How To Get Clients Asking For Your Help, So You Can Avoid Rejection And Make More Cash... In 4 Steps

by s62731
47 replies
Hey guys, 2 years ago I put a post up here about Selling Lead Generation. It’s had over 200 replies and 30,000 views. It still shows on the first page of the forum too! But since then the biggest question I keep getting is about how to actually generate the leads. So instead of constantly replying to emails and PMs, here it is in a post. And if you want to check out the other post, here’s a link: How to sell lead generation for the big $$$!

If you’re trying to build a local marketing business, but you’re struggling to close deals worth more than $10k (let alone $1k) and are sick of being rejected, then pay attention.

Because in this post you’re going to learn my 4-step process for getting local business owners ASKING for your help, so that you no longer have to chase them to do business.

Too often I have guys come to me saying things like “I just can’t close the deals”, “I feel like the business owner doesn’t respect me” or the dreaded “He just can’t see how much this will help him!”

It’s frustrating. Isn’t it?

You’re trying to help a business, help them get more customers and grow; but they just don’t seem to grasp how powerful it is. They just see you as “A guy on the phone”.

Well its time to stop “chasing” clients, stop getting rejected and start closing bigger deals.

How?

By getting them COMING TO YOU and asking for your help.

Imagine that. Imagine receiving a call or email saying, “Hi Bob, I heard that you help businesses do XYZ and I was wondering whether you could help me”.

How much easier would it be to close that sale?

A sale where the prospect already knows who you are, what you do and how you can help him. Where before even speaking to him, he trusts you. And on TOP of that, you know he has a problem your product/service can solve.

That my friend, is where the magic happens.

When you can consistently get prospects reaching out to you and asking for your help, you will finally be able to grow your business. You’ll finally be able to develop a consistent income and never have to even consider a day job ever again.

So let’s dive straight on in.

What is the 4-step process?

About 5 years ago now I was trying to make money doing anything under the sun. Selling SEO, Websites and even Social Media “Management”.

But I could never get it working. I was always working my ass off chasing people. Constantly getting rejected.

So what did I do? I learnt how to get them coming to me. I worked for 2 different lead generation companies, studied over 100 books/courses and attended about 15 seminars. Since then I’ve spent over $200,000 on advertising and managed over $1Million in advertising spend. Eventually throughout that journey I got it down to an exact science.

And after breaking it down, it really is only 4-steps.

1. Get in the head of your target market
2. Create an irresistible offer
3. Write a strong message to sell the offer
4. Place the offer and message in front of them

So what we’re doing is putting offers in-front of our target customers and getting them to respond. It might seem confusing now, but bear with me. By the end of this post it will all make perfect sense.

If you can get each of those 4 steps right, you’ll never have to cold call, convince someone of your value or face harsh scrutiny and rejection ever again.

Step #1: Get In The Head Of Your Target Market

If you don’t understand who your target market is or what they’re frustrations and desires are, you’ll never be able to sell your product or service. No matter what system you’re using.

By getting into our customers heads, by really understanding them; we can write ads, copy and offers that make them put their head up and say, “Oh shit, this is talking directly to me. I think this guy can help”.

So let’s do an exercise to get into our prospects head.

First:

Think about who they are as a demographic. Their age, location, occupation and situation.

Here’s an example:

"Owner of a dental practice. 35-50. Based in Phoenix Arizona. Currently trying to grow their dental practice but is struggling to do it."

Pretty brief right? For now it is! But the more we delve into this the more clear it will get.

Second:

Try and put yourself in this prospects head. What is he feeling? What is he thinking?

We need to figure out both his Fears and Frustrations along with his Wants and Aspirations.

Let’s do another example:

Fears and Frustrations:
• Working too long each day
• Can’t afford to put on another dentist until he has filled more “chair time”
• Has already tried to grow his business using the internet with a company and didn’t get a return
• Isn’t spending enough time with the family

Wants and Aspirations:
• Wants to make more money
• Wants to work less
• Wants to be able to put on another dentist
• Wants to spend more time with his family


That’s pretty brief as well. You want to get about 10 for each side, but for the sake of this post it’ll do.

Can you see how we’re starting to get into the target customers head? Can you see how we’re starting to see what he’s thinking and feeling? What’s keeping him awake at night?

Good. Now it’s time to start creating an irresistible offer.

Step #2: Create An Irresistible Offer

We’ve got inside their head. We’ve figured out their wants and aspirations, fears and frustrations.

It’s time to turn that into an irresistible offer.

First:

To do that, you’ve got to get TANGIBLE. What does that mean? We’ve got to take what we got from the previous exercise, and put it into real world examples.

If we don’t get “real” or “tangible” with our offer, they simple won’t respond. It won’t make them go “Holy crap! I need to speak to these guys!”.

So we’ve got to take the general and abstract “want more customers” and turn it into a specific situation.

Here’s the example:

[General = Specific Situation

• Working too long each day = Spending more than 8 hours a day at the practice and working from home.
• Can’t afford to put on another dentist until he has filled more “chair time” = Needs an extra 20 patients a week so that he can hire another dentist and cut his working day by 4 hours.
• Has already tried to grow his business using the internet with a company and didn’t get a return = He spent $6,000 with an online marketing company and didn’t make that $6,000 back.
• Isn’t spending enough time with the family = He comes home from work at 8pm and only gets to spend 30 minutes with his kids before he goes to bed.
• Wants to make more money = Wants to make an extra $30,000 each month in his practice.
• Wants to work less = Wants to be able to come home at 4pm and spend the afternoon playing with his kids, and spending time with his wife.
• Wants to be able to put on another dentist = See’s that if he can hire another dentist, he’ll be able to come home from work by 4pm each day.


We’ve taken the general wants and desires, and put them into a specific situation. Something that’s tangible and measureable.

This is KEY to making our offer irresistible.

Second:

Put those specific outcomes into an offer that would make the dentist stick his ears up and say “I’ve got to look into this!”

Keep in mind you’ve actually got to have a service that helps them achieve something they want to achieve. If your service can’t help them with their goals or desires, you’re wasting your time. They simple don’t want it. For more on what to offer read this post: How to sell lead generation for the big $$$!

Here’s an example offer for this prospective client:

“How to generate 20 new long term dental clients every month”

Can you see how a dentist would look at that and be curious? Fantastic. Let’s continue.

Now you’ve got an understanding of your target market, and you have an “offer” that they would want to find more about, it’s time to wrap it up in a nice message.

Step #3: Write A Strong Message To Sell The Offer

When you’re sharing an offer with a target market, your ability to explain why it’s valuable and how it will help them DIRECTLY impacts the results you will get.

If your message is crap, your response will be too.

However, if your message is awesome, then your response will be to.

Your offer (which is used a headline) grabs their attention. It’s the job of the message to keep their attention, and convince them you can help.

Here’s a simple formula for writing your message:

• If You Are This Person
• Going Through This Problem
• Get This Result
• By Taking This Action

At the moment that will seem like nonsense, but let’s put it into an example:

“Are you dentists who’s trying to grow your practice, but can’t quite figure out how to get more patients through the door?

When you can’t generate clients, it’s incredibly frustrating! You can’t grow and your income is limited.

