Are there any 9 x 12 guys left here? Postcard marketing?

59 replies
Just got a note from someone who is thinking of getting into the Giant Postcard biz with a guy named Art Gottleib. I remember he used to do the magzines thing with ads. I guess he has switched to 9X12 only now, not sure.

His site, and I have no affiliation with any of the 9x12 guys, is giantpostcardbusiness dot com. I watched his video, read the site, and it just doesn't ring true in my experience.

About 3 years ago, maybe 4 now?, I talked with dozens of guys who were doing the 9x12 thing, it was a hot topic here for a New York minute.

Most of the people I talked to found it to be much harder than the way it was presented, albeit all Biz-Op like to talk about how easy something is to do.

There is nothing easy about calling on businesses and selling them advertising, and although YOUR experience may differ, the vast majority find it to be a grind and then some.

The idea, as presented at this guy's site that you can do a card with 39 ads on them and do 3 or 4 a month, easily, just doesn't make sense to me.

I don't know, maybe he's a super hypnotist, but I've never been able to walk in, hand a sample and without questions, get an order.

I do know some hard working guys who DO sell advertising, on postcards, and via other media, but none of them are coming anywhere near what this guy claims one can do, and in their part time.

Most consistent person I know does one and a half per week, and has for many months. But he has a unique thing going.

I love postcards. I like selling advertising (or did at one point)...and I still keep an eye on Biz-Op, more as a hobby these days...but I have to wonder when I come across something like this. A guy wants $2500.00 to get his "plan" and details on HOW to do it, then gets the printing, has you pay 3700 for the card, anything above that is your profit.

He says there is 4100 dollars of PROFIT per card, and 4 a month is doable part time.

So, honestly, any 9x12 guys left, or is anyone doing anything with selling advertising still? I know we had that discussion last year about the guy doing mobile and remote stuff, but I think that was the last we discussed selling ads.

Since I just got this in my email today, I assume there is a campaign going on and he seems to have dropped his other publishing businesses and is ALL IN on the 9x12.

I have nothing against this guy, don't know him from Adam or Steve, but I did notice his sample cards are made up, in that they have all kinds of phone numbers from across the country on them, a local area card would mostly have the same area codes, right?

I don't think Tony's Pizza in Brookly would be on the same card as a phone company in Manhattan...KANSAS. So the sample cards are not real cards.

IF he had a few cards as sample that actually showed an area where this happened, I'd be more impressed.

So, anyone still doing advertising sales on postcards? Thanks.

GordonJ

PS. On a different note, it appears today that 2500 bucks for a non Franchise Biz-Op is what used to be a 500 dollar one, what have you encountered in Biz Op?
#guys #left #marketing #postcard
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
    The cool kids (successful 9x12 guys and gals) hang out here now-a-days...

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/BobRoss9x12/

    Alex
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    • Profile picture of the author minimax
      I want to publish my banner on mobile signs market, is there any resource?
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      • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
        Originally Posted by minimax View Post

        I want to publish my banner on mobile signs market, is there any resource?
        You might want to consider starting your own thread with an appropriate headline.
        Signature

        "He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.

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        • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
          Originally Posted by OptedIn View Post

          You might want to consider starting your own thread with an appropriate headline.
          Bet me. An answer will appear. From someone in the mobile sign business. I'll even give you odds.

          GordonJ
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          • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
            Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

            Bet me. I'll even give you odds.
            I might be crazy, but I'm not stupid. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
            Signature

            "He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.

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  • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
    Yep, still putting out postcards and other sorts of ad promotions.

    I don't sell anything here, and I'm not looking for attention, so no reason for me to post much about what I'm doing. I post mostly to provide an idea or a different perspective, based on my own experience. If it helps someone great. If not, that's alright, too. The advice is free, you can take or leave it.

    P.S. I don't hang out at any "wannabe" facebook sites. I'm too busy doing it.
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by Ron Lafuddy View Post

      Yep, still putting out postcards and other sorts of ad promotions.

      I don't sell anything here, and I'm not looking for attention, so no reason for me to post much about what I'm doing. I post mostly to provide an idea or a different perspective, based on my own experience. If it helps someone great. If not, that's alright, too. The advice is free, you can take or leave it.

      P.S. I don't hang out at any "wannabe" facebook sites. I'm too busy doing it.
      If you do CO-OP cards, what is the maximum number of advertisers you put on a card?

      As per my OP, this guy says he gets 39 biz card size ads on his 9x12.

      Personally, I think six is the sweet spot on an EDDM card.

      I agree with you about flying low, no need to let anyone know your business, I'm all for that.

      But if anyone is cranking out Co-Op cards more than 1 per week, then maybe I can learn some new tricks. Thanks for your experienced answer.

      GordonJ
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  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
    I'm with Ron on this.. I send out cards... 4 5 6 times a month... invested in all of the equipment needed and produce all of my mailings in house. I don't do the facebook thing either. Its not that I don't have the time LOL.. ok maybe not, For me facebook is a place to spend money ( advertising ) and not spend time.
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    Success is an ACT not an idea
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    • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
      I don't hang out at any "wannabe" facebook sites.
      I don't do the facebook thing either.
      But you hang out here at the Warrior Forum.

      Alex
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      • Profile picture of the author savidge4
        Originally Posted by Alex Cohen View Post

        But you hang out here at the Warrior Forum.

        Alex
        Ahhh very nice.... I used to do facebook... but there is a clear seperation between facebook and Here in terms of getting leads and forming new contacts for business. This platform is far better.
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        • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
          Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

          Ahhh very nice.... I used to do facebook... but there is a clear seperation between facebook and Here in terms of getting leads and forming new contacts for business. This platform is far better.
          Facebook is one of the greatest lead generation platforms ever developed in the history of mankind.

          Alex
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          • Profile picture of the author savidge4
            Originally Posted by Alex Cohen View Post

            Facebook is one of the greatest lead generation platforms ever developed in the history of mankind.

            Alex
            Dont get me wrong.. I do use facebook for just that. well let me rephrase that... I provide services for clients that include lead generation using facebook. Me personally. well me professionally... I cant target enough using facebook to meet my targeting needs.
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      • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
        Originally Posted by Alex Cohen View Post

        But you hang out here at the Warrior Forum.

        Alex
        Yep. Occasionally, I do. Thanks for noticing.

