$200.00 a day for doing NOTHING!

by gjabiz
66 replies
That is my pipe dream. I'm a lazy old man who would like to make 200 bux a day and do nothing to get it.

To that end, I've been testing many ideas over the last 2 years.

The best chance I have of reaching my high altitude goals appears to be:

Some variation of the 9 x 12 or postcard and/or EDDM market.

One, I'm not going out of my house to call on businesses NOR will I call them on the phone or talk to them in any way and any email sent has to be done by someone else.

This has to be outsourced.

Two, one week or less turn-around. The 9 x 12 guys may take weeks to fill up their cards, too slow for me.

Three, NOT touching any product, this has to be sent out either to USPS or to whomever is going to distribute.

Now boxes in businesses where people fill out info for a drawing and small racks which hold offers gets close, as long as someone collects the boxes (and sets them up) and I just collect my play money...ok then.

I think some of you guys are close, and a twist here and there might get me what I want, willing to spend a few MINUTES a day to manage and oil the cash machine...and if it can be scaled, even better.

The problems so far: EDDM 9x12 TIME and effort to get advertisers and the cost of postage.

The 6x9 with only 6 offers, EDDM eats into profits...how to eliminate postage? Tested door delivery, unreliable delivery people and perceived as door spam. A shotgun approach with too low of a profit (if I don't want to do anything).

Boxes and fishbowls, hard to get a business to give up counter space, too much counting...too sloppy.

Flyers in small footprint counter holders, locations hard to get and keep stocked, a big spender advertiser needed.

There is a combination in there, or maybe something totally different. I want the science of direct response, not the guessing of IM...

So, if someone sends out 100 USPS solicitations and I get a 3% response, with one covering costs and 2 are profit, then we can scale that up.

Any and all ideas appreciated or even different directions considered.

gjabiz

PS The lazy old man thanks you.
#day
  • Profile picture of the author The Pines
    $200 a day to do nothing???


    Surely some sort of .gov job fits the bill nicely???
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    • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
      That is one perception we have of many of our .gov workers.

      When I say I want to do nothing...I want to build a "machine", a cash printing machine where all I have to do is oil it now and then.

      Seriously, 200 a day is a very modest goal...but considering I don't want to spend the time to set up a more lucrative machine, one which could produce 10x or even 100 times that amount, which requires work to do...

      This machine involves other people doing the work, once it is built, and I will just check on it from the beach now and then.

      If I have a known universe of about 350,000 targets (and I do)...and I want to have 100 solicitations a day that get a 3% response with a NET profit of 200 it means each response is worth about 67 dollars each.

      So it would take 2 years to reach them all, but, even the initial recipients could be contacted over and over and there is an ongoing renewals...a very modest machine could easily accomplish this.

      gjabiz


      Originally Posted by The Pines View Post

      $200 a day to do nothing???


      Surely some sort of .gov job fits the bill nicely???
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  • Profile picture of the author DABK
    Merry an old fart who has investments that produce $200 a day and who will die within the week.

    Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post

    That is my pipe dream. I'm a lazy old man who would like to make 200 bux a day and do nothing to get it.

    To that end, I've been testing many ideas over the last 2 years.

    The best chance I have of reaching my high altitude goals appears to be:

    Some variation of the 9 x 12 or postcard and/or EDDM market.

    One, I'm not going out of my house to call on businesses NOR will I call them on the phone or talk to them in any way and any email sent has to be done by someone else.

    This has to be outsourced.

    Two, one week or less turn-around. The 9 x 12 guys may take weeks to fill up their cards, too slow for me.

    Three, NOT touching any product, this has to be sent out either to USPS or to whomever is going to distribute.

    Now boxes in businesses where people fill out info for a drawing and small racks which hold offers gets close, as long as someone collects the boxes (and sets them up) and I just collect my play money...ok then.

    I think some of you guys are close, and a twist here and there might get me what I want, willing to spend a few MINUTES a day to manage and oil the cash machine...and if it can be scaled, even better.

    The problems so far: EDDM 9x12 TIME and effort to get advertisers and the cost of postage.

    The 6x9 with only 6 offers, EDDM eats into profits...how to eliminate postage? Tested door delivery, unreliable delivery people and perceived as door spam. A shotgun approach with too low of a profit (if I don't want to do anything).

    Boxes and fishbowls, hard to get a business to give up counter space, too much counting...too sloppy.

    Flyers in small footprint counter holders, locations hard to get and keep stocked, a big spender advertiser needed.

    There is a combination in there, or maybe something totally different. I want the science of direct response, not the guessing of IM...

    So, if someone sends out 100 USPS solicitations and I get a 3% response, with one covering costs and 2 are profit, then we can scale that up.

    Any and all ideas appreciated or even different directions considered.

    gjabiz

    PS The lazy old man thanks you.
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  • Profile picture of the author eccj
    You are going to have to build the machine before you can oil it. And since you are not willing to do anything you are basically screwed.
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    • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
      Yes, yes yes, I guess you missed the part where I said I want to build the machine.

      Let me make it simple for "today's" warrior to understand, OK?

      In the Bob Ross 9 x 12 group there are a couple of guys who are getting it done with email solicitations.

      Depending on the number of ads, a 9x12 could net about 3000 dollars.

      If I can hire someone for around 500 dollars per card to send out the emails, forward to the graphics person or to Jake ( a one stop solution), then my machine would net me 2500 per card, and two a month would give the 5k, for doing "nothing" once the machine is built. So far, even the best of these guys don't have a total hands off process in place, BUT, a couple are getting close.

      The 12 or 14 ads on a 9x12 take TIME to get, and mostly there is a lot of people contact, which I don't want.

      Now there have been guys who tested a 6x9 with fewer ads, but again, these require too much contact...but a couple of them got close, and quit.

      We have tested almost all of these in the last two years, and we may be getting close...some of it depends on how well we automate and how well we manage the outsourcing part...but, once the machine is built and the numbers come in, 1% is profitable but 3% on a cold solicitation can be done...which is my goal.

      If 3% holds up, then we hit gold. Scale it up and still be able to manage it without much (or in my case, any) involvement.

      Now if there is a better "machine" or model which can be scaled up, I'd be glad to listen, or the next wise guy can add his 2 cents of frivolity to the conversation.

      Some guys on this subforum have come close, and with all the 9x12 and other type groups, I'll find my solution.

      gjbiz

      PS If any of you know of a prototype company, for an electric kitchen appliance, I'm ears up on that too.
      Originally Posted by eccj View Post

      You are going to have to build the machine before you can oil it. And since you are not willing to do anything you are basically screwed.
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  • Profile picture of the author DRP
    Why don't you just follow the advice in your signature and quickly create information products which people eagerly buy??? Surely you know how to do that. ::not::
    Signature
    I'd rather tell you an ugly truth than a pretty lie.
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    • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
      Originally Posted by DRP View Post

      Why don't you just follow the advice in your signature and quickly create information products which people eagerly buy??? Surely you know how to do that. ::not::
      WOW, great advice DRP. What makes you think I don't?

      No ass made out of me on your ASSumption.

      I know there are still some people who want to learn and explore different ideas at the WF, but it is getting harder and harder to find them.

      The advice in my signature has been followed and I still get residual income from many of the IP I've created online since 1985.

      But writing and selling what I write is only one interest I have, perhaps a few of you have heard of multiple streams of income? NO? It's a good concept.

      I'm not asking HOW to make money, I'm interested in setting up a machine to do it for me, thanks for pointing out that sig, the method has worked for scores of people over the years, give it a try.

      gjabiz

      PS. Old timers can feel the new age warrior is probably going to sink the ship.
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      • Profile picture of the author DRP
        Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post

        WOW, great advice DRP. What makes you think I don't?
        Because it's clear to me that you don't! If you did, you wouldn't be asking for ways to make 200/day with zero effort and sounding like the many noobs in here.

        You'd be making that (at least) if not more from you oh so many IP's since 1985. Pffft! Give us a break!

        You can try to BS all you want. I see through all the fakers here. Old forum or new - it doesn't matter. It's the same old BS. The more they talk about their suck-cess, the more pathetic it is.