On top of that, you can’t get enough patients through the door to hire another dentist! This means that you’re working your ass off and not spending enough time with the family.

Well I want to show you my system for generating 20 new long-term dental patients every month.

You’ll see exactly what you can do to start generating more clients and grow your practice so that you can get out of the office!

Enter your name and details into the form below, and we’ll organise a time to chat 1 on 1.”


Take a look at that message. When your target market reads that, it talks directly to them. It’s talking exactly about their frustrations and their desires. And you’re promising to show them how to get the result they want.

Now that’s just a short example I’ve written for this post, but you can see how dentist in that situation would respond to the message.

Once they’ve entered their details for a call; they know who you are, and they’re asking YOU for help. They’re coming to YOU to talk about getting more clients.

Instead of speaking to 50 prospects to find the one who is interested, you’ve got them to put their hand up so you can speak directly to them.

Also, you’re proving to them that you can generate clients because you’re generating them as a client! It’s brilliant.

It’s useless however, if you don’t put this message and advertisement in front of your target market.

Step #4: Place The Offer And Message In-Front Of Them

We’re now at the 4th and final step. We’ve figured out who they are, put together a strong offer and wrapped it in a strong message. But as I mentioned, it’s useless if you can’t get it in-front of them.

There’s many ways to do this. Google Adwords, Direct Mail, Cold Emails, Print Advertising. Pretty much any form of advertising.

But the medium I’ve found to be the best…. Facebook.

With Facebook advertising you have targeting power never seen before in the entire history of advertising.

You can target exact demographics. Like sex, age, location and occupation. You can also target interests, behaviours and even create custom audiences from an email list.

Simply create an advertisement using everything from the previous steps in the process, hone in on your target market and start a campaign!

What Happens Next?

If you follow that simple 4-step process, you will be able to get potential clients coming to YOU and asking for your help.

You won’t have to continually “chase” clients for your service and face constant rejection until you find someone who is interested in your service.

You’ll be able to charge more for what you do (because they’re so hot) and spend more time GROWING your business instead of trying to find prospects.

Using this exact process I’ve generated 70,000 email leads, and over 7,000 consultation leads for myself and my clients.

This article has taken MUCH longer to write than anticipated (about 100 minutes) so I’ll have to stop here.

But if you want to see more about a lead generation business, check out one of my other posts here: How to sell lead generation for the big $$$!

Otherwise, thanks for reading!

- James
#avoid #cash… #clients #make #rejection #steps
  • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
    Well done James for giving reasons why we should be
    getting into the head of our prospects, then giving
    an example so we can understand how to do it
    for ourselves.

    There maybe a handful here who have that
    level of understanding you just demonstrated.

    Thanks for putting in those 100 minutes.

    Best,
    Doctor E. Vile
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  • Profile picture of the author AmericanMuscleTA
    Totally rocked it, James!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author belosfair
    WOW, what a post! Thank you for sharing!
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  • Profile picture of the author dave147
    Great post! and you must keep improving and testing your "Strong Message" and keep improving your "Irresistible Offer" til it becomes an absolute "no-brainer" The ultimate message and offer should result in "immediate responses"
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  • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
    Originally Posted by s62731 View Post

    [I]
    Second:

    Try and put yourself in this prospects head. What is he feeling? What is he thinking?

    We need to figure out both his Fears and Frustrations along with his Wants and Aspirations.

    Let's do another example:

    Fears and Frustrations:
    • Working too long each day
    • Can't afford to put on another dentist until he has filled more "chair time"
    • Has already tried to grow his business using the internet with a company and didn't get a return
    • Isn't spending enough time with the family

    Wants and Aspirations:
    • Wants to make more money
    • Wants to work less
    • Wants to be able to put on another dentist
    • Wants to spend more time with his family


    That's pretty brief as well. You want to get about 10 for each side, but for the sake of this post it'll do.

    Can you see how we're starting to get into the target customers head? Can you see how we're starting to see what he's thinking and feeling? What's keeping him awake at night?

    Good. Now it's time to start creating an irresistible offer.
    Great post, James!

    I've actually seen similar steps listed elsewhere from others, but not used in the way that you're using the information.

    One area where I've really struggled is building a demographic of customers. The first steps of age, income, etc are pretty simple.

    Finding their pain points is where I struggle. Like most, I don't know anything about most industries or the challenges they face both personally and in business.

    How would you find the information to create a list of proven pain points for business owners within a specific industry?

    I'd really appreciate the help.

    Joe
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    • Profile picture of the author fancytop
      Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

      Great post, James!

      I've actually seen similar steps listed elsewhere from others, but not used in the way that you're using the information.

      One area where I've really struggled is building a demographic of customers. The first steps of age, income, etc are pretty simple.

      Finding their pain points is where I struggle. Like most, I don't know anything about most industries or the challenges they face both personally and in business.

      How would you find the information to create a list of proven pain points for business owners within a specific industry?

      I'd really appreciate the help.

      Joe
      The pain points and needs of business owners in different industries, are similar (in terms of lead generation)
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      • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
        Originally Posted by fancytop View Post

        The pain points and needs of business owners in different industries, are similar (in terms of lead generation)
        I disagree, as you'll see in the above post and
        if Joe follows through on the exercise on those
        3 different types of businesses.

        Best,
        Doctor E. Vile

        Going beyond more customers at a lower cost and better customers
        is where you dig up the gold because you can tap into their
        pre existing pain bubbling under the surface.
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    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

      How would you find the information to create a list of proven pain points for business owners within a specific industry?

      I'd really appreciate the help.

      Joe
      James can come in as well.

      Think of a small to medium sized restaurant owner.

      He works long hours and on weekends and holidays as those are the busiest times
      for him.

      What would be his ongoing nagging problem?

      A tradesman who has a few employees
      and has different people answering the phone.

      What would be his frustration on a daily basis?

      A retail store owner.
      What challenges would he face beyond getting customers
      in the store?

      Let's see your answers so we can guide you
      to the answers so you learn better this way.

      Sound good?

      Best,
      Doctor E. Vile
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      • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
        Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

        James can come in as well.

        Think of a small to medium sized restaurant owner.

        He works long hours and on weekends and holidays as those are the busiest times
        for him.

        What would be his ongoing nagging problem?

        A tradesman who has a few employees
        and has different people answering the phone.

        What would be his frustration on a daily basis?

        A retail store owner.
        What challenges would he face beyond getting customers
        in the store?

        Let's see your answers so we can guide you
        to the answers so you learn better this way.

        Sound good?

        Best,
        Doctor E. Vile

        Hmmm....

        Ewen Mack has put me on the spot. Thanks, Ewen. Lol

        I'll see what comes to mind.

        Think of a small to medium sized restaurant owner.

        He works long hours and on weekends and holidays as those are the busiest times
        for him.

        What would be his ongoing nagging problem?
        A few things come to mind.

        He's burned out.

        He needs help to free up some time so he can have a life.

        If he already has employees he could be struggling to consistently meet payroll.

        It doesn't sound like his business can run without him. That's very bad and very stressful. (I know)

        There's also no guarantee that he's making much money, even though he's working a lot of hours.

