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Challenges of Selling Direct Response Advertising on Main Street

by stacyfox
15 replies
So, I was reading some older direct response advertising material and there was a line that struck me. It was advice to chiropractors to ignore the advertising know-how of newspaper and yellow page salesmen and use direct response techniques in their print advertisements. It said that these salesmen had not been trained in direct response advertising and would produce me-to advertising.

I do not dispute the advice to the chiropractors.

But it suddenly struck me, "why were all of these newspaper and yellow page salesmen trained in me-to brand advertising? Wouldn't the newspapers and yellow pages at some point have caught on that direct response was better for the customer? That they would sell more advertising if the ads were producing more for their clients?"

And then something profound happened. I started to think that maybe the newspapers and yellow pages were not as stupid as we direct response people have made them out to be all along. The big companies do not have their clients' best interest at heart; they have their own best interest in mind. You see, I think it is easier to SELL me-to brand advertising.

What is the easier headline to sell:

YOUR FIRM HERE

-or-

PAIN HEADLINE HERE

I believe it is the former headline. What attorney doesn't like to see his name in lights? This vanity aspect is sold throughout the me-to brand advertising. For instance, in attorney direct response advertising, we always say, "nobody cares where you went to law school." But that's not completely true. There is one person who cares a lot: the attorney. And he's the one buying the ad.

Beyond sheer vanity, direct response advertising has another barrier and that is education. Since me-to brand advertising is what these clients have known, you as the direct response salesman have the responsibility to sell the client on why this kind of advertising is more effective. That is actually a hard job. Take it seriously.

The internet has made print advertising less effective. And the internet is more about direct response. It is much easier to measure how effective an ad is on the internet. But I don't think that makes it (much) easier to sell direct response. I think it is still easier to sell people on their name in lights.

I know the argument against this post will be that businessmen want clients, that they want profits. That is true. But there are still two challenges to the direct response advertising salesman:

1.) Education: How does that click convert to clients and profits? I don't know that our customers "get" this as readily as we assume we do.

2.) Vanity: I think we underestimate how much of the advertising spend in the past was about vanity. For instance, I knew an attorney who spent money on a t.v. appearance with an aging conservative talk show host. He said it was a "gift" to his hero. But when the show came out, he had a party and had all of his friends over. The money he spent on "advertising" was about doing something that fulfilled his vanity. This is an extreme example, but direct response people who strip out all vanity from advertising would be smart to bear it in mind.

Keep in mind that I am not challenging the effectiveness of direct response advertising, only the challenges of selling it on Main Street.

I had this insight when reading some older DR material and I'm looking forward to hearing all of your responses.
#advertising #challenges #direct #main #response #selling #street
  • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
    when INEXPERIENCED salespeople try to sell something they know nothing about.

    Take Direct Response, being sold by people who have never been in the industry, have no clue of what or how the mechanics of doing it are...and they try to persuade a chiropractor on using direct mail. Even good salespeople will have difficulties.

    I've seen this challenge exploited in the last few years by selling people easy-peasy 'sell advertising to businesses by'...

    pizza box tops
    giant postcards
    nothing but ads pubs
    menus
    daily special boards
    ads at urinals
    ads in motel/hotel rooms
    coupon pubs
    new specialty pubs (seniors, women, sports)
    sports cards
    bumper stickers
    and now
    Pokemon Go attraction devices
    sms
    AND 101 other things

    And after talking to the people who failed (by the dozens) at these programs, any one of which has WORKED for someone,

    It is almost always a case of "she made it sound so easy" and find out, "it's just not for me".

    I have PROOF, that a direct response promotion will out pull and work better for about 80% of the small businesses out there, BUT, I also know what the 20% are that it does NOT work for. This from 35 years of selling ads by both Direct Response and the general ad vehicle route.

    If you know what you're talking about, either/or can be lucrative, but DR requires an understanding, which most of you LACK and therefore, don't know how to present it to the prospect. Ande w2hen I say know what you are talking about, that means Salesmanship.

    GordonJ

    PS And if newspapers or yellow pages really knew what they were doing, being smarter than us and all, there probably wouldn't be so many of them going out of business, eh?
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    • Profile picture of the author Oziboomer
      Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

      when INEXPERIENCED salespeople try to sell something they know nothing about.

      Take Direct Response, being sold by people who have never been in the industry, have no clue of what or how the mechanics of doing it are...and they try to persuade a chiropractor on using direct mail.......

