I Went From 0 to 25k a Month in 2 Years-Heres 7 Things that Would Have Got Me There in Half the Time

by TCFKen
60 replies
Since starting my business a couple of years ago I've been checking in on this forum sporadically, mostly to see how people are doing and catch up. I've known a few of you for a while now through various business groups and masterminds but most members here probably won't know much about me.

I wanted to write this post for the members who are running an offline agency, consulting business or services business and are looking to grow, or perhaps just starting out and looking for direction when getting it off the ground.

I've been involved in the consulting/agency world for a few years now and throughout the course of scaling my business to a very nice income I've had a TON of ups and downs. As I mentioned in the post title, I've scaled my business successfully to a pretty good place but looking back I made a ton of mistakes.

There are a few things in particular that really stand out. Things I wish I would have done sooner, things I wish I would have never done and some general mindset and wisdom that had I known would have gotten me much further, much faster.

I decided to put together the 7 key factors that you can implement in your business immediately to see much faster results and hopefully scale your business much faster than I did. I know for certain had I implemented these key points earlier I would have saved myself a ton of headaches and made a lot more money. Live and learn.


Like most of us when starting out I struggled hard. I couldn't get clients and the ones I could get didn't want to pay. I couldn't sell high end services (or so I thought) and I was forced to take on bottom of the barrel clients.

I wasted most of my time doing stuff that didn't work, convincing myself that a big breakthrough was coming. It did come, just not in the way I thought it would.

To paint the picture, I was selling one off projects with very poor positioning. I started out as a generalized web agency... maybe the toughest business to start because of how much competition there is. I really thought I would provide a great service and clients would come flooding in. I thought I just needed a handful of clients and everything would change. I thought I'd get endless referrals and the sales would take care of themselves.

Selling websites at a low rate is a race to the bottom, you'll not only make very little money, you're going to pull your hair out in frustration while doing it. The problem is, every month you're starting back at ZERO. Even if you love the idea of design and coding, small businesses typically want the same thing.

There isn't much room for creativity. My goal was to make a ton of money and I quickly realised selling websites for $500 a pop wasn't going to get me there.

I see a lot of advice on here about getting money this week, cold dialing for dollars and I wonder, how many people are here to simply get by vs. create a legitimate business and make very good money?

Understand this business can be an absolute nightmare, or it can be fun and very profitable. The difference between the 2 really isn't even that big. It's the subtle details that will make your business enjoyable and make you money vs. wanting to quit while struggling to pay your rent.

If you want to just get by, you can sell one off websites make a little money and essentially create a job for yourself. If you want to make legitimate money you need to have specific business skills and outline what it is your company does that's different from every other general consulting or services business out there.

Over time I've figured out these metrics for my business. I looked at what essentially makes the most profit with the least amount of headaches and what clients I want to work with. Over the course of a couple years I went from 0 to 25k per month (and we'll move beyond that much faster, by the end of January we'll probably do around 30k).



These are the 7 Things I would have done differently to reach that point in half the time.


1) Do Not Undervalue or Undersell Your Services
I look at low pricing as the ultimate race to the bottom. I'm not just talking about being the lowest priced in the market, but just having a low price in general. It's no secret that most businesses don't want to pay top dollar, this means you have to find client's that value your services and understand the return you can get for them.

I honestly view consultants selling services for a couple hundred a month as CRAZY. This may work now when starting out but it's extremely difficult to scale a business and keep good profit margins with pricing that low. I can get into business infrastructure and hiring in another post but I'll keep this one very simple.

Not only do you make little money but these clients are the worst to deal with and rarely work out well. If you're starting out and need money, this is fine but don't let it stick long term or you will be in trouble.

This begs the question, how much should I charge and what can I sell for that amount? We don't sell anything for below $1,000 a month and even that is on the low end. This includes basic online marketing services but we've positioned ourselves so strongly in our niche market (read point #2) that we've got a great shot at landing every proposal we put out.

The services we sell are no different than what everyone else is selling, it's our brand, marketing and positioning (and a very refined sales process) that allows us to charge more.



2) Do NOT Generalize, Find a Niche and Attack It Hard
Generalized web agencies may be the most competitive businesses to start. Especially if you don't bring any true value to the table. People think that telling business owners lines like "We know how to setup websites that bring in more customers" will make you stand out and justify 10k for a basic wordpress design. It won't. Maybe it worked in 2008, but those days are long gone.

You need to be extremely transparent in your marketing in 2016. Everything we do is focused around targeting our ideal clients within our market and from there positioning ourselves as strongly as possible to have a conversation, get out a proposal and land a new client.

Choosing a market isn't tough. If you're providing online services for example, find a market that needs your help. Look for markets that have a lot of search volume and become the authority in that marketplace. If you know there's a ton of searches for Kitchen Cabinets and you see cabinet companies using adwords, there's HUGE market potential for you right there. Is there 5 other marketing companies targeting this niche? Probably not. This is a prime example, now you just have to move all in with it.

This also means you're not limited to your town or city to sell services. 90% of our clients I've never met, many of them aren't even in the same country. Yes, I'm serious. Sales becomes much easier when you're marketing does most of the selling for you.

How can you position yourself in your market? Write books on marketing within your niche. Write for magazines and publications within your niche (this has brought us a ton of leads and we get paid to write the articles). Join an association and give talks to the group. Put out great informational content on a niche website and send it out to your ideal clients. I took a method Nathan (not sure if he still posts here) provides and tweaked it for our business, it turned out to be one of the best ROI activities we've ever done.

It takes time but you'll gain traction 5x faster than marketing yourself as another generalized web agency. You can even still run a generalized agency for any niche, you should always be open to accepting new opportunities in any market, but focus your marketing on what's going to bring the fastest results. This is our version of the 80/20 rule.



3) Find the Marketing Sources that Work, and Go All In
I've tried everything. I'm not joking. If there's a tactic I've tried it. I'll be honest, almost everything works. The question isn't whether something works or not. I know people who made sales standing in the pharmacy and striking up a conversation. Does the mean you should hang out at Walgreens all day?

The question you need to ask is what's going to bring me the best return on my investment and time. What are the 3 marketing activities I need to master to really have a business that systematically brings me new leads and clients every month

I was just interviewed on a couple podcasts about what marketing sources we use and I mentioned there's typically about 2 to 3 things per month that bring in 95% of our results. We've tweaked these methods over time and now I even give this information away for free. It's about thinking taking a method you know can be scaled (ex: Direct Mail, Email, Content Writing, Speaking gigs etc.) and focusing that attention on your target niche audience.

Finally, don't buy into "only focus on inbound marketing" B.S. I have a real problem with this. Yes, inbound is great but it's not the end all be all of marketing, outbound is still very much alive and well. I'm getting cold emails from sales people at hubspot and inbound.org every week - what does that tell you about only using "inbound marketing" to grow your business?



4) Know Your Business and Service Offerings - This is VITAL
I could write on this point for a while, it was a HUGE sticking point for me. In any services business there's a million directions you can go. For example if you're selling marketing services there's Web Design, Content marketing, social media, search management, CRO...

At the end of the day you have to offer services that fit your ideal business model, infrastructure and how you want the business to look.

I know what the profit margins of what most agencies look like. They aren't impressive. This stuff is rarely talked about because people only want to brag about big numbers like revenue. At the end of the day the only thing that matters is how much you put in your bank account.

In our business we do the same net profit (what I put in my bank account) as companies that have nearly 3x our revenue. You read that right. We're making the same amount as companies doing nearly 70k a month.. how is that possible? It comes down to the infrastructure of the business.

I know a woman who has a staff of 10, a fancy office and runs the biggest content marketing agency in our city. It looks great from the outside but she has a ton of people on payroll and managing those projects isn't easy. Her income isn't huge and she may even be fine with that.

I'll be the first to admit money isn't everything in business, if you enjoy what you're doing and making a good living it's hard to beat that. At the end of the day you have to ask yourself, what do you want? This is a topic I write a lot about because it's much more complicated than most make it out to be but probably more important than any other business topic.

Make sure you have a clearly defined direction you want to take your business.



5) Work with Ideal Clients
We talked about clients in our ideal market but there's also clients in that market that won't be a good fit.

Ideally you want to find clients that have money. For us we look for companies that are doing 1 million or more in sales and believe in marketing, ideally online marketing. Revenue isn't always the best indicator of how things are going, some owners are horrendous at managing cashflow but it's one of the main metrics we look at.

It can be difficult to find specific sales numbers on businesses so always try to look for assets. Do they have trucks? Do they have a large office? Large staff? Are they marketing or using your services in some way already? These are all great indicators of ideal clients.

We recently put together a list of the ideal markets to sell online services to and almost all of them had some type of residential service relationship. Remodelers, roofers, plumbers are always looking for their next sale and customer. Customers are looking for their services, this provides a great opportunity for you.

Major industrial/commercial products and services are almost always a losing situation. In fact, I've had a handful of people tell me to focus on markets such as heavy construction sales, industrial HVAC, mechanical equipment because it equals massive dollar amounts. Not only was it terrible advice, every single one of those people are now out of business.

Yes I followed up with them.

Be careful who you take advice from and make sure they've actually grown a legitimate business before hearing what they have to say.



6) Wake Up Every Day Hungry & Ready to Get It... The Importance of the Compound Effect
These last 2 points are going to be mindset related. People talk about mindset as wishy washy or woo-woo but for me it's been the biggest contributing factor to the growth of my business.

You should view your business as a fast paced marathon. You need to wake up every day ready to hustle and grind and most importantly do the individual tasks that will push your business forward.

