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Undercover Billionaire

by Kurt
183 replies
I saw the firs episode of a TV show where a billionaire goes undercover and has a goal of creating a million dollar business within 90 days.

I missed the first 20 minutes of the show, but I think this is what he starts with:
A pickup truck
A cell phone
$100 in his pocket
Cant contact anyone he knows or tell anyone who he really is

He struggled early. First he took his truck and looked for discarded industrial size tires he was hoping to sell, but no luck. He advertised for work online and got a temp 6 hour job at a tee shirt print shop and made $60 and got a job cleaning a house for $80.

It was St. Patrick's day, so he took the money he had left after getting a motel room for the night (he slept in his truck most nights so far) and went to a retail store and bought a bunch of St Patty trinkets on clearance, since it was St Patty's Day.

He also called the guy that owned the tee shirt shop he worked for and did a JV with him. The billionaire guy stressed the need for networking and wanted the shop owner because he knew the local area.

I think the billionaire made $400+ dollars selling his stuff. He bought St Patty mylar balloons for something like 75 cents, took them to the St Patty celebration, parade, nearby bars and sold them for $5 each. He had other stuff too that he sold. The print shop owner even sold the tee off his back.

What would you do under the same circumstances?
#billionaire #undercover
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    First, I think I'd check to see if there was a vehicle pawn option available. Not sure I'd do it, but I'd want to know if it was an option and for how much. Having some cash flow plus still being able to use the truck could be huge.

    Next, I'd check to see what type of equipment I could rent with only cash. Not sure if it's possible. I'd look for anything I could rent to perform a low-skill service like a pressure cleaner. I'd then place ads on Craigslist for these services and when I booked an appointment, I'd quickly research any tips about it online and then go rent the needed equipment.

    A big problem is when you're starting with nothing, your margins for error are ZERO. If you rent the pressure washer and the job cancels or you don't get paid, it would be devastating.

    The billionaire went "all in" and spent all his money buying the St Patty stuff. He knew it was a big risk but felt it was a good one. But what if a cop shut him down for not having some needed local license or it rained and everyone stayed home?

    I've never built a million dollar business so I can't give good advice on that part...but I do believe I could get on my feet pretty quickly. I'm putting the pickup to work.
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    • Profile picture of the author DWolfe
      I have never been in this situation, but if I needed the cash that fast. I would call the local scrap yards and find out what the price of metal is. Than use Craigslist Free section to see who is getting rid of old Appliances or have metal to be picked up. Fill the bed of the pick up truck he has and drive to the scrap yard to collect the cash.

      Looking at the area he is in their seems to be a lot of metal available. Never tried what he is doing but I wonder if he get into the Demo business. He could use some of the people he met at the Soup Kitchen to demo those old business that gone out. Than a builder can come and re-develop those old properties.
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  • Profile picture of the author ryanbiddulph
    Interesting Kurt. What a great exercise for expanding your prosperity consciousness.
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  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

    I saw the firs episode of a TV show where a billionaire goes undercover and has a goal of creating a million dollar business within 90 days.

    I missed the first 20 minutes of the show, but I think this is what he starts with:
    A pickup truck
    A cell phone
    $100 in his pocket
    Cant contact anyone he knows or tell anyone who he really is

    He struggled early. First he took his truck and looked for discarded industrial size tires he was hoping to sell, but no luck. He advertised for work online and got a temp 6 hour job at a tee shirt print shop and made $60 and got a job cleaning a house for $80.

    It was St. Patrick's day, so he took the money he had left after getting a motel room for the night (he slept in his truck most nights so far) and went to a retail store and bought a bunch of St Patty trinkets on clearance, since it was St Patty's Day.

    He also called the guy that owned the tee shirt shop he worked for and did a JV with him. The billionaire guy stressed the need for networking and wanted the shop owner because he knew the local area.

    I think the billionaire made $400+ dollars selling his stuff. He bought St Patty mylar balloons for something like 75 cents, took them to the St Patty celebration, parade, nearby bars and sold them for $5 each. He had other stuff too that he sold. The print shop owner even sold the tee off his back.

    What would you do under the same circumstances?
    I've been asked a few times what to do if you have nothing. Well, a few times, early in life I've had nothing...looking for change between the cushions to buy gas...that sort of broke.

    I generally would go buy a liquidation of something cheap, so I could sell it door to door for quick cash. I remember once buying NO SOLICITING signs for a buck apiece, and sold them for $10 each, door to door.

    I used to buy used office furniture, used motel furniture, air purifiers and vacuum cleaners, and sell them in classified ads. I did his while running another successful business, but it could have been my only source of income.

    When I was a teenager, I bought seeds, candy bars, and a few other things and sold them door to door. I did it for school a few times, and then realized I could just do it for myself.

    As an experiment once, I bought used vacuum cleaners (the brand I was selling in the home at the time), for $10 each from other vacuum cleaner salespeople...repaired them myself, and sold them for $1,000 each by appointments in people's homes. For a month, I only sold used machines, just to see if I could do it.

    If today I was put in a city with $100, a phone, a car and nothing else, I'd buy and sell low end liquidations and re-invest everything except for food and a hotel.

    Could I have a million dollars in 90 days? No. But I could have a nice apartment and $10,000-$20,000 in the bank. Of that, I am sure.

    I don't believe in fate, or luck, ....but there have been days (decades ago) when I needed $500 before the end of the day...and I always got it through selling something. No idea why it's always worked for me.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      I've been asked a few times what to do if you have nothing. Well, a few times, early in life I've had nothing...looking for change between the cushions to buy gas...that sort of broke.

      I generally would go buy a liquidation of something cheap, so I could sell it door to door for quick cash. I remember once buying NO SOLICITING signs for a buck apiece, and sold them for $10 each, door to door.

      I used to buy used office furniture, used motel furniture, air purifiers and vacuum cleaners, and sell them in classified ads. I did his while running another successful business, but it could have been my only source of income.

      When I was a teenager, I bought seeds, candy bars, and a few other things and sold them door to door. I did it for school a few times, and then realized I could just do it for myself.

      As an experiment once, I bought used vacuum cleaners (the brand I was selling in the home at the time), for $10 each from other vacuum cleaner salespeople...repaired them myself, and sold them for $1,000 each by appointments in people's homes. For a month, I only sold used machines, just to see if I could do it.

      If today I was put in a city with $100, a phone, a car and nothing else, I'd buy and sell low end liquidations and re-invest everything except for food and a hotel.

      Could I have a million dollars in 90 days? No. But I could have a nice apartment and $10,000-$20,000 in the bank. Of that, I am sure.

      I don't believe in fate, or luck, ....but there have been days (decades ago) when I needed $500 before the end of the day...and I always got it through selling something. No idea why it's always worked for me.
      I believe in luck, especially in the short term. Random things happen to random people.

      Our plans are somewhat similar. I am trying to get capital/cashflow, which is what the billionaire guy also did in order to buy things. With the equipment thing, it's possible to scale a business if I see one of them start to work, but the main thing is to get some cash ASAP. I too have bought things and sold them door to door but it's not something I could do for very long.


      I think the biggest difference between his focus and ours is that he really stressed networking. Our plans are all about us.


      This has been my biggest weakness in my online ventures and I have a feeling it will be what makes him successful, if he does succeed in building a million dollar business and why we probably can't/won't.



      I'd also make a priority of getting a bank account so I could have a Paypal account and a point of sale way to take credit cards that I can use as cash quickly. A mailing or physical address may be required. It will take a few weeks but this should be started right away.

      Can he sell plasma or blood and for how much? How much is cardboard and a sharpie and some tape to create signs for his pickup advertising for work/services?

      BTW Claude...if you have cushions to look under for gas money, you're not really poor.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

        I think the biggest difference between his focus and ours is that he really stressed networking. Our plans are all about us.

        This has been my biggest weakness in my online ventures and I have a feeling it will be what makes him successful, if he does succeed in building a million dollar business and why we probably can't/won't.
        I agree. Networking is something I never did (except formal referral programs) until maybe 10 years ago. It's just not how my brain works.

        Although, you may find this interesting. When I was about 23 years old, I was selling Kirby vacuum cleaners for a small commission. I found out what the distributor was paying for them, and decided to strike out on my own.

        I found a manufacturer for a different vacuum cleaner that was looking for distributors in Ohio.

        I called the owner and made an appointment to see him. He told me to qualify, i needed an office, financing set up already, money for inventory, and a team of salespeople ready to go. When I met him, I told him I had everything needed...except financing, an office, money for inventory, or a sales team.

        For reasons I'll never understand he gave me four vacuums on credit, helped me set up local financing, and sent me out on my own. I would be making 5 times as much on each sale as I did at the previous company.
        I knocked on doors and sold three the first day, and went back to the company. He gave me four more vacuums (literally on my word alone). By the end of the second week, I had paid him back in full, had my own inventory, and was off to the races. In my best week that year, I made enough to pay cash for a new car. I had found my calling.



        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

        BTW Claude...if you have cushions to look under for gas money, you're not really poor.
        I never said they were my cushions.

        Today, if I were to plan out a month of just getting started, I'd find a retail store that has a customer list, but a lazy owner, and increase their sales for half the new profits.

        My advantage at this ripe old age, is that I kind of know how to do that already. It may not be what I'd advise someone else to do.
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  • Profile picture of the author DWolfe
    Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

    I saw the firs episode of a TV show where a billionaire goes undercover and has a goal of creating a million dollar business within 90 days.

    I missed the first 20 minutes of the show, but I think this is what he starts with
    I can fill you in on some of the first 20 minutes, I posted about it in the TV thread in off topic section the other day. He slept in the truck the first night. He started off purchasing Ramen Noodles and a few other cheap items to survive ! He spent time looking up the cost of living in Erie Pa where he is trying to build the Business.
    He took yellow rubber balls to a dog park to see if people would consider purchasing them in the future. After meeting with the owner of a tire company.

    Seeing so many newbies struggle here. They should really tune in to see what he goes through, to be successful. The show is worth following just based on his tips. Like Buy low sell high and several others he shared and will share along the way. Plus his work ethic.

    If he is a success his company gets $1 million from The Discovery Channel based on their evaluation. If it is not a Million Dollar company he pays the company 1 Million to the business. The Trailer for the show explains it in more detail. Easy to find online,
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by DWolfe View Post

      I can fill you in on some of the first 20 minutes, I posted about it in the TV thread in off topic section the other day. He slept in the truck the first night. He started off purchasing Ramen Noodles and a few other cheap items to survive ! He spent time looking up the cost of living in Erie Pa where he is trying to build the Business.
      He took yellow rubber balls to a dog park to see if people would consider purchasing them in the future. After meeting with the owner of a tire company.

      Seeing so many newbies struggle here. They should really tune in to see what he goes through, to be successful. The show is worth following just based on his tips. Like Buy low sell high and several others he shared and will share along the way. Plus his work ethic.

      If he is a success his company gets $1 million from The Discovery Channel based on their evaluation. If it is not a Million Dollar company he pays the company 1 Million to the business. The Trailer for the show explains it in more detail. Easy to find online,
      Actually, I posted about it on that thread too...just above your post.

      I tuned it on during the dog balls thing. It seemed like an OK idea, but it didn't work.

      I like the show a lot so far. He seems like a really nice, honest guy without an ego and respects people, unlike some other "rich guy" shows. And he seems to have sensible business ideas...and like you say a strong work ethic. I hope it stays that way and they don't create fake drama.
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  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
    well its not $1,000,000 but I am on my way to creating $100,000 PROFIT - PART TIME here:https://www.warriorforum.com/warrior...days-ebay.html

    I haven't updated the thread in a bit but I am past 1/2 way to the $100,000 set later in the thread. and in case you don't want to read it, I made $6000 the first month starting with only $40.00

    You know what.. in that thread my son and I started a store. we later kinda split, and he now has his own store with a wholesale side ( he makes custom mugs - as well as selling mugs and stuff on ebay ) HIS business, is the start of a $1,000,000 business. may not make that the first year ( he is 10 ) but it WILL get there.
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  • Profile picture of the author umc
    I've always loved window washing as a quick and easy business that can be started for very little. A bucket, some Dawn dishwashing liquid, a wand, squeegee or two, couple of rags, and you're off. You can get commercial or residential work. You might need an extension pole at some places.

    I've started car washes at offices using very little as far as supplies go. Another cheap and easy business to start.

    I like what Kurt said about the difference being that this guy is networking while doing all of this. Too many of us, myself included, have our eyes set on survival during those periods, not networking toward higher goals. We're just technicians in those moments building our own jobs, not building real businesses that are scalable or reaching out to bigger things. Many don't know that those bigger opportunities exist or how to get them.

    After a back injury I'm literally starting my business life over as of the last few weeks. Back at square one but with some knowledge, experience, and a network build on doing a totally different type of work. I know what I want to do and I'm working on paths to get there. I may post about it at some point but I'm experimenting right now.

    I saw the commercials for this show. Haven't watched yet but I plan on it. It's cool to see a thread here about it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

    I saw the firs episode of a TV show where a billionaire goes undercover and has a goal of creating a million dollar business within 90 days.

    I missed the first 20 minutes of the show, but I think this is what he starts with:
    A pickup truck
    A cell phone
    $100 in his pocket
    Cant contact anyone he knows or tell anyone who he really is

    He struggled early. First he took his truck and looked for discarded industrial size tires he was hoping to sell, but no luck. He advertised for work online and got a temp 6 hour job at a tee shirt print shop and made $60 and got a job cleaning a house for $80.

    It was St. Patrick's day, so he took the money he had left after getting a motel room for the night (he slept in his truck most nights so far) and went to a retail store and bought a bunch of St Patty trinkets on clearance, since it was St Patty's Day.

    He also called the guy that owned the tee shirt shop he worked for and did a JV with him. The billionaire guy stressed the need for networking and wanted the shop owner because he knew the local area.

    I think the billionaire made $400+ dollars selling his stuff. He bought St Patty mylar balloons for something like 75 cents, took them to the St Patty celebration, parade, nearby bars and sold them for $5 each. He had other stuff too that he sold. The print shop owner even sold the tee off his back.

    What would you do under the same circumstances?
    Damn, Kurt!

    I watched the first episode online, and now I'm hooked. This guy isn't sophisticated, brilliant, or even handsome. But he's showing what determination and work ethic will do.

    I can't wait to see the next episode. I'm setting my recorder to catch it all.

    Here's a link if someone wants to watch the first episode...

    https://go.discovery.com/tv-shows/un...ion-dollar-bet
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  • Profile picture of the author socialentry
    Interesting thread.This comment about networking were intriguing as it also goes against my temparament. I can't help but think "What does he know that I don't know?".

    I googled some and found this:

    https://www.nickiswift.com/161411/gl...r-billionaire/

    With this particular quote (spoiler warning? I haven't watched the show yet).

    . In an interview with Go Erie, the billionaire admitted he originally wanted to jump into the world of craft beer, calling the brewing community a "close-knit group." However, after spending some time with local brewers, Stearns realized he had to ditch that idea. It turns out running a brewery is a really difficult labor of love, and there's apparently no get-rich-quick scheme. "These guys are artists. They really are. They know what they're doing and it's a lot more difficult than I imagined," he told Go Erie. "I ... realized that was hard and to try to build that kind of business in 90 days, it wasn't gonna happen."
    So he at least is using it to "drytest" his ideas. I wonder what else is going to come through?

    It's been 3 or 4 years since I've watched a Western TV show. I hardly believe I'm about to break this winning streak.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

      Interesting thread.This comment about networking were intriguing as it also goes against my temparament. I can't help but think "What does he know that I don't know?".

      I googled some and found this:

      https://www.nickiswift.com/161411/gl...r-billionaire/

      With this particular quote (spoiler warning? I haven't watched the show yet).



      So he at least is using it to "drytest" his ideas. I wonder what else is going to come through?

      It's been 3 or 4 years since I've watched a Western TV show. I hardly believe I'm about to break this winning streak.

      Classic ad hominem fallacy..."It's a Western TV show therefore there is nothing I can learn from it".
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      • Profile picture of the author socialentry
        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

        Classic ad hominem fallacy..."It's a Western TV show therefore there is nothing I can learn from it".

        Nah. That's not what I meant. It was more in a lighthearted "Western TV sucks but you made a case for one and only show, so I plan to watch it".

        But sure, I'll play ball

        One of the big issues I have with Western TV is that it is edutainment with a big focus on the "tainment" part.

        At the very minimum, there's gonna be a lot of padding (dramatic music, swearing, bad jokes, etc).At worse, things are dumbed down as factual reporting doesn't sell ratings.

        The other point is bias and honesty. Most directors aren't above editing footage to tell "the right amount of truth" or mislead outright. In case of reality TV,The show is often produced as part of a personal branding effort. Nothing wrong with this but it's hardly an unbiased source.

        Even assuming the editing is done in full honesty, one still has to cut somewhere.

        The pitch for Dragon Den (Canadian shark den) is for example much longer then what is shown on TV.

        Can one learn something from Western TV? Sure but there are usually much better venues.
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  • Profile picture of the author misterme
    When I was in my very early twenties, out of work and with no idea of a career, I found the concept of "agency" fruitful.

    Some of the things I did... got a block party type of free permit by a downtown municipal shopping area for every weekend throughout one summer. Rented out the street spaces to arts and crafts vendors by going to other arts and crafts shows with flyers. Until the local merchants banded together and had the town stop giving out permits for that. The next year the local merchants association held their first annual street festival in the same spot.

    Put a free classified ad in a local music scene paper saying I was looking for bands to book. Placed another free ad saying I had bands available for booking, looking for gigs. So what would happen is I'd get calls on both and match a band to a gig and get a slice of the pay. Until I found out you actually need a license to do that.

    Basically, you put two parties together and get a cut. No inventory needed, very little if any cash outlay, pretty quick turnaround. And apparently, no questions asked!
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  • Profile picture of the author StevenTylerPjs
    What a great show! Thanks for posting the link Claude. I just watched the 2nd episode. I had no idea you could buy cars off of dealerships like that.
    So far the guy has failed at selling the dog balls, was able to sell some St Paddy gear at the parade on the streets, and then pulled off the tire and car stuff.

    He's out there just grinding it out. It's not unrealistic, at least not so far. I hope it stays that way. I'm looking forward to keeping up with the show each week. I think anybody who likes this forum, especially the offline section, would think this show is great.
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    • Profile picture of the author umc
      I did balk at the prices he paid for those cars that he flipped. I've bought a lot of used cars and drive cheapies and I've never stumbled on deals like those. I can't imagine why they'd sell them that cheap. Virtually anyone would have paid more.

      I like the show, that just felt a little too convenient.

      I enjoy seeing how he builds a network, though I can't remember if it said how he got meetings with these business owners. He was chatting with them and I can't remember if it showed how he got their time and attention.

      I love the networking aspect though. He's going for scale pretty hard, getting a team.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by umc View Post

        I enjoy seeing how he builds a network, though I can't remember if it said how he got meetings with these business owners. He was chatting with them and I can't remember if it showed how he got their time and attention.

        I love the networking aspect though. He's going for scale pretty hard, getting a team.
        It's the networking, building relationships with business owners that is the secret to massive business building. And this show demonstrates that you don't have to already have "connections". You can build them as you grow. From scratch.

        Not using that idea is the main thing that kept me from building a truly large business. Always a loner. Always thinking about the next deal. Sure I made money. But there was always a cap on where I could go financially. A big fish in a small pond. Always the small pond.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kurt
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          It's the networking, building relationships with business owners that is the secret to massive business building. And this show demonstrates that you don't have to already have "connections". You can build them as you grow. From scratch.

          Not using that idea is the main thing that kept me from building a truly large business. Always a loner. Always thinking about the next deal. Sure I made money. But there was always a cap on where I could go financially. A big fish in a small pond. Always the small pond.
          I agree, especially with the networking. But I do believe some of that is talent and not skill. Glen is likable and a people person and probably likes being around people...

