, would appreciate any/all feedback.


        Talk of web design and/or client marketing strategies isn't really relevant to the subject matter of the OP.

        The purpose of Shadows thread here is to present a "selling" , or "client acquisition" process.

        However, there are a lot of threads devoted to web design, fulfillment, marketing sites, and the viability of various offline "business models"...which would make much more sense to ask in.


        Just my two cents.
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        • Profile picture of the author MLamano
          Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

          Talk of web design and/or client marketing strategies isn't really relevant to the subject matter of the OP.

          The purpose of Shadows thread here is to present a "selling" , or "client acquisition" process.

          However, there are a lot of threads devoted to web design, fulfillment, marketing sites, and the viability of various offline "business models"...which would make much more sense to ask in.


          Just my two cents.
          John,

          Point taken, and coming from the corporate sales world I believe every word of Shadows post is accurate.

          However, as an IM newbie, unable to send any PM's, and having come across a thread point on regarding TM and sales, AND in a niche I've taken a look at, why not ask a question to someone who's post I admire and with obvious insight as to my question - Shadow?

          If he chooses to reply great, if he doesn't, I certainly understand. IMHO it was not at all off topic, the title of the post I received via email was "How I made 6 figures in 3 month" and the post was in exactly a niche I've considered.

          No need for us to further engage in this conversation, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but in MY opinion your post was indeed off topic.
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          • Profile picture of the author John Durham
            Originally Posted by MLamano View Post

            No need for us to further engage in this conversation, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but in MY opinion your post was indeed off topic.

            Sorry, my response didn't take into consideration that email promotion. I was just going off the content of the OP and thread title.
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      • Profile picture of the author shadow92
        Originally Posted by MLamano View Post

        Just curious, how expert must one be at webdesign to be successful - not just for himself, but for the clients.

        Could you build compelling, revenue generating websites for local businesses using drag and drop builders in WP, with limited knowledge of coding and average knowledge of SEO (quality content, keywords, backlinks, etc)

        There is no doubt a market for webdesign, and I actually considered this possibility a few months back. There are still hundreds of small businesses in every city that have NO web presence.

        Even went so far as to looking into SproutSocial and Hootsuite as a means of creating ongoing value that would justify charging a monthly maintenance fee, but in my corporate career my philosophy has ALWAYS been to under-promise and over-deliver. With my current skillset (I'm certainly no expert at creating high converting websites) I'm not sure I bring the necessary value, would appreciate any/all feedback.
        I don't want to get too off topic with the thread but I will touch on what you've asked simply because I'm very one sided with this question. Here is my answer:

        If you have not effectively built a website, and promoted it in a manner to bring in a sufficient amount of traffic that gave YOU a positive return on investment of time and/or money, then don't consider offering it as a service to others.

        It's like offering swimming lessons when you yourself can not swim.

        However you made a point in your question which helps with my answer. You have basic knowledge in web design, and there are businesses out there that have no web presence. In my opinion and my opinion only, you have a supply and demand situation that is ethical to capitalize on.

        You don't need to be an expert in web design for you or your clients to profit. There is nothing wrong with offering your services in web design to those who need it. However, as you have stated...you have basic coding knowledge. Don't get in over your head. My suggestion would be to pick several templates and get familiar with them. There are plenty of child themes out there that allow you to customize just about anything on the template.

        Stick with web design and don't focus on anything else. Charge a $50/mo installment to host, maintain, secure, and update the website.

        PLEASE refrain from offering other services like SEO, PPC, etc. Because in all honesty, if you do...you give guys like me a bad rep.

        Build the websites, and learn the industry. Learn the algorithms, what's working and what's not.

        Quality content...most people in SEO couldn't define the correct definition for quality content. It's such a generalized word now that people don't even know the metrics that make content "quality"

        Backlinks...don't even get me started...

        Keywords...well let's just say they're not so important any more. In fact..most "seo guys" screw their clients rankings up because they're so concerned with keywords. Over-optimization is big, especially with CMS's like Wordpress. Hell...before you even ADD the content you're already over-optimized with most Wordpress templates.

        SEO is such a meticulous skill and there's so much involved that someone with "basic knowledge" will not be able to show the client a return. Most guys go in with a $300/mo figure, sign the client on, screw everything up, client contacts me and drops dead on the floor when my team sends them over a DISCOUNTED quote of $2,700/mo...

        I don't say this to discourage you, I say this because I was once filled with "basic" knowledge, like you. From experience I'm telling you to stick to one service, or you'll overwhelm yourself right from the start. Take what you know and build on THAT. I will also tell you from experience that about 90% of your sales will either be web design, or re-design anyway. It's easier to sell than "seo" (i hate calling it that).

        Once you build their website you could offer them a video ranking service...compile pictures they send you, format it to a video slideshow, write a quick 1 minute script, go to Fiverr and hire a voice over artist to read the script, and edit it all together in windows movie maker. Google how to rank a Youtube video and study. Put contact info WITH a prompt in the script at the end of the video. Use a strong CTA with contact info in the title of the video and the website in the description with another call to action.

        Charge them $297 upfront and $100/mo to rank the video. Should only cost you $20-$50 using to get the video on top of the first page with shitty Fiverr services. You cant really f*ck up a YT video as far as ranking goes.

        Of course the prices I'm telling you are just figures, but hopefully you see a trend here...you can still offer a simple service, with little knowledge, and both you and your client can profit from it ..as previously stated.

        But please god don't jump in and offer services you're not familiar with. It really screws people over that know what their doing. Some powertripping gurus will disagree with me but they're "guru's" for a reason...

        If you stick to simple web design, provide good support, and market the shit out of yourself, you will absolutely...100% make money and land clients that will stay with you for years. Slip up on any of that and your wallet will definitely feel it.

        SEO and all the other jumbo will come naturally as you build your business, client base, and knowledge on the topic. Make it an objective of yours to study it on your off hours at night before bed. Before long, you'll be able to come back to this thread and see exactly why I directed you in the direction I did.

        Cheers
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        • Profile picture of the author MLamano
          Originally Posted by shadow92 View Post

          I don't want to get too off topic with the thread but I will touch on what you've asked simply because I'm very one sided with this question. Here is my answer:

          If you have not effectively built a website, and promoted it in a manner to bring in a sufficient amount of traffic that gave YOU a positive return on investment of time and/or money, then don't consider offering it as a service to others.

          It's like offering swimming lessons when you yourself can not swim.

          However you made a point in your question which helps with my answer. You have basic knowledge in web design, and there are businesses out there that have no web presence. In my opinion and my opinion only, you have a supply and demand situation that is ethical to capitalize on.

          You don't need to be an expert in web design for you or your clients to profit. There is nothing wrong with offering your services in web design to those who need it. However, as you have stated...you have basic coding knowledge. Don't get in over your head. My suggestion would be to pick several templates and get familiar with them. There are plenty of child themes out there that allow you to customize just about anything on the template.

          Stick with web design and don't focus on anything else. Charge a $50/mo installment to host, maintain, secure, and update the website.

          PLEASE refrain from offering other services like SEO, PPC, etc. Because in all honesty, if you do...you give guys like me a bad rep.

          Build the websites, and learn the industry. Learn the algorithms, what's working and what's not.

          Quality content...most people in SEO couldn't define the correct definition for quality content. It's such a generalized word now that people don't even know the metrics that make content "quality"

          Backlinks...don't even get me started...

          Keywords...well let's just say they're not so important any more. In fact..most "seo guys" screw their clients rankings up because they're so concerned with keywords. Over-optimization is big, especially with CMS's like Wordpress. Hell...before you even ADD the content you're already over-optimized with most Wordpress templates.

          SEO is such a meticulous skill and there's so much involved that someone with "basic knowledge" will not be able to show the client a return. Most guys go in with a $300/mo figure, sign the client on, screw everything up, client contacts me and drops dead on the floor when my team sends them over a DISCOUNTED quote of $2,700/mo...

          I don't say this to discourage you, I say this because I was once filled with "basic" knowledge, like you. From experience I'm telling you to stick to one service, or you'll overwhelm yourself right from the start. Take what you know and build on THAT. I will also tell you from experience that about 90% of your sales will either be web design, or re-design anyway. It's easier to sell than "seo" (i hate calling it that).

          Once you build their website you could offer them a video ranking service...compile pictures they send you, format it to a video slideshow, write a quick 1 minute script, go to Fiverr and hire a voice over artist to read the script, and edit it all together in windows movie maker. Google how to rank a Youtube video and study. Put contact info WITH a prompt in the script at the end of the video. Use a strong CTA with contact info in the title of the video and the website in the description with another call to action.

          Charge them $297 upfront and $100/mo to rank the video. Should only cost you $20-$50 using to get the video on top of the first page with shitty Fiverr services. You cant really f*ck up a YT video as far as ranking goes.

          Of course the prices I'm telling you are just figures, but hopefully you see a trend here...you can still offer a simple service, with little knowledge, and both you and your client can profit from it ..as previously stated.

          But please god don't jump in and offer services you're not familiar with. It really screws people over that know what their doing. Some powertripping gurus will disagree with me but they're "guru's" for a reason...

          If you stick to simple web design, provide good support, and market the shit out of yourself, you will absolutely...100% make money and land clients that will stay with you for years. Slip up on any of that and your wallet will definitely feel it.

          SEO and all the other jumbo will come naturally as you build your business, client base, and knowledge on the topic. Make it an objective of yours to study it on your off hours at night before bed. Before long, you'll be able to come back to this thread and see exactly why I directed you in the direction I did.

          Cheers
          Shadow,

          Thank you for your thorough and informative response, I expected nothing less! I absolutely agree there's a great market for even basic websites, and I do have enough knowledge to make them functional and attractive.

          And you're right on point about ethics, that is exactly why I posted my query on your thread. And while I know some basic SEO, the only thing I know for sure is that it's an ever changing beast!

          If I elect to take the plunge I'll stick to the basic site design stuff in the beginning, and monitor the results closely with every client. Also see the value/justification in charging a small monthly fee for hosting that would generate a slowly goring residual, may I ask which hosting provider you'd recommend?

          Thanks again, I very much appreciate your willingness to help out a novice! Certainly don't want to take your thread off topic and will not take this conversation any further here, would have sent PM but don't yet have that privilege.
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  • Profile picture of the author kursat
    This is a very important post for people starting up or having difficulty on making the work. I also had to do the hard calls and walk around town centers delivering flyers to promote my work. It was cold, boring and difficult but I know that it had to be that way. I had to see that if you do not make the effort, you can not start making money. It does get easier, just stick with a plan - any plan.... Thanks for the share, I loved it.
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  • Profile picture of the author club20coaching
    Awesome article I actually got refereed to this article in another post.

    Well Done Brother!!
    Signature
    Lead Generation Is My Calling!
    How Much Do You Need For Your Business?

    I Need 100 Leads
    I Need 500 Leads
    I Need 1,000+ Sales Leads!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author GowebMkt
    Hi Shadow,

    Can you please share the details of what was included in your '$500/mo Video Marketing' package?
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  • Profile picture of the author Underground
    John, I know you've played a part in getting people to just go from doing nothing to picking up the phone and dialling like a machine all day, and obviously that is better than nothing and if you keep at it will find the laydowns.

    Compared to nothing your strategy is great.

    Laydown telemarketing Vs Advances telesales is a different story.


    You're preaching a dogma to newbies here, and it's not one that's going to maximize the effectiveness of their sales process.

    By maximizing the effectiveness, I mean getting the equation into the positive.

    Spending most of the day on the phone everyday calling random, untargeted people by business category to get 1 maybe 2 people who will buy there and then - from an absolute cold-call from a stranger, is the least efficient use of time and a complete waste of a large majority of potential buyers who could have been buyers with a more sophisticated and involved approach.

    So the equation of time and resources invested/number of leads and sale returned is, even if still netting a sale or 2, is skewered in the wrong direction. You're spending far too much time and resources for a very minimal return on what is actually possible.

    Wouldn't people rather hire someone and consistently generate 11 sales in a week rather than over 3 months?

    You get on the phone and call. That's great.

    But there is a massive difference in response rates and people willing to engage with you based on the proposition that is put them.

    A proposition which is just a straight 'here's what I have. you wouldn't be interested in one yourself would you' is just not going to compare with other ones where the value proposition isn't so risky or asking them for a major commitment.

    Speaking to someone over the phone for a few minutes and then asking them to pay you $1000 there and then is just too big.

    Even just asking them do they want to be sold to buy your supervisor is to much for most people in a busy day to contest with. They immediately have to stop what they are doing, and you will only get the real laydowns who were thinking about that very thing that day.

    Inviting them on a webinar, or inviting them to receive other info is going to get far more people to accept the initial proposition. Even to an appointment is not so immediate.

    Inviting them to receive something coveted to them for free will boost response rates, bring more people into your funnel and boost your sales figures considerably.

    So your getting 2-10x more sales for the same work or less.

    Check out the ROI these companies achieved.

    http://www.soarselling.com/wp-conten...ost_Anyone.pdf

    Hiring someone to make calls is great and will yield results and if your profit margins are high, that is enough make a good living.

    But if you want to generate the highest possible revenues and return from your efforts then there are much better sales processes that will help you do that then churn and burn.

    People should invest time looking into them instead of simply going along with majority opinion to just get on the phone and look for lay-downs.
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  • Profile picture of the author Underground
    I forgot to add that there are cold email approaches that will have you selling more and being able to pitch more businesses owners a day and set up the next step.

    Just listening to Dan Kennedy's magnetic email marketing course, and was thinking how important email is. I'll be implementing an outbound phone sequence on a bought, general list shortly that is about offering fremiums over the phone to build a email list of qualified leads (if they are interested in the fremium than they are qualified for later upsells). Giving something away for free is obviously going to boost response rates. People need to opt-in to get it. Then I can use email and phone follow up over the next week or so to upsell them on better paid versions using a system like Dan's or Ryan Deiss' which are similar.

    Another strategy to target a different segment of medium to large businesses with corporate structures that I'll be using in tandem to just mass tele campaign is the Breakthrough Email system from Brian Kuerzberger. Incidentally, just listing to the first CD of Dan's email course, they are interviewing Brian Kuerzberger and they use his method.

    I have his course. It's the real deal, has made billions, but has a really low volume that most will want to ramp up, but should perhaps discipline themselves not to. He advocates just keeping 20 businesses at anyone time in your sales process, because the communication and back and forth and workload you'll generate from just those 20 contacts at any one time in enough to handle for one sales rep, and any more will be too much to handle.

    He states an 80-90 response rate from emails. And emails around 4 people in the same company simultaneously, letting them know he has contacted 3 other people looking for the right person to speak to. Just a sentence or 2. Underneath that he has his value proposition/usp/elevator pitch or whatever, but in a non-sales way. The first email is basically an enquiry and seeking more info on who to talk to, but they also read a 'pitch' like most would open with on the phone.

    I've seen the same primitive, brute force, inefficient method preached to newbies here for years. It's harmful to their business to use a method that yields the lowest returns simple because 'they can get a sale or two out of every 100 calls (which is very unlikely etc for phone pro's)'. And just wanted to counter balance that by pointing out to other there are others ways that have been proven to produce much better results.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    In response to Underground,


    Certainly, if there is a better way than telemarketing I am all for it, having made thousands of sales online without picking up a phone for years, myself, in several markets. However this thread was about a telemarketing strategy that worked for someone, and so, it was appropriate for a telemarketing professional to participate in the discussion.


    I don't think anyone, including the OP, is saying it's the end all be all; simply that it is an effective way to get business, that always has and always will work, in lieu of having another way that is less time consuming and more effortless, as you have rightly stated.


    Many people don't have the knowledge, understanding, or resources to pull off a "pull" marketing campaign, and , if that is the case; telemarketing will get them some business. I think that is all anyone is saying.


    Very worth while to talk about, particularly in a thread about that subject.

    -John
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  • Profile picture of the author Underground
    To be fair, earlier in this thread you were criticizing other advanced or alternative techniques and approached as BS theory and basically saying that all you need it to pick up the phone with the most basic pitch.

    I've seen you advocate that many times in the past and it became the default sales process on this place. Every newb thought all you had to do was make a hundred calls a day and they'd be rolling in it. I've seen many people make some good money, so it's works obviously.

    But many people don't even know there are other options with better results.

    You maybe be a professional in using this approach John. But you could be using that knowledge to instruct people here better so they get maximum results and don't just score a sale here and there.

    For some reason, the heard alway gravitate toward this method. It's probably the least efficient phone method next to doing nothing.

    It's best place is if someone is broke, desperate and badly in need of cash and has a week to make calls and score some much needed cash.

    For people with different concerns about how to create an efficient, reliable, repeatable sales process for their business that can return the maximum amount of leads and sales for every hour invested, it's a very poor one.

    Either they'd have to spend the best part of the day on the phone making cold calls, or in having to hire someone spend the time and money to manage, train and employ them to ultimately use a sales method that yields the lowest relative ROI to other methods.


    I guess there for where we are, where a lot of people are desperate have the biz-opper quick money mentality rather than an business-minded approach, it's probably right.

    And of course is far better than doing nothing.
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    • Profile picture of the author shadow92
      - Underground

      I by no means am suggesting that people use this in their business model. Everything you're saying is accurate and for the books, I do have an office where we cover the same models you're mentioning. So I know what your point is. Of course with a more targeted offer, list, script, and strategy - you're going to see a higher return on your efforts.

      However, this thread was not for that. In fact, it was started in rebuttal to talk just like this. Many people boast marketing techniques, telemarketing specifically that are too advanced for the broke noob that doesn't have the resources or experience you or I do.

      This was meant to show that pulling a construction worker off the street, paying him a mere $10/hr to call random leads, using a basic script...will in fact yield results. Obviously my other employees working in tele sales rope in much higher numbers. But that's because they're equip with a much better strategy and resources.

      The idea is about routine. Reality is, most people on here asking for help probably haven't even made 500 dials let alone build a consistent routine. It's my opinion, but I feel it's more important to train yourself to follow a basic routine for at least 60 days before progressing forward and starting to make changes.

      Be it advanced systems, or basic "churn and burn" systems...you have to stay consistent on either side to make it work. By simplifying the system it narrows down the goals, and eliminates some of the anxiety that many face with cold calling. If your goal is to simply call for 4 hours a day, and say a two sentence pitch to whoever picks up the phone, you can't argue that ones anxiety will be much lower than if your goal was to try to meet sales quotas.

      My point was not intended to rag on more sophisticated systems, but to open some eyes as to what simplicity can yield if you're consistent. Many of these threads get so bogged down in "techniques" that people think it's over before they even try it. And that's why there's so many people asking the most absurd questions day in and day out.

      But you're absolutely right in every point you make. Except I don't think you're taking the context of the OP into play. This is not a model to build a BUSINESS on, it's a model to START a business on for someone who doesn't know what in gods name they're doing.
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      • Profile picture of the author Underground
        Originally Posted by shadow92 View Post

        - Underground

        I by no means am suggesting that people use this in their business model. Everything you're saying is accurate and for the books, I do have an office where we cover the same models you're mentioning. So I know what your point is. Of course with a more targeted offer, list, script, and strategy - you're going to see a higher return on your efforts.

        However, this thread was not for that. In fact, it was started in rebuttal to talk just like this. Many people boast marketing techniques, telemarketing specifically that are too advanced for the broke noob that doesn't have the resources or experience you or I do.

        This was meant to show that pulling a construction worker off the street, paying him a mere $10/hr to call random leads, using a basic script...will in fact yield results. Obviously my other employees working in tele sales rope in much higher numbers. But that's because they're equip with a much better strategy and resources.

        The idea is about routine. Reality is, most people on here asking for help probably haven't even made 500 dials let alone build a consistent routine. It's my opinion, but I feel it's more important to train yourself to follow a basic routine for at least 60 days before progressing forward and starting to make changes.

        Be it advanced systems, or basic "churn and burn" systems...you have to stay consistent on either side to make it work. By simplifying the system it narrows down the goals, and eliminates some of the anxiety that many face with cold calling. If your goal is to simply call for 4 hours a day, and say a two sentence pitch to whoever picks up the phone, you can't argue that ones anxiety will be much lower than if your goal was to try to meet sales quotas.

        My point was not intended to rag on more sophisticated systems, but to open some eyes as to what simplicity can yield if you're consistent. Many of these threads get so bogged down in "techniques" that people think it's over before they even try it. And that's why there's so many people asking the most absurd questions day in and day out.

        But you're absolutely right in every point you make. Except I don't think you're taking the context of the OP into play. This is not a model to build a BUSINESS on, it's a model to START a business on for someone who doesn't know what in gods name they're doing.