I set daily tasks, weekly goals and monthly goals that I keep track of religiously. My goal is to hit these daily tasks and numbers by any means necessary. Hitting my marketing numbers is what will push my business forward. View your time as the most valuable asset you have and take advantage of it every second of the day. No one's ever got rich checking their email more often.

On top of this you have to understand the importance of the compound effect. In fact, I recommend reading the book by Darren Hardy, it's helped me a lot. Essentially, all of the marketing you're doing is building each week and month. You're building it up to a point where the results you get add up more and more and compound over time. If you're consistently hitting your numbers for months at a time you can't help but be successful.

Working in short bursts to "get money this week" is a race to the bottom... once again if you're in that situation then work through it and do what you need to do but your end goal is to look at business as a marathon and make sure you need to get things done every day long term.



7) Learn to Love the Process & Day to Day Tasks
I don't hear this talked about often but it will make you enjoy your business more and will definitely speed up the results you get. You have to learn to love the day to day tasks, even if they aren't fun. There's a lot of *stuff* in business that isn't fun. Your dream job and "following your passion" is going to require doing a lot of stuff that isn't fun. Just do it anyway and don't complain.

I've had to rewire my mindset and actions so I enjoy doing menial, boring tasks and in the end I actually end up enjoying them. I don't mind doing stuff most people hate like cold calling, packaging up marketing or talking with clients. It's not always ideal but you get much more satisfaction from the discipline of doing it, than you do from putting it off for something that's "fun".

In my business, sales don't really make me ecstatic. It sounds weird but it's the truth. I've taught myself to love the process and to only feel satisfied if I got the things done that needed to get finished that day. In turn you end up bringing in more sales because you're actually doing the things that push your business forward.

Whether we had 5 sales appointments fall through in a week or we brought on 3 high ticket clients this week; these situations don't affect my mood as much as you would think. The most important part of the business is the process. Good stuff is going to happen, bad stuff is DEFINITELY going to happen. The only thing that matters is that you keep grinding because at the end of the day the real results will come from the long term compound effect of you showing up every day and working relentlessly.

It's also important to note you shouldn't just push yourself through tough times but through great times as well. Some of the most difficult times to discipline yourself are when things are going extremely well, you start feeling like you deserve time off or that you can afford a break. Don't fall into this trap. Those of you who have built a successful business and made money will know exactly what I mean. I think we've all fallen victim to this one after a few good weeks or months.


That's it! A bit of a long read I know.. maybe someone can put the cliff notes version somewhere in this thread

These are the 7 elements that took me to over 25k a month in my business, and a very long time to learn. I'm sure not all of them will resonate with you but most of them should. I really feel like anyone can do it but as I mentioned before there's a very fine line between having a nightmare business where you make little money and having a business you enjoy working on everyday making great money.

Running a consulting and services business is one of the best ways to create a 6 figure business. It can be extremely profitable and rewarding but it really has to be done correctly.

I wish I had this advice when starting out, a lot of the information I got was terrible and really held me back. Put this stuff into practice immediately.

I really hope you guys got some value from this and if you have any questions feel free to post them below.
#25k #half #month #things #time #yearsheres
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  • Profile picture of the author Oziboomer
    Originally Posted by TCFKen View Post

    .....Over time I've figured out these metrics for my business. I looked at what essentially makes the most profit with the least amount of headaches and what clients I want to work with.....

    I really hope you guys got some value from this and if you have any questions feel free to post them below.
    Thanks Ken.

    I think the 8th thing that should be added and you allude to in the pre-amble is understanding your metrics.

    Having a management mindset in place and setting up a system to measure what is giving you the best results and focussing on improving those areas whilst minimising and eliminating the non-profitable areas is vital to success.

    Apart from all the great advice you give and having a system to measure and improve your results as I mention above one additional thing that many fail to recognise is....

    ...to focus on income producing activities.

    Merry Christmas and best wishes on your next stage of growth.

    Ozi.
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    • Profile picture of the author TCFKen
      Originally Posted by Oziboomer View Post

      Thanks Ken.

      I think the 8th thing that should be added and you allude to in the pre-amble is understanding your metrics.

      Having a management mindset in place and setting up a system to measure what is giving you the best results and focussing on improving those areas whilst minimising and eliminating the non-profitable areas is vital to success.

      Apart from all the great advice you give and having a system to measure and improve your results as I mention above one additional thing that many fail to recognise is....

      ...to focus on income producing activities.

      Merry Christmas and best wishes on your next stage of growth.

      Ozi.
      Absolutely. I could go into a ton of depth on that, it ties into the some of the mindset and compound effect items I mentioned. I wanted this to be more of an overview post so I'll probably put something together on that topic in the near future.
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    • Profile picture of the author longrobnc
      Originally Posted by Oziboomer View Post

      ...to focus on income producing activities.
      Ozi.
      This was the break through for me, and the mistake I see most other small business owners make. I spent a lot of time doing busy work. There are things that eat up your day and produce nothing. You can feel like you got some things done, but did any of those activities make you any money?

      I don't answer personal calls or emails during business hours( unless emergencies), I don't clean house, cut grass, grocery shop, clean my office, laundry, dry cleaning etc. I just stopped doing most everything that has no profit in it. These were all eating up my day. If it's below my pay grade then I find someone else to complete those task. It worked wonders.
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  • Profile picture of the author Clautusoar
    Good stuff really good stuff, i almost died when you mentioned "standing outside of Walgreens all day".

    I think hunger can develop when your in the process of something, then move into the flow of doing the process. For instance i hate cold calling, but yesterday, i was stressing out beginning, and i eventually end up calling, after hours go by, i got into a hunger state, like a machine, i couldn't stop calling.

    The toughest part is starting the process, the rest will be alot easier.
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    • Profile picture of the author TCFKen
      Originally Posted by Clautusoar View Post

      Good stuff really good stuff, i almost died when you mentioned "standing outside of Walgreens all day".

      I think hunger can develop when your in the process of something, then move into the flow of doing the process. For instance i hate cold calling, but yesterday, i was stressing out beginning, and i eventually end up calling, after hours go by, i got into a hunger state, like a machine, i couldn't stop calling.

      The toughest part is starting the process, the rest will be alot easier.
      Absolutely, you CANNOT resist the day to day activities that must be done to push your business forward. It's very easy put off sales for something that's more fun or creative. Leave that for the broke people.

      If you overcome the initial resistance, like you said, the process sort of takes over and you build off the momentum. Even if the first initial calls don't go well.. you're just going through the process.

      There's a very good book on this topic that covers resistance, overcoming it and the dangers of it - it's called the War of Art by Steven Pressfield. It's also nice to know that people in business aren't the only ones experiencing it. He references a lot of careers including writers, artists, musicians and entrepreneurs.
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      • Profile picture of the author Clautusoar
        Originally Posted by TCFKen View Post

        Absolutely, you CANNOT resist the day to day activities that must be done to push your business forward. It's very easy put off sales for something that's more fun or creative. Leave that for the broke people.

        If you overcome the initial resistance, like you said, the process sort of takes over and you build off the momentum. Even if the first initial calls don't go well.. you're just going through the process.

        There's a very good book on this topic that covers resistance, overcoming it and the dangers of it - it's called the War of Art by Steven Pressfield. It's also nice to know that people in business aren't the only ones experiencing it. He references a lot of careers including writers, artists, musicians and entrepreneurs.
        I don't know if you covered this, but i know you mentioned specialize in a niche, but what if you havent had a sale yet, and your just starting out an seo agency, should you still target 10k+ clients, if so where is the best place to find these type of clients.

        I just go on manta.com and call hvac companies
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        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
          Originally Posted by Clautusoar View Post

          I don't know if you covered this, but i know you mentioned specialize in a niche, but what if you havent had a sale yet, and your just starting out an seo agency, should you still target 10k+ clients, if so where is the best place to find these type of clients.

          I just go on manta.com and call hvac companies
          I know you didn't ask me... but here is what I suggest time and again to guys / gals just starting out. Do it on your own dime. In other words in this scenario, I would really suggest a Amazon affiliate site for HVAC Air filters. Prove to yourself, and have proof to your potential clients down the road that you have the knowledge and understanding online to move product.

          And I know you are sitting there thinking... "I don't want to sell product I want to sell leads." ok then, YOU - YOUR business should have a site that is doing just that. Again.. Use the site to create leads for YOUR business.

          Right now, even if you are not saying it, but I bet you probably are... The tonality and the way you are speaking is probably saying just as you have in your post... Hi, Im new at this and have no references or examples of my work.. but I want your 10K a months worth of business.

          The reality here... I am not going to say it couldn't happen.. but the odds are so stacked against you right now its not even funny.

          Creating those 2 simple sites for yourself. Spending your money and your time will be priceless on many levels. The tonality and the language you will speak to potential clients will shift from one of "Hi, I just need a chance" to "This is what I do, and here is where I have done it." The greatest value in this exercise is the knowledge of HOW to properly do SEO that we would hope actually gets results and is putting money in your pocket.

          "Furnace Filters" is not a knock over term, but a term such as "Bulk Furnace Filters" would be, with the right content behind it. With the price point of this "Niche" I could see it being not so impossible to obtain $1000 a month stream of cash as a Amazon Affiliate.
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          • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
            Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

            I know you didn't ask me... but here is what I suggest time and again to guys / gals just starting out. Do it on your own dime. In other words in this scenario, I would really suggest a Amazon affiliate site for HVAC Air filters. Prove to yourself, and have proof to your potential clients down the road that you have the knowledge and understanding online to move product.

            And I know you are sitting there thinking... "I don't want to sell product I want to sell leads." ok then, YOU - YOUR business should have a site that is doing just that. Again.. Use the site to create leads for YOUR business.

