Nobody Replies Emails...

40 replies
Hello All,

I need your help to complete this system because it is the only thing standing between me and a multiple 4 figure business idea, at least everything is fine except for this one problem.

The idea is for website design service--website redesign service actually.

The model, as I learned during research, is to make a mockup website built on awesome wordpress themes and use that as UPS to sell them, which when compared to their current website UX is far better and more appealing to the eyes.

Basically, I can find old ugly websites that urgently needs a makeover and I have worked hard at gathering this kind of websites.

I had to stop when I realise they were not reading their emails, which was weird to me considering I have used email to sell a lot of services/products in 100s of dollars.

If not for the challenges faced, I would have had over 1000 of such on my list.

Who wouldn't like a new stunning beautiful website design for their business, eh? Oh yes, so it seems except you do not belong to this category of website or business owners.

Now here is the problem.

These people with old ugly websites built from something out of HTML in the 90s have one common characteristic... they do not check their emails, they don't read emails.

I know this because I track my emails and this problem practically renders my model useless.

Apparently, they are not really our usual internet savvy kind of business owners of the current age, they seem stuck in the 90s and don't see the need of the internet, more like a group of people who believe their business is OFFLINE, at least that is what I can deduce.

However, they do have website and still pay for hosting and domain renewals.

Now, how would you solve this problem? I am not based in the US and so, email works fine for me but I am beginning to feel cold calling will be a good option.

If I decide to go the cold calling route, how can I win these set of people over considering their kind of mindset?

I believe some of you have done deals with people of this category and I will like to know how you scaled through.

Thank you in anticipation of your replies...
#emails #replies
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    Originally Posted by masterpeez4py View Post

    Hello All,

    Who wouldn't like a new stunning beautiful website design for their business, eh?
    Been there, done that. Tired of it.

    Now here is the problem.

    These people with old ugly websites built from something out of HTML in the 90s have one common characteristic... they do not check their emails, they don't read emails.

    I know this because I track my emails and this problem practically renders my model useless.

    Apparently, they are not really our usual internet savvy kind of business owners of the current age, they seem stuck in the 90s and don't see the need of the internet, more like a group of people who believe their business is OFFLINE, at least that is what I can deduce.
    Or perhaps they are very Internet savvy and can smell spam and a dime a dozen offer a mile away. Or perhaps they've been burned by people like you (no offense intended) who are doing this based on their "research" as you say.

    JVZoo and W+ have tons of products teaching this exact "system". And tons of newbies think they are on the brink of, as you say, a multiple 4 figure business.

    Yet, they can't or won't deliver what they promise and if they do it doesn't really help anything.

    What's the difference, for example, in a 90's style website that doesn't get traffic and a new sexy WP site that doesn't get traffic? Hint: there's no difference because if there is no traffic it doesn't matter what the site looks like.

    So, you may be able to put up a pretty website but it doesn't really help anything. They don't get traffic. They don't get new customers. They don't earn new money.

    And you, no offense, aren't prepared to help them make a difference to their bottom line. I mean you can't get anyone to open an email. Or to go to your own new snazzy site (I ass-u-me you have one).

    And finally, if someone has had a 90 style website since, well, the 90s and they are paying for hosting, etc. then maybe it's working out just fine for them. Maybe they aren't the dorks of the internet without the smarts to open an email. Maybe they are busy with their clients fixing their taxes, teaching their customer's kids judo, cutting their hair, handling the divorce proceedings or whatever. In other words, they really are in business and a pretty website is like a new office in the new high rise - unnecessary to cut somebody's hair or to file their corporation papers. It's not needed.

    I could go on but the point is, I delete as spam, every one of the emails we get promising sexy new websites and top 10 Google listings and the such. Why? Nothing personal, it's just business.

    Mark
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    • Profile picture of the author masterpeez4py
      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      Been there, done that. Tired of it.


      Or perhaps they are very Internet savvy and can smell spam and a dime a dozen offer a mile away. Or perhaps they've been burned by people like you (no offense intended) who are doing this based on their "research" as you say.

      JVZoo and W+ have tons of products teaching this exact "system". And tons of newbies think they are on the brink of, as you say, a multiple 4 figure business.

      Yet, they can't or won't deliver what they promise and if they do it doesn't really help anything.

      What's the difference, for example, in a 90's style website that doesn't get traffic and a new sexy WP site that doesn't get traffic? Hint: there's no difference because if there is no traffic it doesn't matter what the site looks like.

      So, you may be able to put up a pretty website but it doesn't really help anything. They don't get traffic. They don't get new customers. They don't earn new money.

      And you, no offense, aren't prepared to help them make a difference to their bottom line. I mean you can't get anyone to open an email. Or to go to your own new snazzy site (I ass-u-me you have one).

      And finally, if someone has had a 90 style website since, well, the 90s and they are paying for hosting, etc. then maybe it's working out just fine for them. Maybe they aren't the dorks of the internet without the smarts to open an email. Maybe they are busy with their clients fixing their taxes, teaching their customer's kids judo, cutting their hair, handling the divorce proceedings or whatever. In other words, they really are in business and a pretty website is like a new office in the new high rise - unnecessary to cut somebody's hair or to file their corporation papers. It's not needed.

      I could go on but the point is, I delete as spam, every one of the emails we get promising sexy new websites and top 10 Google listings and the such. Why? Nothing personal, it's just business.

      Mark
      My first emails to them has nothing to do with selling anything. It is not the usual kind of email you get offering website design. I took a different approach to this and for the most part, you are pretty much angry for whatever I can't figure out...


      I should have never created the thread in the first place and if the mod can have deleted, so be it.

      Warrior forum has gone to the dogs already, reason I only come here like once in a century.

      Have a nice day mister!
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      • Profile picture of the author helisell
        Originally Posted by masterpeez4py View Post

        My first emails to them has nothing to do with selling anything. It is not the usual kind of email you get offering website design. I took a different approach to this and for the most part, you are pretty much angry for whatever I can't figure out...


        I should have never created the thread in the first place and if the mod can have deleted, so be it.

        Warrior forum has gone to the dogs already, reason I only come here like once in a century.

        Have a nice day mister!
        Maybe if you came here a bit more often you'd understand the answer you've been given.

        Mark Singletary wasn't angry. He was just pointing out what was wrong with your business model and explaining the problem based on what you'd asked.

        I understand if you didn't like the answer you were given, many don't.

        Part of the problem with a forum like this is being selective about which 'answers' you like and which ones you don't.

        Before I read this I was going to answer along the lines of;

        'Clearly the people you're trying to contact are simply not interested. In sales....and in life...it's easier to speak to people who want what you offer, than it is to try persuading them.'

        Cold emails offering any kind of 'improvement' stopped working back in the year dot.
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        Making Calls To Sell Something? What are you actually saying?
        Is there any room for improvement? Want to find out?

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        • Profile picture of the author LindyUK
          Originally Posted by helisell View Post

          Maybe if you came here a bit more often you'd understand the answer you've been given.

          Mark Singletary wasn't angry. He was just pointing out what was wrong with your business model and explaining the problem based on what you'd asked.

          I understand if you didn't like the answer you were given, many don't.

          Part of the problem with a forum like this is being selective about which 'answers' you like and which ones you don't.

          Before I read this I was going to answer along the lines of;

          'Clearly the people you're trying to contact are simply not interested. In sales....and in life...it's easier to speak to people who want what you offer, than it is to try persuading them.'

          Cold emails offering any kind of 'improvement' stopped working back in the year dot.

          Hello helisell

          You defend Mark Singletary but his answer was arrogant and uncalled for.

          Maybe I'm just a dumb blonde not understanding the sage advice he gave, or maybe I need to come here more often to understand how we help people now, but in both cases I think not. He likely won't return to this thread now but I will reach out to help him, and I will give him some real advice, not the put downs he got from you guys.

          And BTW, your "Cold emails offering any kind of 'improvement' stopped working back in the year dot" is completely wrong.

          We have 15 sales people across England actually calling on business's, but we still do cold outreach, including emails, and it works well. We are also active in the US but don't have salespeople there, so 100% of our initial contact is via cold email.

          Lindy
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          • Profile picture of the author helisell
            Originally Posted by LindyUK View Post

            Hello helisell


            .......And BTW, your "Cold emails offering any kind of 'improvement' stopped working back in the year dot" is completely wrong.

            We have 15 sales people across England actually calling on business's, but we still do cold outreach, including emails, and it works well. We are also active in the US but don't have salespeople there, so 100% of our initial contact is via cold email.

