Cold Calling - How many no's before you move on?

I would have to hear your pitch to fully answer. Anyone who said they could guess without knowing that would be just trying to hear themselves talk. Sales is a process. You have to have AIDA Attention, Interest, Desire, and Action.


After "desire" and before action I would also add "agreement", but usually that is supposed to be included under the umbrella of "desire".

AIDA is the classic formula, although people will try to rebrand it all kinds of ways.

Questions:


Are these people saying yes they will listen because you rebutted them into it, or because they were really interested? Are you getting any buying or interest signals that are telling you they are worth pitching before you proceed?


Are you asking them to take action without properly gauging their desire, sense of urgency, or sense of perceived value?


If you start asking for a close before their perceived value is high enough to blow your price away, then you are going to get a lot of No's. If you are not properly incorporating some things to increase their sense of urgency, then you are going to get a lot of "Maybe down the road", or "Let me get back to you on this..."


Urgency is when they HAVE to have "YOU", and they have to act NOW in order to get you.

What kinds of answers are you getting? No interest? Already have someone? Dont have the budget?

Simply too little details in the OP to give a precise answer , however, I would say to you; "good determination".


This is one of the reasons I encourage doing as close as possible to 100 dials per hour, because people who focus on conversion more than finding a truly interested prospects end up telling the story you are telling here most of the time.


It's easy to make 30 extra dials or so, barely talk to anyone except your true prospect, and then save your energy for when you are talking to someone truly interested, than it is to bang your head all day trying to close every suspect you come across, or rebut them into listening.


"Interest" is easier to work with.


Yes rebutting people into yeses works, but it often results in buyers remorse and you will KILL yourself trying to get a sale, and go home feeling like you got ran over by a truck or have been in a wrestling match all day. This is exactly what "would be" cold callers are afraid of, and PRECISELY the reason I encourage hi probability selling.


Not because I don't know different, but because I know that ESPECIALLY working from home, it is discouraging to get into the head butting thing... you wont last long if you don't see easy success fast.


If I were you I would just be dialing 100 numbers per hour, being nice to everyone and pressuring NO ONE... only stopping when I sense true interest, and giving ALL of my sales energy ONLY to those who express it.


For now, even hearing your 30 second elevator pitch would help us to help you more. Also, at what point are you breaking down? The close? The body of the pitch?


Sounds like you are getting past the greeting just fine, but your conversion to pitches is pretty high... if you are skilled enough at sales to take that all the way then it's great, but if you aren't then you will be spending most of your time in mental wrestling matches with people...


At first sight, it sounds like you may be rebutting them into listening initially, and you aren't disqualifying enough people fast enough.


It was explained to me like this; "There is a monkey with his hand stuck in a jar grasped around 5 peanuts.... there is a whole pile of peanuts 15 feet away but he cant get to them because he won't let go of the ones in the jar in order to free his hands."


Traditionally telemarketers are taught to never let go, and rebut the hell out of every person who comes on the phone.... That's why telemarketers generally hate their job.


If you don't see success fast enough , easy enough, or if you have to feel like a high pressure person all day every day...you are going to hate telemarketing.


If you just say hi and enjoy greeting people and ONLY PITCH WHERE THERE IS INTEREST, then you are going to have a REALLY good experience, good friendly conversations... and STILL get sales.


There are two ways to do it, and one is much easier on you. The other will wear you out, make you dread cold calling, and wont be any more effective in the long run.


Trust me, I'm old school, and NEW school, and have done it both ways plenty.


Some people are going to come on this thread and say to generate your leads differently, and that's all great, but it isn't relevant to your question. The kind of selling we are talking about here can be done from a phone book, even though YES, there are ways to have people contacting you first... You obviously don't have that kind of funnel working at the moment, so those kinds of points are mute, unless you have a few weeks, and some money to invest in reworking your lead acquisition strategy.

If so , then great. If not; then what we are talking about can be done from a phone book any day of the week, even TODAY.

I want to challenge you to spend two hours disqualifying the hell out of people (in a nice way) and make it your point to get them off the phone ASAP unless you can REALLY sense interest, then tell me how it was easier and made a difference.


Thank you for asking a great question Michael. Good going with the effort!


Hope this helps.


-JD


Ps. You WILL eventually get a sale through rebutting hard, but it will be a hard earned one...and it may be just as hard to keep the customer long term. People who want a lot of reassurance, usually KEEP wanting it... people who have to be initially pushed, tend to have to be dragged like a mule for miles down the road, later. People who demand every little explanation and argue with you..., don't tend to stop demanding them after the sale. You want to do business with people who wanted to do business with YOU.