        The "ship" isn't sinking. It's just a new batch of jerks acting like they're hot shots, when they probably live in a trailer park and can't even build a professional looking website...never mind make any money like they pretend to do.
        Signature
        I'd rather tell you an ugly truth than a pretty lie.
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        • Profile picture of the author Lance K
          Originally Posted by DRP View Post

          Because it's clear to me that you don't! If you did, you wouldn't be asking for ways to make 200/day with zero effort and sounding like the many noobs in here.

          You'd be making that (at least) if not more from you oh so many IP's since 1985. Pffft! Give us a break!

          You can try to BS all you want. I see through all the fakers here. Old forum or new - it doesn't matter. It's the same old BS. The more they talk about their suck-cess, the more pathetic it is.

          The "ship" isn't sinking. It's just a new batch of jerks acting like they're hot shots, when they probably live in a trailer park and can't even build a professional looking website...never mind make any money like they pretend to do.

          DRP, your faker radar is in serious need of recalibration.
          Signature
          "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
          ~ Zig Ziglar
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  • Profile picture of the author ivanela33
    To the OP: Why do you post such questions in this forum when all the people who have given a shot to the 9 x 12 and all it variations are over at that private forum? You might get better responses than in here.
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    • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
      #1 NO, NOT ALL the people are there. Many who do EDDM have never heard of Bob Ross or Warrior Forum...there are thousands of businesses using EDDM.

      #2. I KNOW what is over there, what I don't know is which of 150,000 new warrios added in the last year might have some input, advice or just an idea.

      #3 There are still several Warriors in this sub forum, salesman and in the trenches types who are on top of what businesses want in the way of advertising, and what marketing vehicles they use, I respect their expertise.

      #4 I don't owe anyone an explanation for where I post.

      But this forum was the place before Bob Ross and even now he is mostly absent...to discuss offline projects, and I feel other people might be interested to see where this goes and what ideas come up, if it bothers anyone, thy are free to not waste their time reading it.

      OK?

      gjabiz

      Originally Posted by ivanela33 View Post

      To the OP: Why do you post such questions in this forum when all the people who have given a shot to the 9 x 12 and all it variations are over at that private forum? You might get better responses than in here.
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      • Profile picture of the author mojo1
        I'm really enjoying the OP's post and am also seeking to scale up the co-op advertising model.

        I've had some success using only cold emailing to prospect local businesses to participate using a twist on the biz model Don Alm suggested for fridge magnets.

        I've completed one magnet in my area and my biz partner has completed 3 or 4 in their city.

        I purchased software to mass email at the touch of a button. It works really well too.

        I handle researching the business emails and emailing them out using my software and
        my partner does the prospect acquisition & management and outsourcing design for the magnets.

        There are a few components that need ironing out that once are better oiled, could really amp up our efforts to launch nationwide.
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        • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
          Good. You have software and you put in the names and emails of businesses.

          Has the four completed projects come from this or was that the old cold calling way?

          Our problem was to get the emails open and then to get an action. So we're split testing subject headers.

          We know belly to belly works, we're doing that. We are looking for remote ways to get the same result. A direct mail piece is being tested, email lists with both a blast and a personalized message...

          I'd love to see your email work...and get to the "machine" state. Magnets have worked for decades and if you get to the point of being able to get interest, a response, and CLOSE all via email, you may have struck oil...gushers of moolah await.

          We can use remote means to get the host, then add the guests and have that as an automated process. It becomes a question of effectiveness, and that is what we're testing.

          I think you are heading in the right direction, in my model (machine) the software management would be outsourced.

          gjabiz
          Originally Posted by mojo1 View Post

          I'm really enjoying the OP's post and am also seeking to scale up the co-op advertising model.

          I've had some success using only cold emailing to prospect local businesses to participate using a twist on the biz model Don Alm suggested for fridge magnets.

          I've completed one magnet in my area and my biz partner has completed 3 or 4 in their city.

          I purchased software to mass email at the touch of a button. It works really well too.

          I handle researching the business emails and emailing them out using my software and
          my partner does the prospect acquisition & management and design outsourcing for the magnets.

          There are a few components that need ironing out that once are better oiled, could really amp up our efforts to launch nationwide.
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          • Profile picture of the author mojo1
            The card was closed via email communications (mostly).

            There were a few businesses who required a call even though everything was spelled out clearly.

            Some folks just like to make sure you're real and not a scam which I don't find offensive.

            However, interestingly enough, when I checked my website stats, very very few people ever even
            visited my website included in my signature to verify I was who I represented myself to be according to my website stats which to me is really weird.

            So in this sense it seems most people are okay with paying for advertising without face to face
            meetings. Hope this helps.
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            • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
              We've been testing for two years. There was a Warrior who tried something different too, and we took that and made adjustments (as you did with the magnet).

              One thing was to be able to scale it across US so we wouldn't have to see anyone.

              Was the host helpful in getting the advertisers (ala Don A.)? Can I safely assume you have only ONE of a kind of business listed?

              You and a couple of guys with Jake are the closest thing to what I'm looking for, see, you alone made this post worthwhile. Thanks

              gjabiz

              Originally Posted by mojo1 View Post

              The card was closed via email communications (mostly).

              There were a few businesses who required a call even though everything was spelled out clearly.

              Some folks just like to make sure you're real and not a scam which I don't find offensive.

              However, interestingly enough, when I checked my website stats, very very few people ever even
              visited my website included in my signature to verify I was who I represented myself to be according to my website stats which to me is really weird.

              So in this sense it seems most people are okay with paying for advertising without face to face
              meetings. Hope this helps.
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  • Profile picture of the author BUFFALOBT
    To jgabiz and mojo1...

    Fellas- it sounds like we are all after the same thing...some variation on the 9x12 that can be outsourced, scaled, and automated.

    I am 100% ready to dive in and try to build the best mousetrap with you guys.

    Let's keep in touch and maybe we can finally crack the code.
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    • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
      Like mojo1, we wanted the Don A. twist to get the "host" to do the work of referring potential advertisers. DA has a long history of showing a mock up and then asking for on the spot referrals...how do we do this by remote means?


      The 6x9 with only six advertisers doesn't have much profit at a level where the advertiser gives a no-brainer yes, at 9x12 prices, the distribution is too small for an EDDM... what now?

      Who can pay a higher price or how can we reduce costs?

      I give credit to Don, Jake and you too buffalo...to put us on a path where we have lower costs per card with faster turn around times, could we reduce the 9x12 month or six weeks down to a week?

      Or how about a day?

      So that is the idea meat we put into the idea grinder which has led us to test several varieties, now just looking for (via this "BS" post) some further thought on this...which I've rec'd and may help us crack this code.

      Thanks to both of you.

      gjabiz

      PS. Not a warrior Forum PM fan, try email or other forum if you want to confer.

      Originally Posted by BUFFALOBT View Post

      To jgabiz and mojo1...

      Fellas- it sounds like we are all after the same thing...some variation on the 9x12 that can be outsourced, scaled, and automated.

      I am 100% ready to dive in and try to build the best mousetrap with you guys.

      Let's keep in touch and maybe we can finally crack the code.
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      • Profile picture of the author Oziboomer
        Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post

        Like mojo1, we wanted the Don A. twist to get the "host" to do the work of referring potential advertisers. DA has a long history of showing a mock up and then asking for on the spot referrals...how do we do this by remote means?
        Just a thought...

        talking with local Lions club in regards to getting sponsors for an event and the thought crossed my mind if you could pay a commission to the Lions or Rotary and promote them on the card also you could get a bunch of community orientated individuals leveraging their business contacts to support the community by contributing via their support.

        That is scaleable and win--win for both the organisations that may decide to become involved and the businesses who want to support such organisations but can't see any financial return in doing so.

        It would provide a point of contact for the associations to talk to business owners and gain support for something that would help everyone involved.
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      • Profile picture of the author mojo1
        Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post

        Like mojo1, we wanted the Don A. twist to get the "host" to do the work of referring potential advertisers. DA has a long history of showing a mock up and then asking for on the spot referrals...how do we do this by remote means?


        The 6x9 with only six advertisers doesn't have much profit at a level where the advertiser gives a no-brainer yes, at 9x12 prices, the distribution is too small for an EDDM... what now?

        Who can pay a higher price or how can we reduce costs?