            Lindy
            Sounds great, I don't suppose you'd be willing to share the numbers would you?
            Like say: sent x emails got y returns and did a deal on z occasions.
            Phrases like 'it works well' don't mean a lot do they.....work well compared to what exactly?

            I 100% agreed with Mark Singletary's reply. He wasn't rude or arrogant as far as I could see. Having said that I do actually teach sales and outreach for a living and often answer questions in a very direct way like he did.

            Some people don't like that but I find it gets more done than softening answers just to appear polite. I guess I just prefer factual information when on a forum. I am probably a bit different face to face but the OP should accept that expert opinion, albeit short and to the point, still has great value.

            When people come onto a forum like this and ask for advice they cannot control how the advice will be 'packaged' and in truth everything on here is just opinion....unless it is backed up by real life data and actual statistics.
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            Making Calls To Sell Something? What are you actually saying?
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            • Profile picture of the author animal44
              Originally Posted by helisell View Post

              Sounds great, I don't suppose you'd be willing to share the numbers would you?
              Like say: sent x emails got y returns and did a deal on z occasions.
              Phrases like 'it works well' don't mean a lot do they.....work well compared to what exactly?
              How would that help you...?
              Signature

              People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.
              What I do for a living

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      • Profile picture of the author eccj
        Originally Posted by masterpeez4py View Post

        My first emails to them has nothing to do with selling anything. It is not the usual kind of email you get offering website design. I took a different approach to this and for the most part, you are pretty much angry for whatever I can't figure out...


        I should have never created the thread in the first place and if the mod can have deleted, so be it.

        Warrior forum has gone to the dogs already, reason I only come here like once in a century.

        Have a nice day mister!
        You got some really good insight and I would heed it.

        We all have a lot to learn and unless you realize that, right now, you are going to fail in this business and whatever you decide to do next.

        Claude had a thread a few months ago that said "you never learn from a lost sale that you blame on the customer." Don't blame them, blame yourself and figure out what you did wrong and grow from your experience.

        You are targeting people who don't want what you have to offer. If they wanted, valued, or thought they needed a "fashionable" website they wouldn't keep their old website. The market you targeted may be the second worst target market behind businesses that don't have a website and have been around a while.

        Yes it's a little counter intuitive but it's the kind of thing you learn in business only if you are humble and willing to learn from your mistakes.

        It looks like you are not willing.

        Take a gym. If you opened a gym you may think to target people 300 pounds and more who don't belong to a gym. You may think "these people are really fat and need a gym" but your marketing results would be abysmal.

        Obese people don't belong to gyms! The only time of year you want to advertise to fat people would be around new years and even then I would be targeting women, new moms, new movers, men who just turned 40, recently divorced, etc.

        I would be willing to bet you would do better reaching out to people who already belong to a gym.

        What you are doing is the equivalent of advertising your gym to the obese! And you blame them that your results suck! And worse you blame the guy who took his time to show you your error!

        Look. I've had plenty, and I mean plenty, of campaigns not work out at all. It sucks.

        Get over it by tomorrow and come up with something better. That is what being a man is all about.
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        • Profile picture of the author masterpeez4py
          Originally Posted by eccj View Post

          You got some really good insight and I would heed it.

          We all have a lot to learn and unless you realize that, right now, you are going to fail in this business and whatever you decide to do next.

          Claude had a thread a few months ago that said "you never learn from a lost sale that you blame on the customer." Don't blame them, blame yourself and figure out what you did wrong and grow from your experience.

          You are targeting people who don't want what you have to offer. If they wanted, valued, or thought they needed a "fashionable" website they wouldn't keep their old website. The market you targeted may be the second worst target market behind businesses that don't have a website and have been around a while.

          Yes it's a little counter intuitive but it's the kind of thing you learn in business only if you are humble and willing to learn from your mistakes.

          It looks like you are not willing.

          Take a gym. If you opened a gym you may think to target people 300 pounds and more who don't belong to a gym. You may think "these people are really fat and need a gym" but your marketing results would be abysmal.

          Obese people don't belong to gyms! The only time of year you want to advertise to fat people would be around new years and even then I would be targeting women, new moms, new movers, men who just turned 40, recently divorced, etc.

          I would be willing to bet you would do better reaching out to people who already belong to a gym.

          What you are doing is the equivalent of advertising your gym to the obese! And you blame them that your results suck! And worse you blame the guy who took his time to show you your error!

          Look. I've had plenty, and I mean plenty, of campaigns not work out at all. It sucks.

          Get over it by tomorrow and come up with something better. That is what being a man is all about.
          I was not blaming anyone actually... do you know there is something called a "good intention with a bad approach"? Not sure you know.. that describe what that dude did. His approach was wrong... if he had explained the way you did, that would have been much better.

          I still get cold called by my cable TV company, asking me to subscribe to one deal or the other, explaining what bonus I would get if I did, trying to upsell me on the next train lol.. but you get the drift?

          So why call my stuff spamming? He was rather too reactive too... otherwise, I find it hard to believe he didn't see where I stated that this people are not READING their emails. I know this because I track my emails.

          In another business that I sent out emails, I usually get quite a high open rate which is accompanied with sales but it not so for this set of guys that I am currently dealing with for the website design model.

          It is my first time dealing with such people and thanks for pointing out the fact that they are not a good target for what I am doing. Would you blame a guy like me who was researching the web for solution, found one that looked nice and detailed the model and also claimed to get a lot of deals done using same method, which led me to take action on what I had learned?

          I am open to better ways that can best help this situation and giving up easily is not my thing... At least, I learned that here on Warrior Forum many years ago when I was just a kid.

          Thanks for your input. It is greatly appreciated.
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        • Profile picture of the author LindyUK
          Originally Posted by eccj View Post

          You got some really good insight and I would heed it.

          We all have a lot to learn and unless you realize that, right now, you are going to fail in this business and whatever you decide to do next.

          Claude had a thread a few months ago that said "you never learn from a lost sale that you blame on the customer." Don't blame them, blame yourself and figure out what you did wrong and grow from your experience.

          You are targeting people who don't want what you have to offer. If they wanted, valued, or thought they needed a "fashionable" website they wouldn't keep their old website. The market you targeted may be the second worst target market behind businesses that don't have a website and have been around a while.

          Yes it's a little counter intuitive but it's the kind of thing you learn in business only if you are humble and willing to learn from your mistakes.

          It looks like you are not willing.

          Take a gym. If you opened a gym you may think to target people 300 pounds and more who don't belong to a gym. You may think "these people are really fat and need a gym" but your marketing results would be abysmal.

          Obese people don't belong to gyms! The only time of year you want to advertise to fat people would be around new years and even then I would be targeting women, new moms, new movers, men who just turned 40, recently divorced, etc.

          I would be willing to bet you would do better reaching out to people who already belong to a gym.

          What you are doing is the equivalent of advertising your gym to the obese! And you blame them that your results suck! And worse you blame the guy who took his time to show you your error!

          Look. I've had plenty, and I mean plenty, of campaigns not work out at all. It sucks.

          Get over it by tomorrow and come up with something better. That is what being a man is all about.

          Hello eccj

          Geez, I can not believe most of what you guys are saying here.

          Do you actually have any experience with lead generation for gyms? We are a full service Agency and one of our services is lead generation, for clients ranging from Lawyers to Trades, and including Gym owners.

          If you know what you are doing you are generating leads for them all year round, not as you say: "The only time of year you want to advertise to fat people would be around new years and even then I would be targeting women, new moms, new movers, men who just turned 40, recently divorced, etc."

          I understand you were perhaps only using gyms as an example, but even the example makes no sense. Why would you be targeting "people 300 pounds and more who don't belong to a gym." ??? Nearly everyone would be a prospect for a gym, and all year round.

          Lindy
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          • Profile picture of the author savidge4
            Originally Posted by LindyUK View Post

            I understand you were perhaps only using gyms as an example, but even the example makes no sense. Why would you be targeting "people 300 pounds and more who don't belong to a gym." ??? Nearly everyone would be a prospect for a gym, and all year round.
            And that's the point.. WHY WOULD you? but the truth.. and I can show you data to prove it.. there are MANY companies doing just that.. and WHY? lack of experience comes to mind. and please don't come back and say at our agency we just blanket advertise with no targeting

            So lets discuss what the OP is doing... they are sending a cold e-mail that isn't selling and informational. I can tell you right now.. being the web design guy that I am.. THAT approach selling web design as has been said already is NOT going to work.

