Who here has done the 9x12 post card eddm direct mail advertisements for local businesses?

34 replies
Hi. I read a post by bob ross here on the forum a year or so ago about doing a 9x12 post card eddm direct mail co op advertisement where you sell spots on your post card to local businesses that want to reach 5000 or 10000 households in their town for as little as around 5 cents per household.

Does anyone still do this? I was wondering of those that tried it how many found it to be a viable business option over time or if it was something that worked well a few times then fizzled out.

I am planning to do one of these myself for my local town here in the next month or so and was hoping to hear from some that have tried it.

Thanks!
#9x12 #advertisements #businesses #card #direct #eddm #local #mail #post
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  • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
    Originally Posted by TheTwoPointZero View Post

    Hi. I read a post by bob ross here on the forum a year or so ago about doing a 9x12 post card eddm direct mail co op advertisement where you sell spots on your post card to local businesses that want to reach 5000 or 10000 households in their town for as little as around 5 cents per household.

    Does anyone still do this? I was wondering of those that tried it how many found it to be a viable business option over time or if it was something that worked well a few times then fizzled out.

    I am planning to do one of these myself for my local town here in the next month or so and was hoping to hear from some that have tried it.

    Thanks!
    Here is some advice. Go do it. Get out in your community and get started, find out for yourself what it is all about.

    We experienced at this can tell you both the horror stories, and the easy-peasy profits, BUT, you have no idea of our level of experience. Many in this sub-forum are seasoned professional sales people.

    To us, selling is like breathing, something you don't give a lot of thought to, you just do, after years of learning and doing.

    If you lack direct sales experience, you need to know first hand what you will encounter.

    I'll give you a couple of thoughts. It will probably take you longer than you imagine right now, for several reasons, the first one is...finding the person who can say yes.

    You have to talk to the person who can pay for the ad, mostly the owner or manager. They tend to be elusive.

    #2 Probably you will be running around more than you think you will.

    I'm sure others will give you both atta boys and dire warnings, but the only way to know is if you get out there and start. You really only need a sample card, easy to come by...and a way to take money (order form-graphics layout).

    You will need an experienced printer, and EDDM mailer if you are not going to do it yourself. Bob Ross can do it all for you, except the selling part.

    So, before you read too much here, why not take a few hours and go call upon some local businesses and just do a survey, ask if they would like to be contacted IF you decide to do one...no commitment, no money exchanges, but you will get a feel for

    1) Getting in to see decision makers
    2) The run around
    3) Price points (assuming you have this lined up)
    4) Enthusiasm for the project.

    I don't have any research based numbers, but I'd bet that 8 out of 10 who started this business are now doing something else. But you may be one of the 2. I've personally spoken to over a dozen who got started, and today, only one does a modified version of it.

    GordonJ

    PS. One of the most successful modifications has been: smaller cards, fewer ads, quicker turn around. Fewer mailed.
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    • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
      Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

      PS. One of the most successful modifications has been: smaller cards, fewer ads, quicker turn around. Fewer mailed.
      This post is pure gold! The only quibble I would have is that I'd guess 98 out of 100 people that tried this went on to something else. :-)

      That said. you won't find a better system then what Jake (Bob Ross) offers. BTW - he has a staff of cold callers that will set-up appointments for you. Very reasonably priced, too.
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      • Originally Posted by OptedIn View Post

        This post is pure gold! The only quibble I would have is that I'd guess 98 out of 100 people that tried this went on to something else. :-)

        That said. you won't find a better system then what Jake (Bob Ross) offers. BTW - he has a staff of cold callers that will set-up appointments for you. Very reasonably priced, too.
        Thank you for your reply. I may try that. I found a reasonably priced online printer but I will check his prices first. How do I find out about what he offers?
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        • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
          Originally Posted by TheTwoPointZero View Post

          Thank you for your reply. I may try that. I found a reasonably priced online printer but I will check his prices first. How do I find out about what he offers?
          Not sure if it's OK to post his contact data in a post, even though I am NOT an affiliate.

