[Live Case Study] I got ticked off and sent him this, will it get me anywhere?

27 replies
You know those guys who mess with you, waste your time... Basically (expletive) with you?

I got one of those guys today... Nearly made me puke all over my keyboard... And so I sent him this e-mail...

Joe,

Thanks for getting back. I notice you have a pretty strong Yelp rating which is awesome. However, when I go to Google.com and type in "Greek food {some city}" or "{some city} greek food" I can't find you at all. Also, see the attached photo. {Redacted} The guys in positions 3-5 don't even have 4 star ratings and you do! You're better than them! Those are your spots!

Additionally, grab your phone and go to your site. It it's not mobile optimized so it's really hard to see. Hard to get to menu, direction information, or even get the address. According to small business trends 60% of all internet traffic comes from mobile devices {inserted link}. Joe, that means 6 out of every 10 brand new prospective customers arrive at your site and leave frustrated because they can't find your menu and your location information.

How much is your average ticket? How much does the average person spend in their lifetime with you? Based on these two issues, how much money have you potentially lost? How much is there to potentially gain? Are you fine with having folks who don't hold a candle to your restaurants walking away with what should be your share of wallet???

Inline image 1

Joe, here's the thing. These are all very easy fixes. I am 100% confident that you and {sisters name} can fix these issues at a net cost of $0 to you. Things like this are becoming easier to fix on your own and I would encourage you to give it a shot! I think that if you pay $1 for help with this stuff you were overcharged! You just have to be willing to extend the work week by a couple of hours.

However, I am prone to go the extra mile for folks I do business with so if {we ever do business} I'm happy to personally fix these issues for you.

Thanks again for circling back and have a successful week!

I'm sooo pissed that I am going to reach out to him until I get a response of some sort. If he says nothing more than "{expletive} you!" I'll consider it a win.

Getting his $ would be nice and I'll try my best. I am still fuming as we speak. Anyway, will I eventually rope in this fish? Any of you ever send anything like this after a similar experience?

I'll post updates as they become available!
#case #live #study #ticked
  • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
    Originally Posted by TheBigBee View Post

    You know those guys who mess with you, waste your time... Basically (expletive) with you?

    I got one of those guys today... Nearly made me puke all over my keyboard... And so I sent him this e-mail...




    I'm sooo pissed that I am going to reach out to him until I get a response of some sort. If he says nothing more than "{expletive} you!" I'll consider it a win.

    Getting his $ would be nice and I'll try my best. I am still fuming as we speak. Anyway, will I eventually rope in this fish? Any of you ever send anything like this after a similar experience?

    I'll post updates as they become available!

    I'd let it go. Life's too short. Look for people that are looking for you, not someone who'll waste your time on a regular basis. You know, the people that you have to sell again and again?

    Is this someone that you'd really like to deal with on a regular basis? Sounds like a constant headache to me.

    There are some people that you WANT to pass on to your competition.
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  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
    Originally Posted by TheBigBee View Post

    Anyway, will I eventually rope in this fish?
    Since you said fish... are you fishing just to fish? or are you in a Bass Tournament?

    Anything less than a Bass.. let it loose and throw on some more bait.

    think of he positive here... You have proven that you are where the fish are. You have proven your bait works. you have proven by the fact he buy called back you presented the bait correctly... you simply caught the wrong one. You've got all day to get it right. you brought some sandwiches and have some cold drinks.

    Take a deep breath and relax.
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  • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
    Originally Posted by TheBigBee View Post

    I'm sooo pissed that I am going to reach out to him until I get a response of some sort. If he says nothing more than "{expletive} you!" I'll consider it a win.
    !
    You may have already lost ?
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Why are you upset? Because he hasn't bought from you?

      Why would you get mad at someone, and still try to convince them to be your client?
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  • Profile picture of the author joe golfer
    You young guys...take it from an old-timer with a walker (kitted out with its own GPS Unit - so they know where Grandpa is)...move on.

    My first year in business I called on this tire store in Akron trying to get them to buy my service. I came back every week -- no dice -- although I really did not know what I was doing, showing up with new graphs that said the same thing, so maybe he had a point.

    I would put this restaurant in a tickler/follow-up file and revisit it down the road.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by joe golfer View Post

      I would put this restaurant in a tickler/follow-up file and revisit it down the road.
      I wouldn't even go that far. I would go after any and every competing restaurant this guy has and beat the living snot out of the guy. I would straight up break him.