            Some straight up cold facts about cold emailing. A SOLID title MIGHT get you a 2% open rate... generally speaking you can consider yourself lucky to get 1 in 1000 you could categorize as a "Prospect" get into the order of 100,000 and you might close 3.. which so happens to work out to about 3% of "Prospects"

            Cold e-mail is a straight up numbers game, and again me being the web design guy - not a method I use. I prefer selling goods such as blow out Big screen TV's and the like where I can set a server to pump out 1,000,000 e-mails across a weeks time and make 30 sales and be happy with it.

            NOTHING beats face to face sales in terms of selling web design services - with the exception of referrals. Not going to say Geography is a handi-cap, but to some extent it is. Not going to say that language is a handi-cap, but to some extent it is.

            HERE would be my suggestion.... the OP is supposed to sell the services.. and he has a buddy that will fulfill the orders. I would get my little happy tail end on every workforce site ( Upwork, Fiverr, 99designs, Toptal, Shopify experts (you have to qualify for this ) BigCommerce Experts ( again you have to qualify for this ) Squarespace Specialist ( prequalify ) and I am sure there are others.

            Why does a guy like me have a list like that? why does a guy like me have accounts in all of those places? because it is my job, to keep my staff working... and honestly the work comes TO ME, and I don't have to track it down. Is this my ONLY method? oh no of course not, but it takes some of the strain away.

            The biggest issue I have with this particular model.., is that it worked 10 years ago.. it just doesn't really work today. You NEED to be where the Prospect can find you.. you NEED to be where the Prospect will be when they are thinking.. I need my site worked on. and here is one for you... SERP's is not it and a random e-mail isn't it either.

            Blow up an IG account developed around web design. figure out a way to list on craigslist ( works but generally cheap Prospects ) get involved on Facebook groups.. and not web design ones.. but how to build your business ones.

            Understanding how to develop and build authority in front of your target audience ONLINE takes you a long way - and its really not that hard to do

            and all of this is coming from a guy with a multiple 7 digit figure gross

            Best of luck OP
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    • Profile picture of the author LindyUK
      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      Been there, done that. Tired of it.


      Or perhaps they are very Internet savvy and can smell spam and a dime a dozen offer a mile away. Or perhaps they've been burned by people like you (no offense intended) who are doing this based on their "research" as you say.

      JVZoo and W+ have tons of products teaching this exact "system". And tons of newbies think they are on the brink of, as you say, a multiple 4 figure business.

      Yet, they can't or won't deliver what they promise and if they do it doesn't really help anything.

      What's the difference, for example, in a 90's style website that doesn't get traffic and a new sexy WP site that doesn't get traffic? Hint: there's no difference because if there is no traffic it doesn't matter what the site looks like.

      So, you may be able to put up a pretty website but it doesn't really help anything. They don't get traffic. They don't get new customers. They don't earn new money.

      And you, no offense, aren't prepared to help them make a difference to their bottom line. I mean you can't get anyone to open an email. Or to go to your own new snazzy site (I ass-u-me you have one).

      And finally, if someone has had a 90 style website since, well, the 90s and they are paying for hosting, etc. then maybe it's working out just fine for them. Maybe they aren't the dorks of the internet without the smarts to open an email. Maybe they are busy with their clients fixing their taxes, teaching their customer's kids judo, cutting their hair, handling the divorce proceedings or whatever. In other words, they really are in business and a pretty website is like a new office in the new high rise - unnecessary to cut somebody's hair or to file their corporation papers. It's not needed.

      I could go on but the point is, I delete as spam, every one of the emails we get promising sexy new websites and top 10 Google listings and the such. Why? Nothing personal, it's just business.

      Mark

      Hello Mark

      He came here asking for help, he even thanked everyone in anticipation of the help he would be given, but the best you could do was put him down and give him a rubbish answer. I hope you are proud of yourself. I hope that made you feel big.

      What is the matter with you? 5,952 posts to your credit and you treat someone asking for help like that.

      Why bother answering at all if you can't give a helpful answer. Unless of course you don't have a clue because you spend all your time making posts.

      I am often direct, I don't have the time to beat around the bush, but at least I try to be helpful with my answers.

      Lindy
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  • Get over your-self...it wasn't rude but the brutal truth. Snowflakes can't handle the truth.

    " i have the great business.service,idea.. but no one will buy it..." .
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  • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
    In the opening post a member describes business owners with "ugly websites" who have the effrontery to ignore his intended sales pitches as being stuck in the 90s and lacking internet savvy. Then when an experienced marketer (with, incidentally, a long and easily-verified history of providing helpful advice on this forum) questions those assumptions, he's the one accused of being rude and arrogant.

    What a strange world.
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    • Profile picture of the author LindyUK
      Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

      In the opening post a member describes business owners with "ugly websites" who have the effrontery to ignore his intended sales pitches as being stuck in the 90s and lacking internet savvy. Then when an experienced marketer (with, incidentally, a long and easily-verified history of providing helpful advice on this forum) questions those assumptions, he's the one accused of being rude and arrogant.

      What a strange world.

      Hello Frank

      Granted, the OP doesn't seem to be very experienced in what he is saying. He is also from somewhere overseas so English might be a second language for him, but he came here asking for help and in my opinion was given none.

      You say " he's the one accused of being rude and arrogant." So are you saying the OP was rude and ignorant, not Mark? He was misguided and obviously inexperienced, but he was very polite, even thanking everyone for their help in advance.

      Mark's "long and verified history" doesn't wash with me. If he knows so much he should come back and give answers that would help, rather than the put downs he gave.

      As far as that goes, so should the rest of you who are cuddling up to protect him.

      Lindy
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  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    Originally Posted by masterpeez4py View Post

    .

    Basically, I can find old ugly websites that urgently needs a makeover and I have worked hard at gathering this kind of websites.

    These people with old ugly websites built from something out of HTML in the 90s have one common characteristic... they do not check their emails, they don't read emails.

    I know this because I track my emails and this problem practically renders my model useless.

    Apparently, they are not really our usual internet savvy kind of business owners of the current age, they seem stuck in the 90s and don't see the need of the internet, more like a group of people who believe their business is OFFLINE, at least that is what I can deduce.
    These are not good prospects for your service. An outdated website indicates that they are no longer interested in advancing their online presence.

    It's not that your offer is bad, it's that you are trying to get the wrong people interested.

    I would suggest concentrating either on small businesses that are brand new, because everything is exciting to them, or sell a completely advanced service to people who are currently doing business online, or are at least reasonably current in their marketing.


    The best prospect is someone who is used to buying what you are selling, and is currently interested in your field.

    The second best prospect is the virgin business owner, because they are filled with enthusiasm, and frankly...the first guy contacting them..with what you sell...wins.

    The worst kind of prospect is someone who...years ago...was interested in what you sell, but has given up. Old websites that draw no traffic are a sign that they have given up.

    Sometimes, smart people get bad ideas. and, based on my experience (and a couple others here), your business plan is flawed, because you are trying to sell to bad prospects. Trust me, we have all gone through it.

    And yes, I bought the WSO (I Think) that gave the same program. I did the same as you..I got excited, hired out the website creation, and went to work. Same results. Nobody was interested at all. It wasn't until later that I put it together that I was simply selling the wrong offer to the wrong people.

    And Mark Singletary gave you real advice...from an experienced marketer. I know it tasted terrible, but if you came here for support, the Mind Warriors Forum is available here.
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    • Profile picture of the author masterpeez4py
      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      These are not good prospects for your service. An outdated website indicates that they are no longer interested in advancing their online presence.

      It's not that your offer is bad, it's that you are trying to get the wrong people interested.

      I would suggest concentrating either on small businesses that are brand new, because everything is exciting to them, or sell a completely advanced service to people who are currently doing business online, or are at least reasonably current in their marketing.


      The best prospect is someone who is used to buying what you are selling, and is currently interested in your field.

      The second best prospect is the virgin business owner, because they are filled with enthusiasm, and frankly...the first guy contacting them..with what you sell...wins.

      The worst kind of prospect is someone who...years ago...was interested in what you sell, but has given up. Old websites that draw no traffic are a sign that they have given up.

      Sometimes, smart people get bad ideas. and, based on my experience (and a couple others here), your business plan is flawed, because you are trying to sell to bad prospects. Trust me, we have all gone through it.

      And yes, I bought the WSO (I Think) that gave the same program. I did the same as you..I got excited, hired out the website creation, and went to work. Same results. Nobody was interested at all. It wasn't until later that I put it together that I was simply selling the wrong offer to the wrong people.

      And Mark Singletary gave you real advice...from an experienced marketer. I know it tasted terrible, but if you came here for support, the Mind Warriors Forum is available here.

      Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I have read some of your piece in time past and reason why I had to calmly read this reply here lol.

      Thanks to you all.
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    • Profile picture of the author LindyUK
      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      These are not good prospects for your service. An outdated website indicates that they are no longer interested in advancing their online presence.

      It's not that your offer is bad, it's that you are trying to get the wrong people interested.

      I would suggest concentrating either on small businesses that are brand new, because everything is exciting to them, or sell a completely advanced service to people who are currently doing business online, or are at least reasonably current in their marketing.


      The best prospect is someone who is used to buying what you are selling, and is currently interested in your field.

      The second best prospect is the virgin business owner, because they are filled with enthusiasm, and frankly...the first guy contacting them..with what you sell...wins.

      The worst kind of prospect is someone who...years ago...was interested in what you sell, but has given up. Old websites that draw no traffic are a sign that they have given up.

      Sometimes, smart people get bad ideas. and, based on my experience (and a couple others here), your business plan is flawed, because you are trying to sell to bad prospects. Trust me, we have all gone through it.

      And yes, I bought the WSO (I Think) that gave the same program. I did the same as you..I got excited, hired out the website creation, and went to work. Same results. Nobody was interested at all. It wasn't until later that I put it together that I was simply selling the wrong offer to the wrong people.

      And Mark Singletary gave you real advice...from an experienced marketer. I know it tasted terrible, but if you came here for support, the Mind Warriors Forum is available here.

      Hello Claude

      I have respect for you, for your experience and the advice you give in your posts. But even though you are giving some good advice, for instance regarding new business owners, some of it is still wrong.

      We make very good money from finding old and outdated websites to either redesign or makeover. I will give 2 examples:

      1. Websites that are not mobile responsive. Our average turnover would be around US$10,000 PER DAY making mobile versions of websites. These are redirected sites that we make of their current websites. Our sales are only limited by the number of preview and then finished sites that we can make each week, given that this is just one of more than 20 services that we offer.

      2. Websites that have been designed in flash. There are still tens of thousands of them and as you would know they will not display at all on mobiles or tablets.

      In both of those cases, we only have to show a business owner that well over 50% of all website searches are now done on mobile phones or tablets, and that figure growing each year. We show them how they are losing out to their competition and in the process, losing out on sales and profits. Thats always a BIG incentive to get updated.

      An outdated website does not always indicates that they are no longer interested in advancing their online presence. Often a website designer has designed their website but then left them high and dry re getting traffic to it. They might lose interest in their website if it seems to be worthless to them. Many of these websites do need to be redesigned or at least have a makeover, but you also need to help them profit from the new site. We love finding old and outdated websites to redesign or makeover as they usually become recurring profit centre's for us.

      Re your "The second best prospect is the virgin business owner, because they are filled with enthusiasm, and frankly...the first guy contacting them..with what you sell...wins." This is really good advice for him. When I contact him I will go further and show him where to find these new business's

      I do completely disagree with your comment re "And Mark Singletary gave you real advice...from an experienced marketer". I'm not changing my opinion that his post was both arrogant and rubbish. If that's the best advice and help that an "experienced marketer" can give here, then no wonder the WF is in trouble with it's low figures.

      Cheers
      Lindy
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by LindyUK View Post

        Hello Claude

        I have respect for you, for your experience and the advice you give in your posts. But even though you are giving some good advice, for instance regarding new business owners, some of it is still wrong.

        We make very good money from finding old and outdated websites to either redesign or makeover. I will give 2 examples:

        1. Websites that are not mobile responsive. Our average turnover would be around US$10,000 PER DAY making mobile versions of websites. These are redirected sites that we make of their current websites.

        2. Websites that have been designed in flash. There are still tens of thousands of them and as you would know they will not display at all on mobiles or tablets.
        These are two examples of a specific offer to make websites more accessible. This is a different offer (I think) than the OP was describing.

        When I was offering my local online marketing service, these were two of the components I offered. They were easy to describe, and easy to sell. Nearly everyone already had a website. I learned early on, that offering to replace their website with better looking one, wasn't an offer that was easy to sell.

        Very early on, I offered a better looking website, that would get listed better in Google. I got "We already have a website" as an objection...so many times, that we had to address that in the opening. "I supply sales and qualified leads to business owners that already have a website"...was my elevator talk, and my positioning statement.

        If the OP's real problem is getting his e-mail opened, it's probably outside our ability to address, unless we knew far more about it.

        But...as your post clearly shows, almost any offer can be sold if the reasons given are good enough, and the prospecting is done well. Perhaps the prospect list is just bad, or the approach is wrong.
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        • Profile picture of the author LindyUK
          [quote=Claude Whitacre;11530957]
          Originally Posted by LindyUK View Post

          Hello Claude

          I have respect for you, for your experience and the advice you give in your posts. But even though you are giving some good advice, for instance regarding new business owners, some of it is still wrong.

          We make very good money from finding old and outdated websites to either redesign or makeover. I will give 2 examples:

          1. Websites that are not mobile responsive. Our average turnover would be around US$10,000 PER DAY making mobile versions of websites. These are redirected sites that we make of their current websites.

          2. Websites that have been designed in flash. There are still tens of thousands of them and as you would know they will not display at all on mobiles or tablets.

          /QUOTE]

          These are two examples of a specific offer to make websites more accessible. This is a different offer (I think) than the OP was describing.

          When I was offering my local online marketing service, these were two of the components I offered. They were easy to describe, and easy to sell. Nearly everyone already had a website. I learned early on, that offering to replace their website with better looking one, wasn't an offer that was easy to sell.

          Very early on, I offered a better looking website, that would get listed better in Google. I got "We already have a website" as an objection...so many times, that we had to address that in the opening. "I supply sales and qualified leads to business owners that already have a website"...was my elevator talk, and my positioning statement.

          If the OP's real problem is getting his e-mail opened, it's probably outside our ability to address, unless we knew far more about it.

          But...as your post clearly shows, almost any offer can be sold if the reasons given are good enough, and the prospecting is done well. Perhaps the prospect list is just bad, or the approach is wrong.
          Hello Claude

          Re "This is a different offer (I think) than the OP was describing.".

          No, not really. He was talking about redesigning old or outdated websites. In my example of websites that are not mobile responsive we would give them 2 options. The first is a complete redesign and the second is the much lower cost option. Around 80% or so choose the lower cost option.

          Re "If the OP's real problem is getting his e-mail opened, it's probably outside our ability to address, unless we knew far more about it"

          Like you I have no clue either at the moment. You have to attract attention and that's often hard to do when people/business's are receiving a thousand email a day, or nearly that. lol. He may be sending only one email, when you have to send a series of AR messages. With cold emailing we send 12 emails over 3 months or until they respond. Your email subject line has to stand out from the crowd. We use emoji's in front of and behind the Subject line. I actually use red hearts which I can get away with, being a woman, and they really make our emails stand out from the rest. . I front our company so the From is from me rather than the company name, which certainly gets more opens. Then a few more tricks that warms the lead to me, resulting in them paying attention to our message. That part for us is about building relationships with prospects, and then maintaining that relationship after they become clients. They say that average email open rates are around 23% then click through's 7% or lower, but our rates are sky high to those figures. I have spoken about some of these things before so I won't go over them again.

          Cheers
          Lindy
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          • Profile picture of the author masterpeez4py
            [quote=LindyUK;11530965]
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


            Hello Claude

            Re "This is a different offer (I think) than the OP was describing.".

            No, not really. He was talking about redesigning old or outdated websites. In my example of websites that are not mobile responsive we would give them 2 options. The first is a complete redesign and the second is the much lower cost option. Around 80% or so choose the lower cost option.

            Re "If the OP's real problem is getting his e-mail opened, it's probably outside our ability to address, unless we knew far more about it"

            Like you I have no clue either at the moment. You have to attract attention and that's often hard to do when people/business's are receiving a thousand email a day, or nearly that. lol. He may be sending only one email, when you have to send a series of AR messages. With cold emailing we send 12 emails over 3 months or until they respond. Your email subject line has to stand out from the crowd. We use emoji's in front of and behind the Subject line. I actually use red hearts which I can get away with, being a woman, and they really make our emails stand out from the rest. . I front our company so the From is from me rather than the company name, which certainly gets more opens. Then a few more tricks that warms the lead to me, resulting in them paying attention to our message. That part for us is about building relationships with prospects, and then maintaining that relationship after they become clients. They say that average email open rates are around 23% then click through's 7% or lower, but our rates are sky high to those figures. I have spoken about some of these things before so I won't go over them again.