          There's a few other elements involved. One is the "red paper clip" story where you acquire something and flip or sell it for a net gain, then reinvest and keep trading up a level or two.

          I think what happens is many of us find a level we're comfortable with and stop trading up, whereas Glen keeps trading up and up and up until he can buy yachts, with the help of being great with networking and leveraging the skills and assets of other people.

          I'm happy if I can afford extra cheese and pepperoni...
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          • Profile picture of the author umc
            Originally Posted by Kurt View Post


            I think what happens is many of us find a level we're comfortable with and stop trading up, whereas Glen keeps trading up and up and up until he can buy yachts, with the help of being great with networking and leveraging the skills and assets of other people.

            I'm happy if I can afford extra cheese and pepperoni...
            I've also heard that referred to as the "upper limit challenge". We're programmed to be comfortable, not to get that "tall poppy syndrome" and stand out from the crowd. So we think we only deserve x and that's the highest we aim. Been there, done that, broke through it some.

            Like Claude I've always been a loner. I know a ton of people, just never worked with any of them and did my own thing. I've hired and managed 20-30 people and honestly loved it, but that was for someone else's company. For my own businesses that's never been an option.
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        • Profile picture of the author socialentry
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          It's the networking, building relationships with business owners that is the secret to massive business building. And this show demonstrates that you don't have to already have "connections". You can build them as you grow. From scratch.

          Not using that idea is the main thing that kept me from building a truly large business. Always a loner. Always thinking about the next deal. Sure I made money. But there was always a cap on where I could go financially. A big fish in a small pond. Always the small pond.

          I'm wondering a lot about this. In what ways did a lack of networking limit you?

          These are possible benefits of networking I could come up with:

          1-You enter an extremely close-knit industry where everyone knows everyone else(e.g. actuarial industry)

          2-The government is hopelessly corrupt and you need to know who is honest and who isn't

          3-You need knowhow that is not publicly available (e.g. access to reseller prices) or at least hard to find
          4-Have a quick overall view of a given industry without having to do in-depth research
          5-You need to build a multidiciplinary tech team.

          But at the core:if you have a working business mode,
          what would prevent you from just hiring more people and treat everything on a transactional basis?Surely in this age of the internet, the need for networking is much less?


          EDIT: How large is a "large business"?
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          • Profile picture of the author DABK
            Surely, in the age of internet, if someone I know tells me X provider is good, I am more likely to purchase from X provider than if I found X provider on my own, on the internet.

            I say I am more likely because I have selected an internet-found provider and then someone I knew suggested another, and I went with the other even though their internet presence had not registered or had registered and I passed them up.

            Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

            I'm wondering a lot about this. In what ways did a lack of networking limit you?

            These are possible benefits of networking I could come up with:

            1-You enter an extremely close-knit industry where everyone knows everyone else(e.g. actuarial industry)

            2-The government is hopelessly corrupt and you need to know who is honest and who isn't

            3-You need knowhow that is not publicly available (e.g. access to reseller prices) or at least hard to find
            4-Have a quick overall view of a given industry without having to do in-depth research
            5-You need to build a multidiciplinary tech team.

            But at the core:if you have a working business mode,
            what would prevent you from just hiring more people and treat everything on a transactional basis?Surely in this age of the internet, the need for networking is much less?
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            • Profile picture of the author socialentry
              Originally Posted by DABK View Post

              Surely, in the age of internet, if someone I know tells me X provider is good, I am more likely to purchase from X provider than if I found X provider on my own, on the internet.

              I say I am more likely because I have selected an internet-found provider and then someone I knew suggested another, and I went with the other even though their internet presence had not registered or had registered and I passed them up.
              I've always been puzzled by this behavior.

              Upon hearing a friendly recommendation, the first thing that would come to my mind:

              What caused the recommendation? Is my friend an actual expert on the subject matter or is it simple because he was chummy with the salesperson?

              Does he have a stake however small in me buying the service?
              And so many others.

              Sure. It depends on the service and all other things being equal, it's better to ask a friend, but things very very rarely are as such.

              It could easily lead to a situation where the blind are following the blind.

              Most successful cons are pulled because of trust without due diligence.
              (e.g. see Henry Kissinger et al. lending their reputation to Theranos and sitting on its board, also Bernie Madoff pyramid, ponzi scheme etc).

              In any case, is that all there is to it? Networking through friends seems to be the default method of selling most people resort to.

              It might be that the truth is more nuanced. Although he stresses networking, I suspect (him being in the mortgage business), that he became a billionaire not through networking but because of interest rates at historical lows for nearly a decade.
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              • Profile picture of the author DABK
                You are right. But people like to feel they belong, that they are normal and they do not think they have biases but understand other people biases.


                Think about how much yelp reviews matter. People, including me, have been swayed by reviews.


                Think of this one too: if you must buy something, you must have some criteria for selecting a provider. You simply do not always have the time to do a thorough, first hand anything, you must cut corners. Sometimes, even if you have the time, you do not have the knowledge to judge.


                But you can see if a friend or relative is happy with the provider they chose. And you'll think, if they're happy, I might end up happy.


                If you have more than one relative / friend recommending, then you become sure.


                And the power of the referral goes up if the friend or relative has a job you respect: priest / doctor /... and a mechanic if you need car repairs... your dentist brother's recommending a dental surgeon carries a lot of power, etc.



                Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

                I've always been puzzled by this behavior.

                Upon hearing a friendly recommendation, the first thing that would come to my mind:

                What caused the recommendation? Is my friend an actual expert on the subject matter or is it simple because he was chummy with the salesperson?

                Does he have a stake however small in me buying the service?
                And so many others.

                Sure. It depends on the service and all other things being equal, it's better to ask a friend, but things very very rarely are as such.

                It could easily lead to a situation where the blind are following the blind.

                Most successful cons are pulled because of trust without due diligence.
                (e.g. see Henry Kissinger et al. lending their reputation to Theranos and sitting on its board, also Bernie Madoff pyramid, ponzi scheme etc).

                In any case, is that all there is to it? Networking through friends seems to be the default method of selling most people resort to.

                It might be that the truth is more nuanced. Although he stresses networking, I suspect (him being in the mortgage business), that he became a billionaire not through networking but because of interest rates at historical lows for nearly a decade.
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

            I'm wondering a lot about this. In what ways did a lack of networking limit you?
            My "networking'" was just getting referrals. And when I was later networking at paid marketing events, I was just looking for clients. Selling.

            The limitation I had was that I was always just looking for sales. Sure, I made lots of sales...enough so that I got speaking gigs to explain how I did it. But these sales were one to one sales. Always me and the prospect. I was limited by how many qualified people I could comfortably see in a time frame.

            And even when I was speaking to large groups, and my sales multiplied, it was still just me and them. I was limited because essentially I was the product and messenger.

            The kind of networking that builds huge businesses is finding people that can add value to your business. It could be expertise they have, it could be contacts they have...it could be that they are joint venture partners.

            Think of a large successful company. They have the CEO...but they also have suppliers that want them to be successful, marketing people, advertising agencies, technicians, designers, and more...all working for a common purpose.
            Animal44, as much grief as I give him, has the best idea. Find businesses you can join with for your mutual profit.

            If you watch Shark Tank, you'll often see pitches where the owners really just need marketing help, a distribution channel, or a better supplier more than an infusion of funds. That's the kind of networking that build a large business.

            Originally Posted by socialentry View Post


            EDIT: How large is a "large business"?
            It's not so much how large the business is, it's whether it can survive your absence.

            I've had businesses with 20 or 30 employees. But I had to be there every day. It was unsustainable without me. Most direct sales businesses are like that.

            I was talking about a business you could build, and then not have to be there to supervise and do much of the work.

            For example, in my best years, I did about half a million in sales. But those sales were mostly done by me, even when I had reps. The structure of the business was very "Claude centric".

            But I've seen businesses do half a million a year in sales (not a very large business, really) that could operate without the owner. Those are the kind of businesses that can grow to many millions a year in sales or even profit.


            Originally Posted by umc View Post

            I did balk at the prices he paid for those cars that he flipped. I've bought a lot of used cars and drive cheapies and I've never stumbled on deals like those. I can't imagine why they'd sell them that cheap. Virtually anyone would have paid more.

            I like the show, that just felt a little too convenient.
            I saw the second episode (with the car flipping) last night.

            When he found the cars, it was at a dealer that had really already closed. The dealer's son was there to liquidate the two last cars on the lot. He even said "My Dad just wants me to get rid of them".

            It wasn't his lot. He wasn't a salesman. They weren't his cars. The guy was a highly motivated seller that had no idea what he was doing.

            I've never bought cars that way, but I've bought lots of vacuum cleaners that way. A retailer is going to close their store, and I go in and make an offer for about 20% of their actual cost of goods. We usually end up at 25% of their cost (and mine).

            I used to advertise that I would pay cash for various items I knew I could quickly resell for a good profit. About 75% of the callers would balk at my offer, but 25% would accept.

            Finding motivated sellers (who just want out of the business) is how you make these deals. Most car dealers would have said "No".



            Originally Posted by umc View Post

            I enjoy seeing how he builds a network, though I can't remember if it said how he got meetings with these business owners. He was chatting with them and I can't remember if it showed how he got their time and attention.
            He just called them, and told them he wanted to talk to them about building a business in the area. Most business owners are willing to help with advice and contacts.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by StevenTylerPjs View Post

      What a great show! Thanks for posting the link Claude. I just watched the 2nd episode. I had no idea you could buy cars off of dealerships like that.
      So far the guy has failed at selling the dog balls, was able to sell some St Paddy gear at the parade on the streets, and then pulled off the tire and car stuff.

      He's out there just grinding it out. It's not unrealistic, at least not so far. I hope it stays that way. I'm looking forward to keeping up with the show each week. I think anybody who likes this forum, especially the offline section, would think this show is great.
      I used to have two sales reps from Russia. When they first came to the country, they did things like this guy did. One bought and sold cars he bought at auctions, did minor repairs, detailed them, and sold each of them for a few thousand dollars profit.

      The other one had a full time job moving furniture, when I met him...but he made a small fortune importing goods to Russia to waiting buyers. I remember he went to a soap rendering plant (I went with him. The smell was awful) and made a deal for a container (large shipping container) of soap for tens of thousands of dollars in profit. He also imported frozen chickens (to Russia and other countries), new cars....I suspect much of this was under the table, because he also worked full time for me as a rep. And a great one too.

      Years ago, I found a finance company that would approve anyone for an installment loan, and pay 80% of the amount financed. Meaning, The customers financed something bought at retail, and the dealer would get 80% of the amount financed...no matter how bad the buyer's credit was. In home sales distributors usually had about 25% of their finance applications (for customers) turned down.

      I made the rounds to as many in home sales distributors as I could, and offered them 40% of the amount financed on all their declined credit applications. It was still profitable to them (and they didn't have to refund the down payment or pick up what was sold), and I'd just turn the credit application in to the new finance company...and collect 40% of the sale for my trouble. I lived well for a couple of years selling my own stuff and financing other people's sales...until the finance company went out of business.
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  • Profile picture of the author cearionmarie
    Everyone has his/her own circumstances and is totally different from others. But I think where you are meant to be will always be where you will be heading. No matter your conditions as long as you have the right mindset, you should be able to recover.
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  • Profile picture of the author socialentry
    I was curious enough to google a bit more and found this:
    https://www.mpamag.com/news/how-one-...nch-18500.aspx


    So in summary:
    -His company was devoid of toxic assets when the Great Recession hit.

    -This allowed him to de facto buy out his competitors' employees for pennies when they all went bankrupt


    Other news is that the company baring his name filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy recently citing raising interest rates as the culprit.




    How do you networking factoring into all this?



    It seems to me effort + right place right time more so then networking at least in this case.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

      So in summary:
      -His company was devoid of toxic assets when the Great Recession hit.

      -This allowed him to de facto buy out his competitors' employees for pennies when they all went bankrupt

      Other news is that the company baring his name filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy recently citing raising interest rates as the culprit.

      How do you networking factoring into all this?

      It seems to me effort + right place right time more so then networking at least in this case.
      If you follow Gary Vaynerchuck at all you would know this EXACT strategy is his long term personal strategy. Once the economy plummets, he is going to by a "Brand" for pennies and at the same time buy advertising talent at pennies

      But where is the networking? The office had closed... IE no receptionist to answer the phone, meaning he had the guys personal phone number - THAT is networking
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  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
    Networking... I think its arguably one of the most critic elements to success.

    Networking as I see it falls into 2 categories. There is the one spoken about here "friends" or peer networking,and then there is what I call "networking at scale"

    As DABK mentions networking or referral by association is a method that can be used to instantly increase TRUST. As Socialentry points out in many cases its not the overall best advice, and there is an agenda. BUT There are simply things in life people share because it is that good. Im kinda sorta a health not ( that smokes lol ) but at any opportunity I will share PB2 with whomever I am talking to about adding protein to your diet. Its simply that good - and there is no agenda behind it.

    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

    Not using that idea is the main thing that kept me from building a truly large business. Always a loner. Always thinking about the next deal.
    as much as Claude says this.. YES he was thinking about the next deal, but every single house he entered and displayed his fine crafted Vacuum I am sure to bet he asked if they knew others that would be interested. Introduction by association IS networking.

    So what separates above with "Networking at scale"? For ME.. networking at scale is eating breakfast at 10am on a Tuesday at Denny's. Not because the food is good, but to see and be seen. In the last 52 weeks I have missed 2. Or the local gas station every morning about 8am to get a cup of coffee.. the coffee is not that good, BUT between the City workers and the Lawyers and Doctors I say hi to every morning it has value.

    MY overall sales approach when time warrants is to just stop in and say hi..Im not selling, Im introducing myself... Often times not even mentioning what it is I do for a living. Its learning about them - its ALL about them, and very little to do with me. In turn I use my network - So and so asks me "hey where do you get X?" I will respond "oh this little store on Main street, So and so seems like a good guy, why not stop in and tell him I sent you." Social influence within a community setting is HUGE.

    So what happens when its not local? What happens when I drop into a city half way across the country with a desire to meet a person to make a pitch to? I do my best to make an appointment. "Hey, how many are in the office I will bring lunch - where do you guys like to eat?" hardly EVER speak to the "Decision Maker" prior to sitting down and having a quick bite.

    I then revert to Networking by association, and get the person I am speaking to, to refer others and hopefully that afternoon sit down with a group of 3 -4 or more others over an early dinner and close deals. - only to head to the airport and head home for the day.

    When you look at MLM and some of the tactics used... Standing in the mall and pitching to any and every one. Or always with a card and a pitch as you walk down the street. There are some lessons to be learned here... You think cold calling is bad.. YOU go stand in a mall and try to sell an "opportunity" - and to be straight up honest here, I have never done this - wouldn't want to - I have a network that extends beyond my parents and best friends LOL.

    I think a lot of that has to do with being a military brat and moving OFTEN. I was literally raised in an environment of change and adapting and it has served me well. new state new friends, new city, new friends, new Neighborhood, new friends, new school new friends. I have had a LOT of practice in my early years to win the hearts and minds of people QUICKLY - and I take it for granted, its who I am, but I do understand it is a skill - better yet an asset in my success.

    I also think having the ability to know who can do what for who is a skill in itself.. you can KNOW a lot of people, but until that something clicks that this one and that one doing this together might be a good thing - and setting things in motion - you go from having a "Contact list" to actually having a "network"
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    • Profile picture of the author socialentry
      Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

      Networking... I think its arguably one of the most critic elements to success.

      So what separates above with "Networking at scale"? For ME.. networking at scale is eating breakfast at 10am on a Tuesday at Denny's. Not because the food is good, but to see and be seen. In the last 52 weeks I have missed 2. Or the local gas station every morning about 8am to get a cup of coffee.. the coffee is not that good, BUT between the City workers and the Lawyers and Doctors I say hi to every morning it has value.

      MY overall sales approach when time warrants is to just stop in and say hi..Im not selling, Im introducing myself... Often times not even mentioning what it is I do for a living. Its learning about them - its ALL about them, and very little to do with me. In turn I use my network - So and so asks me "hey where do you get X?" I will respond "oh this little store on Main street, So and so seems like a good guy, why not stop in and tell him I sent you." Social influence within a community setting is HUGE.


      ...
      I think a lot of that has to do with being a military brat and moving OFTEN. I was literally raised in an environment of change and adapting and it has served me well. new state new friends, new city, new friends, new Neighborhood, new friends, new school new friends. I have had a LOT of practice in my early years to win the hearts and minds of people QUICKLY - and I take it for granted, its who I am, but I do understand it is a skill - better yet an asset in my success.

      Is this networking done in a "Come what may" fashion?

      If so, would it translate well to a metropolitan area?

      how important is it to "blend in"? And is it better to go deep and narrow or wide and shallow?

      In small towns, I can see how economic power could be concentrated in just a few hands and so inevitably the doctors, lawyers, cops, city workers, would all hang out together but where I live it seems that various sectors of society all act as tribes that barely talk to each other.

      It may sound a bit naive, but would for example, making a commitment to regularly hang out on the local golf club be a good investment of time?

      So what happens when its not local? What happens when I drop into a city half way across the country with a desire to meet a person to make a pitch to? I do my best to make an appointment. "Hey, how many are in the office I will bring lunch - where do you guys like to eat?" hardly EVER speak to the "Decision Maker" prior to sitting down and having a quick bite.
      I then revert to Networking by association, and get the person I am speaking to, to refer others and hopefully that afternoon sit down with a group of 3 -4 or more others over an early dinner and close deals. - only to head to the airport and head home for the day.
      What do you do if you have nothing in common with the other party?

      In sales it was OK because both party understand there is a purpose to the conversation so I didn't have to be really creative.

      The big difficulty for me when doing open ended networking is that I share almost no interests with the average person. I grew up in a very traditional household with tiger parents so even my teenage years were different then most.

      If there is a common goal or a game or something, it's usually fine but I wouldn't know where to start in the situation above if I were say to sit with a bunch of mechanics at lunchbreak.
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      • Profile picture of the author savidge4
        Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

        Is this networking done in a "Come what may" fashion?
        Not sure I would say that... Its to a point calculated. If you read the main board at all.. well this board even, there is a lot of discussion about being where the buyers are. Learn where they hang out and be there. In the " Real World " it plays out very much the same - but literally in a physical sense.

        Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

        If so, would it translate well to a metropolitan area?
        Yes, it does. Regardless of where you live be it a big city or small town USA, or some small village in Scotland, there is going to be a breakfast joint that once a week or a number of mornings a week the local influencers gather. The same actually holds true in the afternoon for drinks. generally a different crowd, but the same effect.

        Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

        how important is it to "blend in"? And is it better to go deep and narrow or wide and shallow?
        blending in... I think you might be surprised what the breakfast circle of influence looks like. Many communities the "Mayor" might show up, along with some old timers and some of the younger up and comings. It tends to be a wide variety of types so blending isn't so much needed. I have a habit of driving a big truck, and wear black khakis and a red t-shirt under a black work shirt ( dickeys short sleeve if you are wondering ) It is a bit of an image thing... I am a working man.. I work for my clients, and look the part.

        Question #2 deep and wide if possible. You need to be on the seedy side of town as much as you are on the doorstep of financial influencers. It all comes full circle one way or another.

        Think of it this way we are all connected within 7 levels of relation to any and everyone in the world. The seedy guy could cut the rich guys grass and somehow your name is brought up and both agree you are a good guy. The seedy guy will see you as a point of influence, and the rich guy will see you as down to earth - you win both ways.

        Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

        In small towns, I can see how economic power could be concentrated in just a few hands and so inevitably the doctors, lawyers, cops, city workers, would all hang out together but where I live it seems that various sectors of society all act as tribes that barely talk to each other.
        I don't think its that cut and dry... most rich guys will use the same barber.. the barber by proxy becomes one of them. They will use the same handyman, or the same lawn care service, or the same pool service, or the same contractor to build their new home.