      I have PROOF, that a direct response promotion will out pull and work better for about 80% of the small businesses out there, BUT, I also know what the 20% are that it does NOT work for. This from 35 years of selling ads by both Direct Response and the general ad vehicle route.
      Thanks Gordon.

      It would be fantastic to share what the key mechanics are to have in place in relation to your experiences.

      PROOF is also a powerful word.

      I'm not so interested in the 80% but the 20% of businesses that DR doesn't work for would also be a good share here to help those who don't have the depth of experience you possess.

      You don't have to spill the beans.

      However...you might want to share your knowledge now.

      Best regards,

      Ozi
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      • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
        Originally Posted by Oziboomer View Post

        Thanks Gordon.

        It would be fantastic to share what the key mechanics are to have in place in relation to your experiences.

        PROOF is also a powerful word.

        I'm not so interested in the 80% but the 20% of businesses that DR doesn't work for would also be a good share here to help those who don't have the depth of experience you possess.

        You don't have to spill the beans.

        However...you might want to share your knowledge now.

        Best regards,

        Ozi
        You are right. So, the 20%.

        Small service providers who have a small client fee, with their time involved.

        You have a business where a customer could spend a few hundred bux, don't know your avg, but I'd bet it is over 20 bux with less than an hour put in, right?

        But barbers, general beauticians (older ones, not in an upscale salon) who have to spend time servicing their customers for a relative low wage. Sure, today a woman might spend a 100 to have her hair "styled and colored"...but most momma and poppa shops with just two or three chairs...

        DR does not work for them. Same with a small area pizza shop, they can't draw across barriers...example, I have 10 pizza shops which will deliver to my door, but one of the nearer ones, across the river and over the tracks, won't because one train or rush hour and their driver wastes time.

        Businesses which serve a small area, with one or two providers fall into the 20%. Exceptions are always easy to find, mostly with specialty providers offering a huge discount, like tire dealers doing a two for one deal. Then DR might work.

        We determined this by ROI. With DR, you KNOW. There is not guess work nor "I think" or "I don't know" when a customer uses the newspaper and can't track the promotion.

        In these cases, the 20% it is just not cost feasible and makes no sense for the biz owner to do it...YET

        the desperate INEXPERIENCED person will waste time chasing after these to get the last 5 slots on her giant postcard filled up. They may get momma Felice beauty one time, but when the dismal results come in, and Moma KNOWS the INEXPERIENCED PERSON does not know why, Momma ain't going to sign up again.

        PROOF only comes through the results and testing. Sure, it can be argued that is what the inexperienced person does, tests, but at the expense of the business owner who may have spent $4,000 on being on the back of a register tape and gets zero results. Now you have an angry Momma F.

        Even in DR, some formats (the mechanics) work for some but not all businesses. We once sent a complete package, a letter, a lift letter, a sales sheet, return envelope, and an involvement device which worked great...but, we tested a POSTCARD and got better results. See? All that extra expense did work, but had we gone with just those results, it would have cost us and the businesses a lot of money.

        The mechanics are knowing what a die cut is, what a sheet catalog is, what an involvement device is, what a lift is...the basics of DR. And what the process is to get all those elements lined up and ready when it is time, you can't have the letter come in late if you are on deadline.

        Even in newspapers and magazines when you run a DR ad, you have to have your response ready on the day it comes out, and I've witnessed the horror of not having the 800 number operational and enough phones manned when a promotion went (as Mel B would say) off the chain.

        OK, many people have done a 9 x 12 postcard and by taking two months to get the ads sold, the first guys are getting pissed off cause they want to know when...and the INEXPERIENCED sales person is BELIEVER of the seller of such information...and usually have no print background, don't know what the set up is, or what bleed is when they sell the ads and any adjustment will delay the thing.

        And NO selling backgound.

        So they do one 9 x 12 and can't get people to go on the second one. That sort of thing is a result of inexperience and buying into some nice copywriting promises, the "If I did it you can".

        Storm coming, be back after it passes.

        Gordon J
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        • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
          Ya but...

          any marketing, including a plain old display ad, is better than none at all.

          Cause, if they don't know you're there, they aren't going to buy from you.

          And, for years, MOST businesses running ads in the phone book only ran display type ads.

          It must have worked. They stayed in business and paid several thousands of dollars each year, to keep running the same type of ads.