        I give credit to Don, Jake and you too buffalo...to put us on a path where we have lower costs per card with faster turn around times, could we reduce the 9x12 month or six weeks down to a week?

        Or how about a day?

        So that is the idea meat we put into the idea grinder which has led us to test several varieties, now just looking for (via this "BS" post) some further thought on this...which I've rec'd and may help us crack this code.

        Thanks to both of you.

        gjabiz

        PS. Not a warrior Forum PM fan, try email or other forum if you want to confer.
        Thanks and glad to be able to contribute a bit towards this discussion.

        Yes, the same bubble you're facing where the client does the work to refer others really is THE
        thing that makes this entire sha bang scaleable in my mind. Regardless of the medium whether it's
        a postcard, magnet, etc. this is the spoke in the wheel.

        Unlike you Buffalobt, I did not get any takers from the advertiser/sponsor to refer other businesses although my biz buddy did get one or two max that referred other businesses for a discount.

        I really think it gets down to the way it's framed when presented to the business advertiser.

        The term business referral might be a bit too strong. Even though we all know what it is, there maybe
        some trepidation when dealing with this proposition via email and them having to give out their
        business colleague info. It gets down to the trust factor.

        I came up with some language I've pondered a few different ways to present this part of the system.
        Securing business referrals is such an integral part and again is what makes this a system, it's critical
        to present it whereby there is absolutely NO hesitation on the part of the advertiser to provide those
        business colleagues.
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        • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
          Originally Posted by mojo1 View Post



          I really think it gets down to the way it's framed when presented to the business advertiser.

          Securing business referrals is such an integral part and again is what makes this a system, it's critical
          to present it whereby there is absolutely NO hesitation
          on the part of the advertiser to provide those
          business colleagues.
          Yes, yes and yes it is.

          Thanks

          gjabiz
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        • Profile picture of the author mojo1
          And one more thing, I'm not sure if either of you, BuffaloBT or Gjabiz are in Bob Ross' FB group
          but there is a document in the files section that is pure gold as it relates
          to the code we're trying to crack,lol.

          I've had it for a few months and just read the entire document last night.
          It has the one, two punch we're looking for overall but the one major drawback
          is that it's setup to do via mail to two parties and not email.

          I'm going to test this method across a few cities via email instead of mail and give my best
          effort to make it work.
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          • Profile picture of the author savidge4
            Since I am not much for leaving out steps in concepts I share here.. I have a tidbit for the bunch of you.

            Target Satellite retailers IE Dishnetwork, Directv, Hughesnet, and Exede retailors. With every sale these guys make they get "Co-Op" cash. these funds can be used to pay for advertising available within the co-op store - IE fliers and door hangers etc It can also be used for the payment of mailers, tv ads, radio ads, booth fees for trade shows etc.

            These folks are not spending "Their own money" they are spending corporate money. Most companies let this account stack up and spend very little of what they have available. Its basically FREE money.

            Getting the initial ad ok'd is a bit of a pain, but once you do one or 2 of these you can send the mach-up up to corporate showing they have ok'd this ad or that ( when it was used last month for so and so company ) they usually will ok the ad asap.

            The interesting thing when dealing with Satellite companies, is they are referral driven. so asking them for fellow business owners that may be of interest will more than likely produce some results.
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            • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
              Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

              Since I am not much for leaving out steps in concepts I share here.. I have a tidbit for the bunch of you.

              Target Satellite retailers IE Dishnetwork, Directv, Hughesnet, and Exede retailors. With every sale these guys make they get "Co-Op" cash. these funds can be used to pay for advertising available within the co-op store - IE fliers and door hangers etc It can also be used for the payment of mailers, tv ads, radio ads, booth fees for trade shows etc.

              These folks are not spending "Their own money" they are spending corporate money. Most companies let this account stack up and spend very little of what they have available. Its basically FREE money.

              Getting the initial ad ok'd is a bit of a pain, but once you do one or 2 of these you can send the mach-up up to corporate showing they have ok'd this ad or that ( when it was used last month for so and so company ) they usually will ok the ad asap.

              The interesting thing when dealing with Satellite companies, is they are referral driven. so asking them for fellow business owners that may be of interest will more than likely produce some results.
              Savidge,

              Thank you for your input.

              Very intelligent approach, and solid information on
              using co-op money.

              There are many tidbits and tricks that go into an
              ad program, aren't there? You learn them as you go.

              If you do it right, you even have advertisers contacting you, willing to pay
              a deposit and wait for a space to open. (thanks D. Alm for that one!)
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  • Profile picture of the author BUFFALOBT
    Just PM'd you guys and we can bang this out on email.

    There are pros and cons to both the 12 plus ad 9x12 and my modified 6 ad 6x9. You make more $$$ on the 9x12, but have to get a lot more ads to get to each finish line.

    You make less on a 6x9, but get to the finish line much quicker.

    To repeat a 9x12 monthly without finding 12 new advertisers each time is harder than doing the same with the 6x9. It really depends on how you want to build the business.

    I was able to do both "virtually"...meaning all email and over the phone when needed to answer questions, etc.

    I collected all $$$ AFTER each ad was proofed...first using PayPal, and later using Chase QuickPay- which is FREE by the way.

    The real missing ingredient to making this a bullet proof business model is outsourcing the ad sales...I have an idea for that that I'll share via email.
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  • Profile picture of the author BUFFALOBT
    Here is one idea I have on how to potentially speed up ad sales, and scale at the same time:

    I would stumble on interested business owners during my emailing who liked the format, but wanted a different market. So...they became my "anchor" advertiser for the new edition to their market.

    I told them the sooner "we" find the other 5 advertisers, the sooner we can get your message out to your target market. So I got a few referrals that way, and offered a discount for each.

    The downside is that I quit before I was able to fill 3 editions at once, and left a few committed advertisers hanging. I didn't have to pay back any $$$, since I collect 100% after their ad is proofed- but it's still not a good way to do business.
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  • Profile picture of the author BUFFALOBT
    Here is another idea to potentially outsource/speed up/scale up sales and editions:

    -Pick a target market somewhere, anywhere
    -Advertise a "business referral program" on CL...asking for people to refer their favorite businesses to you, and in exchange for allowing the use of their name- pay them a $50 referral fee if they advertise
    -Then- pay them $25 each time that referred business re-ups in future editions

    This builds a bit of loyalty, and motivates the referrer to keep referring.

    This can be done anywhere of course.
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    • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
      To me, this sounds sloppy, too much people contact, too much work. I have to say Buffalobt, you are an idea generating machine. Which is good...sometimes.

      Consider this example:

      The local public golf course. Around here they are busy places. How about a 6x9 promotion for them...give them 1000-2500 FREE cards, and their offer is on the front...you get the six ad spaces on the back.

      While talking to the pro or course manager, maybe on the phone, but maybe remotely by sending him a direct mail piece (outsourced)...

      He gets 1000 FREE, and you ask him for the referrals, like local steakhouse or sports bar.

      Here's a question scenario, What if your clubhouse were struck by lightening and flooded...who would you call?

      Who is your go to electrician? The go to carpet cleaner? The window guy? Insurance agent? WHO are you personally going to use to get things done?

      Give them the first chance to get on your card or to turn it down and we'll find someone else.

      ALL of this via email after receiving the mail piece with sample card.

      What about 250 dollars for 2500 cards, the golf course gets 1000 and the six advertisers each get 250 to give to their customers, past and present and they can mail out if they want.

      The course gives them out to all players, they will burn through 1000 pretty quickly. Of course the offers have to be real deals.

      ALL of this done by remote means. 6 x 250 = 1500 and at a cost of around 300 to 500, there is 1000 profit for you.

      If you had to drop to 150 x 6 = 900 - 300 leaves 600 for sending out a card.

      This machine has a lot less moving parts than the craigslist idea, wouldn't you agree?

      By having a host, you eliminate EDDM costs, and increase distribution to a more targeted audience. If the course (or bowling alley) doesn't have much of a pro shop, the advertisers could be sport related, like Play It Again Sports for the course (used clubs and equipment). Men's shop for golf apparel. Shoe store for golf spikes, etc., etc.