        And THEN lets discuss influencers spouses... Wives are gabby... Hair dressers are gabby, the cupcake shop person is gabby.

        There are without question many outlets and level of interaction between the top and bottom, and doing your best to reach out across multiple layers is a big deal.

        Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

        It may sound a bit naive, but would for example, making a commitment to regularly hang out on the local golf club be a good investment of time?
        I will answer this by saying I am a member of my local CC. Membership is an investment, you can make it worth while or just spend money.. its on you. Church... its another one of those things. I would go so far to say a Catholic church if the intent in religion is for business gain. - just saying

        Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

        What do you do if you have nothing in common with the other party?
        Talk about them - the conversation generally goes 2 ways.. the person I am talking to wants what I have, or I want what they have - I hear things like "like your truck" and I might say things like "Nice car - Im in the wrong business"

        Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

        In sales it was OK because both party understand there is a purpose to the conversation so I didn't have to be really creative.
        Its A L L selling. I just have a different approach... talking to people is " qualifying " them. Are they buyers... or who might they know that would be

        Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

        The big difficulty for me when doing open ended networking is that I share almost no interests with the average person. I grew up in a very traditional household with tiger parents so even my teenage years were different then most.
        And diversity becomes your biggest asset... "What do you think of X? I am asking because I grew up with Y, and I just dont understand." - Its about THEM, and it creates interest in YOU, and the back and forth happens naturally at that point

        Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

        If there is a common goal or a game or something, it's usually fine but I wouldn't know where to start in the situation above if I were say to sit with a bunch of mechanics at lunchbreak.
        A great example of someone to talk to... people with money drive nice cars. People that work on nice cars tend to have a passion for cars in general... some might even race cars or build cars or what have you. In my case, they are potential prospects for web development - to take their passion and put it on the web. ( usually at a discount ) Because these type are gateways to the upper levels.... they share with the guys that have the really nice cars - that ultimately they look down apon... " Poser " can afford the beast, but has no clue how to drive it.

        Circles of influence knows no boundaries. there is no such thing as inclusive or exclusive, until you try and categorize a single person.. but again you miss the greater point of contact that person may have.

        Networking as I do it living my every day life is equal across all demographics. rich, poor male, female Professional, trades. Its about increasing your Circle to decrease the needed touches to get to who you need to get to. My immediate community... Everyone is a step or 2 away VS 7.

        Take me away from here.. and 1 phone call setting up lunch puts me within the circle of reach of the person I am meeting. forget selling if you will, its about hearts and minds.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

        The big difficulty for me when doing open ended networking is that I share almost no interests with the average person. I grew up in a very traditional household with tiger parents so even my teenage years were different then most.
        Do what I do...I just memorized a few questions to get the ball rolling, like ..
        "What do you do for a living?"
        "What do you enjoy most about this?"
        Complement them on something. Make it a genuine compliment on something you really like.

        I'm truly not a social person. I say things that people interpret as being social.

        If you listened to ten instances of my "small talk" you would find that i just say the same things to everyone.

        When someone says something I'm not interested in, I say "I hear you" or "There you go". It sounds like I'm engaged with them, but I'm really not.

        You can do the same.
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  • Profile picture of the author misterme
    Did my eyes deceive me or didn't he sell the tires to that buyer while they were both on the same lot he got the tires from?

    If I left a car on the side of the road with a for sale sign on it, I'd find it a day later without tires and with a ticket in the windshield.

    As far as his networking success, it helps to have a camera crew following you saying they're taping it for a TV show. People tend to be more agreeable when the camera's on them and they're getting their fifteen minutes of fame.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by misterme View Post

      Did my eyes deceive me or didn't he sell the tires to that buyer while they were both on the same lot he got the tires from?
      I noticed that too......but the tires are too big for him to move. And the buyer isn't going to go through all that trash.
      I used to advertise that I would pay cash for something...and advertise that it was for sale...in the same section of the newspaper....on the same day... And nobody ever mentioned it. Weird.


      Originally Posted by misterme View Post

      As far as his networking success, it helps to have a camera crew following you saying they're taping it for a TV show. People tend to be more agreeable when the camera's on them and they're getting their fifteen minutes of fame.
      I think in most cases, that's true. I notice he held back the cameras when selling cars or buying them.

      Now that you brought it up, I wonder if I took a camera man with me to sell vacuum cleaners in people's homes...how much it would increase sales?


      By the way. This guy lived out of a truck for a week, when it was freezing every night, and got violently ill at the beginning of the second episode.

      Me? I would have quit at that point. He didn't. That's the thing that impressed me the most.
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      • Profile picture of the author misterme
        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

        I would love to see a TV show about other successful people doing similar things, but go into poor neighborhoods and help them start businesses on a very low budget.
        Oh, watch "Marrying Millions," that's close enough.

        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Now that you brought it up, I wonder if I took a camera man with me to sell vacuum cleaners in people's homes...how much it would increase sales?
        A person knowingly being recorded tends to behave in the way they think is expected. But will they spend money because of it? I doubt it. My hunch is they'll instead come up with eloquent and graceful reasons not to buy if they're not buying, to look good on camera.

        I'm sure it's been done where at a sales appointment, the seller recorded video getting the buyer's permission after informing the buyer it's to train others on how to conduct sales appointments. If it increased sales I think we'd know about it by now.

        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        This guy lived out of a truck for a week, when it was freezing every night, and got violently ill at the beginning of the second episode.

        Me? I would have quit at that point. He didn't. That's the thing that impressed me the most.
        He defaults one million dollars if he quits. Or, if they have an illness clause that lets him off the hook, maybe he didn't want to give up the TV show. Or maybe he really does want to help out those people. Especially the tattooed guy because he's so Erie.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by misterme View Post

          Oh, watch "Marrying Millions," that's close enough.



          A person knowingly being recorded tends to behave in the way they think is expected. But will they spend money because of it? I doubt it. My hunch is they'll instead come up with eloquent and graceful reasons not to buy if they're not buying, to look good on camera.
          Agreed. When I was a speaker (and to the room, a celebrity) I would offer my pitch. Some would buy, some wouldn't. But if I talked to them after I spoke, if they weren't going to buy, they would always act very enthusiastic, and swear to God that they were going to buy.....as soon as......and they were always going to get the biggest package.....right after....

          I had to learn a new way to receive an objection to buying.


          On he other hand, sometimes customers come to the store after they have read one of my books, or watched a few of my Youtube videos. and they always buy. And part of that has to be the thought that they are talking to a celebrity (in the most minor sense of the word)



          Originally Posted by misterme View Post

          He defaults one million dollars if he quits. Or, if they have an illness clause that lets him off the hook, maybe he didn't want to give up the TV show. Or maybe he really does want to help out those people. Especially the tattooed guy because he's so Erie.
          I had forgotten about the million dollars forfeit. I suspect that he wouldn't quit anyway.

          I noticed how he sort of gathers people around him and takes them on his journey. These people become invested in him.

          I think he really cares about these people. He seems absolutely genuine.

          When he says (paraphrasing) "I can't pay you for three months. But this will be fun, and we'll create something great"......

          I can imagine some people following that man. And I can imagine that he feels strongly about rewarding their trust in him, and their efforts.

          About half way through the second episode, I said to my wife "I love this guy". I have no insights into what happens next, but I'd bet on him.


          Added later; I think most of the appeal of this show isn't the premise...it's this guy. You watch his struggle, and it becomes your struggle. I really am pulling for him to make this work.

          On the other had, this is obviously recorded,ad already all over with....so we have to assume that he made it work, and just came in under the wire. What a boring show it would be if everything he tried just worked out perfectly.
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          • Profile picture of the author Kurt
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


            Added later; I think most of the appeal of this show isn't the premise...it's this guy. You watch his struggle, and it becomes your struggle. I really am pulling for him to make this work.

            On the other had, this is obviously recorded,ad already all over with....so we have to assume that he made it work, and just came in under the wire. What a boring show it would be if everything he tried just worked out perfectly.
            I agree. I think a big part is he's likable, like I said before, and you root for him unlike other rich people. He also seems like he delegates well and lets people work without micromanaging them.


            Another part I like is he's building something from <almost> nothing. There's nothing wrong with Mark Cuban on Shark Tank making a $200,000 investment, but I find this a lot more interesting.
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

              Another part I like is he's building something from <almost> nothing. There's nothing wrong with Mark Cuban on Shark Tank making a $200,000 investment, but I find this a lot more interesting.
              Something I haven't seen in this series is bartering.

              When I moved into a new area (to open an office or store) I would buy most everything with barter.

              For example, I needed office furniture, so I would find an office that was closing, and offer to trade their furniture for something I had. In my case, usually a vacuum cleaner.

              I would buy used vacuums in bulk for $5 or $10 each..throw away half of them, ad spend a few dollars rebuilding the good ones. I might have half an hour of my time, and $30 total invested in a vacuum cleaner that looked like new, and would retail for $500 new.

              So I would offer my $500 vacuum cleaner for a room of office furniture. The trick was, you had to find someone who essentially just wanted to get rid of the furniture, or had a high mark up on what they sold.

              But after seeing 2 or 3 sellers, you would find someone who would agree to it.

              So a typical deal wold be getting $5,000 worth of furniture (or whatever it was) from someone who just needed to move it (maybe they were thinking of donating it), and offer them a $500 vacuum cleaner for it...which cost me $30.

              Yes, I did that once.

              I've bartered for advertising, printing, exercise equipment, cars, and more. The limitation is that you usually can't do it more than once with the same supplier.

              But liquidations of bigger ticket items can usually give you a supply of barter items.

              And yes, once I traded a vacuum cleaner for a home gym, or a gun...I now had something else to barter with.

              One of the ways I made so many sales over the decades was to be creative in my financing of my sales. I would sell a vacuum cleaner that had a $2,000 price tag, and if the couldn't pay with a credit card, cash, check, or have good credit...I'd often find something they had that I knew I could easily sell for over $2,000.

              Often I would offer to buy something from them, for several hundred dollars, so that they would feel like they were getting a greater value. When I was still making a good profit at the lower cost, and could often still sell what I bought from them.

              Even when buying my used vacuum cleaners (from in home vacuum cleaner salespeople), I would often offer them barter, to reduce my cost further.

              The only downside is that this takes a little time (if it's your only business) and you have to find motivated sellers, and eager buyers.

              But this Undercover Billionaire could probably speed up the process if he used barter in some instances.
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              • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                Something I haven't seen in this series is bartering.

                When I moved into a new area (to open an office or store) I would buy most everything with barter.

                Kinda of like what I said about the "red paper clip" thing.

                At first, you have to worry about cash flow and how to get any cash ASAP, which is what he did. I think he's started to barter, but not with tangible items, but with his skills and the skills of others, which have intangible value.

                I actually have an old pickup with a shell on the back and think about stuff like this. LOL...I'd see if there were any flea markets, storage locker auctions or estate auctions I where I could hang out with a "For Hire" sign up on my pickup. I have a hitch and UHauls are cheap.

                In my youth when I needed some cash I'd go hang out at the DMV and get a couple of tickets with numbers on them and sell them to people just arriving at lunch time, saving them an hour or two waiting time. It has to be a busy DMV.

                I could make $20-40 pretty quickly, but it wasn't "sustainable" because security would eventually recognize me/anyone and chase you off.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    One missing elements is he has confidence that comes from past experiences and successes. If it were me, I'd be very afraid that we didn't make any money due to me and everyone else did their jobs. He knows certain things will work and many of us don't.

    There's some questions I have and a few coincidences, like in real life I've seen the same "for sales" cars parked for months...but I still think this is my favorite business show I've seen. There's a lot to learn.

    I would love to see a TV show about other successful people doing similar things, but go into poor neighborhoods and help them start businesses on a very low budget.
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  • Profile picture of the author max5ty
    Once upon a time...

    I would come up with an idea.

    Research the idea.

    Plan the implementation.

    Research the idea.

    Replan the implementation.

    Research some more.

    Consider a new approach which required more research and implementation planning.

    Then if I hadn't gone off on another tangent which led to me considering another idea...

    I'd go through the day daydreaming to myself:

    Things like: These people walking by me have no idea that I'm about to take the world by storm...or...I need to keep this idea quiet or someone will steal it...or...

    Then maybe just maybe after daydreaming and some more planning and research I'd implement the idea.

    Usually to discover I was full of crap with my idea or the market didn't really give a hoot about my idea. Or, even with all my planning and research I still did it all screwed up...which led me to believe I should have done more research and planning.

    I ended that whole "ton of research and planning hoopla nonsense".

    Wasn't a decision I carefully thought out while sipping tea at the Coffee Cafe on Park Avenue in Manhattan.

    Nope. Was a decision I made when I was sleeping in an abandoned car in an alley somewhere in the south end of town.

    All my procrastination with planning and researching and planning and researching had driven me to the point of being homeless.

    Funny things happen when you're broke and desperate.

    You become hungry for money.

    You need it bad.

    You come up with an idea. You give it a go. If it doesn't work you immediately move on to something else or you redesign your approach almost on the fly. You realize you learn more about your idea by just doing it then you'd ever learn by watching another webinar. Watching another video. Reading another book. Surfing the internet for inspiration and bookmarking tons of sights to use for a swipe file in the future.

    Truth be told - most of all the research and planning is because we're too afraid of a lot of things. We're afraid of failure. We're afraid what people will think of us. We're afraid we'll start and realize there was a better way we could have done it. We're afraid to get out and talk to people because they may think our idea sucks. What if a business owner looks at me and thinks I have no clue what I'm talking about? What if he considers me a fraud? What if they compare me to some other big smartypants business that does what I want to do...but they've got fancy flyers and a big name? If you're like me, I had a whole list of other insecurities I could add.

    So to get to my point...and I do have one...

    a lot of viewers will watch the show and get excited and hopefully get some inspiration.

    But it's not the first inspiration they've had. It's not the first time they've gotten excited about something. And...it's not the first time most (almost all) will watch and still do nothing.

    I know because I was one of those people.

    Now I take an idea and implement it quickly.

    Doesn't always work, but I've found out that those who use the phrase "fail quickly" knew what they were talking about.

    Time and time again I've discovered that no amount of research or planning is going to prepare you for what's ahead.

    The whole plan often changes. The whole market often changes. The whole idea may be worthless.

    So I know I'm long-winded...but I'm trying to get you to understand that it's important to just get out and do it. If you're selling flashlights, get out and try it. If you're selling pencils get out and try it. You'll learn more from trying something then you'll ever learn by sitting around looking for more inspiration.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

      You come up with an idea. You give it a go. If it doesn't work you immediately move on to something else or you redesign your approach almost on the fly.
      I was explaining to a friend of mine that 9 out of ten books published never sell out of their first printing, and the publisher loses money on them. My friend asked how publishers made money then. I told her that if a book isn't selling, they stop printing copies of it. And they keep printing copies of the 10% that really sell.




      Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

      So I know I'm long-winded...but I'm trying to get you to understand that it's important to just get out and do it. If you're selling flashlights, get out and try it. If you're selling pencils get out and try it. You'll learn more from trying something then you'll ever learn by sitting around looking for more inspiration.
      The main thing I got out of this show so far, isn't how inventive he is, but how doggedly determined he is, and he spends every waking moment advancing his position.

      If he tries to sell doggie toys, and nobody buys...he doesn't keep trying the same thing over and over again. He tries something else.

      Another thing I got was that he has multiple avenues for income, working at the same time. Ads are running, while he's actively making money.

      It's the activity with a purpose that is that I see with him.
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  • Profile picture of the author DURABLEOILCOM
    After reading your post I watched both episodes with my family. Very interesting and he got smacked hard by how hard life is when you are broke. When he was sleeping in his truck and ended up in the hospital I thought he would call it quits. Where there's a Will there's a way. BTW are there any other TV shows like this?
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Originally Posted by DURABLEOILCOM View Post

    After reading your post I watched both episodes with my family. Very interesting and he got smacked hard by how hard life is when you are broke. When he was sleeping in his truck and ended up in the hospital I thought he would call it quits. Where there's a Will there's a way. BTW are there any other TV shows like this?
    There's a number of business related shows. What makes this one different is this guy starts out broke. The others tend to be rich guys either investing in businesses or consulting with failing businesses...with a lot of what seems to be fake drama and conflict tossed in.

    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

    I was explaining to a friend of mine that 9 out of ten books published never sell out of their first printing, and the publisher loses money on them. My friend asked how publishers made money then. I told her that if a book isn't selling, they stop printing copies of it. And they keep printing copies of the 10% that really sell.
    Same principle as counting cards in blackjack. Skilled players lose more hands than they win. However, they win a higher percentage of hands with multiple units (more money) being bet. You bet more when you have an advantage and less when you don't.

    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

    The main thing I got out of this show so far, isn't how inventive he is, but how doggedly determined he is, and he spends every waking moment advancing his position.

    If he tries to sell doggie toys, and nobody buys...he doesn't keep trying the same thing over and over again. He tries something else.

    Another thing I got was that he has multiple avenues for income, working at the same time. Ads are running, while he's actively making money.

    It's the activity with a purpose that is that I see with him.
    I agree, he isn't being all that creative. But he does has some some knowledge and skills, which can be learned.

    I think the biggest skill is finding your customers first and how he applied it by looking at "Want to Buy" ads was really good. As simple as it seems, I've never thought of specifically looking for "Want to Buy" ads. You could probably expand to "Want to Hire" too.

    Also, in the years I've been online, you'll often see folks posts things like "What should I do first?"...Often the best answer isn't one or another, but all of the above.

    Make a list of all possibilities, prioritize them in some way, and start checking them off. I read a recent study by Harvard that simply keeping a written log improves efficiency by 23%. Make a list and either check them off or scratch them off.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      I think the biggest skill is finding your customers first and how he applied it by looking at "Want to Buy" ads was really good.
      He looked at "Want to buy" ads. He's right. Find the buyers first.

      I can't wait for tonight's episode. This is real drama.

      By the way, one thing he has as a big advantage is that he already thinks like a billionaire. So he isn't hesitant talking to business owners. Thinking big, being at ease with large numbers...are already comfortable for him.

      Jim Rohn once said "Become a millionaire not for the million dollars, but for what it will make of you to achieve it.".

      All my life I've heard people say "If I ever made a million dollars, I'd...." A few times in the last few years, I'd interrupt them and say "No. That's not what you would do. Because making a million dollars from your own efforts changes what you are. It changes your outlook, how you see the world. "

      Making a large sum of money changes how you see the world. Getting married, having a baby, buying a home...all changes you.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        He looked at "Want to buy" ads. He's right. Find the buyers first.

        I can't wait for tonight's episode. This is real drama.

        By the way, one thing he has as a big advantage is that he already thinks like a billionaire. So he isn't hesitant talking to business owners. Thinking big, being at ease with large numbers...are already comfortable for him.

        Jim Rohn once said "Become a millionaire not for the million dollars, but for what it will make of you to achieve it.".

        All my life I've heard people say "If I ever made a million dollars, I'd...." A few times in the last few years, I'd interrupt them and say "No. That's not what you would do. Because making a million dollars from your own efforts changes what you are. It changes your outlook, how you see the world. "

        Making a large sum of money changes how you see the world. Getting married, having a baby, buying a home...all changes you.
        Another advantage is he knows the partners will get paid and the company will be worth at least $1 million at the end of the 90 days. While the partners think there is risk, Glen knows there isn't.

