Getting into Lead Generation

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Hi. I am a web designer that is getting into lead generation. I have read many great posts on here about lead generation and I really appreciate all the help this forum gives those of us that are learning.

My question is this. What would be a good first niche local business to start with for lead generation. I want to build a good website like mycitynamebusinesstype.com and then use what I have learned in web design to rank it well and then when leads do come in then try to either rent the website out for a monthly fee or just sell the leads for a fee per lead. My town is not very small but it is not big either and there is not a lot of competition for many types of business and I have noticed in building websites for local businesses that I have been able to rank them well with minimum effort so I figure that lead generation would be a great way to get some recurring revenue.

I was thinking of starting with something like roofing. I want something that does not have a ton of corporate branch type competition and also one that each sale they do is large enough for the business to be willing to pay a decent fee per lead or to rent the website. If you think I should start with a different kind of local business please any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
#generation #lead
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  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
    Originally Posted by TheTwoPointZero View Post

    Hi. I am a web designer that is getting into lead generation. I have read many great posts on here about lead generation and I really appreciate all the help this forum gives those of us that are learning.

    My question is this. What would be a good first niche local business to start with for lead generation. I want to build a good website like mycitynamebusinesstype.com and then use what I have learned in web design to rank it well and then when leads do come in then try to either rent the website out for a monthly fee or just sell the leads for a fee per lead. My town is not very small but it is not big either and there is not a lot of competition for many types of business and I have noticed in building websites for local businesses that I have been able to rank them well with minimum effort so I figure that lead generation would be a great way to get some recurring revenue.

    I was thinking of starting with something like roofing. I want something that does not have a ton of corporate branch type competition and also one that each sale they do is large enough for the business to be willing to pay a decent fee per lead or to rent the website. If you think I should start with a different kind of local business please any advice would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks!
    When dealing with trades... and in this case we will say roofers... make a list of all of the roofers you see in the papers.. in the newspaper, on craigslist etc.. try and find ALL of them... at about 10 or 11 am start calling them.. see who actually answers the phones.. and just tell them oh sorry wrong number.

    This does a few things for you, It creates a far more targeted and reachable target list, AND it removes any of the dead weight that once you get into an agreement with them that wont fall back and say oh we didnt get that many calls or your sending bad leads ( because they are not dealing with the leads in a timely manor ) or any of the other crap.

    So now you have a good target list. Start looking in the paper for ads. Start looking to see if they are running online ads, see if they are in the 3 pack.. and create a even shorter list placing these companies on the top. These are going to be your primary targets that are going to understand the value in what you have to offer - you are wanting to avoid people like this:


    Now before all of this you have to understand what to charge for a lead, or for the site. You must know someone that is a roofer, OR you know someone that knows someone that is a roofer. and you can ask these kinds of questions.

    A little bit of an added bonus tip, the closer the person you are going to rent or sell leads to from you personally IE you actually know the roofer, or you have a friend that knows the roofer, you can work out a percentage deal.. 10% of the cost of the job or the like. The further extended you are from the provider of service the harder this becomes to track you are actually getting paid for the leads they close

    Hope that Helps
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    • Profile picture of the author Sid Owsley
      Great, I'm making note of your idea myself.

      Thanks for sharing!
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  • Profile picture of the author TheTwoPointZero
    Thank you for the advice. I think that is a great idea that I had not thought of to test out the responsiveness of each roofing business before I pick one. I do not personally know any roofers but I will keep that in mind. I am not 100% decided yet on if I will do roofing first or try something else. I want my first niche business that I try ths for to be really easy to get into even if it does not generate a lot of money per lead. I want to prove the model before I start investing heavily in the time I put into building and ranking different websites.

    What does everyone think is the easiest niche type of business to rank and rent or sell leads to? It does not have to generate a lot of money but I want to prove it works as quickly and easily as possible then move on to harder and more lucrative types of businesses. Thanks!
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  • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
    A Colorado painter gets 42 phone calls in 14 days
    requesting price estimates, 15 calls the first day,
    got $16,000 paid for and still had
    more than 50%
    of those calls to visit.

    My question is...

    What if you could produce stellar results like it,
    and cost you ZERO DOLLARS to produce,
    just a short amount
    of grunt work
    on the front end?

    Best,
    Ewen
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    • Profile picture of the author TheTwoPointZero
      Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

      A Colorado painter gets 42 phone calls in 14 days
      requesting price estimates, 15 calls the first day,
      got $16,000 paid for and still had
      more than 50%
      of those calls to visit.

      My question is...

      What if you could produce stellar results like it,
      and cost you ZERO DOLLARS to produce,
      just a short amount
      of grunt work
      on the front end?

      Best,
      Ewen
      Thank you for your reply. I would of course be interested. I do not know what you are talking about though?
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      • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
        Originally Posted by TheTwoPointZero View Post

        Thank you for your reply. I would of course be interested. I do not know what you are talking about though?
        Looks like you are fixated on the media,
        not the results you can give a lead partner.

        That painter result I mentioned
        didn't come from digital media..

        Now this is the test for you...

        Do you really want to get into the lead generating business?

        I ask because if you wanted to be a real pro at it,
        you'd wouldn't care about the media,
        so long as you produced easy to convert leads that your lead partners love.
        and do it profitably.

        You are solving biz problems so you get paid.

        Then you can go have fun with the money and time.

        Most pros who sell leads to businesses
        and I'm talking the biggest players like Home Advisor,
        down to million dollar per year players don't know how to turn paid media
        into free media to generate leads.

        That is the type of advantage you should be going in with
        or you are just another supplier of leads.

        Paid media is what gives you the ability to scale,
        which means your profits aren't eaten away by complexity
        when building out digital assets.

        Best,
        Ewen
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        • Profile picture of the author TheTwoPointZero
          Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

          Looks like you are fixated on the media,
          not the results you can give a lead partner.

          That painter result I mentioned
          didn't come from digital media..

          Now this is the test for you...

          Do you really want to get into the lead generating business?

          I ask because if you wanted to be a real pro at it,
          you'd wouldn't care about the media,
          so long as you produced easy to convert leads that your lead partners love.
          and do it profitably.

          You are solving biz problems so you get paid.

          Then you can go have fun with the money and time.

          Most pros who sell leads to businesses
          and I'm talking the biggest players like Home Advisor,
          down to million dollar per year players don't know how to turn paid media
          into free media to generate leads.

          That is the type of advantage you should be going in with
          or you are just another supplier of leads.

          Paid media is what gives you the ability to scale,
          which means your profits aren't eaten away by complexity
          when building out digital assets.

          Best,
          Ewen
          Thank you for your reply. Are you talking about mailing out postcards or something like that? Or cold calling to generate leads?
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          • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
            Originally Posted by TheTwoPointZero View Post

            Thank you for your reply. Are you talking about mailing out postcards or something like that? Or cold calling to generate leads?
            Which is more scalable...that is your answer.

            Best,
            Ewen
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            • Profile picture of the author TheTwoPointZero
              Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

              Which is more scalable...that is your answer.

              Best,
              Ewen
              I imagine you mean cold calling. I really do not like cold calling. I am not saying I am unwilling to do it but I was hoping for a more hands off approach like building ranked websites would give me. Thank you very much for the advice though and I will keep it in mind but for now I think I am going to try the website route.
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              • Profile picture of the author eccj
                Originally Posted by TheTwoPointZero View Post

                I imagine you mean cold calling. I really do not like cold calling. I am not saying I am unwilling to do it but I was hoping for a more hands off approach like building ranked websites would give me. Thank you very much for the advice though and I will keep it in mind but for now I think I am going to try the website route.
                Think about the question some more.
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                • Profile picture of the author TheTwoPointZero
                  Originally Posted by eccj View Post

                  Think about the question some more.
                  I am sorry but I do not know what you mean.
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              • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
                Originally Posted by TheTwoPointZero View Post

                I imagine you mean cold calling. I really do not like cold calling. I am not saying I am unwilling to do it but I was hoping for a more hands off approach like building ranked websites would give me. Thank you very much for the advice though and I will keep it in mind but for now I think I am going to try the website route.
                Cold calling isn't more scalable than direct mail these days.

                Looking for the "easy way" isn't what the wealthieast people on the planet do.

                How difficult it would it be to build Amazon's infrastructure?

                Jeff Bezos sucked it up and now is the wealthiest man.

                The top 5 most valuable companies on the planet,
                4 of them own the media platform others advertise on.

                Google, Facebook, Amazon, Apple play store.

                Own your own advertising media platform
                first then you can do lead generation for others,
                paid to advertising on the media, cut of the sale.

                Shared postcards give you that ability

                Plus a long list of benefits.

                Not owning the media
                puts you in a disadvantage going in.

                Using digital platforms have suduced a whole generation
                of so called quick and easy .

                What is lost is what are you trying to achieve.

                I helped one guy out in California who was in a group of lead generators for local clients.

                They are all in group think of using either Google or Facebook
                and playing by their ever-changing rules.

                Showed him to owning the media and have others pay
                for his lead generation efforts so he never carried media buys.

                He was carrying thousands in media buys because
                lead partner was slow in paying.

                Moved him over to him owning the paid media
                in which other advertisers cover all costs before
                going to print and mail.

                A Colorado property investor got other local businesses to fund his mail camaign.

                One of the advertisersa painter got 43 phone calls in 14 days,
                15 on the first day.

                A friend in Up State New York
                Built his window and siding replacement businesss on
                a pizza store and liquor store funding
                his direct mail camaign
                every month for years.

                Look, just because you can do something then turn it into
                a business doesn't make it a good decision.

                Best,
                Ewen
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                • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                  Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

                  Look, just because you can do something then turn it into
                  a business doesn't make it a good decision.
                  I totally get what you are saying here.. yes mail is scalable in oh so many ways... but like other recent threads we fall onto a persons network and the effectiveness of selling such services. Can he try this with his existing clients and maybe piggy back some new ones off the efforts.. I am sure he could.... but we are left with the weakness.. "I dont like cold calling"

                  From my own experience... I can without question say that my confidence level is through the roof when I approach new clients about web design... it is basically my goto key to the empire.. Once that is done then the rest of my services fall into place. A single point of success followed by point after point of successes. as I quoted here: https://www.warriorforum.com/offline...l#post11391987 Aristotle - "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit."

                  We as what I will call Senior mebers of this forum think we are serving the readers by offering the paths of least resistance and most probable success... but the truth is we are diluting the strengths the OP has, and suggesting things they have no clue about.. Yes to US, Mail is for sure a choice... but to the OP the strength lies in the media at hand, and thats websites.

                  I will come out and say.. and I have said before... The lead site model is not something I do... Its just a path filled with arguements waiting to happen... BUT, there are threads here that showcase success.. and thats great... it just wasnt successful for me.. Id rather build a bridge than burn one.
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                  • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
                    Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                    but to the OP the strength lies in the media at hand, and thats websites.
                    Once again, just because he can
                    doesn't mean the business community will value it.

                    There are amazing artists,
                    but their artwork doesn't support them.

                    For most local businesses that draw their clientele from a small radius
                    around their store or travel to go to the job,
                    they either want an incoming phone call
                    or a walk in.

                    What gets lost by Internet marketers is that the means to those 2 most desired outcomes is irrelavent.

                    A bit like the guy doesn't want a drill,
                    he doesn't even want the hole to hang up his wifes mirror,
                    he really wants to go fishing and drinking with his buddies.

                    If you get the painter 43 phone calls in 14 days who want to price a job
                    and it cost you zero dollars to produce, can repeat it over again
                    you aren't likely to get that kind of result by any other means.

                    So why would you try ?

                    The BIG PROBLEM i see is people get caught up by the means to the
                    desired outcome.

                    When one way to get the end result is proven to out-perform others
                    it gets dismissed because all sorts of loser talk.

                    Just because you don't know how to do something
                    haven't done it before, the crowd aren't doing it,
                    doesn't mean you dismiss learning...
                    otherwise all adults would be still crawling.

                    Best,
                    Ewen
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    • Profile picture of the author zoro
      Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

      A Colorado painter gets 42 phone calls in 14 days
      requesting price estimates, 15 calls the first day,
      got $16,000 paid for and still had
      more than 50%
      of those calls to visit.