        Ron
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

      I'm with Ron on this.. I send out cards... 4 5 6 times a month... invested in all of the equipment needed and produce all of my mailings in house. I don't do the facebook thing either. Its not that I don't have the time LOL.. ok maybe not, For me facebook is a place to spend money ( advertising ) and not spend time.
      You PRINT in-house? If so, may I ask about the equipment used. Did you buy outright, or are you leasing it? And what is it, make, model all that. Apparently it has a lot of capacity and printing cost is always something we'd like to reduce.

      It also appears to be paying for itself.

      Thanks if you care to share.

      GordonJ
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      • Profile picture of the author savidge4
        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        You PRINT in-house? If so, may I ask about the equipment used. Did you buy outright, or are you leasing it? And what is it, make, model all that. Apparently it has a lot of capacity and printing cost is always something we'd like to reduce.

        It also appears to be paying for itself.

        Thanks if you care to share.

        GordonJ
        Bought it outright... basically stole the thing really. Its a Heidelberg SM 74-2. A sheet fed press runs basically 20x30 inch sheets. I have been looking at a 4 color press. there are some deals to be had on the Heidelberg QuickMaster DI PRO Offset Press. It is actually a pretty slick machine.

        I grew up in a print shop ( almost literally ) and the Family business had only Heidelburg presses, so I am very familiar with them, in terms of use and even maintenance.

        I have a collection of Heidelburg windmill presses as well for die cutting and numbering and the like.

        When I cant run whatever job it is, I have a local pressman that comes in after hours and moonlights for me.... The cost to run 10K sheets 4 color ( on the 2 color press ) is just short of retarded cheap... 2 days at 5 hours at $15.00 an hour, paper, ink and the cost of the plate Im in for $450 ish.

        Its the rest of the equipment that can get you... The cutter ( I have a Polar 45 ) the plate maker etc it does add up. But there is without question something to be said to have the ability to think it, and print it in the same day.. for me.. THAT is priceless! LOL
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        • Profile picture of the author eccj
          Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

          Bought it outright... basically stole the thing really. Its a Heidelberg SM 74-2. A sheet fed press runs basically 20x30 inch sheets. I have been looking at a 4 color press. there are some deals to be had on the Heidelberg QuickMaster DI PRO Offset Press. It is actually a pretty slick machine.

          I grew up in a print shop ( almost literally ) and the Family business had only Heidelburg presses, so I am very familiar with them, in terms of use and even maintenance.

          I have a collection of Heidelburg windmill presses as well for die cutting and numbering and the like.

          When I cant run whatever job it is, I have a local pressman that comes in after hours and moonlights for me.... The cost to run 10K sheets 4 color ( on the 2 color press ) is just short of retarded cheap... 2 days at 5 hours at $15.00 an hour, paper, ink and the cost of the plate Im in for $450 ish.

          Its the rest of the equipment that can get you... The cutter ( I have a Polar 45 ) the plate maker etc it does add up. But there is without question something to be said to have the ability to think it, and print it in the same day.. for me.. THAT is priceless! LOL
          Wow. That's pretty awesome. I hope to get there one day.
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          • Profile picture of the author savidge4
            Originally Posted by eccj View Post

            Wow. That's pretty awesome. I hope to get there one day.
            Printing presses can be found on e-bay for super cheap... Ive actually found a few of my windmill presses on Craigslist for FREE. You can get into a Ryobi or ABDick press for about $1000.00 May not be multi color.. but you just run the sheet through 4 times.. no big deal LOL
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  • Profile picture of the author misterme
    Are there any 9 x 12 guys left here?
    9 inch guy here! Don't know anyone who's 12" though.
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    "Best book on answering objections I have seen... it's for photographers but it has brilliant techniques you can use in any business." - Claude Whitacre. When They Say That, You Say This (Amazon Kindle)
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  • Profile picture of the author smartprofitmoney
    Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

    Just got a note from someone who is thinking of getting into the Giant Postcard biz with a guy named Art Gottleib. I remember he used to do the magzines thing with ads. I guess he has switched to 9X12 only now, not sure.

    His site, and I have no affiliation with any of the 9x12 guys, is giantpostcardbusiness dot com. I watched his video, read the site, and it just doesn't ring true in my experience.

    About 3 years ago, maybe 4 now?, I talked with dozens of guys who were doing the 9x12 thing, it was a hot topic here for a New York minute.

    Most of the people I talked to found it to be much harder than the way it was presented, albeit all Biz-Op like to talk about how easy something is to do.

    There is nothing easy about calling on businesses and selling them advertising, and although YOUR experience may differ, the vast majority find it to be a grind and then some.

    The idea, as presented at this guy's site that you can do a card with 39 ads on them and do 3 or 4 a month, easily, just doesn't make sense to me.

    I don't know, maybe he's a super hypnotist, but I've never been able to walk in, hand a sample and without questions, get an order.

    I do know some hard working guys who DO sell advertising, on postcards, and via other media, but none of them are coming anywhere near what this guy claims one can do, and in their part time.

    Most consistent person I know does one and a half per week, and has for many months. But he has a unique thing going.

    I love postcards. I like selling advertising (or did at one point)...and I still keep an eye on Biz-Op, more as a hobby these days...but I have to wonder when I come across something like this. A guy wants $2500.00 to get his "plan" and details on HOW to do it, then gets the printing, has you pay 3700 for the card, anything above that is your profit.

    He says there is 4100 dollars of PROFIT per card, and 4 a month is doable part time.

    So, honestly, any 9x12 guys left, or is anyone doing anything with selling advertising still? I know we had that discussion last year about the guy doing mobile and remote stuff, but I think that was the last we discussed selling ads.

    Since I just got this in my email today, I assume there is a campaign going on and he seems to have dropped his other publishing businesses and is ALL IN on the 9x12.

    I have nothing against this guy, don't know him from Adam or Steve, but I did notice his sample cards are made up, in that they have all kinds of phone numbers from across the country on them, a local area card would mostly have the same area codes, right?

    I don't think Tony's Pizza in Brookly would be on the same card as a phone company in Manhattan...KANSAS. So the sample cards are not real cards.

    IF he had a few cards as sample that actually showed an area where this happened, I'd be more impressed.

    So, anyone still doing advertising sales on postcards? Thanks.

    GordonJ

    PS. On a different note, it appears today that 2500 bucks for a non Franchise Biz-Op is what used to be a 500 dollar one, what have you encountered in Biz Op?
    Hello,

    Yes we use smart cards, it has built in tracking system, that when the customer gets card, they can check their home value instant, just enter code on website as it says on post card, capture their email also, so we use smart card all the time in Real Estate marketing.