        If he's married or has an S/O, he's not getting to spend enough time with them and his relationship could be suffering for it.

        If he has kids he knows that he's losing valuable time watching them grow up that can NOT be replaced.

        He may not have medical insurance for himself or his family and they could be at major risk in the event of injury or illness.

        He may not be able to afford life insurance, therefore, his family is not only at risk of being unable to support themselves in the event of his death, but he could actually leave them in major debt (if he's doing business as a sole proprietor), causing them to lose everything they own outright.

        **********

        A tradesman who has a few employees
        and has different people answering the phone.

        What would be his frustration on a daily basis?
        1. Constantly having himself and his employees being interrupted while trying to work.

        2. Not having a secretary/receptionist that's professional, polite and organized to take calls from prospective customers and business contacts, keep his files organized and run his office efficiently so he can focus on activities that are most profitable.

        3. Not being able to find anyone dependable to work in the office.

        4. Not being able to afford to hire anyone, even though he knows he needs to.


        ********

        A retail store owner.
        What challenges would he face beyond getting customers
        in the store?
        Trick question. Customers or prospects? If it's prospects, then he may need to hire others to help him convert them into customers, therefore increasing his cash flow. The profit from the increase in sales should be enough to not only pay the employees, but to also help pay other expenses.

        Paying his overhead. There's a good chance this person would be in a business complex with high rental costs and a long term lease to honor (1-2 years). Electricity, cleaning services, office supplies, insurance, etc.

        Paying for his products. Most retail stores carry a certain amount of inventory and start out many months in debt with bills that are due in 30 days. This can be VERY stressful.

        This is assuming that he's not a service oriented business. That would have other supplies that would have to be paid for, as well, but minimal inventory costs.

        He's likely working 60-70 hours per week or more and has very little personal life. By trying to create a better life for his family and himself, he may come to the realization that he's unintentionally damaged what he already had, because of the time he's lost with his loved ones. He may want to quit and just take a job again, but he's in over his head financially and it would likely lead to bankruptcy. He's basically trapped and needs a solution asap!

        Note: It's amazing how many people get into business without having a solid plan in place for either exiting the business without going bankrupt, or expanding the business without becoming overwhelmed.

        He could be very concerned about losing his family.

        He could be very concerned about damaging his credit.

        It could be taking a toll on his health, and possibly that of his wife, especially if she works and they have kids. Because she's now doing it ALL at home while he's trying to make the business work.

        Another thought, the wife or S/O could decide to work with him part-time to help him get on track, but that may cause friction in their relationship because of the stress and lack of separation from work and home. (I have experience with this, too. You can either do it or you can't. There is no "happy medium".)


        That's all that's coming to me off the top of my head. Please be gentle with your critiques. Lol


        Joe
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        • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
          Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post


          That's all that's coming to me off the top of my head. Please be gentle with your critiques. Lol

          Joe
          Great start and no need to critique what you've got
          because it's an exercise in thinking through
          what another person experiences and how do they
          feel about it.

          So taking the restaurant owner.

          What does he experience daily?

          Working on weekends and holidays.
          Can't watch his kids play sport.

          How does he feel when his son says...

          "Dad, are you coming to watch me play in the finals"

          Ouch!

          Let's take a plumber.

          Daily experience is the phone calls coming in asking the price on whatever it is.

          How does he feel about this?

          Probably he thinks everybody are now price shoppers
          and he has to compete on prices.

          BTW, A Melbourne plumber with a fleet of 10 vans on the road
          doubled his job bookings by getting all phone takers to use a proven script.

          Now the store retailer.
          Let's go with a bed store.

          He sees other stores selling the same brand of beds
          and at lower prices.
          He knows they can have the same profit margins as him
          even though they sell at a lower price because the maker
          gives them better pricing.

          He probably is thinking there's no way out of that
          therefore feels trapped.

          By going through the process of naming a daily occurrence which they don't like,
          then come up with how it makes them feel, you are ready to create a message
          that's made for that one reader...and nobody else.

          See how this creates response in a different league
          compared to the generic that prospects are immune to?

          Best,
          Doctor E. Vile
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          • Profile picture of the author altitudemarketer
            Great thread guys.

            I just started working for an agency, and they are not training us to go this deep...

            I've known quite a feel realtors, and I see that working nights and weekends is a huge pain... also, having the long sales cycle and paperwork and all the surprises that come up when just taking on any customer, rather than being more selective is another pain.

            I've seen that the sheer number of competing realtors is hard on newer realtors, because no one is teaching them to target and niche down.

            I frankly don't see how agencies keep customers (other than forcing them to sign a contract) when they seem to go after so many verticals, and just focusing too much on trying to sell them Google's products as Google Partners.

            Is it possible to work for a big Google agency and still follow the OP's principles?
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            • Profile picture of the author animal44
              Originally Posted by altitudemarketer View Post

              Is it possible to work for a big Google agency and still follow the OP's principles?
              Why would you want to? With even a basic understanding of your customers you can make a killing in your own business... Why make someone else rich...
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              • Profile picture of the author altitudemarketer
                Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

                Why would you want to? With even a basic understanding of your customers you can make a killing in your own business... Why make someone else rich...
                I'm starting to feel that way.

                I signed up because I know someone who knows the owner... and I thought they had it all figured out, including lead magnets / lead gen, building their brand, selling results (not features and clicks), etc... but despite their reputation and ability to do well with Adwords, they are missing a lot of things... and they take the majority of the profit margin... Getting Google certified didn't really do much for me.

                It seems that what I need more than all that agency stuff is a solid understanding of a niche market, and the ability to understand their pain, ask the right questions and target my value proposition towards those pains... then focus on the service that will get them results and good ROI vs just selling them a service.
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          • Profile picture of the author Oziboomer
            Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

            Great start and no need to critique what you've got
            because it's an exercise in thinking through
            what another person experiences and how do they
            feel about it.
            Thanks Ewen, the OP and all contributors to this thread.

            The knowledge gained by building a relationship with clients is invaluable.

            I have one type of business where I get to talk to a wide variety of both business owners and usually spouses of business owners in all types of niches.

            There is a wonderful thing that happens once you have some conversation with the people you meet and start to show empathy for the problems they have.

            One of my clients is a major shipwright and they had issues regarding distance from their ideal clients so they purchased and rebuilt a slipway nearer to the source. We worked on informing their best prospects they would save 2000KM of fuel.

            Also after recent flooding they employed various debris removing companies to clear a passage to their slipways to ensure they could repair the damaged vessels....something they were frustrated with was the local government response to a business crushing problem. We worked on delivering the "safe passage" message.

            Another was a client targeting remote business and their frustration with locating professionals on the ground to service their growing number of clients that were not local.

            The real issue with these situations was putting the pieces of the solution together and being the facilitator of the solution.

            Now these are extreme examples but once you realise that you can solve a problem whether that be personally or via managing a solution, you will find an abundance of people seeking your services.

            Even today without any prospecting I met a future client who was speaking at an event where my company was providing some services.

            Just the tone of their presentation and the fact they hung around to talk to prospects and seemed interested in what role we played in getting the "bums on seats" that my guys had delivered prompted a short but straight to the point...pain and solution model.

