For people who want to understand risk reversal

9 years ago

Very good points and interesting post. It's interesting to me specifically because when I started on my own in internet marketing and web development for offline businesses 16 years ago I felt it was important to define and guarantee what we would deliver.

At first the struggle was what is marketing, copy or a web site or seo worth but then it became clear to me that this would constantly change based on skills, experience and the value of the problem you were solving.

The simplest approach I was able to adopt for myself was that I would never take on a job unless I could guarantee a client that I would make them more money than I cost them. I have stuck to that. I have talked about it at length with prospects and clients. It pleases me now that I get calls from referrals and they say I talked to so and so, he said hire Peter, you can't lose he always makes his clients more money than he costs them.

This has for the most part removed issues about how much the service costs. If for example we take on a local contractor and the price for a year of handling all things internet is 25k all I need to do is demonstrate the math on the profits I will generate them.

I have never had to give anyone their money back. On the rare occasion that generating revenue from our efforts was a problem it generally tracked back to their back end. When this has occurred I have given whatever support was required in troubleshooting, sales training/scripting/crm etc...

Many providers will simply say "that's their problem" but that seems short sighted to me. If I can help them resolve back end issues then the system as a whole becomes profitable and they remain clients for many years. I have dozens that have stuck with me for more than a decade.

It will be interesting to see what guarantees, if any, others offer.

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Oziboomer

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Peter Lessard

On the rare occasion that generating revenue from our efforts was a problem it generally tracked back to their back end. When this has occurred I have given whatever support was required in troubleshooting, sales training/scripting/crm etc...

Thanks Peter...you illustrate where your guarantee transcends the bridge between expected outcomes and actual results.

It takes a true professional to go above and beyond what is initially discussed with a client to deliver an outcome that ultimately benefits both parties.

Some examples although abstract from your "holistic" approach to delivering a quality outcome to your clients....

I've guaranteed to honour a quote "for as long as the piece of paper lasts"....

The record stands at nearly seven years when a client brought in a quote for a job and I honoured the initial quote.

I leverage that example at least a several times per week when I may get an "undecided" future client.

The real value of your guarantee is in the referral where you mention

and they say I talked to so and so, he said hire Peter, you can't lose he always makes his clients more money than he costs them.

This is absolute gold...because you have established that you will deliver....not only deliver...
...you have a duty...you are honourable in your efforts...to deliver an outcome that not only your clients are happy with...

....but you are proud to associate "Peter Lessard" to.

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ewenmack

9 years ago

I recalled a case study by Jay Abraham how a commercial pest control firm
made a ballsy guarantee.

They specialized in food manufacturing plants.

If the plant had to be shut down due to vermin,
the pest control firm would pay for all costs of closure.

So if the food plant lost a contract due to it,
the pest control firm would pay out.

Joe Sugarman said if the Blublockers
should ever get broken by sitting on them,
standing on them, the dog munched on them
or they got lost, no matter how long after you'd
bought them, he would replace them.

When I had my lawnmowing businesses,
the biggest frustration with other contractors was,
and probably still is, that they don't turn up on time
and don't do what they say they will do.

I guaranteed that would never happen.

If it should, my penalty was $1,000.
They were the sole judge and executioner.

Now I didn't start at $1,000.

Started at $100 so I made sure I had my act together
so it would never happen.

I was called on it once, and got off by the guy saying
"fifty bucks will do instead of $100"

I paid him.

Never happened again.

This allowed me to charge higher prices than others I knew.

It attracted my ideal long term customer.

Those customers put a higher valuation on the business when I sold.

Best,
Doctor E. Vile

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TheBigBee

9 years ago

Pretty amazing thread guys!

I got to thinking and I was hoping to get feedback... At what point do you just walk away from a potential client? Or, let an existing client go?

In the case of a prospective client I'm not talking about the obvious reasons to walk away like extremely poor rep, rabid employee abuse, etc. But what if a greedy business owners' business is booming. But he wants more?