    Hope this helps

    Thanks Rob.
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  • Profile picture of the author StarkContrast
    That Guy's Site (Giant Postcard Business Dot Com) Is Hard To Read. Its Just A Hair Shy of Shouting. And He Goes On For Pages And Pages And Pages.
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  • Profile picture of the author myob
    Still just doing 4 x 6 here. Postcards rock!
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  • Profile picture of the author toneal614
    I saw all of the Arthur Gottlieb videos as well. I personally couldn't see myself paying him almost 3k for information I could accumulate on my own, so that's exactly what I done. First off, 40 business card sized ads don't mathematically fit on a 9x12 postcard. I went with 16 on each side. excluding one spot for postage and one spot for my own advertisement. leaving me with 30 sellable ads. I hired my own designer to do 4 layouts, sent them to a printer and had 500 mockups sent to me. the whole process was very affordable. I also had a sales info sheet and a custom invoice form designed and printed as well. putting these 3 things together accompanied with a business card, I created a media kit. this gives a more professional look as opposed to just walking into a business with only a postcard, as Arthur Gottleib suggests. Its a great business to run. there's no need to pay some guy 3k. you can do it yourself for a portion of the price. Let me know if I can help in any way. Best of luck
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    • Profile picture of the author Dionne Lunden
      i want to start the post card business. can you help me figure this business out?
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      • Profile picture of the author umc
        Originally Posted by Dionne Lunden View Post

        i want to start the post card business. can you help me figure this business out?
        Do research in this sub-forum and read the many posts by a guy that was once here named Bob Ross. Look up 9x12 as well. Just read read read. I don't know what happened to Jake (aka Bob Ross) but he may still sell his system online somewhere.

        Edit to add, he still does have lots of resources at his site highresponsemarketing.com. He had a podcast that I liked listening to. That should be free and can help you get a feel for it if you're serious.
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      • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
        Originally Posted by Dionne Lunden View Post

        i want to start the post card business. can you help me figure this business out?
        There are several types of postcards. But, it really comes down to this;

        Postcard advertising can give you some very FAST MONEY, or,

        they can give you some larger sums, but it takes TIME.

        So... FAST money. Fewer advertisers, fewer cards mailed or printed. In the case of a recurring trade show, as in the Wedding Event example, you have the ability to hook up only two or three advertisers for a fast profit, or you can try to get 12 to 18 on a card and face the 'GRIND'.

        The reference you got to the existing group would be a good place to start. Just keep in mind, you will be SELLING, a little detail that seems to get left out of most of these types of groups.

        Even the people who claim to sit at home and send out email, by the time you factor their time into it, aren't much more than minimum wage workers, but they have their reasons for wanting to stay home, so if it works for them, great.

        Start with your wants, needs. Then learn the COSTS. How much to have the cards printed and the DESIGN costs too, and shipping, and the mailing, if mailed. Who is going to do that, you? If you use EDDM and do it all yourself, factor in the time it takes to bundle the cards and deliver them.

        Sticking points in the biz are:

        Too many ads, can often mean run around, getting proofs, picking up checks, processing credit cards and delivery time.

        I advise you start with maybe 3 or four, no more than that, ads on your first postcard and get your feet wet with a minimum mailing of a few thousand, which means a lot less profit, but as long as you profit, a good learning experience.

        If you have a background in selling advertising, and have connections already in place, then you may just want to dive in if you have the confidence to sell the ads.

        ONE big point. You will not be getting into the postcard business, you will be getting into the SELLING BUSINESS, so how are your sales skills? You will be selling advertrising to businesses which have a LOT of sales resistance built into them, but you need to find this out for yourself, and easy to do with a sample card and a half day of calling on businesses, you'll get the FEEL for it.



        GordonJ
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  • Just my personal view...

    Trying to tie up say 12 ads on one giant postcard is cool.

    But I find it easier doing 12 ads on 12 different postcards.

    Why is that then Steve?

    I like to tell the clients they have their very own, unique and wonderful Advertisng medium.

    Providing the copy, the targeted distribution and the offer is ace - the response usually proves it is.


    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by Steve The Copywriter View Post

      Just my personal view...

      Trying to tie up say 12 ads on one giant postcard is cool.

      But I find it easier doing 12 ads on 12 different postcards.

      Why is that then Steve?

      I like to tell the clients they have their very own, unique and wonderful Advertisng medium.

      Providing the copy, the targeted distribution and the offer is ace - the response usually proves it is.


      Steve
      Anyone selling postcard ads is in effect (and often fact) a print broker.

      Calling on small businesses is a daily grind for many ad salesman. Those still selling 9x12 with 12 to 18 ads, let alone the 39 the guy in the OP claims, know it is not a set it and forget it business and it takes TIME.

      TIME is the issue, and the value one places on his/her hour. If it takes 3 weeks to fill up a 12 slot postcard with co-op ads, many salespeople are not much more than minimum wage employees.

      IF finding those businesses who can AFFORD a stand alone postcard is a relative fast process, then yes, of course, doing those makes more sense (and dollars).

      A few years ago we tested every variation of the co-op ads. But as a "print broker", you can offer upsells or downsells to any given busines you approach, start with their own, and if they balk at cost, a 2 or 3 panel card can be offered, or a 6 ad card...but above 6 ads, the slop and mess begin to seep in.

      Doing one 6 ad card a week for a paycheck of over 1k is very doable for anyone who only wants to spend about 30 hours a week working. Harder workers could do 1.5 cards, or give themselves about a 1500 dollar a week paycheck.

      A smart print broker gets other people to sell the ads and he offers the printing, even better; those who are doing both.

      There are lots of ways to make a paycheck selling ads. But postcards and EDDM make a powerful combination to offer to most small businesses who can simply test the concept via co-op and then try a stand alone. Success with either brings in a repeat customer, and a two month cycle (from our reseach) seems to be the sweet spot for getting renewals. Get to that point where you have several cards at work, and those 30 hours are reduced to 20 and profits soar from there.

      But glad to hear that someone is doing great with stand alone cards. We prefer a mix in order to offer whatever best suits our customers' needs and budget.

      GordonJ
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  • About 35 years ago I did sell advertising.

    Then became a copywriter.

    So, I'm not really "selling" ad space or print (mind you I wouldn't mind having the machine that savidge 4 has).

    I'm just transferring my undying love for phenomenal Postcards and persuading clients and anyone else who'll listen to me to have a bash at using them.

    I guess I'm "selling" the copy to make them as responsive as possible.


    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by Steve The Copywriter View Post

      About 35 years ago I did sell advertising.

      Then became a copywriter.

      So, I'm not really "selling" ad space or print (mind you I wouldn't mind having the machine that savidge 4 has).