            It wasn't a pushy sales call or hungry solicitation of business but merely..."we've been doing this successfully for so many months for them"....do you want to talk about that?

            ...appointment scheduled.
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            • Profile picture of the author s62731
              Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

              Hi,

              Could you please touch on this a bit more?

              Thanks,

              Joe
              The way our prospects think and feel is incredibly complex. Everything interconnects. But there's always something on the top of their mind.

              Now when going through exercises like this, a lot of guys will claim "but that's not everyone". And they're right. But there's always a big issue 60%-80% of our prospects are dealing with.

              So in terms of going deeper.

              Imagine you own a gym and are looking to get more people in for personal training.

              The way you would market to men and women is completely different.

              So we choose women. Then within that, there's different types of women:

              - Women who are already in shape, but want to improve
              - Women who have 5-10 pounds to lose
              - Women who have 10+ pounds to lose

              Once again, the way you would market to these types of women is different.

              So let's just imagine we choose the second category. Women who have 5-10 pounds to loose but can't.

              Now we need to dive deeper into that category. What're their fears and frustrations? (Now I'm not an expert in the industry, so this is just for illustrative purposes)

              - Don't fit into old clothes any more
              - Don't feel attractive (to partner or opposite sex in general)
              - Feels sluggish and tired. Lack of energy
              - Doesn't know what to do about it, doesn't know where to look
              - Doesn't want to have to do extreme dieting or exercising to lose the weight

              Keep in mind this is just a couple of probably 20-30 real problems and frustrations. But let's choose just ONE of those to dive even deeper.

              "Doesn't fit into old clothes anymore"

              How does this make her feel?

              It makes her feel fat. She wonders how she let herself go. It frustrates her because she doesn't think she's changed her diet or exercise over the last 5 years but has "woken up fat".

              When she's buying clothes, she's now has to buy 1 or 2 sizes bigger. This affects the type of clothes she wears and where she shops. Imagine that feeling, of having to change the type of clothes you wear because what used to look good doesn't anymore.

              It would make you feel like crap. It would make you less confident. How would that confidence effect you? Well when she used to go to her husbands family functions she felt like the sexiest woman there. Now her sister in-law looks better. She wants the eyes back on her.

              I could keep going with that, but it's enough to stop.

              Did you notice anything that could be used on a headline, in an advert or in an offer?

              There's so many different angles you could take:

              - Drop 2 dress sizes in 2 weeks
              - How to fit back into your old skinny jeans again
              - Have you been putting on weight despite not changing your lifestyle, diet or exercise routine?

              Once again, I could go on here.

              Now I'm happy with the third option we came up with. But how could it be improved?

              "Have you been putting on weight despite not changing your lifestyle, diet or exercise routine? Well here's how you can LOSE that 5-10 pounds in 4 weeks - without extreme diets or exercise - so you can finally go back to wearing the clothes that make you feel sexy"

              Can you see what I've done there?

              Anybody in the target market we identified would IMMEDIATELY be stopped in their tracks upon reading that. It speaks directly to them.

              It's much better than the other gym around the corner saying "2 Weeks Free Gym Trial".

              And that's just scratching the surface. We haven't dug into many of the other fears/frustrations or wants/aspirations. Heck, we haven't even dug into things like cellulite. But I can tell you a gym using that message would not only be able to attract more of that woman, but also charge a lot more too because they feel like the program and personal trainer is specific to them. They could then create 5-10 different messages for different target markets and put that message in front of them. Instead of 1 generic message for everybody.

              There's a weird phenomenon that happens here. When you can describe your prospects problem better than they can, they automatically assume you have the solution.

              So everyone reading this, how could you use that in your business RIGHT NOW?

              Originally Posted by altitudemarketer View Post

              I'm starting to feel that way.

              I signed up because I know someone who knows the owner... and I thought they had it all figured out, including lead magnets / lead gen, building their brand, selling results (not features and clicks), etc... but despite their reputation and ability to do well with Adwords, they are missing a lot of things... and they take the majority of the profit margin... Getting Google certified didn't really do much for me.

              It seems that what I need more than all that agency stuff is a solid understanding of a niche market, and the ability to understand their pain, ask the right questions and target my value proposition towards those pains... then focus on the service that will get them results and good ROI vs just selling them a service.
              You couldn't be more on point here. Too many people start with a service, and then try and find the people who need it. Instead of finding a specific problem, and then creating a service that overcomes that problem. Just look at 80% of "agencies" that are out there. Most go broke within 5 years. (So do most businesses, often because of the same problem).
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              • Profile picture of the author altitudemarketer
                Originally Posted by s62731 View Post

                You couldn't be more on point here. Too many people start with a service, and then try and find the people who need it. Instead of finding a specific problem, and then creating a service that overcomes that problem. Just look at 80% of "agencies" that are out there. Most go broke within 5 years. (So do most businesses, often because of the same problem).
                Thanks for the feedback James. We all appreciate another great reply with some actionable info on going deeper.

                I'm going to download your new 2015 version of your book.
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              • Profile picture of the author zoro
                Originally Posted by s62731 View Post

                The way our prospects think and feel is incredibly complex. Everything interconnects. But there's always something on the top of their mind.

                Now when going through exercises like this, a lot of guys will claim "but that's not everyone". And they're right. But there's always a big issue 60%-80% of our prospects are dealing with.

                So in terms of going deeper.

                Imagine you own a gym and are looking to get more people in for personal training.

                The way you would market to men and women is completely different.

                So we choose women. Then within that, there's different types of women:

                - Women who are already in shape, but want to improve
                - Women who have 5-10 pounds to lose
                - Women who have 10+ pounds to lose

                Once again, the way you would market to these types of women is different.

                So let's just imagine we choose the second category. Women who have 5-10 pounds to loose but can't.

                Now we need to dive deeper into that category. What're their fears and frustrations? (Now I'm not an expert in the industry, so this is just for illustrative purposes)

                - Don't fit into old clothes any more
                - Don't feel attractive (to partner or opposite sex in general)
                - Feels sluggish and tired. Lack of energy
                - Doesn't know what to do about it, doesn't know where to look
                - Doesn't want to have to do extreme dieting or exercising to lose the weight

                problem).
                I know you only provided this as an example and guide, and a great example it certainly is.

                I have personally tried FB Ads for my clients without much success. One of my clients is in the weight loss business and I suggested to them that I could do lead gen for them through FB Ads. Only problem is Facebook rejects every Ad I put up. They have so many reasons for Ad rejection, here are a few: They say Ad can't have image of pretty girl showing slim belly, they say Ad can't have text content that says people can lose weight, they say ad cannot portray anything that implies a person is fat or needs to lose weight, and the list goes on.

                So my question to you is: Have you had any success in the weight-loss area with FB Ads, and if yes, how did you overcome all their crazy terms obstacles in relation to this market?.
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                • Profile picture of the author jamesfreddyc
                  Originally Posted by zoro View Post

                  I know you only provided this as an example and guide, and a great example it certainly is.

