Old School Vs New School selling.

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I've studied some the best sales training out there lately from people like Brian Tracy's 21st century sales training, Grant Cordone stuff on closing, Jordan Belforts stuff, Mike Brooks scripts and have picked up som truly great things, but the focus is mainly on what happened when you get the customer on the phone or in person to sell to them.

And on the other end, more about the whole game of lead gen, prospecting, getting the right people in the company from Aaron Ross and Brian Kuerzberger, but because they work in corporate circles where a hard-core closer like Grant Cordone would probably have to change his style because they're people who refuse to supplicate to the sale under-pressure like an average individual on a car lot. There isn't a lot on closing, like the others with those two guys.

But one guy who has impressed me most is Jeffey Gitomer, because he's a guy that most talks about the whole process of sales beyond just what happens when you get infront of the person, which is what most of the other teach primary. He teaches how to sell today in today's world without chucking out all the older stuff that still works and is essential. But he's not afraid to adapt to the realities of selling today. Most are stuck in a time warp.

And the advice people get of that kind is going to get them stuck at mediocre, never achieving the astounding success possible. I've even seen people practising Jordan's Belfort's stuff, which is great to teach your closers, and applying it on just cold people who have never heard of them and the sales figures, even by good sales people, are just piss poor. Before the internet, most people would buy of the phone from even companies they'd never heard of simply because they could go online and do due dillegence. But a lot sell like that even today.

I'm not going to sell this guy anymore. I want to share on thing. If lights go on for you, then I've advice checking out his other stuff, because this guy is a master, and can give you a perspective on selling in today's world that I haven't gotten from anyone else. And it's based on reality.

Jeffrey Gitomer: How to sell in a new world and win - YouTube
#offline marketing #school #selling
  • Thanks - some good info there....it is so true that social media has changed many things in this world.

    This guy does not come across like a jerk like some of these so called super salesmen do IMHO
    • [1] reply
    • I've read Gitomer's Little Red Book Of Selling and The Sales Bible. Good basic marketing advice from a good writer.

      And Gitomer has lots of awards, for speaking, and book sales. He's not a salesman. Maybe he never was. Wikipedia has a nice page on him, but no sales experience listed. I'd love to know his sales experience.

      When I read a sales book, I want to know what the author sold. If you are a speaker...that sells books, it should be based on some serious sales experience. Otherwise, you are just rewriting other people's books.

      But.....at least he isn't teaching something that can't work. And he is a good writer, and speaker.
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  • So not having a history of selling pots and pans door to door somewhere or used cars, means he's a fraud.

    There's some videos about where he talks about sale with a company selling training and the deal was worth a million.

    The guy has sold five million worth of books, has a huge following, work with major companies around the world training their teams.

    It's incredible to try to claim the guy is just some nobody regurgitating other people's advice. To get where he is don't you need to be able to see yourself, your ideas, products and services?

    I know he's criticised Glengarry Glenross and that whole macho old schools sales things which would offend some people who think selling is this specific set thing confined to obtaining a one of transaction from someone.

    I like Gitomer's concept of it in the vid. It's about being able to get your thoughts and ideas out there to people in a compelling way.

    Shake my head sometimes.
  • Claude, you're trying to do what this guy did. Personally brand yourself, create info products, get out there as a speaker, use social media and youtube. You're actually a practitioner. Is that not selling to you?


    This guy is far more successful than you, and you knock him. Why?

    So now me trying to steer people to a good resource, who teaches an approach to their careers in business that is solid, that is based way more than on just 'making the sale', but a way of doing selling that goes beyond that, kind of like the philosophical aspects of Harry Brown, as well though, techniques and concrete things that work.


    We've butted heads before on this forum. I know your outlook. I know it's different to mine. I know you criticism is often point my way indirectly as one of the people who are afraid to sell, am always messing with my website or branding, foolish for not going for the 'one call close' and wasting time taking more than one touch, everything that's anathema to you because it not ideal selling vacuum cleaners.

    But I'm foolish or clueless. I've done my fair share or door to door selling for companies and for my own.

    Jeffrey Gitomer's a highly successful trainer. I don't recommend him lightly as some wet behind the ears newbie. But in this day and age a door to door sales man or a cold caller are like Jehovers witnesses, people hate them. And the close rates are very poor, and some of the lowest you can get.

    And things have advanced. But many here are still getting taught the same old BS.
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    • During a lifetime in the sales game you will probably be presented with 101 people all professing to be the best at what they do, and thought shall follow my path to riches.

      The key is not really to follow one but to be open and to take in as much as you can from those people who inspire you and from that mold your own best plan of attack and that will be different for each and every person.

      The people one chooses to follow may not be the same as another and really there is no right or wrong in any method given that people can gain measurable / positive results.
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    • This is exactly what I thought when I first read Claude's response. It sounded like Claude was drinking some serious haterade. I have 3 of Claude's books & 2 of JG's. So, I'm a fan of both.