      Eliminating the shotgun approach of EDDM, using targeted campaigns, with host referrals, all via remote means is what appeals to me.

      gjabiz





      Originally Posted by BUFFALOBT View Post

      Here is another idea to potentially outsource/speed up/scale up sales and editions:

      -Pick a target market somewhere, anywhere
      -Advertise a "business referral program" on CL...asking for people to refer their favorite businesses to you, and in exchange for allowing the use of their name- pay them a $50 referral fee if they advertise
      -Then- pay them $25 each time that referred business re-ups in future editions

      This builds a bit of loyalty, and motivates the referrer to keep referring.

      This can be done anywhere of course.
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      • Profile picture of the author savidge4
        This whole skip jumping the "shipping" to streamline the process and save a penny seems a bit out of wack. it sounds like way more work than just sending the suckers.

        You are talking what? 2500 cards still needing to communicate to the same 7 clients and the distribution is way off mark. electrician... who usually calls one? better yet in your average American house hold who is usually home during the day to be there when the electrician would show up?

        but you are thinking Golf Courses as the hub of the operation. - I get the idea, but MEN are the primary market on the golf course. how many of those cards are going to make it past the first garbage can on the first tee? The effectiveness of deliver is weak at best, and the outcome for the advertisers themselves will be horrid. Horrid results, beget horrid retention. Horrid retention begets more work to find the next 6 clients.

        Laziness and being cheap almost always produces far more work in the long run.

        The cost estimations for 2500 cards at $300 to $500 is way off... I can get 10,000 printed for $600.

        So lets talk 10,000 for a moment... $600 for the cards and $1600 to mail them ( EDDM ) so your in to the project for $2200 signed sealed and delivered. and remember that's TEN THOUSAND cards.

        7 spots on the card ( 1 on the front 6 on the back ) you are at a break even of $315 PER client to break even. IF you were to go in at .35 a card to the clients ( as a whole ) .05 per card (individually ) your back end for the SAME amount of work is pulling $3500 or $1300 profit.

        I would suggest something in lines with .07 to .10 a card increasing your profits even more. you are now inline with $4900 to $7000 back ends with the same $2200 up front cost.

        Marketing 101 here Volume drives the cost... you can sell a client 2500 cards that are distributed at a golf course at a total cost to the client of $416. OR you can less than double the price to $700 to the client get the card out to TEN THOUSAND potential customers at .07 a card and pull $2700 out on the back end.

        You guyz are looking to do this like full time. get a freakin contract signed 6 months for X dollars. Lock spots in. You want to scale? you have to know that month in and month out you are not having to get back into a market and continually sell spots. THATS a machine.

        That whole we can save a penny and talk to this guy to get this and that, and only sell 6 spots because we are going to give this away to make peanuts in the end.. and then we will be back next month because your marketing is not effective in any way shape or form so you will need to fill 5 of the 6 spots. That's just work man.

        The whole I don't want to do anything concept is all fine and dandy AFTER you have built the machine. to think that from the start it will work like that.. I have a feeling you know better... but from what I have seen here gjabiz will be doing little to no work because BUFFALO will be doing it... all I can say is know and understand leverage.... who has how much, what's brought to the table, and is it worth sharing your food with those that bring little.
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        • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
          Not dumb enough to share details, simply used to show alternatives. But, No thanks for your suggestions, they are based on the assumptions you know what we do, we're going to stay with what we have.

          BuffaloBT, do you think it is wack?

          gjabiz


          Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

          This whole skip jumping the "shipping" to streamline the process and save a penny seems a bit out of wack. it sounds like way more work than just sending the suckers.

          You are talking what? 2500 cards still needing to communicate to the same 7 clients and the distribution is way off mark. electrician... who usually calls one? better yet in your average American house hold who is usually home during the day to be there when the electrician would show up?

          but you are thinking Golf Courses as the hub of the operation. - I get the idea, but MEN are the primary market on the golf course. how many of those cards are going to make it past the first garbage can on the first tee? The effectiveness of deliver is weak at best, and the outcome for the advertisers themselves will be horrid. Horrid results, beget horrid retention. Horrid retention begets more work to find the next 6 clients.

          Laziness and being cheap almost always produces far more work in the long run.

          The cost estimations for 2500 cards at $300 to $500 is way off... I can get 10,000 printed for $600.

          So lets talk 10,000 for a moment... $600 for the cards and $1600 to mail them ( EDDM ) so your in to the project for $2200 signed sealed and delivered. and remember that's TEN THOUSAND cards.

          7 spots on the card ( 1 on the front 6 on the back ) you are at a break even of $315 PER client to break even. IF you were to go in at .35 a card to the clients ( as a whole ) .05 per card (individually ) your back end for the SAME amount of work is pulling $3500 or $1300 profit.

          I would suggest something in lines with .07 to .10 a card increasing your profits even more. you are now inline with $4900 to $7000 back ends with the same $2200 up front cost.

          Marketing 101 here Volume drives the cost... you can sell a client 2500 cards that are distributed at a golf course at a total cost to the client of $416. OR you can less than double the price to $700 to the client get the card out to TEN THOUSAND potential customers at .07 a card and pull $2700 out on the back end.

          You guyz are looking to do this like full time. get a freakin contract signed 6 months for X dollars. Lock spots in. You want to scale? you have to know that month in and month out you are not having to get back into a market and continually sell spots. THATS a machine.

          That whole we can save a penny and talk to this guy to get this and that, and only sell 6 spots because we are going to give this away to make peanuts in the end.. and then we will be back next month because your marketing is not effective in any way shape or form so you will need to fill 5 of the 6 spots. That's just work man.

          The whole I don't want to do anything concept is all fine and dandy AFTER you have built the machine. to think that from the start it will work like that.. I have a feeling you know better... but from what I have seen here gjabiz will be doing little to no work because BUFFALO will be doing it... all I can say is know and understand leverage.... who has how much, what's brought to the table, and is it worth sharing your food with those that bring little.
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          • Profile picture of the author savidge4
            Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post

            Not dumb enough to share details, simply used to show alternatives. But, No thanks for your suggestions, they are based on the assumptions you know what we do, we're going to stay with what we have.

            BuffaloBT, do you think it is wack?

            gjabiz
            Here is the deal.. you read this thread.. its whack.. read it for what it is.. how can I be a lazy F and make money? and then the "Alternatives" thrown around are pieces, but not an entirely working model. I gave you the frame work for a WORKING model.. if you like it or not.. I use it.. it works. I publish 3 sets of cards a month ( ALL 21 spots are 6 month contracted ) how many you doing right now? I could very easily scale the crud out of what I do.

            Buffalo has what I would consider a working model. sounds like he has some motivation issues to make it fly on thier own. That's NOT an assumption.. he has stated as such himself. it just needs a boost

            Boost the number of deliver.. increasing the bottom line and sign em in on 6 month deals. Put the front side image as a rotator between the 6 on the back ( increases value ) you want to come in on a month to month its .10 a card ( no front side image... you want the front side for 1 month out of 6 on a 6 month contract .07.

            Your biggest dumb tax right now is the art work ( and paypal.. that's just silly ). goto your local college and get a graphics arts student to layout each card for $100 a month per card ( or less ). May I suggest looking into printed checks as the primary form of payment delivery?

            Buffalo has all the pieces.. well almost. test the crud out of the e-mail delivery. once you have copy and a headline that converts... your printing money at that point. THAT again is a SYSTEM.

            The whole willy nilly hand delivery crap is PROVEN time and again to fail miserably.
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            • Profile picture of the author mojo1
              Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

              Boost the number of deliver.. increasing the bottom line and sign em in on 6 month deals. Put the front side image as a rotator between the 6 on the back ( increases value ) you want to come in on a month to month its .10 a card ( no front side image... you want the front side for 1 month out of 6 on a 6 month contract .07.

              test the crud out of the e-mail delivery. once you have copy and a headline that converts... your printing money at that point. THAT again is a SYSTEM.

              The whole willy nilly hand delivery crap is PROVEN time and again to fail miserably.
              Yes, yes, sir you've nailed the last line.

              Hand delivering postcards to someone's spot will work only if the
              participating Advertiser who is supposed to share in distributing these co-op postcards
              are actually getting an incentive other than handing out a postcard with their offer on it.