He's in this giant (meta) competition with the total sum of all businesses in his area for share of local residents' wallets. His share cannot grow infinitely. It can only grow commensurate to the pool of dollars that expands in his area. So, you run into this guy - great business, solid rep, not afraid to spend money... You're amazing at what you do, case studies, results, etc. Can you really "over deliver" here? Or, how does risk reversal work in this situation?

Or, let's say you have an existing client of a couple of years. His share of wallet has reached his zenith due to your efforts? Do you let him go or keep drawing fees to essentially be an overpaid maintenance worker until he bails?

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Peter Lessard

9 years ago

I have told clients your doing a great job you don't need me but it has been rare, maybe 2 or 3 since I am in business. Frankly the situation below does not really exist very often or for a long period of time because all businesses have ups and downs due to changes and competitor changes.

Think of it in reverse. The guy below exists, his competitor hires one of us, suddenly he is begging for help. You can wreak havoc pretty quickly on a business these days with a concerted effort.

Also I can't speak for anyone else but for me if I built him up for years he is happy to pay me to protect the eggs in his basket and I am an ongoing part of the process that keeps him where he is.

Even the really busy ones with more that their market share I can generally easily find efficiencies or holes I can plug that more than pay for a reasonable fee.

EDIT: It's also worth mentioning I may run into this less because I don't do cold calls or outreach, at this point its all referrals or inbound from them searching for the solution to a problem and finding a post or ad. Since they are choosing to engage me there is generally something I can help with.

Originally Posted by TheBigBee

Pretty amazing thread guys!

I got to thinking and I was hoping to get feedback... At what point do you just walk away from a potential client? Or, let an existing client go?

In the case of a prospective client I'm not talking about the obvious reasons to walk away like extremely poor rep, rabid employee abuse, etc. But what if a greedy business owners' business is booming. But he wants more?

He's in this giant (meta) competition with the total sum of all businesses in his area for share of local residents' wallets. His share cannot grow infinitely. It can only grow commensurate to the pool of dollars that expands in his area. So, you run into this guy - great business, solid rep, not afraid to spend money... You're amazing at what you do, case studies, results, etc. Can you really "over deliver" here? Or, how does risk reversal work in this situation?

Or, let's say you have an existing client of a couple of years. His share of wallet has reached his zenith due to your efforts? Do you let him go or keep drawing fees to essentially be an overpaid maintenance worker until he bails?

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savidge4

9 years ago

I think for some part many of us here understand risk reversal. the issue I think many have is actually utilizing it. Ewen makes a great point that you start out with the risk on your end being minimal. ( but not to minimal ) and work into what would seem ridiculous. $1000 for not mowing a lawn on time.. that's crazy! LOL

I think there is 2 parts in this. there is the confidence in making such an offer. then there is the actual ability to make such an offer.

The overall theme here is to get yourself out of generic result based outcomes.

Lawn mowing... It goes from mowing once a week to.. I will be there on Tuesday of every week at 10am and before I leave your property will be spotless, or I'll pay you $1000.

With SEO it goes from I will rank 10 keywords ( that we all know is worthless ) to I will increase your ROI in so many months.

Basically in all of these models there are 4 elements. A start date. an exact end period, and a given result.. If those are not met, then there is a penalty.

In my personal business there is a very tight window between start and end with a desired result. The penalty that I have started using is the first months payment being in escrow. No performance, No payment, and no need to continue further.

In all the many models of we discuss here, be it lead gen, or directories or mailers or cold calling or door 2 door there are 2 factors and 2 factor only that make all of this happen. Targeted traffic, ( be it SEO or pay per click or a mailing / calling list ) and The actual pitch itself.

Understanding how to get in front of those that are wiling to buy not only your services, but your clients products and services. And how to actually make the close... this is the stuff that risk reversal is made of. I can and will provide this for you and your company or you will get this in return.

