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Lead Gen/Rent-Site Success Formula

by tigerbait
80 replies
Guys, listen up.

I've got nothing to sell, there's no aspirations for a WSO, and I'm going to be somewhat vague in regards to any specific niche.

My backstory is irrelevant, and doesn't mean jack squat to anyone but me, and I understand that. Just know that I started with nothing. Questions are welcome, and I will answer if I can.

Here's the formula.

1. Create a website with tracking number.

2. SEO the hell out of it.

3. Once calls begin to come in (or even before), scrape with local scraper:

- bing
- yahoo
- yelp
- yp.com

4. Register free mailchimp acct.

5. Import all emails from step 3 to free mailchimp acct.

6. Send a short letter describing how many calls are coming in, and that you have no one
to service the calls; and you need someone not only qualified, but reliable for YOUR customers.

7. Wait for emails and calls. They will come within 48 hours of initial email.

8. Tell em what you have (x number of calls), what it'll do for them (make 'em more money).

9. Leads are 100% exclusive.

10. "First come first served"

11. When you get them on the phone, re-enforce first come first serve by subtly mentioning you don't have a bunch of time to talk, because you have 3-5 more calls to make regarding the offer.

12. Profit. (as long as you provide what you promise)

13. Rinse Repeat in the same niche across the country.


------


I made this post to give back to our community, because I've learned a great deal here; and I totally understand it's a stupid simple process. However, it works. Like Gangbusters.

I just hope this thread doesn't appear so simplistic that you guys rip me a new one.

If you have questions, post em, and I'll try to respond in detail.

Appreciate this place. Hopefully I can help someone.

T
#formula #gen or rentsite #lead #success
  • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
    Originally Posted by tigerbait View Post

    Guys, listen up.

    I've got nothing to sell, there's no aspirations for a WSO, and I'm going to be somewhat vague in regards to any specific niche.

    My backstory is irrelevant, and doesn't mean jack squat to anyone but me, and I understand that. Just know that I started with nothing. Questions are welcome, and I will answer if I can.

    Here's the formula.

    1. Create a website with tracking number.

    2. SEO the hell out of it.

    3. Once calls begin to come in (or even before), scrape with local scraper:

    - bing
    - yahoo
    - yelp
    - yp.com

    4. Register free mailchimp acct.

    5. Import all emails from step 3 to free mailchimp acct.

    6. Send a short letter describing how many calls are coming in, and that you have no one
    to service the calls; and you need someone not only qualified, but reliable for YOUR customers.

    7. Wait for emails and calls. They will come within 48 hours of initial email.

    8. Tell em what you have (x number of calls), what it'll do for them (make 'em more money).

    9. Leads are 100% exclusive.

    10. "First come first served"

    11. When you get them on the phone, re-enforce first come first serve by subtly mentioning you don't have a bunch of time to talk, because you have 3-5 more calls to make regarding the offer.

    12. Profit. (as long as you provide what you promise)

    13. Rinse Repeat in the same niche across the country.


    ------


    I made this post to give back to our community, because I've learned a great deal here; and I totally understand it's a stupid simple process. However, it works. Like Gangbusters.

    I just hope this thread doesn't appear so simplistic that you guys rip me a new one.

    If you have questions, post em, and I'll try to respond in detail.

    Appreciate this place. Hopefully I can help someone.

    T
    Have you (yourself) done this?
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    • Profile picture of the author tigerbait
      Originally Posted by Ron Lafuddy View Post

      Have you (yourself) done this?
      yes. it's the process I use, and I used it as recently as yesterday. step #11 is very important, and very effective. The customer I talked to yesterday at first wanted to look everything over and decide. I told him no problem. He then asked if anyone else had called or emailed me. I told him yes, and that I'm calling folks back in the order that they initially contacted me, I had 4 more folks to call, and the first person to send money will secure the calls.

      Within 30 seconds he went from "let me look it over" to "yes, let's do this, how do I get payment to you".
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      • Profile picture of the author qu4rk
        Originally Posted by tigerbait View Post

        The customer I talked to yesterday at first wanted to look everything over and decide.
        Ok, so you email them with the offer. They call or email back. You get on the phone. What did this guy want to look over? Did you send him something like the site or something? Or was it the #'s he wanted to look over?
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        • Profile picture of the author tigerbait
          Originally Posted by qu4rk View Post

          Ok, so you email them with the offer. They call or email back. You get on the phone. What did this guy want to look over? Did you send him something like the site or something? Or was it the #'s he wanted to look over?
          I can't recall his exact words, but it went from "let me think it over" to "how do I get payment to you" very, very quickly.

          However, since there are leads coming in daily in that city, I did attach a screen shot of the latest calls from the call tracking dashboard, and mentioned in the initial email blast that I could set them up with a test user and give them viewing access to the calls in real time if they wanted. I believe that may have been what he was referring to as far as looking things over.
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  • Profile picture of the author Barry Unruh
    So...

    You're selecting a local market that needs leads, such as Insurance Agents, Real Estate Agents, Chiropractors, etc... You build a site and SEO it to start getting phone calls.

    You then scrape to find all businesses within that industry, Insurance Offices as an example, then you email those offices to sell them leads.

    Did I summarize that properly?
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    • Profile picture of the author tigerbait
      Originally Posted by Barry Unruh View Post

      So...

      You're selecting a local market that needs leads, such as Insurance Agents, Real Estate Agents, Chiropractors, etc... You build a site and SEO it to start getting phone calls.

      You then scrape to find all businesses within that industry, Insurance Offices as an example, then you email those offices to sell them leads.

      Did I summarize that properly?
      Yep. Exactly. I've had more success building the call volume up first before contacting any businesses. It's a lot easier to sell "Hey, I've got 50 calls a month coming in for XYZ service, do you want them?", because you're essentially selling money in the sense of "send me $350, and I'll send you $2,000 in business."

      I've been successful with this process in 12 different areas of the U.S.

      1 has not been successful, even though it's generating 60-70 calls/month. For whatever reason, the folks in this city balk at me. ha ha

      And that city is Louisville, Kentucky.

      EDIT: I do not sell per lead. I charge a flat monthly fee using a sliding scale based on call volume. The reason I moved from pay per lead to flat monthly is because I was unable to keep up with the call volume & listening to every call. I do leave money on the table by doing this, but it is so much more simple than attempting to keep up with 300-500 calls per month (total across all my clients)

      EDIT #2: For Billing, I use automatic payments via check printing software. The client fills out an auto-draft authorization form, and each month I print the checks, and go to the bank.
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      • Profile picture of the author bananapeel
        Originally Posted by tigerbait View Post

        EDIT: I do not sell per lead. I charge a flat monthly fee using a sliding scale based on call volume. The reason I moved from pay per lead to flat monthly is because I was unable to keep up with the call volume & listening to every call. I do leave money on the table by doing this, but it is so much more simple than attempting to keep up with 300-500 calls per month (total across all my clients)
        Leaving money on table alright. How long would it take you to listen to 500 calls? Lets say 3 minutes per call to be generous and you can do 20 calls an hour. If you can generate an extra 1500 per month(number would probably be higher) by spending 1500 minutes on the phone you are making 1/dollar a minute to listen to phone calls.... So basically for 25hrs a month you can get paid 60 dollars an hour. Thats like 6hrs a week. Thats 18k a year. I personally find a way to make it work where I am getting paid 60/hour to listen to phone calls. Like spending 1 hour every night reviewing calls from that day. Or have my wife, girlfriend, or anyone I can trust do it for a little extra cash. I'd find a way to oursource it somehow if doing it myself wasnt an option. Either way, like you said, leaving money on the table.
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        • Profile picture of the author tigerbait
          Originally Posted by bananapeel View Post

          Leaving money on table alright. How long would it take you to listen to 500 calls? Lets say 3 minutes per call to be generous and you can do 20 calls an hour. If you can generate an extra 1500 per month(number would probably be higher) by spending 1500 minutes on the phone you are making 1/dollar a minute to listen to phone calls.... So basically for 25hrs a month you can get paid 60 dollars an hour. Thats like 6hrs a week. Thats 18k a year. I personally find a way to make it work where I am getting paid 60/hour to listen to phone calls. Like spending 1 hour every night reviewing calls from that day. Or have my wife, girlfriend, or anyone I can trust do it for a little extra cash. I'd find a way to oursource it somehow if doing it myself wasnt an option. Either way, like you said, leaving money on the table.
          It was more than just time spent listening to the calls, it was the headache dealing with clients. When I was doing it per lead on one of my 80 call/mo sites, the client bitched and griped one month and said that only 30 of the 80+ calls were legit. I was listening to every single call, every month at that point; and knew he was full of BS.

