Taking a job selling windows

by kevd10
86 replies
So after a drunken conversation with a friend of a family member over the weekend, I am just about to dive into something that makes me anxious/excited at the same time.


The job is selling windows to warm leads. That is, a call center does the spade work, qualifies the prospects and sets the appointments. Our job is to visit the home and close.


The product is Windows (actual see through holes in your house, not XP or vista). The pay is commission only, but they pay you £250/week ($350) until you are on your feet and making at least that in commissions. The average sale is around £5k ($7k) and we make 10%.


This is actually something I would normally never go for (commission only), but after speaking to 2 of the guys who have been there for around 6 months, they are making very good money and working only around 3 hours/day. Neither of them came from a sales background, but said the training was first rate and they find their job both enjoyable and easy. Neither have an incentive to lie to me, as they have deep rooted relationships with my family member and I trust them.


I have done my research and asked around a lot as I do currently have a (very poor) job that pays around £300/week which I will be leaving behind with no prospect of return if it goes badly. I also have a mortgage with bills to pay, but no kids.


One of the guys I have spoken to on the subject has actually just retired from being a prison officer and he is a well respected, honest man with a lot of integrity. He decided to take this up in his spare time just out of interest and he says he has never had so much money, and that he wishes he had done it years ago.


My question is, what can I expect? This setup maybe a little different because the lead is already warm and already ready to let a stranger into their home and sell to them.


Any advice would be much appreciated. I respect this community and selling in person is something which really interests me. I have read a couple of books from people such as the main man Claude Whitacre, but I just can't wait to get my feet wet.


Thanks!
#job #selling #taking #windows
  • Profile picture of the author Michael Nguyen
    This all may seem easy and good as your associates have said, but it will only be easy to make the sale if you KNOW how to sell.

    More importantly, you need to be a strong closer! If you're weak in that respect, you're in trouble.

    Study the sales process first of all.

    List
    Prospect
    Initial Contact
    Qualifying

    Presentation
    Closing
    Objection Handling
    Closing

    The bolds seems to have been done for you but you STILL need to make sure the telemarketing team have done their job correctly.

    Let me tell you this, once you learn the sales process, you'll always know where you're at. Humans are predictable so if you can respond to it in more ways than they can, you'll get the sale. Please don't expect it to be easy. Work hard mate!
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  • Yes, everything Michael said.

    And…

    There has to be an abundance of leads.

    Many will be, shall we say not exactly top class.

    But if you get plenty of them you should be able to make the "maths" work.

    X% no good (you don't even get in the door)

    X% would have been good (you get in the door, you can get the sale but not the financing)

    X% reasonable (you get in the door but it's tough to make the sale)

    X% good (you get in the door and with good selling skills you get the order)

    X% excellant (you get in the door and the sale is easy)

    Selling is all about numbers - you have got to make lots of calls.

    So, you need lots of leads.


    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author kevd10
      Originally Posted by Steve The Copywriter View Post

      Yes, everything Michael said.

      And...

      There has to be an abundance of leads.

      Many will be, shall we say not exactly top class.

      But if you get plenty of them you should be able to make the "maths" work.

      X% no good (you don't even get in the door)

      X% would have been good (you get in the door, you can get the sale but not the financing)

      X% reasonable (you get in the door but it's tough to make the sale)

      X% good (you get in the door and with good selling skills you get the order)

      X% excellant (you get in the door and the sale is easy)

      Selling is all about numbers - you have got to make lots of calls.

      So, you need lots of leads.


      Steve


      Hey, thanks for this!


      With regards to the amount of leads, there is an average of around 12-14 appointments/week. What kind of conversion rate would you expect to be typical (once I have undergone the companies sales and product training)? I would estimate at between 1-2 sales/week based on 12-14 appts? Does that sound accurate?
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      • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
        Originally Posted by kevd10 View Post

        Hey, thanks for this!


        With regards to the amount of leads, there is an average of around 12-14 appointments/week. What kind of conversion rate would you expect to be typical (once I have undergone the companies sales and product training)? I would estimate at between 1-2 sales/week based on 12-14 appts? Does that sound accurate?
        Not really you should be aiming at a better than a 1 in 3 or even tighter at 1 -2 or better, but the info given does not really describe the leads and how well qualified they are. Also your skill level will play a big role in your closing rate, so expect to be always improving as you gain more skills.
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      • Originally Posted by kevd10 View Post

        Hey, thanks for this!


        With regards to the amount of leads, there is an average of around 12-14 appointments/week. What kind of conversion rate would you expect to be typical (once I have undergone the companies sales and product training)? I would estimate at between 1-2 sales/week based on 12-14 appts? Does that sound accurate?

        Yes at least that - any less and you can't survive (and the leads are dreadful).

        If the company really "gets" how to book good appointments it should be a lot more.

        Also sales will be higher if there is an irresistible offer and ideally a genuine USP.

        And of course as your sales skills increase so do the orders.


        Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by kevd10 View Post

        Hey, thanks for this!


        With regards to the amount of leads, there is an average of around 12-14 appointments/week. What kind of conversion rate would you expect to be typical (once I have undergone the companies sales and product training)? I would estimate at between 1-2 sales/week based on 12-14 appts? Does that sound accurate?
        Some of the appointments won't really be qualified, some will have bad credit, not be the home owners, husband won't be there, they have to leave in ten minutes, you're the eighth window guy they have talked to...

        In other words, don't expect all the appointments to result in a full presentation.

        When I had people setting my appointments, if they gave me 14 a week;

        5 or 6 would not both be there, or we had to reset for some reason. Or they were unqualified.
        4 or 5 would buy, but have bad credit. Bad enough that we couldn't get them financed.
        3 or 4 would buy, and I'd get paid.

        But, when I set my own appointments, and got my own referrals....8 out of ten would buy. So, I eventually just got my own referrals, and sold to them.

        But when you're new? Present to anyone that will listen. You never know.
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        • Profile picture of the author kevd10
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          Some of the appointments won't really be qualified, some will have bad credit, not be the home owners, husband won't be there, they have to leave in ten minutes, you're the eighth window guy they have talked to...

          In other words, don't expect all the appointments to result in a full presentation.

          When I had people setting my appointments, if they gave me 14 a week;

          5 or 6 would not both be there, or we had to reset for some reason. Or they were unqualified.
          4 or 5 would buy, but have bad credit. Bad enough that we couldn't get them financed.
          3 or 4 would buy, and I'd get paid.

          But, when I set my own appointments, and got my own referrals....8 out of ten would buy. So, I eventually just got my own referrals, and sold to them.

          But when you're new? Present to anyone that will listen. You never know.


          How would one go about getting referrals, generating own leads etc? Obviously I cant just throw around the company name without their say so, so I would imagine doing my own lead gen would be a no-no?
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by kevd10 View Post

            How would one go about getting referrals, generating own leads etc? Obviously I cant just throw around the company name without their say so, so I would imagine doing my own lead gen would be a no-no?
            My book is in my signature. Sales Prospecting. If you already have the book, read it again. Everything is in there.

            If I could tell you everything in 1,000 words, I'd just do it here.

            The companies biggest expense is the lead generation, not your commission. They would love for you to get your own leads.

            But start with their leads. Keep busy, get practiced. Make sales, and then go back later and get referrals.

            Believe me, your company won't mind you seeing your own leads.

            New salespeople are so cute.
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            • Profile picture of the author lolCashlol
              In line with what claude said - most leads/territories/whatever, are garbage. When you go into a sales company that claims to provide leads and territories, you should automatically expect it to suck.