      But then, then it dawned on me that Claude is actually displaying an Alpha tendency that it takes to get to JG's level. You have to think you're the best before you make it there. You have to see where the "successful" people are putting out what you think is garbage, so that you can be the clean up man/woman.

      So, it's actually good to see Claude calling out someone who has a "proven track record". What top sales person doesn't think they are the best?
    • Underground in Bold, me not.
      Claude, you're trying to do what this guy did. Personally brand yourself, create info products, get out there as a speaker, use social media and youtube. You're actually a practitioner. Is that not selling to you?

      First, I suppose I'm branding myself. But it isn't conscious. Nobody here is a prospect for me. Perhaps the main reason I post here, is that I have the freedom to not worry about what client's might think. None of them are here. This is how I relax.

      But your point about "Is selling lots of books, not selling?' And it's a very valid point. It is selling. But if I am a reader of the book, I'd like to read something that came from the author, not rehashed feel good bromides. I'm talking about the content of the book, not the number of books sold.


      This guy is far more successful than you, and you knock him. Why?

      You suspect a motive that doesn't exist. I'm glad people are successful. And his books aren't completely worthless. But they aren't based on experience.

      Maybe 25 years ago, I decided to become a speaker. Really. But what I hated was listening to sales speakers that have never sold anything but books. Their contend was shallow. I disliked books on selling, by non-salespeople. I wanted to have my content be substantial, tested, proven, and so, I started testing everything I was doing, improving it along the way.

      I didn't want to be something I disliked,which was someone who taught something they did not know.

      And things have advanced. But many here are still getting taught the same old BS.

      That's "Tested and proven BS" to you. And I'm still selling today. Real sales from real clients. The reason there are people that still use old school sales methods, is because they work. Granted, if you sound like a 1950's used car salesman, you may not get too far...consumers are smarter now. More educated.

      Added later; Frankly, I forgot what thread we were on. Some sales methods are far more palatable than others.
      Gitomer (as well as most sales authors) give the methods that feel good, make sense, and sound great from a stage.
      It's not that it doesn't work, it's that it's baby food. In fact, one reason he sells far more books than I do, is that his books appeal to a far wider crowd. You don't even have to be in sales to like his books. And the most successful seminars are like that as well. They are basic, and they feel so very good. My mistake (one of many) is that my books give advanced skills. If you read my reviews on Amazon, you see that they are from experienced salespeople.

      The problem is, there are far more new salespeople, average salespeople, than advanced salespeople. I'm almost done with my next book Selling Essentials. It is written for the new guy, It will read much more like a standard sales book. And it's written for the sole purpose of selling speaking gigs, just like Gitomer's books. Just like nearly all current sales books. Probably, I'm a little late to the game.

      Do you think Gittomer or Tom Hopkins sell to clients, just like they do in their books? They don't. My two actual sales books give exactly how I sell in real life. The same phraseology, the same methods. And, to be honest, it can be a bit jarring to a new salesperson.

      Added later later; Now you've done it. Now, I have to go back into my library and take another look at The Sales Bible. I'm going off memory here. It would be really embarrassing, if I was confusing this book, with another.
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  • Claude, you're continuing with the idea this guy doesn't sell in real life. Of course he does. He's a respected corporate sales trainer. Plus sells himself well on the world stage.

    He sells to big clients. I love Grant Cardone's 10x stuff and his enthusiasm. But for the types I need to cultivate long term- professional relationships with, I couldn't hire people in my business who would be constantly closing and emailing and being aggressive, because they're not the people who would tolerate that.

    You did a wiki search and found no story about selling, it doesn't mean he only sells gullibles, clueless fools like me who don't know better like you are trying to paint.

    The man sells corporate sales training among other things. He's a great success. He teaches an approach that's not for everyone, but for the people I will be targeting, I'd hire a likeable, non-aggressive guy who displays integrity and honesty like Gitomer and is a proven success, selling contracts worth millions than a hard-core old school commission guy who only cares about making a few sales a week to get by and pay the bills.

    He's way beyond that. If if wasn't me who posted this I doubt you'd be inclined to try to make this case.

    You, personally didn't find a story of early toil and sweat in the trenches from a quick search? And so he's a snake oil man or just a seminar seat seller.

    And you're pulling rank on to try to point that out?

    The guy has no real world experience or the tradional glengarryglen ross style of desperate men who had to do everything they could to make a few sales to keep their job and mortgage and a guy who learned to actually sell something that made him a fortune and goes beyond just 'closing a sale'.

    Come on. Sales is bigger than that. Of course this guy has real world experience. Success just doesn't just magically happen to anyone. Jeffrey is one of those people who teach real hard work and dedication, and it's how he got there. He had to sell.
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    • Underground in Bold . Me not

      Claude, you're continuing with the idea this guy doesn't sell in real life. Of course he does. He's a respected corporate sales trainer. Plus sells himself well on the world stage.

      Yup. That's selling. In fact, pretty advanced selling. Which is not what he is teaching in his books. Again, this is from memory. So there may be more to his books than what I remember.