In computer programming geekanese this would be an If Then Else statement. Again using the Lawn Mower.. If you hire me, I Then will mow your lawn at 10am on Tuesday. anything Else.. I will pay $1000

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ewenmack

9 years ago

A way to engineer confidence in the certainty of outcome/results,
without the big ballsy guarantees, is to go into finer detail
as to what you do.

Toyota do this with their 160-Point Inspection...

http://www.toyotacertified.com/inspection.html

"160-Point Inspection
We check 160 points (174 for Hybrids). All to prove one point: Only the best get to be Toyota Certified Used Vehicles."

If you name your process, then only you do it,
therefore more difficult to be priced shopped.

You create value out of thin air by naming a system on how you do things.

I've named part of what I do
The Tipping Point..

Now others refer to that term.

Can you name sales gurus that have their own proprietary process?

Those that don't, fight to be heard and stand out from the heard.

Best,
Doctor E. Vile

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Oziboomer

9 years ago

Originally Posted by ewenmack

A way to engineer confidence in the certainty of outcome/results,
without the big ballsy guarantees, is to go into finer detail
as to what you do.

Toyota do this with their 160-Point Inspection...

Although my business is no Toyota we came up with an 18 point checklist.

We could have made it shorter or longer but we chose 18 points because we have a strong Chinese community close by and anything with an 8 in it is lucky.

None of out competitors promote or use a checklist.

If you name your process, then only you do it,
therefore more difficult to be priced shopped.

You create value out of thin air by naming a system on how you do things.

I've named part of what I do
The Tipping Point..

Now others refer to that term.

This was something that I created and trademarked to separate my business from the other competitors offering a similar service. I came up with the Endurart Process to describe the system we use to protect pictures.

We use the words "Your best choice today to enjoy your pictures tomorrow."

Apart from our Guarantee "Be totally delighted with your framing or it is changed for free."

These additional components add weight to the risk reversal process.

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misterme

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Oziboomer

I've read guarantees like..

"In the event your wedding photos do not come out because of some failure on our part, we will dry-clean the bride's dress, dry-clean the bridesmaids' dresses, dry-clean and rehire the groom's suit, dry-clean and rehire the groomsmen's suits, reproduce the bridal bouquet, reproduce the bridesmaids' bouquets, dry-clean the mother's dresses, dry-clean the father's suits AND rehire the wedding cars, rebook the church, re-invite the guests and have the wedding cake reproduced to redo your photos"

Being somewhat acquainted with that industry sparked another point in my mind as I read your guarantee example. And that is, a component of the guarantee has to be seen as practical to the customer, wouldn't it? Is the bride to be, when choosing her photographer, going to think, "how the hell are all my guests gonna be okay with coming back to re-enact the wedding? How's that even gonna be organized it was a royal pain getting it the first time around... nah, ain't gonna happen" and that would take the air out of the sail. Or sale.

Or, considering the nature of the service being to document a once in a lifetime event, that it has to nail it right the first time out, so wouldn't a bride rather make extra double sure going in that the service will perform as promised, over knowing that if the service fails they'll end up with a second-hand re-do?

So the guarantee has to make a kind of real practical sense, not just have risk reversal, wouldn't you agree?

Originally Posted by ewenmack

A way to engineer confidence in the certainty of outcome/results,
without the big ballsy guarantees, is to go into finer detail
as to what you do.

Toyota do this with their 160-Point Inspection...

160 Point Inspection | Certified Used Toyota

"160-Point Inspection
We check 160 points (174 for Hybrids). All to prove one point: Only the best get to be Toyota Certified Used Vehicles."

If you name your process, then only you do it,
therefore more difficult to be priced shopped.

Yeah though that was more of a USP than a guarantee, wasn't it? And I don't recall which car manufacturer did it first but as soon as the first guy came out with their 101 points, wasn't long till the next car manufacturer upped them with their 150 point inspection, and now I think it's probably up to 201 points, which includes the salesperson assuring you that your ass doesn't look fat in this car.