              For example, the recent company I worked for sent me out in a territory where they send new reps ever 6 or so months.

              How the hell am I suppose to be super successful if I am the 10th person that has tried to sell their business verizon? To top it off, many of the other salesmen used the same pitch, gave the same promises, and never delivered.

              The only reason why I worked for that company was because it was a Multi level selling business that would train you to run your own office and direct selling campaigns.

              But, I later realized that I could make a bunch more money on my own, because the territories they provided were from google maps, and I have access to google maps as well.

              I still have the packet they gave me,

              Icebreaker

              short story

              presentation

              close

              recap/rehash

              A
              I
              R

              K
              I
              S
              S

              F
              F
              F

              R
              R
              R

              Yes I like to think I am cute.

              Also in consumer sales - the customers don't care about your product. They care about themselves and their family.

              Find a way to make friends with every person you do an appointment with... get them to talk about themselves... listen and relate... and they will buy your product, even if they don't need it.
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              • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                Banned
                Originally Posted by lolCashlol View Post

                Also in consumer sales - the customers don't care about your product. They care about themselves and their family.

                Find a way to make friends with every person you do an appointment with... get them to talk about themselves... listen and relate... and they will buy your product, even if they don't need it.
                Right, because regardless of what you are selling, and it's price point, if you just smile long enough people will line-up to buy your wares.

                This could possibly be some of the worst 'help' I have ever read on this forum. lol

                I'm assuming you read that in a book.

                Cheers. - Frank

                P.S. You left out the 'back-slapping."
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                • Profile picture of the author lolCashlol
                  Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                  Right, because regardless of what you are selling, and it's price point, if you just smile long enough people will line-up to buy your wares.

                  This could possibly be some of the worst 'help' I have ever read on this forum. lol

                  I'm assuming you read that in a book.

                  Cheers. - Frank

                  P.S. You left out the 'back-slapping."
                  No don't listen to this guy.

                  He completely missed the point of my post.

                  The point WAS and still IS, that consumers buy from people they like and trust, and they DON'T care about you or your product.

                  They care about themselves and their life. If you get them to talk about themselves, and find a way to connect, you will be 90% of the way to the sale. In many cases they will buy simply because they like you.

                  People buy with emotion, not logic. Consumers are emotionally driven.

                  If you ignore my advice like Big Frank says, you will be setting yourself up for failure.
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                  • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by lolCashlol View Post

                    If you ignore my advice like Big Frank says, you will be setting yourself up for failure.
                    You're probably correct. I've only been selling for - I'd be willing to bet - about twice as long as you have probably been on the planet, quite successfully - as in usually number one producer anywhere I have been before having a career in consulting.

                    But, hey, what the hell do I know? I'm a moron!

                    Cheers. - Frank
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                    • Profile picture of the author lolCashlol
                      Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                      You're probably correct. I've only been selling for - I'd be willing to bet - about twice as long as you have probably been on the planet, quite successfully - as in usually number one producer anywhere I have been before having a career in consulting.

                      But, hey, what the hell do I know? I'm a moron!

                      Cheers. - Frank
                      So what?

                      For someone who has such a large ego that they think that every book but their own gives bad advice, I would steer clear of you.

                      You don't know everything, and you need to back off.
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                      • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                        Banned
                        Originally Posted by lolCashlol View Post

                        You don't know everything,
                        Yes - I actually do know everything. You're new here. I'll forgive you for not being aware. I must remember to ask the Mods to make people aware of this fact when they register for the forum. My ego had me believing that everyone already knew this. :-)
                        and you need to back off.
                        I doubt you'll live long enough to experience that. lol

                        Cheers. - Frank
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                    • Profile picture of the author animal44
                      Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                      But, hey, what the hell do I know? I'm a moron!
                      At least you recognise that fact...!
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                      • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                        Banned
                        Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

                        At least you recognise that fact...!
                        Introspection and self-awareness are beautiful concepts. More individuals should employ them. :-) Then less people would think that they are so much better than they actually are.

                        Cheers. - Frank
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                  • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                    Banned
                    You're half right!
                    Originally Posted by lolCashlol View Post

                    consumers buy from people they like and trust,
                    That is true.
                    and they DON'T care about your product.
                    That's ridiculous. So what you are saying is that you can make a living selling crap to people, as long as they like you?

                    Well, I guess you probably can - but how will you sleep at night, unless you are simply totally devoid of morals, business ethics and personal pride in yourself and a belief in the quality of your product?

                    Thanks for showing us what type of human being you are. You wonder why salesmen have a bad reputation? Here's your perfect example. lol

                    I can promise you that you will NEVER have a long, successful career in sales if you use this modus operandi. You'll always be a loser!

                    Cheers. - Frank
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                  • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
                    Originally Posted by lolCashlol View Post

                    No don't listen to this guy.
                    He completely missed the point of my post.

                    The point WAS and still IS, that consumers buy from people they like and trust, and they DON'T care about you or your product.

                    They care about themselves and their life. If you get them to talk about themselves, and find a way to connect, you will be 90% of the way to the sale. In many cases they will buy simply because they like you.

                    People buy with emotion, not logic. Consumers are emotionally driven.

                    If you ignore my advice like Big Frank says, you will be setting yourself up for failure.
                    I Don't think BF missed the point at all, and people should listen, your statement in regards people will buy from you if they love you, regardless of any other factor / not caring about the product, has to be very bad advice.

                    It sounds like you may be newish to sales and may have had a little success and have some very basic understandings but based on what your saying it is your self that is being set up for long term failure if you believe people only buy because they love you.
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                    • Profile picture of the author lolCashlol
                      Originally Posted by tryinhere View Post

                      I Don't think BF missed the point at all, and people should listen, your statement in regards people will buy from you if they love you, regardless of any other factor / not caring about the product, has to be very bad advice.

                      It sounds like you may be newish to sales and may have had a little success and have some very basic understandings but based on what your saying it is your self that is being set up for long term failure if you believe people only buy because they love you.
                      I am new to sales, and I over-reacted. That is my fault.
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  • Profile picture of the author Freebiequeen1999
    Hopefully the company has a "process" in place and sales training

    This should teach you everything ...and I mean everything...about the product, and all the answers to objections....you will need to learn these so that they come easily and "automatically" to you

    Hopefully you will get your draw and learn....follow a top salesperson and see how they do it...
    be a sponge and learn everything you can, ask questions of the top salespeople. Take advantage of all sales tools - brochures, biz cards, powerpoint presentation or whatever....be sure you are familiar with them, well stocked and ready to rumble. Oh..and learn how to process a sale after the close smoothly...nothing worse than seeing a newbie almost lose a sale as they fumble with the credit card swiper <grin>

    Sales can be - and is - "taught".. and I think best taught by getting out there, watching and listening and learning from those who have already "learned". You have a positive attitude and seem "hungry" so you should do well....best of luck to you
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  • Profile picture of the author The Pines
    Couple of things to ponder...


    Originally Posted by kevd10 View Post

    The job is selling windows to warm leads. That is, a call center does the spade work, qualifies the prospects and sets the appointments. Our job is to visit the home and close.


    OK - so where does the call centre get its leads from? Is it from inbound calls responding to press/TV/radio/online ads? Or are they (the call centre) doing outbound calls to 'numbers', hoping to get a lead? Without stating the obvious, the first group are further down the pathway of buying

    Originally Posted by kevd10 View Post

    This is actually something I would normally never go for (commission only), but after speaking to 2 of the guys who have been there for around 6 months, they are making very good money and working only around 3 hours/day. Neither of them came from a sales background, but said the training was first rate and they find their job both enjoyable and easy. Neither have an incentive to lie to me, as they have deep rooted relationships with my family member and I trust them.