      He sells to big clients. I love Grant Cardone's 10x stuff and his enthusiasm. But for the types I need to cultivate long term- professional relationships with, I couldn't hire people in my business who would be constantly closing and emailing and being aggressive, because they're not the people who would tolerate that.

      Yes. You are more of a farmer, cultivating crops. I'm more of a hunter. Just two different approaches. Yours is ultimately more successful. Mine is harder. And again, Grant Cardone, Jeffery Gitomer, and Tom Hopkins...don't sell to large corporate clients, the way they teach in their books.

      You did a wiki search and found no story about selling, it doesn't mean he only sells gullibles, clueless fools like me who don't know better like you are trying to paint.

      No. He sells to people who embrace his approach, as outlined in his books. A far more socially palatable idea of selling. And these ideas have a much wider acceptance...a much broader audience.

      The man sells corporate sales training among other things. He's a great success. He teaches an approach that's not for everyone, but for the people I will be targeting, I'd hire a likable, non-aggressive guy who displays integrity and honesty like Gitomer and is a proven success, selling contracts worth millions than a hard-core old school commission guy who only cares about making a few sales a week to get by and pay the bills.
      I believe you.

      He's way beyond that. If if wasn't me who posted this I doubt you'd be inclined to try to make this case.

      You are wrong. For some reason, you think I have a negative opinion about you. I promise you, I don't...except you keep reminding me, that you think I don't respect your opinion. And that's not true.

      You, personally didn't find a story of early toil and sweat in the trenches from a quick search? And so he's a snake oil man or just a seminar seat seller.
      No. It means I can't find any real sales experience beyond teaching others how to sell.

      And you're pulling rank on to try to point that out?

      No. And truthfully, I don't really understand that question.

      The guy has no real world experience or the tradional glengarryglen ross style of desperate men who had to do everything they could to make a few sales to keep their job and mortgage and a guy who learned to actually sell something that made him a fortune and goes beyond just 'closing a sale'.

      Your picture of what I do or teach is very very wrong.

      Come on. Sales is bigger than that. Of course this guy has real world experience. Success just doesn't just magically happen to anyone. Jeffrey is one of those people who teach real hard work and dedication, and it's how he got there. He had to sell.

      He does teach real hard work and dedication. Although not skills, they are very helpful.

      I hope you have a good Easter. I'm spending it, arguing with a guy who can't take "We agree" for an answer.
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  • Old school selling is still in practise today. Bring in new recruits to a sales office, have a dynamic positive sales manager pump everyone up about earnings and attitude, learn your scripts lie a robot and then get out in the field, and then at the end of the day if you made a few sales you 'ring the bell' explain in front of everyone how you did, everyone cheers. That was my daily experience selling door to door.

    Same with telemarketers these days. To do the job the way they'll train you, you absolutely have to give up any concern about pissing the other person off, encroaching on their time, not taking no for and answer, again sounding like a robot, and generally being someone the recipient despises.


    My whole point of sharing the video was to say you don't have to sell that way. There's successful people doing it far better and without compromising themselves.

    I already said Gitomer embodies the old school values. He's not claiming to have invented a new way. He's pointing out how and why things have changed.

    And is actually someone who has adapted, is using those new ways, and is a highly successful person.
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    • Not in my room, not in ANY room that wants to make it past the
      two, three year ( appx standard ) lifespan.

      I'm guessing that you did not mean to be insulting - but you should know.
      You just insulted me, my chosen profession and a entire industry.
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  • The kind of people accusing me of falling under the spell of a cult leader are the kind of people who are, in fact, most susceptible to following people based on their guru status or personality, rather than being able to listen to what is being said and see if there is any truth in it, regardless of who's saying it. They are legion. And I forget not everyone would listen to this video listening to the important bits and in an intelligent fashion to see if the content and facts being presented made sense, so I'll point them out here for those who didn't.

    If people want to discuss there merits or trash them, then fine, but I won't be wasting time with superfluous bs, from people who can't see the truth when it's right there in front of them.

    1. If you don't believe in what you are doing and you don't have the right attitude... your only going to be as good that moment is, your not going to have the devotion to the product or process or service.

    [Many people are into to get rich quick or for their own aims, they don't care about what their selling or go beyond that. Then ask themselves why the struggle. There's not for real. Not credible. Not likeable, not genuine. And provide no value. They want to take. I don't care who is pointing that out. I'm not spreading the gospel about Jeffrey Gitomer hoping people start worshipping him personally as the sales god of all sales gods. That was the last consideration on my mind, but the first on people like Eccj's. And I know why.]


    2. With the advent of the internet, social media, apps, and mobile purchasing the whole sales world has changed.

    [Who wants to the contest the truth of that statement?]


    3. You need to be thinking how you can adapt and adopt to the change, because then you have a chance at it.

    4. A shift from satisfaction to loyalty. The goal is to get them to become a repeat buyer and refer you. It doesn't mean they're not going to complain. But if they are loyal, it means you've one in the integrity battle, the value battle, and the quality battle and they'll do business with me again.