          I told him fine, whatever, and fired him on the spot. I'm not in this for headaches, and charging per lead with high volume calls for each client is nothing but a headache. Yeah, I'm leaving money on the table, but when I moved to monthly fees, clients don't bitch and gripe about every little call, heck they don't even gripe at all, and the fee flies under the radar for them, bc their ROI is so good.

          On top of that, rather than micro-managing each call, and dealing with disputes, etc, in the time it takes to do that each month, a person could build out 15-20 sites a month.

          In 3 months you've got 45-60 sites generating leads.

          At $300/month for each site you're looking at $13,500-$18,000 per month without the nit-picking headaches. I prefer this much more over haggling with clients about whether a call was legit or whether they closed the sale or whatever, even though "closing the sale" has zero relevance toward whether the call was legit or not, they still complain about it.
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          • Profile picture of the author bananapeel
            Originally Posted by tigerbait View Post

            It was more than just time spent listening to the calls, it was the headache dealing with clients. When I was doing it per lead on one of my 80 call/mo sites, the client bitched and griped one month and said that only 30 of the 80+ calls were legit. I was listening to every single call, every month at that point; and knew he was full of BS.

            I told him fine, whatever, and fired him on the spot. I'm not in this for headaches, and charging per lead with high volume calls for each client is nothing but a headache. Yeah, I'm leaving money on the table, but when I moved to monthly fees, clients don't bitch and gripe about every little call, heck they don't even gripe at all, and the fee flies under the radar for them, bc their ROI is so good.

            On top of that, rather than micro-managing each call, and dealing with disputes, etc, in the time it takes to do that each month, a person could build out 15-20 sites a month.

            In 3 months you've got 45-60 sites generating leads.

            At $300/month for each site you're looking at $13,500-$18,000 per month without the nit-picking headaches. I prefer this much more over haggling with clients about whether a call was legit or whether they closed the sale or whatever, even though "closing the sale" has zero relevance toward whether the call was legit or not, they still complain about it.
            Fair enough. How are you pricing your rentals? Say for a local niche with avg ppc is 13-15 USD at say 50 calls a month. 100 calls? I'd estimate avg job is around $300 with potential for a 1-2k on bigger jobs.
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            • Profile picture of the author tigerbait
              Originally Posted by bananapeel View Post

              Fair enough. How are you pricing your rentals? Say for a local niche with avg ppc is 13-15 USD at say 50 calls a month. 100 calls? I'd estimate avg job is around $300 with potential for a 1-2k on bigger jobs.
              I would probably calculate it based on the average close rate for the industry, and test the pricing to find a sweet spot that #1) is high enough to be fair to me in terms of the work involved maintaining the calls, but #2) Low enough to where the client didn't see it as much of an expense.

              Say the Average close rate is 30%, then that's 15 jobs closed on 50 calls.

              At $300 per job, the client just made $4,500.

              I think 700-1000 would be where I would begin testing, and see if there was any push back. If there isn't, I'd raise the price a bit on the next client, and see how it goes. At this point I'd rinse and repeat price test increases on each new client as I expand into new cities until I get push back on the price.

              Once I get push back, then I'd drop the price down a little, and this price would be the baseline for all new clients in this particular industry.
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              • Profile picture of the author rgesm
                Originally Posted by tigerbait View Post

                I would probably calculate it based on the average close rate for the industry, and test the pricing to find a sweet spot that #1) is high enough to be fair to me in terms of the work involved maintaining the calls, but #2) Low enough to where the client didn't see it as much of an expense.

                Say the Average close rate is 30%, then that's 15 jobs closed on 50 calls.

                At $300 per job, the client just made $4,500.

                I think 700-1000 would be where I would begin testing, and see if there was any push back. If there isn't, I'd raise the price a bit on the next client, and see how it goes. At this point I'd rinse and repeat price test increases on each new client as I expand into new cities until I get push back on the price.

                Once I get push back, then I'd drop the price down a little, and this price would be the baseline for all new clients in this particular industry.
                in your opinion which companies pay the most for leads or renting out a site per month? I heard tree cutting services is big in the USA.
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  • Profile picture of the author massiveray
    This might be a nice little process you have here, however the huge parts are missing, the actual useful bits.

    I know you said you'd be vague but....

    SEO the hell out of it? Haha

    A lot of the people here need step by step instructions in how to actually do stuff like this and the biggest problem with this type of lead gen is that in order to cultivate that "send me $350 and I'll send you $2000" mindset, you actually need to be able to generate the leads.

    I'm sure people would love to see exactly how you set up a site, how you perform SEO and what conversion optimisation you do. That would make this thread one of the best that has been posted around here lately.

    I know you said you have no WSO aspirations, so you might as well give away the farm here for free if you don't hope to make any money off it.
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    • Profile picture of the author tigerbait
      Originally Posted by massiveray View Post

      This might be a nice little process you have here, however the huge parts are missing, the actual useful bits.

      I know you said you'd be vague but....

      SEO the hell out of it? Haha

      A lot of the people here need step by step instructions in how to actually do stuff like this and the biggest problem with this type of lead gen is that in order to cultivate that "send me $350 and I'll send you $2000" mindset, you actually need to be able to generate the leads.

      I'm sure people would love to see exactly how you set up a site, how you perform SEO and what conversion optimisation you do. That would make this thread one of the best that has been posted around here lately.

      I know you said you have no WSO aspirations, so you might as well give away the farm here for free if you don't hope to make any money off it.
      Haha, yeah, SEO info is found all over this forum, so if a person isn't good at SEO or at least doesn't know the basics, then they're SOL unless they run PPC campaigns, which I do not.

      SEO process is pretty simple:

      1) Optimize Onsite SEO
      2) Build links through PBN, Article Distribution
      3) Build social signals via facebook, twitter, social bookmarks.
      4) Build as many pages as possible that target several long tail kws each.

      That's really all there is to it as far as the build out. I target every long tail I can find, because that's where the money is. I don't even concern myself for the broad kws, and don't care if I rank for kws like "Niche CITY".

      Conversion Optimization is simple and plain integrating a mobile version with a click to call button.

      I learned most of my SEO knowledge from 'ole StomperNet (remember those guys? lol), and it still works today as far as onsite optimization goes.

      I could be wrong, but it seems most folks' problem is the process of making the actual sale, which is really what the thread was about.

      Since I haven't been around in a while, I'm not sure how many folks out there attempting lead gen are having difficulties generating legit leads.

      But I will say that when I shifted from focusing on broad local kws to focusing on as many long tail local kws as I could is when I turned the corner with generating leads & closing clients. In all honesty, I doubt many competitors even know I exist, because I mainly only show up for long tails.
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      • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
        Originally Posted by tigerbait View Post

        Haha, yeah, SEO info is found all over this forum, so if a person isn't good at SEO or at least doesn't know the basics, then they're SOL unless they run PPC campaigns, which I do not.

        SEO process is pretty simple:

        1) Optimize Onsite SEO
        2) Build links through PBN, Article Distribution
        3) Build social signals via facebook, twitter, social bookmarks.
        4) Build as many pages as possible that target several long tail kws each.