      My question is...

      What if you could produce stellar results like it,
      and cost you ZERO DOLLARS to produce,
      just a short amount
      of grunt work
      on the front end?

      Best,
      Ewen
      Whilst I do like the kind of offline marketing (postcards) you suggest, I think the hardest part for many, is the going out and selling it to local business owners.
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  • Profile picture of the author ryanbiddulph
    Whatever niche you:

    - feel passionate about
    - feel knowledgeable about
    - know resonates with your local area

    is the niche to choose. With your passion and knowledge you have the insight to create helpful content, helpful content being a prime lead generator. Plus you will enjoy the ride. If you know locals need this service, you know they will pay for it.

    Ryan
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by ryanbiddulph View Post

      Whatever niche you:

      - feel passionate about
      - feel knowledgeable about
      - know resonates with your local area

      is the niche to choose. With your passion and knowledge you have the insight to create helpful content, helpful content being a prime lead generator. Plus you will enjoy the ride. If you know locals need this service, you know they will pay for it.

      Ryan
      Passion has nothing to do with this aspect of business... this is having the technical where with all to get results. I personally am spread across so many niche verts its not even funny, and I cant say that I am "Passionate" about 2 many of them.. the passion for me is the building - the site, the traffic flow, and the profit for my clients.. I could really care less what my clients does, its simply my job to make them money, and in turn I make money.

      And again here... I can build a site that is pretty much void of "helpful content" Content is a factor, but VERY SMALL when you are looking for the 3 pack in local SEO.

      Maybe you should follow your own advice and shy away from local SEO questions.. it is obviously not a passion.. and not a great center of knowledge for you.
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      • Profile picture of the author TheTwoPointZero
        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        Passion has nothing to do with this aspect of business... this is having the technical where with all to get results. I personally am spread across so many niche verts its not even funny, and I cant say that I am "Passionate" about 2 many of them.. the passion for me is the building - the site, the traffic flow, and the profit for my clients.. I could really care less what my clients does, its simply my job to make them money, and in turn I make money.

        And again here... I can build a site that is pretty much void of "helpful content" Content is a factor, but VERY SMALL when you are looking for the 3 pack in local SEO.

        Maybe you should follow your own advice and shy away from local SEO questions.. it is obviously not a passion.. and not a great center of knowledge for you.
        Thank you for your reply. I agree with you completely on this. My passion comes from making my clients beyond happy with my work and making them money which I would hope in turn would make me money. I need to get into recurring revenue instead of constantly having to chase down web design clients. I do not know enough about SEO to offer monthly SEO services to clients which is why I thought lead generation would be the way to go for me.

        I know enough to research and write keyword rich content for most kinds of local businesses and then use what I know of on page SEO to rank the website well. Out of all the niches you have worked with. If you were going to start again and start with just one niche which one would you pick that I might see quick results with and is easy to sell to the type of business? Which one would you do first? Think roofing is a good one to start with or do you think something else would be better? I am eventually going to branch out into lots of different types of businesses but I would really love to start with one that I may see results earlier on with even if it is not a lot of money I just want to see it generate some money and not be hard to sell to the client.
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    • Profile picture of the author TheTwoPointZero
      Originally Posted by ryanbiddulph View Post

      Whatever niche you:

      - feel passionate about
      - feel knowledgeable about
      - know resonates with your local area

      is the niche to choose. With your passion and knowledge you have the insight to create helpful content, helpful content being a prime lead generator. Plus you will enjoy the ride. If you know locals need this service, you know they will pay for it.

      Ryan
      Thank you for your reply. Like Savidge said I hope that I would not need to be passionate about the type of business. Like he mentioned my passion comes from making my clients money which in turns makes me money. With web design I am very proud of the websites I build for clients especially when they are extremely happy with them which most are.

      I want to turn my passion for web design and while I am not a SEO expert my web design work has given me a decent amount of knowledge of different things I can do with on page SEO to help rank and my town is the perfect size I think to do some great work with lead generation. Not too large to have a ton of competition and still big enough to make some money.
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    • Profile picture of the author chuckholmes
      I do a lot of content marketing. One tip that I have found to be extremely helpful is to repurpose my content into multiple formats. For example, I take a blog post and convert it to a podcast, slideshare and video. Each of these links to each other and typically rank high in the search engines. Food for thought.
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      • Profile picture of the author homeriscool
        do you just use the content as is? or do you rewrite it?
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  • Profile picture of the author nickyz1
    there so many small businesses to start with. It's best to research your area well and find out which one you can go with
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    • Profile picture of the author TheTwoPointZero
      Originally Posted by nickyz1 View Post

      there so many small businesses to start with. It's best to research your area well and find out which one you can go with
      My area has pretty much most of the types of niches. I was just wondering if those experienced with lead generation had a go to that they would suggest to try first. I know many different kinds of businesses would fit well with it. I just want to hit the ground running and was hoping someone may have a recommendation on a specific niche they would target first if they were doing it all over again.
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  • Profile picture of the author TheTwoPointZero
    Savidge. I replied to your post but for some reason WF marked it as spam and I am waiting for a moderator to post it.
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  • Profile picture of the author TheTwoPointZero
    Thank you for the replies. I see the value in what you are talking about Ewen. It is not that I do not want to do hard work and am only looking for the easy thing to do. I think you may be talking about doing direct mail where one client pays for the direct mail and you piggy back on the back of the post card. I see the value in that and it definitely may be something I do in the future. For now I only want to do lead generation through a ranked website.

    When I mentioned I was looking for something easy I am only saying I want my first one to be an easier niche to start with. I definitely plan to go after harder ones later but for now I was asking if anyone with experience with rank and rent or selling website leads knew of one particular local business type that was one of the easier ones to sell leads to. I am not only going to go after easy but I want my first one to be easier if there is even such a one.

    My thinking was someone here may have tried several niches for this and tried different niches like landscaping or painting or window replacement or roofing and of the ones they had tried they knew that one of the niches was easier to sell leads for than the rest.

    I am not looking for the easy way out just an easy entrance into the space so that once that first one is successful I feel confident and can put a lot more time and effort into it instead of spending that time looking for web design clients.
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    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      Originally Posted by TheTwoPointZero View Post

      For now I only want to do lead generation through a ranked website.
      Why?

      Best,
      Ewen
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      • Profile picture of the author savidge4
        Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

        Why?
        I can answer this with 1 word... Knowledge. He has the technical where with all to make this happen. So asking him to write copy.. and to design graphics, and do layout, and get a mailing list, and get cards printed.. seems daunting no? And yeah stretch your limits and learn new stuff... BUT at whos expense?

        He can try this at his expense for his personal efforts..and if he fails once twice three times before getting positive results... there is not 1 person 2 people or 3 that tell 10 people that tell 10 people what crappy results they got from a mailer. Again something I say and do all the time.. do for yourself before you unleash it as a service you provide for others.

        So lets make a point here... lets use someone elses words and research: https://shibga.com/roofing-contractor-marketing/ So for Brooklyn NY there are roughly 1000 searches made for a local roofer every month. ( found in the find out demand section ) we then can further read that 65% - of the 1000 will click on a link in the 3 pack ( Found right above the does it work? section ) with another 25% going to organic search and then Ads falling into last place ( PPC is so awesome, NOT ) with 10 to 15%

        Thats 650 clients spread across 3 links.. averge thinking suggests 400 to #1 200 to #2 and then maybe 50 to #3... but as we all know there are variables at play here.. like link copy.. or something that was brought up before.. do they actually answer the phone. What gets interesting here.. 400 calls in a MONTH.. vs 43 in 14 days

        So when we start talking about " Scale " and bringing things up a notch, in local search and local search specifically, the 3 pack is king.... PPC is abolute junk, and mailers fall somewhere in the middle. ( but comparing numbers right now 400 vs 43 - mailers fall closer if not even to PPC efforts, making organic results somewhere in the middle. )

        So from a numbers standpoint in most given markets it can be said that a 3 pack plus a high placed organic with good solid link text SHOULD be the dominate method of advertising AT SCALE.

        And right after saying that... I work SMALLER markets for the most part, where placing your eggs in one basket is probably not advised, and my practice is mutiple points of contact to bring that scale.

        *** Ewen I respect you greatly, and I HATE pushing discussion with you.. you are invaluable to our community... but as much as you are saying " open up to this.. what you are doing is junk ", i think its a bit one sided in nature to what works for you.

        The OP is looking at a very viable business model.. There are threads here that have been testimate to its success... That success still holds true
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        • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
          Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post


          * Ewen I respect you greatly, and I HATE pushing discussion with you.. you are invaluable to our community... but as much as you are saying " open up to this.. what you are doing is junk ", i think its a bit one sided in nature to what works for you.
          This is a good discussion.

          It's bringing to light the fundementals of business out in the open.

          Sadly it's rare they are talked about or discussed.

          When making decisions on business and investing,
          rules have been made so that the emotion is kept out
          and a reminder to stay on track.

          Warren Buffet has them.

          One is the business must have a sizable barrier of entry from competitors.

          What the poster is planning to do,
          with your encouragement,
          is brake that cardinal rule from a set of rules that have stood the test of time.

          Ranking websites, ranking in the 3-pack, is what one can call common knowedge,
          therefore competitors can come in and take your advantage
          just like he is proposing to do to others.

          One company deciding the ranking equals high risk,
          especially when the arbitor changes the rules constantly.

          I'm sorry, Warren Buffet would laugh you out of the room.

          Yet the fundementals of business from one of the wealthiest men,
          for decades, has set out his rules, you are knowingly breaking them
          which you propose

          I find this astonishing.

          One part of me does.

          The other part comes of no surprise to me because
          humans are not rational,
          despite their insistance.

          Like smokers with Government health warning on the labels,
          will keep on smoking.

          Best,
          Ewen
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          • Profile picture of the author savidge4
            Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

            Warren Buffet has them.

            One is the business must have a sizable barrier of entry from competitors.

            What the poster is planning to do,
            with your encouragement,
            is brake that cardinal rule from a set of rules that have stood the test of time.

            Ranking websites, ranking in the 3-pack, is what one can call common knowledge,
            therefore competitors can come in and take your advantage
            just like he is proposing to do to others.

            One company deciding the ranking equals high risk,
            especially when the arbitor changes the rules constantly.

            I'm sorry, Warren Buffet would laugh you out of the room.

            Its a great sales pitch.. its a great line of thinking... BUT not so accurate. You have to remember there is a separation from " Local Search " and " Search " in general. I dont know if you know but Google has made some changes that places an advantage towards a local entity in " Search " by using " Local Search " and yes TECHNICALLY they are 2 different things.

            A quick example.. type " Dentist " and what exactly do you see? you see results pulled from your local community.. you will see a 3 pack.. you will see ads.. and you will then see " Search " results that are again displaying local results when available*

            But lets for a moment do 1 more search, something a bit less local in nature say " Dishwashers " Yes you probably will see regular search listing first along with ads.. but low and behold there is a 3 pack. So we can now find the "More PLaces " link in the lower left section of the 3 pack and we can see exactly what the barrier of entry is.

            A side note to this.. I first typed in " Whole Home Generator " and found a 3 pack with only 2 listings... Home Depot and Lowes to be exact... I apparently need go out and find a client or 2 or 3 in the area that to fill this void. ( IE think about this process when you are looking for clients to take on when you can identify a need )

            So lets discuss the whole Google has the reigns and they make changes and what ever else excuses people make... SOLID SEO is just that.. I have sites that rank to this day after building them 10 years ago.. I have content on pretty popular terms that I wrote 3 4 and 5 years ago that still rank to this day. Its not as fickle as everyone leads others to believe... its only a roller coaster when you are applying stupid tactics.