    [Do you think the average budding sales person here who wants to sell their services has the faintest idea that are even supposed to fighting a battle on those fronts? That the even think beyond their opener, a few superficial questions and some lame proposition the other person has heard hundreds of times before? No, I'll tell you right now after seeing hundreds of people here try to sell stuff, they have no idea. They don't think beyond the end of their noses.]

    5. Become the brand. Sales people think they live in the bubble world or this vacuum, hidden and unknown. When in fact when you come to my office, you're going to google me, your going to google my company, and you're gonna find out stuff about me. Do you think I'm not going to Google you?

    [You might make a sale or 2 here and then phoning a complete stranger out of the blue who has never heard of you, like most do here, but you won't have a successful business for long. There's so much great pre-selling and branding that can be done today, and you better be expected you and what you offer and you company is going to be check out. Or you're just being foolish]

    6. What is your image, what is your google image and what is your social image. Those 3 images make up the sales person. The sales person can no longer hide behind anything. They complete expose themselves immediately.

    [This is the reality. Like it or not. You need to be visible in your market place. Be found. Have solid material and show you are legitimate. Because many will be checking and if you don't have them and you're obsure, you're just ''Brian Richards with Utah Marketing and Web design services, maybe with some poorly constructed and bare website with a few cheesy sales features, you'll be fighting for scraps.]

    7. They're busy at home watching television when they should be building their brand. You should invest a certain amount of hours in yourself and you development each week.

    [Laziness. Mediocrity. Self-serving. Unwilling to bust their, go all out, putting all the extra effort and work to make it happen. They're still stuck in their warp, and I can bet you they aren't seeing consistent growth and revenues, and they don't even know they should be doing all this today and how their customers are already expecting it.

    8. I want to do business with someone that I like, someone I believe and someone I have confidence in, and then develop some trust. If I don't like you, I don't care who you are. If you don't sell me on you, why would I even listen to what you have to say? Unless I get the impression this person has some character and some value.

    Jeffrey matters only to the point that he practises what he preaches and is very successful.

    Those points above are all true. People can contest them. It's up to them. I posted in case there was other people who might be able to listen to the content and get some benefit out of those concepts and improve the way the go about things.

    I didn't think I'd have to spell things out.
  • Selling has never changed.... Old school? New school? The mediums have changed only. The fundamental selling principles are timeless and the basics hot buttons have never changed.


    Trends change, tastes and fashions come and go, but fundamental sales principles are timeless, endure, and transcend all times.


    Ad copy is just an old school sales pitch on a web page.


    Same social proof, same yes questions, same calls to action, same guarantee's and bonuses... same lead ins and loss leaders... timeless. None of these things are new.


    "Funneling" wasn't just born yesterday either.
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  • I think this thread title might really be about high pressure versus consultative selling.

    Given my personality type, I think is sales nothing more than a presentation, or conversation(s) that
    gives me enough information to make a decision to buy or not buy. It also involves listening enough
    to me, and knowing your product or service enough to tell me to chose A, B, or C if I am having a tough time deciding which is best. (I may not remember the three of twenty services, benefits, or features that make
    one choice the best for my business.)

    At one of my first jobs, I had a manager whose mantra was that the customer is always right.

    It took a while - maybe people have become ruder - but years later I made the distinction
    that there is a line people can cross to where they are so rude, or a scammer, that they
    no longer deserve to hold the title of customer.

    The same is true for sales people. They are either worthy of holding the title of salesperson,
    or they are a jerk, or worse. (I'm not writing this as eloquently as I wish. Time for bed.)

    Dan
  • Thanks for sharing this awesome information....
  • Ok, the medium IS what makes the sales environment different today.


    I should have named this thread mediocre selling VS big league selling.

    Because if you're not availing of every advantage at your disposal to get yourself known in your market place, seen, trusted, doing what Ozi outlined, and you are not moving with the times as far as buyers habits are concerned and how they buy differently, then prepare to never get really successful and wealthy.

    Prepare to stay like at the level that the sales people Alec Baldwin is letting loose on in that seen in the film were at. Using low-grade techniques and just scraping by.


    Sales is not just sales. There's sales that will have you just making a few dollars above payroll and other expenses each month and then there is major success and company growth and increasing wealth.

    And there also a thing call buying, as well as selling. And people's reason's for buying are much stronger than your sales techniques. There's more choices for the buyer, more competition for you. Particularly if you are selling commodities.

    You want to get 1 out of every 1-200 calls bite? Then carry on being obscure, unknown, phoning up out of the blue, using techniques most people hate and hear every day.

    You want to real grow and expand your company, achieve real lasting and sustainable success then you better step up and be doing everything outlined in the vid in some fashion.

    And the most success people are doing that already and it's speaks for itself. It's clear to observe what the people who make a living with sales are doing compared to the masters who have built something beyond that and are wealthy and/or secure

    So many are comparing their current level to where they started from, scared and apprehensive but toiled away and learnt if they put in the grunt work each day they could make a living and get some customers. That's fine if they want to stay there.