              Ask The Big Bee, he had a pretty smooth system in place that Gjabiz might like a lot
              that was along those lines.
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            • Profile picture of the author SirThomas
              Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

              Here is the deal.. you read this thread.. its whack.. read it for what it is.. how can I be a lazy F and make money? and then the "Alternatives" thrown around are pieces, but not an entirely working model. I gave you the frame work for a WORKING model.. if you like it or not.. I use it.. it works. I publish 3 sets of cards a month ( ALL 21 spots are 6 month contracted ) how many you doing right now? I could very easily scale the crud out of what I do.


              Boost the number of deliver.. increasing the bottom line and sign em in on 6 month deals. Put the front side image as a rotator between the 6 on the back ( increases value ) you want to come in on a month to month its .10 a card ( no front side image... you want the front side for 1 month out of 6 on a 6 month contract .07.
              Very nice system! Thank you for sharing.

              Do you collect their funds for 6 months in advance or in individual payments? I'd think the first payment could be the biggest, but I'd like to learn how you go about it.

              I understand you rotate seven advertisers with one on the front and six other on the back. Perhaps I'm missing something, but wouldn't that be a 7-month rather than a 6-month rotation?

              Have you ever tried to do the sames with 9x12 or 8.5x11? I know it's pricier, but it may look even more impressive. Just wondering... :-)
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              • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                Originally Posted by SirThomas View Post

                Very nice system! Thank you for sharing.

                Do you collect their funds for 6 months in advance or in individual payments? I'd think the first payment could be the biggest, but I'd like to learn how you go about it.

                I understand you rotate seven advertisers with one on the front and six other on the back. Perhaps I'm missing something, but wouldn't that be a 7-month rather than a 6-month rotation?

                Have you ever tried to do the sames with 9x12 or 8.5x11? I know it's pricier, but it may look even more impressive. Just wondering... :-)
                In terms of collection.. how ever I can get it. I shoot for the 1 time payment option, but will take the monthly. In the monthly plan I do double charge the first month, so I am a month ahead. If there ends up being a hic-up I have time to make things work.

                I have used both the 7 pack and 6 pack method. The 7 pack method there would not be a rotation. I am currently using that model because all of the fliers I have go in to markets that my own personal Satellite business advertises in. so spot #7 or the face of the image is "Mine" LOL.

                The 6 pack method with the rotator is a nice added value concept my design person came up with. we have a plumber that would see more value in being on the face of the card in January ( frozen pipes ) a Florist that would prefer February etc.. it just kinda worked. with the clients we had at the time.

                It ended up being a nice sales point to push the 6 month contract and loose the month to month none sense to stabilize the effort that goes into these things.

                Why the 6x9? if you run the numbers.. you are better off with two 6x9's in a market than you are one 9x12. There is simply more profit in it. I have a total of 4 business' on the 3 cards I run ( my business included ) that run on all 3 cards.

                One of the other things we do is try to keep track as to specifically what eddm zones are hitting. Often times my clients will hit a specific zone with a single advertiser piece to reinforce the message in those areas. - it is actually a pretty effective strategy. And because I stagger the delivery date of the 3 batches I can easily create short run cards for this purpose to hit a small 300 address zone that is of interest.
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                • Profile picture of the author SirThomas
                  Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                  Why the 6x9? if you run the numbers.. you are better off with two 6x9's in a market than you are one 9x12. There is simply more profit in it. I have a total of 4 business' on the 3 cards I run ( my business included ) that run on all 3 cards.
                  So currently, you're running 4 ads ( 4 businesses) with one on front page and three on the back? Three cards a month?
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                  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                    Originally Posted by SirThomas View Post

                    So currently, you're running 4 ads ( 4 businesses) with one on front page and three on the back? Three cards a month?

                    6 ads.. but I have 3 clients that run on all 3 cards.. ( 21 total spots 13 total clients filling them )
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                    • Profile picture of the author SirThomas
                      Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                      6 ads.. but I have 3 clients that run on all 3 cards.. ( 21 total spots 13 total clients filling them )
                      Got it! Thank you for the clarification. Appreciated.
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                    • Profile picture of the author eccj
                      Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                      6 ads.. but I have 3 clients that run on all 3 cards.. ( 21 total spots 13 total clients filling them )
                      First: good info.

                      Second: How many things do you do? My mother in law still can't get her head around what I do. If you have a mother in law I'm sure she is confused as it gets bless her heart.

                      Third: Have you seen an insurance agency get good results with the program?
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                      • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                        Originally Posted by eccj View Post

                        First: good info.

                        Second: How many things do you do? My mother in law still can't get her head around what I do. If you have a mother in law I'm sure she is confused as it gets bless her heart.
                        There is a simple answer to this.. I do one thing.. I am a local based advertising agency. I build websites. I do CRO for websites. I do SEO. I do mailings. I do Vinyl lettering / store fronts / signs. I Do Large format printing IE large signage, posters, giclee quality fine art, etc.

                        Every aspect has a story unto itself how I got into each, but many short stories shorter it became a matter of my bottom line. It was cheaper and easier and far more efficient to bring all of these services in house. Each and every one has been developed "enough" that they are business each in their own right. I could very easily live off of any one of them, and grow them far greater than they are ( with the exception of Web design and CRO - those were / are my primary avenues of business )

                        As it pertains to this thread... IF I were to get into going at a EDDM strategy on a larger scale other than local. I would have a Heidelberg 2 color printing press in the shop and produce the product from start to finish. Maximizing profit by reducing the expense of production is always the best route. and then by virtue of having the ability in shop, well you are going to go out and sell more of it. ( or at least I do )

                        I also have a Satellite Custom Installation business that currently has 5 installers. I deal with 3 out of the 4 major Satellite providers.

                        I have a small offshoot what I call professional services business that sells paper products and some other items such as roll-up sunglasses to Dentist and Optometrists.

                        All 12 of my current "Employees" and myself do affiliate marketing. It was a program I developed last year as a bonus of sorts to equalize the obvious split I have in the office environment. Every one sits down once a week and it brings the entire team together.. its kinda cool really.

                        The other half of what I do is run by my what we will call wife. ( we are not married but have been together for 10 yrs now ) She operates a pretty successful e-bay business as well as a small interior design firm. She has 2 employees. One just so happens to be the mother in law! LOL so she has a decent idea what goes on but plays dumb a lot.

                        We all go out for dinner every other Friday. We do potlucks at the shop 2 days a week - sometimes more depending on birthdays. When a really big project comes in and we need help, all the wives / husbands come in to give a helping hand. Its just a cool place to work, and a even cooler place to say is yours.

                        Success is not the amount of money in your bank account... I think it is more in who you are surrounded by, and their success.

                        Originally Posted by eccj View Post

                        Third: Have you seen an insurance agency get good results with the program?
                        I personally have done some work with an Allstate agent and it was decent results. I know that State Farm in particular focuses more on the mailing type advertising than most of the others.
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                        • Interesting conversations / concepts!

                          All that I can say is that you should have purchased Vegas Vince's Barter Arbitrage Course!

                          Why? In MY opinion, it would have solved a lot of the problems that you are discussing/dealing with here!

                          Peace Out!

                          JMB
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                          • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
                            Originally Posted by JMB Marketing Group View Post

                            Interesting conversations / concepts!

                            All that I can say is that you should have purchased Vegas Vince's Barter Arbitrage Course!

                            Why? In MY opinion, it would have solved a lot of the problems that you are discussing/dealing with here!

                            Peace Out!

                            JMB
                            Perhaps you're right. Could you provide some details regarding your conclusions?
                            How exactly would the program you mentioned, help with remote ad sales?
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                            • Originally Posted by Ron Lafuddy View Post

                              Perhaps you're right. Could you provide some details regarding your conclusions?
                              How exactly would the program you mentioned, help with remote ad sales?
                              Absolutely, I can.

                              Don't get me wrong! Direct Marketing absolutely works.

                              However, what I was trying to convey was, instead of a "shot gun approach", in Vinnie's course, it's a "hit and acquire approach"!

                              Meaning, if you know how to market to your target audience, you will hit it out of the park with Vinnie's suggestions!