            Right now, even if you are not saying it, but I bet you probably are... The tonality and the way you are speaking is probably saying just as you have in your post... Hi, Im new at this and have no references or examples of my work.. but I want your 10K a months worth of business.

            The reality here... I am not going to say it couldn't happen.. but the odds are so stacked against you right now its not even funny.

            Creating those 2 simple sites for yourself. Spending your money and your time will be priceless on many levels. The tonality and the language you will speak to potential clients will shift from one of "Hi, I just need a chance" to "This is what I do, and here is where I have done it." The greatest value in this exercise is the knowledge of HOW to properly do SEO that we would hope actually gets results and is putting money in your pocket.

            "Furnace Filters" is not a knock over term, but a term such as "Bulk Furnace Filters" would be, with the right content behind it. With the price point of this "Niche" I could see it being not so impossible to obtain $1000 a month stream of cash as a Amazon Affiliate.

            I respectfully disagree. I don't have a website in the niche I've been targeting and started doing this about a year ago part time. I've also sold supplies and equipment in a niche industry for over 20 years without a website.

            There are some people who'll want to see a portfolio of examples of your work and there are others that won't. Move on until you have the proof they desire and come back to them later, if necessary, but don't allow them or anyone else to get in your head and make you think that because "they" want proof that everyone will.

            As in all sales, you're selling yourself first while you focus on their problem or pain point. Be honest with prospects, play the numbers and find people that you can truly help and that you WANT to work with. You'll eventually find people who aren't too difficult and could use more leads.

            I'd just tell them that "I have a vested interest in your success. You see, if you don't get a return from my efforts, you'll stop paying me."

            If someone is picking you apart on every detail and isn't pleasant or at least civil to work with, do you really want to talk to them on a regular basis? Not me, man!

            Of course, it doesn't mean that you can't show prospects work that you've already done. That will be great when you have it available. I'm just saying that I wouldn't allow that or any other obstacles to keep me from getting started.

            Also, if you're just getting started and are running into resistance because you have no previous work to share with them, there are other options you can use.

            First, show them competitor sites and say "these are some of the color themes and designs that we've found to be clean and effective." You never said that you've built those sites. You simply showed them examples of what you "can do".

            Find sites that are paying for Adwords and ranking near the top for popular keywords. That means that they'll have received the most clicks because of their ads. It also means that they're PAYING for those ads and people don't normally continue to pay for things that aren't profitable, right?

            Another way is to just play the numbers by cold calling and give 2-3 people a good deal on their sites so you'll have those examples you can show bigger clients later on. There's your portfolio!

            My point is that you're saying a person would need to have proof of their work before they can even get started and I completely disagree. As long as the seller has enough knowledge to provide the desired outcome, whether it's by doing it themselves with SEO, PPC or another method, OR simply outsourcing the entire thing, the end result is all that matters, right?

            Anyhow, I got distracted in the middle of typing this and got off track for a moment. I hope that all makes sense.

            Bottom line: Don't let anything get in your head that will keep you from chasing your dreams!!!
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            • Profile picture of the author StarkContrast
              I guess the simple argument can be made is this: if you can't rank terms for the niche you specialize in (i.e., seo agency in Franklin Tennessee),why would someone hire you to rank for their terms?

              Another alternative is one I've seen on here a few times ($240K Freedom Formula comes to mind) and that is to get that potential client to want YOU to call them. In that way you are generating them as a lead and that lends itself to proving your mettle in this business. It sells itself.

              I think what savidge4 has said here is sage advice. Getting something ranking and earning money first is important. Otherwise, why should they hire you? Would you hire someone who says "I have a vested interest in seeing you succeed" when they haven't yet succeeded at all?

              Two+ sites in your portfolio will beat no sites in your portfolio any day of the week.
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              • Profile picture of the author Clautusoar
                Originally Posted by StarkContrast View Post

                I guess the simple argument can be made is this: if you can't rank terms for the niche you specialize in (i.e., seo agency in Franklin Tennessee),why would someone hire you to rank for their terms?

                Another alternative is one I've seen on here a few times ($240K Freedom Formula comes to mind) and that is to get that potential client to want YOU to call them. In that way you are generating them as a lead and that lends itself to proving your mettle in this business. It sells itself.

                I think what savidge4 has said here is sage advice. Getting something ranking and earning money first is important. Otherwise, why should they hire you? Would you hire someone who says "I have a vested interest in seeing you succeed" when they haven't yet succeeded at all?

                Two+ sites in your portfolio will beat no sites in your portfolio any day of the week.
                That's like somebody telling me why buy a guitar, if you don't know how to play it.
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                • Profile picture of the author StarkContrast
                  Originally Posted by Clautusoar View Post

                  That's like somebody telling me why buy a guitar, if you don't know how to play it.
                  Perhaps it's closer to "you want to teach me to play the guitar and you have never played it successfully yourself?"
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              • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
                Originally Posted by StarkContrast View Post

                I guess the simple argument can be made is this: if you can't rank terms for the niche you specialize in (i.e., seo agency in Franklin Tennessee),why would someone hire you to rank for their terms?

                Another alternative is one I've seen on here a few times ($240K Freedom Formula comes to mind) and that is to get that potential client to want YOU to call them. In that way you are generating them as a lead and that lends itself to proving your mettle in this business. It sells itself.

                I think what savidge4 has said here is sage advice. Getting something ranking and earning money first is important. Otherwise, why should they hire you? Would you hire someone who says "I have a vested interest in seeing you succeed" when they haven't yet succeeded at all?

                Two+ sites in your portfolio will beat no sites in your portfolio any day of the week.

                Once again, this is your take on it. That doesn't make it a reason for someone to not start working. Would it be nice if people call you? Absolutely! But I'm not one to sit around and wait.

                Anyone with basic SEO experience could go and rank a site for basic keywords that get little or no traffic. I do agree that a niche should be researched locally to make sure they can come through with page one rankings for decent keywords within a reasonable amount of time, or at least be able to get leads using Adwords or other methods, but that doesn't mean they can't do it.

                Besides, just trying to rank for broad keywords doesn't always get the best results. Of course, this depends on the niche, the location, etc. I'm talking about ranking businesses for "buyer" keywords.

                Things like these: (Note: This is only an example. I did not do research on these keyword phrases.)

                Hotel cost Franklin, TN
                Hotel cost Franklin, Tennessee

                Carpet Cleaning cost Franklin, Tennessee
                Carpet Cleaning cost Franklin, TN

                Carpet Cleaning consultation Franklin, Tennessee
                Carpet Cleaning consultation Franklin, TN

                Carpet Cleaning price Franklin, Tennessee
                Carpet Cleaning price Franklin, TN

                Carpet Cleaning estimate Franklin, Tennessee
                Carpet Cleaning estimate Franklin, TN

                Carpet Cleaning quote Franklin, Tennessee
                Carpet Cleaning quote Franklin, TN

                Emergency Carpet Cleaning Franklin, Tennessee
                Emergency Carpet Cleaning Franklin, TN

                Those are just a few of the terms that should/could be targeted. Of course, using both singular and plural versions of the buyer keyword(s) in the titles is helpful. Example, "quote" and "quotes", "price" and "prices".

                My point is that it's not hard if you know basic SEO. Also, there are those that own PBN networks who'll rank sites for people that bring them clients and split the monthly profits 50/50. You just have to know how to find them.

                Also, you can set up an Adwords campaign and bring in leads if the SEO competition is fierce. I have a situation like that. The top 3-4 sites are entrenched and have a ton of links, some that are good. I tested the PPC costs vs what the Google Keyword Planner said they were and it's not nearly expensive, so we went that direction. I still have his site ranked for several terms in the natural listings, but he's getting a steady flow of calls from the PPC campaign.

                I could go on but my main point is that if there's a will, there's a way. It's all about mindset. I know other people that do this that say to get the client first and depending on the client, then determine the best course of action. That could be building a long term solid foundation, using PBNs to get faster results, using PPC to get fast results that are measurable or a combination of both.

                I understand what you guys are saying, but you're making it sound like you have to have some kind of degree to be able to do this and that's simply not true. Find someone that can either fulfill the commitment or teach you how to do it, and get to work.

                That being said, having targeted or even pre-sold leads coming in would be fantastic. The part about publishing articles on other peoples sites and getting paid for it is very intriguing. I just remembered picking up a copy of "The Writer's Market" a few months ago. I need to look at that again.

                Anyhow, I don't want/didn't intend to get off track from the OP's post. It's excellent information. Especially the part about "mindset". :-)
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                • Profile picture of the author Clautusoar
                  Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

                  Once again, this is your take on it. That doesn't make it a reason for someone to not start working. Would it be nice if people call you? Absolutely! But I'm not one to sit around and wait.

                  Anyone with basic SEO experience could go and rank a site for basic keywords that get little or no traffic. I do agree that a niche should be researched locally to make sure they can come through with page one rankings for decent keywords within a reasonable amount of time, or at least be able to get leads using Adwords or other methods, but that doesn't mean they can't do it.

                  Besides, just trying to rank for broad keywords doesn't always get the best results. Of course, this depends on the niche, the location, etc. I'm talking about ranking businesses for "buyer" keywords.

                  Things like these: (Note: This is only an example. I did not do research on these keyword phrases.)

                  Hotel cost Franklin, TN
                  Hotel cost Franklin, Tennessee

                  Carpet Cleaning cost Franklin, Tennessee
                  Carpet Cleaning cost Franklin, TN

                  Carpet Cleaning consultation Franklin, Tennessee
                  Carpet Cleaning consultation Franklin, TN

                  Carpet Cleaning price Franklin, Tennessee
                  Carpet Cleaning price Franklin, TN

                  Carpet Cleaning estimate Franklin, Tennessee
                  Carpet Cleaning estimate Franklin, TN

                  Carpet Cleaning quote Franklin, Tennessee
                  Carpet Cleaning quote Franklin, TN

                  Emergency Carpet Cleaning Franklin, Tennessee
                  Emergency Carpet Cleaning Franklin, TN

                  Those are just a few of the terms that should/could be targeted. Of course, using both singular and plural versions of the buyer keyword(s) in the titles is helpful. Example, "quote" and "quotes", "price" and "prices".