                  I have personally tried FB Ads for my clients without much success. One of my clients is in the weight loss business and I suggested to them that I could do lead gen for them through FB Ads. Only problem is Facebook rejects every Ad I put up. They have so many reasons for Ad rejection, here are a few: They say Ad can't have image of pretty girl showing slim belly, they say Ad can't have text content that says people can lose weight, they say ad cannot portray anything that implies a person is fat or needs to lose weight, and the list goes on.

                  So my question to you is: Have you had any success in the weight-loss area with FB Ads, and if yes, how did you overcome all their crazy terms obstacles in relation to this market?.
                  I'm no expert by any means and perfectly fine with getting shot down if this is way off....

                  -- "Weird exercise removes love handles in 30 days" (or replace "love handles" with some other jargon reference)
                  -- "You have not seen this diet to trick your metabolism"
                  -- "You have been lied to, here's why you struggle with weight"
                  -- "Here's why you quit the gym and a guaranteed way to get in back forever"
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                  • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
                    Originally Posted by jamesfreddyc View Post

                    I'm no expert by any means and perfectly fine with getting shot down if this is way off....

                    -- "Weird exercise removes love handles in 30 days" (or replace "love handles" with some other jargon reference)
                    -- "You have not seen this diet to trick your metabolism"
                    -- "You have been lied to, here's why you struggle with weight"
                    -- "Here's why you quit the gym and a guaranteed way to get in back forever"

                    I'd say this is spot on. The weight loss niche is full of scams that have been beaten to death on most major advertising platforms. I'm not saying that it can't be done on Facebook, but I'd definitely use a different angle.
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                    • Profile picture of the author DABK
                      Someone mentioned mortgage brokers, so I'll chip in.

                      Mortgage broker fears:
                      New rules/regulations coming up; will it cost me to adjust; do I have anything to do or is just a lot of politician's talking nonsense?

                      Are my processors going to make costly mistakes because of the changes?

                      Is my best processor going to quit?

                      Is the refi side going down?

                      Is X realtor referring me only his crappiest deals?

                      How am I going to pay for the vacation to Florida my wife wants?

                      How the hell is X broker closing 2 times more loans then me? Where is he getting all those clients?

                      How do I make sure x loan officer/top producer doesn't go somewhere else?

                      How do I simplify the process for my borrowers when every day they're adding rules and paperwork that needs to be signed?

                      Sometimes, some of them accept low quality borrowers/deals because they don't have enough leads. But are sure they have to improve their processing. They can't even begin to accept that if they had 3 times the leads, for instance, they'd be able to tell X real estate agent to take a hike because every deal that real estate agent has referred was harder to do than anyone else's deal.
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                      • Profile picture of the author jamesfreddyc
                        Great stuff DABK... I especially liked this one and can see how to adapt it to other target demographics. ..


                        How the hell is X broker closing 2 times more loans then me? Where is he getting all those clients?
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                  • Profile picture of the author zoro
                    Originally Posted by jamesfreddyc View Post

                    I'm no expert by any means and perfectly fine with getting shot down if this is way off....

                    -- "Weird exercise removes love handles in 30 days" (or replace "love handles" with some other jargon reference)
                    -- "You have not seen this diet to trick your metabolism"
                    -- "You have been lied to, here's why you struggle with weight"
                    -- "Here's why you quit the gym and a guaranteed way to get in back forever"
                    James, thanks for the suggestions mate. Unfortunately FB Ads do not allow you to reference a persons condition or possible condition. You cannot use the word YOU when referencing a persons likely condition or problem. You cannot use the word Fat together with the word You. You cannot use images that suggest" You could Look Like This".

                    I've tried everything but it just keeps getting rejected, so much so, that they sent me a warning if I continued placing ads for weight loss. So in my experience, FB Ads have been a pain in the A#$@ to work with.
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                    • Profile picture of the author krzysiek
                      I haven't run any ads for weight loss, but I've run ads for dental/orthodontics and I had a few issues there too. Not as much with the ad copy, but more images.

                      It's probably a bit harder with weight loss, though.

                      Don't let it turn you off. Facebook Ads work well. If you can, try a different market - I think you'll find it very, very easy to get ads approved.

                      Originally Posted by zoro View Post

                      James, thanks for the suggestions mate. Unfortunately FB Ads do not allow you to reference a persons condition or possible condition. You cannot use the word YOU when referencing a persons likely condition or problem. You cannot use the word Fat together with the word You. You cannot use images that suggest" You could Look Like This".

                      I've tried everything but it just keeps getting rejected, so much so, that they sent me a warning if I continued placing ads for weight loss. So in my experience, FB Ads have been a pain in the A#$@ to work with.
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                      • Profile picture of the author s62731
                        Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

                        Hi James,

                        Thanks for your reply in the other post. This is something I'm definitely interested in. I kid you not, I'm ready. I've been working the phone for over two decades, done door-to-door and ran my own businesses since mid-2000. I just can't seem to get over the hump.

                        The method of building a customer profile looks a lot like what Andre Chaperon does in his "Tiny Little Businesses" course. He says the same thing about getting out and talking to people, etc. He actually used Justin Brooke as an example for a weight loss niche. This part will be my biggest challenge, but I do love a good challenge. :-)

                        Cash flow is an issue right this second, though. I did just sell a local website yesterday. I'll be selling more in the next few weeks and will be in touch. I'm just getting going in the local niche, though I do have a monthly client that's been with me since January.

                        Is the price for your training still the same? Please shoot me a PM if anything has changed
                        Hey Joe, I don't want to make this post about me or what I offer, but yes. Still the same.

                        BTW, awesome stuff getting a monthly client on board. What were you charging and offering?

                        Originally Posted by zoro View Post

                        I know you only provided this as an example and guide, and a great example it certainly is.

                        I have personally tried FB Ads for my clients without much success. One of my clients is in the weight loss business and I suggested to them that I could do lead gen for them through FB Ads. Only problem is Facebook rejects every Ad I put up. They have so many reasons for Ad rejection, here are a few: They say Ad can't have image of pretty girl showing slim belly, they say Ad can't have text content that says people can lose weight, they say ad cannot portray anything that implies a person is fat or needs to lose weight, and the list goes on.

                        So my question to you is: Have you had any success in the weight-loss area with FB Ads, and if yes, how did you overcome all their crazy terms obstacles in relation to this market?.
                        You're right. It can be hard. They don't like a lot of images, and they certainly don't like you calling out to your audience about their weight issues. They class it as a form a bullying.

                        They see saying: "Do you have 10kgs to lose" as saying "Hey fatty!"

                        They also don't like ridiculous claims. Such as "How to lose 10kg in 2 weeks".

                        But, what you CAN do is tell stories and case studies. If you're working with a gym or personal trainer I'm sure they would have one closely related to the target.

                        What this means is that we simply have to take our powerful headline and offer, and modify it to fit it within FB's guidelines.

                        So you CAN say:

                        "Mary put on 10 pounds without changing her lifestyle, diet or exercise routine. But... By following this simple 4-step system she lost it all in 4 weeks! And that was all without extreme diets or exercise. Download the report below.

                        Here's what Tania had to say: "I'm finally able to wear the clothes that make me feel sexy again!" "


                        Can you see what I've done? Following their guidelines I've converted the message into one that complies.



                        Originally Posted by DABK View Post

                        Someone mentioned mortgage brokers, so I'll chip in.