    Never forget that they're still double-glazing salesmen, so they tend to be strangers to the truth.


    Originally Posted by kevd10 View Post

    I have done my research and asked around a lot as I do currently have a (very poor) job that pays around £300/week which I will be leaving behind with no prospect of return if it goes badly. I also have a mortgage with bills to pay, but no kids.

    Most sales appointments are made for an evening visit - is it possible for you to keep your day job whilst doing the commission work in the evening?

    Originally Posted by kevd10 View Post

    One of the guys I have spoken to on the subject has actually just retired from being a prison officer and he is a well respected, honest man with a lot of integrity. He decided to take this up in his spare time just out of interest and he says he has never had so much money, and that he wishes he had done it years ago.

    Again, take that with a pinch of salt. Nobody goes into retirement and decides to sell windows (on commission) 'out of interest'.
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  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    Originally Posted by kevd10 View Post

    So after a drunken conversation with a friend of a family member over the weekend, I am just about to dive into something that makes me anxious/excited at the same time.


    The job is selling windows to warm leads. That is, a call center does the spade work, qualifies the prospects and sets the appointments. Our job is to visit the home and close.


    The product is Windows (actual see through holes in your house, not XP or vista). The pay is commission only, but they pay you £250/week ($350) until you are on your feet and making at least that in commissions. The average sale is around £5k ($7k) and we make 10%.


    This is actually something I would normally never go for (commission only), but after speaking to 2 of the guys who have been there for around 6 months, they are making very good money and working only around 3 hours/day. Neither of them came from a sales background, but said the training was first rate and they find their job both enjoyable and easy. Neither have an incentive to lie to me, as they have deep rooted relationships with my family member and I trust them.


    I have done my research and asked around a lot as I do currently have a (very poor) job that pays around £300/week which I will be leaving behind with no prospect of return if it goes badly. I also have a mortgage with bills to pay, but no kids.


    One of the guys I have spoken to on the subject has actually just retired from being a prison officer and he is a well respected, honest man with a lot of integrity. He decided to take this up in his spare time just out of interest and he says he has never had so much money, and that he wishes he had done it years ago.


    My question is, what can I expect? This setup maybe a little different because the lead is already warm and already ready to let a stranger into their home and sell to them.


    Any advice would be much appreciated. I respect this community and selling in person is something which really interests me. I have read a couple of books from people such as the main man Claude Whitacre, but I just can't wait to get my feet wet.


    Thanks!
    I can give you some ideas that may help, especially at first.

    You need to see sales being made. Ask if you can go with an experienced rep on several appointments. Don't talk, just watch. Most sales are either barely missed, or barely made. Expect most sales to be work.

    Use the visual aids the company gives you. It will compensate for your lack of experience, and will built trust in your company. It will also keep your presentation on track.

    You need the mindset that you expect them to buy. Not in an arrogant way, but that buying is the most natural response to your presentation.

    Listen to the prospects. Letting them talk. shows respect, and they will feel a need to return the favor....

    Never say anything bad about a previous purchase they have made. Never. It will kill your chance at a sale. Trust me on that one. Praise an earlier purchase (from a salesman) as smart shopping.

    Never say anything bad about a competitor. No matter what.

    When you get an objection, think of it as just part of the sales process. And when they say, when you fist get there, "We just want an estimate. We aren't buying today"....just understand that everyone says that. And if they don't say that, they are thinking it.
    Don't worry, they haven't seen what you have yet.

    And...if they have some small business, or they sell some small items...or their kid does.....buy it. And buy it before you show them your windows. I looked for opportunities for me to buy some craft or Girl Scout cookies....raffle tickets...anything. They almost always buy.

    If kids are there, or the parents..ask what they think about the benefits. Especially if they live there. If there is a problem, you want it right then. Most likely, you'll get support. Why not? They aren't paying for it.

    If they offer you coffee, or a soft drink, take it, and drink it. No matter how bad it is.
    Never smoke in another person's home. Never use their bathroom. Go before the appointment.

    Make sure the TV is off. Not turned down, off. You can't compete with their shows.

    Anyway, let us know how it goes.
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    • Profile picture of the author Luke Dennison
      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


      Make sure the TV is off. Not turned down, off. You can't compete with their shows.

      Anyway, let us know how it goes.
      Never thought about this, thanks.

      Do you just flat out ask them to turn it off? Should you say "Oh do you mind turning that off I find it gives me headaches?"
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      • Profile picture of the author Freebiequeen1999
        Originally Posted by Luke Dennison View Post

        Never thought about this, thanks.

        Do you just flat out ask them to turn it off? Should you say "Oh do you mind turning that off I find it gives me headaches?"
        Well...JMO...you never want to sound weak or needy when selling (and as a woman I def have had to learn this)

        so you should "assume" the result, just as you will learn to "assume" the sale

        "Let's get this tv turned off so we can hear each other, thanks"

        "Oh before we start, let's turn off the tv so we can hear each other, thanks!"

        said with a happy smile
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by Freebiequeen1999 View Post

          Well...JMO...you never want to sound weak or needy when selling (and as a woman I def have had to learn this)

          so you should "assume" the result, just as you will learn to "assume" the sale

          "Let's get this tv turned off so we can hear each other, thanks"

          "Oh before we start, let's turn off the tv so we can hear each other, thanks!"

          said with a happy smile

          Yeah, it's easy to ask. Nearly everyone will comply. But if the guy just wants to turn it down, I will directly ask if he could record the show...and I promise to be fast. I won't start if the TV is still on. You just can't sell with divided attention. Just having the sound off isn't enough.

          Certainly 99% will comply.
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          • Profile picture of the author lolCashlol
            Most sales are barely missed, or barely made, but don't be too insistent. You can actually have the opposite effect.

            Also, thoroughly investigate the company that you work for. Not all companies that pay high commissions are good at retaining their customers.
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by lolCashlol View Post

              Most sales are barely missed, or barely made, but don't be too insistent. You can actually have the opposite effect.

              Also, thoroughly investigate the company that you work for. Not all companies that pay high commissions are good at retaining their customers.
              10% isn't a high commission.

              Of course, don't be insistent. But understand that the sale is made or lost before you leave.

              You can learn that soon. You can learn that late. But it's a fact. Do what you can to get the sale while you are there...not the next day...not a week later...while you are there.

              In my life, I have sold over 7,000 high end vacuum cleaners in someone'as home. That's about 12,000 presentations. Nearly every one that didn't buy that day...swore to God that they were going to buy later.

              In my entire life, I've had one buy after I left. One.

              Just understand, that the sale is made or lost, on your only visit. And any rationalization, that this prospect is an exception...is a fantasy that will not come true.

              And when you are doing a presentation, the single most profitable thing you can do...is one more closing attempt. Nothing will pay you more. Because after you leave, it's over.

              In home sales is not like retail, or having a route, or phone sales...there is no "building a relationship through repeated visits", before they buy. It's a one night stand. You score or you don't.