      I'm just transferring my undying love for phenomenal Postcards and persuading clients and anyone else who'll listen to me to have a bash at using them.

      I guess I'm "selling" the copy to make them as responsive as possible.


      Steve
      You have EXISTING clients and you offer up a postcard?

      OR, you offer prospects your copywriting service and have them test it out on a postcard?

      It just doesn't make any sense to me, but I could be confused naturally. I think you are either offering postcards to businesses or you are not, could you explain the difference?

      So, maybe, you are offering an advertorial style postcard to your clients, with a strong offer on it and you mail to a list of some kind?

      We don't target anyone who will listen, we prefer a magnetic approach and offer an exclusive area, and easily trackable results with good offers, either as a stand alone as a co-op card.

      I'd love to know more if you are willing to share. Honestly, good copy on a postcard is a very small % of postcards, and most have a time limited offer, a good offer, which allows for analytics of conversions.

      I like advertorials, but they are hard to get to work to an EDDM or mass mailing and are most likely being sent to a very targeted audience. I just don't understand what you are offering.

      GordonJ
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      • Profile picture of the author eccj
        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        You have EXISTING clients and you offer up a postcard?

        OR, you offer prospects your copywriting service and have them test it out on a postcard?

        It just doesn't make any sense to me, but I could be confused naturally. I think you are either offering postcards to businesses or you are not, could you explain the difference?

        So, maybe, you are offering an advertorial style postcard to your clients, with a strong offer on it and you mail to a list of some kind?

        We don't target anyone who will listen, we prefer a magnetic approach and offer an exclusive area, and easily trackable results with good offers, either as a stand alone as a co-op card.

        I'd love to know more if you are willing to share. Honestly, good copy on a postcard is a very small % of postcards, and most have a time limited offer, a good offer, which allows for analytics of conversions.

        I like advertorials, but they are hard to get to work to an EDDM or mass mailing and are most likely being sent to a very targeted audience. I just don't understand what you are offering.

        GordonJ
        Here's my question that I know there isn't an exact answer for.

        All things being equal, am I better off spending a $1,000 on coop mail or $1,000 on solo postcards?

        Not going for exposure but going for response to a simple offer that doesn't need a long sales letter.
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        • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
          Originally Posted by eccj View Post

          Here's my question that I know there isn't an exact answer for.

          All things being equal, am I better off spending a $1,000 on coop mail or $1,000 on solo postcards?

          Not going for exposure but going for response to a simple offer that doesn't need a long sales letter.
          Things are NEVER equal. An attorney has different needs than a pizza shop.

          But, I agree with Ewen, start co-op, test. More important is who is the offer for?

          And if it is being area specific, like the Pizza shop, or more regional, like the lawyer.

          A roofer would do better (as most higher ticket items do) if they have their own card.

          Small businesses with low cost and walk in traffic need exclusivity on the card, only one pizza shop, or just one FOOD offer, unless you're doing a food card to an area saturated with food, then it is just a coupon offer, often a reminder, Hey were here too, don't need to eat burgers when you can have tacos too, type thing.

          A thousand dollars spent on a co-op, depending on number of ads, could go to 10,000 homes and businesses, which is probably overkill for an area pizza joint.

          A thousand dollars on a 6 panel card mailed to 2500 boxes within a mile or so, could get you 6 mails a year, or a combo of "branding" or awareness AND an offer, which can be changed or altered for seasonal specials, they could hit the same area, or there could be a rolling overlap, 1200 to those who rec'd the first one, 1200 to new addresses.

          I will agree with Steve that it depends on the client, or customer, and who his.her TARGET is. A roofer might want to reach all the homes in an older neighborhood, sending a card to a new housing devleopment is folly.

          Begin with the CUSTOMER, THE consumer of the thing, and when dealing with "clients" make sure they know who their target market is, and many don't.

          If you're selling copywriting services, I believe it to be standard operating procedure to gather up all that customer AVATAR info at the start, and many times you'll find your client hasn't done a very good job with that.

          But, the discussion, as I stated in the OP, really isn't about the copy or the offer on the cards, but the selling of ads on a postcard.

          Six slots IS an easier sell than 12 or 18 or (god forbid the 39 claimed by the guy in the OP)...

          Three, two or ONE advertiser on a card, could be, or could not be easier/faster, more effective.

          OF course, if you have copywriting skills and are selling ads on a postcard, you most certainly have a leg up on your competition.

          General rule of thumb (with countless exceptions), is the low cost walk in type business fares well on a co-op area specific postcard....

          Higher priced services and products, or a more regional nature, are better served (with exceptions) with a stand alone card.

          GordonJ
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        • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
          Tried to delete duplicate post SEVERAL TIMES, software glitch? I dunno. GordonJ
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        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
          Originally Posted by eccj View Post

          Here's my question that I know there isn't an exact answer for.

          All things being equal, am I better off spending a $1,000 on coop mail or $1,000 on solo postcards?

          Not going for exposure but going for response to a simple offer that doesn't need a long sales letter.
          I personally believe there is a line in the sand that answers this question. IF you are trying to obtain leads, you go with a co-op. IF you are selling a product, then you go with solo. There are of course certain offers that will cross the line. Trades in general ( Plumber, Electrician, Heating and cooling, etc ) Health and beauty IE tanning salons, nails, hair etc

          I also have clients I do both... use the co-op efforts for branding, and then follow up cards later with a solo offer. Generally speaking the branding effort goes beyond only mailings IE newspaper, Billboards, etc.

          The point has been made... with a co-op your overall reach will be far greater in number BUT with a solo, your target will be far narrower. Keep in mind that Location needs to be a specific demographic point for a focussed solo mailer to work.

          If the offer is just an offer and the recipients location is not a variable... I would go woth a co-op effort.
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  • Most of my clients want website and email copy. Sales letters, press, magazine, facebook ads and on it goes...

    But I do like Phenomenal Postcards (and Fabulous Flyers).

    If I can see a "fit" (aka will Postcards help boost sales - very rare if they don't) I'll suggest them to the esteemed clients - old and new.

    I would never just send them to anyone who'll listen - but I'll happily ramble on about the untold benefits to clients.

    I do use advertorials on Postcards (always useful NOT to make the "Ad" look like an "Ad" and to make the "Ad" itself valuable).

    The copy is important but precise targeting and the "scarcity of the sensational" offer is usually the key to a rip roaring success.


    Steve


    P.S. Modern technology, the interweb and all the social mediums does bring me a sense of wonder.

    But despite exceptional copy and an irresistible offer it can be a huge fuss, take massive chunks of time and often a large expense to get "noticed" amongst all the clutter.