                              JMB
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                        • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                          Banned
                          Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                          I Do Large format printing IE large signage, posters, giclee quality fine art, etc.
                          Greetings. I was wondering if you might share what type of printer that you use for these services and if you are directly competing with Staples in your community? Some folks are not aware that Staples does this type of printing.

                          I'm contemplating purchasing a very large-format printer, but am concerned with not printing enough in the beginning to keep the ink nozzles clean, thereby wasting gobs of expensive ink to constantly flush them.

                          I have always used Epson printers in the past, but nothing that printed larger than 11x14", if memory serves. It has been many years.

                          Cheers. - Frank
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                          • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
                            Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                            Greetings. I was wondering if you might share what type of printer that you use for these services and if you are directly competing with Staples in your community? Some folks are not aware that Staples does this type of printing.

                            I'm contemplating purchasing a very large-format printer, but am concerned with not printing enough in the beginning to keep the ink nozzles clean, thereby wasting gobs of expensive ink to constantly flush them.

                            I have always used Epson printers in the past, but nothing that printed larger than 11x14", if memory serves. It has been many years.

                            Cheers. - Frank
                            His work horses are HP 5500's

                            I have a few of those myself - one leaks like a sieve the others do not.

                            also in my area .... the office maxes were bough out by office depo
                            and they are replacing the printers with new ones.

                            The "old" ones are up for sale - and they are basically babies - in some cases
                            only a few thousand feet printed off of them....
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                            • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                              Banned
                              Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

                              His work horses are HP 5500's
                              Thanks. I'll check those out. After reading reviews all day on the Epson Stylus Pro 9900, I may have changed my mind on even getting a printer. I almost forgot how much of a PITA that printing can be - especially roll printing. Ugh.
                              I have a few of those myself - one leaks like a sieve the others do not.
                              Now ther's a lovely image. A leaky printer. lol
                              also in my area .... the office maxes were bough out by office depo
                              and they are replacing the printers with new ones.

                              The "old" ones are up for sale - and they are basically babies - in some cases
                              only a few thousand feet printed off of them....
                              I'm not big on buying anything used. I can't see how any printer of that type, if the company is discontinuing using them would have any kind of warranty. That could be a major disaster. I will read the reviews on the HP's, though.

                              I appreciate your input.

                              Cheers. - Frank
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                              • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                                My HP rep keeps throwing the new Latex HP line in my face... I do have to admit it is really nice... but the fact is with the right inks and the right paper... Color from the 5000 / 5500 not only looks good, but it is guaranteed for 100+ years. I don't think they make them like that any more.

                                I can understand being sketch about buying used... but I will tell from the years now that I have been using them. HP is awesome with support, they have continued to have parts in stock, and have no plans of discontinuing that aspect. They really are pretty easy to work on.

                                The absolute 1 thing you want to keep in mind is buy way bigger than you think. ( go 60 or go home ) and when buying an older model BE SURE it is UV ink. You can convert back and forth, but it is about a $1000 process, and there is no sense in that now is there?

                                I would suggest find the business before you get the machine. I have deals with the local beer distributer.. When ever they are packed with orders we have made a deal and they send work my way. This weekend is "Biker Week" here so for the last 2 weeks we have been pumping out banners like there is no tomorrow.

                                In Myrtle Beach SC I had a deal with the local Convention Center. When they had conventions and the like and presenters at shows and stuff asked where to get things printed ( they would leave a piece at home and need something ) I got all of that work.

                                Store window Signage... POS material ( usually paper print spray glued to corflute material ) Outdoor Banners. There is literally all kinds of stuff. I do fabric flag things for a few local cities in the area for xmas and the fourth etc.

                                Do some free work for the local schools - in return for a tag on the product. In the area I live in now this helped me get in with the crowd that used Staples. Wen yo really start to understand the business a bit better you realize Staples is really not your competition but online ordering is the market you want to try and redirect to a local source.... as long as your pricing is right.. its not that hard.

                                You REALLY REALLY want to look at using a RIP. I personally use PosterJet. this does many things... but the most important is it starts kicking out a print in 7 seconds ( no lie count it all the time and every time 1 one thousand 2 one thousand ... 7 one thousand PRINT - it never gets old ) The other aspects are managing prints in a single run and it will determine based on the paper size how to lay out images to get the most out of the paper.

                                The price you may pay for something like PosterJet... I cant even begin to tell you how much time and money it will save you in the long run.

                                In terms of dryng out... The machines I have "sitting around" I run about one every 2 to 3 months and kick out a 2'x3' print to keep things going in them. I do have them sitting in a climate controlled room so that does help a bit.. but they are pretty robust in terms of sitting before they dry out and cause headache and dollar spend.

                                If you can get a HP 5000 or 5500 in the $1000 mark.. at $10 a sqft, it really doesn't take to many prints to get your investment back.

                                Any other questions ask away!
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          • Profile picture of the author BUFFALOBT
            Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post

            Not dumb enough to share details, simply used to show alternatives. But, No thanks for your suggestions, they are based on the assumptions you know what we do, we're going to stay with what we have.

            BuffaloBT, do you think it is wack?

            gjabiz
            Still giggling to be honest with you...
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        • Profile picture of the author zoro
          Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

          This whole skip jumping the "shipping" to streamline the process and save a penny seems a bit out of wack. it sounds like way more work than just sending the suckers.

          You are talking what? 2500 cards still needing to communicate to the same 7 clients and the distribution is way off mark. electrician... who usually calls one? better yet in your average American house hold who is usually home during the day to be there when the electrician would show up?

          but you are thinking Golf Courses as the hub of the operation. - I get the idea, but MEN are the primary market on the golf course. how many of those cards are going to make it past the first garbage can on the first tee? The effectiveness of deliver is weak at best, and the outcome for the advertisers themselves will be horrid. Horrid results, beget horrid retention. Horrid retention begets more work to find the next 6 clients.

          Laziness and being cheap almost always produces far more work in the long run.

          The cost estimations for 2500 cards at $300 to $500 is way off... I can get 10,000 printed for $600.

          So lets talk 10,000 for a moment... $600 for the cards and $1600 to mail them ( EDDM ) so your in to the project for $2200 signed sealed and delivered. and remember that's TEN THOUSAND cards.

          7 spots on the card ( 1 on the front 6 on the back ) you are at a break even of $315 PER client to break even. IF you were to go in at .35 a card to the clients ( as a whole ) .05 per card (individually ) your back end for the SAME amount of work is pulling $3500 or $1300 profit.

          I would suggest something in lines with .07 to .10 a card increasing your profits even more. you are now inline with $4900 to $7000 back ends with the same $2200 up front cost.

          Marketing 101 here Volume drives the cost... you can sell a client 2500 cards that are distributed at a golf course at a total cost to the client of $416. OR you can less than double the price to $700 to the client get the card out to TEN THOUSAND potential customers at .07 a card and pull $2700 out on the back end.

          You guyz are looking to do this like full time. get a freakin contract signed 6 months for X dollars. Lock spots in. You want to scale? you have to know that month in and month out you are not having to get back into a market and continually sell spots. THATS a machine.

          That whole we can save a penny and talk to this guy to get this and that, and only sell 6 spots because we are going to give this away to make peanuts in the end.. and then we will be back next month because your marketing is not effective in any way shape or form so you will need to fill 5 of the 6 spots. That's just work man.

          The whole I don't want to do anything concept is all fine and dandy AFTER you have built the machine. to think that from the start it will work like that.. I have a feeling you know better... but from what I have seen here gjabiz will be doing little to no work because BUFFALO will be doing it... all I can say is know and understand leverage.... who has how much, what's brought to the table, and is it worth sharing your food with those that bring little.
          Well said mate.
          Besides this type of biz model has been around for yonks. It is a good concept but from
          my personal experience the hardest part will be selling the advertising spaces. The second hardest part is getting the biz owners to hand out the cards, they are too busy to be thinking about that.
          I do appreciate that the OP is wanting to find a way to build a better mousetrap but IMHO I don't think the 9 X 12 card is the way to go.
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          • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
            Originally Posted by zoro View Post

            IMHO I don't think the 9 X 12 card is the way to go.
            Zoro,

            That's good news.