        I'm already doing this on a limited basis and though I respect you sharing your experience, you're making the SEO part of the process seem a lot easier than it really is. Building a solid PBN for a niche isn't easy - or cheap. Also, Google is on a seek and destroy mission to de-index as many PBNs as possible because they don't like having their serps manipulated.

        I've recently switched to primarily using PPC and it's not only much less work (once it's set up), but it's not going against Google's TOS and the clicks are measurable and predictable. If I get SEO traffic, great! But it's not my primary focus anymore.
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        • Profile picture of the author tigerbait
          Thanks for your input, Joe.

          While, I understand the seo explanations are simplistic, the point of the post was the sales process, not seo. I figured everyone here had at least a basic, if not advanced, understanding of seo.



          Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

          I'm already doing this on a limited basis and though I respect you sharing your experience, you're making the SEO part of the process seem a lot easier than it really is. Building a solid PBN for a niche isn't easy - or cheap. Also, Google is on a seek and destroy mission to de-index as many PBNs as possible because they don't like having their serps manipulated.

          I've recently switched to primarily using PPC and it's not only much less work (once it's set up), but it's not going against Google's TOS and the clicks are measurable and predictable. If I get SEO traffic, great! But it's not my primary focus anymore.
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        • Profile picture of the author zoro
          Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

          I'm already doing this on a limited basis and though I respect you sharing your experience, you're making the SEO part of the process seem a lot easier than it really is. Building a solid PBN for a niche isn't easy - or cheap. Also, Google is on a seek and destroy mission to de-index as many PBNs as possible because they don't like having their serps manipulated.

          I've recently switched to primarily using PPC and it's not only much less work (once it's set up), but it's not going against Google's TOS and the clicks are measurable and predictable. If I get SEO traffic, great! But it's not my primary focus anymore.
          Right on Joe, I totally agree. I've been doing lead gen for a few local clients for several years and the SEO work required to stay ranked on first page ain't so easy.
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        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
          Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

          I'm already doing this on a limited basis and though I respect you sharing your experience, you're making the SEO part of the process seem a lot easier than it really is. Building a solid PBN for a niche isn't easy - or cheap. Also, Google is on a seek and destroy mission to de-index as many PBNs as possible because they don't like having their serps manipulated.

          I've recently switched to primarily using PPC and it's not only much less work (once it's set up), but it's not going against Google's TOS and the clicks are measurable and predictable. If I get SEO traffic, great! But it's not my primary focus anymore.

          I am going to chime in here... PPC is great.. I personally think SEO is better. It really is not as much work as one might think, and PLEASE don't try a PBN, its just a let down waiting to happen.


          If you take your SEO strategy and go "old school" Pay attention to keyword density ( 2 to 3% or so ) and ensure you have a good linking structure, the rankings just kind of fall into your lap, and fast. It simply is not as complicated as many make it.
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          • Profile picture of the author qu4rk
            Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

            If you take your SEO strategy and go "old school" Pay attention to keyword density ( 2 to 3% or so ) and ensure you have a good linking structure, the rankings just kind of fall into your lap, and fast. It simply is not as complicated as many make it.
            Can you elaborate by what you mean by go "old school"? Also, can you elaborate on what you mean by good linking structure?

            Thanks
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            • Profile picture of the author savidge4
              Originally Posted by qu4rk View Post

              Can you elaborate by what you mean by go "old school"? Also, can you elaborate on what you mean by good linking structure?

              Thanks
              Starting with the easier of the 2. Good linking structure is the linking of same context based pages within your site, and having at least 2 pages pointing at each page. So you have a page about dogs.. you want 2 other pages about "dogs" linking to that page. If your site is about dogs and cats, you would want to refrain if possible linking a dog page to say a cat page. ( I hope that makes sense )

              Modern thought on web rank has a lot to do with PBN's and external linking and all of that stuff. In MOST cases it simply is not needed. Internal linking and proper word counts with a focus on keyword density, keyword proximity, and proper keyword positioning will get you to the top quickly.

              Old school thinking ( understanding ) of how html code is looked at by a search engine spider / bot is basically top to bottom and left to right. More prominence is placed to the top of the page, and also to the left of the page.

              An H1 tag as an example:

              "Keyword is placed into a H1 Tag" vs "An H1 tag is where keywords are placed" the first example is stronger. Simply because the keyword is all the way to the left of the tag.

              Back in the day Keyword tags where read in the exact same manor. Prominent keywords would have been listed to the left, and less prominent to the right. The same concept is alive and well today. I will tell you many argue this.. but time and again when I share these concepts with people, it simply works, and not only works, but works well and fast.
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        • Profile picture of the author Scott Stevens
          Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

          I'm already doing this on a limited basis and though I respect you sharing your experience, you're making the SEO part of the process seem a lot easier than it really is. Building a solid PBN for a niche isn't easy - or cheap. Also, Google is on a seek and destroy mission to de-index as many PBNs as possible because they don't like having their serps manipulated.

          I've recently switched to primarily using PPC and it's not only much less work (once it's set up), but it's not going against Google's TOS and the clicks are measurable and predictable. If I get SEO traffic, great! But it's not my primary focus anymore.
          Hi Joe,

          Thanks for that. Any insight into what niches you find are profitable using PPC?

          Thanks a million.
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  • Profile picture of the author bananapeel
    Solid reply I appreciate the info. You spoke of a sliding scale. How does that work? What do you do if you happen to under perform one month?

    P.S. Check your inbox!
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    • Profile picture of the author tigerbait
      Originally Posted by bananapeel View Post

      Solid reply I appreciate the info. You spoke of a sliding scale. How does that work? What do you do if you happen to under perform one month?

      P.S. Check your inbox!
      I mainly have issues with over performing, and in this case I attribute it to the cost of doing business, and do not request additional money for that month. Say the client is on the 50 call/mo fee, and this month the call volume jumps to 70-90 calls, which vaults them up 1-2 pay levels.

      I have everything set up to be advantageous to the client. So in this case, the client would not be immediately bumped in case the increased call volume is a fluke. What I do is keep them at the same pay level, and monitor the call volume more closely in the 2nd month, if the volume maintains the higher performance, then the client is bumped into the appropriate fee level.

      Same policy is in effect if a site under performs, they stay at the same pay level, and the volume is monitored the next month, if the volume is still lower than normal, then the client is bumped down a pay level until I get the volume back up.

      Using this policy over time, I've found everything evens out. And, like I said, I mainly have had to deal with sites over performing the pay level, and it is taken care of by using this policy. I'm okay with eating the cost for a month or 2, because it will keep the client happy and earn their trust in knowing that I'm being as fair as possible.
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      • Profile picture of the author bananapeel
        Originally Posted by tigerbait View Post

        I mainly have issues with over performing, and in this case I attribute it to the cost of doing business, and do not request additional money for that month. Say the client is on the 50 call/mo fee, and this month the call volume jumps to 70-90 calls, which vaults them up 1-2 pay levels.

        I have everything set up to be advantageous to the client. So in this case, the client would not be immediately bumped in case the increased call volume is a fluke. What I do is keep them at the same pay level, and monitor the call volume more closely in the 2nd month, if the volume maintains the higher performance, then the client is bumped into the appropriate fee level.

        Same policy is in effect if a site under performs, they stay at the same pay level, and the volume is monitored the next month, if the volume is still lower than normal, then the client is bumped down a pay level until I get the volume back up.