            Which leads me to the concept that this would be considered " Common Knowledge " You will NEVER convince me of this.. just have a look over at the SEO forum on WF.. and show me how common a top listing is... the SEO forum is a great example of what you speak of.. but is by no means a representation of having the Technical where with all to actually get ranked listings.

            and to think Warren Buffet would laugh.. LOL Im sure you are familiar with Berkshire Hathaway Energy? why is it they employ such tactics across their 9 or so subsidaries? I am sure they do mailer offers as well.. but I can only speak about what I am familiar with.. and YES they have invested in LOCAL based SEO. - so somewhere olong the line.. it must have passed " The Test "

            The key element here is Google is making great strides to produce results that are relevant to the searcher.. and the element they are most focussed on is Location. so based on a search they are wanting to provide results that are in proximity to location of search. This actually REDUCES the amount of overall competition - it removes the guy 3 cities over.. it removes the big boy company a state over. Barrier of entry is on one side easy... but entry based on location is a non passable barrier
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            • Profile picture of the author TheTwoPointZero
              Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

              Its a great sales pitch.. its a great line of thinking... BUT not so accurate. You have to remember there is a separation from " Local Search " and " Search " in general. I dont know if you know but Google has made some changes that places an advantage towards a local entity in " Search " by using " Local Search " and yes TECHNICALLY they are 2 different things.

              A quick example.. type " Dentist " and what exactly do you see? you see results pulled from your local community.. you will see a 3 pack.. you will see ads.. and you will then see " Search " results that are again displaying local results when available*

              But lets for a moment do 1 more search, something a bit less local in nature say " Dishwashers " Yes you probably will see regular search listing first along with ads.. but low and behold there is a 3 pack. So we can now find the "More PLaces " link in the lower left section of the 3 pack and we can see exactly what the barrier of entry is.

              A side note to this.. I first typed in " Whole Home Generator " and found a 3 pack with only 2 listings... Home Depot and Lowes to be exact... I apparently need go out and find a client or 2 or 3 in the area that to fill this void. ( IE think about this process when you are looking for clients to take on when you can identify a need )

              So lets discuss the whole Google has the reigns and they make changes and what ever else excuses people make... SOLID SEO is just that.. I have sites that rank to this day after building them 10 years ago.. I have content on pretty popular terms that I wrote 3 4 and 5 years ago that still rank to this day. Its not as fickle as everyone leads others to believe... its only a roller coaster when you are applying stupid tactics.

              Which leads me to the concept that this would be considered " Common Knowledge " You will NEVER convince me of this.. just have a look over at the SEO forum on WF.. and show me how common a top listing is... the SEO forum is a great example of what you speak of.. but is by no means a representation of having the Technical where with all to actually get ranked listings.

              and to think Warren Buffet would laugh.. LOL Im sure you are familiar with Berkshire Hathaway Energy? why is it they employ such tactics across their 9 or so subsidaries? I am sure they do mailer offers as well.. but I can only speak about what I am familiar with.. and YES they have invested in LOCAL based SEO. - so somewhere olong the line.. it must have passed " The Test "

              The key element here is Google is making great strides to produce results that are relevant to the searcher.. and the element they are most focussed on is Location. so based on a search they are wanting to provide results that are in proximity to location of search. This actually REDUCES the amount of overall competition - it removes the guy 3 cities over.. it removes the big boy company a state over. Barrier of entry is on one side easy... but entry based on location is a non passable barrier
              Thank you for the reply. I agree with you and it does seem like local SEO is getting more rank for local searches these days which I really like. It helps keep the competition down significantly and my area has lots of places I can try to rank for.

              Would you recommend doing a state based domain and then use subpages for different cities and long tail keywords under each city or do a different domain for each city then have the long tail keyword pages under those city domains? Like mystatebusinesstype.com/mycity/keyword or mycitybusinesstype.com/keyword etc.? I really do not mind buying a different domain for each city with domains being so cheap do you think I will get a little more benefit doing a domain for each city? Thanks!
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              • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                Originally Posted by TheTwoPointZero View Post

                Would you recommend doing a state based domain and then use subpages for different cities and long tail keywords under each city
                No, I would not

                Originally Posted by TheTwoPointZero View Post

                or do a different domain for each city then have the long tail keyword pages under those city domains?
                A single city with pages for surrounding towns.. Such as Dallas Tx with Garland, Richardson, Farmers Branch, Grande Praire, University Park Etc

                Originally Posted by TheTwoPointZero View Post

                mycitybusinesstype.com/keyword etc.?
                As long as the " keyword " is location based so Garland roofer, garland metal roofer, Garland slate roofer etc.

                Originally Posted by TheTwoPointZero View Post

                I really do not mind buying a different domain for each city with domains being so cheap do you think I will get a little more benefit doing a domain for each city?

                One per client per region.. but you dont want a whole inventory of sites without having clients for them.. so build out 1 at a time.. rent one build the next
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  • Profile picture of the author TheTwoPointZero
    Because it is the method that I have been reading about for a while and is something I am exciting about trying. I am not saying that I would not try the postcard method later on but for now I want to try what I have been excited about trying which is lead generation through a website. It is the easiest thing for me personally to get started with lead generation. My town size is such that I do not have a lot of competition to rank local businesses in many different niches and I can essentially just buy a domain for a few dollars and do what I already know how to do with on page SEO to help it rank then when calls do start coming in send those leads to a potential client then when they have seen how well it works either sell them leads or rent the website to them.

    I know your postcard method has merit and while it may be a great way to do lead generation I am more excited about trying the website method as it is something I have been thinking about for a while. I am not great with cold calling or selling in person and I think selling the businesses on the postcard would be harder for me to do than the rank and rent method would. I am willing to put in the work on that later but for now I just want to get the path of least resistance for my particular set of skills.
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    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      Originally Posted by TheTwoPointZero View Post

      Because it is the method that I have been reading about for a while and is something I am exciting about trying. I am not saying that I would not try the postcard method later on but for now I want to try what I have been excited about trying which is lead generation through a website. It is the easiest thing for me personally to get started with lead generation. My town size is such that I do not have a lot of competition to rank local businesses in many different niches and I can essentially just buy a domain for a few dollars and do what I already know how to do with on page SEO to help it rank then when calls do start coming in send those leads to a potential client then when they have seen how well it works either sell them leads or rent the website to them.

      I know your postcard method has merit and while it may be a great way to do lead generation I am more excited about trying the website method as it is something I have been thinking about for a while. I am not great with cold calling or selling in person and I think selling the businesses on the postcard would be harder for me to do than the rank and rent method would. I am willing to put in the work on that later but for now I just want to get the path of least resistance for my particular set of skills.
      I no longer can help you.

      You are ignoring the path of the most valuable companies in the world,
      owning the media and selling access to it.

      You are ignoring the ever-changing rules that Google sets.

      You are ignoring the low barrier of entry for somebody
      to come along and out-rank you.

      A barrier to enter your market is one of Warren Buffets rules of investing.

      You are setting yourself up short-term, rocky
      foundations of business.

      I tried, you are alone.

      Best,
      Ewen
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  • Profile picture of the author TheTwoPointZero
    Thank you again and yes I do see merit in that approach. I am not ignoring the merit of that. I am just saying I have been excited about trying the rank and rent method. I am not saying I would not try the postcard method it is just not the first one on my list. Thank you again though and I appreciate it.
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  • Profile picture of the author animal44
    Originally Posted by TheTwoPointZero View Post

    What would be a good first niche local business to start with for lead generation.
    Home Advisor publishes info like this
    https://pro.homeadvisor.com/home-imp...tractor-leads/

    Pick something popular that you have some interest and go for it...

    There's also a list of cost per lead which is sometimes found on various sites. Couldn't find one on a quick search.

    As for experience, expect every lead that doesn't convert to be challenged...

    Have a search for reviews on Home Advisor and others and see what people think of lead gen businesses...
    e.g. https://www.sitejabber.com/reviews/homeadvisor.com

    Better still, get out there and talk to your market.

    Do you have a plan for when someone decides they don't want your leads anymore? SEO is something you can't really switch off easily. At least with PPC, you can pause the campaign...
    Signature

    People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.
    What I do for a living

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    • Profile picture of the author TheTwoPointZero
      Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

      Home Advisor publishes info like this
      https://pro.homeadvisor.com/home-imp...tractor-leads/

      Pick something popular that you have some interest and go for it...

      There's also a list of cost per lead which is sometimes found on various sites. Couldn't find one on a quick search.

      As for experience, expect every lead that doesn't convert to be challenged...

      Have a search for reviews on Home Advisor and others and see what people think of lead gen businesses...
      e.g. https://www.sitejabber.com/reviews/homeadvisor.com

      Better still, get out there and talk to your market.

      Do you have a plan for when someone decides they don't want your leads anymore? SEO is something you can't really switch off easily. At least with PPC, you can pause the campaign...
      Thank you for your reply. I will look through these links you mentioned and do some research. I really appreciate that information. I was thinking there is the potential for leads that do not convert to be a problem which is why I was leaning towards possibly doing either rank and rent instead or maybe commission % for sales made from the leads though with that I would need to trust that they would be honest so I would probably lean towards rank and rent in that situation. Or I had thought that even if I do sell the leads to business owners and say a business gets 50 leads from the website in a month and they make 5 sales from those leads. If they make around $2000.00 - $3000.00 profit from each sale even if they are paying say $30.00 per lead they are still making a huge ROI so at that point they would have to decide whether the 4 or 5 sales are profitable enough to make it worth eating the fee on the 45 non sales out of the 50. If they do not feel it is then I let them know it is no problem and that I would sell the leads to the competition.

      If for some reason I got to where there was no business willing to buy the leads then I would then attempt to sell the website outright. Either way I only have my own time in the project and I figure I would make enough money before that point to make it worth it.

      I know that as a web designer if I had someone willing to sell me web design leads I would buy every one I could if the ROI made it worth it. Thanks!
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    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

      Home Advisor publishes info like this
      https://pro.homeadvisor.com/home-imp...tractor-leads/
      Home Advisor publishes their charges per non exclusiuve leads here...
      https://pro.homeadvisor.com/billing/leadfees/

      You might have to refresh the page if it doesn't show the first time.

      Best,
      Ewen
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      • Profile picture of the author TheTwoPointZero
        Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

        Home Advisor publishes their charges per non exclusiuve leads here...
        https://pro.homeadvisor.com/billing/leadfees/

        You might have to refresh the pageif it doesn't show the first time.

        Best,
        Ewen
        Thank you very much for this. This is very helpful!
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      • Profile picture of the author animal44
        Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

        Home Advisor publishes their charges per non exclusiuve leads here...
        https://pro.homeadvisor.com/billing/leadfees/

        You might have to refresh the page if it doesn't show the first time.

        Best,
        Ewen
        Ah, knew it was somewhere, just couldn't find it without a bit more caffeine...!
        Signature

        People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.
        What I do for a living

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        • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
          Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

          Ah, new it was somewhere, just couldn't find it without a bit more caffeine...!
          Powered by green tea and freshly sliced ginger!

          Best,
          Ewen
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  • Profile picture of the author TheTwoPointZero
    Thank you both for your replies. I am sure there are better ways to get leads and the way you are suggesting Ewen is definitely one to try in the future but for now I really am just wanting to try something I am comfortable with. I am not basing my entire business model on this. I have been doing the web design for clients for almost 10 years now and I will keep doing that business. The plan to do rank and rent or selling leads through lead generation websites is a side revenue for that. I fully plan to get into postcard and direct mail in the future. This post was just about asking for advice on which niche may be best to try first for that avenue of lead generation. Savidge made some great points in his post. It is what my experience lends to at this point. I also do not do not have a lot of experience with graphic design and outsource much of that work now when I need to for web design. Not saying I am not willing to learn new things it is just that I want to start with what I know first and branch out from there later. Passion does come into play here and I really enjoy working with websites so I think doing things along that route for now is something that will keep me motivated and hopefully work out for me.

    I have read a lot about the 9x13 postcards and want to try that in the future and want to delve into direct mail for clients but it is just not something I am ready to start just yet. I have a decent business now with the web design and want to start branching out to lots of different avenues and the lead generation is just the first one I want to try and I am excited to try it.

    Thanks again to both of you for all of the advice.
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  • Profile picture of the author TheTwoPointZero
    Thank you for your replies and recommendations. Then using your recommendation if it was Dallas for example it would be

    dallasroofing.com/garland/metal-roofing-installation

    or is there any difference in doing it like this

    dallasroofing.com/garland-metal-roofing-installation

    Does having the suburb as a parent page for the long tail keyword make any difference or is it better to have that suburb be in the long tail keyword page title instead? I would prefer to do the suburb name as a parent page with the long tail keyword being a subpage under the suburb but if it is better for SEO to have the suburb be in the page title itself instead of just in the url as a parent page I will do that.