            I'd much rather have you figure it out now, than start
            another 3 or 4 page thread and discover it later. j/k
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          • Profile picture of the author savidge4
            Originally Posted by zoro View Post

            Well said mate.
            Besides this type of biz model has been around for yonks. It is a good concept but from
            my personal experience the hardest part will be selling the advertising spaces. The second hardest part is getting the biz owners to hand out the cards, they are too busy to be thinking about that.
            I do appreciate that the OP is wanting to find a way to build a better mousetrap but IMHO I don't think the 9 X 12 card is the way to go.
            If you want to start talking Whack? the AU postal system LOL yeah this type of system is not going to work as well in AU as it does in USA. I think you can use the ahh whats it called "unaddressed service" you can send 5.125x9 ( 130 x 240mm ) I believe. So a card that is less than 50grams (1.3 ozs ) is .18 to .24 cents depending on the delivery location? I think... just start working with this stuff for clients.

            There are a ton of rules and stipulations on this stuff. The weight of the paper as required, I am finding this a big hurdle, it is throwing me over the max weight. The color and the orientation and allowance for printed areas and making things work within those areas is a pain as well. and knowing what weeks have holidays and don't.. understanding the worth and cost for 7 day delivery vs 14 day delivery.. it really is a whole other ball game. Its your basic as we call it in the States, cluster Flick.

            I basically see a nicely priced failure coming my way! LOL but live and learn.
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        • Profile picture of the author ivanela33
          Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

          The cost estimations for 2500 cards at $300 to $500 is way off... I can get 10,000 printed for $600.

          So lets talk 10,000 for a moment... $600 for the cards and $1600 to mail them ( EDDM ) so your in to the project for $2200 signed sealed and delivered. and remember that's TEN THOUSAND cards.
          I like the set you've described in this thread but Mr. Savidge, when was the last time you mailed out these flyers using EDDM? EDDM is currently 18.3 cents and was 17.5 cents for the past year and so months. Also, what kind of paper stock did you use to make these flyers? Sorry for all these questions but from my estimations, my math shows a couple $$$ in difference. Am I missing something in the calculation say you use a 14 pt cardstock?
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          • Profile picture of the author savidge4
            Originally Posted by ivanela33 View Post

            I like the set you've described on this thread but Mr. Savidge, when was the last time you mailed out these flyers using EDDM? EDDM is currently 18.5 cents and was 17 cents for the past year and so months. Also, what kind of paper stock did you use to make these flyers? Sorry for all these questions but from my estimations, my math shows a couple $$$ in difference. Am I missing something in the calculation say you use a 14 pt cardstock?
            You have to keep in mind that I do about 50,000 total mailings a month ( on a slow month ) so maybe my prices are a bit different? I use 16pt or 100lb or 110lb if I can get it. I prefer matte finishes in general so tend to go towards the 100lb from gotprint.

            In terms of postage pricing... I pay far less than what is suggested here. Im not going to let the cat out of the bag in a forum such as this one how.. but if you go speak with your local postmaster they may be able to guide you into a direction that may reduce you postage expense by the order of more than 50%
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  • Profile picture of the author BUFFALOBT
    Maybe there is an opportunity here to partner up on a scale able model where there is enough $$$ in it to go around...based on several variables like # of editions, frequency of editions, cost, etc.

    Here is the current $$$ breakdown of my 6 ad 6.25x11 model:

    EXPENSES
    print $419(5,000)
    postage $875(EDDM)
    sort/deliver to post office $135.00
    ad design $200.00
    paypal fees $60.00

    TOTAL GROSS PROFIT $2,394(based on $399/ad x 6)
    TOTAL EXPENSES $1,689
    NET PROFIT $705

    NET goes up or down of course based on all variables. PayPal of $60 can be almost 100% eliminated with Chase QuickPay...ad design can go down to $25/ad or $150 vs. $200...etc.

    I gave a $25 discount to re up in future editions, so that lowers the ad price from $399 down to $374.

    So the question is...can we collectively knock out enough editions, and have enough on "auto pilot"...to all make money by splitting up ~$700(or less with ad discounts) ongoing?
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  • Profile picture of the author Freebiequeen1999
    I have done a couple co-op ad flyers - before I ever heard of Bob Ross....but they were for shopping centers - my client was the day spa and I got everyone else in the center to advertise and I made money, my client got their ad free both times

    my spas did help me get others

    if you can scale it very local - the more local the better - it may work better

    I would be interested in PM's or input...however I am not afraid to pick up a phone LOL

    I did get a 9x12 in my mailbox a couple months ago - the big problem I saw with it was that it was pretty spread out - too far apart for some of the biz who joined in. The stuff advertised was really "local" stuff

    I agree about co-op ad dollars - good idea to get one like that as a starter

    Networking - offer to a network group - I like the Rotary etc idea....get a couple people in BNI involved maybe?

    In sales I always found Monkey see monkey do - get that anchor....get a target....if you have a shopping center or a couple centers near each other no one wants to be left out

    The one I did the owner of the center did give some money to make the flyer - and I named it after the center...I told all the biz that they were getting a discount cause the management had sponsored a space....but they still had to pay "their share"....no one wanted to be left out

    the other one some did opt out but it was a bigger strip center

    these are just some ideas
    I have done other co-op deals too....with printing and flyers - get a couple good ones "in" ...then take it away - if they don't sign now Giovanni will get the pizza spot - and so forth JMO

    offering an exclusive on this scale is a no brainer - cause they are stuck in a coupon mag right next to another Italian restaurant or next to another facial salon or next to another auto repair etc

    You wil be the only one yay
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  • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
    One of the most overlooked formats when considering an ad program, is the business card.

    It's also one of the least expensive to produce.

    I can get 10,000 printed, full color, 2 sides, for less than $100, with no shipping.

    You can get the same prices for an ad on a business card $200 - $400, as an ad on a larger format
    Even more if the program is exclusive.

    A simple 4 ad program can produce $1,000 in income, in as little as 2-3 hours.

    Another nice thing about business cards is they fit in a pocket or a wallet. They are easier to keep and use.

    They are easier to distribute than just about anything else, too. No delivery costs.

    Keep them in mind, if you're considering an ad program.
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    • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
      Originally Posted by Ron Lafuddy View Post

      One of the most overlooked formats when considering an ad program, is the business card.

      It's also one of the least expensive to produce.

      A simple 4 ad program can produce $1,000 in income, in as little as 2-3 hours.
      .
      Yippee. All I wanted was 200 measly bux a day...but NOW, I'm all ears...got a WSO Ron? I'm buying if you do.

      How do we find out abut the $ 1,000.00 in 2 to 3 hours? I think a lot of us would like to know, don't you?

      gjabiz (Mr. low thinker with my little 200 dollar a day machine)

      PS. Would you prefer PM?
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      • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
        Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post

        Yippee. All I wanted was 200 measly bux a day...but NOW, I'm all ears...got a WSO Ron? I'm buying if you do.

        How do we find out abut the $ 1,000.00 in 2 to 3 hours? I think a lot of us would like to know, don't you?

        gjabiz (Mr. low thinker with my little 200 dollar a day machine)

        PS. Would you prefer PM?
        Yippee Yourself, Gordo.

        Looks like you've had the equivalent of a "forum tantrum" with the bolded black and red fonts in your post.

        Sorry if you're upset. Are you feeling well?

        As I recall, per your original post, and the title of this thread, you wanted $200 a day for "doing nothing".

        Is that correct?

        "That is my pipe dream. I'm a lazy old man who would like to make 200 bux a day and do nothing to get it."

        That's your statement, isn't it?

        I believe You'll have to write THAT WSO yourself, good buddy. The one about doing nothing and getting paid for it.

        I certainly don't have one for you.

        Perhaps you already have and the purpose of this thread was to generate interest.
        I can just about hear Gomer Pyle's response, "Surprise, Surprise!"

        I wrote a post about the merits of using business cards as a print ad format, based on my experience.

        Seems to fit in a thread where print ad formats like postcards and flyers are discussed, don't you think?


        PS We'll skip the PM's if you don't mind. Let's keep it right out here on the forum. OK?
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        • Profile picture of the author sb
          Originally Posted by Ron Lafuddy View Post

          Yippee Yourself, Gordo.

          Looks like you've had the equivalent of a "forum tantrum" with the bolded black and red fonts in your post.