          If you are interested, PM me and I will give it to you.

          Cheers.
          Signature

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    • Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

      Here is some advice. Go do it. Get out in your community and get started, find out for yourself what it is all about.

      We experienced at this can tell you both the horror stories, and the easy-peasy profits, BUT, you have no idea of our level of experience. Many in this sub-forum are seasoned professional sales people.

      To us, selling is like breathing, something you don't give a lot of thought to, you just do, after years of learning and doing.

      If you lack direct sales experience, you need to know first hand what you will encounter.

      I'll give you a couple of thoughts. It will probably take you longer than you imagine right now, for several reasons, the first one is...finding the person who can say yes.

      You have to talk to the person who can pay for the ad, mostly the owner or manager. They tend to be elusive.

      #2 Probably you will be running around more than you think you will.

      I'm sure others will give you both atta boys and dire warnings, but the only way to know is if you get out there and start. You really only need a sample card, easy to come by...and a way to take money (order form-graphics layout).

      You will need an experienced printer, and EDDM mailer if you are not going to do it yourself. Bob Ross can do it all for you, except the selling part.

      So, before you read too much here, why not take a few hours and go call upon some local businesses and just do a survey, ask if they would like to be contacted IF you decide to do one...no commitment, no money exchanges, but you will get a feel for

      1) Getting in to see decision makers
      2) The run around
      3) Price points (assuming you have this lined up)
      4) Enthusiasm for the project.

      I don't have any research based numbers, but I'd bet that 8 out of 10 who started this business are now doing something else. But you may be one of the 2. I've personally spoken to over a dozen who got started, and today, only one does a modified version of it.

      GordonJ

      PS. One of the most successful modifications has been: smaller cards, fewer ads, quicker turn around. Fewer mailed.
      Thank you for your reply and for the recommendations. I have a way to advertise to the email list of business of owners of my local chamber of commerce which is what I was going to try for this. I was thinking of offering something like $50.00 or $100.00 off your next postcard fee to anyone that refers a new business to me that buys a spot on the card.

      I like the idea of possibly a smaller one with less advertisers and maybe less going out and I may try that if the big one does not work but the main selling point for the 9x12 is that it is so big and bigger than most mail in the box.

      Thanks!
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  • All I can add....

    I receive the mailer at my store and at home. It's always full. And I know the sales rep is making money.

    If you are going to go this route, start by seeing the business owners that are currently advertising in other direct mail mailers...coupon magazines, Val-Pak, that sort of thing.

    These people are already sold on the idea of direct mail advertising. It''s possible to fill your entire card by only seeing these Highly Likely To Buy prospects.
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    • Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      All I can add....

      I receive the mailer at my store and at home. It's always full. And I know the sales rep is making money.

      If you are going to go this route, start by seeing the business owners that are currently advertising in other direct mail mailers...coupon magazines, Val-Pak, that sort of thing.

      These people are already sold on the idea of direct mail advertising. It''s possible to fill your entire card by only seeing these Highly Likely To Buy prospects.
      Thank you for your reply. I really like your idea to try val pak and coupon mailer businesses first since they are already buying direct mail advertising. I will try that. Thanks!
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  • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
    Why are you moving away from the 6 ad format?

    Are you doing a pay per call revenue model
    or ad placement revenue model?

    Best,
    Ewen
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    • Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

      Why are you moving away from the 6 ad format?

      Are you doing a pay per call revenue model
      or ad placement revenue model?