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Oziboomer

9 years ago

Originally Posted by misterme

Being somewhat acquainted with that industry sparked another point in my mind as I read your guarantee example. And that is, a component of the guarantee has to be seen as practical to the customer, wouldn't it? Is the bride to be, when choosing her photographer, going to think, "how the hell are all my guests gonna be okay with coming back to re-enact the wedding? How's that even gonna be organized it was a royal pain getting it the first time around... nah, ain't gonna happen" and that would take the air out of the sail. Or sale.

Or, considering the nature of the service being to document a once in a lifetime event, that it has to nail it right the first time out, so wouldn't a bride rather make extra double sure going in that the service will perform as promised, over knowing that if the service fails they'll end up with a second-hand re-do?

So the guarantee has to make a kind of real practical sense, not just have risk reversal, wouldn't you agree?

I'm sure every bride has doubts tucked away in the back of her mind as to how happy and flawless she would like her wedding day would be.

My sister and her husband set up a wedding videography business after they had such a disappointing experience with the videographer they had chosen for their wedding.

They always reassured the "mostly brides and mothers" that they had experienced a negative outcome and so they did ...this and this and this...usually back-up cameraman and other steps they took...more than a guarantee to re-assure the bride her day would be special and their part in capturing the day was secure and reliable.

It points to the reason why choosing a photographer to shoot your wedding or any once in a lifetime event is a very important decision.

It also should not be a cheap choice and should be a reason to choose someone who delivered professional results at professional prices.

The emotional importance of connecting to that event and valuing the contribution a professional photographer makes to capturing that event is of great importance.

For photographers who just take the easy route of that "mundane" shot...the standard shots you see from numerous different weddings...

...and those like the emotion capturing photographic artworks like PORTFOLIO - NYC Wedding Photographer G.E. MASANANYC Wedding Photographer G.E. MASANA

...are chalk and cheese.

Often as they say a "picture tells a thousand words"

I'd say some of the best guarantees photographers can provide is a solid portfolio of work coupled with confident re-assurance that they are professionals and that is why you are choosing them over a competitor who either comes across as cheap or somewhat amateur.

Thanks

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alanj 9 years ago

Great idea the $1000 guarantee Ewen.
What guarantee do you give now ?
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- ewenmack 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by alanj
  
  Great idea the $1000 guarantee Ewen.
  What guarantee do you give now ?
  
  I'm no longer in that business Alan.
  
  Best,
  Doctor E. Vile
  
  Thanks
  
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Jack Gordon

9 years ago

I love talking to prospective clients about my primary business guarantee.

I sell a data service. My clients upload tens or hundreds of thousands, or in some cases millions of rows of data to me each month, and I process it and return it to them.

I charge by the row. And it ain't cheap. Great value, but not cheap.

Every client, whether they ask for it or not, starts with a free, unlimited 30-day trial. I go overboard in explaining it to them. I beg them to use me, abuse me, take full advantage of my generosity. I tell them to run everything they've got in that first month, several times, just to make sure they are thrilled with the service. Once they figure it all out, I tell them, they will be addicted and will stay with me for years.

And they do. My only significant source of churn is the clients who are acquired or go out of business.

After that 30-day free trial, my agreement is month to month. My competitors don't do that (or the free trial, for that matter). They use long term contracts.

I have never felt the need to lock people in, because once they use me they keep using me, and the PR value of month-to-month easily outweighs the nonexistent risk of losing people too soon.

Free, unlimited 30-day trial + month-to-month commitment = no risk. I've got the goods, and I play it up for them. I wouldn't change a thing.