          Sorry if you're upset. Are you feeling well?

          As I recall, per your original post, and the title of this thread, you wanted $200 a day for "doing nothing".

          Is that correct?

          "That is my pipe dream. I'm a lazy old man who would like to make 200 bux a day and do nothing to get it."

          That's your statement, isn't it?

          I believe You'll have to write THAT WSO yourself, good buddy. The one about doing nothing and getting paid for it.

          I certainly don't have one for you.

          Perhaps you already have and the purpose of this thread was to generate interest.
          I can just about hear Gomer Pyle's response, "Surprise, Surprise!"

          I wrote a post about the merits of using business cards as a print ad format, based on my experience.

          Seems to fit in a thread where print ad formats like postcards and flyers are discussed, don't you think?


          PS We'll skip the PM's if you don't mind. Let's keep it right out here on the forum. OK?
          Hey Ron,

          I could be wrong, but I think you took him the wrong way and that he was sincerely interested in what you were talking about.
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  • Profile picture of the author bennyvaldes
    I believe in the very beginning you have to build that machine and pit in some hours, days and weeks! You can't just put something there and it would just rain $200 a day. An airplane doesn't fly on autopilot parked in the airport. It has to hit the run way, build some good speed and momentum enough to be able to take off and find stability in the air. There's always turbulence in that very beginning due to cross winds but once you get past that, you'll start seeing the sun in the distance.
    Then when it's finally been in the air a bit of time, then and only then the autopilot is turned on and the plane take you instead of you flying it. Pilots still make sure they are paying attention to all the indicators of the plane they are directing because weather does affect the plane. Things happen on the way on it can detour the plane a bit and cause you to take manual control again.
    Just think of it this way. Build your business. THEN let it be and move on to another. You've got to build the foundations before you build the fortress. Other than that short term "money tomorrow" businesses who promise you the world WON'T have long lasting effect.
    Don't build a hype, build a business.
    -benny
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    Benny Valdes
    My blog: My Passive Income Docudiary

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    • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
      Originally Posted by bennyvaldes View Post

      I believe in the very beginning you have to build that machine and pit in some hours, days and weeks! You can't just put something there and it would just rain $200 a day. An airplane doesn't fly on autopilot parked in the airport. It has to hit the run way, build some good speed and momentum enough to be able to take off and find stability in the air. There's always turbulence in that very beginning due to cross winds but once you get past that, you'll start seeing the sun in the distance.
      Then when it's finally been in the air a bit of time, then and only then the autopilot is turned on and the plane take you instead of you flying it. Pilots still make sure they are paying attention to all the indicators of the plane they are directing because weather does affect the plane. Things happen on the way on it can detour the plane a bit and cause you to take manual control again.
      Just think of it this way. Build your business. THEN let it be and move on to another. You've got to build the foundations before you build the fortress. Other than that short term "money tomorrow" businesses who promise you the world WON'T have long lasting effect.
      Don't build a hype, build a business.
      -benny
      Benny, I believe you ought to read through the full thread before commenting. Everyone involved has built businesses and are experienced marketers; this is how to ramp one up on autopilot.
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      • Profile picture of the author bennyvaldes
        Hi! I do apologize. I did read the post as I do always and just focused on one aspect of it. I do see and understand where I went wrong in my posting. Kinda still learning about posting on forums still so please, my apologies. I will definitely make sure im clearer and more focused on the topic at hand. Sorry about that.
        -respectfully Benny Valdes
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        Benny Valdes
        My blog: My Passive Income Docudiary

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        • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
          Benny, this is the Warrior Forum. You offered a sincere opinion about starting a business, building the machine first. You owe no one an apology.

          It is a nice gesture, and you may have learned something about posting on this forum, where you will find all kinds of people...just in this one little thread alone, you get a good sample of what to expect from the WF.

          If you study just this thread for a few minutes you may experience a light bulb, ah-ha moment about this place.

          But don't let one comment deter you from sharing your experience and knowledge with the group, just keep the Advanced Internet Pareto Principle (80/20 rule) in mind... it is at the WF, a 95-5 principle...keep 5 in mind and ignore the 95 who are the naysayers, critics, forum and grammar police and speak your truth.

          Do that, and you'll be a welcome breath of fresh air.

          gjabiz

          PS. Still waiting for Ron Lafuddy to share some info about making $1,000.00 in 2 to 3 hours as posted in #55 in this thread. Ron??


          Originally Posted by bennyvaldes View Post

          Hi! I do apologize. I did read the post as I do always and just focused on one aspect of it. I do see and understand where I went wrong in my posting. Kinda still learning about posting on forums still so please, my apologies. I will definitely make sure im clearer and more focused on the topic at hand. Sorry about that.
          -respectfully Benny Valdes
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          • Profile picture of the author bennyvaldes
            Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post

            Benny, this is the Warrior Forum. You offered a sincere opinion about starting a business, building the machine first. You owe no one an apology.

            It is a nice gesture, and you may have learned something about posting on this forum, where you will find all kinds of people...just in this one little thread alone, you get a good sample of what to expect from the WF.

            If you study just this thread for a few minutes you may experience a light bulb, ah-ha moment about this place.

            But don't let one comment deter you from sharing your experience and knowledge with the group, just keep the Advanced Internet Pareto Principle (80/20 rule) in mind... it is at the WF, a 95-5 principle...keep 5 in mind and ignore the 95 who are the naysayers, critics, forum and grammar police and speak your truth.

            Do that, and you'll be a welcome breath of fresh air.

            gjabiz

            PS. Still waiting for Ron Lafuddy to share some info about making $1,000.00 in 2 to 3 hours as posted in #55 in this thread. Ron??
            Thank you so much. I see how it can be. lol But I guess I have to roll with it. But it's fine. It'll make my skin thicker. You have to take the good and the bad and with that said good times and bad times have to show up. So maybe that was just one of those times and I understand it all. Believe me I get it every once in a while on my blog. I'm new to this online entrepreneur business but people are everywhere. Trust me, I worked in retail for 16 years as store manager. It's totally cool. I have to adapt the the ocean i'm in. Thanks a lot though. That does help to see people want to help out. I need all the help I can get even if its just to lift me up or a pat on the back. THANKS!
            -benny
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            Benny Valdes
            My blog: My Passive Income Docudiary

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  • Profile picture of the author Freebiequeen1999
    Well the real difference in this forum and any other is that many people posting have a real agenda - they want to coach you or want to sell you their products. I really laugh at the "gurus" who post inane requests and want others to help them

    So unlike other forums you have people who barge into every conversation with a sales pitch, some suble and some are just a direct pitch (usually using a translator program haha)
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    • Profile picture of the author Barry Unruh
      Originally Posted by Freebiequeen1999 View Post

      Well the real difference in this forum and any other is that many people posting have a real agenda - they want to coach you or want to sell you their products.
      Well, Since you brought that up....Tomorrow morning at 8AM, I am launching...

      Or not..
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  • Profile picture of the author Freebiequeen1999
    Surprise Surprise LOL
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  • Profile picture of the author dq70
    There is a private group of 9x12ers doing remote selling with the following common denominators.
    1. large high income areas (80-90k+) routes on EDDM, with a min of 5K but prefer, 10K or a bit over that even.
    2 doing a 2 step email that is simple but doesn't reveal the price, just the simple benifits pitch, and join the coop, and explains it will be hitting only high income (naming areas/neighborhoods) for the classic "only x cents per ad.
    3 the most favorable is a 18 spot ad, logo on 1 side, small , big squares $279-$295 is commonly the strike price per space, an EZ yes! for 5K EDDM
    4 after they get 2-3 cards out, they split/strike with "Everyone's wanting to do 10K mailing(notice above prefer 10k+ homes), so the mailing will DOUBLE but since I'm printing it and can pass on the savings to all of us, It'll only be $495 if you want in, BTW that's less than a nickle an ad!- NOT A TYPO!"
    search your big areas with high income. get a good business scraper that also scrapes emails, phone numbers, etc. Most are seeing 2-3 ok's per 25-30 emails right now.
    BTW if you 2 step it, you get a better "ok ill do it" if you follow up the "whats the price("raising their hands") with a phone call closing. many are still just emailing the second email.
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