    But they ain't comparing where they are to where they could be and the success they could be experiencing, or they'd be constantly open to knew ideas that could help them get their instead of being closed to them and thinking they know all there is to know.
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    • Most professional sales people work for other people rather than for themselves because they realise the complexity of making profits and guiding a company into profit are in someways distinct from sales.

      Many marketers would have business owners believe that their best efforts should be generated towards marketing as if you can increase the number of clients and increase their spend then you can generate more profits.

      Often the reality is that the sales and marketing needs to be tempered with the cold hard reality of economic management and those that can manage both are the ones that generally succeed and grow.

      Most people in business have never been through extended periods of recession or worse still depression.

      There is a mentality that there will always be expansion but tis is not always true.

      Surviving when a market is contracting is when sales people really earn their keep.

      Knowing and utilising the skills of negotiation and also getting the support from management in regards to the necessity to maintain margins whilst also understanding the sometimes critical aspect of maintaining cash-flow is something that the dabblers in business can only observe and comment on rather that offer qualified advice.

      The longer term business operators understand that there are usually sustained periods of hardship where your sales skills and management skills are refined and hardened followed by periods of "easy money" that used to last for longer periods where the qualified survivors amongst us would seriously capitalise on their acquired abilities.

      The difficulties in today's markets is to adapt quickly and be very responsive to market pressures.

      Lean businesses who have mastered the art of waste elimination coupled with a supreme understanding of consolers needs are the one's that will survive to prosper and are already prospering from upswings that most people are "late to the party" discover after the fact.

      We always had a laugh with the real estate agents who killed it whether it was good or bad. They understood the "Real Estate Diet"....

      ...save when you've got....

      ....buy when it's depressed...

      ...sell when it's good.

      The bad ones spent when it was good.

      Some of the experienced sales people here can testify how they've spent when it was good and regretted later...

      They are the good one's....

      The bad ones end up on the end of petrol bowsers or filling bags...if they are lucky.

      Really unlucky ones go bankrupt and then re-birth as sales gurus...



  • There is seriously no offense here in saying this Underground. I would like to think we have mutual respect, however; didn't you just tell me in another thread that most of the stuff you are sharing here is from things you have studied from others but are not yet implementing successfully?


    I don't think that not learning EVERYTHING is limiting yourself. Some people are crippled by too much learning and too many options, and not enough parameters.


    I think that if your clients are the kind who don't respond to cold calls, then all you have to learn is what YOUR clients respond to. Nothing more, nothing less.


    It is better to be a master of one trade than a jack of them all and a master of none.


    It's better to know ONE simple thing REALLY WELL, that gets you results, than a hundreds things that you don't really OWN your understanding of, and not being a master at any of them.


    Anything that is scalable has "MASSIVE WEALTH" potential.


    Nothing is scalable until you OWN that one system though.


    I say that whatever you do, FOCUS on that one thing and master it.


    The tiny stiletto heel of a 90 pound woman's shoe will break the ground open before the wide foot of a 2000 pound elephant will. You could put all FOUR of his feet together, and that tiny womans heel would still break the ground faster.


    There is power in singular focus.
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    • I'd missed your post the first time around, and then after I re-read the rest of the replies realized you'd talked about only the medium changing to, and thought I'd get a defensive response.


      John, i've sold at the basic level most people teach. I've gone on a got thousands of over £10,000's worth of work in a week just knocking doors with a simple pitch for someone else.

      And for years I've studied the difference between those who sell and make a fortune, and those who scratch around and never really build wealth.

      The proof is overwhelming. Objectively. It doesn't matter whether I've personally done it. Claude has. Ozi has. Micheal has. Jeffrey Gitomer has. Jordan Belfort has. Iamnameless has. Grant Cordone has.

      I haven't yet, personally closed at £25,000 sale yet. I have to find the best methods to do that and find professionals with the consummate level of experience today that because I haven't got the luxury of years of learning to sell at that level.

      But, there's certain things rich, wealthy people do in their selling process, the broke and struggling don't do.

      That process is clear, and it's identifiable and it's true whether I've personally achieve that yet.

      I'm currently beset with infuriating delays before I can even get in my case. But give me a month or so, and if the biggest thing here is whether I've done it myself, then I'll prove that.

      But it's not. Bigger and better people than me have proved it for all to see if you only look.

      Are you a millionaire John. Are you wealthy?

      John, the strength of a winning sales process is the return it generates financial. The rest is pointless.

      It's not just sales knowledge and knowledge of scripts. There's far more involved. And the proof of whether a sales processes works or not is the level of success and financial return it gets, which is a some total of lots of different elements that are it's constituents. The rest is noise.

      I know it's a thing here for people to promote themselves and try to appear experts. I'm not one. And if I ever do become one I could only say that at the end of my life. I don't care for it.

      I'm not posting stuff to try to appear and expert, bolster my position or sell stuff.


      A lot of people here receive terrible advice on a consistent basis.

      All I care about it sharing stuff that might go some way to giving them a few ideas to implement that will make their business more successful.