            Cheers
            Lindy
            Thanks for the help and input so far...what I mean is that I am not seeing them being opened based on tracker and yes, the emails are personalized.

            In comparison to when I used to flip domain names, I used cold emails for same purpose and I usually get most of my emails opened and a few respond to either purchase the domain name or let me know they are not interested but in this case, it is NOTHING of website redesign, no sign that the emails were read or open. Or may be they were opened but my tracker didnt registered that.. above all no response.

            I am also not using an autoresponder in part being that they didnt opt in to any mailing list because I basically feel before you do such, you have to make them opt in ...
            I will be expecting to see how you do this and learn from you. thanks in advance.
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        • Profile picture of the author masterpeez4py
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          These are two examples of a specific offer to make websites more accessible. This is a different offer (I think) than the OP was describing.
          No, they are no different. I actually come across those flash websites and now that I have read Lindy's post, I have gotten a better perspective on how to go about it.

          And yes, the plan was to make their websites mobile friendly and accessible.

          As a matter of fact i have over 300 websites i have gathered but I had to stop in order to take action on what I had learned. The person that wrote the guide on Reddit where I learned this didn't explain how to find such websites but I figured it out myself based on my experience.

          I am glad that Lindy is willing to help fix this one puzzle holding me back on this one.
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  • Profile picture of the author masterpeez4py
    @LindyUK, I really do not know how you could see things from my angle and others didn't,but you almost accurately expressed my thoughts. And for that, I am grateful.

    Yes, I am not from an English speaking country, which may have affected my wrong use of words or adjective to paint a perfect picture of what I was saying without sounding condescending or rude.

    Apologies if I came off as one.

    I will like to point out something... My emails were not being ignored. If it were being ignored, I would not be here asking this question but I would rather be finding out what I could be doing wrong.

    The case was one involving a set of people who HARDLY check their emails and like I said, I track my emails as I have always done for similar business model since years ago... yes, it may surprise you to know that these kind of people exist in places like the US.

    From the look of things, it appear they are more of an offline business than online or they just have not figured out the importance of a website to their business.

    I actually planned to make some recommendations along the line. The basics was to build a rapport with them FIRST, freely giving some tips that could help their business before pitching a website design but this is ONLY possible if they read the first email. It does not matter if you are the best sales man the world has seen; if your email is not being opened, then it is a waste of time, which was why I came here to know the best way to deal with this kind of people because they are uniquely different from most of the people you may be dealing with in your own business.

    Not sure if there was anything to add to what you had said earlier cos you perfectly captured my thoughts.

    Calling my approach spam, if only this guy knew how many multimillion dollar companies cold-email prospects. TradeKey.com (one of the largest export-import portal) once cold email me but unfortunately, I could not help them because we were experiencing some recession as a country. That was in 2016.

    This whole thing started because I wanted to help a friend who was idle after he lost his job. He told me would love to design sites IF only he could get clients and because he has been a very good friend to me in the past, I took it upon myself to do something about the situation.

    I had to start researching and pouring pages over pages until I came across this model and like you rightly stated, I am inexperienced in this niche (getting clients) since it is my first time. I will appreciate the help because you would not only be helping me but also helping a friend who had lost his job.

    I still have another business that can keep me going but I loved this website design model, which was why I dived in.

    Thanks to you LindyUK.
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  • Profile picture of the author Highest And Best
    I have a very simple answer for you.

    Being in business since the 80's, I can tell you from experiencde that it is an important business lesson to understand that success comes from identifying a problem that MANY people have, and being able to solve it.

    Perhaps "many" is relative... it seems that your chosen market are people who don't have, or don't recognize, the problem. If they have outmoded html websites, then they are (as a group) not doing business online or utilizing their website as an asset.

    Sure, many of them can benefit from your service, but going after this market is just not worth the effort. It is a much better idea to find a market of people who KNOW they have a problem. Your conversions will be much easier, your clients grateful, and your income will go from 4 figures to 6 figures... just as long as you can truly solve the problem in a win/win way.

    So here is my simple answer to your question:

    You solve your problem by dropping your current business model, and find another with people who know they need your service. They will be grateful to receive your emails.

    -Scott
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    Don't let Internet Marketing overwhelm you... let's take the journey together! Build Money Machines!
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    Give me a few days and I will contact you.
    I don't agree with your assessment of other people's comments - but if you are willing to help, go for it.

    I think this is an example of a thread that got away from the OP and took on a life of its own. I also believe some of the 'blaming' going around is hogwash. Other people have a right to express their opinions without having to defend everything they say to a third party in a thread.

    Could be a language discrepancy but the OP's initial post was that he could make 4 figures many times if he solved one problem - the problem was how to get sales! He said he could have 1000 on his email list - if people would only read his emails and sign up.

    We can only form opinions on a forum based on what people POST.

    He did not mention any experience in building sites or in ranking sites - the impression is he 'saw' this idea and wants to run with it. That's fine - but it will involve trial and error.He did not mention site functionality or maintenance ..only 'attractive or beautiful'.

    He says emails are not opened but then says they are not a problem - it is confusing to some extent.

    As a matter of fact i have over 300 websites i have gathered but I had to stop in order to take action on what I had learned. The person that wrote the guide on Reddit where I learned this didn't explain how to find such websites but I figured it out myself based on my experience.
    Does that mean he has 'found' 300 sites online that HE believes need to be redesigned? Better to find 3 dozen sites - test the idea of 'redesign' on a small scale and see if this is a viable business plan or not. Why 'gather' more than 300 sites if you are not having any results?

    Has he ever 'redesigned' a site and created a case study to show other potential customers? There are many 'ugly' sites that sell a lot of products. The OP has to appeal to the site owners - they do not owe it to him to respond to HIS plan for their website....I think that 'impression' came across but doubt the OP meant it that way.

    I constantly receive emails of those who want to fix my sites or redesign my sites or put ads on my sites and on and on. I do not read or respond to those emails. TO ME - they are spam. But I doubt those sending them to me consider them spam.
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    Saving one dog will not save the world....but will forever change the world for one dog.
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    • Profile picture of the author DABK
      OP, a lot of business owners who have websites have an email / form that does not go to them; it goes, instead, to the person who set them up with a website, who, for 30 or so dollars a month, renews the domain and the hosting and not much else.

      What you are proposing would lose them 30 dollars a month, so they do not pass your message to the owner.

      If I were you, I would locate owners some other way: LinkedIn or email address on whois.com.

      Some business owners do exactly what Singletary said: they get so much spam and si many marketers offering them 10k real visitors a month that they overcorrect and tune out good offers.

      I know because I am the person who gets all messages from some sites (I do not get paid to maintain sites, though; still I filter out tons of offers: the offerers did not prospect well or they did not establish credibility. I forward about 2% of offers.

      I know because I have been involved in non-marketing businesses and get a ton of offers that have nothing to do with my businesses.

      I get offered 5000 more sales in businesses that can handle 250 to 350 sales a year. Getting 5000 calls from new prospects in one month would mean a lot of unhappy current clients and a lot of unhappy new clients and at 8 to 15k a sale, losing just a few ends up being real money fast.

      An offer of GET 10 NEW CLIENTS IN A MONTH, would be an offer I would be interested in, though.
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    • Profile picture of the author masterpeez4py
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post


      He did not mention any experience in building sites or in ranking sites - the impression is he 'saw' this idea and wants to run with it. That's fine - but it will involve trial and error.He did not mention site functionality or maintenance ..only 'attractive or beautiful'.
      I have been building for sites for myself, business sites, sales pages and all that. It is like having a skill and not commercializing it until recently.

      He says emails are not opened but then says they are not a problem - it is confusing to some extent.
      I think you misunderstood me here. What I meant is that the owners are not reading their emails... not just mine. For you, you may not think people like this do not exist but I know a lot of people who can't even recall their email passwords. Such people do not really feel this "internet" thing. I once met an oil company owner on Linkedin and he told me he does not need a website. Quite shocking!

      Does that mean he has 'found' 300 sites online that HE believes need to be redesigned? Better to find 3 dozen sites - test the idea of 'redesign' on a small scale and see if this is a viable business plan or not. Why 'gather' more than 300 sites if you are not having any results?
      I selected 300 sites and mailed a few, around 20 of them out of that 300 to see what happens and that was it.

      Has he ever 'redesigned' a site and created a case study to show other potential customers? There are many 'ugly' sites that sell a lot of products. The OP has to appeal to the site owners - they do not owe it to him to respond to HIS plan for their website....I think that 'impression' came across but doubt the OP meant it that way.
      The first guy I contacted, I actually made a mockup site for him but dude didn't respond, For the others, I didn't want a repeat of their experience, you know after much work and no reply, so I chose a different approach to it, which was to first strike a rapport with the owner of the site/company before pitching...no luck with that either.