        Using this policy over time, I've found everything evens out. And, like I said, I mainly have had to deal with sites over performing the pay level, and it is taken care of by using this policy. I'm okay with eating the cost for a month or 2, because it will keep the client happy and earn their trust in knowing that I'm being as fair as possible.
        Great info thanks. Are you collect payment upfront for each month? or billing them after
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        • Profile picture of the author tigerbait
          Originally Posted by bananapeel View Post

          Great info thanks. Are you collect payment upfront for each month? or billing them after
          Upfront payment. The only time I allow payment after the fact is when a current client in good standing requests scaling into a new city, and we are in the middle of a billing cycle. As a general rule, all new clients must pay upfront.
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  • Profile picture of the author zoro
    Some good info here, thanks for sharing.
    You say you SEO the hell out of it, how are you finding the best Long-tail Keywords to use?
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    • Profile picture of the author tigerbait
      Originally Posted by zoro View Post

      Some good info here, thanks for sharing.
      You say you SEO the hell out of it, how are you finding the best Long-tail Keywords to use?
      I don't necessarily find the best long tails, what I do is try to target them all, or at least as many as I possibly can.
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  • Profile picture of the author Matthew Iannotti
    Very good idea and simple. No need reinventing the wheel.
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  • Profile picture of the author Defacto
    I agree with Joe. I also do this with PPC (Adwords/Bing/Facebook) and it is not only very profitable but you are now in a position to upsell, cross-sell and offer pretty much anything you want to your clients. I also use only email to find clients and then handpick those who reply. Here's today's responses so far from an email blast:

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    • Profile picture of the author Underground
      Originally Posted by Defacto View Post

      I agree with Joe. I also do this with PPC (Adwords/Bing/Facebook) and it is not only very profitable but you are now in a position to upsell, cross-sell and offer pretty much anything you want to your clients. I also use only email to find clients and then handpick those who reply. Here's today's responses so far from an email blast:

      Nice work. And that question based subject line is killer. Man, I wish when I started out it was learning this model and sticking with it only.

      Perfectly suited to one man band warrior type businesses and consultants.

      How many emails did you send to get those replies?
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      • Profile picture of the author Defacto
        Originally Posted by Underground View Post

        Nice work. And that question based subject line is killer. Man, I wish when I started out it was learning this model and sticking with it only.

        Perfectly suited to one man band warrior type businesses and consultants.

        How many emails did you send to get those replies?
        The only thing I'll say is that subject line only got a little over 7% open rate but I use a lot of different templates/subject lines to change it up. I mean you can use a more generic subject to get more opens but it just means you will get more complaints and roughly the same percentage of positive replies.
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        • Profile picture of the author Underground
          Originally Posted by Defacto View Post

          The only thing I'll say is that subject line only got a little over 7% open rate but I use a lot of different templates/subject lines to change it up. I mean you can use a more generic subject to get more opens but it just means you will get more complaints and roughly the same percentage of positive replies.
          This is what jumped out at me as impressive. It's easy to get response rates with ambiguous subject lines, but once a person realizes it's something commercial, they're usually just dismiss it.

          Yours weeds out people who aren't interested right away, and gets convo's with those who are. 7% is really, really nice for a direct, cards on the table 'I'm selling something' approach, specially seeing as it can be scaled up to big level.
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    • Profile picture of the author ivanela33
      Originally Posted by Defacto View Post

      I agree with Joe. I also do this with PPC (Adwords/Bing/Facebook) and it is not only very profitable but you are now in a position to upsell, cross-sell and offer pretty much anything you want to your clients. I also use only email to find clients and then handpick those who reply. Here's today's responses so far from an email blast:

      With this model, do you start paying for leads ahead of finding a client? If so, how expensive does it actually get for you before you start getting paid?
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      • Profile picture of the author Defacto
        Originally Posted by ivanela33 View Post

        With this model, do you start paying for leads ahead of finding a client? If so, how expensive does it actually get for you before you start getting paid?
        Yes, and I had only one not interested after the week's trial so far. I didn't bother trying to find a local competitor in that case, but I could have. You have to use some common sense and take a good hard look at who you are sending leads to. But I do invest first. Otherwise most business owners are very leery working with guys like us. They have been burned before and they get promotions via email, phone and snail mail all the time. Even when I offer a week trial they are still suspicious as hell and I don't blame them.

        I have done a lot of PPC and got burned by my own ignorance, lost a lot of money, when I first got started (not lead gen but another business), so be careful and really learn the ropes if you plan on trying this. But it is paying off very well for me now. I love it.
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        • Profile picture of the author ivanela33
          Originally Posted by Defacto View Post

          Yes, and I had only one not interested after the week's trial so far. I didn't bother trying to find a local competitor in that case, but I could have. You have to use some common sense and take a good hard look at who you are sending leads to. But I do invest first. Otherwise most business owners are very leery working with guys like us. They have been burned before and they get promotions via email, phone and snail mail all the time. Even when I offer a week trial they are still suspicious as hell and I don't blame them.

          I have done a lot of PPC and got burned by my own ignorance, lost a lot of money, when I first got started (not lead gen but another business), so be careful and really learn the ropes if you plan on trying this. But it is paying off very well for me now. I love it.
          Thanks for replying. Do you recommend a certain forum or program to look into? When you mean having to spend some money out of pocket to start getting some leads are you talking more than 1K?
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    • Profile picture of the author Scott Stevens
      Originally Posted by Defacto View Post

      I agree with Joe. I also do this with PPC (Adwords/Bing/Facebook) and it is not only very profitable but you are now in a position to upsell, cross-sell and offer pretty much anything you want to your clients. I also use only email to find clients and then handpick those who reply. Here's today's responses so far from an email blast:

      Great stuff. Can you possibly shed any light on the niches you are finding are profitable for you?

      Thanks.
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  • Profile picture of the author Defacto
    tigerbait please let us know how you use seo to get sites ranked because like zoro and Joe stated it is not easy to get and KEEP sites ranked. Videos are not easy anymore either. Can we see a demo of a site you got ranked? I'm not doubting you I would just like to learn how because I have all but given up on seo except ranking google maps pages. (google my business).
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    • Profile picture of the author tigerbait
      Originally Posted by Defacto View Post

      tigerbait please let us know how you use seo to get sites ranked because like zoro and Joe stated it is not easy to get and KEEP sites ranked. Videos are not easy anymore either. Can we see a demo of a site you got ranked? I'm not doubting you I would just like to learn how because I have all but given up on seo except ranking google maps pages. (google my business).
      Defacto, I totally understand, however I can't show a demo site. I learned that the hard way. You IM'ers are just too damn sneaky.

      SEO is basic, honestly. From what I learned through another member here is that there are lead gen guys out there uncovering lead gen sites and their linking strategy, then they sabotage the sites & any linking network they use. With that said, I'm sure you understand why I'm extremely hesitant about even showing a site that isn't making money.

      Pro Tip: SEO for long tail, and don't worry so much about broad local kws.
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      • Profile picture of the author SirThomas
        Originally Posted by tigerbait View Post

        SEO is basic, honestly.

        Pro Tip: SEO for long tail, and don't worry so much about broad local kws.
        Is your SEO for organic search only or maps as well?
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    • Profile picture of the author 5757
      Originally Posted by Defacto View Post

      tigerbait please let us know how you use seo to get sites ranked because like zoro and Joe stated it is not easy to get and KEEP sites ranked. Videos are not easy anymore either. Can we see a demo of a site you got ranked? I'm not doubting you I would just like to learn how because I have all but given up on seo except ranking google maps pages. (google my business).
      Hey Defacto

      Can i pick your brain with something?

      1. You mentioned in the above post that you rank google maps pages. If you were to target a local niche that was nowhere near you, how would you create a business listing for it? What address do you use - i thought google usually sends a postcard to the address you list for verification purposes?

      2. Can you explain how you rank google map pages? Do you only build citations or are there other methods involved too?

      Thank you in advance
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  • Profile picture of the author FBN
    Very good post.

    Can you give us a timeline of how long (average) the process takes from buying a domain to how long it takes to get it ranked and then sold/rented.
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    • Profile picture of the author tigerbait
      Originally Posted by FBN View Post

      Very good post.

      Can you give us a timeline of how long (average) the process takes from buying a domain to how long it takes to get it ranked and then sold/rented.
      My very first lead gen site was ranking and generating leads within a month. It took 5-6 months to find a long term client for it. During those 5-6 months, I went through more than a handful of clients, though I can't recall how quickly I had the first client, because it was back in 2012/2013. This turned out to be not the best of niches.