      I'm not trying to play a big shot, or mention how great my own sales career was. I'm pointing out to others successes and how they don things. And there's more than enough proof there.
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  • Personally when Underground comes back saying this all worked for him, I am going to be the first to celebrate his success. Im sorry if these conversations go into defensive mode at times, and end up sounding like a bunch of bragging or whatever. That is not the intention.
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    • [1] reply
    • Celebration is what it's about.

      When someone's doing it tough it is wonderful to hear of success.

      Know that there are people who celebrate success and really feel great when someone benefits from an unconditional sharing of knowledge.

      When it is tough realise that people who provide advise fall into two categories...people who say it like it is and those that have an intuition but "don't know '

      Listen....

      ....and surely apply your own knowledge to the advisor's suggestions but be wary of "don't knows" ....

      ....as why would you trust advice from someone who provides an anecdote or two word answer without real contemplation.
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  • Something can happen in life that takes a fortune away,
    but it does not take away the expertise.

    It is about finding what works for your personality and your business.

    It is about multiple sales and marketing and advertising systems in place.
    Never depend upon one source.

    There is a very successful furniture retailer in my State of Colorado. He has
    retired from retailing and manufacturing furniture at least five times ( he gets
    back in because he loves it), and has been used as a model in colleges here
    since the 70's.

    There used to be two major daily newspapers here. He used to advertise
    a ton in both papers. With the rise of the internet and printing costs, the
    newspapers worked a deal to use the same printing facilities and so on.
    As is typical when that happens, advertising rates shot up.

    The furniture retailer decided he did not need them and their high rates.
    After a while his sales went down enough and the newspapers missed
    his ad revenues, so they struck a deal that worked for all of them.

    The point is that that one constant system of advertising was pretty
    significant to his business. His company is also all over TV, the internet,
    and huge stores throughout the state. I'm sure he serves parts of Utah,
    Wyoming, Nebraska and Oklahoma as well.

    >>>>>

    I think a great resource for finding your style:

    How To Fascinate | Sally Hogshead
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
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    • That's a good resource.

      Expertise themselves have no value if they are not being use to their highest and best use.

      Most here are locked into one form of customer acquisition to the exclusion of all else or taught that. Mostly telemarketing here, which I'm not knocking. But I agree you need a mix.



      You need to cold call on the phone and in person. Use email effectively to reduce work load and dead time. Network. Advertise. Create content. Be active on social media, create a web presence. And not excuse these things away as being to expensive and taking months to make a return.

      And have a system where you are going and getting business and setting it up so they also here of you from other means and seek you out.

      If you're ambition and hungry and failure is not an option you'd be doing all these things instead staying in your comfort zone and doing one or two.

      That was the whole point of why I started this thread. The old way of selling pre-internet was cold calling and door to door. Many still default solely to that. I've seen it in nearly every WSO I've ever read. I see it daily on the forum.

      But, and I realize I'm in a very small minority here with this desire, if your business is bigger than just you or you truly want to make a massive impact in your market place and achieve the biggest possible financial returns, you must be doing all those things and taking advantage of every opportunity to sell yourself and get known, get people finding out about you.

      You can and should think bigger than how to sell a few mobile sites a week. Well, you don't have to. But the difficulty overnight consultants and people selling stuff straight from WSO's with no presence face is just going to get harder and harder. More calls, more work, less results, more struggle. The opposite of what a sane person should be seeking.


      I've yet to see one person by some hyped-up WSO, with some silly little website, and a simple pitch and really clean up like professional companies in the same space doing all the things above and using the web to their advantage.


      They're your competitors and you want to go out and think you can compete without being set up professionally and having certain fundamentals in place that your customers will expect, as outlined in the video.

      Truly pitiful for someone to be flamed on a thread for pointing that out, even on a biz-opp forum. I really didn't think it would be so above most people's ambition level to aspire to that and want to do everything they can to better sell their services.

      But it's well worth seeing the whole picture rather than getting stuck with the blinkers on and limit the ways you can attract new customers.
  • @ Underground


    I wasn't accusing you of trying to present yourself as an expert... I was responding to something general you said that isn't always true, and advising you that you don't REALLY know that it all works until you have done it all. I only talk about stuff I have done... I understand though that in this culture it is customary for people to teach things they haven't done, but what happens is that it becomes like the ear phone game. Slowly but surely concentrated truth is watered down and lost, being diluted more by every second hand sharing of the knowledge.


    That's just my take. Please view it objectively.


    Calling people "tools" indicates to me that someone is having a rough day. Maybe I'm wrong.
  • It would be true in general that those that put in more usually gain better outcomes in most of lifes endeavors.

    this part could probably be successful sales people do over unsuccessful sales people

    is a little different in that creating wealth and selling do not really match or go hand in hand in some cases, and by that you can have a successful sales person making big sales and giving the appearance of wealth, when mostly their lifestyle consumes any given gains and if the ice castle were to melt they would have nothing but a pile of debt. these people are everywhere in all walks of life and are often known as the great pretenders

    Yet you can have an average sales person who is able to amass a small fortune over a period of time and often these people do not stand out.