      Best,
      Ewen
      I was thinking about trying the bob ross 9x12 advertising co op. I was thinking that the fact that it is so big would make it easier to sell though the fact that it is big makes you need to sell more to cover the cost. I was thinking about trying to sell 14 - 15 spots on it for around $400.00 - $500.00 each. If I find that the big one is hard to sell I may go to a smaller size and send it to less than 10,000 people. 10,000 sounds like a lot of post cards to deal with for my first time.
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      • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
        Originally Posted by TheTwoPointZero View Post

        I was thinking about trying the bob ross 9x12 advertising co op. I was thinking that the fact that it is so big would make it easier to sell though the fact that it is big makes you need to sell more to cover the cost. I was thinking about trying to sell 14 - 15 spots on it for around $400.00 - $500.00 each. If I find that the big one is hard to sell I may go to a smaller size and send it to less than 10,000 people. 10,000 sounds like a lot of post cards to deal with for my first time.
        Those that start out doing the 6 ad format tend to stay with it.

        One way to do it is to get 2 to 4 advertisers
        to cover your costs for a 5,000 mailing
        then advertise
        a space being available on each side.

        Many who put out these shared postcards get biz owners wanting in
        once they get them at their home.

        I say 2 to 4 advertisers to cover your costs.

        One or two may take a spot on each side,
        if you offer it to them.

        So the first mailing is your lead generator
        to get advertisers or pay per call partners calling you.

        It's so much more manageable.

        Best,
        Ewen
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        • Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

          Those that start out doing the 6 ad format tend to stay with it.

          One way to do it is to get 2 to 4 advertisers
          to cover your costs for a 5,000 mailing
          then advertise
          a space being available on each side.

          Many who put out these shared postcards get biz owners wanting in
          once they get them at their home.

          I say 2 to 4 advertisers to cover your costs.

          One or two may take a spot on each side,
          if you offer it to them.

          So the first mailing is your lead generator
          to get advertisers or pay per call partners calling you.

          It's so much more manageable.

          Best,
          Ewen
          Thank you for your reply. That does sound more manageable. What size do you do for those?
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          • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
            Originally Posted by TheTwoPointZero View Post

            Thank you for your reply. That does sound more manageable. What size do you do for those?
            6.5 inch x 12 inch for EDDM
            6X11 inch for adressed mail.

            Here's a layout..



            In this case, it was the property investor, bottom left,
            who used those advertisers to cover his costs,
            so he got free advertising.
            It was the painter on the card who got those 43 phone calls in 14 days.

            Best,
            Ewen
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  • Thank you for posting that. It is very helpful to see the layout like that. I bet this size is a lot less expensive than the 9x12 as well. Thanks!
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  • Ewen you mentioned trying a 5000 mailing instead of 10000. Gordon and Optedin also mentioned that a smaller mailing may be more successful.

    I am wondering why you feel that is better? Is it because the cost is then lower so you can then charge the business less? I was thinking that getting the card in more hands would hopefully then turn into more sales for the business which makes them feel better about the advertising and possibly buy it again in the future. I think the coupon mailer envelopes do mailings of 10k or 20k etc. so if you are trying to sell to people that buy from them and people like valpak how do you do the comparison if you are sending to less people?

    It seems like if you try to sell to a valpak customer that pays $300.00 to send to 10,000 people how do you sell them a spot on the card for $300.00 to only send to 5000? Now I know obviously the 9x12 or even slightly smaller card like 6.5x12 would be more visible to the people that receive it since it is right in their face when they take it out of the mailbox versus in an envelope like the coupon mailers usually are.

    I had originally thought of buying a mailbox and putting a stack of mail inside it with one of the coupon mailer envelopes and the big 9x12 sample postcard and then open it in front of them and ask which one do they think is more noticeable. Even without the mailbox prop I could hand them a stack of mail with the big postcard in it and they would likely see the difference. My question is if I do the 5000 mailing instead of the 10000 do you think they will ask why would they want to pay the same price to mail to less people?
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    • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
      Originally Posted by TheTwoPointZero View Post

      My question is if I do the 5000 mailing instead of the 10000 do you think they will ask why would they want to pay the same price to mail to less people?
      I must be missing something. Why would you be charging the same price for both mailings? The total costs for each package is vastly different. Not sure, without looking at the difference in postcard printing, but the EDDM mailing is charged by the piece, virtually cutting the cost in half.
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      • Originally Posted by OptedIn View Post