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imaginenewmedia

9 years ago

As a photographer, and considering some of the clients I've had over the years, the only guarantee I give them that is my "liability is limited to the amount of payments received". And that is only if I don't show up, or my equipment (and backups) fail. You would not believe the amount of nutbar clients that show up in this business. "I look old", "I look fat".
I'm sorry, these are the best pictures you've had taken in your life, but you have an unrealistic perception of yourself. I do the best I can, and I realize I may not get referrals from these clients, but sometimes you just have to cut bait.

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Oziboomer

9 years ago

Here are ten guarantees courtesy of the kiss metrics blog
https://blog.kissmetrics.com/10-guarantees/

1. The Money Back Guarantee

2. The Risk Free Guarantee

3. 100% Satisfaction Guarantee

4. The Forever Guarantee

5. Low Price Guarantee

6. Free Trial

They then talk about the guarantees that are "Outside the box"

7. The Extreme Guarantee

Zappos example - Free Shipping, Free Returns and Free 365 day return policy.

8. The Double Guarantee

9. The $1 Million Service Guarantee

10. The Zero Guarantee

Maybe you'd like to read the ideas and share your thoughts.

Thanks
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Lee M 9 years ago

With my press release writing and distribution services ... here's what I've used:

Stand Behind It Guarantee!

"I can't guarantee media coverage...nobody can...
but I can resend your press release to the same media list,
build a new list of contacts, or revise your release."

This exact approach has served me well for nearly 25 years.

I don't hide from problems and clients respect that and can tell I'm sincere. Even if the outcome doesn't go as well as they had hoped ... they know I'm willing to go the extra mile for them and will always do my best.

And when someone looks over the boatloads of testimonials that I have and is STILL skeptical I always say, "Listen, to be fair, I can also provide you with a list of folks that have been disappointed too. Every project is different. And yes, your project may fail. But I'll be here to help."

THAT has always garnered me tremendous RESPECT. And usually pushes the potential prospect to do some business with me.
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savidge4

9 years ago

What I find interesting about this topic is in the States, there are States that require there be a return period ( depending on the State ) and the rest is to be determined by the merchants "return and refund policy" Customer Returns and Refund Laws by State

So aside from the States that this is required there still is this little known term "Caveat Emptor" that translates to "buyer beware". this term is not used so much in todays world but the term "Caveat Venditor" is. This term translates to "let the seller beware" due to the nature of commerce today IE online mail order etc there is an "Implied warranty" of merchantability.

If you buy a coffee mug and it is delivered with a hole in the bottom.. regardless of intended law.. there is a less than requirement to replace or refund the item. The only way around this is to have conspicuously displayed your lack of return policy.

A good example here is the law suites against Mr Dupre and the other TV marketers. I would say that #10 on the list that Oziboomer provided actually is a stretch here. Granted the items are 3rd party but by the nature of merchantability if I had this type of return policy and someone requested a refund.. I would probably give them one.

I think the real question here is.. Are return policies actually Risk Reversal? I would say no. Read the Kissmetric article and you will see the term "Risk Reducer" and that falls more in line with what I personally would call it.

Trying something for a free trial or return for any reason in my mind s good customer service ( which goes a long way don't get me wrong ) but there is not a clear penalty - and its the penalty that I think makes risk reversal. "If I don't mow your lawn on the day and time scheduled, I will pay you $1000". or "If I do not show a gain in conversion on your site I will release the 1st months payment that has been placed in escrow".

My risk reversal ( 1st month placed in escrow ) is in essence 100% money back Guarantee. BUT, the wording takes it to a different level and implies a considerable financial loss on my part.

Originally Posted by Oziboomer

Here are ten guarantees courtesy of the kiss metrics blog
https://blog.kissmetrics.com/10-guarantees/

1. The Money Back Guarantee

2. The Risk Free Guarantee

3. 100% Satisfaction Guarantee

4. The Forever Guarantee

5. Low Price Guarantee

6. Free Trial

They then talk about the guarantees that are "Outside the box"

7. The Extreme Guarantee

Zappos example - Free Shipping, Free Returns and Free 365 day return policy.