    Thanks!
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by TheTwoPointZero View Post

      Does having the suburb as a parent page for the long tail keyword make any difference or is it better to have that suburb be in the long tail keyword page title instead? I would prefer to do the suburb name as a parent page with the long tail keyword being a subpage under the suburb but if it is better for SEO to have the suburb be in the page title itself instead of just in the url as a parent page I will do that.
      Technically speaking... it doesnt matter ( in the eyes of Google * ) if its Bills dot com / dallas / garland / metalroofing or if its dallasroofing dot com / garland / metal-roofing. So in SEARCH an EDM carries no more weight than something that is say branded. ( IE Bills dot com ) pretty much as long as the keyword is in the URL you will be fine.

      HOWEVER... notice the " in the eyes of Google* " this is what they SAY, but in terms of " LOCAL SEARCH " EDM does carry weight and gives you an advantage. Start pulling up some local searches and you can see for yourself more often than not there is atleast 1 if not more EDM type URLS in the 3 pack.

      Then we can throw in the old school thinking of how a bot reads a page.. top to bottom left to right. So the higher on the page ( actual code lines - a keyword on line 4 has more weight than an the same line on another page being on line 15 ) the more benefit you gain. The same is true left to right, like in the old days when keyword tags were in effect. the term listed first ( far left ) carried more weight than one listed at the end ( far right ).

      So with DALLAS being the example.. blahblahdallas dot com / garland / metal roofing you can look from left to right and identify significance you are placing on terms. BUT remember Google is already identifying location based on physical location ( or gateway ) of search... so location is less important than metal roofing. So blahblahdallas dot com / metal roofing / garland would be a stronger URL structure.

      And then you need to look how people actually search this stuff... As I said in one of these threads you can simply type in " Dentist " and you will get local to you results. So are people actually typing Garland Metal Roofing or just Metal Roofing. My experience is the later just Metal Roofing. ( but note that typing both into a Google - local cityname + metal roofing OR metal roofing in most cases does provide some differences in SERP listings )
      Hope that Helps!
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      • Profile picture of the author dsimms
        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        Technically speaking... it doesnt matter ( in the eyes of Google * ) if its Bills dot com / dallas / garland / metalroofing or if its dallasroofing dot com / garland / metal-roofing. So in SEARCH an EDM carries no more weight than something that is say branded. ( IE Bills dot com ) pretty much as long as the keyword is in the URL you will be fine.

        HOWEVER... notice the " in the eyes of Google* " this is what they SAY, but in terms of " LOCAL SEARCH " EDM does carry weight and gives you an advantage. Start pulling up some local searches and you can see for yourself more often than not there is atleast 1 if not more EDM type URLS in the 3 pack.

        Then we can throw in the old school thinking of how a bot reads a page.. top to bottom left to right. So the higher on the page ( actual code lines - a keyword on line 4 has more weight than an the same line on another page being on line 15 ) the more benefit you gain. The same is true left to right, like in the old days when keyword tags were in effect. the term listed first ( far left ) carried more weight than one listed at the end ( far right ).

        So with DALLAS being the example.. blahblahdallas dot com / garland / metal roofing you can look from left to right and identify significance you are placing on terms. BUT remember Google is already identifying location based on physical location ( or gateway ) of search... so location is less important than metal roofing. So blahblahdallas dot com / metal roofing / garland would be a stronger URL structure.

        And then you need to look how people actually search this stuff... As I said in one of these threads you can simply type in " Dentist " and you will get local to you results. So are people actually typing Garland Metal Roofing or just Metal Roofing. My experience is the later just Metal Roofing. ( but note that typing both into a Google - local cityname + metal roofing OR metal roofing in most cases does provide some differences in SERP listings )
        Hope that Helps!
        Most people would not simply just type in dentist and hope for the best, and when I did that, they were more than an hour away, when in fact, I have two dentists right up the road, so do not think Google is going to put you right outside the office of a dentist, so your best bet would be something like "dentist + my town + state" this tells Google exactly where you are looking for a particular dentist in your town, not 1hr up the road, so I guess if i lived 1 hour up the road, then google would have been right, so do not assume a general keyword search will work for everyone, google search should be specific, otherwise, you may be gathering leads that may turn out to be useless because they may be too far outside of your/their target search.
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        • Profile picture of the author DWolfe
          Originally Posted by dsimms View Post

          Most people would not simply just type in dentist and hope for the best, and when I did that, they were more than an hour away, when in fact, I have two dentists right up the road, so do not think Google is going to put you right outside the office of a dentist, so your best bet would be something like "dentist + my town + state" this tells Google exactly where you are looking for a particular dentist in your town, not 1hr up the road, so I guess if i lived 1 hour up the road, then google would have been right, so do not assume a general keyword search will work for everyone, google search should be specific, otherwise, you may be gathering leads that may turn out to be useless because they may be too far outside of your/their target search.
          That is not always the case. Just picked up my phone and typed in Dentist in the chrome browser and guess what appeared - Recomendations from google that said
          1) Dentist
          2) Dentist near me
          3) another choice

          Clicked on Dentist and had 2 listings showed up less than 5 minutes away from my cuurrent location
          Dentist near me showed 1 location. That said the first choice was a paid ad from a slight distance away. The others were less than 5 minutes away. Depends if a phone has your location turned on. However did not try it with the laptop on typing on.

          So Saviage is not far off the mark or dead on depending what device is being used.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gary Pettit
    Lead generation is a digital marketing tactic used to create interest in your product or service and establish a pipeline for sales. With lead generation, the focus is on conversions. Lead generation involves the collection of prospective customer contact info, such as a name and email, and these prospectives can then be reached out to via email marketing, the creation of product videos, whitepapers, and much more.
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  • Profile picture of the author TheTwoPointZero
    Thank you very much for all of that information. This is helping me better understand how much of a role the url structure plays in ranking. I really appreciate you taking the time to help explain it. I will use this when I structure the urls for the websites I want to rank. Thanks!
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  • Great discussion over here. After scrolling through the comments I have started going through the google searches myself and found a quite nice Medium article about the tools for Lead Generation. Gave me quite a few ideas about where could I use the services. Might help you out in the situation too.
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  • Profile picture of the author chuckholmes
    I would also chime in and say that I have had tremendous success using postcards. With so many folks shifting to online, direct mail has much less competition. Plus, I think it's cheaper. I can mail a postcard for about 45 cents, including the lead, postcard and postage.

    I can guarantee it will get to the person's mailbox, with fewer offers than the same person has in their email account.

    Think about it this way for a minute. How many emails do you get per day? Compare that to how many phone calls you get per day. And finally, how many postcards do you get per day?

    When I do paid online advertising, I normally end up paying about 50 to 60 cents per click, but with direct mail postcards it's much cheaper.

    Plus, people keep postcards. Just my two cents.
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  • Profile picture of the author TheTwoPointZero
    Thank you for your replies. I like the idea of using the content in different formats. I may try that. With postcards I am sure that is a great way to generate leads for certain types of businesses but I feel like for a contractor on demand type business like roofing or plumbing or bathroom remodeling the people that respond to that are people that need that type of work right then and you would spend a lot of money sending postcards to people that have no interest in that at that time where online you are ranking for people that are searching for those terms.

    I definitely really like the idea of using postcards and direct mail I just do not see it working great for lead generation for the types of niches I had in mind. I do not know what niches it would be profitable to target with direct mail for lead generation. Thanks!
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    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      [QUOTE=TheTwoPointZero;11402535

      I definitely really like the idea of using postcards and direct mail I just do not see it working great for lead generation for the types of niches I had in mind. I do not know what niches it would be profitable to target with direct mail for lead generation. Thanks![/QUOTE]

      So what niches are you planning to go into?

      Best,
      Ewen
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  • Profile picture of the author TheTwoPointZero
    I was originally thinking about doing niches like contractor types for on demand service like roofing installation or repair or plumbing or bathroom remodeling. Doing direct mail postcards to blanket a city would only get a few hits from those few people that were wanting that type of service right then when they see the postcard where with ranking a website for that niche you are getting leads from people that are actively searching for that type of service.

    Now the postcard I think would work great for something like restaurant coupons or things like that. Though that would not be for lead generation but instead would be the 9x13 postcard thing that Bob Ross talked about on here a few years ago where you sell spots on a glossy large 9x13 postcard.

    Or maybe the postcard would work with services like dentists or niches that people do often enough to warrant blanketing a city with it. What niches do you find work well with postcards for lead generation? Where you sell the calls you receive from the postcard to the business in that niche?
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    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      I see you didn't take in my original reply...
      the one about a Colorado painter getting 43 phone calls in 14 days
      wanting requests for pricing.
      15 phone calls on the first day.
      $16,000 paid for and still had over 50% of those calls to
      go on site to price.

      Home improvement
      are the best for postcards.

      Imagine you producing that many phone calls for one lead partner in 14 days
      and you got paid $90 for each which cost you zero dollars to produce?

      Nobody can show me a seo, 3pack Adwords producing those numbers in that size city.

      Even if they could get close to that volume,
      then you take out the cost of aquiribng those phone calls
      and the cost of getting the phone call is going to be a lot less.

      Beyond that there are 2 other metrics
      that will beat the online lead generation numbers.

      The conversion to paid jobs
      and the dollar value of the jobs.

      Postcard generated phone calls to home improvement contractors aren't price shopping and comparison shopping because
      online advertising by nature has the competitors ads and listings side by side.

      One of the fastest growing garage door repair company in the USA
      has an owner who has his marketing so dialled in that he would run
      rings around digital marketing agencies.

      He brought it al;l inhouse,
      now does lead gen for others now also.

      The most profitable form of lead gen for him is from postcards in the physical mailbox.

      He knows this because he tracks the source of dollars generated.

      Yet,
      he could slash his client aquisition costs
      by having
      other home improvement
      contractors on a bigger postcard cover the cost of mailing.

      But after all this, you still aren't going to do shared postcards, first.

      I'm actually not posting this for you because you are a lost cause,
      I'm doing this for others who read and actually learn what works best.

      Best,
      Ewen
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  • Profile picture of the author TheTwoPointZero
    I really appreciate you taking the time to explain that. How many postcards did you send out to get the 43 calls? What I do not understand is why would a different type of company agree to pay for a postcard that has your ad on the back of it? I assume that is what you are doing? Have the business paying for the postcard on the front of the card with the business you want to sell leads to on the back of the card? They are not direct competition then I guess? If they are paying for the card why would they not just run their own ad on front and back? What value are you giving them for them to agree to that? Are you providing graphic design on the postcard for them? I do not have those skills though I could outsource it I guess. I just do not see how you sell the paying business on paying the full cost of the card and allowing a different business to piggyback on what they paid for? I am not arguing I am genuinely interested. Thanks.
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    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      Originally Posted by TheTwoPointZero View Post

      I really appreciate you taking the time to explain that. How many postcards did you send out to get the 43 calls? What I do not understand is why would a different type of company agree to pay for a postcard that has your ad on the back of it? I assume that is what you are doing? Have the business paying for the postcard on the front of the card with the business you want to sell leads to on the back of the card? They are not direct competition then I guess? If they are paying for the card why would they not just run their own ad on front and back? What value are you giving them for them to agree to that? Are you providing graphic design on the postcard for them? I do not have those skills though I could outsource it I guess. I just do not see how you sell the paying business on paying the full cost of the card and allowing a different business to piggyback on what they paid for? I am not arguing I am genuinely interested. Thanks.
      The maths is simple,
      the advertiser slashes his cost by over 75%,
      if he went solo.

      The design, print, postage and Paypal fees
      for a 5,000 piece mailer is $2,028.72.

      4 adverisers devide those expenses and it's $507.18
      each.

      Now we have 2 spaces for ourselves, one on front and back.

      The Colorado painter had one spot.

      Best,
      Ewen
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      • Profile picture of the author TheTwoPointZero
        Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

        The maths is simple,
        the advertiser slashes his cost by over 75%,
        if he went solo.

        The design, print, postage and Paypal fees
        for a 5,000 piece mailer is $2,028.72.