      What I find shocking is that for flipping domains, I use emails most times and I do get responses and email read, but not for this one lol

      I constantly receive emails of those who want to fix my sites or redesign my sites or put ads on my sites and on and on. I do not read or respond to those emails. TO ME - they are spam. But I doubt those sending them to me consider them spam.
      To you it is spam but it is not...Do you tell your TV stations they are spamming your views when you see those commercials on your TV?
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  • Profile picture of the author shilabristi
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by

      I will do targeted b2b lead generation"
      I will deep research for your business & give you:
      Company name
      Targeted person (From any Industry & Location)
      Job title (CEO, President, Owner, Founder, VP, Director, General Manager, Marketing titles an so on)
      Email (Verified, Updated & Live)
      Phone
      Website URL
      Address
      Linkedin profile URL etc
      As against TOS rules and all that this is.... THIS GUY is EXACTLY what I am talking about, going to where people will use your services and getting in front of them.
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      Success is an ACT not an idea
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    To you it is spam but it is not...Do you tell your TV stations they are spamming your views when you see those commercials on your TV?
    That wasn't a point to be argued. What I'm saying - still - is that in MY EMAIL acct unsolicited promotional emails are usually 'spam' to ME thus go unread. The person sending them may believe they are making me a fantastic offer...but if I don't have that viewpoint, the emails go unread.

    TV commercials? Seldom see them - I record programs and FF through commercials...


    You found 300 sites the fit your criteria - and emailed 20 of them. To me, that number is not enouogh to draw any conclusions. Perhaps test different subject lines, different approach (offer a free assessment vs direct sales approach) - use a 'lead in' email with a link to a more expansive web page sales copy. Test and tweak to find a potential 'approach' that gets attention of prospects.
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  • Profile picture of the author LindyUK
    Hello helisell

    RE: "Sounds great, I don't suppose you'd be willing to share the numbers would you?
    Like say: sent x emails got y returns and did a deal on z occasions.
    Phrases like 'it works well' don't mean a lot do they.....work well compared to what exactly?"


    If you did not understand my comment re "it works well", I meant the concept of cold email campaigns to a targeted audience is very successful for us, in terms of gaining new clients, sales and profits.

    Re your "work well compared to what exactly?" That was just my statement that cold emailing still works well, made against your statement that "Cold emails offering any kind of 'improvement' stopped working back in the year dot." I'm not sure where you are starting the "year dot" from, but we have been operating our Agency for a bit more than 12 years now, and in that time I think our sales from the US market would exceed US$30 Million at least. We also have smaller sales coming from Australia and Canada that originate from cold emailing, and over here we use cold emailing to warm prospects prior to our sales teams visiting them.

    I mentioned that all of our US sales originate from cold email. US sales last financial year accounted for US$5,325,286 of our turnover, so yes, I think I can say that cold email outreach still works well.

    That figure obviously includes new or recurring sales/income from existing clients, as well as sales to new clients. But the fact remains that we have never had sales reps in the US, so all US clients have come from cold email campaigns. (As I have mentioned in other posts we hide our websites from Google searches so all of our sales and income is generated from our own outreach.)

    Your "Like say: sent x emails got y returns and did a deal on z occasions." is a bit basic. Campaign are conducted over months with multiple follow up emails, so figures on any single mailing would give you very misleading results on that campaign.

    An average campaign is 12 to 18 emails sent over a period of 3 months, then less frequent contact just to stay in touch. That contact might be mailing them details and link to our monthly flip page magazine, or invitations to attend our private webinars. Our average open rates are around 87% over the entire campaign (Not on a single mailing, though our open rates on single mailings are sky high compared with the average 23% or so, or what some say can be as low as 2% for cold emails. We would consider that if they can only get that rate of opens to a targeted list then they have a lot more to learn about their craft. I am talking about mailings to targeted business's here. If the mailings were to untargeted consumer lists without follow up, then 2% to 3% would be an average open rate.

    I don't give away all our secrets but I have often posted details on how we operate in a very different way to most, and how that gives us competitive advantage. My weekly video, The Blonde Effect. is an example of that. It gets near 100% opens and click through's. It doesn't sell any service, it just sells me (as the figurehead of our Agency) But that small ripple then turns into a wave of new clients for our Agency.

    Cheers
    Lindy
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    • Profile picture of the author helisell
      Originally Posted by LindyUK View Post

      Hello helisell

      RE: "Sounds great, I don't suppose you'd be willing to share the numbers would you?
      Like say: sent x emails got y returns and did a deal on z occasions.
      Phrases like 'it works well' don't mean a lot do they.....work well compared to what exactly?"


      If you did not understand my comment re "it works well", I meant the concept of cold email campaigns to a targeted audience is very successful for us, in terms of gaining new clients, sales and profits.

      Re your "work well compared to what exactly?" That was just my statement that cold emailing still works well, made against your statement that "Cold emails offering any kind of 'improvement' stopped working back in the year dot." I'm not sure where you are starting the "year dot" from, but we have been operating our Agency for a bit more than 12 years now, and in that time I think our sales from the US market would exceed US$30 Million at least. We also have smaller sales coming from Australia and Canada that originate from cold emailing, and over here we use cold emailing to warm prospects prior to our sales teams visiting them.

      I mentioned that all of our US sales originate from cold email. US sales last financial year accounted for US$5,325,286 of our turnover, so yes, I think I can say that cold email outreach still works well.

      That figure obviously includes new or recurring sales/income from existing clients, as well as sales to new clients. But the fact remains that we have never had sales reps in the US, so all US clients have come from cold email campaigns. (As I have mentioned in other posts we hide our websites from Google searches so all of our sales and income is generated from our own outreach.)

      Your "Like say: sent x emails got y returns and did a deal on z occasions." is a bit basic. Campaign are conducted over months with multiple follow up emails, so figures on any single mailing would give you very misleading results on that campaign.

      An average campaign is 12 to 18 emails sent over a period of 3 months, then less frequent contact just to stay in touch. That contact might be mailing them details and link to our monthly flip page magazine. Our average open rates are around 87% over the entire campaign (Not on a single mailing, though our open rates on single mailings are sky high compared with the average 23% or so, or what some say can be as low as 2% for cold emails. We would consider that if they can only get that rate of opens to a targeted list then they have a lot more to learn about their craft. I am talking about mailings to targeted business's here. If the mailings were to untargeted consumer lists without follow up, then 2% to 3% would be an average open rate.

      I don't give away all our secrets but I have often posted details on how we operate in a very different way to most, and how that gives us competitive advantage. My weekly video, The Blonde Effect. is an example of that. It gets near 100% opens and click through's. It doesn't sell any service, it just sells me (as the figurehead of our Agency) But that small ripple then turns into a wave of new clients for our Agency.

      Cheers
      Lindy
      Sorry but that all looks like blah blah.

      Cold emails don't work well enough to be worth doing.

      I think you may have dodged my actual question so here goes....

      What response rate do you get from a cold/outreach [whatever you want to call it] email?

      So in simple terms, if you send out 1000 'cold' [i.e. no previous connection or correspondence] emails....how many responses would you get?

      No problem if you don't want to answer that exact question but please don't tell people that cold email 'works well' because that is simply untrue and will give false hope to others who may invest their future in it.

      I know full well that email campaigns work 'well' I've been doing them since 2004.
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      • Profile picture of the author LindyUK
        Originally Posted by helisell View Post

        Sorry but that all looks like blah blah.

        Cold emails don't work well enough to be worth doing.

        I think you may have dodged my actual question so here goes....

        What response rate do you get from a cold/outreach [whatever you want to call it] email?

        So in simple terms, if you send out 1000 'cold' [i.e. no previous connection or correspondence] emails....how many responses would you get?

        No problem if you don't want to answer that exact question but please don't tell people that cold email 'works well' because that is simply untrue and will give false hope to others who may invest their future in it.

        I know full well that email campaigns work 'well' I've been doing them since 2004.

        Hello helisell

        My answer seems like blah blah to you? I saw in one of your posts where you said you teach outreach. If you are telling your clients that cold emailing does not work then I would consider you to not know what you are talking about.

        Note that I have specified cold emailing to targeted lists, not emailing to untargeted lists. I'll give an example of that so we can be clear. We are a full service Agency so we are targeting business prospects. So for example we may run a search on Lawyers/Attorneys in New York that do not have a video on their home page. Or we are more likely to niche that down to say, Divorce Lawyers/Attorneys in New York that do not have a video on their home page.