    Yes earning a bigger amount would make it easier to amass wealth, but it is what you do with the money you earn over and above the amount alone that will create your wealth.

    Sounds like your on the right path with your sales and I wish you every success.
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    • Thank you. You've hit the nail on the head.

      To many, sales is removed from the idea of wealth. But if your focus is on building real wealth and assets you have to look selling being a part of that, not the be all and end all.

      Not just confined to making a sale on the phone call, but your whole strategy, your long-term focus and deep elements of many other facets of a successful business.


      I can never get why some people would go into business on a market stall selling fruit and veg for £1 and making 50 a sale and having an massive limitation on their earning potential.

      Yes, they can sell, and bring people their stall and make them buy more with their patter, but they haven't created a structure where there selling skills can build real wealth and security for them.

      There's nothing noble in that. To me, it's not very intelligent. If you have real sales skills, then you owe it to yourself to look for the best ways to employ them to bring you real success. Anything less than that is lazy and a waste.

      Selling is a very broad topic and area that touched on way more than just selling a product or service and getting a yes from a customer, but is one part of a wider chain of things.

      A narrow, fixed, unmoving focus idea of sales benefits no-one.

      Thanks again.
  • All I've been seeing in this thread is just a bunch of arguing about what works and what doesn't and why you should do this or that a certain way.
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    • Well fix that problem them. Apply some intelligence to what you read and a bit of thought for what was said.

      Just blame others that your simply focusing on the pointless stuff.


      Even if you took the time to read how Ozi does business and how he sells to people how they want to be sold, and build rapport first that makes his closes far more powerful, or how professionals make things conversation so the other person never feels they are being gamed, or the reasons for why it's important to adapt and adopt certain principles in what you do to match how things are today, to make sure your prepared when people do due diligence on you. Or the talk about making sure aiming your sales skills in the right direction and they are part of complete system that will bring you the biggest pay-off.

      If you were discerning you'd skip the noise and seek out the value.


      If you want to get anything out of this place, where 80% are chasing moronic schemes for wealth and easy money and don't even know what it means to provide a customer with real value others aren't doing, then you better learn to discern more carefully.
  • I've tested many times in my various attempts to find the right business, market, product and service that I could feel proud and fulfilled in going into business with over the last few years, virtually every concept, approach, script that has been heralded here as THE solution.

    A lot of trial and error. Successes and failures. But most of the methods and advice are woefully inept by themselves and aren't enough to run a successful enterprise. But I know this, even in times where I've had to go back to the drawing board I've created business and products better than most people here offer. And then months back, I'd got some funding on a business plan I'd submitted where I intended to run a small little video production company on the idea that I'd offer half day and full day shoots where I'd interview them on 5 to 10 key points and create a 5 or 10 part video series.

    I really thought this could get me some clients. It was quashed in 5 minutes when a professional presenter told me I'd be hard pressed to be able to get that volume of material. It wasn't a goer.

    So I focused on a much bigger plan that I'd had intentions of getting to in the future. A much bigger plan that has involved and hell of a lot of work, and been beset with difficulties and now I've had to move to plan see to get the investment capital to make things work.


    But where I'm headed with the new venture is not my first foray into selling. Of course it isn't. I studied and applied many different things up to this point. And worked far harder and been for more committed to creating a real, sustainable, long term business than I've observed in a lot of other people here.

    I know from experience there are far better ways to generate leads and response then most people use. Of course I do.


    But I'm rare. I'm in a position, not really through choice, but it's where I find myself, that my considerations and strategic objectives are far more complex and involved than most people here plodding along do what they do.

    If that comes across as arrogance and the reason for most people ire, then so be it. I hold you in the same contempt for being so self-serving and trying to sell crap to people and having no professional pride, ethics, ambition and drive to launch a business that makes a real difference and genuinely helps people beyond just making them money.
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    • Who are you even talking to Underground?
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  • Rarely have I ever encountered a situation like this. I did use to read the Anti-Warrior but felt he focused only on the bad stuff. I come here when stressed to learn a thing or two from the true experts.


    I seemed to have been sucked into the unseemly under-belly of this place in the last week simply for trying to post something helpful I would have found useful when starting out.


    Now I have a man who ripped of thousands of people joining in a host of other characters in some mad spectacle, trying to belittle me for having higher aspirations than selling junk for a living and using anything but the most basic, customer acquisition methods, and twisting everything I said into a bad light because he took exception to something that wasn't even aimed at him.

    You couldn't make it up.

    A man incredulous that I could even be serious about pointing out the crap that gets sold here:


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    Crooks.
    • [1] reply
  • Well this thread spiraled out of control.

    One of the reasons I don't partake in the conversation of sales threads. Too many variables, people stuck in their own ways, beliefs, etc.

    Underground, you mentioned mediocre selling vs. big league selling but I think that's all relative.