    As I mentioned in an earlier post - a Postcard/Flyer campaign lets me create a unique stand alone advertising medium exclusively for the client - low cost - with no immediate competition - and the Ad goes directly to the best prospects.

    And although it's possible - it is difficult for the specially chosen recipients to fling the card in the trash without at least glancing at the "message."

    Which is of course designed to entice them to read it all - and then the good people know when they respond they'll have great happiness and joy.

    And that is what makes advertising such a pleasure.


    Out of interest - the earliest known picture postcard was sent in 1840, posted in Fulham, London with a penny black stamp. In 2002 in sold for £31,750.00.
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  • Well... you're right, there may not be a definitive answer unless you test both.

    But you must check 2 vital points...

    There should be a greater number of multi - ad cards delivered (if not go solus).

    And you want the assurance there won't be any "competitors" on the card (if not solus it is).


    A multi card does scream - "Look, look, look I'm an Ad so I am!" (but I'm crammed full of great offers).

    And my view still applies difficult to bin it without looking at it.

    But your "message" may not be that noticeable amongst all the others (you could buy the "biggest" space on the card to help get the impact).


    If it was me - and I wanted all the odds in my favour in getting the best response possible - I would be tempted to do a solo card.

    But I am a bit biased.


    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      I'd add to what Steve said.

      If it is an untested offer, use the shared mailer so
      that you have zero dollars invested at risk.

      Once you get responses that turn into money,
      then go solo.

      Best,
      Ewen
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  • Profile picture of the author eccj
    A lot of great info.

    So the co-op is a great way to 1. Test an ad. 2. Do lead gen, especially not location specific. 3. Great for coupon type offers. 4. Contractors who will do follow up mail.

    Otherwise the solo is probably the way to go.

    Some other thoughts I have about this concept from the advertisers perspective;

    It would be awesome if such a thing existed in the local B2B space. We have a few local business publications but nothing like a M6 or a 9x12 in the business space. I don't think we even have a 9x12 in the area.

    The other ads could make a difference in the response rate. I'd imagine that being on a 6 ad postcard with 5 other food offerings would boost response vs being on there with windows, gutters, and car lots.
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by eccj View Post

      A lot of great info.

      So the co-op is a great way to 1. Test an ad. 2. Do lead gen, especially not location specific. 3. Great for coupon type offers. 4. Contractors who will do follow up mail.

      Otherwise the solo is probably the way to go.

      Some other thoughts I have about this concept from the advertisers perspective;

      It would be awesome if such a thing existed in the local B2B space. We have a few local business publications but nothing like a M6 or a 9x12 in the business space. I don't think we even have a 9x12 in the area.

      The other ads could make a difference in the response rate. I'd imagine that being on a 6 ad postcard with 5 other food offerings would boost response vs being on there with windows, gutters, and car lots.
      It isn't talked about enough, but postcards distributed at TRADE SHOWS, to the businesses with booths set up, has done very well too...a very targeted crowd.

      Also, a Co-Op card, because it COULD have great value to the people who attend the show and fill up their plastic bags with all the goodies, and then sort through them later.

      For example, at BRIDAL shows, a co-op is great because it could have 600 dollars of value, say each advertiser offers a 100 buck off or coupon, which could be great for people shopping for bridal services.

      As for your b2b, most Chambers of Commerce, these days have at least a web site, but also many have their own bulleting boards and if you approach these leaders, you could a co-op which goes directly to their members, for services most small businesses need, like insurance and banking needs.

      We've also found success with the LUNCH TIME brown bag workshops, short little 30 minute presentations from business owners too.

      When you do your postcards via EDDM, you can elect to have them delivered to businesses too, and with all food offers, for example, a good idea because most people eat lunch. Not uncommon for lunch rooms to have several menus posted on their bulleting boards...so a coupon postcard, where the ads can be cut out and used as REWARD CARDS (buy 6 subs, get one free sort of thing).

      We're not too far away from seeing the coupon magazines in the mail box, the ValPak type of offers, becoming extinct.

      But postcards are so versatile, it really depends on your imagination, and of course,
      on your purpose and intent.

      Ask youself what you want the postcard to do, often, like a character in a story, it will give the answer you need as to the who, what, where, how and why of the thing.

      GordonJ
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      • Profile picture of the author eccj
        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        It isn't talked about enough, but postcards distributed at TRADE SHOWS, to the businesses with booths set up, has done very well too...a very targeted crowd.

        Also, a Co-Op card, because it COULD have great value to the people who attend the show and fill up their plastic bags with all the goodies, and then sort through them later.

        For example, at BRIDAL shows, a co-op is great because it could have 600 dollars of value, say each advertiser offers a 100 buck off or coupon, which could be great for people shopping for bridal services.

        As for your b2b, most Chambers of Commerce, these days have at least a web site, but also many have their own bulleting boards and if you approach these leaders, you could a co-op which goes directly to their members, for services most small businesses need, like insurance and banking needs.

        We've also found success with the LUNCH TIME brown bag workshops, short little 30 minute presentations from business owners too.

        When you do your postcards via EDDM, you can elect to have them delivered to businesses too, and with all food offers, for example, a good idea because most people eat lunch. Not uncommon for lunch rooms to have several menus posted on their bulleting boards...so a coupon postcard, where the ads can be cut out and used as REWARD CARDS (buy 6 subs, get one free sort of thing).

        We're not too far away from seeing the coupon magazines in the mail box, the ValPak type of offers, becoming extinct.

        But postcards are so versatile, it really depends on your imagination, and of course,
        on your purpose and intent.

        Ask youself what you want the postcard to do, often, like a character in a story, it will give the answer you need as to the who, what, where, how and why of the thing.

        GordonJ
        You mentioned something interesting there; Postcards that are not mailed.

        Have you seen good results for local businesses doing that? I'm guessing businesses leave them at their register or put them in bags for each other???
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        • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
          Originally Posted by eccj View Post

          You mentioned something interesting there; Postcards that are not mailed.

          Have you seen good results for local businesses doing that? I'm guessing businesses leave them at their register or put them in bags for each other???
          In the programs where co-op ads, in several different forms, have been left on counters to be put in bags, on boxes, or in a stand alone display, they haven't worked. We no longer pursue this, but that is just our experience.

          Mostly, had trouble getting the person at the counter to complete the task, making sure their customer got the thing.

          Big difference going into a shop for some fast food, or sitting in a waiting room, and at trade shows and fairs, where people come specifically for what the thing is about.