        I must be missing something. Why would you be charging the same price for both mailings? The total costs for each package is vastly different. Not sure, without looking at the difference in postcard printing, but the EDDM mailing is charged by the piece, virtually cutting the cost in half.
        I would likely charge $300.00 to mail to 5000 people or $500.00 to mail to 10000 people. When I said the same price I meant when I am talking to people that pay $300.00 to mail with the coupon mailer envelope or valpak to 10000 people if I was to offer to mail the 9x12 or 6.5x12 to 5000 people for $300.00 would they not ask why would they be willing to pay $300.00 with me to mail to 5000 people instead of $300.00 to valpak to mail to 10000.
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  • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
    Those 43 phone calls in 14 days I keep harping on...
    well that was from 1 5,000 mailing of that card I posted above.

    Now about Valpak.

    Chalk and cheese, apples and oranges comparisons.

    Of that 20,000 mailer,
    how many will read the ad buried in with all the other advertisers?

    10%?

    Now you are looking at 2,000.

    Less than half of the redership
    you are getting them.

    Are Valpak letting their advertisers competitors in?

    Yep.

    You, no.

    What price would Valpak charge if they let an advertiser place an ad on the cover or back page?

    Jake put together a training recently
    on handle all the common pitfalls you'll encounter.

    I'd suggest you ask him for it and buy it.

    Buy samples of the 6 ad postcard or what he calls a m6.

    Some of his members have them for sale.

    If you plan to go visit biz owners, those samples do the selling.

    If you are going to use phone and email,
    then have a digital version to send
    will make a big difference.

    Best,
    Ewen
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    • Profile picture of the author animal44
      Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

      Those 43 phone calls in 14 days I keep harping on...
      well that was from 1 5,000 mailing of that card I posted above.
      OP, as a comparison, scaling down to 5000, in a recent campaign, my client got 190 actual sales in 4 days. The follow up nearly doubled that...

      Which result do you think your clients would prefer...?

      And I assure you, my way is easier... easier to lean and easier to implement...

      As an alternative to Bob Ross's stuff, get ye over to Jay Abraham's site.
      Sign up to his mailing list.
      Watch his youtube channel,
      Take a look at 50 shades of Jay.

      This stuff is free, however it will lead you to financial freedom, clients who will fall over themselves to work with you, and better sex... (Just kidding on than last one)

      Especially take note of his strategic alliances/host beneficiary stuff. This stuff is a million times better than the advice you're getting from this forum. You can research Jay to find out his history and his level of success.

      I implore you, for your own sake, and that of your clients, to at least test this stuff out against the advice you're getting from this forum...
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      • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
        Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

        OP, as a comparison, scaling down to 5000, in a recent campaign, my client got 190 actual sales in 4 days. The follow up nearly doubled that...

        Which result do you think your clients would prefer...?

        And I assure you, my way is easier... easier to lean and easier to implement...
        Can you tell me how it works for home improvement contractors?

        Whether it be host beneficiary, endorsed mailing,
        cross selling,
        trading those that didn't buy, straight joint venture deals.

        One of Jay's clients that went to his small group at his beachouse
        came away wanting to do what you say,
        but had no clear path to implement after investing a sizable amount with Jay.

        He is in the home improvement sector.

        I've corresponded with him via email,
        that's how I know..

        Best,
        Ewen

        P.S. A few years ago one of GKIC competition winners
        bought out other businesses that go on a home property
        so that they all could cross sell.

        It became a virtous circle of cross selling.

        But that's not we are talking about here.
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        • Profile picture of the author eccj
          Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

          Can you tell me how it works for home improvement contractors?

          Whether it be host beneficiary, endorsed mailing,
          cross selling,
          trading those that didn't buy, straight joint venture deals.

          One of Jay's clients that went to his small group at his beachouse
          came away wanting to do what you say,
          but had no clear path to implement after investing a sizable amount with Jay.