              To the OP, You'll find out.
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              • Profile picture of the author animal44
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                Of course, don't be insistent. But understand that the sale is made or lost before you leave.
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                In home sales is not like retail, or having a route, or phone sales...there is no "building a relationship through repeated visits", before they buy. It's a one night stand. You score or you don't.
                This would appear to be true. Frank Bettger, in his time, reputedly America's best salesman, in his book "How I Raised Myself From Failure To Success In Selling" tells of his sales activity:
                • 70% of his sales were made on the first appointment
                • 23% were made on the second appointment
                • 7% were made on the third and after

                Furthermore, he says 50% of his time was spent chasing that 7% who only bought the third time or after.

                So in terms of ROI on the sale, it would seem to be poor use of your time to chase the last 7%.

                However...

                Jay Abraham, in his Strategy of Pre-Eminence states that he feels that it's "only a matter of time before any one individual does business with me".

                That strikes me as contrary to Frank Bettger's findings.

                And it fits with my own experience.

                I had a client who bought from me after 5 years of regular contact.

                I had a prospect who referred me to what was then my biggest client to date. Even though he hadn't bought from me.

                Following up, in a non salesy manner, can help build your reputation and get regular unsolicited referrals.

                "People buy from people they know like and trust"

                Perhaps if Claude had a system of follow up in place, he might have got the next sale, or a sale to the next door neighbour, or cousin Joe on the other side of town...
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                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                  Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

                  Following up, in a non salesy manner, can help build your reputation and get regular unsolicited referrals.

                  "People buy from people they know like and trust"

                  Perhaps if Claude had a system of follow up in place, he might have got the next sale, or a sale to the next door neighbour, or cousin Joe on the other side of town...
                  It's different selling.

                  If you are selling a complex sale to a company, it may take several calls, because the decision making process is systematized...and there are several that need to be in on the sale. It's a different process.

                  Insurance may take a few calls. In the old days, it was a several step sale.

                  When you are selling one on one, to a family, in their home....

                  They buy or they don't....on the first call. Windows isn't a complex sale, it doesn't require several steps. It's a simple sale.

                  I do have a system. I get referrals, qualify them heavily, and they buy. I even wrote a book, explaining the entire process.

                  People do buy from people they like and trust. But that doesn't take repeated calls.

                  Every time I run into a salesman, selling in people's homes....that tells me that it takes several calls to make a sale...it's because they are so incredibly weak.....they just don't ever try to get the sale...even though the people want to buy.

                  Believe me, selling in a consumer's home is different from business sales.
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                  • Profile picture of the author animal44
                    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                    I do have a system. I get referrals, qualify them heavily, and they buy. I even wrote a book, explaining the entire process.
                    You referred to it as a one night stand. Implying that there was no further contact. If there was further contact, then I'd suggest you might get the next sale, or a referral.
                    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                    Believe me, selling in a consumer's home is different from business sales.
                    I have no experience of selling in a consumer's home, however, people are people. I am confident that the same rules apply...
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                    • Profile picture of the author kevd10
                      Originally Posted by animal44 View Post


                      I have no experience of selling in a consumer's home, however, people are people. I am confident that the same rules apply...


                      Come on man, look at what you have just said. Do you have any clue who Claude is? This is the exact type of post that makes the experts around here not want to give out any advice anymore. You have just insisted that Claude is wrong despite the fact that you openly admit never selling in a home.


                      Think I'm guna side with the authority figure on this one.
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                      • Profile picture of the author animal44
                        Originally Posted by kevd10 View Post

                        Do you have any clue who Claude is?
                        I do.
                        Originally Posted by kevd10 View Post

                        You have just insisted that Claude is wrong despite the fact that you openly admit never selling in a home.
                        And I gave my reason. Isn't that what forums are for? Open discussion...?
                        Originally Posted by kevd10 View Post

                        Think I'm guna side with the authority figure on this one.
                        Do you know who Jay Abraham is? He's more famous (and wealthier) than Claude. He is an advocate of JVs. It is the one strategy he would use above all others. Yet the gooroos on this forum rubbish JVs...

                        Business is about relationship more than anything. Claude made the analogy to one night stands. How do you feel about one night stands...? Would a one night stand be a basis for all your relationships...?
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                        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                          A little tid bit into this sales model.. and why specifically Claude's analogy of a "one night stand" is really pretty accurate.

                          #1 Keep in mind here we are discussing business in the UK

                          #2 In the UK, cold calling is not as easy as in the States.

                          #3 This would imply that the business this young man may go work for is relying heavily on Inbound marketing

                          #4 The young mans job is not to set the appointment, its not to find leads, its not to ask how they like their windows once they are installed. It is SPECIFICALLY his job to do 1 thing and 1 thing only. Get the details of the appointments for the day. Arrive at the appointment on time and make the sale. THAT is it.

                          #5 Selling Windows and selling Avon are 2 different things. Avon requires the development of a relationship. Windows.. its a one crack deal. The client has indicated the interest, and it is the sales mans job to go close on said interest. IF interest and offer are not parallel today, they will not be so tomorrow. And if they are.. the prospect has the companies phone number and the process repeats itself.
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                          • Profile picture of the author animal44
                            Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                            #5 Selling Windows and selling Avon are 2 different things. Avon requires the development of a relationship. Windows.. its a one crack deal. The client has indicated the interest, and it is the sales mans job to go close on said interest. IF interest and offer are not parallel today, they will not be so tomorrow. And if they are.. the prospect has the companies phone number and the process repeats itself.
                            I disagree. I have a specific example in replacement kitchens, but OP is clearly not interested, so I'm bowing out of this discussion...
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                            • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                              Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

                              I disagree. I have a specific example in replacement kitchens, but OP is clearly not interested, so I'm bowing out of this discussion...
                              Answer me this... HOW can you have a specific example, if you have never been in a home to sell something?

                              Here is a better question to throw at you. Through this entire discussion and in terms of the nature of the OP and the Job description laid out, HOW do you know the Business does not have a method of follow up? - Again, it will be the OP's job to make the presentation and get a yes or no, nothing more and nothing less. Who is to say that it is not another persons job to follow up with the reject sales attempts?

                              We are talking a business with defined positions and roles here.

                              I will be honest here and say this. As a business owner, sending someone out on 2 to 3 calls a day and all the sales man has to do is make 1 sale a week to make a better life for himself.. I would not call that a great amount of motivation. I would damn skippy incorporate a follow up process.

                              THAT has nothing to do with the sales man and everything to do with the business owner and their ability to build and develop systems to optimize each and every opportunity.

                              Seriously the guy is going to go out and measure a bunch of windows and give a price. I bet more than half the presentations are nothing more than giving quotes. The prospect is waiting til tomorrow for the next guy from the next company to come along and do the same. The reality is the prospect would be stupid not to.

                              Me personally.. I sell. this would be a question I would ask. There is no shame in my game. There is a list of things I would do in this scenario... but this is not the time nor place to present those ideas. The young man needs to learn the Company system before he starts goofing with it. you gotta step in before you step out.
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                              • Profile picture of the author animal44
                                Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                                Answer me this... HOW can you have a specific example, if you have never been in a home to sell something?
                                Sure. With apologies to OP.

                                I worked with a replacement kitchen company on their marketing. One of the things we did was replace their sales scripts and methodology... Sales (and profits) skyrocketed...
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                        • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                          Banned
                          Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

                          IWould a one night stand be a basis for all your relationships...?
                          In a perfect world - absolutely! :-)

                          Cheers. - Frank
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                        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                          Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

                          Would a one night stand be a basis for all your relationships...?
                          The difference is, whether you are asking a girl out to start a relationship, or to have sex.

                          The purpose of the Window appointment is to get a sale. It's the reason you are there.

                          You are not there to begin the process of starting a relationship. You could do that. But we are talking about a rep's time in front of a prospect...not a phone call, not direct mail.