Rebutting your ways to sales can be an effective thing, but making a strategy out of it for a beginner is hard even when you have a trainer over your shoulder pressuring you every minute, let alone doing it by yourself at home.

"I have a proven marketing process that has helped my clients increase more visits to their website, which means more customers, more sales, and regular repeat orders. I need to gather some information to see if we're a fit for each other."

This is generic. How about:

"I work with business owners and marketing executives who are disappointed with the low number of visitors to their website, frustrated with worse-than-expected revenue, and are eager for regular repeat orders from well-paying clients. But I don't suppose any of these are a concern for you?"

It's personalized this way. Rather than, "I need to ask a few questions to find out if..." you are asking an open-ended question that involves them.

Michael,


No problem.


Havent check out the pitch yet, but good job again for rebutting them into staying on the phone, it isn't the easiest way, but it does show determination on your part, and that you intend to make this work!


AIDA's first rules are "Attention, and Interest", if you want to follow classic sales advice, it starts with making sure those two are there before proceeding.


Rebuttals are for taking another shot at creating interest... if it still is not there after a rebut, then don't waste time pitching them. That is CLASSIC advice, not mine.

In other words;

If interest is not there, then you can try to create some with a rebut... but if it's still not, then there is no point in pitching without it.

Some advise 3 rebuts , but they all need to take place in the very beginning of the pitch. If you cant generate genuine interest in under a minute, it's time to let go and move on.


Will be back.

Indeed.


Again, it's not my advice, it is the classic advice. AIDA is classic for a reason. You will find it rebranded all kinds of ways but its the same basic principles.

Which brings me to another answer for you here:

You are creating an AGREEMENT in the beginning of the conversation with them, by telling them they have a choice whether to proceed or not, and then you say you start "pitching".

"Pitching" is what happens after interest has been established, but it seems you are pitching before you have established that.


In other words;


You are saying "I will tell you why I called, and then afterward you can tell me if you are interested in proceeding"... and they agree to THAT.


Then, you break the agreement you made with them in the first line, by continuing to pitch even after they have expressed that there is no reason to proceed.


I also don't hear where you are going back to confirm with them after the initial elevator pitch as to whether they are interested in proceeding or not. How you ask that question can be a factor, but you must have an indicator that they may want to proceed before doing so, or else 80% of your energy is wasted on kicking a dead horse.


I would just skip the whole first line, and say "Hi this is Michael with __________, hope you are doing well today? Great. "


"Bob, Thanks for taking my call, I know I probably caught you a bit off guard, so I will try to make this brief. The reason Im calling is because my company......"


(Be clear and concise about what you do, not vague)


I was just wondering if that is something you have ever given any thought to?


Or "I was just wondering if you could use any help in that area?"


Or "I was just wondering if you already had that or if it was something you were planning on doing in the future?"


If the answer is positive then say:


"Great, well like I said, I know I caught you off guard so I will try to keep it brief... right now , we are offering...."


Then proceed to pitch, because you have established that there is at least SOME degree of interest.


This whole process should take 30 seconds or so... if not, then move on and say a polite good bye and end with good, positive energy that will bleed into your next call. *Make every interaction proactively positive, and it will build your energy throughout the session instead of draining it. Ingratiate people to your energy, even if they aren't interested. It enriches your own sense of "people like me", and positively affects the way you project in future calls.


Pitching interested prospects will make a world of difference.


It all begins with attention and interest. Anything other than that is putting the cart before the horse, and we all know that a cart doesn't pull a horse.

Your job is to FIND interest, more than to create it. Interest that already exists is ten times easier to work with.

Many people spend their whole day trying to create interest where it isn't, instead of capitalizing on where it already is.

Hope this helps.


Will follow this thread as much as possible.


-JD

I feel much more prepared mentally after this thread, thank you both. I'm on a mission to gain at least 1 client from cold calling this month to increase my confidence. Call reluctance is not the problem, for me its more the tactics and approach.

The rule of three rebuttals is ONLY if you get interest....

I think of telemarketing as looking for interest....once you find it, then you go in and try to find the "key" to unlock it and seal the deal

If there is no interest at all...move along...don't think about it, don't worry about it. I have seen a misconception on here that "sales" ability will overcome every objection and situation . It won't

You will be calling businesses that are about to fail, the owner may be planning to close...you will call business that just hired a high priced agency and redid all their graphics, website and has no intention of changing....you wlll run into biz who don't believe in advertising or social media or whatever you are selling...or biz that are just broke...or biz that will ONLY use their nephew, or fellow "church member" or whatever....

NEXTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

Now...when you call someone and they engage in conversation with you, and keep talking then you keep going...you are looking for that spark of interest that you can turn around

Sort and sift...rinse and repeat

IMHO some of the so called "guru" crap leads people to believe this is all a lay down...NOT

a good example are the many "lead generation" reports and wso....makes me laugh hhahaha

"rank and rent">> yeah baby....just try getting through to the owners, and explain this concept to a plumber, electrician...oh yeah

Try reframing what you are doing conceptually.

Instead of calling for an appointment, you are now looking for buyers.

I love the responses here. I hope this helps to connect these ideas together.

As a sales person you should be able to know within 30 seconds or a minute max whether its gonna be sale or no sale. Does not matter how many times he say no or yes

Don't worry much about perfecting your script and spending money on it. Believe me only you can perfect your script and its not a one time thing but an on going process.. It's 90% tonality and the impression you made with it.

If you keep doing it for a while you'll come to know that yourself. wish you all the best

Update:

Started calling 10.25am
Finished 12.36pm

~110 Dials - Softphone

81 Call backs = No pickup / got information
8 Dead numbers = I know there was more but recorded late.
20 No's = Again recorded late, 4 DM no's, the rest were gatekeeper no's

Results = 2 leads
Lead 1 = Sounded interested and asked to call back at 2pm today
Lead 2 = Is getting quotes from a company and is willing to share information about that quote

I would say 1 leads is warm, the other is luke warm. Promising

My aim was 200 dials but I realised it was going to take longer when I already have work to do.

Probably a quarter way into the calls I decided to count 15 seconds before hanging and moving on. All calls were kept to a minimum. Less of the objection handling. I kinda enjoyed it. Like digging for gold

What I would change / improve:
1. Sort my VOIP call quality out. They reported bad sound and delay. Some not. Might have to change to my landline, I will lose seconds and minutes physically punching numbers...we'll see
2. Count 15 seconds before next number, then call back later
3. Save time by staying on the line with the GK max 1 minutes with my layering questions.
4. Fix my excel sheet

Tomorrow another 100 new dials and call backs from today.

Always be in control and find information and never leave a message, just sidestep their question and ask "When is the best time etc".

My conversion to customer when a lead is qualified is about 60% and for the next month, I'm looking for at least 3 new cold calling customers. I'm on a mission.

Michael

Some good pointers and tips here.

In my industry, 25 dials generally results in 9 contacts, which results in 3 apts. Out of those 3 apts, 2 of them will confirm and 1 will sell.

This is just a guideline, but tends to hold pretty true for me.

But my script is on point, and dedicated to only 1 thing.

Update

A call back is when there is no pickup but here are todays stats. No leads on 200 new dials:
Started: 8.58am
Finished: 12.15pm
Duration: 3hrs 13mins

200 Dials
34 GK No's
17 DM No's
28 Dead numbers
33 Call backs with information
88 No pickup (to call back)

No Leads at all today. I had fun today, didn't know I could even dial that many! At this rate, I could definitely do 400 a day. I will probably switch the 2 batches to afternoon on Monday/ Tuesday.

From yesterdays call which I thought was luke warm, have followed up and is sending me information. So a lead has been generated.

I know I need to make a second pass at yesterdays numbers and today but too busy to even do that..really bad and I need to find a way to do that.

Update

Past few days have been setbacks,

Total numbers dial over that period was:

310 dials. I made a second pass over the first 100 dials and only completed about 64 today. Made more contact with DM & No interested.

Best of all, I generated an appointment for next week with a hot lead.

More to come soon.

how many no´s?
unlimited!! keep going till you get a YES, every no brings you closer to a YES

i used to do cold calling years ago for a company, my prospects had only 2 choices say YES or hang up on me.. lol

Great advice above. I'm no longer doing the initial brush off handling, I could be on the phone all day just handling that when I could be making calls. As most have said, you'll know after 1 min if the call is going to be productive.

Todays stats: Duration 2hrs 25mins

Second pass on the same 327 Numbers

253 dials
91 Not interested
65 No answer
30 Dead numbers
3 Call backs (1 possible lead to pin down tomorrow)


Total results so far for this campaign

3 Call backs (DM instructions to call back shortly)
3 Leads
- Lead 1 was just curious but asked to reply in a month,
- Lead 2 we have talked and exchanged emails
- Lead 3 was busy, said "he's done this before, bad experience" but was intrigued, said to call back tomorrow
1 Appt set for next Wednesday for Website Design

I also qualify the GK and ask what she thinks the DM would do, to decide if I should pursue it. More calls tomorrow.