      If and when the guy would ever call back asking for your help.... twice the price and a contractual agreement if the word f'ing is ever used once... you are done. "take it, or f'ing leave it"
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      • Profile picture of the author Freebiequeen1999
        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        I wouldn't even go that far. I would go after any and every competing restaurant this guy has and beat the living snot out of the guy. I would straight up break him.

        If and when the guy would ever call back asking for your help.... twice the price and a contractual agreement if the word f'ing is ever used once... you are done. "take it, or f'ing leave it"
        Why? that is so childish. Having that kind of attitude is not going to get referrals

        Why would you want to "break him"?? Because he chose not to use your services or chose someone else? Such negative energy.
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        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
          Originally Posted by Freebiequeen1999 View Post

          Why? that is so childish. Having that kind of attitude is not going to get referrals

          Why would you want to "break him"?? Because he chose not to use your services or chose someone else? Such negative energy.
          EXCUSE ME? Doing such a good job for not one but 2 or three or 6 of his competitors.. thats how you break the guy... Those 2 or 3 or 6.. they will refer. Its not childish.. its turning his already apparent negative energy into a positive... its called MOTIVATION!

          Im a marketer.. that's what I do for a living. Its my job to ensure that you choose my clients place of business... their services... their products. I squeeze market share from any and every angle. I squeeze stupid out of the market place.

          its not Negative.. its what I do for a living. Don't like the terms and the language? ok maybe.. but at its core.. that is what each and every one of us do for a living. "take it or f'ing leave it"
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          • Profile picture of the author TheBigBee
            I've been told no and / or been rejected all my life. I am one of the 4% of all companies to raise venture capital. That said, this was about respect. He dissed me as a man. A human. I would have been well within my rights to call him everything except a child of God.

            There's a lot going on in that email. Lot of "psych warfare." Im interested to see how he responds and will report accordingly.
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            • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
              Originally Posted by TheBigBee View Post

              I've been told no and / or been rejected all my life. I am one of the 4% of all companies to raise venture capital. That said, this was about respect. He dissed me as a man. A human. I would have been well within my rights to call him everything except a child of God.

              There's a lot going on in that email. Lot of "psych warfare." Im interested to see how he responds and will report accordingly.
              One can always choose how they react to any given situation. You are choosing to be
              "dissed" as a man and going off the deep end and wasting a lot of time and emotional energy.
              Even seems like this event is about all past nos and rejections. Gotta let 'em all go and don't let
              future ones build up that way.

              In his mind, he only got rid of another "pesky salesman". Perhaps rudely. And he is probably
              not even thinking about it anymore. Probably does not care about his web visibility.

              At my first job in customer service, I had a manager who constantly said that the customer is always right. That was in high school and it took me awhile to modify that sentiment and realize that there
              is a line they cross to where they are not customers, just jerks.

              So, you can modify that and realize you don't want some people as customers. Realizing that,
              you will also realize that choosing to not pursue someone and get their business, or being rejected
              by a jerk, is not loosing at all. It's you being smart and efficient in business.


              Dan
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              • Profile picture of the author TheBigBee
                Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

                One can always choose how they react to any given situation. You are choosing to be
                "dissed" as a man and going off the deep end and wasting a lot of time and emotional energy.
                Even seems like this event is about all past nos and rejections. Gotta let 'em all go and don't let
                future ones build up that way.

                In his mind, he only got rid of another "pesky salesman". Perhaps rudely. And he is probably
                not even thinking about it anymore. Probably does not care about his web visibility.

                At my first job in customer service, I had a manager who constantly said that the customer is always right. That was in high school and it took me awhile to modify that sentiment and realize that there
                is a line they cross to where they are not customers, just jerks.

                So, you can modify that and realize you don't want some people as customers. Realizing that,
                you will also realize that choosing to not pursue someone and get their business, or being rejected
                by a jerk, is not loosing at all. It's you being smart and efficient in business.


                Dan

                With all due respect I disagree. The only expert on me is me. I am curious to see how this pans out. Will he hire one of you guys to fix those issues? If so, is there a viable economic opportunity to sell my rejects as leads when I discover those problems? That email was quick to write.

                I wasn't so much looking for tutelage or to be educated or reprimanded by the folks here. I thought maybe guys would be curious like me, what's his next move?
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                • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
                  I don't know. I think he actually did you a favor. He weeded himself out as a qualified prospect. I would never want to work with someone like that.