      Other niches are similar in ranking and generating leads. The 2nd niche I entered generated its first lead within a few days to a week (can't recall, again, because it was back in 2013), and I began selling the leads a week later via PPL. When the volume went crazy is when I began having headaches, and switched to the rent/lease model.

      In general, though, I'm able to generate leads within the first month. Sometimes sooner, sometimes not. But it's a far cry from the 5-8 month turn around time most guru's preach.
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  • Profile picture of the author FBN
    Nice. So do you get caught up in using a certain wordpress theme? or anything that looks nice with an opt in form?
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    • Profile picture of the author tigerbait
      Originally Posted by FBN View Post

      Nice. So do you get caught up in using a certain wordpress theme? or anything that looks nice with an opt in form?
      Currently, I have one theme that's slightly customized for each build out regardless of the niche.
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  • Profile picture of the author Underground
    It's there really serious money in doing with SEO? To me, there's too much uncertainty and time involved compared to adwords, facebook and other ppc methods, like real time bidding etc, to be able to make maximum returns.

    Someone approached me recently about generating leads via email and then selling them. Basically email prospecting as a service.

    As the replies Defacto showed, this is a service business owners desperately need. I told him he was onto a winner doing that, because I know of some highly effective email systems for generating leads and he could do it fast.

    I used to generate 10-15 leads a day with email.

    With email, a sophisticated and proven email approach like breakthroughemail.com, with a high response rate, you could generate a nice stream of leads for most businesses in a matter of days, and quickly build a fast roster of clients willing to pay you for that. Same with facebook ads and PPC.


    I doubt that can be done using SEO as the way to generate leads. Am I wrong? What advantages are there for using SEO, other than we all got conned into thinking the Rent a Serp thing was viable due to all the hype and endorsements at the time?

    You don't even know how many hits you're going to generate for a website. Serious question, why are people using SEO to generate leads for this model?
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    • Profile picture of the author zoro
      Originally Posted by Underground View Post

      It's there really serious money in doing with SEO? To me, there's too much uncertainty and time involved compared to adwords, facebook and other ppc methods, like real time bidding etc, to be able to make maximum returns.

      Someone approached me recently about generating leads via email and then selling them. Basically email prospecting as a service.

      As the replies Defacto showed, this is a service business owners desperately need. I told him he was onto a winner doing that, because I know of some highly effective email systems for generating leads and he could do it fast.

      I used to generate 10-15 leads a day with email.

      With email, a sophisticated and proven email approach like breakthroughemail.com, with a high response rate, you could generate a nice stream of leads for most businesses in a matter of days, and quickly build a fast roster of clients willing to pay you for that. Same with facebook ads and PPC.


      I doubt that can be done using SEO as the way to generate leads. Am I wrong? What advantages are there for using SEO, other than we all got conned into thinking the Rent a Serp thing was viable due to all the hype and endorsements at the time?

      You don't even know how many hits you're going to generate for a website. Serious question, why are people using SEO to generate leads for this model?
      Exactly Underground, because we are marketers and not SEO experts. Marketers usually want to move quickly with as little hassle as possible. If we spent $10 on PPC and got paid $20 for the lead, that's a 100% ROI. Not saying you shouldn't do good On-Page SEO plus a few back links, but that alone, in my experience, is going to take a long time to get a website ranked, let alone keep the ranking.
      Like I said, we are marketers, not SEO experts, and we don't have time to waste.
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      • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
        Originally Posted by zoro View Post

        Exactly Underground, because we are marketers and not SEO experts. Marketers usually want to move quickly with as little hassle as possible. If we spent $10 on PPC and got paid $20 for the lead, that's a 100% ROI. Not saying you shouldn't do good On-Page SEO plus a few back links, but that alone, in my experience, is going to take a long time to get a website ranked, let alone keep the ranking.
        Like I said, we are marketers, not SEO experts, and we don't have time to waste.

        This^^^

        PPC also allows marketers to determine what keywords are actually generating traffic, and of those, which are converting. It's a hassle to set up, but once you have that information you'll then know exactly which keywords to build pages and posts around. There's very little guess work involved.

        If a niche is profitable you'll then start bringing in leads and money faster. If it's a dud you'll have put in some effort to find that out, but you'll know not to waste anymore time on it.
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      • Profile picture of the author Underground
        Originally Posted by zoro View Post

        Exactly Underground, because we are marketers and not SEO experts. Marketers usually want to move quickly with as little hassle as possible. If we spent $10 on PPC and got paid $20 for the lead, that's a 100% ROI. Not saying you shouldn't do good On-Page SEO plus a few back links, but that alone, in my experience, is going to take a long time to get a website ranked, let alone keep the ranking.
        Like I said, we are marketers, not SEO experts, and we don't have time to waste.

        Exactly this who model is built on ROI. And there a way to invest that will return an ROI, if there is one to be had in a matter of days.

        I've had the chance to go through probably the most indepth SEO course on this from Matt De Cruz at themezoom, that goes the whole 9 yards with the keyword research, LSI perfect web silos, step by step SEO plans for content generation, citation building, rss mash-ups, social signal, link building, GSA link pyramids, masked PBN's on different networks, basically about as involved as you can get to really make a site stick and target hundreds of keywords.

        And then the Aussie guy who generates leads in a day of so via Adwords or Facebook.

        I'm envious of people in on this model, I've got so much on in other things I can't do it right now. Maybe that objective viewpoint has helped me see how much of gold mine there is for people who know how to sell and market. There really is.


        But there is just to much extra work, time and uncertainty in SEO that is preventing people making money. You're right, who's got time to waste?
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by Underground View Post

      Serious question, why are people using SEO to generate leads for this model?
      I think this is a very valid question... I would look at the answer to being more financial in nature. You are developing a site to produce leads. In general with this model, the site development is taking place before there is a client. no client, no cash flow. SEO then becomes very appealing. Present time spent, for the possibility of future gain.

      The other side of this discussion gets into the financial reward on the other side. PPC does not provide exponential growth. I will back step that statement a moment and say that it will and does to a point, but there is a peak in its potential. There is that pinnacle that shoving more money does not yield more return.

      This is the scenario that the advantage of SEO takes over. SEO is not a short sided 1 keyword play. SEO is the development of lists of terms both the ones you are targeting and the ones that by happenstance you stumble over and assert effort towards.

      The literal catch in the whole thing is the actual method to deciding terms to target PPC or SEO and the use of say the adwords tool and you might as well be shooting in the dark. I can not tell you how many times I have run across keyword terms that were "Hidden" or not of interest in terms of the tools used to identify potential traffic and financial gain from terms.

      The reality is there is no "Tool" that will identify these terms, prior to traffic. IF you are only following a PPC campaign, the methods that can be utilized in Webmaster tools and the like to identify other potential terms ( and developing exponential growth not only in traffic but end results IE Leads or sales or what have you ) will simply not be there.

      SEO with proper monitoring allows for this growth to happen.

      I look at traffic development in much the same way I look at financial investment . Why would you place all of your funds into one avenue of traffic development? diversification... be it the platforms you are using a PPC model and also integrating a SEO methodology at the same time, it can only lead to long term financial gain on your part.
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      • Profile picture of the author Underground
        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        I look at traffic development in much the same way I look at financial investment . Why would you place all of your funds into one avenue of traffic development? diversification... be it the platforms you are using a PPC model and also integrating a SEO methodology at the same time, it can only lead to long term financial gain on your part.

        This is just it though. In an ideal world every investment you make will start generating free leads and thousands of hits passive over the long run, but many projects and campaigns are going to take a lot of time money, hardwork and lost opportunity cost, prevent you making money right away, and then not pan out.

        Like investing in every stock is not going to yeild a positive return.

        As an onlooker, I just find it unnecessary.