          Again, only our experience, maybe someone else (who doesn't hawk or tout the thing) has more success. Hope so, but I haven't seen it yet.

          GordonJ
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          • Profile picture of the author eccj
            Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

            In the programs where co-op ads, in several different forms, have been left on counters to be put in bags, on boxes, or in a stand alone display, they haven't worked. We no longer pursue this, but that is just our experience.

            Mostly, had trouble getting the person at the counter to complete the task, making sure their customer got the thing.

            Big difference going into a shop for some fast food, or sitting in a waiting room, and at trade shows and fairs, where people come specifically for what the thing is about.

            Again, only our experience, maybe someone else (who doesn't hawk or tout the thing) has more success. Hope so, but I haven't seen it yet.

            GordonJ
            Makes sense. I can see where it would fall apart with employees.

            The trade show thing is pretty nifty.

            Are you charging for the space on the card at a profit or is it a way for you to get your message out at a trade show?

            I could see a life insurance agent wanting to be on cards at a bridal show where there are 5 other deals for weddings. A lot of people start thinking about buying life insurance when they get engaged/married.

            I can also see why exhibitors would want to be on the card. A lot of these expos are big and busy and it isn't possible to go to every booth, never mind talking to every exhibitor.

            A friend worked a few home shows for solar last year. He got a lot of leads but the leads were there to talk to every solar company and get the best price. I would imagine if they saw a postcard with a solar company on it they would go ahead and add that company to the bidding without ever talking to them or seeing them at the show.
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  • Profile picture of the author cfranks
    I know this is an old conversation but we are looking to delve into the postcard business. We currently have over 20 years selling yellowpages and have lots of established relationships in our markets. Wanted to get opinions, examples, etc... from some of you on here that have had some success with this.
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by cfranks View Post

      I know this is an old conversation but we are looking to delve into the postcard business. We currently have over 20 years selling yellowpages and have lots of established relationships in our markets. Wanted to get opinions, examples, etc... from some of you on here that have had some success with this.
      You are in a good position. HOW can you help those old customers with postcards?

      The many options are: Postcards can be many sizes and shapes. They can have a single advertiser or many who Co-Op the card for a better price.

      They can be sent via mail, by way of lists your clients may already have, or they can localize their cards to certain zip codes and routes nearest their business.

      They can be handed out, at trade shows, or distributed via a central location like supermarket lobbies or a gym, or any locale with a lot of traffic.

      Suggest you begin with what the client wants. They all know the Yellow Pages are dead, or almost so. What do they want to do?

      They can use postcards for single campaigns, an event like President's Day sale, or they can be more of a branding deal.

      Do your clients want people QUICKLY, then an OFFER of some kind, one with a good deal and an expiration date, maybe a BOGO (buy one get one free, or half price) will bring in new or older customers for them.

      Today, it is wise to include the url, or website of the business on the card, it depends on the target market of the business whether this is a good idea or not.

      So, as not to spend all day.

      Step one. Look over your client list.
      Step two. Separate them into different categories.
      Step three. Come up with a couple of choices for them.
      Step four. Present your offers to them, let them pick between two.

      Step five. Rinse and repeat until the cows come home.

      If you have some specific questions, this forum has a lot of expertise in this area, so fire away.

      GordonJ
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    • Profile picture of the author TheBigBee
      Originally Posted by cfranks View Post

      I know this is an old conversation but we are looking to delve into the postcard business. We currently have over 20 years selling yellowpages and have lots of established relationships in our markets. Wanted to get opinions, examples, etc... from some of you on here that have had some success with this.
      9x12 is most effective when used for lead generation vs. being done for profit. With the right offer, you'll earn orders of magnitude more than you would for a completed post card. Joint / co-op / 9x12 marketing has been an absolute BOON for folks in the real estate niche. They charge cost and not a cent more.
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      • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
        Originally Posted by TheBigBee View Post

        9x12 is most effective when used for lead generation vs. being done for profit. With the right offer, you'll earn orders of magnitude more than you would for a completed post card. Joint / co-op / 9x12 marketing has been an absolute BOON for folks in the real estate niche. They charge cost and not a cent more.
        It's not a case of either/or.

        You can and should have upfront profits, while creating back-end from the same ad project.

        I do both, at the same time. So do many others.

        From my experience, the surface has barely been scratched, with regards to the possibilities, in the discussions here.

        Ron
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  • Profile picture of the author cfranks
    I definitely see a lot of confusion my business owners on how to generate customers. Some of them have been in business for so long they have a good repeat clientele but some of them not so much. I want to truly help these businesses out, not make empty promises. I gravitate towards the "deals" aspect as a way of achieving this. What is your luck with this? We are using a postcard printing company to start this but am not sure of how cost effective this is and how good the mailing lists are. Any suggestions on this?
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by cfranks View Post

      I definitely see a lot of confusion my business owners on how to generate customers. Some of them have been in business for so long they have a good repeat clientele but some of them not so much. I want to truly help these businesses out, not make empty promises. I gravitate towards the "deals" aspect as a way of achieving this. What is your luck with this? We are using a postcard printing company to start this but am not sure of how cost effective this is and how good the mailing lists are. Any suggestions on this?
      No offense intended, seriously, but I find it somewhat funny that a YELLOW PAGES salesman who doesn't want to make empty promises. What have you been telling these guys for the last couple of years regarding their spending money on a YP ad?

      Where are the lists generated from? There are thousands of postcard printing companies to choose from.

      We don't use luck as a measurement, I get what you mean, but the whole idea of using a postcard is to be able to track results. It is something that most YP advertisers don't do, they don't really know how much business their ads brought in UNLESS they have a coupon or other tracking device in their ad.

      Suggestions: Same as in my previous post. IDENTIFY your prospects, separate them into categories, even the size of ads they bought in your YP. Who spent the most money?

      It is difficult to put together a plan of action before you know who the players on the field are.

      Another suggestion, study everything you can about EDDM, and contact your local postmaster to see who is in charge of it. It is one of the distribution options you have.

      Some good offers which have worked well for businesses are DEEP discounts, the old loss leader. An example. One auto guy offers a low cost oil change in his area, at 19.95 he is way below the average for his city. He doesn't make much, if any, money from this AD on his postcards, and he uses both single advertiser as well as CO-OP postcards to get his message out.

      He makes money over the lifetime value, and has referral as well as customer reward programs in place. He would be one of those guys who KNOWS what he is doing.

      As you said, many are clueless. You have to educate them on their options, to do so you have to educate yourself and asking here is a good start to that.

      Memorial Day is coming soon, a big postcard day...maybe you can put one or two together to get your feet wet.