        4 adverisers devide those expenses and it's $507.18
        each.

        Now we have 2 spaces for ourselves, one on front and back.

        The Colorado painter had one spot.

        Best,
        Ewen
        Thank you. That seems like a very good idea and is something I will try. Do you recommend keeping a same theme on your postcard like home improvement or mixing in a few restaurant offers to make the card more appealing to people that receive it?
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        • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
          Originally Posted by TheTwoPointZero View Post

          Thank you. That seems like a very good idea and is something I will try. Do you recommend keeping a same theme on your postcard like home improvement or mixing in a few restaurant offers to make the card more appealing to people that receive it?
          Food has merit.

          Home improvement tend to stay longer .

          In saying that, my friend
          has had a pizza place and liquor store
          stay with him for years.

          Best,
          Ewen
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          • Profile picture of the author TheTwoPointZero
            Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

            Food has merit.

            Home improvement tend to stay longer .

            In saying that, my friend
            has had a pizza place and liquor store
            stay with him for years.

            Best,
            Ewen
            That sounds great then. I will give it a try. Thanks again for the advice.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Forget saving the cost. Just make a postcard of yours alone..... And forget the 2k it costs. Make 50k. Some people spend 20k daily on ppc., in order to make 5k per. Day. Think like that ( "Profit". ) That's my two cents.
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      • Profile picture of the author TheTwoPointZero
        Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

        Forget saving the cost. Just make a postcard of yours alone..... And forget the 2k it costs. Make 50k.
        Thank you but I do not think direct mail would be a great way for me to advertise web design. It goes to mostly residents and while there may be a few here and there that are business owners then the ones that actually need a website would be less than that. I tried a coupon mailer once in one of those envelopes and did not get any sales from it.
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        • Profile picture of the author John Durham
          Indeed. Well I'm into telemarketing. You wouldn't be interested. I understand that your mind and passion are set on your plan... And that is ok. It is your journey and your paths.... Sometimes you are right despite others input, when you find your own way. You carve your own path, for no other reason than " that's what you want to do". You will probably succeed either way, judging from this thread. As for me... I can already generate daily leads, out the ass, w what I know, but am enthralled by the schooling here from some others.
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          • Profile picture of the author TheTwoPointZero
            Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

            Indeed. Well I'm into telemarketing. You wouldn't be interested. I understand that your mind and passion are set on your plan... And that is ok. It is your journey and your paths.... Sometimes you are right despite others input, when you find your own way. You carve your own path, for no other reason than " that's what you want to do". You will probably succeed either way, judging from this thread. As for me... I can already generate daily leads, out the ass, w what I know, but am enthralled by the schooling here from some others.
            Thank you for your reply and the confidence in my plan. I am glad you have success with the way you do it. I wish I had the ability to sell over the phone like that. I guess everyone has their strengths. I have indeed learned a lot from Savidge and Ewen and the different people that have posted here. I hope to one day have the experience and success to be able to help people like they have with me.

            Thanks!
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        • Profile picture of the author DABK
          Make yourself a list of the top 100 customers you'd like to have, find out who needs to know about you, send them mail (that links to an offer on your site - make it specific to their type of business). See, direct mail can reach business owners and can work with online!


          Say I'm a car repair shop and I get a card in the mail that promises me a customer conversion system and I can see a demo at such and such url (and the url ends in my company name). What do you think I'm going to do?


          Well, it depends on the copy, but assuming good copy, odds are good I will look even if things are going good, if I'm a business man not a mechanic who owns a shop...


          In other words, you need to sort who you go after.... Hence the top 100... You don't send to those who don't get marketing or are set up too badly to handle one extra client or are happy with just the way things are...


          How do you do that? Once you've sorted them by your other main criteria, you look to see if they advertise...



          PS Combine Ewan and Savidge and you get better results. Cross my heart!



          Originally Posted by TheTwoPointZero View Post

          Thank you but I do not think direct mail would be a great way for me to advertise web design. It goes to mostly residents and while there may be a few here and there that are business owners then the ones that actually need a website would be less than that. I tried a coupon mailer once in one of those envelopes and did not get any sales from it.
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  • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
    For those thinking of getting into lead generation
    for local businesses using digital marketing,
    you are going to get hit by "your leads are crap",
    "they are a bunch of price shoppers".

    The reason is your ads, your listings are in amongst
    your lead partner competitors.

    If you have a potential lead partner that you are talking to that has had an outsource partner presently or
    in the past, You are going to get hit with that barrier.

    What many will do to overcome it
    is to get the lead partner just try them for a nominal or no fee.

    However, it still doesn't solve the underlying problem,
    the source of your leads generated.

    Online the buyer is comparison shopping.

    You've been warned.

    Best,
    Ewen
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

      you are going to get hit by "your leads are crap",
      "they are a bunch of price shoppers".
      This is so very true.. the reason I do not partake in this particular model. I would rather obtain a client on the front end as a web development project with the value being placed on developing results vs just a website. A gain far more up front... I charge more monthly for the standard hosting etc + the added citations etc, and it basically quadruples my reoccuring cashflow.

      I dont have the discussion of crap leads... or the discussion of why they cant sell or any of that.. In the end I believe this to be better business. No stress, maintains solid client relationships, and on the back end it postitions me from a $50 a month hosting charge to a $200 plus a month hosting and services charge... and the services take like an hour a month.
      Signature
      Success is an ACT not an idea
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      • Profile picture of the author TheTwoPointZero
        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        This is so very true.. the reason I do not partake in this particular model. I would rather obtain a client on the front end as a web development project with the value being placed on developing results vs just a website. A gain far more up front... I charge more monthly for the standard hosting etc + the added citations etc, and it basically quadruples my reoccuring cashflow.

        I dont have the discussion of crap leads... or the discussion of why they cant sell or any of that.. In the end I believe this to be better business. No stress, maintains solid client relationships, and on the back end it postitions me from a $50 a month hosting charge to a $200 plus a month hosting and services charge... and the services take like an hour a month.
        Thank you for your reply. This makes sense. Most of my clients really love the work I do for them so maybe I should look into providing them leads instead. If I did something like this I guess I would do a rank and rent for them instead of selling individual leads. In my case the leads would need to come from a newly built website instead of the main website of the business. I want to be in control of the asset that is providing the leads in case the business decides they no longer want to pay for leads. The problem is I do not know enough about off page SEO to provide a monthly service like one with more experience could. The fact that I do not feel I have much I can offer on a monthly basis to my clients to get recurring revenue is one of the main reasons I decided to look into lead generation.

        My town is the perfect size for something like rank and rent or selling leads. I was really excited about it. Though now I am starting to second guess that and think maybe I should not put my time into that model. I need to branch out and figure out more ways to make money than just building websites for clients. I am getting tired of chasing web design client sales each month for something that I do once then only get a once a year payment for hosting.
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        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
          Originally Posted by TheTwoPointZero View Post

          Thank you for your reply. This makes sense. Most of my clients really love the work I do for them so maybe I should look into providing them leads instead. If I did something like this I guess I would do a rank and rent for them instead of selling individual leads. In my case the leads would need to come from a newly built website instead of the main website of the business.

          I want to be in control of the asset that is providing the leads in case the business decides they no longer want to pay for leads. The problem is I do not know enough about off page SEO to provide a monthly service like one with more experience could. The fact that I do not feel I have much I can offer on a monthly basis to my clients to get recurring revenue is one of the main reasons I decided to look into lead generation.
          Your headed towards a more slippery slope than selling leads this way... why would a client buy / rent a 2nd site to get leads? Isnt that the whole idea of the first site to begin with? having a web presents and getting more clients / make more sales?

          Your logic that you want to control the " Asset " as much as I understand it.. backed with "I do not feel I have much I can offer on a monthly basis to my clients to get recurring revenue is one of the main reasons I decided to look into lead generation.
          " becomes very flawed very quick. You are basically heading in a direction that you are self admittedly saying you have little to offer.

          Lets get you on the right track.. start with this:

          https://moz.com/blog/category/local-seo

          https://www.brightlocal.com/

          https://searchengineland.com/local-s...-search-268412

          READ READ and READ... I am beginning to see that you really dont understand local SEO...

          Go look up " Backlink" and then go look up " Citation " Local SEO is more about " Citations " and once you understand exactly what that is... It may decrease some of your hesitations.

          DO you have a website for yourself? Take what you learn over the next few days of reading and startapplying it to your site... once you are comfortable with the process start with some of your existing clients and integrate what you have learned into their sites FOR FREE ( and no im not kidding ) And once you see positive movement in visitors and hopefully some actual profit increase for your clients, then create a local SEO package for the remainder of your clients.

          From this point, you can then step up your game and go from a " Web Designer " to a provider of web design that creates a 24 hour presents to attract business for you new clients - lead gen.

          I am going to guess you charge somewhere in the $500 range to build sites? and how much do you get for hosting? I currently charge 8x that, with $200 on average in monthly hosting and fees... get into my clients with social media as well and I can get into 10X and in excess of $500 a month hosting and fees.

          You need to get past the just building aspect, and get into the providing results portion of the game - and as long as you show how your work creates dollars at the end of each month in your cutesy cutesy monthly report.. they wont go anywhere.
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          Success is an ACT not an idea
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          • Profile picture of the author TheTwoPointZero
            Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

            Your headed towards a more slippery slope than selling leads this way... why would a client buy / rent a 2nd site to get leads? Isnt that the whole idea of the first site to begin with? having a web presents and getting more clients / make more sales?

            Your logic that you want to control the " Asset " as much as I understand it.. backed with "I do not feel I have much I can offer on a monthly basis to my clients to get recurring revenue is one of the main reasons I decided to look into lead generation.
            " becomes very flawed very quick. You are basically heading in a direction that you are self admittedly saying you have little to offer.

            Lets get you on the right track.. start with this:

            https://moz.com/blog/category/local-seo

            https://www.brightlocal.com/

            https://searchengineland.com/local-s...-search-268412

            READ READ and READ... I am beginning to see that you really dont understand local SEO...

            Go look up " Backlink" and then go look up " Citation " Local SEO is more about " Citations " and once you understand exactly what that is... It may decrease some of your hesitations.

            DO you have a website for yourself? Take what you learn over the next few days of reading and startapplying it to your site... once you are comfortable with the process start with some of your existing clients and integrate what you have learned into their sites FOR FREE ( and no im not kidding ) And once you see positive movement in visitors and hopefully some actual profit increase for your clients, then create a local SEO package for the remainder of your clients.

            From this point, you can then step up your game and go from a " Web Designer " to a provider of web design that creates a 24 hour presents to attract business for you new clients - lead gen.

            I am going to guess you charge somewhere in the $500 range to build sites? and how much do you get for hosting? I currently charge 8x that, with $200 on average in monthly hosting and fees... get into my clients with social media as well and I can get into 10X and in excess of $500 a month hosting and fees.

            You need to get past the just building aspect, and get into the providing results portion of the game - and as long as you show how your work creates dollars at the end of each month in your cutesy cutesy monthly report.. they wont go anywhere.
            Thanks. You are absolutely right. I do know plenty about on page SEO but very little about off page SEO. I do have clients ask about SEO often. I will do thr reading and research like you recommended. Thank you for those links and list of things to look up.

            You are also right about what I charge. My range is usually $500.00 to $5000.00 with very little of my clients being above $1000.00 and most have been around $500.00. For hosting I usually get around $200.00 to $300.00 per year. I have a few clients that pay me a small fee to do monthly website updates for them but most of them only do it for one year because they odten find they do not need updates that often. I do build very good looking websites but you are right that I need to get more into the marketing part of it and start offering more value that I can get recurring revenue for.

            I have thought about offering monthly postings ad or newsletters so I will look into copywriting services I can resell.

            Thanks again!
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            • Profile picture of the author savidge4
              Originally Posted by TheTwoPointZero View Post

              You are also right about what I charge. My range is usually $500.00 to $5000.00 with very little of my clients being above $1000.00 and most have been around $500.00. For hosting I usually get around $200.00 to $300.00 per year. I have a few clients that pay me a small fee to do monthly website updates for them but most of them only do it for one year because they odten find they do not need updates that often.
              The more we communicate here the more clear the overall picture of your business is to me. At this point I am going to be very blunt with you. I am going to say place the idea of Lead Gen on the back burner. I can see there are some fundamental issues that need corrected before you start expanding in an attempt to increase revenue.