          He is in the home improvement sector.

          I've corresponded with him via email,
          that's how I know..

          Best,
          Ewen

          P.S. A few years ago one of GKIC competition winners
          bought out other businesses that go on a home property
          so that they all could cross sell.

          It became a virtous circle of cross selling.

          But that's not we are talking about here.
          Just throwing this out so take it for what it's worth.

          A BUNCH of home service companies are getting into competitor areas. The bug killer now does termites and the termite guy kills roaches and they both do yard work and the yard work guy does home improvement and the roofer does electrical and so on.....

          In my area there is a guy on the radio advertising his bug killing service. It's really hokey stuff. Now at the end of the commercial he starts going on about all the other stuff he does; cutting down trees, little fixes, decks, porches, bla bla.

          The largest bug killer in my area just about does it all as well and is a big advertiser.

          You just know this eats up the guy driving around in his truck listening to the radio.

          Now if I thought I could benefit from getting the list of other home service companies, I would go to all of the one service home businesses and say "hey this jack*** is stepping on your turf..... who the **** does he think he is??? We'll show him."

          Then you could JV, do M3's, whatever.

          Beside it really is better to go wide than deep with a business if you care about your equity value.
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          • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
            Originally Posted by eccj View Post


            Now if I thought I could benefit from getting the list of other home service companies, I would go to all of the one service home businesses and say "hey this jack*** is stepping on your turf..... who the **** does he think he is??? We'll show him."

            Then you could JV, do M3's, whatever.
            Yes, the idea of home improvement contractors
            coming together to do a shared/co-op
            mailing is ideal.

            Since they aren't doing it, then this is the opportunity for others to create that.

            Say get 4 to cover costs and the creater of the co-op.
            Profits come from 2 others who are late but want to get on it,
            which usually happens.

            It could be either from ad space sold or a lead gen/pay per call basis.

            Best,
            Ewen
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  • Profile picture of the author animal44
    Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

    Can you tell me how it works for home improvement contractors?
    Not an area that I work in. I don't do tradesmen and such like. About the dodgiest industry you can get involved with... :-)

    But if I were to speculate, maybe an alliance with property managers. They use all sorts of contractors.
    Maybe estate agents. People buy a new home and redecorate. Or buy an investment property and renovate.
    Maybe project managers who manage renovations.
    Or architects.

    Of course, there isn't a contractor in the land who could handle all the potential sales from a large list. However, if the OP had several roofing contractors and allocated the work in rotation, he'd be making more money for less work than by selling advertising on a 9x12.
    And, even more importantly, he'd have a number of very happy clients :-)

    Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

    One of Jay's clients that went to his small group at his beachouse
    came away wanting to do what you say,
    but had no clear path to implement after investing a sizable amount with Jay.
    I've heard this from others. I had a grounding and experience before I came across Jay, so maybe that has something to do with it. Although there is the story he tells of a woman who went to one of his seminars and went away and implemented what he said and made 1.2 million in 6 months...
    I think a lot depends on your personality and your drive.
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    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

      Not an area that I work in. I don't do tradesmen and such like. About the dodgiest industry you can get involved with... :-)

      But if I were to speculate, maybe an alliance with property managers. They use all sorts of contractors.
      Maybe estate agents. People buy a new home and redecorate. Or buy an investment property and renovate.
      Maybe project managers who manage renovations.
      Or architects.

      Of course, there isn't a contractor in the land who could handle all the potential sales from a large list. However, if the OP had several roofing contractors and allocated the work in rotation, he'd be making more money for less work than by selling advertising on a 9x12.
      And, even more importantly, he'd have a number of very happy clients :-)


      I've heard this from others. I had a grounding and experience before I came across Jay, so maybe that has something to do with it. Although there is the story he tells of a woman who went to one of his seminars and went away and implemented what he said and made 1.2 million in 6 months...
      I think a lot depends on your personality and your drive.
      The guy has built the leading locksmith company across USA.