          Those are the facts. Argue if you want.

          Most businesses are getting by fine, without direct response marketing.

          Also, it's not that folks here on this forum have a problem understanding direct marketing. There are plenty who do.

          The problem is trying to convince or educate a business owner who doesn't get it.
          Unfortunately, that is most of them. From my experience, it's futile to attempt to
          change their thinking.

          Ron
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          • Profile picture of the author eccj
            Originally Posted by Ron Lafuddy View Post

            Ya but...

            any marketing, including a plain old display ad, is better than none at all.

            Cause, if they don't know you're there, they aren't going to buy from you.

            And, for years, MOST businesses running ads in the phone book only ran display type ads.

            It must have worked. They stayed in business and paid several thousands of dollars each year, to keep running the same type of ads.

            Those are the facts. Argue if you want.

            Most businesses are getting by fine, without direct response marketing.

            Also, it's not that folks here on this forum have a problem understanding direct marketing. There are plenty who do.

            The problem is trying to convince or educate a business owner who doesn't get it.
            Unfortunately, that is most of them. From my experience, it's futile to attempt to
            change their thinking.

            Ron
            You're right. There are businesses that do fine with display ads and non-DR.

            I was just in a conversation with a State Farm agent in a town with 13,000 population.

            This guy has been in business for 25 years and is active in the community. He can put an ad with his name and face and get a response because people know him and refer him. He can't lose with advertising. Also, State Farm does a ton of advertising and also gives him co-op money. I am sure all of those things work together to his advantage.

            Other businesses do fine despite their advertising. If they have a good reputation then they will get calls and convert well. There is so much more to marketing than just advertising that goes into a success and failure.

            Some businesses advertise so much, such as car dealerships, that they have top of mind awareness.

            I will say that they could all do better though with some DR know-how. These are the businesses that will see geometric growth with their advertising.
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        • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
          An observation: about 200 people went into the Catholic church across the street at noon, the forecast called for thunderstorms...and minute cast showed they would arrive before church let out.

          160 people got soaked. 2 old people, one woman, one man...took umbrellas in with them...about 40 or so stayed in the church, trying to out wait it...then all hell broke loose for about 35 minutes, lightning (which always makes me go offline) and flooding conditions...it let up to about where it was when the first group came out, so another 38 people got wet and lost their time.

          I always carry an umbrella, even on no rain days...why?
          I live in Northeast Ohio, we have the worst forecasters in the world and the winds coming across the Great Lakes always has surprises. The umbrella has helped me ward off two dogs and the cruel sun on occasion.

          Relevant to the discussion? Probably not, but I don't get "wet" when selling advertising because I am PREPARED. I'm experienced...so back to sharing some of that experience (I'll correct all spelling errors later, don't have much time until the next storm)...

          And to address the OP, and other posters who have since contributed...when you present facts and figures, the PROOF of the efficacy of DR, you don't have to educate or persuade...and if you have a choice, either/or DR or typical space (or other) types of ads. Like the umbrella, I always have a choice to offer.

          There are some businesses with only NON paid referrals keeping them in business, because they do a good job and the customer WANTS to pass this on to friends, family and others. So, no, not EVERY business has to advertise, although there is much truth in getting your business "out there" and advertising is certainly ONE very good way to do it.

          I again assert, Main St. doesn't use DR unless someone shows them the Proof it can and will work, and the thing too many NOOBS in ad selling can't do is show them the proof and put their own money where their mouth is. You don't need it most of the time, but when occasion calls for it, I back it up with a 100% money back guarantee.

          It is sort of like telling my former resume clients I could find them their ideal job in 90 days (for 495 bux) or they got a refund. I never gave a refund, because most couldn't define their ideal...

          And as others have noted, me included, DR doesn't work for all businesses, POSTCARDS don't work for all...

          NOTHING is absolute, there are NO imperatives about running a successful business other than profits need exceed expenses (at some point, even Amazon could not stay in the red forever).

          The better thing is to know what your prospect spends and can afford to spend and some of these guys, who have posted...only target the guys spending big money on ads, which is smart and savvy and leave the chasing around to the "believers" of quick and easy money...

          AND there are ways to do that too...but what is easy for some...

          not so easy for others. 85% of people are scared of public speaking, let alone selling, never mind making phone or cold calls. YIKES!

          There are still plenty of people doing far less work selling ads to Main St. businesses and making more than a vast majority of IMers every day of the week...but few I know of are doing it from there computers. Maybe.