                  Better you found out up front what type of person he is than to be 3-4 months into working with him and then realize he is a nightmare to work with.
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                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                  Originally Posted by TheBigBee View Post

                  . I thought maybe guys would be curious like me, what's his next move?
                  I can only speak for myself. I am never curious about the prospect's next move. I only care if he is getting closer to buying, or getting further away. Showing any disrespect to me, would show me that I don't want that business....and working with him would be a real chore.

                  You're letting this guy dictate how you feel.

                  Your reaction is different from mine. You feel good because you got something off your chest. I never feel that way. I just get angry with myself...because I let someone make me angry. In other words, it's not about the prospect, (to me), it's only about how I react.

                  And...I've read your e-mail several times already. I still don't see anything in it that shows anger or discontent. It just looks like a letter trying to sell a service. Not a bad one, either.


                  $1,000 an hour for consulting? My hat's off to you.
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                  • Profile picture of the author TheBigBee
                    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post



                    $1,000 an hour for consulting? My hat's off to you.
                    Yup... proof permanently resides on the internet and I'm not going to post link so as not to self promote but feel free to PM.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                      Originally Posted by TheBigBee View Post

                      Yup... proof permanently resides on the internet and I'm not going to post link so as not to self promote but feel free to PM.
                      I don't need proof. My congratulations was sincere . It would never occur me that your statement wasn't true.

                      I get $500 an hour (2 hour minimum) myself. So, your claim isn't unbelievable.
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      • Profile picture of the author eccj
        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        I wouldn't even go that far. I would go after any and every competing restaurant this guy has and beat the living snot out of the guy. I would straight up break him.

        If and when the guy would ever call back asking for your help.... twice the price and a contractual agreement if the word f'ing is ever used once... you are done. "take it, or f'ing leave it"
        I like it.

        It is good to get PO'd every so often. It's kinda like getting the oil changed.

        This is an odd thread though..... I think we are missing some important details. If he was that mean to you on a personal level why do you want the guy as a client? Yeah sometimes the angry people are the easiest to close because they just want someone to listen to them blow some steam but this sounds like more than that.
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        • Profile picture of the author TheBigBee
          Originally Posted by eccj View Post

          I like it.

          It is good to get PO'd every so often. It's kinda like getting the oil changed.

          This is an odd thread though..... I think we are missing some important details. If he was that mean to you on a personal level why do you want the guy as a client? Yeah sometimes the angry people are the easiest to close because they just want someone to listen to them blow some steam but this sounds like more than that.
          I'm not going to repeat his words. He was never angry towards me. But here's the process.
          1. Intro
          2. Follow up
          3. Postiive response from him.
          4. Follow up.
          5. Demand for free goods / services by him.
          6. I declined.
          7. He sends a condescending, ego driven, and disrespectful reply. Basically; "you're nothing, I am something, give me your services free, and I might help you make something of yourself." Now the words were more acerbic but you get the point.

          I was going to default to sending him online proof of the fact that I have been paid $1,000 per hour to talk on the phone on Clarity and a bunch of other accomplishments. Then I read it and I'm like; "this is junk, lets make this about him..."

          You're right about it being good to get PO'ed sometimes. Fires you up a bit. I was in the office at 6 a.m.!

          I've personally always taken rejection with; "Ok, thanks be well." First time I took this line... I feel great!
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  • Profile picture of the author Freebiequeen1999
    Makes no sense to get mad when someone chooses not to use your services or go with someone else.

    If you let this upset you, maybe sales is not your thing? IMHO the letter is very combative, and not a good representation. Even if he is the one who reached out to you, it is his prerogative to shop around, be a "lookie lou" or a "tire kicker". That is what comes with sales
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  • Profile picture of the author kemdev
    His next move is probably ignoring the email.
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    • Profile picture of the author TheBigBee
      Originally Posted by kemdev View Post

      His next move is probably ignoring the email.
      Nope. Him, and his two sibling co-owners have read / opened a total of 11 times so far. More updates soon!
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  • Profile picture of the author misterme
    Originally Posted by TheBigBee View Post

    He sends a condescending, ego driven, and disrespectful reply. Basically; "you're nothing, I am something, give me your services free, and I might help you make something of yourself." Now the words were more acerbic but you get the point.
    Originally Posted by TheBigBee View Post

    will I eventually rope in this fish?
    I've gotten his kind of response before. I'm on to it. It's a negotiation ploy. Putting you down, belittle you, dominate you, giving you the "I'm the one in a position to help, not YOU! Do for me and it'll go well for you" bullshit to get what they want from you for free.