      I really didn't understand what your question was. Hope this helps a little.

      GordonJ

      PS. Cost effective is when you set your profit goal, and add that to the costs of the postcard, this is what your advertiser will charge.

      Don't forget design costs too, some printers build this in, others charge extra.
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      • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        Some good offers which have worked well for businesses are DEEP discounts, the old loss leader. An example. One auto guy offers a low cost oil change in his area, at 19.95 he is way below the average for his city. He doesn't make much, if any, money from this AD on his postcards, and he uses both single advertiser as well as CO-OP postcards to get his message out.

        He makes money over the lifetime value, and has referral as well as customer reward programs in place. He would be one of those guys who KNOWS what he is doing.

        As you said, many are clueless. You have to educate them on their options, to do so you have to educate yourself and asking here is a good start to that.

        A great example of Long Term Thinking. The advertiser has a gameplan and a strategy that keeps him/her engaged, over the lifetime of your project.


        Ron
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  • Profile picture of the author cfranks
    LOL! In our small rural markets there is still some usage from our older folks and our customers that our still in our books say they still get calls which we track through call tracking numbers. This combined with a dramatic price drop for our ads has kept it alive up to this point. That being said, it is a dwindling market and can not grow and only decline more and disappear all together. Thus, my reason for looking for something with more validity and effectiveness. You did answer my questions. I was just more or less wanting to know any tips or tricks from anyone with experience with this specific type of advertising.
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by cfranks View Post

      LOL! In our small rural markets there is still some usage from our older folks and our customers that our still in our books say they still get calls which we track through call tracking numbers. This combined with a dramatic price drop for our ads has kept it alive up to this point. That being said, it is a dwindling market and can not grow and only decline more and disappear all together. Thus, my reason for looking for something with more validity and effectiveness. You did answer my questions. I was just more or less wanting to know any tips or tricks from anyone with experience with this specific type of advertising.

      You have an asset. Your list of previous advertisers. Now you want to help them continue to advertise their businesses outside of YP. And you want them to benefit from your help.

      Where do people in your rural area go out to eat? Any local restaurants?

      A popular restaurant gives YOU a lot of potential to convert your asset into a Win/Win/Win for all parties. Here are a few ways.

      Daily special menu boards. You give these for free to the restaurants, and today, they like very lightweight boards which are easy to change, and then you offer ADS on the board. You could offer the ad for the year, your clients are used to paying that way, or you could do a quarterly or half a year offer.

      You could offer free mugs and glasses to the restaurant, again, with ads on them.
      Same with placemats, you give them for free to the restaurant and run ads on them.

      Some give out free crayons to kids, and the little box of crayons has a business card on it, some clever dentist might want this slot.

      Now, along with a daily specials menu board, these erasable signs, either dry erase or chalk boards, can be used by many businesses, and the same concept applies.

      You find a HOST, like the restaurant. Maybe a dry cleaner, or in the rural areas, the most popular hardware store, or gas station. Some place the locals go to.

      You give the host a sign, or it could be flyer, and you offer ads to your lists.

      Also, where do your people go for trade shows, usually the biggest city near by, will have bridal shows, car shows, home and garden, RV, Boats, etc. trade shows every year.

      Bridal shows are great. You give a postcard to one vendor, and then you have ads on the back of the card, and with discounts, all the advertisers add up to a "keeper" for the people attending the show.

      You have a valuable asset today, BUT, you need to have some options for them in the coming days, and along with some great print ideas, you may want to transition into offering some Internet Marketing/Promotions too.

      Lot of things you could do. You know these people run ads, so that is probably the path of least resistance. Let me know if you need some samples of any or one of these ideas, OK?

      GordonJ

      PS. Many areas are replacing YP books with small DIRECTORIES. Same thing. Only 20 or so pages, full of ads. It may be a good idea for rural areas, a hard hand held copy, but NOT the yellow pages.
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  • Profile picture of the author MoverGuy42
    For my moving business, I created a flyer, then shrunk it down to business card size.

    I placed my cards in about 50 local businesses (with holder). That brings in at least 5-6 moving jobs per week for my guys.
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  • Profile picture of the author georgebizpro
    Who do folks use as their postcard supplier? Do you usually buy the mailing lists yourself, or do you work with the printing companies? Would love a recommendation for affordable solution, when I've looked into postcard providers in the past it always seemed pretty expensive because of the minimum order quantity, buying the mailing list, setup fees etc. it was pretty high.
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by georgebizpro View Post

      Who do folks use as their postcard supplier? Do you usually buy the mailing lists yourself, or do you work with the printing companies? Would love a recommendation for affordable solution, when I've looked into postcard providers in the past it always seemed pretty expensive because of the minimum order quantity, buying the mailing list, setup fees etc. it was pretty high.
      What is affordable to you?

      Are you using or wanting to use postcards for your own business? OR do you plan to broker POSTCARDS to other businesses?

      Using words like pretty expensive, pretty high, and you want something affordable doesn't help us because we don't know your intent.

      A local biz, say a pizza shop, could do a test EDDM postcard mailing to 200 addresses in their neighborhood for about a buck a piece. That would include postage and design. But if you want to mail to pizza shops across the country, then you add the list price, and depending on SELECTS, it could be anywhere from 1.25 to 2.00 to mail the same 200 postcards.

      ECONOMIES do come into play in this biz, the more you order, the cheaper the printing. If EDDM, you simply add on the postage to the costs, but don't forget delivery. IF you deliver the cards to your post office, in the EDDM case, you save some money but now are spending time which could be put to better uses.

      Once you have a clear idea, on what you intend or want to do, then maybe we can make some suggestions to you.

      Affordable to me, is measured by my return on the investment, and even then, it could be up to the biz I'm working with. Some just want some branding, others a current offer, and others still an ongoing program or multi-marketing platform.

      What do you want the postcard to do?

      GordonJ
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  • Profile picture of the author Tallhorse
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    • Profile picture of the author animal44
      Originally Posted by Tallhorse View Post

      Anyway, do you need to actually own a business yourself to use the "host" or "referral" approach?
      My main business is built around being a middleman in host/beneficiary, putting a list owner together with a product owner. Though I'd suggest 9x12 is not the way to go about this...
      I'd start with email. It's not difficult to beat the results of the average small business and you can send a sequence at no extra cost = increased results.