I didn't read all the comments above, but in case it was overlooked:

I hope you're a hell of a lot more upbeat when you speak with people than you were on your recording. You even mumble. That could be a reason people are saying no. No enthusiasm for what you offer and a lack of sounding like you're on the ball.

Then also, the reason you get objection after objection is ONLY because you keep trying to force yourself on them. Like with this: "I need to gather some information..." - - - Sounds like something The Terminator says to Sarah Connor when he comes back to kill her son. Stop pushing. Something more involving as "let's find out real quick if this is a good fit" might serve you better.

You should try incorporating Jason's "Is now a bad time to talk?" - I've been getting that from callers
and if it is something I am interested in, I really appreciate the courtesy. I have the time then,
I don't have the time then, or I anticipate not having the time then for a focused conversation.
(I run a hotel and ingrained into my mind is that Friday through Monday I have to focus on the business at hand.) If I tell a rep to call back, they better listen as it is not a blow off.

It sounds like you are calling a cold list. Maybe separately, or the same day, you might want to
peruse for suspected clients by looking at their web presence and activity and call the likely ones.
Similar to Matthew North's idea of setting aside at least a couple of hours for whale hunting, but now you are targeting lower hanging fruit - bread and butter clients.

Who knows, you might find the DM's direct number this way.

Not meaning to go off subject, but it seems for most business there are 3 to 7 marketing/customer
retention activities that if done consistently will lead to an excellent amount of business. Consistent amount.

Dan

Update.

My number keeping has got a bit messy but I can present the following

323 numbers
3rd pass over

5 leads in total

3 leads in talks and chasing that have showed interest & curiosity & call back in a few months
2 appointments attended today:
1 set from last week - Is seeing another provider to compare, high change I might land this one
1 deal closed today after coming back from first appointment and dialling 10 numbers and set appointment same day.

1 Sale made for web design.

I will probably make 2 more passes over the GK information numbers and Not answered just to make sure and then start my new batch next week sometime.

Stay strong on the phone and hunt!

Michael

I'm on a mission and will report back that result!

Update - New batch of numbers

Evening cold calling starting at 5pm - 6pm

1 hour call time

43 Dials
30 No Answers
6 Gate Keeper with directions to call
5 Not interested
1 Hot lead

Update: 5pm to 6pm

1 Hour total calling time

Followed up with an in depth chat with the lead from yesterday. Scheduled for Tuesday to continue. Confident a proposal will be put forward.

Today's dials:
Same list resuming from line 43
19 Dials
16 No answer
2 Gatekeepers with directions to call
1 Dead number

Ecommerce list
7 Dials
1 DM - Not interested
2 Gatekeepers
3 No answers
1 Lead

Good result I think, the last lead seem talkative and suggested I start the process via email. Time to qualify him.

If I'm being honest, these are not the big time types of clients I want. The client size I need are about 10+ employees so I will need rework the game plan and really infiltrate a larger business.

Funny guy mr 909, not trying to build a brand with this venture btw, its a means to an end.

Pretty interesting thread, looks like you made massive improvements by taking onboard the information given

I would love to see a daily/weekly update in this thread on how your calls are going and how you are growing.

Great job!

Update:

Previous 3 leads have been closed so just waiting for payment which is frustrating as they have said yes.

Today's calls
Start Time 10.02
Finish Time 12.17
2hrs 15Mins

78 Dials (Was abit slow today)

21 GK
22 NA
13 NI-DM
11 NI-GK
4 VM - Left 4 but I should have left more
4 Dead numbers
2 Call Backs - Disconnection, most likely not interested but it wasn't confirmed.
1 Lead - Scheduled phone meeting tomorrow

The main thing to qualify tomorrow onwards is budget before presentation.
Things to improve: by concentrating and counting 15 seconds before moving to next number for NA. I know I lost many minutes here.
I'm going to do another round of cold calling later this evening at 5pm

Michael

I forgot, today marks 1 month of cold calling!

My stats are kinda messy tbh but it goes something like this:

429 unique numbers. There was at least 3 passes over it on average
Total 1,287 dials

4 Leads
2 Call back leads (Things might change their end)
Total 6 leads

2 Leads have been closed (still not paid, very frustrating)
1 Lead was the influencer and was going to recommend me (high hopes for this)

What's frustrating is all that work and still no payment even when closed, so now its the chasing game. Probably a total of maybe 21 hours put into this excluding 2 physical meeting costs.