                        Mortgage broker fears:
                        New rules/regulations coming up; will it cost me to adjust; do I have anything to do or is just a lot of politician's talking nonsense?

                        Are my processors going to make costly mistakes because of the changes?

                        Is my best processor going to quit?

                        Is the refi side going down?

                        Is X realtor referring me only his crappiest deals?

                        How am I going to pay for the vacation to Florida my wife wants?

                        How the hell is X broker closing 2 times more loans then me? Where is he getting all those clients?

                        How do I make sure x loan officer/top producer doesn't go somewhere else?

                        How do I simplify the process for my borrowers when every day they're adding rules and paperwork that needs to be signed?

                        Sometimes, some of them accept low quality borrowers/deals because they don't have enough leads. But are sure they have to improve their processing. They can't even begin to accept that if they had 3 times the leads, for instance, they'd be able to tell X real estate agent to take a hike because every deal that real estate agent has referred was harder to do than anyone else's deal.
                        Great work DABK.

                        Remember though, we've got to get as deep as possible!

                        So when he says "How the hell is X broker closing 2 times more loans then me? Where is he getting all those clients?"

                        What else is going through his head attached to that? What other emotions?

                        Jealousy, fear, powerlessness?

                        Why does he wonder how the hell is he doing it? What has he tried in the past? What happened with that? How does that effect how he feels?

                        Does he think there's a secret out there he doesn't know?

                        How does this other guy closing more loans affect him?

                        I think you get the point though
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                        • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
                          Originally Posted by s62731 View Post

                          Hey Joe, I don't want to make this post about me or what I offer, but yes. Still the same.

                          BTW, awesome stuff getting a monthly client on board. What were you charging and offering?
                          Hi James,

                          Thanks for letting me know. Honestly, I'm not making much on the monthly client. I "net" around $175-$190.00 per month after everything's paid for on my end. This guy is my very first client, though, and has done business with me in another capacity for over 20 years, so although I always want to make as much as I can, this guy is more like "a friend helping a friend"? Make sense?

                          I also just sold a local website this week for $600.00, but he isn't interested in any SEO, PPC, etc. He just wanted more of an online brochure.

                          Anyhow, I'll be in touch soon.

                          Joe
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                        • Profile picture of the author DABK
                          Here, you have to know if the broker is also a loan officer or not.

                          If he is, the problem is most likely him... He takes pride in doing some kind of thing... wants to be known the guy who can do any loan...

                          It's a matter of the wrong positioning.

                          And he blames the processing department for doing things too slowly... Does not see that the harder the loan, the longer it will take to get it done... if it can be done.

                          That means, he does not see that, though he/she develops the reputation of being able to close crazy deals, he/she also develops the reputation of being slow as hell... Which keeps realtors from referring him their good deals.

                          The thing here is this: he's frustrated and does not assign the right cause and effect (blames the wrong person or the wrong step in the process for the perceived slow down).

                          Perceived, because sometimes there is no slow down... The entire set up is as fast as the set up can be... To get extra speed, you'd need to replace the whole set up...

                          But, most likely, this broker is very afraid of letting go of any possible deal... Does not see that letting some go opens the door to other, better, faster, deals.

                          It might be that his/her outfit brings enough 'deals' to have the same closings as X. That the difference is in the quality of the deals...

                          Or how X handles his... The ones that are not quite there, need to raise their scores to qualify... get another $1000 in the savings account... those are the problems.

                          X, probably, has a person that does a thorough analysis in the beginning, tells those people what they need to do and tells them to come back when they're done doing what needs to be done.

                          Our broker, probably, is in such a hurry that he passes them to a processor... The processor finds out all the problems... tells the loan officer what the problems are... how to fix them... And the loan officer proceeds, and every other day, the loan officer brings another piece of paper to the processor...And the processor looks over the file again... Processors can end up doing on one file enough work to have processed 3 files.

                          So, now you have to figure out, where the process is broken and how to get the mortgage broker to see that changes must be made there.

                          It's easier if you can bring in a few extra loans, guarantee to bring in 20% extra first, then have them hire you to work on fixing the problem... Witht the 20% extra (better) loans, they're going to feel more relaxed.

                          Mostly, they feel trapped, rat race... But unable to see that the Paredo law is at work.

                          Or else, they started in 1996, working as loan officer for a company that did things a certain way, and they're trying to redo that setup... And things have change and that setup doesn't work... Or it was never what they think it was... Faulty memory or faulty understanding.

                          It used to be that a loan officer was merely a sale person, would bring a name and phone number of someone interested and the processing department would take over, get everything else done... The loan officer might need to reassure the client, explain to the client, get a document from the client.

                          Now, with the new rules, it can't be done that way... Still, a lot of them, loan officers that is, would love it that way... Make the same amount of money per file, with half the work.

                          And if you're now a mortgage broker wanting that system, you're thinking you've got more control over things...

                          Because having control is one of the most powerful emotions at play...


                          Originally Posted by s62731 View Post


                          Great work DABK.

                          Remember though, we've got to get as deep as possible!

                          So when he says "How the hell is X broker closing 2 times more loans then me? Where is he getting all those clients?"

                          What else is going through his head attached to that? What other emotions?

                          Jealousy, fear, powerlessness?

                          Why does he wonder how the hell is he doing it? What has he tried in the past? What happened with that? How does that effect how he feels?

                          Does he think there's a secret out there he doesn't know?

                          How does this other guy closing more loans affect him?

                          I think you get the point though
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    • Profile picture of the author rushindo
      Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post


      How would you find the information to create a list of proven pain points for business owners within a specific industry?
      1. Talk to them. See DABK's reply.

      2. Find out where they hang out online and monitor their discussions.
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  • Profile picture of the author zoro
    Thanks for starting this thread. The information you are sharing is invaluable for those of us in the offline marketing space. (:
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  • Profile picture of the author s62731
    Thanks for all the feedback guys. This is such a simple marketing concept that too many of us skip over and neglect. But how are we supposed to resonate with prospects if we don't understand them?

    If you don't have any informations, insights or ideas about your target; one of the best ways to actually get into the head of target customers is to speak to them!

    Interview them, call them, ask them questions. Maybe you actually have someone in your network? A friend could put you in contact with someone?

    Possibly even call them pretending to be doing a college study on the industry. Get creative.

    What I've noticed is that most business owners DO have a lot of the same problems, but they also have a lot of different ones.

    Essentially, there's broad frustrations (not enough time, not enough money, failure, losing status and respect, looking like a fool etc), but then when you dive into an industry and specific business size in that industry, there's much more specific problems.

    A dentist is worried about having his chair empty, and carpet cleaner is worried about having his employees sitting around with only a half day of jobs, a financial planner is worried that his referral network isn't producing the same amount of clients it used too.

    Each industry generally tries different ways to market (and fail in different ways), they have specific goals and units of measurement. They get affected differently when things go wrong.

    ewenmack makes a great point. Just thinking about 3 different types of situations shows you how different the problems they're facing can be.