        So now Re your: "Cold emails don't work well enough to be worth doing." You don't believe that US$30 million plus worth of sales (to US Business's) over a 12 year period, or US$5,325,286 for our last financial year sales to US business's is worth doing??? Come on, I doubt you would have a tiny fraction of those sales in your own business, and those are just our sales from the US market (from clients originally obtained by cold email outreach) not our sales from our main market here in the UK. Overall our sales last year for UK, US, AU and CA would amount to more than US$21 Million, with all US, AU and CA sales originating from cold email outreach.

        Re your "I think you may have dodged my actual question so here goes...."

        I didn't dodge your question, you just do not seem to understand how to do email marketing. You do NOT just send one email and expect to get good results. I actually told you that we would average around 87% opens from a single campaign, example the Divorce Lawyers/Attorneys in New York without a video on home page. You would certainly not get that result from sending a single email but that is not how email marketing works. You should know that.

        Re your: "No problem if you don't want to answer that exact question but please don't tell people that cold email 'works well' because that is simply untrue and will give false hope to others who may invest their future in it."

        I think I did answer your question and I will certainly continue to say that cold emailing still works well, our results and figures prove it, but you have to know how to do it.

        Note: I am talking about B2B marketing here, like selling our Agency services to other business's. It starts with using software to build a targeted list, for example that may be building a list of business's in a certain business niche (like Lawyers. Roofers, Plumbers etc) that don't have videos, or who don't have GMB listings, or who don't have Mobile Responsive Websites, or who have Flash based websites, or who are running poor PPC campaigns, etc.

        You must be mailing/marketing to a targeted list, to business's that you identify as having a specific problem that you can fix. I am not talking about scatter gun marketing here.

        If you or others want to learn how to do cold email campaigns that work then read through my posts, many of them will give information on how we do things, usually in a very different way to most others. Some would mention ways we do outreach, including a post above.

        Re your: "I know full well that email campaigns work 'well' I've been doing them since 2004."

        I don't understand what you mean here, you are now saying you understand that they do work well, while you have been maintaining that they don't???

        WE also started 15 years ago, in 2004, (started with Affiliate Marketing and then opened our Agency 3 years later. (My Dad had about 10 years of IM experience prior to that) but I think we are likely to know a fair bit more than you do, and I would say in any aspect of outreach, just going on what you seem to not understand about email marketing to cold lists..

        Thought I would just come back and add this. We are subscribed to many lists so might get 100 or more incoming emails a day. (to a different email address than our Agency email) Now most of these are not cold emails to us, we have already subscribed to their lists, but I would say that perhaps 95% Plus would not get a second look from most people if they had received them as cold emails. The reasons: To get an open your email first has to stand out from the crowd, like us, many people including business's get a flood of emails every day.

        So how do we make our emails stand out? First the From: is from me, we use my name rather than our Agency name, as I front our Agency. Second we use emoji's in front of and behind the email Subject. Being a Gal I like using red hearts, 3 in front and 3 behind. That really makes our email stand out from the crowd at first glance, a persons eyes go straight to those red hearts, then to our Subject line.

        So we have attracted attention to our email, now we have to use our Subject line to get them to click and open it. Now really, most subject lines are boring, boring, boring, and I could add another 97 boring's if I had time. We often tease or use humour, I gave an example a few weeks ago in a thread called Marketing To a Non-Buyer List 6 Months Old. That was an example of how we would use a fairly wacky approach to activating people on that old list.

        But I will give you an example of an email we have actually used. The idea came from when we were trying to sell 10 slots in a £10,000 per month service a few years ago (I have posted that story here in WF). Our most experienced sales person was unable to get a single appointment with the CEO's of the companies we were targeting. My Dad handed it to me and though I had never done any sales I used devious female ways to get to see the CEO's and signed over a million pounds worth of contracts in about 6 weeks. So this year we could handle another 10 contracts but I didn't have time to go out and do the selling, so I used a direct mailing campaign to 10 companies which resulted in 7 contracts. The direct mailing was the intro step, inviting a phone call then meeting. I actually sent the CEO's a registered package, hand addressed to them so it wouldn't be opened by PA's or other staff. Then I had a fairly flirty hand written card asking if they would like to go on a Date with me, and inviting them to call me. Then a silver framed portrait of myself plus a glossy brochure on our Agency. When they called I actually invited them on a "Date", took them to a high end London restaurant where we could talk, rather than the first meeting being at their company offices. (and yes, some did want more Dates. lol) Another funny thing that I really loved. Following the "Date", when I finally went to their office's to give my presentation on the service we were offering and to sign contracts, I found that four of them had my framed photo on display. Three of them had my photo on their desks and one in his book shelf. That was the ultimate promotional result. Every time they glanced at my photo, my name and our Agency would burn deeper into their subconscious. That's a bit like why you give out promotional items to your clients, but in this case it was much more personal.

        Due to the success of that campaign we are now using a similar cold emailing campaign to get business owners to private webinars that we conduct to showcase our Agency and services. The email Subject line is "Want To Go On A Date With Me?" It features my little red hearts around that subject line. It features my photo and the copy is a little bit flirty, but that shows my personality. Then the "Date" with me is the invitation to meet me on our Webinar. The emails gets very very high opens, and usually flood our webinars each time we hold them. The overall idea is for the emails to stand out and attract attention by being so different to most.

        Now I am not saying you could get these same results yourself helisell. Put you in a blonde wig with pink lippy and pink mini suit and you may get the exact opposite reaction, readers may go screaming for the doors, but my point is that if you are boring, or if your emails are boring, you will not get much attention.

        Cheers
        Lindy
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  • Profile picture of the author Jerrod Adams
    Build the Awesome Site and Present it , if they decline then switch it up for the next client. Im Super Green those are my thoughts with how easy it is to make a website these days
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  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
    Enough of the BS already.... Lindy, you are just going to have to claim another "Blonde moment" here. I am not so sure you understand what "Cold e-mailing" is.

    Lets start with this thread: https://www.warriorforum.com/offline...bulk-free.html

    Ok so the twist in terminology here.. we are saying "cold e-mailing" as in from a list of names we have pulled from the internet, and you are saying "Cold list" suggesting at some point they have consented getting e-mails from you.

    Another point to be made here. It is ILLEGAL for YOU being a company in the UK to "Cold E-Mail". if you read some of my posts in the thread I share above, its NOT illegal here in the States if 3 points of compliance are maintained.

    when you look at things like: https://www.lawdonut.co.uk/business/...-anti-spam-law YOU are restricted to e-mail only Companies IE "sales@abcwidgets.co.uk" or "helpdesk@abcwidgets.co.uk" and not INDIVIDUALS IE "mary@abcwidgets.co.uk" or "bob@abcwidgets.co.uk" YOUR response rate is going to be HORRIBLE

    So just go ahead and flip the blond hair and say "Oh my bad" and lets move on. COLD E-MAILING is NOT as effective as you are suggesting, and in no way can be even close to as effective as you are suggesting based on the national laws that govern your business.
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    • Profile picture of the author LindyUK
      Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

      Enough of the BS already.... Lindy, you are just going to have to claim another "Blonde moment" here. I am not so sure you understand what "Cold e-mailing" is.

      Lets start with this thread: https://www.warriorforum.com/offline...bulk-free.html

      Ok so the twist in terminology here.. we are saying "cold e-mailing" as in from a list of names we have pulled from the internet, and you are saying "Cold list" suggesting at some point they have consented getting e-mails from you.

      Another point to be made here. It is ILLEGAL for YOU being a company in the UK to "Cold E-Mail". if you read some of my posts in the thread I share above, its NOT illegal here in the States if 3 points of compliance are maintained.

      when you look at things like: https://www.lawdonut.co.uk/business/...-anti-spam-law YOU are restricted to e-mail only Companies IE "sales@abcwidgets.co.uk" or "helpdesk@abcwidgets.co.uk" and not INDIVIDUALS IE "mary@abcwidgets.co.uk" or "bob@abcwidgets.co.uk" YOUR response rate is going to be HORRIBLE

      So just go ahead and flip the blond hair and say "Oh my bad" and lets move on. COLD E-MAILING is NOT as effective as you are suggesting, and in no way can be even close to as effective as you are suggesting based on the national laws that govern your business.