        I hear exactly what you are saying. I love these threads where people share there real results, and like you say they are few and far between.

        I should have pointed out the distinction between the OP and the comments my input was actually aimed at. I have an approach that is simply to phone a general list and telling them about a special discount we have on, give details and seeing would they like us to send over a voucher which they can redeem if the want to take up the offer. Simple and straight-forward. Perfect for a beginner and easy to hire people for that don't need intensive training.

        So your intention for this thread which you just pointed out has massive value for who is aimed at. How hiring someone with no sales knowledge and a simple script works and can make great money.

        My replies have really been in response to this quote from John Durham:

        If pro's around here would make things less complicated to implement then maybe more people would succeed. I agree. I hate all the text book theory stuff... and renaming of techniques that are basic, to make them sound sophisticated... Just simply ask someone if they are interested in web design...or in this case, if they know anyone interested. That's all... If there is interest then the rest is natural.

        John has been saying this for years and knocking every method but the simple casual, informal sales pitch looking for lay-downs. It's long been the most used method here, and some people have benefited, and others have made north of 5000 calls and got nowhere and should have tried other methods sooner.


        So it isn't the content in your OP, which is really helpful, that I was responding to. Hiring someone to do that initial aspect, who could be near enough anyone, would massively benefit and free up time here for businesses owners to get on with other things and run and grow their business without making hundreds of cold calls a day and can then speak to only qualified, interesting people.

        That is different than advising people to get on the phone all day themselves and look for lay-downs and bashing every other alternative method. Which is what I was arguing against.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Underground, if you have a system whereby a person can start tomorrow morning, with no money, as a newby, without going through months of learning in order to get up the money to afford that learning for themselves, then by all means, share it with me. By all means, I want to know. I will start testing it tomorrow and if I make a sale this week with it, I will preach your message, and tell everyone that telemarketing is NOT the best way for a newby to start from nothing.


    Sorry I offended. Sincerely. I really do mean that.


    I am just sharing something that enriched my own life, however zealously, in hopes that it will enrich others the same way. That's really all. It is not my fault if people respond to it.


    Sorry. Seriously.


    Whatever works works. Im just sharing what worked for me. Gonna step out of this thread, so as not to cause any more issues.


    Please PM me if you come up with that plan mentioned. I will seriously try it.


    -John
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    • Profile picture of the author Underground
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Underground, if you have a system whereby a person can start tomorrow morning, with no money, as a newby, without going through months of learning in order to get up the money to afford that learning for themselves, then by all means, share it with me. By all means, I want to know. I will start testing it tomorrow and if I make a sale this week with it, I will preach your message, and tell everyone that telemarketing is NOT the best way for a newby to start from nothing.


      Sorry I offended. Sincerely. I really do mean that.


      I am just sharing something that enriched my own life, however zealously, in hopes that it will enrich others the same way. That's really all. It is not my fault if people respond to it, and get results.


      Sorry. Seriously.


      Whatever works works. Im just sharing what worked for me.

      Do you really think any other method other than trying to find the lay-down who will buy there and then would take months more training? Rather than a few simple, strategic additions to the script?



      Wasn't the bower method giving away a free website first? Or the directory. And then upselling later? I know you've done some variation of that. So you'd know the difference in response rates.


      The proposition of them accepting something of value for free is one that people are much more likely to respond positively too than asking them to buy something there and then or expecting them to move the conversation in that way because they happen to be in the market at that very instant.

      Same as if you are calling just to invite them on a webinar or to send some info over the might find interesting.

      The use of the word value proposition isn't just empty words. Meclabs have done millions of studies on why people buy and it comes down to the strength of the value proposition.


      Benefit vs cost is the main dynamic. Does the benefit of taking the action you want them to take outweigh the costs and potential risks?

      To many people, asking them to buy something for hundreds after a brief conversation with a stranger on a phone is too much risk.

      Asking them to receive something or giving them something for free that you know most of your market want and is relevant, beneficial and appealing to them and would benefit them contains far less risk and will fill a pipeline with far more leads that can be cultivated, warmed up, worked on and plumped up for the sale. And a legitimate reason to follow up and increases touch points, which is vital.

      So you could test both of the propositions and see which generates more chances for sales conversations and generates the most amount of leads over the space of a week or so. Something they want or some solid info about something their interested interested in vs going for lay-downs.

      Joe Polish uses the send info stuff. So did Jordan Belforts company. A guy here who runs a telemarketing company called Mwind has a beautiful script based on the far more easier to say yes to proposition of sending info. I went from no responses to nearly 40% by making a simple strategic change. One telesales professional, who wrote the book Cold Calling for Chickens, uses it in a 7 step question sequence right before the last questions to drop their guard, before asking for an appointment after that.

      Aaron Ross, who bought Salesforce up to the billion dollar revenue mark talks about the main metric being lead velocity, how quickly and consistently can you bring in leads into the funnel, when it comes to predicating sales growth. More leads bought in through outbound lead gen like telemarketing, means more sales later down the road for because a certain number will convert to sales. That is the corporate environment where the sales are more complex, but for many here seeking to generate leads first and foremost into their funnel will greatly increase their sales revenue, and is well worth well the effort setting up.

      However, even making the objective getting people into a more involved funnel where you can sell to them across different media, you can still pick up the lay-downs as you go about things as a bonus. You won't miss them.

      And yes, many people will say yes to give you the brush off and get rid of you. But many of those saying yes to more information are the type of people (the majority) who need more touches than 1, and more nurturing and educating than the lay-down.

      You can target both in one simple script. There is no need for months of training to do it.


      For most people here, where they are likely selling website, achieving what the OP did with a simple repeatable, outsource-able process would be life changing and they should be all over this method and invest in it.

      Also, John, if someone has the gift of the gab to be able to be good enough on the phone and is seeking only a few sales a week so they can quit their job, then what you advocate is spot on.

      But it's a disservice to people who follow what you say knocking other methods as complicated, BS theory from egotists who don't know what they are talking about, and advocating yours as the only thing needed, because not everyone is in the same boat and their business requires something else and they should keep open and learning and seeking the best methods..

      I think everyone should consistently study every sales approach there is and take what they need and adapt it. They shouldn't be told that all other methods but such and such method are an unnecessary waste of time.

      That's it. I hope you take that as it's meant and not some personal attack.
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      • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
        Originally Posted by Underground View Post


        McLabs have done millions of studies on why people buy and it comes down to the strength of the value proposition.
        In recent times they have said it's internal motivation
        is the biggest determiner of response.

        I've been saying it in my Tipping Point.

        It allows you to step into the life of your ideal prospect
        so you understand, apprecite their personal situation
        like no other, therefore have a competitive advantage
        over everyone else

        Failure to do so makes for so many presumptions that
        make the seller look out of touch, ignorant, pushy and
        straight out annoying.

        You can't create a value proposition without knowing what
        tips peoe over the edge and go looking to buy.

        The founder of Domino's saw mothers with screaming kids
        getting takeaways, so he solved the problem with home delivery
        of fresh hot pizza in 30 minutes or it's free.

        Best,
        Doctor E. Vile
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        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
          Value Proposition as it relates to what Underground is communicating is not USP per se. The methodology over at MecLabs ( http://www.marketingexperiments.com/ ) has produced an equation that defines a "Conversion" The equation looks like:

          C = 4m + 3v + 2( i + f ) -2a
          • C = Conversion
          • m = motivation of user ( when )
          • v = clarity of value proposition
          • i = incentive to take action
          • f = friction elements of process
          • a = anxiety of entering information
          The variable "m" would be the "tipping point" and "v" would be the value proposition. So the motivation has to be inline with the value in order for there to be a conversion.

          Interestingly enough Motivation is the greatest hurdle that has to be overcome in terms of a conversion and right in at #2 is the Value. As Ewen has described many times in the past seeking individuals that are at their tipping point is Key. But, I find that placing the right Value in front of that motivation is a huge factor.

          Using your Dominoes Pizza analogy within these terms takes on a different light. The motivation is they want food delivered in their chaotic busy lives. the friction was ordering pizza and it taking an hour and a half to get it. Dominoes reduced friction... and at the same time reduced the anxiety of feeding a family in a timely manor.

          Look forward to todays Dominoes and the message is far different. No longer is time a factor, but the VALUE of fresh ingredients and a more diversified menu is. ( they have recently changed their name from "Dominoes Pizza" to just "Dominoes" )

          If anyone has the time... and lots of it ( you will see when you get there ) Dr. Flint McGloughlin and the MecLabs team / community has some pretty insightful information on sales and the indicators in the process. Well worth the time spent there.


          Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

          In recent times they have said it's internal motivation
          is the biggest determiner of response.

          I've been saying it in my Tipping Point.

          It allows you to step into the life of your ideal prospect
          so you understand, apprecite their personal situation
          like no other, therefore have a competitive advantage
          over everyone else

          Failure to do so makes for so many presumptions that
          make the seller look out of touch, ignorant, pushy and
          straight out annoying.

          You can't create a value proposition without knowing what
          tips peoe over the edge and go looking to buy.

          The founder of Domino's saw mothers with screaming kids
          getting takeaways, so he solved the problem with home delivery
          of fresh hot pizza in 30 minutes or it's free.

          Best,
          Doctor E. Vile
          Signature
          Tools, Content, and Strategies to Develop Your Online Commerce Business - Coming Soon
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          • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
            The 4 next to m and 3 next to v
            in the formula represent the impact,
            4 being the biggest.

            Again it's the prospects motivation.

            And that motivation already resides
            in the prospect before he or she comes
            into contact with a marketer.

            Too many people attempt to motivate a non motivated person
            instead of talking what makes sense to a buyer that
            hasn't yet found a solution.

            Best,
            Doctor E. Vile
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            • Profile picture of the author savidge4
              Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

              The 4 next to m and 3 next to v
              in the formula represent the impact,
              4 being the biggest.
              With all respect. No it does not have to do with "Impact", this is math to determine the level needed to cover to create a conversion. and for this we will say all variables are the same. C being a conversion we can say = 1. so to keep everything on a even keel we can assume that each variable as a single unit is .11. Each variable is a representation of the mark needed to create a conversion. Motivation being 4m indicates that this is the largest hurdle to overcome.

              Using these ideals the equation with pure numbers would look something like:


              1 = .44 + .33 + .22 + .22 -.22



              Again as you have explained time and again with tipping point. This is self motivated and has little to do with outside motivation. Looking at the numbers above Motivation is a whopping 44% of the overall picture. Walking into a sales presentation OR the client hitting a page motivation without question has to be there.

              Or does it? I think we all kind of agree it does.. but what about impulse buying? What if the motivation is not so much there, but the value or the incentive is there in greater number to over ride the motivation? throw in the lack of friction and anxiety into the equation, and you might get a conversion out of the deal. - what ever a conversion is.

              For me... that is what makes this equation so powerful... ( more so in online sales ) you CAN start to force the motivation ( in theory if they are on your site there is motivation to some extent ) - the Value Proposition can do just that. And this is what the folks at Meclabs discuss, and this is what Underground was discussing ( I believe )

              Value Proposition is the variable out of the bunch we as marketers have the most control over. We can reduce friction only so much. We can reduce Anxiety only so much. We can control incentive only so much. Motivation.. its there or its not. VALUE? there is where conversions are made and lost.
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              • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                Putting C = 4m + 3v + 2( i + f ) -2a into context to the OP.

                When you are cold calling the motivation HAS to be there with the person you are talking to. Once you contact a person with the right motivation, the value of you offer is then what normally sells. You CAN still blow it with Friction and Anxiety.

                So when I Cold Call "Motivation" becomes the #2 Pre-qualification point. ( I call over sees a lot so speaking English is #1 LOL ) So for most people Motivation would be the #1 Pre-Qualification.

                You can ask very direct questions to determine motivation. Do you have a website? yes or no. If no.. Have you thought about developing one? Yes or No. if no, is this something you would consider? Yes or no. if no.. thank them for their time and dial the next.

                The #1 objective is to find those people that are ready to buy now.. and if you ask the right questions you can identify those that may not be willing to buy now, but could be contacted at a later date ( I use this strategy with Satellite services cold calling - many are locked into contracts, they are usually pretty nice about telling us when their contract is up - Usually the motivation, value, and incentive is there once the friction of the contract is out of the way )

                But in reference to the OP, this would be something that the "Closer" would do. The guy making the dials... just trying to find the person in the right frame of motivation. It is then the job of the closer to equal that Motivation with Value, while decreasing Friction and Anxiety - maybe with the use of an Incentive.
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        • Profile picture of the author Underground
          Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

          In recent times they have said it's internal motivation
          is the biggest determiner of response.

          I've been saying it in my Tipping Point.

          It allows you to step into the life of your ideal prospect
          so you understand, apprecite their personal situation
          like no other, therefore have a competitive advantage
          over everyone else

          Failure to do so makes for so many presumptions that
          make the seller look out of touch, ignorant, pushy and
          straight out annoying.

          You can't create a value proposition without knowing what
          tips peoe over the edge and go looking to buy.

          The founder of Domino's saw mothers with screaming kids
          getting takeaways, so he solved the problem with home delivery
          of fresh hot pizza in 30 minutes or it's free.

          Best,
          Doctor E. Vile

          I simplified, mislabelled and probably distorted what their value proposition actually is in all the elements that comprise of and measure the strength of one.

          Their value proposition course was amazing where they went into all the detail and documented how they'd been working on it for years, since the start of the net, trying to get funding from universities to study the psychology of buying online, the tests and the elements involved. And being a kind of geek, I loved it.

          In practise though, the conclusion is profoundly simple. The reason why a motivated person says yes or no to a an action is down to the proposition they are faced with. And the equation can be altered to get it to the strongest and most compelling version.

          It simplified and demystified marketing for me. Next to that, you're tipping point did the same thing. Got to the very heart of the matter very simply and eloquently, stripping away all that is unnecessary.


          Considering I have many different segments, products and markets to target in one company being able to simply work with two variables: value prop and tipping point for each segment makes it manageable coming up with marketing and sales material for each one.

          Having just seen the same idea expressed twice in different places, about not trying to create desire, the other one saying that the major force, power or urge that makes a business work comes from the market itself, not from the advertising or marketing. You can only channel the pre-existing desires in the market and channel it to your product or service. I just need to remember that element too.

          I guess the OP's strategy in this case was in hiring someone at a certain point to find people at that tipping point for him who he could then close at a profit and why it produced such a great financial return. Nothing extraneous or unnecessary in the approach.
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          • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
            Originally Posted by Underground View Post


            It simplified and demystified marketing for me. Next to that, you're tipping point did the same thing. Got to the very heart of the matter very simply and eloquently, stripping away all that
            Wow, thanks for referencing the Tipping Point with McLabs Value Proposition.

            Pleased it's creating clarity in this tiny part of the marketing world.

            Best,
            Doctor E. Vile
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  • Profile picture of the author Diana S.
    Yes, cold calling works.

    I’ve been a freelance writer doing marketing communications for almost 25 years and every time I need work I get on the phone.

    It takes large numbers of calls but it doesn’t require a fancy script.

    First I find the right people to call. Then I make the call during business hours. (I believe that calling before or after work hours is annoying as all get out, especially now that many people are taking calls on their cell phones and are not at their desks.)

    I have a simple script. Basically, I ask them if they use freelance writers or have thought about using freelance writers. If there’s absolutely no interest, I thank them for their time and go on to the next call. If there’s an interest, I continue the conversation.

    If there is no answer, I leave a message that includes my name and why I am calling. Then I immediately send an email that explains my services and how I can help them.

    I explain the whole thing in Real Skills, Real Income: A Proven Marketing System to Land Well-Paid Freelance and Consulting Work in 30 Days or Less, my book available on Amazon.

    -Diana Schneidman
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Okay, I'm jumping back in.


    For what it's worth Underground, I too see the value in what you are saying...


    I think I may have come across in a way that could be seen as antagonizing the issue, and haven't acknowledged what you are saying to the extent that I should have. I have learned some lessons over time, and it's important to acknowledge that there are a lot of people with stuff to share that is valuable, and I shouldn't be so singularly focused on my own points sometimes.


    If you will indulge:


    One reason I tend to move away from the more advanced subjects myself when talking to newbies is that, I once had a room, which I created from the ground up that sold directory listings.


    It was a niche market, all of our leads came in from offline affiliates, who were basically bird dogs who sent potential customers to their own affiliate web pages, which we provided for them. The potential customers would fill out a form (inquiry) on the agents web page. I had a few hundred recruits nationally. They each received a commission for the leads that came through their pages, if our telemarketers closed them.


    We weren't cold calling at all. My telemarketers were basically not even selling, rather "qualifying" customers to see if they were a good match for our service. So it was a pretty efficient system. The people who called in were already 70% sold by the recruiting agents, and the web pages they were sent to by the agents... We closed maybe 1 out of 3 inquiries on the first call.


    The reason I advertised to affiliates instead of directly to the end customers was because I found that it was too hard to advertise my services directly to the end customers in such a competitive market. I had tried it a lot, and it had never panned out for me...


    However, it was EASY to advertise to people who were looking for commissioned sales opportunities (What I am referring to as "offline Affiliates") , and THOSE people would respond to my ads by the hundreds.


    Online advertising had finally worked... however indirectly.


    There was another benefit I would also discover:


    Not only did these affiliates have tons of people filling out inquiries about our directory listings, but I began noticing that my site was listed ALL down the first page of the search engines for our keywords, because all of the people I had recruited as offline affiliates had begun promoting their company web pages, and driving us up the search engines. They had hundreds of articles and listings all over the internet that I hadn't even placed myself or worked for...


    I said all of that to say this:


    I am not unfamiliar with better ways of targeting prospects, nor the efficiency of providing telemarketers with a higher quality of exclusively generated leads.


    In the time leading up to that though, I had spent TONS of money trying to learn how to advertise directly to end customers, before I figured this out. And I never was successful. My efforts were a money pit.


    It took me years (of reading on the Warrior Forum), and it took me losing my ass about a dozen different times to the tune of thousands upon thousands of dollars over time, that I really didn't have to spend being on a mere telemarketing manager's salary throughout those years.


    I basically lost my ass ALOT, and spent all of my family's disposable income trying to learn to do things like advertise, create offline email lists, and the like.


    I had went through Perry Marshall's courses, and before that I went through CORY RUDLE's courses, and I spent every spare dime I had after buying their expensive systems, in order to test out the ideas they presented. Failure after failure.


    Their ideas were valid, but there were a million nuances to them that, even though they explained them thoroughly, would still take me years to really grasp, and understand, or to OWN the knowledge they were sharing.


    Then I bought some course that taught you how to do it through SEO (Natural Search Traffic) for 500 bucks , and I spent 6 months working on it, and a ton of money on trying to implement it... and it came to nothing.


    Since those days, I have learned how to build lists, and I have learned a little about how to advertise, and I have started to own my knowledge of IM to some extent...that took a decade to fully grasp...


    Today I have the experience of having written reports that yield inquiries and sales... or as Claude refers to them as "Lead Generation" books. I accidentally learned that, without even planning to... It would have taken me years to learn how to do it well on PURPOSE.


    I think for MOST people, it takes awhile to own their knowledge of IM, even if they are taking it in like crazy and cramming their brains with it.


    Eventually you get it, but there are so many nuances that most of them you learn accidentally, while trying something else.


    IN SPITE OF ALL OF THAT THOUGH...


    The ONE thing I know that a person can grasp without years of learning IM, and without years of learning advanced pitching techniques, which will work for them absolutely, is how to find "lay downs", and put money in their pocket that will help them fund all of this other development.


    Basically, a guy who works construction and has never been on the internet, like Shadows cousin, can do that.


    So in my own experience, that has been the easiest thing for people to grasp.


    Many of the people who I have taught to get laydowns on the phone got their start that way, and now they know more about offline marketing than I do, and that basic start funded all of their learning.


    It's the one thing I know that they can do without a huge learning curve in order to get them through until they can understand all the other stuff, and more importantly, give them the initial traction and confidence to believe they can actually have an effect and make something , (ANYTHING), happen.


    So I hope that helps you to understand where Im coming from.


    Again, my apology was sincere.