        For me to make the same deals, I would have to BS people. He knows things will turn out OK. Because of this, most of us won't be able to repeat everything he's doing. But it's still a really interesting personal challenge and there's a lot to learn or remember.
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        • Profile picture of the author misterme
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          Same principle as counting cards in blackjack. Skilled players lose more hands than they win. However, they win a higher percentage of hands with multiple units (more money) being bet. You bet more when you have an advantage and less when you don't.
          Yes, the advantage or "edge" AKA "Positive Expectation." Which is also has casinos make money, even though they have high operating expenses and lots of payouts, sometimes massive. The Bellagio fountain costs $15,000 every time it operates and yet, if you're a high roller with perks, your box seat features a button you can press to turn on the fountain for your entertainment. Yet casinos can afford these expenses because they have the edge.

          So, there's a calculation to determine what your edge is. Where WP in the winning percentage of your hands, sales meetings, whatever, and LP is losing percentage, weighing the average profit you make after expenses when you win/make the sale minus what it costs you in expenses on average when you lose/don't get the sale:

          (WP * Average Profit) - (LP * Average Cost)

          As an example, say you profit on average $5000 when you get the sale, but it costs you $500 when you don't. And let's assume that your closing ratio is a lukewarm 50%.

          (0.50 * 5000) - (0.50 * 500)
          = 2500 - 250
          = 2250

          Meaning with that system, every sales meeting (or hand) is worth $2250. All of a sudden one understands you can not close half (or more) of the prospects you meet with and yet prosper - IF your sales process has an edge. Knowing what your edge is, is part of running your business.

          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          As simple as it seems, I've never thought of specifically looking for "Want to Buy" ads. .
          Different, because most people going into business get into what they'd like to sell rather than what's sale-able, and never determine whether there's a market for yet another seller of the same goods but rather, look to take a slice of the pie from existing providers.

          Yet ultimately, he's kind of doing that by getting into craft beer.

          But I was surprised in his initial guerrilla money-making mode he didn't also look for sellers but rather went the route of becoming the "supplier" so to speak by using up man hours and labor to hunt down product instead of finding multiple sellers with whom to create a meeting of the minds with the buyers.
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  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    Just saw the third episode last night.

    This guy goes from being a homeless man in a truck, with only $100 to his name...

    to being an entrepreneur, that owns a home he is going to sell, has an apartment, has a business idea he is actively pursuing, has a group of people working for him..on faith alone.

    All in 30 days.

    Did you notice how his not being able to get a brewery licence in time didn't stop him? He just changes the business.

    When I was selling vacuum cleaners in 1981, a recession killed my financing (nobody paid with credit cards back then). The day I found out, I started selling life insurance.

    My brother-in-law once asked me, "What are you going to do if people stop buying vacuum cleaners suddenly?"

    I said "If the vacuum cleaner industry dies on Wednesday, On Thursday, I'll be in the shoe business".

    This guy really has my juices going. I'm coasting to retirement right now. He has me thinking that I have a little fire left in me. We'll see.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    My big question is how did he get approved for the home loan using a fake name? Don't banks do any kind of background check?
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    • Profile picture of the author DABK
      That would be fraud, the kind that gets you jail time.

      Banks check.

      PS Is he still a billionaire?
      Stearns Lending filed for bankruptcy in July this year; he owed close to 30% of that company...

      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      My big question is how did he get approved for the home loan using a fake name? Don't banks do any kind of background check?
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    • Profile picture of the author DWolfe
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      My big question is how did he get approved for the home loan using a fake name? Don't banks do any kind of background check?
      Did he say during the show it was a Bank loan ? It could of been a Hard Money loan from a Investor based on the After Repair Value. They were popular before the 2007 Housing crash.

      Has anybody kept track of the money he has earned so far ? Curious how is fueling that truck every week and a few other Misc items.

      How do all those vehicles he was selling have plates on them, to let the people road test them. In NJ you have to title the vehicle, have insurance and register it to get plates?
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      My big question is how did he get approved for the home loan using a fake name? Don't banks do any kind of background check?
      My guess is that he used his real name. I don't see how that would change anything. He still put down the same as anyone else. And he got a $10,000 construction loan. I'm sure the bank would have done the same for just about anyone. I don't remember if he used a bank loan, or a broker.

      Originally Posted by DWolfe View Post

      Has anybody kept track of the money he has earned so far ? Curious how is fueling that truck every week and a few other Misc items.

      How do all those vehicles he was selling have plates on them, to let the people road test them. In NJ you have to title the vehicle, have insurance and register it to get plates?
      I think he had almost $10,000 cash in hand after the second car was sold. After the home down payment and a few expenses, I think he's down to a thousand or less.


      He keeps track of all this expenses. He shows his "Cash in hand" after every transaction.

      I was wondering about the car title and license plates myself. My guess is that they didn't include those details, because it's boring TV. His insurance? No idea.

      Although I think he probably had insurance on his truck. Remember that he paid $250 at the emergency room?
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        My guess is that he used his real name. I don't see how that would change anything. He still put down the same as anyone else. And he got a $10,000 construction loan. I'm sure the bank would have done the same for just about anyone. I don't remember if he used a bank loan, or a broker.
        There's a number of possibilities, and I think it's a legit question. It would change the entire promise of the show if he used his real name.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          There's a number of possibilities, and I think it's a legit question. It would change the entire promise of the show if he used his real name.
          For the loan? Nobody outside the bank would know. None of the participants would know.

          Originally Posted by umc View Post

          I've got to say that I am an episode behind, I think, just watching the one where he gets people to join him for Underdog BBQ. There's something about him and the show I just can't connect to. He's not got much personality from what I can see, he's not someone that I honestly particularly like though I like his personal story. The show seems too produced or something, it just feels off to me. I like the lessons but I honestly find it hard to believe that these people are following some rando without any money and with a meh idea that isn't really unique. He doesn't seem to have much personality and isn't the type I'd normally think of people rallying around.
          We all see people differently. To me he has a personality that just radiates trust. personally, I'm pulling for him...although I'm fairly certain that he gets to his goal...or it would be a worse show. The show is really produced. Lots of little details are left out. But it's an hour show, and it covers a week of constant effort.

          I believe that the people are following him. Remember that most of the people he interviewed wouldn't go along with it. It would slow down the show to put in every attempt, every interview, every potential buyer of the cars....that didn't pan out.


          Originally Posted by umc View Post

          I still can't believe he got the cars at the price he did.
          I do. And I explained it in a previous post. The seller was the son of the car lot owner, the lot was closing, the son was told to just "get rid of the cars". The offer that was made was probably the only offer he had. When businesses close, most left over inventory is sold for pennies on the wholesale dollar. The lot owner just wanted to close his doors.

          Originally Posted by DURABLEOILCOM View Post

          Does anybody else feel like the entire show is staged?
          All reality shows are staged in that they edit to make in more exciting. Having a camera guy follow you around to every interview, on every job, changes people's behaviors a tad.

          I suspect that the "Business lesson" segments, where he sits and gives advice to us, was filmed after everything happened. All of this may have happened a year or so ago. The series has to be sold, created, edited, ad there is post editing...probably a few scenes added to create more drama.

          But do I think it's all just scripted? No.
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          • Profile picture of the author umc
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


            I do. And I explained it in a previous post. The seller was the son of the car lot owner, the lot was closing, the son was told to just "get rid of the cars". The offer that was made was probably the only offer he had. When businesses close, most left over inventory is sold for pennies on the wholesale dollar. The lot owner just wanted to close his doors.
            And I don't, as I'll explain. You could put those cars on Craigslist, or wherever this guy on the show found them, and sell them for more than that in no time flat. Those were stupid low prices. I've sold cars, I've flipped cars, and I've never come across deals like that and if there was one they'd be snapped up in zero time flat. I understand the concept of liquidating, but again I've never seen a deal like that and somehow he just comes into this in a new city with no network? Come on now. The kid even held the Escalade for the guy on the show too. Really?

            You see it different. That's fine.
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by umc View Post

              And I don't, as I'll explain. You could put those cars on Craigslist, or wherever this guy on the show found them, and sell them for more than that in no time flat. Those were stupid low prices. .
              And it was a really stupid seller. He had no idea what he was doing.

              Stearns could have gone to dozens of dealers before he found the motivated, stupid, son of a dealer. My guess is that the kid's father wasn't too happy with him.

              For a few years I used to advertise air purifiers (one specific brand) as used for $350. In exactly the same paper, on the same page, I advertised that I was buying them. I offered $75 if they were new, and $50 if they were used. These cost the sellers about $400 and they sold new for $600.

              About 75%..maybe 80% of the people calling me were upset and offended that I offered such a low offer. But...most days I'd get one person that just wanted to get rid of them, and I'd buy their stock...for 20% of what they paid. Like I said, they were foolish to sell at such a low price, when they saw an ad selling used units for $350. But humans are like that.

              And I've bought several store's inventory when they are just about to close. Completely new vacuum cleaners, for 20% of wholesale. Pretty standard for liquidations of new stock. I once bought over $10,000 wholesale in vacuum cleaner parts for $200...because I got there the day they were closing their doors. The same with office furniture if the business is closing, or hotel furniture.

              When I owned an office, and had about a dozen in home vacuum cleaner salespeople, we had a large room full of high quality trade in vacuums. There were several hundred that I kept, because I would advertise them individually, in the local newspaper.

              But that month, the store room was getting full. A different dealer (who sold what I sold) stopped by one day while I wasn't there. When I got back, I noticed that the room was empty. My office manager told me "I sold all those trade ins to Bob Frary for $35. We needed the space".

              Well, I was expecting to sell them for a lot more. I said "Well, $35 each isn't much, but it's not the end of the world".

              He said "No. $35 for all of them". He truly had no idea what he did. I almost hit him. One of the few times I screamed at an employee. Some people just...have...no..idea...what ...they...are ....doing.

              Of course, Bob Frary knew what he did. He knew I'd be very angry. And he knew, without me ever saying a word, not to show up again.
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      • Profile picture of the author socialentry
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        My guess is that he used his real name. I don't see how that would change anything.

        Glenn Stearns, billionaire, is a pretty good prospect for a loan I'd say.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

          Glenn Stearns, billionaire, is a pretty good prospect for a loan I'd say.
          I'm not sure his wealth would matter. As long as he puts down the needed down payment, most loan brokers can get you the loan.

          When we bought our home, I put 20% down. The mortgage broker told me that with that much down, it doesn't matter who I am, or what my credit looks like.

          I wonder what a Season Two would look like?

          There was a Real Estate Guru named Robert Allen that would take a poor person, with no money or credit, and within 30 days (I think) they would own an income producing property. That was in the 1980s, I think.

          I think he may also be the first to do the "Give me $100, take away everything, and I"ll own a piece of property in less than 30 days" thing.
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    • Profile picture of the author DWolfe
      Some of the points he makes always do your Due Diligence and Know when to Pivot were 2 examples he gave during the show. He worked around the Liquor Lic. by pivoting. But his big mistake looks to be the Due Diligence on the house. He missed the mold and looks to have plumbing issues going forward.

      If the IRS or State is breathing down your neck for back taxes, any cash in hand is better than nothing. Seeing those cars sold that cheap could relieve some of the pressure.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
      Watched episode 3 again and made these notes about the home.


      Asking Price 49.9K
      Offered and Accepted 40K

      Construction Loan 10K

      Down Payment 6.6K
      Closing Cost 1.1K

      Commented: Expecting 85K to 90K.
      Commented: Flip for Profit of 40K.
      Commented: Was in the loan business.
      Commented: Special loans available at low interest.
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      • Profile picture of the author misterme
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Do what I do...I just memorized a few questions to get the ball rolling, like ..
        "What do you do for a living?"
        "What do you enjoy most about this?"
        Complement them on something. Make it a genuine compliment on something you really like.
        I also used to ask, "what made you get into that business?" People love answering that question. Then you never have to say another word for the rest of the night but you do have to avoid being caught looking at your wristwatch.

        So, back to the show... he does say there's a special loan for construction he knows about from being in the loan business. That's where he went for the financing.

        He's not permitted to use his connections or wealth but I don't know why acting on special knowledge doesn't disqualify him.

        I think the show would be better if he tried to build a new billion dollar mortgage company from scratch.

        Originally Posted by umc View Post

        Networking is good, though people may be more willing to help if you're on camera. You don't have to be charismatic or eloquent apparently to get people on your side, though again I think the camera helps.
        Somewhere in the recent episode one of the team members says he'd do it regardless of the camera being there or not. To me, that reaffirms they're very conscious of how the camera influences their behavior to go along with Glenn and what's more, feel they have to deny it to the viewers.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeffery

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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Last night's episode.

      A flurry of activity. The Flip house is behind schedule. They now have a beer brewery that will make them their own brand of beer. He looked at a location, and made a deal. They have a couple of great people to make the barbecue.

      A few things;

      So far, none of these people have been paid a dime, and it should be obvious that he hasn't got any money. Not only are they working on the restaurant idea, but he has his new crew working hard on a home he needs to flip. Either he's just the greatest motivator out there...or something that's happening isn't being shown on the series.

      About the new location. It's called Jekyll & Hyde It is located on a street corner.

      The owner of the building (and business)is willing to rent the restaurant out for $5,000 a month, including the furniture. Almost a turn key operation.

      But how much profit does a bar/restaurant bring in? Why is he willing to walk away for only $5,000 a month? Before I agreed to a deal (if I were looking to rent), I'd ask about traffic, number of patrons a day, why he's eager to get out, how much business is done, and is the business dying or growing.

      A dead location (no matter how good it looks) tends to stay a dead location. Especially if it's the same kind of business.

      As far as I can tell, this guy hasn't made any concrete promises to his crew about compensation...just a general "It will be an adventure to build something great".

      Truthfully, if a guy that was homeless hlast month wanted my help to open a new business, and I'd be compensated later, I still might do it.

      But if he then said "Well, first we have this house I need to renovate and sell because I need that money to open the business...and I need you to help with the renovation", I'd probably walk.

      And that woman that's doing most of the work on the home? That's a lot of work without getting a dime so far.

      I'm still excited about the show, but I wish I knew the whole story.
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      • Profile picture of the author DWolfe
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        And that woman that's doing most of the work on the home? That's a lot of work without getting a dime so far.

        I'm still excited about the show, but I wish I knew the whole story.
        The woman looks like she bit off more than she can chew. The project looks like it is blowing up on her. Wonder why they ripped up some of the hardwood floor last night. Seemed the holes in the ceilings were getting bigger.

        Wonder if these people on the show have figured out they are going to be on some sort of reality television show. Would not be surprised if they knew about Undercover Boss, and Undercover Millionaire and realize they are being used in a new version of those.

        Great point about wishing we knew the whole story.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by DWolfe View Post

          The woman looks like she bit off more than she can chew. The project looks like it is blowing up on her. Wonder why they ripped up some of the hardwood floor last night. Seemed the holes in the ceilings were getting bigger.

          Wonder if these people on the show have figured out they are going to be on some sort of reality television show. Would not be surprised if they knew about Undercover Boss, and Undercover Millionaire and realize they are being used in a new version of those.

          Great point about wishing we knew the whole story.
          I think they know they are going to be on a show. I think he told them that he was filming a documentary on a guy building a business from scratch in Erie Pennsylvania.

          That may have influenced them, because they thought they were going to be on TV. But they don't know who he is, or that he's rich.

          So far, everything his did made sense in that he was going to be ahead of the game at the end of every transaction. But that house could sink you. Deciding to make $40,000 by flipping a house is a huge gamble. Plus, you have to sell it so quickly, so he can make his deadline.

          I wonder if it's permissible to have one of his recruits buy the home in his name to get the money...and they can sell it later? That house is something I would never have done.
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        • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
          Originally Posted by DWolfe View Post

          The woman looks like she bit off more than she can chew. The project looks like it is blowing up on her. Wonder why they ripped up some of the hardwood floor last night. Seemed the holes in the ceilings were getting bigger.

          <snip>

          Great point about wishing we knew the whole story.

          Maybe it is a result of the contractor that removed the mold having found more mold that also needed to be removed


          or


          gremlins
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      Last night's episode.

      A flurry of activity. The Flip house is behind schedule. They now have a beer brewery that will make them their own brand of beer. He looked at a location, and made a deal. They have a couple of great people to make the barbecue.

      A few things;

      So far, none of these people have been paid a dime, and it should be obvious that he hasn't got any money. Not only are they working on the restaurant idea, but he has his new crew working hard on a home he needs to flip. Either he's just the greatest motivator out there...or something that's happening isn't being shown on the series.
      I have to wonder if these people that have prepared the food are spending their own money? Maybe he reimbursed them.. I would.

      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      About the new location. It's called Jekyll & Hyde It is located on a street corner.

      The owner of the building (and business)is willing to rent the restaurant out for $5,000 a month, including the furniture. Almost a turn key operation.

      But how much profit does a bar/restaurant bring in? Why is he willing to walk away for only $5,000 a month? Before I agreed to a deal (if I were looking to rent), I'd ask about traffic, number of patrons a day, why he's eager to get out, how much business is done, and is the business dying or growing.

      A dead location (no matter how good it looks) tends to stay a dead location. Especially if it's the same kind of business.
      Did a little net surfing and it looks like the pub has good reviews, but they are somewhat old and it appears there was an event scheduled for August 2019 and on the website it now appears to have been cancelled.
      https://www.jekyllandhydeserie.com

      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      As far as I can tell, this guy hasn't made any concrete promises to his crew about compensation...just a general "It will be an adventure to build something great".

      Truthfully, if a guy that was homeless hlast month wanted my help to open a new business, and I'd be compensated later, I still might do it.

      But if he then said "Well, first we have this house I need to renovate and sell because I need that money to open the business...and I need you to help with the renovation", I'd probably walk.

      And that woman that's doing most of the work on the home? That's a lot of work without getting a dime so far.

      I'm still excited about the show, but I wish I knew the whole story.
      If everything fails he could always create a WSO and sell an eBook on how not to do it
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      • Profile picture of the author DWolfe
        Originally Posted by Jeffery View Post

        If everything fails he could always create a WSO and sell an eBook on how not to do it
        Than again he could create a WSO - How to start off with only $100.00 and own your home in a few short weeks. Or - How I washed 2 cars and made out with close to a $10k profit. Real proof as seen on the Discovery Channel !
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      • Profile picture of the author savidge4
        Originally Posted by Jeffery View Post

        If everything fails he could always create a WSO and sell an eBook on how not to do it
        I hate to correct you.. but this is what most WSO's are... well the opposite.. I failed but I am going to share the information anyways.

        Originally Posted by Jeffery View Post

        Did a little net surfing and it looks like the pub has good reviews, but they are somewhat old and it appears there was an event scheduled for August 2019 and on the website it now appears to have been cancelled.
        https://www.jekyllandhydeserie.com
        I wont go as far as to say this is one of the WORST Restaurant websites I have ever seen... but after the fact ( his 90 days are up at this point - even tho we are watching the show now ) and a billionaire behind it - with basically to some extent his name on the line... this would be the Worst website I have ever seen. Typo's everywhere, not a lick of local SEO what so ever.. really no SEO what so ever. THIS is a red flag to failure in todays world - just sayin.

        The guy basically has a TV show acting as a advertising platform for this restaurant he is developing. For giggles if you like, try typing "BBQ Erie PA" in Google or any other assorted string of keywords.. and you find nothing. A touch of searching and I find the Home page is indexed.. and THAT is it - with text about the impossible burger for text below the link ( that in itself is classic )

        And it gets oh so W A Y better.. just when you thought reality TV was just that " Reality "?!?! NOT today http://jekyllandhydeserie.com.cutercounter.com/ Scroll on down to the second to last section " Http Header " and then the first line... he gets dropped on in April or May.. never been there before and all that.. then why was the web URL transferred ( 301 redirected ) to a square space server on January 20th 2019?
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        • Profile picture of the author animal44
          Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

          The guy basically has a TV show acting as a advertising platform for this restaurant he is developing.
          How do you deduce that? The program was made - and the valuation done - 6 months ago (?) How would a TV show broadcast today help with that...?

          Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

          For giggles if you like, try typing "BBQ Erie PA" in Google or any other assorted string of keywords.. and you find nothing.
          Which proves you don't need a website to have a "successful" business...

          * I'm dubious about valuations of businesses. Like everything, they're only worth what someone will pay for it and you only get to know that when the business is sold...
          A small business like this is almost certainly worth much less than 1 million dollars.

          Added:
          To add to this, here is an excellent article on business valuations from a business broker who deals in larger businesses. As always, I don't agree with him 100% on his opinions, however, there's lots of very valuable information regarding selling businesses on his website.

          IMHO makes the valuation soon to be given next to worthless.

          And needless to say, this is one opinion I would totally agree with... :-)

          Bottom Line: Yes, you can get free valuations from brokers, but the large majority of such valuations are pie-in-the-sky figures and can't be relied upon.
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          • Profile picture of the author savidge4
            Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

            How do you deduce that? The program was made - and the valuation done - 6 months ago (?) How would a TV show broadcast today help with that...?
            Really? I don't think the idea was to create a pop up restaurant - I believe the concept was to build a million dollar business or hand over $1,000,000 to get it there.

            The TV show obviously viewed AFTER THE FACT ( DUH ) would / should be used to draw people in from outside the local community to go "Visit" IE spend money in the establishment. Kinda like Diners Drives in and Dives on the Food network. As in would create added value at valuation time.


            Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

            Which proves you don't need a website to have a "successful" business...
            Has proven absolutely nothing at this point... Given that particular market space and looking at the establishment online / compared to its direct competition, It wont make it past the first of the year

            Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

            * I'm dubious about valuations of businesses. Like everything, they're only worth what someone will pay for it and you only get to know that when the business is sold...
            A small business like this is almost certainly worth much less than 1 million dollars.
            This here is the part of all of this that I simply do not understand. you really can not place value on a business that just opened.. other than hard assets; equipment, real estate, Inventory, and furnishings. Generally speaking in the Restaurant industry Grand opening and the weeks that follow, sales SHOULD be elevated.. but they will die down to a level of "normal". The valuation of this facility will be made at this elevated point, I would think a "Buyer" or someone that valuates business' would understand this, so the register at this point would be meaningless.

            The part that many may not understand here is PA has an extremely rich history in micro breweries. Yingling being the model of success started in 1929 and didn't really become a household name outside of a very small region until the early 2000's - today I believe it is the #1 selling craft beer in America - success took like 80 yrs.

            With competition like "The Brewerie", "Churchills", and "Voodoo Brewery" right around the corner basically.. that are ACTUALLY breweries is an uphill battle.

            Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

            Added:
            To add to this, here is an excellent article on business valuations from a business broker who deals in larger businesses. As always, I don't agree with him 100% on his opinions, however, there's lots of very valuable information regarding selling businesses on his website.

            IMHO makes the valuation soon to be given next to worthless.

            And needless to say, this is one opinion I would totally agree with... :-)
            I think like anything you look at comps to determine value. we KNOW your average Outback Steak House grosses about 3.5 million a year and has average operating costs of 60 to 80% . we KNOW your average McDonald's brings in 2.7 Million gross per year with a Operating cost of 80%. So we can at the very least understand what kind of volume and average ticket price is needed to reach these numbers. The part we CANT get, is how much one of these sells for, because they don't - well kinda... The average selling price of a single site established McDonald's FRANCHISE is about $1,000,000.

            Bottom line.. how many restaurant owners do you know that are retired? Its pretty much a crappy business with minimal return. Food and labor cost are absolute animals - more like ferocious beasts really.. and ironically people first getting into "Marketing" where do they go? Right to the business' that get excited they made enough to cover rent this month.

            Until you as a marketer can prove $1.00 spent on ad budget gets X return - this would be the last type of business I would approach. ( speaking of return, the link tyou left was a good read BTW )

            So back to the original statement, a LOT can be said about a business based on its web efforts. It would probably be not much effort to crank foot traffic by focusing on some minor things like being on the short list when someone say "Hey Google, where can I get good BBQ" or "Hey Alexa where can I get draft beer" And how do you get there? you rank your site - LOCALLY and do everything you can to get positive reviews. You get listed on Google maps, You submit to be included in Tom Tom's next update, and a host of other options ( and none of this has been done with this particular restaurant - and its simply foolish )

            what has been proven at this point... the guy is good in the finance / mortgage sector, he should stay there, because he does not understand thing one about running a restaurant.
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

              Bottom line.. how many restaurant owners do you know that are retired? Its pretty much a crappy business with minimal return. Food and labor cost are absolute animals - more like ferocious beasts really.. and ironically people first getting into "Marketing" where do they go? Right to the business' that get excited they made enough to cover rent this month.
              I never understood why someone would open a restaurant. Highest cost equipment, labor intensive, massive breakage (wasted food).

              Although he asked about the former BBQ restaurant, and why it closed...it would be a big warning bell to me if the same kind of restaurant failed at that location.


              Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

              what has been proven at this point... the guy is good in the finance / mortgage sector, he should stay there, because he does not understand thing one about running a restaurant.

              At first, I was wondering why he wouldn't just start the same kind of business. But of course, he would have a huge advantage then. Probably not good TV. And probably not that easy for audiences to understand.


              I saw the episode last night. I would have waited for a second offer on the house. I still can't believe these people are working for him on a promise. They mostly have businesses of their own, that they seem to be ignoring.

              No idea how he's going to get a million dollar valuation out of a new BBQ restaurant/bar.
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              • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                No idea how he's going to get a million dollar valuation out of a new BBQ restaurant/bar.
                I am reserving to answer this for a later date... but I have my speculations. Will be interesting to see if what I believe will throw them over the top is mentioned in the show.
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                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                  Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                  I am reserving to answer this for a later date... but I have my speculations. Will be interesting to see if what I believe will throw them over the top is mentioned in the show.
                  Tellme, tellme, tellme!
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                  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                    Tellme, tellme, tellme!
                    So I am thinking Franchise. You have an LLC.. you then register X amount of Franchise Licenses..we will say 10 of them.. they are each worth $100,000 each.

                    Why I think this.. you have a contractor on the team. You have a guy that builds the Smoker.. you don't have 1 Pit boss, you have 2 One of which has "Credentials", you have a guy that builds furniture, you obviously have someone on the team that deals with real estate. You have a couple of designers graphic and interior to be exact, and a few other players.

                    What would be the value of 10 available franchise opportunities that included real estate, décor design and completion and a smoker? Honestly this would be the only way I could think of that could give a restaurant a valuation of $1,000,000 in 90 days - proof of concept and the ability to deliver hard assets to the franchisees. Looking at available models.. McDonalds again, their #1 money maker as a whole is real estate and not food - just sayin.

                    BUT Now as in present time is 6 months in, and still can not find this Opportunity, so as much as it makes sense, Im not sure it is a reality - but looking at underdog bbq's website and about us.. it seems very clear this is the direction they are headed - maybe just not there yet?
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                • Profile picture of the author DWolfe
                  Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                  I am reserving to answer this for a later date... but I have my speculations. Will be interesting to see if what I believe will throw them over the top is mentioned in the show.
                  He may sell the bbq recipes online, plus sell the bbq sauce to a large food chain. Didn't he mention also something about promoting the craft beers online ?
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                  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                    After reading this I've recorded the shows to date (I think)...some common sense comments and some insight....but some really questionable decisions.


                    Craft beer - pulling together a 'team' - bit didn't first check licensing requirements/time frame in a new city?
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                    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                      Craft beer - pulling together a 'team' - bit didn't first check licensing requirements/time frame in a new city?
                      A real estate mortgage broker starting with $100 and trying to make $1,000,000 in 90 days would be your answer. - and NO ONE on the team appears to have restaurant experience? Didn't really notice this before now, seems kind of odd actually.
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                  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                    I am curious... a question for all. In your eyes what does a $1,000,000 valuation look like? What would have to be in place and what kind of money would have to be changing hands for you to consider a business worth $1,000,000?
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                    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                      Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                      I am curious... a question for all. In your eyes what does a $1,000,000 valuation look like? What would have to be in place and what kind of money would have to be changing hands for you to consider a business worth $1,000,000?
                      Businesses that are Turn Key can sell for a few times annual net income. Or 1.5 times annual gross sales.

                      I don't think the producers on the show are looking for an actual sale price. They may take the first month's earnings, and multiply it by 12 to get an estimate. I'm sure all this was worked out beforehand. But $30,000 in first month's business may do it.

                      What would help is if the restaurant had several websites selling sauces and frozen BBQ (assuming that's possible) online.

                      Originally Posted by craigsposterpro View Post

                      I had the same exact question which I believe is a show blooper. Obviously, he had to apply using his real Billionaire social security number. In the real world, a bank would not give the time of day to someone with no proof of steady income. What did he fill in for employment?
                      If you put 20% down, and just list yourself as self employed, a real estate loan for a home is pretty easy to get. A large down payment like that pretty well guarantees that the bank won't lose money.

                      When we bought our home, my wife was panicking because we had no employer. I just said we were self employed, and put 20% down. There was never a question.

                      And although my wife has a couple of credit cards, we haven't borrowed money for 20 years. I was almost a blank slate.


                      But, because Stearn had to use his real name (I assume), he may have put up a personal guarantee to repay the loan. We don't know what goes on behind the scenes.

                      But I did learn from Wikipedia that "Billionaire Glenn Stearns buys and sells his cars on the show in Chambersburg, PA (which is a 5-hr drive from Erie, PA)." Not exactly cheating, but not revealed on the show.



                      By the way, buy a restaurant after a month's business..in a location where the same business died? For a million dollars? My guess is that nobody actually buys the business. But I wonder if the "Team" ends up being partners as a reward.

                      It's also possible that the producers don't know how to value a business, and are very generous with their valuation.
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                      • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                        But I wonder if the "Team" ends up being partners as a reward.

                        It's also possible that the producers don't know how to value a business, and are very generous with their valuation.
                        And then there is this.. Interestingly enough on the website now a number of months past the valuation, Mr. Stearns name is nowhere to be found. So, for there to be partners there would be a document of incorporation, and with that comes "Shares" and shares would have to have a value. Logic leads one to believe because the premiss of the show is that if Stearns losses he is to invest $1,000,000 into the company - pretty much GUARANTEEING the business is worth $1,000,00 in Liquid assets, at the very least.

                        So the shares, how ever many number of them, are not only given a value but they would be a guaranteed value come the 90 day mark. The financial catch 22 in this scenario.

                        Ever price a smoker? I have yet to see the one they are using, but it cant be small, and I will venture to say the value of THAT alone is 20,000 to $30,000. ( google it yourself large smokers are not cheap - and my number might be low )

                        My self personally being involved in real estate can understand the use of an existing building that was used for the same purpose, less turn around time in the remodeling stage - given the 90 day dead line this makes a bunch of sense really. But honestly With the money in hand and the real estate opening a restaurant 90 days after a closed location deal would be a BEAR at best.

                        The liquor / beer license by itself.. I know for a fact I could not get one in 90 days where I live.. even if I paid up and bought an existing one, im not sure the red tape could be cleared in 90 days. There is simply a ton of legal stuff that has to be done between licensing, and incorporating and not to mention the pile assorted inspections.. 90 days is super tight, but less than 90 I would presume 60 days to having any amount of capital to start from a point of a head start ( facility ) to up and running is a stretch in my mind.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
                    Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                    I am curious... a question for all. In your eyes what does a $1,000,000 valuation look like? What would have to be in place and what kind of money would have to be changing hands for you to consider a business worth $1,000,000?
                    Accounting wise, "unearned income" may be the contributing factor that determines and validates the 1M evaluation. I think we all know that "unearned income" is tricky at best.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
                    Personally, I have never made $1M in 90 days either. I only know one person personally that made $1M in 90 days and I was there every step of the way. How did that person do it? He was in the right place at the right time.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                    Well, I saw last night's episode.

                    They are having a rib cook off. And Underdog BBQ is entering.

                    They have a week to go. The restaurant isn't open or renovated yet.

                    All I can think of is that someone is going to say "Yup, this is worth a million dollars" based on the sales at the cook off.

                    And...there is always the chance that the Undercover Billionaire will lose the bet.

                    I know most people watch for the drama. I just watch to see how he gets things done.I personally hate the drama. The arguments, the little fits of anger.
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                  • Profile picture of the author DWolfe
                    Why does the woman rehabbing the restaurant stick around, she was frustrated with the house. She should of walked than. Now she is being pressured to perform a miracle!

                    Seeing the highlights for next week the woman doing all the cooking walks. It looks stage at this point, she should of been given more help in this weeks episode with delegation. Stern wants here to step up but shouldn't he delegate a little bit more so the cook won't have to much pressure.

                    Did any one notice the lack of drive by traffic the times they show the restaurant ? Wonder how far off the beaten track that location is. It may explain the prior failure there.

                    If they get to 25 k in the BBQ cook out and take the BBQ show on the road for 40 weeks. That would hit the million mark. Or work 2 days every weekend at statewide events and do it in 1/2 that time.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
                    Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                    I consider it a docu-drama at this stage. I still find it interesting and there are things to learn and think about, but I don't consider it real.

                    There are issues other than the ones you mentioned...like did he get the tires from private property? That could be stealing. Didn't he need any type of license to sell at the St Patty's parade? And buying a house with a fake name....then we get into your issues.

                    I'm guessing Glenn started with good intentions then soon realized he set the bar too high...but maybe not.
                    Originally Posted by DWolfe View Post

                    Why does the woman rehabbing the restaurant stick around, she was frustrated with the house. She should of walked than. Now she is being pressured to perform a miracle!

                    Seeing the highlights for next week the woman doing all the cooking walks. It looks stage at this point, she should of been given more help in this weeks episode with delegation. Stern wants here to step up but shouldn't he delegate a little bit more so the cook won't have to much pressure.

                    Did any one notice the lack of drive by traffic the times they show the restaurant ? Wonder how far off the beaten track that location is. It may explain the prior failure there.

                    If they get to 25 k in the BBQ cook out and take the BBQ show on the road for 40 weeks. That would hit the million mark. Or work 2 days every weekend at statewide events and do it in 1/2 that time.
                    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                    My foremost thought is...

                    If he knew he was going to do this, wouldn't he have had a real plan before he started at all? I wouldn't have let anything to chance. For example, I would have figured out the business I was going to build...way before I started.

                    I get that he had to start something that was involved and required several other people...or the series would have been deadly boring to most.

                    Maybe he already planned a BBQ place, where it was going to be, and who he was going to work with. Who knows?
                    He is definitely an experienced business person. A person that is/was a billionaire. He made himself a success going from nothing to something. So he knows a thing or two.

                    He is gaining experience in the T.V. Documentary Industry. I am certain he received a lot of advise from experienced people in the industry.

                    The thing to remember is.. this is a T.V. show and there are many details that do not air for the sake of a successful T.V. show. Claude mentioned that earlier.

                    For all we know he did not break any laws and he could have very well asked the business owner's permission to help himself to the tires. Events like that probably do not make for good T.V. and given a limited air time. Not to be dismissed though there are of time factors.

                    With that said, I am still on the fence about how he financed the home using his fake or real name?


                    He had plenty of time to make a plan and work out the logistics from the concept of the show to going live.
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                    • Profile picture of the author DWolfe
                      Originally Posted by Jeffery View Post

                      With that said, I am still on the fence about how he financed the home using his fake or real name?
                      I would say he got a Home equity line of credit with no problem, if he used his own name. The house is paid in full, he said he is going to use it for repairs. The bank could quickly look what the neighborhood values are see his net worth and credit score = Instant bank loan. It was easy back in 2004 to get a HELOC they have slowly come back since the sub-prime crash a few years ago.

                      Or he could of asked the realtor at the time of purchase if they have any mortgage brokers they work with so he could repair the home.

                      Some of those details don't make for good T.V. but it would be great if he could give a Q&A show sometime in the future.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                      Originally Posted by Jeffery View Post


                      The thing to remember is.. this is a T.V. show and there are many details that do not air for the sake of a successful T.V. show. Claude mentioned that earlier.

                      For all we know he did not break any laws and he could have very well asked the business owner's permission to help himself to the tires. Events like that probably do not make for good T.V. and given a limited air time. Not to be dismissed though there are of time factors.
                      Yes, it's a TV show and some of us believe including essential details for the show's/Glenn's credibility is good TV.

                      Really, all we know now is, we don't know anything. And that's the point. By not telling us these very important details we are left to guessing. Yes, it's one possibility that he asked permission to get the tires. Another is that he trespassed and stole the tires. Or maybe it's something else.

                      We simply don't know and we should. It seems there's more reason to leave out facts that may be negative than if there were positive and by not telling us it lets us pick our own reasons.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                        We simply don't know and we should. It seems there's more reason to leave out facts that may be negative than if there were positive and by not telling us it lets us pick our own reasons.
                        I think we have to remember that we aren't the typical audience. As marketers (or people who think like marketers), we look for these details more than most. Most people tune in for the drama, the fights, the near misses, and the just-in-time successes.

                        We here will tend to see ourselves more in the roll of Stearns. How is he doing it? What's the process? What can we learn from it?

                        Not the way most people think.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                          I think we have to remember that we aren't the typical audience. As marketers (or people who think like marketers), we look for these details more than most. Most people tune in for the drama, the fights, the near misses, and the just-in-time successes.

                          We here will tend to see ourselves more in the roll of Stearns. How is he doing it? What's the process? What can we learn from it?

                          Not the way most people think.
                          I've never forgotten we aren't the "typical" audience. However, your premise makes two other assumptions:

                          "Ordinary" people don't have the same or similar questions.

                          You don't factor in that the audience for the show probably has a higher percentage of viewers that are from our same demographic, business owners and marketers, than the "typical" reality TV show.

                          Edit added later: Actually a third...the assumption that they can't do both, tell how things were done and have drama. It isn't an either/or.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                            Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                            I've never forgotten we aren't the "typical" audience. However, your premise makes two other assumptions:
                            go on.....


                            Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                            "Ordinary" people don't have the same or similar questions.
                            That isn't an assumption, it's experience. Which goes to the next comment.

                            Added later; I strongly suspect that this isn't a very popular show. Sure, marketers would watch it, maybe business owners.....but I have no idea if non sales//business people would find it interesting.


                            Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                            You don't factor in that the audience for the show probably has a higher percentage of viewers that are from our same demographic, business owners and marketers, than the "typical" reality TV show.
                            I agree. I was speaking about a typical Reality Show audience.
                            By the way, agreeing with you made me throw up a little in my mouth.


                            Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                            Edit added later: Actually a third...the assumption that they can't do both, tell how things were done and have drama. It isn't an either/or.
                            That is completely true for some people. But not for most people. And by "most people" I mean most people watching the typical reality show. Possibly not the average viewer of this show, because i don't know the demographics of its viewers.

                            Have you ever been propositioned by a hooker?

                            Most men would think about;
                            1) the price.
                            2) the chances of their wife finding out.
                            3) how they can clam this as an expense of the trip.

                            A real marketer would do what I did, offer her $50 to just tell me how her business worked.

                            See? Not most people.

                            On the other hand, I may be thinking of marketers as pure marketers and not regular people as well. Meaning the average person would react differently than I would, but the average marketer may react the same as most, and less like me.


                            I used to watch Mad Men. But only because I was interested in advertising. The moments where they weren't pitching were mostly boring to me. I suspect most viewers didn't share that view. Maybe even most marketers/salespeople.

                            So...... you may be more right about "normal people" than I am.

                            Another example, I think you are intelligent. I suspect I'm alone in that view.
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                            • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                              go on.....




                              That isn't an assumption, it's experience. Which goes to the next comment.

                              Added later; I strongly suspect that this isn't a very popular show. Sure, marketers would watch it, maybe business owners.....but I have no idea if non sales//business people would find it interesting.