      Hello savidge

      Just WHERE did I say that we were emailing to a cold list that had already consented to receiving emails from us??? That would NOT be a cold email list. The only reference I made anywhere near to that was when I gave our last year's sales figures from US sales, and I said that figure INCLUDED sales from existing clients, but that ALL our US clients were originally obtained from COLD EMAILING. (My definition of cold emailing is to be sending emails to companies that have never heard from us before)

      We are building our lists using various lead finding software's, we likely have 20 or more of them, and buy and test every new one that comes out. If you are not aware of lead generation software, we are able to input a business niche (say plumbers) and then country, and city and set it going. A typical search will show us business name, address, email, phone number, website URL and can also show us if they have: mobile responsive website, have videos, have GMB listings, have Facebook and other social media accounts and so on. Some of our software is more specific, searching for only one specific thing, such as business's that do not have a GMB listing. I'll give 4 examples of software's that we use: Lead Kahuna and Lead Finder Jack are two that give us the multi search results. (identifying if they are mobile responsive, have videos, have social media pages and so on) Two examples of lead finder software that is more specific is Legal Prospector, obviously made especially to search the legal niche in multiple countries, and Maps Mentor Lead Finder. But as I said, we have at least 20 of these software's to build our COLD EMAILING LISTS. <<<<<< . We could generate an email list for any business niche in the whole of the US, or from one State or City/Town. We also have software that gives us access to newly registered business's in the US, giving us the owners name, the email he has provided to the government agency when registering his business plus a host of other data. We can often make contact them before they even have a website for their new business, so this is another way we build cold emailing lists and do cold email outreach. (cold emailing.)

      These search's are the way we build our cold emailing lists. And YES they are emails that have been pulled from the internet. I don't know of any software yet that can go out and knock on doors!

      RE your: "Another point to be made here. It is ILLEGAL for YOU being a company in the UK to "Cold E-Mail". if you read some of my posts in the thread I share above, its NOT illegal here in the States if 3 points of compliance are maintained."

      My advice is for you to go have another coffee, or two, and come back and read my posts again, where I am talking and giving examples of our cold emailing TO US BUSINESS'S.

      I don't have time to read your threads at the moment (will try to when I have time) BUT you are trying to tell me what our laws are over here. You are completely wrong, we can send cold email here the same as we do in the US as long as we comply with rules as we have to in US and other countries.

      "So just go ahead and flip the blond hair" - K, I flipped it just for you, but it still remains, you and helisell are still wrong in most of the things you are saying. I have added a little more to my post 32 that you might not have read. I gave an example showing exact steps we do as well as a brief overview of a cold email campaign that we have been doing. It is worth reading to understand a bit more on how we do things.

      As far as "Blonde Moments", I do joke about having those sometimes, but the reality is that my Dad and I have built a US$21 Million a year Agency in 15 years, growing by over a million dollars each year. He made me CEO of our group of companies quite a few years ago, having responsibility for the day to day running of our companies. so he sure doesn't see me as a dumb little blonde as you seem to infer.

      So I am not offended by what you say, I actually make a short weekly video called The Blond Effect. It is just me reading and reacting to blonde jokes that have been sent in by our clients and prospects. We solicit the jokes and I have hundreds of them, more come in each week. I am not trying to sell any service in the videos, they are just one example of the very different way we run our business. In this case it is a part of relationship building.

      I also think that not many, including you, would have anywhere near the experience or knowledge that we have. We are constantly learning and would spend at least US$50,000 a year buying new software to trial, or new training courses, books and so on. We only have to find one new idea in a training course for it to be worthwhile to us. We actually empower our staff to find and buy anything they think that may be of interest to us. On each shift we have girls that are checking our email accounts every 15 minutes. If a software or product is under US$100 they may buy it using PP or Agency CC. If over US$100 they have to get permission from a Supervisor, or my Dad or myself. If we go on to use that software or anything we find in a training program, then they receive a Finder Bonus of £50. That's good incentive for our staff to be always looking for anything that can improve our business. They are also on a profit sharing system too, so any increase in business profits also benefits them.

      Cheers
      Lindy
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    • Profile picture of the author animal44
      Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

      Another point to be made here. It is ILLEGAL for YOU being a company in the UK to "Cold E-Mail". if you read some of my posts in the thread I share above, its NOT illegal here in the States if 3 points of compliance are maintained.

      when you look at things like: https://www.lawdonut.co.uk/business/...-anti-spam-law YOU are restricted to e-mail only Companies IE "sales@abcwidgets.co.uk" or "helpdesk@abcwidgets.co.uk" and not INDIVIDUALS IE "mary@abcwidgets.co.uk" or "bob@abcwidgets.co.uk" YOUR response rate is going to be HORRIBLE
      Rubbish.

      I have an email from the ICO that states explicitly that their understanding of the law is that a cold email to "mary@abcwidgets.co.uk" or "bob@abcwidgets.co.uk" is perfect acceptable, so long as it has a relevant business purpose.

      Added: There has yet to be case law established.

      There's a lot of misinformation out there, especially from self interested parties...

      And I'm with Lindy. We do cold email for a lot of our businesses both UK and abroad.... and get a great response, in line with what Lindy says. Though I'm sure we do things differently.

      However, average stats are worthless. It's harder to get a response from those niches that are bombarded with marketing messages than it is from unsexy niches, like waste disposal or saddlers or pharmacies.

      I don't think the grumpy old man effect would have the impact that the blonde effect has..., but my brown underpants days are popular

      But I do note you've improved. it was 19 responses from a million emails in a previous post, now it's 30... In most cases to get 30 responses we'd be emailing 50 prospects max and usually less.
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      • Profile picture of the author LindyUK
        Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

        Rubbish.

        I have an email from the ICO that states explicitly that their understanding of the law is that a cold email to "mary@abcwidgets.co.uk" or "bob@abcwidgets.co.uk" is perfect acceptable, so long as it has a relevant business purpose.

        Added: There has yet to be case law established.

        There's a lot of misinformation out there, especially from self interested parties...

        And I'm with Lindy. We do cold email for a lot of our businesses both UK and abroad.... and get a great response, in line with what Lindy says. Though I'm sure we do things differently.

        However, average stats are worthless. It's harder to get a response from those niches that are bombarded with marketing messages than it is from unsexy niches, like waste disposal or saddlers or pharmacies.

        I don't think the grumpy old man effect would have the impact that the blonde effect has..., but my brown underpants days are popular

        But I do note you've improved. it was 19 responses from a million emails in a previous post, now it's 30... In most cases to get 30 responses we'd be emailing 50 prospects max and usually less.

        Hello Animal

        I'll have to buy you a new barn for backing me up, but us Brits have to stick together.

        Sometimes I think that it might be that some Guys just don't like being told by a girl, but it is more likely they just do not know their craft very well.

        If we could send out a campaign to a million cold targeted business emails it would mean we would get near 870,000 opens, a little bit better open rate then savidge gets with his 30. He is obviously mailing to untargeted consumer email lists but you would still think he should do a bit better than 30 out of a million emails.

        Geez, I could buy Buckingham Palace or at least Windsor Castle just with the profits from a mailing like that. Or maybe I would buy the White House just to show savidge. lol.

        Anyway, nice to see you here again, we are nearly Team Brit in here now. lol.

        Cheers
        Lindy
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  • Profile picture of the author helisell
    Ah...so you said you get 30 responses from 1,000,000 'cold' emails sent ....am I reading that right?
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    • Profile picture of the author LindyUK
      Originally Posted by helisell View Post

      Ah...so you said you get 30 responses from 1,000,000 'cold' emails sent ....am I reading that right?
      Yes, that is what he said.

      He would be sending a one off email to a completely untargeted consumer list. Then with a bad email to boot.

      I'm rooting for him to get up to at least 50. I'm sure he will put on some sort of party to celebrate, and I'll likely accept an invite. Maybe Animal will come too.

      Cheers
      Lindy.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sapph
    I think you're targeting the wrong audience. A business owner that still has an "ugly" 90s style website probably a) doesn't get a lot of their customers from there or b) doesn't understand the leads or sales they could get with a better designed website or c) their "ugly" website does the job or d) doesn't haven't the budget to update it (basic hosting and domain renewal doesn't cost very much).

    Instead of targeting 90s style websites,, you would be better off reaching out businesses who are conversion-minded and understand the right web design improvements can improve their metrics (sales, leads captured, etc.). Open the conversation with 2-3 web design ideas of how they can improve their conversions.
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  • Profile picture of the author cearionmarie
    If email marketing doesn't get the results you need, maybe you need to consider a different marketing approach. Try to be active on social media, there are a lot of potential clients there. If you are also able to make use of FB groups with a specif target, even better.
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