    If you respond... then he's the one doing the roping.
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  • Profile picture of the author Freebiequeen1999
    I don't see why you would want to have a guy like that for a client or why you would keep letting him control "space in your head"
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    • Profile picture of the author TheBigBee
      Originally Posted by Freebiequeen1999 View Post

      I don't see why you would want to have a guy like that for a client or why you would keep letting him control "space in your head"
      I am guilty as charged. But you are absolutely right. I guess my ego got bruised and I felt the need to "strike back" without stooping to his level. But I see how some may see that the fact that I even replied was my stooping to his level.
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  • Profile picture of the author joe golfer
    My experience is these time wasters are rare. Most small business owners don't have time, although I've met similar characters, some of whom I finally concluded like running their own business as much for its freedom to be an A-hole as anything else.

    However, looking back through the clear lens of a long life, it was often the other way around. Something in my demeanor, conviction, enthusiasm, or style just didn't sit right with them either at first or over time. And they got rebellious. In other words, like Jimmy Buffet, I realized it could be my fault.
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    • Profile picture of the author ronr
      I understand how some people make you mad and you want to fight back and show them.

      I have an owner who bought a business that I marketed from scratch to over 20K in new clients per month. The new owner said he wanted me to continue. We met, I told him how I would protect his current rankings and marketing to ensure the new clients would keep coming in during the transition. He told me I was too expensive, ended up not paying me a dime and doing exactly the opposite that I told him. He's about to lose all the marketing and ranking I built for the business over the last several years.

      Was I mad, yes. Mad over seeing everything I built about to go away and mad that the new owner is being so stupid. But then I realize he's the loser when his new client flow dries up to almost nothing.

      I only like to work with people I like. If someone is arrogant, doesn't respect me or I think they will will fight or constantly question my advice, I don't care how much they pay.

      For me that's the difference in putting up with a boss and having my own business and choosing who I work with.

      I'm glad this guy showed his true colors upfront. Even he wants me to help him in the future, I'll give them the "I don't think we are a good match"... line.

      Ron
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      • Profile picture of the author ronr
        Update: Just checked and after only a couple days of doing what I told the new owner not to do, the business's #1 ranking (that I had for years for the old owner) has completely disappeared and probably disabled by Google.

        It's funny how many otherwise smart business owners and professionals in their own field think that somehow they know more about marketing than most of use who live and breath marketing everyday.


        Originally Posted by ronr View Post

        I understand how some people make you mad and you want to fight back and show them.

        I have an owner who bought a business that I marketed from scratch to over 20K in new clients per month. The new owner said he wanted me to continue. We met, I told him how I would protect his current rankings and marketing to ensure the new clients would keep coming in during the transition. He told me I was too expensive, ended up not paying me a dime and doing exactly the opposite that I told him. He's about to lose all the marketing and ranking I built for the business over the last several years.

        Was I mad, yes. Mad over seeing everything I built about to go away and mad that the new owner is being so stupid. But then I realize he's the loser when his new client flow dries up to almost nothing.

        I only like to work with people I like. If someone is arrogant, doesn't respect me or I think they will will fight or constantly question my advice, I don't care how much they pay.

        For me that's the difference in putting up with a boss and having my own business and choosing who I work with.

        I'm glad this guy showed his true colors upfront. Even he wants me to help him in the future, I'll give them the "I don't think we are a good match"... line.

        Ron
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        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
          Originally Posted by ronr View Post

          Update: Just checked and after only a couple days of doing what I told the new owner not to do, the business's #1 ranking (that I had for years for the old owner) has completely disappeared and probably disabled by Google.

          It's funny how many otherwise smart business owners and professionals in their own field think that somehow they know more about marketing than most of use who live and breath marketing everyday.
          So my question to you... since you can do this for others.. when are you going to start doing it for yourself?

          last year I made a conscious choice to start developing websites for myself. just a few of them. ( giggle ) and it turns out for the most part I am pretty good at developing traffic and sales for my sites, as I am for clients. And the best part... there are no more clients involved.

          Ironically the "Internet Lifestyle" is a lot of freakin work. I work more on my "side" project than a I do my contract work hands down.
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