              I am going to throw some numbers out real quick to show you what you are leaving on the table. You build 10 websites in 1 year at $500 each. thats $5000 for the year. For each site you charge $50 a month hosting with unlimited changes ( and I will get into this ) so the first site for 12 months is 50 x 12 = $600. 2nd site 11 months $550 so on and so on for the 10 sites the first year.. your hosting total would be $3750 for the year.

              The next year.. same amount of sites 10 @ $5000 same $3750 for the 2nd year sites, but an additional $6000 in revenue for the year from the sites built in the first year So for year #2 you are looking at $5000 for the builds and $9750 for the hosting. the 3rd year? $5000 for building and $15,750 for hosting The further out you carry this, the more insane it becomes.

              When I read things like " most of them only do it for one year because they often find they do not need updates " I will answer this for you... It is YOUR job to create the value in what it is you are offering... If you are going to charge $50 for hosting and unlimited changes.. you have to create instances of changes... and trust me there are plenty of changes. Holiday hours, Winter Hours vs Summer Hours, season specials, product specials, new products, new key employees, closings for holidays or vacations.. and on and on and on.

              I would suggest to you that you should be writing 4 pieces of content for each of your clients ( I am assuming your platform of choice is WordPress ) - this only helps your onpage SEO efforts. Simply do a search on whatever business it is, and look for blogs on the subject and get ideas... bang out an article. In your monthly billing statement include the article printed out with a line on the bottom for them to sign that oks you publishing the article. Dont wait for the client to write it - I am sure you know at this point you will be waiting forever.. and again you are adding value for the money you are charging.

              Since I brang it up... Do you send a monthly statement? I find this to be key in creating interaction between you and your client... developing and nuturing that relationship... As key points in the year come up, you can say Hey are your hours changing for the winter months? let us know. What are your hours for the 4th of july, let us know Whatever pertains to that particular business - it creates a channel of dialog, thatis beneficial to the client, and again for you.

              Next... you need to start developing LOCAL SEO into your base package - this will obviously increase your price. In your $50 a month Hosting and changes fee you include 4 Citations each and every month. Once you understand what they are and how to do that... you will find it takes a matter of minutes. And again in your monthly statement you list each one that you created.

              To add to your reading.. you need to learn about getting Google for business for your clients. I will also suggest you read: https://www.warriorforum.com/offline...l#post11391912 I laid out a step by step how to land work by offering VALUE for free. Just so happens to be inline with all of the things I am asking you to read.

              In the same thread linked above.. I left this: quoting Aristotle "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." and I am thining the same applies here. You are getting business to build sites.. you say they are very nice looking, and the clients like them... you then say as I mentioned above they are dropping services you charge for. ( not seeing the value in what you are offering ) So with all of the happy clients you have.. how many of them were referals from other clients? This is a really good benchmark to determine how your clients really see your service in terms of value.

              By increasing your knowledge to include local SEO.. by creating some simple content 4 times a year.. by creating the need for changes on the site... you are developing the Value of what it is you offer.. once these things are in place and working for YOUR site, and for whatever clients you have remaining.. you should be able to jump your base price to an easy $750 and continue to increase with every addition job $50 to get you into the $1500 area. 10 sites a year $15,000 with $6,000 per year reoccuing looks a lot better than $5000 and $6000
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              • Profile picture of the author TheTwoPointZero
                Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                The more we communicate here the more clear the overall picture of your business is to me. At this point I am going to be very blunt with you. I am going to say place the idea of Lead Gen on the back burner. I can see there are some fundamental issues that need corrected before you start expanding in an attempt to increase revenue.

                I am going to throw some numbers out real quick to show you what you are leaving on the table. You build 10 websites in 1 year at $500 each. thats $5000 for the year. For each site you charge $50 a month hosting with unlimited changes ( and I will get into this ) so the first site for 12 months is 50 x 12 = $600. 2nd site 11 months $550 so on and so on for the 10 sites the first year.. your hosting total would be $3750 for the year.

                The next year.. same amount of sites 10 @ $5000 same $3750 for the 2nd year sites, but an additional $6000 in revenue for the year from the sites built in the first year So for year #2 you are looking at $5000 for the builds and $9750 for the hosting. the 3rd year? $5000 for building and $15,750 for hosting The further out you carry this, the more insane it becomes.

                When I read things like " most of them only do it for one year because they often find they do not need updates " I will answer this for you... It is YOUR job to create the value in what it is you are offering... If you are going to charge $50 for hosting and unlimited changes.. you have to create instances of changes... and trust me there are plenty of changes. Holiday hours, Winter Hours vs Summer Hours, season specials, product specials, new products, new key employees, closings for holidays or vacations.. and on and on and on.

                I would suggest to you that you should be writing 4 pieces of content for each of your clients ( I am assuming your platform of choice is WordPress ) - this only helps your onpage SEO efforts. Simply do a search on whatever business it is, and look for blogs on the subject and get ideas... bang out an article. In your monthly billing statement include the article printed out with a line on the bottom for them to sign that oks you publishing the article. Dont wait for the client to write it - I am sure you know at this point you will be waiting forever.. and again you are adding value for the money you are charging.

                Since I brang it up... Do you send a monthly statement? I find this to be key in creating interaction between you and your client... developing and nuturing that relationship... As key points in the year come up, you can say Hey are your hours changing for the winter months? let us know. What are your hours for the 4th of july, let us know Whatever pertains to that particular business - it creates a channel of dialog, thatis beneficial to the client, and again for you.

                Next... you need to start developing LOCAL SEO into your base package - this will obviously increase your price. In your $50 a month Hosting and changes fee you include 4 Citations each and every month. Once you understand what they are and how to do that... you will find it takes a matter of minutes. And again in your monthly statement you list each one that you created.

                To add to your reading.. you need to learn about getting Google for business for your clients. I will also suggest you read: https://www.warriorforum.com/offline...l#post11391912 I laid out a step by step how to land work by offering VALUE for free. Just so happens to be inline with all of the things I am asking you to read.

                In the same thread linked above.. I left this: quoting Aristotle "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." and I am thining the same applies here. You are getting business to build sites.. you say they are very nice looking, and the clients like them... you then say as I mentioned above they are dropping services you charge for. ( not seeing the value in what you are offering ) So with all of the happy clients you have.. how many of them were referals from other clients? This is a really good benchmark to determine how your clients really see your service in terms of value.

                By increasing your knowledge to include local SEO.. by creating some simple content 4 times a year.. by creating the need for changes on the site... you are developing the Value of what it is you offer.. once these things are in place and working for YOUR site, and for whatever clients you have remaining.. you should be able to jump your base price to an easy $750 and continue to increase with every addition job $50 to get you into the $1500 area. 10 sites a year $15,000 with $6,000 per year reoccuing looks a lot better than $5000 and $6000
                Thank you very much for this. This is exactly what I needed to read. I have wondered what different web designers do on a monthly basis to add value to their clients to then charge a monthly recurring fee for. I do not want to just have them pay me for maintenance and then it be nothing valuable for them. It may sound cliche but I really do enjoy helping my clients. I do not know enough about off page SEO to offer SEO services each month so I did not know what to offer except for simple email me what you want me to update on the website for you type things. I know that I need to learn more about SEO and I plan to especially after all of the helpful information you and more have posted here.

                I get a lot of my work from referrals. Most of my clients not only are happy when I build them the first website but years into the future and they often continue to refer clients to me for years. I have many of my first clients from years ago that still send me new referrals. For example I recently built the website for my local chamber of commerce and they were so happy with the work I did that within a month or two of that they then hired me to build a website for a local event that happens each year. I do good work and I charge an affordable price. It is very rare that I have one of my clients that is unhappy and that is usually because they wanted lots of free work and even that is rare because I am very detailed in the beginning about what is included with the project.

                I will absolutely do more research like you recommended and will figure out how to start structuring my web design services in a more monthly way like you mentioned. I have wanted to get into monthly billing but I thought it would be difficult to keep people paying month to month. I do my hosting fees yearly instead of monthly. Emailing them a monthly report is an excellent idea and something I have no problem doing. I really like the ideas you listed for emailing them myself to ask what they would like changed and make recommendations to them instead of waiting for them to email me when they want the website updated.

                You mentioned that you recommend that I write my monthly hosted clients 4 pieces of content then you said like a new blog post etc. Do you mean 4 blog posts per month? Or was the 4 a typo? Writing them 4 blog posts a month seems like a lot to do in addition to citations and unlimited updates for only $50.00 per month so I just want to ma sure I am reading that right.

                For years I have marketed my services as the affordable option and for years my websites were in the under $500.00 range typically around $300.00 but over the last year or two I have started having higher priced packages and have not had much problem with those. It is a learning process for me to start thinking to charge more for my services.

                Do you recommend that I give the $50.00 managed hosting with unlimited updates as an option or do I make it mandatory for websites I build? Right now I have my hosting as an option. I include like 3 or 6 months of free hosting with the initial website build as an option where they can either use that or their own hosting then when the free months are done I then charge the yearly fee to renew the hosting. Then some of the clients use their own hosting. Do you think I should offer it as an option or make it to where this is what it is to use my services. It would be like $500.00 up front for the initial website design then $50.00 per month going forward for managed hosting with unlimited website updates each month as well as one blog post written by me each month and 2-4 citations each month. I feel like if I make it an option where they could either do just the website or the website with the managed hosting option that many would pick the just the website option.

                I also wanted to ask you about the monthly billing. How do you make sure they pay each month? Do you set up the monthly payments in like paypal where it automatically requests the payment from their card each month or do you request an action each month from the client to make the payment? I do not want to be bugging the client a lot and feel like many of my clients like as little hands on as possible when it comes to their website.

                Thank you again so much for your help and recommendations. I honestly am learning so much here and will definitely give back to the community once I put these plans into motion. Thanks!
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                • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                  Originally Posted by TheTwoPointZero View Post

                  You mentioned that you recommend that I write my monthly hosted clients 4 pieces of content then you said like a new blog post etc. Do you mean 4 blog posts per month? Or was the 4 a typo? Writing them 4 blog posts a month seems like a lot to do in addition to citations and unlimited updates for only $50.00 per month so I just want to ma sure I am reading that right.
                  I ment like 4 a year... once every 3 months or so.. using the Event page as an example... a blog with photos from years past... This years dates time and place.... Most events like this are actually scheduled years in advance.. get the list and make a post event 2018, 2019, 2020 - a programmers note here, learn Event Schema ( https://schema.org/Event ) helps a ton

                  Originally Posted by TheTwoPointZero View Post

                  For years I have marketed my services as the affordable option and for years my websites were in the under $500.00 range typically around $300.00 but over the last year or two I have started having higher priced packages and have not had much problem with those. It is a learning process for me to start thinking to charge more for my services.
                  A simple easy way... with every job completed the next one is $50 more.. you will find the sweet spot, where you cross the line of 2 expensive. Claude writes about this often

                  Originally Posted by TheTwoPointZero View Post

                  Do you recommend that I give the $50.00 managed hosting with unlimited updates as an option or do I make it mandatory for websites I build? Right now I have my hosting as an option. I include like 3 or 6 months of free hosting with the initial website build as an option where they can either use that or their own hosting then when the free months are done I then charge the yearly fee to renew the hosting. Then some of the clients use their own hosting. Do you think I should offer it as an option or make it to where this is what it is to use my services. It would be like $500.00 up front for the initial website design then $50.00 per month going forward for managed hosting with unlimited website updates each month as well as one blog post written by me each month and 2-4 citations each month. I feel like if I make it an option where they could either do just the website or the website with the managed hosting option that many would pick the just the website option.
                  I provide that as mandatory... for me to have access to do the things I need to do to the site and provide the best service this is how I work. And again.. looking at this as a business... $50.00 adds up fast. I can say this.. this can also be used as a point to lessen the blow ( not that I suggest this ) but for a small site that is basically a rolodex site, you could drop down to $25.00 a month. But to be honest, I would rather drop the upfront cost by 50% before dropping the reoccurring.