                          If you spend two hours in front of a prospect, that is more than the equivalent of 10 direct mail pieces, several phone calls, a baseball game with the prospect, and a series of e-mails.

                          If you drop a bomb on a man, and it doesn't kill him, repeated punches to his stomach isn't going to do it either. The in home sales presentation is the bomb.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                      Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

                      You referred to it as a one night stand. Implying that there was no further contact. If there was further contact, then I'd suggest you might get the next sale, or a referral..
                      If you continually contact consumers at their home, you will eventually wear a few down. But you'll make far more money, if you just give it everything on the presentation. I've done it both ways, and had many reps try the "They will eventually buy, after several attempts"....it never works. And I just have to watch them fail at that idea until it sinks in.



                      Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

                      I have no experience of selling in a consumer's home, however, people are people. I am confident that the same rules apply...
                      You are right. People are people. Human nature is the same, no matter if they are at work, or a home. I get why you are thinking this. It isn't that the people are different, or even the products.

                      It's that business sales sometimes require multiple visits. You have to talk to the VP, then a conference call with the CEO and VP, then someone there does research, then you send a proposal...then they have questions.

                      The structure of them making a decision is different.

                      When you are in a homeowner's home, with both the husband and the wife, there isn't anyone else to talk to. Everyone that makes a decision...is right in front of you. Everything you need to sell, is also right in front of them.

                      There simply isn't any need for them to have another appointment, or repeated calls.
                      If they don't buy, it's because their desire to buy isn't high enough. And the desire to buy never increases after you leave.

                      I swear to you, and I know this is counterintuitive...every in home salesperson with a year or more experience will tell you...they don't buy after repeated attempts....no matter what the prospect says or promised.

                      The prospect is in heat when you are there. They never get more in heat, later.

                      If you ever sold in people's homes, you'd know.


                      And every new salesperson thinks like you do. And I understand why.

                      Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                      I will be honest here and say this. As a business owner, sending someone out on 2 to 3 calls a day and all the sales man has to do is make 1 sale a week to make a better life for himself.. I would not call that a great amount of motivation. I would damn skippy incorporate a follow up process.
                      I should mention, that when I had a sales organization, I had a follow up system.

                      New reps are weak. Sales are left n the table. People are ready to buy, and the rep just gives up, or changes the subject, or is afraid to ask them to buy.

                      So, for the newer reps, I had my sales manager call every person that didn't buy, the next day. We asked if the rep was polite, and pretended it was a customer service call. At the end, we would ask them why they didn't buy. They would tell us, and half the time we could make the deal.

                      Why? The reps were terrible. New salespeople invariably walk out on sales that were within inches of buying.

                      We tried the same thing with people that my managers or I had presented to....nope, never converted a one.

                      Here is why;
                      New people present to ten couples, sell two.....but two more were almost sold. We could call the next day, and get half of them.

                      If I went on a call, or one of my managers, 70-80% would buy that visit. The people who didn't buy..no matter what they said...never would. Because if there was a chance at a sale, we sold.


                      The "One night stand" example.

                      Here is why it applies. Pretend that you have a date, and you go back to your apartment, and you are making out, and now...you're both undressed.

                      As you slip into bed, the person says, "You know, why don't we finish this next Tuesday? I need to talk to my Mother, to see what she thinks"

                      What? Now, what do I know? It ain't happening. No matter what she says after that..it ain't happening.

                      Maybe a tad crude, but that's the parallel.

                      In business sales, (comparing to one night stand), you ask someone out, you get a cup of coffee, and then you both agree to see each other again. Then you have several dates...building trust and a relationship...and then you get happy.

                      The sequence of events is different.

                      With in home sales, all the dates are combined into that one visit.
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                      • Profile picture of the author animal44
                        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                        And every new salesperson thinks like you do. And I understand why.
                        I'm as old as you are (well, you're six months older...). I started my first business in 1977. Based on what you said in my millionaire thread, I've made more money in a shorter space of time than you have. Maybe you have something to learn from this "new salesperson"

                        OP, I promise, I'm out of this thread...
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                        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                          Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

                          I'm as old as you are (well, you're six months older...). I started my first business in 1977. Based on what you said in my millionaire thread, I've made more money in a shorter space of time than you have. Maybe you have something to learn from this "new salesperson"

                          OP, I promise, I'm out of this thread...
                          I'm sure I do. But we are not talking about running a business, growing a business, or marketing. We are talking about in home sales. I've run a very successful in home sales organization for decades. And I've been selling myself for decades. I learn more every day.

                          And you have been very successful. And I love the fact that you have been more successful than me. But not at what we are talking about.....which is in home sales.

                          Do you have any idea how many thousands of times a new rep has told me that they have a prospect (that we sent them to) that is going to buy later?

                          The only thing I can do, is let them find out...on their own, that it isn't true. Nothing I say can convince them. And these are smart people.

                          It usually takes them about a month to realize the reality. That's about how long it took me.

                          Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

                          Do you know who Jay Abraham is? He's more famous (and wealthier) than Claude. He is an advocate of JVs. It is the one strategy he would use above all others. Yet the gooroos on this forum rubbish JVs...
                          Joint Ventures are the way to go. In fact, a form of joint venture is one of the main ways I prospected, when I was actively selling in people's homes.

                          But that isn't what we are discussing. We are not talking about the prospecting (marketing). We are talking about the presentation, and followups.

                          Whether you are prospecting by using joint ventures, advertising, phone reps, direct mail, referrals.......after you give your presentation, they either buy..or they don't. And the sale is made on that visit, or never. This is only in home sales. Other buying processes are different.
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                • Profile picture of the author longrobnc
                  Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

                  This would appear to be true. Frank Bettger, in his time, reputedly America's best salesman, in his book “How I Raised Myself From Failure To Success In Selling” tells of his sales activity:
                  • 70% of his sales were made on the first appointment
                  • 23% were made on the second appointment
                  • 7% were made on the third and after

                  Furthermore, he says 50% of his time was spent chasing that 7% who only bought the third time or after.

                  So in terms of ROI on the sale, it would seem to be poor use of your time to chase the last 7%.

                  However...

                  Jay Abraham, in his Strategy of Pre-Eminence states that he feels that it's "only a matter of time before any one individual does business with me".

                  That strikes me as contrary to Frank Bettger's findings.

                  And it fits with my own experience.

                  I had a client who bought from me after 5 years of regular contact.

                  I had a prospect who referred me to what was then my biggest client to date. Even though he hadn't bought from me.

                  Following up, in a non salesy manner, can help build your reputation and get regular unsolicited referrals.

                  "People buy from people they know like and trust"

                  Perhaps if Claude had a system of follow up in place, he might have got the next sale, or a sale to the next door neighbour, or cousin Joe on the other side of town...

                  I don't think your best salespeople should be spending a great deal of time following up if they have a full pipeline. We just started doing 1 call closing for our outside sales reps (at their request). After that, it's taken over by someone in our office that does a survey to find out what the customer liked and disliked about our salesperson/ product. This has proven to flush out a lot of unstated objections. The "Surveyor" then quickly switches hats and then goes for the close. It's ok for some to spend time doing this, but we have not gotten a pay off by having our best people come in to the office and chase down prospects that didn't buy the 1st time out. We really squeeze to get 10-12% of those that didn't buy the 1st go around. We generally have to lower the price or give things away to get them to close. We use the commission incentive to keep our office staff busy during down times and they love the chance to make some extra coin.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                    There are a few people in this thread who actually KNOW what they are talking about - Claude, Frank, John and I may have missed one or two - and have "been there, done that".