        There's money to be made far quicker with other methods, like James the Aussie's method he outlined on another thread.
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        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
          Originally Posted by Underground View Post

          This is just it though. In an ideal world every investment you make will start generating free leads and thousands of hits passive over the long run, but many projects and campaigns are going to take a lot of time money, hardwork and lost opportunity cost, prevent you making money right away, and then not pan out.

          Like investing in every stock is not going to yeild a positive return.

          As an onlooker, I just find it unnecessary.

          There's money to be made far quicker with other methods, like James the Aussie's method he outlined on another thread.
          What I find I guess I could say "Fascinating" with SEO is the fact it is like living and breathing. Once there is an understanding of say Google Analytics and webmaster tools ( as well as Bing Tools ) you can start looking at what it is you are targeting and what maybe you should be targeting.

          A solid SEO strategy is not picking 10 keywords and running with those and those only. It is constantly seeing real traffic data once the site is up and running and taking advantage of potential gains above and beyond your initial keyword set.

          This very anal and tedious portion of SEO is what I believe develops the long term sustainability of an SEO strategy over PPC. PPC simply does not have the same data sets available with the given tools at most peoples access. You are for all intensive purposes using jaded and skewed data to make investment decisions ( Keyword Term discovery using Adwords ) In the overall BIG picture scope the model is kinda sorta flawed.

          Before I get hammered here... I do use paid advertising. I do use FaceBook. I do use Twitter. I do use Google. I do use Bing. I personally prefer the social outlets due to the ability to target beyond a term and more specifically to demographics and or geography etc. This is a far different approach than the search engine keyword term model.

          But even after that being said.. Social avenues has its flaws as well.. the term that comes to mind is "Reach" Twiiter is GREAT.. if you have the follower base. FaceBook is GREAT if you have the follower base and understand the overall rules of engagement with time scheduling to maximize your reach.

          I think the most important factor here in reference to the rental model is longevity, and one of consistency. Those are not terms that in my experience I would use to describe PPC. I understand for many those are not terms they would use to describe SEO. BUT... SEO is bashed for Google changing of the Algo etc.... I have said it before if Panda and Penguin ( light content and bad linking basically ) bashed you... that's not Google being mean.. that's the developer being lazy.

          I can say that its NOT Google that's inconsistent, its the developer that is. Google is more than clear with what will work and what will not. There may be some grey area in there, but there is clearly points of not enough and to much, and its anybody that does SEO to find a happy medium.
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    • Profile picture of the author animal44
      Originally Posted by Underground View Post

      Serious question, why are people using SEO to generate leads for this model?
      Done properly, SEO will provide leads long after you've stopped paying.
      Plus you get additional targeted traffic from sources other than SERPs (via links that are built).
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Underground View Post

      It's there really serious money in doing with SEO? To me, there's too much uncertainty and time involved compared to adwords, facebook and other ppc methods, like real time bidding etc, to be able to make maximum returns.

      Someone approached me recently about generating leads via email and then selling them. Basically email prospecting as a service.

      As the replies Defacto showed, this is a service business owners desperately need. I told him he was onto a winner doing that, because I know of some highly effective email systems for generating leads and he could do it fast.

      I used to generate 10-15 leads a day with email.

      With email, a sophisticated and proven email approach like breakthroughemail.com, with a high response rate, you could generate a nice stream of leads for most businesses in a matter of days, and quickly build a fast roster of clients willing to pay you for that. Same with facebook ads and PPC.


      I doubt that can be done using SEO as the way to generate leads. Am I wrong? What advantages are there for using SEO, other than we all got conned into thinking the Rent a Serp thing was viable due to all the hype and endorsements at the time?

      You don't even know how many hits you're going to generate for a website. Serious question, why are people using SEO to generate leads for this model?
      This makes sense.This is your forte. The question is, "Can you get the customers who are willing to pay you for this service by the same methods" ? Please tell us how that is accomplished.
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      • Profile picture of the author Underground
        Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

        This makes sense.This is your forte. The question is, "Can you get the customers who are willing to pay you for this service by the same methods" ? Please tell us how that is accomplished.
        By what methods? Generating leads via email. For a business?
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        • Profile picture of the author John Durham
          Originally Posted by Underground View Post

          By what methods? Generating leads via email. For a business?
          I mean are you going to generate customers to buy your service by the same means that you are providing the service (via online lead generation?),or; how is customer acquisition going to be accomplished for your business in this scenario?

          How would YOU (Underground) go about getting customers for your business if this was your model?
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  • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
    With the whole SEO / Adwords options, and without taking sides, It would be a wild guess that good on page SEO has to help (if done correct) with a high quality score from giggle, producing lower advertising costs, so those just batting Adwords may? be spending more dimes in the quest to make money that they need to, combined with some extra free traffic ? Just thinking out loud.
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    • Profile picture of the author tigerbait
      Originally Posted by tryinhere View Post

      With the whole SEO / Adwords options, and without taking sides, It would be a wild guess that good on page SEO has to help (if done correct) with a high quality score from giggle, producing lower advertising costs, so those just batting Adwords may? be spending more dimes in the quest to make money that they need to, combined with some extra free traffic ? Just thinking out loud.
      It would certainly help.

      I'm not sure how this thread got derailed into being an SEO vs. PPC argument as to which is the best model for lead gen. You could certainly go to the OP, and replace "Seo the hell out of it" with "Set up PPC, and optimize it to the best of your ability", and nothing else in the post would be different except maybe running a 3-7 day PPC test to see how many leads can be generated before going full bore in scaling. But it is what it is I guess.
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      • Profile picture of the author GTC1187
        Defacto,

        How much are you charging your clients per month?
        How much of that goes to adspend?
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Still hoping for some input here...
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    • Profile picture of the author Defacto
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Still hoping for some input here...
      I use mostly email now but am slowly transitioning to PPC for my own lead generation. It's easier for me to get leads for bamboo flooring (for example) than it is for marketing consultant or advertising agency unless I want to spend a fortune. My client pays for the bamboo flooring PPC costs but I have to foot the bill for my own PPC. And email is so cheap and effective it is hard to resist while I am building my business up.
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      • Profile picture of the author savidge4
        Originally Posted by tryinhere View Post

        With the whole SEO / Adwords options, and without taking sides, It would be a wild guess that good on page SEO has to help (if done correct) with a high quality score from giggle, producing lower advertising costs, so those just batting Adwords may? be spending more dimes in the quest to make money that they need to, combined with some extra free traffic ? Just thinking out loud.
        Yes, landing page quality does produce lower cost advertising. One of the first things I look at in approaching a new market space is what others are doing, and what pages they are sending to. If they are using the same page for multiple points of entry... well life gets easier and cheaper.

        Originally Posted by Defacto View Post

        I use mostly email now but am slowly transitioning to PPC for my own lead generation. It's easier for me to get leads for bamboo flooring (for example) than it is for marketing consultant or advertising agency unless I want to spend a fortune. My client pays for the bamboo flooring PPC costs but I have to foot the bill for my own PPC. And email is so cheap and effective it is hard to resist while I am building my business up.
        My absolute line in the sand... products and services. Products, I SEO and don't look back - with one exception... a single product. Bamboo flooring as the example, there is simply no question SEO would be the goto method from where I am sitting. There are simply W A Y to many variations of terms to even consider hitting with PPC.

        Services is a whole other ball game. variation is minimal ( depending how micro focused the service is ) and targeting clients would be well served with a PPC model.

        Using e-mail... for a product? This seriously would never cross my mind - aside from developing a list if possible. ( Bamboo flooring as the example... I would without question target a funnel series in the discovery phase of search terms, but would not focus much on that into the compare and buy phases. )

        As for services, yes I would use a semi targeted cold e-mail option ( I personally don't use this option - but have partnerships and clients I do this for )

        Something that has not been mentioned in this discussion... Especially in local terms where there is a pack listing... very often there is a #1 or #2 listing above the pack. If links on top are clicked most often.. again the SEO position #1 and #2 are more valuable than a pack listing, and there are studies that indicate that Ad listing are not as effective as the #1 position pack / organic listing.