8. The Double Guarantee

9. The $1 Million Service Guarantee

10. The Zero Guarantee

Maybe you'd like to read the ideas and share your thoughts.

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ewenmack 9 years ago

Since well over half of people click away from
shopping cat checkout pages, opens up a
massive opportunity to to bump up sales.

Example having a 30 day money back guarantee seal
turns out to be not enough.

Having that image clickable so a pop up window appears
explaining in detail what that guarantee covers, halved
the page drop offs, therefore doubled revenue
for no extra expense.

In the household removal business in the USA,
there is a law that states all items must be insured by the carrier.

The formula for insuring the items is based on weight,
not dollar value. This means a king size bed has more
insured value than a Monet oil painting based on the minimum
insured value by law.

Yet nobody in that business points this out to the consumers,
then takes out insurance cover based on dollar value for damage
or loss.

Two big opportunities there.

Best,
Doctor E. Vile
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Jack Gordon

9 years ago

One thing I haven't seen explicitly mentioned (I would have mentioned it in my above post had I thought about it at the time) is the power of reciprocity.

Risk reversal plays to the desire of humans not to get screwed on a deal.

Reciprocity takes it a step further, and implants a feeling of indebtedness on the part of the buyer.

That feeling of indebtedness, if nurtured (and not abused) can be a powerful loyalty motivator.

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Oziboomer

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Jack Gordon

One thing I haven't seen explicitly mentioned (I would have mentioned it in my above post had I thought about it at the time) is the power of reciprocity.

Risk reversal plays to the desire of humans not to get screwed on a deal.

Reciprocity takes it a step further, and implants a feeling of indebtedness on the part of the buyer.

That feeling of indebtedness, if nurtured (and not abused) can be a powerful loyalty motivator.

Thanks Jack, your observation is total valid and proved everyday in my retail business where I encourage staff to "get the door" for everyone, purchaser or not.

We have a big bowl of "mentos" - an individually wrapped mint...but we also have fruit flavours for the kids..right on the counter.

We give free picture hooks to most people although we do also sell high-end hanging systems.

A simple courtesy of carrying the customers goods to the car or just saying goodbye politely creates that reciprocity.

Following up client by phone a couple of days after their purchase to see how they are going also costs next to nothing but works a charm...

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alanj

9 years ago

Yes I know, I meant in your current business. What guarantee do you give now ?

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ewenmack 9 years ago

Originally Posted by alanj

Yes I know, I meant in your current business. What guarantee do you give now ?

In my business that supplies paper for Point Of Sale Machines,
none.

For my consulting business, none.

Best,
Doctor E. Vile
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winnermarketing

9 years ago

Interesting post.

A SMART (and HONEST) thing to do could be

Give promises of 100% refund
IF
customer have no results DOING strategies respecting rules!!

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Oziboomer

9 years ago

Originally Posted by winnermarketing

Interesting post.

A SMART (and HONEST) thing to do could be

Give promises of 100% refund
IF
customer have no results DOING strategies respecting rules!!

This is very much IM marketing speak where most people jump on a buy a training product that may or may not have delivered results to the product creator but may totally fail for someone else.

It is a bit like trying to guarantee any financial investment or sporting outcome....a team may follow the strategy to the letter...but still lose.

Strategies are not easy to guarantee as one strategy applied to a specific business may totally fail due to the circumstances of that business being different.

In the IM space I think many people would not even think about claiming a refund for a training product because they may blame themselves for the failure.

There are plenty of strategies that are proven to work in the offline space but they will still only work when their is some intelligence behind the application.

Much like Ewen's "Tipping Point"....

you may think you understand what motivates your ideal prospect to buy, but without meaningful analysis of your specific business and the outcomes that you desire, just copying someone else's strategy is not a wise way to go.

For most products sold through real businesses there is protection under consumer law

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