    Fortunately for us, sales provide us with a metric that isn't debateable and that is revenue.

    Big league selling, amateur selling, selling without really selling, consultative selling... low hanging fruit selling... in the end, how you sell doesn't matter, how much you sell does.

    Like I said in another thread, there is no one method. There is no one approach. In fact, the more you are able to change your approach depending on the situation and the personality on the receiving end, the better off you will be.

    Then again, I know nothing about sales, sales training, theory, best practices... I just make them and analyze what I do, where I mess up, what could have been done differently and that is the case whether the lead has been won or lost. If it's been won, I analyze what could have been done to get them to close faster, how I could have upsold but didn't, etc.

    Anyway... that's my 2 pennies.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
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    • Have you ever been working flat out on something and been exhausted and had situation turn into complete cluster ****s?

      I was hoping posting this thread I'd have a few laid back replies and some decent discussions.

      My whole point was lost in the madness of this place. The egos, the dogma's, the biases, the people trying to sell their products, the followers, the clueless all descended.

      My whole point was identical to yours. That there is not one set context of selling. There's many different ways.

      The main one here that often touted as the only one is telemarketing style. I'm simply saying there is more to it.
      • [1] reply
  • Setbacks? Lawdy, I got stories. They are frustrating, but you will become better because of them. All part of your 500 fights.

    Knockaround Guys 500 Street Fights - YouTube
  • I've read Gitomer's books, watched his videos in the past, even got his emails for a while. And though some of what he says sounds good, I also got the sense he was removed from reality. He's like Seth Godin. They're in the business of giving sound bytes meant to motivate and maybe make you think a bit.

    Ziglar, Cardone and others with their old school sales techniques and closes... some of the principles can still apply but the reason the tactics don't go over as well with modern day clients is because those techniques were never meant for selling much more than pots and pans and cars. That's not the way you'd go about selling a hundred thousand dollar contract to a company. Can you imagine? "What a shame... a CEO like you, with such a nice expensive suit, taking pride in your appearance as befits a man of your staus... using such cheap software in your company... what a shame."
    • [ 4 ] Thanks
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    • But here we are following them and a massive thread has ensued. I realized Gitomer's doing the whole personal subject-matter expert thing and content marketing.


      And he's doing it exceedingly well. What was said in the video is the reality today. Prospects on average research 6 companies online before doing business with someone. They will check out people's stuff online. We have a mind-boggling, completely illogical situation here where people are trying to adopt those very principles Gitomer is using, yet still trying to argue he's some fake or inferior salesman to the old guard, in the trenches veterans, or full of it. He sells himself and his ideas impeccably, and practises what he preaches.

      Would no one else want a social media and email list of hundreds of thousands to sell to? They really do prefer calling 500 a week to get through to a handful instead?


      If you're were on his list, you'll see how well he's branded himself across all media, built a global audience, sells to millions of people and has a very successful, long-running business. He does everything he says in the video.

      He's a far better salesman then anyone on this forum. But, even so, the whole point of posting the video was to try to balance the idea of selling on this forum against the way most people are doing it. A complete stranger calling another complete stranger with some non-differentiated service and having to work through hundreds of people to find one lead.


      It freaks me out, the cult mentality here, that from the evidence of this thread, is completely impervious to selling in any different kind of way then one that most people despise.
      • [1] reply
  • I missed the train for this thread and had to grab one of the last seats.

    So forgive me for not having a closer look at the other fine carriages filled with their words of wisdom.

    Anyway, here's what I tell clients-

    It really helps to be good at sales and persuasion.

    However, even if you are hopeless* at it- providing you have enough people to speak to...

    You should still be able to make enough sales.


    Steve


    P.S. * Hopeless - with a dash of effort becomes reasonable and with study and practise becomes good to excellent to outstanding.

    The one hurdle most people have to get over is - "It just isn't good to try and "sell" to people"

    They don't realise that we are all selling all of the time - in every conversation we have - because one way or the other we are trying to "sell" our views opinions and thoughts.
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    • You don't have to be a super, duper top salesman. You give your presentation in a professional manner, cover everything. Answer questions, let them decide. Why the need for the hard sell?
  • Everyone seems obsessed about acquiring 6,00,0000,000+ new customers every year.

    How about a business that can survive on a few and a couple of new ones every year is fine?

    Nice relaxed, no churn and burn method of doing business. Old school? New school? Common sense?
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    Old School Vs New School selling.

    I've studied some the best sales training out there lately from people like Brian Tracy's 21st century sales training, Grant Cordone stuff on closing, Jordan Belforts stuff, Mike Brooks scripts and have picked up som truly great things, but the focus is mainly on what happened when you get the customer on the phone or in person to sell to them. And on the other end, more about the whole game of lead gen, prospecting, getting the right people in the company from Aaron Ross and Brian Kuerzberger, but because they work in corporate circles where a hard-core closer like Grant Cordone would probably have to change his style because they're people who refuse to supplicate to the sale under-pressure like an average individual on a car lot. There isn't a lot on closing, like the others with those two guys.