    -JD
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  • Profile picture of the author Mav91890
    People seem to think 11 sales in less than two and a half months is bad. And that may be true for you. But for the newbie starting out, that could mean the world to them and would be more than enough to get in the game if they are running a lean and mean operation.
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    • Profile picture of the author animal44
      Originally Posted by Underground View Post

      Something like this joint venture thing is very intriguing. I hadn't thought about that in my current situation, but I could barter swap some businesses owners who have sufficient contact with people who form my potential client base and already have a trust based relationship, and incentive them to pitch their clients on a special offer I've put on especially for their customers.
      Just to clarify, it doesn't have to be a barter, focus on whatever the JV partner wants. If you can solve their problem and also solve your own, then you're quids in. I'm sure you already know this... :-)
      Originally Posted by Underground View Post

      Was this lady who was selling for you pitching her clients with your deal?
      She went above and beyond. Our expectation was she would send out an offer to her list. What she did, was go through her list and pick out those she felt were best fit and then pitched on our behalf. We did a another JV with a printer, who just sent out our offer, and the results weren't as good, but still, not bad... :-)

      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      if you have a system whereby a person can start tomorrow morning, with no money, as a newby, without going through months of learning in order to get up the money to afford that learning for themselves...
      If there's anything that will lead to failure for a newbie, it's got to be cold calling. Who wants to spend all day on the phone, facing rejection. Those who do it, or have done it, professionally may be fine with it, but the shy newbie will be put off.

      These days, we almost always start with an email - a curiosity email. Then my assistant follows up with a call to schedule a call with me, regarding the email. This get a very high close rate. Far more effective than a cold call. It's not interruptive, nor is it needy and desperate. And it doesn't eat into my time.

      The key for our newbie is the curiosity email. This involves putting yourself into the shoes of the prospect. No equations needed...! :-) And little learning required...
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      • Profile picture of the author savidge4
        And this is easier than just calling? All you need to do is put your self in the prospects shoes? and for 2 seconds you don't think that simple little "curiosity e-mail" doesn't fall under the scrutiny of the same equation? come on now.

        If there is a part in all of this that would lead to failure it is the close process, and here is why. Cold calling is a 3 part process. pre-qualification, qualifying, and then closing. The beauty of the OP is that the young man ( or older man ) that had no experience what so ever was just pre-qualifying.

        his JOB was only 1 part of the 3 needed steps to closing a deal. I think most people that reach for the phone gun for the sale W A Y to fast. There is the other spectrum that simply never try the close.

        Even in your process there is a clear separation of these steps. I think more than anything there is the need to identify the steps in the process. and knowing you really cant skip any of them. Regardless how the process looks.

        And why is it that everyone says "...spend all day on the phone"? in th OP 4 hours a day is not all day...anyone that is in business for themselves understands 4 hours isn't even half a day... more like a quarter! LOL

        Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

        If there's anything that will lead to failure for a newbie, it's got to be cold calling. Who wants to spend all day on the phone, facing rejection. Those who do it, or have done it, professionally may be fine with it, but the shy newbie will be put off.

        These days, we almost always start with an email - a curiosity email. Then my assistant follows up with a call to schedule a call with me, regarding the email. This get a very high close rate. Far more effective than a cold call. It's not interruptive, nor is it needy and desperate. And it doesn't eat into my time.

        The key for our newbie is the curiosity email. This involves putting yourself into the shoes of the prospect. No equations needed...! :-) And little learning required...
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        • Profile picture of the author John Durham
          Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post


          And why is it that everyone says "...spend all day on the phone"? in th OP 4 hours a day is not all day...anyone that is in business for themselves understands 4 hours isn't even half a day... more like a quarter! LOL


          Most of the people reporting success are only spending two hours, and NO money, other than their cell phone bill.


          Originally Posted by GEH View Post

          The noise-to-signal ratio is higher than anywhere else in internet marketing, only sharing more case studies can fix that.

          Right on. If there wasn't any risk of someone flagging it as "promotional" I could easily put up 50 case studies right now, to confirm what shadow is talking about.


          Sadly, that pisses people off.
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          • Profile picture of the author Underground
            Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

            Most of the people reporting success are only spending two hours, and NO money, other than their cell phone bill.





            Right on. If there wasn't any risk of someone flagging it as "promotional" I could easily put up 50 case studies right now, to confirm what shadow is talking about.


            Sadly, that pisses people off.
            You're very hard to deal with John. One minute you write a rational, clear post about your side of the argument. The next minute your chucking in dismissive, passive/aggressive indirect remarks at no one in particular so as to avoid singling anyone out but basically aimed at every one who disagrees with you.

            Your reason for advocating the approach is sound, and I know you have knowledge of other methods. I already said that for a newbie starting out, just getting into the game and making sales is better than spending years trying to piece the whole sales and marketing thing together.


            Yours, Diane's and Shadow's approach of just a straight forward pitch to people and moving on and dealing with the ones that are interested works and is proven. I'll be hiring a few people in the coming weeks like the OP did just to do what Diane does in her business and phone people with a simple question or to gage interest and then a simply yes/no proposition.

            I know the simple works. But there are also other methods that can be taught to newbies and they could implement just as quickly for better results relative to what they sell, which requires a different approach.

            The scorn and challenge laid down to Animal with the email is just complete ignorant. So is the scorn for this idea of being on the phone all day.

            When I'm hiring insides sales, they will be on the phone all day. I wan't a sales system working flat out all day, every day.

            To achieve the figures I need and maximize profit each month, in pure ripping pages out of the Yellow pages and dialling, I need to be on the phone all day to get the numbers I need. I could score a sale in a few hours, but you guys have an biz opper mindset and not a business one if just getting one sale is your objective.

            As for this challenge about email, it would benefit you guys shitting on to look into it. Far higher response rates, far more chances to pitch. Far more people able to be contacted in far shorter time. Much more revenue to be made.


            I know and have studied two professionals who have generated hundreds of millions with a system that leads with a curiousity email.


            Breakthrough Email | The #1 Resource for Effective Emailing.

            This is a course I referenced earlier. I have this course. You could go through and learn it in a few days and implement it from the offer. Instantly get past gate keepers and generate massive response rates while being able to get your pitch in front of people in a non-spam way.

            Then there is Aaron Ross, who leads sales teams at Salesforce to over 100 million in revenue. He's recently create 4 ebooks outlining his basic system. Probably not for people who think anything above basic is not worth it, or who thinks working smarter is 'mental masturbation'.

            Customer Seeds:

            http://predictablerevenue.us6.list-m...7&e=d2e4f7a9cf

            Inbound marketing

            http://predictablerevenue.us6.list-m...e&e=d2e4f7a9cf

            Inbound Marketing

            http://predictablerevenue.us6.list-m...8&e=d2e4f7a9cf

            Scalable Sales

            http://predictablerevenue.us6.list-m...2&e=d2e4f7a9cf


            Both these systems are far proven and completely easy to implement. There will be a learning curve, and in Ross' case you might need to put in a week or too or work creating some lead gen material. And yes, even a newbie can a should do that.

            Another guy here used a method similar to Ross' and got around 30% response rates.

            I've consistent got 20-40%. Send out a batch in the morning and wait for replies to come it from people interested in hearing more and so your then speaking to 20-30 people from a hundred emails it took you 30 minutes in the morning to send out.

            Are you guys going to try to tell me you can make a few calls in a couple of hours and get to talk to 20-40 interested and qualified people. Could you even do that all day on the phone.

            I've no stats with Kuerzberger one because I'm still finish of the products I'll be selling to a higher end market where his simple email system works best, but will report them when I have them. He's made over 100 mil in the last 18 months for companies like McDonalds, Micorsoft and others so that must count for something.
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  • Profile picture of the author GEH
    Beautiful, this is just how it happens. No automated crap, no I sit back and the system makes money for me. If you're lazy, gtfo. If you want/need money sit your ass down and work. You have to put time into it, that's the secret ingredient. And you have to be consistent. You also have to learn how to take no as an answer and move on to the next lead.


    The rest is (intellectual at best) masturbation.


    Well done OP, and may this serve as a lesson to the hundreds of online "marketers" that waste their time looking for easy money/blackhat BS and our time by "sharing" what they never did. The noise-to-signal ratio is higher than anywhere else in internet marketing, only sharing more case studies can fix that. Hope the moderators of this site take note as well.
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  • Profile picture of the author VizyMedia
    Very interesting story and the moral applies to all our various businesses.
    We always give up too soon and find excuses. I am a big victim. lol
    Persistence is key in marketing. I can't remember how many times i started little niche sites to rank and gave up just few weeks after instead of regularly posting.
    To be a successful entrepreneur involves 2 major things
    - Start the business
    - Stay in business
    Thanks for posting
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Hi Underground,

    The thing that fired me up on Animals post was this, and I responded to it directly:


    Originally Posted by animal44 View Post



    If there's anything that will lead to failure for a newbie, it's got to be cold calling.

    What he said there is simply not true, and I was offering a rebuttal to that, and asking for him to provide backing for his statement. I don't think that was being irrational.


    I don't think my last few posts dismiss anything that was said in my apology to you


    Again, if one can teach a newby to do that stuff then that's great, I just haven't seen a ton of newby's popping up saying that these things are working for them, right off the bat.

    My comments are not aimed at anyone who disagrees with me, they are aimed at anyone who is making generalizations without offering specifics and backing for their point. Such as animals quote that cold calling is the number one way for a newby to fail.


    That is clearly not true! The case studies SHOW that it is clearly not true, and that is the type of statement I call "BS".




    -JD
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    • Profile picture of the author Underground
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Hi Underground,

      The thing that fired me up on Animals post was this, and I responded to it directly:





      What he said there is simply not true, and I was offering a rebuttal to that, and asking for him to provide backing for his statement. I don't think that was being irrational.


      I don't think my last few posts dismiss anything that was said in my apology to you


      Again, if one can teach a newby to do that stuff then that's great, I just haven't seen a ton of newby's popping up saying that these things are working for them, right off the bat.

      My comments are not aimed at anyone who disagrees with me, they are aimed at anyone who is making generalizations without offering specifics and backing for their point. Such as animals quote that cold calling is the number one way for a newby to fail.


      That is clearly not true! The case studies SHOW that it is clearly not true, and that is the type of statement I call "BS".




      -JD
      Ok, thanks for clarifying. I can see how that statement would be a red flag to a bull.

      Someone people just aren't cut out for the phone and his statement makes sense to them. A guy here made over 5000 calls once and got nowhere. Not one sale. Even a great marketer here had very poor results from a campaign, which he disclosed here, to prove that sometimes it's not the best fit.

      I know cold calling works. But I don't think it's for every one. For those who is just is not for, I think they should hire someone else who can make it work. Who have no problem getting on the phone and making it work. Many people can sharpen their game, but for some it's best to hire.
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    • Profile picture of the author animal44
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      The thing that fired me up on Animals post was this, and I responded to it directly:


      What he said there is simply not true, and I was offering a rebuttal to that, and asking for him to provide backing for his statement. I don't think that was being irrational.
      Sorry if I offended, not intentional. Sacred cows are sacred cows :-)

      Ask 100 people (mere mortals, that is) if they like making or receiving cold calls and 99.99 will say no... Hence any newbie will be resistant. Hence, if they just rely on cold calling, they'll fail.

      As I said in my original post on this thread, the JV was the most efficient method of getting prospects. It took maybe 10-12 calls (I can't rightly remember), and suddenly we had more clients than we wanted. Far more effective than the OP's method.

      Could a newbie do a JV? I cannot see why not. If he can't convince a JV partner, then how would he convince a prospect?

      As far as emailing cold prospects, I think any newbie could do it, if they thought it through for five minutes. A B2B email offering a business proposition is not spam. Read the FTC guidelines. (I'm in the UK, however I do have some US clients).

      Not a direct example of cold emailing as other prospecting methods were used: In my first year of my SEM business I planned on getting out. My escape plan was to train others who could take over my clients. One of my trainees was a housewife, no business experience, so sales experience, only ever worked in minimum wage jobs. In her first year she cracked six figures, using my methods... You can't get much more newbie than that...! :-)

      IMHO newbies should try everything they can and find what works for them, both what they're comfortable with and what gets them clients...

      Maybe it's time for another blog post: "Alternatives to cold calling for newbies"... :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author Andrew S
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      The issue I see in this methods debate gets into the numbers of things. Oh you send 100 e-mails and get 20 to 30% response rate. but what is the close rate? If you look at the OP and the guy spends 4 hours a day calling 400 numbers. He was transferring 3 to 4 prospects per session. a poultry 1% sure.. but that took 4 hours, and it isn't the principles 4 hours of time, it is a hired hands.

      How long does it take to compile this list of e-mails that you send out once a day? an hour? 2 hours? So ahalf hour to send the mails.. how long to compile the list? and how long did it take for you to burn through 100 e-mails at a crack to get to the 20 to 30 % mark?

      I personally cold call. I sell a way upper 4 digit service product. I ( meaning myself and some other in the office ) on average make about 600 calls to SELL 20 clients. That means I have a 3.33% close rate. I will tell you right now, I spend more time compiling that list, than it takes to call them. W A Y more time.

      This entire process that I have developed takes a total of 2 to 3 hours a day on average 6 days a week... every week. the actual calling... 3 of those days a month. 90% preparation 10% execution. The Devil is in the details!
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      • Profile picture of the author socialentry
        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        The issue I see in this methods debate gets into the numbers of things. Oh you send 100 e-mails and get 20 to 30% response rate. but what is the close rate? If you look at the OP and the guy spends 4 hours a day calling 400 numbers. He was transferring 3 to 4 prospects per session. a poultry 1% sure.. but that took 4 hours, and it isn't the principles 4 hours of time, it is a hired hands.

        How long does it take to compile this list of e-mails that you send out once a day? an hour? 2 hours? So ahalf hour to send the mails.. how long to compile the list? and how long did it take for you to burn through 100 e-mails at a crack to get to the 20 to 30 % mark?

        I personally cold call. I sell a way upper 4 digit service product. I ( meaning myself and some other in the office ) on average make about 600 calls to SELL 20 clients. That means I have a 3.33% close rate. I will tell you right now, I spend more time compiling that list, than it takes to call them. W A Y more time.

        This entire process that I have developed takes a total of 2 to 3 hours a day on average 6 days a week... every week. the actual calling... 3 of those days a month. 90% preparation 10% execution. The Devil is in the details!
        I was wondering when someone was going to point it out. There's just too many factors to conclusively weight in on one method or the other.
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      • Profile picture of the author Underground
        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        The issue I see in this methods debate gets into the numbers of things. Oh you send 100 e-mails and get 20 to 30% response rate. but what is the close rate? If you look at the OP and the guy spends 4 hours a day calling 400 numbers. He was transferring 3 to 4 prospects per session. a poultry 1% sure.. but that took 4 hours, and it isn't the principles 4 hours of time, it is a hired hands.

        How long does it take to compile this list of e-mails that you send out once a day? an hour? 2 hours? So ahalf hour to send the mails.. how long to compile the list? and how long did it take for you to burn through 100 e-mails at a crack to get to the 20 to 30 % mark?

        I personally cold call. I sell a way upper 4 digit service product. I ( meaning myself and some other in the office ) on average make about 600 calls to SELL 20 clients. That means I have a 3.33% close rate. I will tell you right now, I spend more time compiling that list, than it takes to call them. W A Y more time.

        This entire process that I have developed takes a total of 2 to 3 hours a day on average 6 days a week... every week. the actual calling... 3 of those days a month. 90% preparation 10% execution. The Devil is in the details!

        You're stats don't count. You're not a mere mortal like the rest of us Savidge. Everything you turn your hand to works like a hollywood script would read.

        For the average person, who isn't so fortunate to have been given that blessing, the game of sales flows less smoothly and freely and there are many more barriers.

        The response rates is interest from a qualified prospect. A chance to pitch them. You pass that off as nothing, which is insane.

        This is what I'm talking about.With the phone mere mortals have gate keepers, voicemail that waste your time, people hanging up as soon as they realize your a cold caller, bs from people.

        It's struggle to get your pitch across and find people willing to hear your pitch. There's the same need to create a list between the two.

        Your numbers are vague. How many weeks does it take of calling 2-3 hours a day, 12-18 a week, to get to even pitch 600 people? One week, two weeks. That's just calling.


        Brian Keurzberger's program routinely gets 80-90 response rates. He'd need to send out around 8 hundred, which could be done in an afternoon on autopilot with the right software.

        Then pitch only those responders. Close rates will vary based on how good your are once you have the chance to sell, obviously.

        In a few hours, you could pitch hundreds of people with your opener and see if it makes sense to talk further. Lets take your close rate of 3.33% of closing from those response rates. You'd make your sales 20 odd sales and cut out masses of time ******* about with gate keepers, wrong numbers, voice mails, no answers.

        I guess you do those figures in a less than week right?

        See, in your case where you can get on the phone, immediately and find people within two minutes of talking to them who will give you $5000 a month or whatever it is, it's different. Anyone who has a gift so powerful that it automatically eliminates anyone but finding the decision maker first time around who was just about to purchase what you buy when you called and decided to give you thousands a month after simple pitch, the game is different.

        You need to understand we ain't all so lucky as to have everything perfect.
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        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
          Originally Posted by Underground View Post

          For the average person, who isn't so fortunate to have been given that blessing, the game of sales flows less smoothly and freely and there are many more barriers.
          There is no fortune about it. Its the 21 days of no calls and spending that 2 to 3 hours a day everyday rifling through and pre prequalifying leads. I sell a very specific service. I have some very specific requirements. I have gone in the market space where no one else that I know of is. My target is not a list I can buy.. I have to flush it out. its a lot of work to get there. Again no fortune about it.

          Originally Posted by Underground View Post

          The response rates is interest from a qualified prospect. A chance to pitch them. You pass that off as nothing, which is insane.
          I didn't pass it up at all... im trying to get to an apples to apples comparison. Shadow closed 7% of his leads... and threw an astounding 41% of his total 144 ( guess estimate ) contacts into a development funnel.

          Those numbers.... those numbers are HOLLYWOOD. F ING impressive and you say its not for everyone. ( Numbers get to be a bit funny at times.. its all in how you display them - you think my numbers are pie in the sky... again.. im nothing Shadow is a ROCKSTAR )

          Apples to apples here, and you look at the time involved... I think Shadow beats out my numbers. actually I don't think so I KNOW SO.

          Bottom line here... what is YOUR close rate? what is the real deal meat and potato numbers?

          Originally Posted by Underground View Post

          This is what I'm talking about.With the phone mere mortals have gate keepers, voicemail that waste your time, people hanging up as soon as they realize your a cold caller, bs from people.
          Dude... I didn't give exact numbers but there is 5 of us that call for those 2 to 3 hours for those 2 to 3 days. so my calltime is through the roof. -sorry if I didn't make that clear enough )

          Originally Posted by Underground View Post

          Your numbers are vague. How many weeks does it take of calling 2-3 hours a day, 12-18 a week, to get to even pitch 600 people? One week, two weeks. That's just calling.
          again 30 days in a month. I develop a list over 6 days a week for 3 weeks and a day or so. We then spend 2 to 3 days calling that list

          Originally Posted by Underground View Post

          Brian Keurzberger's program routinely gets 80-90 response rates. He'd need to send out around 8 hundred, which could be done in an afternoon on autopilot with the right software.
          Show me where to get a list of commerce sites that run woocommerce and I would pay a pretty penny. show me a lace to buy a list that suggests those sites are getting somewhere north of 30,000 visitors a month.. Ill pay even more. Show me a list that tells me they spend $ for online commerce marketing, and I would about give a arm or 1st child. The list doesn't exist dude, and I would rather die than outsource the development of such a list to some $2.00 hood

          Originally Posted by Underground View Post

          See, in your case where you can get on the phone, immediately and find people within two minutes of talking to them who will give you $5000 a month or whatever it is, it's different. Anyone who has a gift so powerful that it automatically eliminates anyone but finding the decision maker first time around who was just about to purchase what you buy when you called and decided to give you thousands a month after simple pitch, the game is different.

          You need to understand we ain't all so lucky as to have everything perfect.
          Again.. its the work BEFORE the call that gets me there. you send little e-mails.. and I qualify to the best of my ability with a number of online indicators. For someone that is preaching hey there are other methods.. you sure are quick to try and burn an idea that is not yours!
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          • Profile picture of the author Underground
            Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

            you sure are quick to try and burn an idea that is not yours!

            You're argument is absurd. But newbies can be taken in. If they do they are being mislead by complete and utter bullshit.

            I've posted more than enough proof of these trifling ''little emails'' making sales 100's of millions in revenue, in Brian's case in just 18 months. I already stated I haven't used Brian methods yet, but for my own email approaches in the past with 20-30 response rates I'd close 2-4 out of 10 on average.


            With John, although I may disagree with him on something he genuine is and has actually helped many newbies here. I respect that. And I want them to get the best information that will help them.