        What will separate a decent ad bait, to a great one is really focusing on the title and description. Like I have mentioned above in most cases this effort is not taken across multiple terms. Each term needs a separate lander, to decrease its overall cost, and increase its ROI / effectiveness. I know you are reading this thinking "Aww that's to much work" but when you can in many cases see ad cost savings of 50% or more - well, its worth the effort.

        There simply is no right and wrong here.. you simply have to move into the direction of go with what you know. I would however suggest that once you have YOUR system in place that you start educating yourself on the other methods that are available to further increase your efforts on many fronts.
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        • Profile picture of the author qu4rk
          Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

          very often there is a #1 or #2 listing above the pack.
          I haven't seen this with the new 3 pack. It used to be common before the 3 pack, but now...I have not seen this. Do you have any example listings where there is an organic listing above the 3 pack?
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        • Profile picture of the author John Durham
          Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post




          My absolute line in the sand... products and services. Products, I SEO and don't look back - with one exception... a single product. Bamboo flooring as the example, there is simply no question SEO would be the goto method from where I am sitting. There are simply W A Y to many variations of terms to even consider hitting with PPC.
          I have a friend who makes more than 6 figures online each year selling Bamboo made diapers.

          I guess it's the keyword that counts in this instance. Bamboo has some killer longtails.
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          • Profile picture of the author savidge4
            Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

            I have a friend who makes more than 6 figures online each year selling Bamboo made diapers.

            I guess it's the keyword that counts in this instance. Bamboo has some killer longtails.
            Off the top of my head... organic, disposable, biodegradable, green, eco-friendly, environmentally friendly, compostable, allergen free, bamboo cloth, and those would be a START at the information stage of purchasing. Comparison terms for a product such as this would be silly.. and then buying terms.. geeze.

            Overall search competition for that term is without question workable. minimal site competition - an overall good micro niche in general.

            Whats really interesting is that there are endless amounts of these types of opportunities in micro niche product marketing. I would any day of the week take on this type of business development over lead gen. Less stress.. and the possibilities for far greater money.

            You can rent a site for what.. $1000 a month.. maybe getting into $5000 a month ( doesn't happen very often ) OR you can produce 6 figures and probably not have any inventory... ( I understand most are happy with like $300 a month, and that's just plain out peanuts )

            I have said it before that I believe the best entry into the business of lead gen is to get into product sales. They are very much parallel in marketing ability. Regardless of product or lead gen for a service, the key is TRAFFIC. Learn to PULL traffic with an affiliate site, and lead gen becomes W A Y easier.

            Learning to PULL traffic makes any online endeavor EASIER. In turn having this "Skill" your value is greatly increased. Saying "I can increase your business by 25%", and having the skills and knowledge required to make that happen... its priceless.

            Then you have that ah haw moment and ask "Why am I wasting my time making other people money, when I could be focusing on my own wallet?"
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    • Profile picture of the author massiveray
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Still hoping for some input here...
      It's not always possible, different industries react to different forms of traffic generation.

      For example I can generate leads for businesses, simply by sending cold facebook ads traffic to a landing page and then retargeting them on multiple platforms.

      However to generate leads for myself I send cold facebook ads traffic to content, sort of like a freemium model.

      So I send them to bog post titled something like "how to generate leads for your small business", the idea is that they see the effort and expertise that goes into it and take up a "hey, let me do it for you" type offer.

      I then use retargeting and email indoctrination to sell them a small trust building foot in the door service, for example: set up an adwords express account for £25.

      Then upsell those people who buy to management services (for a couple of hundred a month) or complete funnel creation and management (for a couple of thousand a month).

      The key is knowing your audience, doing your research on them and developing and testing a funnel that will work for them (or yourself).

      I recently wrote a guest post on the more simplistic lead gen systems I use for Matthew Woodward, you can see it HERE if interested.
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  • Profile picture of the author CageyVet
    The OP actually is too many steps. The simple formula of Lead Generation is as follows.

    Step 1 - Actually HAVE a method that you can utilize to generate leads.

    Step 2 - Have a method to FIND and CONTACT businesses that would want leads.

    Step 3 - Put the offer in front of them for this service that they should not resist.

    Step 4 - Profit -> Improve -> Repeat

    Now the individual tactics, strategies, methods utilized in each step can vary vastly.

    I have generated leads with SEO, PPC, Social Media, Video, Email, Postcards, Banner Ads, Craigslist, Newspapers, etc etc. The method of lead generation really does not matter....

    What matters is that you can ACTUALLY Generate Leads at a COST LOWER than what a business will PAY for those leads.

    If you can not generate leads because you have no methods or training to do so, do not get into lead generation unless you want to have a large portion of your profits going to the person that actually generates the leads for you to sell. It does not matter how great Lead Generation sounds as a business....the key point is LEAD GENERATION.

    The finding and contacting business owners is super easy...might not be fun but there is phone, in person, email, ads, networking, etc etc. That is an easy part.

    Selling them on the offer, another easy part if you can actually generating leads at a cost where the business owner can buy them and still make a decent profit.

    Sending them a bill, continually improving and repeating. Well if you want to run a lead generation business or have it as a service in your business, you better learn business, which is all of this stuff.

    I do not care what anyone says on this forum...

    Lead Generation is SIMPLE but it is FAR from being EASY....for someone that is not trained in a method of Generating Leads.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jimp1
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    • Profile picture of the author tigerbait
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  • Profile picture of the author AlphaWarrior
    tigerbait, this was a great thread before it got sidetracked.

    Now, back to the original subject. May I ask several questions?
    1. What do you mean by "I shifted from focusing on broad local kws to focusing on as many long tail local kws as I could"? Can you give an example?
    2. Defacto apparently uses an email subject line "Can we send you some more leads?" and gets a 7% open rate. Do you use something similar and what is your % open rate?
    3. Where are calls directed to initially before you have a client set up?
    4. Do you use the whisper feature so clients know that the lead/call came through you?

    Thanks!
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    • Profile picture of the author tigerbait
      No problem:

      1. What do you mean by "I shifted from focusing on broad local kws to focusing on as many long tail local kws as I could"? Can you give an example?

      Broad Local Keyword: Dentist City
      Long Tail: Dentist Office Near Me City, Where to get my teeth cleaned CITY

      2. Defacto apparently uses an email subject line "Can we send you some more leads?" and gets a 7% open rate. Do you use something similar and what is your % open rate?

      Something similar, yes.

      The last 5 emails were sent out with the following open rate:

      1. 61.1%
      2. 45.5%
      3. 30.7%
      4. 40.1%
      5. 29.4%

      The stats above are for 5 different cities - 1 email to a list of businesses for each city.

      It's worth noting that I studied copy writing for 7 years, so these may not be the average open rates that most folks produce.


      3. Where are calls directed to initially before you have a client set up?

      Generally they aren't directed anywhere at first, and the system simply hangs up on the caller. However, if the volume is sufficient, I may pick a business, route the calls to them without them knowing, then follow up with them after a few calls. In this case I use a whisper, so that they realize who they're talking to when I call.

      It also helps if you just send the calls to a random business. Since the calls are recorded, you'll have something for the prospect to listen to in order to gauge the quality of the calls. Just set them up with a throw away login to your call tracking dashboard for them to use. **Check your state laws with regards to call recording, specifically how many people on the call need to be aware the call is being recorded. In some states it's 1. In others it's 2. Set the whisper accordingly.

      4. Do you use the whisper feature so clients know that the lead/call came through you?


      Once I'm working with someone, I give them the option. Only one of my clients opt to have the whisper on.

      Hope that helps.


      Originally Posted by AlphaWarrior View Post

      tigerbait, this was a great thread before it got sidetracked.

      Now, back to the original subject. May I ask several questions?
      1. What do you mean by "I shifted from focusing on broad local kws to focusing on as many long tail local kws as I could"? Can you give an example?
      2. Defacto apparently uses an email subject line "Can we send you some more leads?" and gets a 7% open rate. Do you use something similar and what is your % open rate?
      3. Where are calls directed to initially before you have a client set up?
      4. Do you use the whisper feature so clients know that the lead/call came through you?