                    There are quite a few posting with the "I haven't done it myself, but...." and they are clueless. They may mean well (I'm not convinced) but they have it wrong.

                    I've sold high dollar products by appt in homes - I've sold product lines of major manufacturers into groceries and military commissaries - and I've sold a lot of real estate, residential and some commercial.

                    The selling methods are not the same...at all. What works in one type of selling will bomb in a different setting.

                    Is there any way to keep your current job - take a vacation without pay or work evenings selling windows - so you can test your ability to sell before you burn your bridges? Just a thought.
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      • Profile picture of the author foxrun
        You can make money doing this you will have to talk to a lot of people, have you tried Craigslist?
        Lots of sales are being made every day there.
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        • Profile picture of the author kevd10
          Originally Posted by foxrun View Post

          You can make money doing this you will have to talk to a lot of people, have you tried Craigslist?
          Lots of sales are being made every day there.
          Leads are provided for me and I have recently found out that they come from inbound enquiries.
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          • Profile picture of the author theheron
            If any of this helps but I used to sell double glazing in the UK. I did it for about 6 years .It is an industry that has a very high turn over of staff,thats because very few people actually become good enough at it to make money.But it is possible to make alot at it.
            You may find that what the company has told you so far is not the whole truth.
            I dont think the AOV will be 5k and it's unlikely you will get 12 to 14 leads a week unless they are spread all over the country. Will you be happy to drive 1-200 miles to an appointment?
            As for your conversion on the types of leads you will be given when you start I think it will be about 1in 10.
            Not trying to but you off, I hope you try it and become successful. Maybe you already are? Let us know.
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            • Profile picture of the author kevd10
              Originally Posted by theheron View Post

              If any of this helps but I used to sell double glazing in the UK. I did it for about 6 years .It is an industry that has a very high turn over of staff,thats because very few people actually become good enough at it to make money.But it is possible to make alot at it.
              You may find that what the company has told you so far is not the whole truth.
              I dont think the AOV will be 5k and it's unlikely you will get 12 to 14 leads a week unless they are spread all over the country. Will you be happy to drive 1-200 miles to an appointment?
              As for your conversion on the types of leads you will be given when you start I think it will be about 1in 10.
              Not trying to but you off, I hope you try it and become successful. Maybe you already are? Let us know.
              Started selling and the numbers are pretty accurate. So far I have had 18 appointments in 10 days, and made 4 sales. Once I become better I would imagine the conversion rate to be close to 1 in 3. The highest sale was for 12k. All in all I have made almost 3k in 10 days, maybe if some cancel during cool off then I will make less.
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              • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                Good for you! I hope none cancel (though I know that's a factor).

                One caution - it's exciting when you start selling and earn more money. Remember many sales businesses are somewhat seasonal - there are great months and poor months for sales.

                Also live on less than you earn on 100% commission. Either tuck money away or prepay your bills so in months when sales are slow you don't have to stress about it.

                If you start out this well - you may be a born salesman.
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              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                Originally Posted by kevd10 View Post

                Started selling and the numbers are pretty accurate. So far I have had 18 appointments in 10 days, and made 4 sales. Once I become better I would imagine the conversion rate to be close to 1 in 3. The highest sale was for 12k. All in all I have made almost 3k in 10 days, maybe if some cancel during cool off then I will make less.
                My best averages for making sales to cold called prospects is about 50%. Remember, if anyone in your organization is accomplishing something, it's possible for you as well.

                And you need to learn how to lock in sales, so they don't cancel. One way, is to explain again, after they sign, what they should expect. Manage their expectations. Another way, is to give them a small gift, of do a small favor, after they buy....but before they leave.
                Leaving, the second after they buy, is a mistake. Answer any questions they have. When you leave, they should be sure.. Anything you can do, to make the sale feel more established, to them..helps.

                Getting a few referrals from them, before you leave, helps cement the sale. The higher the deposit you get, the more it cements the sale.

                If you are getting more that 5% cancel, you really need to address the problem.
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              • Profile picture of the author theheron
                Well all I can say is very well done. Top man!! What sort of area are you covering , is it very big?
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                • Profile picture of the author kevd10
                  The area is the north east of England, from Northumberland to York. Probably around 200 miles. We get .45p/litre back on fuel also. Most prospects are sold on the finance plan which allows buy now, start paying back monthly 12 months later. The company does kitchens and bathrooms as well so I pitch a few of those.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                    Originally Posted by kevd10 View Post

                    The area is the north east of England, from Northumberland to York. Probably around 200 miles. We get .45p/litre back on fuel also. Most prospects are sold on the finance plan which allows buy now, start paying back monthly 12 months later. The company does kitchens and bathrooms as well so I pitch a few of those.
                    Is it possible to get a lst of customers that bought (from your company) kitchens, bathrooms, and windows....a year ago or so?

                    Those people are already qualified for financing, are used to buying from your company, are used to making a decision while the salesperson is there, and are used to financing...

                    You cannot get a more qualified prospect. Those names are like a vein of gold.

                    You don't even need the map. You've already found the gold.

                    The last few years I was selling in people's homes, I exclusively prospected past customers, and referrals from past customers. I was overbooked, and better than 80% bought from me.
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                    • Profile picture of the author kevd10
                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                      Is it possible to get a lst of customers that bought (from your company) kitchens, bathrooms, and windows....a year ago or so?

                      Those people are already qualified for financing, are used to buying from your company, are used to making a decision while the salesperson is there, and are used to financing...

                      You cannot get a more qualified prospect. Those names are like a vein of gold.

                      You don't even need the map. You've already found the gold.

                      The last few years I was selling in people's homes, I exclusively prospected past customers, and referrals from past customers. I was overbooked, and better than 80% bought from me.
                      Yes, the company uses a 3rd party telephone prospecting company and segments their targets and has a existing customer process.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Oziboomer
                        Originally Posted by kevd10 View Post

                        Yes, the company uses a 3rd party telephone prospecting company and segments their targets and has a existing customer process.
                        Yes...

                        ...but can you access the map to the gold directly?

                        You may want to see if you can access even the clients that may have dropped out of the current contact schedule and initiate some form of reactivation even if it is just an invitation to...

                        "have a quick seal analysis on your double glazing"

                        I know you bought our product over XXX months or years ago and I'm in the area next week and I'd love to run a "Seal analysis check" on our windows just to ensure that everything is functioning well and there are no signs of degradation.

                        Get back in the home and be sure to expand their knowledge of your other areas of speciality.

                        You could unlock a ton of valuable business right there and then especially if the previous sales rep has moved on.
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                        • Profile picture of the author kevd10
                          Originally Posted by Oziboomer View Post

                          Yes...

                          ...but can you access the map to the gold directly?

                          You may want to see if you can access even the clients that may have dropped out of the current contact schedule and initiate some form of reactivation even if it is just an invitation to...

                          "have a quick seal analysis on your double glazing"

                          I know you bought our product over XXX months or years ago and I'm in the area next week and I'd love to run a "Seal analysis check" on our windows just to ensure that everything is functioning well and there are no signs of degradation.

                          Get back in the home and be sure to expand their knowledge of your other areas of speciality.