      He went through Jay's selection process.

      He was accepted and paid $25,000
      into this http://breakthroughs.abraham.com/

      So has the nouse to implement.

      Were is the revenue model for creating an alliance of contractors
      when you aren't one?

      Best,
      Ewen
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  • Thank you everyone. I will check out the Jay Abraham stuff to see if it may be a help to me. It sounds like from you that it may be worth learning.

    Animal you said your way is easier to learn and implement. What type of marketing are you talking about?

    I will do the research that you all are recommending. Thanks everyone!
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
    Originally Posted by TheTwoPointZero View Post

    Hi. I read a post by bob ross here on the forum a year or so ago about doing a 9x12 post card eddm direct mail co op advertisement where you sell spots on your post card to local businesses that want to reach 5000 or 10000 households in their town for as little as around 5 cents per household.

    Does anyone still do this? I was wondering of those that tried it how many found it to be a viable business option over time or if it was something that worked well a few times then fizzled out.

    I am planning to do one of these myself for my local town here in the next month or so and was hoping to hear from some that have tried it.

    Thanks!
    The 9x12 postcard is alive and well.

    Bob Ross runs a FB group with numerous tips and success examples. Just search on "Bob Ross 9x12" to find it.

    Alex
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  • Profile picture of the author animal44
    Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

    The guy has built the leading locksmith company across USA.
    When do you want a Locksmith?
    When you're locked out of your home.
    When you've had a burglary.
    Would you be able to find a postcard in either case?
    So you want to get in before this happens and get the prospect to put your number into their phone, so it's there to hand when they need it.

    So you create a report about what to do when you're locked out or when there's been a burglary. The call to action is to store your number in your phone so it's there to hand when you need it.
    You need an incentive, so maybe a guarantee to be there within the hour.
    Distribute report through security companies, burglar alarm fitters, anyone in that sort of industry or who has access to your market.
    Report is presented to those businesses as a valuable free giveaway, as a thank you for being a customer, so it costs you nothing to "advertise".

    Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

    So has the nouse to implement.
    Not necessarily.
    People tend to be resistant to doing something they're unfamiliar with.

    I learnt this stuff back in the late 70's. Jay Abraham learns it about the same time. Ha made full use of it. I did not. I had a revelation about 5/6 years ago. I had the knowledge for some 35 years, but it never occurred to me to make a career out of it...

    And I've had prospects who seem to understand, but won't implement for whatever reason.
    Even when they do implement, they're not always successful.

    Look at the cold calling debate. Claimed by some on here to be the fastest way to make a sale, yet we have a thread where the guy's taken four months or more to get one client...
    I'm sure Claude can do better, but not everyone can or will. And I'd argue (as I have frequently) most won't.

    Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

    Were is the revenue model for creating an alliance of contractors
    when you aren't one?
    Back in the late 80's early 90's I ran a team of contractors. I built the team to do work on my properties, but then got the idea of hiring them out to other investors. I simply took a percentage off the top.
    It's not a great model as it involves a bit too much work, but you can certainly make money that way.

    However, my point in this thread is that there is a low limit to the revenue OP can make from the 9x12 postcard.
    For the same effort, or even less over time, OP can make more money, both for himself and his clients, by using the alliance model.

    When you put an offer to random people, such as those in a given postcode, you get a certain response.
    If you make the same offer to a list of known buyers, you get a much higher response.
    And if the offer is in some way endorsed by the list owner, then the response can be even higher.
    And if you are able to build the relationship between the list owner and the list, the response is even higher.
    End result, you get results that are spectacular.
    And both you and your client make more money.
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    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      Originally Posted by animal44 View Post


      If you make the same offer to a list of known buyers, you get a much higher response.
      And if the offer is in some way endorsed by the list owner, then the response can be even higher.
      And if you are able to build the relationship between the list owner and the list, the response is even higher.
      Thank you.