                  Originally Posted by TheTwoPointZero View Post

                  I also wanted to ask you about the monthly billing. How do you make sure they pay each month? Do you set up the monthly payments in like paypal where it automatically requests the payment from their card each month or do you request an action each month from the client to make the payment? I do not want to be bugging the client a lot and feel like many of my clients like as little hands on as possible when it comes to their website.
                  I have started goofing around with an android app called " YardBook " it is intended for the lawn care industry but is easliy applyable for web design - or other services. The App sends a secure link for the client to insert a credit card, at the end of the month you complete the bill, and it sends a notice, you are deducting the charges and its done. I am finding this to be super super easy.

                  Originally Posted by TheTwoPointZero View Post

                  Thank you again so much for your help and recommendations. I honestly am learning so much here and will definitely give back to the community once I put these plans into motion. Thanks!
                  You are welcome, and thats awesome to hear! Best of luck man!
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    • Profile picture of the author TheTwoPointZero
      Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

      For those thinking of getting into lead generation
      for local businesses using digital marketing,
      you are going to get hit by "your leads are crap",
      "they are a bunch of price shoppers".

      The reason is your ads, your listings are in amongst
      your lead partner competitors.

      If you have a potential lead partner that you are talking to that has had an outsource partner presently or
      in the past, You are going to get hit with that barrier.

      What many will do to overcome it
      is to get the lead partner just try them for a nominal or no fee.

      However, it still doesn't solve the underlying problem,
      the source of your leads generated.

      Online the buyer is comparison shopping.

      You've been warned.

      Best,
      Ewen
      Thank you for your reply. How do you get the business that is paying for the post card to agree to let a different business have an ad on the back of their post card?
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      • Profile picture of the author savidge4
        Originally Posted by TheTwoPointZero View Post

        Thank you for your reply. How do you get the business that is paying for the post card to agree to let a different business have an ad on the back of their post card?
        Its pretty simple.. you are selling a card with say 2 spots available.. you KNOW what the cost is, and thats what you charge for their half... your half is then free... OR you sell the other half and double the investment.
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        • Profile picture of the author TheTwoPointZero
          Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

          Its pretty simple.. you are selling a card with say 2 spots available.. you KNOW what the cost is, and thats what you charge for their half... your half is then free... OR you sell the other half and double the investment.
          Thank you. This makes sense then. I guess then you would pick 2 niches that are similar but not competetive to the next one. Like dentist and chiropractor or painter and roofer. In this would you do the graphic design of the post card? If so I imagine that is something I could use fiverr for. Do you recommend they have me put a very attractive offer on the card or the usual call for a free estimate?

          Thanks!
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  • Profile picture of the author rudi
    Originally Posted by TheTwoPointZero View Post

    Hi. I am a web designer that is getting into lead generation. I have read many great posts on here about lead generation and I really appreciate all the help this forum gives those of us that are learning.

    My question is this. What would be a good first niche local business to start with for lead generation. I want to build a good website like mycitynamebusinesstype.com and then use what I have learned in web design to rank it well and then when leads do come in then try to either rent the website out for a monthly fee or just sell the leads for a fee per lead. My town is not very small but it is not big either and there is not a lot of competition for many types of business and I have noticed in building websites for local businesses that I have been able to rank them well with minimum effort so I figure that lead generation would be a great way to get some recurring revenue.

    I was thinking of starting with something like roofing. I want something that does not have a ton of corporate branch type competition and also one that each sale they do is large enough for the business to be willing to pay a decent fee per lead or to rent the website. If you think I should start with a different kind of local business please any advice would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks!
    Ok there are a few things to note here. The business that pay decent money for leads are generally highly competitive. This means that organic rankings can take a long time when you are competing with heavy duty competition.

    You also need to appreciate that a lot of these people when searching on Google will want to get right through to someone, not get a phone call 3 days later after the lead has finally been passed and paid for.

    If you have a good knowledge of SEO then your best bet would be to build, rank and then rent the websites to these people.

    If you rank for say "roofers London" or "roofing company London" etc etc then you simply approach competitors on Google for those terms and say you can rent the website and collect all of the leads for $$$$ amount each month.

    This way calls and emails go directly to them as a lot are wary that leads for sale have already been sold to competitors.
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    • Profile picture of the author TheTwoPointZero
      Originally Posted by rudi View Post

      Ok there are a few things to note here. The business that pay decent money for leads are generally highly competitive. This means that organic rankings can take a long time when you are competing with heavy duty competition.

      You also need to appreciate that a lot of these people when searching on Google will want to get right through to someone, not get a phone call 3 days later after the lead has finally been passed and paid for.

      If you have a good knowledge of SEO then your best bet would be to build, rank and then rent the websites to these people.

      If you rank for say "roofers London" or "roofing company London" etc etc then you simply approach competitors on Google for those terms and say you can rent the website and collect all of the leads for $$$$ amount each month.

      This way calls and emails go directly to them as a lot are wary that leads for sale have already been sold to competitors.
      Thank you for your reply. I am lucky in that my area is not tiny but not big enough to have much competition in local search results for the types of niches I plan to work on. For the leads I was going to use call tracking number that forwards directly to the client which would have them getting the call immediately while I can track it and collect the fee monthly. I am starting to think thoigh that rank and remt like you recommended may be the best for what I want to do.

      Thanks!
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  • Profile picture of the author TheTwoPointZero
    Do you have a particular online printer you would recommend?
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  • What you are really offering is leads for these business'e.
    Unfortunately, most web pages do not produce the bulk of leads.
    What you need to offer your prospective clients is a sales funnel that converts into leads i.e landing(optin page) to sales page scenario.
    Next stage would be to optimize their website for s.e.o and/or upgrade their existing website(that's where our web building skills come in).
    Hope this helps, good luck.
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  • Profile picture of the author TheTwoPointZero
    Thank you for your reply and the extra information. Doing 4 blog posts per year makes sense then for the $50.00 per month. What do you think about offering different package options. Like

    Package 1 - $500.00 - Includes basic website design

    Package 2 - $800.00 - $1000.00(not sure which price is best yet but you get the idea) - Includes website design plus in depth search engine optimization of website. Where I go in and do a lot of extra work for on page SEO. Headings alt tags add in SEO titles and descriptions etc. for every page. Not saying I wouldn't do some of that in the less expensive option but obviously if they spend more I can in turn spend more time optimizing the website. Explain it as the premium SEO upgraded package or something like that.

    Then two options to pick from for monthly hosting and maintenance like

    Plan 1 - $50.00 per month - unlimited website updates plus 2 local SEO citations per month and 4 blog posts per year

    Plan 2 - $80.00 or so per month - unlimited website updates plus 4 local SEO citations per month and 1 blog post per month

    Or something along those lines? I think I can get the blog posts written for an inexpensive price and add value to the client at the same time while making more money each month.

    I like what you mentioned about increasing $50.00 each time on the base package price until I find the sweet spot for that pricing. I also like what you mentioned about making it mandatory where this is my pricing and it includes hosting and maintenance for every package. Do you have situations where people say they want no maintenance and do not want to pay a monthly fee? If you do do you still do it? Or maybe in those situations say that is fine but then double the base website build price so instead of $500.00 it would be $1000.00 for the base website if they do not want monthly maintenance or hosting - not something I would offer unless they tell me they are not willing to move forward if there is a monthly fee and then they would not get the updates or hosting or maintenance?

    Thank you for mentioning the app you use for billing. I will check that out. Thank you again for all of this information. You truly have been so very helpful here and these ideas you have given me may be just what I need to take my business to the next level. I am really excited. Thanks!
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    • Profile picture of the author animal44
      Originally Posted by TheTwoPointZero View Post

      Package 1 - $500.00 - Includes basic website design

      Package 2 - $800.00 - $1000.00(not sure which price is best yet but you get the idea) - Includes website design plus in depth search engine optimization of website. Where I go in and do a lot of extra work for on page SEO. Headings alt tags add in SEO titles and descriptions etc. for every page. Not saying I wouldn't do some of that in the less expensive option but obviously if they spend more I can in turn spend more time optimizing the website. Explain it as the premium SEO upgraded package or something like that.

      Then two options to pick from for monthly hosting and maintenance like

      Plan 1 - $50.00 per month - unlimited website updates plus 2 local SEO citations per month and 4 blog posts per year

      Plan 2 - $80.00 or so per month - unlimited website updates plus 4 local SEO citations per month and 1 blog post per month
      Wow. You like working for peanuts...!

      They way to get people paying you over and over is to directly relate your efforts to the increase in sales. And make yourself indispensable.

      Example: I create packages and then promote them through email and direct mail to my clients own customer lists. And I charge a retainer plus a percentage of sales.
      I've just been looking back at a client who was already doing email marketing. He was making 250-300 sales per month.
      He was skeptical. He challenged me to do better. 500 per month. My first campaign returned 1279 sales in four days...
      And these were more profitable sales as they weren't centred around the latest sale.
      My commissions were over 60k... In four days...
      I still do his email marketing...

      Another example: I took a high street retailer from 30k profits to over 300k. She pays me over 300k per year for my services. A combination of fixed fees, licensing fees and percent of sales.
      Does she care that she pays me over 300k? Not really. She knows without me she's back to longer hours for much less profit.

      What's more, I took what we did for her and found another similar store outside her area and used the same funnels and advertising materials over again. And earned another big fee. I could've kept on doing that until I had covered the whole country

      Is this hard?

      I did a protege program last year and the year before and taught this stuff to people who had no sales and marketing experience. All made loadsa money.....
      My first protege made over 100k on her first client in her first month...
      Even in my own early days, the commissions from small clients tended to be 10k +

      How do you do this?
      Buy yourself a copy of Magnetic Marketing. Or go to this site.
      Swipe-Worthy » Swipe File Archive » Marketing & Copywriting Examples
      In other words, find yourself a collection of successful Ads.

      Find Ads related to the particular niche and study them. They'll tell you what you really want to sell (hint it's not the product ).
      And use that info to write your emails.
      Write them like your writing to in individual, a friend.
      Make them entertaining. This is important. Entertaining is more important than the sales pitch. Make people happy and they'll gladly give you money
      If you're not very good at writing, find someone who is. Most of my stuff is written by someone else.
      Then get out there, find a list and start sending them out.
      Always be testing different subjects and offers.
      When you get a successful campaign, use it again and with other clients.
      You'll learn far more by doing this than you'll ever learn by asking on forums...

      And another thing. where ever possible, license your stuff rather than selling it. You'll make far more money with far less effort...
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      • Profile picture of the author savidge4
        Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

        Wow. You like working for peanuts...!
        wow really? Yeah sure the guy is working for peanuts but I am guiding him on how to make more. honestly if your not helping.. then dont say anything.

        let me throw this at you.. all that money you make.... you have clients with e-mail lists and you leverager those list to provide sales for yourself, and your client.. I get it, Hey thats great.. guess what.. there would not be an e-mail list if your client didnt have a website.. you would make NOTHING.

        To make the world go round, there has to be service providers from the bottom to the top. Like myself, I believe TwoPoints enjoys what they do... dont bash it bro.. you need to embrace the whole thing.. without guys like them and myself, you would not be where you are at.

        A point of contrast here... I EASILY make 20X what twopoints does.. same base service, but I have developed a business model that provides results over services. Have you seen me bash the guy in any way? NO.. I am sharing my knowledge to make their lives better.

        The next time you are off driving your sweet little car and you stop in to get a coffee.. or tea.. do me a favor and bash the person behind the counter for making peanuts like you just did in that last post.. and see how far it gets you.
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        • Profile picture of the author TheTwoPointZero
          Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

          wow really? Yeah sure the guy is working for peanuts but I am guiding him on how to make more. honestly if your not helping.. then dont say anything.

          let me throw this at you.. all that money you make.... you have clients with e-mail lists and you leverager those list to provide sales for yourself, and your client.. I get it, Hey thats great.. guess what.. there would not be an e-mail list if your client didnt have a website.. you would make NOTHING.

          To make the world go round, there has to be service providers from the bottom to the top. Like myself, I believe TwoPoints enjoys what they do... dont bash it bro.. you need to embrace the whole thing.. without guys like them and myself, you would not be where you are at.