                          You could unlock a ton of valuable business right there and then especially if the previous sales rep has moved on.
                          But I don't have any other areas of speciality. I sell windows. Plus my company's product comes with a 10 year guarantee
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                          • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                            Originally Posted by kevd10 View Post

                            But I don't have any other areas of speciality. I sell windows. Plus my company's product comes with a 10 year guarantee

                            You stated your company does Kitchens and bathrooms... so yes there is other areas! I understand they are training you on selling windows.. but you might wish to ask at a later point once you have the window stuff down to be trained in the finer points of Kitchens and bathrooms as well.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Oziboomer
                            Originally Posted by kevd10 View Post

                            But I don't have any other areas of speciality. I sell windows. Plus my company's product comes with a 10 year guarantee
                            There's the opportunity right there.

                            Even better you have a long guarantee because I bet there is little follow-up in relation to how the product is performing.

                            An ideal opportunity to approach as part of your on-going guarantee....and whilst you are there....oh....did you know our kitchens and bathrooms have a similar warranty?
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                            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                              Originally Posted by Oziboomer View Post

                              An ideal opportunity to approach as part of your on-going guarantee....and whilst you are there....oh....did you know our kitchens and bathrooms have a similar warranty?
                              Yeah. I just about can't think of a better prospect, than one that you are providing service under warranty.
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                              • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
                                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                Yeah. I just about can't think of a better prospect, than one that you are providing service under warranty.
                                I can. A better prospect is one who wants what you have right now.

                                For some reason...they haven't pulled the trigger yet, but they have
                                decided to buy. Their biggest concern is...from whom.

                                The situation is sort of like your life insurance deal, Claude.

                                It doesn't happen every day. But, it would happen more often to any
                                salesperson who learns to qualify faster.
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                                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                  Originally Posted by Ron Lafuddy View Post

                                  I can. A better prospect is one who wants what you have right now.
                                  Yup.

                                  To me, the whole purpose of cold calling is to find those people. In my seminars, I say, "Right now, in your town, there are between 10 and 100 people who want to buy what you are selling. They are actively looking to buy. Your job is to find them before they buy from someone else".

                                  This is also the person I want to attract with my marketing, especially online. I want the buyers to call, and nobody else.

                                  They may be a better prospect....

                                  But customers you are servicing under warranty are far easier to find, and they are predisposed to buy from you.
                                  They are also more pre-qualified.

                                  I'm actually honored that you remember my insurance story.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author lolCashlol
                                    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                    Yup.

                                    To me, the whole purpose of cold calling is to find those people. In my seminars, I say, "Right now, in your town, there are between 10 and 100 people who want to buy what you are selling. They are actively looking to buy. Your job is to find them before they buy from someone else".
                                    That IS a good way of looking at it, but I would like to throw something in there.

                                    What about if you are selling a product that only nets you $100 in commission, and you have to make 500 calls just to get that $100.

                                    Would it be practical to make 500 calls a week just to get one of those 10 people?

                                    Wouldn't you be starving at some point?

                                    Wouldn't this only work with high ticket products with large residuals?
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                                    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                      Originally Posted by lolCashlol View Post

                                      That IS a good way of looking at it, but I would like to throw something in there.

                                      What about if you are selling a product that only nets you $100 in commission, and you have to make 500 calls just to get that $100.

                                      Would it be practical to make 500 calls a week just to get one of those 10 people?

                                      Wouldn't you be starving at some point?

                                      Wouldn't this only work with high ticket products with large residuals?
                                      There are several ways to answer that. All are correct. I'll give it a shot;

                                      I wouldn't cold call, if my commission was $100, and I would only sell one in 500 calls. I personally wouldn't do it. No matter how fast you dialed, you wouldn't make much money.

                                      Personally, I wouldn't make 3 calls to make $100. But if I were starting out, I would.

                                      Make 500 calls to get a client for $100 a month? I would think that would be profitable.

                                      Mostly, the way I get those "ready to buy" customers is through marketing online. It's always profitable to do that, at least in my experience.

                                      And there are ways to select your prospects so they are far more likely to be viable prospects. For example, lets say you are on the phone, selling a product for cleaning in ground pools. You make $100 commision on a sale.

                                      You get a list of people with in ground pools. You call them at the beginning of the Summer. That list may make it worthwhile.

                                      But let's say you make a $1,000 commission on a sale (I don't think of that as a really big sale), how many calls can you make in a day? If you get two net sales a week, that's not a bad living.

                                      But cold calling doesn't mean just calling random phone numbers. You can call a list of people that are more likely to buy. Or a list of past buyers. Or a list of people who are perfectly matched to your ideal customer.

                                      I used to spend $240 in PPC to sell a $5.95 subscription to my newsletter. Why? Because the average subscriber paid me about $600, before they left.

                                      And when I say "10 to 100 people are looking to buy" that universe is really pretty small. I don't have to talk to 500 people to find one. Maybe 30 or 40....because you aren't calling everyone.

                                      And this is a key that I didn't mention.....Maybe the biggest key.

                                      I said "10 to 100 people looking to buy today" (or "right now") Every day, those people add up. So, at the end of three months,there may be a few thousand people that are still in that "Thinking about buying" mode. The only thing that normally gets them out of that buying mode is...buying from someone else. That guy may as well be you.


                                      And this is out of the scope of your question, but $100 a sale? It isn't harder to sell services that will make you $1,000 a sale or more. Just a thought.
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  • Profile picture of the author Freebiequeen1999
    Very good advice Claude

    I do think that in Biz to Biz sales you can/should do follow ups, they do shop around more and change mind...or (maybe) do have to consult partner or silent partner or whatever

    But consumer sales? Big difference....call backs are a waste of time on phone, in person or especially in home no matter what the product is

    It is possible to "close hard" without being too pushy or salesy ....you do need to start right from the beginning of the sale and show them the benefit, gain trust...personalize it....again show the benefit..
    "Paint the picture" ...speaking "as if" they bought and show how great it will be

    Everyone wants to know "what's in it for me"
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Being a former appointment setter (employee) for a windows and siding company, I can tell you that within 100 appointments , either 100 more or less, I have set exactly 1800 appointments for specifically windows and siding salesmen, personally, on the phone, in exactly nine months of prior experience, working as a professional telephone appointment setter, with a transient team of around 10 different windows and siding salesman.


    Over the averages I would say that, as an "ok" windows and siding salesman, then expect to make 30k per year. As a "good" one, expect to make 40-50k..., and as a "phenomenal" one, then expect 60k or reasonably higher...


    Anything above 6 figures, and you are some freakish exception, unless you are working strictly commercial leads and land a couple of sky scrapers or something, with thousands of windows.


    EDIT: Oh Yeah, I almost forgot: Expect that 40% of your sales or more aren't going to come from the free telemarketed leads provided, but rather ONES THAT YOU SET YOURSELF WHILE OUT IN THE FIELD.


    It's just the way it works.

    If you can sell at ALL, then you can always make more money doing it for yourself.

    Warm leads or not...sales is sales. It's all hard...and the only magic bullet is going through the fire and becoming GOOD at the thing that 2 out of three men can't even take for 30 days...


    If you can be that good, (Good enough to make 40k on commission) , then why do it for someone else, when you can make 10 times the money doing it for yourself?


    That's my educated opinion.


    Take it for what it's worth.


    If you are a good salesman, it can be a good job... but it certainly isn't a dream job by any stretch.


    A lot of things sound amazing in drunk conversations. lol
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  • Profile picture of the author kevd10
    Wow. I am pretty amazed at the response to this thread. I truly believe that there is no other industry/interest in existence where expert advice is so readily available, so thankyou for that everyone.