      I know the timing when a home owner
      is most likely to buy
      home improvements like a new kitchen, painting,
      new flooring etc.

      It's based on credit card spending leading up to
      the home improvement.

      Also based on friends who bought home improvements.

      I'm curious as to how you identify "known buyers"
      of say, a replacement kitchen.

      Best,
      Ewen
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      From the OP: "viable business option".

      And from the Animal44: However, my point in this thread is that there is a low limit to the revenue OP can make from the 9x12 postcard.

      For the same effort,

      or even less over time, OP can make more money, both for himself and his clients, by using the alliance model.


      At the WF a viable business could mean (and often does) how do I replace my job income? And that usually isn't very much by Western standards.

      Could be wrong, but I think there are very few 6 figure ad salesman doing 9X12, unless it is part of their portfolio of offers to other businesses. Also, probably more PRINT brokers, and this is where Bob Ross shines, he has a toll booth coming and going.

      A good model to examine, a Toll Booth.

      I don't know what viable means. I do know there is a lot of slop and mess and especially for the beginner, running around town selling ads is a grind, which some don't mind and are good at. And the professional salesperson, as many in this group are, don't see it that way because they KNOW how to sell, and probably get a certain kick from doing it.

      I'd bet right now, the OP, based on his responses, isn't going to be successful at it, and I say that because he's looking for a universal magic wand, which he thinks will eliminate the selling part of it. Hope he proves me wrong.

      I don't think it is A VIABLE OPTION for him. And for most non salespeople.

      But Animal44 brings up a different perspective, which is a more Macro, wider lens view.

      It is about TIME. And how so many people in the lower rungs of income look for options which are viable for their limited business knowledge, and the chasing of shiny objects and spending TIME trying to bring in income.

      My point is about exposure to the different options, and Animall44 admits to KNOWING about the power of alliances as taught by Jay Abraham, but not IMPLEMENTING that knowledge for several years.

      Two quick stories to the point: There is a guy in St. Louis MO, who has made MILLIONS of dollars over the last decade, and he did it by having a few PIECES OF PAPER on his desk. He sells nothing. He makes nor manufacturers nothing. He touches no products, has only ONE customer, and is one of the great beacons of ALLIANCE marketing.

      HE has CONTROL of a product which has over a billion dollars in sales. He simply gets a tiny little cut from every unit sold. The Big Bee started a thread about the"perfect business" and claimed it was real estate, I might toss TOLL POSITIONS into the ring to do battle with RE.

      See, that is what Jay Abraham offers, he teaches you to establish a toll booth between buyer and seller. It has a lot of different names, going back to the Joe Cossman "host/parasite" relationship. Jay has built many alliances over the years, and has taught it, but perhaps, it was the tree in the forest and may be why many KNOW what he says to do, but don't implement the KNOWING.

      So the OP is looking at the 9x12 card as a way to make some money. Maybe start a viable business, which it certainly can be. IF he is smart enough to take the forum advice, and quit farting around, go directly to Bob Ross and ask for his latest thing and joins a group of like minded people, he will, in effect, form an alliance among advertising salespeople, using a postcard as their vehicle.

      My opinion is Jay Abraham is too advanced for the OP, at this time. He needs to get out of the house and start talking to people.

      But also, to consider expanding his view, see some of the bigger opportunities out there, because at the end of our day, it comes down to how we spent our time.

      TIME is the issue, if young, and a supposed full tank of time, one can fiddle fart around trying to find their place, but if SPEED is an issue you create, then why not learn how to form those strategic alliances which elevate your income at breakneck speed?

      Be like Animal44 and build those alliances, DON'T be like Animal44 and wait years to apply what you learn.