            Real, workable info that's proven in the real world and brings them the best possible returns instead of going through the grind that both me and John have to learn what we have. I've found methods in my years of study that beat brute force email by some margin for companies using them. Some I've test myself, but some that people far better than I'll ever be have more than proven. And want others to know about them.

            It's not helping newbies to create these vague, fantastical numbers that bare no resemblance to reality create and impression that they just need a few hours a week to make $80,000 a month.

            So I'm going to call that out. This place should be about sharing the best possible methods to help others be more successful. That what I care about.

            Not pointless debates and arguments.
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            • Profile picture of the author savidge4
              Originally Posted by Underground View Post

              It's not helping newbies to create these vague, fantastical numbers that bare no resemblance to reality create and impression that they just need a few hours a week to make $80,000 a month.
              So I'm going to call that out. This place should be about sharing the best possible methods to help others be more successful. That what I care about.
              You are calling out what? a bunch of hard work and continual day in day out dedication to my process?

              what I do... for the love of pete is by no means for everyone let alone a new person. Its a lot of dang work.

              Think about this for a moment. you are in the UK correct? you are dealing with 1 time zone. move that same operation over to the states and you are potentially dealing with a total of a 6 hour time difference from one end to the other.

              Throw in a few Central and South American clients.. and you are into 8 and 9 time zones.

              Time management... takes on a whole new meaning.

              Part of the attraction in my case towards cold calling is as stated before. the ability to manage and schedule my time doing the activity of "selling". As I moved out of my local market, this right here..in the beginning was a crusher for me. way to many days and nights with no sleep. I spread it far to thin. I have since pulled back my target areas.

              I will be straight up honest.. I HATE cold calling... but I like working. I like being able to have the work to pay my staff. Its my responsibility... my job, to get past what I don't like, and make it happen for my company and my staff.

              Id love to send e-mails... but I cant... it simply is not a viable solution for me, and my circumstances. "For every foot there is a path" you have your foot, and I have mine.
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            • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
              Originally Posted by Underground View Post

              I've posted more than enough proof of these trifling ''little emails'' making sales 100's of millions in revenue, in Brian's case in just 18 months.
              As a client of mine, Bryan said he personally sold between 10 and 20 mill. dollars.

              I give the range because I don't recall the exact number he gave me,
              but it was within that range.

              Just wanted to keep things real here.

              Best,
              Doctor E. Vile
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              • Profile picture of the author Underground
                Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

                As a client of mine, Bryan said he personally sold between 10 and 20 mill. dollars.

                I give the range because I don't recall the exact number he gave me,
                but it was within that range.

                Just wanted to keep things real here.

                Best,
                Doctor E. Vile
                I appreciate you wanting to do that. I expect people do the same. I'm not sure how much he personally made for the company he was employed with this system but wouldn't be surprised with that figure doubt.

                As a consultant though, working in that capacity for big corporates like McDonalds and Microsoft, I have no reason to doubt that stat I heard yesterdays from a Dan Kennedy course of over 100 million in revenue over 18 months from those companies employing his system.

                I never even knew he personally made 10-20 million but that's not a bad figure at all.
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                • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
                  Originally Posted by Underground View Post

                  I appreciate you wanting to do that. I expect people do the same. I'm not sure how much he personally made for the company he was employed with this system but wouldn't be surprised with that figure doubt.

                  As a consultant though, working in that capacity for big corporates like McDonalds and Microsoft, I have no reason to doubt that stat I heard yesterdays from a Dan Kennedy course of over 100 million in revenue over 18 months from those companies employing his system.

                  I never even knew he personally made 10-20 million but that's not a bad figure at all.
                  He sold that number, while on commission.

                  He sold to, not for MacDonald's.

                  Wasn't told he sold to Microsoft.

                  Was told it was MacDonald's, Burger King,
                  P&G, Home Depot, Bank of America, Western Union
                  of the top of my head.

                  Best,
                  Doctor E. Vile
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  • Profile picture of the author Freebiequeen1999
    I have years of telemarket experience, owned a room, trained people...and it is a matter of smile and dial...keep gong....you are looking for someone interested, once you find them...."never let them go" (like the old song LOL>> or at least not until they say NO 3x and then keep them to call back, email back or in local biz, visit)

    You can up your odds greatly by targeting "need"....for me, when I see a biz advertising a lot, running groupons, taking coupons in local flyer mags.....that is the one I target. Not the totally busy/established "I don't need to advertise and I may retire next year" guy....not the totally broke gal who has NO ads out anywhere....not the "elite' who feels ads are beneath them "My decor biz is by word of mouth"...

    go where they are already advertising,

    and or go where they need help (like bad reviews)....

    call at the right time - like no salons on a monday....call restaurants at that slow time between 2-4
    and so forth

    don't sound like a salesperson (yeah I know but don't)

    Don't distress yourself so much - I personally don't think of it as "cold calling">> I think of it as connecting to people who "need" me and my services (whichever one they need)
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Thank you for your consideration Underground, you are an objective person. I know I have been overly passionate in the past at times. We live and learn.
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  • Profile picture of the author Daaria
    But from where did you get the cold numbers to call?
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Daaria View Post

      But from where did you get the cold numbers to call?

      Frankly , you can tear them out of a local phone book if you want to. I know it sounds crude, but that's how I do it. I have generated different kinds of lists, but the good ole fashion yellow pages works as good as any honestly.


      It's quick, handy, no thought, just sit down and dial and swap between industries all you want till you find one that is grooving with you, without a lot of muss, and fuss, or research and tinkering with software...


      I did it a few years ago, as an individual sitting down himself (one of more than a few times of doing that) with 200 numbers, selling web design...and got 5-6 sales out of 200 numbers, of varying sizes, equaling approximately 3 grand in my pocket within about 72 hours or so.


      A couple of them were small 100 dollar sales for various small jobs...


      Here is how it went- An automobile shop wanted me to upload their website for them, that was a small job


      A beauty salon wanted a site.


      An attorney wanted TWO sites, on for his firm and the other for his charity he had started
      another lawyer wanted a site...


      Someone else needed help re-parking their domain name...


      A couple of them closed on the phone, and a couple I had to run out an collect a check from...


      I set all the leads within 5-6 hours or maybe less ( one after noon)... and spent about 2-3 hours running them. Less than ten hours total = 3 grand.


      I have seen this happen to many people since, doing it the same way.

      Business people are business people. You can find them in the yellow pages. Especially if you are looking for the ones who believe in paying for marketing services. The yellow pages are some of the most expensive marketing services out there. That is a target market.


      My pitch was pretty much "Hi Im John, I am a new web designer trying to drum up some work and introduce my services, I was just wondering if you might have any web projects on the back burner that you could use some help with?"


      That was it.


      They answer, and you talk about whatever is on their mind from there. Pretty much a natural conversation.


      No pressure and no sales tactics. Simply letting the process do all the work.


      it would blow you away how easy it is to talk to people when you approach it like that. No5t interested? No problem, have a great day!


      Now go on about your merry business and tell the next person "Im a new web designer, just hoping I could drum up some business. wondering if you might have any web projects on the back burner that I could help you with...".


      Be nice to everyone. Don't be salesy... you will amaze yourself!
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  • Profile picture of the author Underground
    Plus you need to grasp the point that the few hours it takes to send the emails, has you pitching 600 people in those few hours. The response rates are from people where it makes sense for them to speak further. 80-90% willing to take a call from you, your surely going to get a lot of sales if you have a great value prop and reach them at or as close to their tipping point.

    Even if you say you did got to pitch 600 DM's in the space of week for just 12-18 hours work, that still a day more lost productivity, even if you do get through to a qualified dm willing to hear your opener and sales presentation and who's a laydown first time out, within a couple of rings, on the first call.


    You think it's easy to even get responses and generate that amount of leads from a few hours a day? Let alone with cold calling. In direct mail they're happy to get a 1% response rate in a lot of cases.


    Is anyone here other than Savidge making 100 calls in a couple of hours and finding 30-90 of those people willing to hear their pitch and response positively to it to at least be willing to take the next step and see the sales presentation?
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    • Profile picture of the author DABK
      I think he said it takes 10 times as long as you say he said. 10% execution and 90% preparation.

      He said he spends a hell of a lot on getting the right (for him) list.

      So, if he says he calls 12 hours and that's 10% of the time he spends on getting the lists together and calling the list, he's spending 120 hours total.

      Originally Posted by Underground View Post

      Plus you need to grasp the point that the few hours it takes to send the emails, has you pitching 600 people in those few hours. The response rates are from people where it makes sense for them to speak further. 80-90% willing to take a call from you, your surely going to get a lot of sales if you have a great value prop and reach them at or as close to their tipping point.

      Even if you say you did got to pitch 600 DM's in the space of week for just 12-18 hours work, that still a day more lost productivity, even if you do get through to a qualified dm willing to hear your opener and sales presentation and who's a laydown first time out, within a couple of rings, on the first call.


      You think it's easy to even get responses and generate that amount of leads from a few hours a day? Let alone with cold calling. In direct mail they're happy to get a 1% response rate in a lot of cases.


      Is anyone here other than Savidge making 100 calls in a couple of hours and finding 30-90 of those people willing to hear their pitch and response positively to it to at least be willing to take the next step and see the sales presentation?
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      • Profile picture of the author Underground
        Originally Posted by DABK View Post

        I think he said it takes 10 times as long as you say he said. 10% execution and 90% preparation.

        He said he spends a hell of a lot on getting the right (for him) list.

        So, if he says he calls 12 hours and that's 10% of the time he spends on getting the lists together and calling the list, he's spending 120 hours total.
        I'm keeping the prep work separate. What matters here is the execution after the prep stage, the actually contacting people part. That is the area to to compare. You can pitch 800 people in hour with proxies and virtual machines with the very same opener you can on the phone.

        And then be on the phone just to responders who have pencilled in a time to chat to you.

        He would have that point seem insignificant by passing it off as mere response rates that don't mean anything, and only lead to sale conversion stats matter. Who long realistically will it take calling people by phone to find 600 hundred people who'll say ''I may be interested. Tell me more''.

        That completely misses the point. You eliminated the need to spend hours everyday on the phone mostly talking to gate keepers, voice mail or people who aren't interested, to find the minority who are interested enough to buy there and then. A needle in a haystack.


        Versus sending out hundreds of emails in a hour or so and then spending the rest of the time selling to interested people without having to do all the grunt work.

        The OP's method is great in employing someone to do that, because it eliminates all the long, laborious, fruitless work talking to all those people who have no interest.

        I'll be using that method on a genera list I buy that may not be the best, most up-to-date data, so I'm certainly knock knocking it. A phone call and the personal touch in that kind of scenarios is better than blanket cold email.

        But in other areas, where I can better research the list and identify who I want to approach, which is vital in certain areas of my businesses, the email method is far better and more efficient method. I can do in large quantities when I'm able to afford big lists with the data I need.


        It's nothing short of absurd to try to argument that being able to send a cold email in mass in a an hour or so to generate all the response you need to fill your pipeline that week is inferior to one that would takes months of calling to find 600 qualified people willing to hear your full presentation.
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        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
          Originally Posted by Underground View Post

          I'm keeping the prep work separate. What matters here is the execution after the prep stage,
          Again trying to look at things apples to apples. Part of the cold calling process as the OP used it... there is NO prep time.. you are saying look at all the time spent but you are not sharing the time needed to develop your list to send e-mails to. the time it takes to send ( you did say 1/2 hour ) but how long to field the calls in a day? all day?

          There is another factor to look at here as well and that is time management. When I am calling I am calling. I have a schedule. the sales process does not interrupt the remainder of my day and the tasks that I complete the OP the same thing. The 4 hours a day 3 days a week that the cousin was there.. it was scheduled, and the sales activity I bet for the most part was maintained within those 4 hours.

          Your system? well you send an e-mail and spend the day answering the 20 to 40 calls a day. your day is SHOT on the phone. tell me I am wrong.

          Your trying to make YOUR process sound all lean and mean.. and I think we all have been doing this long enough to know.. there is nothing as lean in your method as mine or as Shadows. I have already indicated Shadows is leaner than mine, and looking at the numbers... it is producing better results in the same amount of time.

          Again Apples to apples is all I want to see. you can say what you want.. but until you drop down the real deal numbers... your arguments and points are mute.
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          • Profile picture of the author Underground
            Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

            Again trying to look at things apples to apples. Part of the cold calling process as the OP used it... there is NO prep time.. you are saying look at all the time spent but you are not sharing the time needed to develop your list to send e-mails to. the time it takes to send ( you did say 1/2 hour ) but how long to field the calls in a day? all day?
            You cannot grasp the point can you? You're a strange on indeed Savidge.


            You just make more and more noise. I ain't got time for it. You still can't grasp the idea that this method eliminates all the effort needed to find qualified leads. The dead hours spent talking to people who aren't interested to find the ones that are.

            Because you don't live in the real world Savidge but a fantasy land, otherwise you'd be able to grant that benefit.

            Hypothetically, you could send out hundreds of emails an hour and be swamped with talking to people the rest of the week. And they would be interested people. But realistically you'd want to keep it to a number of qualified responses you could handle.

            That means the 90% of cold calling that is wasted effort talking to people with no interest, voicemail or gatekeepers is eliminated.

            You can't grasp that, and are doing your strange little routine of mocking top methods used by people making hundreds of millions. That's a habit with you.

            So I'm not persisting with this. You continue with all the bluster, waffle and confusing rhetoric, but I'm not getting involved any fiurther. You can't even grasp the point that's being made.

            You claim to be making $120,000 a month in selling CRO. You just said you were calling 2-3 hours a day. Now you have 5 people doing that each, 6 days a week. But seem to think your doing worse than the OP by some margin.

            If you figures are true you are doing better than anyone who has ever graced the Offline Section by some distance.

            Anyway I've had enough.
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  • Profile picture of the author gibsonjoe
    Wow! That's inspiring, I juts learnt 3 things from your story.

    ==> Never Give up
    ==> Stick to the master plan
    ==> Invest Wisely

    Thanks for sharing.
    Signature
    Practice like you've never won before, perform like you have never lost. I create, I take Risks, I Live My Passion. I AM AN ENTREPRENUER. https://imarkguru.com
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  • Profile picture of the author gibsonjoe
    Man, You are really crazy! You are awesome i must say, i could never do that. I would rather invest that money on Google adwords. From your story, i am sure that won't even reap any results compared to what you got.

    You have just inspired me to try any idea, no matter how odd it might look. I learnt three things:

    ==> Always Know that There is nothing wrong in trying
    ==> Be Positive and Have a Plan
    ==> Always stay committed until you get your desired result

    Thanks for sharing
    Signature
    Practice like you've never won before, perform like you have never lost. I create, I take Risks, I Live My Passion. I AM AN ENTREPRENUER. https://imarkguru.com
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Okay Animal...


    There are various ways, and JV's are a great way. Most certainly.


    Ah! It's a great day to be an Internet Marketing Warrior! Is it not?


    Thank you Shadow again, for this awesome thread!
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    All I can say is that I have used lists with higher conversion, that are a lot more complex to generate, but generating a LASER targeted, pre-qualified list does take time and resources... so that is a factor.


    It kind of all evens out really, for the most part.


    The leanest meanest thing I have ever done is just tear a few pages out of the phone book and go to town. That wont work for certain niches, but for general small business it's fine.


    Some things you CAN'T use a generic list for.

    In other words, if you are trying to target ballet dancers for a ballet talent directory or something, then you need to take different measures than just the phone book, but if you are doing attorneys, dentists, antique stores...the usual suspects, then the yellow pages are great!


    It's simple, and it gets the job done, that's all that matters at the days end. If I want two sales that day and I get them, I'm happy. doesn't matter how many leads you burn, they are free lists, there are thousands of listings, and they are full of people who obviously use advertising and marketing.
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  • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
    I personally prefer the churn and burn method because it's easy for anyone to get started, you have a good ROI even with a below average sales person and just by the shear numbers being hit, people are bound to improve naturally.

    Scraping a list, and hammering out the dials can certainly be profitable for pretty much anyone.

    There doesn't have to be an either/or ultimatum here.

    What style fits you better? What style is more ideal for your business?

    I doubt ATT, Charter, Comcast, other companies cold calling in a mega way, are doing vast amounts of research beforehand. They wouldn't be profitable having $10/hr slaves with poor education having the power to investigate, research and target the proper people. However, on the flip side of this, these companies on the corporate sales level ARE doing massive research and using different techniques than the $10/hr call room.

    Churn and burn works for them, and will work for anyone offering lower end services. And yes... even $1,000-2000 web design projects are low end services.

    However... take a look at people that work in business development, or accounts for large advertising firms. They don't churn and burn. They identify, they nurture, they spend a lot of time in the research phase and typically have larger sales and longer sales cycles. Correctly identifying and spending time with the people that CAN make the decision and will give you the time.

    I personally don't like appointments. For me, they're a waste of time. For others, it's a good thing.

    I think Underground mentioned the SOAR selling system, which is a good system. Kind of hard to argue against it, but it's typically used in specialized sales at the corporate level. I guess anyone could have success with it on any level.

    That being said... there's no reason to not adjust a basic cold calling script to include a real value statement, whether you're trying to get an appointment or sell over the phone.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post


    Scraping a list, and hammering out the dials can certainly be profitable for pretty much anyone.
    .



    There is one guy in the WSO section, cant think of his name, that has some pretty killer looking software (scraper) for fiverr/craigslist arbitrage, that looks like it might be the best list generating idea I have ever seen , although I do wonder about how saturated the various markets would be if everyone used it.


    That is about the most amazing list generating idea I have seen for what most newbies in this section would use it for.


    Not sure it would be the best for people who sell specific kinds of packages at higher prices, but I'm pissed at myself for not being the one who thought of the idea!


    For newbies, it seems like an amazing solution for getting started.
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  • Profile picture of the author Underground
    Your system? well you send an e-mail and spend the day answering the 20 to 40 calls a day. your day is SHOT on the phone. tell me I am wrong.
    Let me just address this lunacy before I go.

    What real-world, sane Sales person would not want to send out a batch of emails in the morning and then be fielding calls and emails from interested prospects who know who they are and what they do and want to learn more?

    That's the salesperson's job. Even a busy business owner would not begrudge the time spent responding to qualified fish in their net coming to them wanting to hear more. They know they are talking to interested people who want to hear what they say.

    Your trying to make YOUR process sound all lean and mean.. and I think we all have been doing this long enough to know.. there is nothing as lean in your method as mine or as Shadows. I have already indicated Shadows is leaner than mine, and looking at the numbers... it is producing better results in the same amount of time.
    It's not mine. But you reveal yourself here. I'm not self-aggrandizing here. I'm not taking any credit for Brian Kuerzberger's massive success and highly effective sales system. Nor Aaron Ross.

    You're not even making calls on the phone every day. You should humble yourself and be open to learning and stop getting it backwards by mocking genuine effective and powerful methods because your deluded about your own made up processes.
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  • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
    Statistics: Only as good as the person faking them.

    That's how I feel about the majority of stats mentioned online.

    Truly, the only thing that matters, is your own numbers, no matter what style you choose to use, or what method of marketing you're going to use.
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  • Profile picture of the author Underground
    Hold on I just re-read what you said. He's actually a client of yours Ewan?
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    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      Originally Posted by Underground View Post

      Hold on I just re-read what you said. He's actually a client of yours Ewan?
      Yes he was when he first developed the training.

      Best,
      Doctor E. Vile
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      • Profile picture of the author Underground
        Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

        Yes he was when he first developed the training.

        Best,
        Doctor E. Vile
        Cool. And thanks for pulling me up on that. I just re-listened to the intro segment from Robert Scrobe on the Kennedy course and the figure he stated was 32 million over the last 18 months for companies like McDonald, GE, Western Union etc.

        It was Aaron Ross that did over 100 million.

        I just want people the grasp the point that millions are being made with cold-email methods that are and advance on the old-school churn and burn cold calling and is a better alternative to it in a lot of cases, so neglected to double check the facts but the oversight shouldn't take away from the effectiveness of the method.

        I have a place for churn and burn to. It's better for reaching a wide, general market, rather than pre-selecting. But it's not the only or best way in every case.

        Brian developed it in an arena where churn and burn is just not going to cut it. It's better for when dealing with bigger fish.

        And frankly a lot of newbies would quickly benefit from shifting from mom and pops to targeting higher clients that pay more.
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        • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
          Originally Posted by Underground View Post

          Cool. And thanks for pulling me up on that. I just re-listened to the intro segment from Robert Scrobe on the Kennedy course and the figure he stated was 32 million over the last 18 months for companies like McDonald, GE, Western Union etc.
          Bryan Kreuzberger created his email system after the realization of...