                  My point is that it's not hard if you know basic SEO. Also, there are those that own PBN networks who'll rank sites for people that bring them clients and split the monthly profits 50/50. You just have to know how to find them.

                  Also, you can set up an Adwords campaign and bring in leads if the SEO competition is fierce. I have a situation like that. The top 3-4 sites are entrenched and have a ton of links, some that are good. I tested the PPC costs vs what the Google Keyword Planner said they were and it's not nearly expensive, so we went that direction. I still have his site ranked for several terms in the natural listings, but he's getting a steady flow of calls from the PPC campaign.

                  I could go on but my main point is that if there's a will, there's a way. It's all about mindset. I know other people that do this that say to get the client first and depending on the client, then determine the best course of action. That could be building a long term solid foundation, using PBNs to get faster results, using PPC to get fast results that are measurable or a combination of both.

                  I understand what you guys are saying, but you're making it sound like you have to have some kind of degree to be able to do this and that's simply not true. Find someone that can either fulfill the commitment or teach you how to do it, and get to work.

                  That being said, having targeted or even pre-sold leads coming in would be fantastic. The part about publishing articles on other peoples sites and getting paid for it is very intriguing. I just remembered picking up a copy of "The Writer's Market" a few months ago. I need to look at that again.

                  Anyhow, I don't want/didn't intend to get off track from the OP's post. It's excellent information. Especially the part about "mindset". :-)
                  Amen, praise god
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                • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                  Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

                  Once again, this is your take on it. That doesn't make it a reason for someone to not start working. Would it be nice if people call you? Absolutely! But I'm not one to sit around and wait.

                  Anyone with basic SEO experience could go and rank a site for basic keywords that get little or no traffic. I do agree that a niche should be researched locally to make sure they can come through with page one rankings for decent keywords within a reasonable amount of time, or at least be able to get leads using Adwords or other methods, but that doesn't mean they can't do it.

                  Besides, just trying to rank for broad keywords doesn't always get the best results. Of course, this depends on the niche, the location, etc. I'm talking about ranking businesses for "buyer" keywords.

                  Things like these: (Note: This is only an example. I did not do research on these keyword phrases.)

                  Hotel cost Franklin, TN
                  Hotel cost Franklin, Tennessee

                  Carpet Cleaning cost Franklin, Tennessee
                  Carpet Cleaning cost Franklin, TN

                  Carpet Cleaning consultation Franklin, Tennessee
                  Carpet Cleaning consultation Franklin, TN

                  Carpet Cleaning price Franklin, Tennessee
                  Carpet Cleaning price Franklin, TN

                  Carpet Cleaning estimate Franklin, Tennessee
                  Carpet Cleaning estimate Franklin, TN

                  Carpet Cleaning quote Franklin, Tennessee
                  Carpet Cleaning quote Franklin, TN

                  Emergency Carpet Cleaning Franklin, Tennessee
                  Emergency Carpet Cleaning Franklin, TN

                  Those are just a few of the terms that should/could be targeted. Of course, using both singular and plural versions of the buyer keyword(s) in the titles is helpful. Example, "quote" and "quotes", "price" and "prices".

                  My point is that it's not hard if you know basic SEO. Also, there are those that own PBN networks who'll rank sites for people that bring them clients and split the monthly profits 50/50. You just have to know how to find them.

                  Also, you can set up an Adwords campaign and bring in leads if the SEO competition is fierce. I have a situation like that. The top 3-4 sites are entrenched and have a ton of links, some that are good. I tested the PPC costs vs what the Google Keyword Planner said they were and it's not nearly expensive, so we went that direction. I still have his site ranked for several terms in the natural listings, but he's getting a steady flow of calls from the PPC campaign.

                  I could go on but my main point is that if there's a will, there's a way. It's all about mindset. I know other people that do this that say to get the client first and depending on the client, then determine the best course of action. That could be building a long term solid foundation, using PBNs to get faster results, using PPC to get fast results that are measurable or a combination of both.

                  I understand what you guys are saying, but you're making it sound like you have to have some kind of degree to be able to do this and that's simply not true. Find someone that can either fulfill the commitment or teach you how to do it, and get to work.

                  That being said, having targeted or even pre-sold leads coming in would be fantastic. The part about publishing articles on other peoples sites and getting paid for it is very intriguing. I just remembered picking up a copy of "The Writer's Market" a few months ago. I need to look at that again.

                  Anyhow, I don't want/didn't intend to get off track from the OP's post. It's excellent information. Especially the part about "mindset". :-)
                  I hate to jack the thread like this... but this is complete and utter non sense - Sorry.. It was running down hill and then you had to mention PBN? they are the fastest way to get rank? I don't use PBN's and get rank in D A Y S... it would take M O N T H S and $1000's of dollars just to develop a decent PBN.. and then you have to worry about a missed step and a G update wiping the whole thing clean... STUPID advice.

                  We are talking local SEO here... where is there mention of Citations, G and B business listings, local based back linking?

                  Is it hard.. the answer is NO... but here is the thing... If you are sending out the fulfillment and you don't know what has to be done... well what HAS to be done wont get done. Because outsourcing fulfillment is only as good as the directions you give the fulfillment team.

                  Then find someone that can teach you... Im all in on this one.. BUT, im only all in when its a self owned site. there is a fine line between education and Consultation and I personally charge to Consult.. ill teach all day long for free. ( If you actually listen )

                  When I share my opinion about starting a niche product site and a business lead site for yourself, I usually do so without much further direction. In this case I just happened to have my potential niche list pulled up, and "Furnace Filters" was a match.

                  So that brings up the next question.. why would a guy that does CRO and SEO take time to develop a niche list? The TRUTH is regardless of the thousands and more I make with CRO and SEO... my niche sites make me more money. Less time and effort and far more return.. and 1/100th the head aches.

                  You can build and develop a business in SEO that is Client dictated.. They say yea they say no, they delete a page by mistake ( Oops ) they get sold a back linking strategy, and you wonder why ranking is slipping. You simply have NO control of the variables that dictate a solid outcome.

                  Build your own sites and you no longer are Client dependent.. no chasing no selling no f ups no bs.

                  If you truly are decent to good with SEO.. why wouldn't you at least develop a portion of your business that's uses your knowledge and effort for a direct stream of return? The answer to this one separates those that think SEO is a valid business to get into and those that truly have a understanding of ranking a site.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
                    Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                    I hate to jack the thread like this... but this is complete and utter non sense - Sorry.. It was running down hill and then you had to mention PBN? they are the fastest way to get rank? I don't use PBN's and get rank in D A Y S... it would take M O N T H S and $1000's of dollars just to develop a decent PBN.. and then you have to worry about a missed step and a G update wiping the whole thing clean... STUPID advice.
                    First of all, I'm NOT stupid! Let's make that clear. There are some very intelligent marketers that hang out and post here, or at least there used to be. There are still a few and I'm one of them, but if I were to ever draw some kind of warped, arrogant conclusion that I'm smarter than everyone else here and everyone elses advice wasn't any good, then I really would be stupid. I don't do that - ever!

                    I said the following.

                    Also, there are those that own PBN networks who'll rank sites for people that bring them clients and split the monthly profits 50/50. You just have to know how to find them.
                    I know of a few people that do this. I haven't used PBN links - yet, but I intend to do some testing. However, the testing I do will be exclusively on websites that I own, not a client website. I'm talking exclusively about "rank and rent" sites.

                    Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                    We are talking local SEO here... where is there mention of Citations, G and B business listings, local based back linking?
                    I use Nathan's list of Citation sites, I build sites using one type of "silo" method that I learned a few years ago that's still effective and I interlink the internal pages accordingly. Much of the time pages are indexed and rank well for many local terms just because of the on-site structure and lack of competition.

                    I also use YouTube videos that are created a certain way with plenty of text and links back to relevant pages.

                    I'm a member of an advanced SEO training where they also recommend and use a lot of technical stuff, but that's not my thing. I hate techy stuff. There are also other things that are taught so that others like myself have options.

                    Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                    Is it hard.. the answer is NO... but here is the thing... If you are sending out the fulfillment and you don't know what has to be done... well what HAS to be done wont get done. Because outsourcing fulfillment is only as good as the directions you give the fulfillment team.
                    I'm assuming that anyone attempting to do this would either know how to do basic SEO, know how to do PPC, or know someone reputable that knows how to do one or the other. Anyone who's motivated and has a good mindset will find a way. Most people that have no basic knowledge would be too intimidated to attempt it. Some will, some won't. I'm just saying that it doesn't have to be that hard to do.

                    Actually, there was another thread that CashFlow4Life started around 3 years ago that covered a lot of this stuff. That was one of the things inspired me to start dabbling in it. The other was a reply from Willie Crawford to a post I made last year..

                    Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                    Then find someone that can teach you... Im all in on this one.. BUT, im only all in when its a self owned site. there is a fine line between education and Consultation and I personally charge to Consult.. ill teach all day long for free. ( If you actually listen )
                    This refers back to the last statement you made.

                    Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                    So that brings up the next question.. why would a guy that does CRO and SEO take time to develop a niche list? The TRUTH is regardless of the thousands and more I make with CRO and SEO... my niche sites make me more money. Less time and effort and far more return.. and 1/100th the head aches.