          But most put shoe leather to the pavement and KNOW what they are doing. They are salespeople.

          There are times to sell DR, times to offer something else, you've got to be a little bit Kenny Rogers to know when to hold em, know when to fold em.

          GordonJ
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        • Profile picture of the author animal44
          Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

          But barbers, general beauticians (older ones, not in an upscale salon) who have to spend time servicing their customers for a relative low wage. Sure, today a woman might spend a 100 to have her hair "styled and colored"...but most momma and poppa shops with just two or three chairs...

          DR does not work for them.
          My experience is different.

          A small Barbers got their first clients by leaflets (I wasn't involved, I just chatted with the owner at one point).

          If we take the cheapest local Barber, they charged £10 for a short back and sides when they started. If they leafleted all 8500 homes in our rural town and only got 1% response, then that'd be 85 new clients. If those clients came back every month for ten years, that'd be £102,000 in sales over that period. And most Barbers/Hairdressers keep their customers longer than ten years... I'd say that's a pretty good ROI... And I'd be disappointed if I only got 1% response...

          I've not (yet) come across a business that cannot benefit from a direct mail campaign...
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          • Profile picture of the author savidge4
            Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

            My experience is different.

            A small Barbers got their first clients by leaflets (I wasn't involved, I just chatted with the owner at one point).

            If we take the cheapest local Barber, they charged £10 for a short back and sides when they started. If they leafleted all 8500 homes in our rural town and only got 1% response, then that'd be 85 new clients. If those clients came back every month for ten years, that'd be £102,000 in sales over that period. And most Barbers/Hairdressers keep their customers longer than ten years... I'd say that's a pretty good ROI... And I'd be disappointed if I only got 1% response...
            Keyword with all of this is "experience"... Those of us that have been doing this would indeed be disappointed in 1%. BUT, if you are starting out or have 2 or 3 sales under your belt... 1% should be a benchmark to shoot for.

            The unspoken truth in all of this is not so much what should be expected as the result for your client.. but what it takes to get that client. Think giant postcard.. we will say you want 9 clients to fill spots. IF 1% is a benchmark, then you will have to pound pavement and be on the phone and contact 900 potential clients IE prospects in order to fill that card.

            The hardest part in communicating on this board for me personally is discussing topics such as this from a perspective of a beginner. That same card above.. I could probably fill in 20 phone calls in less than 2 hours time... but I have 30 years of EXPERIENCE and a client list spanning the same amount of time. For me, the card would be easy.. for those that have the dream to get into this.. the path is far from gold bricks.. Id say you would be lucky if there is a path at all. The strong will survive, and the weak will move on to the next thing repeating the dream that is actually a nightmare over and over.

            Success in sales is part education and part actually doing it and failing.. take notes change it up and keep going. The hard part... #1 learning you need to change it up, and #2 actually changing it in a positive manor. This is not a process that happens over night... F after 30 years im still changing LOL.

            Success in advertising or being a service provider or anything for that matter is understanding the need to adapt, to draw on past experience, and to continually move forward. Just think 1 less no to a yes and keep going. The actual act of getting shot down, is in itself experience... learn how to sell, by looking back out how you lost a sale.

            Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

            I've not (yet) come across a business that cannot benefit from a direct mail campaign...
            I would say you HAVE.. but through your process of client selection, there were not enough boxes checked and you moved on. They simply would not qualify as a perfect fit.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
      Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

      I've seen this challenge exploited in the last few years by selling people easy-peasy 'sell advertising to businesses by'...

      pizza box tops
      giant postcards
      nothing but ads pubs
      menus
      daily special boards
      ads at urinals
      ads in motel/hotel rooms
      coupon pubs
      new specialty pubs (seniors, women, sports)
      sports cards
      bumper stickers
      and now
      Pokemon Go attraction devices
      sms
      AND 101 other things

      And after talking to the people who failed (by the dozens) at these programs, any one of which has WORKED for someone,

      It is almost always a case of "she made it sound so easy" and find out, "it's just not for me".
      Most of the people trying these things and failing, lack the necessary basic selling skills

      With those, it IS fairly easy. Without them? No.

      Sort of like the unskilled copywriter "wannabees" who buy into the "easy, peasy" garbage slung by those trying to sell them something.