                              I agree. I was speaking about a typical Reality Show audience.
                              By the way, agreeing with you made me throw up a little in my mouth.




                              That is completely true for some people. But not for most people. And by "most people" I mean most people watching the typical reality show. Possibly not the average viewer of this show, because i don't know the demographics of its viewers.

                              Have you ever been propositioned by a hooker?

                              Most men would think about;
                              1) the price.
                              2) the chances of their wife finding out.
                              3) how they can clam this as an expense of the trip.

                              A real marketer would do what I did, offer her $50 to just tell me how her business worked.

                              See? Not most people.

                              On the other hand, I may be thinking of marketers as pure marketers and not regular people as well. Meaning the average person would react differently than I would, but the average marketer may react the same as most, and less like me.


                              I used to watch Mad Men. But only because I was interested in advertising. The moments where they weren't pitching were mostly boring to me. I suspect most viewers didn't share that view.

                              Another example, I think you are intelligent. I suspect I'm alone in that view.
                              #4 Marketers can't think like "typical" people was a faulty assumption. My question about the home mortgage had nothing to do with business. It was from a consumer perspective. I don't want to know how he got the house so I can flip it, I want to know because I thought it was a complicated process. Did he use any trade secrets? Can I walk into a lender and get a mortgage with a fake name too?

                              Or maybe they should use a legal disclaimer about the tires. It's probably not something that is repeatable for everyone. Did he get permission? Where the tires on public property? Does Erie have a law regarding abandoned property? Did he trespass and steal the tires? These are all legit questions that should have been addressed if for no other reason than to prevent people "from doing this at home".
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                              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                                #4 Marketers can't think like "typical" people was a faulty assumption. .
                                Actually, successful marketers can think like typical people, as can great salespeople...as can I....but it's not our default setting.

                                Which leads me to....



                                Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                                My question about the home mortgage had nothing to do with business. It was from a consumer perspective. I don't want to know how he got the house so I can flip it, I want to know because I thought it was a complicated process. Did he use any trade secrets? Can I walk into a lender and get a mortgage with a fake name too?

                                Or maybe they should use a legal disclaimer about the tires. It's probably not something that is repeatable for everyone. Did he get permission? Where the tires on public property? Does Erie have a law regarding abandoned property? Did he trespass and steal the tires? These are all legit questions that should have been addressed if for no other reason than to prevent people "from doing this at home".

                                See? I said
                                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                As marketers (or people who think like marketers),
                                That means you aren't average in your thinking. You think like a high end marketer. Maybe not a high end salesman, but you have that sharp skeptical mind that wants to know how things work.

                                I was going to say "penetrating mind" but I knew better.

                                Added later; I see things from the perspective of a high end salesman. But my default thinking is like an engineer.

                                I see sales as an engineering problem. And you see "from a consumer perspective". But your thinking process isn't like an average consumer. Your thinking is more precise.
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                                • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                  Actually, successful marketers can think like typical people, as can great salespeople...as can I....but it's not our default setting.

                                  Which leads me to....






                                  See? I said


                                  That means you aren't average in your thinking. You think like a high end marketer. Maybe not a high end salesman, but you have that sharp skeptical mind that wants to know how things work.

                                  I was going to say "penetrating mind" but I knew better.

                                  Added later; I see things from the perspective of a high end salesman. But my default thinking is like an engineer.

                                  I see sales as an engineering problem. And you see "from a consumer perspective". But your thinking process isn't like an average consumer. Your thinking is more precise.
                                  Actually, I believe I am thinking more as an engineer than you. Most of my questions are because I want to know if something is repeatable or unique to Glenn...or BS.

                                  It's all a bunch of conjecture for why they left out important details. I can make up just as many potential guesses for why they omitted these details, a big one being these details expose the show as being fake.

                                  I can claim that the show turned out to be a failure in real life, he never got off the street and that everything was staged. Glenn didn't steal or ask permission concerning the tires. He didn't sell them at all, they simply faked it for entertainment purposes because spending all his money on gas before finding any tires worth selling was boring.

                                  I want to believe. I'm the one that started this thread. They just need to give me a reason to believe.
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                            • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
                              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                              <smip>
                              Have you ever been propositioned by a hooker?
                              lol, you know darn well Kurt was a taxi cab driver
                              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                              <smip>
                              Another example, I think you are intelligent. I suspect I'm alone in that view.
                              Taxi cab drivers are the most intelligent people on the the street.
                              Retired taxi cab drivers are the most intelligent people on he planet.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
                    Internet Marketers are obviously not the target market,
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                  • Profile picture of the author umc
                    I had questions about those tires too. In addition to things already mentioned, why did the guy pay him for the tires anyway? They weren't his, and it's not like they gave him some tiny finder's fee. Glenn couldn't do anything with the tires, had no way to transport them or anything. Why not just wait for Glenn to move on and then go pick up the tires yourself since you have what it takes to do so? Why pay him? I could see it if it was a small fee but it was legit $$$ and Glenn had zero leverage.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Jeffery


                    8 Hours Until Air Time Dammit
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                  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                    I stopped watching - got bored. While I admire his ability to keep pushing for ideas - failing to spend a few minutes checking licensing and local laws isn't an efficient way to work.


                    One episode reminded me of a man I knew in Atlanta - big idea guy ...always 'putting teams together' ...those on the teams were usually out time and money in the end.



                    Difference is - the man I knew was persuasive, dynamic, a motivator. This guy doesn't come across that way to me - but maybe it's the pace of the show that seems that way.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                    Well. Here we are. One more episode.

                    The Rib Fest was a success, they won two awards. They raised over $20,000.

                    A little drama...a disgruntled team member..a storm....

                    I'm shocked at how hard these people work on a gamble. How dedicated they are.

                    A lot goes on behind the scenes, I'm sure.

                    The restaurant is even shaping up. Can you open a restaurant...including food, tables, chairs, silverware, renovations...for $20,000? I guess we'll see.

                    I'm surprised there hasn't been a lot of Youtube videos or articles explaining what is going on that we don't know about.

                    Added later; Here's an article that describes some of the behind the scenes, and how the show was set up.

                    https://www.goerie.com/news/20190721...filmed-in-erie
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                    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                      Well. Here we are. One more episode.

                      The Rib Fest was a success, they won two awards. They raised over $20,000.

                      A little drama...a disgruntled team member..a storm....

                      I'm shocked at how hard these people work on a gamble. How dedicated they are.

                      A lot goes on behind the scenes, I'm sure.

                      The restaurant is even shaping up. Can you open a restaurant...including food, tables, chairs, silverware, renovations...for $20,000? I guess we'll see.

                      I'm surprised there hasn't been a lot of Youtube videos or articles explaining what is going on that we don't know about.

                      Added later; Here's an article that describes some of the behind the scenes, and how the show was set up.

                      https://www.goerie.com/news/20190721...filmed-in-erie
                      Very next day send out a press release to all media outlets within 50 miles announcing "Upstart Underdog BBQ's Ribs Are Double Award Winner".
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                      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                        Very next day send out a press release to all media outlets within 50 miles announcing "Upstart Underdog BBQ's Ribs Are Double Award Winner".
                        See? You really do think like a marketer.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                          See? You really do think like a marketer.
                          Often I do. Sometimes I think like a "regular" person like wondering how Glenn got the mortgage. And then there were times when the food made me hungry.

                          In this example, the marketer should either have already had a media contact list or built one. I'm sure they've done some marketing, I wish they would have spent more time on their marketing. This may have been a better series if it was a couple episodes longer.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                            Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                            Often I do. Sometimes I think like a "regular" person like wondering how Glenn got the mortgage. And then there were times when the food made me hungry.

                            In this example, the marketer should either have already had a media contact list or built one. I'm sure they've done some marketing, I wish they would have spent more time on their marketing. This may have been a better series if it was a couple episodes longer.
                            I thought about that. I think that the reason it was down played is because almost nobody would identify with it. Notice how the internet marketing guy is seen only a few times? It isn't exciting. Arguments with staff is exciting. Storms are exciting. At least people can understand what's going on.

                            I don't think I ever asked...do you have any marketing or selling experience? In my entire life, I've only met one person that I thought of as a Natural Born Salesman. And it's extremely unusual to meet someone who knows anything about marketing, without them having real experience in the field.
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                            • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                              Notice how the internet marketing guy is seen only a few times? It isn't exciting. Arguments with staff is exciting. Storms are exciting. At least people can understand what's going on.
                              Put me and that guy in the same room together.. even NOW months after the show, there would be Drama, there would be Excitement, there would be one hell of an argument.
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                            • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                              I thought about that. I think that the reason it was down played is because almost nobody would identify with it. Notice how the internet marketing guy is seen only a few times? It isn't exciting. Arguments with staff is exciting. Storms are exciting. At least people can understand what's going on.

                              I don't think I ever asked...do you have any marketing or selling experience? In my entire life, I've only met one person that I thought of as a Natural Born Salesman. And it's extremely unusual to meet someone who knows anything about marketing, without them having real experience in the field.
                              Let's use Shark Tank as an example. The product intro/demo is all hype and sizzle, which is pretty much for entertainment only. The sharks, being business owner types pretty much only care about the numbers: How much will it cost and how much will it make me?

                              The "drama" in Shark Tank is created with the tension of whether the sharks will make a deal or not and the interactions. This show could tie in cold hard facts with a little tension if they want/need the drama. It isn't either/or.

                              Will this idea work and impress Glenn or will Glenn give them "demerits" for who will run the business after he leaves? It would have been pretty easy to make this into a bit of a competition show too. Can Glenn build a $million business and who'll be the boss after the reveal?
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                    • Profile picture of the author DWolfe
                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


                      The Rib Fest was a success, they won two awards. They raised over $20,000.
                      A lot goes on behind the scenes, I'm sure.

                      The restaurant is even shaping up. Can you open a restaurant...including food, tables, chairs, silverware, renovations...for $20,000? I guess we'll see.
                      Funny he writes the woman a check to buy the tables and chairs. While the BBQ contest is over a long weekend. Not only were they still bringing in money at this point. How would Glenn get to the bank to deposit the cash if the banks were closed? Also how would the check cleared! Must be a lot of information behind the scenes ;>)

                      Now you can even get in on a sweepstakes to get a T-shirt and BBQ sauce from the Discovery Channel - https://www.discovery.com/shows/unde...bq-sweepstakes

                      Thought it was odd to see this early today and the Grand Prize is almost worthless, unless they are trying to get you to sign up for more promotional emails
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                      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                        Well....tonight's the night. The last episode.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
                        Questions.. in the beginning I always thought his goal was to earn $1M in 90 days? Now, the goals is to create a business valued at $1M in 90 days?
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                        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                          Originally Posted by Jeffery View Post

                          Questions.. in the beginning I always thought his goal was to earn $1M in 90 days? Now, the goals is to create a business valued at $1M in 90 days?
                          I understood it as Valued at $1,000,000.00
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                        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                          Originally Posted by Jeffery View Post

                          Questions.. in the beginning I always thought his goal was to earn $1M in 90 days? Now, the goals is to create a business valued at $1M in 90 days?
                          Yeah, it was a business valued at a million. And I'm eager to see how that figure is arrived at. Unless a miracle happens, I just don't see a legitimate valuation.

                          It could be that they let the business grow for a few more months, to set a valuation. We'll see in a few hours.
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                      • Profile picture of the author DWolfe
                        Quoted from a update from the Discovery Channel

                        "Glenn's 90 days are up, and it's time to find out if his business is worth a million dollars; first, Glenn reveals his true identity to his team as well as what each one of them has earned for their part of Underdog BBQ."

                        So new question did they know they were going to get paid going in ? Thought they would get the business at the end of the show ?
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                      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                        I was pleasantly surprised. It wasn't valued at a million dollars, so Stearns invested another million into the restaurant.

                        He gave everyone involved a fair, sometimes generous check for their effort.

                        I was afraid the evaluation judge was going to give some nonsensical reason why this was a million dollar business. But it was kept more real. Still, some of the valuation was based on potential sales, which I find strange.

                        They even showed a scene from 90 days later, a successful thriving business.

                        Good stuff.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                          I was pleasantly surprised. It wasn't valued at a million dollars, so Stearns invested another million into the restaurant.

                          He gave everyone involved a fair, sometimes generous check for their effort.

                          I was afraid the evaluation judge was going to give some nonsensical reason why this was a million dollar business. But it was kept more real. Still, some of the valuation was based on potential sales, which I find strange.

                          They even showed a scene from 90 days later, a successful thriving business.

                          Good stuff.
                          While I'm skeptical about many of the details and that this isn't something "everyone" can duplicate, I do believe that there were a number of good, hard working people that put in an honest effort...and that Glenn worked his ass off.

                          While I think the evaluation was high, it didn't matter. Glenn still had to pay the million he promised.

                          I think the biggest lesson for a lot of folks is that a team of skilled, dependable, dedicated people can do great things. I know a lot of successful marketers that started as teams of individuals dedicated to helping each other.

                          Newbies can do the same as these IMers and Glenn, if they have as Glenn said "No excuses"...and they can provide something of real value to the team.

                          As far as the payments, he gave a couple of them 10% in the company. After the evaluation and his $1 Million, the company is worth $1.75 million. A couple of those folks got an additional $175,000 in instant value/equity on top of their checks.

                          While I don't like drama, I do like feel good stories and there were quite a few in this series that I believe are real.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
                            Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                            <snip>

                            I think the biggest lesson for a lot of folks is that a team of skilled, dependable, dedicated people can do great things. I know a lot of successful marketers that started as teams of individuals dedicated to helping each other.
                             <snip>
                            Likewise. In the past, I have been part of three separate camps of like minded Warriors dedicated to each other and making the business a success. Though it was separate camps of different people we all had one important thing in common that Sterns expressed more than once.. no excuses.


                            I have always said.. surround yourself with like minded people and delegate, delegate, delegate. It is one thing to join a team of dedicated people whereas it is a whole different thing to lead a group of like minded people. Some people are better at taking directions whereas people like Sterns are better at leading the team in a direction.


                            I wonder is there will be a second season? Maybe not Sterns himself.
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                            • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                              Originally Posted by Jeffery View Post

                              Likewise. In the past, I have been part of three separate camps of like minded Warriors dedicated to each other and making the business a success. Though it was separate camps of different people we all had one important thing in common that Sterns expressed more than once.. no excuses.


                              I have always said.. surround yourself with like minded people and delegate, delegate, delegate. It is one thing to join a team of dedicated people whereas it is a whole different thing to lead a group of like minded people. Some people are better at taking directions whereas people like Sterns are better at leading the team in a direction.


                              I wonder is there will be a second season? Maybe not Sterns himself.
                              I think he provided two big assets, leadership/direction and grunt work. He was willing to do the little, dirty back-ache work that needed to be done and I think this was a big part of his ability to lead. When you do more you can ask more.
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                              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                                When you do more you can ask more.
                                I don't remember who told me this, or where I learned it...
                                But if you are asking friends to do grunt work, like moving....you need to be the one working the hardest. And then they won't mind.

                                I saw that in Stearns. Doing the grunt work, alongside the guys. My guess is that after thy found out he was rich, it meant even more to them.

                                I felt sorry for the woman Stearns had to fire. She was a great asset. She just couldn't be counted on to take responsibility when it got harder.

                                I think a few of these guys had the seeds of greatness in them. Not the website guy.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
                        Tax write-offs most likely had a lot to with the money.

                        Plus, to keep the business going it is a good idea to use the most important operational assets to the businesses advantage.. people.
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              • Profile picture of the author DWolfe
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                I saw the episode last night. I would have waited for a second offer on the house. I still can't believe these people are working for him on a promise. They mostly have businesses of their own, that they seem to be ignoring.
                He may of asked the realtor he purchased the property through if they know of any investor that have cash on hand and can complete the deal. He also may not wanted to go spend a lot of time trying to get better offers, because he would loose time else where. Or just for good T.V. just show the one investor only.
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            • Profile picture of the author Kurt
              Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

              Really? I don't think the idea was to create a pop up restaurant - I believe the concept was to build a million dollar business or hand over $1,000,000 to get it there.
              Really? I believe the concept was to build a million dollar business in 90 days. If the show is aired 6 months (180 days) later, that's after the 90 day deadline and would have zero impact an the valuation because the valuation took place before the show aired. You left out the 90 day deadline part.
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              • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                Really? I believe the concept was to build a million dollar business in 90 days. If the show is aired 6 months (180 days) later, that's after the 90 day deadline and would have zero impact an the valuation because the valuation took place before the show aired. You left out the 90 day deadline part.
                TV show or not.. planning 90 days out with a dead end goal is foolish business. And more to the point.. we are outside the 90 days and looking at the site with basically a free 60 minute commercial running once a week for 8 weeks, and these things still are not done. again Foolish business.

                If you REALLY get down and dirty with the website issues, uh a working ( proven working ) advertising model would actually INCREASE valuation - so they obviously failed on that as well.

                A website, social media etc etc ARE considered ASSETS, when they are proven to produce results IE customers.
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        • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
          Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

          I hate to correct you.. but this is what most WSO's are... well the opposite.. I failed but I am going to share the information anyways.
          It was an odyssey joke. Not a good one?

          Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

          I wont go as far as to say this is one of the WORST Restaurant websites I have ever seen... but after the fact ( his 90 days are up at this point - even tho we are watching the show now ) and a billionaire behind it - with basically to some extent his name on the line... this would be the Worst website I have ever seen. Typo's everywhere, not a lick of local SEO what so ever.. really no SEO what so ever. THIS is a red flag to failure in todays world - just sayin.

          The guy basically has a TV show acting as a advertising platform for this restaurant he is developing. For giggles if you like, try typing "BBQ Erie PA" in Google or any other assorted string of keywords.. and you find nothing. A touch of searching and I find the Home page is indexed.. and THAT is it - with text about the impossible burger for text below the link ( that in itself is classic )

          And it gets oh so W A Y better.. just when you thought reality TV was just that " Reality "?!?! NOT today Jekyllandhydeserie / Jekyll &amp; Hydes Gastropub Scroll on down to the second to last section " Http Header " and then the first line... he gets dropped on in April or May.. never been there before and all that.. then why was the web URL transferred ( 301 redirected ) to a square space server on January 20th 2019?
          WARNING
          Spoiler Alert

          This is the new restaurant..
          Underdog BBQ
          CutterCounter Info


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          • Profile picture of the author DWolfe
            Why do people always feel the need to post a spoiler alert ? Why not let us enjoy the show for what it is worth, and let us be surprised at the end of the show.
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            • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
              Originally Posted by DWolfe View Post

              Why do people always feel the need to post a spoiler alert ? Why not let us enjoy the show for what it is worth, and let us be surprised at the end of the show.

              So I guess I shouldn't post who is going to win the2020 election?
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by DWolfe View Post

              Why do people always feel the need to post a spoiler alert ? Why not let us enjoy the show for what it is worth, and let us be surprised at the end of the show.
              I'm the kind of person that wants to know the whole story. I read Wikipedia plots for movies, before i see the movie. I can still completely enjoy the movie.

              But I don't tell my wife what's going to happen.

              For the Undercover Billionaire? I find the journey fascinating. It doesn't matter if I know how it ends.

              It takes me back to when i was just beginning. No money, no knowledge, everything was a gamble. The monumental wastes of money, the huge losses of time on dead ends. Barely being able to make payroll.

              For whatever reason, this show has rekindled a small fire in my belly that I thought I had lost.

              I'm so close to retirement that I can read the fine print. But I have one more fight in me. I'm glad I discovered it.


              For whatever reason, this show has rekindled a small fire in my belly that I thought I had lost.