                    You can build and develop a business in SEO that is Client dictated.. They say yea they say no, they delete a page by mistake ( Oops ) they get sold a back linking strategy, and you wonder why ranking is slipping. You simply have NO control of the variables that dictate a solid outcome.

                    Build your own sites and you no longer are Client dependent.. no chasing no selling no f ups no bs.

                    If you truly are decent to good with SEO.. why wouldn't you at least develop a portion of your business that's uses your knowledge and effort for a direct stream of return? The answer to this one separates those that think SEO is a valid business to get into and those that truly have a understanding of ranking a site.
                    This is my intent. The rank and rent sites are only meant to bring in a fast, steady income stream so I can get completely out of the supply business I've been in for years. I know someone else locally that's built his rank and rent sites into $25k over the past 2 years. I'll see how it goes and re-evaluate things ever so often.

                    I do intend to have a few niche sites built again. Even then, SEO isn't going to be my only source of traffic. I used to have several, but most went downhill after the Panda and Penguin updates. Thankfully, I was able to sell them all.

                    Enough said.

                    My apologies again to the OP for getting off topic.
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                    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
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            • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
              Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

              I respectfully disagree. I don't have a website in the niche I've been targeting and started doing this about a year ago part time. I've also sold supplies and equipment in a niche industry for over 20 years without a website.
              And it didn't stop my client bring in 25k worth of business
              in 3 days.

              http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...5k-2-days.html

              See comment #21.
              "the results are mind blowing."

              It hasn't stopped Puma and half a dozen biggest brands in New Zealand
              buying from my company.

              Best,
              Doctor E. Vile
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              • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                Ewen,

                RESPECTFULLY.... writing an ad is one thing.. and the guy on the other end of that ad that had to make the sale... I will bet it wasn't his FIRST rodeo and there was experience and examples of work.

                Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

                And it didn't stop my client bring in 25k worth of business
                in 3 days.

                http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...5k-2-days.html

                See comment #21.
                "the results are mind blowing."

                It hasn't stopped Puma and half a dozen biggest brands in New Zealand
                buying from my company.

                Best,
                Doctor E. Vile
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                • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
                  Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                  Ewen,

                  RESPECTFULLY.... writing an ad is one thing.. and the guy on the other end of that ad that had to make the sale... I will bet it wasn't his FIRST rodeo and there was examples of work.
                  No examples from himself because this was a new business
                  and he wasn't a website builder or designer.

                  I suspect he was quite good at one to one sales.

                  Best,
                  Doctor E. Vile
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              • Profile picture of the author Clautusoar
                Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

                And it didn't stop my client bring in 25k worth of business
                in 3 days.

                http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...5k-2-days.html

                See comment #21.
                "the results are mind blowing."

                It hasn't stopped Puma and half a dozen biggest brands in New Zealand
                buying from my company.

                Best,
                Doctor E. Vile
                Amen, Preach
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        • Profile picture of the author TCFKen
          Originally Posted by Clautusoar View Post

          I don't know if you covered this, but i know you mentioned specialize in a niche, but what if you havent had a sale yet, and your just starting out an seo agency, should you still target 10k+ clients, if so where is the best place to find these type of clients.

          I just go on manta.com and call hvac companies
          So for the first company you can definitely give a discount. There's a number of ways to go about it.

          When I look at how many potential clients asked us for references or proof - it honestly wasn't many, less tha 20%. The reason is we're so well positioned with the language of the market and the information we give out, most of them just assume results.

          Don't try to "force" your knowledge on them. We'll just mention stuff that only people in the industry would know about.

          In terms of finding clients, they are everywhere. We target the associations we're apart of, people advertising online and offline, general companies doing over 1 million in sales... it's endless really. Just make sure your marketing translates to the issues you see.
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          • Profile picture of the author savidge4
            To try and tie this all back into the original Post.. one thing that was not mentioned in the OP and is clearly not a consideration in most online / offline service business' is client retention. When you are Yelp and YP this is not such a big issue because the depth of their list and potential clients is mind numbing deep.

            When you are scraping Mantra and making 100's of calls a day.. you had better make sure than when you onboard a client, you have the ability to retain them or a while. The perpetual loop of 3 month clients is not for the faint of heart. And if you are all in with a client or 2 in this loop.. I sure hope you are all about some Top Ramen.

            Poor service equates to poor retention. Poor product equates to poor retention. Poor retention equates a endless onboarding loop to replace what has been lost. Once you have a system in place that provided results / better product and you start retaining clients you no longer are staying even, you start growing incrementally. GROWTH is where the big money everyone dreams of comes from.

            As TCFKen refers to in the OP, I literally have the big office with 8 employees. My labor expense every year is mind numbing. But unlike he mentions, the poor financial return of that scenario, I have over the many years developed a secret weapon, and that is Client Retention. At the absolute height of my web design firm, I had just short of 1000 clients. That's just short of 1000 companies paying me in the lower hundreds on average to "Maintain" their sites and or provided minimal services EVERY month.

            And how do you do this? you provide a rock solid service / product, that produces the desired result for the client - and that's making them money. Sure it takes time to get there... It doesn't happen over night... boy does it not happen over night. But to say I want to make 25k a month in a 2 year period.. so doable its not even funny as long as you have the service / product knowledge behind the whole thing. AS WELL AS the ability and confidence to get out and sell it.

            No body I know that is making "BANK" is scraping Mantra. ( Unless Iam is doing that, and he doesnt count lol ) Myself included use a multi channel onboarding strategy to include cold calling, cold walk ins, e-mail strategies, PPC, Social, direct mail ( I go further in my community and use media ads and billboards and yard signs and anything else - I am a firm believer in a branding strategy to increase my odds )

            To bring this a bit closer to home.. Looking at HVAC. Where I live... I pull up HVAC Bridgeport WV in Google, there are not that many listings. I could name off a good 10 company names easy that don't have an online presence at all.

            With HVAC in particular there are wholesale equipment houses that have pretty decent marketing tools accessible to their commercial clients ( HVAC installers / service techs ) I would STRONLGY suggest seeking these type out - and I will even help you a bit here try looking at https://www.habeggercorp.com/ and get ahold of some regional rep guys and see if there is a match in what you do, and what they do for their clients.

            The more a regional sales rep can get Installers to install.. the more commission they make. So a JV between YOU, a guy that can bring traffic and leads, and the guy that has a working professional relationship with way more HVAC guys than you can easily access is a good fit.

            Once you have a solid base with HVAC, you then start asking your clients if they know electricians.. if they know plumbers - Exponential GROWTH powered by positive long term results.
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            • Profile picture of the author TCFKen
              Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

              To try and tie this all back into the original Post.. one thing that was not mentioned in the OP and is clearly not a consideration in most online / offline service business' is client retention. When you are Yelp and YP this is not such a big issue because the depth of their list and potential clients is mind numbing deep.

              When you are scraping Mantra and making 100's of calls a day.. you had better make sure than when you onboard a client, you have the ability to retain them or a while. The perpetual loop of 3 month clients is not for the faint of heart. And if you are all in with a client or 2 in this loop.. I sure hope you are all about some Top Ramen.

              Poor service equates to poor retention. Poor product equates to poor retention. Poor retention equates a endless onboarding loop to replace what has been lost. Once you have a system in place that provided results / better product and you start retaining clients you no longer are staying even, you start growing incrementally. GROWTH is where the big money everyone dreams of comes from.

              As TCFKen refers to in the OP, I literally have the big office with 8 employees. My labor expense every year is mind numbing. But unlike he mentions, the poor financial return of that scenario, I have over the many years developed a secret weapon, and that is Client Retention. At the absolute height of my web design firm, I had just short of 1000 clients. That's just short of 1000 companies paying me in the lower hundreds on average to "Maintain" their sites and or provided minimal services EVERY month.

              And how do you do this? you provide a rock solid service / product, that produces the desired result for the client - and that's making them money. Sure it takes time to get there... It doesn't happen over night... boy does it not happen over night. But to say I want to make 25k a month in a 2 year period.. so doable its not even funny as long as you have the service / product knowledge behind the whole thing. AS WELL AS the ability and confidence to get out and sell it.

              No body I know that is making "BANK" is scraping Mantra. ( Unless Iam is doing that, and he doesnt count lol ) Myself included use a multi channel onboarding strategy to include cold calling, cold walk ins, e-mail strategies, PPC, Social, direct mail ( I go further in my community and use media ads and billboards and yard signs and anything else - I am a firm believer in a branding strategy to increase my odds )

              To bring this a bit closer to home.. Looking at HVAC. Where I live... I pull up HVAC Bridgeport WV in Google, there are not that many listings. I could name off a good 10 company names easy that don't have an online presence at all.

              With HVAC in particular there are wholesale equipment houses that have pretty decent marketing tools accessible to their commercial clients ( HVAC installers / service techs ) I would STRONLGY suggest seeking these type out - and I will even help you a bit here try looking at https://www.habeggercorp.com/ and get ahold of some regional rep guys and see if there is a match in what you do, and what they do for their clients.

              The more a regional sales rep can get Installers to install.. the more commission they make. So a JV between YOU, a guy that can bring traffic and leads, and the guy that has a working professional relationship with way more HVAC guys than you can easily access is a good fit.

              Once you have a solid base with HVAC, you then start asking your clients if they know electricians.. if they know plumbers - Exponential GROWTH powered by positive long term results.
              Yeah this is a good point, something I could write many posts on. Retention is huge, you also want to know your retention rates... what % of your clients are you keeping each month? Strive for great numbers 97% to 98% (this is for high ticket fees 1k+, for lower ticket the %'s will be even higher).

              I could write a massive post just on metrics, but even with great retention rates most agencies profit margins are still very slim. The agencies I'm referencing in the OP aren't fly by night people setting up a business, they are running very legitimate companies.. many with 20+ employees.