      Originally Posted by Tallhorse View Post

      Maybe I've been reading too much and have information overload, but I'm stuck on seeing how I could use this approach to help other businesses. Unless I'm just playing the middleman, in which case, they could easily just cut me out and go to the "hosts" themselves.
      They won't. Or some might, however, few will succeed. They just don't have the time, knowledge or (usually) the inclination.
      Most small businesses could do their taxes themselves, but they don't. Instead they pay an accountant.
      All you have to do is show them they're better off with you than without you...

      One of our early host beneficiary clients both attended a workshop I ran. They found each other there, however they got us to put the deal together because they didn't really know how to go about it. That was 2013, and they're both still part time clients.

      Originally Posted by Tallhorse View Post

      And I'm 100% open to other suggestions on using direct mail also.
      For direct mail, we use letters rather than postcards. And focused on one business/product only.
      A letter lets you sell the product and the business far better.
      The 9x12, any individual ad tends to be lost. And you can only say so much on a postcard (or a portion of a postcard).
      Cost is not a factor if you can show you get results.

      But as I said, start with email - no up front cost and a sequence will get you better response. Once you have a proven campaign, you can test it out as a direct mail campaign.
      And once you have documented results, it's real easy to sell it to new clients.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tallhorse
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        • Profile picture of the author animal44
          Originally Posted by Tallhorse View Post

          I'm a little lost. Start with an email to get potential clients you mean?

          Otherwise using email I would need a list of prospects for the businesses.
          Sorry. When someone mentions host beneficiary or similar, it gets me rambling...

          If you want to help local businesses then brokering deals between two parties is the way to do it. Advertising one business's products to another non competing business's list will get you far better results than a 9x12.

          And if you charge a commission on each sale, you make loads more money. Far more than if you sold 9x12 ads, and with far less work.

          It's easier to start by taking over email marketing for a business. Offer some deal of their products to their own customers. It's easy to outperform the business owner's efforts because usually they just announce their latest sale or new products. You can focus on the problems people have or the results they want from buying the product and get far better results.

          Once you've established you can get results, then introduce the host beneficiary deals with other non competing businesses. You can use the same email campaign(s) you used for the in house list.

          You could start with direct mail, however the risk is higher due to higher cost. Hence adapting a successful email campaign to direct mail to reduce that risk.
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  • Profile picture of the author Shivanandaguruji
    EDDM will mail to every address in your selected postal route(s). One important caveat is that USPS does not actually print marketing materials. To use EDDM, you'll need to print postcards yourself (e.g. using Vistaprint or PSPrint shipped to your door) and then drop them off at the post office.
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  • Profile picture of the author rmotion
    Ah this is great. I did find this large post card business awhile ago and have been tweaking the idea to fit the Real Estate Broker model.- Have Agents Co-op advertise with other businesses.
    Direct Mail is effective, disruptive and if done cost effectively and consistently gets results.
    The Co-Op model does seem easier than reality. Its a grind to sell this kind of advertising - Look at ValPak this is a huge company and they mail out millions of these envelopes But as Art is saying in his videos most of those never get opened the giant post cards get looked at and are disruptive marketing. Online advertising [Google and FB] are super targeted and effective the only problem is its saturated, infinitely expansive and that all makes it expensive and most Pizza shop owners dont have the time and resources to effectively market this way. A coupon in the mail is simplistic and effective all things considered.
    The only downside with this Large card is your message is lost somewhat in the mix of other ads.EDDM you can get a pretty large card 11x17 [doubles and opens up ] You can do 40 page booklets through EDDM and basically put every business in town in there for $100 or something.
    If you can make an affordable way for a small business to advertise and it works then that is printing gold and if you can have an upsell offer [other printing, website, seo, FB ads or what have you] it could be a great marketing plan.
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by rmotion View Post

      Ah this is great. I did find this large post card business awhile ago and have been tweaking the idea to fit the Real Estate Broker model.- Have Agents Co-op advertise with other businesses.
      Direct Mail is effective, disruptive and if done cost effectively and consistently gets results.
      The Co-Op model does seem easier than reality. Its a grind to sell this kind of advertising - Look at ValPak this is a huge company and they mail out millions of these envelopes But as Art is saying in his videos most of those never get opened the giant post cards get looked at and are disruptive marketing. Online advertising [Google and FB] are super targeted and effective the only problem is its saturated, infinitely expansive and that all makes it expensive and most Pizza shop owners dont have the time and resources to effectively market this way. A coupon in the mail is simplistic and effective all things considered.
      The only downside with this Large card is your message is lost somewhat in the mix of other ads.EDDM you can get a pretty large card 11x17 [doubles and opens up ] You can do 40 page booklets through EDDM and basically put every business in town in there for $100 or something.
      If you can make an affordable way for a small business to advertise and it works then that is printing gold and if you can have an upsell offer [other printing, website, seo, FB ads or what have you] it could be a great marketing plan.
      It "can be" a grind, if you choose to make it so. Just this month I heard from a guy who finally finished his first 9 x 12 card, because he was determined to get the 14 ads on the card, he got 12 and had to get er done, after more than 2 months of GRINDING.

      I hope he gets his next one done much faster. But, most of those guys are stubborn, and fall in love with the idea, and commit to their guru, whomever it might be.

      Real Estate Co-Op cards are easy to do, if you limit the number of ads. But what I like about any and all LOCAL ADVERTISING, including the JV or Host - Beneficiary model which the Animal continuously harps on...is

      SPEED.

      I didn't like to GRIND when I was active. So, don't make it one. HOW?

      Offer fewer ads for more targeted traffic. Different media. Take REALTORS. If they have a good listing, and are doing an Open House, why not give away a magnet of the house, surrounded by lenders (banks), mortage companies, insurance, moving, etc. All things a house buyer needs. And they have a reminder on their fridge.

      Today, a giant postcard, can have a strip magnet easily put on it too. OR, there could be a display, like a modern chalk board (light weight, colorful) in the entrance with various business cards, or a co-op postcard attached to it, the visitor to the open house can take home. Beats cookies in the oven.

      Same with selling advertising to local businesses. There are those who will do their own EDDM mailing, doesn't have to be co-op. Get those done in a DAY, MAYBE just an hour or two. Get your MONEY quickly.

      Why not just put 3, 4, 5 or 6 ads on a Co-Op card, send fewer out, but to a more targeted area, and get faster turnover??? All of these things are being done TODAY.

      Making anything a GRIND, to me means, "I haven't explored or found a way to be more efficient."

      So, E X P L O R E the many different ways to make your moolah FASTER and less of a grind.

      It really isn't that hard. Small businesses are spending more money on advertising today than at any other time in history. IF you can help them, HELP THEM, but do it quickly.

      Don't GRIND at it.

      GordonJ
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