So Why Is it?

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Why is it, that if a person was to apply for a normal job, lets say as a baker, that it would be expected that he could then bake.

He or she would rock up to work, and pretty well they would start baking, yes? they would not say to the boss, O hang on, let me just log onto the bakers forum and find out how to cook a cake, then send a post out saying guys, just landed my dream gig baking bread and cakes and if I get this right I can make some dough, can you tell me where to start on how to mix flour and water please?

Any any other variant.

But here it seems every second or third person, can come along and know sweet fanny adams about two knobs of goat turd, and say something like, I have just scored my dream marketing gig, wow I am going to be the next big knob in town. Now can somebody show me how to start, I know it must be easy and I can learn this in 5 seconds.

O and can those people who have actually worked hard for years working this out, yes you, can you pull your finger out and answer me now as I am important and I need your answers right now.

Really how stuffed up are some people to even think like this? maybe it is all the bull crap in the WSO's and the like from some people, telling people they can hero's just for one day, but they themselves have never walked the walk and are just peddling recycled crap to the next gullible victim?

They say you can make money selling dreams and this whole Internet marketing thing does at time paint a bull crap picture and sell that dream, but at some point people surley must get out of noddy land and live in a real world and learn to wipe their own backside?

It must one of the only roles on earth, where people can bull crap and know nothing and then come here begging for help.

rant rant rant over ...
#offline marketing
  • I think I actually know the answer.

    It's just how completely inexperienced people think.
    They go online...and see things for sale..and think "I can go online. How hard can it be? But to make sure that I'll make money immediately, I'll ask three questions..and then I'll know the industry".

    See.....you know how complex the business is, and they don't.

    They ask a question like "How do I make money online", and they think the question can be completely answered in 5 minutes. But you know that many of these questions would take days to answer.

    They may ask "Could someone write me a cold calling script?", and they think it's almost effortless. They have no idea that the consultant would need to ask them a hundred questions, then learn about their market, then find a good list, then test a script....

    They just have no idea what they are asking.

    It's a matter that they are completely new, and you are not.

    My Mother-in law once asked me (when I sold vacuum cleaners in people's homes)
    "How do you make money selling vacuums?"

    I said "I sell them for more than I pay for them".

    And she said "Is that legal?"

    And that's one step away from the questions Newbies ask. But I was a complete newbie once myself. And I have to remember all the idiotic questions I had at he beginning, and the inane beliefs I had....because I just didn't know any better.
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    • Banned




      Ha, ha, that's a good one.

      Did that really happen? Tell the truth.
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  • there was a shift in history, that created this. throughout human history, if your father was a farmer, so were you, if your father was a blacksmith, so were you. And the same held true for women for the most part, if your father was a farmer, you married a farmer, if your father was a blacksmith, you married a blacksmith.

    The biggest split came in the 30's to 50's, what we in the states might call the American dream. Being more than your father. Earning more than your father, Being more successful than your father. The ideals of passing your legacy of your trade to your children are long gone.

    And there you have it... People looking to do, what they know nothing about. They see opportunity. they see an amount of interest. They basically see dollar signs. No where in this do they see the work.

    I grew up literally in a family owned print shop. I went to school for Electronic Engineering. One of my Brothers is a sous chef for Wolfgang Puck My step fathers oldest son.. actually went to school for print management... but alas the electronics age grabbed him, and he is selling text messaging LOL.

    The point being is we ALL are doing things we had no prior knowledge or experience in. It comes down to the ability to take what you DO know, and apply it to what you don't.

    That being said... I would say that society as a whole fails at the family level to share knowledge. So there is a kick ton of inexperienced people roaming the earth striving for unknown dreams.

    Think about College or Uni for a moment.. How, let alone Why can you major in History? or English, or English lit? How does that apply to the electronic age we are in?

    We are failing at the family level, we are failing at the education level, basically our society is failing on so many levels, and we wonder why stupid is rampant? We are witnessing the first couple generations of dreamers that have no base to achieve those dreams. Its not that they are lost, they are simply misguided.