              Looks like I'll have to put together more posts for the group here - the topics are endless really, and I do enjoy writing about this stuff.
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      • Profile picture of the author eccj
        Originally Posted by TCFKen View Post

        Absolutely, you CANNOT resist the day to day activities that must be done to push your business forward. It's very easy put off sales for something that's more fun or creative. Leave that for the broke people.

        If you overcome the initial resistance, like you said, the process sort of takes over and you build off the momentum. Even if the first initial calls don't go well.. you're just going through the process.

        There's a very good book on this topic that covers resistance, overcoming it and the dangers of it - it's called the War of Art by Steven Pressfield. It's also nice to know that people in business aren't the only ones experiencing it. He references a lot of careers including writers, artists, musicians and entrepreneurs.
        Great that you mentioned that book as I have been meaning to review it here.

        Yes, read the book and then read it again. I have read it three times just to be safe.

        It's a little weird but hey the author is an artist so what do you expect BUT the man is dead on in identifying the problem holding us back; resistance.

        I put out a book this year and will put out another in a month. I came across the book in my library and since it deals with writing I decided to give it a shot as I have never read a book on writing.

        About, oh, ten minutes into the thing I started to think about sales, specifically cold calling and prospecting and that thing that stops sales people from doing the revenue generating activities. Resistance is the same thing that kills the would be author and the would be salesman.

        So go to the library and read the book.

        It will be painful reading it, you will see your own faults glaring right at you. The words of the author will be in your head when you start to do something just so you don't have to do the real work of the profession. But it will be worth it.
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  • Profile picture of the author misterme
    About #7... if you're tying up your time doing "menial, boring tasks" then you're not doing the higher paying work. Not only are you doing work you can get someone else to do, but you're doing work you haven't a passion for, which leads to dissatisfaction.
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    • Profile picture of the author TCFKen
      Originally Posted by misterme View Post

      About #7... if you're tying up your time doing "menial, boring tasks" then you're not doing the higher paying work. Not only are you doing work you can get someone else to do, but you're doing work you haven't a passion for, which leads to dissatisfaction.
      Completely disagree.

      There's plenty of tasks that are high leverage and boring. Hiring is a great example. Writing copy and ads gets boring. Client management gets extremely boring.

      The idea that everything you do is going to be passionate and always fun and exciting is completely untrue. Ive never seen anyone that goes through every minute of every day full of passion doing stuff they love. You really do have to develop a love for the process, even if it's stuff you don't want to do.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
      Originally Posted by misterme View Post

      About #7... if you're tying up your time doing "menial, boring tasks" then you're not doing the higher paying work. Not only are you doing work you can get someone else to do, but you're doing work you haven't a passion for, which leads to dissatisfaction.
      I agree with your take on this. I do believe that there are a few exceptions, though. Even then it depends on the individual, the type of work they're doing and the amount of control they deem necessary.

      Example, when building a new blog/site I feel the need to do certain things myself to make sure they're done the way I want them to be done. This can be keyword research, writing titles and descriptions for each page/post that are keyword rich, offer benefits and include a strong call to action, doing the actual on-site linking structure, etc.

      Another thing would be video scripts. I prefer to write the scripts for each slide. My VA does good work. I've had her with me since 2011, but there are a few things that she's really never completely grasped, so rather than spend time editing I just write it myself and send it to her to copy and paste into the slides.

      As I said though, I agree with you, but there are a few exceptions, for me at least.
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      • Profile picture of the author TCFKen
        Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

        I agree with your take on this. I do believe that there are a few exceptions, though. Even then it depends on the individual, the type of work they're doing and the amount of control they deem necessary.

        Example, when building a new blog/site I feel the need to do certain things myself to make sure they're done the way I want them to be done. This can be keyword research, writing titles and descriptions for each page/post that are keyword rich, offer benefits and include a strong call to action, doing the actual on-site linking structure, etc.

        Another thing would be video scripts. I prefer to write the scripts for each slide. My VA does good work. I've had her with me since 2011, but there are a few things that she's really never completely grasped, so rather than spend time editing I just write it myself and send it to her to copy and paste into the slides.

        As I said though, I agree with you, but there are a few exceptions, for me at least.
        Try to take it beyond just the start up phase of a business though. A lot of this Emyth/hire more people stuff really doesn't work out depending on the business and infrastructure. BTW not putting words in yours or Misterme's mouths, I understand what you guys mean but it really can get tricky.

        For example, if you have a consulting business doing 20k per month, you're going to be in a REAL dilemma. Let's say that 20k is made up of 15 clients.. at this point it becomes very difficult to manage those clients due to sheer numbers. You'll have to hire someone very soon to manage them and oversee the accounts and that the work is getting done - project management skills. Someone like this is very skilled and will probably cost you 50k a year.

        In order to make up that 50k you must increase sales. More sales beyond 20k per month = more developers, more marketing people... eventually you reach a point of diminishing returns and you have to almost double your revenue just to collect an extra 4k per month.

        That's what you DON'T read about in these books. Again, it depends on the business and these are just rough numbers but hiring people to do important jobs such as client management is MUCH different than picking up a contractor on Odesk to outsource to.

        Hopefully this gives people more perspective on what I'm talking about.
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        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
          Originally Posted by TCFKen View Post

          In order to make up that 50k you must increase sales. More sales beyond 20k per month = more developers, more marketing people... eventually you reach a point of diminishing returns and you have to almost double your revenue just to collect an extra 4k per month.

          That's what you DON'T read about in these books. Again, it depends on the business and these are just rough numbers but hiring people to do important jobs such as client management is MUCH different than picking up a contractor on Odesk to outsource to.
          I struggled with this for years. Increased business, and a decrease in profit, and as a business owner 9 times out of 10... Profit is YOUR paycheck. When you are paying people more than you are making, well you have issues! LOL

          Its not always about outsourcing or relieving yourself of tasks, so you can focus on what makes you money. I will tell you first hand and as TCFKen says this exercise in some cases can actually end up hurting you.

          I used to deal with primarily large clients, and large projects. $30,000+ projects sound real cool. When you look at a cost plus model and you are consuming 600 hours to get this behemoth job complete.. you may as well have took the job on yourself and worked for free. 60 jobs at $2000 with a 50% profit margin, cost plus sitting in at $100 an hour margins start to look rather nice. ( 60 small jobs consume the same amount of time as the 30K job. you do the math in the end and it is 4x growth )

          Sounds like more work, but the reality its not. The issue in volume, then becomes procedure and systems. Project management is paramount. The best time and money I have spent over the years has been in the investment of back end systems to track jobs from entry to out the door, and then from out the door to maintaining.

          I personally prefer automation ( database ) in this process. Once you work through people quiting and vacations and sick days at the worst time.. you just know there has to be a better way. I utilize a system that is transparent for everyone on the team to see. where a project is, what it needs, and when it needs to be complete.

          I personally see most people in the digital business world generally have no clue about cost. and more importantly how TIME equates to cost. I would rather pay 3x 4x the cost to get something done right than send it off to who knows where have to look it over, make corrections, change this, and change that.. hell I might as well have done it myself... and people think this process is saving them money? At the end of the day, even at $2.00 an hour or whatever.. I would bet money that outsourcing in most cases cost way more than people think. ( they do not consider their time in the process )

          All of it is a balancing act. All of it is dependent on the business you are running. All of it relys on a point in your business that takes accountability, be it a Accounts manager, a database, or yourself. The buck has to stop somewhere
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          • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
            Interesting talk about the delivering of internet marketing services
            and the complexity, infrastructure, profit growth constraints.

            The business model I've been working for 3 years is a physical product
            based one where if an order comes in for $100 or $100,000,
            the difference in time to deliver is only seconds.

            Another business I'm starting has the same model,
            therefore hasn't the growth constraints talked about here.

            Best,
            Doctor E. Vile
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            • Profile picture of the author Oziboomer
              Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

              Interesting talk about the delivering of internet marketing services
              and the complexity, infrastructure, profit growth constraints.

              The business model I've been working for 3 years is a physical product
              based one where if an order comes in for $100 or $100,000,
              the difference in time to deliver is only seconds.

              Another business I'm starting has the same model,
              therefore hasn't the growth constraints talked about here.

              Best,
              Doctor E. Vile
              Reminds me Ewen of the Theory of Constraints https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_constraints and the works of Eli Goldratt...particularly "The Goal" and It's Not Luck"

              Once you map out where the constraints are in your systems the only way to improve is to increase flow through the constraint.

              Mostly used in manufacturing but the thinking process is valid for many different situations.

              basically...

              Assuming the goal of a system has been articulated and its measurements defined, the steps are:
              1 Identify the system's constraint(s).
              2 Decide how to exploit the system's constraint(s).
              3 Subordinate everything else to the above decision(s).
              4 Elevate the system's constraint(s).
              5 Warning! If in the previous steps a constraint has been broken go back to step 1, but do not allow inertia to cause a system's constraint.
              If in the examples given throughout the posts the business operators could view their situations from these perspectives they could better identify their constraints and relieve their situations.

              I can understand the issues related to "rework" when outsourcing some tasks but in many cases some the rework would not necessarily have to be done if the systemisation and processes more clearly outlined to the individuals chosen to perform the tasks.

              This is why companies like Diigital Marketer for example have clearly defined SOPs. They will often sell those SOPs as splinter offers but originally they were developed for use "in house"

              Whether it is tasks given to direct employees or to sub-contracted workforces the ultimate responsibility for performance rests with the management who are firstly selecting the person to perform the role and their ability to give clear instructions or set performance criteria that help produce satisfactory outcomes for the business.