If it pays off, the total confirmed sales would be about $3947.51, just under $4k

$3947.51 / 21 hours so far = $187ph or £118ph,
Margins might be 50% so the hourly rate could be $93 or £59ph

All the above means f'all until they all damn pay so I'm hopeful.

I'm going to find a way to be more effiecient to increase that hourly rate.

Good luck all.

Continues to be a very interesting thread...

We've run into the same challenges cold-calling. The least desirable clients seem to be the easiest ones to get a hold of.

Certainly there's a place for cold-calling.

After spending several months at it, Dan Kennedy's model of putting out enough "hooks" and letting the clients raise their hands and come to you certainly has its merits also with maybe the most desirable being that potential clients are allowed to "gestate" until they realize they need your services and their level of skepticism has dwindled.

Update. Sorry I haven't kept this thread alive but I have big news:

First major milestone!

Just to give you an idea of my business. My main source of leads is through referrals and also leveraging a database of an development agency.

I have cold called companies, to get face to face meetings (only a handful) and have closed deals.
I have had referrals where I've closed on the phone without meetings.
I have closed deals via leveraging an existing database / represented them, closed without meeting.

BUT today is the first time I've been paid via a pure cold call with no face to face meeting for just under $800pm.

This figure might seem low to some people but this figure represents that I can cold call and close deals without face to face meeting.

This is big news to me, couldn't see it happening because I was working on this lead for 1.5 months.

My back is still against the wall though so I'm not slowing down. I pulled 2 more leads out the bag today from 31 dials and 1hr 45m call time. I should give a bigger picture regarding my stats and how I'm progressing but its abit messy.

Thanks for the support. Will be back.

^^^^
I know of at least a couple of people here who work internationally. It can definitely be done.

Personally, I have heard my cold-calling friends saying they don't completely give up even after getting 100's of NO's, they just keep improvising their script and approach till they make it work!

Michael....that is great that you closed one on phone only....congrats

You sound like you are doing well, "almost there"....what may be lacking is the actual process - making it easy for them to pay

While I like paypal....I was a betatester in 1998 LOL...you should know they changed their rules in June - virtual products (like online, or a web design) are now totally refundable - with like a 3 month leeway...so that might be something to consider

I like the pay by check phone idea

IMHO you need to work on the close too...when you close them get them involved and excited...."send over your graphics, lets' get your hosting set up, blah blah blah" so that "we" are moving right along

close strong....get them involved

If you are having trouble on the close, and you decide to drop the price a little, make it A CONDITION....TO DO IT NOW>..LIKE "WELL I GUESS I COULD GIVE YOU A BREAK HERE JOE BECAUSE I HAVE SOME TIME AVAILABLE THIS WEEK...SO IF YOU WANT ME TO START TODAY I CAN DO IT FOR $1000 (WHATEVER).....NOW....HOW DID YOU WANT TO DO THAT? MOST OF MY CLIENTS JUST DO THE CHECK ON THE PHONE...VERY EASY FOR BOTH OF US....I CAN HOLD WHILE YOU GET THE CHECKBOOK"

Personally I tweak my scripts after 50 No's (Not 50 calls) and I completely change the angel after 80 No's..

Works for me..

A list of some highly recommended book on cold calling:

- Lessons from 100,000 Cold Calls by Stewart Rogers
- Cold Calling Techniques: That Really Work! by Stephan Schiffman
- Smart Calling: Eliminate the Fear, Failure, and Rejection from Cold Calling by Art Sobczak
- I'd Rather Have a Root Canal Than do Cold Calling! by Shawn A. Greene
- Red-Hot Cold Call Selling: Prospecting Techniques That Really Pay Off by Paul S. Goldner
- Selling to Big Companies by Jill Konrath

Also something highly profitable to take note of is the law of averages... you can find more info on this subject if you choose, but it basically states that no matter how many people you share your opportunity with, no matter how many people may not be interested - You will have a ratio, and once a ratio starts it tends to continue... so if you talk to 20 people and get 1 then your ratio is 1:20, so if you want five clients or conversions then talk to 100 people. So a person can make up in numbers what they lack in skill, and over time of course skill inevitably increases.

Skipped reading a lot of the stuff in between just read your first post and 2 others as I scrolled down. If your getting past your intro and getting them qualified you should be closing 90% on the appointment. Never give up and let them off the phone that's what average cold callers do. Champions set the appointment or get hung up on. No inbetween. If you pm me I can critique your script and get your closing ratio way up. I train appointment setters daily.