          1 To get the bigger commissions he needed to get bigger deals
          in the 50k plus range for selling e-commerce websites

          2 Cold phone calling was keeping him broke.

          3 He didn't know who the decision maker was in these big companies

          10,000 emails later this is what's inside his training.

          Here's the thing, no 1 method suites each situation.

          That's why clients come to me to figure out what's right for them
          because I am unbiased as I don't have a training for one method.

          One client came to me after he went through Oren Klaff's Pitch Mastery training,
          got personal help from Oren but it was wrong for his situation.
          Oren and team did their best, but didn't have a bigger picture view
          of my client's situation.

          Without knowing the intimate details which can be shared in private and stays confidential,
          it does a dis-service to people who want the most help.

          My point is we help people better by diagnosing the problem
          first before prescribing the cure.

          Best,
          Doctor E. Vile
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  • Profile picture of the author Underground
    This reason this place is so resistant to things like making lesser contacts and more sales must be because of the nature of cold calling. It's one of those habit forming things. You need to just grind your teeth and get calling and keep doing it until it becomes habitual.

    But the trap is getting to comfortable in that habit that anything alternative to it is met with resistance.

    Brian Kuerzberger's method would be the absolute best method for any newbie. Because for some cold-calling it just too much stress. The cold email is even simpler to implement than brute cold calling, there's no call reluctance or nervousness. Less effort for more return. Less stress. Less waste. Less dealing with gatekeepers. More chances to pitch. Speaking to interested people with a better chance to have a sales conversation with them.

    it should be the standard here, in an ideal world.
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    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      Originally Posted by Underground View Post

      This reason this place is so resistant to things like making lesser contacts and more sales must be because of the nature of cold calling. It's one of those habit forming things. You need to just grind your teeth and get calling and keep doing it until it becomes habitual.

      But the trap is getting to comfortable in that habit that anything alternative to it is met with resistance.

      Brian Kuerzberger's method would be the absolute best method for any newbie. Because for some cold-calling it just too much stress. The cold email is even simpler to implement than brute cold calling, there's no call reluctance or nervousness. Less effort for more return. Less stress. Less waste. Less dealing with gatekeepers. More chances to pitch. Speaking to interested people with a better chance to have a sales conversation with them.

      it should be the standard here, in an ideal world.
      I can't really comment on it whether it would be the best or not.. I've never followed the gurus much.
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      • Profile picture of the author Underground
        Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

        I can't really comment on it whether it would be the best or not.. I've never followed the gurus much.
        I've probably made it look like I'm a victim of the marketing and hype from Guru's, because I constantly reference them.

        That's necessary though. I have to mention where the methods I'm talking about come from and how they've been proven.

        What's my authority? Who's going to give a shit what I personally think.

        I have no time for gurus. Or fall for the authority positioning play. I care about evidence and results from stuff.

        I have time for Ryan Deiss because he has the evidence and has proven his methods. Same with Kennedy. But I don't fall for the hero worship stuff just because someone has a big name who has used marketing and positioning to become a big name. Same with Aaron Ross and Brian Keurzberger. They have proven and exemplify the effectiveness of what they preach.

        I'm not knocking people who prefer churn and burn. I pointed why I think there is a massive resistance in the Offline Section to alternative methods.

        I don't discount other methods or limit myself to one. I don't think its helpful to others in general to do that.
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        • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
          Originally Posted by Underground View Post

          I've probably made it look like I'm a victim of the marketing and hype from Guru's, because I constantly reference them.

          That's necessary though. I have to mention where the methods I'm talking about come from and how they've been proven.

          What's my authority? Who's going to give a shit what I personally think.

          I have no time for gurus. Or fall for the authority positioning play. I care about evidence and results from stuff.

          I have time for Ryan Deiss because he has the evidence and has proven his methods. Same with Kennedy. But I don't fall for the hero worship stuff just because someone has a big name who has used marketing and positioning to become a big name. Same with Aaron Ross and Brian Keurzberger. They have proven and exemplify the effectiveness of what they preach.

          I'm not knocking people who prefer churn and burn. I pointed why I think there is a massive resistance in the Offline Section to alternative methods.

          I don't discount other methods or limit myself to one. I don't think its helpful to others in general to do that.
          Just so you know, not sure if you took it the wrong way or not, I didn't imply you were a victim of hype. Just saying I've never really followed them, but that is probably why.

          I've learned to give certain things a try, I'm not against trying new things, but the reason why I don't know where these methods come from or which guru or big name is behind something is because I've realized not everything they preach translates to me and my situation.

          I also realize that most of them make more teaching, than doing.

          Ryan Deiss though, I really like some of his stuff.
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          • Profile picture of the author Underground
            Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

            Just so you know, not sure if you took it the wrong way or not, I didn't imply you were a victim of hype. Just saying I've never really followed them, but that is probably why.

            I've learned to give certain things a try, I'm not against trying new things, but the reason why I don't know where these methods come from or which guru or big name is behind something is because I've realized not everything they preach translates to me and my situation.

            I also realize that most of them make more teaching, than doing.

            Ryan Deiss though, I really like some of his stuff.

            I'm adverse to most in the IM world. Repulsed by them and are aware of the tricks.

            Kennedy and Deiss are one of the only to from the IM world I really have any time for. Info sellers that actually complete practise what they preach in everything they do and teach others how they do it. Very, very rare.
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            • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
              Further to my point about no one method is right
              for each situation...

              Just because I have
              Puma and N.Z's leading
              beer brewer charity
              hair salon chain
              building and hardware chain
              cafe chain
              mobile coffee chain
              gold buyer chain
              adult store chain
              dental chain
              fruit smoothie chain
              fruit and vege chain
              t shirt chain

              plus lot's of single stores,

              doesn't have me saying how we got them as clients
              is the right way... because I don't know your situation.

              That's a lesson in itself, when opinions are divided
              on a market, you can be the unbiased voice and diagnose
              each situation to come up with the right direction for your clients.

              Best,
              Doctor E. Vile
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              • Profile picture of the author Underground
                Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

                Further to my point about no one method is right
                for each situation...

                Just because I have
                Puma and N.Z's leading
                beer brewer charity
                hair salon chain
                building and hardware chain
                cafe chain
                mobile coffee chain
                gold buyer chain
                adult store chain
                dental chain
                fruit smoothie chain
                fruit and vege chain
                t shirt chain

                plus lot's of single stores,

                doesn't have me saying how we got them as clients
                is the right way... because I don't know your situation.

                That's a lesson in itself, when opinions are divided
                on a market, you can be the unbiased voice and diagnose
                each situation to come up with the right direction for your clients.

                Best,
                Doctor E. Vile
                That's an impressive list. How did you get such a prestigious client list like that Ewan, if you don't mind sharing?

                On a side note I'd like to point out I'm not arguing or trying to steer anyone away from stuff in the OP, or downplay that for another method. This is a great method for some people who are great at selling and know their product inside out to free them up from the lead gen side so they can focus on closing deals.

                Very simple and straight-forward to implement with a great ROI generated for the OP.

                I wouldn't try to dissuade anyone from following the OP's example and approach.
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                • Profile picture of the author shadow92
                  I just wanted to thank everyone that's contributed to this thread. I was hesitant to post this because I didn't want it to turn into a brawl between experienced marketers. I appreciate everyone being respectful to others beliefs.

                  Frankly, I'm very busy and had no idea that the thread would take off like this. There's a lot that I want to respond to on this thread but I just don't have the time right now. I'm reading all the posts as they come and all I can say is THIS is what the forum should be. Down and dirty marketing.

                  Thank you all for your contributions. I'm sure this will inspire hundreds, if not thousands.
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                • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
                  Originally Posted by Underground View Post

                  That's an impressive list. How did you get such a prestigious client list like that Ewan, if you don't mind sharing?
                  Cold called.

                  On a number of occasions I've given the word by word script used
                  for the gatekeeper and the decision maker.

                  I've also offered for people to listen in as I make
                  the calls. Plenty of noise but nobody came through.

                  Guess free isn't valued.

                  Best,
                  Doctor E. Vile
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                  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
                    Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post


                    Guess free isn't valued.

                    Best,
                    Doctor E. Vile


                    I have always valued your free posts Ewan. You help a lot of people with your free input, myself included. I'm sure I'm not the only one who appreciates it.
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                  • Profile picture of the author longrobnc
                    Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

                    Cold called.

                    On a number of occasions I've given the word by word script used
                    for the gatekeeper and the decision maker.

                    I've also offered for people to listen in as I make
                    the calls. Plenty of noise but nobody came through.

                    Guess free isn't valued.

                    Best,
                    Doctor E. Vile
                    Ewen,

                    Some people just don't have the desire or follow through. I have 1,000 business customers and many of them are some of the largest retailers in the world. My wife and I obtained these customers by pounding the hell out of the phones. No script and no call counting. We just made calls with the intent of letting people know that we exist and what we had to offer. If we didn't have anything else to do during a business day, we just made calls. We stunk in the beginning and the delivery got better with time.

                    I have hired people over and over that just would not pull the trigger, no matter the compensation. I generally read your post and I think that there is plenty of value. Keep it coming.
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                    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
                      Originally Posted by longrobnc View Post

                      I have 1,000 business customers and many of them are some of the largest retailers in the world. My wife and I obtained these customers by pounding the hell out of the phones. No script and no call counting. We just made calls with the intent of letting people know that we exist and what we had to offer. If we didn't have anything else to do during a business day, we just made calls. We stunk in the beginning and the delivery got better with time.
                      .

                      Wow! Very inspiring. Thank you. That's determination! You guys were on FIRE!
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                    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
                      Originally Posted by longrobnc View Post

                      Ewen,

                      Some people just don't have the desire or follow through. I have 1,000 business customers and many of them are some of the largest retailers in the world. My wife and I obtained these customers by pounding the hell out of the phones. No script and no call counting. We just made calls with the intent of letting people know that we exist and what we had to offer.
                      .
                      You know, it just might be the right time for me to start a new venture
                      and hit the phones, just for the hell of it.

                      This time grab some American customers with a product/service they haven't seen before.

                      You are never more alive than when you are neck deep
                      hustling.

                      Best,
                      Doctor E. Vile
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                      • Profile picture of the author CLSVentures
                        Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

                        You know, it just might be the right time for me to start a new venture
                        and hit the phones, just for the hell of it.

                        This time grab some American customers with a product/service they haven't seen before.

                        You are never more alive than when you are neck deep
                        hustling.

                        Best,
                        Doctor E. Vile
                        Amen brother. Was just remarking that to my wife. Just got off a conf call with CEO of a $400mil company and co-founder of a $10mil startup on a JV that looks like it's going to bloom. Nothing like that rush!

                        All from dead-cold contacts.You just can't beat the thrill of "the chase".
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                  • Profile picture of the author Underground
                    Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

                    Cold called.

                    On a number of occasions I've given the word by word script used
                    for the gatekeeper and the decision maker.

                    I've also offered for people to listen in as I make
                    the calls. Plenty of noise but nobody came through.

                    Guess free isn't valued.

                    Best,
                    Doctor E. Vile
                    Thanks for sharing.

                    It's pretty common for non-experts or novice to mid-level to not be able to recognize great opportunities just because they don't have the knowledge to recognize or discern great info.

                    It's funny, though, how most seem to make noises as if the can, but when it comes to crunch time that's when the reveal it was all lip-service and most didn't truly grasp the value.

                    Disappointing when that happens.

                    If you ever make that offer again, I hope I catch it. And plans to, no that you're thinking of getting into action on a new project?
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Underground View Post


      Brian Kuerzberger's method would be the absolute best method for any newbie. Because for some cold-calling it just too much stress.

      So Underground, are you saying, just to be clear, that you use this and it works for you? If you say that, then I am going to put it on the front burner and check it out asap, if you are not saying that you use it and it works for you to generate clients, you still seem pretty passionate about it and I suppose there is a reason, so I will still check it out, but just maybe put it on the back burner.
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      • Profile picture of the author Underground
        Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

        So Underground, are you saying, just to be clear, that you use this and it works for you? If you say that, then I am going to put it on the front burner and check it out asap, if you are not saying that you use it and it works for you to generate clients, you still seem pretty passionate about it and I suppose there is a reason, so I will still check it out, but just maybe put it on the back burner.
        I've been through the course. I have enough experience to see how it's effective. And I know it's best use is in targeting corporate or medium size companies. I have many different products and prices points I need to sell in tandem. And need to combine different methods to be able to most effectively do that.

        I have lists where I'm simply inviting people to join up to something free and that's to build up my email list to sell other products later. For that I will be hiring people just to phone that list.

        I have other products that are higher end and aimed at more corporate markets that I have to carefully preselect to fit a certain criteria and standard, and I'm just finalizing them ready to get selling and I'll be using Kuerzbergers method for that because churn and burn on a untargeted list is just not the right approach for that.

        I will report back on my experiences and figures once I've got enough data in.

        I have used similar method but not a comprehensive system for dealing with first response, non-responders, follows ups, the whole works.

        And his system provided a complete system, beyond just one email. He actually gives away his first opening email here for free. Breakthrough Email | The #1 Resource for Effective Emailing.

        But the paid course goes into much more detail. But its solid and comprehensive and based on sound logic.
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  • Profile picture of the author Underground
    Shame you deleted that post John. This thread has ended up detracting from the message of the thread, which is one every newbie should grasp in essence regardless of the difference variations to achieve the same thing.

    That is to get a decent, consistent, simple and workable system of contacting businesses and seeing if they interested in what you offer.

    Hiring someone to do that like the OP can pay massive dividends. So the point is work out your approach, one that's right for what you offer and just get going and be consistent.

    For all the debate in this thread, it all comes down to the above.
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  • Shadow's is an awesome story because it reminds everyone that sometimes all we need to do is go back to basics. What is simple works best. No need to make things hard for yourself.
    Signature

    --------------------------
    web design & development, SEO, client support, online marketing
    Everest Online Marketing

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    • Profile picture of the author shadow92
      Originally Posted by EverestOnlineMarketing View Post

      Shadow's is an awesome story because it reminds everyone that sometimes all we need to do is go back to basics. What is simple works best. No need to make things hard for yourself.

      Glad you liked it. However simplicity typically does NOT work best (as you can see from the 2 pages of debate) And they're all right...there are MUCH better ways to approach cold calling and ...marketing in general besides K.I.S.S methods.

      HOWEVER the point of the thread is to show people that it DOES work and can be deemed very profitable.

      Reality is...I hired a random, put him in front of a phone, and made more money in 3 months than the average american does in a year.

      That's the point of the thread.
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  • Profile picture of the author digichik
    Wow, finally a really interesting thread. It seems like it's been years since we've had a thread this lively. "Makin' me pine for the good ol' days of the offline forum."


    My personal opinion, based on experience, is that sitting down, picking up the phone and calling businesses is the fastest and most cost effective way to generate new business as a newbie with no money.


    Sure, there are other more sophisticated ways to prospect and get sales, but if your back is against the wall, find yourself a simple phone script and get to dialing. Go for that low hanging fruit and get paid. Then you will earn the money you need to buy $500 email courses, by people like Bryan Kreuzberger. Yes, his emailing method is sound, but it's designed for targeting higher value clients, that someone with little or no sales experience will have difficulty dealing with.


    All of the various sales methods work, and to be successful one needs to know how to effectively implement all of them -- cold calling, email, direct mail, networking, face-to-face, etc. Use the right method for the right market.



    However, of all of the various methods, the lowest cost, fastest way to generate new business for newbies is cold calling. Tools needed -- a phone, a list(phonebook, free list from Reference USA from the library), pen and paper, a simple phone script, and the heart & dedication to pick up the phone and have a conversation with people.


    Just figure it like this, a horrible rate of one sale per week at $1200.00, is $4800.00/mo. While this is not a whole lot of money, it's realistic for someone just aiming for the "low hanging fruit", just starting out. It sure beats flipping burgers or working retail for minimum wage.
    Signature



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    • Profile picture of the author Underground
      Originally Posted by digichik View Post

      Wow, finally a really interesting thread. It seems like it's been years since we've had a thread this lively. "Makin' me pine for the good ol' days of the offline forum."


      My personal opinion, based on experience, is that sitting down, picking up the phone and calling businesses is the fastest and most cost effective way to generate new business as a newbie with no money.


      Sure, there are other more sophisticated ways to prospect and get sales, but if your back is against the wall, find yourself a simple phone script and get to dialing. Go for that low hanging fruit and get paid. Then you will earn the money you need to buy $500 email courses, by people like Bryan Kreuzberger. Yes, his emailing method is sound, but it's designed for targeting higher value clients, that someone with little or no sales experience will have difficulty dealing with.


      All of the various sales methods work, and to be successful one needs to know how to effectively implement all of them -- cold calling, email, direct mail, networking, face-to-face, etc. Use the right method for the right market.



      However, of all of the various methods, the lowest cost, fastest way to generate new business for newbies is cold calling. Tools needed -- a phone, a list(phonebook, free list from Reference USA from the library), pen and paper, a simple phone script, and the heart & dedication to pick up the phone and have a conversation with people.


      Just figure it like this, a horrible rate of one sale per week at $1200.00, is $4800.00/mo. While this is not a whole lot of money, it's realistic for someone just aiming for the "low hanging fruit", just starting out. It sure beats flipping burgers or working retail for minimum wage.
      I can see the logic in what you are saying. For many of the services people sell here, just a general business list will do. Their services are something most businesses do need, like websites.

      In that scenario, by all mean rip pages out of the yellow pages and dial when starting out and needing cash flow.

      It was maybe the wrong thread to start a debate on methods, because of the method in the OP being sound and proven it would look like it was being challenged or detracted from. Glad to see most people praising it and getting something out of it, spammers aside.

      But the reason I put forth and defended alternative methods as just as valid and in some cases far more effective is because mine and some other peoples services are far more specialized and certain profile needs to found and preselected.

      For me, I'm selling space in a magazine. Those spaces include sponsored featured (basically editorials that are paid for). I need to find business in certain location with great content that can be used as an editorial feature. I need to sell 12-24 two to four page editorial spots. At least one editorial spot to a business in one of these categories: Property, Careers, Events, Education, Business, Bars, Clubs, Restaurants, Legal, Business, Home and Garden, Fashion.

      Then I have around 14-28 full page ads spots to fill.

      Around 3 interview pieces. 12 expert view pieces. 16 voucher spots. And up to 300 event listing features.

      So about 6 different prices points, aimed at 6 different types of content, across 12 categories, most all of them apart from the ad space, is right only for a certain type of business I need to identify before contact.


      My circumstances dictate I don't call blind. That I employ as many different outbound strategies as possible. Phone. Email. Leaflet drops. Face to face. JV's, referrals.


      But my point is this. There are two fundamental approaches. A blanket outbound campaign on a general list, or pre-targeting, pre-selecting, pre-call research of select groups of people.

      In some cases, where the product or service being sold dictates it, just getting on the phone and finding the low hanging is enough. Others, who are selling to more niche groups need a different method.


      I was inaccurate in saying or giving the impression Keurzbergers approach is only suited to middle to corporate business.

      More accurately, it's best geared towards any situation where you have specific targets you need to identify. As long as their is more than 5 employees in a company.

      Now there is a debate to be had about whether pre-call research and identify low hanging fruit (people at an obvious tipping point), and having a most custom pitch that is more personalized would lead to more sales in less time and less calls than a blanket one, but it's not the place here to discuss that.

      Finally, it's a good point you made about Kuerzberger's paid stuff.

      I said earlier that I thought it should be the default method of first contact here. I was talking about his free opening email he gives away. A broke newbie could use that and not have to invest in the course.

      If people can afford the investment of hiring someone to do the phone lead gen and supply leads to a closer, like in the OP, I would recommend that in a lot of cases.


      For a broke newbie who can't I think they owe it to themselves to test that method side by side. Gather a list of 100 people, and go on linkedin and find 4 other people in that company in important positions, or just a scrape a site for emails, and send the free email Kuerzberger gives away against just phoning 100 people. I'd get Mike Brook's Complete book of scripts to put a good script together to deal with responses.

      Probably about equal in that scenario because of the time involved with, but it would a good test to see how many people you get to pitch out of every 100 people and what yields better results.

      For me, it's important to get the most impact out of everything I do, in the shortest most efficient way possible, given my situation, so I can see how it's only me that could be concerned with optimising the process.

      And I'm not in any way saying people should not just pick up the phone and go for the low hanging fruit, and that that might be and probably is the best solution in a lot of cases.

      But as others have pointed out, it's not an either or proposition.