              In your example it is your experience that helps you set up models that don't have or have minimal constraints so that you can have greater success than people who have not been exposed to structuring things as you have.

              That is why there are many business stories where someone achieves quick success with a new business but many don't see the back story or experience of setting up, running and growing businesses that are then sold...or if unsuccessful are quickly culled and then move onto another and so on...each time improving their success rates.

              best regards,

              Ozi
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            • Profile picture of the author TCFKen
              Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

              Interesting talk about the delivering of internet marketing services
              and the complexity, infrastructure, profit growth constraints.

              The business model I've been working for 3 years is a physical product
              based one where if an order comes in for $100 or $100,000,
              the difference in time to deliver is only seconds.

              Another business I'm starting has the same model,
              therefore hasn't the growth constraints talked about here.

              Best,
              Doctor E. Vile
              I think once you go through the process of actually figuring out what a legitimate business looks like, and really understand volume and and the production side of things you get a much better understanding of what a scalable business looks like.

              This isn't something you can read in a Jim Collins book and get a complete grasp of. At some point you need to go out there, fail and figure out what works and what doesn't.

              I now know what specific items to look for in my next business if I want it to have a lot of scalability and still keep great margins. This is all stuff you have to feel out though, very much an art of balancing your budget and time... there really is no exact formula.
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              • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                For me this is where things get fun. Here on this forum we speak about how you as a business owner need to get out of the mundane and into the things that bring money in, such as sales etc. I personally see this as true in a sense.. Sales can be hired out, is it as effective as when I do it, no.. but can and does it get done.. sure it does.

                The aspect of my business that has increased profits the greatest over the years I would say are my HR skills. Not always having the ability to hire the right person for a position, but once someone is with me, I explore their talents be it strengths or weakness'.

                Developing a team around you that is working at full throttle, and focusing on tasks that are their strengths is critical. As Ozi mentions finding constraints with in your system is critical. More often than not,its not the task in particular, its the person doing the task. So identifying that, and more particularly.. what within a task is the shortcoming is critical.

                As an example I have a vinyl guy that is way wicked awesome with breaking down a image and getting all the pieces cut etc. His ability to actually weed the material and place the finished product on whatever sub straight just plain out blows monkeys. If you are paying attention you start to see this stuff - it didn't hurt any that I was continually in that part of the shop laboring away to ensure product was getting out on time.

                So I bring in a person a couple hours a day that just laid the vinyl and set my vinyl guy to task to only cut. Once that hurdle was crossed.. now the vinyl guy is standing waiting for stuff to spit out... easy enough get another cutter, and another and another. 1 guy 4 machines. my part time production labor is now full time, and production / profit increases 12x overall.

                It wasn't identifying the process as a whole as the weakness, but identifying the specific weakness in one and bringing in someone else with a strength that balanced out the apparent weakness.

                The same holds true in my online ventures. I literally have primary secondary and last resort lists on any number of tasks. If there is a job that requires say Java Script, there is a guy for that. if his time is booked out, there is a secondary fall back ( not as fast as the first guy, but gets the job done ) The third out in that category is hitting up the local college programming dept. I plain out suck with JavaScript... and at this point there is no reason for me to become better.

                So about outsourcing... the way my business works there are really no well defined tasks. anyone that builds custom websites will get this. as much as there may be a template you are working with, the finer points of the build change from job to job.

                Outsourcing I can see as awesome if you are working well defined SOP's replication of the same thing over and over with minor modifications. "Custom" and outsourcing is not a good match. Job specific and outsourcing again is not a good match. it would take longer to nail down and define a task to get complete than it would to actually complete it.

                That being said... how I look at this with available staff and additional labor resources available is not the same as a one or two man operation is going to look at it. BUT, I think the most over looked aspect of outsourcing is the time it takes to define a task, the time it takes to monitor the task, and the time it takes to check and correct the task once it is done. Your time has a far greater value than the outsourcer... but you read through out WF about how people are hour for hour keeping tabs via skype the outsourcers time and keeping tabs on them.. WTF is that all about?

                That is not outsourcing.. that is stupid! LOL. if you are going to send something out.. do just that.... pay for competent labor to produce the job to your specs, and get it in a timely manor. The one area that gets me the most.. I know many many guys that do this. Customizing a theme.. over and over getting a theme built the exact same way, instead of paying a decent programmer to develop a set of template pages and going that route. Pay once use many many many times.. vs paying every time.

                Identifying the bottle necks... looking back at past projects.. what am I doing time and again and paying for it.. how can I cut production corners by creating templates to cut overall labor and time. Is the person I have on the task really that proficient? could I get someone 5x more proficient at 2x the cost?

                I have found that local colleges are a fantastic labor resource. You have professors that will love to work with you, you get students that will about fall over themselves to get some real world experience and develop their portfolio. And you end up with the added bonus of fresh concepts an ideas injected into your business. It really can be a win win in many cases.
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          • Profile picture of the author Timaay
            Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

            I struggled with this for years. Increased business, and a decrease in profit, and as a business owner 9 times out of 10... Profit is YOUR paycheck. When you are paying people more than you are making, well you have issues! LOL

            Its not always about outsourcing or relieving yourself of tasks, so you can focus on what makes you money. I will tell you first hand and as TCFKen says this exercise in some cases can actually end up hurting you.

            I used to deal with primarily large clients, and large projects. $30,000+ projects sound real cool. When you look at a cost plus model and you are consuming 600 hours to get this behemoth job complete.. you may as well have took the job on yourself and worked for free. 60 jobs at $2000 with a 50% profit margin, cost plus sitting in at $100 an hour margins start to look rather nice. ( 60 small jobs consume the same amount of time as the 30K job. you do the math in the end and it is 4x growth )

            Sounds like more work, but the reality its not. The issue in volume, then becomes procedure and systems. Project management is paramount. The best time and money I have spent over the years has been in the investment of back end systems to track jobs from entry to out the door, and then from out the door to maintaining.

            I personally prefer automation ( database ) in this process. Once you work through people quiting and vacations and sick days at the worst time.. you just know there has to be a better way. I utilize a system that is transparent for everyone on the team to see. where a project is, what it needs, and when it needs to be complete.

            I personally see most people in the digital business world generally have no clue about cost. and more importantly how TIME equates to cost. I would rather pay 3x 4x the cost to get something done right than send it off to who knows where have to look it over, make corrections, change this, and change that.. hell I might as well have done it myself... and people think this process is saving them money? At the end of the day, even at $2.00 an hour or whatever.. I would bet money that outsourcing in most cases cost way more than people think. ( they do not consider their time in the process )

            All of it is a balancing act. All of it is dependent on the business you are running. All of it relys on a point in your business that takes accountability, be it a Accounts manager, a database, or yourself. The buck has to stop somewhere
            This is a great discussion. I haven't posted in awhile on WF because frankly nothing has interested me the few times i randomly check in but this again is a great discussion. I'm sure i'll be accused of trying to sell a WSO (never have in the 11 years i've been a member here so probably not going to do it now :-) I have an agency with 19 full time employees in house and then probably about 6 regular contractors that work with us and throw in an intern or two at any given time. We generate about $2M per year in revenue and I'm fortunate enough to be 'out of the business' so to speak unless you count speaking gigs and attending trade shows to network. I pass off all leads to my sales team. I can tell you that a digital agency can make GREAT profits but you have to get to a certain point in the life cycle of the business in order to enjoy those. Earlier someone said that there were 'thin' margins, etc... but that's only true if you are starting out and i'll tell you why.

            In any business it's about establishing your core team, a management team per se. It's hard to find that team... i've been in business 8 years with this particular business and it took me about 6 to find my management team. A team of people personally trained/coached by you that you pay very well. After you find that team they run your business and you sit at the top figuring out the best way organize/re-organize the structure and how to continue filling your sales peoples time with prospects for them to sell to.

            Everything sucked before i found the right people. I was getting bombarded with client calls, complaints, HR issues, billing (tracking payments down), IT issues, etc, etc, etc... There was no escape. Again it took me 6 years to find the right team so it was not a quick process by any means (how would that sound in a WSO, LOL... struggle for 6 years and then 'maybe' you might make it...). I continued because i knew that i needed to get 'experts' for each dept. in my business. For IT i needed a real IT person to manage servers, all computers in the office, DNS, email accounts, etc, etc... I was shocked that every client that we hosted their website for expected us to help them configure their Outlook, their iPhone, etc... for their email. It was insane sitting on the phone for hours with people helping them figure out why Outlook or their phone couldn't connect to their email account... LOL

            Same for every other thing involved in the business. But in the beginning i didn't have the money to hire experts for each role so i struggled. It was only when i totally jumped off the cliff and said that this agency was simply not going to make it unless i get the right people in the right roles and empower them to do great things. So i did everything i could to get the money to start hiring experts for each role. I'm not going to tell you how i made that transition right now because it's not important. It's more important to make the commitment to run the agency the right way and not to cut corners. If you commit to that and do the research you'll figure out how to get a few great people.

            My point is that now I have people to deal with clients, I don't. I have people that close sales for me, i don't. I have an HR director who handles all employee issues, i don't. I have SEO people who track all of the Google chaos, i don't. I have web developers that build custom websites, i don't. What i do is make sure the machine runs smooth, golf, and continue to make sure that my marketing puts us in position to develop qualified sales leads for my sales team to get into conversations and demo's with (trade shows, internet ads, email marketing, trade publications, networking, referral programs, etc...).

            I'll tell you the margins are great now because i pay my management team very well and then they run their respective depts. The dept. head makes great money and their people are mostly junior people because that's all you need once the processes are established and you have a smart dept. head watching all work passing through their dept. So as we bring on a new $2,000 to $3,000 per month client (occasionally we do bigger deals in the $10k-50k/month range but mostly about 2-3k per month is the norm for us) the people handling it are junior with senior people over seeing their work. That's where the scale and profits are. In the beginning, no there is no profit or money until you get over the hump so to speak.