    I see it as a duty, to help those that are lost... it really doesn't take long to see if there is passion for what they are doing vs a quick buck. You want a quick buck? learn to hustle 3 card monte. You want to make a life and fulfill a dream, show up with passion.
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    • I 100% agree, if people are putting in and making a go and want a hand then yes please ask for help and it will come in abundance, and so it should, but there are those who have never even done one thing other than hustle a marketing gig, never lifted one finger, they can not have any passion,they are just seeing $ signs then scream help me, it is that level that at first words muttered who are mostly doomed before they even start, as tomorrow they will off doing the next big shiny dream that people are buying into and the circle of questions continue.

      I suppose the message is if you want to do things like lead gen or anything else, there are now thousands of free informative posts help people can start to learn on their own back, they can ask along the way, they then can start some trials and then if the passion is there start to build a business and get some help.

      But then there are those lazy feckers, not only in this, but life who just sit there and yell out, tell me this, get me that, do this and everything else, that irk bad.
    • I think one has to ask stupid questions.

      Richard Feynmann used to annoy his colleagues by asking them to explain concepts in terms a 6 years old could understand. It sounds idiotic at first but, it's actually a crazy good method to quickly learn complex material fast.

      If somebody fails to explain it in simple terms (or worse, repeat the question in other terms), then there's a chance I've hit upon something difficult (that or my question is boring)

      But assuming it's not,
      if it happens often, chances are my peers also have difficulty with the question and so it gives a possible hint on what might be a real advantage to work on.Just the act of asking general questions also helps to come up with more specific ones which would allow progress.

      If somebody who is very good don't have a good simple explanation after years of experience... then it's likely they themselves don't understand it all that well and no one else does.

      Even though marketing is not exactly rocket science, there are areas where no simple answer exists.
      E.g. A good example in sales, the one thing that doesn't have a simple answer is how to actually do qualification.

      A bit off topic,out of curiosity, are you still mainly working in EE? You always seem to post on a very very broad range of topics.

      Reminds of this quote from Heinlein's Starship troopers:
      "What good is a knife in the age of thermonuclear warfare?"

      I didn't major in either subject, but
      the benefits of history are obvious. It's essentially a tool for political predictions and to understand current culture. It's an infinite buffet with billions of case studies to choose from.

      As for literature...
      One significant difficulty in learning sales (at least to me) is/was the very loose nature of words describing emotions.

      "FEAR" for example can mean anything from a vague unease at the thought of dying, to fear of Claude , to "fear" of missing out on a 25% discount. It's the same word but the emotions are entirely different.

      Can emotions be accurately described? I don't think I've ever seen anyone do it well in marketing, but then few writers can, even very popular ones.

      When I read JK Rowling, I only have a somewhat hazy feeling of what Harry is feeling.

      But when I read Yukio Mishima, it is never in doubt what the characters are experiencing even if he speaks of concepts that have no equivalent in Western culture.

      That is the difference to me between literature and just about any other discipline.

      I think I could become very good at sales simply by a process of A/B testing, reading books, asking questions but I would understand people only at a superficial level and within the confine of my experiences as if I were in a chinese room. At least in my case, if I am to understand human nature, it is likely going to be through literature.
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  • I think that's the answer, right there!

    Someone once said "there's a sucker born every minute." (it was accredited to P.T. Barnum, but I've read multiple biographies that claim he was not the one who actually said it) And con-men have always existed, the internet just makes it easier to reach more people.

    The point is, millions of people are peddling digital "snake oil," claiming they've made it big, and tens of millions are gullible enough to believe there's a magic pill that can make them successful overnight.

    The gullible see other people claiming to be successful and they want a piece of the "easy pie."

    Many of them believe they can "fake it till they make it," usually because some gooroo told them that's how it's done.

    Only after a number of years, do most people begin to realize that running a successful business, online or offline, involves work.

    At that point one of three things usually happens...

    1. Many of them give up, because success only happens to other people. Or it's just too much work, so it's not worth it..

    2. Some of them continue the cycle, by peddling B.S. to the next million people in line. And why not... They spent money money on it, so there's got to be another sucker out there who will pay them, in kind

    3. A few actually decide to learn what it takes to build a legitimate business. And they start learning what they need to know, while learning to identify (and avoid) the scammers.