      For many who just aren't cut out for the phone and who's fear makes the calls awkward and unproductive and can't quite get the phone thing down like others can, who can't yet afford to hire someone, and who is ok with dealing with callbacks and warm calls, the free email approach might be the best option to begin with and can still have them getting that low hanging fruit.
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      • Profile picture of the author ronr
        That would be an interesting test

        Originally Posted by Underground View Post


        For a broke newbie who can't I think they owe it to themselves to test that method side by side. Gather a list of 100 people, and go on linkedin and find 4 other people in that company in important positions, or just a scrape a site for emails, and send the free email Kuerzberger gives away against just phoning 100 people. I'd get Mike Brook's Complete book of scripts to put a good script together to deal with responses.

        Probably about equal in that scenario because of the time involved with, but it would a good test to see how many people you get to pitch out of every 100 people and what yields better results..
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        • Profile picture of the author longrobnc
          I'm looking at the dial numbers in this thread and I'm baffled. I hired a lady 6 weeks ago to cold call home builders. I guaranteed her $45k a year with the ability to make a nice income above and beyond the base. I gave her a very short pitch asking if they are accepting bids. I put together a list in excel from local associations.

          My minimum expectation for her was 100 dials per day. She averages about 55 calls in 8 hours. She is telling me that 100 isn't possible. When I'm checking her results, it's 75% voice mails. I'm not asking her to do anything but make these calls. Looks like I'm set up poorly or I hired the wrong person. I spent a month getting her prepared to make these calls.

          I think this method fails for some because people just don't pick up the phone and dial. I've tried paying people $12 an hour plus incentives and now the last 2 people with salaries $52k and $45k respectively. None of them make the calls necessary for me to bother keeping them on my payroll. I was advised to pay a better guarantee and I would get a higher quality candidate. That is NOT the case.
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          • Profile picture of the author John Durham
            Originally Posted by longrobnc View Post


            My minimum expectation for her was 100 dials per day. She averages about 55 calls in 8 hours. She is telling me that 100 isn't possible. When I'm checking her results, it's 75% voice mails. I'm not asking her to do anything but make these calls. Looks like I'm set up poorly or I hired the wrong person. I spent a month getting her prepared to make these calls.

            I think this method fails for some because people just don't pick up the phone and dial.

            I do understand why most contractors wouldn't be in the office a lot, that's pretty common, but that also means that she should even more easily be clearing 100 dials per HOUR.


            Very seriously. That is usually the goal of a caller in an office, and like shadow said, they usually can do at least 80.


            Those numbers REALLY don't add up, especially if 75% aren't answering. It only takes 5 seconds to dial a number, and there isn't any reason to have more five seconds between dials on average.


            That's crazy.
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          • Profile picture of the author shadow92
            Originally Posted by longrobnc View Post

            I'm looking at the dial numbers in this thread and I'm baffled. I hired a lady 6 weeks ago to cold call home builders. I guaranteed her $45k a year with the ability to make a nice income above and beyond the base. I gave her a very short pitch asking if they are accepting bids. I put together a list in excel from local associations.

            My minimum expectation for her was 100 dials per day. She averages about 55 calls in 8 hours. She is telling me that 100 isn't possible. When I'm checking her results, it's 75% voice mails. I'm not asking her to do anything but make these calls. Looks like I'm set up poorly or I hired the wrong person. I spent a month getting her prepared to make these calls.

            I think this method fails for some because people just don't pick up the phone and dial. I've tried paying people $12 an hour plus incentives and now the last 2 people with salaries $52k and $45k respectively. None of them make the calls necessary for me to bother keeping them on my payroll. I was advised to pay a better guarantee and I would get a higher quality candidate. That is NOT the case.
            Fire her.

            She is, and never will be an asset to you.

            Business is business. Her performance and attitude is unacceptable.

            EDIT: Also...I strongly disagree with your last statement. You're clearly being walked all over. I don't mean this in an offensive manner but you need to tighten up. For one....52K/yr salary is absurd to pay someone banging out the phones all day. Maybe I'm wrong in thinking that these people should only be paid min. wage or a dollar or two more. But $52k/yr? jesus christ man...my brother just went through 4 years of nursing school, spent over $30k on education, became a nurse and doesn't even make $50k/yr. You're paying someone that to just CALL? That's a real problem. Are you not supervising these people? If I had someone pulling that shit they'd be gone in the first few days. There's a gap in your system somewhere, that's what's causing your problem.

            Do you think mcdonalds has trouble making people flip burgers all day for min wage? Do you think contractors have a problem getting college kids to work all day, doing the shit work for min wage? Pizza hut? Subway? Car washes? Lawn services?

            All these people working at these places would probably love to be locked up in your nice office with the AC cranking just calling leads.

            I hate to make such a rash comment here but I think your problem is YOU. I don't think you're very strict, and I don't think you are laying out the details upfront.

            These "employees" of yours are walking all over you and taking your money.

            Don't take this personal, I'm looking out for YOU
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            • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
              Originally Posted by shadow92 View Post

              Fire her.

              She is, and never will be an asset to you.

              Business is business. Her performance and attitude is unacceptable.

              EDIT: Also...I strongly disagree with your last statement. You're clearly being walked all over. I don't mean this in an offensive manner but you need to tighten up. For one....52K/yr salary is absurd to pay someone banging out the phones all day. Maybe I'm wrong in thinking that these people should only be paid min. wage or a dollar or two more. But $52k/yr? jesus christ man...my brother just went through 4 years of nursing school, spent over $30k on education, became a nurse and doesn't even make $50k/yr. You're paying someone that to just CALL? That's a real problem. Are you not supervising these people? If I had someone pulling that shit they'd be gone in the first few days. There's a gap in your system somewhere, that's what's causing your problem.

              Do you think mcdonalds has trouble making people flip burgers all day for min wage? Do you think contractors have a problem getting college kids to work all day, doing the shit work for min wage? Pizza hut? Subway? Car washes? Lawn services?

              All these people working at these places would probably love to be locked up in your nice office with the AC cranking just calling leads.

              I hate to make such a rash comment here but I think your problem is YOU. I don't think you're very strict, and I don't think you are laying out the details upfront.

              These "employees" of yours are walking all over you and taking your money.

              Don't take this personal, I'm looking out for YOU
              The above is more important then 80% of the other stuff mentioned in this thread.

              ... and OP - thanks for the shout out. I have lost count of the amount of emails
              and skypes I have received pointing to this thread.
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            • Profile picture of the author longrobnc
              Originally Posted by shadow92 View Post

              Fire her.

              She is, and never will be an asset to you.

              Business is business. Her performance and attitude is unacceptable.

              EDIT: Also...I strongly disagree with your last statement. You're clearly being walked all over. I don't mean this in an offensive manner but you need to tighten up. For one....52K/yr salary is absurd to pay someone banging out the phones all day. Maybe I'm wrong in thinking that these people should only be paid min. wage or a dollar or two more. But $52k/yr? jesus christ man...my brother just went through 4 years of nursing school, spent over $30k on education, became a nurse and doesn't even make $50k/yr. You're paying someone that to just CALL? That's a real problem. Are you not supervising these people? If I had someone pulling that shit they'd be gone in the first few days. There's a gap in your system somewhere, that's what's causing your problem.

              Do you think mcdonalds has trouble making people flip burgers all day for min wage? Do you think contractors have a problem getting college kids to work all day, doing the shit work for min wage? Pizza hut? Subway? Car washes? Lawn services?

              All these people working at these places would probably love to be locked up in your nice office with the AC cranking just calling leads.

              I hate to make such a rash comment here but I think your problem is YOU. I don't think you're very strict, and I don't think you are laying out the details upfront.

              These "employees" of yours are walking all over you and taking your money.

              Don't take this personal, I'm looking out for YOU
              Well, The obvious problem is me. I hired her and I trained her. It's ultimately my responsibility. If she was doing great, I would be busting my arm patting myself on the back. I don't want to fire her. I can't. She's a single mother that quit a job to join us. I'm thinking of putting her on a dialer. That may fix the issue. I'm not giving up so soon.

              Thanks very much for the reply.
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              • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
                Originally Posted by longrobnc View Post

                Well, The obvious problem is me. I hired her and I trained her. It's ultimately my responsibility. If she was doing great, I would be busting my arm patting myself on the back. I don't want to fire her. I can't. She's a single mother that quit a job to join us. I'm thinking of putting her on a dialer. That may fix the issue. I'm not giving up so soon.

                Thanks very much for the reply.
                Your correct. Wish more people understood that.

                Now - you still have to fix it. Sometimes you cant and you have to fire.

                When I first started firing people - it broke my heart. I literally did everything
                possible NOT to fire some one.

                Those days are long gone. Now I know it's all a numbers game.
                Numbers say when its time to let some one go - or rarely attempt to retrain them.

                Here is something for you to think about:

                How long does it take to leave a message on a answering machine?
                How long does it take to just hang up.

                If its one minute per leaving a message - then that's 60 calls per hour - min
                That needs to be reaffirmed in training.

                A dialer will hep - IF and only IF - the rep is not lazy.
                Some people - A LOT of people feel X amount of calls a day is a LOT

                your job is to give her the mentality if that's all she is doing
                she is not doing her job properly.
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          • Profile picture of the author DABK
            First time I cold call, I got the list in front of me at 8:55AM and dialed, got through 4 numbers, took a break to eat some yogurt, called a few more numbers, re-arranged the cell and row width on my excell list, played a couple of Mah Jong games (don't try: addictive) for 10 minutes or so, called a few more numbers, watched an episode of Psych, called a few more numbers, took an early lunch break, came back, called a few more numbers, and decided I did enough for my first cold calling day. It was 2:15 or so in the afternoon.

            I had gone through 226 numbers, talked to a few polite-but-not-interested, a bunch of polite gatekeeprs or employees (employees would say, No, he/she is not here. He/She will be here after 3. Call back then. Gatekeepers were more like: He/She is not available. What is this in regards to?), 1 rude-extremly-rue-not-interested, 3 maybes and 1 yes. The yes did not work out, one of the maybes ended up putting $6,000 in my bank account over 3 months.

            I didn't time them, but it felt like most of the calls lasted 15 seconds.

            I had no script. I'm an extreme introvert. I hate cold calling.

            I'm coming to work for you. If you're a fair man, you're going to pay me $225,000 a year to do what I did my first time I cold called. And a bonus of $450,000 to do all I can (I'm better now at it.).

            You fair? Do I get the job?


            Originally Posted by longrobnc View Post

            I'm looking at the dial numbers in this thread and I'm baffled. I hired a lady 6 weeks ago to cold call home builders. I guaranteed her $45k a year with the ability to make a nice income above and beyond the base. I gave her a very short pitch asking if they are accepting bids. I put together a list in excel from local associations.

            My minimum expectation for her was 100 dials per day. She averages about 55 calls in 8 hours. She is telling me that 100 isn't possible. When I'm checking her results, it's 75% voice mails. I'm not asking her to do anything but make these calls. Looks like I'm set up poorly or I hired the wrong person. I spent a month getting her prepared to make these calls.

            I think this method fails for some because people just don't pick up the phone and dial. I've tried paying people $12 an hour plus incentives and now the last 2 people with salaries $52k and $45k respectively. None of them make the calls necessary for me to bother keeping them on my payroll. I was advised to pay a better guarantee and I would get a higher quality candidate. That is NOT the case.
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            • Profile picture of the author longrobnc
              Originally Posted by DABK View Post

              First time I cold call, I got the list in front of me at 8:55AM and dialed, got through 4 numbers, took a break to eat some yogurt, called a few more numbers, re-arranged the cell and row width on my excell list, played a couple of Mah Jong games (don't try: addictive) for 10 minutes or so, called a few more numbers, watched an episode of Psych, called a few more numbers, took an early lunch break, came back, called a few more numbers, and decided I did enough for my first cold calling day. It was 2:15 or so in the afternoon.

              I had gone through 226 numbers, talked to a few polite-but-not-interested, a bunch of polite gatekeeprs or employees (employees would say, No, he/she is not here. He/She will be here after 3. Call back then. Gatekeepers were more like: He/She is not available. What is this in regards to?), 1 rude-extremly-rue-not-interested, 3 maybes and 1 yes. The yes did not work out, one of the maybes ended up putting $6,000 in my bank account over 3 months.

              I didn't time them, but it felt like most of the calls lasted 15 seconds.

              I had no script. I'm an extreme introvert. I hate cold calling.

              I'm coming to work for you. If you're a fair man, you're going to pay me $225,000 a year to do what I did my first time I cold called. And a bonus of $450,000 to do all I can (I'm better now at it.).

              You fair? Do I get the job?
              I am a fair guy, but I'm not following the logic. I'm paying her a salary. I'm paying for her time, not by the call. It's the same pay regardless of the call count unless you make sales.
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              • Profile picture of the author DABK
                S'okay about my logic.

                Perhaps you should be paying her a smaller amount as wages and a hefty commission for reaching certain benchmarks, like 100 calls a day, 200 calls a day. Or appointments set or... whatever works in your business.

                If she makes you money, she makes money. That kind of thing.

                Originally Posted by longrobnc View Post

                I am a fair guy, but I'm not following the logic. I'm paying her a salary. I'm paying for her time, not by the call. It's the same pay regardless of the call count unless you make sales.
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          • Profile picture of the author Jeremiah Walsh
            Originally Posted by longrobnc View Post

            I'm looking at the dial numbers in this thread and I'm baffled. I hired a lady 6 weeks ago to cold call home builders. I guaranteed her $45k a year with the ability to make a nice income above and beyond the base. I gave her a very short pitch asking if they are accepting bids. I put together a list in excel from local associations.

            My minimum expectation for her was 100 dials per day. She averages about 55 calls in 8 hours. She is telling me that 100 isn't possible. When I'm checking her results, it's 75% voice mails. I'm not asking her to do anything but make these calls. Looks like I'm set up poorly or I hired the wrong person. I spent a month getting her prepared to make these calls.

            I think this method fails for some because people just don't pick up the phone and dial. I've tried paying people $12 an hour plus incentives and now the last 2 people with salaries $52k and $45k respectively. None of them make the calls necessary for me to bother keeping them on my payroll. I was advised to pay a better guarantee and I would get a higher quality candidate. That is NOT the case.
            There seems to be a serious disconnect here. The #1 reason why people fail at cold calling is due to apprehension. She is most likely afraid of the phone and gets caught in "busy work" instead of actually making the calls.

            If she is taking a few minutes looking up a contact and seeing what they are about you will waste a lot of time. For example, an 8 hour day has 480 minutes. Divide that by 5 minutes of call prep and you got 80 calls for the day.

            Take away bathroom/coffee breaks and such means that you will be somewhere around where you are right now.

            Have you tried to segment her call lists into verticals so she can have a message that speaks to that vertical specifically. That should remove the pre-call research.

            Over 100 very targeted quality calls is very possible. I do it 3 days a week and follow a specific cadence for it.
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            • Profile picture of the author longrobnc
              Originally Posted by Jeremiah Walsh View Post

              There seems to be a serious disconnect here. The #1 reason why people fail at cold calling is due to apprehension. She is most likely afraid of the phone and gets caught in "busy work" instead of actually making the calls.

              If she is taking a few minutes looking up a contact and seeing what they are about you will waste a lot of time. For example, an 8 hour day has 480 minutes. Divide that by 5 minutes of call prep and you got 80 calls for the day.

              Take away bathroom/coffee breaks and such means that you will be somewhere around where you are right now.

              Have you tried to segment her call lists into verticals so she can have a message that speaks to that vertical specifically. That should remove the pre-call research.

              Over 100 very targeted quality calls is very possible. I do it 3 days a week and follow a specific cadence for it.

              All of the calls are made to one market segment, for one product. She's using an excel sheet. She is supposed to go down the list and color code the contacts by outcome. At the end of the day, she goes back and shoots out emails to some of the contacts. I've asked her not to research the companies. She will find out what she needs to know while on the calls.

              I've asked her to make all 100 calls in 2 segments. 2 hours in the morning, 2 hours in the afternoon. Use the rest of the time to send email follow ups and to send information to our estimator for those prospects that were interested. The estimator builds the quotes and emails them out. She would also need time to make follow up calls to quotes that we have sent out. Right now, it's usually 1 or 2 a day and she just started so that work load is low.

              I went back and checked the logs. Our receptionist needed extra cash around the holidays. She was calling our customer base to try to sell an additional service. Even while answering the phones and handling her other duties, she was making over 100 dials some days.

              I showed this to the young lady in question, and she seemed shocked. She was previously working for a trucking company from home. She was prospecting just as she is now. It seems that they did not police her activities wel and now she thinks that I'm a tyrant. Lol

              Update: Today's call report shows 116. Moving in the right direction. Probably going to find a way to record these calls.
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              • Profile picture of the author Jeremiah Walsh
                Originally Posted by longrobnc View Post

                All of the calls are made to one market segment, for one product. She's using an excel sheet. She is supposed to go down the list and color code the contacts by outcome. At the end of the day, she goes back and shoots out emails to some of the contacts. I've asked her not to research the companies. She will find out what she needs to know while on the calls.

                I've asked her to make all 100 calls in 2 segments. 2 hours in the morning, 2 hours in the afternoon. Use the rest of the time to send email follow ups and to send information to our estimator for those prospects that were interested. The estimator builds the quotes and emails them out. She would also need time to make follow up calls to quotes that we have sent out. Right now, it's usually 1 or 2 a day and she just started so that work load is low.

                I went back and checked the logs. Our receptionist needed extra cash around the holidays. She was calling our customer base to try to sell an additional service. Even while answering the phones and handling her other duties, she was making over 100 dials some days.

                I showed this to the young lady in question, and she seemed shocked. She was previously working for a trucking company from home. She was prospecting just as she is now. It seems that they did not police her activities wel and now she thinks that I'm a tyrant. Lol
                Sadly, not all employees are created equal.

                I often hear from salespeople the same argument. "I would rather make the calls count instead of making the call counts". However, those who are not heavily active always run out of good pipeline and end up missing the mark at the end.

                I once hired a waitress from The Keg because she had a fantastic personality and was able to build an instant rapport. She turned out to be one of my best hires and locked down some key accounts for me. Unfortunately for me and fortunately for her she moved on to HP and is killing it in field sales.

                I have also hired people that were from a competitor in my industry who had plenty of success stories to tell and the person just floundered.

                In the end you never truly know who will succeed and who wont until you try them out.

                It seems like you should make her your receptionist and your receptionist your cold caller. I bet you would get a different story out of it.
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                • Profile picture of the author John Durham
                  Originally Posted by Jeremiah Walsh View Post


                  In the end you never truly know who will succeed and who wont until you try them out.

                  .

                  The same goes for a cold calling itself. That's why it's important to dial a lot of numbers...


                  On the point of employees,


                  One day I had some kid walk into my office with no sales experience... he kind of looked like a punk from my estimation, saggy pants...all that..., I was just coming in from lunch when he pulled up. His friend was waiting out in the parking lot blaring rap music really loud, which immediately seemed a bit disrespectful.


                  Honestly as I walked by and saw him sitting in the lobby filling out his app I was thinking "No way. I'm just going to get this interview over with as quick as possible..."


                  Ended up, he was a house painter, and he had a young family, and had just had a baby... he had never done anything but paint houses. I could see that his hands looked rough, but he had a gentle polite demeanor. In fact, after talking for a minute, I was almost afraid he might be too shy for the job...


                  I asked him "Why do you want to be a telemarketer?"


                  His reply made my light bulb come on. He said "because I want to be something more for myself and my family. I don't want to be a housepainter all my life. I want to learn sales and be a business person maybe someday."


                  WOW! Did I feel guilty for my prior thoughts.


                  I hired him, and he really embraced it, and ended up being my telemarketer of the month a couple of months later.


                  You just never know.


                  "J.C. Ferguson"


                  Hope he is still selling today, and has become that successful business man he always dreamed of being..
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          • Profile picture of the author TrickyDick
            Originally Posted by longrobnc View Post

            I'm looking at the dial numbers in this thread and I'm baffled. I hired a lady 6 weeks ago to cold call home builders. I guaranteed her $45k a year with the ability to make a nice income above and beyond the base. I gave her a very short pitch asking if they are accepting bids. I put together a list in excel from local associations.

            My minimum expectation for her was 100 dials per day. She averages about 55 calls in 8 hours. She is telling me that 100 isn't possible. When I'm checking her results, it's 75% voice mails. I'm not asking her to do anything but make these calls. Looks like I'm set up poorly or I hired the wrong person. I spent a month getting her prepared to make these calls.