              I'm so close to retirement that I can read the fine print. But I have one more fight in me. I'm glad I discovered it.
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    • Profile picture of the author umc
      Imagine that, in the last episode he just so happened to be talking on the phone to his realtor about how he was looking for a commercial property. Ohhhhhh............ maybeeee....... a place like, let's say totally randomly, the Jekyll and Hyde place. I mean, if he was looking for a place some place like that on a sweet sweet corner in the busiest intersection in town would be so nice. Whaaaaaat? It just so happens the owner is willing to potentially sell out? You don't say.

      This show is so clearly staged in so many ways. New guy finds cars with insane margins and just happens to find real estate he wants that is available while sitting in front of it and people that love him enough to work their asses off for free for some nobody that comes in with a camera crew and a poorly articulated dream and completely unoriginal ideas. Totally believable. He truly is the "everyman".
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    • Profile picture of the author DWolfe
      Originally Posted by Jeffery View Post

      So I guess I shouldn't post who is going to win the2020 election?
      Who cares at the end of the election who ever wins will raise taxes anyway ;>)

      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      I

      For whatever reason, this show has rekindled a small fire in my belly that I thought I had lost.

      I'm so close to retirement that I can read the fine print. But I have one more fight in me. I'm glad I discovered it.
      Interesting how one show has done this. It has been a good learning experience so far. Looking forward to how it turns out and how he gets out of the house problems.
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    • Profile picture of the author craigsposterpro
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      My big question is how did he get approved for the home loan using a fake name? Don't banks do any kind of background check?
      I had the same exact question which I believe is a show blooper. Obviously, he had to apply using his real Billionaire social security number. In the real world, a bank would not give the time of day to someone with no proof of steady income. What did he fill in for employment?
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  • Profile picture of the author umc
    I've got to say that I am an episode behind, I think, just watching the one where he gets people to join him for Underdog BBQ. There's something about him and the show I just can't connect to. He's not got much personality from what I can see, he's not someone that I honestly particularly like though I like his personal story. The show seems too produced or something, it just feels off to me. I like the lessons but I honestly find it hard to believe that these people are following some rando without any money and with a meh idea that isn't really unique. He doesn't seem to have much personality and isn't the type I'd normally think of people rallying around.

    I still can't believe he got the cars at the price he did. At the end of the episode I just watched he had just bought the flip house. The first person he goes to is a designer, which seems weird. I'm watching a business meeting that the guy who's leading the beer side is leading and in the middle of it they're talking about his flip house in with everything else. I get that it's supposed to be money for the business but there's not much spread on it and it's just weird to see that in the middle of the rest. It feels convoluted. I'm a skeptic that the average person without a production crew could be dropped in a depressed area and find such solidarity and cooperation with so little to bring to the table.

    I do see lessons. Networking is good, though people may be more willing to help if you're on camera. You don't have to be charismatic or eloquent apparently to get people on your side, though again I think the camera helps. Cast many lines and get involved in bigger games. Many people wouldn't be willing to take risks like he is, though of course he gets to go home and be a billionaire at the end of this so there isn't really a ton of risk. You don't have to have a unique idea whatsoever to potentially have a winner, I guess. I really like how he sees what others might bring to the table and gets the best out of those people. I think many of us that have been lone rangers struggle with delegation and he's all about that in everything he does. That's probably the biggest lesson I've taken from it. I see the lessons, but I also see this as a "reality" tv show that isn't necessarily an accurate reflection of reality.
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  • Profile picture of the author DURABLEOILCOM
    Does anybody else feel like the entire show is staged?
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    • Profile picture of the author animal44
      Originally Posted by DURABLEOILCOM View Post

      Does anybody else feel like the entire show is staged?
      Of course it is.
      Everyone on the show would have been approached beforehand and interviewed and selected to ensure a good fit and entertainment value.

      Added: Here's a link to an article on the making of the series:
      https://www.apnews.com/6882e90dd46f4caf823887bc18ef512a
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
    The home realtor sold him the house for something like $20K less than the asking price (can't remember the exact figure) and I am sure the house has been on the market for long time. Otherwise, the owner would not have sold it at that price?


    How does he expect to resell it for $80K to $90K when the realtors could not sell it for $40K?
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Jeffery View Post

      The home realtor sold him the house for something like $20K less than the asking price (can't remember the exact figure) and I am sure the house has been on the market for long time. Otherwise, the owner would not have sold it at that price?


      How does he expect to resell it for $80K to $90K when the realtors could not sell it for $40K?
      My guess is that this was a home that the owner had to sell. Maybe a dead relative, no idea. And since nobody was taking care of the home at the time, it means there wasn't a real effort to get a good price.

      With cosmetics, homes were selling for $80-$90,000 in the area. What amazed me was that he paid such a low price. I don't know if it's a state law, but wouldn't a home inspector find the mold? I don't think his offer was that much lower than asking price, but I only saw it once, so I could be wrong.

      This is why I always avoided investing in real estate. You never know what bottomless pit you are getting into.

      He could have made real headway if he had found more car deals like he did. But there probably wasn't another car dealer who had an idiot son selling the last two cars on the lot. He wouldn't have got that deal at an auction, I'm sure.
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      • Profile picture of the author StevenTylerPjs
        I'm in real estate inspections actually... to me it looked like a pipe burst causing the hardwood floor to buckle underneath the carpet. An inspector wouldn't have pulled the carpet off like that to see the mold, but would have noticed damaged or leaky pipes. At this price and condition, this house was likely a foreclosure or an estate that was in foreclosure. It was probably bought as-is, and he probably didn't get an inspection done considering he closed in ten days. He was more worried about meeting his deadlines that jumping through hoops or waiting for inspectors.

        I would like to know the specific loan he received. That's extremely low for a bank to loan on. And in order to get additional funds to complete repairs, typically a contractor approved by the lender, has to come out and give a written bid on the work needing to be done. He did mention that since he's in the lending business, he does know about programs that will find projects like this. I just wish he would have said what the program or loan actually was.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    While I have an issue with getting a home loan using a fake name, there are probably some legit ways he pulled this off. I just wish they would have shared them.

    Watching the show, I often fall into a trap of wishing he'd would have done this or that, thinking the show is a tutorial on how to get rich. It isn't. It's about a guy getting up in years meeting a personal challenge and we're just along for the ride. His goal isn't to teach us how to do things...so I have no problem with him using any special knowledge he has.

    I would like to see more similar shows where entrepreneurs build businesses from nothing and not just using their wealth to invest in existing businesses. Maybe have him/her guide young high school graduates in poor neighborhoods or recent grads from community college/trade schools or take a small group of homeless people and get them on their feet.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      While I have an issue with getting a home loan using a fake name, there are probably some legit ways he pulled this off. I just wish they would have shared them.

      Me too.

      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      Watching the show, I often fall into a trap of wishing he'd would have done this or that, thinking the show is a tutorial on how to get rich. It isn't. It's about a guy getting up in years meeting a personal challenge and we're just along for the ride. His goal isn't to teach us how to do things...so I have no problem with him using any special knowledge he has.

      I would like to see more similar shows where entrepreneurs build businesses from nothing and not just using their wealth to invest in existing businesses. Maybe have him/her guide young high school graduates in poor neighborhoods or recent grads from community college/trade schools or take a small group of homeless people and get them on their feet.
      Once in a while,a few members here have stated they were homeless at one time and got back on their feet. I applaud them. Over the past two years my family and I have worked with a few homeless families for their betterment. It is not easy. They have to seriously want it and seriously put their hearts into it.


      At the end of the day, there is always another person(s) in need..
      So many - so little time.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by Jeffery View Post

        Me too.


        Once in a while,a few members here have stated they were homeless at one time and got back on their feet. I applaud them. Over the past two years my family and I have worked with a few homeless families for their betterment. It is not easy. They have to seriously want it and seriously put their hearts into it.


        At the end of the day, there is always another person(s) in need..
        So many - so little time.
        It's very hard to get out of being homeless and almost impossible without help. Having a cell phone and pickup truck is a HUGE advantage. About the only thing Glenn could have done at the beginning of the show without a vehicle and cell phone was get a free meal at the soup kitchen.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          It's very hard to get out of being homeless and almost impossible without help. Having a cell phone and pickup truck is a HUGE advantage. About the only thing Glenn could have done at the beginning of the show without a vehicle and cell phone was get a free meal at the soup kitchen.
          Similar to what I was going to say.

          Being homeless is far worse than being broke. And having just a little money (let's say $100) is a huge step up from having absolutely no money at all.

          Having a phone and a vehicle at least gives you options. Having an apartment (even a one room efficiency) means you can get a good night's sleep, take a shower, cook a cheap meal.

          I think it would be much harder...take longer...to go from completely broke and homeless to having a phone, a truck, and $100 in cash....than what this guy (the Undercover Billionaire) is doing, taking his $100 and turning it into a million dollar business.

          When you are completely broke, and homeless, your survival takes up all your concentration. You have no momentum to build on.

          I met a man from India that, when he first came to America...barely being able to speak the language...with nothing..

          He told me how he would go to a restaurant and order a bowl of hot water, use ketchup and crackers to make soup.....living in an old woman's basement, doing chores for the rent (he said it wasn't a finished room, it was really dirty).

          He somehow got a job selling vacuum cleaners. He had no vehicle, so he walked everywhere with the vacuum in his hand. Ten years later he was a millionaire.

          I asked him what the hardest part was. He told me that the hardest part was right at the beginning. Once he made a few sales, he could ride a bicycle (yes, he sold vacuums by riding a bike door to door). And he had some money for real food, and no longer had to completely depend on charity. He said that after the first thousand dollars or so, it was just continuing the momentum, and was relatively easy.
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          • Profile picture of the author Kurt
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            Similar to what I was going to say.

            Being homeless is far worse than being broke. And having just a little money (let's say $100) is a huge step up from having absolutely no money at all.

            Having a phone and a vehicle at least gives you options. Having an apartment (even a one room efficiency) means you can get a good night's sleep, take a shower, cook a cheap meal.

            I think it would be much harder...take longer...to go from completely broke and homeless to having a phone, a truck, and $100 in cash....than what this guy (the Undercover Billionaire) is doing, taking his $100 and turning it into a million dollar business.

            When you are completely broke, and homeless, your survival takes up all your concentration. You have no momentum to build on.

            I met a man from India that, when he first came to America...barely being able to speak the language...with nothing..

            He told me how he would go to a restaurant and order a bowl of hot water, use ketchup and crackers to make soup.....living in an old woman's basement, doing chores for the rent (he said it wasn't a finished room, it was really dirty).

            He somehow got a job selling vacuum cleaners. He had no vehicle, so he walked everywhere with the vacuum in his hand. Ten years later he was a millionaire.

            I asked him what the hardest part was. He told me that the hardest part was right at the beginning. Once he made a few sales, he could ride a bicycle (yes, he sold vacuums by riding a bike door to door). And he had some money for real food, and no longer had to completely depend on charity. He said that after the first thousand dollars or so, it was just continuing the momentum, and was relatively easy.

            I strongly agree with you and the guy you met. The hardest part is that very first step when you really have nothing. You can't get a job because you can't wait 3 weeks to get paid to eat.

            I have an old pickup with a shell on it and every time I open the back up to load groceries or whatever, I think to the earlier times in my life that would have been a palace. Totally blocks the wind, rain and snow, can store my things in it and I feel pretty secure back there when I have slept there during road trips.

            And it's mobile. I've often thought about the really small tiny homes being built for the homeless. I would like to see them convert old pickups by building caps and turning vans to shelters.

            IMO, letting them become mobile would be a huge boost in getting them back on their feet. This is where someone like Glenn could really help. Work with local auto body and mechanic schools and come up with a plan for Glenn's folks to pay for their trucks/vans.

            Get them a place to park that has the basics like bathrooms, microwaves, ice machine, etc. Maybe do some type of green energy deal to provide energy they can use when parked.

            I really think being able to own their vehicle by earning it in some way is what many need. They have an asset they own, they are mobile and have their most basic needs meet. Just giving people a tiny home is good and a big help, but it doesn't help them get out of their situation enough.
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

              I strongly agree with you and the guy you met. The hardest part is that very first step when you really have nothing. You can't get a job because you can't wait 3 weeks to get paid to eat.

              I have an old pickup with a shell on it and every time I open the back up to load groceries or whatever, I think to the earlier times in my life that would have been a palace. Totally blocks the wind, rain and snow, can store my things in it and I feel pretty secure back there when I have slept there during road trips.

              And it's mobile. I've often thought about the really small tiny homes being built for the homeless. I would like to see them convert old pickups by building caps and turning vans to shelters.

              IMO, letting them become mobile would be a huge boost in getting them back on their feet. This is where someone like Glenn could really help. Work with local auto body and mechanic schools and come up with a plan for Glenn's folks to pay for their trucks/vans.

              Get them a place to park that has the basics like bathrooms, microwaves, ice machine, etc. Maybe do some type of green energy deal to provide energy they can use when parked.

              I really think being able to own their vehicle by earning it in some way is what many need. They have an asset they own, they are mobile and have their most basic needs meet. Just giving people a tiny home is good and a big help, but it doesn't help them get out of their situation enough.
              I once was talking to a head person at the local Salvation army. I asked her about services. She told me that as long as the person passed a drug test, they could stay at the facility (beds, storage, and showers) for 6 months. They just had to look for work. I think they needed to apply at least twice a week locally. Meals were provided by several local shelters.

              In my opinion, a person...with absolutely nothing, could stay in a place like that for six months, and earn enough (at a local low paying job) to buy a cheap car and get a room, or a small apartment. They would be on their way.
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              • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                I once was talking to a head person at the local Salvation army. I asked her about services. She told me that as long as the person passed a drug test, they could stay at the facility (beds, storage, and showers) for 6 months. They just had to look for work. I think they needed to apply at least twice a week locally. Meals were provided by several local shelters.

                In my opinion, a person...with absolutely nothing, could stay in a place like that for six months, and earn enough (at a local low paying job) to buy a cheap car and get a room, or a small apartment. They would be on their way.
                How many other people are sleeping in the same room? What time do the doors close? Can I come and go? Do they preach to me? If I miss meal time because I'm taking a bus home from work, can I still eat?

                While I'm sure they do good work and are appreciated by many, there's a few reasons why many homeless people would rather sleep under a bridge than in a shelter.
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                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                  Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                  How many other people are sleeping in the same room? What time do the doors close? Can I come and go? Do they preach to me? If I miss meal time because I'm taking a bus home from work, can I still eat?

                  While I'm sure they do good work and are appreciated by many, there's a few reasons why many homeless people would rather sleep under a bridge than in a shelter.
                  I don't know most of the answers here. I'm assuming that if a church is feeding you, you'll be preached to. Maybe not.

                  At the Salvation Army, I think you can come and go, but you have to be back at a certain time (I think). No idea how many sleep to a room, but I don't think you get a private room.

                  I don't think the Salvation Army feeds you. I think you have to be fed outside, at some charity.

                  My thought about people that would rather sleep under a bridge?

                  Many homeless are either schizophrenic or drug users. If you're a drug user, the Salvation Army won't help you. And if you are unwell mentally, they probably won't let you stay.

                  My brother was schizophrenic, and lived outside most of his adult life. It just didn't bother him at all. My Mom would set up an apartment for him, and he'd just leave to live in the woods. He was more violent as he got older, and kept burning his bridges when people tried to help.

                  Of course all homeless people aren't drug users or mentally unwell. But I haven't talked to any homeless people to get answers.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Giving it some thought over the past few weeks, I think my first plan would have been to see if there's Uber in Erie and specifically if they have the car rental thing available. If I could rent a car through Uber, I'd sell the dually, then drive the Uber.

    Uber would let me have a vehicle and earn money when I wasn't working on the side hustles and gives me quick cash flow. Selling the dually would give me money to set me up in an apt and feed me and GPS would make driving in an unknown town a snap.

    I would use Uber to also make connections...in theory. In reality I'd start online stuff and use Uber as a base. I can do a lot of online stuff on a smart phone while sitting in a car waiting for my next ride. Erie may not have Uber or if they do, they may no have the rental car program. But also in reality, I can use the dually to move to another city that does.
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  • Profile picture of the author misterme
    So, basically, it's about a guy from another, better, place where he's enjoyed an exalted life, who's plopped down into a sort of a downtrodden spot, living in poverty. He appears the same as the people around him (perhaps even more downtrodden than the people around him) but he's not like the others, he has certain abilities, knowledge and wisdom, but they don't realize it as his real identity hasn't yet been revealed. He goes on a grand mission, spouting his principles and beliefs to us, and along the way, recruits a handful of others who believe in him, giving up their time to follow him and freely assist him in his work.

    Where have I heard this story before?
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeffery


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  • Profile picture of the author animal44
    Are there any circumstances where you'd buy a 90 day old business for a million dollars...?
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

      Are there any circumstances where you'd buy a 90 day old business for a million dollars...?
      It has been known to happen in the tech world in recent years, even before the proof of concept stage because the idea was simply that good... but I would say that is far from regular. But a brick and mortar type business.. not a chance in middle earth would this happen.

      But keep in mind the idea is to have a business valued at $1,000,000 and not sold for $1,000,000 and that in itself is 2 worlds apart.
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  • Profile picture of the author misterme
    To evaluate the business (in terms of the show's bet) how much more can they calculate right away other than to project sales? Leaving aside online sales and product line sold in grocery stores, if they show they have the capability to turnover 50 meals a day, 7 days a week at a $55 average ticket... congratulations, that's $1M in annual sales.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
      Originally Posted by misterme View Post

      To evaluate the business (in terms of the show's bet) how much more can they calculate right away other than to project sales? Leaving aside online sales and product line sold in grocery stores, if they show they have the capability to turnover 50 meals a day, 7 days a week at a $55 average ticket... congratulations, that's $1M in annual sales.

      Yep, in that case, accounting wise it is "unearned income."
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    I'v never built a million dollar business, let alone in 90 days, so I don't feel highly qualified to give advice. But after giving this some thought, I think if I had to build a million dollar business in 90 days or less, I'd probably try to come up with an app. You can eliminate much of the overhead needed for a brick and mortar business and skip a couple of steps.

    The $1 million and 90 day goal also skews some sound business ideas. Without the bet, Glenn using his finance skills and teaming up with the gal who redoes the buildings to flip real estate seems like a winner. They probably wouldn't reach $1 million in 90 days, but I doubt it would take them decades either.

    I understand Glenn went to a local biz office for research, but I also have questions about a restaurant, especially the same kind in a location that failed before.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      I've never built a million dollar business, let alone in 90 days, so I don't feel highly qualified to give advice. But after giving this some thought, I think if I had to build a million dollar business in 90 days or less, I'd probably try to come up with an app. You can eliminate much of the overhead needed for a brick and mortar business and skip a couple of steps.
      I cant say I have ever developed a business that would be valued at $1,000,000 in 90 days. I have had business that grossed $100,000 in 90 days but would not consider them at that point worth $1,000,000. 2 years later.. that's a different story, and I would estimate the worth to exceed the $1,000,000 mark - but that would be a totally different show.

      The moment you say $1,000,000 in 90 days.. I honestly can not think of a brick and mortar business that I think I could get there - UNLESS it was a business that played well with supply and demand. Auto Parts store fits the criteria for this. Your car breaks down you can buy the part online for less but wait 4 days to get it, OR you can pay more and goto the local parts store and have it fixed this afternoon.

      My mind went to selling online - like instantly. An app is actually a pretty good idea. I went and grabbed this link to show it basically has been done: https://www.secretentourage.com/entr...g-over-100000/

      That being said, that caliber of app is probably longer than 90 days in the making, and the budget to get it paid for and released would possibly be astounding. BUT for the sake of TV an online business is not what your average American idealizes as being local first - as in jobs etc. When I personally tell people I have a total of 16 people on staff, they are simply astounded - but McDonalds locally employees a total of 45 people.