            I've rambled enough, i hope this helps some people. Again this can be a profitable business you just have to get over the hump and get the right people in the right roles and the money will follow.

            cheers
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  • Profile picture of the author Zodiax
    Hi TFCKEN,

    Which one brought the greatest returns while your were a one man operation.

    Cold-emailing

    Or

    Cold-calling.
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    • Profile picture of the author TCFKen
      Originally Posted by Zodiax View Post

      Hi TFCKEN,

      Which one brought the greatest returns while your were a one man operation.

      Cold-emailing

      Or

      Cold-calling.
      Direct Mail has by far been #1, nothing has even come close. It's not even that expensive, the setup costs for effective email marketing can get a lot of mail out the door.

      There's a few variations of mail you can use, depending on what you're selling and the market you're selling to.
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      • Profile picture of the author SirThomas
        Originally Posted by TCFKen View Post

        Direct Mail has by far been #1, nothing has even come close. It's not even that expensive, the setup costs for effective email marketing can get a lot of mail out the door.

        There's a few variations of mail you can use, depending on what you're selling and the market you're selling to.
        You're talking about email not direct mail (physical mail), right?
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        • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
          Originally Posted by SirThomas View Post

          You're talking about email not direct mail (physical mail), right?
          Ken and I have talked back and forth literally for years and I've watched his business grow to surpass many others including my own. Kinda proud of my bit of involvement in that ;-)

          But Ken did it HIMSELF.

          He's one of the most driven people I've met. By the time he's 30 he'll have done more than most businesspeople will have accomplished in their entire lives.

          And since he was probably having fun and couldn't come back to respond, I will:

          Direct mail was how he did it.

          Not just a letter.

          It's a package. Not huge, a few complimentary pieces with a central purpose.

          Then there'd be a phone conversation.

          I'm sure he'll explain further when he gets back.


          And a lesson to all the "Will it work?" folks:

          NO.

          It DIDN'T work the first time out.

          He had to test, send in small batches, spend money he didn't frickin' want to right then, and adjust until it DID work.

          And now he has the basis of that formula, forever.

          First he did it with the attraction process, the traffic side: kept punching at it until it worked.

          Then he went at the conversion side. Started having those conversations ("How the heck DO you sign on a $10K/month client?"). And didn't get the sale. And kept at it until he DID get the sale.

          That's the right attitude, newbies.

          Be clear about what you're doing, and stick with it, figuring out a little more about it until you succeed. Then nobody can take it away from you. Ken's got knowledge and skills people twice his age will never get...because he risked to get it.
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        • Profile picture of the author TCFKen
          There's some really great posts in here. It's nice to know us intermediate guys can learn a ton still about HR, hiring and SOP's from the advanced people.


          Originally Posted by SirThomas View Post

          You're talking about email not direct mail (physical mail), right?
          I'm referring to direct mail aka sending by post. As Jason said it's not typical letters, we send a lot of different items. I've tested just about everything. I don't know if anyone has more experience than us when it comes to setting up sales appointments through mail pieces lol.

          It works incredibly well as I mentioned but it's just 1 of the marketing items we use.
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  • Profile picture of the author ChrisBa
    Very great tips, congrats on your success!

    One thing I find very interesting about your first point, often people tend to try to sell something the cheapest thinking it will attract the most customers. Often the pricing point tends to tell you what type of product you are buying. If you see something that is $3 compared to $199, which will you think is the better product? I could be the exact same, but most people will perceive the $199 as being much better.
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  • Profile picture of the author taffie
    This is real value, something I plan to do this year, it's like you have been in my head, I have found a great niche. See, as for me I can't entirely say I had not known what needed to be done, I think sometimes I just didn't follow all the instructions to the T for one reason or the other including avoiding the stuff I don't enjoy doing as you rightly say, and this frustrated my coaches every single time, you when you get on a call and they tell you what you need to do and you go away and don't do it.

    You know, things like you need to create your own product, you need to track, you need to test and tweak squeeze pages, you need to find a niche etc!

    When I take audit of myself I find I still avoid doing these tasks and yet they are where it's at.

    Great article!
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  • Profile picture of the author Praveece
    Long valuable information. This is how a business become successful in a short span. Business strategies will be changing constantly and we have to implement new better plans that can be studied from such business successes.
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  • Profile picture of the author yasserkhan
    Originally Posted by TCFKen View Post


    The services we sell are no different than what everyone else is selling, it’s our brand, marketing and positioning (and a very refined sales process) that allows us to charge more.

    Awesome post!
    Most of your advice is fully relevant to me as well.

    Could you elaborate further on your 'refined sales process'?
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    • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
      Originally Posted by yasserkhan View Post

      Awesome post!
      Most of your advice is fully relevant to me as well.

      Could you elaborate further on your 'refined sales process'?
      Did you go to the link in his sig?
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      • Profile picture of the author yasserkhan
        Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

        Did you go to the link in his sig?
        Hey Jason,

        Yeah I just did. Now I know!

        Thanks!
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    • Profile picture of the author TCFKen
      Originally Posted by yasserkhan View Post

      Awesome post!
      Most of your advice is fully relevant to me as well.

      Could you elaborate further on your 'refined sales process'?
      Hi Yasser, it's a bit different than closing companies on one call. We've found it extremely difficult to close high ticket sales (say $2,000+ per month) with one call closing.

      We typically setup an appointment and show the client all of the problems then present the solution. There's also a TON of social proof & positioning involved in the process.. this has all taken a lot of time to learn.

      There's more information on this on my blog as well you can check out.

      Hope that helped.
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      • Profile picture of the author yasserkhan
        Thanks!

        Yes that's very helpful! I've already checked your blog as well and signed up.
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        • Profile picture of the author TCFKen
          Originally Posted by yasserkhan View Post

          Thanks!

          Yes that's very helpful! I've already checked your blog as well and signed up.
          We put out a post yesterday that I think will help you out a lot as well. It covers both the sales and marketing process for fast clients and how to have clients finding you long term.
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          • Profile picture of the author iamnotfrankkern
            It seems the link in yor sig does not work anymore. Is there a way to get access to the video training?
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        • Profile picture of the author NomadLifestyle
          Thank you so much for sharing this!

          Love seeing what other people learn from experience.

          I'll take wisdom over book learning any day of the week.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
    I hope everyone who is enjoying and getting value out of this thread goes and visits the training link Ken has in his sig.

    A lot more detail about his process and what he does is explained there.

    We've joked a lot over the years about successful entrepreneurs being willing to "get punched in the face for two years"...and that being the main differentiating factor between winning and losing.

    More than any technical thing.

    Even Steve Harvey put out a quick video on being willing to "jump"...and saying that you WILL crash and bleed once, twice, maybe even more...but eventually your parachute will open and you will soar.

    I'd be interested in having a discussion about willingness to experience some pain (which, BTW, makes it much more bearable because you're the one in control then.)

    Also, the idea that your business model never sits still. It's always evolving. This isn't a "figure it out one time and forget about it" thing.
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    • Profile picture of the author TCFKen
      Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

      I hope everyone who is enjoying and getting value out of this thread goes and visits the training link Ken has in his sig.

      A lot more detail about his process and what he does is explained there.

      We've joked a lot over the years about successful entrepreneurs being willing to "get punched in the face for two years"...and that being the main differentiating factor between winning and losing.

      More than any technical thing.

      Even Steve Harvey put out a quick video on being willing to "jump"...and saying that you WILL crash and bleed once, twice, maybe even more...but eventually your parachute will open and you will soar.

      I'd be interested in having a discussion about willingness to experience some pain (which, BTW, makes it much more bearable because you're the one in control then.)

      Also, the idea that your business model never sits still. It's always evolving. This isn't a "figure it out one time and forget about it" thing.
      Ha, oddly enough I don't think the punches ever stop. I think you just get better at taking them. I also think you can look at it as "pain" or look at it as a challenge. The stories you tell yourself can definitely help or hurt you.
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      • Profile picture of the author Headstart
        Good information. How much do you spend on Direct Mail every month?
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        • Profile picture of the author TCFKen
          Originally Posted by Headstart View Post

          Good information. How much do you spend on Direct Mail every month?
          When I was just starting out it was maybe a few hundred, definitely under $500. Now it's probably closer to a couple thousand every month just for the mail.
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          • Profile picture of the author Headstart
            Originally Posted by TCFKen View Post

            When I was just starting out it was maybe a few hundred, definitely under $500. Now it's probably closer to a couple thousand every month just for the mail.
            Okay. 2 more questions.

            Do you send out of the country?

            Is that $2000 spent on just stamps or everything involved?
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  • Profile picture of the author GabyLu
    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author TCFKen
      Originally Posted by GabyLu View Post

      I think hunger can develop when your in the process of something, then move into the flow of doing the process. For instance i hate cold calling, but yesterday, i was stressing out beginning, and i eventually end up calling, after hours go by, i got into a hunger state, like a machine, i couldn't stop calling.
      Exactly, every day you're going to have "resistance" as Stephen Pressfield calls it. You overcome it and eventually you just engage with the task. The thing you hated and resisted actually becomes fun and enjoyable, it's the initial work and getting started that creates all of the problems.
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  • Profile picture of the author spazz896
    fantastic read, thanks for sharing! Love the process, enjoy the journey!
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  • Profile picture of the author sdentrepreneur
    Great Post and Thread with solid information!!! Mindset and work ethic should also be included. Too many people are looking for a "Get Rich Quick Scheme"
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