      GordonJ

      PS. The reason Jay Abraham is so big on alliances has to do with his own journey and education, having been mentored by Bud Weckesser and then Harvey Brody, it was a rare chance to get a world class education and Jay took advantage of it. Hope the OP takes advantage of the wisdom in this thread.
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  • Thank you everyone. This is great information that I do plan to try to put into use. I will research Jay and his lessons and see if it is something I can do. I am not trying to find an easy way out here. I have been moderately successful with my web design business over the last 10 years but I have decided that this is the year that I expand and turn that moderate success into a much bigger business. I am not afraid of putting in the work. I think it is important to know what you do well and what you do not and I am not experienced in sales. I wish I was the kind of person that can talk to people I do not know and make them understand the value in what I am offering but I am not. Or at least not right now. I want to learn and was hoping this forum would be a place where I could learn the first steps and put me on the path to overcome that and be more successful in sales. I am great at customer service and exceeding expectations. I just need to get that sales part down and I think that would be a powerful combination.

    The advice I have been given here has me excited about these new strategies I am going to be implementing and I really appreciate the information you have given me. Many of you that have taken the time to help a struggling novice like myself you are what makes this forum great and please know that your time was not wasted. I plan to put this into action NOW. Thanks!
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  • Profile picture of the author Copylifemike
    Direct mail is not dead.

    It's also a good way to test the market by responses.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    What's wrong with just absorbing the cost, and only putting your own ad on it? Pro's / Cons , anyone?
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    • Profile picture of the author eccj
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      What's wrong with just absorbing the cost, and only putting your own ad on it? Pro's / Cons , anyone?
      There was a thread about this a few months ago. I can't locate it right now.

      From memory:

      Lead Gen and coupon offers are best getting a wider reach for the dollar vs selling a service.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      What's wrong with just absorbing the cost, and only putting your own ad on it? Pro's / Cons , anyone?
      Not sure I understand exactly what you are asking..can you clarify?
      Signature
      Success is an ACT not an idea
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    • Profile picture of the author animal44
      Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

      I know the timing when a home owner
      is most likely to buy
      home improvements like a new kitchen, painting,
      new flooring etc.

      It's based on credit card spending leading up to
      the home improvement.
      I guess this is a paid list from credit card companies or people like Experian.
      I don't like such lists because:
      1. You have to pay for access. I'm a cheapskate and prefer "free".
      2. Such lists can wear out very quickly.
      3. You only have one shot.
      4. With an alliance, you have your partner's list, which you can send sequences of emails, nurturing emails and pre launch emails, all of which can increase response.

      Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

      I'm curious as to how you identify "known buyers"
      of say, a replacement kitchen.
      Customers of a replacement kitchen business are "known buyers" of a replacement kitchen.
      Have I misunderstood the question...?

      Or are you asking how to identify prospects for a replacement kitchen?
      I have some experience in this niche.
      Firstly I'm not sure a list is necessary. How many replacement kitchens can be done at one time? Not that many. 190 orders in four days would be a bit overwhelming even for the biggest replacement kitchen companies :-)

      We did an advertisement, which spoke to a specific segment of the market, and placed it in magazines that the client and others were already advertising.
      We also implemented a referral system.
      Result was an initial decrease in sales, but an increase in profitability. Over time, sales did increase.
      We targeted those who price was not an issue.
      This was enough to keep them busy and increase their profits substantially.

      Maybe an estate agent leaving a report in high value homes that they've just sold, entitled "Warning don't buy a replacement kitchen until you get answers to these five questions"... :-)

      Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

      My opinion is Jay Abraham is too advanced for the OP, at this time. He needs to get out of the house and start talking to people.
      Upon reflection, you may be right there.
      The concept of alliances is simple, however so many people seem to have difficulty implementing...

      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      What's wrong with just absorbing the cost, and only putting your own ad on it? Pro's / Cons , anyone?
      Pro:
      Certainly, an individual ad, with no distractions, is more likely to get a higher response.
      You don't have to sell the other slots.
      Con:
      You have to carry the cost of the mailing. IMHO, the response is likely to be sufficiently higher to cover this cost, so maybe not much of a con after all.
      Signature

      I stayed up all night trying to figure out where the Sun went.
      Then it dawned on me...
      What I do for a living

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