    JD, you say that more money can be made doing it for yourself? What exactly do you mean by this? Do you mean finding leads and setting appointments yourself and still selling the windows?


    Thanks again guys. I may be biased because it is my thread, but I think this would greatly benefit others if it were stickied (maybe after a few more pages of advice aimed in my direction lol).
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    The night before your appointment, drive by & throw a rock through a window.

    Easy sale the next morning.










    Just kidding...
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  • Profile picture of the author ChrisNosal
    Banned
    I took a job at a car dealership on a whim once, and I realized even though I could sell no problem online, thinking in realtime on my feet was a great experience for me.

    I learned a lot about business, about negotiation, about developing a thick skin and becoming fearless - you never know what you're going to get - always embrace life.
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    • Profile picture of the author eccj
      Originally Posted by ChrisNosal View Post

      I took a job at a car dealership on a whim once, and I realized even though I could sell no problem online, thinking in realtime on my feet was a great experience for me.

      I learned a lot about business, about negotiation, about developing a thick skin and becoming fearless - you never know what you're going to get - always embrace life.
      You could sell no problem online but you took a job at a dealership? Come on man enough already.
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  • Profile picture of the author Freebiequeen1999
    Why would doing your own lead gen be a NO NO?? Honestly I hope the 10% commission is on top of a salary as that is pretty slim....I would hope they would encourage you to go out and get leads and help you

    when you sell someone - follow up and ask for referrals..chances are their neighbors could use new windows too
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    • Profile picture of the author kevd10
      Originally Posted by Freebiequeen1999 View Post

      Why would doing your own lead gen be a NO NO?? Honestly I hope the 10% commission is on top of a salary as that is pretty slim....I would hope they would encourage you to go out and get leads and help you

      when you sell someone - follow up and ask for referrals..chances are their neighbors could use new windows too


      10% on a 5k product is £500. One sale a week earns me double my current salary. As I said in the OP, the job is commission only.
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      • Profile picture of the author alanj
        Originally Posted by kevd10 View Post

        10% on a 5k product is £500. One sale a week earns me double my current salary. As I said in the OP, the job is commission only.


        Don't forget though that you'll be using your own car and fuel in the UK aint cheap. You could easily use £100 per week.
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        • Profile picture of the author Michael Nguyen
          Originally Posted by alanj View Post

          Don't forget though that you'll be using your own car and fuel in the UK aint cheap. You could easily use £100 per week.
          Correct, this alone can kill your motivation if you go to the wrong appointment.
          Case in point: Over a year ago, I drove 200 miles round trip for nothing because I didn't qualify properly *facepalm*

          Make sure they qualify via

          B - Budget: They can afford it
          A - Authority - All decision makers present
          N - Need - Their motivations for new windows (Also great for closing)
          T - Timing - Able to make a decision in a timely manner. On the spot in your case.

          If they don't qualify with the above, don't meet them until they do.

          I'm excited for you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Nguyen
    Make a deal with the company directors that with any leads you source yourself you get 15%. Use your sales skills to close on that arrangement. Get the job already!
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  • Profile picture of the author Freebiequeen1999
    Since John Durham nicely pointed out to me that "everyone here is here to get paid" maybe I should do the same. I am done giving good free advice out ...I have shared a lot of sales techniques
    I would not even share affiliate info

    pay me ...otherwise i will just be here for the giggles
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    • Profile picture of the author kevd10
      Originally Posted by Freebiequeen1999 View Post

      Since John Durham nicely pointed out to me that "everyone here is here to get paid" maybe I should do the same. I am done giving good free advice out ...I have shared a lot of sales techniques
      I would not even share affiliate info

      pay me ...otherwise i will just be here for the giggles
      Not sure who this is aimed at, seems weird actually since nobody said anything out of line to you.
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      • Profile picture of the author Freebiequeen1999
        Originally Posted by kevd10 View Post

        Not sure who this is aimed at, seems weird actually since nobody said anything out of line to you.
        It was not directed to anyone thanks
        Just a general observation LOL

        it might be interesting to google some folks, past wso's and 'support"

        apparently the only thing this board is good for is selling stuff - that is what I was told here and I also read it on the other board

        it does get kind of sad
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        • Profile picture of the author kevd10
          Originally Posted by Freebiequeen1999 View Post

          It was not directed to anyone thanks
          Just a general observation LOL

          it might be interesting to google some folks, past wso's and 'support"

          apparently the only thing this board is good for is selling stuff - that is what I was told here and I also read it on the other board

          it does get kind of sad


          So your point is aimed at some people's advice in the thread? Coz that makes more sense. Although I do feel like some of the advice from some of the members, yourself included, has been exemplary and very generous.
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        • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
          Originally Posted by Freebiequeen1999 View Post


          it might be interesting to google some folks, past wso's and 'support"
          You've been around a while. I don't think you'd be surprised at what you'd find.
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    • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
      Originally Posted by Freebiequeen1999 View Post

      Since John Durham nicely pointed out to me that "everyone here is here to get paid" maybe I should do the same. ...otherwise i will just be here for the giggles
      Originally Posted by Freebiequeen1999 View Post

      it might be interesting to google some folks, past wso's and 'support" it does get kind of sad
      I'm guessing that you have checked out the kids in your own school yard before making that call in general.
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      • Profile picture of the author lolCashlol
        Ugh.

        One of my biggest weaknesses as a new sales person is that I cave under the slightest sales resistance.

        As soon as I hear, "I'm not interested, let me think about it, sorry", I teleport 2 feet away from the door outside on the curb.
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        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
          Originally Posted by lolCashlol View Post

          As soon as I hear, "I'm not interested, let me think about it, sorry", I teleport 2 feet away from the door outside on the curb.

          That's just to funny!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
    Originally Posted by kevd10 View Post

    but after speaking to 2 of the guys who have been there for around 6 months, they are making very good money and working only around 3 hours/day. Neither of them came from a sales background, but said the training was first rate and they find their job both enjoyable and easy. Neither have an incentive to lie to me, as they have deep rooted relationships with my family member and I trust them.
    If I were you I would take the job and see what happens... but the one thing that struck me about the original post was the above statement. They have only been with the company 6 months.

    The questions I would ask... how many sales guys are there? AND is there any body that has been around for a while doing this?
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    • Profile picture of the author kevd10
      Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

      If I were you I would take the job and see what happens... but the one thing that struck me about the original post was the above statement. They have only been with the company 6 months.

      The questions I would ask... how many sales guys are there? AND is there any body that has been around for a while doing this?


      The company is the industry leader in the North East of England, been around for 20 years and advertises heavily (TV, Radio etc). So I guess they have always had salespeople. Not sure how many sales guys they have.


      They are willing to pay me a basic wage until I get on my feet and I am making 1 sale a week comfortably (This would earn me more than my current job by some way).
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  • Profile picture of the author alanj
    There's been some excellent advice on this thread and Claude's is amongst the best . In your position as a commissioned salesman you'll likely have one shot at the sale, then that lead will be dealt with by someone else, so remember buyers are liars when they say they'll let you know its about as likely to be true as a debtor saying the cheques in the post.
    Get yourself out with the top performers if you can, as Peretos principle is deadly accurate in sales, 80% of the sales are made by the top 20% of salesmen .
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  • Profile picture of the author alanj
    I've just set back up in kitchens after a long time out following a bad head injury and on-going complications and am suffering the opposite problem, I'm dying to get stuck in but am struggling desperately for cost effective leads and would welcome any ideas that are relatively cheap to implement , to avoid ambushing the thread I'll start a new one
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