      Thanks!
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  • Profile picture of the author AlphaWarrior
    Thank you for your response tigerbait.

    Your email open rate is amazing. Do you mind sharing one of your subject lines? If not, I understand.

    I have another question. I am familiar with taking credit cards over the internet, but I have never though of checks. What check printing software do you use? Where do you get the auto-draft authorization form? How does the process work?

    Thanks again for the great info.
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    • Profile picture of the author tigerbait
      Originally Posted by AlphaWarrior View Post

      Thank you for your response tigerbait.

      Your email open rate is amazing. Do you mind sharing one of your subject lines? If not, I understand.

      I have another question. I am familiar with taking credit cards over the internet, but I have never though of checks. What check printing software do you use? Where do you get the auto-draft authorization form? How does the process work?

      Thanks again for the great info.
      You're welcome. Glad it could help you.

      I use EZ Check Printing software. Do a google search for it. I believe it was around $40 if you bought it outright, however I found a promo where you could get it free with a purchase of a new domain from a new godaddy acct. So I created a new godaddy account through the EZC promo link, purchased a new domain with the new acct, and the software was emailed to me.

      Here are 3 threads that discuss printing checks for payment:

      http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...ver-phone.html

      http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...s-clients.html

      http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...signature.html

      Those 3 threads should answer all your questions about how to set it up. If you have a question that isn't covered in those threads, just let me know. It's pretty simple, though.

      One thing I'm not sure is covered in those threads with a definitive answer is the Print Ink. You do not need to purchase a magnetic ink printer. Any regular printer will work now days, because the majority of banks have updated their check processing equipment. Once it makes it past your bank, it will clear the Fed Clearinghouse no problem.

      Funny, I now use this program to print my own personal checks rather than buying them from the bank. So there's that, too.

      I'll PM you about the email headlines.

      T
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  • Profile picture of the author 5757
    Originally Posted by tigerbait View Post

    Guys, listen up.

    I've got nothing to sell, there's no aspirations for a WSO, and I'm going to be somewhat vague in regards to any specific niche.

    My backstory is irrelevant, and doesn't mean jack squat to anyone but me, and I understand that. Just know that I started with nothing. Questions are welcome, and I will answer if I can.

    Here's the formula.

    1. Create a website with tracking number.

    2. SEO the hell out of it.

    3. Once calls begin to come in (or even before), scrape with local scraper:

    - bing
    - yahoo
    - yelp
    - yp.com

    4. Register free mailchimp acct.

    5. Import all emails from step 3 to free mailchimp acct.

    6. Send a short letter describing how many calls are coming in, and that you have no one
    to service the calls; and you need someone not only qualified, but reliable for YOUR customers.

    7. Wait for emails and calls. They will come within 48 hours of initial email.

    8. Tell em what you have (x number of calls), what it'll do for them (make 'em more money).

    9. Leads are 100% exclusive.

    10. "First come first served"

    11. When you get them on the phone, re-enforce first come first serve by subtly mentioning you don't have a bunch of time to talk, because you have 3-5 more calls to make regarding the offer.

    12. Profit. (as long as you provide what you promise)

    13. Rinse Repeat in the same niche across the country.


    ------


    I made this post to give back to our community, because I've learned a great deal here; and I totally understand it's a stupid simple process. However, it works. Like Gangbusters.

    I just hope this thread doesn't appear so simplistic that you guys rip me a new one.

    If you have questions, post em, and I'll try to respond in detail.

    Appreciate this place. Hopefully I can help someone.

    T
    Hi,

    I have a few questions regarding your method that I hope you can help me with.

    1. Which tools do you use for keyword research?
    2. When you select a niche to target, do you go after exact match domains (eg www.{town}LimoHire.com) or do you register a domain that sounds like more of an actual company (eg LuxuryLimos.com)?
    3. Would you be kind enough to share your email templates? (I know this is cheeky, but I'd thought I'd ask).

    I look forward to hearing from you.
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    • Profile picture of the author tigerbait
      Originally Posted by 5757 View Post

      Hi,

      I have a few questions regarding your method that I hope you can help me with.

      1. Which tools do you use for keyword research?
      2. When you select a niche to target, do you go after exact match domains (eg www.{town}LimoHire.com) or do you register a domain that sounds like more of an actual company (eg LuxuryLimos.com)?
      3. Would you be kind enough to share your email templates? (I know this is cheeky, but I'd thought I'd ask).

      I look forward to hearing from you.
      Haven't been on in a while, and just saw this. I'll answer best I can.

      1) None. Google Auto Suggest Tool. And I do it manually. Generally the method is type in a random keyword. When auto suggest pops up, I take down all the keywords, discard irrelevant keywords. Then I click enter to show the search results for the original search, scroll to the bottom and copy/paste all of the keywords in the "related searches" display. Discard irrelevant keywords, rinse repeat.

      2) I don't have a preference really. If I can get a domain with the main keyword in it, then that's what I'll do. Otherwise, I'll use a related keyword.

      3) Yes, a bit cheeky However, I will say it's nothing innovative - It's basically in the form of -

      1) Here's what I got
      2) Here's what it'll do for ya (more business)
      3) Here's what to do if you're interested.

      Classic Frank Kern sales copy in a conversation.

      Hope that helps.
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  • Profile picture of the author ivanela33
    Tigerbait:
    Have you noticed any changes in your rankings due to all the algorithm updates? What I mean is, is it still easy to rank and bring leads to your customers? Do you still recommend lead gen as a business model in 2016?
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    • Profile picture of the author tigerbait
      Originally Posted by ivanela33 View Post

      Tigerbait:
      Have you noticed any changes in your rankings due to all the algorithm updates? What I mean is, is it still easy to rank and bring leads to your customers? Do you still recommend lead gen as a business model in 2016?
      Yes, with every algo change, rankings may drop a little, only to come out stronger. Or they just get boosted w no drop.

      Still very viable. Lots of folks don't know wtf they're doing, so makes it even easier hahahaha...

      And still blown away by all the "why would someone use seo for lead gen" comments... lmao.

      Folks just wanna argue I reckon.
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      • Profile picture of the author ivanela33
        Originally Posted by tigerbait View Post

        Yes, with every algo change, rankings may drop a little, only to come out stronger. Or they just get boosted w no drop.

        Still very viable. Lots of folks don't know wtf they're doing, so makes it even easier hahahaha...

        And still blown away by all the "why would someone use seo for lead gen" comments... lmao.

        Folks just wanna argue I reckon.
        Thanks for your reply. You're still using the same methods to do SEO that you posting at the beginning of this thread or have you mixed it up a bit with some PPC as some here suggested?
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        • Profile picture of the author tigerbait
          Originally Posted by ivanela33 View Post

          Thanks for your reply. You're still using the same methods to do SEO that you posting at the beginning of this thread or have you mixed it up a bit with some PPC as some here suggested?

          Yes, same methods. I don't use ppc.
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          • Profile picture of the author ivanela33
            Originally Posted by tigerbait View Post

            Yes, same methods. I don't use ppc.

            Last question, I promise. Are you using any PBN's to strengthen your link building seo strategies?
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            • Profile picture of the author tigerbait
              Originally Posted by ivanela33 View Post

              Last question, I promise. Are you using any PBN's to strengthen your link building seo strategies?
              Yes. Highly recommend them.
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  • Profile picture of the author tigerbait
    Didn't know I had so many Private msgs. Just responded to them all, so if ya pm'd me, check your inbox
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  • Profile picture of the author G9M Blake
    Tigerbait, thank you for this thread. This has pushed me even further towards setting up some sites to develop some lead generation to sell to clients.
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  • Profile picture of the author jvalentin
    Wow, great info here. I have a question, "Who is James the Aussie and where can I find his training?"
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