    Eventually, some of us who've put in the work to create a successful business, find ourselves on a forum. Disgusted and ranting about all the B.S. scammers coming out of the woodwork.
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    • I never thought of it that way but you are 100% correct.

      I remember trying to learn some marketing stuff 7 or 8 years ago on the internet and finding all the guru's and examples being that of marketing marketing.

      It's useful info to a degree but I don't put a lot of stock into people who can only sell crack to addicts.
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    • I think you've uncovered the core of the problem.

      It's not about asking stupid questions, but about wasting time, energy and money, looking for ways to avoid doing the necessary work.

      The main thing missing from today's generation is a work ethic. They don't have one and they don't respect those who do.

      Anyone who is in a position of hiring staff knows this is true.

      A word of warning to the "coddled masses". You are looking at some very hard times down the road.

      Ron
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  • A forum is where we come to discuss our business or business model with like minded people, some have more business experience that others. The newbie wants to find out and learn more about a certain type of online or offline business and as this is a forum they are welcome to ask questions here, be they stupid or not.
    About 6 yrs ago I gathered most of my business information about Offline Lead Generation right here in the Warrior Forum and from WSO's. When I think back, in the earlier days I too was asking stupid questions, and in the end managed to sort out fact from fiction.
  • because it is much easier to exaagerate and lie online than in person. People will never get smart when it comes to falling for scams, because greed and stupidity overtake common sense and reality often.
  • I don't buy that today's generation are coddled or lazy. At least compared to the older generations.

    I used to work as a teller in a canadian bank. After speaking with dozens of seniors with not even 100 k CAD saved up for retirement, this situation is by no means uncommon so

    it begs the question :where have those years of hard work gone by?
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    • Partly, older people think younger people are lazy...because older people have always thought younger people were lazy. You can read ancient Greek manuscripts that talk about the youth being lazy and directionless.

      It's that we all go through phases in our life. Your 80 year old aunt that's all proper and matronly? When she was 20, she was a hottie, and had a reputation. Why? Because when you are 20, that's pretty much the way we are. And when you are 60, you see young people as being lazy.

      Some of it may be that young people are inherently lazier because they are young...or older people just remember being industrious when thy were young.

      But we have been pretty much the same for the last 200,000 years. And in 300,000 years from now, old people will be complaining about young people.

      What's funny to me, is that I can reason that out...and yet still feel the tug of these perceptions....
    • I'm sorry but it's true.

      You don't have to look any further than the number of young people, over 22 years of age, still living with their parents. Even those who've graduated from college.

      This is a new phenomenon and it's viewed as a real problem. That's why it's getting so much attention.

      Millennials get real about moving back in with the 'rents | Lifestyle News for College Students | USA TODAY College


      There are endless posts here from people who are trying to earn $50, $100, $500, whatever amount, this month, online. They're broke, living in someone's basement and they have no work ethic, or shame about it evidently.

      If they did, they'd be out working instead of sitting in front of a borrowed computer whining about being broke.It's not about being lazy. It's about work ethic. The respect a person feels and has for their ability to support and take care of themselves. A sense of independence.

      It's called "being a responsible adult" and it's actually quite normal. Just like learning to walk is normal and a fundamental step toward independence.

      Independence is encouraged and preferred, even for a toddler.

      When I was in high school, even the burnouts had jobs. Some worked double shifts when they could. I did and I worked in a band on the weekends.(underage? yes, but a paid gig, nonetheless.)

      At some point, YOU have to take responsibility for where you are in life.

      The sooner that happens, the better.

      Ron

      P.S. As to where the old people's money went, we have no further to look than Taxes.
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  • I probably was on my own at an earlier age than most and I don't have a problem with people living with their parents longer than before.


    Many cultures have multiple generations living under the same roof. It makes sense financially and is less of a strain on natural resources.
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    So Why Is it?

    Why is it, that if a person was to apply for a normal job, lets say as a baker, that it would be expected that he could then bake. He or she would rock up to work, and pretty well they would start baking, yes? they would not say to the boss, O hang on, let me just log onto the bakers forum and find out how to cook a cake, then send a post out saying guys, just landed my dream gig baking bread and cakes and if I get this right I can make some dough, can you tell me where to start on how to mix flour and water please?