            I think this method fails for some because people just don't pick up the phone and dial. I've tried paying people $12 an hour plus incentives and now the last 2 people with salaries $52k and $45k respectively. None of them make the calls necessary for me to bother keeping them on my payroll. I was advised to pay a better guarantee and I would get a higher quality candidate. That is NOT the case.
            Hmm...

            If I was offering a "guaranteed" salary plus incentives, I would set the parameters as to the number of minimum dials I expect per day.... That could 300-800 per day depending upon your industry and pitch.

            When you're paying someone on salary, you can expect they work "unpaid overtime." That is what all businesses do... That is why they love salaried employees. They essentially own them 24/7. I'm not advocating you force your staff to work 16 hour days 7 days a week. But, I would definitely expect more than 8 hours 5 days a week when they are "learning the ropes."
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            • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
              Originally Posted by TrickyDick View Post

              Hmm...

              If I was offering a "guaranteed" salary plus incentives, I would set the parameters as to the number of minimum dials I expect per day.... That could 300-800 per day depending upon your industry and pitch.

              When you're paying someone on salary, you can expect they work "unpaid overtime." That is what all businesses do... That is why they love salaried employees. They essentially own them 24/7. I'm not advocating you force your staff to work 16 hour days 7 days a week. But, I would definitely expect more than 8 hours 5 days a week when they are "learning the ropes."
              I guess that really depends on where you are from.

              I am from the Tri-state area ... so i know exactly what you mean,
              but if you try that in Florida, you will have a mutiny on your hands.

              Florida is a right to fire state ... so at least we have that.

              Funny story ... a major "oops" on my part. I had salaried employees
              and then I hired a bunch of interns. The interns were getting between
              10-12 an hr. They were supposed to be part time only (school regs)
              however ... they never left unless they were told to go home.

              Long story short ... the smarter interns were making more then
              some of the senior salaried staff.

              That was one of the worst mistakes of my career. I really did
              almost have a mutiny and a bunch of important people quit.

              Like I said .... "ooops"
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              • Profile picture of the author TrickyDick
                Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

                I guess that really depends on where you are from.

                I am from the Tri-state area ... so i know exactly what you mean,
                but if you try that in Florida, you will have a mutiny on your hands.

                Florida is a right to fire state ... so at least we have that.
                Everywhere I've been the expectation was 50 hour per week minimum..... There were stretches when we worked 70 hours per week....

                The companies take on as much work as they can get...... They never consider "adequate" staffing needs... or how it was damaging employee's health, family and relationships. It was all bottom line driven.

                They saw it as.... If you don't want to put in the "necessary" hours, they will find someone who will.

                I'm sure there is a strong need for people at the lower end of the spectrum in Florida....

                But, I'm shocked Florida employers wouldn't expect what employers in San Francisco, Los Angeles, Denver and New York expect. I cannot imagine Florida's employers are so desperate for "warm bodies" they expect so little out of their "Professional" employees.

                All of those workers from San Francisco, Los Angeles, Denver and New York would be elated to get a "normal" salary and only work 40 hours a week in Florida... It would be like a permanent vacation for them. :-)
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      • Profile picture of the author neuroscience
        In that space you should check out Chet Holmes, made Charlie Munger (partner of Warren Buffett) insane amounts, magazinesales. Chet is no BS, straight to the point.
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  • Profile picture of the author shoppingpoint
    how can i get this software free.Basically I want to trial this , If it is working to me. then I will buy this .

    If you are able to get such an opportunity...Please inform me
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    • Profile picture of the author shadow92
      Originally Posted by shoppingpoint View Post

      how can i get this software free.Basically I want to trial this , If it is working to me. then I will buy this .

      If you are able to get such an opportunity...Please inform me
      That's what you got out of all this? ...
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      • Profile picture of the author Mav91890
        Originally Posted by shadow92 View Post

        That's what you got out of all this? ...
        He has two posts dude, what do you expect? lol

        Thanks for the thread shadow. Got some great stuff in this thread by the looks of it. It's honestly hard to know who to trust and who to stay clear of in the forum. There are so many posers haha. The only thing you can do is split test, see what does and does not work. And this isn't directed at you whatsoever.

        Thanks for the thread
        Signature

        “The only thing standing between you and your goal is the bullshit story you keep telling yourself as to why you can't achieve it.” ― Jordan Belfort

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  • Profile picture of the author socialentry
    Did you consider PUMMELING HER WITH YOUR FISTS????

    I kid, but 55 calls in 8 hour is unnacceptable, what is she doing, staring at the wall?
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    • Profile picture of the author longrobnc
      Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

      Did you consider PUMMELING HER WITH YOUR FISTS????

      I kid, but 55 calls in 8 hour is unnacceptable, what is she doing, staring at the wall?
      Lol, I'll go ahead and place some bail money in escrow.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    In agreement with Ken, you don't have to fire her... You can give her the parameters and say "This is how many dials are possible per hour, and what the job calls for"


    Then leave it to her if she wants the job or not.


    I once told a manager that something wasn't possible in my early days. He looked up in the middle of my whining story with a serious face and said "Are you telling me that you can't do the job, John ?"

    Then he stopped talking and continued looking me in the eye...

    After an awkward pause I said "No Sir" and went back to my desk and started performing. Turns out, it was possible! lol


    On another note: I've managed 100 people, made millions of dollars in sales, and still didn't make 45k per year!




    .
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  • Profile picture of the author BarbaraP
    "Well, The obvious problem is me. I hired her and I trained her. It's ultimately my responsibility. If she was doing great, I would be busting my arm patting myself on the back. I don't want to fire her. I can't. She's a single mother that quit a job to join us. I'm thinking of putting her on a dialer. That may fix the issue. I'm not giving up so soon."

    The issue is probably not in the mechanics of how the number is dialed. It starts with the list, the offer, the script and goes from there. You can dial 5x the phone numbers and still not have the sales results you need if the training and solution-selling script don't match the targets you're calling. At least you're realizing it's not all her fault, Even if I'm dialing with my fingers, I can call a LOT more numbers than she's dialing.

    You may want to record and review some of those calls to see how she's really delivering the script and how people are reacting and when they react during the call. That will help you get to the heart of the sales issue, not just the # calls/hour.

    Wonder what her job was that she "quit to join us." Sales super-star or someone who just LOVED the idea of getting a fabulous salary with no accountability and responsibility for results? (Do your job and train her and equip her with the tools she needs to succeed.

    Single mom or not, if she's still failing, she needs to get a new job.
    As a single mom myself, I encourage you to unpack that "she's a single mom" guilt trip suitcase you've already packed. Just be fair, give her the training, technology, best list and script possible, review the results, document and make the best business decision.
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    • Profile picture of the author Freebiequeen1999
      I think the OP means well....but $45k for an unproven telemarketer is pretty off the wall...even if you "trained" her there is something wrong here...

      the numbers do not add up....especially if she is not talking and engaging with potential customers. It does not add up period. If she was reaching answer machines, ...then her numbers should even be higher.

      JMO - put a recorder on and record every call ..yes, she can say "our call is recorded for quality insurance"..

      Not only are the numbers low...but she may be switching the script...sounding dull or disinterested....adding her own stuff...or rushing through it.

      I have seen newbies follow a script and start doing well then they decide to take shortcuts and or "embellish" it and the answer is always the same...go back to the script.

      the other answer is keep going.

      My guess is her problem falls into one of the two above....so record, track and see what is going on....then put in a rule of what exactly is expected here

      hth
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  • Profile picture of the author keywordkey
    Do you think the name of your company matters when cold calling? As in, would a locally named domain make any difference in your opinion?Thanks!
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  • Profile picture of the author Underground
    John, I see you deleted some of the views you made about spending any time on pre-call research in order to customize a call a bit being a waste of time. Or even the mark of a failure.

    Have you really found that you win more sales in the same amount of time speaking to 200 random people vs someone speaking to 20 ideal fits who they checked out a bit and found something relevant and important to reference and relate their pitch to?

    You've got far more experience than me and I'd be interested in why you shun anything but going blind.

    In email, when you just generically spam people with a sales pitch you'll be very lucky to get a response from 1000 emails sent.

    But you can send send 100 emails with a personalized email that shows you have a relevant reason for contact and get 10-90% rates regularly.

    I've seen a lot of trainers advocate pre-call research and having something relevant, timely and important to them to use in the openers to get more compliance and better success. Art Sobchek, Bob Etherington and others. Bob Ross recently too as a well of getting far more uptake when selling ad space.

    But I've seen doubt poured on, from you and others. Like this article here.

    I have to pre-select, whatever my preference.

    But I think there is a distinction to be drawn between just finding something relevant to open which buys you a bit more time and between the other reason why people pre-select.

    At this point I feel I'd rather call 20 businesses I already know could benefit rather than 200 to find those 20 where my pitch has relevance. Financial advisers who have just released a press release for example where I could ask them do they want to get that infront of another 50,000 local people for $000 whatever. Just that kind of straight-forward pitch that I'd give my right-arm to be able to hire someone like you to deliver all day long. I'd only want to hire you for phoning a carefully selected list rather than randoms.

    It feels more logical to me that I'd get better results by checking first so I'm calling 20 FA's who have just release press released. Admittedly though, I have tested the two approached so it's just a personal hunch/

    It would surely be quicker to take a cursory glance to discount them before calling rather than phoning and 90% of that time being dead time.


    So there's two sides. Why do you take such a strong position on one side? In my situation, where what I have ideal customers at a certain stage that are perfect fit for my services, and where it's essential I preselect, would you still advise me just to get a speed dialer and makes hundreds of calls to find them rather than just using the net and certain sites to find who I need?
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Hi Underground,


    I deleted them because the dialogue seems to have taken a different turn, toward "employees", and I felt that the stuff I had written was leading away from the current direction that the conversations have taken.


    Having created a few forums over the past 5-6 years, I have a unique perspective on "threads", and so I try to respect the continuity of them and help them stay on topic. If they take a different direction, then the relevance of the OP gets lost, however even though that can become a lost cause, I still try to respect the continuity and not take it off the direction it was going.


    So that's why I deleted that part of my post.


    I don't shun anything other than going in blind. As you saw in earler posts of mine on this thread, I have created all kinds of ways over time to generate call lists, and I believe in having a targeted one, however; having been the manager of hundreds of telemarketers, and having for years monitored stats and consistently met quotas for entire large rooms, as well as for my own businesses... I have also seen some other things that some others don't take into account.


    To be specific; I have seen telemarketers time and time again complain about a list and blame it for being the reason they can't get sales... While the entire room was producing with the same lists.


    This is not something I have seen once, but it's something that other call center managers here on the forum can relate to. We have seen larger numbers of calls, callers, and telesales campaigns than others, and our perspective on this subject is broader.


    I have seen many telemarketers talk about how they were tweaking their list and leads, and how if they just took a little extra time to do this or that, or send emails in between calls , then they could do better... I have seen them suggest all kinds of things to make telemarketing easier in their minds, and as a result waste half of their week tweaking things instead of doing the one thing that matters most, and that is talking to a lot of people.


    I have, as other managers here, seen average performers, low performers, and high performers, not by the handful but by the TON, on a day to day basis for years, and it has been my job to do whatever it takes to get them performing.


    And here is the main common denominator, the one that you can't see from hypothesis, and you can't extrapolate the meaning of by trying to connect the dots in your head that would hypothetically make sense, without having EXPERIENCED it on a large scale basis... There are some things that only experience can teach you, and that common denominator is this:


    The guy that always needs more, the guy that always wants better call material, the guy that says we could perform better if we only had "this", the guy that says the leads aren't targeted enough...


    Is the guy that never makes quota.


    The guys who keep their head down on the phone, and aren't needy, and don't complain about the list, and take the good with the bad, and talk all day long, and don't ask for much, and don't say "we need a better way"...


    Those guys make sales ALL DAY LONG!


    On another note...I have also purchased a lot of call lists in my time, and have found that you can't depend on a lead list being any better than any other one just because someone thought it was more targeted because of this or that.


    Let me give you an example:


    Let's say you are an insurance agent, and you buy a call list from a person who says "I generated all these leads exclusively on my website. They are people who actually filled out my contact form looking for an insurance quote"


    You may think that is better than what would seem like a cold list.


    But then you get to calling it and find out that the people who filled out that form had been searching google for that type of insurance, and they actually filled out forms for hours trying to get quotes from all kinds of companies the same day, in the same session of researching for insurance, and when you call it 3 things happen:


    1: They tell you that they got called by five different agents that week.
    2: They tell you that they are just taking quotes right now and comparing companies.
    3: They tell you that they filled out a lot of forms and they don't even remember the name of your company.


    Compare that to a cold list now...


    On the cold list you are catching people off guard who weren't thinking of it, and you are suggesting it to them, and they have no pre conceived notions, and you actually have a chance to get in their mind and give them an idea.


    Now lets say that you have a list of 30 of these Qualified inquiries... because they are a bit harder to come by... And the guy next to you has a list of 200 cold calls... He will create a BUNCH of even warmer leads, in the form of call backs, that are even more qualified, as he goes along, AND sell cold calls along the way.


    Again, this is from experience, not extrapolation of what would seem like the next logical thought...


    In my experience, the guy who is dialing the hell out of a cold list, who has his head down pitching a ton of people, instead of spending a lot of energy thinking about how to treat his golden list, is going to beat you in production 9 times out of ten at the end of the day.


    This was one example... and it's not always true, sometimes more targeted leads ARE better...


    But without nit picking any particular point, if you can take the GENERAL truth out of this post...


    A guy who is willing to really work with what he has, and not spend half of his week trying to make things PERFECT, but rather is putting his head down and just WORKING on the quota with his mind set on getting it, is always going to be the guy who does better.


    To reiterate; he is also CREATING exclusive warm leads all along the way. that's what a "call back" is- a warm lead.




    Again, these are just general truths.


    It even works in the numbers here on the Warrior Forum... There are guys who spend years here, trying to wait until everything is perfect before they really start taking action on marketing... working on ideas that may have been tested but THEY haven't tested it yet, thinking their chances of success will be better by waiting...


    Then there are guys on the WF who start marketing their content on free google online documents, working with whatever they have NOW, and getting into ACTION, making distinctions in LIVE action, by the minute, while the others are still fussing over all these little nuances that sound like they work in theory, or that worked for someone ELSE... only to find that they spent six months preparing for something that never was going to work for THEM in the first place, for one reason or another.


    It's better to make distinctions in ACTION.


    On the WF, the guys who end up making money are the ones who take what is in front of them and start working it hard... and they have $60,000 in the bank while someone else is still trying to figure out how to make things perfect before they will make a move.


    I have found this, in closing to this long post:


    I could get my mind set that "antique dealers" is a great market to cold call, because of some seemingly logical equation I came up with in my head, spend days preparing a list, and call it for days only to find out it wasn't good to me...or I could bust out a phone book and from hour to hour switch industries until I find one that grooves for me, and I will find a responsive industry to call by the end of a couple of hours.


    Maybe antique dealers are great for someone else, but my particular personality gets a better response from day care providers...who knows what the reason is...


    The most effective way to COLD call is not to set an industry in stone in that case, or to plan for six months on how you are going to call on THIS category, but rather to bust out a phone book and dial 25 daycare centers, then if they aren't working for you switch to construction companies, and if they aren't working for you switch to attorneys...and don't settle on a category until you get to the one that is grooving for you...


    These are generalizations, there are exceptions, but another thing you find out from having monitored all of these calls over the years is that exceptions are called exceptions BECAUSE THEY ARENT THE RULE.


    The rule is that if you take whatever is in front of you, get into action and start making live distinctions, you will have a quicker route to success, and make distinctions faster.


    In short, you get more done when you are ROCKING than you do when you are PREPARING to rock all the time, and I feel that people put too much energy into planning out lead lists that they haven't even TRIED yet, instead of trying a bunch of calls and finding out what works best for them.


    This doesn't apply to all ways of creating leads. I know I have a better chance of selling someone on my mailing list than I do a cold call... My point here could easily be nit picked, and because I say something GENERAL, and Im trying to help as broad a market of people as possible, it would be easy to pigeon hole everything Im saying and say "John doesn't believe in targeted lists"... and that would be untrue. John is actually a PRO at creating targeted ones in truth.


    BUT, with that being said, I am not discouraging targeted lists, I am ENCOURAGING rather "WORK WITH WHATEVER YOU HAVE AND GET TO ROCKING!"


    "KNOCK ON 100 DOORS WHILE THE NEXT GUY IS STANDING THERE PLANNING OUT HOW HE IS GOING TO KNOCK ON HIS FIRST ONE!"


    If you have a targeted list great, but don't spend six months planning to call on a list that you don't even know for a fact is going to make you sell any better than a cold call would.


    Im not saying there aren't better ways... Im saying that if you are in action, you will beat the guy who is waiting for a better way every time.


    Last point:


    I didn't say all of this about my experience to brag, and I didn't say "You can't imagine this unless you have seen large scale numbers" in order to talk down to anyone or say I'm better because of my experience...


    I said it for one simple reason: Because you asked.


    I don't think that YOU would, but SOMEONE will misconstrue everything I have said and take it as arrogance, or that I am bragging about my experience, and thinking I am a know it all....


    That would not be the truth. I am humbling myself to fellow warriors here by taking the time to give my all. Hopefully someone can benefit from that resource of experience. If not, that's okay. Im not the last word, just saying what I have seen as a telemarketer, a manager over many, and also as a person who has made close to 50,000 sales online without ever even picking up a phone.


    Take it for what its worth.


    Hope this helps.


    -JD

    Ps.

    I think Mobile Renegade is great, just so you know, and some other softwares out there... Im just saying, don't bank on it, if you cant sell cold calls.


    If you cant sell cold calls you cant sell hot leads either.


    It wont make THAT much difference.
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  • Profile picture of the author Underground
    Thanks, John.

    I asked because I know I was going to get an education and some insight into things, and you provided that.


    The business I've built for myself is far more involved and multi-faceted than just a simple, easy to run internet marketing agency where I work with a handful of clients each month offering the same kind of services, of the kind I launched when I first started out.

    Cash flow problems and insufficient capital has made me have to wear far too many hats and learn far to many things and spend too much time stuck in research and development to create a wide range of products and services.

    But I also realize I need to take the role of over-seer and director and get professionals in to fill all the roles. I'll be soon able to do that and end the torturous cycle of having to wear every hat and I can start hiring and building teams. And get selling products and services on large scale.

    So I approach my business from that perspective and need to ensure each role I fill is as near to optimal as possible.

    I considered for a long time what my options are for when I can launch a complete and consistent lead gen and sales team.

    I've many times considered looking to hiring someone like yourself to open, run and train and office and start hiring telemarketing/sales pro's. I know there are firms I can hire to do that as I've already spoken to a few in the past who could perform that function.

    Alternatively I can reach 27,000 people with leaflets or letters here in the UK for a few grand to generate leads. And I think that will be my first port of calls given my objectives but won't make me stop testing and seeking the best methods.


    I have to consider which will bring the greatest return. I'm drawn to arguments from Perry Marshall and others about creating lead gen material like letters, press releases to eliminate cold calling altogether as a form of lead gen because there are ways to automate that and take out the grunt work, and reach far more people and position yourself better. You obviously know what I mean and what that line of thinking is.

    I've long separated to prospecting from sales and I've always looked to line up my sales people with 3-400 hundred pre-research leads, finding the owner one linked with a direct number etc, who fits the bill instead of having them call a random list because I need to get the most value. I see exactly where your coming from in keeping lists and all that away from the dialer so they can be focused.

    I shared stuff by Aaron Ross in this thread. It's more involved and more for people who need to build business development teams and because I do need to do that, it's relevant to me and appeals to me. It's nothing new obviously, but he brings a certain proven structure and workable model to give the principles some sytemizable and repeatable form/

    The four ebooks I posted are each on one of the four functions he split his sales teams into. Instead of having his top sales people dealing with lead gen and nurturing or prospecting and building lists and then have them dealing with customer care and diluting all their time.

    He keeps all those roles distinct and it sky rocketed the results his teams got. The sellers could just get on with selling, prospectors in finding and researching and qualifying leads, etc. But he eliminated cold calls for his sales people, with high response emails that generated more than enough leads and cut out all the stuff most people in general dislike about cold calls.

    It ties in with what you are saying, in the idea that top sales performers should be allow just to get their had down and do just that, even if it takes a slightly different tact. if you're burdening you sales talent with all these other roles, it leads to less focus and productivity. But you can segregate the role of so they're dealing with just calling, but it's got to be a good think to make sure they are talking with more people with a higher probably of being a customers than not. So I think if it's feasible for someone to incorporate both roles then it should be done. If only one option is available, then just getting a good, focused person getting on the phone is obvious the better option.