    And Joe Stewart, good job on going deeper into those industries. But there's always another layer of specificity to be added, as well as "And what does that mean?" type of questioning.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
      Originally Posted by s62731 View Post

      And Joe Stewart, good job on going deeper into those industries. But there's always another layer of specificity to be added, as well as "And what does that mean?" type of questioning.
      Hi,

      Could you please touch on this a bit more?

      Thanks,

      Joe
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  • Profile picture of the author krzysiek
    I don't browse this forum very much and was surprised to see James' new thread!

    I've worked with James for a while now (a student of one of his courses) and this approach he has outlined here is exactly what he taught me.

    It's powerful and it works like crazy.

    Just under 2 weeks ago, I put up a new marketing campaign to attract orthodontists using this very approach.

    The results?

    So far 14 owners of orthodontic practices, all doing over $500,000, have applied to talk with me. Not only have they requested to talk, they have all booked themselves in to my calendar so that I don't need to chase anyone and set a time to talk.

    I haven't gone through all of those red hot leads yet, but I've already got 8 proposals out and 2 more going out tomorrow. That's around 3+ new clients that I'll be signing up to my service, altogether worth around $10,000/m in income.

    That's the power of James' approach!
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    • Profile picture of the author altitudemarketer
      Originally Posted by krzysiek View Post

      I don't browse this forum very much and was surprised to see James' new thread!

      I've worked with James for a while now (a student of one of his courses) and this approach he has outlined here is exactly what he taught me.

      It's powerful and it works like crazy.

      Just under 2 weeks ago, I put up a new marketing campaign to attract orthodontists using this very approach.

      The results?

      So far 14 owners of orthodontic practices, all doing over $500,000, have applied to talk with me. Not only have they requested to talk, they have all booked themselves in to my calendar so that I don't need to chase anyone and set a time to talk.

      I haven't gone through all of those red hot leads yet, but I've already got 8 proposals out and 2 more going out tomorrow. That's around 3+ new clients that I'll be signing up to my service, altogether worth around $10,000/m in income.

      That's the power of James' approach!
      Congrats on the great results... thanks for sharing.
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    • Profile picture of the author animal44
      Originally Posted by krzysiek View Post

      So far 14 owners of orthodontic practices, all doing over $500,000, have applied to talk with me. Not only have they requested to talk, they have all booked themselves in to my calendar so that I don't need to chase anyone and set a time to talk.
      Are there really that many orthodontists lurking on facebook?
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      • Profile picture of the author s62731
        Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

        Are there really that many orthodontists lurking on facebook?
        What, orthodontists aren't allowed to have a Facebook account?

        This is one of those questions that pops up time and time again. 71% of American adults use Facebook. Of course there's going to be some orthodontists in there. That guy that killed cecil the lion had a FB account, he was an orthodontist wasn't he?

        They may be professionals, but they're still real people with friends and family and like to stay connected.

        A mortgage broker recently said something to one of my other studens the other day, and his response makes me laugh.

        Mortgage broker: But people aren't on Facebook looking for a mortgage broker!

        Student: You weren't on Facebook looking for leads, but now you're a lead in my system and we're having a conversation about growing your business. *drops mic*
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        • Profile picture of the author animal44
          Originally Posted by s62731 View Post

          What, orthodontists aren't allowed to have a Facebook account?
          Huh? Who made that claim...?

          Originally Posted by s62731 View Post

          They may be professionals, but they're still real people with friends and family and like to stay connected.
          And why would they read ads when they're on there to connect with friends and family...?

          I study DR advertising. These guys spend a large sum of money sending DM to targeted lists of buyers. Yet they only expect a 1% response.

          Facebook ads can be targeted by demographic, but not by buyer (if I recollect correctly). So we would expect there to be far less than 1% as they're not on facebook to read ads, they're on facebook to connect with family. Even at 1% you'd have 1400 orthodontists reading the ad in two weeks to give such a response...

          Regardless of media, people mostly don't read ads. We tune them out... And never more so than in a social environment.

          A couple of years back I was involved in a test. We had a successful campaign run through newspapers. We invited four SM experts to run the same campaign through SM. The SM experts even had a bonus on offer if they met targets. The result was 1 sale for every 80 sales through newspaper. Isn't that telling...?

          I am sceptical that there are enough orthodondists in Melbourne, or even the whole of Oz, who would read an ad on facebook to give 14 enquiries in two weeks...

          Edit: BTW I like your tutorial...
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          • Profile picture of the author s62731
            Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

            And why would they read ads when they're on there to connect with friends and family...?

            I study DR advertising. These guys spend a large sum of money sending DM to targeted lists of buyers. Yet they only expect a 1% response.

            Facebook ads can be targeted by demographic, but not by buyer (if I recollect correctly). So we would expect there to be far less than 1% as they're not on facebook to read ads, they're on facebook to connect with family. Even at 1% you'd have 1400 orthodontists reading the ad in two weeks to give such a response...

            Regardless of media, people mostly don't read ads. We tune them out... And never more so than in a social environment.

            A couple of years back I was involved in a test. We had a successful campaign run through newspapers. We invited four SM experts to run the same campaign through SM. The SM experts even had a bonus on offer if they met targets. The result was 1 sale for every 80 sales through newspaper. Isn't that telling...?

            I am sceptical that there are enough orthodondists in Melbourne, or even the whole of Oz, who would read an ad on facebook to give 14 enquiries in two weeks...

            Edit: BTW I like your tutorial...
            Why would anyone read any ad?

            Why would someone read an advert in the newspaper when they're just trying to get the news.

            Why would someone pay attention to an ad on TV when they're just trying to be entertained?

            Why would someone click a banner ad?

            I could continue with almost any advertising.

            They click because it gets their attention and talk directly to them and their problems and desires.

            Is Facebook the be all and end all? Definitely not.

            But it is incredible. You and upload direct mailing lists and only advertise to those people. Upload email lists and only advertise to those people.

            Heck I was just looking up what time Zambreros (a Mexican fast food restaurant here in Oz) closed, and then there was a Zambreros ad on my FB feed.

            You have supreme power to get your ads in-front of who your target market is.

            Of course, this is just one of many options. This process will work with direct mail, cold emails etc. But it's about getting your ads in-front of the right people.

            And YES, Facebook is great for this. My clients have sold investment properties using Facebook. I've generated leads of business owners in all sorts of industries. Be it dental, legal, health, finance. Whatever. And the response can be much higher than 1%.

            Sometimes until you've seen something done it may be hard to believe.
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          • Profile picture of the author krzysiek
            I'm not doubting your experience, but you've gotta stop for a moment and realize what you're doing here.

            You're shooting down what I've said based on what? Doubt?

            Here's the thing, while you're doubting all of this, I'm out there doing it.

            When I said I got 14 orthodontists all doing more than $500,000 opting in for a phone call, I didn't make it up.

            What's so hard to believe about that anyway?

            Is getting 14 leads in the space of a week or so really that big of a deal?

            I would have had more than 14 leads if I had spent more, too. My total ad spend was somewhere around $200.

            So while it's okay to be skeptical, you really need to open up a bit more. Because if you don't, you're going to end up selling yourself short.

            This isn't theory. I'm out there doing it. I've done it before. And I have used this same process to close 5 figure a month deals. It works, whether or not you want to believe it does


            Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

            Huh? Who made that claim...?