      Ron
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      • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
        Originally Posted by Ron Lafuddy View Post

        Most of the people trying these things and failing, lack the necessary basic selling skills

        With those, it IS fairly easy. Without them? No.

        Sort of like the unskilled copywriter "wannabees" who buy into the "easy, peasy" garbage slung by those trying to sell them something.

        Ron
        Agree. But why do so many try?

        They fall for it. The are BELIEVERS. She did it, she says she ain't special. She has a PLAN.

        Follow my plan she shouts."Just do what I do, you too can have the same results."

        No mention of having to SELL something,
        no reference to selling other than, "you don't have to be a salesman".

        You know Ron, no, YOU KNOW.

        And it can be comical, but too often SAD, because the believers want it to be so, they want it to work, they hope, wish maybe even pray.

        And their plan...and as I oft do, quote Michael Tyson,

        "everyone has a plan until they get hit in the mouth"

        The OP is challenging the selling of DR to Main St. and you and I know it is easy, but not for all of Main Street businesses and easy for the Pros. I guess the answer is become a PRO and one will have NO PROblem with it.

        GordonJ
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        • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
          Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

          I guess the answer is become a PRO and one will have NO PROblem with it.
          The answer is: Learn How. Learn how to sell.

          Simple answer. Difficult (for the majority) to execute.

          Sort of like sex, Gordon.

          It's easier to dream about it, than it is to do it.

          But...it's far more satisfying and rewarding, to just do it.

          And now I'm off to take a nap. lol

          Ron
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        • Profile picture of the author eccj
          Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

          Agree. But why do so many try?

          They fall for it. The are BELIEVERS. She did it, she says she ain't special. She has a PLAN.

          Follow my plan she shouts."Just do what I do, you too can have the same results."

          No mention of having to SELL something,
          no reference to selling other than, "you don't have to be a salesman".

          You know Ron, no, YOU KNOW.

          And it can be comical, but too often SAD, because the believers want it to be so, they want it to work, they hope, wish maybe even pray.

          And their plan...and as I oft do, quote Michael Tyson,

          "everyone has a plan until they get hit in the mouth"

          The OP is challenging the selling of DR to Main St. and you and I know it is easy, but not for all of Main Street businesses and easy for the Pros. I guess the answer is become a PRO and one will have NO PROblem with it.

          GordonJ
          So it comes down to proof. That is the secret sauce for DR sales to non-DR businesses.

          Makes sense.

          Be prepared with proof.
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          • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
            Originally Posted by eccj View Post

            So it comes down to proof. That is the secret sauce for DR sales to non-DR businesses.

            Makes sense.

            Be prepared with proof.
            No. You'll still need to be able to sell them on the idea.

            You can come in with an arm full of "proof" and benefits and whatever.

            You will still need to sell it. They aren't going to just roll over for ya and write a check.

            Thus, you need to know how to sell, in order to make this work.

            If you can't sell, none of the rest of it matters.

            Even still, if it is foreign to what they know and understand, proof or not, you are facing an uphill battle.

            Ron
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  • Profile picture of the author eccj
    Great thread.

    DR Sales to Main St USA is hard. That is why the YP and the newspapers don't do it.

    t takes an educated salesman AND an educated business.

    The newspaper doesn't care about advertisers. They care about pushing their worldview on their readers and calling it "news." They are jokes.

    I do sells to these types of businesses and you are exactly right on the vanity thing. Some people like seeing their big face on a billboard, or in the local magazine.

    Other businesses will only take the co-op money and put a logo for the cheapest ad they can buy. They then get mad and say "it doesn't work."

    I love an educated client. Some people are afraid of an educated client but not me.

    You need to find people that are open to being educated. Show them how a headline works, tell them about big successes in DR that they know about - like the George Foreman grill.

    Hit them with facts and figures and books and articles and speeches, etc.

    There are people out there that will spend money on most any type of advertising. Find those people and take their money.

    Shout out to GordonJ on the 20% thing. That is some solid information.
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  • Profile picture of the author animal44
    There seems to be crossed wires...

    Ozi was asking about the 20% that DR doesn't work.

    Gordon's response was low cost barbers as an example.

    I showed an example where DR did work for a low cost barber.

    You are now talking about selling DR advertising...

    I think maybe there's two threads running parallel... :-)

    BTW In my experience, Hairdressers are aware of the lifetime value of a customer, or at the very least they are aware that a customer is worth far more than an individual haircut... Not something you can say about every business... :-)
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