          A point of contrast here... I EASILY make 20X what twopoints does.. same base service, but I have developed a business model that provides results over services. Have you seen me bash the guy in any way? NO.. I am sharing my knowledge to make their lives better.

          The next time you are off driving your sweet little car and you stop in to get a coffee.. or tea.. do me a favor and bash the person behind the counter for making peanuts like you just did in that last post.. and see how far it gets you.
          I definitely appreciate you taking the time to help me grow my business. The information you have given will be put to good use.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by TheTwoPointZero View Post

      Package 1 - $500.00 - Includes basic website design

      Package 2 - $800.00 - $1000.00(not sure which price is best yet but you get the idea) - Includes website design plus in depth search engine optimization of website. Where I go in and do a lot of extra work for on page SEO. Headings alt tags add in SEO titles and descriptions etc. for every page. Not saying I wouldn't do some of that in the less expensive option but obviously if they spend more I can in turn spend more time optimizing the website. Explain it as the premium SEO upgraded package or something like that.
      At this point, you of all people should be able to answer WHY do people and business' want / NEED a website? To the point that you figured out business' need more leads, and are / were looking into building sites for lead generation. If the PAIN for business is getting people to buy their stuff how can you provide a pretty website that is basically a place holder? Drop " BASIC " from your vocabulary.

      Start at $750 and use package 2 as your base. EVERY site you build should have the ability to provide results... having on-page SEO in place is going to do that. Not only will they have a site.. but it should be somewhere on page 2 at the least.

      $1000 to $1500 should be the next step.. all the onpage and then walking thru adding Google business listing.. some G+ content ensuring they are listed on Google Maps And explain all of this as a Premium results based set-up

      Originally Posted by TheTwoPointZero View Post

      Then two options to pick from for monthly hosting and maintenance like

      Plan 1 - $50.00 per month - unlimited website updates plus 2 local SEO citations per month and 4 blog posts per year

      Plan 2 - $80.00 or so per month - unlimited website updates plus 4 local SEO citations per month and 1 blog post per month

      Or something along those lines? I think I can get the blog posts written for an inexpensive price and add value to the client at the same time while making more money each month.
      a good starting point here. I personally would write the content myself.. Content itself is a variable in SEO no? who better to write it than someone that understands the needs on that end - the end that is really most important right?

      Originally Posted by TheTwoPointZero View Post

      Do you have situations where people say they want no maintenance and do not want to pay a monthly fee? If you do do you still do it? Or maybe in those situations say that is fine but then double the base website build price so instead of $500.00 it would be $1000.00 for the base website if they do not want monthly maintenance or hosting - not something I would offer unless they tell me they are not willing to move forward if there is a monthly fee and then they would not get the updates or hosting or maintenance?
      There are instances, it happens, for whatever reason... but set a value for changes well in advance... Im not suggesting that you use what I charge ( I charge $100 an hour with a 2 hour minimum ), but you want to make it steep enough to make them think it may be worth hosting vs having to call you with a change.

      I don't charge more for a site that wishes not to partake in the hosting program.. I do mention that the transfer charge if they wish to enter into the hosting program will be waived if they choose to do so.. IE $200 charge for a change vs just paying to let me host... I tend to get those customers back.

      Originally Posted by TheTwoPointZero View Post

      Thank you for mentioning the app you use for billing. I will check that out. Thank you again for all of this information. You truly have been so very helpful here and these ideas you have given me may be just what I need to take my business to the next level. I am really excited. Thanks!
      Another something to read when you have time... go check out https://incomebully.com/ Nathan / IamNameless as he is known here knows a kick ton about the growth you are wanting to make.. as well as is pretty on top of local SEO and the like. you will for sure like his articles, and you may consider looking into blueprint course.
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      • Profile picture of the author TheTwoPointZero
        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        At this point, you of all people should be able to answer WHY do people and business' want / NEED a website? To the point that you figured out business' need more leads, and are / were looking into building sites for lead generation. If the PAIN for business is getting people to buy their stuff how can you provide a pretty website that is basically a place holder? Drop " BASIC " from your vocabulary.

        Start at $750 and use package 2 as your base. EVERY site you build should have the ability to provide results... having on-page SEO in place is going to do that. Not only will they have a site.. but it should be somewhere on page 2 at the least.

        $1000 to $1500 should be the next step.. all the onpage and then walking thru adding Google business listing.. some G+ content ensuring they are listed on Google Maps And explain all of this as a Premium results based set-up

        a good starting point here. I personally would write the content myself.. Content itself is a variable in SEO no? who better to write it than someone that understands the needs on that end - the end that is really most important right?

        There are instances, it happens, for whatever reason... but set a value for changes well in advance... Im not suggesting that you use what I charge ( I charge $100 an hour with a 2 hour minimum ), but you want to make it steep enough to make them think it may be worth hosting vs having to call you with a change.

        I don't charge more for a site that wishes not to partake in the hosting program.. I do mention that the transfer charge if they wish to enter into the hosting program will be waived if they choose to do so.. IE $200 charge for a change vs just paying to let me host... I tend to get those customers back.

        Another something to read when you have time... go check out https://incomebully.com/ Nathan / IamNameless as he is known here knows a kick ton about the growth you are wanting to make.. as well as is pretty on top of local SEO and the like. you will for sure like his articles, and you may consider looking into blueprint course.
        Thank you for your replies. You are exactly right. I need to make every website have those seo services included which while providing more value to the clients gives me even more opportunity to work with them in the future when they see results from the initial website build. I like your idea of then having a premium package available with the extra blog posts and Google places and G+ and so on. I am glad you mentioned that. I have had clients that have asked about Google places and I offered to do it for my hourly fee but I really like your idea of building it into the premium package as instead of only doing it if they ask put that thought in their head during the initial purchase.

        You are right about me writing the blog posts for them. I just do not have much experience with writing copy though I know it is very useful. I was thinking I could outsource to a website like fiverr for a gig that knows I want it written with SEO in mind and give them a few keywords to focus on but I will definitely think about writing it myself. Especially if I can hire a sales person then that would give me a lot more time to do stuff like that which I would like way more than selling. I know I need to get better at selling and I will work on that.

        What you said about the businesses that do not want to do the hosting plan makes sense. I will do that instead of charging the higher fee like I had mentioned. I think you are right on that. I think I have read some of the posts nameless has done here on the forum and will definitely check that website out. Thank you for the link.

        Thank you again so much for all of your help and the information you have given me. I hope to one day be able to return the favor. Thanks!
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  • Profile picture of the author offmarketinvestor
    if you have to ask you shouldn't be doing it
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  • Profile picture of the author TheTwoPointZero
    Thank you for your reply. Yes I know my fees are much lower than most people do charge. I have been working my way up from doing $250.00 websites for years and I am now in the $500.00 - $5000.00 range though most of those are around $500.00. I have a few larger clients that I charge more than $1000.00 for. I am a one man web design firm so the really big real complicated websites require much more than I can provide. I am learning more all the time and as I learn I offer more services which is what these posts have been about. Savidge and Ewen as well as many more have given me great information here that I plan to put into action. I am already thinking about how to rework my packages around this new type of payment structure that Savidge recommended. I am also in the process of figuring out how to do a 9x12 direct mail eddm campaign that was inspired by Bob Ross on this forum as well as from the posts from Ewen which are very interesting and something I want to try.

    It sounds like you have been very successful with your marketing. I hope I can one day get to that level. I do not think my clients have email lists now. I do not know anything about sales funnels and generating email lists. I did cold emailing a few years ago and it is not something I want to go back to so I would need to market to an established email list. I know I need to learn how to generate a list for clients as that would be a great way to add more services I can then charge for though I am not at that point yet.

    I want to greatly expand my firm and hire sales people. I already have an office with a desk and computer and phone for them I just need to get to the revenue level to support that. Here until the last few weeks I was planning on hiring a person to do cold calling for me for web design services. I lack skills in finding the clients for web design which is why I want to hire someone to do that for me and let me run the business and do the web design work and manage the clients. Once the clients get to me I can sell the packages very well but I need the hot leads for that. Though that is a different conversation.

    I have looked at the website you mentioned and really like that. I will look through the ads and get some ideas on how to write the copy for my advertisements. Thank you for the ideas.
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  • Profile picture of the author TheTwoPointZero
    I agree with you on that. I do not have much experience with sales outside of what I have done to get my business with web design and a lot of that was through Craigslist and then referrals over the years.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Amazing thread!!! Have been engrossed in it for a week. I have literally tons of experience in generating leads for roofers.... But it's not an area you would be interested in. Great topic. I'm reading because you offer a cool thought, and mostly because Ewen and Savidge are blowing me away w their input.
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    • Profile picture of the author TheTwoPointZero
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Amazing thread!!! Have been engrossed in it for a week. I have literally tons of experience in generating leads for roofers.... But it's not an area you would be interested in. Great topic. I'm reading because you offer a cool thought, and mostly because Ewen and Savidge are blowing me away w their input.
      Thank you for your reply. Yes Savidge and Ewen have been very helpful and generous with their recommendations.

      Why do you think I would not be interested in generating leads for roofers?
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  • Profile picture of the author jasminetea202
    I think you can try those outreach softwares such as ninja outreach etc. those services provide huge database and i am sure that you can find a lot of roofers there. don't need to search one by one
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  • Profile picture of the author SuboxoneDoctor
    What town are you referring to? Any reason it has to be the town your in and not just a random town that your able to indetify as an ideal location (high demand for specific niche , low competition , easily identifiable strategic partner(s) to work with to monetize etc.)?
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  • Profile picture of the author Mabyn Shingleton
    You certainly had an abundance of response. I, for one, totally did not understand much of what one responder wrote/was trying to advise. I think "TheTwoPointZero" comments are right on target. Hope you listen to them.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andrewsfm
    I used to do it for limo businesses and it worked extremely well! Great little niche to get into and can get ranked on Google pretty quick! Then you have private dentists etc.
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    • Profile picture of the author TheTwoPointZero
      Originally Posted by Andrewsfm View Post

      I used to do it for limo businesses and it worked extremely well! Great little niche to get into and can get ranked on Google pretty quick! Then you have private dentists etc.
      Thanks. That is a good idea. I may look into limo businesses. For private dentists do you mean traveling dentists that do house visits or what?
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      • Profile picture of the author ryback888
        Keep us updated on what you try please, I am also looking to get into lead generation
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  • Profile picture of the author SmartClicks
    Hi,
    Lead generation for local businesses is a good idea. Roofers, dentists, lawyers are usually the typical targets for most companys and the competition might be fierce. There are some other smaller niches like restaurants, solar providers etc that you can look into.

    That being said, you can definitely still do well with roofers...regardless of the niche you choose try to identify their pain points..what do they need? what problems do they have that you can solve and approach them with a free sample of what you can do. For instance you can offer a free website optimization video explaining what you think needs to be improved. People usually get defensive when they sense that you're just "selling" try to offer a solution or help first to warm the up to you and then pitch your services.

    Hope this helps
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  • Profile picture of the author JohnVianny
    Why don't you make this business for your own and try to sell products in your area, making a joint venture with locals markets and ask for a percentage of sales?
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  • Profile picture of the author davidricherd
    To promote your business in related groups and communities can help to increase potential customer for your business.
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  • Profile picture of the author itstrisha
    Lead generation requires a lot of effort to put in. There are various ways to generate leads. Since you have a website then you must create a landing page on it where there is a short form placed to generate leads. This could be the best and easier way to generate leads as you are a web designer.
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  • Profile picture of the author Catchonco
    Marketing works with Sales to set up critical criteria for a lead division and scoring. Ideally, you have just made a far-reaching list of buyer personas and a nitty-gritty buyer journey for every persona. Now plan how you will catch this information through landing pages and forms, using a dynamic profiling approach, so conversion rates are kept high. Recognize appropriate pages and occasions that, if visited or activated, also enable you to update lead profiles during the buyer journey. Access LinkedIn, Data.com, Hoovers and different business information destinations you can use to cross-reference leads and further build up their profiles.
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  • Profile picture of the author SamRiton
    Interesting thread. I guess many people have the same issue of selling leads in the right way though they are good at generating quality leads.

    Btw, I'm from Bangladesh and new here in the forum. Wish to learn and share a lot.

    Thanks.
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