            And why would they read ads when they're on there to connect with friends and family...?

            I study DR advertising. These guys spend a large sum of money sending DM to targeted lists of buyers. Yet they only expect a 1% response.

            Facebook ads can be targeted by demographic, but not by buyer (if I recollect correctly). So we would expect there to be far less than 1% as they're not on facebook to read ads, they're on facebook to connect with family. Even at 1% you'd have 1400 orthodontists reading the ad in two weeks to give such a response...

            Regardless of media, people mostly don't read ads. We tune them out... And never more so than in a social environment.

            A couple of years back I was involved in a test. We had a successful campaign run through newspapers. We invited four SM experts to run the same campaign through SM. The SM experts even had a bonus on offer if they met targets. The result was 1 sale for every 80 sales through newspaper. Isn't that telling...?

            I am sceptical that there are enough orthodondists in Melbourne, or even the whole of Oz, who would read an ad on facebook to give 14 enquiries in two weeks...

            Edit: BTW I like your tutorial...
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            • Profile picture of the author animal44
              Originally Posted by krzysiek View Post

              You're shooting down what I've said based on what? Doubt?
              Experience. Nearly 40 years in business and some six years selling marketing services to small businesses...

              When you walk in to sell to a client do they accept everything you say without question...?
              Originally Posted by krzysiek View Post

              Here's the thing, while you're doubting all of this, I'm out there doing it.
              So am I... And I make way more than $240,000 pa.
              Originally Posted by krzysiek View Post

              Is getting 14 leads in the space of a week or so really that big of a deal?
              14 orthodontists in two weeks from facebook... yes. As I've previously explained...
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              • Profile picture of the author krzysiek
                For someone with 40 years experience selling marketing services to small businesses, you're honestly one of the last people I would expect to doubt any of this.

                I'm legitimately surprised that you find 14 leads in a week a big deal.

                Anyway, I'm not going to keep this going. At this point I think you get my message and I'm pretty sure I get yours.

                To answer your question, when I am selling to a client, in most cases they do accept everything I say. I almost never get asked to prove anything or to give references.

                By the way, I don't do walks in. All sales are done over the phone and not in person. Clients come to me asking for help and they have to book in a time to talk otherwise nothing happens. The positioning that type of set up brings with it probably helps. This is all stuff that I have learnt from James.

                Best of luck!

                EDIT: Read that wrong, it's 40 years in business with 6 selling marketing service. Nonetheless, the same message still stands.

                Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

                Experience. Nearly 40 years in business and some six years selling marketing services to small businesses...

                When you walk in to sell to a client do they accept everything you say without question...?

                So am I... And I make way more than $240,000 pa.

                14 orthodontists in two weeks from facebook... yes. As I've previously explained...
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  • Profile picture of the author s62731
    Thanks animal44 and krzysiek for the great discussion here. But we're not here to compare the size of our cocks... (Not to offend anyone. You know I love what you do krzysiek ;-) ).

    So to YOU reading this thread right now. What're your thoughts? Can you see how these principals would apply to your business? If so, how? What questions have you got?
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    • Profile picture of the author Peter Lessard
      Originally Posted by s62731 View Post

      So to YOU reading this thread right now. What're your thoughts? Can you see how these principals would apply to your business? If so, how? What questions have you got?
      First off great thread!

      This statement is pure gold and something I go out of my way to do.
      "When you can describe your prospects problem better than they can, they automatically assume you have the solution."

      In regards to actually signing clients, my questions always turn to the details of execution and that is likely part of some course offering or mastermind. Though details change according to your offer and your target market there are always some best practices and lessons learned that can be applied.

      Lets take for example a spend on Facebook to generate leads. $200 could be totally wasted or generate many leads based on exactly how you approached it.

      1. Types of ads and to run? Best targeting options ( example scrape a list of emails for your target market)

      2. Drive to a Facebook page or landing page on your site? as that can affect costs...

      3. Purpose of the landing page? Multi step? Example first get them to opt in to a lead magnet so you can then add them to a funnel, and have a re-direct to a calendar to book an appointment?

      There are so many options... but would be nice to know what is working best for some at the moment.

      The devil is always in the details and sadly what generally happens is this:
      You show someone an awesome concept.
      The concept requires some mechanics (ads, landing page, follow up).
      They screw up the mechanics due to a lack of knowledge of current best practice.
      They dismiss the concept as being flawed when all the time they simply need to tweak the machine.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
      Originally Posted by s62731 View Post

      Thanks animal44 and krzysiek for the great discussion here. But we're not here to compare the size of our cocks... (Not to offend anyone. You know I love what you do krzysiek ;-) ).

      So to YOU reading this thread right now. What're your thoughts? Can you see how these principals would apply to your business? If so, how? What questions have you got?
      Hi James,

      Thanks for your reply in the other post. This is something I'm definitely interested in. I kid you not, I'm ready. I've been working the phone for over two decades, done door-to-door and ran my own businesses since mid-2000. I just can't seem to get over the hump.

      The method of building a customer profile looks a lot like what Andre Chaperon does in his "Tiny Little Businesses" course. He says the same thing about getting out and talking to people, etc. He actually used Justin Brooke as an example for a weight loss niche. This part will be my biggest challenge, but I do love a good challenge. :-)

      Cash flow is an issue right this second, though. I did just sell a local website yesterday. I'll be selling more in the next few weeks and will be in touch. I'm just getting going in the local niche, though I do have a monthly client that's been with me since January.

      Is the price for your training still the same? Please shoot me a PM if anything has changed.

      Thanks,

      Joe
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      • Profile picture of the author jamesfreddyc
        Sorry to jump in but I think this is quite relevant to the op...

        Hey krzysiek, what is an acceptable clickthru rate for your orthodontic target market?

        Tot # clicks to your lander page / tot # ad impressions = click thru rate

        I'm curious about specific numbers to compare my own FB campaigns in that demographic.

        Thanks!
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        • Profile picture of the author krzysiek
          Hey James,

          I will send you a PM now, don't want to derail this thread!

          Originally Posted by jamesfreddyc View Post

          Sorry to jump in but I think this is quite relevant to the op...

          Hey krzysiek, what is an acceptable clickthru rate for your orthodontic target market?

          Tot # clicks to your lander page / tot # ad impressions = click thru rate

          I'm curious about specific numbers to compare my own FB campaigns in that demographic.

          Thanks!
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          • Profile picture of the author jamesfreddyc
            Originally Posted by krzysiek View Post

            Hey James,

            I will send you a PM now, don't want to derail this thread!
            Yep. Thank you for the note.
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    • Profile picture of the author bigdawg69
      Originally Posted by s62731 View Post

      So to YOU reading this thread right now. What're your thoughts? Can you see how these principals would apply to your business? If so, how? What questions have you got?
      Do you have your clients provide the material for your email opt-in give away or do you make it yourself?
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  • Profile picture of the author oasisresults
    Great threads man...

    Question:

    How do you handle the email accounts-

    Do you run your funnel from something like:

    name@clientswebsite.com
    clientsBizName@yourwebsite.com

    or something random?

    This is the only part of your system I'm confused about and would love a response, thanks!
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