      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      The $1 million and 90 day goal also skews some sound business ideas. Without the bet, Glenn using his finance skills and teaming up with the gal who redoes the buildings to flip real estate seems like a winner. They probably wouldn't reach $1 million in 90 days, but I doubt it would take them decades either.
      Without question the time frame is a game changer.. a dry cleaning business would not get valued at $1,000,000 in 90 days. A Convenience store I don't see getting valued for $1,000,000 in 90 days. A car wash or a window cleaning service - I can only think that even Glen Stearns himself with Stearns Lending probably did not reach this lofty goal in 90 days.

      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      I understand Glenn went to a local biz office for research, but I also have questions about a restaurant, especially the same kind in a location that failed before.
      This right here.. this is a tough one. I think psychologically, you want to think the last owners were morons and you can do better. Based on what little research I did on the location it actually looks pretty decent. In terms of real estate the guy obviously understands a little bit at least... where to place a business that might be a different story.

      The BIGGEST factor I can assume in this specific location choice, was without question based on the time frame ( 90 days ). Restaurants have their nuances in terms of meeting code. the walls have to be tile or water proof there has to be ventilation. wash sinks prep sinks and hand sinks Gas here 220 electric there etc etc etc - and this particular building ALL of that would be in place. The construction cost savings alone is probably an easy $50,000. Making that location the right choice given the 90 day limit - it was basically move in ready.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        I cant say I have ever developed a business that would be valued at $1,000,000 in 90 days. I have had business that grossed $100,000 in 90 days but would not consider them at that point worth $1,000,000. 2 years later.. that's a different story, and I would estimate the worth to exceed the $1,000,000 mark - but that would be a totally different show.

        The moment you say $1,000,000 in 90 days.. I honestly can not think of a brick and mortar business that I think I could get there - UNLESS it was a business that played well with supply and demand. Auto Parts store fits the criteria for this. Your car breaks down you can buy the part online for less but wait 4 days to get it, OR you can pay more and goto the local parts store and have it fixed this afternoon.

        My mind went to selling online - like instantly. An app is actually a pretty good idea. I went and grabbed this link to show it basically has been done: https://www.secretentourage.com/entr...g-over-100000/

        That being said, that caliber of app is probably longer than 90 days in the making, and the budget to get it paid for and released would possibly be astounding. BUT for the sake of TV an online business is not what your average American idealizes as being local first - as in jobs etc. When I personally tell people I have a total of 16 people on staff, they are simply astounded - but McDonalds locally employees a total of 45 people.



        Without question the time frame is a game changer.. a dry cleaning business would not get valued at $1,000,000 in 90 days. A Convenience store I don't see getting valued for $1,000,000 in 90 days. A car wash or a window cleaning service - I can only think that even Glen Stearns himself with Stearns Lending probably did not reach this lofty goal in 90 days.



        This right here.. this is a tough one. I think psychologically, you want to think the last owners were morons and you can do better. Based on what little research I did on the location it actually looks pretty decent. In terms of real estate the guy obviously understands a little bit at least... where to place a business that might be a different story.

        The BIGGEST factor I can assume in this specific location choice, was without question based on the time frame ( 90 days ). Restaurants have their nuances in terms of meeting code. the walls have to be tile or water proof there has to be ventilation. wash sinks prep sinks and hand sinks Gas here 220 electric there etc etc etc - and this particular building ALL of that would be in place. The construction cost savings alone is probably an easy $50,000. Making that location the right choice given the 90 day limit - it was basically move in ready.
        I agree. It was probably the best decision based on the time limitation, but probably not the best business decision otherwise.

        I'm still going with an app as the best bet and the best bet is still a long shot. It would seem Glenn could come up with something in the mortgage/finance industry that has some potential. Another limitation of the bet is he has to build a business in Erie, so I'm not sure how this would factor in...

        I think the biggest takeaway from the latest episode is, there's a lot of hard work in starting a business and work ethic and determination is probably a bigger factor than any great "secret" ideas.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          I think the biggest takeaway from the latest episode is, there's a lot of hard work in starting a business and work ethic and determination is probably a bigger factor than any great "secret" ideas.
          There are other factors, knowledge of strategies, intelligence, ability to drop unprofitable attempts, personal energy.....

          But I agree that work ethic, and determination are the single most important factors.

          The problem with "secret' ideas is that they still require real work, determination, intelligence, and the ability to let short term failures roll off your back.

          In my entire life selling, my single biggest advantage was I didn't care if I was rejected.

          For most people, a few "Nos" is enough for them to give up completely. And even small business start ups...a few setbacks (that later would just be part of the daily routine) is enough to make someone give up.

          It's because many of these people are dreamers. And anything short of instant riches destroys that dream....of instant riches.
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  • Profile picture of the author umc
    I've enjoyed the last two episodes a bit more because of the fits of anger or whatever. Those feelings are at least real. A lot of the previous stuff seemed so staged. Glenn even seems a bit more like a human being to me. I can connect with that more than magic deals that seem extremely set up, and my guess is that he ends up getting the valuation just like most people here value their WSOs. It's worth a million dollars but I'd sell it to you today for $7.97.

    Anyway, the thing I took from the last episode was what he told the lady that's doing the design work when she questioned his lack of forethought. He said that if he thought too far ahead he'd never go for it. It's not earth shattering or new but it was cool to see it expressed. Too many people get lost in the details and never actually start anything because they're too busy planning and never actually do anything. That's like what a lot of people do with courses and such that they buy online.

    It's nice to see some reality on this supposed reality show. Even if he loses he just has to put a million of his own money into the business that he believes in and that's nothing for a billionaire.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by umc View Post

      I've enjoyed the last two episodes a bit more because of the fits of anger or whatever. Those feelings are at least real.
      I understand why you say that. But I think reality shows really ask for heightened emotional responses.What I don't know is...how much are the rest of the "cast" being coached...and how much are they giving responses and actions that they would normally give.

      These guys rehabbed a house..without pay?
      So far, they have ignored their businesses to work with Stern?
      The cars and the house sell right away? Sure, the house was sold to an investor, probably known to the realtor...but I've never experienced such lucky timing myself.

      And.....a restaurant? I can't imagine a harder thing to make work, on a very limited budget. The inspectors, the renovations, the expense. Food inventory, employees.

      They better sell a ton of ribs next week.

      I think my response to this series is the opposite of yours. I was totally on board at the beginning, and am less so now. Although I'll see it to the end. Two more weeks.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        I understand why you say that. But I think reality shows really ask for heightened emotional responses.What I don't know is...how much are the rest of the "cast" being coached...and how much are they giving responses and actions that they would normally give.

        These guys rehabbed a house..without pay?
        So far, they have ignored their businesses to work with Stern?
        The cars and the house sell right away? Sure, the house was sold to an investor, probably known to the realtor...but I've never experienced such lucky timing myself.

        And.....a restaurant? I can't imagine a harder thing to make work, on a very limited budget. The inspectors, the renovations, the expense. Food inventory, employees.

        They better sell a ton of ribs next week.

        I think my response to this series is the opposite of yours. I was totally on board at the beginning, and am less so now. Although I'll see it to the end. Two more weeks.
        I consider it a docu-drama at this stage. I still find it interesting and there are things to learn and think about, but I don't consider it real.

        There are issues other than the ones you mentioned...like did he get the tires from private property? That could be stealing. Didn't he need any type of license to sell at the St Patty's parade? And buying a house with a fake name....then we get into your issues.

        I'm guessing Glenn started with good intentions then soon realized he set the bar too high...but maybe not.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          I consider it a docu-drama at this stage. I still find it interesting and there are things to learn and think about, but I don't consider it real.

          There are issues other than the ones you mentioned...like did he get the tires from private property? That could be stealing. Didn't he need any type of license to sell at the St Patty's parade? And buying a house with a fake name....then we get into your issues.

          I'm guessing Glenn started with good intentions then soon realized he set the bar too high...but maybe not.
          My foremost thought is...

          If he knew he was going to do this, wouldn't he have had a real plan before he started at all? I wouldn't have let anything to chance. For example, I would have figured out the business I was going to build...way before I started.

          I get that he had to start something that was involved and required several other people...or the series would have been deadly boring to most.

          Maybe he already planned a BBQ place, where it was going to be, and who he was going to work with. Who knows?
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          • Profile picture of the author Kurt
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            My foremost thought is...

            If he knew he was going to do this, wouldn't he have had a real plan before he started at all? I wouldn't have let anything to chance. For example, I would have figured out the business I was going to build...way before I started.

            I get that he had to start something that was involved and required several other people...or the series would have been deadly boring to most.

            Maybe he already planned a BBQ place, where it was going to be, and who he was going to work with. Who knows?
            I'm sure he thought about it before hand and it seems his first thought was for a coffee shop, but he went to the Chamber of Commerce(?) and their research showed a microbrewery was better for Erie.


            His issue is the 90 day limit. I believe this is what he misjudged, not whether he should have a microbrewery or not. But there are too many variables involving other people to have any kind of plan that doesn't leave things to chance.
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  • Profile picture of the author misterme
    As of 9/10/19's episode, Stearn said this one thing... about the upcoming rib fest, that their showing in that festival is important when it comes to evaluate the business. So I guess that means the business evaluator will be looking at demand from the rib fest crowd as a factor and extrapolating it out.

    One thing I know about restaurants is that they usually enjoy a high attendance when they first open but that fades after a few months.

    This isn't going to be a valid evaluation, it's just to suffice for the show's bet.

    In that episode what I found really telling, when you wonder why the participants are more than cooperative for no pay, even springing out of pocket to subsidize the cause, you have the iron worker who finds out that Glenn's a billionaire and is infuriated at the ruse. Says he'd normally walk away... but... is giving Glenn the chance to explain.

    That seems like a nice guy giving Glenn the opportunity to explain himself sort of thing to do but really, if he'd otherwise normally walk away then why ask to hear more from the guy who's fooled you in this instance, hmmm?

    I'd suggest it's exactly because he knows Glenn's got gobs of money, the iron worker himself is in for a pound, they know this is going to be on TV... he was so quick to stick around despite being pissed off and I think that's why.
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  • Profile picture of the author misterme
    Another show I'm watching and recommend is fictitious but somewhat based on Rupert Murdoch, his family and media empire, HBO's "Succession." It's a dark comedy. It's great. Love the lines and tactics they come up with.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    It seems to me that the only way to create $1 million in value at this point is to have some type of franchising or licensing...in addition to a massive marketing campaign. Other than the BBQ cook off and some basic social marketing, I haven't seen any real marketing plan. Sweat equity should count for something, but not $1 million.


    As Claude said above, I doubt the show has a huge audience. I wonder if the exposure he's getting is worth $1 million? Is is possible he'll still come out ahead even if he has to fork up the entire million (let alone if he gets a $300,000 valuation for example) based on the air time alone he's gotten?

    And about being repeatable...the one thing that does look repeatable is to take a camera person with you with making deals. If it does influence people it could be that extra needed boost.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      It seems to me that the only way to create $1 million in value at this point is to have some type of franchising or licensing...in addition to a massive marketing campaign. Other than the BBQ cook off and some basic social marketing, I haven't seen any real marketing plan. Sweat equity should count for something, but not $1 million.


      As Claude said above, I doubt the show has a huge audience. I wonder if the exposure he's getting is worth $1 million? Is is possible he'll still come out ahead even if he has to fork up the entire million (let alone if he gets a $300,000 valuation for example) based on the air time alone he's gotten?

      And about being repeatable...the one thing that does look repeatable is to take a camera person with you with making deals. If it does influence people it could be that extra needed boost.
      This was a point I was making in some previous posts.. that I don't think they are taking half, let alone full advantage of the 8 hours of opportunity they were given. The website now 6 months after the fact...and at the point where people would actually be looking at it because of the 8 hours of air time blows nuts.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        This was a point I was making in some previous posts.. that I don't think they are taking half, let alone full advantage of the 8 hours of opportunity they were given. The website now 6 months after the fact...and at the point where people would actually be looking at it because of the 8 hours of air time blows nuts.
        Yeah, they were good points. I was just too lazy to dig them up to quote them.

        You'd think this would be a great time for some type of big media campaign.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
    All I know that is certain in life is Death, Taxes and that business is not worth $1M. Oh, and I have to pick-up my wife from her job in 10 minutes.
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  • Profile picture of the author misterme
    Honestly, if it were me, by Day Three of the Rib Fest I would've realized this undertaking is a lot more effort than I wanna give. I'd be looking for another million dollar idea. And I know what it would've been...

    ...Produce Rib Fests in various cities, do two a month, get 30 vendors for each show and charge them $1500 for the booth.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by misterme View Post

      Honestly, if it were me, by Day Three of the Rib Fest I would've realized this undertaking is a lot more effort than I wanna give. I'd be looking for another million dollar idea. And I know what it would've been...

      ...Produce Rib Fests in various cities, do two a month, get 30 vendors for each show and charge them $1500 for the booth.
      Generally, this is good advice. However in the context of the challenge and show, Glenn has about 10 days at this point and is required to build a business in Erie. I guess he could base the company in Erie, but not sure the town would appreciate the money spent in other cities. He's pretty much all in at this point in time.
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      • Profile picture of the author misterme
        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

        Generally, this is good advice. However in the context of the challenge and show, Glenn has about 10 days at this point and is required to build a business in Erie. I guess he could base the company in Erie, but not sure the town would appreciate the money spent in other cities. He's pretty much all in at this point in time.
        I was making a smart ass remark.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
    Have not seen the recent episode and will likely see it this evening. Does anyone know if their bbq sauce or beer was served at the fest? If the sauce was part of the award winning fest they could use that as promotional material. There is some leverage there even if it is low leverage for a start-up eatery it is better than no leverage at all.


    Course I could help them with my peanut fed possum recipe. Probably make a million in 90 days?
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Jeffery View Post

      Have not seen the recent episode and will likely see it this evening. Does anyone know if their bbq sauce or beer was served at the fest?
      I think they sold their sauce at the Fest. I don't remember beer being served.
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    • Profile picture of the author DWolfe
      Originally Posted by Jeffery View Post

      Have not seen the recent episode and will likely see it this evening. Does anyone know if their bbq sauce or beer was served at the fest? If the sauce was part of the award winning fest they could use that as promotional material..
      From what they showed he had bbq sauce on the table at the competition. They never showed if any sold of not. Their was no beer at the tables guess they would of needed a permit to sell it. Pointed out in a post above their is a promotion for bbq sauce, so maybe it ties in at the conclusion of the show.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    45 min before the show...I'll make my own valuation based simply on whether I'd pay a $million or not. At this point in time, Glenn needs to really pull a rabbit out of a hat for that to happen...
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
    Yep, most excellent. Looks like it turned out good for everyone.


    Valuation wise, unearned income is tricky at best.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    My own valuation would have been more closely to the costs of duplicating their efforts.

    Plus the intangible value of the convenience of it being already done and of winning an award for their sauce...these would have to be negotiated.

    Without knowing how much they have in inventory and equipment, I'd value the biz at $375,000-$500,000. Claude and other folks that actually own/run a retail shop...what's your appraisal?
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      Without knowing how much they have in inventory and equipment, I'd value the biz at $375,000-$500,000. Claude and other folks that actually own/run a retail shop...what's your appraisal?
      A new restaurant on day one?

      I'd price out the value of the used equipment and furniture. The day you open, your hard assets are what has value. Everything else is a dream. Try getting a loan based on anything else.

      It's hard to put a value on an income stream when there is no income stream yet.

      Remember that the other bar owner was prepared to rent out the entire business for $5,000 a month.

      Seriously, I was thinking maybe $100,000, including the equipment. That's why I am not a good prospect if you're selling a restaurant.

      After a year of sales, with profits totaling $500,000? Then it's worth a million.
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    • Profile picture of the author DWolfe
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      Without knowing how much they have in inventory and equipment, I'd value the biz at $375,000-$500,000. Claude and other folks that actually own/run a retail shop...what's your appraisal?
      Curious if PA has a liquor license law like NJ where that alone costs over a hundred grand. We know he can make 20, grand every summer. If we knew his sales on the first day you could at least get a idea what he will bring in on his best day. Besides the awards you have a custom made bbq smoker to include in the value. Some reason $475,000 came to mind.

      Did Sterns give Christine Muir any money after he let her go ? Was wondering that when the show went off last night. She walked out but she did put a lot of effort in till the time she walked off at the bbq.

      Looked up the show today and they had some live event last night in Erie to answer questions about the show. Today the had the Bearded guy ( Messenger ) on at 12 pm to do a Q&A about the show.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by DWolfe View Post

        Curious if PA has a liquor license law like NJ where that alone costs over a hundred grand. We know he can make 20, grand every summer. If we knew his sales on the first day you could at least get a idea what he will bring in on his best day. Besides the awards you have a custom made bbq smoker to include in the value. Some reason $475,000 came to mind.

        Did Sterns give Christine Muir any money after he let her go ? Was wondering that when the show went off last night. She walked out but she did put a lot of effort in till the time she walked off at the bbq.

        Looked up the show today and they had some live event last night in Erie to answer questions about the show. Today the had the Bearded guy ( Messenger ) on at 12 pm to do a Q&A about the show.
        Yep, liquor and food licenses have value as well and having them already in place saves a lot of time, money and hassles. The beer deal was worked out and should also be included as an asset.

        The hiring of staff and creating recipes and a menu are also assets with value. Having equipment for a restaurant is only part of the equation, having people and systems already in place eliminate a bunch of hassles and expenses.

        At the very end of the show Glenn quickly mentioned that he gave Christine a check for $10,000 (or was it $15,000?).
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post


          At the very end of the show Glenn quickly mentioned that he gave Christine a check for $10,000 (or was it $15,000?).
          She got ten grand.

          I honestly though he was going to give them more. Maybe $100,000 each.

          But then, when he was talking about them having a part of the business, I realized why he made their checks smaller.

          Too many people, even ones making a decent living, $100,000 all at once can be too much. They will buy a boat, a motorcycle, take a wild vacation..and then it's gone.

          He gave them maybe twice what a real employer might have given them for the extreme effort the put in...everyone but the IT guy.

          The $10,000 to the homeless shelter, and the $50,000 to the small business place was a good gesture.

          A few of these people brought drama...and I hate drama. But they sure as hell proved themselves, and came through for Stearns.
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  • Profile picture of the author umc
    I too was pleasantly surprised that the valuation was more reasonable. When the guy started talking about how he could sell franchises and all the money he could make I thought he was setting up for a ridiculous overvaluation. I thought that the show got more real as it went along. Drama is real, much more real than a lot of the fluff at the beginning.

    I wasn't surprised the one lady got fired. Her ego is in the way and she can't take criticism. You can see why she failed at her own restaurant. If she used this for growth she could learn lessons, humble herself, and truly be a great asset. She has skills and hustle but her mentality is weak.

    I liked that he found a diamond in the rough to manage the kitchen. She has a great attitude and isn't easily rattled like the lady he had to let go. She may not even be as skilled, I don't know, but the attitude can make or break it all. She talked about how hungry she was.

    I thought I'd stop watching it earlier on. It seemed too fake for me when it was just Glenn. As it evolved and people were killing themselves for him it still felt manufactured on some level. But in the end seeing everyone coming together and working at the rib fest and beyond, regardless of motivation, those were still disparate people coming together for a common cause and that's cool. I liked the way it ended much better than how it began.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Another thing Glenn must be really good at is picking good people. There were probably a number of other interviews that didn't make the cut. This is probably part talent and part experience.

    Teams can be great but finding good teammates can be difficult and bad teammates can be a total disaster. But so many teams could be created and successful if the members didn't have excuses.

    What if 4-5 writers teamed up with an SEOer, a tech guy and a IMer? There's plenty more possibilities if everyone was capable, dedicated, honest and a hard worker. And like playing an old blues song, it's simple but it isn't easy.
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  • Profile picture of the author GoodFollow
    Probably that's why this guy is a billionaire,this is how they think, they can see a possibility everywhere, they can make money from air, this is how they are thinking
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