    In my case right now, where I'm in the middle of hiring experienced closers and I'm building my ideal prospects list to generate the capital to then invest in building a sales, marketing and prospecting team and scale up, it's essential I find a good batch of people to serve up to them rather than try to phone a more random list. But I will need that function too. Focused people with the attributes you mentioned, who can just get their head down and consistently call.

    Instead of hiring three 10 an hour telemarketers, I'd rather hire one good prospector, 1 marketing specialist to do one-to-many marketing to generate leads. And one star sales person who just deals with and closers highly qualified 5-10 levels leads.

    I have 1 magazine to fill with up to 100 spaces a month. Which could generate £100,000 a month in revenue if filled to capacity at the rate I want, most of that profit. And that's in one borough. Of 4-5 I intend to target down the road. Plus loads of other offline stuff. I say that not to try to appear something, but to say when the reward for maximising every sales and marketing activity for maximum return is as high as that, obviously I'm motivated and open to finding the best and most direct way to achieve that.

    I have no bias either way. Is the Dan Kennedy style lead gen system which supposedly eliminates old-school cold calling and generates qualified and interesting leads (not the quote shoppers) just expensive and unnecessary. Or, as someone with massive experience in running telesales teams, would simply hiring a sales manager and building a telemarketing team or 5-6 people hitting the phones like the did under your command at any one time enough be enough to fill out around 100 spaces from £300 to £3500 in ad space in a month, at least once or a few times over?
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    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      ^^^ Underground, from what it sounds, advertisers won't
      have heard of your mag.

      Your ideal target advertiser is one that advertisers in
      other publications over a long time.

      Your message then becomes getting more of what
      those other medias offer.

      You are working with proven buying habits.

      You can use time and exclusivity constraints to
      get them to advertise with you.

      Get this message mastered and say it to those
      high probability advertisers and you'd be excited about
      hitting the phones.

      No complicated campaign and lead generation
      needed when you get those 2 things mastered.

      Best,
      Doctor E. Vile
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      • Profile picture of the author Underground
        Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

        ^^^ Underground, from what it sounds, advertisers won't
        have heard of your mag.

        Your ideal target advertiser is one that advertisers in
        other publications over a long time.

        Your message then becomes getting more of what
        those other medias offer.

        You are working with proven buying habits.

        You can use time and exclusivity constraints to
        get them to advertise with you.

        Get this message mastered and say it to those
        high probability advertisers and you'd be excited about
        hitting the phones.

        No complicated campaign and lead generation
        needed when you get those 2 things mastered.

        Best,
        Doctor E. Vile
        Thanks for chiming in. That's reassuring and appreciated advice.

        I've done my best to add extras other mags aren't offering, or are asking extra for. Plus deals, urgency, different formats that other mags aren't doing. A whole digital marketing package tied in.

        And finding others advertising in other publications is something I need to make sure I make a concerted effort to do, instead of being one of those things I know is a good idea but don't actually take action on. I was pretty confident just me and a good rep could fill the mag to a sufficiently agreeable capacity, even with a new mag because of all the widgets and deals that I've attempted to make as appealing and value-laden for businesses where most will realize it's a really good option for them that they can't in competing mags. .

        But I've been confident on many things that didn't pan out, so to get that feedback there gives me that extra certainly to make sure I don't wimp out of those things like going the extra distance to find as many current advertisers as possible. Worth a day's research.

        Cheers.
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        • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
          Originally Posted by Underground View Post

          Thanks for chiming in. That's reassuring and appreciated advice.

          I've done my best to add extras other mags aren't offering, or are asking extra for. Plus deals, urgency, different formats that other mags aren't doing. A whole digital marketing package tied in.

          Cheers.
          Extras can be confusing and may be nice to have,
          but aren't what causes the buy in many cases.

          For many advertisers it's just getting in front of more
          of their market, so you don't have to come up with
          add-ons.

          And don't think of finding advertisers in other publications as a chore or
          a one time thing, because they are what can set you up
          for life. It's like a treasure hunt.

          Let me know if you want help on this.

          Best,
          Doctor E. Vile
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          • Profile picture of the author Underground
            Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

            Extras can be confusing and may be nice to have,
            but aren't what causes the buy in many cases.

            For many advertisers it's just getting in front of more
            of their market, so you don't have to come up with
            add-ons.

            And don't think of finding advertisers in other publications as a chore or
            a one time thing, because they are what can set you up
            for life. It's like a treasure hunt.

            Let me know if you want help on this.

            Best,
            Doctor E. Vile
            I've tired to make the extras just as desirable. Like they also get £1-200 dollars worth of facebook advertising that will get them near enough instant leads and views in the digital version and get to grow their list. Plus email blasts, and promotion across the rest of next work.

            I know though, looking at my copy there's bloat there with things that don't add to the argument. I gave my first media kit to family and it was 30 pages and they just got overwhelmed so I cut it down to just essentials. And have broken the content up into chunks. I happened to be listening to content from Gary Bencivenga about the power of long copy and included as much info as I could but then realized the approach that was needed was more like the non-bloat advertising you talked about in one of you advertising mistakes threads recently.

            I would very much appreciate some help on this. Thank you very much for the offer. What an opportunity.

            I'm still working on a few documents and copy and messaging for the site and educational content. I'm far from even a decent copy writer and know there are many weak areas.

            It would be great to get to run that content by you in a few days and get your help on feedback on that?

            Thanks again Ewan. The offer of help would be a massive foot-up.

            With the ad thing I've already started collected other mags and was going to do on more passive basis. But in my next free time I want to make a prolonged effort to identify relevant advertisers, find out what they're paying and then offer then a better deal when I'm pitching next week or so. I'll be sure to make that an ongoing thing.
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            • Profile picture of the author savidge4
              Originally Posted by Underground View Post

              With the ad thing I've already started collected other mags and was going to do on more passive basis. But in my next free time I want to make a prolonged effort to identify relevant advertisers, find out what they're paying and then offer then a better deal when I'm pitching next week or so. I'll be sure to make that an ongoing thing.
              Not that you will read a word that I am about to say... but finding out what prospective advertisers are paying in other publications is not somewhere I would go. In fact the idea of telling the prospective buyer you know they advertise in other publications would be something I would stay away from.

              Can the topic be brought up with a series of questions? by all means yes, and that would be the approach I would take. If you hit this thread and watch the video by Bob Ross: http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...cold-call.html you will see the use of this tactic from someone other than me.

              This would allow you the opportunity to introduce your USP and Value from a place of Authority over a presented sales pitch and offering "a better deal".

              Since you are using a far more efficient e-mail marketing method... to be honest I am not sure this type of communication can be started. I will assume in some way shape or form the initial contact e-mail is going to communicate the fact you are selling publication based advertising.

              If the reader of such an e-mail is already doing so ( advertising in a publication ), it would stand to reason that your conversion rate would drop by a good amount based on the objection of "I am already doing that" before the connection and communication of USP and Value could even be introduced.
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              • Profile picture of the author Underground
                Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                Not that you will read a word that I am about to say... but finding out what prospective advertisers are paying in other publications is not somewhere I would go. In fact the idea of telling the prospective buyer you know they advertise in other publications would be something I would stay away from.

                Can the topic be brought up with a series of questions? by all means yes, and that would be the approach I would take. If you hit this thread and watch the video by Bob Ross: http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...cold-call.html you will see the use of this tactic from someone other than me.

                This would allow you the opportunity to introduce your USP and Value from a place of Authority over a presented sales pitch and offering "a better deal".

                Since you are using a far more efficient e-mail marketing method... to be honest I am not sure this type of communication can be started. I will assume in some way shape or form the initial contact e-mail is going to communicate the fact you are selling publication based advertising.

                If the reader of such an e-mail is already doing so ( advertising in a publication ), it would stand to reason that your conversion rate would drop by a good amount based on the objection of "I am already doing that" before the connection and communication of USP and Value could even be introduced.
                I hear that and thanks for pointed that out. It would certainly ruin all the work I've done in trying to create something unique so I can ask for higher prices to go in with a pitch that would have me competing on price and position me as commodity seller.

                I would use that knowledge privately and to my own advantage. It would be a factor to them that would prevent a sale if they're paying £1500 for a two-page spread in an established national magazine with 5 times circulation and I try to pitch them £2999 for much less, it's most likely not happening all things being equal, unless they were looking to target people exclusively in their immediate locale for an important event or something perhaps.

                If though, it's the reverse, I wouldn't need to explicitly state they could get much more for half the price.

                I agree, it's one of those things better left unspoken so it doesn't become the biggest factor in their decision making but just cements the value of my USP when they hear the price and see they are getting a really good deal.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    I have mentioned this before, not to go into the whole story but my room had a contract with an employment guide at one time, the kind where you see the little green stands all over town, free publications... A segment of our telemarketers called on employers offering them deals on advertising space. The goal for each TM was to make 2 sales per day.


    The process was simply what I call a "Fax/Callback" or "Follow Up" method.


    A lot of the leads came from regional newspapers, we would target companies who were already advertising in classified sections around the region... because, in line with our talk about targeting, they were proven buyers. The telemarketer would basically sit there at his desk with a page taken out of the daily regional newspapers classified section, and call all the employers who had "want ads" listed...


    The idea was to call them up and ask permission from the decision maker to send a fax over showing him our advertising packages, and get a commitment from him to talk again later in the day , ie; "I will call back a little later in the day to make sure you got my fax , and had a chance to look it over, and also to answer any questions you might have, would that be okay? Great! Whats a good time for you, when you feel you might have had a chance to look it over?"


    Then later when you called back you would say "Bob, did you get my fax ok? Great! Have you got that in front of you? Great, I just wanted to point something out, you see that little box up in the right hand corner that says ....?"


    And you could sell him by sitting there talking him through the flyer (fax) while he was holding it in his hand. Ideally you wanted to sell him a 6 month advertising package...


    It worked. We sold lots of advertising space, every day. Actually, it was pretty high conversion.
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  • Profile picture of the author Underground
    Glad to hear that John. I've never sold advertising or have never tried to sell at this level.

    My intuition was telling me to do exactly the same thing in principle. In essence get the nod to send material that basically does the presentation and gives them all the info they need, pin down and agreement and time to follow then have an experienced closer phone back and take care of closing the order is they wanted to go ahead.

    So to hear that you've been success with that is again good to know I'm in the right vicinity on how best to get out of the traps with this.

    One issue I had was where to locate these advertisers. I can go on issuu and find digital mags, Collect mags and papers in my area. I know I'll have to got through a lot of stuff to get a large amount to call. And was pretty stumped on other sources.

    But I'd never considered the free classified ad sites on the net. But they have an abundance of businesses I can instantly identify as being located in the area I'm targeted and should be a gold mine.

    Great info.

    I did have an idea of going with offering a free classified listing which is just business name, number, and website/email and offering that for free and a kind of lead generator to boost response and could then perhaps get the up-sell info to them where they can see it easily and get back.

    One thing you've taught here in the past that always appealed me was the free website thing. Offering that free and then obviously upselling. And how effective that was/

    I'll just go direct first so I'm not dealing with a too many people who just wanted the free stuff. But will definitely implement that at some stage to generate leads into the funnel.

    Thanks for giving your experience on that.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author Underground
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Underground,


      I'm not caught up on all the reading in this thread yet, for the last few posts, (have just skimmed) so I don't know what Ewan is telling you, but (in line with your thinking about a targeted list) we found our success by calling out of other peoples classified sections where there was an abundance of proven paid ad buyers.
      And an abundance of proven ad buyers is just what I need. That tip is going to prove massively useful to me and expedite my prospecting. Thanks John.


      Was just doing some research actually looking for voucher/coupon type templates for the magazine. I was working on some but they're not ideal.

      Somehow I landed on a magazine title from territories I'll be competing with.

      They are a luxury brand. Aimed at affluent urbanite and professional types in rich areas.

      I've tried to aim at affluent households, targeting some of the richest neighbourhoods in the world for readership.

      But for businesses, I'll be targeting small, medium and large.

      After looking at the rates these guys charge, £10,750 for a back cover ad, I need to make sure I get into that market where selling 10 ads can get to 100k revenue as fast as.

      I knew I needed separate strategies to target corporates and big businesses, and I think it's essential I separate marketing material to create a luxury look and feel for a document that is exclusive for a higher-end luxury market and the rates are more in line with what they'd pay and have different material for people with more sense than money


      There's always a massive difference in copy style, imagery, tone between marketing material aimed at luxury type buyers who could splash 10k on ads and those not in that category, at least every time I've compared the two.

      Next week I'm going for low hanging fruit. Major limited time discounts because I need capital, but as soon as I need start getting my branding and position aimed at those people paying 4 times what I'm asking. I'd could be in profit inside two ads.

      That magazine goes to about the same number of houses or the same demographics as my mag. They have extra distribution outlets I'm not offering yet, and obviously established and have brand recognition so I don't think I can compete nose for nose just yet.

      I'd definitely be happy and increasingly wealthy with half the rates they are getting.

      I'll go after these advertisers and look for content and announcements and press releases and articles to contact them about and pitch to get out there.

      Am I right in thinking it's better to create differing marketing material for this market?

      It seems to me most luxury buyers buy on the perception of luxury, elitism and exclusivity more than anything else.
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  • Profile picture of the author daniyal100
    Any plans to write down your exact method in a pdf and sell it as a WSO for 9$ a pop?
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    • Profile picture of the author shadow92
      Originally Posted by daniyal100 View Post

      Any plans to write down your exact method in a pdf and sell it as a WSO for 9$ a pop?
      I just wrote down my exact method and posted it for free. I'm not an advocate of WSO's. I prefer to find/test my own ideas and methods, and believe others should do the same.

      A $9 WSO won't change your life, surprisingly there are many that continue to believe it will.
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      • Profile picture of the author anthonyjames
        Originally Posted by shadow92 View Post

        I just wrote down my exact method and posted it for free. I'm not an advocate of WSO's. I prefer to find/test my own ideas and methods, and believe others should do the same.
        Just recently wrote it down on the forum, or just on a page in the office? Would love to read it.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Originally Posted by shadow92 View Post

    A $9 WSO won't change your life, surprisingly there are many that continue to believe it will.

    I'm not so sure about that one shadow, I agree with you on most things.... but, I have seen WSO's change peoples lives a lot of times.


    I don't even have a single one for sale currently, so I have no horse in the race... but I HAVE seen them change a lot of peoples lives.


    I do respect your feelings on the matter and won't debate, just giving my two cents.
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    • Profile picture of the author shadow92
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      I'm not so sure about that one shadow, I agree with you on most things.... but, I have seen WSO's change peoples lives a lot of times.


      I don't even have a single one for sale currently, so I have no horse in the race... but I HAVE seen them change a lot of peoples lives.


      I do respect your feelings on the matter and won't debate, just giving my two cents.
      You're probably right John, I'm sure they have changed some peoples lives. I should have chosen a better way to phrase it.

      Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I'm one to respect opinions, not debate.

      None of my posts will ever lead into a WSO. I think people get so caught up in them at times, they consider every case study, or informative threads to be a pre-wso and IMO it de-values the post when people mention "WSO"

      Just want it to be clear that I don't believe in them so none of my threads or posts will ever be an advertisement.
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  • Profile picture of the author hogeyman3
    Thank you for this post. I have a start up web agency and I would get people interested and then they would never respond. I'm gonna start trying this out more and just be flat out honest with the people I'm calling. thanks so much!
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  • Profile picture of the author neuroscience
    I have found this tread very interesting and the twists and turns it's taken. The OP is very inspiring and should give struggling businesses (new and old) some light in the tunnel.

    Cold calling is hard, I get two pictures in my mind thinking of it. First is the guy digging for diamonds who gives up 1 feet from the motherload - you never know if your script just needs one more call to get the YES and the second picture/story is of the spanish/portuguese leader who burnt the ships when they landed in SA so there would be no return.

    I have time and time again tried to find easier and better ways to get the first client/customer, but for instant action/instant result - nothing so far has beaten cold calling. And most important, you get instant response and can adjust. The only thing I could see beating cold calling is F2F in instant action/response/result - but way harder and more expensive.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dave992
      400 calls in 3,5 hours?

      Wow, that's a pretty good number.
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  • Profile picture of the author tonejunkee
    Man, I have been searching for this thread for months. Just wanted to revive it for the sheer inspiration that it has brought.

    I *just* got off the phone with a hot-lead and set up the meeting for next week. I'm no rookie, but closing even the smallest new client leaves me feeling like a little kid that just got a new toy.

    I have a 100% success rate for closing at face-to-face meetings. It really comes down to trust. You SHOULD feel slightly scared when meeting a potential client for the first time. Look them in the eye and LISTEN. This is not a time for scripts, but real connections.

    My most difficult one ever was a guy that seemed really hard to please. When it came time to sign, he balked at the price. I then said "Tell me Jim, what do YOU think this should cost?" He was a bit suprised by this, but told me a lowball number. I said, DONE" and we revised the contract.

    It's all about speed folks. Don't get hung up on one dispute. If you really HATE being rejected, then reject THEM first. Eventually, you will find your absolute favorite clients and begin to "profile" all of these prospects. Seek out the easy ones.

    I love meetings where closing takes a back seat to the human connection. Just enjoying the conversation and even small talk. It's effortless. Timing is key. They are busy. Respect their time. The deal is done and the conversation turns to the weather, sports, whatever, before leaving. Make the decision that this will be a pleasant encounter. Refuse to be offended, anxious or nervous. Relax.

    Make a connection.

    -----------------

    Let me just add that sales really demands you be in top form.

    Walk 30 minutes every morning (rain, shine or snow). This is bare minimum exercise you ABSOLUTELY MUST do. Works wonders for attitude and mental clarity as well as overall well being
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    • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
      Originally Posted by tonejunkee View Post

      Let me just add that sales really demands you be in top form.

      Walk 30 minutes every morning (rain, shine or snow). This is bare minimum exercise you ABSOLUTELY MUST do. Works wonders for attitude and mental clarity as well as overall well being
      Better still, walk from business to business. You'll get fresh air, exercise and possibly experience sales, as well. At worst, you'll get to talk to some business owners and learn some things you didn't know before.

      The fresh air, exercise and change in surroundings, will give you a better attitude. Make it fun and you'll be chomping at the bit to get out there and do it again.

      P.S. Be aware that your new active lifestyle, will also keep you off the forum, so you won't have time to bump old threads. A sacrifice we'll all just have to live with.
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  • Profile picture of the author scajo
    I would like to Thank you, shadow. Really inspiring thread and I saved it into my bookmarks on the phone. So whenever I want some inspiration, I'll go here and read it over again!!

    Thank you!
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  • Profile picture of the author G9M Blake
    Shadow, I wanted to thank you for this post. This has inspired me to start my own cold calling campaign, hire someone to do the initial calling and then transfer the calls to me when they get any interest or questions. Thanks again!
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  • Profile picture of the author Zodiax
    So you mean to tell me I can call random numbers and makes sales?

    I did that selling alarm systems b2c for a week nonstop from 10 to 9. No sales and got cursed out.

    Def not a noob proof easy quick fix
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    • Profile picture of the author animal44
      Originally Posted by Zodiax View Post

      So you mean to tell me I can call random numbers and makes sales?

      I did that selling alarm systems b2c for a week nonstop from 10 to 9. No sales and got cursed out.

      Def not a noob proof easy quick fix
      Yep. There's 7 billion people on the planet. Phone enough of them and you're bound to sell something... Just ignore the 6.9 billion who don't want to know...
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      • Profile picture of the author Zodiax
        Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

        Yep. There's 7 billion people on the planet. Phone enough of them and you're bound to sell something... Just ignore the 6.9 billion who don't want to know...
        The ROI for that was too low. A measly $300 sale.

        I wouldn't call unless it was huge ticket in the thousands range, or recurring at $99 minimum.

        And even that is pushing it.

        Also, B2C sucks. B2B is a lot of fun
        Signature

        'I hated every minute of training, but I said, 'Don't quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion'
        -Muhammad Ali

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  • Profile picture of the author theseomaster
    Love your message! Nothing beats consistency and simplicity! Business owners dont want to hear a long boring pitch, be concise and to the point and you'll have more results! Cheers!
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  • Profile picture of the author TwoPointZero
    I know this is from a few years ago but I wanted to thank you for taking the time to post this. This and a few other posts like it have made me decide to try cold calling for my web design business. I have adapted a script similar to the one you listed and am going to try the transfer method like you have to keep the phone representative on the phone for a lower amount of time and have them transfer interested people to me to do the selling. Thanks!
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